100%, swap it with another and watch your haste value go up
#assassination
hazy iron
candid phoenix
i have Galecaller since week 1
hazy iron
swap it out
lament dove
I'm using galecallers and still haste is my best stat
hazy iron
just saying, if there was any form of cap, i'd be hitting it at 18%, yet it's still my highest valued secondary
out of context, strayhand
read up
re: traits, and stats
strange python
I dont think you understand what cap means
lament dove
I have 2xSS, 2xHmC as well
strange python
Not talking to you clown
lament dove
also dagger in the back on other helm which gives about the same weights
strange python
To the person saying he hit a magicl cap
lament dove
and I'm not talking to you
hazy iron
righto
candid phoenix
i thought this channel was kid free, but i guess i was wrong 😦
i dont know strayhand, when i was running with 15% haste, it was still best stat. now that i reached 17% and got 3x SS
it was pushed 3rd
so its a combination of itms that gave that result
lament dove
I just provided another example like Errorsol, WITH galecaller, to show it's not the trinket - I have 13% haste btw
hazy iron
so get 17-18% haste and watch your haste drop, strayhand
if you take it off, your haste will increase
candid phoenix
most likely yes
but galecaller still sims as the 2nd best trinket
after the one in Mother
hazy iron
which fights will we be sitting still for?
candid phoenix
its 10 seconds. all fights have 10 second windows
hazy iron
fair point
anyways im not saying get rid of your trinket, I'm just saying, i'd bet that haste would become valuable again for you without it. How you got there it doesn't matter, you're there now lol
candid phoenix
yeah i know
i m not complaining xD
i was asking if any1 else had same thing happening
hazy iron
I honestly wish mastery was valuable for me, I have so much gear in my bags with it
kindred cedar
U should replace galecaller if u play with it or not?
hazy iron
don't replace it..
candid phoenix
nowai i m replacing it
its way too good atm
right now on my 18% haste with foodbuff, i m never energy starved, and trinket sets up small burst windows between vendettas
hazy iron
whats the CD on it?
candid phoenix
same for me frankly
devout jolt
Same, have Galecallers with socket but still after the helm for ss trait
lament dove
I don't like the immobility of it:\
main blaze
Well m+ end of dungeon loot wont have azerite
devout jolt
fuuuuuuu
candid phoenix
ye @lament dove that is a minor flaw, but once u learn the fights, u know how to use it
theres no boss w/o 10 second windows
devout jolt
The aoe of the buff isnt that small either so there is some manoeuvrability with it
autumn bloom
i have galecallers on my ww, wanna try it on assa
waxen tide
wait what when did double dose become good
autumn bloom
it's simming high on hero damage pr with MA
fallen sandal
hi guys, got a question, i have two shrouded suffication but i only gain 3 combo on pulling
it doesnt stack ?
main blaze
About a week ago something was fixed with double dose
CPs dont stack only damage does
autumn bloom
only dmg portion of traits stack
solid nova
The damage component stacks, not the CP gain.
autumn bloom
i wish i could get some more sharpened blades traits
fallen sandal
Ty
autumn bloom
really wanna try that build
flat laurel
Bursting Blood Or Agi Pot? ST
solid nova
As covered in the guide:
-For potions you should use Battle pot of Agility in all situations.
weak seal
Champions of azeroth
weak seal
Haven't checked
blissful crown
Arlgiht
jovial kite
@flat laurel for sin (my profile) bursting is ahead a whopping 14 dps
its ''undeniably'' ''better'' and not within error range
but 🤷
14 dps is 14 dps
tender walrus
What do u guys do if ur stuck on last 340 piece?
As in how do rerolls work.. i m new to wow
blissful crown
Atm im playing sin and have collected my 3 "pieces" for that. Otherwise then i still have to collect some for the 2 other specs.
Since rerolling on my 3 sin pieces wont give me BiS for sub/out
blissful crown
I need 340 dagger and new trinket, and ofc next lvl neck 😄
But +13k wont be a problem after wednesday with the new raid gear. What im exicted about is the tuning after first week to see where rogues are at.
jovial kite
@blissful crown dun wanna burst ur bubble but 310 -> 340 offhand is like 40 dps up :p
blissful crown
Yeah i know.
And a galecaller instead of spyglass wont do much probely.
But it is what it is. im rdy for raid 😄
warm parcel
99% of the times agi pot ye
There can be situations where with haste on use and lust dmg pot would win
icy oar
@blissful crown AP
thorny glen
Does it matter if ur main hand is a lower ilvl
Like if I use a 325 main and 340 off hand do I lose dps
trail otter
yes
honest needle
assasination isnt lookin good i was told for raiding is that true ?
whats top spec for raiding gonna be and whats best for mythic dungeons ?
trail otter
I mean assa isnt top at 340 ilvl but as soon as your ilvl goes up from raid it's competitive and overall like top 5 so...
play what u enjoy friend
IIf you dont care then play sub
if you want easy paly outlaw
tender walrus
Does it place higher than sub and outlaw after 340?
solid nova
Not as of yet, on patchwork at least.
But tuning is just around the corner, so in terms of a definitive better spec, is unknown.
To have all 3 specs performing so well, it's going to be fine to play preference on opening week.
blissful crown
Looking fine, but in a week that wont look like that 😄
solid nova
Exactly.
blissful crown
3 rogue speccs performing so well, like thats gonna happend. I just hope sin will come out on top.
tender walrus
When s the tuning?
blissful crown
I think tuesday next week
strange python
Probably before mythics. They will allow a week or so of heroic content to gauge performance imo
solid nova
Usual maintenance on reset, plus tuning normally follows Heroic week
strange python
One thing with those sims linked is thats a pure patchwerk fight with zero errors
solid nova
As is the case with all patchwork sims
blissful crown
I still think sin will be on top the first reset since some fights requires movement
And adds.
But i might be wrong
tender walrus
So then a new sim comes out after the tuning?
strange python
Assassination is probably the most forgiving spec in regards to movement and even target switching within range is a dps gain outside of vendetta
blissful crown
^^
strange python
@blissful crown i agree
solid nova
The sim updates are usually quite up to date, and has the last update time shown
So just a case of waiting 😄
strange python
Each raid encounter will favour diff specs. I was speaking to ylajio from method and a rogue from pieces for a long time.
Assa will be very viable for all encounters
And depending on raid setup and your roll will only determine if you do more dps to adds (cleaving, outlaw for example) or priority add damage or even final phase nukes.
stuck oyster
@solid nova can you link me the source of the sim dps table ?
strange python
Plus apart from azerite pieces we are not invested into any spec so i would advice learning all specs? Hording multi setup pieces and once tuning and experience in content highlights thr go to specs we play them all :)
solid nova
@stuck oyster http://www.simulationcraft.org/
stuck oyster
thank you
strange python
@stuck oyster i pmd you with other useful resources for sim information.
strange python
@tender walrus i have assa outlaw ans sub setups
It all depends on rng
It may not all be min maxed at this point
stuck oyster
@strange python thank you. that will help
strange python
But my assassination has 3x ss 3x head my call
strange python
But it means i have a slightly less min maxed sub azerite pieces with like razens and gutripper
strange python
I had the ss pieces just sitting in bags and one day decides to see what assa bits i had, as i was sub /outlawing all the time
Im now planning on going into raid as assa due to those 3x ss pieces
rotund forum
TMW you go weeks without a new weapon and you finally get one and its a fist weapon so now you have to be outlaw T_T
strange python
But i am only simming 12.1k
trail otter
with EP is it better to wait to envenom at the end of the buff or to use it right away so EP doesnt run out
strange python
@rotund forum until wednesday when you can farm weapons non stop till you cant handle another run :)
trail otter
Like for example 1 sec on EP left 5 CP and 2 secs on envenom left
rotund forum
yesssss
trail otter
do you envenom after the 2 secs or before 1 sec of EP runs out
blissful crown
before EP,
strange python
That 10% damage is a must
trail otter
kk that's what i thought
strange python
Try to plan ahead with energy pooling
strange python
Assa energy regen isnt great yet
blissful crown
since haste stack with bleeds and we have the 3x ss trait we wanna have EP uptime as much as possible.
solar fog
Trying to get 2 daggers and a slow one to play all specs but only get outlaw weapons instead feelsbadman
strange python
So took me a few attempts on target dummies to get the pooling right
blissful crown
In legion we ran MP therefor we wanted our envenom buff up as much as possible.
trail otter
most bosses MP might be better yeah?
strange python
@blissful crown :)
strange python
@trail otter not st this stage
Bleeds are doing significantly more
Especially with the current ss traits
royal lantern
mp got a huge hit with the weapon poison only change, EP is for EVERYTHING
strange python
20k garrote ticks on 3 targets :)
trail otter
yeah but im saying bosses you have to afk but ur in range for poison knife MP prolly better yeah?
guess there's not gonna be bosses liek that though
strange python
@trail otter i dont believe MP will be utilised at all this tier. Unless the tuning changes something big
I could be wrong. But doesnt look that way yet
Also when your standing at range you should have refreshed your bleeds
trail otter
my point is if you dont reup ur EP
then it's p useless
but also like i said i havent seen fights
strange python
So knife is just there to keep a little poison damage rolling and prevening energy regen from dropping off
trail otter
p rare for a fight to not let you hit anything
strange python
My understanding from videos is you will always have spmething to kill :)
royal lantern
without the ss traits mp and ep are close togheter, but ep will probably only get better with each raid tier and more secondary stats etc
royal lantern
less energy pooling cus you simply have more energy cus of crit/haste and stuff, all that will make ep gameplay more easy and stronger
trail otter
shld I wait to EP my toxic blade if i can get it off next global
strange python
@royal lantern thank god :)
trail otter
like if i have to decide between toxic blading rn or next global for EP
strange python
Tb on CD but try plan ahead and pool
strange python
You will nornally only have 2 envenoms during tb
So you should be able to keep EP rolling. This all becomes easier on reset
Due to m+ stat scaling
blissful crown
Do you use 2-3 cps envenoms to keep EP running?
strange python
Anyone know if with m+ and raid content they will increase titanforge to 370? Or so
blissful crown
or do you let it off for a extra mutilate for a +4 envenom?
trail otter
Idk why they wldnt, 370 is what base drops from a 10.
strange python
@blissful crown i nornally manage 4-5 cps with ep up. However on my opener i will 3 cp envenom if it doesnt proc just to get the debuffs rolling
@trail otter it was an example :)
Plus it would be stupid to have mythic level gear drop before mythics are released
trail otter
ye im sayin idk why they wldnt put titanforging in mythic_
ah ur saying for just that week
well heroic will have titanforges to mythic ilvl
strange python
It would be to what ilevel max they will change
royal lantern
m+ can drop weapons right? or also cache only?
trail otter
yes
strange python
M+ can
trail otter
they drop what the dungeon drops
royal lantern
another 50 toldagor runs inc
trail otter
I love tol dagor
royal lantern
except azerite gear, that stuff is weekly cache only
trail otter
this xpac has great dungeons imo
trail otter
is shrine not better to farm?
for the azerite piece, trinket, and chance of a wep?
wep is meh
strange python
I will spend time in shrine for sure
trail otter
will bonus rolls be available tomorrow?
strange python
Yes 2 coins per week
trail otter
where do you purchase em?
Also sorry for so many questions but what bosses you guys rerolling on? I'm thinking Taloc and mother
actually fuck that mother and Zul, rather have both weps
lofty sand
I'm rerolling on mother and the dude that drops the chest piece with SS
hollow barn
@trail otter the vendor beside the transmog guy in your hub
@strange python you can only get azerite from m+ in your weekly chest
flat laurel
Quick navigation on MH and deadly navigation on OH... does it even matter?
flat laurel
Aye
raw shoal
How can Garrote tick for 11k at 305 ilvl? Subterfuge and Vendatta on but still
trail otter
So does anything significant change at higher ilvl like 385, better traits or trinkets?
guess I'll just wait in see
nvm
spice surge
@raw shoal Shrouded Suffocation trait is insane
strange python
@frigid lagoon yes
spice surge
I thought they said low amounts of AP (ie you dont farm m+ for ap) and not 0 ap
cinder field
despite the fact that the use of garrote is funny the whole rotation is low cause of the energy regen, enjoy opener but thats it 🤷
jovial kite
@cinder field funny, i find it the opposite right now
strange python
Artifact power drops from m+, however it was extremely low amount on beta
jovial kite
due to lack of secondary stats you have naturally low ep / env uptimes
which makes it harder to play
and thats what i like
cinder field
"funny" cause of the damage, my en isnt that good but i think you got my point
strange python
Hey lucky you, because according to some people here, throwing out 2cp finishers is only a 1-2% DPS loss
You can have 100% EP uptime
cinder field
it is obviously the opposite of a good gameplay, even worse than arcane mage
cinder field
well, dont you think the same of sin rn?
jovial kite
yeah but thats to be expected at the start of the tier
we dont have the needed secondary stats
cinder field
sure, dont get me wrong, that current gameplay with a bit more crit & haste would be enjoyable
trail otter
Only complaint I have about it rn is that rupture feels underwhelming
A lot of people dont like empowered garrote but I love it. i Think it shld do most damage if u abuse empowered procs
Kinda wish we had 1 more button to press though maybe like kingsbane or somethin
cinder field
did anyone try it with exsang?
vestal wren
why not
jovial kite
just fyi the exs apl isnt anywhere near optimized
its casting vanish rupture with subterfuge
it opens with double garrote and double garrotes after vanish rupturing
even with glaring flaws like this its still ''only'' 600 dps behind current best profile
spice surge
Why does it matter if it does rupture after vanishing with subterfuge?
As long as it does 2x garrotes afterwards inside subt, its fine
jovial kite
yeah i guess ur right but i def wouldnt open like that
spice surge
Double garrote was found to be a gain
jovial kite
if you open like that then the double garrote on pull is waste
since you gain nothing except 2cp by opening with 2 garrotes which you will be vanish double-garrote exsanguinating 10 sec later
spice surge
You get a 30% longer garrote? 🤔
jovial kite
sigh
garrote on pull 18 sec
8 sec later vanish double garrote exsang
double garrote on pull 22 sec
8 sec later vanish double garrote exsang
you will pandemic it either way with vanish
spice surge
Why wouldnt you just exsang asap? Garrote>vend>garrote>rupt>exsang
Or am i missing something?
spice surge
Ok well then yeah youre right
jovial kite
its pooling cp for vanish rupture
spice surge
Legion style
jovial kite
i dont think vanish is even needed for the opener tbh
there are some variants
vanish double garrote after first exsang
- opener being garrote garrote rupture vendetta exsang
or save vanish for next exsang or next exsang+vendetta
current apl gets practically 0 or close to 0 value from vanish usage
spice surge
Probably using vanish after first exsang and then lining up exsang+vanish+vend at like 2.25
spice surge
Ill post it in #tc-research to have somebody look at it, i cant do it atm
jovial kite
actually current apl also loses 6sec of exsang outside of vedetta on pull
twilit owl
Someone tested the Prepots ? Blooderuption or the Agi one?
twilit owl
kk ty
jovial kite
but as soon as theres even one target that lasts 10 sec or more agi becomes better
so id use bursting for literal 100% pure st
if you care about 15 dps on average
spice surge
Yes, also multiplied by subterfuge
and the actual damage seems to be higher than the tooltip says aswell
nimble gulch
ohh aperently that is the dps ranking for t22 uldir 😄
raw shoal
^
true ingot
"Yeah these numbers are low for now. But no they are for t22 uldir!!"
vestal wren
not all specs are in atm
not sure what wow dps is using but its def. not a actual simc build
raw shoal
is it just me or do all specs seem viable
true ingot
Probably just auto attacks.
nimble gulch
my bad for posting that :/
vestal wren
its all fine, its a 3rd party site. there are many, the reliable ones are linked here 😉
nimble gulch
XD Dump question but what would u guys pick worgen or female night elve
cause i wana change race maybe
just fpor estatic reasons
not dps related !
calm jackal
worgen for outlaw, night elve for sub/assa
hidden oasis
- u get second vanish in m+
twilit owl
@nimble gulch are you Furry? if not, pick Nelf 😄
nimble gulch
😄 all good
hidden oasis
So is there gonna be a tuning patch tomorrow ?
twilit owl
i hope so
nimble gulch
cause i look like this atm
and i dont know if i like it
sry for posting transmog stuf here
cobalt flint
@hidden oasis I think tuning is done next week before mythic opens
strange python
yeah they said next tuesday, not this tuesday is the next balance pass
grizzled harness
Wait Mythic isn't this week?
twilit owl
Mythic + is this week, Uldir mythic next
grizzled harness
Oh alright
lone junco
@fleet anchor Did you get around to the vendetta delay at 2:20? Or was that a wash/loss?
Mostly concerned how we can maximize the vanish and 3x SS.
That would align the 3rd exsang with 2nd vendetta and second vanish.
deft locust
are you trying exsang @lone junco ?
fair rain
Noobe
lone junco
yo
fair rain
☠️
fair rain
10-4 acknowledged
deft locust
hmm
guess I get to have fun with exsang today. sounds fun
used to be my fav setup in legion
lone junco
I feeeel. that Exsang on 3ss might be nice. but TB hits hard as shit.
like 15-18k. so for every exsang, you need to make up that much in Normal bleed rate ticks. no counting the env buffs.
with 25sec cd, that is a lot to catch up for.
deft locust
true enough
lone junco
legion exang worked, because the Exang overlapped Bota/Conc for its duration.
we dont have anything like that to pop the exsang.
ok.
g g r vendetta exsang. . . . .
vanish g g
11.5 sec of ss,
vanish 23sec.
with full 20 sec of overlap in vendetta.
wont push the desync apart that far.
fair rain
Noobe the opening you sent me still counts with 0 ss traits
lone junco
no. you need SS to do the Garrote Garrote.
twilit owl
I read alot that Exang is better then TB now. How is that?
tender walrus
The azerite wq give 325 tho?
elder cypress
No ingi head for sin, am i right?
arctic venture
should I use quick or deadly in main hand?
lilac spade
Are A traits random?
sudden ravine
No
lilac spade
👍
strange python
how important is the third SS? don't have it on my 340 shoulders but have it on 325. Does raidbots sim take SS trait+stacking into account when comparing gear?
spice surge
Yes, provided you enter them correctly in the fields
strange python
alrighty
lilac spade
Is 325 SS simming higher than 340 poop AT?
lone junco
When you think about SS. Remember it may be similar in st. But it dumpsters in 2t 3t
The apl for 3t is wrong. It is way better than that.
quaint sequoia
bloodmallet lists Sharpened Blades higher than SS, is this correct?
lapis grail
anyone got a sharpen blade weak aura?
sick cradle
Does thistle tea share a cd with pots?
deft locust
yikes..
strange python
raid day is approaching fast and after countless heroic runs I still have to acquire a 325 or higher dagger. Guess i have to go in with my 310/300 😦
somber egret
+--------------------------------------------------
fresh ginkgo
Is it Tuesday yet?
vestal wren
not yet
fresh ginkgo
tender walrus
Is there a way to see what abilities are used and in what order when simulating?
lone junco
Yeah. Click your HTML summary link. Scroll to the bottom of player section. Action priority list. Sample summary.
brisk forge
strange python
subterfuge
onyx fjord
guys, what should be my second enhancment on weapon for sin and does it matter which enhancment i apply to which wep?
dense cedar
what's ur first enchant? @onyx fjord
dense cedar
what are your two highest weighted stats currently?
plain thistle
onyx fjord
strange python
kinda unrelated, is elaborate planning worth using with exsang?
plain thistle
yes, its the best talent in that row for exsanguinate
strange python
good to know, i'll try it, thanks
singe target burst went from 11-13k to 19-22k, nutty
weak pine
?
dense cedar
what were u using? @strange python
weak pine
Sounds like a sample size of 1
strange python
talents?
onyx fjord
does stacking SS give u extra combo points for each stack?
strange python
no
brazen tiger
damn
weak pine
Umm
strange python
you get the damage though
weak pine
onyx fjord
man these emotes so agressive
strange python
has blizz said anything about fixing ss before uldir?
weak pine
Idk about that but I expect a balance patch before mythic raids open
opaque grotto
I just tested exang with 3x SS and went over 30k dps on my opener on a training dummy
lofty sand
Whats agressive about ??? 🤔
onyx fjord
idk just feels like that
weak pine
Are you using exang?
twilit owl
y
opaque grotto
I could already go over 20k+ with TB
if I double my garrote dmg on opener
It's easy to imagine going over 30kl
weak pine
Well idk I got 25k earlier today on a rare mob
opaque grotto
i only tested it once, that's probably the difference between a lot of crits and no crits
weak pine
It is
strange python
is 26% a good amount?
opaque grotto
Haste is my best stat atm but this is just what my best gear has turned out to be
abstract crescent
ass good
prime quail
Damn
wise whale
while reading my sim action log i noticed that after stealt i am supposed to garrot twice directly back to back
also after vanish
why is that?
prime quail
Hows ass in m+?
wise whale
oh ok
opaque grotto
if trash lives long enough it's great
thorn crater
i have been playing outlaw on mythics doing 12-25k on adds and 10-11 on bosses
and i swappe to sin for fun
i destroyed
wise whale
thx, feels weird
thorn crater
and if u get used to keeping dots up u can keep using finishers wchich can procc multiple PB
strange python
aoe with ass is actually pretty fun imo, multidot and all
thorn crater
since its no rng anymroe
prime quail
How do. You Play that in trash
thorn crater
but i had to get to 340 gear
prime quail
You rupture/Garrote
thorn crater
spam 3 garrotes on 3 different targets
(yes overcap cps)
rupture on the last one
then go back and throw a 2-3 point rup on the other 2
and keep dots up
prime quail
Alright ty Gonna try it
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
thorn crater
tbh to me it feels like sin can be one of the 2-3 strongest dual target dpses
oh
so u wait for ur garrotes to run off?
before using a non stealth one?
man that sucks
tbh i have been doing that
and i stil get crazy dmg amount
opaque grotto
it's whatever, you'll still do a billion dps
thorn crater
tbh im worried about first raid boss
should i go outlaw for it?
do the oozes spawning die too fast on p2?
for sin i mean
thorn crater
cause im in a new guild
with 3 old rogues
so i gotta ruin them
if i want a spot
for mythic
both my outlaw and sin speccs are max geared
but im not sure where to go for which
lilac spade
Is ravenholdt gonna publish a rogue raid guide soon?
thorn crater
yes but i base myself on rng
prime quail
Prolly all Overgeared
thorn crater
cause if i get bad rolls at start
what am mi gonna say?
whereas my sin opener on avg does 24k dps
prime quail
Mhm Idk even with Shit rolls
thorn crater
can u even melee the oozes on p2 and 3
without dying?
cause of the aoe shit around them?
prime quail
Not in a raidguild only m+ pusher 😒 cant help ya
thorn crater
i hope someone would have posted sth about which spec seems better at which fight
but thats wishful thinking 😛
prime quail
Well noone really Knows Shit rn
All ppl Gonna Test
And even then
When mythic opens
thorn crater
i guess ye
thorn crater
btw do we have any of the mods here working on the simulationcraft site?
what is that suggested gear for the speccs??? wtf
prime quail
Whats the stat Prio for ass? Haste best like Outlaw ?
thorn crater
y
for ST though
i prefer crit over it cause of aoe situations
haste>crit>mast
for ST
crit>mast>vers>=haste for aoe
prime quail
Gotta learn all the shortcuts lol
Rouge since BfA
So new to this don't know the haste Caps etc
weak pine
Haste cap? 
strange python
There are no "caps" from what i understand about the scaling of stat weights. As you get into m+ and mythics you can use simcraft and raidbots to generate the stat weights for your current gear which may change ever single time you equip a new piece. @prime quail
I sim myself with every single upgrade. But as of tomorrow it will scale fastee
Faster*
weak pine
Keep in mind a single point of haste will get worse the more haste you have. For comparison 101% dot speed vs 151%
Therefore at some point haste might stop being #1 stat
prime stirrup
If it offers the greatest +dps per point then just go with haste
sim weights are there for a reason
weak pine
^
thorn crater
on my outlaw spec i have vers>crit>haste atm
prime stirrup
for me personally Haste gives 1.68 dps per point crit gives 1.6 so haste is still my best stat even at 15%
balmy cradle
For aoe sims do i use hectic add cleave or 5 targets (bosses) for example?
ancient fiber
do u think be is still fine for rogue?
lilac spade
raids come out tomo?
civic palm
yes
wise whale
why am i simming higher then the highest preraid cobination on herodamage?
civic palm
Considered the item level of the HD character?
wise whale
what ilvl is it? i asumed it would be 355
civic palm
340 IIRC
wise whale
oh ok
abstract crescent
wait wtf
lone junco
ill prob use it for M+ over TB.
abstract crescent
is that
balmy cradle
Why is it better in m+?
blissful crown
Its hard to tell by now
Dno why ppl keep asking, i mean we havnt seen rogues perform in raids or higher keys mythic+
lone junco
SS is very very strong
blissful crown
everything dies so fast now that it is hard to say
lone junco
Exang feeds it, far more than TB ever will.
especially in the 10 sec prio targets.
ST prio. g r g mut vendetta rupture exsang.
hexed root
is exsanguinate stronger then toxic blade?
hexed root
i got a random question cause these traits give me a real hang up and idk why, but whats up with sharpened blades being one of the best traits?
is it really that good to throw in a random poisoned blade?
lone junco
sharp is gonna be complete shit for M+
civic palm
EX is stronger than TB when looking at ST priority burst.
lone junco
crit 150k on single target
but knife throw in a world of cleave, isnt my thing.
there may be a boss apl with EP vanish NS knife
spice surge
Its good for infest, assuming you need to burst the add fast
But it depends on how infest is handled
civic palm
Not overly fast, just burst it down.
lone junco
it will be good for me. depending on group comp for mass cleave vs. 3T-6T
hexed root
are there even that many aoe options though on the outer ring?>
lone junco
Scent.
civic palm
and if you have another DPS capable of targeting the other one you can cover it.
lone junco
@hexed root 2cp rupture tabbing on larger packs will feed you a ton of agi.
hexed root
yea that makes sense
lone junco
depends on pack duration.
hexed root
im terrible with these traits
lone junco
aka 6 elites vs 10 non elites. non elites will get destroyed. not sin meta tbh.
outlaw feeds off them with mark.
lone junco
tbh. I think there will be some good ST zing.
deft locust
should be better for affixes like infested too
civic palm
Well, not that buildup specifically.
Just that EX is good on ST burst.
Can't burn a Vanish on every Infest target.
civic palm
Well... you might be able to.
civic palm
Yeah almost .
deft locust
i guess you can tb every fight too
hexed root
whats TB/ST?
deft locust
toxic blade, single target
hexed root
ah oka
raw shoal
exsang works with crimson tempest and internal bleeding, stack all the bleeds then watch that hp bar drain
lone junco
is that new?
deft locust
ooo
raw shoal
idk i literallt just tried it 1 min ago
deft locust
neato
raw shoal
its fun
lone junco
i know kidney bleed is nice, but i would probably rather Kidney Prey for the exsang SS rip
esp for prio 10% from team.
deft locust
prey is better prolly
deft locust
but ct exsang is good
lone junco
i plan to 2x ss. 1x rupture. open 3g. tab ruptures, then when time to hot swap to CC. vanish g g cheapshot rupture exsang vendetta mut mut kidney.
will be nice to have 6+ ruptures out.
that 3rd ss would be nice, but in packs of 6+ you dont have shit to do.
raw shoal
u keep CT up and it will carry u
deft locust
ct is pretty good
crude hinge
ct over poison bomb? for M+?
deft locust
it's like a 4cp envenom on each target
raw shoal
for sure, ct is amazing in dungeons
deft locust
if it goes through the duration
lilac coral
there a decent weakaura out there for CT that isn't part of a suite?
deft locust
in packs under 7 I basically win every dps parse on trash with 3ss and ct
balmy cradle
Ct on 3+ targets or a 2+?
deft locust
I haven't done two tests but id say it's worth on two
off a total guess
should sim it
or try it
lone junco
It's probably worth uptime. In legion prepatch we were spamming Ct.
lone junco
We won't have the energy to spam for quite a while crit wise.
deft locust
haven't tested
normally I just default to mut if it's 2
and sometimes 3, not sure how it feels
yet
civic palm
@lilac coral Just use the new templates and step through it, should be simple enough.
lilac coral
will take a stab at it, thanks!
frank shard
what's everyone's haste at rn?
just trying to get an idea of where i'm at compared to other sins
lilac coral
10% lul
deft locust
13%
raw shoal
for me ct does more than envenom, not taking in consideration envenom's poison application chance, so its worth on 2 prolly
raw shoal
but do u have that 10% leech tho
frank shard
that i dont
raw shoal
12 with Master Poisoner
raw shoal
u got leech on ur gear then
strange python
yes sir
untold laurel
Does CT have a pandemic window or should we just spam it after opener g and ruptures are out?
hidden oasis
So why is everyone that not playing a rogue saying that sin is fucking awful now
i don't get it
honestly
civic palm
They're not.
hidden oasis
starting to get triggered by those idiots
I mean not everyone but yeah..
a lot of ppl
balmy cradle
I feel more comfortable on sin so far than on sub aoe build. Sub st is fine tho
tender walrus
U guys prefer the sin aoe build over the st build?
hidden oasis
My whole guild is like why dont u change to sub man its way much better
balmy cradle
Sub aoe just feels clunky when fighting less then 4 mobs
hidden oasis
Since i got 2xshrouded I haven't encountered a class that can beat me on 3-4 targets
idk what will happen if i get 3 lol
deft locust
@hidden oasis cuz sub was so dominant
people just auto assume legion stereotypes
might not be wrong either, who knows all of the sub forums and a lot of outlaws discredit sin
heck, i did too for a bit till I tried it
kindred cedar
Will we be using battle potion of agility or will we also be using that other one?
tender walrus
Is the mt build preferred over the st one?
raw shoal
@untold laurel refresh CT at 2s
crude hinge
do you guys play with master poisoner or elaborate planning. I sim better with elaborate planning but for whatever reason i feel like Mp SHOULD be better
lone junco
I have a feeling that exsang will keep me happy in m+.
deft locust
i can't remember if that scaled
lone junco
Esp with Ct.
lone junco
Tabbing out ruptures during the SS ticks will be nice.
raw shoal
just find a way to exsang all targets
lone junco
Nah. We still want to wreck a prio
crude hinge
for CT you just throw it up or you spam it?
lone junco
I would be ok with hot swap to the prio after a few garrotes and ruptures are out. Then vanish burst exsang
raw shoal
dont spam it
sturdy egret
which enchant do we use on weap?
lone junco
Use Ct as a bulk rupture. Not a spam. You will still want occasional env during your FOK weaving.
raw shoal
the bigger portion of CT dmg is the bleed
lone junco
Now I just need good stats. And a purple dagger.
raw shoal
if u wanna try fun burst with exsang go: mfd > rupture > mut > ss > ct > vendetta > exsang
lone junco
Well.
Over time vigor helps us maintain ep.
But In a short condition. Mark CT is pretty nice.
thorny basin
galecaller boon seems to cancel subterfuge messing with garrote, that a bug?
lone junco
Probably.
Anything that fucks with SS open goes in the dumpster.
I keed. Log it. And the post in #tc-research
strange python
Yet if fixes it should be 2nd bis
thorny basin
Ok thanks. it sims higher for me at 340 than the Dice at 350 . I dont like the movement limitation of it anyway but was going to try to go with it anyway.
arctic venture
guys about the weapon enchat,
what is better to have in main hand, deadly or quick?
civic palm
What about the pins?
strange python
Best 2 from what you sim
civic palm
Orientation doesn't matter.
frosty robin
anyone know
main blaze
sure
frosty robin
if the sim casts poison knife during vanish if nightstalker is talented into
or the crit one for that matter
with sharpened blades
before i start exploring
strange python
I haven't played assassination in BFA, do most people go for x3 or x2 SS?
main blaze
3
strange python
thank you
strange python
do I still use the same opener as the one in the ravenholdt guide if I have x3 ss?
strange python
alright
jaunty arrow
What is 3x ss?
strange python
shrouded suffocation
hard comet
3 Shrouded Suffocation azerite traits
strange python
the garrote trait
next wolf
any simming over 13k yet?
strange python
how much do you guys open with?
jaunty arrow
Dps?
strange python
yeah
jaunty arrow
Not sure but i guess 18
strange python
yeah tb
strange python
yep
jaunty arrow
Depends on trinket proc, cant check now sry dude 
deft locust
awkward, I was spec'd into exsang and didn't move tb back into abilties haha
Gotta wait 2 min
strange python
I got to 19k
jaunty arrow
Thats good
strange python
yeah but it drops rapidly
deft locust
how much time
many seconds into it*
I kinda got caught up in rotation
and did a full burst haha
strange python
vanish still resets details doesn't it?
deft locust
yeah but you can just do
overall data
and reset per fight
per test*
after 730k damage
that's around where I sat
unfort my trinket proc'd right before I started test
and my hmc's only proc'd once
so maybe 14k roughly after 730k
deft locust
what is your 110 talent?
strange python
no such thing
deft locust
I was using ct, not that I ever used it
strange python
😛
strange python
pb
deft locust
I have ct spec'd
but that's only cuz I'd never use pb if I'm playing sin
pb is better for ST so prolly right choice
strange python
it's better than nothing for pure st
deft locust
ya
what is your rotation?
well what's your opener look like
I don't actually know what's been confirmed as best opener, I kinda just went on the fly. Picked up sin 2 days ago once I heard about triple SS
kindred cedar
If I have 1 trait of SS how many garrote do i open with? 2x?
jovial kite
Gar, Rup, Gar, Ven, Mut, Rup, Exsg
then vanish double garrote after the exsang runs out
kindred cedar
Or how does my opener change?
strange python
gar > gar > rup > ven > muti > pb > envenom > muti > muti > envenom > vanish > gar > gar > envenom
kindred cedar
Ven?
jaunty arrow
Vendetta
strange python
that was in response to neverr
strange python
yeah 😛
kindred cedar
And I always do 2x garrote when vanish? And do i cast them insta or delay them abit for ticks?
jaunty arrow
I use ven > tb > muti but w/e :-D
deft locust
and I think we pool more for TB than for EP, dunno tho. Sorry, only barely just started testing sin D:
deft locust
yeah Raiz that's what I do roughly
nice 😛
are you expending your TB on cd?
and pooling for it beforehand?
There's a couple things you have to keep track of
strange python
no havent been pooling beforehand
jaunty arrow
@kindred cedar yes
deft locust
making sure a rupture is up long enough to go through your entire TB duration before you cast it, garrote as well outside of opener
Since you want to mut envenom spam inside the TB window
young portal
Hey guys, completely unrelated but Wanna try simming, could someone point me in the right direction as to what websites to start at? No clue
deft locust
so your job during rotation is to make sure your rupture timer doesnt expire in the middle of your TB
strange python
that requires a lot of thinking
deft locust
since that would make you waste 5cp on rupture
true story
there's a lot more to it too, sin can perform at like 90% with minimal thinking
but it does take a lot of timer and dot tracking
to perfect ST, at least at first
once you get used to it it just becomes a rotation again
jaunty arrow
Raidbots for sim
strange python
at the same time you dont wanna override exsan/empowerred garrote just to get them up before you use tb
but i guess thats an exception to the rule
young portal
Cheers guys!
deft locust
exsang? 😮
kindred cedar
Exsang any good now?
jaunty arrow
Nah
strange python
i heard they were talking about exsang in here earlier
deft locust
if you are using exsang you don't have TB
strange python
i know
deft locust
o okay
deft locust
😛
jaunty arrow
Poison build is stronger now i guess
jaunty arrow
Will check
deft locust
exsang build is simpler imo @strange python if that matters to you
exsang gets rid of the TB juggle
deft locust
so you just have to make sure you start vanish with 5 cp for a rupture garrote garrote vendetta at 2:15-2:20ish minutes into the fight
oh okay
sounds good then 👍🏽
but in case you did like exsang
as I said, it's doing well with updated apl
I happen to do about 700 dps less with it, but that's mostly due to me having a ton of mastery
kindred cedar
With 1ss trait i open with garrote garrote rupture and with 2ss traits i open with garrote rupture garrote
That correct?
deft locust
actually I wonder if that's a bad thing now that it scales bleeds
strange python
only sims will tell @deft locust
deft locust
Uh.. I'm not sure joockeee, I won't lie. I've only ran with 3 ss
true enough @strange python
kindred cedar
I only got 1ss trait im afraid
deft locust
unfort my build is very very bad for ST
I'm going pure m+ build, so full crit/mastery and ignoring haste entirely
deft locust
ye
jaunty arrow
Ignoring haste is suicide
deft locust
not for m+ o_o
unless I'm lower than the average sin, I pull about 18-20k a pack of 3-4
jaunty arrow
With like 3% haste my bleeds will tick backward
deft locust
lmao
kindred cedar
What build is that neverr?
kindred cedar
Where can i check it?
jaunty arrow
Nah i have 14%
deft locust
@kindred cedar I don't recall. it's somewhere, maybe in pins and click on the guide. But Crit/mastery is prio stats for multi-target
@jaunty arrow o
kindred cedar
Cool ty
deft locust
ofc all stats are weighted
if you have too much of one the others will get better
just how it works
jaunty arrow
Yep
deft locust
sim to double check is your best bet
jaunty arrow
Actualy i dont care now i am happy if item doesnt have fkin versality 😂
tidal jetty
Do we hold Vendetta for vanish?
junior crest
out of my current gear, sim is telling me that 2 sharpened blades and 1 shrouded suffocation is best to use. how do i use sharpened blades to maximize my dps?
deft locust
@kindred cedar this is roughly what I get on a pack of 4 after about a minute or a little longer
if for whatever reason a pack of elites last longer than a minute it drops to about 18k
sharpened blades is the stacking buff for the frontloaded pk right?
sorry
I've done 0 research on actual ST builds for sin
jovial kite
oho nvm i misread above