But people don’t have optimized gear, so everything will bounce around
#assassination
strange python
how's it better if it sims for less?
mossy hazel
What's different in optimization for exsang?
obsidian loom
This bus driver sucks. I’m late for work. Goddammit Obama
mossy hazel
I feel like reading exsang is crit > haste? Is that right?
strange python
sim yourself for more accurate answer
mossy hazel
Working on it, but it takes a while.
waxen arch
So How is the performance from sin rogues in uldir?
trail otter
better than expected imo
mossy hazel
Hmm, exsang still places haste highest for me, which I'm already stacking, and it simms about 200 lower than TB
verbal sorrel
ye same
knotty dew
top sin ranks in Uldir use TB too (if I watched it well)
mossy hazel
I will say I was seeing a lot of exsang at the to pof the ranks first night, but I haven't checked again recently
Yea it's pretty much all TB again now
vernal sinew
Guys if i want To try exsang build, Wich rotation is better?
strange python
How about you follow what the APL does
vernal sinew
What is APL ?
grizzled harness
Sim yourself and check what the sim's rotation was I guess
vernal sinew
So i can Sim my Self.... But, I dont need it .. i jusk ask for a rotation with exansg
grizzled harness
Well that's the point
vernal sinew
Explain me pls
grizzled harness
The simulation would have the best rotation there is
vernal sinew
So i need to Sim, a choise from TB or Exsang? And than high Sim win?
grizzled harness
If you were Sin and Outlaw and didn't mind, what spec would you chose for Uldir's encounters ?
grizzled harness
Hm just sim yourself with exsang
That was a general question for the channel
I wonder where Sin shines with all those adds to burst
I had to raid Outlaw yersterday but I miss making shit bleed :/
scenic saddle
!talents
grizzled harness
!guide
delicate crater
Simming for TB vs Exang, with 3x SS traits or 3x SB traits, using full crit or full haste. TB is always a little higher for me
sadly, my Sub build with 3x SB traits is 900dps higher
and my Outlaw build with 3x Deadshot is 1000 dps higher
all else being equal (same ilvl weapons)
valid dawn
Any good assa WA's?
mossy hazel
!wa
Are the command not working?
There was a pin with a bunch of them, don't see them now though
valid dawn
elder cypress
!wa
heavy nymph
literally use the search function at the top right for them
jovial kite
@delicate crater wanna link me your exsang sims ?
that being said then ur all good for balance patch next tuesday :3
delicate crater
Yes 1 sec
bold ice
Is there for sure a balance patch coming?
jovial kite
yes
delicate crater
solid nova
delicate crater
TB
so, Exang is actually higher now
interesting. It has always been 100 or so behind
no they are both nightly. It's via Top Gear since I can't really afford to reforge my Deadshots every time I want to try out Sin.
lone junco
@vernal sinew if you run a sim in raidbots, you can pull down the action list and see what the opener it. It depends on if you have SS garrote traits.
yeah. exsang and vendetta and vanish were desync in the APL.
they are now all 3 aligned around 2:20.
then vendetta vanish at 420 620
strange python
@lone junco love exsangue , i will sim it with all 3 aligned, must be great !
somber egret
Benched for ghuun because 26 people and only 4 healers. Feelsbadman. Was looking forward to trying exang last night
somber egret
Raid leader scared to kick the bads. And I didn’t need gear. Ie I got benched
trail otter
ah
versed osprey
somber egret
Haha yes that’s what I’ll say from now on
I wasn’t part of the basketball groups either so was easier to kick as well
It’s alright I ran underott m0 to try for ss chest. Rolled on it even and still no luck
vernal sinew
@lone junco oh u Mean on raidbot when calculate during the percentage? He wrote a rotation?
strange python
I think 3 SS + exsang and aligned CD > 3 SS + TB for ST encounter
vernal sinew
And i have only 2 ss trait
lone junco
Exsang Vedetta and vanish have a wonky relationship this tier.
2ss is fine.
3 is better
strange python
do you guys pool for EP?
vernal sinew
But why my Sim is lower than other in this discord at same ilvl...
trail otter
cld be enchants
strange python
Its ok if you dont loose a vendetta overall i guess
vapid moth
For example I have 6 gem slots
strange python
Haste may loose weight with exangue btw
vapid moth
You might have 0
lone junco
@strange python pool for EP is the wrong way to put it. You clip rupture and env so that EP is not wasted.
mellow cypress
Outlaw boi here. How are you all liking sin? I’m gonna read pins and dive into some m+ as sin tonight
brave locust
you guys run assa in m+?
strange python
Sub < 5 and Sin> 5 for my part
brave locust
tried sub the other night. and i gotta say. i really dont like it 😄
brave locust
ss?
vernal sinew
@lone junco this
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bK5TGNhXZdoDA7cQKka1q8
strange python
How do you see this page with rotation from your sim ?
lone junco
@vernal sinew looks like that azerite fortification is not there. if that is what you meant by "azerite trait"
strange python
Ty noobe 🙏
flat laurel
3x SS = Exsang? Uldir raid
lone junco
i believe so.
bleed. exsang = faster bleed.
the previous sims had a desync of vendetta vanish and exsang that made it suck.
river citrus
How come we only get an axe from conquest when i dont play that spec?
hollow stone
Once you get 500 conq you get a quest and choose whichever 345 weapon you want
potent forge
Exsang or poison for m+
marble hemlock
id say exsang
seems a lot better for singletarget and helps on aoe aswell by giving you a faster ramp up
wide cypress
trinket sims list?
marble hemlock
potent forge
Is there a guide updated for exsang
marble hemlock
just sim for the statweights, the opener is described in one of the recent tc-updates
stuck shuttle
sim it , only way to get a good idea
hollow stone
In general, ct is preferred for m+. But if youre running with high aoe classes (like fmage, warr, dh) then its less valuable
hollow stone
Yea. Its generally going to be your go to
deft locust
the only time you'd take pb is tyrannical and your team just can't kill a boss
hollow stone
I dont run it when we do low keys because i have so much aoe in my group
And they die like half way through the ct bleed
deft locust
yeah as we gear it'll become less value In low keys
lone junco
I'll look at 2ss 1fok. Next time. With FOK trait. But it really depends on pack sizes.
hollow stone
Yea. Depends on how big your tank pulls too, for sure
deft locust
but if you are constantly pushing content ct is the talent for m+, for whoever is asking
hollow stone
Yes
deft locust
o.o
deft locust
fun
lone junco
2ss.
deft locust
sin feels pretty good right now
lone junco
at times.
I love outlaw. But micro managing ui makes it really hard for me to raid call.
torn hinge
how is the basic rotation with Ct on 4-5 mobs pull? never used it
true nexus
@lone junco what do you have to micromanage?
torn hinge
@lone junco ty
lone junco
I'm playing 1snake 2ds. Plenty of ui time there.
I can only do so many apm while doing mechanics while calling raid.
delicate crater
I have 2 AZ sets for Sin right now: 3x SS and 3x SB. They actually sim very close single target
lone junco
So on hard content I lean sin
SB is neat when you need a hot swap.
Throw a slime etc.
Where SS punishes with the 2min cd reliance.
But good for st boss or cleave at open/vanish.
Knife throw an egg seems good On devoured.
strange python
What is SB? The stacking throwing knife?
delicate crater
so does SS lose significant power outside of the vanish CD window?
lone junco
SS has zero benefit outside of subterfuge.
Garrote from stealth is god. Else zero.
It is best imo Just need to understand how to use your vanish for the fight.
delicate crater
so for AoE packs, it really only boosts 2 targets (with Vanish)?
lone junco
Like mother vuln phase. Please god do not vanish vendetta 40sec before vuln phase.
Aoe is 3 tabbed garrotes.
6 if you vanish.
spice surge
Boosts garrote is an understatement, its like 4-5x stronger
stuck shuttle
what mother vuln phase?
nimble gulch
what ur overall burst on a boss ?? in st
lone junco
Opener is prob 30k normal.
delicate crater
I've been reluctant to reforge my Deadshots to try the 3x SS build ( I have 3x SB on different gear) but I'm tempted to try it
lone junco
It's just gold.
lone junco
Way way better than the relic system that destroys.
stuck shuttle
My opening burst goes to about 30k as well on a good pull
lone junco
G r g vendetta mut rupture exsang. ............ vanish G g r.
strange python
Noobe you prefer to run exsang on ST?
lone junco
@spice surge Not sure why they fixed the exang apl right away for you. I was talking about the desync for like a week. Lol
I feeeel. That since SS is so insanely strong that exsang must be viable. Tb buffs env and poisons.
Turns out it is better.
The 45sec cd alignment with2min staggered CDs on the open will be the difference between gold parse and blue.
If you nail 220 420 and 620 alignment. It will be just fine.
opaque grotto
Yeah the only time I beat the BM hunters and locks in my group is if I can use vanish/vendetta immediately when I get them
If I have to delay it kinda sucks
torn hinge
@lone junco with exang you should always try to align vend + vanish + exang or just focus on vanish + vend after the opener?
abstract crescent
Is it me or we get energy starved after our first rotation in pvo?
As outlaw i never have issues
lofty sand
With 15% or so haste I don't have any problems anymore, just don't be a button masher
hollow stone
Havent had a problem with energy all xpac. Make sure you maintain bleeds, make sure you run vigor talent and then get as much haste as you can
And remember, as long as youre not capping energy, youre not wasting dps
lone junco
@torn hinge timing puts a solo exsang around 50sec. And 1:35. The 3rd one will delay vendetta to align with vanish around 220.
lone junco
That 220 timing is rupture then vendetta vanish g g r exsang.
hollow stone
Thats very low haste
lofty sand
Well thats certainly low haste
lone junco
Eww
nimble gulch
so when do i use exang in opener
lone junco
@torn hinge when you have time. Run a sim. Check the apl. Look at open. Then scroll to 220 time.
nocturne gate
gar rup gar ven mut rup ex
lone junco
Need to see it. So you get the vendetta delay.
Busy at work. Else I would find a wcl timeline view.
torn hinge
@lone junco k ty, and if you use Tb would you still start with g r g? i have been doing g g r
stuck shuttle
no
nimble gulch
XD wow i do less dmg with exsang
stuck shuttle
u do G R G on exsang because you're delaying Vendetta
u dont wanna delay vendetta without exsang
lone junco
Exs sim requires nightly. It uses 2 or 3ss. It scales with haste.
nimble gulch
ima stay with tb
lone junco
Any openers with SS does g r g
abstract crescent
is exsang good now?
crimson swift
my sims actually show a 6dps difference between exsang and tb xD
lone junco
Great.
abstract crescent
lmao
crimson swift
feels good to have the choice
crimson swift
was actually thinking about doing that, but i didnt have warrior buff, so i was like "nah not gonna get it anyway"
stuck shuttle
same
lone junco
Tbh I don't care what people do. SS synergy is nice.
calm barn
head and shoulders in a row 😃
slender hare
Oh my lol
safe matrix
You didn't beat mizuxe 
safe matrix
I blame you, put him in the ground
stuck shuttle
yes
crimson swift
wait, what other poison is there?
sullen hollow
theres the non-lethal
but if I use nonlethals
wont that decrease the chance of lethal
stuck shuttle
u dont need the non-lethals in pve tbh
sullen hollow
No thats what I thought aswell
I just seems dumb to even wanna apply them
but maybe there was something to it
slender hare
I always just apply deadly and crippling
crimson swift
oh wow, i actually completely forgot that wound existed :D
stuck shuttle
i remember some time in legion
lone junco
Can you just drag mother to 3rd. And spirit link the wall damage and dh stun warrior meme cleave the 20ads?
gilded seal
Is the SS buff supposed to activate from shadowmeld? I was doing it last night in raid and getting the benefit. Not sure if it’s intended or not.
lone junco
Doubt.
gilded seal
Well I definitely get the CPs not to sure about the damage component
safe matrix
Shadowmeld is really finicky, it allows access to stealth abilities
And it buffs some feral stealth abilities iirc
slender hare
Yeah buffs Rake
gilded seal
Because as night elf you have the potential to get off triple buffed garottes at the start of the fight
abstract crescent
so you guys run 1 ss and 2 sharpened for pvp or nah?
tranquil dust
guys does popping a trinket that increases my crit strike
during bleeds do anything?
or would i have
to either apply new bleeds
or use it before
i apply bleeds
for the stat increase to matter
spice surge
@lone junco It was primarily to fix the opener, then while they were at it they looked at alignements
But idk, guess i just posted when they were looking in tc-research
safe matrix
All buffs are dynamic so your current bleeds get the effect
Especially if it's statsq
The two things that snapshot are nightstalker and subterfuge
tranquil dust
so more or less
i just wanna not cast the 4th garrote
just 3 in stealth with subterfuge
and let them run dry right
safe matrix
Hopefully it's fixed tuesday^^
lone junco
If you must do 6x garrote. I would only use vanish on 6 elites.
lone junco
- Ct. Vanish 3 more.
tranquil dust
hrm
lone junco
Or 3 rupture.
lone junco
It's really good. Just make sure you have vanish for the boss.
tranquil dust
right
shadow token
how is sin without ss traits?
lone junco
Wait.
shadow token
=]
lone junco
You can run scent and tab ruptures.
If stuff lives long enough to get out 6+. You'll be bombing out FOK.
2scent 1fok.
For 5man
shadow token
i wanted to try it out and saved every azerite piece but i dont have any ss. i have 2x double dose and dagger in the back
lone junco
Raid would be the knife throw build.
shadow token
but it sims 1.2k less than my sub
shadow token
i've been using that for pvp lmao
lone junco
I don't have enough to play with it. But I've seen 150k knife crits on vuln mobs.
shadow token
yea i've critted 75k on a player so i could see that
valid dawn
are there any assa guides specifically for uldir?
chilly apex
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
rain breach
is it possible to create a macro like in vanilla that will cast Blindside and if blindside not working (rdy) it casts Multi?
tulip wedge
no
hollow stone
Are you sure, yawn?
If you macro to use blindside prior to using mut, since blindside is lower energy or free, would that not work?
Havent tested it at all
Or would it just never use mut? Lol
rain breach
don't know much of macros's but im sure i got one of these on vanilla
but a lot of changed since this days
hollow stone
Like a:
/cast blindside
/cast mutilate
Very simple macro. Not sure if it work tho
Blindside didnt exist in vanilla
rain breach
yea i know
hollow stone
It was introduced in cata i think
rain breach
i talked about that i had in vanilla a macro like that, not exactly a blindside macro
hollow stone
A lot of the "if x then y" macros no longer work because there were classes playable with 1 button that would give you a perfectly optimized rotation just spamming 1
rain breach
hmm sure, only was an idea
hollow stone
Yea. Its worth testing. Try that super simple macro i noted and report back :p
bold ice
What are the daggers to aim for for assassination now? Is the mother dagger good?
verbal sorrel
the ones which give the stats you need mose
usually haste + crit
unless your mastery weighs higher
than crit
bold ice
Gotcha, not at home to sim at the moment. Will check when there
past nexus
Anyone of yall got a WA for SB?
coral cosmos
Anyone using the PvP daggers for PvE? Just now saw a rogue on forums who put in an hour or two of 3v3 last night and ended up with two 360 daggers (haste/crit)
tough violet
So they have agility primary stat? Don’t see why not. Unless they are just stamina. But the way weapons have been going 360 ilvl is probably a big upgrade for most people
Do* they have
coral cosmos
bold ice
Didn't think there was a difference in PvP gear now, I'm sure the dagger is pro
coral cosmos
he has 44 games played
tough violet
Geez yes I would use those lol. Socket too
coral cosmos
well actually he said the OH was originally 345 (conquest pts cap reward) and then he used the combatants stone upgrade to turn it 360. But he got the other 360 with socket from rng win
trail otter
that's absolutely the luckiest shit ive seen
tough violet
I got one 340 item for a slot I already had a 355 in. The rest were 325-330 items from strong ice
Strongboxes
coral cosmos
"Challenger combatant stone (upgrades piece of gear to 360ilvl)"
not quite sure where that came from
coral cosmos
I think that once you hit certain title ranges (with rating), you get the upgrade stone as a reward
trail otter
im 2k rn
coral cosmos
Because the title ranges are immediate now VS end of season
trail otter
challenger is lower than that
im rival
if u can find it on wowhead or somethin i'll suck yo dick
cuz i really wanna know what it is
coral cosmos
By the way, just capping conquest points this week will net you a 345 weapon
strange python
you guys like PotW or Internal Bleeding in M+?
coral cosmos
I like using PotW
trail otter
where'd u get ur info on the upgrade maztao?
daring imp
^ me too, silence also helps positioning caster mobs
lasting for 6s i think, helps a lot
keen hound
so exsang is ahead now eh?
(saw discussion on it last night as I was heading to bed now sim shows exsang slightly ahead. .5%)
lone junco
@coral cosmos oh shit. I need some of that dagger
@strange python I use prey for prio adds. Stealth garrote open Vendetta exang into kidney.
If it's gottta die fast. 👌
vernal walrus
then is exsa better than tb?
nimble gulch
they are both good
tb give more poisen dmg
exsa give more bleed
😄 im still up to 26k burst with tb
plain thistle
😄
keen hound
ex shows higher for me by .5% but it owuld def be lower dps for me b/c I don't know how to use exsang efficiently 😂
gotta practice before swapping
alpine pilot
how do we open now on ST with vanish?
the sim apl is doing garrote rupture garrote on open
is that right?
safe matrix
Yep
nimble gulch
with exsan or tb
safe matrix
It's in the FAQ
Basically you want to double garrote in stealth/subt so you get the extended buffed garrote
alpine pilot
TB
nimble gulch
then 2x garrote then rup
alpine pilot
OH really?, so during vanish, u wanna double garrote too?
interesting
thanks guys
nimble gulch
vendetta tb
nimble gulch
anf then u do the rest
thorn crater
but applying a DP earlier makes sense right?
safe matrix
Yep, depends on if you have shrouded suffocation or not
safe matrix
This change was theory crafted a couple days ago
alpine pilot
oh sorry, ill look at pins like a good rogue
safe matrix
So it's pretty recent
thorn crater
@nimble gulch ok hwo do u double garrote in the first window after casting garrot rup? its only a 3 gcd window. i assume u mean during vanish?
nimble gulch
no u just do garrote garrot then rupture
thorn crater
dont u garrote rup garrot?
nimble gulch
then u use vendetta tb mutilate and then envenom
safe matrix
Or garrote rupture garrote depending on combo points
nimble gulch
u uses 2 garrote after each other
cause with subterfuge u get 0 cd on garrote in stealth
thorn crater
ure contradicting one another @safe matrix @nimble gulch . we are always talking about a pure opener with no previous CP
im confused 😛
nimble gulch
yea+
safe matrix
It depends on the combo points
nimble gulch
0 cp
safe matrix
Not contradicting
nimble gulch
u do garrote garrote then rup
thorn crater
how does it depends on combo points? u get 3
if u have remaining from a previous pull ofc it changes
safe matrix
If you do it from vanish though and you need to refresh both bleeds for whatever reason
And you didn't start at zero points
thorn crater
didnt mean during vanish, got it now
u dont need to use a rup during the vanish though right? no more snapshotting of it
thorn crater
what keeps happening to me is i get a crit on muti after vendetta and i have to waste the TB combo points
or i will envenom before TB which is a nono
i think it is because i was using gar rup gar
and ended up with 3 CP
nimble gulch
Yea
thorn crater
unless u gar rup gar muti env and then vendetta tb muti
that way u have envenom buff on during vendetta and tb opening
dark token
nimble gulch
what i do atm is i use garote 2x then rupture and try to push in vendetta and tb while im still in stealth caus that boosts the dps like hell
lone junco
G r g
thorn crater
danoobe agrees with me 😛
nimble gulch
But why should i use GRG makes no sense
thorn crater
i dno i feel like the envenom buff during TB app;lication is useful
then after TB runs off u reapply rup
and then vanish for the pandemic rup
usually is sth like gar env gar
nimble gulch
Grg givesu only a 2 cp rup but using 2x garrote gives u 4 cp rup
thorn crater
or gar gar env
3 CP
rup
lasts up to the end of TB
we are talking SS traits here
nimble gulch
yup
nimble gulch
so then u have a 5 cp rup even better
cause i never had any problem using garrote twice before using rup
hollow stone
Pretty sure with triple ss your opener is: gar gar rup mut vend tb mut/env (depending on cps) and then normal rotation
Vanish would be similar but depending on your rupture timing you may not need to refresh rupture
This gives you a 5cp rupture on your 3rd gvd
Gcd
hollow stone
And as far as i know. The reason to g r g instead of g g r is if using xsang so you can get a 5cp rupture + pandemic (whatever its called so you can "clip" dots)
And have the heaviest hitting xsang you can in your vend window
lone junco
Pretty sure it was similar with tb. If you have at least 1ss.
Mid block vanish was. Vanish g g.
The only concern with a low cp rupture with TB is that you want it to extend beyond your TB window.
stuck shuttle
gotta love those sub rogues coming in here to flex epeen
ripe geyser
Guys how are assa working atm in Uldir
Got some gucci traits for it
Only seen rogues play assa on Mythrax
strange python
decent
strange python
decent as in play it if you enjoy it, it's not bad
ripe geyser
kk thx man
lilac coral
all three rogue specs are better than most classes lol
hollow stone
I beat our sub rogue consistently in uldir normal and 3/8 heroic. Maybe he's just bad tho 🙃
So its definitely competitive
Like everyone else said lol
strange python
unless you're in a high end guild it doesn't matter
smoky prism
so is 3 SS pretty much the best azerite you can get
hollow stone
Is it sit boss and multi garrote when possible? Lol
lone junco
Deadshot is better imo.
stuck shuttle
lol
young oxide
U start from right and garrote 3 eyes
then u vanish
garrote one more eye
then young dark
use vendetta and burst him
hollow stone
3 ss feels the most fun. I hate the "stacking" to big boom mechanic that blizz seems obsessed with
lone junco
SS is strong.
young oxide
when second dark barigin is being cast
lone junco
Good wang for sure.
young oxide
go garrote/rupture all adds
And make sure ur vendetta/vanish comes up for every stun
45k burst
hollow stone
Fed is basically explaining affl lock :p
young oxide
And like 20k constant damage
Yeah haha
and use fan of knives as much as possible during tendrils
ez clap papi
hollow stone
Ayyyy
lilac coral
i'd enjoy just 1 SS trait
young oxide
i find the damage quite enjoyable tbh
lilac coral
yeah, had it leveling and at 120, poof
stuck shuttle
still trying to get SS on my shoulders
stuck shuttle
haven't found a good piece yet
hollow stone
Yes @smoky prism
hollow stone
Yea. Feels good. Especially on those 3 packs in m+ 😎
young oxide
i don't play assa at all but for open content tho
just wanted to try bleed stacking ghuun for fun sake
hollow stone
Well. It seemed to work out!
young oxide
Yeah def did
1.62 m dmg with 30 casts
assa also makes the adds quite easier
considering the looooooong silence
if u get wire
thorn crater
@young oxide havent seen ghun fight yet, i assume the eyes have enough hp for garrote to run off
prime cosmos
what is the ideal azerite traits for asn rogues atm
daring imp
if you happen to have sharpened blades for PVP, i'd recommend testing it out
strange python
smoky prism
does any1 have suggestion on where i can read about what stat weights are/ have a quick explianation
stuck shuttle
check the guide that is pinned here
Stat weights mean how much a certain stat will increase your dps
so if your agi stat weight is 1.8, each point of Agi gives you ~1.8 dps
not exactly but thats the general gist of it
smoky prism
oh, ty
tender walrus
Does anyone have link for azerite trait dps sims please?
stuck shuttle
young oxide
@thorn crater Yeah there's enough time for it to tick all of, being troll helps the burst alot aswell
smoky prism
does overwhelming power stack?
i just got shoulders with SS and overwhelming power but my head piece already has overwhelming power so should I just pick the the next best trait?
prime cosmos
curious what is stat weights for pvp, mastery >vers>crit>haste?
young oxide
overwhelming stacks, but it's bad comapred with hmc
gaunt trench
what's a minimum good amount of haste?
hollow stone
Hmc fo lyfe (said every dps spec)
Id say minimum 10% but you want literally as much haste as possible at this time in the xpac
Havent looked but pvp stat weights should be in the pvp channel in this disc
dense yarrow
i got 20% crit and 15% haste, i feel like my crit is really low
hollow stone
All our secondaries feel low atm. Youre not alone my friend
dense yarrow
i mean i feel good in m+. but in raid... omfg
hollow stone
Yeah man. It sucks getting excited for a 3cp mut lol
And the raid gear haste barely and haste leather
dense yarrow
mine is 2cp most of time lol
hollow stone
Time to live in m+
dense yarrow
xD true
hollow stone
Yea exactly. Get fired up when you get that 3cp proc
strange python
I have a world rank 5 for mother. 100 for ilevel bracket. Heroic.
dense yarrow
xDDDDD
hollow stone
Careful repro, somebody might report for self promotion
lone junco
Quality boss time. And a full vanish vendetta for p3 I guess. Were there a lot of dead people?
hollow stone
Also mother is a very skewed fight for dps
strange python
@lone junco yep and yep
lone junco
Nice.
strange python
I am liking assa. Still may end up going sub depending on harder content/gear scaling
lone junco
ok everyone die so I can murder this boss.
hollow stone
Stick with it! Keep our parses competitive. We dont want all the good rogues as sub. Thats boring ^_^
Lol
strange python
Just looted 360 ilvl Vanquished Tendril of Ghuun, is it better than my 340 Lustrous golden plumage ?
hidden fulcrum
Has SS been fixed yet? regarding garroting the 4th mob?
hollow stone
Sim it, break. And yea it is @hidden fulcrum
stuck shuttle
that is why sin will scale well
hidden fulcrum
Thanks Apple 😃
strange python
@hollow stone Im in raid ^^ was just to know if i equip it directly !
prisma pond
Still only 1 guild cleared heroic?
young oxide
we're currently wiping on mother :/
hollow stone
Do a quick look at trinket rankings on bloodmallet inbetween pulls. That'll give a good idea. Its probably better than a 340 vers trinket but i dont wanna say yes and be providing you poor info
@stuck shuttle it wasnt working last night. I dont see any hotfix notes either
past nexus
What trinkets do you guys recommend using?
hollow stone
Bloodmallet
vestal wren
raidbots
prime quail
where do those drop ?
lone junco
Blood mallet is a good sounding trinket tbh.
stuck shuttle
it is lol
cinder lotus
stuck shuttle
fathoms > dice
stuck shuttle
i dont think so
lone junco
Use top gear to sim a trinket collection.
stuck shuttle
mallet says 355 dice < 355 fathoms
lone junco
Sim in st. And 6T40 sec for m+
Use that sim.
Bloodmallet is a guide. Sim using your own traits and gear.
stuck shuttle
that too
lone junco
General trinket stacks are very bland profiles.
I forgot that mastery buffs bleeds now. Wonder if it is going to scale faster than haste over time.
lone junco
@jovial kite have you done stat graphs using 3ss yet?
mossy hazel
Wow really?
lone junco
I only care about 3Ss currently wrt stats.
prime quail
@stuck shuttle where do those trinkets drop ?
stuck shuttle
those aren't trinkets
raidbots is a sim
blood mallet is a general info site for trinkets/traits
hollow stone
Sorry, i was being silly. Thanks for clarifying for them, heck
And yea. Mast and crit are literally equal for me in my current gear too
I think mast will outperform crit in the long run once our crit rating is at a "soft cap". Dont ask me what that cap is tho
hollow stone
Yea. For sure
lone junco
When 45%-74% of our damage is garrote. All we care about is buffing that.
dull root
did fathoms get a nerf or something?
prisma pond
No why
dull root
its on the bottom of the charts on bloodmallet lol
dull root
I understand the ilvl but I just thought it was higher than 919 on the charts
deft locust
I believe it's always been that way
after the single nerf
it was nerfed once
about uhh
dull root
I may be remembering it pre nerf
prisma pond
Two I think
dull root
Yeah I think two
nocturne gate
is there any way to see how much dmg exang dealt ?
main blaze
Exsang doesnt do damage
prisma pond
Haven't looked at it in a while. But I'm pretty sure it doesnt deal damage itself. Just speeds up your bleeds
So your garrote does it's full damage in half the time
deft locust
you can look at a real time dps chart to see your burst
but that's about it for exsang
other than overall
you can tick count rupture and garrpte over 2 min and compare to not using it. but that's a pretty archaic way and not accurate at all
best way is to just sim it
strange python
@hollow stone So I lose 150 dps if I put my 360 trinket instead of my 340
fun fact
moire 200 dps tyho
tho*
keen spruce
warm parcel
tbf I still havent really felt ct
Maybe Ill just swap ct out as recommendation for pb
warm parcel
Im talking m+
weak isle
m+ its meh
ripe raven
what traits should i go for in pvp on sin?
hollow stone
@strange python that's brutal! Thats why i didnt want to commit to saying yes haha
hazy pebble
warm parcel
naa
I still dont see the point in ct
Such a hassle for so little gain
Even with 15 accidental pulls
And I can get up to 45 crit with trinket
marble hemlock
CT is ~12-15% of my overall damage in any g iven key
running 2ss+1fok trait
pb might be worth if we're multirupturing a lot more on higher keys with triple scent traits, but that cuts into singletarget way too heavily and i think even in that case HB might just turn out to be better than PB
terse drum
!SS
hollow escarp
I should keep up with the news, didn't knew Shrouded Suffocation is bugged and I just got my 3rd azerite piece xD
worldly seal
Outlaw deletion
tranquil dust
boys
my dmg spikes downs o hard
after my inital gcd's
cant keep it even up near sims
not surewhats going wrong
prisma pond
Couple things. Sims always sim with full raid buffs, potions, flask, list etc. You can go into settings and turn them off and you'll see closer to your dummy dps
warm parcel
How does 3x ss cut into st?
worldly seal
I was finally able to defend myself against 200k hp tanks
Blizzard said no dude not allowed
warm parcel
3xss and pb is strictly superior on st than fok trait and ct
oh scent
Id never use scent
If ss remains as is
Its simply overpowered for m+
hollow escarp
Not if you get kicked for playing sin
vagrant wasp
are bleeds dynamic when I apply vendetta or do I need to vendetta before i apply a new round of bleeds
vagrant wasp
thx m8
marble hemlock
why would anyone kick an assa rogue for m+ right now tho :p
cedar cloak
I've seen people using garrote 2 times on opener, whats the opener right now for assa rogues?
marble hemlock
@warm parcel problem with SS is that i imagine trashpulls on higher keys lasting like 40sec +, at which point 6+ rupture with triple scent might be a lot better for aoe dps than 3x SS
cedar cloak
bc i get confused with all the new openers that are around
marble hemlock
but yeah, right now 3x SS or 2xSS+1xFoK traits are pretty nuts
marble hemlock
well, i dont have 3 SS pieces yet, and my shoulders happen to have fok trait
so im running with it
marble hemlock
its not too bad, average fok noncrit is 1.8k, crit 3.6k, so about ~15% of that is from the trait
and the range increase is a nice QoL
tranquil dust
guys my dmg spikes so low after i burn through vendetta tb
am i rotating wrong o-o
warm parcel
Even with trash lasting long having 3 instances of so much extra damage is a long way to climb
tranquil dust
following the exact rotation on st on ravenholdt
marble hemlock
garrote might carry even on longer pulls, yep
i think with much higher crit rupture-spreading will be the way to go tho
currently we just dont have the CP generation to facilitate getting scent stacks up quickly enough
warm parcel
I tried ct even with 27 base crit
Trink on proc/weapon at 47 or so
Still didnt really come ahead of the other assa with just pb
marble hemlock
i generally open with 3xgarrote>ct>fok>2-3cp rupture
warm parcel
I know
cedar cloak
Ravenholdt rotation guide seems off
warm parcel
I tried that several times
marble hemlock
then maintain CT and ramp up more rupture for energy, and spam CT at the end
its not nice
but it works decently well
warm parcel
But I found my damage same as the other rogue
marble hemlock
hm
warm parcel
And with pb I was generally ahead
tranquil dust
@cedar cloak what rotation do u use?
marble hemlock
also seems that some trinkets are pretty broken for m+
mother trinket for example has like 70% uptime in any given dungeon
warm parcel
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YfZHMNypm8jxXqnL
In case you wanna take a peek at some spam today
Were fairly similarly geared and only diff is ex vs tb
cedar cloak
Ye
tranquil dust
hrm
marble hemlock
hm
warm parcel
Oh that has mage runs 
marble hemlock
did 13.5k earlier in boralus
cedar cloak
top logs doing that
marble hemlock
17.5k in motherlode
warm parcel
You garrote twice during sub with ss traits
marble hemlock
our wl is starting to complain about assa being broken
warm parcel
wl saying assa op 
tranquil dust
what heroic is that in
tranquil dust
er mythic
marble hemlock
actually i felt that assa is competitive even on m+ bosses
playing exsang
that was in motherlode
cedar cloak
But ye if anyone wanna give me a hand with opener then lemme know
marble hemlock
+6 i think
warm parcel
Dude I still say assa is flat out best
tranquil dust
and ur playing with 2xss
warm parcel
Out of rogue specs
tranquil dust
with ct?
marble hemlock
yup
warm parcel
Nothing comes close to exsang rn
tranquil dust
hrm
warm parcel
Im flying pb ship
I dont think ct
Imma add ss opener to guide as ss is basically baseline rn
tranquil dust
oh waht
warm parcel
You have exsang tracker btw?
marble hemlock
nah, what does that one do?
tranquil dust
@sacred pier can u link ur sim
hollow stone
Oh baby. Let's peak together mm
forest beacon
I’m loving playing sin. People question me when I join groups, other rogues won’t take me but I consistently smash on top of every chart, trash and bosses
hollow escarp
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/453661354696507392/487291420730851333/unknown.png first bosd in MOTHERLODE with 3 x SS
cedar cloak
@warm parcel ty
trail otter
So are there any tricks to exsanged or do u just press it
hollow stone
Oh yeah there's tricks with it
cerulean walrus
tfw you join your raid group and then never get questioned for playing sin
Cause they think sin is still the most broken rogue spec :think:
hollow stone
You wanna exsang with strong n long bleeds for the most dps
deft locust
@hollow escarp
stuck shuttle
@dark marlinkjack first motherlode boss is a bad measurement
deft locust
what m+?
marble hemlock
so opener is rup, garrote, garrote, vendetta, rup, exsang
stuck shuttle
it takes increased damage
hollow escarp
Im dumb then 
marble hemlock
well on bosses, yeah
sicne oyu always have leftover CP from trash
saves you a GCD
marble hemlock
no
tranquil dust
or u take poison bomb at that point
marble hemlock
only using CT if adds are present and live long enough
tranquil dust
in raids
tranquil dust
but ur still using exang in raids?
marble hemlock
i did run CT for zekvoz/mythrax
tranquil dust
boss mecahnics fuck up sub rotations sometimes
marble hemlock
and zul
tranquil dust
where as sin gets around that
cerulean walrus
In a vacuum Sub>Sin
deft locust
ye
cerulean walrus
In reality Sin>sub
marble hemlock
sub might be just too nice to have for +10 when infested is an issue
but we will see about that tomorrow when were doing +10 runs
deft locust
sin is Better in heavy mechanics
marble hemlock
so far, for +5, i get way better results as assa
deft locust
but if mechanics are light, sub
cerulean walrus
Wait you all are already pushing 10 keys? What ilvl do you recommend for tht?
deft locust
sel sin felt fine against infested in my +10
lone junco
@hollow escarp lol.my meter shows damage first and dps second, so I saw 1.5m dps and was like 😱
lone junco
@marble hemlock are you streaming your +10s tomorrow?
deft locust
if your group is good
hollow escarp
@lone junco haha, i get tricked when i see meters like yours xD
deft locust
how so kojack?
warm parcel
Eeh
lone junco
@marble hemlock :garrote: champ/
warm parcel
I think 3x ss competes even with sub for killing infested
Issue is ss is gonna get gutted
Guaranteed
tranquil dust
@marble hemlock for aoe openrs
hollow escarp
Because m used to my type of meters
hollow stone
why would ss get gutted if sin is the lowest simming rogue spec?
marble hemlock
after first rupture
lone junco
yeah. 3x SS gonna cry
marble hemlock
to get some more energy quickly
stuck shuttle
@hollow stone because one spec has to be the bottom
deft locust
yeah ss is too overwhelming
hollow escarp
There are also no good SS pieces in raids yet
hollow stone
lol, and blade in the shadows for sub is balanced?
hollow escarp
Yeah, the fetid chest piece
stuck shuttle
sin will get better as the tiers come out
trail otter
I'd rather have SS bis instead of stupid ass ones like thunderous blast or something that doesn't impact the spec at all
cerulean walrus
Exacty @stuck shuttle
trail otter
In a dream world sure maybe something like SS double doae and something else
deft locust
if it's not how they envision it
hollow escarp
Spec identity <3
trail otter
But I don't trust blizzard to balance that
turbid sapphire
stat priority for assassination rogue in pvp?
tranquil dust
@marble hemlock do i throw in
evnemons
into the aoe rotation
or just keep up ct
marble hemlock
not really
only if y oure realling having a huge energy surge because you had some lucky fok crits
cerulean walrus
Isn't CT super energy heavy?