not sure but on mythic+ environment where you have consistent resets i really think SS is the best
#assassination
daring imp
vernal sinew
and if its better exa wioch rotation i have to do
signal bone
893>845 xd
thick jacinth
the higher you go though
you don't get resets
bc mobs will get widdled down
not bursted down
vernal sinew
@signal bone i know the dps is less, but i never play with exa
signal bone
practice then
vernal sinew
so i dont know what i s bettter TB or EXA
signal bone
i mean its such a small difference
sullen robin
Exa isnt wven that different
thick jacinth
literally the same
sullen robin
You just garrote rupt garrote mut ven exs
thick jacinth
just refresh dots
vernal sinew
ill try ty, and cd of exa is 45 sec, than 24 of Tb, the rotation is not have difference? muti muti env, muti muti env refresh buff , exa?
sullen robin
You just wait for nex exs window to do full rotation again
Except you do garr garr full rupture exs on vanish
daring imp
@thick jacinth well on extremely big pulls you should also have vanish up to spread to other 3 targets ideally
i've been doing 30~40k burst dmg on the 3 packs at the start of freehold
that lasts until the mobs die, given the tanks don't pull shit on sanguine all day
sullen robin
M+ is a big difference depends on what key level
thick jacinth
yeah I guess
vernal sinew
ok ty so much guy ill try this.
daring imp
yeah i was talking about the rupture trait simming higher for 4+ targets
daring imp
for m+ environment i really don't think that's the case
daring imp
if your other deeps on group are shitty, ok you may have a point
but if everyone is "equally decent" atleast ...
sullen robin
I only play with guildies so I never have shitters jaha
daring imp
damn my guild has a lot of shitters
sullen robin
Rip ongbak
daring imp
😦
daring imp
well it's a bad week for stupidly big pulls too
sullen robin
Feelsgoodman
daring imp
sanguine/necrotic aren't that cool
sullen robin
Yeah no it sucks
daring imp
let's get some volcanic and we gucci
daring imp
then teeming/bursting happens LUL 🐢
sullen robin
Teeming wont be too bad but bursting is monkas
daring imp
yea
sullen robin
The sub discord is funny asf, people showing there sims at like 13.8k
Forget that their dps is dropping 1k+ with new patch
royal lantern
let people jerk
sullen robin
I just think it's funny they are trying to show off
Than I sim them with the nightly
royal lantern
we will get a hit with the SS nerf that will come some day too
sullen robin
And they get mad
Oh yeah
But by than well be in mythic gear with traits that outweigh ss
Heroic azerite helm from fetid sims higher than with 3x ss
Feelsgood
opaque grotto
are the sub/outlaw rerollers still flooding the channel?
jaunty lotus
Yup
dusky sparrow
yes
opaque grotto
lmfao
royal lantern
i think you want the lazor trait for the reorigination
and not archive
so you would still use SS on the fetid azerite piece
acoustic flame
supple compass
with 2 double dose traits, in a 2-3 target situation is it ever worth mut-ing over fok
sullen robin
Fetid doesnt have ss
strange python
tb or exsang for m+?
lament nexus
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
sullen robin
Oof yes it does im an idiot
I meant vectis azerote piece
0 IQ btw
@strange python depends on key level and how much tank pulls
strange python
i mean is exsg better for st burst than tb?
sullen robin
@strange python for burst yes, but Tb can be better depending on your stats
@strange python but exs is generally better for burst yeah
strange python
Ok ty
sullen robin
CT for higher keys though
supple compass
with 2 double dose traits, in a 2-3 target situation is it ever worth mut-ing over fok
sudden canyon
is [Galecallers Boon] used on CD?
or lined up with something
thick jacinth
vengeance
bold steppe
Vendetta
thick jacinth
bold steppe
zzz
earnest hedge
when the guide says garote twice after vanish does it mean garote>rupture>garote again?
earnest hedge
what's the benefit, sure i'm missing something
bold steppe
Longer duration
sudden canyon
longer durration also gets you up to full cp
with trait
also dont spam them
try and get the 2nd off
before subterfuge ends
somber wyvern
does gear matter in arena now?
low nymph
!Guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
daring imp
very little i guess
somber wyvern
cause i just played with my friend. he had 70k hp and enemy mage had 115 xD
daring cave
i know this is a pvp related question but is MP good for PvP?
somber wyvern
he was a mage also
zealous lily
quick exsang question
on reapplications of exsang should i just go ahead and clip my garrote and rupture to make sure it's fresh before i apply exsang
bold steppe
Yes
zealous lily
thank you for the quick answer
bold steppe
But you should also time your refreshes so you don't have to
sullen robin
You dont want to reapply exsang without empowered garr
zealous lily
so wait for exsang to line up? should i delay my vanish unlike the ravenholdt guide?
stable pine
How’s sin with the sub nerf comin?
bold steppe
No, you can make sure you refresh before exsang comes up by garrotting and rupturing at the right time and CP level
So on a typical trash pull you garrotte 1, garrotte 2, garrotte 3, rupture 3, exsang
And on a boss you use just use garrotte -> rupture -> exsang when it comes back up
You don't hold Vanish because then it isn't up with Vendetta at 2min
zealous lily
I mean if say i play exsang on mythrax in a raid encounter
so i can't reliably generate empowered garrotes except with vanish
violet spear
what are u guys running in M+ 1210012?
zealous lily
i haven't really played exsang before it just sims a little better so i'm trying it out in dungeons planning to try it on some fights instead of sub this week
fading hearth
did not see it in pins, what are the three traits we are stacking?
daring imp
CT on m+ is great if your tank isn't a wuss pulling pack by pack
definitely better than PB
@violet spear
been trying exsang too but managed overall better runs with tb
zealous lily
exang can do soooo much damage when everything lines up
but outside of that it's hard to use
vs TB which is pretty braindead
exsang seems like it has potential on g'huun to sorta pad a lot when he takes his extra 400% damage
and all your cds can be pooled to line up for him during beam it'd do a gazillion damage to him
same thing with fetid devourer and mother
daring imp
i just have a hard time timing stuff alright after the 2nd use
i might be better suited to braindead talents lul
feelsbad using exs on non empowered garrotes
zealous lily
same I think I'd have to practice more mental math to get exsang to line up right every time or just practice on dummy to get a sequence that works every time
bold steppe
I mean, the value of exsang is that it isn't useless on priority targets
It's fine to just use TB if there are none
fading hearth
tfw you dont have a single good trait for sin on your gear or daggers
royal lantern
farm those m+ for daggers
bold steppe
I still don't have a headpiece with a good trait 💦
grim mason
who want to farm Tol M+ w/ meh for daggers!!!?
swift pelican
Guys, is it worth it to go for shrouded suffocation 3/3? Should I? I know the damage is good but practically I benefit from half the trait.
daring imp
might have easier time running freehold
swift pelican
Can anyone help?
daring imp
@swift pelican worth it 100%
if you ever go 3/3 ss and test it out on m+ you'll never go back
grim mason
yes its worth it
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
swift pelican
well, I will not get 3+3 combo points. Like bot says, it goes 3 + 1
Dafuq did I type? It goes 3 cps. Not 6cps / cast.
bold steppe
It doesn't matter
You cap points anyway
You're using it for the extra garrotte damage because it's crazy
swift pelican
Alright, thank's guys!
true aurora
Hello! When would I use Vevdetta? Would I use it after I apply garrote and rupture day for a st boss fight, or would I use it before I start my rotation?
shut viper
How much haste should i aim for as sin?
true aurora
Thanks!
twilit owl
Quick Navigation on Both Weapons is Still the best right?
grim mason
nah
wasn ever th e best diminishinng
lol ***was never the best Diminishing return
quick/Deadly nav
twilit owl
ty
calm marsh
hey guys one question.. how does your opener look like for m+ trash? let´s say 6-7 mobs? so 3x garrote is clear.. what next? crimson for the dot? rupture for energy regen? envenom for psn apply %?
devout moth
Would love to know aswell
honest needle
on opener with 3 adds do i put garrote on all 3 right away even if i overcap on combo points, because with 3 targets it would give over 5 combo points
sinful lotus
Not sure, but saw an experienced member post earlier about this. He/she said to 3x Gar on mobs then immediately CT then FoK Rup
winter belfry
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
calm marsh
and ignore the psn application rate from envenom?
delicate root
I mean... its pretty simple when you think about it
if there's lots of mobs around you, you want to apply the most damage as fast as possible
as mobs die, CT becomes less efficient
calm marsh
that doesn´t answer my question
that´s just a stupid comment
do i skip envenom buff? do i rupture perma and keep up ct? or are 3-4 ruptures fine?
honest needle
what u mean ct ?
spice surge
Because the question is vague there is no clear answer. It depends on how long the mobs live
delicate root
well my comments are stupid so... 😅
calm marsh
do i try to keep up env buff while applying rupture to as many as possible? or don´t i give a fuck about the env buff?
why is it vague? i said 6-7 mobs.. so do i wanna go for 7 ruptures? or do i mix envenoms? because of low crit currently there´s no way to keep up 7 ruptures, CT and envenom buff all at the same time
spice surge
Because if the mobs live long enough for a full rupture is important to know
If they do you rupture, if they dont you envenom, as the guide says
calm marsh
that again doesn´t my answer the question if i want to envenom for the envenom buff
i´m not asking if i´ll do more dmg iwth env or rupture
i´m asking if the BUFF from ENVENOM is important or not
energy regen from rupture > or < env buff... if yes, up to how many ruptures?
delicate root
😅
calm marsh
@mellow pier yes i know.. that´s why i´m posting it here and not in /2
mellow pier
theres no real answer tho is my point
calm marsh
and what i get is a "think about it, it´s pretty clear" answer ... like.. wtf?
alright, that´s an answer i can live with.. thx 😃
mellow pier
like idk what pack youre fighting
spice surge
there is no clear answer
mellow pier
Idk what your comp is
spice surge
"think about it its pretty clear" 🤔
obtuse garnet
sth changed in the nightly build? simming lower
spice surge
Shouldnt be any.
Does anybody know how i get more than 9.8k iterations on my stat sims on raidbots? I change iterations to anything and it always does 9.8k 🤔
amber trench
sims usually try to reach a certain error %, for current sin that % is usually reached around 10k iterations
spice surge
9k iteration gives too much error % though. For stat weights atleast, even raidbots tells me This report used a low setting for iterations. Results may be shaky.
But i cant edit the number of iterations so 🤷
I guess i'll have to live in 2015 and dl simc myself
supple compass
are people still taking pb in m+ , or has ct finally taken over
unborn barn
I think CT has been the thing for quite some time now..
supple compass
oh really lol, guess im behind
rancid oxide
why is the link in the pins and description taking me to a blank page?
unborn barn
The link must be not working xD
rancid oxide
ive tried it in chrome firefox and edge
unborn barn
it works for me, if you mean the ravenholdt.net guides
prime cosmos
what are we stacking for pvp stats?
prime cosmos
ty
strange python
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
violet sonnet
in general.
if you apply 4 garrotes to a target the buff falls off
to 4 targets*
spice surge
Thats incorrect, if you apply a non-stealth garrote the buff falls off
You can garrote 6 targets if you vanish
violet sonnet
That was in better detail yes
strange python
ok tyvm 😃 makes sense
any WA to scream at me not to apply a garrote while SS empowered garrote is out?
or do i need to use my brain 😦
frigid dune
Quick question, Deadly on MH and Quick on OH? Or is it vice versa?
craggy tendon
hmm, if I'm about to cast a 5 CP rupture onto a previous 4CP rupture is it the 5CP or 4CP pandemic that applies here?
sullen robin
@frigid dune doesnt matter really
@frigid dune just sim to make sure those two chants are you bis
strange python
@craggy tendon i'd like to know too. i see many guides stating it doesn't matter between 4-5 cp for enven and rup. when refreshing rup with 4 cp, does it deal less damage or is just the duration that's effected?
green hatch
Just the duration
ocean nebula
yeah just the duration, they changed it in legion if im right. even 1 cp rup does same dmg as 5 cp
rotund raft
whats main secondary stats for assa?
void pecan
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
rotund raft
ty ❤
frigid dune
Thanks @sullen robin
silk sundial
I'm sure it's been asked before, but if you are in a multi target situation and all of the targets have garrote/rupture applied, do you use CT in place of envenom or do you only use it once until the bleed duration needs to be refreshed?
royal lantern
on 2 targerst you only refresh, on 3+ you spamm it and keep garrote/rupture up
calm barn
mfw a rogue doesn't want a 355 dagger I just looted because he want a titanforged one, having a 340 equipped
civic palm
o _o'
wispy portal
do you refresh rupture outside of pandemic when you have exsanguinate coming up?
or just wait for pandemic and then cast it
edgy trellis
Why cant I garrote when I vanish sometimes ?
civic palm
on CD
drifting cloud
because its still on cd?
civic palm
or no NRG.
edgy trellis
no
dawn rock
GCD locked?
civic palm
If you have the energy, and it's not on CD, it's on you.
edgy trellis
sometimes i cast vendette and vanish together but cant hit garotte even when its available
calm barn
pretty strange
edgy trellis
Oh okay ... So i have to cast vendetta before vanish
hexed jasper
do u use cimsone tempest on st
civic palm
no CT on ST
edgy trellis
did you do bg or arenas ?
spice surge
Arenas, gear caps at 360 this week though
spice surge
360 dagger warforge
meager knoll
just random from arena?
spice surge
Ye
meager knoll
rating?
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
meager knoll
you're probably poo
civic palm
ooo
deft hemlock
Quick question. How many stacks on sharpened blades before throwing blade?
Guide doesnt say
strange python
29-30
deft hemlock
Thank you
daring imp
never trust slow/afraid tanks
dusky pebble
maybe i am lul
daring imp
every pull healer was almost full mana
why press the brakes, force him to drink you wuss
civic palm
Could be doods first time.
daring imp
😦
strange python
have any of you tried the forsen build for sin
daring imp
forsen?
dawn merlin
it does
daring imp
pretty sure main hand damage is way more deeps than on off fhand
switch, relog and sim again
add -s at the end
to see stat weights
dusky pebble
alright
dawn merlin
i have to say, I really dislike our lvl 100 talents
I mean, CT is ok, but the fact that is useless in ST... meh
sub still gets to use sectec in ST, doesn't feel like a total waste
royal lantern
ye, 100 is pretty lackluster
you have PB wich is......not really that good for aoe and around 3-5%for st, hidden blades wich is somewhat ussules and ct
supple compass
how do you open on packs with ct
garrote x3 then ct into normal rotation?
and do you spam it or just keep it up
civic palm
G G G CT FOK RUP FOK RUP FOK RUP
2 targets maintain CT, 3+ spam CT while maintaining RUP and G
crimson swift
how the fuck did this guy get a 57k burstspike with tb and w/o bl?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zcgyvVW6kJptrZxP#fight=22&type=damage-done&source=155
strange python
thats insane
strange python
beats me
strange python
yeah
ocean nebula
did assa got any nerf or why i feel my dmg is worse then like 2 days before?
crimson swift
this log is really funny, half of the group just died from defensive beams + defense grid
strange python
i had my raid leader put me in the last group for mother hc
civic palm
fuuuuck yeah
crimson swift
same
quick ice
hoary totem
at what point should I stop sacrificing ilvls for 3x SS
because I just got a 370 azerite piece and its starting to feel bad man
crimson swift
idk, but you could sim it
bu t 370 is most likely much better st, while 3xSS could still be better for m+
coral willow
after exsang, do i wait for dots to expire or do i refresh at normal time?
magic zenith
Let them fall
undone cairn
im supposed to only apply 2 garrotes to the main target after vanishing right
cause i think ive been doing 3
lul
civic palm
3 is useless on ST
ripe yew
Hold up, you sin noobs can put garrote more than once on a target?
hoary totem
uhh yeah?
civic palm
TnT is trolling do not mind him.
hoary totem
go play with your pistol laddie
ripe yew
I will!
supple compass
do you guys only take CT above 5s
or do you always take it for m+ now
amber quail
civic palm
If you are not doing very high keys and you tank is pulling without CC just take CT.
spring prawn
is there a crit "cap" for sin?
or like a specific breakpoint i should reach before stacking mastery
civic palm
safe idol
can I use oh sword for sin spec keep dagger as mh?
cerulean walrus
Lol bois I called it, Sub Outlaw getting nerfs, sin untouched
plush bronze
Speaking of, is Sin capable of competing for the top spot on ST?
sullen robin
yes
plush bronze
Is it decent for m+? Thinking I'm gonna switch over from my enh shaman.
civic palm
frigid mica
I am tempted to try the Exsang build / rotation but TB seems to be giving me decent numbers....want to try it but just need to practice . Oh and just to QQ, H Mother drops the BiS 370 Dagger and the other BETTER geared rogue got it... https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qeHidq7fK4kWqW7LftLT2H
potent forge
if you take CT, do you use it on ST at all like just to keep up the dot
lofty sand
Dont use it on ST
frigid mica
CT is 3+ mobs afaik
civic palm
Maintain on 2, spam on 3+.
lethal swan
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
real mountain
Was looking at assas rotations in Ravenholdt.net. Why do you rupture at 4 cp?
opaque grotto
Because if you have 4 cp and press mutilate
You waste a combo point
Also the dmg per CP is normalized so it’s not a damage loss anyways
real mountain
Thanks
lethal swan
what dungeons do we spam for weapon
urban storm
mythic? any with a dagger lol
lethal swan
not sure which ones
vocal ferry
Tol dagor
urban storm
got 370 helm tonight, but no shrouded suff trait
frozen karma
Is it worth switching to exsang for like 50dps, is the changed rotation worth it?
onyx falcon
i hate my rogue friend ... Mother 370 and A Tall Dinosaur 360
vocal ferry
I using hand weapon in offhand ok or dmg loss?
jaunty lotus
One hander in offhand means you cant mutilate
vocal ferry
Oh, i dont get a fucking second dagger
languid stump
On aoe, do we open with 3x Garrote > CT > Keep rupture on 3 targets?
jaunty lotus
Offhand wdps isn't too high iirc
golden mulch
how good is landois trinket for mythic+?
is it much better than emblem of zandalar or better said is it worth buying?
warm void
Not worth imo
orchid field
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
undone cairn
Do you guys run CT on Zul?
rain breach
u run CT mostly everywhere lulz+
real mountain
even in pvp?
real mountain
Pb or Ct for exang build (pvp)
rain breach
ST = PB 😉
bright vessel
safe idol
So Assinassination going to be popular spec this Tuesday huh?
Since sub and OL getting nerf
rain breach
no
cerulean walrus
^
prime cosmos
it is?
rain breach
but now you can rly play what ya like
safe idol
So sin is going to be popular since it so easy to play, right?
safe idol
None any spec for me tho
safe idol
I was main spec OL and Sub in legion
safe idol
and I did 2m dps as Sub out dps Sin Rogues in legion lol
vagrant tapir
From the 340 azerite caches?
rain breach
legion is over
wild lagoon
@vagrant tapir im pretty sure WQ reward 340 azerite gear when youu have helm shoulders chest 340 yourself already
prime cosmos
legion sub was beast when everything lined up
vagrant tapir
Ah kk
And i assume
Honorbound Outrider's Shoulderguards
came from warfronts today
Just got triple SS
😄
wild lagoon
or since the whole of last week from rares etc
vagrant tapir
Stack all leather group
Only invite people who will trade you the azerite gear
???
Profit
wild lagoon
👍
hoary totem
does garrote and rupture snapshot or does it adjust damage with buffs
hoary totem
good stuff
wild lagoon
the spam lol
cobalt marsh
hey guys, does shrouded suffocation stack?
lofty sand
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
lofty sand
cobalt marsh
sorry :P
violet sonnet
I need that chestpiece of fetid heroic
civic palm
Yes.
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
strange python
Gar rupt gar ven mut rupt exsang
same if you don't run exsang?
🤔
Havent looked into TB opener
Cos its just flat out worse
Just check the APL
civic palm
You could read the guide
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
It's in there.
lofty sand
getting hit by oblivion sphere mid vendetta is infuriating
civic palm
lol
lofty sand
TB is reliable
vagrant tapir
seems like all this exang hype is coming from people looking at simc
which doesnt list tb
lol
atm
but top parses are all TB
smoky prism
you can sim yourself with different talents
strange python
Do you even understand why there is no TB?
smoky prism
there is a point where exang sims higher
vagrant tapir
There is
smoky prism
sim yourself and see which talent is better
strange python
Yes because its worse
vagrant tapir
...
strange python
4head
lofty sand
Some people have good logs with Exsang, its not a bad talent. But TB is good, easy to use damage.
vagrant tapir
"Yes because its worse"
smoky prism
so if Tb sims higher for you then use it
exang jiust sims higher for other people, it depends on your gear
lofty sand
Both TB and Exsang are fine, TB is just overrall more reliable. Exsang depends on a lot of factors to work well
strange python
🤔
rigid pewter
how is sin compared to outlaw some person told me sin is really good
strange python
OL is bad.
rigid pewter
lol ive just been dealing with the nerfs
frail gate
so bad outlaw needed a nerf but assassin didn't 🤔
strange python
You either play sin or sub
lofty sand
you dont need to ask for opinions my dude, the logs are already out
see for yourself how the specs are doing currently
versed mica
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
versed mica
Will this ever be fixed
strange python
No
lofty sand
I'm pretty sure they won't fix it until they decide how much they will nerf SS
fringe wyvern
sup yall this is probably a stupid question, but I believe there's no such thing as stupid questions, just stupid people. Anyways, i guess the best weapon enchants are deadly navigation & quick navigation for the crit and haste buffs, but does it make any difference which enchant is on the main hand or offhand? like is it better to have crit on main hand over haste? dumb question probably but thanks lol
limpid willow
hey i main outlaw but i got a pair of daggers from PVP and unlucky drops
sin seems to be just straight up better for ST and so to facilitate that im looking at how to play sin myself for ST fights in uldir (hi anthrax boss)
one thing im asbolutely confused about is.. whats with shrouded suffocation? its tool tip mentions it does an additional 511 damage which i am assuming is buffed by subterfuge but even then that only brings it up to garrote doing 1k more damage once every 2 minutes from vanish
are the 2 combo points THAT valuable? whats going on here?
fringe wyvern
thank you lol I was trying to find that information everywhere, I didn't think it mattered but i wasnt sure
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
limpid willow
i read it 🗡 🗡
cobalt marsh
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
civic palm
it makes garrote do more damage
strange python
🤔
civic palm
Does Garrote hit once?
limpid willow
are you saying it applies that bonus damage every tick?
civic palm
It makes Garrote... do more damage.
lofty sand
we should set up a counter for SS questions
civic palm
Nah just nerf it into the ground so no one uses it.
nimble tartan
hello big brain sinners who here is playing exsang and who here is playing tb 😃
lofty sand
Everyone else answered
civic palm
I play both O _O
lofty sand
SS applies its damage to Garrote's duration.
limpid willow
like is it just the bug thats making it sim highly or is it the flat damage im asking on a mechanical level why it works and if you read my post i asked if it was just a flat 500 upfront or if its 500 extra every tick
i hope i am not being unreasonable i just like to know why things are the way they are
civic palm
There are no bugs increasing the damage of Garrote
lofty sand
You are not reading us
nimble tartan
areu gonna play tb or exsang in raid mizerok 😃
civic palm
I play both in Raid O _O
Though TBF this week I am fucking tunneling, so it doesn't really matter which.
civic palm
EX is better for short fights due to the 2:20min lineup, TB is better for damage over longer time so long there isn't another lineup.
lofty sand
I can see exsang being good to add an extra burst on the zul adds
limpid willow
@lofty sand just reread the entire guide, the pins, and everything you and maz said
im not seeing it
lofty sand
Yes, it does apply to every single tick of garrote with no exception.
civic palm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
lofty sand
there, is that clear enough for you?
nimble tartan
what ur ilvl mizerok
limpid willow
yes, thank you 😃 thats exactly what I wanted to hear without the wild goose chase. thanks. see ya around
civic palm
I even left my item level in the screenshaaaaaawt.
lofty sand
jesus, 99% of sins out there using the godamn trait is it so hard to believe its good? Its like calling everyone idiots.
civic palm
It's a little vague.
delicate gull
you guys think 150dps is worth exsanguinate? i feel like its really hard to line up the CDS correctly in this raid and thats what really makes the dps better
civic palm
Play what you like better.
delicate gull
xD
lofty sand
If you feel its hard, don't play it
you should always favor a playstyle that works for you
limpid willow
@lofty sand I sure hope there is nothing wrong with asking why something works
gentle mantle
Def not kawaii,
civic palm
lofty sand
I do believe asking is fine, now wanting us to convince you of our answers not so much. Specially when there is so much about that trait not only here but everywhere else on the internet.
civic palm
Nah people everywhere on the internet are still asking if the CP stack.
When you can just... Garrote and see.
delicate gull
wait toxic blade actually sims 4 dps higher for me, im free of exsanguinate
lofty sand
omg grats
I'll stick to TB up to the point where the dps difference is too big to ignore, I don't wanna learn raid fights while having to worry about burst windows if I can avoid it
lone junco
4dps Praise Jeeessuz
limber wind
Does the azerite trait "Shrouded suffocation" procc on every garrote you do within "Subterfuge"?
lofty sand
😖
limber wind
?
fluid ibex
hi - how do u guys engage 3+ packs in m+ ? i tend to go double garrote on 2 mobs (2x shrouded trait) then rupture then fan until 4-5 rupture again then envenom main target - does that make sense?
lofty sand
triple garrote into a CT then spread rup
strange python
No
fluid ibex
i play poison bomb
lofty sand
using FoK as builder
lofty sand
well then I guess you do triple garrote and pray to god your ruptures proc something
fluid ibex
go*
fluid ibex
triple garrote rly?
strange python
Personal choice at this point, also depends on the instance
civic palm
lofty sand
its the max amount you can do on the subterfuge window
fluid ibex
ty 😃
lofty sand
@civic palm we should probably pin that too
civic palm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
lofty sand
proof that SS is not a scam
strange python
Cos its bugged
fluid ibex
as soon as i got my 2nd SS trait sin started to outsim my sub specc xD
civic palm
@safe matrix We might want to add to the FAQ that Shrouded Suffocation works on every tick > _> and not total damage?
safe matrix
sorry what
civic palm
WEIRD BIRB DO NOT LIKE
There is some confusion as to whether Shrouded Suffocation increases the damage of every tick of Garrote, or something else.
safe matrix
actually, since the shrouded suffocation stuff is in the guide now, you think I can remove it?
quiet spruce
Ya, I was unsure about that when I initially read ss
safe matrix
like the rotation stuff
civic palm
Yeah the rotations are in the guide that's probably fine.
safe matrix
"-Shrouded Suffocation makes every tick of garrote hit harder rather than other means to buff the damage. "?
civic palm
Yeah I am trying to think of a way to word it.
Shrouded Suffocation increases the Damage of Every Tick of Garrote and not the Total Damage of Garrote?
safe matrix
well it does
civic palm
I know it does you butt.
safe matrix
it buffs overall damage by buffing every tick of garrote
civic palm
har har har
peak sapphire
Its applied before subterfuge increase too right?
safe matrix
"-Shrouded Suffocation works by buffing each tick of garrote, rather than some other mean to increase overall damage."
good enough
safe matrix
yes
limber wind
thanks
hybrid thicket
Guys I am new to siming. How can I make siming show me what is better for me ? I mean which talent. Do you guys do it like for example set toxic blade and sim, set exsang do another sim and compare which have higher dps?
safe matrix
stone gust
For shrouded suffo, you want 2 or three?
hybrid thicket
Thanks so much bois 😉
severe niche
stone pilot
is it worth delaying exsang slightly to line it up with on use trinkets like galecallers?
strange python
Its fine
Gonna line up fine for the 2;20ish anyway
By the way, when the recommended opener says "Garrote twice" do I garrote twice in a row?
At the end of an opening cycle
Or do I garrote -> rupture -> garrote like the initial cycle of the opener
severe niche
double garrote
cuz your exsang rupture is still on the target
you dont wana refresh that
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
severe niche
doesnt answer his question , since he was asking a question about something in that guide but sure
daring imp
the spec of all sims
strange python
truly
safe matrix
basically yeah, you don't want to overwrite the exsang rupture
strange python
Imagine if SS gave the bonus combo points on every individual trait
😩
Yeah thanks
I played a tiny bit of rogue at the end of Legion and back then Poison Blade was meta
safe matrix
but it doesnt really matter which way you do the double garrote since you have time for 3 globals
strange python
So I never played Exsang
safe matrix
you just dont want to waste combo points
strange python
naturally, typical rogue stuff
safe matrix
you can even do rupture/garrote/garrote if you have the energy for it and you vanished with full points 🤷
severe niche
exsang was so fun back in en in legion where you just went for 100% ep uptime, the days
rose dove
Just to be sure about one of the pins, about Shrouded being bugged - when you use garrote out of stealth your Shrouded buffed-garrotes lose the buff. Does it apply only if you recast on the same target or just if you cast garrote on ANY target?
strange python
Any
safe matrix
any
strange python
Any
safe matrix
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
strange python
That's why you can't multi-garrote beyond 3 if you want to keep the buff
Ideally you want the first and last cast of subt to be garrote
rose dove
Ya, thanks guys
strange python
For max buffed uptime
So you can mut - vanish - gar - env - gar
If you dont need to refresh rupt
Nice
limber wind
After reading this conversation, I realize how little I know about assa rogue gameplay
oof
strange python
Yeah I'm learning too haha
snow orchid
but you can multi-garrote more if you vanish and apply to three more?
strange python
Yes
safe matrix
its just overwritten when you cast an unbuffed one
cunning pebble
So in theory you could do 3 garrotes from normal stealth, vanish and do 3 more for a total of 6?
solid sluice
are we running exang in dungeons?
keen spruce
Sim you character with both talents
take whichever you think fits the encounter better if they're close
or just use the one that sims higher
probably a good start
I know one of the guys with the 100th %ile parse uses exanguinate, but his gear setup sims higher with it
for me TB is quite a bit stronger on a patchwerk fight
coral meteor
Can the next patch make galecallers give vers or mastery or something so I have an excuse never to use it again
velvet kernel
ok
keen spruce
velvet kernel
i just feel really bad at assas
solid sluice
i'm asking for dungeons though
jolly notch
So how long before we get nerfed? Lmao
keen spruce
@solid sluice, TB has a shorter CD so you can use it on trash more often
on tyrannical weeks maybe exanguinate
coral meteor
You already got nerfed @jolly notch 🤔
keen spruce
I dunno why exang would seem good on big trash pulls though
trying to multi dot everything
strange python
severe niche
priority targets ^^
strange python
Why would TB be good then
keen spruce
sure but TB does the same thing
strange python
Its actually useless
coral meteor
it would be good if you were poison bombing adds I guess?
keen spruce
I mean it just comes down to usage and situation
severe niche
i mean in m+ you should be taking crimson tempest regardless
coral meteor
ye
keen spruce
and what your gear determines is best
low nymph
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
jolly notch
@coral meteor when did we get nerfed after launch?
jolly notch
I didnt read anything on ass rogue besides shuriken trait pvp nerf
coral meteor
I'm only taking the piss out of this 😛
civic palm
Shrouded Suffocation got an 11% DMG nerf earlier on.
coral meteor
Although yeah there was that
civic palm
When it was originally fixed.
coral meteor
I'm scared for them to properly fix SS
keen spruce
Assa is the right spot
keen spruce
now they nerfed the other ones and we're good
but it'll be a couple weeks before they trim us
coral meteor
Sin had a difference on paper but it was almost negligible in practice and wasn't even the lowest sim out of the 3 for uldir mythic lol
keen spruce
hmm exang is simming higher for me now too 
lilac spade
Why not squeeze crimson on opener with exanguinate?
undone cairn
no
coral meteor
NO
undone cairn
i need it more
undone cairn
I NEED IT
jolly notch
Oh yeah i started as an outlaw rogue then shrouded suffaction found me and im in love. Almost switched mains to another class
Idk how to chqnge the roll, idk if it matters
coral meteor
:F
velvet kernel
just get haste on 370 4Head
undone cairn
what dungeons have you guys been spamming
hardy bluff
misspelled arena
undone cairn
smh
hardy bluff
easiest gear of mai life
half ginkgo
i spammed tol dagor in hope of a freakin dagger <.<... nothing dropped so far...
tacit plinth
if it makes you feel better I afk'd a warfront and got a 370 crit/haste dagger
severe niche
when haste better than agi https://gyazo.com/f2cdf64da2082272cb45ff901ba5c250
strange python
Its shitty 355 base anyway this week
daring imp
@half ginkgo try freehold
half ginkgo
@daring imp i´ll give it a shot later 😄
strange python
based HASTE god
undone cairn
gross freehold dagger gives vers mastery
severe niche
tol dagor dagger is lit
undone cairn
^
strange python
pls give me haste milkies
severe niche
pray for a 390 from weekly cache
strange python
You know you play a good class when secondaries outweigh primary in the first tier
Thats most classes
true I guess
vernal sinew
Guys What u Think about Exanguinate and fan of knife talent in M+?
strange python
But sin is pretty early on the secondary train
vernal sinew
Good morning all
undone cairn
uhhh
severe niche
hb is bad for m+ since you spam FoK
vernal sinew
I see yestday fragnance in KR with this 2 talent and his dps was insane. ..
severe niche
legit get 0 value
tall talon
got this yday 
tacit plinth
FoK feels terrible coming from SS
tacit plinth
meh rather have the haste option for bosses still
even with haste you do insane damage on trash no matter what
shits broken
severe niche
just wnat an even mix
strange python
Haste already at the bottom even for ST for me
severe niche
idk how
are you jsut low ilvl?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jBaLqvDKCcSX7P5xmK6Mgx like this is my sim
i have 355 galecallers
and haste still over agi
like
vernal sinew
@severe niche Wich azerite trait have ur Head?
vernal sinew
And What did do?
severe niche
look in raid journal at loot
strange python
Same
severe niche
st ye
tacit plinth
yha
severe niche
i still exsang in m+
tacit plinth
I simmed 5 bossees patchwork for 1 min
tacit plinth
and 223xx23 is best for me
severe niche
im bout to tram some keys hard if yo uwana watch my stream
strange python
Haste sims high for me even in add cleave
severe niche
self advertising allowed here?
strange python
It's like .04 below crit
severe niche
right click my name profile and click if you want
can maby answer soem more stuff
not an omega pro but i think i have half a brain
velvet kernel
ok so do i wait for envenom to get low or do i just use the combo points?
severe niche
envenom buff?
velvet kernel
yh
severe niche
ep is more important
velvet kernel
i prob sound like a noob but ep?
lament dove
elaborate planning
jolly notch
So im guessing its worth it to envenom at say 2cp if you get unlucky?
During exsang window
To keep ep up
civic palm
no
undone cairn
reeeeee
civic palm
_> i saw that
undone cairn
i'm doing less aoe damage using ct
civic palm
Unpossible, hit CT more.
strange python
Its not like CT is some godly aoe talent
undone cairn
im hitting ct when dot is less than 2 secs
strange python
Pb does fine
civic palm
If you're in 3+ target (AoE) it replaces ENV as your Finisher.
undone cairn
ohhhhhhhhhh
civic palm
and CT very easily does 2x the damage of PBOMB stop that shit > _>
civic palm
Yep.
undone cairn
yeah idk what im doing wrong
lament dove
you'll run out of energy if you're not rupturing
undone cairn
i'm fok'ing and rupturing and keeping up ct dot
velvet kernel
i feel like i always run out of engergy
jolly notch
Rupture more for more energy
undone cairn
should i overlap ruptures?
jolly notch
Not usually
golden quarry
whats the best trait for assass pvp
undone cairn
🤔
next creek
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
jolly notch
Ss has worked well for me in pvp with exsang
strange python
PB / CT depends completely on the dungeon
dull spruce
I use 2 Twist the knife and 1 rezans fury/SS
lament dove
if you're in the last group:)
oblique pendant
i was in mid group 😛
tender walrus
We should be put in the last grp right?
limber wind
I played assa yday on mother aswell, raid leader put me in 2nd group
sinful lotus
Would you guys still run Sin on Zul? If so, PB or CT?
strange python
every dps should be in last group
limber wind
i REE'd so hard
strange python
according to themselves
Tbh non-target aoe is always prio in the earlier groups
All rogue specs have shit aoe on the adds since you can damage them before they're targetable
tender walrus
Yea our st is better in mother
strange python
Def
I played OL on Mother and I guess the cleave was OK
I was in the last group though so ;^)
limber wind
I was 2nd dps in group, even if i was afk half the fight
undone cairn
o wait
limber wind
(2nd grp)