I guess I could do that too. Time to collect a ton of azerite gear
#assassination
versed mica
safe matrix
Then you can also change it up and adapt to each fight
versed mica
Thanks for the chat, night y'all
daring imp
usually you won't have trouble to keep ep up after applying the three garrotes
just spreading rupture/envenoms around and all good
day 2 with 3x SS, too spoiled with never seen before bursts unless you got like 3pb in a row on opening, send help 🐢
grizzled harness
dense jetty
do i use toxic blade on cooldown, even if im maxed on combo points?
west frost
No don't waste cp
dense jetty
so i should literally use a finisher, and use toxic blade as my first point after?
west frost
And pool some energy ahead of time for tb
dense jetty
or wait til i can use it before an envenom to maximise it
west frost
Preferably that finisher is a well timed rupture
dense jetty
but its not nature damage
west frost
I mean before you tb
dense jetty
oh yeh
west frost
So you can maximise envenoms
dense jetty
so in that situation is it better to hold TB for a few seconds to maximise it?
i thought it was supposed to just be used asap regardless
vivid creek
You never really get more than 2 envenoms per TB, so on CD is best imo
i mean waiting 1-2sec for the double maybe, but I would'nt wait longer than that
Time it well with the opener then just go on CD
lofty sand
to pull mobs from far away, every class has a ranged ability like that
worldly seal
ty
lofty sand
I think there is a meme build with it floating around somewhere, but I dunno how it works
worldly seal
ty
daring imp
not really meme, but sharpened blades just isn't as stronk as ss
hollow vapor
Poison knife is also great at keeping poison up on an off target at range. More important in pvp but note worthy for pve as well
mental lava
hey guys... do azerite traits stack??
dense cedar
mental lava
which pins should i check?\
mental lava
so that means if i take 2x for example double dose it will give me twice the damage of the trait?
royal lantern
ye, but you should not take double dose cus that trait is pretty bad
mental lava
it ws as an example
tbh i have 340 ilvl but really bad traits and stats really unlucky but nvm
could you maybe tell me, if youre so kind - where are those pins?
!pins
lol
😦
dense cedar
top right
main blaze
Double dose is decent. 4th on the list of traits we would want
also it should scale with envenom uptime
so will probably get better as haste/crit increases
lofty sand
In the pins there is a FAQ
tight ravine
there's no way they're keeping SS like this
jovial kite
why not
tight ravine
saw a dude post a crit for 60k on some player
jovial kite
well personally i dont relly care about pvp or wpvp
didnt know you were referring to pvp
lone junco
SS is most reliable in raidboss conditions. And there is no way the garrote tick crit for 60k. Probably the knife throw trait.
fair rain
Yeah good job noobe
lone junco
👌
That one can stay as far as I'm concerned. It has zero 2T + potential. Maybe useful for a prio add or orb or short vuln phase
hollow stone
Dagger wq us horde lesssss goooo
thin plinth
how is assasination currently guys ?
hollow stone
Its good. Sims a bit lower than sin n outlul but strong cleave dmg and engaging play
Sub*
safe matrix
Also punished a lot less by downtime
Good sustained "AoE" damage, but lacklustre burst
crude hinge
what do you guys think of assassination in mythic plus I know our aoe is pretty decent but particularly in high pluses whats your guys' take
sturdy egret
if i have a 310 helm with shrouded suff vs 340 helm with shit trait, do ilvl trump the lost of suff?
crude hinge
at that point i would use raidbots
strange python
idk use gear compare on raidbots
sturdy egret
ok thanks
hollow stone
I think it will be very strong. Especially in groups without a frost mage. Crip poison adds a lot of utility
Mass stealth is also always good to skip the one or two packs you really dont want to pull
St is still strong. I think sin will be very good in m+
Lots of 3t pulls where you dot to a ton of dmg
unreal bear
lone junco
@hollow stone agree. 2-6t with SS is amazing.
pliant wing
ye sharpened is nice, is it good to double it ?
abstract crescent
So I got 2 new azerite armors 10 ilevels higher but none have SS... do i toss tjem aside
lone junco
I keep anything over 325 in bank. Prep for balance. SS is neat. But also look out for scent (rupture) and knife throw.
lofty sand
Sim it
pliant wing
sharpened procs faster with double trait ?
pastel bough
is traits > itemlevel?
abstract crescent
I would say yes
thin plinth
so you guys are saying sin is viable
lone junco
All rogue specs are viable.
abstract crescent
Sin is fun
So the rewards pf WQ are aquired after the time expires right? I didnt get the chest yet
glacial jasper
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hollow rose
is there any information on best traits for inner rings?
lofty sand
lone junco
Inner rings are listed in bloodmallet and herodamage.
Else use top gear and select them all.
lofty sand
LiavreYesterday at 22:00
FAQ/BUGS
Frequently Asked Questions
-Use two daggers, mutilate requires two daggers to use.
-The damage part of all traits stacks, for example Shrouded Suffocation doesn't grant an extra combo point per stack but grants more damage per stack.
-Shrouded Suffocation changes the ST rotation slightly, if garrote is not on the target during stealth/subterfuge double garrote to add the extra 5.4 seconds of empowered garrote. Refresh this as late as possible to maximize empowered uptime. If there is a garrote already on the target above 5.4 seconds, only one garrote needs to be cast from stealth/subterfuge.
BUGS
-Shrouded Suffocation is currently bugged as of sept 1, If you apply 1-3 garrotes in subterfuge, and then apply another garrote outside of subterfuge, all of your garrotes lose the shrouded suffocation multiplier. The subterfuge multiplier still stays.
safe matrix
-The damage part of all traits stacks, for example Shrouded Suffocation doesn't grant an extra combo point per stack but grants more damage per stack.
lone junco
Herodamage and bloodmallet have azerite stack values.
fast fog
Yeah stop asking for help on your class and its traits in the appropriate class discord.
lofty sand
You see, we have the pins because otherwise we would answer this very same question 100 times a day
Or do you think you're the ONLY PERSON ever to ask this?
hollow rose
I did check pins, and I compared the traits with herodamage, and then simmed myself to see which was the best for me.
lone junco
The question gets answered way more than 100 times a day.
hollow rose
All I was asking was if it stacked.
Typing "yes" would be enough
heck
even a "y"
ionic crown
if you simmed it, that would answer your question
lofty sand
But the pins clearly state that the damage part stacks
ionic crown
if they didn't stack, the 2nd one obviously wouldn't be a gain
lofty sand
which part of it did you not understand?
ionic crown
plus, like leo said, the pins specifically say it stacks.
and apparently reading the resources is too much to ask of you.
wise frigate
"I checked pins, but I didn't see pinned info". 
safe matrix
"-Using emoji or reactions to harass or disparage others"
lofty sand
oh yeah what a jackass wanting you to pay the minimum amount of attention to what you're reading
strange python
don't reply with a "gay" emote, because that is most certainly against the rules
ionic crown
carry on
lone junco
@hollow rose Either ask a question that is not answered in the pins.
wise frigate
Just another day in the rogue discord.
ionic crown
rouge*
lofty sand
yeah woe you to have to make some effort
safe matrix
@fast fog @cinder lotus don't use reactions to harass others, its even in our rules. This is an unofficial warning.
cinder lotus
i took em off 😛
fast fog
cinder lotus
Harass ok haha
fast fog
Fair I suppose.
ionic crown
i got a warning from a despot for putting 3 hotdog emojis on
cinder lotus
check it again
cinder lotus
safe matrix
Yeah but you have history
ionic crown
i've been here like 2 weeks
cinder lotus
i said i took em off, so its over now.
lone junco
Tbh. Mute if it happens again.
cinder lotus
back to the rogue threat
wise frigate
I learned about you in history class Stalio. Or was that your brother?
lone junco
Luigi
ionic crown
that's mussoluigi
sick cradle
guys, I just checked herodamage and it rated fathoms really low
ionic crown
cool
sick cradle
I thought fathoms was bis?
ionic crown
it got nerfed
safe matrix
if you look at the ilvl its comparable to a 280 trinket
cinder lotus
it got nerfed
sick cradle
oh, when?
ionic crown
280 
hollow rose
A question that isnt in the pins
cinder lotus
indeed @hollow rose
hollow rose
Is there any weak auras that can track the sharpened knives stacks
lone junco
@hollow rose make one. New. Aura. Type in sharp buff name. Trigger >25
lofty sand
Someone said they did it back when the build got popular, they should still be around the wago.io
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sick cradle
I can't find any info that says it got nerfed?
ionic crown
well that's unfortunate, because it was
sick cradle
when?
ionic crown
couple weeks ago
sick cradle
what?
ionic crown
what?
sick cradle
it was top trinket on herodamage 2 days ago
lone junco
Trinkets are listed by ilvl. The 355 fathoms is better than a lot of anything below 355
ionic crown
and what ilvl where those trinks that it was being compared to
sick cradle
ohhhh, it goes up to 400ilvl trinkets now
lofty sand
fathoms was always kinda low in the herodamage thing, though I heard its great anyways
ionic crown
swatted
lone junco
Auto delete. Was that Garbo?
ionic crown
R word
sick cradle
oh shit, sorry
ionic crown
banned in this wholesome soviet discord
safe matrix
anyways you guys are being a little rowdy
abstract crescent
Whats up with azerite items with sjit traits :/ no SS on all 3 325 items i gor
safe matrix
so calm down
sick cradle
Didn't know that it was banned
safe matrix
its in the rules, I suggest that people read them.
ionic crown
stop farming the wrong zones
run the same instance 500 times you'll get the same shit trait 500 times
sick cradle
I read the rules when I joined years ago
lone junco
@abstract crescent either look up the traits ahead of time or target the azerite box reward.
ionic crown
fast fog
Imagine not reading the rules every day to make sure you're always being wholesome.
sick cradle
but is it really derogatory if said about myself 🤔
ionic crown
imagine spamming a gay reaction unironcially
safe matrix
!stop
cinder lotus
😄
ionic crown
yeah you might trigger the actual not smart people that lurk about
fast fog
Imagine not doing it.
sick cradle
implying I didn't use thinking emoji as a meme
ionic crown
trying to think of the most PC way to say that word
coral meteor
!dmc
lone junco
Offtopic tbh. Move along with the troll talk.
lofty sand
I suggest making the have a little heart on it so people don't get offended when we use it. Because it seems to always cause a negative reaction on questioners.
coral meteor
I've forgotten the command for the "fathoms is still good" bot reply 😦
safe matrix
!darkmoon
prisma monolithBOT
Darkmoon Deck: Fathoms is still a top tier trinket, even after the recent nerf. Herodamage has updated sims for this trinket, for all specs.
ionic crown
why was that deleted 
abstract crescent
@lone junco its just sad I get no items above 310 in wq so far and when I do they give the wrong traits :/
safe matrix
You know why, stop being coy with the rules.
ionic crown
hold on here
lone junco
@abstract crescent if you get 310 wq it's prob cause your ilvl is too low. I believe there is a scale in wq. To keep them relevant.
Mine are 325
quaint sequoia
gemhide or footpad?
abstract crescent
@lone junco so do I just wear the higher ilevels to get better even if that means losing 3x SS gear?
lost horizon
WQs should scale to your ilvl in bags @abstract crescent
low quail
whats the best azerite traits for assassination
lone junco
I use a lie ilvl hat for the 3x SS. Sims show it best in 3-5t. Slight loss in pure st.
I accept this.
Low*
cinder lotus
2 SS and sharpened?
main rain
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
lone junco
But you need to understand the trait. Stat. Trinket. Balance for 1T 3T and bulk cleave.
quaint sequoia
I got 3x SS 2x heed my call 1x overwhelming power on 3 340 parts ^^
lone junco
Nice.
cinder lotus
OP
frail gate
so for shuriken toss we just wait til 30 stacks and use it I guess?
lone junco
Will want to use it during ep. So don't throw cold. And during vendetta If possible.
Does the apl use it with vanish ns?
simple meteor
Shrouded Suffocation still bugged guys ?
cinder lotus
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
lone junco
As far as I know. Yes. Don't use a 4th cast.
simple meteor
i see ty
cinder lotus
what if i use a 4th cast out of sub?
versed mica
You may want to read the bot message again @cinder lotus . It says so right there
cinder lotus
😫
hazy jungle
how are my stats and what is good haste i have 14% haste 21% crit 27% mastery
weak pine
Why is Sharpened blades on top of sims?
royal forge
What war mode talents yall running? I've found system shock/creeping/mind-numbing to be fairly effective
strange python
i use the same as you except intent to kill instead of creeping
awesome for chasing runners
brisk atlas
what a good soft cap for haste?
terse drum
I think general consensus is to s
im based on your own unique gear set. However, seen many post about people feeling better above 15%
brisk atlas
oh thanks!
terse drum
No problem, if you aren't familiar with sims just drop a comment here and I am sure someone with much more knowledge than I have can get you set up
fervent beacon
scarlet sequoia
does shrouded suffocation traits stack?
like do you get say 4 extra cpoints if u have 2 of them
spring lantern
For azerite traits only damage stacks
somber otter
no just dmg
spring lantern
Everything else is a single time bonus
somber otter
didnt shroud get nerfed?
scarlet sequoia
thanks 😃
lone junco
@brisk atlas there is no soft cap for haste sin. 40% would be nice.
That's why we use simc/raidbots based on traits.
zealous lily
even with 3x shroud my 5min patchwerk for assassin is about 700 dps behind my sub and 350 behind my outlaw
lone junco
But the 3t is absurd. The apl rupture is wrong. So reality is above sim.
fleet whale
Will we ever get up to 40% haste in this expansion? Maybe the scaling will get crazy again after the second raid
lofty sand
at this point, only Mr.Blizzard knows
olive peak
Hiyo bois...new raid coming in a couple of days...which spec are you excited to try the first week in uldir?
woven snow
i think i will go with subt
lone junco
That's typ the case. Especially in a raid boss condition where vendetta isn't wasted.
strange python
Am i blind or isnt a dagger dropping at uldir?
fleet whale
two of them come from uldir
one from mother and the other from zul
mother one has better stats though
strange python
hmm i only can see a mace
fleet whale
switch loot spec
strange python
yeah thanks
fleet whale
on dungeon journal
tough lantern
is it just me or do all the rogue specs feel slow af compared to legion?
civic palm
It's just you O _O
fleet whale
sub feels about the same to me
civic palm
On a more serious note SIN lost a bunch of regen from T21, tons of crit from the artifact weapon.
fleet whale
assassin apm wise is almost the same, just feels a little more clunky cause of low crit
civic palm
Venom Rush is also different now and worse than it was in Legion.
fleet whale
it still baffles me that blizz didn't baseline that extra 3 energy into venomous wounds but what are you gonna do
tough lantern
i guess they are expecting us to get it back through all the haste we stack now
civic palm
It's more-than-likely in consideration of the changes made to haste, how much they are designing us to get, and possibly future traits.
tough lantern
oh god i just saw that pin for ss bug
mad af
tested it rn
that is fucked for M+
so basically just don't reapply garrote at all then?
untill the fall off
they*
frigid mica
Yup
zealous lily
does the sim account for the bug?
frigid mica
I don't believe it does
lone junco
@tough lantern After I understood bug. SS bangs in m+. If more than 3t, Just garrote the elites If 6elites. I set 3 rupture. vanish 3more.
Way good.
Sim doesnt even garrote a 3rd target properly.
tough lantern
alright
deft locust
ugh
lone junco
It won't overcap so it ruptures. And burns the 3rd
lone junco
Rage inducing if the tank chain pulls.
I had to yell at him for pulling just one as well.
deft locust
I bet, reliance on re-stealth is like the diff between 10k and 20k
lone junco
Outlaw can peak 40k on non elite trash. But none of that matters
I'm using 2ss 1rupture. With tab rupture and FOK HB talent.
deft locust
my outlaw can sustain about 15-18k on trash, but runs out of charges on about every 4th pack
so my dps drops to like 10k on a couple before recharges
lone junco
If you can set up 6 ruptures FOK is very very strong.
deft locust
Sin can just do 18k everytime
lone junco
Ye.
deft locust
are you rolling HB only on 30 stack?
deft locust
oh, just normal huh
you find that's better than CT? I haven't tested the last row yet
lone junco
But Tabbing 2+ ruptures on big packs push me to 5200 5400 agi.
lone junco
Ep FOK white is pretty huge.
lone junco
Yes.
deft locust
Do you find it to be better?
lone junco
I believe. That in longer pack life the rupture agi will be important.
But. Nothing matters now.
I've been avg 11k overall.
If Ss gets nerfed. I will slide 1ss 2ruptues.
deft locust
nice, my outlaw sustains a little over 10k a dungeon, I'm curious to see how sin does. The Damage on bosses is pretty decent burstwise
lone junco
But. That's why I have fuck load of gear.
deft locust
I have 4 mythics to run today, I'll get a lot of field testing
vocal moon
im sure sin will be a lot better than outlaw after fully uldir geared
deft locust
unfort my only rupture shoulders are my outlaws, costing me 1k to reforge atm. So will just have to go with 3 ss for the time being
lone junco
I'm still 80g
deft locust
nice haha
lone junco
Have DS and SS on my 840 shoulder
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
frail gate
!ss
lone junco
Tbh. I think outlaw will be more flexible for m+. If your group has a snare.
DS is too solid for st and cleave.
But.
For me it comes down to group comp.
deft locust
for sure, if the mobs are packed together I think I'll play outlaw, but if no control sin feels pretty great
lone junco
And outlaw can chain pull drag and not give any fucks.
deft locust
ye
lone junco
Outlaw cc is better.
Gouge and bte is nice.
And the infinity cleave is always nice.
vocal moon
i miss old BF lmao
lone junco
But if the packs stay 2-5 sin is easy pz
Nah. I like this better and blade rush is so nice.
vocal moon
meh i guess thats just me
deft locust
BR is great
nice for pvp too
low cd chase
and potential cleave
as well as Energy regen for the cost of 1 gcd
vocal moon
it gives energy regen?
deft locust
25 over 5 seconds I think?
deft locust
ah no lol
on the note of Subterfuge
is it not feasible to get 4 garrotes off/
I am getting 3 garrotes and a cheapshot
before my bar dissapears
is the 4th one not gonna trigger properly?
I see people are suggesting 3 garrotes in mutli-targets
lone junco
3and a cheapshot will be best until bug is fixed.
If that 4th bugs you might as well not have any traits on.
deft locust
fair enough
lone junco
Prey 10% is still good.
deft locust
on dummy testing, after about 800k CT with triple SS is about 19-20k dps
on 4 targets
lone junco
Pushes you way over cap.
tawdry breach
Hi guys, I'm currently running with 2x SS Azerite traits, and I have a question about our AoE opener. Is it correct to be overcapping on combo points when garroting 3 targets in the subterfuge window?
lone junco
3G CT. FOK rupture spread?
lone junco
Ill run that next time.
deft locust
I wonder if SS will fall off in very high mythics
Sin cleave even without it is better than I thought it'd be
tawdry breach
Sorry for repeating, but does someone know an answer to my question?
tawdry breach
"I'm currently running with 2x SS Azerite traits, and I have a question about our AoE opener. Is it correct to be overcapping on combo points when garroting 3 targets in the subterfuge window?"
lone junco
@tawdry breach 3rd garrote in open is good.
lone junco
Just don't do the 4th garrote.
tawdry breach
Cool thank you
lone junco
It's really just more than the cp equivalent.
tawdry breach
Oh yeah, that is because it's bugged atm right?
lone junco
Yes.
tawdry breach
Sucks :/
lone junco
@deft locust anyway. Seli believes that in fat trash with 8+ tabbed ruptures. No class will sustain better.
deft locust
Oh, I didn't mean sin in general I meant SS
lone junco
For high keys.
lone junco
Meaning. Yes. SS will fall off.
lone junco
3scent
deft locust
how interesting
I actually appreciate the lack of cd's we have to burn
to perform so well on trash
lone junco
I still have blue daggers. But the kit is good.
deft locust
Ah, I feel you friend
lone junco
And I'm still beating people 10ilvls up.
deft locust
my best weapon is the 330 dagger we got on NA horde on a world quest today
lone junco
Wot
deft locust
unfort outlaw is in same situation
lone junco
There was a blue axe
deft locust
for NA horde?
lone junco
Is na horde dagger still up for a while
lone junco
K
deft locust
or, right-ish
somewhere around barrowknoll cemetery
it was a quest to purge a forest
deft locust
nice gl, I'm glad we exchanged that cuz I missed the axe in tiragarde haha
4 hours, chance of wf I'll take anything atm D:
onyx falcon
yea... i prayed for a titanforge... didnt get it.. DE'd it
lone junco
I haven't gotten a lot of tf. So my time is coming.
onyx falcon
in coming 355 tittyforge leech socketed for noobe?
lone junco
I'll take avoidance.
tough lantern
no dagger wq up fro na ally?
onyx falcon
they got like... 3 340 wep questis already
lone junco
But the big ole tiddyforge.
lone junco
I got outlaw weps first night of m0
deft locust
D:
lone junco
versed osprey
I thought weapons couldnt titanforge?
twilit owl
Whats your opinion in assa rogue for pvp guys ? It makes Fun to Play and im gonna Stay it , but it feels like sub or outlaw is much better
deft locust
Uh
Sin is good for burst
but I think both outlaw and sub will be better for competitive, and sub moreso than the former
twilit owl
The sharpend blade looks so ridicioulus. Actually Thinking to farm me some of that gear to Play sub
weak pine
Farm gear
Ahahaha
Good luck tho
It took me 100+ heroics during the first week to get both hands to 325
3 weeks of m0s and no daggers
twilit owl
I only Need 1 More azerite gear and k got it 3x. Its Not a Big deal
weak pine
At least I got a 345 honorbound emissary dagger warforge
The fact that it was fixed merely 3 days after it was given to me eases my pain
deft locust
haha
unkempt ledge
do you guys ever use crimson tempest on bosses if you talent it?
weak pine
Crimson tempest? What's that 
velvet magnet
did shadowmeld buff garrote in legion or has that never been the case?
deft locust
I use crimson tempest, but idk if it's good forbosses @unkempt ledge
I somehow doubt it
wise whale
i would think to not use it st targets
wise whale
then sure
deft locust
👍🏽
lone junco
@unkempt ledge never use CT in single target. Bosses with add waves are fine. But not worth using unless it hits more than one target.
Easy to change apl to use in 1T condition and hold uptime.
And compare copy to not casting it. Vs pb.
valid dawn
Hey, decided to return to my rogue. I love assa but my group is telling me to go sub for m+ ;-; Is assa really not on the same level as sub?
lofty sand
High level keys Assassination does well, low level not so much
deft locust
honestly
autumn bloom
yeah i think fortified weeks sin should do fine
deft locust
your group doesn't know what's up o_o
Sub for m+?
Unless they just need you for ST
autumn bloom
uhh
spice surge
Is shrouded suffocation really bugged? Without it on a dummy my garrote ticks for 1.8k, with it the ticks hit for around 3.4k
autumn bloom
subs aoe is insane with sectec
spice surge
Thats not 511 more damage 🤔
deft locust
it's bugged
lofty sand
deft locust
what is insane
lofty sand
the bug is different, damage is applying up to a point
autumn bloom
they're about even
valid dawn
Hmmm I guess i'll give sub a try for the lower keys
spice surge
Where is the bug im talking about in the pins? Its just the multiple target ones, maybe tooltips are just fucked as usual 🤷
autumn bloom
tbh you could probably make sin work in a comp
deft locust
but I wouldn't play the spec cuz guildies aren't researching your class
autumn bloom
as long as you have other strong trash cleave
halcyon jolt
Hello!
deft locust
only do it if it works for you
halcyon jolt
Emblem of Zandalar or Dead Eye Spyglass
deft locust
most likely.. dead eye, but ye. Best to sim friend
halcyon jolt
My other trinket is the Dice from Freehold
I was searching and comparing DPS
but they are so similar
that's why I came here to ask
wise whale
sim it
lofty sand
Sim is the best way since we have no idea what are your stats
deft locust
lofty sand
raidbot
autumn bloom
theres a guide to simming on ravenholdt
warm sable
If i attack single target and my opener from stealth is Garotte than again Garotte (i have Subterfuge) is it gonna tick higher dmg? Because sometimes it looks like it did more dmg than normal rotation.
autumn bloom
wut
lone junco
@spice surge SS bugs at the out of subterfuge application.
But 3x garrote on 3 mobs is like 18k
spice surge
It just seems like the tooltip is only 66% of what it actually does
lone junco
Only takes 20sec for that to run its course. So if trash is dying in less than 10 sec
a. It is insignificant.
B. Repeat a.
Subterfuge. And ep and haste multiply the base. On top of the SS.
spice surge
Without subterfuge it increased my garrote dmg from 1.1k to 1.9k.
lone junco
10k ticks.
spice surge
And tooltip says 500
lone junco
3x trait.
Yeah. I don't understand the tooltip to output math.
But it's pretty bonkers.
deft locust
yeah it is
spice surge
I was just curious if sims take into account the tooltip or the actual numbers, since the numbers seem to be like 50% higher (ontop of being multiplied by subterfuge lmao)
lone junco
The only reason I would like sub over that is to dump st into an Infest.
Apl for 3t is wrong. It is rupturing.
There is zero chance that I won't garrote a 3rd unique target.
deft locust
^
lone junco
It's avoiding the overcap.
autumn bloom
if you trip garrote you're wasting 4 cp
lone junco
You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
lone junco
Have you used 3x SS?
spice surge
Garrote does more than rupture anyway
lofty sand
The damage is worth the cp waste
autumn bloom
i never said it didnt
autumn bloom
what happened
fresh ginkgo
just alot of bitching of how rogues are op
autumn bloom
thats nothing new lol
fresh ginkgo
ye but i never visit the forums
autumn bloom
breaking news> rogues are good
civic palm
Always, even when we're the bottom of the DPS chart.
knotty storm
What's the top dps rogue spec atm? Asking for a friend <3
deft locust
sub for st
knotty storm
Like ST
deft locust
outlaw close behind
gloomy stump
knotty storm
So how far behind is assassin?
gloomy stump
sin isnt the easiest, combat is easier
knotty storm
Lol ok thanks guys, sorry to start a little argument
deft locust
all good
gloomy stump
you literally have 2 buttons to press, how isnt that easier
autumn bloom
wut
fresh ginkgo
assassin is the most fun 
deft locust
than rtb snek or ds outlaw
which are far more complicated than sin in every way
I mean, that's not a bad thing
sin is great
but don't argue falsities
autumn bloom
i mean no rogue spec is particularly complex atm
deft locust
that's also true
sub prolly takes the cake, but that's just cuz it's a longer rotation
nothing really dynamic about it
gloomy stump
🐍 build is the best build
gloomy stump
you deal most damage, dont listen to haters
you see other people have to press so many buttons that after a few dungeons their fingers hurt and they start pressing less and less
while when you are snek, you only press 2
and you can go all day
mossy hazel
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
deft locust
rtb snek is more complex than ds build, despite meme snek being 2 buttons
gloomy stump
ye its more complex but thats like saying pigeon shit tastes better then dog shit
in the end both are shit
civic palm
than*
deft locust
oi.
civic palm
s h i t
lofty sand
Isnt that build already flagged for a nerf/fix?
deft locust
not that I heard of
civic palm
Flagged?
deft locust
but most likely
even though it's not good compared to a real outlaw build, dagger being even somewhat viable and only using 2 skills
is a recipe for a nerf
gloomy stump
nah why would it ? it does the least dmg, even less then exg sin
deft locust
For no other reason than blizz not liking
that someone is using a dagger
on their chosen sword/fist/axe rogue class
really it comes down to that, it's not gonna be changing the game in any meaningful way. Meme snek isn't good
weary atlas
Do you think they'll make it so we can't use a dagger in the offhand?
autumn bloom
i mean the fact we cant use mut without two daggers
weary atlas
Oh I just fear they'll do a blanket nerf and just make it so Outlaw can't use daggers
OH
autumn bloom
oh
autumn bloom
i doubt that will happen
deft locust
I doubt it
frigid mica
The powah of Sin compels you...back to your 2 button den of sneks!! 😉
gloomy stump
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
gloomy stump
does poison bomb really do so little singletarget damage or doesnt it sim right? i mean its a 300 dps loss
autumn bloom
loss? vs hb?
lone junco
Pb is like 2.5% of your damage in ST.
deft locust
yikes
gotta love damage increase bosses
just ended the first boss of motherlode with 41k damage on sin
warm plaza
damn
timber mauve
does anyone know if Battlefield focus works in pve?
knotty storm
Can someone tell me what snek build is lol?
tough topaz
knotty storm
Thanks
lusty nacelle
Are SIMs taking into account the typo in poisoned wire? it currently increases the crit chance on the next 2 mutilates, not just the first 1.
Also, why is shrouded suffocation stacking ranking so highly? Is there some kind of hidden multiplicative function that makes the added damage scale highly?
strange python
subterfuge
not sure about the first question, poisoned wire sims pretty low anyway
lusty nacelle
poisoned wire increases the critical strike chance of your next 2 mutilates.
the tooltip says increases the next mutilate
lone junco
Crit Two mutilates. Wut. Lame.
lusty nacelle
wouldn't that be better than a few thousand added damage every 2 minutes?
we get that crit bonus every 15 seconds
lone junco
I'll check what a 3x SS. double garrote adds over the subterfuge.
deft locust
yikes
Someone just flamed me in arena when I mentioned
I ran sin for m's tonight
Apparently the damage I did was irrelevant, cuz if the spec is stereotyped to be bad that means you are dumb for running it
Gotta love fellow rogues sometimes
civic palm
there's your problem
deft locust
true enough
lone junco
@deft locust enjoy the 3garrote opens?
Felt weird not garrote the other targets. But bugs be buggin
deft locust
yes
it was pretty nice
was holding around 18k a pack on average if I got all three off
15k on 2 targets
and about 13k ST
held 40k on the first boss of motherlode
that was fun
lone junco
Felt bad in packs of 15x trash.
deft locust
crimson tempest helsp
lone junco
But that's what happens. Cant be god of the world I guess.
deft locust
I was winning against our dk in big trash packs too with crimson
strange python
i forget the name of the talent, and at work so i can't confirm... however should we be using our 120 talent that does the AOE bleed or env our primary target while only using AOE ability to refresh the 12s bleed?
deft locust
as long as they didnt die immediately
we still breach 20k with a 5cp crimson opener and 2 garrotes
strange python
crimson is the AOE last tier talent, yeah?
fleet whale
Crimson tempest needs a visual update
deft locust
yes
strange python
should we prio crimson over enven on big pulls, or just keep the dot up?
lone junco
in prepatch we were spamming CT in trash, but now E is scarce.
nocturne gate
is it generally worth to use a lower simming trinket if i has socket ?
frigid mica
Raidbots has the ability to account for sockets under its Gear Compare
pine torrent
@abstract crescent nightborne isnt great for dps afaik but racial abilities only give tiny dps increases, i would go with whichever looks cooler in your opinion
barren spindle
troll bb!
strange python
nelf for life
barren spindle
was a dagger earlier
calm cobalt
not on ally us
barren spindle
thats the issue :^)
lone junco
340 purple Azerite box. bring me loots.
civic palm
G L
lone junco
so far I have 3 ss. 3 ds. 3 snake. 1 rupture. hoping to get another fat rupture or a higher ilvl ds hat.
sacred seal
Noobe as you wrote about lacking dos on 15+ pulls, get some eng bombs. It isn't sharing cd with pot and u can use both at once
It will literally explode your dps on 50k+ on these packd
fast canopy
Can someone xplain why Shrouded Suffocation is top tier for azerite traits. It seems like its only useful every 2 minutes
fast canopy
Does the damage stack with each garrote or only from stealth?
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
fast canopy
So even in its current state it's better than Dagger in the Back? Which is likely to proc more often within the 2 minutes?
(unsure of it's proc rate)
lone junco
current state is fine for ST. fine for 2T. fine for 3T. gets awk after that.
fast canopy
Alright just wanted to make sure the gear I was farming for was worth while lol. Thanks for the help yall
opaque grotto
Well at the beginning of a boss you have the empowered garrote for like 50 seconds because of vanish
fast canopy
What do you mean by empowered garrote? like Stealth>Garrote>Rupture>Wait 18 Seconds Until Garrote Falls Off>Vanish>Garrote?
That'd be 36 seconds unless you're accounting for something im missing and thats where i'm confused at lol
main blaze
You do a double garrote opener
Garrote > Garrote > Rupture
Thats 23seconds
Then vanish and double garrote
so more like 46 seconds but he rounded
halcyon kayak
that's 2T right? wouldn't the second garrote just overwrite since its not in pandemic window?
fast canopy
Wouldnt Garrote>Garrote just reapply the debuff?
halcyon kayak
in st
main blaze
No ST
You pandemic the 18s garrote with the second application
you also get 5 CPs for rupture
and garrote costs less energy than mutilate
lost horizon
the 5.4 extra seconds (from pandemic) of garrote is worth more than mut
fast canopy
Ok im out of the loop on what pandemic is
lost horizon
when you refresh a buff early
main blaze
30% of the dot gets added to the new dot
lost horizon
up to 30% duration is added
garrote's baseline duration is 18sec
30% of that is 5.4sec
so if you double garrote you get 23.4sec
fast canopy
Is it like a trait? I dont have a pandemic passive?
lost horizon
no
main blaze
pandemic has been a thing since WoD for most classes and since MoP for Warlocks
slender peak
pandemic just means you cant get more than added than whats left on the pandemic. If you refresh early you get the max pandemic added on
fast canopy
Wow... i had absolutely no idea
halcyon kayak
oh i had no idea pandemic was a stack, i thought it only procced below 30%
lost horizon
it's just a game mechanic so that you don't have to refresh DoTs right as they expire
halcyon kayak
didnt realize it capped
lone junco
and AND the double garrote extends it out past the vendetta
lost horizon
it caps at 30%, if you refresh with less you'll get however much less it is
fast canopy
I'm going to go see a training dummy right now
halcyon kayak
nice thanks
lost horizon
so if you refresh your garrote with 3 seconds remaining you'll only get+3 on the new garrote
slender peak
if you refresh before the 30% you only get the 30% but you just miss out on the full ticks of your privious application
yes
halcyon kayak
yeah idk why i thought that if you refreshed above 30% you got nothing
slender peak
but if you refresh at 15s you will get I think 7s? something like that what ever 30% is
lost horizon
nah, it's just that at or below 30% is the point where you waste nothing
lone junco
it doesnt really matter if you take 3 sec empowered and add to the next or you take 5 sec and add to the next.
halcyon kayak
cool
lost horizon
@slender peak no
the 30% is factored in from the duration of the overwrite
hence why rupture has different pandemic ranges
slender peak
yea but it caps out on garrote around 7s
main blaze
On things like rupture it matters how many combo points you used on the rupture as well.
lost horizon
depending on how many CP you refresh at
the cap on garrote is 5.4sec
and that's constant
slender peak
er yea 5.4 my math is off lol
lost horizon
rupture is variable based on CP
slender peak
correct
but for opening rupture pandemic isnt important its the garrote that you want to pandemic buff for the full subterfuge SS buffed garrote
lone junco
you want that EP started asap
slender peak
yea
lost horizon
there was a point w/exsang where you'd baby rupture to get a pandemic'd rupture to exsang in opener but
lone junco
now. since no PB and no SoT. baby ruptures are fine
lost horizon
i haven't really kept up with sin much, i'm sure that's no longer the case with phat garrote
aren't baby ruptures still energy inefficient?
lone junco
overall. 2cp ruptures are a tiny loss.
lost horizon
that's hilarious
lone junco
as SS tho. my prio is 100% ep uptime for the first 40 sec. not sure its gonna happen tho
lost horizon
🤷 depends on crit luck
main blaze
yeah there is that really slow period of energy regen
lone junco
I feeeell. that 100% ep for the 23 sec is doable
lost horizon
sin seems to be in a really weird spot imo
main blaze
I really like Assn for cleave damage, aoe is alright and ST still feels a little slow
The damage is ther
e
lone junco
3x SS is so good.
main blaze
but the feeling is slow
lost horizon
i just feel like there's nothing to do
like multi target is cool
2-3 sustain is always awesome, glad they lowered the base CD on garrote
loved T20 2p
main blaze
Yeah 2T and 3T really feels like a hell of a rotation
lost horizon
but idk KB was one of the only somewhat interesting abilities in the rotation
lone junco
if seli is right, 5T -8T is going to be amazing.
with 3x scent.
im still 1x there tho.
lost horizon
it was pretty straightforward in legion before but there were things you could do to minmax, even if you didn't see improvement immediately cause overshadowed by PB luck
strange python
Who cares at this point
main blaze
Yeah I need to get into like 5-10+ mythic plus to see how the scent will do with sustained aoe
right now shit dies so fast
lone junco
no one. why bother playing. its just dum game right
strange python
Trait rebalancing coming in a week
main blaze
What is the point of life
lone junco
thats why I kept all my loots. balance is neigh.
gonna be annoyed when they buff Blindside and gut subterfuge
civic palm
Just don't stack anything, lower chance of getting blown out 👌
main blaze
I dont mind blindside but I like Subterfuge + SS
stark heart
Just sandbag and play poorly
main blaze
Band together the first week
civic palm
Be the warrior you are on the inside.
civic palm
Twist is fiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.
main blaze
We need to change all of the pins and FAQ and herodamage information to really bad info so our numbers look really low
snek time noobe
lone junco
already had a snek hat. so rip.
lone junco
thanks.
main blaze
lol
lone junco
my outlaw shit is all over the place.
civic palm
If anything, Twist might get buuuuffed > _>
fast canopy
Anyone have an updated list on BiS from dungeons currently? couldnt find it in the guide
found similar on wowhead but it seems to be wrong as the azerite traits on the ones they choose arent for shrouded suffocation
civic palm
Considering the possible shuffle in Trait power rankings, no.
Considering your gear is different from other gear and WF/TFing exists, no.
stark heart
Just wait till tuning pass
Your bank should be big enough to keep all potential pieces
civic palm
Especially the 340's
main blaze
Then blizz does something odd and buffs poisoned wire traits and everyone here is like "wtf I have 0 of those"
fast canopy
Probably a dumb question but is it every worth it to drop from a 340 to a 330 based on an azerite trait?
warm parcel
Poison wire now converts your next muti into a tactical nuke
main blaze
lol
civic palm
They might just buff the stuff you can get rarely in M+/Raids and make the things that will easily stack worse than they are now.
main blaze
new rotation is garrote on CD.
candid kayak
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
versed mica
Wait, when did poison wire get buffed?
civic palm
It hasn't been.
versed mica
Oh. So it is going to be soon? Or was what I read speculation?
civic palm
No way to know.
main blaze
I was just being fecetious
Tuning will happen in a week and we'll have to adjust traits and whatnot accordingly
versed mica
Gotchya
strange python
@versed mica use that time to stockpile azerite pieces :)
versed mica
👌
stark heart
Tuning will happen in a week and we'll have to adjust traits and whatnot accordingly
Maybe even spec
final stone
so assai is going to be top notch in uldir!
im kind of in the same boat lol
im happy to play sub or assi
but no way outlaws lol
jovial kite
assa got already nerfed
so heres to hoping assa wont be tuned as much
im feelycrafting top traits will not be affected
but theyll buff things like twist etc
kindred cedar
Where did u read tuning will happen?
warm parcel
History of wow
vernal sinew
Guys, why master poison, look dps lost than elaborate planning?
strange python
SS is fine
kindred cedar
It is?
kindred cedar
Isnt it still bugged?
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
kindred cedar
Ah i see
vestal dune
If you have a normal garrote and then apply new garrotes from stealth while keeping the normal one, the stealth ones work fine with ss, right?
The bug only happens when applying a normal garrote after the stealthed ones?
devout jolt
yes, the bug is the first garrote post subterfuge
so 3 subterfuge garrotes with ss buff - 4th non subterfuge garrote will remove the buff off your first 3 opener garrotes
vestal dune
Alright, thanks
west frost
Did someone say pandemic numbers were different for different cp ruptures?
autumn bloom
it's 30% of the total duration of the rupture you are currently applying
west frost
I guess that makes sense but I should factor it if I'm 4cping a rupture
lost horizon
yes
if you apply a 4 CP rupture at the standard like 7.2 sec as if it were a 5CP
you're wasting a bit
west frost
Luckily Im greedy and wait forever to reapply rupture
lost horizon
the only time it's important to hit max pandemic is if you're snapshotting a garrote with subterfuge
or a rupture w/NS if that ever comes back into style
otherwise it's pretty much just a cushion of 'refresh between 0-30% remaining'
frigid mica
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
candid phoenix
guys
any1 else has reached 17%+ haste and saw Mastery becoming the #1 weighted stat? 😄
hazy iron
nope, im at 18% haste and it's still best for me
hazy iron
crit 22% haste 18% mastery 20% verse 2%
candid phoenix
i have 20/17/25/3
and sims tell me that my stats are currently mast/crit/haste xD
hazy iron
are you using master poisoner?
jovial kite
candid phoenix
maybe cus of my traits
3xSS 2x HmC 1x OvP
mastery buffs SS way too much so maybe sims are right
hazy iron
im 2x ss 2x HMC 1x DitB and 1x Ovp
so you have 1 trait different to me, heh
maybe mastery just becomes more valuable the more you have of it, or something
strange python
Softcap of what
candid phoenix
haste
candid phoenix
royal lantern
gale callers will pull your hasts stat weight down, it gets higher when you change trinkets
not everyone can be a FotM sub
hazy iron
i sim about 12.8 with my sub gear
hazy iron
it's your trinket
candid phoenix
it was way ahead while i had 15%