when are you supposed to use it
#assassination
undone cairn
wait is that wtf im supposed to be doing
strange python
It makes your bleeds deal their full damage twice as fast
So if you exsang a garrote it'll deal its full damage in 9 secs
undone cairn
which requires a vanish
strange python
Basically makes your bleeds burst harder
Why would it require a vanish?
You can exsang a normal garrote
undone cairn
how would i get the ss proc
sinful lotus
Hey guys, what spec/talent combo would you use for Zul?
strange python
Well my idea wasn't in order
strange python
obv you'd open with the garrote, then multi garrote 2x more for subterfuge garrotes
velvet kernel
when should i be using Galecallers?
strange python
Then I dunno but I just started playing sin
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
strange python
You can line Gale with exsang
civic palm
Know the nice thing about CT?
deft raptor
@sinful lotus you should check from warcraftlogs what people are using 
civic palm
I don't have to fucking hope for it.
strange python
Hahaha
undone cairn
u right
teach me the ways of CT
cause i think im doing something critically wrong
strange python
Sure if u play +2 keys
How much does PB RNG vary DPS in %
Meanwhile boosting 10's CT completely depends on the dung
civic palm
and EX working with CT means nothing.
undone cairn
i see
strange python
all right
cunning pebble
Seen plenty of rogues use CT on 10+ keys
Flawless from Method was doing it all day yesterday
solid sluice
with exang or TB?
cunning pebble
I'm not sure on that
deft raptor
yea yliajo also uses tb
tacit plinth
And as a fan boy and a person who dislikes exsang I'll use that as proof of not using it
undone cairn
cx
echo cargo
Internal Bleeding + Exsang is juicy as fuck tho
short arch
What's your opinion of sin vs sub in higher keys (10+) after the sub nerf?
safe matrix
Ct/pb depends on the dungeon and how you pull
sinful lotus
Checked Warcraft Logs, top rogues still using TB in Uldir, isn't XSang simming better?
strange python
Sub vs. Sin depends on the dungeon for 10's
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
tacit plinth
Sims assume perfection for the most part I think tb allows for more margin of error idk
calm shell
During the sanguine week Sin perfoms much better imo. Especially in those tight room fights.
tacit plinth
Both are viable
tacit plinth
Sub also has burst for things like infested
safe matrix
It depends on the dungeon
strange python
Ermm
tacit plinth
But dot rot is king in high keys usually
strange python
SS is more burst
frank wyvern
sin is great but i really got used to those 3yd range increase from outlaw
strange python
Than sub
frank wyvern
missing it badly
unkempt pond
sub isnt as strong this week with sanguine
strange python
You said infested
undone cairn
alright well
undone cairn
im doing 16k/20k of my aoe sim dps
tacit plinth
Of the infested targets lol
undone cairn
i'll take it
desert hazel
Is crimson tempest worth keeping up on one target? Mythic plus boss for example?
sinful lotus
Would someone mind explaining to me the perks of using TB or XSang? I've been using XSang and i really enjoy the opener and the burst, but most top rogues in Uldir seem to be using TB. I also know that Xsang is only very recently simming slightly higher. Thoughts?
civic palm
Play what you want O _O
sinful lotus
Well i don't know enough about either of them to know what I want. I like them both, but don't understand the decision making behind them...
Somebody said something earlier about TB allowing for a slightly increased Margin of error?
civic palm
Correct because you don't have to think to use it.
I mean... you have to be awake and know it's off CD, but other than that.
You just press it.
sinful lotus
So why take an ability like XSang (Which seems to only be simming slightly higher) if you have to spend more time thinking about when to use it optimally?
undone cairn
because it allows for larger burst windows basically
Which is pretty much the playstyle I guess atm
desert hazel
Ghuun dps window for example
sinful lotus
Ah alright makes sense then.
undone cairn
It's up to you though
plain spruce
does shrouded suf stack?
undone cairn
The damage does
hardy sandal
The dmg does
undone cairn
Not the cp
plain spruce
not worth stacking then?
desert hazel
Oh it is
undone cairn
It is worth stacking
civic palm
desert hazel
It does all the damages
undone cairn
Huge damahes
desert hazel
Check the pins for the big though
undone cairn
Damages
undone cairn
Wait actually does heed my call stack?
desert hazel
Lol
tacit plinth
undone cairn
no
civic palm
hardy sandal
Damage wise at least I think
civic palm
You skip the first part? lol :3
Most people only read the first bit and then just... look elsewhere.
undone cairn
I read the italics
Damn I should probably throw in an overwhelming power
Haste op
hardy sandal
Unless you stand in the fire and you see your stacks vanish
hollow jungle
BUGS
-Shrouded Suffocation is currently bugged as of sept 1, If you apply 1-3 garrotes in subterfuge, and then apply another garrote outside of subterfuge, all of your garrotes lose the shrouded suffocation multiplier. The subterfuge multiplier still stays.
In reference to this....do we just not garrote after the first 3 to allow the shrouded multiplier to stick?
pulsar goblet
Yes
hollow jungle
so dungeon pull for 4 mobs...we garrote x3 out of stealth and then just chill
pulsar goblet
Yeah until the first 3 fall off
hollow jungle
alright cool
hardy sandal
So go sap that 4th mob to avoid temptation of garroting it.
hollow jungle
also, when y'all pull a ST pack. Is the opener Garrote, garrote, 5 combo rupture, TB, mutilate envenom?
tiny vapor
Ooooh sorry I misread
Garrote rupture garrote Vendetta tb
On Ravenholdt guide at least
hollow jungle
why apply a 3 cp rupture tho?
strange python
to pandemic it to max duration
tiny vapor
It's more about optimizing garrote uptime imo
hollow jungle
ah, so after TB falls off, you 5 cp rupture at pandemic refresh?
up to what 31 sec?
tiny vapor
I think so. I don't have the numbers in front of me
undone cairn
More haste plox
stone gust
Why double garrote on opener?
hollow jungle
only if you have shrouded traits
pastel vault
you get a longer fat garrote from subterfuge
oh and the extra combo points from shrouded is nice
stone gust
Okay, I’m sub current with three SS but I’m going to run the mythic zeros to get a chance for suffo gear
desert hazel
I feel like I got lucky during mythic zeros week getting all three bis traits for all three specs
stone gust
Yea I had them and got rid of when mythic pluses came out not knowing you can’t get from them so yea rip
desert hazel
You can item restore?
warm brook
Yes
warm brook
Oh mb, didnt read
stone gust
I used it on warrior and didn’t realize there was a gcd for he account...
desert hazel
Well that sucks
Cause I have a feeling assassin is going to come out the wood work come tues
hollow jungle
im sure shrouded will get nerfed
cunning pebble
I'm gonna get 3x 385 SS gear on Wednesday anyway. It's all good
spring magnet
This might be a really dumb question, but how does the combo point generator work on Fan of Knives? Im getting 1-3/4 it seems like all random. Nothing like sub 😛
desert hazel
Crits
Works off crits
That's why you are getting different amounts of cps each cast
spring magnet
Ah, all right. Thanks!
stone gust
I still need to get my ten done to get three 385s lol
calm shell
why three?
rose dove
BEcause he plans to be super lucky
bright vessel
lol
stone gust
I’m going off what @cunning pebble said lol
calm shell
i need that plan in my life 😛
rose dove
Got a 7 done yesterday... Got a russian tank who leeroyed through 3 packs all the time... An experience to say the least lol
lavish furnace
how should i sim my rogue for mythic+ ? patchwerk or hecticaddcleave ? I don't have much gear to swap 😄
pastel vault
I just do 4 target sims without lust but not completely ideal
edgy latch
are you guys playing 3x sharpened until shrouded gets fixed?
or do you play around the bug
i can imagine the bug is a bitch for when you want to multidot on fights like ghuun
calm shell
@bright vessel After having some Outlaw fun and at very edge of having wrist problem i switched to Sub but now Sin feels so relaxed 😄
bright vessel
hahah
pastel vault
what bug ronge
rose dove
@bright vessel I enjoy all the things, been outlaw thus far but considering assass since I finally got some useful daggers
bright vessel
Yea, I've played outlaw exclusively basicall
im trying out sub now, but i cant get the flow or feel for it really
is assas decent in pvp atm too?
edgy latch
"10:12] Dibz: BUGS
-Shrouded Suffocation is currently bugged as of sept 1, If you apply 1-3 garrotes in subterfuge, and then apply another garrote outside of subterfuge, all of your garrotes lose the shrouded suffocation multiplier. The subterfuge multiplier still stays."
pastel vault
yes @bright vessel
rose dove
Assass is best in pvp atm
outer yacht
will assassination be the top spec once tuning comes out tomorrow?
daring imp
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
pastel vault
well... another garrote is 12k damage while shroudedx3 gives you like 1500 damage per garrote?
daring imp
@rose dove i had one of those on a +5 today, damn the healer worked out
pastel vault
is that even worth not casting another one
daring imp
burritoj, don't ask me why, but my garrote jumps from ~2k crits to ~13k crits with 3x ss and casted from stealth*
rose dove
@daring imp Ya... With necrotic added even tho the healer was amazing there was no chance lol
prime quail
Can you do warfronts only having exalted with the fraction ?
pastel vault
the highest I get is 19kish with double garrote exsang with vendetta
daring imp
@prime quail only get world quests unlocked
daring imp
mb i meant you only need world quests unlocked to start the warfront quest so you can get the 370
prime quail
Ye and my friend told me I need to be exalted for that
And I was like that's BS
Never read about that anywhere
versed osprey
At how many targets do we fok instead of mutilate
daring imp
pretty sure 3+
hollow jungle
anything over 1
tiny vapor
Do you guys open with 3 garrotes back to back on 3+ targets ?
hollow jungle
yes
daring imp
if on m+, yea, 3 garrotes then CT
shy axle
are you priorizing the Ep buff or the Env buff? what`s more important
tiny vapor
CT over PB on fortified ?
prime quail
You mean sanguine
hollow jungle
i find CT is inferior to Rup spam anyway
tiny vapor
I'm never certain
daring imp
well with a midway not stupid tank you can get CT doing 8~12% dmg overall through the entire dg
while pb ... measly 3%
hollow jungle
pug life
daring imp
but pb for raiding is my jam tho
wicked shoal
Race changed to dark iron dwarf the other day, the racial which soaks all bleeds, magic etc and increases agility is op in pvp. Get 5/6 stacks of combo points, bust out vendetta and toxic blade, use racial = easy massive damage.
strange python
Can anyone here come in voice and explain assa arena
like teach me how to play assa in arena
long portal
Just pve everyone down :)
wicked shoal
Yeah all debuffs, it soaks them and by each soak it increases agility by an additional 200
Originally the racial increases agility by 600 plus an additional 200 with each dispelled effect
Most ability buff ive had with it is 1.8k increase in agility
daring imp
holy fuck
wicked shoal
Its way too powerfull in pvp atm its a real heavy hitter
I think it might get a nerf tbh. Doesnt lasy long so you need to time it spot on with combo points etc
Last*
daring imp
yea it might @_@"
ripe geyser
How do you play Exsang perfect? never used it b4
pine torrent
How do i get good
main rain
Use exsang on bleeds for maximum dps
prime quail
Just have your 5 cp stuff up a stealthed garrote
serene glacier
Exsang
Agonizing Poison
prime quail
Press the button and watch the meter rise
restive latch
What is usually the reasoning for using exsang? just if it sims better?
fierce ingot
If it sims better / you want better burst
Or just the satisfaction of stuff melting when you press it
restive latch
Cool, ty.
Could anyone explain why you garote > rupture > garrote on opener and double garrote off vanish with shrouded? Can you add multiple increase from shrouded by doing this or am I missing something else?
worldly furnace
Yeah it extends the duration to max, then you exang to get full duration of the buffed bleed damage
daring imp
odds are by the time you vanish the rupture is still up so ...
you can even do garrote > envenom ( if 4+ cps ) > garrote if you have enough energy when going to use vanish
strange python
Shrouded suffocation still bugged ?
left abyss
When should i be taking exsang over toxic blade?
strange python
when it sims higher and you like doing damage
desert hazel
Or when you have important burst windows, ghuun for example
wide delta
so use exsang only when i just applied rupture and garrote right?
to have max uptime as much as possible?
lyric pond
hi everyone. just wondering if engineering helm is a good substitute for not having a 3rd suffocation trait for m+?
inland path
whens this x3 garrote thing gonna get nerfed
prime quail
There nerfs/buffs came out today
The•
So there won't be anymore happening
Since mythic race starting tmr
hollow cloud
thats alrdy live
no?
sacred seal
September 11st
hollow cloud
I mean yea. but some nerfs/buffs are also revealed after it hit live
figured this one was aswell
sacred seal
They can still change it, or to add something more....very unlikely they won´t, but still
gleaming kelp
on CD iirc
bronze spindle
What happened to Assassination, seems its pulling ahead now 😮
inner pecan
Sub and Outlaw are getting nerfed on Tuesday
Sin hasn't been touched
And people are just now realizing how strong 3x SS is
bronze spindle
Has simulationcraft already updated their tables according to it?
inner pecan
yes
vestal wren
sin is not popular bc. of the content that was aviable
bronze spindle
I've always liked sin, but found pirateboi to be fun as well
vestal wren
you had only m0's for weeks, ppl where used to outlaw/sub bc. they did work well there
inner pecan
true
And now people are realizing 3x SS sin might be the best rogue spec for high m+
warm brook
Sin always scaled better later on
bronze spindle
shrouded suffocation
vestal wren
it took even top players 2 weeks or more to play sub after they fixed it (on beta)
strange python
Sadly I only have 1 SS azerite trait :(
vestal wren
and they only tried it bc. it simmed good
prime quail
Can you trade azerite items now or is it still not fixed ?
strange python
Will I still able to be good ?
bronze spindle
Sin always rose to the top, yes
inner pecan
this has nothing to do with rising to the top or scaling
it's 4 weeks into the xpac you can't talk about scaling lol
the spec is just strong
vestal wren
if sin is top its purposely set to that by the devs
bronze spindle
So, is it a mix of 3 x SS and exsang?
inner pecan
that is definitely a strong combo
vestal wren
tbh even if they did not nerf sub you would have seen quite some sin rogues on early progression
inner pecan
I mean even this week without the nerf
sin is the most popular m+ pushing spec
if you check like the 15/13/14 keys
vestal wren
it works well in higher keys
bronze spindle
oh man, will have to see it again when I get home
vestal wren
and tbh there is only 1-2 players in those high keys, so its what they prefere 😉
prime quail
It works well in lower keys too lol
bronze spindle
assa > pirateboi > sub
inner pecan
It works best if you only pull 2-5 mobs and let your rogue restealth
vestal wren
snow orchid
nice balance
vestal wren
Tb is the saver bet
bronze spindle
I should really work on this school project, ugh
vestal wren
well then work on it.
bronze spindle
easily distracted with all this stuff going on.
brittle juniper
Anyone got any tips for aoeing? Mines shockingly bad so I’m doing something wrong. (My weapons aren’t the best atm)
strange python
Do you spam CT on AoE or just once a let tick ?
prime quail
Händle it Like every other dot
severe hemlock
When it has 2s left refresh.
Iirc its 3s on 5+ targets if you have nothing else to spend on
Otherwise 2s.
strange python
And another question, if I have only 1 ss azerite trait, I should still be able to do good DPS ?
I sim 12500 dps
severe hemlock
Seems fine then.
strange python
Is it good for mythic release ?
severe hemlock
You can check bloodmallet for the ilvl weight of SS.
slender shard
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VHJtchRm6M4ygFnB/ Im trying to figure out how to improve but not really sure where to start could (I am coockiememe btw)
severe hemlock
Obviously you want high ilvl ss pieces but that’s easier said than done.
slender shard
I feel like stacking ss is so nice but it feels as if they will nerf it in some way
prime quail
Why would they it's on the same lvl as sharp blades
strange python
Affli is godlike rightnow
severe hemlock
I mean blizz can nerf more than one thing. They often do. :p
We’ll see what ends up happening.
prime quail
If ss would apply on non stealth
It would be nerfed hard
But you need stealth
Nothing happens
Nerfs are already out
prime quail
There won't be new until mythics over
lunar dragon
hey guys whats up with this double garrote in opener dont seem clear to me
prime quail
Extend duration
daring imp
@strange python been doing m+ with CT and i do it even on 2 targets to let the debuff tick 'til the end, pumping envenoms until pandemic range, and when on 3+ straight up ct if having enough ruptures up, it averages 8~12% of overall dmg on the dg* depending on tank's will to pull more than one pack at once
spice frost
Played sin all of legion, been outlaw/sub for bfa but I hate sub. How’s son energy regen in st? Thinking of going sin for the st fights.
spice frost
I think I’m outlaw gear I have like 13%, can swap some pieces and probably get 5ish% more.
lunar dragon
im at 17,59 % now it starts getting smooth with vigor and some hast proccs from traits
daring imp
@spice frost i used to, then i got 3x SS ... never looked back and the ones i run with almost always ask why my garrote hits so much
violet sonnet
I raid with all 3 specs, and it can def fall down a bit in some fights.
Sub has a lot of time to really shine in some of em
m+ though it feels like it has potential to sit on top forever
especially with the CT damage
daring imp
a tank yesterday went boralus with me and he pulled all the trash that comes with pulling the 3rd boss outside his room
strange python
@violet sonnet i hated CT. Didnt really see it shine. Does it require more beefy pulls?
daring imp
ct was 2nd damage, on all that shitstorm of trash i finished off with 31k dps
violet sonnet
Yeah you gotta have like 6+ Mobs for it to really be effective
If it's a tank idk, i usually run PB
daring imp
damn that was really nuts seeing the damage spiking and never going down
and a thousand mobs in range mean 5 cp on almost every fok
i felt like sub dishing out eviscerates
violet sonnet
yeah the ramp is amazing in that situation
latent cape
whats the best rotation for PvP?
violet sonnet
I'd like to know aswell, just tried 2's tonight to get my dagger and was having a blast with this disc priest
lean thorn
spice frost
I have 3x ss, 3x bits, and 3x ds. It’s really hard for me to decide what to play right now
next summit
I understand 2 garrot to emmidiatelly git it to full pandemig duration
3 garrots?
why 👆
daring imp
3 garrotes are meant for multi target situations
next summit
Ah k
daring imp
no reason at all to do 3 garrotes on single target
next summit
But 2 is ok ST?
daring imp
think about it like this
latent cape
does rapture reset garrote?
spice frost
Then vendetta that sweet garrote dmg
No, but you’re about to vendetta and exsang. If you rupture, then build 5 cp and rupture again you have a max duration rupture for exsang
daring imp
1 - you apply garrote at 0s subterfuge, you have 18s of empowered garrote
2 - you wait let's say 2.5s to apply 2nd garrote on subterfuge window, you had 15.5s but instead went all up to 23.4s of empowered garrote
it is worth it because of the extra time with garrote
it is a big friggin' hitter with 3ss + subterfuge and vendetta
next summit
And you still wait for buffed garotte and reupture to tick out completelly, not refreshing
spice frost
^
daring imp
well you can reapply rupture since there's nothing empowering it, but for garrote, yeah you want to refresh only AFTER it ticking out completely
spice frost
If you exsang I’m pretty sure you don’t refresh that shit warly
daring imp
oh, yeah, if exsang, you wait for them to tick out completely
latent cape
what about talents?
strange python
on packs that die fast guys
how many ruptures are you putting up
just like 1?
or 2 maybe?
you know the normal elite packs that just melt
normal*
daring imp
this week with fortified, one on every high hp mob
strange python
is there a limit to how many ruptures you should put on mobs
i heard 3 and then stop?
or do you wanna apply it to as many as possible
i just started playing sin so not sure
daring imp
i try to have as many as possible before the 3 garrotes ending so i don't get starved right off the bat, but still using CT inbetween so i keep its dot up
fathom zealot
Garrotte everthing you can, use CP to rupture, then MfD another target and rupture
lethal flame
is the ss bug still here? when u garrote after subterfuge, the previous buffed garrotes from ss lose the dmg
daring imp
@fathom zealot mfd as sin 
strange python
which 100 talent are you running
daring imp
kiddin', didn't test myself but because of energy issues i might not have a good time
strange python
i have only tried poison bomb so far
daring imp
i should run PB on pugs, and CT only with tanks i know won't wuss out and pull 2+ packs at a time
but i'm stubborn and only run CT
tribal lark
simple agate
strange python
Im simming 13k. And get jealous seeing anything above that lol
strange python
Hey guys, I don't see why the rogue who have done +15 and +16 keys use Iron Wire instead of Prey on the weak ?
tiny vapor
Silence is longer and -15% dmg done.
strange python
Does the dmg reduction work on bosses?
@strange python in higher m+ the prolonged silence drastically helps mitigation
No incoming magic damage during silence and 15% damage reduction
tiny vapor
Not on bosses but it's fortified now
strange python
Oh ok I should consider using it then, with my group we are struggling getting a +10 key
A bit less damage income might be something great
strange python
Yup I understand now, there are so much trash mobs who casts and are not interruptible and they stands in blood aoe
Can anyone share exsang/tb macro so I dont have to drag the ability to my bar every time
tiny vapor
I would but it's @ home sorry
daring imp
@strange python
#showtooltip
/cast [talent:6/3] Exsanguinate; [talent:6/2] Toxic Blade
tiny vapor
Exsanguinate and Toxic Blade
daring imp
it's decent for m+ when you have priority targets, but it sims like 40dps increase to me so not worth the trouble most of the time unless you really wanna burst down something
glacial jasper
It’s kind of a pain in the dick to play
tiny vapor
Yup
strange python
Am I the only one hating when you go in pugs and the tank continuously pull without letting you restealth ?
I tell them but they always don't care
daring imp
i always say
"pull 2 packs and let me restealth afterwards" then they proceed to pull 1 pack, we kill most of the mobs, then he pulls the other afterwards
it's like i'm talking to a brick
strange python
That's exactly that
And after they link the recount and ask why you are so low damage while 350 ilvl
mossy hazel
Even my buddy who tanks does this shit and I shout at him for it all the time. Tanks just don't have the brain power to understand it
strange python
BTW guys
Which maccro are you guys using for Tricks of the shade ? I've been trying mouse over, or Target's target cast but I don't know which one is the most convenient
novel zealot
All in one
mossy hazel
I just use a focus and focus tank at start
novel zealot
Mine is focus mouseover and has my usual tanks name in it
daring imp
#showtooltip
/cast [@lament aurorauseover,help,nodead][@tacit ruin,help,nodead][@focus,help,nodead][@tacit ruintarget,help,nodead]Tricks of the Trade
/use [nostealth]Loaded Gnomish Dice
/use [nostealth]Worn Troll Dice
/use [nostealth]Slightly-Chewed Insult Book
oh linked a few people that wasn't supposed to
strange python
Oh that's nice thanks !
lone junco
lol wot.
daring imp
wot wut
hybrid thicket
Is there macro for mark into kidney ? I tried it but didnt worked
empty elbow
What kind of macro
rose dove
Mark should be bound seperately
empty elbow
^
rose dove
or youll limit yourself severely
lone junco
He wasn't a stupid pvp macro. Just play the spec.
mossy hazel
I appreciate the Changelog being added to the guide, btw. Thanks to who ever did that
lone junco
There aren't that many buttons.
hybrid thicket
I have it seperatly but I was just wondering if it works for anyone
daring imp
maybe cast sequence?
hybrid thicket
I give it a try ty
rose dove
/cast MFD
/cast Kidney shot
daring imp
does mfd go on gcd like everything else?
rose dove
I think thatll work since MFD is not on GCD
daring imp
try it out on dummies
strange python
Wait I've just seen in the pinned message, if you put 3 SS garrote and another one out of subterfuge, you lose the bonus damages ?
rose dove
@strange python Its bugged
severe niche
whats your ilvl?
strange python
@rose dove So I should never put a 4th garrote then ?
inland knot
what you guys think is the go to specc after nerfes ?
vestal wren
assassination
inland knot
there is no specc-neutral channel here to ask 😄
so i f i ask this in every channel it will be the channels specc
mossy hazel
There's a rogue General
severe niche
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c2A9khjSsaPzgq46Uwn1Tx ma so much worse
-8.6%
inland knot
oh i see
mossy hazel
But regardless, someone in my guild just shared a screenshot of upcoming tuning saying Outlaw and Sub are getting 5% overall nerf?
rose dove
Ya they are
inland knot
someone said after nerf all 3 speccs are nearly even
mossy hazel
I mean, I'm lower ilvl than the other rogues in my heroic guild and I've been either on par or better dps then them already
And I'm not that good
quartz depot
because other two suffer from downtime a lot more than assa
strange python
@mossy hazel and sometimes people are just bad :)
mossy hazel
I really read that first as the others have downsyndrome at first...
strange python
Also Sin seems to sim slightly higher than the other 2, right?
mossy hazel
It's too early
slate jacinth
Why do we FoK as combo builder on 3+ targets rather than mutilate?
inner pecan
2
strange python
Its hard to compare specs if your playing on a higher level than other players. You could play the weakest spec and be the best player and stomp
@slate jacinth damage + combo point generation vs energy used tends to be higher
slate jacinth
I see, is it due to Seal of Fate?
magic zenith
I'm not sure it's fair to say outlaw suffers from downtime.
inner pecan
It suffers the most of the 3 specs from it
magic zenith
Oh you mean boss down time
inner pecan
yes
magic zenith
not CD or energy
severe niche
all @strange python
strange python
@inner pecan and it has the highest damage variance of every dps spec in the game due to roll
gray shuttle
!stat
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
rose dove
Sub doesnt suffer super hard from downtime due to the bursty nature, but ofc assass is better in those situations
lone junco
Unless there are mechanics that dont allow 2mim intervals.
Sub cooldown tool kit is superior by far.
inner pecan
Yep. another point to consider is sometimes fights will be better adapted to 2m CD cycles or 3m CD cycles
it just depends
for example heroic G'huun is very good for 3m cooldowns, that's about when the burn phase happens
If you have a 2minute you probably have to sit on it for a full minute
lone junco
Vectis waves at 2min.
tiny vapor
Yeah but Sin multi dotting on G'huun is amazing
tiny vapor
I bet
strange python
whats best dps during small adds on zekvoz
inner pecan
if you want to aoe pad you play outlaw but that might be the most useless shit ever
play sub/sin if you actually want to be useful to your raid
and not just mongo derp aoe
green hatch
Hello, if i have 3 targets, is it better to do : Garrot target 1 > garrot target 2 > Garrot target 3 > Rupture target 3 > Exsanguinate target 3 OR Garrot target 1 > Garrot target 2 > Garrot target 1 again > Rupture target 1 > Exsang target 1 ? On first case i have 3 targets with SS buff but in second case i have 2 targets with garrot SS but more duration on the garrot for the exsanguinate on target 1
magic zenith
Why is it padding when those adds gotta die?
inner pecan
the small adds don't really have to die
tiny vapor
I'd say it depends if you need to focus one target or not
inner pecan
you can gain massive boss damage as sub/sin off them
magic zenith
Their slow is massively annoying during the ring eyebeam overlap
inner pecan
idk sub and sin bring a unique strength to the raid that not many classes have
ie. turning aoe into ST
outlaw is just another boring mongo aoe spec like arms or DH
magic zenith
But that's outlaws whole thing.
hollow barn
Has anyone here done a +10 and Di you use CT or PB
magic zenith
Your St is your cleave
lone junco
@hollow barn Ct for big keys.
dawn merlin
@green hatch numbers wise, I believe g>g>g>rup into exsang on the last target is better
strange python
@severe niche You must have pretty good secondary stats on items
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jMfBdrEbRDn46Poxd22wrX
Here is my sim and we are only 5 ilvldiff
lone junco
In m+ we use exang very often. So that's not a bad deal. Unless you have a prio add alignment to work out.
green hatch
@dawn merlin okay i will test on dummy to be sure 👍
inner pecan
@strange python main problem is your azerite traits
prob wouldn't run exsang on pure ST with only 1 SS trait, surprised if that actually sims best for you
strange python
@inner pecan yeah they are so shitty it's insane
Let me sim with tb
Im 3/8 hm but still stucked with 340 azerite armor
tiny vapor
I want the fetid chest so bad
strange python
What can I farm to get better traits ? Mm0 ? @inner pecan
hollow barn
Doesn’t g’huun drop ss chest?
tiny vapor
Yup
inner pecan
m+ can't drop azerite armor @strange python
tiny vapor
Dunno @hollow barn
neat heart
Whats the best talents at 90/100 for M+, came over from outlaw because of pvp changes, but I'm struggling on aoe packs a bit
inner pecan
Best thing is to do Normal/Heroic and then probably spam pvp if all you need is azerite armor
@neat heart Exsang/CT
small island
so anyone know why i sim higher with 350/345 weapon than with 370/350? 20 ilvl higher mainhand and i get 500 less dps.
strange python
@Famo here is sim with TB , pretty even
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kk8dnSmL9TxJWQewzbks6i
What kind of PvP ? Arena or BG ?
dawn merlin
ikr
neat heart
Mmh, gonna try CT then, been running TB/PB all the time
lone junco
I will after Tues.
dawn merlin
I really like exsand, but syncing it after the opener is still a struggle
rose dove
@small island Is your 350 weps enchanted and your 370 not?
dawn merlin
i just run TB in raids for the braindeadness
inner pecan
@frigid lagoon read the guide brother
magic zenith
End of guide.
tiny vapor
Still too tricky m8
small island
@rose dove both are enchanted
inner pecan
go over some logs on WCL
lone junco
@tiny vapor even small keys, i would never run PB. Small keys means the tank would pull bigger and more Fok/CT. and SS has nothing to do with CT/PB synergy.
lavish furnace
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
small island
370 got 162.2 dps, 350 got 134.4
inner pecan
basically you just want a full pandemic rupture and if your vanish is up you want a full pandemic empowered garrote too
lone junco
@dawn merlin sync after open is the 2:20 mark. if you dont align proper, just run in the corner and die. cause your deeps is gone.
meh. exang on ct is nothing.
dawn merlin
@lone junco then say you have a vulnerable phase 1 minute later
lone junco
right
dawn merlin
do you delay everything? or sit still for a while after?
inner pecan
if it's 1 min later you can exsg
lone junco
your gonna want to put the vanish vendetta in the vuln phase. like ghuun.
tiny vapor
I mean I meant Exg
inner pecan
and hold vendetta/vanish
lone junco
^
tiny vapor
Not CT haha
inner pecan
If it's worth for your DPS or your raid yes
lone junco
you can fit 1 or 2 ex between vendettas.
push the alignment out some, or pull it in some.
45sec makes it wonky
inner pecan
only boss you need to really worry about it is G'huun? from what I remember
but just hold on g'huun
lone junco
mother, and fetid and ghuun
but. thats the name of the game. else play TB, but you have less burst.
dawn merlin
alright, so near that 2:20 window, what do you do? vanish>garrote>rupture>garrote>vendetta>mut>rupture>exsang? same thing as the opener but with vanish to proc stealth?
strange python
you shouldnt need the first rupture there
charred storm
anyone know how much crit i need in assassin ?
dawn merlin
ah indeed
mellow pier
The dps different from tb and exsang isnt much but exsang will do better on the fights noobe listed
But so will subtlety
dawn merlin
@lone junco cheers mate
lone junco
outlaw. "HOLD DEEPS I DONT HAVE A 5B YET"
mellow pier
Exsang should be better for taloc/vectis too
I guess
Since downtime,lines it all up
lone junco
outlaw sneaky hitting drums when they roll a 5b at 1:27
vectis timing is nice for vanish ss.
real mountain
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rigid walrus
how do i make a macro that will cast toxic blade or exanguinate depending on which is talented into and shows appropriate tooltip
lone junco
BLEED OR DIE
marble elm
#showtooltip
/cast [talent:6/2] Toxic Blade
/cast [talent:6/3] Exsanguinate
strange python
#showtooltip
/cast [talent:6/2] Toxic Blade
/cast [talent:6/3] Exsanguinate
rigid walrus
thankyou so much
lone junco
I use 2 different keybinds, cause they arent anywhere close to being the same skill rotation
rigid walrus
yeah but i just use same kb
lone junco
thats like saying you bind Kick and blind to the same key, and have a range check.
you just dont use TB and Exang the same way.
strange python
you can have both kick and blind
lone junco
but if you get 100s. do what you do.
strange python
the reasoning to having the same bind is
lone junco
muscle memory is most important to me.
strange python
theres literally no use for the 2nd bind
since you cant press it without having the talent
lone junco
i have naga. so binds are free
rigid walrus
^
rigid walrus
same
strange python
is having mount on binds special
lone junco
wut. I have mount and repair mount bound.
rigid walrus
mount repair mount aquatic mount transmog mount
rigid walrus
click mutilate
marble elm
imagine not binding pet battle bandages
mellow pier
Do u have healthstone and healing pot bound?
lone junco
zempai clicks all the thing.
mellow pier
Atleast
worldly seal
I do
calm grail
Anyone here used the Laser Matrix trait in m+ yet?
rigid walrus
yeah
lone junco
I do have potion/Healthstone macrod together
rose dove
Real men bind their food buffs
lone junco
feel leet there.
mellow pier
Not together
marble elm
yea thats a pretty bad idea
rigid walrus
whats the go with exang simming higher than tb
lone junco
nah. if you dont have a potion it will use the other.
real mountain
TB over SS?
lone junco
wait can you use a hs and a potion in the same fight?
marble elm
You can use both
mellow pier
Ya
mellow pier
Lifesaver
real mountain
which is better tb or ss
mellow pier
I love how everyine thinks feint still has no cd
lone junco
melee that die are rank "Floor Tank"
mellow pier
"Why didnt u feint spam"
lone junco
work 🚪
strange python
poison bomb or CT in m+
inner pecan
CT
fallow walrus
hmm guys, is proper opening Garrote, Rupture, Garrote then pop cooldowns like Vendetta poison etc. (I got the Garrote 3 points trait)
delicate root
its in the guide
calm grail
I miss feint spam.
marble hemlock
@strange python if youre pulling 4+ mobs consistently, go CT, otherwise PB/HB are better
or if shit just dies too fast
CT also isnt really worth
strange python
Can someone help me seeing what I could do to improve by watching my logs real quick ?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HY7XA2KzgxwbmrQT/
I'm Wiskz btw
marble hemlock
atal, kingsrest, motherlode, temple and siege are dungeons where CT isnt as valuable due to the mob-pack size youre pulling and/or the hp the trash has
tiny vapor
The best way is to test both and kinda check the feel of PB and CT in M+
marble hemlock
yup
in a good CT dungeon it should be >10% of your damage
in a bad dungeon like temple itll usually only amount to 5-7%
at which point you could just go for bomb, which is ~3% but better for singletarget and makes the rotation on trash a bit smoother because you dont have to weave in CT
strange python
Sorry for noob q, what CT means?
marble hemlock
crimson tempest
strange python
Crimson tempest
wild charm
how much is the set bonus for venom garb worth dps wise ?
severe hemlock
i'm watching ashine, and a lot of the time he uses like 2-3CP envenoms to prolong EP during his exsang, is this correct?
strange python
I do the same. I like it
I find ep during exang especially on oponer and during vanish exangs its a gain
marble hemlock
ditto
tiny vapor
Dunno, do bleeds and poison synergize ?
marble hemlock
bossfights in dungeons are fairly short right now, so maximizing the output during your opener/CDs carries a lot of the dps of the entire fight
its the same for any trash opener while 3 garrotes are ticking, you kinda want 100% EP uptime during that window
mellow pier
@strange python i think it depends on ur group and key level
Ive had good results with both
opal zinc
0
molten flicker
O
daring imp
@strange python can definitely push garrote/rupture close to 100%uptime on fetid, just leave the add a bit early or refresh before leaving fetid for add
severe niche
or have your tanks drag boss too the add 🤔
daring imp
oh you can't trust those lazy fuckas
daring cave
is it worth running CT in raid?
daring imp
maaaaaaaaaybe on zul but i still feel like nope
daring imp
^
noble dove
In what situations do you let your dots fall off when running exsang?
royal lantern
you never want your dots too fall off? except there is no other choice cus you have orb duty or something
wooden island
is exang better then toxic blade atm?
noble dove
noble dove
run out as in during pandemic window or completely off
orchid cove
completely
cunning pebble
Completly off
strange python
@noble dove i let them run off completely with exange
Its not hard to have cps ready to refresh the moment the last tick goes off
Garrote always ends first so refresh that. Then ensure you have enough cps for rupture as that expires
No point losing a buffed tick
royal lantern
yeha, sorry understood the question wrong, with exsang you want too let them do the last tick and re-apply both again ofc
noble dove
i feel like this should be in the guide lol
daring imp
someone that knows deep into weakauras can answer me a question regarding triggering chat messages when i cast a skill?
quaint sequoia
did sin get stealth nerfed? doing half the dmg I did yesterday
daring imp
do you have your poisons on?
jade geyser
Wait for rez sickness to fall off
mossy hazel
Lol...
daring imp
repair gear
tiny vapor
Are you applying another garotte out of subterfuge buff before they end ?
hushed turtle
Do you have outlaw weapons on
nocturne cradle
are you logged in?
cedar anchor
when one has crimson tempest for 5mans ,do i use it on st too ? didnt see it in the guide mentioned
mossy hazel
If you're doing half your damage without being logged in I'd actually still be pretty impressed
royal lantern
ignore CT in st situations
cedar anchor
aw okey, even when you wanna pop exsanguine?
dusky fulcrum
Im testing waters with both sub and sin, is the suffocation trait still bugged and if so is it still worth stacking 3 of them?
wheat zealot
Absolutely
dusky fulcrum
aight, cheers
reef ginkgo
hows it bugged?
opaque grotto
For the guy talking about fetid, you can legit just tunnel the boss and ignore the blobs
mossy hazel
The bug rigth now is that casting 3 SS garrotes works fine, they're all empowered correctly
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
mossy hazel
If you cast a 4th garrote (which you can do with the CDs) none of them are empowered
So just don't do the 4th garrote right now
Ugh, those commands weren't working the other day. Lol
winter gale
Nerf on reset for Sub and Outlaw?
winter gale
Is it as big as they say?
faint vault
I'm confused. You want to empower your garrotes with 3 garrotes and then cast a 4th outside of subterfuge? wouldn't that ruin the other previous dots?
winter gale
5% overall for Sub and 10% overall on Outlaw plus 20% nerf on Outlaw best trait?
Or I missread something
winter gale
Will that make us better than atleast Outlaw?
mossy hazel
The 4th garrote shouldn't have any bearing on the previous garrotes, but right now it removes the empowered damage of the previous 3
faint vault
According to sims yes.
winter gale
Nice nice
faint vault
So the 4th garrote should be used after Garrote expires right?
And you don't have Vanish obviously.
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T22_Raid.html @winter gale
winter gale
Im doing really good with assa even now and I am pulling 11.5/12.5k dps with 342ilvl
mossy hazel
Well you would have vanish for your 4th garrote, because you're supposed to hold it FOR that garrote refresh, I think
faint vault
Yeah, but I said if I didn't have vanish.
winter gale
But my teammate is geared outlaw and he is doing 13.5 to 14k dps.
mossy hazel
Oh, sorry, misread that
royal lantern
5% nerfs is not the world, just puts both in line with other dps classes
icy temple
Guys what is stat priority. Every site says haste>crit but looking at rankings every top assa rogue is stacking crit with enchants and gems
royal lantern
wait,i mean ded class
winter gale
Assassinaton with Exsanguinate?
faint vault
Yup
winter gale
Is that going to be the way?
faint vault
That's what I'm going with.
royal lantern
deepens on the situation, TB and exs are both viable right now
winter gale
Im doing just toxic blade-poison bomb
hushed turtle
Didnt sin also get a 5%
mossy hazel
I prefer TB honestly, and I haven't seen Ex sim higher for me yet
hushed turtle
i thought it was 5% blanket rogue nerf
winter gale
No 5% for sin
mossy hazel
Not seeing 5% for sin either
olive shore
which is nuts
royal lantern
you CAN get higher burst with exsanguinate, TB is more for overall dmg, exs is for burst with the right stats
olive shore
currently i had to switch to sin due to traits
and i am pulling even more dps than before in high m+ and raid
hushed turtle
Oh shit, original post was just 5% all rogues
dusky fulcrum
My sin spec sims 400 dps higher than my outlaw spec, and my outlaw has 355/350 maces while my sin has 345/340 daggers
(with nightly)
hushed turtle
Good thing I got daggers from HC
dusky fulcrum
I guess outlaw is dead lul
royal lantern
maybe your gear was bad for sub/outlaw? outlaw was good because of that stupid snek build anyway
hushed turtle
Outlaw nerf isnt that bad
dusky fulcrum
i lost over 1k dps
olive shore
i think it was fine but it had high haste values already, which were helpful for going sin
royal lantern
because sin is more ST focused, outlaw has good aoe burst windows and the st dps can be higher or lower cus of rolls
dusky fulcrum
i'd say 1 k dps loss is big
hushed turtle
snek was just brain deda
daring cave
Anyone here using exang?
nocturne cradle
me
opaque grotto
Like 16% without food buff
ornate aspen
14♿
opaque grotto
Haste is stronger than agility according to my sims, too
royal lantern
18%, im fast as fuck boi
opaque grotto
Fast as fuck BOIIIII
opaque grotto
Are you sure that’s not weapon dmg
olive shore
agi should always be > haste
opaque grotto
Nobody’s agil is weighted at 7, I promise
ornate aspen
Weapon damage is way higher. Ill have to rerun them to double check, this is from memory im at work
winter gale
Yes
ornate aspen
But I know its higher
opaque grotto
royal lantern
its mainweapon dps>mainstat>everything else for almost all melee dps
opaque grotto
Look at THAT
ornate aspen
Ill be damned
mental lava
Dear Rogues, sincerely - I need GOOD weak aurat... most of what i find on Wago.io is mediocre at best and lacks... please if you can and are willing to help it will be appreciated AF!
meager knoll
do you have literally 0 haste?
opaque grotto
No, I have 16% haste
mental lava
for assassination**
mossy hazel
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
ornate aspen
Lokkek is good, requires some personalization
Also go checkout infexiousgaming on youtube, he has a great ui
mental lava
yeah, he does, but i think he wants money for his wa's
winter gale
If I go exsanguinate is it the only talent that needs to be changed or I need to swap some other aswell?
Bois?
Anyone?
ornate aspen
Should be
tiny vapor
Infexious has a great UI ? It doesn't look pretty but it works I guess
royal lantern
well, use EP and not master poisoner
mossy hazel
I mean, you can make your own if you're going to be that picky. Lol
tiny vapor
True that
winter gale
Im using toxic blade build and its EP already
opaque grotto
Only thing you change for ST is exsang/TB
mossy hazel
I use the last one. It's pretty solid.
brisk forge
Mp isnt tjat bad at all tho
wheat zealot
Its a loss
brisk forge
That*
opaque grotto
You can just not min/max EP and it will still be better
somber wyvern
will i regret respeccing to sin from outlaw for pve? 😃
tiny vapor
No
opaque grotto
That is entirely your opinion
wheat zealot
No, i play all 3 specs and enjoy them all
tiny vapor
Except if you like spammy gameplay
somber wyvern
okey good ! thank you
mental lava
I'm not THAT picky, assassination weakauras quality in legion was much better
opaque grotto
Should be the same?
mental lava
you make your own
opaque grotto
Just remove kingsbane
wheat zealot
Nou
mental lava
Jinglepoof you think it will be ok?
opaque grotto
Also it’s kinda weird being so picky but not be willing to make your own
crude cradle
Super simple and clean and compact
