Ok so only 3 garrotes until they run out.
#assassination
limber lion
sullen robin
dont nerf ss, sub and outlaw so boring
limber lion
Come on Blizzard ugh
tacit plinth
Bliz nerfs outlaw and sub > sin comes out on top > blizz sees a spec is doing well > doesn't compensate other specs > nerfs sin > rogue is dead class > arms warrior still top burst aoe and great ST
ruby girder
i only started to have fun with assa today dont do it to me
untold laurel
What are you guys doing for zul opener? Is the best value to drop normal single target rotation on zul since adds die so fast or still garrote 3?
main blaze
garrote the crusher atleast
plain thistle
single target zul and cleave the other 2
fringe bloom
in how many targets should i use CT?
plain thistle
you probably wont get rank1 that way because you wont be padding on adds
sturdy sky
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
tulip willow
Is it the general idea when adds are up to pop vanish and garrot em all
plain thistle
@fringe bloom if you are spec into CT, you use CT at 2+ targets
fringe bloom
thanks
plain thistle
but if you want to know for how many targets CT is better than PB
then i dont know
fringe bloom
but in 2 targets i use rupture first?
hasty crater
isnt trinket from taloc supposed to be rly good for assa ? i sim so low with it
open wolf
what wep enchants am I looking at?
plain thistle
yes, you probably garrote both, rupture and after that CT
open wolf
mainhand/offhand
fringe bloom
ok thanks
tulip willow
Haste crit
plain thistle
just maintain CT, dont spam it ๐
winter lance
what's CT?
plain thistle
Crimson Tempest, lvl 100 talent
fringe bloom
yea ofc ๐
winter lance
oh ok ok
vapid moth
Do you ever use envenom in aoe @plain thistle
wild gyro
Exsang on with Vanish and then on CD?
limber lion
Are azerite trait sims accurate?
plain thistle
@vapid moth yes, but I do a little rupture spreading first, because im using 2x rupture trait
tender fulcrum
After the opener what is proper way to use exsanguinate? To top off both garrote and rupture then use exsang?
limber lion
I have a 340 hat with SS and a 370 hat without it and the 340 has no chance against the 370 one. I figured it would even be a bit close.
plain thistle
garrote 3 times, a couple ruptures and focus the add that needs to die first
vapid moth
But then youd still use CT instead of envenom with 4+ targets
plain thistle
yes, but you maintain CT on those targets, you dont spam it
tulip willow
Ah thanks
plain thistle
you will use envenom a couple times here and there
coral meteor
tfw you get a 370 azerite helm from cache and your 340 with ss still beats it
tempted to take the 27 dps ST loss on principle.
plain jacinth
the helmet is better in uldir
royal lantern
yeha
plain jacinth
cause of reorigination
coral meteor
Does it stack?
spring prawn
this prolly has been answered couple times already. but when using exsang... do i wanna do 2 exsang without vendatta? or delay my vendetta so it lines with 1st and 3rd?
carmine valve
is it limited on raid difficulity?
fiery sedge
Isnt the sim taking it in account?
plain jacinth
sim doesn't take into account reorigination
carmine valve
Like if I kill heroic bosses, will that carry over to mythic?
plain jacinth
yes, you just need to kill 3 bosses on any difficulty each week
limber lion
How much does the Uldir traits matter? The uldir helm that I have is 1.6% worse on sims, would it still be better in Uldir?
fiery sedge
Probably yes
plain thistle
@spring prawn you will delay vendetta to use it with vanish, and it will align with exsanguinate too(you delay it too)
spice surge
75 of your highest secondary per week you've been killing bosses
plain jacinth
add the reoriginatino bonus * your best stat wweight to dps
spice surge
So 150 this week
coral meteor
i take it making an apl that sims the trait in uldir is a bit past simcraft
plain thistle
basically a full combo every 2 minutes
plain thistle
second exsanguinate is on CD
royal lantern
the bonus goes up too 10 weeks
plain thistle
4-6-8,etc, too
spring prawn
im using the second one without vendetta right
royal lantern
so it is huge for the raid atleast
spring prawn
ye ok ty
royal lantern
for dungeons its ofc bad and you probably want a other piece on that slot
plain thistle
yeah yeah, the second one is a weak exsanguinate, without vanish and vendetta
prisma pond
When Ion does it AMA let's bombard it with "please dont nerf SS"
spice surge
It is actually neutral in sims using exsang on cd or lining it up with vanish+vendetta (after 2.20 which lines up well) @plain thistle
prisma pond
His*
tropic tulip
can you snapshot bleeds? ie should you rupture right before your vendetta ends and then wait till the last second to refresh
royal lantern
nah, they will nerf it for sure
spice surge
Because if you delay it you miss out on a lot of exsang over a longer fight
plain thistle
@spice surge really?
limber lion
My 370 helm with Sharpened Blades sims better than my 340 SS helm.
mighty summit
What conditions make exsg better than tb? I'm consistently having exsg sim a couple hundred dps lower
spice surge
It has 45 sec cd, so it lines up very poorly after a while
But in practice its probably better to line them up anyway because of mechanics
plain thistle
yeah, it doesnt align very well
royal lantern
you need high haste/crit for exsg too get better
pastel vault
lone junco
@plain thistle btw. im going to work on pushing the exang gc around. open. gc ss. exang at 9sec of GC will project that haste out 19 sec .
should be neat.
basically pushes the exang to the vanish.
mighty summit
My haste/crit are my highest; I'm at 361 equipped ilvl. I have 1 SS, and Exsg is lower than TB. If I try simming with 2 SS, TB is still better for some reason. Haven't tried with 3 SS yet because I don't have 'em. I'm assuming 3x SS traits us what makes Exsg better, but I'm not sure, so I figured I'd ask you gents.
lone junco
Im all for taking a 10 sec buff and making it 19 sec long.
tender fulcrum
@spice surge so is it best to exsang on CD or let it line up with cds?
misty light
Synch cds but that might mean delaying vend/van depending on kill time
fossil jackal
@mighty summit yes, it was only after i got 3 SS and 1000+ haste that exa started simming more
misty light
Exs sims higher for me at ~1k haste and crit w 2 SS
mighty summit
Good to know, thanks!
potent forge
@lone junco so what is the GC opener? May hav misread that
severe niche
we pumping now bois , even more upgrades https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bFJZ8nmdfnTvRYFv2HuAFG
haste bis stat again
poggers
prisma bough
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
tender fulcrum
So after exs is off CD from using it opener do I top off my bleeds then use exsanguinate or do I use it on CD no matter what?
Or just use only with CDs?
severe niche
top off bleeds
try to line it up
so that you can use as close to cd as possible
refresh at like 15+ sec if you have too
its worth
full refresh then global after exsang
if you have big brain should be able to time it every time
lime panther
Ur CDs should allow for 1 ex between van vend
severe niche
depending on the raid encounter though it might be delayed no matter waht though
unkempt gulch
feelsbad same ilvl and i sim 900 dps less
severe niche
patchwork you use on cd as close as possible and dont delay it ever for vendetta or vanish
unless your last vanish garrotes will not full tick that is the only scenario to delay on patchwork
misty light
Trinkets /weps?
lone junco
@severe niche thats big ๐
unkempt gulch
yeah i got 1 low dagger, which adds a lot
severe niche
now delaying for a raid specific add or a dps incrase pahse like mother phase 3
thats a different story
misty light
OH is probably less important than trinkets
severe niche
its all situation on exsang cd usage
hasty crater
Does any1 know why taloc trinket sims rly low ? Isnt it supposed to be really good for assasination ?
lone junco
im looking to stretch GC to 19sec from 10. hope it works out.
misty light
Low proc chance
unkempt gulch
i guess a 355 gale adds a lot
unkempt rover
Some's got strings for pawn ? i know sim is better but ingame fast number is good too ๐
lime panther
Foxy what are your stat%
hasty crater
@misty light so its actually just a bad trinket for assasination ?
severe niche
355 galecallers
lime panther
I'm close to same ilvl w 1,5k less dps but I'm switching from sub so I'm superrr mast heavy
I think I'm around 22/15/32
Need that hasteee
misty light
He prob doesn't
lime panther
Nope
misty light
Been farming for DAYS and no luck
lime panther
I'm farming 8-10 shrines for it tho
misty light
Yeah same
misty light
I've dipped down to 7
severe niche
doing a +13 atal push later
misty light
Seen some nasty shit in PUGs
lime panther
I'm typically 13.4 overall end of em
lime panther
With CT ofc I'm 357 optimized and 362 overall
misty light
Wow that's a big drop
lime panther
Yeah az pieces
lime panther
2 340s vs my 370s
misty light
Yea
strange python
@severe niche do sims take that into account? As i have a 345 gale and it sims lower than my 355 laoded dice
misty light
I'm rocking laser matrix hat cause no SS hat feels bad man
strange python
@misty light its all relative. At this stags if its a dps increase it doesnt matter. :)
strange python
You need those +10 cache hats :)
lime panther
No az in m+
lilac coral
so effing dumb
strange python
There are from caches end of week reward
wheat zealot
With my luck when i do get azerite from my +10 cache it will be garbage traits
Probably will be fok traits or something
lilac coral
also didn't know last week that it upgrades on a 4/7/10 key
ruby idol
Just do 10s 
lilac coral
regretfully, i'm shit
misty light
When I get GCB, do you delay Exs for it? Or are you using 1M GCB on its own?
potent lodge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
You can delay it for 1 exang
magic zenith
Got a 370 laser matrix from my chest. Rip 3x SS
strange python
Im presuming. Use on pull with exange delay 15 seconds on next exange should bring all cds off for vanisb
tardy spade
What are the best raid trinkets for sin?
strange python
@tardy spade none
fiery sedge
Quick question, in m+ when do you use ct ovet pb
tardy spade
Then m+?
strange python
Gale callers boon loaded dice
Check herodamage or bloodmallet
They have ilevel trinker sims
iron prism
So this might be a dumb question, but: can i macro
#showtooltip
/cast blindside
/cast mutilate
to bind both to one button and prioritize blindside over mutilate? would that try to blindside every time, and if that fails, then proceed to use mutilate?
severe niche
@fiery sedge pb on any tyranical week
fiery sedge
Alright thanks! Was confused since i saw spookie using ct in shrine
iron prism
never tried to macro two abilities with gcd together to use one or the other so i'm not sure
or for that matter can i /cast blindside ; mutilate?
tardy yoke
Dont see the guide overing this. Do you use Exasng on CD but hold it for 2nd vendetta or how do we go about this? Never used it before since it just now started simming higher
severe niche
i should make a copy paste
fiery sedge
And in these weeks then exsang will still be better right
tardy yoke
ye i realise its prolly asked a lot, so im sorry
slender hare
But does GC really snapshot? Thought everything was dynamic
severe niche
The best usage of exsanguinate is to use it on cd with pandemic bleeds, its never worth saving to line up with vendetta unless your final vanish garrote ticks will not fully go off or another type of situational factor, like a priority add or damage increase phase of a raid encounter, its all situational, but for pure patchwork you as close to on cd as possible with pandemic bleeds
civic palm
Exsanguinate Snapshots
fiery sedge
Cause i dont see the point of using tb over exsang now
slender hare
Ahhh
severe niche
exsang is just legit more damage if you are optimized more
obsidian ruin
About the SS garote bug: i assume i can overwrite non-SS garote w/ vanish ones and not fuck SS up ?
fiery sedge
Okay this helps alot, thank you
severe niche
or 6 with vanish
lilac lily
yes Levi
hasty lily
Whats a good aim for Mastery and Crit %
daring imp
100
severe niche
100% crit would be op xd
severe niche
guess its very minimal but still 1% is 1% right https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mu6tpmN2zYB5znrNaB2Xsh
200 dps loss with toxciblade for me atm
tardy yoke
So sick you sim 15,1k at 362, im 364 simming 14,2
severe niche
bruh ilvl doesnt mean shit this xpac
azerite gear is a trap with ilvl pad
since traits are worth so much
and stat optimization > ilvl
in almost all cases
fiery sedge
Yeah my 370 sims 4 damage more with uldir trait then my 340 ss
iron prism
so as someone who hasn't played assassination... can someone explain why shrouded suffocation is so good, even on ST? don't we only get a garotte from stealth every 2 minutes? what am i missing?
severe niche
not to mention neckalce lvl is a slight pad
iron prism
havent really played the spec about m0
daring imp
big dmg lunitari
obsidian ruin
@lilac lily ty
iron prism
thanks for tolerating my naivete
daring imp
normal garrote crits 2.5k
severe niche
you still garrote just on the opener you dont refresh it till its gone
because it snapshots the damage increase
daring imp
empowered + 3 ss + vendetta + elaborate planning = 21k'ish
severe niche
especially with exsang
fiery sedge
The 3ss exsang opener is dirty
daring imp
^
severe niche
true
fiery sedge
Hope they wont nerf it
daring imp
that will be difficult
fiery sedge
Its so fun to use garote like this
severe niche
but having 1 lazer matrix with 2 stack reorg array is prob better in raid atm
daring imp
they'll dump on exs again so it is forgotten if they do that
severe niche
so 2 ss 1 lazer bis for raiding as far as i can tell atm
in b4 exsang back to 80%
and toxic blade is bis again xd
anyone remeber when exsang was 150%
xd
fiery sedge
I got a 370 shoulder with archive and atm it sims higher than my 340 ss
fiery sedge
Which suprised me
tardy yoke
I guess for my sims it matters that my ilvl is not on weap and its padded super hard by 385 construct trinket cause i dont have any better
ebon bramble
if ever something like 20% reduced damage of SS
daring imp
well nerfing the trait equals nerfing overall exsang business
severe niche
wait
ebon bramble
pretty much
iron prism
ok, thanks. so basically just open with potion, vendetta, garrote, rupture, exsanguinate, then... what. repeat mutilate/envenom/rupture?
severe niche
then they nerfed to 150 i remember this now
fiery sedge
Lol
daring imp
iron prism
@daring imp Thanks
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
iron prism
Sorry, I realize I'm asking pretty stupidly basic stuff
fiery sedge
I just hope they wont gut assasination its so fun atm
patent palm
quick question for crimson tempest usage, if we're on a fight like zek'voz and there's a ton of adds up, is it best to try and garrote+rupture every single add? with like 5+ targets is it better to just garrote on cd then spam CT?
inner pulsar
I do truly apologize if this has been answered recently, but is there a way to sim out what the haste breakpoint is for you to switch to exsang? Or do you just keep checking as you acquire new gear?
inner pulsar
Right, ok, thats what I read, wanted to be sure. Thanks
daring imp
my haste values decreased when i got gc boon, but then again, other guy with more haste than me had his increased with exsang, so i got all "wtf??"
radiant fossil
Dat feel when you kill mythic taloc and you drop his trinket ๐ฅ
tardy yoke
ya thats the best trinket i have aswell, and its not very good ๐
silent scaffold
so with that bug the rotation stays the same?
stuck shuttle
the bug doesnt affect ST
dreamy wagon
The ss bug. Are we still good to get 2 garrotes off with Subterfuge talent then? And just wait till its fully run out before applying another? Or is the secobd garrote not getting Subterfuge buff
stuck shuttle
yes
severe niche
look bois the golden days of exsang ep build in early legion https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NPbYj8LXpG1ZckMv#fight=9&type=summary&source=1
good times
and its back again slammin hard as ever
daring imp
now garrote is mah best friendu
tardy yoke
i guess i should farm myself a sick GC
tardy yoke
my 340 only sims 40 dps lower than 385 taloc trinket lul
severe niche
ye its good
tardy yoke
brb setting up camp in shrine
tardy spade
How to sin rogues open so hard in pve?
I try to do the rotation and only do like 25-30k but some do like 40k
trail urchin
I find that I have very slow energy regen playing assass, is that normal?
half glen
Sin is a pooling spec. You aren't meant to just smack keys nonstop
Is your haste low, and do you have no haste type trinket?
green steppe
As an engineer, is it worth it to go Engineer goggles with Synaptic Spark Capacitor and 2x SS over 3x SS in mythic+?
daring imp
st or aoe, fox?
tardy spade
st
severe niche
@trail urchin assassiantion is a pooling spec like bamboo said sometimes you just dont press a button for 3 seconds, its not a dps loss, sin just isnt a globald class
daring imp
regular exs with 3ss, lust and a bit of luck on garrote crittering
verbal pebble
stroke inc
hasty crater
quick navigation on main weapon and deadly navigation on off weapon ?
tardy spade
Thunderblast or rezan?
severe niche
generally yes @hasty crater 
civic palm
winter fog
@severe niche does it matter? for sub I've been told it doesnt matter which weapon gets which enchant
severe niche
i dont play sub(playing sub in 2018 OMEGALUL)
but for sin doesnt matter
just have best 2
random skiff
so you only apply pandemic to your bleeds before an exang right? any other time just fit as many envenoms and replay bleeds on drop, right?
verbal pebble
pandemic is always a win situation, except on empowered bleeds/exang
severe niche
make sure you have 4~ combo points before rupture and garrote fall off
random skiff
I keep seeing people having envenom very high ion their meters
im not surewhat im doing wrong
green steppe
Is Synaptic Spark Capacitor + 2x SS better than 3x SS on mythic+?
daring imp
@random skiff not having 3x ss i guess?
then garrote would overtake it ezpz
@green steppe for assassination, very unlikely, SS is likely the best trait there is for M+ due to constant resets
severe niche
^
strange python
can anyone tell me why so many ppl play assa in high keys ?
random skiff
well they still have at least x2 SS
my breakdown is Gar>Rup>melee>enven
their is enven above rup
fading spade
I only have 1. Really hard to get ss pieces
round harbor
for m+ what talents are people running/?
round harbor
https://gyazo.com/49097725b1240625ed7d820f48a92079 im running these but with CT i can almost see Deeper strat being good
stuck shuttle
talents for M+ are 2212233
verbal pebble
for CT, what's the optimal way to use it? 3+ targets (depending on their health/time left alive)?
daring imp
@random skiff link those please? did you check envenom crit % if it swayed too off from their current crit?
round harbor
and does exsang shorten all bleeds active or just one target
stuck shuttle
@round harbor u should swap to iron wire
crisp steppe
1
daring imp
if we had way higher crit maybe deeper strat wouldn't feel shitty for trash packs ร_ร
stuck shuttle
3s extra silence
and reduced damage
not worth?
when you garrote 3x targets per pack
๐ค
stiff grail
is iron wire that good? i feel like prey is super useful on infested
blazing solstice
!trinkets
opaque grotto
Iron wire all day
spice surge
both are good
round harbor
i was talking about exsang vs tb
stuck shuttle
its useless on adds that can't be cc'd
final stone
iron wire is king in m+s!!
stuck shuttle
and bosses
final stone
like whatttt
stiff grail
iron wire doesnt debuff boss damage does it?
daring imp
both are fine, though given we always open with 3x garrotes i'm always more inclined to join the iron wire club, aaaaaand there are a few annoying caster mobs that require silence/interrupt for positioning on atal dazar/kings rest/shrine/sethralis ( at the top of my head i remember those four only )
depends on your comp and if your peeps can interrupt
i wouldn't want a boomkin using that aoe silence of his on a single mob just for it to walk 2 feet and already start casting again
royal widget
spice surge
Prob
daring imp
lul
bitter rivet
is it worth switching to would poision in 2s/3s when theres a healer?
winter fog
so due to the ss bug we shouldnt use any garrotes while a stealthed garrote is still ticking on any target?
daring imp
yep
alpine pilot
When do we want to use exsanguinate? the ravenholdt page doesnt hav a section for using it
meager abyss
do you guys think 355 frenetic corpsucle or 370 construct overcharger is better in practice? they sim about the same for me but i heard construct is ass
stuck shuttle
the page does say
alpine pilot
like rotation wise sry
stuck shuttle
the rotation is there
strange python
inc nerf
daring imp
alpine pilot
thanks
i legit cant find it, i found the opener on ravenholdt tho XD
i must be blind
rain elm
so is CT my best option for aoe dps in M+
daring imp
yea
rain elm
do i want to always CT at 5 combo points or rupture 3+ targets first?
daring imp
depends on energy drought or not
alpine pilot
so i should be refreshing garrote and rupture with 5 cp before exsang usage?
stuck shuttle
yes
green steppe
what is next best 3rd trait when you can only get 2x SS?
daring imp
it is preferable, yeah, but if you can't make the 5cp rupture, 4cp should be fine
plain thistle
@green steppe herodamage.com or bloodmallet.com or
alpine pilot
ty
stuck shuttle
@green steppe Laser Matrix
winter fog
so whats the multi target opener? SS garrotes on as many targets as possible and then rupture all targets?
dense parcel
Hey guys. If I want to play Assasination, but I have no daggers, is it a good idea to set the loot to Assa while playing Outlaw?
stuck shuttle
Optimal raid setup is 2xSS + 1 Matrix
final tusk
whats good pvp talents besides honor among thieves?
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
stuck shuttle
@dense parcel ummm idk do you think it's a good idea?
daring imp
@winter fog yea // @dense parcel well yeah unless you don't wanna drop daggers // @final tusk there's many useful depending on your comp and enemy's comp, check #pvp they might have some stuff there
iron pewter
does exsang need to be lined up with other cds or just on cd?
nothing about that in guide
daring imp
dense parcel
ok lol, ty
winter fog
@plain thistle I know, but what after the garrotes? spread rupture on all targets or just on one and get vendetta out as fast as possible?
daring imp
rupture/ct/fok spam depending on energy drought
if your first few foks don't give poison to your garroted enemies you screwed
strange python
on how many adds do i use tempest and fan ?
meager abyss
i got 385 azerite from my mythic 10 chest with ss and heed my call this week
i fucking came
plain thistle
@strange python fan 3+ and CT 2+
neon siren
is toxic blade vs exsang just personal preference?
plain thistle
no
daring imp
keep ct dot up on 2 if they'll live that long ( just use it instead of envenom once or twice to keep dot up ), fok on 3+ and i don't remember how many you just use ct instead of envenom for dumping cp on many targets but i guess 5+?
last cedar
how are you guys simming dungeon? beastlord?
meager abyss
is elaborate planning / master poisoner based on gear as well?
cause they are about even for me
meager abyss
yeah i have 1160 haste so ive been using EP
daring imp
moar haste/crit will definitely favor ep
meager abyss
at 360 im simming at like 14.4k dps is anyone similar thats around the same?
daring imp
stuck shuttle
1xSS 1xLaser Matrix 1xDouble Dose
i'd probably sim higher if I could get a nicer SS pieces
meager abyss
i got 370 chest from uldir it has ss too
stuck shuttle
need that M Fetid chest
meager abyss
too bad archive of the titans is meh
theres no way its better than ss even in uldir right?
ss is too fuckin good
mortal warren
magic zenith
archive sims better for me at 355 vs ssx3
stuck shuttle
yeah in uldir it will
and i think APL includes Array buff
unless you have 2x Uldir pieces
meager abyss
when is exsanguinate better than tb? cause it sims lower for me rn
meager abyss
hmmm
stuck shuttle
even better at 2
warm cove
would you take gutripper or unstable flames if gutripper sims like 9 higher st and unstable flames 32 higher aoe?
stuck shuttle
average M+ boss would be around 3 mins
~400 dps difference
on a 3 min fight
pretty significant
but it does depend on gear
crisp hollow
im at 14,011 with sub-focused gear and neutral traits lol god damn
26% crit, 13% haste, Double Dose+Lazer array+sharpened blades
short token
do we just exsang on CD? is there anything else to it?
spice frost
Plus exsang is more fun. We had all of legion for poisons. Let the bleeds reign.
robust light
exsang only effects the one target you apply it to right? rather than all our bleeds on multople targets
stuck shuttle
1st and 4th are to be lined up with CDs
robust light
thats how it reads to me anyway, am i wrong?
stuck shuttle
and yes only ST
spice frost
Max pandemic bleeds planned out right as exsang comes off cd
warm cove
so gutripper/unstable flames? this choce is gonna make me either do 0 or 20k dps
short token
pandemic bleeds?
spice frost
You focused on raiding or m+? Personally Iโd take a 8dps st loss for a 32 dps aoe gain cause I do a lot of keys
meager abyss
if u use a dot with 30% or less left the duration carries over to the next
warm cove
ye probably, mostly raiding but some m+
robust light
so on on aoe after spreading garrotes do i CT - Exsang or CT - fan for combo's - rupture - exsang
spice frost
Focused on raiding, st prob better cause thereโs plenty of natural cleave classes. But ultimately weโre talking about 30 dps. Itโs negligible when you factor in human error
warm cove
im a machine
crisp hollow
@stuck shuttle what pvp rating do you need for 370 pieces?
warm cove
going for gutripper
stuck shuttle
1800+
spice frost
1800 is ez. Find a disc priest and afk to 1800
spice surge
Any healer tbh, disc isnt that good
crisp hollow
the average WoW player won't clear normal
so i don't really take "most people" seriously
even though you're right
it doesn't really reflect the level of difficulty involved
winter fog
when do I use vendetta on multitarget? do I spread rupture on every target and then use vendetta or do I just rupture one target to use vendetta faster?
stuck shuttle
In M+ you can vendetta prio target
but spread rupture first
then spam fok and envenom on main target
winter fog
@stuck shuttle so delaying vendetta is fine?
dire sparrow
61k dps was maximum output on burst
stuck shuttle
@winter fog i mean it depends on situation
its not going to matter much if you delay vendetta on some M+ packs
but on bosses, it will hurt you
solid field
with using GC macro with exang, is it necessary to put /use in front of the /cast to snapshot correctly? or does it matter?
civic palm
trinkets and other +stat items need to be used first.
solid field
thanks
gentle yarrow
So stacking SS is recommended as azerite traits go?
stuck shuttle
yes
gentle yarrow
So none of the azerite traits from Uldir will be a better choice for overall dps?
winter fog
why does the opener say garrote rupture garrote vendetta instead of garrote garrote rupture vendetta? you would have a full cp rupture that way and could exsanguinate immediately
stuck shuttle
for Uldir, you want 2xSS and 1 Laser Matrix
gentle yarrow
ok thank you
thick jacinth
yeah you want the cowl of potent something
thick jacinth
and just get the azerite chest from the conquest cap
placid dawn
quersx you dont have full pandemic on rupture there
livid bronze
So should we be using Exsang on M+ or stick to TB?
placid dawn
from the opener you mut once afte vendetta get full pandemic rupture and then exsang
lusty narwhal
What traits does the conq chest have this week?
thick jacinth
exsang > tb with 2 SS traits
lusty narwhal
One is BiTS
meager abyss
so for mythic plus is crimson tempest better than poison bomb 100%?
lusty narwhal
Yeah sick
spice surge
For most dungeons yes @meager abyss
thick jacinth
BITS is one of them, the other is SS.
short token
after you exsang do u let your bleeds run out or get down to like 1 before reapplying?
thick jacinth
yes let them run down
placid dawn
let them run out yea
thick jacinth
so fully refreshing before exsang is important
flat portal
on blood mallet why would it reccomend Unstable flames over, Heed my call when crit isnt a good stat for sin?
urban storm
So the conquest reward has SS?
thick jacinth
YES
urban storm
Itโs a chest right?
thick jacinth
yes
flat portal
yewah
meager abyss
@spice surge do i use 5 stack crimson tempest than try to do small ruptures on everything? after ss garrotes
lusty narwhal
Crit is a good stat for sin wtf lol
urban storm
I hate pvp so much lol
flat portal
well shit lmfao i cant read
thick jacinth
crit is literally = haste for sin when you get around 365
lone junco
no. crit literally increases damage value, haste literally increases tick rate.
literally
urban storm
Literally?
stuck shuttle
why do you hate PvP
flat portal
thanks for the input, i cant read aparantly ๐
stuck shuttle
what's wrong with PvP
short token
after you exsang do you let your bleeds tick down as close to 0 as possible before reapplying?
urban storm
To zero
stuck shuttle
yes tick down
thick jacinth
let them drop
urban storm
Expire
short token
expire thank you
alpine pilot
exsang dots should run off completely before reapplication right?
stuck shuttle
yes
thick jacinth
you want fully pandemic'd bleeds
urban storm
Yes
thick jacinth
before you exsang
gleaming geyser
ilvl matters 
lusty narwhal
Funny how bad WoW prog sims are
short token
what does pandemic mean? like fully buffed?
lusty narwhal
Adds to the previous duration of the debuff
random skiff
30% right ?
urban storm
Yup 30
short token
oh so like not a fresh rupture / garrote, one that was refreshing a previous one
placid dawn
the % doesnt matter, just know thats its like 9 with 5cp rupture and like 7 with 4
random skiff
so when your bleeds get to about 30% of their total duration you can refresh them and itll add it to your next one
placid dawn
and like 4-5 seconds fro garrote
fallow estuary
motherlode is most free dungeon ever
short token
ok got it, didn't see "pandemic" in the guide
fallow estuary
atleast in this week
random skiff
everything is free this week tbh
urban storm
Yea
fallow estuary
ye
random skiff
get your high keys out of the way
fallow estuary
played motherlote +13 and missed 2 chest by 0.5 seconds
urban storm
What kind of dps for the run?
true thistle
@fallow estuary did 9 with pugs boralus like 10 mins qgo
true thistle
Healer so bad he cant take debuffs
fallow estuary
18k overall dps on both rogues
true thistle
Thats a lot of damage
fallow estuary
sin is just insane
true thistle
Y
random skiff
SS
true thistle
Garote free dps
urban storm
CT ?
true thistle
80 percent ss nerfed
random skiff
lmao no
lusty narwhal
Sub/outlaw still has its niche in Uldir like on Mother
true thistle
Lmao yes
lusty narwhal
Idk about 80% but could be quite likely
neon sequoia
inb4 assass nerf now
true thistle
It is far ahead compared to other traits
fallow estuary
we did mother mythic today without the cheese strat
lusty narwhal
Rogue spec traits just have nutty weights
true thistle
Same as it was with sub shadowstrike
fallow estuary
sub was really good for sending early
true thistle
Sub still is rly good
lusty narwhal
Sub is just beast on that fight because od the trip dance on last part
fallow estuary
felt bad tho
lusty narwhal
Damage increase
fallow estuary
we had to progress the boss for 1-2 hours
meanwhile all guilds in my FL just cheese the boss
broken fiber
Nerf every rog spec n then delete it from game 
heck rogue, amiright.
fallow estuary
killing her in 2 minutes x)
random skiff
80% is just a stupid number lol
lusty narwhal
Honestly idk if id be too cut if rogues got binned - id just roll warrior or mage
lusty narwhal
What percentile is that for
cerulean aspen
go play warrior
civic palm
Looks like 75%.
cerulean aspen
idk i found it on reddit idk if its even for DPS or not ๐
true thistle
Rogue is not all about dps
civic palm
Nice context ๐
cerulean aspen
Assassination is towards the top though it cant be denied
true thistle
Every class has dps
civic palm
Anyway it's 75%, the higher the percentile the "closer" we all are.
broken fiber
Bfa sub is pretty gross literally living in dance
potent forge
It doesn't even feel like a cd
broken fiber
and outside dance game feels so clunky
true thistle
Did not play sub before bfa
potent forge
I miss hellfire citadel sub
true thistle
In legion i only raided nh as sin
Then rolled to tank
But as i compare my sin exp
Sub looks more fun
main blaze
Hfc sub was nice except the multistrike rupture stuff
silk ledge
yea, i have no idea how to keep my damage up when dance is on cd
waxen cliff
Afk with no dance
true thistle
Today i pulled 16k as sub on zul if i remember right
silk ledge
bleed spec with ss trait is still the way to go right ?
bold stag
hey guys so this opener is still on point ? https://gyazo.com/f64e3acccd45ca15c3997d862b85e0b9
steel geyser
Hey guys. 2/8 MM Sub rogue main learning sin.
Do we aim for 3 SS traits for raid content?
As for Mm+, I understand CT is the way. When talented, is it worth to apply the dot before envenoming is single target? If not, how many targets?
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
pearl meteor
depends on your gear
daring imp
m+ is 3x SS, for raiding just
north terrace
I mean generally 3xSS is super good, but need to sim to make sure based on your gear ๐
daring imp
don't touch CT on single target fights
steel geyser
Thx
quartz wraith
!ct
wet yew
what talent do you guys use in m+ this week in e.g. underrot ?
pearl meteor
exsang ct
daring imp
on 2+ keep debuff up, on 5+ stop using envenom and just ct
north terrace
I always run Exs-CT in M+... makes for a really AoE setup for trash with CT but then still really strong boss damage
silk ledge
im new to this whole thing, how does on sim his character?
daring imp
the difference on 2 targets is really low tho
pearl meteor
if you have 370+ azerite from raid w/ laser toxic blade will likely become better than if you had triple ss
ebon bramble
assassination currently top spec for M+ and Heroic Raids................
daring imp
between ct/env
ebon bramble
random skiff
is ti worth to do 3cp enven to upkeep EP or the even buff
chilly obsidian
So who wants to place bets on how long until ss gets nerfed
random skiff
prob a week tbh
ebon bramble
a week?
daring imp
@chilly obsidian maybe because of m+, 'cuz on raiding there's better simming pieces out there
ebon bramble
woah too fast bro
pearl meteor
nerf ss so all specs have to use laser and tb from raid :^)
north terrace
There's not really better simming pieces in the raid... just not easy/farmable SS pieces at higher ilvl
broken fiber
Just nerf all rogue specs 
daring imp
@north terrace which equals to better simming pieces ... damn man
broken fiber
No fun allowed
north terrace
Not really lol
chilly obsidian
Yeah but like check warcraft logs there's a heavy drop after assassin rogues in m+ dps
north terrace
You are acting like SS isn't the best, but it definitely is
pearl meteor
sure its the best, but do you have all 370+ SS?
broken fiber
exsang simming higher for me
gentle belfry
I have 17% haste and it still sims lower :L
pearl meteor
3x ss?
steel geyser
It sims the same for me with 2 SS traits on a 5min fight. I need to Sim 3min
gentle belfry
yup
river quarry
i have to admit
daring imp
@north terrace "The order of factors does not change the product."
river quarry
ilv upgrades have been mega disappointing.
north terrace
@pearl meteor literally exactly what I was saying about higher ilvl pieces lol
river quarry
353 ilv to 563 ilv and ive only gone from 13.2k to 13.94k
daring imp
it is god damn rare, maybe they won't touch it because of that, maybe not
pearl meteor
im 361 and sim at 14.6
daring imp
it still will be rare with or without a nerf
broken fiber
Any1 here still with 350 daggers or just me ๐
pearl meteor
355 ye
slim solar
Yo guys, pretty new to assassination - been an outlaw pleb most of legion+BFA. been looking through the guides and stuff - i understand the opening rotation, but my DPS seems to plummet after the opener - any tips on "normal rotation" during vanish/vendetta cooldown? i feel like im missing something
chilly obsidian
Honestly 3 ss traits is some of the most fun I've had in mythics
slim solar
no point in 5cp envenom? or
chilly obsidian
Just dot 3x then afk
wet yew
why exsang in m+ exactly? like is it just better than TB on multi target? also is crimson tempest really worth with tyrannical?
slim solar
or is a 4cp envenom ok to use?
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/ https://bloodmallet.com/ https://raidbots.com
Yes, you need two daggers for Assassination. Yes, the damage component of Azerite Traits stack.
-Pandemic this term relates to reapplying buffs/debuffs. When a debuff (like garrote) is refreshed, its remaining time (up to a cap of 30% max duration, so 5.4s for garrote) will be added to the new buff.
SS = Shrouded Suffocation, G = Garrote, RUP = Rupture, CT = Crimson Tempest, PB = Poison Bomb, CP = Combo Points.
pearl meteor
is nice
chilly obsidian
Yes 4cp is fine you dont want to waste cp
broken fiber
Fraggy is playing bomb in dungeons rn confirmed better talent.
thorny steeple
is the bug with shrouded suffocation garrotte losing the extra damage if you cast garrotte on a target after subterfuge ends still there?
pearl meteor
yes
chilly obsidian
Yes
daring imp
@wet yew priority targets on higher keys are a thing, and ct works, if your tank doesn't pull too slow, definitely better than pb that would only avg ~3% overall dmg on dungeon, as ct would do 8~12 depending on your tank
pearl meteor
crimson temp
wet yew
@daring imp just doing a 8 to 10, asking for specifically for a 8 underrot right now
daring imp
lv 100 talent, crimson tempest
@wet yew that shouldn't make a difference on low keys and not fortified week, just pick whatever you're most comfortable with
wet yew
@daring imp trying ct and exsang, thanks for the good explanation
daring imp
which key is this question for, sloozy?
i only see CT getting better the higher key you do
ruby idol
There are already bosses that are 3-5 minute fights past 10. Pb is 3-5% dmg st no cost, ct is 10ish with cost and useless on bosses
chilly obsidian
You guys ever use the fan of knives talent? Haven't tried it yet myself
pearl meteor
no
ruby idol
I prefer pb this week
ruby idol
Or you're not running kr..
pearl meteor
3min maybe
chilly obsidian
Yes
mossy flicker
I mean i've only 1 garrot trait
random skiff
which wep do you want quick nav on ?
pearl meteor
exsang is better with triple SS
random skiff
or does it not matter because same speed now
civic palm
Enchant hands don't matter you're using daggers in both hands.
safe root
any of you boys running exsang with 2x ss 1 archive?
pearl meteor
havent had any raid azerite drop for me
safe root
gl m8
pearl meteor
lf haste
tranquil wave
gemhide vs Footpad tier 3 trait?
twin zealot
so, i decided to roll rogue this expac, so far im failing miserably and i cant figure out why, anybody who understands rogue a bit better than i mind taking a look at my logs? i wish for nothing but to improve.
pearl meteor
playing sin?
twin zealot
sin?
tranquil wave
assas(sin)ation
pearl meteor
assassination
twin zealot
yes:)
pearl meteor
link
pearl meteor
r u in this log u linked lol i only see 1 outlaw
warm geode
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
safe root
multiple fights @pearl meteor
pearl meteor
o ic
twin zealot
O.o i can stack garrotes?
pearl meteor
so uh
safe root
its above
pearl meteor
focus more on uptime first, check ravenholdt for opener
safe root
your taloc hc pull it looks liek you have 10 out of 14 possible toxic blade casts
pearl meteor
92% is ok on fetid but really you shouldnt have your dots drop there
safe root
think you want that used on cd
pearl meteor
yea you do
twin zealot
thought i was only supposed to use that if i could fit 2 envenoms in the window
safe root
and yea there is a fiar bit of downtime
pretty sure if you play tb you just want that used on cooldown, could be wrong though i don't play tb someone might be able to advise better
quick egret
You think we're getting nerfed next? I hope not ๐ฆ
broken fiber
No king rules forever
surreal badge
Or the others got nerfed, either way it's higher than sub and outlaw on the uldir rankings
safe root
sin wasn't touched
surreal badge
By like 5%
safe root
afaik
quick egret
Yeah that's what I thought. Hopefully they dont nerf assass by 5% as well, that's all they seem to be doing lol
safe root
outlaw took a nasty 20% deadeye hit
quick egret
I think they're gonna nerf SS
safe root
although still viable
surreal badge
quick egret
Yeah Assass is number 1 in normal and Heroic, but's 4th in Mythic raids
shell pollen
so what's the work around on this SS garrote bug? the way the pin reads are you really just not supposed to garrote again until you can vanish?
quick egret
Survival, BM, Afflock then us
Only garrote after the 3 SS buffed garrotes have died off
shell pollen
ahhh
pearl meteor
after the intial 3
severe niche
so i +1'd the 13 atal i had
shell pollen
okay that makes sense
severe niche
https://gyazo.com/5777f2f81ccaab37f0efb2d4dbd96c4c lets say the realm first 15 might be real
for my realm
quick egret
nice Foxy!
pearl meteor
gl fox
lilac lily
underrot, yikes
pearl meteor
underot is p nice with a rogue
severe niche
lmao
quick egret
I like running underrot
safe root
managed a 96%/97% parse on mother this week, i wonder how i'll do on mythic mother lol, thats gonna be a bitch
lilac lily
I hate underrot
chilly obsidian
Underrot is easy
surreal badge
Best dungeon
chilly obsidian
What's your guys least favorite?
safe root
sethralis or mother
pearl meteor
temple
surreal badge
Motherlode
pearl meteor
drops shit
quick egret
i just dont do sethralis
surreal badge
Too many detects in motherlode, too much required trash
safe root
ya really shitty
chilly obsidian
Yeah fuck seth
prisma bough
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
wheat vigil
stupid question - if you're running 3x shrouded suffocation, why wouldn't you pop vendetta pre-pull to get that first garrotte buffed up?
daring imp
dynamic increase
also you'd energy cap
if you pop a bleed and use vendetta afterwards, it will still get vendetta's damage buff
pearl meteor
nothing on sin snapshots except galecallers b4 exsang
wheat vigil
hrm. alright, that's logical. thanks
dawn dragon
should use a macro to use the trinket + exsang ?
pearl meteor
no
to vendetta is good for opener
but i mean u can if u want just makesure its dropped b4 exsang
safe root
mines seperate cause i use galecallers in specific sitatuons based on encounter
pearl meteor
but exsang is shorter cd
dawn dragon
yea right
wheat vigil
I didn't clarify - this would be assuming toxic blade
pearl meteor
u want to use galecallers with vendetta everytime which means using it w.o exsang after first
strange python
in which case do you use exsang over toxic blade?
spice surge
When it sims higher
safe root
haha damn hes not wrong
pearl meteor
close being 10-20dps lol
fallow estuary
m8
we had an underrot 14
we depleted it just because of the first boss
the first boss is INSANE
pearl meteor
so its pref
honest needle
we use agility potions for everything right ?
pearl meteor
yes that too
honest needle
or bursting ?
pearl meteor
yea we do
safe root
agi
pearl meteor
everything
honest needle
kk
strange python
no int LULZ
safe root
i persoinally perfer exsang playstyle to tb
pearl meteor
agreed.
safe root
its like a mini dps cd instead of just an additional entry in rotation
pearl meteor
energy regen is nicer as well
safe root
i loves me some good ol energy
steel rivet
at what point is reorigination array going to be better than a 3rd SS in Uldir
thick jacinth
depends on the ilvl of the piece bruh
delicate gull
theres actually a decent amount of TB in the heroic rankings, its like 60/40 exsg
pearl meteor
mhm
thick jacinth
only bc people just made the switch
if you don't have 2 or more SS traits
tb is better
delicate gull
i mean all these tb players have 2+ SS, unless you mean just recently, but these logs are like all from yesterday
urban storm
75 haste per week, right?
urban storm
so you get 1.1% more haste per week right
coral nexus
Are you guys using Poison Bomb or Crimson Tempest for M+?