try to achieve that
#assassination
daring imp
prime stirrup
He was pulling your leg slyce
prime stirrup
Bleed baby bleed
daring imp
ohhhhhhh smart boy
inner tree
haste is that good yes
blazing steeple
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
daring imp
i wonder how much haste we'd need for 3x ss garrotes to tick every 0.1s
prime stirrup
Haste is always good. If it comes in the form of crit/haste it's even better
prime stirrup
What's your energy regen like? Feel starved without crits?
west frost
That's good haste
civic locust
Which t100 talent with Exsa for dungeons? Still PB?
molten fox
man i gotta say i really like assa
prime stirrup
I'm at 24%/15% crit/haste
meager aspen
@prime stirrup Sometimes i'm out of energy, like 0.5/1s gap :c
lofty sand
CT is better for dungeons
lone junco
@daring imp during exang and lust it is down to 0..6. Ish. So that's probably not happening.
meager aspen
Should I take more crit ?
prime stirrup
Yea
daring imp
still, one can dream 😦
lone junco
Crit is good in 5s. Need cps from the fok if you plan to ever Ct.
prime stirrup
Sim yourself for starters. But more than likely you're going to want more crit
meager aspen
Though it was full haste for Single Target, before Crit
prime stirrup
Nothing better than fok fok fok fok fok for 5 cp honestly the best feeling in the game
meager aspen
Got a multi target gear from Sub with 25% crit / 45% Mastery and 8% Hast
prime stirrup
Crit makes rotation faster
Meaning more uptime on ep/envenom which add up in the grand scale of things
sharp wren
So i got the Construct Overcharger. And the Frenetic Corpuscle trinkets. But is fathoms still better than either one of those?
daring imp
that 4 hits do some damage trinket?
chrome umbra
CT is only good in dungeons where pulls consistently have 5+ mobs in them. So if your tank pulls like a sissy then you’d run PB
meager aspen
For this m+ week, should i go for crit/mastery or not crit/hast ?
inner tree
my only heroic loot this week frenetic corpuscule omegalul
prime stirrup
It takes so damn long to get 4 stacks and then you have to watch it like a hawk to have it line up with something
sharp wren
I got a heroic titanforged construct overcharger 😃
meager aspen
-not
daring imp
@chrome umbra not easy to convince the tanks of my guild to stop pulling one pack at a time and go deep ç_ç
tips on how to taunt them pls
prime stirrup
It's legit such a let down. I got a socketed version and I wish I would have just given to guildie because I'm never going to use it
sharp wren
So i take it i still use fathoms over it then
main blaze
Uldir trinkets are hot garbo
sharp wren
CT seems alright
prime stirrup
Yeah, I'm using fathoms/galecallers
sharp wren
Err
kindred cedar
What dungeons does the SS azerite armor drop from?
sharp wren
Construct
daring imp
does that haste trinket from uldir proc decently?
molten fox
12% haste is too low right? i main outlaw but starting to really like asa
edgy trellis
does exsang apply only on the target or on everyone with dot ?
chrome umbra
CT only accounts to like 10% of my overall dmg. Garrote is 30-40
prime stirrup
It's low. But horrid
inner tree
my 340 dice is actually better
daring imp
@molten fox it's somewhere, start stacking it and see the monster growing
prime stirrup
15% seems to be a good number
kindred cedar
Im at 19% haste atm as assa
lone junco
@edgy trellis st.
molten fox
hmm ok
kindred cedar
What dungeons does the SS azerite armor drop from?
prime stirrup
Shrine for head
inner tree
underrot chest
prime stirrup
Chest is gold plated epulates or whatever. Think that's temple?
daring imp
uldir 3rd boss also has a piece
inner tree
no shoulders with ss in dung
daring imp
uh, mb, fetid
prime stirrup
Fetid is a lovely fight
daring imp
it's quite easy to down it on a pug atleast on normal
prime stirrup
Almost impossible to mess up
sharp wren
I killed all of normal in a pug today
prime stirrup
Grats!
sharp wren
It was pretty impressive. I went in there not even expecting to pass Mother
prime stirrup
I'm 5/8 heroic with my guild only reading 2 hours. A day. We're 4 hours into heroic
Raiding*
30 man raiding is not fun btw. Can't wait till mythic cuts go out and we're down to 20
daring imp
i secretly hate carrying people that die in less than a minute into any fight Ç_Ç
prime stirrup
I vocally hate people that don't move zekvoz eye beams out of melee group
daring imp
IT'S NOT MY FAULT THE PUGS I GET IN ALL GIVE ME OVER 300MS OK 😦
twin roost
If I have a trinket that increases my agility, do I need to use it before I rupture to get the dps increase or will the bleed tick up after I use the trinket (but the bleed is already applied)
Also the same question, but with vendetta
torpid sluice
When using CT in dungeons, in the opener, do you still do Garotte > Rupture with atleast 1x SS or do you do Garrote > CT?
jovial kite
Only things that snapshot are ns and subt
torpid sluice
Against bosses
twin roost
Thx Bisjack
prime stirrup
people are saying to garrote garrote garrote ct then go into rupture
but i dont personally play with ct so I cant tell you exact rotation
valid dawn
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
jaunty lotus
Thats for multiple targets
prime stirrup
@torpid sluice no matter what you do, when you have SS you need to apply 3 garrotes in subterfuge window, doesnt matter if youre cp capped
torpid sluice
Thats what I wanted to know 😛
torpid sluice
On ST isn't it: Gar > Rupt > Gar > Mut > Even?
jaunty lotus
Garrote 3x in st doesn't make much sense
torpid sluice
^
prime stirrup
st garrote garrote rupture vendetta tb mut enven
valid dawn
U can cast garrote twice on the same target ? :S wut
prime stirrup
.......................
daring imp
subterfuge
prime stirrup
you can cast 3 times with subterfuge
dawn merlin
is overwhelming power not the top simming azerite trait in the 2nd tier anymore?
prime stirrup
it still is
valid dawn
I thought i could only apply it to 3 targets with subterfuge
dawn merlin
ah, it is not listed in the ravenholdt guide
prime stirrup
ravenholdt guide is 
@civic palm has a nice google docs page with sin rotations
ill try and find it if he doesnt link
He said he was taking out garrote rupture garrote opener in favor of garrote garrote rupture. not sure if that happened
prime stirrup
not mine, mizerok deserve credit
prime stirrup
yeah im going to have to run sims and see if thats the way to go right now for my azerite traits/ secondary stats. but its looking promising
prime stirrup
ill link what he said earlier about garrote rupture garrote when i find it. gimmie a min
rough knoll
literally just started playing sin so not much use
valid dawn
Ok so garrote - rupture - garrote - It just looks like it extends the timer for me. does it actually stack?
prime stirrup
In response to "you dont need that extra rupture on opener" he said this [5:25 AM] MIZEROK [InSomnia]: Yeah I can remove the added Rupture that's waste.
rough knoll
but not the way you're thinking
kindred cedar
The garr garr rupture and garr rupt garr opener is the same i heard
I do 2x garr then rupture
prime stirrup
except you dont have to use CP for rupture refresh and you also dont have to worry about a 3cp ruptures timing
thats why im using garrote2x rupture
maiden siren
hmm people running poison bomb in M+ now or is crimson still strong?
prime stirrup
no, i wouldnt. by the time your garrote is wearing down you will have just reapplied another 5 cp rupture. so when you vanish you can hit garrote garrote enven
daring imp
@maiden siren at the end of m+ pb is ~3% of my dmg, didn't test ct yet tho ç_ç
prime stirrup
I ran PB in a 10 and had zero problems with it
torpid sluice
Was 16% of mine
prime stirrup
a lot of people disagree with me, but i could careless. im not doing CT until mobs last 1 min
torpid sluice
But was doing Freehold
dawn merlin
agreed
daring imp
@torpid sluice pb 16% dmg? wth
rough knoll
@prime stirrup what would the full gar x2 rup opener be?
prime stirrup
garrote 2x rupture vendetta tb mut even
rough knoll
tb exchangable with exsang right
prime stirrup
exsang is a little different if youre running it. but i beleve you just replace tb with another mut and save exsange for after
dawn merlin
are you guys running exsang due to personal pref, or does it actually sim better at some point?
for me its about 300 dps loss
prime stirrup
its on a case by case basis
rough knoll
i mean i have 2 traits
prime stirrup
i believe when you have enough stacked SS traits its a decent increase
i havent simmed myself with it yet, im only running 1xSS
prime stirrup
might be your secondary stats too
dawn merlin
hmm, will keep an eye out for it
prime stirrup
@rough knoll looks like with exsang your opener changes a bit, you want pandemic'd garrote and rupture then dump exsang
Garrote Rupture Garrote Vendetta Mutilate Rupture Exsanguinate Vanish+Garrote x2
save vanish/garrotex2 till garrote fully wears off
valid dawn
Hmmm i'm following this but I get less damage than the TB/PoisonB build
could be my haste
prime stirrup
exsang with that low haste probably isnt worth
you want high haste + stacked SS traits
valid dawn
got 2 ss
prime stirrup
so your haste is holding you back ATM
prime stirrup
i do yes, but thats because i have more
winter gale
I know there is no precise cap but still, when I play I feel like its a bit low
main blaze
Crit and Haste work in similar ways
prime stirrup
theres zero cap for haste at this point
main blaze
so its best to see what your crit and your haste is
prime stirrup
you cant get enough secondary stats to hit a soft or hard cap
im at 24%/15% crit/haste with most my pieces being crit/haste
winter gale
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
winter gale
So I guess that I need like 4-6% haste/crit to feel better
While playing
I have 33% combined
prime stirrup
haste will currently always make sin feel better
winter gale
Yes
Will farm some, its still tourist season here in my country so I dont have that much time 😂
prime stirrup
faster ticks + more energy means more dmg all around
prime stirrup
we all feel like that right now
no matter what you will still have to pool
but with more haste you have slitghtly less downtime
true ingot
So. Will the 5% nerfs make us the dom spec?
prime stirrup
potentially
From raidbots sims it shows us as highest rogue sim after nerfs. but you never know
true ingot
5% to sub
prime stirrup
reset
winter gale
I want to play this spec, I want it to be up there
prime stirrup
sub takes a pretty decent hit, and outlaw takes a hit too
true ingot
Outlaw takes a much larger hit than Sub does. But I guess Sub also had their trait hit by 10% without it being reported
prime stirrup
ohandza we were best spec for majority of legion
winter gale
Yes
prime stirrup
so its okay if we arent the shining diamond at the moment
prime stirrup
but dont worry, this chan will be over run here in about 4 days
true ingot
I'm fine with Sin not being the shining jewel right now. Until we get the haste to not feel like we're wading through a swamp.
prime stirrup
full of misinformation and repeated questions
yeah, Im curious how we look with mythic gear
right now doesnt mean crap
prime stirrup
this is just the first tuning patch too, more will come. we arent safe yet
Hopefull SS doesn't take too large a hit, and the other traits get a buff
Id really like to see dagger in the back be more usefull
true ingot
Pls no.
native fjord
I see we survived the nerfening
true ingot
Dagger in the back is a really lame trait.
prime stirrup
this week we did
true ingot
Let it die.
prime stirrup
it is a really lame trait, but if you 3 stack anything it shouldnt be trash
and it goes into the entire theme of sin rogues
native fjord
The other specs are quite upset especially outlaw
true ingot
I don't blame outlaw being upset tbh. This is the first time they've really been top tier since the start of EN where they similarly got dumpstered by the nerf bat.
dreamy quest
do we do use CTempest on st?
prime stirrup
that was to PVP
true ingot
No.
prime stirrup
no dont ct on ST
dreamy quest
ty ty
prime stirrup
i thought deadshot nerf was only to PVP which if thats the case outlaw was good for pvp in legion
I had no probs against the outlaw rogues i went against in 3s. deadshot hits were only like 18k
violet sonnet
They just outright nerfed deadshot
native fjord
^
violet sonnet
pvp and pve
split spoke
u can just play laser matrix for outlaw, ez np
prime stirrup
ah, i just saw nothing for sin so i didnt look too hard at it all
native fjord
I'm kinda suprised we survived the first round
I excepted all 3 specs to get nerfed
fierce ingot
my dudes
steep forge
oh ok
meager knoll
Pls I came from outlaw chat to try forget the horrible DS nerf, pls no reminders
Holy shit... Imagine rolling a dagger like that
native fjord
I would lose my shit for a dagger like that
twilit owl
Weapons cant titanforge as far as i Know
native fjord
I haven't done any mythic+ yet
Only done the raid, has mythic plus forced us to talent change?
Or still as before
native fjord
Gotcha
peak sapphire
who needs to titanforge weps when u can pvp at 1600 and get items better than m+
https://i.imgur.com/KpbYMes.png
urban storm
since most of the fighting is done against trash
meager knoll
Holy shit... That energy regen that CT should give?
I've never tried it but I just realised that
twilit owl
CT Doesnt give Energy Regen on poisioned enemys
prime quail
I love how you feel great with that shitty 360 dagger
In a week we have easy 380 daggers
urban storm
how?
prime quail
From running our +12-15
urban storm
"easy"
native fjord
.>
urban storm
definitely guaranteed drop
native fjord
I would pay to get garunteed 380 drops
urban storm
everyone would? lol
prime quail
A +10 key gives you 370 ilvl next week
urban storm
i got a real good trinket, but traded it because its not good for sin
all the hunters wanted it
meager aspen
With 19/19% crit/hast, should I go for less hast and more crit ? Like 25/14% ? (switching gems and enchant)
prime stirrup
with TF up to 400 and if it drops azerite gear its minimum 385
urban storm
most people are not going to get a 10+ done week 2
prime stirrup
so youre numbers are wrong @prime quail you can chest at mythicpl.us
prime quail
prime stirrup
why not celadriel? i got a 10 done in 66 min
prime quail
I know the chest has 385
prime stirrup
wastn that aids
prime quail
Im Talking about the end of a m+
prime stirrup
well right now you cap at end of m+ at lvl 5
urban storm
he said starting tuesday, which is when the cap is removed
prime stirrup
they dont want you out gearing heroic before mythic is released
prime quail
Stupid thinking
native fjord
Anyways I grinded up to 340 for the raid now I'm taking it slow now
prime stirrup
https://mythicpl.us/ check rewards a little lower
urban storm
well theyre just trying to prevent what happened at the beginning of legion where people essentially outgeared mythic EN before it came out
prime stirrup
355 is current max base ilvl from end of dungeon chest
dark sun
is it better to focus on maximizing envenom uptime or too pool full energy and utilize eleborate planning window fully?
prime quail
What freaking lab window ?
stoic blaze
anyone wanna link some sims
dark sun
I just mean if you get 5 combo points and pool to full you can finish, get lab and fit in 2xmuti + another finisher with a 10% increase in dmg those abilites
but during the pooling you drop envenom buff for longer
prime quail
Whats pooling ? Is this some rogue since launch language ? 😅
urban storm
.
twilit owl
Dont spending Any Energy: pooling. Get a Pool of Energy .
urban storm
(he knows what pooling is)
prime quail
I don't
urban storm
at least, i assume someone who thinks everyone is going to be running a +12-15 come tuesday knows what pooling is
twilit owl
Well Maybe someone Else didnt Know . Now they Know .
prime quail
Well sorry to say but I didn't
And well most good ppl will run around next week doing those maybe not casually
But to push for the next chest for sure
thorny maple
is assassination looking like the go to now/
winter turtle
will be fotm pretty soon i suppose 😏
twilit owl
Just Play what you like the most .
urban storm
you can still play what you want
5% is not the end of the world
will still be higher than most, as sub and outlaw were >5% ahead of a reasonable amount of specs
and not everything got buffed
grim wolf
do we ever hold CDs or do we use exsang/tb/vend on CD?
winter turtle
finally got a second dagger and can give assa a little spin... any advice for proper exsang usage? never played bleed build
thorny maple
5%but a 20% nerf to outlaw best trait
thorny maple
3 generic traits now ahead of deadshot
twilit owl
Every outlaw is gonna join us soon . Then we are on Blizzard Detection for the next nerf
prime quail
There are a lot of sub rogues still around lol
Outlaw is the I heard rogue is op in BfA Legion dudes
twilit owl
There are so many of them
prime quail
Like afflis
thorny maple
I was outlaw before BfA
prime quail
Congrats and now what
🤔
Just said that outlaw is the omg I'm so bad ty blizz for this specc im a rogue in BfA ppl
exotic frigate
I think we'll be coming back to sin 😂
prime quail
Even a DH is more complex
exotic frigate
They're fucking everything up that I like about sub
astral plover
What traits do u want? 3x SS?
strange iris
all other things equal, yes 3x SS is the best
could someone explain to me Garrote/Rupture/Garrote as opener with SS? and Garrote/Garrote after first vanish?
strange python
Jomyo, head over to this link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xac5HPe_-CgXJo4yUiv_LJldqLu5WjPjUq9d0wRqmIg/edit#gid=0
frosty oak
is hidden blades EVER a good option over the other 2?
winter gale
Maaaan
strange python
It has good burst aoe but for longer term fights, nope
thorny maple
is exsg the go to talent now?
winter gale
One final answer?
strange iris
opener is garrote/rupture/garrote
dark token
garrote rupture garotte saves you 3cp towards a 5cp rupture override
edgy trellis
its Garrote rupture garrote you want EP on your garotte
dark token
if you did garrote garotte rupture you might need mut mut
spice surge
The thing about doing 2 garrote>rupt is that you are just wasting cp
Because you use the first mini rupture to make sure the second one is fully pandemiced for exsang
urban storm
i believe that assumes some # of shrouded suff
spice surge
Yeah
devout moth
what is the assa build to go in m+?
spice surge
Shrouded 3x
urban storm
same as raid, but use crimson tempest
thorny maple
how is assassination in M+
stark ridge
FoK spam or garrote spam?
devout moth
i got 2 shrouded @spice surge how should i play in a multitarget situation
stark ridge
kinda wish I saved all my other azerite pieces lol
mortal finch
Garrote>Nongarrot
west frost
frosty oak
a non buffed up one? like just a out of stealth one not a vendetta or EP one? @spice surge
i mean in stealth
spice surge
The buffed ones ofc
west frost
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
frosty oak
o.o
so
should i apply 4 garrotes with subterfuge, and then dont use garrote until they all expire?
frosty oak
er i guess u cant do 4
west frost
You wont land 4 in sub
frosty oak
i guess i was just using it out of stealth then
so 3 garrotes let them fall off then start using it?
urban storm
ya your 4th would be non subt
but youd still be ablet o cast it cuz it wouldnt have the cooldown yet
drowsy crag
The real question is what percentage of haste do you want before you start using exang?
frosty oak
yeah
soft island
I like blisart. Everything working as intended 👌
drowsy crag
I'm sitting at like 10% haste and it just isn't doing it for me. I'm stacked SSX2 rn
frosty oak
my exsang was only 40 dps less than tb and i had 7% haste... @drowsy crag
now i have 15%
fluid falcon
14% I do ok
urban storm
15, only 21 crit tho
soft island
Exa Sims worse for me by 400 dps, 14 haste here
edgy trellis
why do you need haste for exsang ?
drowsy crag
you need haste for everything as sin lol
urban storm
haste is good regardless
drowsy crag
But exsang is definitely more useful with a shitton of haste. thanks for the response guys
If you're rocking low haste you're going to pretty much break even between exsang and TB
delicate root
am on 17% haste with 355 gale trinket - can confirm exsang is awesome with more haste 😄
drowsy crag
I'll see if I can push to 15% before I really start counting my numbers. just seems unfair to compare it right now lmao
south cave
How is double dose doing?
frosty oak
how much dps increase should i see from getting a 3rd SS?
spice surge
Double dose is pretty decent ST, but anything with another target gets smashed by SS, especially for dungeons where you can stealth a lot
south cave
Ok cool thanks, currently got 3 dd's
edgy trellis
how can you see exsang dmg ?
west frost
@frosty oak 
astral plover
With 17% haste i sim the same wi th exan
charred hornet
probably a stupid question but I cant find answer elsewhere, Does shrouded suffocation extra damage ONLY work on stealth garrotes?
south cave
What should i also aim for in the 2nd trait slot?
west frost
It's on the tooltip
charred hornet
yeah it says AND deals 511 additional damage
west frost
From stealth
charred hornet
but does that mean only from stealth
so that extra damage only applies to stealth garrotes
gilded mirage
correct
south cave
'from stealth'
charred hornet
kk thanks for clarification
astral plover
Ive head that SS is bugged. so it it dumb to go with 3x SS?
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
west frost
Read the pins, read the faqs
rain breach
Outlaw, sub and assa seems even after 9/11. so everyone can play the specc he likes.
soft island
If I 3x gar and vanish 3x garotte, I am gucci amarite 🤔
west frost
I believe so
sage cipher
why is assa so good in kings rest?
west frost
Last boss we get nice cleave
timid grotto
ig because all the mobs have 500k+ hp so maintaining all the buffs is better than having sub or outlaw just cleave
*dots
spice surge
There are no big packs in kings rest
Only 2-5 mob packs
and the slimes, but they're w/e
split dirge
maybe im looking in entirely wrong places but i checked ravenholdt guide and i cant find anywhere specifically saying what talents you take for xsang build
spice surge
You swap tb for exsang
split dirge
it lists obviously which talents are viable but do i want something like crimson tempest 100% of the time for bleed?
violet sonnet
that's abt it
split dirge
over poison bomb?
violet sonnet
CT is amazing in M+
split dirge
so id still follow this guide but with exsang? since last expansion i remember it was DS for bleed and vigor for poison or smthing like that]
timid grotto
depends on the dungeon ig
violet sonnet
yeah
timid grotto
and ur rng
violet sonnet
like im not taking CT into King's Rest
rose sequoia
Is it best to clip/maintain ep with 3cp, or 4-5 combo finishers
cinder palm
I like both talents in that tier, I prefer PB on smaller packs, CT makes to too busy unless you’re pulling huge
violet sonnet
I usually only go CT if it's a tank ik can handle big pack pulls.
frosty oak
is the difference between 2x and 3x ss noticeable?
frosty oak
damn
cinder palm
3 is godly
frosty oak
i had to search all my gear for what had it, i just switched from sub
and got it on 1 340, and 1 325, and 3rd piece has the sands trait and overwhelming
but i gotta get 3x of 340+
cinder palm
Yeah man I got super lucky and rolled it all 3 340
inland path
for m+
cinder palm
I’ve still been running toxic blade, currently at 17% haste
Haven’t simmed exsang yet
agile geode
just switched to assa, anything i should know=¨
frosty oak
is there any noticeably good pieces of gear in uldir for us?
cinder palm
I will when I get home though, I’m interested
frosty oak
i just simmed at 15% haste for me
dire spoke
frosty oak
and exsang does
cinder palm
Yeah man, 2nd boss garrote chest
timid grotto
whats the haste soft cap ?
violet sonnet
There is none @timid grotto
eternal wave
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
cinder palm
I doubt there is a soft cap for haste, sin your stat weights for sures
sim*
Outlaw got nerfed, they didn’t touch sin or SS yet. Happy day for me
timid grotto
i hope they dont such ss, cba to farm another 3 azerite amor pieces
remote leaf
yup back to assassination for me
cinder palm
I don’t think they will... at least I hope not
I’m saving every single Azerite piece I get though
I’m fucking stacked on them😂
split dirge
same i cba playing with passive traits so bleed rogue it is
timid grotto
I dont get why the ynerfed it and buffed the other one, its basically the same now
lost heart
Exsg vs TB for M+?
split dirge
they reduced overall trait dps by basically nothin just made you choose a boring one 🤔
cinder palm
At least they nerfed no hands BM Hunter lul
Literally auto shot and pet melee and do a trillion damage in pvp feelsbalancedman
timid grotto
ye they got fucked
cinder palm
@lost heart I would sim yourself to see what works best for your character. I still run TB
lost heart
can you do sims for m+ specifically?
cinder palm
It’s the same either way. Bosses I would sim for patchwork, and then trash packs you can sim for hectic add cleave
remote leaf
Heed my call for 2nd ring?
cinder palm
Currently seems the strongest but yeah I would sim for sure
lost heart
Oh gotcha
cinder palm
It might very well be
lost heart
is there a command line option for fight style for simc?
cinder palm
You can choose fight style on raidbots
You can choose fight style on raidbots
Are you using raidbots or simulationcraft software?
I personally like raidbots better, easier on the CPU my doggie
cinder palm
It’s pretty great 😃
lost heart
last time I felt like the queue times were crazy long
sly bloom
guys, what do you generally skill in Freehold?
skip*
first few packs before 1st boss are the most painful in my group
frosty oak
i skip all the way to first boss after the first pack
then skip the last 3 packs before final
onyx dew
sly bloom
but you have to the them anyway after doing 1st boss
frosty oak
you have to pull the final pack right before the 1st boss yes
stark ridge
@frosty oak same. I skip all of the trash in the last room and just shroud up to the balcony and fight the boss there
rich olive
how much ilvl is it worth dropping for the 3rd ss trait? or should u just go for the highest ilvl pos.
inland path
got 3 garrote relics now with x3 heed my call 👌
stark ridge
@rich olive you'll have to sim the gear. you can compare them on raidbots easily
frosty oak
i just realized
all 3 of the mythic dungeon gear with SS
have heed my call
isnt that like op as shit in pvp
er no
im thinking thunderous blast huh
is SS damage on the trait per tick or overall?
hollow cloud
twilit owl
Per tick
frosty oak
ah
soft island
Does the boon trinket drop in shrine of thor the thunder God? Coz I never seen him drop 
stark ridge
really wish galecaller's boon was an 8yard radius rather than a 5. it's so small 😦
frosty oak
is anyone else sad azerite gear doesnt drop frm mythic+ and only from the cache?
stable coyote
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fresh ginkgo
No
sharp pasture
What talents in 60 and 75 row do you guys prefer and tend to run with in m+?
fresh ginkgo
Fuck getting azrite gear from m+
daring imp
iron wire is a must for positioning caster mobs Ç_Ç
daring imp
even on heavy mobs it's nice to soothe a bit the dmg for the tank
sharp pasture
the reduced dmg is not bad either
daring imp
if they can be silenced tho
tight anvil
i mean cant any mob be silenced?
sharp pasture
Not all, a few cant
tight anvil
it just counts as a blanket yeah? they are still silenced you just dont interrupt
sharp pasture
Maybe you are right
sharp pasture
What about bosses?
tight anvil
nah bosses cant be silenced, just interrupted it think
tropic osprey
Is it best to stack finishers into elaborate planning if possible? or spread them out making sure we gain max duration of it for the dots or whats the deal with that?`:)
daring imp
@tight anvil some are immune to silence and don't take the reduced damage probably because it says "silenced mobs deal reduced dmg", unsure if the immune ones deal reduced dmg or not for sure
strange python
Is there a /say macro/wa for Shroud so that my group knows when it is ending?
daring imp
oh you just remembered me
i wanted to make a weakaura for the group i usually run m+ with
strange python
let me know if you find anything that works
amber sequoia
Sorry if a noob question but why in the opener does it mutilate after the second garrote? shouldnt you be 5cp already?
unreal minnow
why is sharpened blade good when stacked but bad when alone ?
fervent beacon
With 3 SS, you're going to be at 3cp, so you mut for 2cp to get 5cp rupture
and I'm also running 3SS
wait the 2nd one
amber sequoia
2 garrotes would be 5(6) cp though
fervent beacon
The only thing I can think of is adds
daring imp
how much fatal damage can cheat death soak on 1 hit?
violet sonnet
I thought it was any amount.
delicate root
14.5k average dps for a +3 
exotic frigate
How good is twist the knife?
rich olive
on m+ how do you play around CT in m+? 3x garrote into rupture or CT?
pseudo shore
without the azerite trait i shouldnt use poisoned knife right?
dense cedar
only to reapply your poison on a target you can't reach
daring imp
@fervent beacon I FRIGGIN CAN'T MAN THEM BRINGING THEM LASERS ON ME ALL THE TIME
dense cedar
which lasers?
daring imp
zekvoz
stable coyote
sup bro's. Another fallen Outlaw here coming to check you guys out due to incoming nerfbat. What is the best pointer you got for someone that isnt documented in a guide or w/e?
lofty sand
what
thats a hard question to answer, we usually put in guides everything that is going to be useful
or else whats the point of a guide?
frosty iron
Hello new to assa in M+ in order which condition do you use Crimson tempest over several rupture ?
dense cedar
I do it at 3+
lofty sand
general agreement is that 3 or more targets in CT
lofty sand
vigor,
frosty iron
vigor for ST only
hollow wren
Is there a consensus on traits for pvp?
lofty sand
I don't need to explain shit, we've been testing and trying everything Sub friend.
you are free to try what you want though
stable coyote
what guide is most up to date then .leo.?
lofty sand
the one in the title of the channel
warm parcel
lofty sand
you can sim a different number of target situations
yes
but a dungeon is not only a single pull
overrall vigor pulls ahead
and thats that.
jolly kraken
should i save vanish for my 2nd exsanguinate?
lofty sand
@lone junco can answer all your rotational questions better than anyone here I think
spiral furnace
Okaaay. How does FoK work for Assassination? Sometimes I get 1 CP, sometimes 5? But I always hit all targets
spiral furnace
Thats why I am asking
Because the guide suggests using it over Mutilate with 2 targets
fervent beacon
if they crit, they will give you cp
fervent beacon
fok itself is 1cp but if they crit, you get extra cp out of it
spiral furnace
@rough knoll im referring to the icyveins guide
fervent beacon
rough knoll
🤔
fervent beacon
Using IV guide 
spiral furnace
is it not up2date? for Sub the icyveins guide is very good. thanks for laughing at me for trying to get information dickhead
winter gale
Everyone speaking about exsang today...TB is still way to go?
fervent beacon
np dude
gloomy stump
Seal Fate Passive, If you crit you get 1 cp
fervent beacon
!singuide
daring imp
@frosty iron for m+ it is very much likely overall CT will be better than poison bomb unless you turn into a poison god the whole dg and proc like a madman, but regarding the 3x shrouded suffocation, you just gotta have it to know how disgusting it is man
fervent beacon
Well the better guide is on the top
spiral furnace
@gloomy stump yeah i figured thangs 😃
gloomy stump
Mutilate hits 2 times can crit twice, FoK can crit as many as you hit
spiral furnace
Yeah I just didnt think FoK is considered "melee"
soft island
hello, anyone have the link on azerite armor and which trait it gives us? I cant seem to find the page with the overview 😦
primal lance
Can someone message me and explain how to add text to my energy bar in elvui? I’ve read a couple guides and haven’t gotten it to work. I just want to know how much energy I have when playing
soft island
and hwere it drops
spiral furnace
@soft island https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-azerite-traits-powers-and-armor scroll to the bottom
Laugh at me for using icyveins i doubledare you mfker
😉
rough knoll
..........
cunning socket
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
soft island
@spiral furnace thanks for your time. Now what I was looking for tho 😦
rose wharf
How is Sin performing in m+ regarding bossdps, aoe burst and longer trash fights with 2/3/4+ targets atm?
soft island
not*
splenditly... single target m0 burst i have like 18K 😄 and on trash with like 3 targets, its insane with 2 + SS traits
on longer ST fights its kinda lower than sub but I kinda like the consistant playstyle
winter gale
I hope after nerfs on reset it will look nicer for us
spiral furnace
Im playing Sin now in M+ and in raid tomorrow to check out the numbas. It seems really ez htho
compared to sub
winter gale
I have 1 SS
daring imp
it is
tho there's no guaranteed full cp fok/sstorm
but energy regen is worlds better
brave lily
Any other fallen outlaw rogues desperately scrambling for replacement azerite traits for deadshot :<?
winter gale
I should then go garrote/rupture/garrote
winter gale
Vendetta/mutilate/toxic blade
daring imp
on m+ trash
winter gale
Envenom
fervent beacon
You just slap your dick on the garrote button tbh
fervent beacon
even on cd, you still slap it
rose wharf
I'm doing 11-12k overall with sub(per m+), so i'm wondering what sin deals overall too at ~350
true warren
what are yall thinking after the 5% outlaw and sub nerfs... assassination gonna be superior?
spice surge
Overall depends heavily on how big you pull
rose wharf
Normal pug pulls
spice surge
I've reached 15k overall with assa, but i have also done it with sub 🤷 Sometimes its 12k
brave lily
@true warren Outlaw going to be awful in raids now.
daring imp
@rose wharf i did a bunch of +5 +6 yesterday and i'd overall 12~15k, depends much if the tank let's you restealth or doesn't screw up pulls
brave lily
5% and 20% deadshot nerf. LUL
delicate root
outlaw will be fine on cleave/adds fights
fervent beacon
DS is ridic, I was hitting 40k crit PS all of the time
stable coyote
i went from 14k overall dps in outlaw to 9k now in sin. I am going to cry
delicate root
idk, sin feels really good to me
brave lily
Of course it was ridic, people were triple traiting it. But spec will heavily suffer now
stable coyote
i think I just cant play it to the fullest atm, not used to dotting everything up
fervent beacon
its almost like Blizzard didn't have alpha/beta to test these
rough knoll
anyone got a beautiful PUT YOUR FUCKING POISONS ON weak aura
rose wharf
I played sin in legion just wondering if it's worth giving up subs utility regarding stuns
daring imp
rough knoll
that'll do
terse pawn
my first 2s arena of the day i forgot to put poisons on
but it was vs shadow priest so it didn't matter
rough knoll
can you send me that ongbak xD
rose wharf
And is it poison bomb or the aoe bleed talent for m+? And is exsang a thing now?
daring imp
i believe i took it from this WA here, just delete the others and you need to put the bruh1.tga on the folder it says https://wago.io/BycCWhX4Q
@rose wharf crimson tempest likely is much better for m+ if your tank isn't afraid of pulling a bit more
winter gale
Luxthos rogue wa's are very nice
daring imp
and exsang, depending on your stats, can sim better than tb, in my case it already does by 100dps
delicate root
Just ran with PB by mistake - I prefer CT
tropic pike
How come your garrote hits for so much :o
terse pawn
3x SS
delicate root
^
daring imp
yea, i can't ever be a fan of pb anymore
tropic pike
SS?
daring imp
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
terse pawn
is it actually still bugged?
daring imp
azerite trait
delicate root
yeah
daring imp
well some reported it still was yesterday so i believe so
terse pawn
so only vanish > garrote after the opener
delicate root
just have to be careful to not reapply after your opener
daring imp
this is under blizz radar so let them keep it that way if it means no nurfz :X
delicate root
until they drop off
tropic pike
So is that an azerite trait?
delicate root
yes
daring imp
yes
delicate root
trash is generally dead after full garrote duration anyway
tropic pike
ah, what's your ilevel?
delicate root
351
daring imp
^ ²
tropic pike
oh?
dreamy quest
do we have dely the 3rd exsang with vanish? (assuming a long fight duration)
rose wharf
Often enough tanks are pulling only 3 or 4 mobs what crippels aoe dps imensly
wind totem
This might be a stupid question but what's the point of having a 3rd Shrouded Suffocation azerite bonus?
wind totem
Right
Knew it was a stupid question
😄
for some reason I only focused on the CP and forgot it increased dmg as well
tropic pike
No such thing as a stupid question :)
terse pawn
the cp doesn't stack anyway right
daring imp
you'll know why it is so good after you get three, trust me
daring imp
well mythic dungeons can only be done once a week, if you don't get lucky, try heroics to get the trait pieces
rich olive
on m+ how do you play around CT in m+? 3x garrote into rupture or CT?
daring imp
and normal fetid devourer is pretty easy to pug
calm barn
aaah 355 galecaller's feelsgood
wind totem
I just dinged 120 yesterday. I got some friends that will help me catch up so boosts are incoming for me 😄
calm barn
why is this chat full of blue guys?
daring imp
@rich olive don't recall who but someone said a bit earlier that ct right after 3rd garrote would be better, no clue as to why
spice surge
5% nerf
alpine hedge
tropic pike
can u get the trait from m+ aswell
calm barn
OHISEE
spice surge
Hence the blues 😉
acoustic flame
We're getting ready
daring imp
i do play the three specs @calm barn , sub just appears before the other two no clue why @_@"
@tropic pike azerite gear doesn't drop from m+, just the weekly chest but that's a whole new rng ...
calm barn
then you need to ask for a neutral role
daring imp
oh
alpine hedge
which has the most digusting color
daring imp
is there sucha thing?? @_@@"
alpine hedge
cough
calm barn
I like to disgust people
acoustic flame
I really like blue though
strange python
Nightly is telling me it's a dps increase to drop my 340 SS+ Heed my Call helm for my new 355 Laser matrix+ Earthlink does that sound accurate?
calm barn
mine is neutral
wind totem
@daring imp that dps meter you linked. Is that single target?
strange python
or is SS not being acounted for correctly?
daring imp
@wind totem it was linked by @delicate root to show his poison bomb damage through a dungeon ( ~3% )
wind totem
So AoE. Got it
fresh ginkgo
Lol my deadly poison is never that high
daring imp
@strange python maybe for pure single target, the sim is correct, no way in hell i'd ever trade my 3x SS in ANY mythic+ i'd do in the future
fervent beacon
you'd be a fucking fool to trade 3 SS in +
daring imp
^
fervent beacon
its like asking to cut off your big dick
daring imp
ayy
woven bane
do you play m+ with PB or with tempest cuz everyone says smth else
soft island
dropped 360 canon ball runner trinket... man does it suuuuux
daring imp
i'll be running CT all day today, and based on what people that run CT told me i'll love it for more aoe dmg
mint osprey
Am I understanding this right? Do not apply any garottes to any 4th targets whatsoever until SS garottes have run full duration?
soft island
yes
soft island
or vanish after 3rd garote and continue aplying until 6
crimson swift
may i ask what total damage you guys usually have as sin in +5 mythics?
soft island
yes, when they nerf SS
daring imp
i ran a lot of +5 +6 yesterday and was doing 12~15k, depends on wether the tank gave you enough window to restealth or did shitty pulls or not (351 ilvl)
soft island
@crimson swift I had 13,9K total in shrine 5 +1 with 349 il
tropic pike
I'm sitting around 5-8k at 345 ilevel :/
candid phoenix
mint osprey
Yea coming here from outlaw
tropic pike
Really not sure why my dps is so low
mint osprey
Trying to get a handle on things early
olive peak
true
cinder palm
I’m usually about 13-14k overall
soft island
honestly... if I had good tank , doing 2 runs with outlaw and assa now I would have probably more total dmg as outlul
cinder palm
With lust I can fuck on bosses with 3 SS
runic kernel
im not sure whether to play sin or outlaw for pvp
tropic pike
How are you guys pulling above 10k? Are u all on 3 ss?
soft island
probably outlaw for the utility, but spec doesnt matter till like 2200 so ?D¨
mint osprey
Sin for PvP for sure
soft island
play what you enjoy
daring imp
@soft island do you have 3x ss?
crimson swift
im usually at around 11-13k with 2xss
runic kernel
both lol
soft island
No I have 2x SS and DD
mint osprey
Outlaw got neutered in pvp
cinder palm
But on bosses with lust it’s ez to get like 20k
exotic frigate
Is exang better for ST then poison bomb? Or is Exang for multi target?
mint osprey
Bte and Deadshot do less damage to people
soft island
not true, I play 3 snake eyes in pvp and its godlike and wasnt practicly touched except 5 percent
mint osprey
Couple with the nerfs on Sept 11
daring imp
exsang? you mean CT? @exotic frigate
tropic pike
sept 11!
soft island
I am running as TB tho, coz it sims 300dps higher for me
soft island
with 3 SS it would be higher probably BUT I have good stats for it kinda...
mint osprey
@daring imp you run exeang over tb?
deft locust
yes most people are running exsang atm
it's better for ST and MUCH better for m+ priority killing
daring imp
been trying to get the hang of it back again for the last three hours
mint osprey
Oh had no idea
daring imp
not quite there yet but it's a work in progress
mint osprey
Will be good for infested I take
grim wolf
for exsang when do we clip envenom and when do we clip EP?
soft island
exa is easy... you will get it quick
sinful lotus
Hello everyone, i was checking out Sin rogues on Warcraft logs, and found one that ranked pretty high on Fetid. When i checked his/her armory, they were rocking 3x Sharpened Blades. Anyone know why?
soft island
coz its quite decent trait?:D
crimson swift
thats noobe, right?
soft island
it got nerfed tho
daring imp
@soft island yea i mean after the opening, it's quite easy for trash packs but i still don't* get the timing to sync it all on bosses Ç_Ç
crimson swift
kk, we could tag him so he can justify his choice ^^
soft island
@daring imp basily if less than 2 trash packs remaining, hold exa, 3 - 4 packs, hold vanish for boss
or dont hold it anddo shit dps on boss and then good dps on trash.... doesnt matter much
daring imp
haha i meant on the 2nd vendetta/vanish/exsang on bosses
soft island
in low keays you can use it on cd practicaly... it depends on tyranical weeks in higher keys... and by the time u will get it anyway
daring imp
yea just gotta practice a bit more
glad shuttle
!commands
spice surge
/cast [talent:6/3] Exsanguinate; [talent:6/2] Toxic Blade
easy, take longest CD and hold it for that, and its vanish and vendeta... so do 2x exa and hold for big pewpew
deft locust
are we talking m+?
daring imp
@sinful lotus it's great for single target, also helps out that you have downtime on that boss, the trait hels a tiny bit on that hectic run around the whole room fight
spice surge
@sudden canyon
sudden canyon
thanks
delicate root
KB 
sudden canyon
oh yea
deft locust
if we are talking m+, you expend your cooldowns off refresh unless you know it won't be up for a boss again, and you need it for the boss
sudden canyon
its TB
exotic frigate
Is toxic blade for ST and Exang for multi target?
daring imp
exsang is also on one target only
soft island
no, its on what you sim the highest
daring imp
castable* on one target only
exotic frigate
Thank you ever so
soft island
you should basicly fit 5x ish TB into rotata before your cds are UP again, talking vanish and vendettas
couting the opener too... so 4x without opener
you will hold vanish and vendetta for like 8 seconds before TB comes back up... if u wanna hold TB and not big cds, you will fit it in only 3x and then hold TB for 18 seconds
spiral furnace
Can someone explain to me why Garrote -> Rupture -> Garrote is the opener?
mighty island
Has anyone had any good usage of wound poison in bg's? Seems like the minor wound talent is the way to go, but i feel like im pushing through heals a lot
spiral furnace
Doensnt Garrote refresh / overwrite itself?
mighty island
yes
you get 24s instead of 18 and theres a lot of combo point buildingf (poisoned wire for example)
sinful lotus
@daring imp Ty for the answer 😃
soft island
I think u mean iron wire
mighty island
no, there's azerite traits that give you crit to mutilate off garrotes
soft island
oh
strange python
Ok exange build for m5s is a joke. Finished ST bosses on 28k dps
mighty island
something like 900 crit rating on next 2 muts with my build
mighty island
exsang sucks, it's really finnicky too
i used to love it but honestly it's just soooo easy for it to be disrupted by mechanics
spiral furnace
Any answer on the garrote rupture garrote opener? i dont get it
just for the CP from the azerite trait?
strange python
@spiral furnace subterfuge means it does more damage especially when using shrouded suff
soft island
you us that to maximalize garrote from subterfuge buff, if u use it once it gives u 18s gartoe, and 2x its 24s garrote, more dps
spice surge
With shrouded your highest damage ability is garrote (by a pretty wide margin too)
having 24 seconds of garrote is better than 18 seconds
delicate gull
When using exsanguinate in the normal rotation do we need to reapply full bleeds to get max damage or does it make the bleeds tick faster even if applied after?
spice surge
If you apply a bleed after exsang it gets overwriten (ie removes exsang)
Which is bad
You want as lengthy bleeds as possible before you exsang
jaunty lotus
How do you dps in dungeons as ass?
delicate gull
So is it worth it then to refresh even above pandemic?
jaunty lotus
Do I just multidot everything and fan?
delicate gull
Yeah you garrote 3 targets from stealth, rupture everything, fon envenom
With SS
I guess you would still do it with subterfuge and no SS tho
jaunty lotus
that's what i was doing but it didn't look very effective
I have 1 SS, did 3 garrotes, rupture + exang on the last
mighty island
for weak trash you want to switch to marked for death and spam that + envenom + fok
but mythic+trash, usually rupture+garrote EVERYTHING
anyone have feeling on wound poison? still not as good as Deadly in pvp right?
cinder palm
You can take that pvp talent that integrates your wound into deadly
Deadly is best for deeps though
stable coyote
to add to aikurou's questions. When simming for m+, do I use 5+ targets? cause only then is where crimson tempest becomes useful
gaunt girder
sudden ravine
Almost as bad as Vantus Rune : G'hunn
crimson swift
@stable coyote cant answer that question, but dont rely on sims only in that case. ct is reliable on demand aoe, while pb is not
autumn bloom
CT is more damage than rupture at 3+ targets.