yep
#assassination
deft locust
arctic crow
Would macroing them together work?
deft locust
I have a macro for /cast galecaller /cast exsang
weak pine
On hectic add cleave 355 dice/galecaller beat fathoms
deft locust
I am under the assumption it does
spice surge
Well why would you, as they have different cooldowns
deft locust
I have galecaller on a seperate ability button as well
weak pine
You can still use it if one is on cooldown
deft locust
just one less clutter for my lil main rotation
arctic crow
i was just saying
why wouldnt u use them together
in all situations
unless u dont wanan esang
so separate one as well
compact socket
Does gale snapshot bleeds in general?
spice surge
No, only exsang
arctic crow
no
deft locust
well JJ, I think it plays out something like
arctic crow
its a bitch to stay in that circle
deft locust
if you exsang at 7 or 8 seconds, you galecaller then
weak pine
You still use it on cd
deft locust
are you suggesting to delay your second (Or first depending on how you term it)
to get that second GC?
arctic crow
thats what i was asking
deft locust
HAH
arctic crow
i think u do
red fiber
My DPS falls dramatically after the opener.
deft locust
I won't lie
lone junco
If you have prob staying in the circle. You can bind gc before exang.
vale scroll
same shade
lone junco
It will hammer them together.
weak pine
Should I use galecaller on pull?
lone junco
I have. Vendetta GC. GC. And GC exang. And exang.
weak pine
I might be using it wrong
red fiber
I go: G - R - G - V + Gale - Mut - R - Exsang - M - M - Env - M - M - Env - M - M - Env - Vanish - G - G - Env.
junior condor
which would be easier to play in raid/m+ outlaw or assassination?
lone junco
If you hit GC on pull. And exang before 10sec. Then that's fine.
red fiber
And refresh Rupture + Garrote properly afterwards.
But I strugle to keep the numbers up.
struggle *
manic coral
sin or bust because i love this spec
lone junco
Up? They fall off until 220.
weak pine
Sin if you know how
lone junco
Then 420.
weak pine
Since you just do nothing half the time
flint swift
@junior condor depends what you mean by easier. Sin is a lower APM spec but outlaw has more viable azerite options and a broader weapon choice.
And that’s just 2 aspects of the debate
weak pine
4/5 weapon WQs are for outlaw only
flint swift
^^
weak pine
Which helps gearing
lone junco
Eu got some.
weak pine
2 325s, some 320s
lone junco
Na horde hasn't that I've seen.
deft locust
well JJ how would that line up, let me think. Exsang at 7-8 seconds, Vendetta at 4-5 seconds, Vanish at 20 seconds, so from the point of Vanish you have exactly 2 min to wait. First exsang outside of Opener lines up at around 53 seconds, which puts GC behind about... 7-10 seconds depending on how quick you are. If you waited 10 seconds (worse case scenario) for GC on that first exsang out of opener, you would then have 1:30 to wait for the next two exsang's, but only 1 min and.. 15 seconds on your vanish. So now you are holding onto vanish waiting for exsang to come back off cd.
red fiber
I'm rocking 340-370 but still have a 325 dagger >_>
red fiber
Rerolled twice on mother so far, no luck.
deft locust
So if the fight did not last longer than 3 minutes where you would normally be able to fit another exsang in, I think there's reason to say that holding that first exsang out of opener for GC might indeed be worth it @arctic crow
but I believe in the case that you'd be able to fit at least one more exsang within the time lost
you are losing dps
so you'd have to know that it's a pretty short fight
weak pine
Looks like exang is 16 dps increase for me 
Need to respec
trail urchin
whats our best pre pot?
deft locust
eyyyy Jelo
stable yarrow
mastery is my highest stat for ST monkaS
deft locust
you a haste monkey? 😮
stable yarrow
deft locust
whistles
stable yarrow
guess so
deft locust
how much haste do you have?
stable yarrow
1110
deft locust
that's pretty close to what I have
weak pine
My mastery was also over my haste earlier this week
weak pine
Went back down once I got new gear
deft locust
did nightly sim change?
stable yarrow
maybee
stable yarrow
NIGHTly
weak pine
Why am I using the web app
sudden lake
d
manic minnow
Guys when should i expect garrote trait to be nerfed 😮
weak pine
My guild got discord one with no que
deft locust
😮
weak pine
It's like 15 units of currency a month
deft locust
uh, until it does 🧀
weak pine
nvm just 10
indigo verge
what kind of dps do u guys pull in a large pack
sudden lake
Guys do u have talents for xp fast 110-120
indigo verge
(pref without pots/foods)
weak pine
20-30k
lone junco
One day. We might transition to crit mastery with the env trait or what not.
But not today.
deft locust
I'd be down for that
weak pine
@lone junco Nice dream
deft locust
TB Envenom sounds fun
weak pine
I'd still prefer 100% crit
indigo verge
what kind of rotation do you do on a large pack (and are you using exang) @weak pine
deft locust
Jelo doesn't do large packs
weak pine
gggct opener. Ruptures on high health targets.
weak pine
I sim only for ST
vapid moth
Petition to have azerite gear give secondary stats in a ring
deft locust
broke the meme yourself D:
weak pine
@indigo verge I use TB
I am not a top tier dungeon runner, only raider
Idc about doing 5% more damage on thrash
deft locust
you are assaulting my heart here
indigo verge
do u guys ever use envonnom on large packs
vapid moth
Like how nice would it be to have a choice of getting 5% mastery or 4%haste or crit to even out your stats as you wish
indigo verge
or do u rupture all first
sudden lake
When i have 4 point its better use point or use mutilate for have 5 but i have 1 over point
vapid moth
@deft locust I wasnt there for that so I have no idea
deft locust
o
vapid moth
Started game last year
deft locust
Back in mop we used to have the ability
hardy anchor
Depending on how long they survive, 3-5 CP rupture on 3 to 4 targets and then Evenom
deft locust
to take half of any second stat on any piece of gear, and make it into whatever stat we wanted
once per piece of gear
hardy anchor
It's worth dropping combo points on a mob that's about to die with a rupture to get the energy back too.
vapid moth
Oh
Well itd be nice this xpac considering azerite gear gives no secondaries
Just let us choose
vapid moth
Yeah
civic palm
We have M+ and no Hit/Expertise, reforging doesn't do much.
deft locust
when I run TB
my mastery is highest
😮
or no wait, who was the guy who said his mastery was higher
🤔
tulip wedge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
weak pine
It was @stable yarrow
deft locust
ahh
deft locust
gn!
stable yarrow
wat
deft locust
ah
you just mentioned your mastery was higher than haste earlier
I sim'd as TB and got the same
stable yarrow
but im exsang =/
zealous lily
🤔
deft locust
since we have technically seen a slow creep on mastery in terms of importance, at least that's how it feels
civic palm
aka more % per point.
deft locust
as ilvl increases
reminds me of last xpac when crit/vers was the thing, eventually turning into mastery stacking as poison build took over
zealous lily
should be able to see by just making a really high ilvl gear compare then plugging in that equipment to stat weights
terse pawn
if you fumble the exsang window it drops your dps pretty significantly
delicate gull
deft locust
lmao
I believe it's fok envenom if the pack is small, and spam ct if the pack is very large
vale mango
Is Sin supped to be fun
deft locust
in ST raids?
vale mango
I tried it coming from sub
deft locust
It's as slow as it was before
vale mango
and it just feels stupid
deft locust
it's a lot better in m+
deft locust
it's prolly an acquired taste if you came from either of the other specs
Sin is definitely the most focused on timed windows
especially in ST
vale mango
Does it need 3 SS to get going? or can I do it with 1/2?
vale mango
Ok then
terse pawn
imo sin is way more fun in raid than sub
vale mango
I have a 370 piece with ss, guess i'll try to bang out another piece
terse pawn
the rotation is way harder, at the very least
deft locust
😒
vast forum
sub single target is 🤢
calm grail
I have two different profiles for raid and party frames. How do I make it choose raid for 10+ players and party when I only have 5 people. Doesn't seem to automatically choose
deft locust
technically I'd say it takes better usage of timing and predictions, yeah
vast forum
they ruined the spec by removing DFA
unkempt karma
So stacking 3x ss is atm best
tulip wedge
how do i get mizerok WA to show combo pts not text?
terse pawn
except the dance cooldowns don't quite match up
vale mango
Guess i'll take some time and read over sin guide
terse pawn
i actually started raiding as dark shadow because enveloping was too boring
deft locust
dark shadow raiding isn't that bad, it actually takes a bit of thinking
terse pawn
but now i discovered our lord and savior, Empowered Garrote
safe matrix
its not too far behind on pure sT
civic palm
@tulip wedge You don't.
safe matrix
I think it gets better on AoE
tulip wedge
"Resource Management
Combo Points as Text or Bars (Never Load the option you do not want)"
terse pawn
might bring my sub pieces to use on zul
but otherwise sin has been more interesting and higher numbers for me
tulip wedge
i want to make them as bars but i dont think the bars WA imported
terse pawn
just need to get my exsang windows a bit cleaner around add swap stuff on like zek'voz
safe matrix
you realize you just quoted mize right back at him right?
tulip wedge
I do indeed
tulip wedge
ah ok thanks for clarification
civic palm
If you want the bars; https://wago.io/H1Q4gMW_X
You will just have to find a place for them yourself.
Embed not updated > _> wagoPlz
tulip wedge
np ill rip afenar's
brittle juniper
How are you finding deeps on ghuun? Guessing constant target switching holds us back?
violet sail
Is Exsang better for M+ than toxic blade?
polar glade
sat here reading, isnt it useless stacking SS on 3 pieces? Get 2/3 should be enough right?
lone junco
Sim.
unkempt karma
how do you sim a trait you dont have?
unkempt karma
ty
polar glade
well 2/3 SS gives you 5 combo points so no point in trying and getting 7 points
polar glade
i know the dmg increase but is that really enough?
fading spade
More than 1 ss gives more cp?
I thought it was 2 extra always, just more damage from the empowerment
deft locust
well
it's misleading bloddy
cuz the damage increase doesn't look like a lot
but it's actually massive
violet sail
Okay, whats ideal M+ talents please, not sure if the "sim" was directed at me above but simming doesnt often feel as reliable as actual advice
polar glade
ye thats what i thought but what about the CP? do they stack aswell?
deft locust
no
it doesn't actually matter tho in SS case
because you want to expend 3 SS regardless out of your stealth
so you will have 6 cp
no matter what
well*
5cp*
since your subterfuge window is so short you don't expend gcd's on anything but spreading garrote
polar glade
ye thats right so its all in for the dmg increase, thats what i thought for 😛
deft locust
yes
unkempt karma
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
deft locust
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
short pebble
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
simple meteor
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
civic palm
Note: Don't trust the sims.
deft locust
sometimes that applies honestly. If you know the APL is doing something wrong
it can cause wacky stuff
generally tho I think we've had enough troubleshooting time
where the sims are pretty solid atm
lone junco
@civic palm Trust no one.
lone junco
deft locust
lmao
lone junco
Green spaghetti tho.
warm geode
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
violet sail
Does the include garrotes cast on other targets?
polar glade
i think so
upper harbor
heya, do i fok at 5-10 targets with 3 CP and elaborate planning? should i toxic blade infight if i have pooled my engergy but have 5 CP evnenom on 5 and toxic blade after to save CP?
peak saffron
when specced into crimson tempest in m+, should I keep it up on ST boss fights?
lone junco
@violet sail yes. Don't cast garrote outside of subterfuge. Until they have all fallen off.
In cleave it is g g g Ct.
No Ct in single target.
You may spec it for m+. But just don't use it unless there are adds
terse pawn
every time i get a gear upgrade my ilevel goes down
nice gear system blizzard
dropped from 356 to flat 350 now
hollow stone
Noobe has all the answers. Why cant sin rogues use swords?
peak saffron
@lone junco thanks
junior condor
i still cant get the hang of freaking sin...
terse pawn
how will you bleed people with swords
junior condor
seems like its doing half the damage as outlaw with my gear...
hollow stone
Swords can make blood
junior condor
have 3 snake eye traits for outlaw and 2 ss for sin
terse pawn
swords are too big
hollow stone
Just step back a bit
hazy iron
Using the mutilate technique with a sword requires 200 energy :<
novel bay
hollow stone
Acceptable
terse pawn
didn't mutilate require you to be behind the target at first
short pebble
no
hollow stone
Yea. A long time ago
short pebble
wait what
lone junco
Mut is lame anyway.
terse pawn
yeah in TBC when it came out
i remember i never wanted to play mut rogue because positioning was too hard for me
short pebble
lone junco
@hollow stone I promise if garrote scaled with mh dmg we would be running 2.6 then hot swapping after the vanish round was over.
terse pawn
lmao
lone junco
But it's the same. Scales off dps.
terse pawn
yeah pre-weapon normalization had some funky shit
hunters using level 30 greens or whatever
boreal spoke
Night elf or void elf? For pve.
vast forum
nelf, cuz Shrouded suffocation works with meld
fierce ingot
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
frank shuttle
are u telling me if i cast garr on 4 different targets, ALL my garrs will be non-empowered?
it's only if i reapply garr on a target after subterfuge taht it will become non-empowered?
isnt it?
quaint sequoia
if u garrote a 4th target, all ur garrotes sucks
frank shuttle
that fucking explains A LOT
why i'm randomly doing absolute 0 damage on some packs
civic forge
ok say you are in a m+ using CT, after you open with 3 garrotes on 3 differetn targets do you rupture a target or CT
just assume 3 adds
shy mica
ct
civic forge
ty
frosty obsidian
How many ruptures should you have rolling
civic forge
yeah i knew that
frosty obsidian
Say you have 5+ mobs
red plaza
about 3
frosty obsidian
Envenom spam after?
lost horizon
CT spam, depending on # of targets
unique depot
hey all what are the situations for the last 3 aoe talents. obv poison bomb is strongest for ST but what about for mythic +
surreal rivet
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4dEqzKn81LTCGTGuKcQnuM made it to the 15k club
urban storm
3
lone junco
@frank shuttle yep. Only do 3. Then wait 18 sec.
frank shuttle
I'm asking if its worth to not rupture, and just use CT
lone junco
@frank shuttle negative. Open with Ct. tab ruptures on elites. Then you can either env or Ct early.
unique depot
so CT in mythic +?
hushed turtle
depends
fallow estuary
stone quartz
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
lone junco
Rupture is large. Basically we look at Ct hit component. Times mob count. When that is substantially better than your env value. You can spam Ct. but env buff helps with energy.
iron prism
@prisma monolith lol i just tabbed in to try to find that
lone junco
Rupture cp count depends on mob life duration. I do 2+ typ .
hushed turtle
Evenom also adds extra damage from increase poision application chance during FoK spam too yes?
which has to go into account i assume
lone junco
It's mostly the DP application for e return.
hushed turtle
for sure
lone junco
I spam Ct on non elite trash packs like snake ball.
limber wind
shrouded suffocation bug not fixed i guess?
inland path
my mate works at blizzard and said they have a patch in the pipeline for next reset
nerfs inc to the trait
):
limber wind
Literally what makes assa playable
grim mason
lmao my friend works for blizz too just confirmed tahts not true
severe niche
cuz ur friend can just leak info when he can get fired for saying that cuz nda
4Head
but you cool so
lone junco
No.
lone junco
@limber wind still 🐜
frank shuttle
as long as they dont make sub the strongest spec
grim mason
meh go back to sub
inland path
patch to bug fix the trait btw but also nerfs it
u can do a reminder for tues if u dont buy it
surreal rivet
how would fixing the bug nerf it?
grim mason
don't care enough actually
inland path
im just being a good citizen no troll
limber wind
i refuse to play sub
inland path
no the patch is to fix the traits bug, but they are also patching a nerf for it
grim mason
lmao good citizen what does warning us of a nerf do, how do we prepare mr good citizen?
lone junco
Don't care. Will swap to 1ss 2scent prob.
lone junco
May have to reclaim some azerite depending on buffs.
grim mason
I fail to see what coming in here and telling us that do?
grim mason
lol
lone junco
Small irrelevant niche.
frank shuttle
cause his opinion matters LuL
inland path
well he eluded that the nerf isnt just targetting rogues traits in particular i think it might have to do with stacking them idk
frank shuttle
1 guy says "ey, it's not that strong" and the whole blizz crew will listen
inland path
which could be a multi class thing
kindred ruin
so how do you choose between toxic blade or exsanguinate? is it something based on stats or something else?
lone junco
I wagered on dr for stacking traits like a month ago.
frank shuttle
exsanguinate just feels better to play with
inland path
its just blow back panic nerf/reworks from the AMA
lone junco
@kindred ruin whichever is higher with your gear.
frank shuttle
and burst is much higher
inland path
i would expect class traits like double dose to overtake tbh..
short scarab
atleast we got some useful traits
limber wind
Funny how they balance classes through azerite traits now
inland path
its cus of the ama 100%
lone junco
I'd really like the Mut crit one to be better.
inland path
me too noobe
lone junco
It's because of the dps imbalance.
inland path
i miss have like 65% crit chance on muti
inland path
well this deffo is hinting at something
While the generic traits are deliberately fairly straightforward, some of the spec-specific ones are indeed too passive, or interact awkwardly with spec rotations. We’ll be retiring some of those in an upcoming patch and adding better replacements to the pool. And of course we’ll be adding all-new Azerite traits on new tiers of gear from upcoming content as the expansion continues.
terse pawn
bets on how long it takes to nerf SS?
inland path
pretty sure they will phase most out at first rather than straight nerf and remove
probably starting with nerfing stacking
since everyone can swap to a diff ttrait atm
terse pawn
stacking is the only thing that makes traits interesting atm
having to use 3 different boring ones is just boring
terse pawn
i just like that they actually do something when you stack 3
it actually changes your playstyle
inland path
ion himself says in an upcoming patch, which isnt even 8.1 100%
so im guessing its sooner than we think
meta will get turned upside down again
well truth is, we dont know what they are planning to add
we might get a few interesting ones
spice surge
"again"
spice surge
Idk if it was played on mythic progress i wouldnt call it trash
inland path
it wasnt trash but it was deffo bottom of the barrel in terms of being competely overshadowed by sub during tos
even w/o ss it will still be ok
outlaw is the real poo one
cedar kelp
i still think the outlaw nerf was dumb, blade flurry/dead shot shouldve been nerfed, not overall damage
literally only reason it was in rankings was because most fights are cleave fights
terse pawn
rogues aren't allowed to be trash
potent rune
anyone have a weakaura for suberfuge garrote for multiple targets?
delicate horizon
spice surge
Although its more like, you have 3 speccs. The chance of one of them being decent is a lot higher than say, ferals
severe niche
feral is dead spec
deft locust
less defensives
terse pawn
and harder to play
visual token
Eh not really
deft locust
remember back in mop
severe niche
the cat based spec that is suppose to be based on bleeds, just doesnt do as good as stabby bleed poison class
deft locust
when feral and sub used to have apms at like 100
visual token
Yeh
spice surge
38 or something
visual token
Feral feels much slower than mut for me tbh
deft locust
honestly tho
why did they remove Assassinate execute
it seemed so fitting with the kit
inland path
wat
deft locust
uh
visual token
They made it a talent I think
inland path
did u play mop/wod neverr
visual token
But I liked back stabbing
open elbow
Hey, I have a hard time to cleave 3+ packs of mobs. Do I have to spam Crimson ? Is it ok to apply 1-2 combo Rupture on targets ?
deft locust
we got all the fun cd's of sub with all the complex mechanics of an assassin
those were the days
bronze hatch
just garrote 3 then ct and fok rupture fok rupture fok rupture
and u get 25k dps 
doesnt matter what cp u get from fok
not worth the gcd
just slam that rupture down on all
and refresh max cp ct
deft locust
wasn't that changed
in wod?
I seem to remember high cp ruptures doing more way back when
barren forge
was changed in HFC yes.
deft locust
ah ye
magic thistle
hey guys for the assassination rotation when do we use battle potions?
barren forge
i mean it was with the prepatch wasnt it? i remember flaming a friend because he didnt know that the tick is higher
hazy iron
What? Rupture was changed in legion not wod
barren forge
with the prepatch
hazy iron
Pretty sure it was changed going into tomb or antorus
open elbow
@bronze hatch Thanks ! And do I have to spend the CB after 2 apply of garotte or do I ignore overcapping it and apply a third garrote with Subterfuge buff ?
bronze hatch
apply 3
deft locust
no way
@hazy iron
that is way too late into the game
or is it..
now I can't remember
:l
fathom cosmos
How do you use Vendetta after the opener? Do you time it with vanish or use it on CD?
open elbow
@bronze hatch Ok then, thanks, that's help !
bronze hatch
@fathom cosmos if u got atleast 1 SS trait ur opener should be stealth garrote rupture garrote vendetta muti rupture exsang
hazy iron
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Rupture
Under patches / hotfixes
sand notch
When in the opening rotation does GCB go?
deft locust
just doesn't feel that long
indigo epoch
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
bronze hatch
dunno if it snaps
hazy iron
Gee we are talling about the scaling damage with cp change
fathom cosmos
@bronze hatch i think i understand opener, what about after that? should I try to line it up with anything?
barren forge
they buffed it with 7.1.5 to 150% but the initial change was with 7.1.0
fathom cosmos
@bronze hatch also thank you for the help
bronze hatch
um i usually pop vanish garrote after the exsang garrote runs out
then pop next exsang off cd
m+ fights rarely goes so long u get 2nd vendetta
barren forge
@hazy iron i know what we are talking about. you are just wrong. 7.1.5 was the buff from 25% to 150%. 7.1.0 was the change von versadmg into 25% flat for all cp
bronze hatch
but it lines almost up with 4th exsang i think
just always try to plan ahead ur bleeds like 10sec before exsang comes off cd
pool some energy or smth
thats ur heavy hitter
fathom cosmos
gotcha thanks!
hazy iron
Righto budd-o
bronze hatch
so u can get max pandemic fresh bleeds straight for exsang
sand notch
Do I hit GCB before opening garrote, or later in the opener?
sand notch
Yeah
bronze hatch
ur real dmg comes thru after u press exsang in opener
so i imagine same time with that
sand notch
Doesn't your haste only affect dots when they're applied tho?
sharp schooner
i don't think anything snapshots
sand whale
exang snapshots haste, so GC -> exang
hazy iron
@barren forge https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20457825/patch-notes-world-of-warcraft-patch-7-1-5
Youre welcome mate
sharp schooner
got a source on exsang snapshotting haste?
west frost
Dots don't snapshot outside of subterfuge and nighstalker, and tick rate when you apply exsang
Test it
sand notch
Ahh okay, ty @sand whale
west frost
Stand in gcb, exsang then walk out
subtle lodge
Why is the rotation garrote into rup garrote mut then rupture again?
hazy iron
Pandemic timing
tough whale
pandemic
hazy iron
For exang
tough whale
It's discussed in the pins : )
subtle lodge
Oh gotta look at it thanks guys
sand whale
source is in tc-research
Mystler: no, exsanguinate snapshots the haste state when you use it, the dot itself does not
west gate
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
vapid estuary
D:
Atleast I don't have that trait yet. Should I go for 3 shrouded suffocation? or maybe a different combination
west frost
Yeah got mine last night
spice frost
desert otter
I have watched some logs to see what's the difference between toxic blade/exang but I cannot take them for granted as the players have different playstyles/skills. tl;dr: Currently outlaw, want to go back to assassination. Is there a difference between the talents or they sim the same and it's only a matter of taste?
spice frost
exsang sims better with shrouded suffocation. tb easier to use
desert otter
Cheers
west frost
I find for a lot of fights exsang works better as you can apply and walk away rather than tb that needs you to stand on boss for 10 sec or waste dmg
Although having said that I was doing mythrax last night and had so much downtime I thought I might as well have not been using exsang because the dots wouldve run their course before I touched the boss again anyway
atomic jay
jagged atlas
in m+ on packs how many combo points do you use on rupture ? to quickly apply it to multiple adds
leaden belfry
@vapid estuary i pref 3ss for m+ 2ss 1laser is most optimal imo when you're raiding
civic forge
i do 2 + nean
jagged atlas
thanks man
solar fog
How do you guys handle trash as sin? do you open with 3xgarrote and then rupture main target and spam CT or should i prioritize rupture always in multiple targets?
assuming low keys, 2-8
karmic forum
Question: does it matter if you put your higher ilvl dagger in your main or offhand?
terse pawn
triple garrote > ct > fok > rupture
strange python
i hate exsang
vapid moth
@karmic forum based on sims yes
dusk spruce
!snek
prisma monolithBOT
Snake Build/What to do if you have Snake Eyes traits:
-Use standard mainhand/offhand, and Snake Eye traits.
-Rotation: Reroll RtB when out of Snake Eye buffs, dispatch (bte if RP is up or DS traits) if full combo points and Snake Eye buffs still up. Use other cds as the guide recommends, use pistol proc as usual.
-Note: With 1+ snake eyes traits reroll anything that isn't 2+ buffs once you are out of snake eyes stack and with 3 snake eye traits reroll anything that isn't a five buff. Play standard outlaw rotation for the time you have these.
This is not a substitution for reading the guide, just meant as a quick reference if you have Snake Eye traits.
karmic forum
follow up question then...Does it matter what enchant I have on my weapons as long as one is crit and one is haste? Or should a certain enchant be on MH and a certain on OH?
visual token
Enchants don’t matter in that regard. Just one haste and crit.
karmic forum
thanks
marble hemlock
the enchant with the letter that comes up first in the alphabet should go to your MH
so deadly > masterful > quick > versatile
dire spoke
<_ >
civic palm
O _O 💦
strange python
okay
Guys
Disregarding sims
How much haste feels good to you
Where is it high enough to feel good
Low haste feels bad, even if it sims well.
barren forge
i dont feel good with 15%
barren forge
yeah know that feeling
gleaming eagle
zinc frost
I prefer exsang due to it simming higher for me and works better for heavy movement fights.
hexed root
Both exsang and the elaborate planning talents are practically simming the same if not less then mp/tb for me lol
Only have 1 ss trait
wary chasm
Did they fix Shrouded Suffocation so it does stack now? Or is it still bugged and not stacking
wary chasm
Perfect
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
tough lantern
gar>rup>gar>mut>rup then exsang or vendetta next?
proven ice
gar rup gar ven mut rup esang.
vapid lagoon
can you pandemic an exsang rup or do you wait for it to drop
proven ice
drop
dire spoke
what
hexed root
So much waiting for bleeds to drop over refreshes this expac
vapid lagoon
ty
dire spoke
you never let rupture drop except it's nightstalker empowered
proven ice
loll.
trail otter
It's worth to reup the rupture even with liek 11 secs left?
vapid lagoon
well now im getting conflicting info on exsang rup
dire spoke
I think you're mistaking subterfuge for exsang
proven ice
vapid lagoon
exsang halves dot duration, doubles dot dmg no?
proven ice
yes
vapid lagoon
im not confusing subterfuge for exsang then
proven ice
Zempai is confusing legion for bfa
vapid lagoon
unfortunate
dire spoke
but exsa doesn't affect rupture empowerment wise, that's why it makes no sense to ask if we drop it or not
proven ice
It makes it tick twice as fast.
So you let it drop because overwriting it loses that effect.
compact socket
Shouldn’t vendetta be cast after mutilate in the opener? Mutilate such low DPS and I figured the first garrote tick won’t happen TIL 2nd global. Could be wrong though.
sudden canyon
proven ice
There's no point to delay vendetta
vapid lagoon
say u exsang a 10 sec rup that ticks for 100 dmg per tick, exsang makes it a 5 sec rup for 200 dmg per tick, its an empowered rup (unless im misunderstanding something)
so if pandemic doesnt carry the dmg itd be better to drop
proven ice
I think he's thinking of vanish rupture with nightstalker in legion
dire spoke
subtle lodge
would you still run master poisoner or elaborate planning with exsang build
subtle lodge
ty
proven ice
At the same time.
I don't know why order would matter
Esang actually snapshots your haste
because it modifies the ticking
and sets it
for the entire duration
dire spoke
I thought
the rest uptime you end up with is not affected by it
because if it is it makes sense to drop or not override rupture
if not then not
🤷
crisp lava
let exsang empowered garrote drop for sure, pandemic doesnt carry it over. rupture im not sure but from watching fragnance he lets both drop if exsang'd before reapplying. so thats good enough for me
rain breach
Vanish with 0 cp - ggr
vapid lagoon
do u always refresh both bleeds before exsang
dire spoke
if it's true that the full duration is affected then obviously
vapid lagoon
i mean like if u have say, 23 sec on rupture left
is it worth it to do another rup, wait for rup to tick down a little or just exsang that
crisp lava
Im not sure.. I would focus on micro managing the lengths only if you have vendetta up otherwise the exsang buffed rup that you replaced over a 23 secs one might not make sense.. ??
vapid lagoon
do u got for a full 30s rup or do u just exsang at 20s or w/e
like whats the bleed duration where its more worthwhile to just exsang compared to refreshing bleed then exsang
crisp lava
I wouldnt overwrite a 20s rup to get a 30s rup and exsang. Id just keep exsang on CD as long as you have a reasponable length on both. not sure what would be the best duration to make it worthwhile overwriting
vapid lagoon
its probably not a huge deal overall, just wondering
crisp lava
I mean the opener is based on a 3 cp rup which is 16 seconds being overwritten by an exsang one a couple second into it right.
so maybe around the 13/14 second is worth if exsang comes off CD
lone junco
@dire spoke what about uptime reduction something something?
Just got out of the live action Winnie the Pooh movie.
dire spoke
It doesn't make sense to let bleeds drop whenever exsa was used to me, I thought exsa only affects the time it reduces
rain breach
But it is what it is
lone junco
Ah. The minor exang. You take a 1sec tick time and replace it with a 2sec tick time. Losing a bit.
rain breach
If you override it, exsang is gone on it
crisp lava
exsang essentially takes your full duration and halves it and therefore the time it is ticking down thereafter is empowered.
lone junco
But the empowered SS exang is a massive 12k 25k crit at 1sec. And replace with 2k 5k 2 sec tick.
lone junco
Yeah.
dire spoke
I lost alot of damage
lone junco
Tbh the biggest reason for exang. Is to overlap the full duration SS garrote / rupture. Across a 10 sec trinket. And buff overlaps.
Remember bota.
undone verge
how the fuck do people use sin in pve
i give props to all that do it well
lone junco
6 sec. overlapping a rupture in 10 sec. instead of 6 sec of a 20 sec rupture.
That transfers to GC super haste.
dawn root
So Noobe you use GC super haste on the opener after you've got the full duration rupture and garrote going just as you use exang?
dire spoke
how could I overlook that 🤦
you use haste stuff before exsa because it snapshots it
uh, so in between applying bleeds and using exsa
lone junco
I'll talk more in a bit. Driving.
opaque junco
be safe
vapid lagoon
last question, do you delay exsa or vanish for your second go?
light kestrel
neither they align on the third
vapid lagoon
so your 2nd vendetta + vanish wont be exsa'd?
tho i guess its pretty fight length dependant anyways
upper harbor
heya, do i fok at 5-10 targets with 3 CP and elaborate planning? should i toxic blade infight if i have pooled my engergy but have 5 CP evnenom on 5 and toxic blade after to save CP?
light kestrel
Right, also my guild is killing stuff.... INCREDIBLY slowly.
spice surge
@vapid lagoon 2nd vendetta + vanish lines up with exsa
Assuming you line up vanish and vendetta
At ~2.20 all of them should be ready
opaque junco
how much better is exsa than tb? 
dire spoke
it's different for everybody
opaque junco
yeah naturally
dire spoke
@vapid lagoon sorry for the confusion btw I literally thought it works differently
opaque junco
meant as a general statement, does it need proper trinkets etc?
vapid lagoon
nw man
dire spoke
it most likely needs at least one garrote trait, could be better without in some edge cases I believe
opaque junco
got 2, getting a helm with a garrote trait is pain
lone junco
I'm 99% sure Exang didn't use to snap. It was added to haste scale partial tick rates.
hasty sonnet
3 Shrouded suf or 2 shrouded suf 1 laser?
undone verge
it just adds more dmg to garrote right?
crisp lava
and cps from it
lone junco
@dire spoke we good now? The base gain being an 18sec garrote ending in 9 sec. do you can replace with another 9 sec of normal garrote.
The major gain of overlapping a 10sec crit/agi/mastery /use trinket across the vendetta vanish SS exang.
dire spoke
that second sentence makes so sense grammar wise or?
mossy flicker
hey guys is it still worth it to buy fathoms trinket ?
hasty sonnet
I'm still trying to figure out this trait situation I'm in
true aurora
Goose? You haven’t left this forum all day!
strange python
guys on g'huun should i cloak sprint then shadowstep while running orb, or is there a better order?
spring stag
hey guys can someone explane why assa is on 1. place? does assa scale so good with i lvl or why is assa so good in m+?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/20#metric=playerscore&dataset=95&class=DPS
or is it just a bug?
reef frigate
lone junco
Well. A SS garrote is about 100k dmg over 18 sec. no vendett
If you /use a trinket for a 10 sec buff. It only overlaps 10 of 18 sec. but with exang you can fit the whole garrote in 9 sec of the 10 sec buff.
strange python
Also lets you fit more of your next Vanish+Garrote inside Vendetta
lone junco
A fully pandemic 23 sec cuts to 11 ish. And that snapshot of GC. Effectively takes the 10 sec buff and extends it for that entire garrote.
strange python
Since Exsang makes your garrote run out faster
So you vanish+garrote earlier
without Exsang your 2nd empowered garrote will fall entirely outside Vendetta
lone junco
So.no don't cut off the exang SS garrote. Else you take 0.6 sec 12k ticks. And replace with 1.8 sec 2k ticks.
dire spoke
@lone junco basically never override exsa bleeds, which is what I did because I thought the 9s going away are bursty and rest is normal
because I'm dumb as fuck
strange python
lmao
lone junco
It's ok bb
strange python
You'll understand the power of SS garrote when you garrote after getting 3 of them up on a pack
lone junco
Ggg
strange python
And you see your DPS go from like 30K to 10K
lone junco
I am going to get my sub together for Zul tho. Always been a fan of quality cheese mechanics.
lone junco
Host cleave was the only sub fight I enjoyed.
strange python
I like Sub overall tbh
It's a fun spec
Much prefer both daggerboi specs over OL but OL is still fun too
Just have dogshit 1h weapons
exotic ledge
Quick Question Guys, Exsg or Toxic Blade for Single Target ? I only got one SS Trait if this changes something
They sim with like 40 DPS diff in favor of Toxic Blade, any other reason to take Toxic over Exsg ?
lone junco
Can practice exang if you want. And prep for 3ss
wide willow
uldir is a very "bursty" raid so exsang finds a lot of utility
almost all bosses have a a big burst window
strange python
I find very limited use for TB in m+ because mobs don't last enough to have value from it
Compared to exsang on a target with rupture and SS garrote on for that thicc burst
exotic ledge
Makes a lot of sens, thank you for your helpful replys guys!
strange python
I consistently beat rogues by a comfortable margin who run TB whenever I pug m+
and there's another sin rogue in the group
strange python
depends on what class you're fighting
scenic quail
warrior
strange python
Ask #pvp tbh
disarm lul
wait ffs
not OL
<.<
I'd say the usual traits tbh
Skip the Minor Wound Poison
I'm way too tired for this shit
kind dock
Man just got a 355 SS chest from pvp but have the 370 of ghuun :x
lone junco
what trait is guun
kind dock
twist the knife or laser matrixc
dire spoke
I also gave up 340SS for 370laser
but I believe having more SS traits on m+ is better
kind dock
so SS piece for M+ def worth more ?
spice frost
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mvLauDUHZNTYJQJ7m8emGu we broke 15k bois
primal lance
Anybody know a good rogue to watch on twitch?
dire spoke
Seliathan
spice surge
So for every m+ pack, would you rather have 2k more damage per tick on all 3 ruptures, or 2k more per envenom
primal lance
Is that their channel name?
dire spoke
incarnated ... the one with cat pic
kind dock
True Eleem
spice surge
Boss fights are different as you dont get to stealth every 30 seconds or so
But SS is def king in m+
cold zodiac
What would be the best Trait for PvP?
spice surge
Maybe we'll see the queen FoK trait come to fruition if they nerf SS hard
Scent of blood
or SS if you want to kill people in the opener
dire spoke
thing is
right now with tyrann having the SS may be not optimal
you're faster with trash but boss fights may expand ... ofc it depends on the difference between your pieces
rip gearsets
safe matrix
It depends really on the level of the key
And if your buffed garrote have time to tick
Cause you wanna get value out of SS
radiant atlas
How do I optimally use Crimson Tempest in mythic+? Would the rotation be to build to 5 CP and then use it, over and over, for packs of 3+ mobs?
zinc frost
For me it depends on m + affixes and who else is in my group. But generally it's garrote x 3, rup, fok than CT. Rupture on the priority.
radiant atlas
I just switched to assassination today
haven't tried m+ yet and I'm worried I'm going to be way under my DPS as outlaw just because of experience
zinc frost
Have you got any SS traits for sin? Don't stress too much once you get the hang of it you'll love it.
radiant atlas
I have 2
Finding shoulders is a pain
I was also trying to get a 340+ dagger all week, and I had to settle for a 330 because I can't get one to drop
strange python
@supple hearth how do i do sim dps
urban storm
perform the rotation properly?
strange python
yeah thats what im asking @supple hearth
supple hearth
very carefully
sick monolith
how big is 3 SS over 2 SS pieces
civic palm
They are the same DMG increase each so long the item level of the piece is the same.
sick monolith
Been running underrot since first week never seen that chest drop . Just need for my last SS piece
radiant atlas
the pvp chest last week for conquest cap had SS for me
radiant atlas
I realized the pvp chest i'm referring to was in my weekly cache, not the conquest reward
edgy wharf
Hello guys. It is true that Assa is better at ST than Sub after nerfs?
dire gazelle
@radiant atlas - PvP Vest from conquest has it]
sick monolith
I was gonna say i only ever got the tunic from the warfront. Arena's is my last line if i dont get it next week. Or pray for it in a mythic chest.
dire gazelle
@sick monolith when you turn in the Conquest weekly you can choose Tunic or Vest
radiant atlas
well that's a bummer, because the reward is now worthless for me 😦
dire gazelle
I was in the same boat w/ seeking a chest, had rocked a 325ilvl for ages
radiant atlas
for me it's shoulder
sick monolith
@dire gazelle i havent done my weapon weekly. I should get on top of that.
radiant atlas
only dungeon shoulder with SS is freehold I think
sick monolith
gold tassle one is from Free yep
dire gazelle
@sick monolith you can do weapon and chest in the same week, just find two people and grind 3s
granite berry
How is assassination for M+? I remember seeing something about it being pretty bad compared to sub/outlaw, but I've personally never played it myself and I wouldn't want to test it when pushing chests
astral sundial
hey, when running CT and no TB - is it worth casting CT on single target? the tooltip shows a bit higher damage on CT, but doesn't account for the extra poison proc.
granite berry
Just normal FoK and dot things up?
weary sundial
is losing out on that reorigination array that big of a deal?
like i have archive trait but its the same piece as shrouded suffocation
terse pawn
man high key ring of booty is brutal
plain thistle
@astral sundial no, CT on 2+ targets
astral sundial
thanks
iron prism
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
iron prism
Question: if you have multiple pieces of reorigination array gear, does the effect multiply? Or does one piece apply the max effect
civic palm
Reorigination Array does not stack from pieces of gear.
summer yoke
severe niche
so the server first 15 is dead 😦 https://gyazo.com/992d0f8953fe08480c11af45549b0cb5
pearl steppe
I switched from MFD to Vigor and im still kinda running into energy probs
it's prob mostly just me being too spammy for a class that is more "set it and forget it"
but still
I wish there was some type of interactive way to get energy back
astral sundial
exsanguinate is not very long cd ^^
sick monolith
tol dagor is easy man you can +1 that
distant vale
On a tyrannical week, at that.
hollow flicker
sorry but can someone eli5 why exanguinate is better or comparable to toxic blade? it doesnt increase damage only dps, just better for burst dmg?
boreal spoke
Tol dagor is the hardest mythic + dungeon?
hushed pulsar
Waiting for your 700 io score druid healer to get through the beams is just the worst
rocky notch
hushed pulsar
iO sCoRe Is A gOoD mEtRiC
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
frigid mica
!wa
radiant atlas
8.9k dps at ilvl 351 in tol dagor +4 - is that decent for my first m+ as assassin?
hushed pulsar
@radiant atlas for your first sure but improve quickly
hushed pulsar
yeah, i sim around 14k single target and pull off around 12-13k
radiant atlas
I just don't know what I should be doing in packs of trash
civic palm
In M+ or?
hushed pulsar
in trash packs of 2-3 i pull 20-25k
radiant atlas
in M+
hushed pulsar
it's much bigger than a standard patchwerk sim