not that much
#assassination
dapper plover
royal lantern
you never hold it more then 3 sec if i remember right?
was not worth for more then that
dapper plover
when im at 15% i can almost get it
lofty sand
I just wanted something other than PB, active skill not a passive.
thorny bone
hey homies does SS still not work with subterfuge
dapper plover
just want an xact number to work towards 😄
nimble tartan
thats what they said, but u see the big brainer logs they hard held
civic palm
If you looked at their logs then they didn't.
trim dirge
I’m big brain and I didn’t :)
royal lantern
use on cd except there is a small cd difference like 2-3 seconds, thats how i did it
void pecan
If you have to say you're big brained....
nimble tartan
i just personally know a lot of people who did hard hold in world 5-15 guilds
civic palm
That's great.
vestal wren
beeing in a top guild does not mean you play perfect
civic palm
or even optimally.
stuck shuttle
people seem to forget that logs also depend on how well your other raid members do
vestal wren
it often means you have a lot of time you spend on the game
vestal wren
killing the boss first means you have good logs 😉
stuck shuttle
^
nimble tartan
im just saying i think it was the play early on prog
trim dirge
Getting the killing blow is what matters tbh
civic palm
@vestal wren You know anything about this bug with Shrouded Suffocation flagging falling off prior targets from applying a Garrote outside of the SS/SUB window?
vestal wren
e.g. my first imonar kill was better then a 100%tile log with me having worse setup/gear 🤷 time is relevant
nimble tartan
ye u and a bunch of others who dont log
civic palm
They logged.
stuck shuttle
people depend on logs wayyy too much
civic palm
Just privately.
nimble tartan
ye im saying comparing to the top public
civic palm
and the publically.
Top public log probably had 2/3x PBOMB averages.
Their play at that point being almost irrelevant.
nimble tartan
like i got r1 mythic avatar when i killed it and that was first time on sin cause i was sub main, obv know how to play but def not the top considering my weapon was super low
vestal wren
there are a lot of reasons not to log public
nimble tartan
and i know a bunch of others privately did higher
vestal wren
but one thing to also keep in mind, top logs often mean you are allowed to cheese a lot or play only a minimum of boss mechanics
stuck shuttle
^
nimble tartan
right i understand fuu lmao
civic palm
Well low killtimes and cheesing.
lofty sand
Sometimes I wonder if people play with the robotic precision that they preach, I feel like a shitter reading this chat, because most of the time I'm winging it, I try my best do be optimal but often mechanics get in the way.
vestal wren
logs are not a good measurement tool for skill, ppl just take them as such
nimble tartan
i value prog logs over farm logs
stuck shuttle
like I said, logs are also a representation of how well your group does as a whole
nimble tartan
i dont even care about farm
vestal wren
i dont care about logs, my sub logs where insane before i published my apl/knowlage tho 😛
sinful flint
Is the Multi Target build the way to go for Council bosses?
I'm looking to use assa as an offspec for where its stronger than sub
nimble tartan
im sure they were kkona
lofty sand
You face them one at time though, why would you multi target??
sinful flint
Oh I meant multiple bosses at the same time
stuck shuttle
the ST build does fine with 2-3 targets
lofty sand
oh, the ST build does well enough on cleave
thorny bone
Anyone else noticing shrouded suffocation still not working in combination with subterfuge? This still a bug everyone else is dealing with?
stuck shuttle
with FoK spam + garrotes + rupture spread
sinful flint
so Crimson tempest is 4+
lofty sand
and spread out
sinful flint
You would, but when does Crimson tempest beat Poison bomb?
stuck shuttle
that seems like a question for sims
lofty sand
When PB never procs 😉
sinful flint
@lofty sand so always when I need it, got it, using CT forever now
thorny bone
@stuck shuttle is your SS damage component working properly?
stuck shuttle
someone in here mentioned its bugged if you use garrote outside of subt
lofty sand
yeah thats what I run, I hate depending on RNG for damage
stuck shuttle
so you have to wait for garrote to fully tick off before reapplying out of subt buff
atleast thats what was explained earlier
thorny bone
I'm not seeing the damage component showing up at all in subterfuge on my meter/in logs after combat.
stuck shuttle
Im sure SS is working fine as my meters were showing stupid numbers for garrote damage yesterday
only bug is if you garrote outside of subt
lofty sand
Its working, it has been talked about here to the exhaustion
sinful flint
There is too many things in rogue shortened to SS
sinful flint
Shadow Strike, Shadow Step, Sinister Strike, Shrouded Suffication
And probably more
stuck shuttle
blizzard loves to add shadow in front of everything
lofty sand
its rogueish
thorny bone
So I take it the damage component just doesn't show up as something different and is just included in garrote? Would make sense since garrote is always my highest dmg by a mile.
stuck shuttle
yeah theres no meter for ss
thorny bone
Gotcha.
stuck shuttle
your garrote is just super strong
I only have 2 stacks and my ticks were critting for 15k
if only they didn't nerf it 😿
grim sail
They nerfed SS? 😦
opaque grotto
The nerf was probably needed considering it’s still insane post-nerf
stuck shuttle
last hotfix they did
nerfed damage by 11% i believe
yeah it may have been justified lol
opaque grotto
And of the 2 target bosses you just blow everyone out of the water
grim sail
It felt so nice though
opaque grotto
Any*
grim sail
Was it a ninja nerf? Cant see it anywhere in patch notes
opaque grotto
They nerfed it in the same patch they fixed it
grim sail
Alright
So they figured sin would absolutely destroy other classes on 2-3 target bossfights?
stuck shuttle
well the damage is insane as it is now
but it would make both sub and sin top melee specs
grim sail
Hmmm ya think? 11% nerf on SS isn't anything big really
opaque grotto
sin still does destroy on 2-3 targets
stuck shuttle
11% is rougly the difference between sub and sin right now
grim sail
Maybe
civic palm
It's also not 10% of your total DMG.
stuck shuttle
well yes obviously
but garrote is taking up a majority of our damage right now
so 10% to garrote would make a huge impact
or 11%
candid phoenix
that 11% nerf was added when they fixed the SS bugg
so we never actually got nerfed
stuck shuttle
when they fixed the ss bug is when they actually nerfed the 11%
vapid fiber
Hello , I have a question about stats
In Legion haste was the less desiderable stat while we pumped mastery because it increased the poison's damage to absurd levels
Now in BfA mastery still increases rhe poison's damage, but in the guides haste is indicated as the most desiderable stat while mastery is at the bottom of the list
What change in the spec made haste so valuable? Is it because we're at the beginning of the expansion and it's still bot possible to overpump mastery?
candid phoenix
@vapid fiber 1st of all haste scales with all of our dots now, and mastery got nerfed a lot. it doesnt increase as much as it used to in legion
vapid fiber
haste does increase the ticking?
trim token
that BCD part contradicts what someone said last night that GCD is always 1s and doesnt scale with haste
candid phoenix
as of 8.0.1 u wanna go for Haste > Crit > Mastery > Versa
trim token
GCD*
candid phoenix
our GCD is at 1s anyway
stuck shuttle
and yes haste increases the ticking
trim token
yep
vapid fiber
ok, you guys were very clear thanks
candid phoenix
i reached 17.5% haste and its REKing atm
vapid moth
I have the same haste and 20 crit
candid phoenix
and i would have more if my leather craft gave haste, but luck is luck
stuck shuttle
none of the current gear really matters rn tbh
once we start getting into the higher ilvls
sin is going to scale hard
quick egret
Guys a quick questions, quick navigation on main hand and deadly on off hand right?
I think I have them the other way round, would that make much of a difference in terms of dps?
primal violet
as far as im aware, those enchants are only triggered from auto attacks, not abilities, and therefore if ur using the same speed weapons, it should not matter
please correct me if im wrong and provide a source but thats what ive heard from several people now
quick egret
So it doesnt matter that I have deadly on my main hand and quick on my offhand? Phew!
didnt really want to buy more weapon enchants lol
primal violet
it shouldnt
quick egret
ok sweet! Thanks for the help! Currently simming at 11,925 so I was wondering whether me enchanting them incorrectly could push me into the 12k bracket!
primal violet
switching to sub would probably push u into 13k
tbh
if ur simming at that in assassin
quick egret
Yeah I know...I just dont like sub lmao. Assassin for life ❤
main blaze
Haste doesnt lower our gcd
primal violet
^ lol
violet sonnet
Will shrouded ever get fixed this year? Find out next week.
quick egret
Isn't it fixed already?
main blaze
Another bug with it popped up
violet sonnet
^
quick egret
Ooo what bug this time?
main blaze
If you have a buffed garrote from SS and you apply a garrote to another target that is not buffed, it unbuffs all the other garrotes
quick egret
wtf lmao
At least it works on pure single target though lol
Blizzard taking baby steps with it 😂
main blaze
It works on multi target, just dont apply the 4th garrote
until the buffed ones fall off
quick egret
Gotchu! Thanks 😄
keen hound
Why would a pair of shoulders with Meticulous Scheming be simming higher than a pair with Shrouded Suffocation? (Same ilv)
stuck shuttle
how many other stacks of SS do you have?
stuck shuttle
that could be because of the haste from meticulous scheming
if you don't have enough haste
that could outweigh the SS trait
vapid moth
I crave haste
keen hound
sitting at 16.21% haste
vapid moth
Did you know at over 100% haste your poisons in bleed tick every 0.9s
stuck shuttle
the extra haste may be more valuable to your current setup
median stream
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
main blaze
Is one of your pieces a pvp piece and the other a pve one? Might be because of your neck level
keen hound
Just seems odd from the pins looking at the traits charts. Seems like the SS should definitely come out ahead.
Nope no pvp pieces
I mean it's not a "huge" dps difference ( .8%) 11,282 vs 11,377. Just surprised me 😂
civic palm
As an update my SIN WA's should be updated more frequently come raid release.
strange python
ok so why is there a 350 dagger with less dps compared to a 310 :/ https://www.wowhead.com/item=163958/freezies-bubble-popper#comments
keen hound
int
keen hound
caster dagger 😂
strange python
maybe i should pay more attention to what i am looking at.
keen hound
Yeah I saw one in trade chat the other day and was about to buy it b/c it was cheap then noticed it was int 😂
strange python
dodged a bullet there buddy
same with me
why are Sin shafted in weapon seleciton compared to outlaw who can equipe swords and fists weapon...like fists really?
main blaze
Cause daggers
strange python
i pains me to see my 340+ gear sin to run around with 310 blues...it hurts ALOT
digital plinth
Hello guys am new here .. 346 Assasin rogue (rudepoison) .. am confused about the trait thing ... i mean the stacking .. whats the best best 1st trait .. and do garrrote stack ? and do daggers worth putting 2 of em ?
please answer me its important thanks cheers
digital plinth
stacks ?
digital plinth
so 2 shrouded or 1 dagger or 2 dagger 1 shrouded ? or ther is better setup ?
digital plinth
u sure about that ? 😄
main blaze
Yeah
stuck shuttle
aren't you the one asking for advice
keen hound
Shrouded is best for everyone but me 😂
chilly oasis
ocean nebula
wow exar im irritated a bit
ocean nebula
how much haste u got ? that it drops behind mastery?
livid zinc
remove the galecaller trinket and replace it with another and you'll get different stat weights
cinder palm
Crit seems pretty favored for sin when you’re below like 20% or so too
I dropped some crit for haste and I actually simmed higher with more crit and a bit less haste
grim mason
Anyone have just a Poison reminder WA's
ocean nebula
why is my dps with nearly same ilvl 1-2k less then others
maiden raptor
@ocean nebula i guess it's because you're using Crimson Tempest maybe?
ocean nebula
ah yeah sure thats a good point 😄
ancient lichen
Also could be not having as many gem sockets. They tend to push your dps by quite a bit.
elfin raft
does it matter if theres a dagger in your OH in assass, well duh yeah for the speed right
civic palm
You need DAGGER(S) for Mutilate
trail ridge
and no ring enchants
elfin raft
o yeah there u go
mutilate
must of done it for an ilvl loot thing
backstab also requried 2 daggers right, there was NEVER any dagger move that let you have 1 MH dagger, right?
and OH some sword/mace/fist
or did something crazy happen in the last 10 yrs
royal lantern
backstab doesnt need 2 daggers in bfa
sin needs 2 daggers too use all skills,
sub can use all skills with MH dagger offhand any 1h weapon
but you want too use 2 daggers as sub too
keen hound
So just got chest and shoulders both with SS and putting both on (replacing Meticulous Scheming and Dagger in the Back) same ilv... feeling quite perplexed as to why 2x ss isn't better than meticulous scheming and dagger in the back.
delicate gull
is SS extra dmg per tick or overall?
hybrid chasm
overall, but still scales with mastery i think
slender peak
@strange python you have no idea how many rogues messaged me when I was trying to sell one of those daggers in trade chat. I would reply you know its a caster dagger right?? And i would get ...oh every time. The dagger struggle is real 😂
slender peak
Im on 2 so far got 2 got one more chance this week
Two weeks of nothing and then 2 in a row yesterday
calm barn
same here
2 weeks 0 drops from either hc or myth, then 2 outlaw weapons from WQ
and this week
3 daggers in 5 mythics so far
is there a way to sim enchants before buying them?
slender peak
Yea you just need the item code and simc addon
Then add the enchant code in the simc text
calm barn
yeah i have them, but didnt know the code for the enchants, but i have them in outlaw weapons
slender peak
Copy and paste the simc text in raidbots
calm barn
will pick it from them
slender peak
That works too
calm barn
pretty sure my bis enchants will be quick nav and gale force
3x sharpened blades traits
so faster attack speed, faster to stack the buff
slender peak
Im pretty sure 3x ss is better than blades unless you dont have ss traits yet
tropic pike
Why is it recommended to have 2 daggers instead of 1 dagger and lets say a mace/sword? I thought weapon doesn't matter in the newer expansions?
calm barn
well I was wrong, deadly navigation is a 50dps increase over gale force
well for assassination
you need 2 daggers
to use mutilate
so is mandatory
for subtlety you could use a mace in the off hand but is better a dagger, for attack speed to generate cp and energy
and for outlaw you can use a dagger in the off hand with no penalty
but you need a sword/mace/fist in the main hand to use the skills
tropic pike
is it noticeable dps decrease without dagger in oh?
calm barn
in subtlety?
calm barn
I would say ys
yes
but ask better in subtlety channel
for outlaw there is no penalty having a dagger in the off hand
to sum up
subtlety - best with 2 daggers
assassination - 2 daggers mandatory
amber quail
calm barn
with bis stats no less
strange python
my stats are shit https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/chYEz7DbMQrGnRkVMSmoWo
calm barn
yo that 355 ring
strange python
my favorite piece
spare spoke
yo so how does stacking shrouded suffocation work? it doesn't actually add all those extra combo points right? just 2 more?
spare spoke
herodamage sims still got triple shrouded suffocation way up there for dps. still worth it to stack'em up?
that seems so weird
calm barn
mmm yes
strange python
so worth
spare spoke
aight. yeah i got 3 pieces with it now
calm barn
golden boy
strange python
in pvp literally 2 garrotes kills
strange python
don't use two of the same weapon enchant
keen hound
I...didn't realize i did
strange python
rip
keen hound
i thought i had haste/crit lol
spare spoke
i'll re-sim it now. just need some fucking daggers tbh im 338 with a fucking 298 and a 325
calm barn
that was me like yesterday
spare spoke
i got a couple more dagger mythics to try out this week so hopefully my luck turns
keen hound
simming again to see what comes out
dire spoke
disgusting
spare spoke
damn
calm barn
not very lucky with crafted pants tho, mastery/vers
yeah disgusting, spent first week with 2x 300ilvl crafted daggers
second week had to respec to outalw bc EU got 340 fist weapon WQ and then 340 mace WQ
I can't complain this week for now tho
calm barn
use nightly
simc version
SS were fixed like 2 or 3 days ago
don't know if weekly simc has the fix
keen hound
will check it out
calm barn
btw you only have 1 trait in shoulders and chest?
keen hound
Yeah, i got a late start to gearing up / grinding azerite
I'll sim w/ 2 triats in each to see if that makes a difference
as is, w/ nightly, SS is still showing as a loss for me
calm barn
it doesnt make any sense tbh
keen hound
even simming 2 traits it shows a loss
calm barn
meticulous sim higher than ss
keen hound
yep
calm barn
sounds so wrong
keen hound
Yep, that's why I'm confused lol
Was all excited to get both these drops w/ SS on it and they sim lower 😂
calm barn
it could be if you had like 2% haste
lone junco
ez game
keen hound
no buffs or anything
lone junco
he is not using subterfuge
keen hound
ooooo
lone junco
keen hound
Well, before these drops it subt was simming lower
lone junco
hazy iron
^^^^^^
keen hound
kk will go investigate
hazy iron
hoog gains
keen hound
swapping talents around now, and we will see if things start looking better lol
lone junco
with no ss. i could see it flipping
did some 3ss m0 last night
pulls of 2-4 were bonkers
calm barn
uhm should sim myself now with nightstalker and master assassin, with 3x sharpened blades
lone junco
ah. 1T 1min would be neat then.
I dont like that build. to strict st imo
but numbers are numbers.
and hitting for 150k is lolzy
calm barn
should have swapped blue trinket with my 345 spyglass
keen hound
Okay, swapped talents around and all is right in the world of simming 😂
calm barn
didnt you have 3x ss?
keen hound
good catch b/c I was so confused 😂
calm barn
or only 2
keen hound
only 2 currently
calm barn
k
keen hound
already ran my SoS this week
so...
yeah
unless there is another good source for a head piece w/ SS i'm out of luck til next week 😛
calm barn
nope
fiery haven
345 Plunderbeard's Flask 146 haste on use 901 agi or 340 Galecallers boom with a socket 205 agi 1k haste on CD with 40 haste socket
calm barn
pretty sure galecallers
but sim it
if bloodmallet is correct
white line in red circle is a 340 plunderbeard
and white segment on galecaller is a 340 one without socket
elder holly
Is bleed build still a thing or do we go all in poison build these days?
calm barn
exsang was nerfed again for bfa, it has a longer cd than toxic blade and it do 0 dmg on cast
lone junco
subterfuge and SS garrote is a thing
but exsang is dead for now.
so yes. effectively there isnt a poison thing
we stack haste for bleeds.
calm barn
wish crimson tempest just applied garrote and rupture
civic palm
Broke
calm barn
or CT proc VW too
gleaming geyser
just got triple sharpened blades set 
40k non crits during vendetta without flask or potion 
coral meteor
Didn't CT used to stack damage with every single refresh a long time ago? I'm assuming that isn't' still a thing
lone junco
it hits on application and bleeds
coral meteor
Wasn't what I was asking but yea.
smoky prism
If icy veins and noxxic have conflicting info which would you guys trust more?
wise frigate
Noxxic
smoky prism
Because icy veins says the trinket from that tectus looking boss in the motherload is good but noxxic says it’s trash
wise frigate
And by that I mean you might as well block Noxxic from ever being able to visit that cesspool of incorrect info.
If you want general info @smoky prism, I'd check out Bloodmallet and Herodamage. Both should be pinned.
smoky prism
Oh ok thanks. Sorry I’m new here
wise frigate
If you want specific info for your current gear, I'd advise simming yourself via raidbots and seeing the difference in values.
You can input trinkets you're curious about at any item level and see which would be better for you.
scenic hollow
How competitive is Assassination to the other two specs? I’m seeing that we are all simming relatively close
lofty sand
You answered your own question
sinful marsh
Does Simc include the stacking of the loaded dice trinket?
slender peak
what do you mean stacking of the trinket? you can only have one equiped so why would you sim 2?
main blaze
Probably means the buffs you get from the trinket
If its correctly simming that the buffs stack
frigid mica
Is this about the right DPS for 3 SS trait stack? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ruq9Mo1ptLCpCWFb6TquG8
frigid mica
Hmmm...maybe back to the drawing board then...maybe more Haste
strange python
Most likely
frigid mica
ah yeah, only running 17% ..goal is 20%...cheers for reponses 😃
coral meteor
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
daring imp
dammit sharpened blades is so friggin' nice
delicate gull
Does that 3rd SS do that much more DPS? I only have 2 SS, simming around 12.2 at 344
main blaze
A good balance of haste and crit gets you to higher dps
misty warren
Been lurking, what is SS?
frigid mica
yeah traits help ( 3 x SS is better dps ) but 2nd Stats are as important...Sim sim sim is the answer...and agreed, balance of Crit and haste is the way
SS = Shrouded Suffocation, Azerite armour trait
misty warren
Ty @frigid mica
blissful crown
Im excited to see what they do to it.
ppl in my guild whine so much about rogues
😄
smoky prism
is there a haste cap where its not worth it anymore
i saw 25% somewhere but im not sure
blissful crown
Tbh just sim it, i guess that will give u the most accurate answer from stat weights.
frigid mica
Think of 2nd stats like a balancing act, too much haste at the expense of your Agility / crit and you will hit faster but not as hard...It's why you will see your Sim results change the values of your stats as they change
main blaze
I dont see why there would be a haste cap at the moment. More than likely if someone had 25% haste right now then that would mean that their crit is probably fucking awful
strange python
Some of you will be playing assassination for the raid progress race ?
main blaze
so it would favor gaining crit
I probably will be but it just depends on tuning after first week
I have my gear set for all three specs
silk jolt
200 war resource for todays reward wtf
strange python
What else would you play but sin for progress?
main blaze
Sub is probably not bad for progress
Its not a hard spec to do good damage even with mechanics happening
frigid mica
Tried all three, I know Sub and Outlaw sims higher but if I am learning new fights in Uldir then I rather play Sin where I am most comfortable with.. stick with what you're most comfortable/skilled ?
strange python
Simming 13k as sub and 12.7 as sin
main blaze
Yeah thats fine Stab
blissful crown
Its to early to say which specc that will perform the best.
main blaze
mmhm
blissful crown
All i can say is that i cant remember af time in wow where all 3 speccs have been that good.
strange python
Only potential sstorm fight is zul
main blaze
best to just be ready to play any of the three from t uning
strange python
Depending what tactic will be viable
I'll probably play sin too, but since I'll focus on raiding I should go Crit haste for stats ?
blissful crown
Yes
You should just sim ur character
It will be hard for you unless u have collected alot of gear
blissful crown
get the simcraft addon
and then just type /simc ingame, and copy the text into raidbots under statweights.
blissful crown
Legs for me today in emissary
chrome stag
hey guys, can someone help. with subterfuge talented, on multi pulls, do I cast garrote on cooldown on different mobs even on 5 cp and delay rupture or do I cast rupture on 5 cp? i’m asking because I think i will lose 1 extra garrote on multi pulls if I cast rupture on 5 combo points but on the other hand I often have 5cp unused?
main blaze
Put garrote up on 3 targets and then FoK rupture/envenom
jovial kite
3 garrotes
and dont cast fourth out of subterfuge
as currently it will take the SS buff off of all your existing garrotes
chrome stag
great, thank you boys
quick cipher
what is your neck level
blissful crown
Bad trinkets
blissful crown
Running with MP instead of EP might do some
quick cipher
need to get rev with champions and get your neck item level up
quick cipher
yeah that is a big part of it you need to prioritize that rep as number 1
as it effects level of the neck
cant get weps to save my life and get a stupid fist wep from cache so much for loot specialization
blissful crown
I sim 12,2k.
I really need that 3rd SS trait.
Didnt get it this week.
Shrine of the storm is a bitch to me
foggy dirge
so is sharpened blades really as strong as it sims and if so wt what stack should i use it at?
daring imp
"as currently it will take the SS buff off of all your existing garrotes" what
grim mason
@jovial kite can you link your toon
warm parcel
According to #tc-research
daring imp
so the damage of all garrotes just goes to normal if you apply the 4th outside of subterfuge?? O_O
daring imp
how are you guys dealing with shrouded suffocation on trash mobs?
frank wyvern
is it bad to run 3xTB?
jovial kite
i just apply 3 garrote
frank wyvern
compared to SS lets say
jovial kite
then fok rup env
daring imp
oh, regardless of cp overflow?
jovial kite
yes
blissful crown
yeah rup on 2-3 targets and then just fok/env spam
jovial kite
3x garrote > 2x garrote + rupture
blissful crown
that gets me to +15-16k steady on trash atm
daring imp
makes sense, thx
devout jolt
fuuuuuu i've been tryign to get 4 garrots off 😦
daring imp
i near 18~20k if a few crits come in
blissful crown
Im hitting 21-22k without hero
ofc with PB procc
and then i use thistle tea on opener aswell
daring imp
damn so many variables 🐢
devout jolt
helm from shine dropped last night but for a druid who didnt trade it :<
blissful crown
Meeeeh
jovial kite
someone asked for mt roon
for my toon*
so here it is
note that im lacking 3x 2nd tier talents
ashen lagoon
Is it actualy beter to stack 3 SS traits over a combination with sharpened blades?
blissful crown
Yes.
jovial kite
ss is the overall best trait you could have
as it plays to assassinations niche
which is sustained cleave
blissful crown
On herodamage SS is back on top
devout jolt
looking at the guide, it doesnt seem to have an updated opener but I've been popping Vendetta on pull on a boss for the bonus to ss garrot, this correct?
jovial kite
no
daring imp
isn't this vendetta increase adaptive?
devout jolt
welp my bad
ashen lagoon
Thx for the anwser guys need to farm more gear then
devout jolt
ahh thank you. guessing the double garrote for the extended time?
jovial kite
yes
daring imp
to last all the vendetta w/o having to refresh ... haven't thought about that, thx
devout jolt
cheers @jovial kite
blissful crown
When u open with dobbelt garrote do you get 4 CPs for rupture right after?
blissful crown
Havnt been doing that actually, im like garrote mut rupture
strange python
Assassination is strongest for which type of encounter ? 1 target / 2-3 target / 3+ target ?
blissful crown
They are strong on all imo. As long as monsters have the HP to let us get everything up.
jovial kite
any amount of targets that dont die within 40 sec
strange python
Ok so it's pretty weak for mythic 0 then ? Trash mobs often die in 20-30s
jovial kite
not necessarily
devout jolt
how does haste effect active bleeds? Picked up a Galecallers last night. Does that haste increase affect bleeds that are already on my target or only those after the haste increase?
jovial kite
ct is good
lofty junco
nice tol dagor dungeon q and we got a fucking leggs.....
valid junco
Perkins yes , they affect the active bleeds. So no need for reaplying after hitting trinkets or getting azerite trait effects etc.
devout jolt
perfect thank you
daring imp
@jovial kite likelyhood of sharpened blades being better than ss for pure st?
blissful crown
SS is on top
marble whale
Guys something strange is happening to me on target dummies. If i throw a garrote on another target out of subterfuge it reduces the damages of the garrotes i did IN subterfuge.
triple SS trait
6k ticks with subterfuge
1k ticks without
1.8k ticks when i hit them in subterfuge and then i use garrote out of subterfuge on ANOTHER target
EU server btw
devout jolt
Garrotes out of Subterfuge wipe the dmg bonus
jovial kite
Before buffed ran out
marble whale
since when? never read anything about it here
jovial kite
marble whale
this is so bad, i've been throwing 4 garrotes out of stealth in mythic everytime 😡
blissful crown
Yeah i've been doing that sometimes aswell, it explains why my dmg sometimes is low on packs.
So for the first 30 seconds garrote on 3 targets you dont wanna reapply any garrote to the 4rd target
u just rupture/env.
marble whale
you're missing like 3 garrote casts you could be doing waiting for that first empowered garrote to expire
dense yarrow
so anyone know why Sharpened Blades are top on bloodmallet?
solid nova
@jovial kite I'll add a bot command for it so it can help with any questions that'll be surely incoming about it
coral meteor
It's top on BM if you can 3 stack it @dense yarrow
@385
But if you look at the graphs with single stack only, it's lower than things like shrouded suffocation, blast, matrix
If you swap to the item level tab where it's all in singles, you'll find it's outclassed
nimble gulch
why does nightstalker sim higher then subterfuge
blissful crown
@marble whale what do you mean with that u wrote earlier? if it was to my comment.
daring imp
SS bonus damage is only for the stealth garrotes or the regular ones also get bonus?
blissful crown
Only stealth ones
But what i dont get is if u garrote 3 targets from stealth, then ur out of stealth and garrote the 4th target, then the effect from SS will disappear?
blissful crown
Yeah i know
So if u pull 8 mobs, for that whole pull u should only garrote the 3 targets.
solid nova
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
blissful crown
Thanks.
lone junco
That triple garrote into vanish triple garrote is amazing. For baddy packs.
3x SS. Is annoying when chain pulling. But the garrote is strong.
@solid nova Someone mentioned that here. I saw it happen and was like. "Shit. That guy was right"
@jovial kite have you done any 3x scent 5man yet?
The rupture bonus spam will be cool.
I was 2garrote 1rupture and after 3x garrote, I FOK rupture 2+. On a ton of shit.
Held 20k cleave for like 30 sec.
Whether 1ss 2rupture. 3rupture. 2rupture 1fok. 3ss. 2ss 1rupture. Seems like a good set of options.
strange python
Hey, I'm a beginner as rogue. If I understand well, the rotation for 3+ target is spam fan of knives, and keep garrot on 3 targets max, but what I use extra combo points for ?
devout jolt
or Envenom is no CT
strange python
Rupture on any amount of targets ? Or 3 same as garrot ?
velvet magnet
About to be 0/18 on dagger bosses boys, 3 weeks of full clears and not a single one
pastel vault
Well if they will live long enough for the rupture to do its damage then yep keep rupturing
strange python
@velvet magnet I am 338 ilvl but I still have a 310 dagger even if I clear all M0 and world quests
neat gulch
i got super lucky this xp, first every m0 got a 345 dagger to replace my 273 one hahaha
lone junco
Nbd. It will happen.
neat gulch
got a 320 dagger from a world quest last night - no upgrade. my ilv is only 310 so they are rare but will appear
lone junco
But in cleave 2+ cp rupture spread
neat gulch
(by no upgrade i mean no war or titan forge)
lone junco
No weps from wq here yet
strange python
I got 2 times a 1 hand sword in WQ but I don't want to play outlaw x)
hardy acorn
@velvet magnet making me feel better about only 1 dagger in 3 weeks of clears 👌
as much as i keep trying to force myself to like sub i just keep coming back to the one true spec 
lone junco
i have about 9 minutes of sub for bfa, but as far as I care, the triple garrote with tab ruptures in M+ is fine by me. level of effort for high cleave 💸
outlaw is fun. but not my true bae.
hardy acorn
the thing is my sub ST is simming about 700dps higher than Sin, and yes with SecTec the AOE burst is pretty hilarious, but it just doesn't FEEL as good in either situation....
devout jolt
sin is life. sin is love
hardy acorn
it certainly feels that way, for the amount of effort
royal lantern
+ofc burst feels better when shit is dead in 5 seconds
remote oak
Sub is likely going to be really good for infested regardless since it pumps its damage into one mob.
fallow star
@velvet magnet same cleared all mythics each week and even done heroics and still rocking 310 weapons 😦
azure bear
how high can sharpened blades crit with 340+ gear?
i tested it with 1x sb and got crits of 20k+
any idea on 3x sb?
terse hinge
Should I just search up Ravenholdt and look into the rotation section for a solid rotation atm? Because I'm only pulling about 7.5-8k dps at 333ilvl. Feelsbadman
mossy hazel
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
terse hinge
Ooo
mossy hazel
Got you covered
lone junco
@azure bear ive seen 150k in a details. was a vulnerable boss phase though.
mossy hazel
I'm 332 and my opening burst is ~15k on just a standard boss fight. I'm pretty happy with it
grim sable
is there a simulation of all the weapon enchants anywhere?
lone junco
If I were using it, I would probably open normal. set up EP vanish knife with NS.
mossy hazel
weapon chants should be based on what ever secondary stat is scaling best for you at the time
lone junco
@grim sable use gear compare tool on raidbots. copy your weapon and apply enchant. duplicate, switch enchant. fill up the list until you are done.
sin will likely be haste on one crit on the other.
I have heard there is DR for 2x.
but thats what the simmy is for.
terse hinge
Egh. Elaborate planning egawd. Never been used to that BUT.
Dont see why I shouldn't give it a try.
It work for the full duration of your DoT bleeds as well, or only for the direct damage?
lone junco
EP is all damage
it scales with crit, allowing more uptime.
I havent shown it in a 20sec sim, but I have been clipping ep with short rupture or small envenom during the SS subterfuge open to keep EP going for full SS duration.
terse hinge
Oo. Yeah, then ill definitely take it. Considerably more effective, I'm sure.
lone junco
here's the thing. Nothing we have is envenom or dp scale. so the Master poison stuff isnt gonna work out yet.
SS, or Knife, or raw agi from ruptures. all buff phys.
mossy hazel
Do we know the traits coming from the uldir gear already? I'm assuming we do?
somber egret
Whats everyones haste at now a days? just seeing where i stand
mossy hazel
Oh, derp...
lone junco
@somber egret current 12. wish i was 22
mossy hazel
I'm sitting around 13% haste right now with 331 ilvl. I'm not enchanted or gemmed yet, I have crap weapons and still need a few 340 pieces
somber egret
yeah no kidding Noobe. im at 15 an still feel a little clunky without VR
delicate root
14.5% at 340 ilvl
strange python
What enchants and gems should I be using as sin rogue ?
lone junco
I like agi
somber egret
deadly navagation and quick navagation of weps
devout jolt
sorry, just catching up on the above, Noobe, are you saying that during the SS Subterfuge opener it may been good to clip 3cp rup and envenoms to keep EP going?
lone junco
Ill clean up the apl for that. But it should be easy to do.
lone junco
20sec no lust should see it on 1T and 3T. 95% * uptime on EP
nimble gulch
question in my opener
after i go in vanish do i use garotte again
or do i just mutilate and use envenom
opaque grotto
Are you using subterfuge?
lone junco
With SS you would only vanish garrote at pandemic.
somber egret
depends on talents but subt. you re-garrote nightstalker i think envenom
nimble gulch
okay
was just wondering cause in the opener after u go vendetta vanish i thought maybe garrote would be good
to 5 cp to envenom
cerulean walrus
I'm at 17% Haste 19% Crit at 339 ilvl
lone junco
It is in the apl. Easiest way to check is to run a quick sim. Then click the HTML. Go to apl. Then sample sequence.
cerulean walrus
Only really feel the energy starve when I have to sustain in single target right now
lone junco
No crit necessary for SS 👌
nimble gulch
so u guys do it just like in the guide
after vendetta in opener you go vanish and use mutilate untill 5cp for envenom
strange python
That feel when you get a mythic cape and it's worse then your cape from the vendor
cerulean walrus
I typically have 5-6 CP ready so I can instantly Vanish and Envenom but that was without SS in play
strange python
somber egret
those are pretty good for now!!
cerulean walrus
Now with Subt I Garrote 2x so I have full CP into envenom
nimble gulch
when
nimble gulch
ahh okay
cerulean walrus
Wait are you talking ST or MT?
nimble gulch
ST
cerulean walrus
Yeah I garrote x2 in single now cause its lower on energy consumption
nimble gulch
open is Garote 2x the nrupture vendetta TB vanish then i use 2 garotte again and then i do envenom
cerulean walrus
That's typically what I do yeah
cerulean walrus
I mean I may just be wrong but that very closely resembles what I do normally
main blaze
uh idk if you want to use vanish so soon.
cerulean walrus
Well for most dungeons where boss fights only last a minute or so it feels fine to do so
arctic venture
why vanish?
cerulean walrus
Raiding you want to save it
main blaze
TB > Vanish > Garrote > Garrote is wasting 2 gcds of TB and you dont have envenom up
main blaze
Yeah you can have 46 seconds of SS empowered garrote on a 1m boss fight if you hold vanish
somber egret
alll gonnna change when ss gets nerfed soo yeah lol
cerulean walrus
I mean SS already got nerfed lmfao
nimble gulch
i dont think they will nerf it more
lament dove
why would they nerf it? are we suddenly destroying other dps?
nimble gulch
no
cerulean walrus
Blizz thinks so
main blaze
lol how do you know blizz thinks so?
cerulean walrus
Which is funny cause we underperform in dungeons cause we can't ramp up in time
nimble gulch
Xd the should focus on nerfing other classes
somber egret
i dont lose alot of fights with ss. just saying
cerulean walrus
Because blizz nerfed SS damage by 11% along with the fix to SS
Also it was a joke lmfao
nimble gulch
could someone of you tell me now how i should open
cause ive been doing that open i said earlier everytime
main blaze
Use the guide in the pins but replace garrote > Mut with garrote > garrote
strange python
don't vanish garrote twice
somber egret
i garrote rupture vendetta mut mut envenom tbmut vanish garrote envenom
strange python
the first garrote will get max pandemic anyway
somber egret
but i do it wrong soooo yea lol
strange python
so u just add one global cooldown worth of duration to garrote
garrote twice at the start and not after vanish, is what I'm trying to say.
nimble gulch
SO i do GArote 3x then rupture vendetta TB Vanish Mut untill 5 then envenom ??
main blaze
No you also vanish > garrote > garrote
strange python
why
cerulean walrus
Garrote is more efficient yeah
strange python
then sorry for spreading misinformation
cerulean walrus
Hey its fine, we all do sometimes
nimble gulch
or do i do Garote 3x then rupture vendetta TB Vanish garotte untill 5 then envenom
Xd im confused
main blaze
What?
cerulean walrus
If you garrote x3 you'll be overcapping CP
main blaze
Why 3x?
cerulean walrus
By a longshot
lament dove
aren't you dstroying the pandemic by vanish+garrotx2?
strange python
that was my logic
devout jolt
vote to clean up the rotation on the guide? 😂
main blaze
You are ensuring that you are always pandemic'd with vanish > garrote x2 actually
cerulean walrus
^
somber egret
yes vanish garrote 2 is a waist if you pandemic it right with your open garrote
strange python
but you vanish garrote in pandemic time anyway
main blaze
Then dont do that
cerulean walrus
You wait for the first garrote to fall off
main blaze
and voila dps gain
nimble gulch
so i need to get a track to see when the pandemic is over so i can vanis hand use garotte again ??
strange python
just let the first garrite debuff fall off
weak pine
Why not Mut-Vanish-Garrotte-Envenom-Garrotte?
strange python
maybe my outlaw ass should stay away from sin channel
cerulean walrus
Just don't refresh it at 7 if you have it empowered
strange python
and then vanish and re apply
nimble gulch
Ahh okay
Nice thanks alot guys
this helped me insane
i doubled my opener dmg XD
cerulean walrus
Keep Garrote up on 3
willow oracle
i'm glad you threw "in ST" in there because I was starting to get really confused. 😄
cerulean walrus
Rupture up on 3
nimble gulch
XD God Damn thats alot of bleeds to Track
main blaze
Is you have SS traits dont put up a 4th garrote in MT
cerulean walrus
Replace Mut with FoK
main blaze
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
devout jolt
MT is 3 Subterfuge Garrotes on 3 targets then rup on 3. Dont do another Garrote until the first 3 are finished due to bug
cerulean walrus
OH yeah I forgot about that
LMAO what a joke
Yeah don't refresh it or you screw your DPS
willow oracle
RIght, okay. But ST, we're looking at the double garrote scenario above because we're still in the Subterfuge window at the pull/vanish?
cerulean walrus
Yes
Don't 3x in ST only do 2
Make sure you don't refresh the first round of garrotes until they fall off cause otherwise you'll lose out on DPS
willow oracle
Excellent. I know this has been explained about 10 different ways, but I appreciate the clarification.
willow oracle
Good luck.
nimble gulch
That makes sense cause after my openber i allways droped like 2-3k dps less
lone junco
2x garrote in st. I will continue to 3x in cleave. That overcap is irrelevant compared to 3 unique targets.
And the vanish garrote only needs to be 1x to extend at subterfuge. The 2nd (if the apl does two) is justs for cheap cp gen.
I looked at the st sample sequence yesterday. But didn't look at that specifically.
That 4th garrote bug is gonna be annoying for a bit.
devout jolt
so save Vanish till you have 5.4 seconds or less on your opening Garrotes to trigger Pandemic
mossy hazel
What's the 4th garrote bug?
blissful crown
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
mossy hazel
I know on aoe I can get out 3 emp and 1 normal garrote. Is that not how it's supposed to be
OH shit!
hollow stone
Thats how its supposed to be, proto, but currently bugged
devout jolt
we all had that reaction Proto
mossy hazel
Lol.. god damn it...
weak pine
how long has it been bugged?
lament dove
anyone has a WA that keeps track of bugs?
lone junco
I could tell with large packs
3T was godly.
4-8 just fell off.
Now it makes sense.
hollow stone
Yea. 3t is like 25k dps, if you try 4 it drops hard. Thats your wa for the bug :p
lament dove
I was kidding, I mean it's harder to keep track of bugs than our bleeds
hollow stone
Seriously lol
main blaze
SS trait has been working for 4 days now. So it's been bugged for 4 days
lone junco
3t rupture vanish 3more. Is my lol jam.
hazy iron
man, we're getting hit with nerf hammer at raid ballance for sure
mossy hazel
?
hazy iron
i just hope after they nerf SS that they give a compensation buff on rupture damage or something
Sustaining 18k in mythic+ AoE is questionable atm
blizz's logic will be" hmm, 40% of assassinations damage is coming from garrote, lets fix that"
devout jolt
"lets nerf garrote and buff envenom so they use that more"
mossy hazel
I mean, if they take that away, what else do we have really? Lol
hazy iron
yeah something like that lol
main blaze
At the start of Legion Assn's rupture damage was 40+% and it wasnt changed
mossy hazel
Booo
hazy iron
uh
40% of anyones overall damage at the moment is definitely not rupture, because we're only competitive with shrouded suffocation traits atm (or sharpened blades, if you went that route)
main blaze
legion
hazy iron
oh yeah i shoudl learn to read
main blaze
lol
hazy iron
sorry about that. I was balls deep into sub at the beginning of legion, and my memory is terrible
hazy iron
true, I didn't get boots until nighthold
main blaze
oof
lapis grail
managed to get 2 shroud of suffocations and a sharpened blade.. pretty hyped to see how my damage increases.
lapis grail
hows your damage looking?
my ass. dmg has seemed low all gearing process so far
hoping this plus the new dagger i got will get it up
338 atm
mossy hazel
I was going to say, god damn. Lol
nimble gulch
XD
lapis grail
okay, my sims are currently way off cause MY AZEROTH NECK IS TO LOW FOR ALL THE REQUIRED traits
ah shit.. caps locks
woops
devout jolt
Im the same as you unavailable but not simming 12k quiet yet
mossy hazel
Oh yea, I only have the first trait on all my current gear because my neck is only 16
steep badger
simming 11,075 @ 341, am I missing something or does that seem low?
mossy hazel
Depends on how optimized you are, what enchants you have, gems, traits, etc
I feel like that's a LITTLE low, but not by much I don't think
unkempt gulch
i dont think u want 2 of the same enchant on both weapons
main blaze
Yeah you just need more haste/crit gear
steep badger
yeah been off on luck w those, azerites been like
15 Ilvl upgrade : "Your main spam source of damage can now trigger a second swing for freezies! oh btw heres a fuckton of vers and some leech for good measure"
unkempt gulch
i also think u simming with Crimson Tempest will lower ur ST sim dmg
steep badger
weird, tested it for 5 mins last night, dont have it now
derp
i gota review my sims before i post it next time 😢
unkempt gulch
😛
steep badger
I do think CT will be a force to be wreckoned with on the proper fights
mossy hazel
I'm trying to remember if there's any solid aoe boss fights in uldir and the only one I can think of is Zul, but those adds are scattered and some specifically meant to be tanked separate, so I don't know about CT being that useful outside of trash
I think G'huun has a good amount of adds actually, doesn't it?
unkempt gulch
Zekvoz has add's that spawn quite often if i can remember correctly from raid testing
steep badger
oh wow
yeah fixing ct and adding deadly nav to oh does make a significant dif
just those tweaks for around 400 higher this time around
anyone think EP is really worth it over MP yet? im simming a literal 8 dps drop w MP instead of EP but I feel like in a real fight where you're not standing and spamming its probably worth the peace of mind
main blaze
Thats because you have a lot of mastery
steep badger
not by choice 😂
get what you mean though
hoping blindside scales well later into BFA with the gearsets, really miss that extra wrinkle dispatch brought during mists
willow oracle
I agree. I enjoyed the playstyle with BS.
willow oracle
lol
steep badger
would add some spice to the rotation and put more focus on keeping that empowered garrote relevant
thing hits like a truck
opaque grotto
2 minute vanish lets you line up the empowered garrote with vendetta
I’d imagine you would hold vanish for vendetta anyways
main blaze
Halve the power of SS and halve the CD of vanish
steep badger
likely, just thinking of that final 30 secs of the fight where the boss dies right when vendetta is about to come off cd
zealous dew
cerulean walrus
So Toxic Blade IS just used off CD now right?
Cause ever since we lost KB I've just been using it whenever it pops back up
grim mason
yep
cerulean walrus
Is there any timing for if you have Vendetta or Vanish off CD or no?
grim mason
for me I use it off cool down, eventually depending on the fight it will come back up intime with another van
currently in mythics boss never last until another vanish for me
Vandetta*** =Van
sick cradle
does the extra CP from SS not stack?
grim mason
what do you mean clarify a bit more
cerulean walrus
The extra combo points that SS gives
sick cradle
I have 2 SS traits not, but only get 3 CP