oh on the other
#assassination
nocturne gate
with 3x it changes for me from crit/haste to master/crit
main blaze
around 1300 haste
main blaze
@supple compass Its not just haste that will make Assn feel better its also crit
Haste gives you more energy for more abilities and crit gives you more combo points for more abilities
lone junco
SS may be good raid, but fucking hell, Im gonna hate it for M+
main blaze
why?
lone junco
It will however probably make Exsang fucking rip
uneven summit
its amazing in m+ 😛
main blaze
4x garrote with 3 of them hitting for 6k each is a nice burst
uneven summit
the dot dmg with subterfuge is amazing
lone junco
if anyone ever fucks up your pull and you dont get stealth, then RIP
any pulls over 6 mobs, RIP
young condor
What does SS stand for?
main blaze
Yeah but that was the same with Legendary shoulders
lone junco
deadshot cleaves all mobs. and doesnt need stealth, and doesnt have a massive cooldown. (restealth or vanish)
main blaze
If anyone fucked up your stealth RIP damage
young condor
AH okey
main blaze
Yeah deadshot is nice but new blade flurry is garbage
lone junco
for M+ i hope to get the 3x agi rupture.
uneven summit
my chest has SS and HMC.. feels good
main blaze
Yeah I got those as well
lone junco
at least that scales to bulk mobs
main blaze
3x SS is good for small pulls, 3x Rupture Agi is good for mass pulls
lone junco
It really depends on if sin is there for the boss + 2-3 fort prio mobs. or overall damage.
lone junco
i think 2x rupture 1fok.
main blaze
That could be okay too
lone junco
because the EP fok is a ton of white
anyway. that fucking knife damage is silly
50k throws.
doesnt cleave like deadshot, so already a bummer there.
main blaze
Hoping that I get the shoulders from Shrine today so I can go pewpew knife build
lone junco
but lots of metas to look at.
i have 3x deadshot. hat is 300 and a 0.1 loss st. but i get the 2nd and 3rd row out of it.
plenty of calculus to keep TC busy for a few weeks.
main blaze
lol yeah
lone junco
i already have 15shoulders
main blaze
tons of weird builds popping up
This week was really lucrative with being able to share azerite
lone junco
Top Gear: select these 5 head traits, these 5 chest traits these 2 shoulder. k go
I havent run anything. Should really get into some M0 tonight.
still have a 325/300 dagger combo
main blaze
oof
lone junco
got 340/340 2.6s first night
main blaze
Daggers have been very rare
Kind of sad that no one else ever got the 340 weapon emissary
dull root
BIS daggers until you clear heroics are the 355 BOEs honestly
lone junco
gonna mess with apl for exang and ss.
garrote vendetta mut rupture vanish garrote exsang. . . . exsang at 50 sec. . . 2.25min. rupture vendetta vanish garrote exsang. (~ 10 sec delay on vanish/vendetta for 3rd exang alignment.)
benefit: fitting the faster SS within early trinket procs and vendetta.
hrrm.
and yes i know that early vanish is before pandemic. would like to wait some but not too long to cause a double desync at 2.25
strange python
Yeah I'm running 2x Xing's Self Rotating Dagger and they sim higher for me than anything else I've seen.
lone junco
their base dps is very high
for that ilvl
355 main hand would be best.
offhand is less necessary
strange python
still got 310&300 weapons, only gotten outlaw in wq drops 
weak oak
if i get a 325 shoulder wioth thunder, should i replace that with 310 with ss?
calm barn
talking about outlaw weapons and low ilvl dagger
strange python
Yeah mikaly the agility is worth more than the trait
calm barn
would a macro, swapping weapons to daggers when you use a skill requiring daggers , and swapping to 340 outlaw ones for envenom and shit that doesn't need daggers work?
cinder palm
If it did, does swapping weaps utilize gcd? If it did it would probably fuck your dps lol
cinder palm
lol
calm barn
hahah
lone junco
prob cant throw with a mace
calm barn
yes you can
lone junco
shit
calm barn
hehe
lone junco
3x knife trait with a fat mh
just remove mutilate from your bar and fok
gross
i dont know which things require daggers. so gl
calm barn
I mean, going from 300 ilvl dagger to 340 fist weapon increase the damage on poison knife by 50
only mutilate and toxic blade
requires daggers
lone junco
ss garrote rupture exsang could be fist/mace
main blaze
Going from 350 dagger to 340 mace lowers PK damage by 10
calm barn
maybe, vanish PK 30stacks
cinder palm
What haste you guys at now. I’m at 14% and starting to feel pretty good
main blaze
19.7%
lone junco
will lol if you can swap to mace vanish ns throw for 60k
cinder palm
Daaaamn almost 20%
calm barn
non crit 😏
quaint sequoia
have they fixed the garrote trait? feels like garrote is doing more dmg today than yesterday
main blaze
Yeah they fixed it finally
dull tusk
crits for 8,5k for me
calm barn
30stacks bullseye aura feelsgood
lone junco
pretty sure the 3T sim stack has a rupture before the 3rd garrote using SS.
Ill bet 2$ (double the standard wager) that by all means, you should 3x garrote and overcap
that ST open tho
g g r
not bad
elfin raft
Nice bro
dense yarrow
thanks 😃
lofty junco
@dense yarrow i hate people with 340+ daggers when i sit on 310/290....
main blaze
What would 3x garrote and overcapping get you? Sounds like a wasted gcd
dense yarrow
@lofty junco i had 340 daggers in my first 2 mythics xD sucks man :/
lofty junco
cause empowered garrote on 3 targets deal much more dmg then a rupture on the last target
sacred ore
shrouded suffocation fixed?
elfin raft
Yup
sacred ore
so it is better to use two shourded suffocation traits if i could?
dense yarrow
as many as u can
sacred ore
daaaam
on to it then
last question, does raidbots know that shrouded suffocation is fixed? so i could use top gear
:<
lone junco
@elfin raft depends on if your goal is single or cleave. meaning, if i run with a moonkin/DH, I focus more on ST.
But that being said. 1T patchwerk 2min for the bosses. (Tyr) when we could swap gear, 8T20s or 4T40sec. Ill probably go with 6T 40s from here out.
but patchwerk trash, NO RAID BUFFS.
I keep the lust for the bosses.
hectic add cleave gets weird with variable fight times, so I dont bother with that.
@lofty junco agree.
Ill overcap in 3T+ for sure.
mossy hazel
@lone junco that ST opener with double garrote can't be right, is it??
lone junco
st probably
you get 2cps per. and thats cheaper than a mut
not a huge gain or loss there imo.
doesnt change much, but Fuu has probably worked that out.
lofty junco
@lone junco yeah but remember with a full pandemic empwoered garrote we need to refresh it not that early with vanish so it will deal more dmg^^
lofty junco
yo girl
strange python
from which dungeons they drop
lofty junco
just search for something with SS and hear my call^^
strange python
Cowl of Fluid Machinations helm has SS and HMC
as well as Gore-Splattered Vest for chest
best I've had drop so far
cerulean walrus
TFW you were in the middle of mythic runs when the guild healer that didn't level her main wants to pull you into a normal for gearing...
Can't even trade the gear lmfao she's a shaman
Also I've been super unlucky with those SS Azerite drops lately
fresh ginkgo
got my first dagger after three resets 
cerulean walrus
What ilvl?
fresh ginkgo
the dagger?
cerulean walrus
Yeah
fresh ginkgo
its 340
cerulean walrus
Nice dude
main rain
Did they fix the dmg part of SS?
strange python
yes @main rain
main rain
thanks fam
sacred ore
guys what is the AoE/Adds rotation with Shrouded suffocation trait?
should i garrote 3 targets even when my combo points are getting capped?
and then rupture 3 targets?
dry trail
garrote 2 rupture the ngarrote another
ima try out the fok trait, CT seems garbage
shit dies too fast
sacred ore
when i open i garrote 3 targets( and i ignore the fact my combo points are being capped) after the 3rd garrote i start to rupture 3 targets
is this right?
with shrouded suffocation trait ofc
and subterfuge
lofty junco
yeah nad kkeep garrote on 2-3 targets
onyx falcon
CT is slightly better than PB in AoE, but at the same time in dungeons (M+ wise) PB is prob gonna be btter since you cant change anything and CT is worthless in ST
lofty junco
PB feels more smooth cause ya can focus on rupture and garrote all targets
sacred ore
guys my AoE and Single target talents are basically the same (Elaborate planning/subterfuge/vigor/cheat death/prey on the weak/toxic blade/poison bomb)
is this right for AoE and Single target?
lofty junco
sacred ore
:<
hollow junco
CT may have more value in M+ coming up
lofty junco
CT will be good alter with 20% haste i sugest
dry trail
so CT has no value
dry trail
yeah in 10+ sure
lofty junco
*i think
hollow junco
right now for base M0 difficulty CT feels impractical because it's rarely going to tick to full duration, so you're pretty much getting its initial damage + a couple of ticks
sacred ore
@lofty junco i choose HecticAddCleave fight style for AoE/adds/dungeons and patchwerk fightstyle for single target while simming? :<
lofty junco
take a DH and a arms and ya never need to go CT atm^^
onyx falcon
JW, has blindside SIMd higher than EP for anyone yet?
dry trail
dont know what should he be taking
onyx falcon
uhh ST? prob fury/demonblade
dry trail
this is his talents
hollow junco
wru memebeam
onyx falcon
-triggered-
onyx falcon
Patchwork SIMs
lofty junco
ya are in the DH discord it seems^^
onyx falcon
ive nver even touched that middle talent in row 1
lofty junco
i farm my runes with my vengeance^^
onyx falcon
342 rogue/337? DH havoc/veng
lofty junco
DH need a 3th spec xD
primal lance
Anybody unlock and make a dark iron dwarf yet?
primal lance
Tried and all they talk about it 3D printing sex toys and shit
They’re so cool I think
slender hare
What is emissary reward for EU alliance today? Anyone knows
slender hare
Well fuck
lofty junco
aye
sacred ore
I pick HecticAddCleave fight style for AoE/adds/dungeons and patchwerk fightstyle for single target while simming in raidbots? :<
hollow junco
also, their racials oh my god. so practical. one is like stoneform but...better in every way
and increased movement speed indoors (in dungeons)
dire folio
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
lofty junco
@sacred ore ask @lone junco he had great sim setups
prime stirrup
Ragnar, those will give you rough estimates, If you want to have more accurate sims you need to set up you own parameters. like 1 min patchword fights and 30 second hectic cleave
no reason to sim a 5 minute fight when bosses are dead in 1-2 and trash doesnt last long enough for full ruptures to tick down
calm barn
fuckng hell yes
dense cedar
prime stirrup
nice, I finally got one to drop. but it was 335 with +speed
dense cedar
speed op
prime stirrup
it is, i have speed on MH xing too
sacred ore
@prime stirrup for dunegons "patchwerk" if i put 3min boss fights is it enough?
and for
raid i go 5min
primal lance
With SS being fixed it makes sense to use master poisoner or whatever it’s called in row 1 right
prime stirrup
@sacred ore just sim for what you feel is right. Most my boss fights in mythic0 are between 1-2 min right now, so i would personally sim 2 min, if your bosses/trash last longer than just adjust your timing
sacred ore
thnx :<
prime stirrup
@primal lance Mastery + haste has a lot to do with how successful master poisoner is atm. Im sitting at 14% haste /30% mastery and it sims lower for me currently. Maybe when we have more secondary stats it will make the jump to best. This is how it sims with me currently https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vJ6EwSjEhveKB9c1Ce4PRo
The thing about MP is that its weapon poison not all bleeds/poisons like it was for legion. So we will need a good bit of stats for it to be worth it
primal lance
Ah okay that’s some bs then. Thanks for the input. Appreciate a real answer
calm barn
almost breaking 12k dps, with a 300ilvl dagger and no darkmoon trinket
3x sharpened blades tho
prime stirrup
3x of most traits will give you a ton of dmg right now. Im at 1xSS 2xDagger in back
primal lance
Idk what I have currently. I’m only 119 cuz I haven’t gotten to play since Saturday so I’ll know more once I actually get on
jaunty lagoon
ok this trait is now so op
lofty junco
SS is more op
jaunty lagoon
i have 3x SS
elfin raft
thanks @lone junco very useful answer, sims today are crazzzay
prime stirrup
I sim lower when i equip a 325 SS over my 340 DtB
urban storm
My 340 with different trait sims better than 325 ss chest
jaunty lagoon
i have 3 340 with SS
urban storm
Nice
prime stirrup
ive got 1xSS 2xDtB 340 pieces. 2x overwhelming 1x HMC. It feels good, but DtB doesnt do shit compared to SS
when overwhelming power procs and im up to 50% haste it feels great though
urban storm
I got the fist wep and tried to give outlaw a go but couldn’t do it
jaunty lagoon
just did a motherlode mythic, was running 3x SS with subterfuge and ive never seen so much dmg
lusty schooner
I feel like I'm being held hostage by outlaw. I've got 2 340 weapons but they aren't daggers :(
prime stirrup
this is 1xSS on 3 target dummies, just garrote dmg for most part. Its a crazy base line, and 2 or 3 stack would be insane
tulip smelt
@lusty schooner tell me about it, my daggers are 300 and 289, while my overall gear is at 338 😂 feelsbadman
jaunty lagoon
well my garrote from stealth does 8k+ dmg non crit
cerulean walrus
Not gonna lie for only having one SS trait on my gear currently I think that's pretty good
vestal flame
when did the SS hotfix drop?
onyx falcon
o.o
cerulean walrus
Niiiice
You can finally finish the ABT Heroic set! Cause Papa Blizz forgot the boots
tight ravine
i think i'd rather play assassin than sub
cerulean walrus
What's the emmisary reward right now? I haven't logged in yet
urban storm
Us ally is AP
cerulean walrus
Ugh
molten jungle
better than resources
onyx falcon
^
crimson gorge
is SS fixed?
slender hare
Yes
lofty junco
EU ally is 700g-.-
cerulean walrus
What faction is it?
nimble gulch
any opener advice for assa im lvling mine atm to 120
cerulean walrus
Garrote all the things
hollow junco
step 1: garrote it
is it dead? if so, move on.
if not, then I guess you should check the pins for the assassination guide
lofty junco
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
cerulean walrus
TFW you hit the 36k envenom
lusty schooner
Yeah but that's more like torture vs assassination isn't it
cerulean walrus
Oh shit lmfao, plot twist, we started the Teldrassil fire
lusty schooner
I kinda wish assassination had abit more of an alchemy vibe
cerulean walrus
Well we do! We drop a bottle of shit on the ground on accident
main rain
shit dropped my vial of poison again
cerulean walrus
PB Procs "Oh whoopsie! Dearie me! I dropped this POISON on the ground"
lusty schooner
I swung my dagger so hard it fell out of my pocket
cerulean walrus
I was just trying to find my car keys and OHHH damnit I dropped it again
Ohhh no not the paint
Worst assassin ever
lusty schooner
Oh my God I dropped my mom's home mad jam on the ground 🤦♂️
cerulean walrus
Shit dude that's some hardcore jam
Really burns a hole through you faster than some Taco Bell
lusty schooner
Ive been storing it in memory of her
cinder palm
I need 1 more SS on my sin set
And I’ve got all deadshot on my outlaw set 😃
340 weaps on both specs. I’m so lucky
dense cedar
@cinder palm
cinder palm
😂
dense yarrow
are people using CT over PB yet?
elfin fossil
!
hollow junco
many have tried, in theory it's better in multi target sims
in practice, with M0 being the hardest current content it's difficult to get full value out of CT
so we'll see next week and going forward?
lone junco
In reality. Ct. Is expensive. And FOK doesn't generate enough cps per cast to spam it.
And there isnt a huge synergy form azerite.
hollow junco
opinions opinions opinions feelycraft PB seems more practical until mythic+
lone junco
My guess is HB.
But we will need mobs to last longer. Or we will never beat outlaw or sub.
hollow junco
kinda expecting some sub tuning in a couple of weeks
but not sure if it will meaningfully affect trash pull performance
true ingot
Sub will get gutted before mythic. 100%
neon sequoia
Quick question.. do I prio blindside over mutilate when target sub 30%?
because it does more dmg but only gives 1 cp, whereas for 15 energy more I can mutilate for 2cp.. do I still spam blindside below 30%? seems I energy starve more and cant maintain envenom as easily
make that 20 energy diff*
cinder palm
I would think that it should be used to fill your combo points so you can use 5 cp finishers every time in execute phase but I could be wrong
So like if you get 2cp mut 2cp mut and then you can finish with blindside then a finisher or something
neon sequoia
So it's not just blindside spam for cp under 30%
cinder palm
I might be wrong but it seems that it would be better used that way
cinder palm
It’s a tough call lol. I haven’t messed with blindside too much to really know
neon sequoia
hmmm okay
still havent decided main spec yet
not even max level
just urious
curious
cinder palm
Yeah they’re all feeling pretty good 😃
tough topaz
Rogue
neon sequoia
is there an objective best dps atm?
nimble gulch
XD any advice i did main story and im only 117 XD
hollow junco
at ilvl340: http://simulationcraft.org/reports/PR_Raid.html
neon sequoia
couldnt have
hollow junco
at raid level gear (wip): http://simulationcraft.org/reports/T22_Raid.html
but take these with a grain of salt
neon sequoia
Damn even though I'm only 85 atm
hollow junco
they are the result of the current state of tuning, simulated via APLs developed by leading members of the community using a simulation framework that is very good but inevitably has flaws
neon sequoia
Assass just feels so much more engaging than Sub in PvE
sad that its not higher
have no weps for outlaw yet
Can't play multiple really can you at max level cause there is different stat prio?
void pecan
sin and outlaw have same stat priority iirc
tough topaz
think theyre about the same
main blaze
Sub isnt too different if you just play sub in dungeons
but Assn and Outlaw have a nice synergy with stats
cinder palm
I’ve been running both sin and outlaw currently. And do great dmg on both
dire folio
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
true ingot
Running both sin and sub has been absolutely fine for me.
Stat weights are the same for me so 🤷
nimble gulch
anyone help me what can i do to get my missing 3 lvl
wise frigate
Buy BoEs.
nimble gulch
BoES ?
dapper plover
a 310 dagger is 1.5k gold
nimble gulch
how does BoE help me with my 3 lvl
main blaze
3 ilvls or 3 levels?
nimble gulch
im 117 after completing all 3 areas with full chapters
nimble gulch
wich one is the faster method
cerulean walrus
Questing is the fastest way to level right now
Also grab chests wherever you find them
nimble gulch
but i have to find side quest first
cerulean walrus
Have you done all of the main questlines in the three zones?
nimble gulch
yes
cerulean walrus
How the fuck are you only 117 then?
dark isle
No exp gem or warmode?
nimble gulch
i used exp gem
nimble gulch
war campaign will be inuff to hit 120 ??
nimble gulch
will war campaign be inuff for me to hit 120
cerulean walrus
I don't understand why you didn't do the sidequests they're typically right next to the main quest points
vapid moth
I really dont get this guy
nimble gulch
idk i didnt want to take so long for the story
vapid moth
"I'm only gonna do the main story then wonder why I'm not max"
nimble gulch
i guess
cerulean walrus
Omegalul
vapid moth
Come on man
Do the side stuff. I dont know of any game where the main story alone gets you to where you need 5o be
cerulean walrus
^
nimble gulch
idk its my first char
vapid moth
Oh. Welcome to the game
dense cedar
wtf
cerulean walrus
I suppose he boosted his toon?
dense cedar
i finished 2 areas and reacjed 120
cerulean walrus
^ Same
nimble gulch
i guess wasnt that smart to leave the side quest away but all good ima just redo them
true ingot
In his defense. A lot of MMOs i've played let you exclusively do the main story to max.
So if he's come from one of those he probably doesn't know better
nimble gulch
i thought those sides quest are mainly for rep
dense cedar
rep important
cerulean walrus
Basically wow is a game where you live by "I quest therefore I am"
vapid moth
@true ingot well thanks for refuting my earlier comment
cerulean walrus
playing other MMOs
true ingot
Got to do something while raid logging in lul periods of the expac. :^)
cerulean walrus
Not just running around capital city or Alt-Tabbing out of game
Gotta rack up that AFK /played time
royal lantern
did you find a new´´flying in circles in dalaran´´ place allready?
cerulean walrus
Running around the fountain at Proudmoore Keep
royal lantern
too far away from the HS location
cerulean walrus
Eh
dense cedar
I usually just sit in one of the posts near the fountain in tradewinds
unreal bear
i usually just get muted for 48 hours in trade chat
subtle sigil
what do you think is the best lvl 75 talent for 5man dungs?
lone junco
what row is that?
subtle sigil
lone junco
i use prety on the weak for 5man. mostly to buff for others.
internal bleeding does rip with exsang, so i had some good memes with it before.
I havent tried iron wire yet. 🤷
lone junco
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
subtle sigil
hmm
lone junco
everything beyond that depends on azerite stacking
royal lantern
iron wire is quite good for the long silence
helps with people that cant bind fking interupts
onyx rock
someone know a way to disable the sound of elaborate planning ?
royal patrol
Should the highest ilvl wep be in main hand or off hand?
urban storm
main
royal lantern
main
lone junco
@onyx rock ep makes a sound? dunno.
onyx rock
yeah it does
onyx rock
y it so irritating
main blaze
play with no sound!
lone junco
only sounds i have are WA and discord.
but if you were super bent, you could probably find the sound file and change it to a fart or something
subtle imp
so my three sharpened blades traits are simming higher than my two SS trait
im assuming just Shuriken in Sod whenever full stacks
or do you it on cd
civic palm
Huh?
civic palm
At... fictional encounters?
proven stratus
what do you guys think of double dose as a armour trait?
civic palm
I think it's good enough to use.
weak pine
Armour is irrelevant stat
proven stratus
hmm i see. and for what i understood ass rogues were out performing outlaw
weak pine
@strange python where do you get the "outperform" part when raids aren't even out yet?
civic palm
Double Dose is an azerite armor trait.
civic palm
History shows SIN performing well in raid settings due to our damage profile, and since we've less randomness than in Legion, we should be even better off.
weak pine
I liked the ability to get 99s with lower than average gear due to PB
lofty junco
Sin rules. We alway Win
weak pine
I got 144% with some buffs
:^)
Yea it's only in ToS last boss last phase but still counts
proven stratus
does anyone know a actual effect haste has on bleeds and poisons? like is 10% haste 10% more dot ticks?
weak pine
100% makes bleeds tick twice as fast during a given period of time compared to base
proven stratus
so there isn't any DR with the interaction?
weak pine
I mean compared to base 1% haste gives 1% more ticks
But 1% is less relevant when you have 50% vs 0%
civic palm
There might be DR to how much you gain per point of haste as well.
proven stratus
oh i know haste has a DR
just wondering if u had 50% haste would it be 50% or 35.33% more ticks
plain wraith
Does the "Overwhelming Power" trait stack?
civic palm
All damage components on traits stack.
proven stratus
if it says it increases a stat or deals damage buy a flat number then it generally stacks
if its a % it does not stack
plain wraith
Cool! Thank you! 😃
thorny tulip
So, quick question, which site has the most correct info about azerite traits? Bloodmallet or hero damage? The info is so different
civic palm
Which is updated more recently?
thorny tulip
good question
civic palm
Also make sure you are looking at the correct charts for the trait values.
and it looks just like Sharpened Blades or w/e is the largest difference.
thorny tulip
awesome, thanks 😃
thin ingot
guys
how many times i garrote during the opener
while using subterfuge
do i refresh garrote asap?
while subterfuge is active?
civic palm
Other is that Garrote can be used multiple times in Subterfuge and still get the Shrouded Suffocation bonus.
This means it's often a gain to Garrote twice in a row in ST for the 6 combo points and to extend the buffed Garrote to maximum duration.
Could possibly get optimized further, but it's worth considering and was a direct gain for the opener and Vanish in the current APL with any number of traits.
thanks
torpid forge
@civic palm wait, does that mean if we recast garrote while out of st it maintains the buff? Or does it mean garrote twice on the same Target to extend the duration?
civic palm
This means it's often a gain to Garrote twice in a row in ST for the 6 combo points and to extend the buffed Garrote to maximum duration.
My English is bad, that's why I am asking
candid phoenix
rather than garrote Muti rupture
keen spruce
if you're using DS
civic palm
It specifies Single Target.
keen spruce
double garrote is probably better
civic palm
Probably still better with Vigor, it's only 1CP loss.
candid phoenix
i m doing many different sims now
keen spruce
yeah
candid phoenix
to see if DS outplays Vigor
torpid forge
@candid phoenix ty
candid phoenix
but i think Vigor outplays DS on long fights
civic palm
under Bloodlust yeah.
keen spruce
or can you squeeze 4 in with vigor?
I can get 3 in with 14% haste
and a rupture normally
candid phoenix
so DS sims 30 dps lower than vigor right now for me
lusty schooner
you can probably garrote muti finisher garrote again
nocturne gate
how did u guys manage EP with this low energy regen ?
thin ingot
rogues have locked GCD
candid phoenix
thin ingot
haste shouldnt make a difference
civic palm
Rogues do not have locked GCD.
thin ingot
no?
civic palm
No.
candid phoenix
Ds sims 11870
thin ingot
jesus
keen spruce
no have a mage time warp you and start smacking a target dummy
civic palm
You don't generate that much Energy.
OTL might get GCD locked under Bloodlust for the pull for a little bit though.
candid phoenix
If Bl is used same milisecond i exit stealth
i can do Garrote Muti Rupture Garrote
but i find it better to do Garrote Garrote Rupture, then go CDs and start rotation
removes the latency RNG that might ruin ur attempt
lusty schooner
Are you using DS?
candid phoenix
no
i will try when raids open
but DS is better for dungeons
cus bosses die in 30-60 secs
lusty schooner
Why overcap CPs when muti does the same trick
keen spruce
on multi target i was getting 3 garrotes off no problem during subterjuge
candid phoenix
bcs reapplying garrote on pull adds 7-8 secs on it
lusty schooner
I see
candid phoenix
thats Way more dmg than a muti
my garrotes now crit for 19-20k on vendetta
with 3 SS
civic palm
Especially with 2-3 SS traits > _>
lusty schooner
When do you use vendetta with 2x garrote
keen spruce
Garrote Mute
proven stratus
i didnt think SS stacked
keen spruce
the damage does
civic palm
All non% damage/healer/etc. traits stack...
lusty schooner
Imagine 5CP from 1 garrote
proven stratus
ah good someone told me it didnt and i thought that was odd
keen spruce
lol
that would be crazy on trash
and on ST for that matter
you'd almost want to pre vendetta lol
lusty schooner
Would be so juicy
keen spruce
garrote, rupture, garrote, envenom
lusty schooner
I'm just getting moist thinking about it
candid phoenix
Knox
all of our buffs and procs
work dynamicly
so when u activate vendetta or proc buffs
the existing dots benefit
lusty schooner
Yeah I'm aware
keen spruce
are you sure? 
lusty schooner
You just don't want to 'overwrite' stuff
keen spruce
that's what i've been doin
candid phoenix
Vanish Garrote b4 it expires
keen spruce
so vanish is prioritizing garrote now
candid phoenix
if u are running subterfuge yes
candid phoenix
if u run NS then u do Rupture
but while SS is so strong
Subterfuge is the to-go option
strange python
I guess i will have the possibility of smoking/drinking while raid if i play sin 😄
lofty junco
at least everything is right again xD
lofty junco
was played vindictus for a break^^
lofty sand
Assassination has always been a pretty slow spec, isnt that the charm of it?
civic palm
It's a maintenance spec, that's the appeal.
lofty junco
who the fuck want Sharpened blade?^^
lofty sand
I always enjoyed that
lofty junco
SS is king and my wanted favorite^^
lusty schooner
It's a casino spec with PB
lone junco
pb is not casino. more like finding gum on the sidewalk. neat, but not what you wanted.
lofty sand
its not cassino at all, its more like "oh pb procced, ok" Nothing changes in our rotation
lone junco
but waste all your load on that one thing
lofty sand
its a completely passive talent, you don't have to react to it or anything, you just look at it go
strange python
Cant imagine the surprise in PvP @lone junco 😄
lone junco
i guess id rather have 3x ss. and mid fight add vanish garrote. step boss garrote boss.
@strange python vendetta ns knife?
pew
i guess you could stack fok and knife
candid phoenix
its not good in pvp atm @strange python
lone junco
and do a knife fok
candid phoenix
by the time its stacks up its too late 😄
lone junco
yeah, st stack seems a bit too slow for my blood.
strange python
Fun build but could work
lone junco
I am hoping for 2x scent + 1 fok. for M+
candid phoenix
so right now i have the itms for both ST builds
strange python
Assassination should have Iron Stomach. :/
candid phoenix
1 build is 3 SS and other build is 3 Over.Power
lone junco
cheat death all the way
lofty sand
why?
candid phoenix
the 3 SS is 200-300 dps stronger
lofty sand
Iron Stomach is lame as hell
lofty sand
yes, very exciting.
strange python
Survivability is exciting, yes.
candid phoenix
and i still dont understand why Elusiveness and Leech poison exist on the same row as Cheat Death
like Who is gonna pick either of the 2 over CD XD
civic palm
Elusiveness allows for some levels of abuse that CD won't help you through.
and Leeching is for leveling/WQ.
lofty sand
I sure want to spend my already hard to come by energy to heal myself
strange python
Are you trying to be funny? I don't get it.
lofty sand
what I dont get is why you want assassination to be outlaw
lone junco
nah. I just use cheat death for boss mechanics. and vial/booger as needed.
strange python
Haha, wanting Crimson Vial to actually matter is wanting Assassination to be Outlaw?
lone junco
crude hinge
why does it feel like im doing less damage after they fixed ss?
even my sim went down
thin ingot
the guy that designed the tortollian WQ should be executed
fking memer meme'd us all with that bs
lone junco
i like the shell game.
peak flame
Anyone else really miss the old assassination sound animations? Mutilate used to feel so satisfying to use, I hate the windy ''swoosh'' sounds Legion gave us 😦
lofty junco
i will go V11 after i got all rep
civic palm
O _ O
strange python
than magar orc
lone junco
@strange python they are all the same. just use your feely craft for M+ tool kit.
dapper plover
so sick
thin ingot
mines tickng for 12.5k and i got 2 SS
lofty junco
thats great not sick^^
thin ingot
is it low?
lofty junco
340 daggers?
thin ingot
350 and 325
lofty junco
then its good. got 6-8k ticks with 310/290 daggers
nocturne gate
@lone junco directly from stealth starting with vendetta instead garrote ?
thin ingot
im trying to push my haste all i can, but still feels lame going from 40% haste at the end of legion to 15% atm
candid phoenix
@queen monolith my garrote is ticking for 19-20k on the opener with 3 SS atm
strange python
Just picked up Assa again after playing Sub since release; played Assa all last expac. It normal I’m feeling incredibly energy starved?
lone junco
@nocturne gate current apl is in the sim.
candid phoenix
@strange python after 14-15% haste the rotation becomes smoother with less energy starvations
strange python
Alright, thanks a ton. The spec still feels solid but atm my haste is lower so I can’t play it over sub
thin ingot
@candid phoenix could you share your armory? wanna know how many upgrades you got compared to my gear
im not even close to those numbers lol
candid phoenix
just a moment
thin ingot
thanks
queen monolith
@candid phoenix ?
candid phoenix
yes @queen monolith
lone junco
@nocturne gate
queen monolith
@candid phoenix why message me im a sub rogue
candid phoenix
lol i think that was a mistype while i was typing. the Teal coloured named confused me
sorry xD
and the guy i wanted to talk also had his name starting with "Je"
so autocomplete fail 😄
nocturne gate
double garrote in opener hm just only with 3x SS ?
lone junco
that is 2x.
it pushes the max length pandemic right away and gives you extra cp
prob a good idea
dense yarrow
u mean 5cp?
lofty junco
nope 2x garrote gives 4 CP with 1-3 SS traits
nocturne gate
"F" sit down ! :D
dense yarrow
1 garrte gives 3cp 2 garrotes give you 6cp in theory???
or am i going mad?
nvm im prob wrong
lone junco
i do know that 3x garrote in cleave open is overcapping.
but probably still way better than that rupture
dense yarrow
i overcap using 2 garrotes in opening lol
median stream
@candid phoenix wrong opener imo. it should be garrote>muti>rupture>garrote
calm barn
yeah first motherlode boss
candid phoenix
no @median stream with 3x SS getting 6 extra sec on ur garrote is more dps in the opener. tested on dummy and dungeons
median stream
but you still extend garrote to the max
lone junco
double garrote on ST for sure.
median stream
you cast the second one right before the sub bugg expires
lone junco
no reason not to. non crit mutilate is bullshit.
civic palm
Other is that Garrote can be used multiple times in Subterfuge and still get the Shrouded Suffocation bonus.
This means it's often a gain to Garrote twice in a row in ST for the 6 combo points and to extend the buffed Garrote to maximum duration.
Could possibly get optimized further, but it's worth considering and was a direct gain for the opener and Vanish in the current APL with any number of traits.
"any number of traits"
median stream
ah if you took the DS talent ok
candid phoenix
even w/o DS its still better
median stream
how is it going to be better?
candid phoenix
and w/o BL u cant do garrote/muti/rupture/garrote
median stream
i will have more buffed garrote ticks, waht i am i missing here?
yes you can
just tested on dummy
lone junco
ds is for finishers only
candid phoenix
not with our current haste
median stream
just tested it
lone junco
yeah, you get 3 moves in subterfuge.
not worth fucking it up
if you garrote mut rupture garrote and clip off the stealth, you fucked your entire SS>
-15% dmg
grats
median stream
its close but quite consistent for me, never failed it in like 20 tries
lone junco
do you know you made it? like checked tick values?
lone junco
that mut and rupture prior to garrote are worthless.
median stream
was cehcking the ticks
lone junco
no need mess it up. you would not gain anything anyway.
could garrote rupture garrote mut env if you were feeling frisky
median stream
how am i not gaining casting second garrote a global alter than you?
candid phoenix
whats ur haste bamze
median stream
11
candid phoenix
i cant use 4th global in subterfuge with 14% and u can with 11
lone junco
if you clip out of stealth you will mess it up. not worth 1global to me. you can do whatever you want though
candid phoenix
either u are very wrong or im dumb 😄
median stream
em im a button masher but still doesnt look very hard i dunno
and i think its a tick bonus dmg gain comapred to 2 garrotes
even 2 ticks
lone junco
if you want to delay to 3rd gcd. garrote rupture garrote mut env. is fine.
but you can do whatever you want.
candid phoenix
i never managed to do 4 garrotes on multitarget in dungeons. perhaps my 50latency doenst help
median stream
exactly waht im doing yes
lone junco
logs. will tell in the end though.
candid phoenix
i always hit the 4th garroite 0.5 sec after buff is down
median stream
aah no sorry. garrote mut rup garrote
median stream
i doubt i have some uber fast connection and fingers for this
pretty sure you its not failing for "everyone else"
candid phoenix
ok with my 55 ms right now
median stream
same for me 55
candid phoenix
if i do garrote muti rupture garrote
the 2nd garrote doesnt give 3 cps
so its 0.5 sec after buff drops
lone junco
you need to delay the vendetta and vanish at 2:25 for 3rd exsang
candid phoenix
for raid bosses it wont beat TB
median stream
not sure if common knowledge but if you buffed garrote 3 targets and missed the buff on the 4th
all of them got screwed
candid phoenix
hmm what?
median stream
you do 3 garrotes and they tick for the buffed dmg
then buff expires and garrote a 4th target
the first 3 will stop doing the bonus dmg
median stream
test it for me on dummies please
candid phoenix
how do u come up with such conclusions
median stream
by looking at numbers on those dummies
civic palm
Also make sure to keep the dummies in combat there's a chance that flags are removed when combat is dropped.
and that warmode is off.
candid phoenix
even if u reapply a non SS garrote on an SS garrote, the buff will still apply till the buffed SS garrote timer expires internally
median stream
wm is on for me
lone junco
@candid phoenix as long as this desync is happening, you are probably right.
but all we are gaining anyway. is what, 9 sec normal garrote per exsang
conc/bota was my bae
cause rupture is a bitch.
candid phoenix
i dont know @lone junco i dont rly like exsang yet. raid testing might change my mind
its rly godlike in dungeons tho. for 1min fights
strange python
candid phoenix
let me sim myself on 3 mins
on 5 mins im at 12.100
i dont know noobe rupture feels like a necessary evil for the rotation
candid phoenix
5 Cps to do this pathetic dmg is sad
lone junco
or it needs to feed E back from the poison sticks at a good rate.
candid phoenix
but tbh, i dont complain. sin is so fun right now. and they playstyle/rotation is rewarding
lone junco
?
candid phoenix
both dpswise and brainwise
candid phoenix
i did
lone junco
we do pull 3-4 often. so i would probably be a god.
candid phoenix
if u dont have a DH in ur grp that reks trash mobs
lone junco
cant mess up Garrote tab garrote tab garrote
candid phoenix
i did like 30-40 k dps on trash xD
candid phoenix
@strange python https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8X47S8YW7VFEtEyZc2LxJ1
lone junco
Blade Flurry blade rush squirt
candid phoenix
pls no outlaw in this channel. i will vommit
i mean no offence to any1, but outlaw is for ppl who dont know how to play the rogue. just press 1-1-2
barren spindle
Is mp the best choice atm?
barren spindle
Yeah t1 talent, over ep?
candid phoenix
i sim 100 dps higher with elaborate planning
strange python
@candid phoenix https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iQ52a9stWQ3ziA9LbPYnL 5min there you go
i wish i had more luck @ traits
candid phoenix
its all about hte haste right now
fleet whale
I wish assassination would get changes similar to what feral is going to get
lone junco
wrong stats
barren spindle
Yeah I think not having the 3rd scent is where my missing 400 dps or so is
Just realized :D
candid phoenix
@fleet whale frankly sin doesnt need changes atm. i feared that the lack of Kinsblade ability would make the build weak, but on the contrary. the build is solid and fun and rly rewarding for the effort u put in ur rotation
lone junco
pretty disspointed in blindside and the mut reduction
they fucked that talent up hard.
tb avg is too high.
ive seen 20k crit.s
candid phoenix
funny thing is blindside is only worth if the target begins the fight at 30% hp, and blizzard wont add such a boss xD
lone junco
hard to pass up.
fleet whale
So many issues with blindside... why does it not work with double dose
why would blizz make an execute that is hardly, if even, worth using
lone junco
sin totally deserves a ST tunnel spec. Blindside and VW or what not.
but they didnt make it work.
fleet whale
it wouldn't take much time to make it work though
fleet whale
double does is actually not that bad as a trait... would fit in nicely with blindside if it worked with it
lone junco
i would go with Double Dose if it were just flat 25% crit to Mut 👌
w/e
balancing 700 variables at once doesnt seem easy. and the azerites are bonkers for "knobs to turn"
fleet whale
you are easy to satisfy then
candid phoenix
i had the azerite armors with SS in my bags
for 2 weeks now
i got 3 SS armors 1st week KAPPA
lone junco
i got a 340ss so that was nice
candid phoenix
no @fleet whale i just dont like complaining about everything 😄
i mean i play this game for 14 years now. 15 if u add Alpha and Beta. i ve seen bad and good things happening. BFA seems solid for now and i m happy
lone junco
my only problem so far. is that outlaw is banging in M0. makes it hard for me to focus on sin.
fleet whale
Maybe assassin will get better as time goes on as I thought it was awful at the start of legion
lone junco
crit levels tbh.
fleet whale
not just that... I hated AP
candid phoenix
Sin scales better with gear, so it will slowly become stronger
maybe not in uldir but the raid after
fleet whale
So long as blizz doesn't nerf the spec
lone junco
I may come to hate the cost to reroll azerite gear tho
I have deadshot and SS on the same purple chest.
barren spindle
Just gotts snag alot of the azerite gears :)
lone junco
I have like 15 shoulders.
NO TRADING AZERITE. THAT SHIT IS MINE.
unless you wanna pass over that hat
lofty junco
its nice that we will get our BIS dagger in the raid too at the 2nd boss^^
candid phoenix
ye its smthng