which puts sin behind the other two, but it scales pretty hard with difficulty like m+
#assassination
safe matrix
ebon bramble
once m+ is out and groups dont tend to pull more than one group at a time and mobs dont die so fast
you can dot up everythign and win the dps on trash as assassination usually wins out the cleave fights
dense cedar
When every enemy lives through 2 rupture cycles at least it gets p. good
halcyon glacier
is it just me or does anyone else mind crimson tempest being useless on boss fights in dungeons, but not wanting to take PB
needs a buff to deal more dmg if it only hits one target imo
versed finch
Yeah, could add another dot to the rotation
opaque grotto
Yeah they could have done a bit better with the 100 row
Like hidden blades is so niche
PB looks like it’s supposed to be an aoe talent but it’s worse than another aoe talent
halcyon glacier
they were supposed to seperate rows into being either AoE or ST based, but PB is the only one that adds a ST increase
and yeah hidden blades is such garbage
opaque grotto
Yeah I know they’re supposed to have themes but if PB is the intended single target talent they could have designed it a little better for that purpose, you know?
dense cedar
tropic osprey
quick question, dont bother to read the up 😒 is SS fixed?
cerulean walrus
SS got fixed in the August 24th hotfixes from what it seems like
safe matrix
didnt go through from what I've heard
cerulean walrus
At least that's what the small indie company reported
Shrouded Suffocation (Rogue) damage reduced by 11%. Fixed an issue that caused this trait's damage increase to fail. -Official Blizzard notes from the 24th
civic palm
Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Battle For Azeroth. ***Some of the hotfixes below take effect the moment they were implemented, while others may require scheduled realm restarts to go into effect.*** Please keep in mind that some issues cannot be addressed without a client-side patch update. This list will be updated as additional hotfixes are applied.
I'm aware, I'm fairly certain the SS fix will be pushed on tuesday
cerulean walrus
Ah okay
ebon bramble
dont panic yet
cerulean walrus
That 11% damage nerf feelsbadman
lofty sand
I wish PB was deleted and they gave us an actual ST finisher, like Death from Above or some shit like that. its so boring to have a passive rng talent like that
cerulean walrus
I wish they had made it a CD
ebon bramble
thats about a 1% total nerf to it, its still going to be strong for dual and triple target
cerulean walrus
I'd much rather have PB be a CD that I have control over
lofty sand
A CD would be fine
ebon bramble
i wish they just made poison bomb an active skill on cooldown that did significantly more damage
cerulean walrus
^
ebon bramble
but this is blizzard we are talking about
lofty sand
anything other than "its gonna happen naturally as I do my normal buttons" its so fucking boring
safe matrix
Listen, its an improvement from legion
lofty sand
yeah Kingsbane as a talent would have been great
cerulean walrus
Kingsbane was honestly once of my favorite abilities rogue has had
RIP Burst of Speed
lofty sand
why didnt they give us Death from Above since sub got that naruto shid and Outlaw got that other cool blade dash
just something exciting to press once every 30s
maybe line some cds with it
cerulean walrus
Because Death from Above was a "Deathtrap for anyone who didn't time it right"
They could have just shortened the animation
lofty sand
I rather have that, than pB honestly
cerulean walrus
The fact you were put in a 3 second LoC for the animation is what made it clunky
lofty sand
That was easy to fix, they just needed to make it worth to press
cerulean walrus
Yet Outlaw gets Killing Spree roflmao
lofty sand
yeah thats what I'm saying the other specs got cool stuff. We get poop on the floor randomly while we go about our business
cerulean walrus
And to add salt to the wound... .tanks can't see it
ebon bramble
man killing spree is awesome lol
cerulean walrus
And if they could see it, they'd think it was a boss or trash mechanic and pull them out of it anyway
lofty sand
that other blade dash thing is awesome as well
cerulean walrus
Secret Technique is interesting
Seriously though, a talent that acted just like Kingsbane would have been phenomenal
lofty sand
so many things would be better than PB
cerulean walrus
And it would have stopped the "Oh yeah just use everything off CD" vibe that Sin has now
civic palm
Yeah KB would have been REAL SMART with how starved we are 👍
lofty sand
??
cerulean walrus
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or genuine to save my life
Just pack that Thistle Tea bois lmfao
Starvation solved
lofty sand
I don't even
valid junco
Bleed ticks against poison give us energy , haste makes bleeds tick faster. Problem solved, just shit gear u guys wearing 😄
silent gale
How many people feel strongly about going Sin over Sub in the first 4 bosses of Uldir?
valid junco
sin 100% of bfa , mastering it all the way i can
lofty sand
I only touch other specs when I go outlaw for islands
since I can never get a re-stealth in that place
grim mason
cerulean walrus
Sin can handle movement mechanics better than sub ever could in a raiding scenario in my experience
valid junco
Island is better with sin , we can cleave on everypull not just when cd:s are up.
valid junco
garrote , rupture , crimsom is win aoe
lofty sand
that is, if you get a re-stealth
cerulean walrus
I've read the journal entries and everything
lofty sand
which you don't most times
cerulean walrus
I haven't seen the boss fight videos Fatboss did yet
lofty sand
yeah I dunno much about uldir
but I'm going sin, better to handle mechanics, reliable damage
winter dagger
I tested shrouded suffocation azurite and i have to admit that it doesn't increase dmg from garrote at all. Even just one trait, all it adds is combo part and only for one piece of armor
valid junco
Sin hating 99% come from people that rock like 6% haste in theyr gear and not even using haste proc traits at all , then sitting on bosses and crying cause nothing is happening and energy starvation and blaa bla blaa
winter dagger
this trait is basically dead
winter dagger
checking
lofty sand
even without the damage it was still a very ok trait, the extra combo points were really good
cerulean walrus
Yes. They addressed it.
Shrouded Suffocation (Rogue) damage reduced by 11%. Fixed an issue that caused this trait's damage increase to fail.
Read.
winter dagger
and i used armors with and without and i saw no difference
cerulean walrus
That's because its bugged
cerulean walrus
Its getting fixed tuesday.
cerulean walrus
Tuesday.
winter dagger
ok
cerulean walrus
fuck's sake lmao
lofty sand
hahaha
civic palm
🔪
north terrace
Where does it say its not going live until Tuesday? The quests giving rep change that was called out in the same notes has already gone through...
civic palm
Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Battle For Azeroth. Some of the hotfixes below take effect the moment they were implemented, while others may require scheduled realm restarts to go into effect. Please keep in mind that some issues cannot be addressed without a client-side patch update. This list will be updated as additional hotfixes are applied.
lofty sand
Reading is very hard.
civic palm
Well first you gotta know what you gotta read.
Hint: Everything.
Then you gotta know how to read.
Hint: That's hard.
cerulean walrus
lmao
cerulean walrus
That's fucking impossible
civic palm
Then you have to ask questions about what you just read to other people to make sure you understood it correctly.
cerulean walrus
You mean I can't just watch Bellular and understand everything?
civic palm
If you watch Bellular's normal content you probably won't know anything anyway.
cerulean walrus
So true
north terrace
Yeah, that doesnt directly say that the SS nerf/fix wasnt in the hotfixes that already went out and also wasnt stated on mmochampion. Thanks for the normal derision you love to throw around though!
civic palm
If it's not fixed... "others may require scheduled realm restarts to go into effect."
When does that normally happen?
cerulean walrus
Oh I know! I know!
north terrace
What you just wrote does not specifically call out WHAT in the notes was fixed genius
cerulean walrus
Instantly.
cerulean walrus
🤔
wheat zealot
Very intellectual conversation 10/10
civic palm
Could be Wednesday.
cerulean walrus
Ravenholdt getting too smart
civic palm
Probably is for some people.
cerulean walrus
Pl0x nerf
prisma pond
Someone had that rotating dagger on the ah yesterday for 40k and i.missed it
civic palm
The Hotfix notes don't state which things are fixed immediately but you can safely assume that by next reset those changes will be in place.
cerulean walrus
Or at least most of them*
lofty sand
its a safe assumption I'd say
prisma pond
You know what they say about assuming 
sweet needle
Critical thinking/reading is a course that's been around in school for well over a decade.
Who knew those skills would be useful?
vestal wren
civic palm
Yeah but the notes don't detail which is which.
mighty zealot
i think thats a valid point but its understandable that people are jaded enough by the same question that they poke fun at it
vestal wren
blizz notes in general suck
they changed f.ex. certain azerite traits without a note
civic palm
Yarp.
Though I wanna say that if they made release notes on every change no one would read them through.
lofty sand
I think its wise to just give them the benefit of the doubt at least till tuesday. It would be very silly for them to not only present the bug fix, tune the trait and still release it not working. Not saying they won't, but I'll wait till reset before I make that conclusion.
cerulean walrus
If people read... The WoW forums wouldn't be as entertaining as they are
And T&E wouldn't have things to talk about
sweet needle
Anyway, most likely will be fixed when servers come up Tuesday. If not, then 🤷♂️
cerulean walrus
Hopefully it gets fixed by then
hot carbon
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
analog sedge
any one have a good sin ui/addon list to use
bold steppe
What level 100 talent are people playing in M0s and expecting to play in M+? Finding it hard to call as Hidden Blades sims worse than it plays
lone junco
Sims worse than it plays? It should assume a full stack in the open for sim.
bold steppe
My understanding is that the Herodamage sims assume one continuous combat, whereas in reality you have gaps/single-target situations where you aren't using FoK
marble hemlock
the build youre playing will largely depend on your gear and azerite pieces
theres a few issues of the sim, i.e. starting with max-stacks hidden blades, using vendetta/tb on a prio target, stopping to multi-rupture once the energy-sustain is sufficient, etc.
all of these arent exactly accurate, some skew the sim in one direction, some in the other, so its hard to say based on sims
bold steppe
That's why I'm taking the nuclear option and asking what other people are doing 😛
quartz marten
CT feels very rewarding when I can ramp up
marble hemlock
well, theres 2 ways to go at it right now
focus on fok by stacking scent of blood traits, multi-rupturing with low-CP ruptures and spam fok with HB
lofty sand
CT gives me control over my damage, its what I run with
marble hemlock
or go a more dot-focused way with SS/scent mix, play CT and maintain fewer ruptures and CT
id say that both "builds" are fairly close to each other in value, im personally going with HB and scent-trait stacking
sacred ore
guys i should always choose HecticAddCleave instead of patchwerk playstyle when im simulating for dungeons?
or AoE
marble hemlock
depends on what you want to do with the sim. statweights?
marble hemlock
so the way i see it, is that the cleave/multitarget APL isnt really all that optimized once youre getting into 5+target scenarios. so you can do a 40sec/5t sim, and 20s/8t for short burst scenarios, and get statweights. you then take a look at the damage-distribution and compare that to the real-life distribution you get while actually playing in the dungeon. if its pretty similar, you can take the statweights at face-value
if theres a somewhat bigger difference in, say, the overall damage from something like fok, i.e. its 10% higher than in the sim, that means that haste/mastery are a bit less valuable than in the sim
and take your conclusions from there
bold steppe
So if my best pieces are Shrouded Suffocation, I should embrace the CT spam?
sacred ore
what do you mean by "5t" and "8t"
sacred ore
Im not able to find an option for the number of targets in raidbots, only bosses
sacred ore
5 bosses then :<?
marble hemlock
yup
strange python
I hope they make a boss with 8 targets. All active. Shared health pool.
Would be so much fun.
marble hemlock
but yeah, its hard to take the statweights for aoe at face value unless the damage distribution lines up with the one youre getting during actual gameplay
lofty sand
CT spam? I keep hearing about that, do people actually spam CT instead of refreshing it when needed?
bold steppe
I mean, my understanding is that if you're at 4/5 CP and don't have a good rupture target the correct play is to dump with CT
So yeah
sacred ore
@marble hemlock so what is HecticAddCleave fightstyle for exactly? Shouldn't it be AoE related (dungeons, raid adds, & etc....)
lofty sand
My envenom can crit to up to 25k, so I just use that
marble hemlock
well, its more about the increased poison application rate for subsequent foks
unfortunately i do not know what the exact difference in the APL are between hectic add cleave and patchwerk
when i was trying to minmax as hard as possible during legion i used patchwerk, not add cleave
since trashfights arent really that different from, say, a council-like fight
ill check real quick
sacred ore
take your time :<
lofty junco
get used to it not all question will be answered^^
marble hemlock
looking at it right now, theres a difference in the sims of ~6k between patchwerk (35.6k) and cleave (41.1k), looking at why thats the case tho
but really, you can use either
vapid moth
@lofty sand if you have 4 or more targets it's better to CT instead of envenon. Unless you have less than 3 ruptures
marble hemlock
sim refreshes CT at 2sec duration left on 3 targets, and on 4+ at 3sec left
@sacred ore so seems like in the patchwerk sim for some reason not all targets get hit by fok, which leads to lower overall fok and poison damage, so if you wanna sim dungeon trash, go with add-cleave
neat beacon
Does CT have a minimum target threshold for when it is to be used? Is it useful, for instance, in 2t if they live through the full duration?
marble hemlock
once theres a second target, CT is worth using (and refreshing)
refresh at 2s or less
obviously if one target needs to die faster, you can choose to not CT and instead envenom on the priority target
sacred ore
@marble hemlock last question, should i stack the shrouded suffocation trait? or wait until its actually fixed? :<
marble hemlock
not sure what the rules are during vendetta/tb, youll probably want to refresh CT before using TB so you wont have to during it
well, right now its not as good as its supposed to be, so id suggest just taking one for the CP-increase, since that part is working as it should
and use some other pieces in the meantime
sacred ore
alright, thank you so much :<
warm heath
is going for a multitarget build the better option atm for dungeons?
marble hemlock
yes
even if you focus on singletarget, which will cost you quite a bit of aoe-dps, you will not be able to out-dps most of the other high-profile dps specs right now, so focus on aoe/multitarget instead
its basically the exact opposite of where we were at in legion, where our singletarget was one of the best in dungeons, but our aoe was lackluster
now its the other way around
sacred ore
I simmed CT and PB, apprentaly PB gave me for dps for "HecticAddCleave" fightstyle
warm heath
ok. ive went through the guide and was just curious
marble hemlock
problem with PB is that you have no control over when that damage is going to apply
with CT, and HB for that matter, you do
warm heath
with the lvl 45 talent row is it more of playstyle preferance or has anyone found one stand out above the others?
sacred ore
Vigor is the way to go
marble hemlock
if youre playing subterfuge, you want to take vigor
otherwise youll be energy starved after your triple-garrote opener on trash
warm heath
ok. i really enjoy vigor i just wanted to make sure i wasnt screwing myself not using one of the others
marble hemlock
definitely not, with garrote energy cost being as high as it is, you kinda require the additional max-energy to not instnatly be starved
neat beacon
Thanks @marble hemlock , and I agree with your assessment on TB/Vendetta usage. Sometimes I find myself caught off guard having popped either and needing to refresh something that they don't benefit
warm heath
makes sense
sacred ore
@marble hemlock now that im using shrouded suffocation with subterfuge, when i triple garrote targets my combo points get capped after the second target, should i keep garroting 3 targets and ignore the fact that my combo points are capped?
marble hemlock
yep, thats one of the few intricacies, making sure you dont have to refresh anything during TB
sacred ore
if i use rupture in between the garroting phase, the garrote buff from subterfuge wont be applied to the 3rd target
marble hemlock
thats something i'd sim
or rather
just check up on how much damage one full-duration garrote deals
and compare it to a 5cp rupture
marble hemlock
when i was using 1 shrouded suffocaiton trait i just went for 3x garrote into 1x rupture
makes the energy-generation ramp-up a bit faster than skipping on that one garrote
sacred ore
you don't care about the combo points capping during garrote phase with shrouded suffocation?
elfin raft
where does the refresh rupture 7.2s + the refresh garrote 5.4 unless subterfuge garrote of course? is that just the minimum amount of time you should wait, what bad thing can happen if you refresh at 1s? the fluidity of the rotation messes up? if so how were those numbers calculated
i mean 7.2 secs is long enough to get an envenom off then do a 4-5 pt rupture
i must off misunderstood some sort of passive ? SO CONFUSED
marble hemlock
theres no downside to refreshing at 1s
elfin raft
ok so it was just the earliest you can refresh type nujmber
marble hemlock
your goals with dots are to not refresh during TB, not refresh prior to the pandemic window, and obviously not let it fall off entirely
and as far as the CP overcap is concerned, its a trade-off between wasting resources (overcapping CP) and not utilizing the subterfuge garrotes efficiently
sacred ore
@marble hemlock apparently 5 combo points rupture deals less damage than an empowered garrote, so when i have subterfuge talented with shrouded suffocation ill garrote 3 targets during the opener and then use rupture (and ill ignore the combo points capping)
marble hemlock
thats what you described
elfin raft
oh
marble hemlock
refreshing during the last 30% of the full duration, so that remaining duration gets added to the base-duration
elfin raft
werd, thanks for succinct explanation
marble hemlock
keep in mind that the 30% it takes a look at is the rupture or garrote you are going to cast, not the one that was previously applied
so if youre doing a 4cp rupture, that changes the pandemic window for rupture
elfin raft
yeah that makes sense
marble hemlock
so 6/8sec for rupture, 5 for garrote
elfin raft
ah ok now the numbers make sense now
marble hemlock
(rounded down for convenience)
elfin raft
lol
void pecan
one of the WA's in the pins lights up when pandemic is ready
is what I use because lazy.
elfin raft
I think it's afernars right
https://imgur.com/a/UCaZAH4 -- I use his but I added bars because I was used to the bars and it's taking me a bit to get used to icon stuff
his design is so pretty though
civic palm
Rip the bars out, no faster way to learn but to force change.
tough topaz
^^
elfin raft
yeah youre right, but I was using it to like learn the buttons, it was too much at once, I didnt level or gear my character and my friends were taking me into mythics so I had to make it easier for a moment
its why I have the yellow text
to show the binds
civic palm
Sure sure.
elfin raft
last dungeon was the first time i didnt press 5 for SnD, i cant believe its still in my muscle memory after all these years
lol
marble hemlock
dont worry about that
i still sometimes fok at 3cp on singletarget, which is stuck in my muscle memory from legion 😄
lilac coral
still trying out new things for my kingsbane bind lol
elfin raft
I played vanilla, BC and wotlk, all of them had SnD in their rotation at 1 time or another iirc so it's pretty ingrained
lilac coral
think i like having CT there
lilac coral
good ol' F (for fatfinger)
sacred ore
@marble hemlock so it is ok to refresh garrote/rupture at 1 second remaining? :<
cuz i sometimes forget
elfin raft
going from spamming FoK to x3 garrote CT fok rupture tab rupture etc is the one that really blew me out man
marble hemlock
sure
the windows given in the guide are when you want to refresh, the earliest
sooner than that, and you lose duration
later than that is fine, as long as it doestn drop off entirely
sacred ore
alright :<
civic palm
Yeah losing energy regen when we've it as bad as we do is very bad news.
hard gust
hey guys blindside is simming 22 dps over master poisoner, is it worth the extra hassle?
sacred ore
in the guide it says, its better to pair vendetta with vanish, vanish only empowers garrote in my situation? what is so special about pairing them?
I myself, use vanish on cooldown during fights then garrote
civic palm
More damage.
sacred ore
is it ok if i use vanish off cooldown always? or i should wait for vendetta?
marble hemlock
theyre both 2min CD
marble hemlock
asked what?
civic palm
Least you asked 👌
elfin raft
haha
elfin raft
i think he threw the joke back at you
sacred ore
damn i really need to focus these days
elfin raft
lol
main rain
Did they fix the garrote trait yet?
civic palm
Tuesday
marble hemlock
wednesday for the EU peeps
subtle tundra
what was bugged with it?
subtle tundra
uh
marble hemlock
the shrouded suffocation azerite trait @elfin raft
subtle tundra
thats nice to know
elfin raft
ooo
subtle tundra
so ill do a bit more dmg
main rain
So much, that theyll nerf it again 👌
sacred ore
guys when i check the azerite traits in bloodmallet which one should i choose? trait stacking or item level?
normal olive
Small question if i use Rupture with Nightstalker, does the next rupture override the bonus dmg if i re Rupture?
wise frigate
Yes.
void pecan
Have you looked in the pins?
wise frigate
^
strange python
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
wise frigate
Or do that ^
Both have trinket areas. Herodamage is more of an overall resource with talent/azerite combos, trinkets, etc.
wise frigate
Yeah both are fairly accurate. Just keep in mind they are generated using a preset gear set.
vestal wren
a personal sim on raidbots > bloodmallet/herodamage
wise frigate
So what's BiS for that set could be not BiS for your specific gear.
So yeah what fuu said which was my next statement xD
normal olive
Is simcraft calculating trinkets accurate?
In Legion i has some trouble with it before i took a break
vestal wren
usually yes
there can be diffrences if the trinket has a bug and its not mapped in simc
e.g. iirc there is atm a trinket that does not work at all but works in simc, this would ofc sim higher then the result ingame
normal olive
Allright thanks for the quick help everyone!
strange python
yo bois
will assasination ever shine
this expansion?
or its the time for outlaw to shine
civic palm
Yes.
main rain
It's time for snek to take over
prisma pond
Never thought rogue would be as easy as it was back in BC, but snek build proved me wrong
main rain
🐍 🐍 🐍
strange python
the sneks memes are leaking
vestal wren
@strange python go to outlaw and check the pins or use !pin
vestal wren
😉
strange python
what would we do without you fuu
vestal wren
we added quite some commands to the bot.
!pin - sends you the pins
informational ones:
!darkmoon , !stats, !wa , !azerite, !bestspec (probably usefull in the future), !guide, !sims
strange python
!snek
vestal wren
nope
strange python
😢
nimble tartan
!bestspec
prisma monolithBOT
All specs are good. Specific ones shine in specific areas.
Check the following resources for the facts:
Warcraft Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#class=Rogue
Raider.io: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-pre-bfa/all/world/leaderboards
strange python
How do you factor in consumables, etc into raidbots website. Can't seem to find that option
vestal wren
dark isle
Not sure if the word click is intentionally written like dick 😂
Or I'm just 12 years old
strange python
Definitely intentional lmao
vestal wren
XD
civic palm
R O _O D
strange python
I can't believe I missed that tbh so I deserve it
vagrant patio
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
sacred ore
@vestal wren in the buffs section in raidbots i should only choose "bleeding" right? that is if i want to check my dps without any buffs
river quarry
what do you guys think the best professions for rogue are in BFA?
do get that 380 ilv bit of gear tailors do for lw?
nimble tartan
ye
royal lantern
engineering>everything else
crude hinge
so it looks like Shroud is fixed now?
lofty sand
the best profession will forever be alchemy as long as mixology exists.
royal lantern
free gliders>shity flask
safe matrix
the fix for shroud should be pushed on tuesday
crude hinge
oh, okay. Idk what im seeing then. I garrote from stealth and the tick is higher by 501
urban storm
does anyone know if we get another +15 ilvls on necklace at exalted?
safe matrix
read the tooltip of subterfuge @crude hinge
crude hinge
@safe matrix what am i supposed to be seeing?
urban storm
Also causes Garrote to deal 80% increased damage...........etc
safe matrix
crude hinge
ahhh
opaque grotto
Mfw you take talents and don’t read them
lofty sand
Reading is for losers
ebon bramble
"oh this name sounds lovely, i'll take that"
hybrid chasm
what do you expect when ppl dont even manage to read the pins? :p
royal lantern
well, that sounds more like, did read the pins but doesnt care about the talents
strange python
is assa really far behind outlaw and sub?
royal lantern
behind in what?
strange python
performance/dmg
royal lantern
allright, first of all,we talk about minor differences without the 1 balance patch here, and im sure that sub will get a nerf
strange python
I just wanna play assa
and I feel forced to play whats good because I want to be competitive
royal lantern
2, sin does like 5%less st dmg and is bad for m0 dungeons cus the aoe is sustained and shit dies in 5seconds
royal lantern
you simply cant really ramp up in dmg cus the stuff is allready dead when your warrior is using battlecry+bladestorm
spring lantern
Shit will live longer so yes
royal lantern
sub and sin do 2 different things
spring lantern
Btw I don't beleive warriors have BC anymore
strange python
anyway, so you think that assassin might do better than sub/outlaw in high m+?
royal lantern
sin will do more widespread aoe that is strong after a windup, sub has burst aoe and then high priority dmg
main blaze
idk new blade flurry feels awful for sustained aoe
strange python
yep
safe matrix
rogue is the melee king of the expansion
all three specs are considered top tier by m+ players
strange python
even assa?
safe matrix
it depends on what you comp around
yep
m0 is not a good comparison for sin because shit dies too fast
main blaze
Assn is great sustained, Sub is top tier priority target and outlaw is damn good burst
spring lantern
Sin is insane for a little spread cleave too, where Outlaw will really suffer
strange python
I think rupturing 3 targets and spreading posion bomb/crimson to the rest while fan of kniving will be better than the blade flurry
spring lantern
Blade Flurry having less uptime will start to become more apparent in higher M+ where packs will live long enough to need 2 charges and are pulled in rapid succession
strange python
the question is
do I prepare as assasin for the first week of M+
or I stay outlaw
strange python
not sure if its gonna be like in Legion, I remember we had to spam +2s for legendary drops
it was just faster, etc. more ap
if now is better to do high M+ Keys
spring lantern
Optimally you're proficient with all 3 specs for both the raid and M+
So you can adapt to all situations\
strange python
true
main blaze
Toughest thing is getting the azerite pieces for all 3 specs
safe matrix
We do that to encourage people to check all the resources w ehave
the guides/pins of each channel have a lot of good information
and has the information 90% of people ask about
lucid bolt
cool thank you
vagrant patio
Anyone using the "gnarled mood ring" and if so, any good places to farm it?
void pecan
It's a random BOE so, it can trop off any mob
strange python
IIRC the only non-nerfed boe farming method is the "dunes" method in vol'dun, do a custom search for it and hope you get into a group.
it's not very efficient and there will be 14 people there at all times so
subtle sigil
hey, i got some shoulders with either; rezan's fury, twist the knife or blightborne infusion trait, what is the best?
strange python
so if you're alliance you're screwed
woopah, look at the simulations for azerite traits
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
strange python
you can see azerite powers ranked by simulations for each spec.
for the profiles made for those websites.
lone junco
Caviat caviat caviat.
strange python
if they look really close you might have to sim it yourself.
subtle sigil
oh thank you
lone junco
In reality. You will have a handful of azerite traits and various ilvl. That may or may not have dps on the second row. So you'll need to use top gear. On raidbots
That being said. I'm taking a .1% st loss for a gain in cleave. And because deadshot or really cool even if my ilvl is low
subtle sigil
well this will be useful in the future aswell, thanks a lot
stone pilot
i think they finally fixed ss for us servers my ticks are hitting for 5k with 2 traits at 342
stone pilot
yeah but buffed by subterfuge yesterday it was doin 2k
prisma pond
oh man yeah just tried it with 1x 2x and 3x traits
with the 3x trait it crit for 12k
fleet whale
sounds Godly for council fights
prisma pond
lol 1.8k average hit with 0 traits, almost 7k average with 3x
over 70k total damage on a single dot purdy gewd
fleet whale
it could get nerfed
void pecan
Didn't it just get nerfed?
night cypress
lofty junco
11% nerf with the hotfix
if its really fixxed i need to rechant my destroyed pieces^^
prisma pond
trying it in pvp
3x traits, took 1/3rd of a retasdinsd hp with a single garrote
retadins*
slender hare
Anyone on EU who can test?
abstract crescent
azzeroths resonating heart... is that a good trinket
lofty junco
allright EU alliance-antonidas its worked
slender hare
Oh my glorious. Can’t wait to get home and try it out
abstract crescent
how do I know what's worth equipping
lofty junco
1826 w/o, 3371 with 1 trait and 5k with 2 traits
all with SF
the best?
i got head my call on both 340 pieces^^
lofty junco
at least sub is now garbage in front of the Sins^^
@abstract crescent pieces with SS and head my call are the best atm i would sugest
abstract crescent
@lofty junco what do you mean i'm new to wow
abstract crescent
I just got a trinket level 310 , but I lose 119 agi but gainb 650 if it procs
prisma pond
with Cooldowns this 3x trait single cast of garrote did 113k
lofty junco
abstract crescent
what does that mean
lofty junco
!sim
ancient mistBOT
👋
Invite the bot to your Discord: https://goo.gl/uvbnZ4
Join the Raidbots Discord: https://goo.gl/QiWxar
Raidbots website: https://www.raidbots.com/
Send !raidbots -h for help!
@lofty junco
prisma pond
so tried a full opener with the traits working
lofty junco
like ya see check that raidbots page there ya can sim ya and get statweights
lofty junco
340 daggers?
lofty junco
dps?
prisma pond
peaked around 16kish on the raid dummy
no pots
just standard opener
as soon as dots fell off I stopped
tried it in pvp too, it works. Burns close to a 3rd of someone hp in one cast
slender hare
2 traits? Or 3
lofty junco
just 2 SS traits
prisma pond
mine was with 3 traits
slender hare
Same as me then, looks sweet
prisma pond
113k single cast lol
lofty junco
they will nerf it
void pecan
Yeah..
lofty junco
like SW and UBC
lone junco
Lol 20k garrote ticks.
void pecan
wonder if I kept my lower SS train pieces..
lone junco
Nothing to see here kids.
lofty junco
have someone the name of a SS helmet?
abstract crescent
should I queue for random dungeons while questing at 120?
strange python
Cowl of Fluid Machinations
lofty junco
cause eventuelly SS will not sim right cause with 0 to 2 ss traits i gain only 400 dps
lapis moon
@abstract crescent Sure, dungeons are good for getting gear
lofty junco
and WQ
got on my vengeance DH from 300 to330 ilvl with HC and WQ
ohhh now it sim right xD
damn
abstract crescent
@lapis moon are they the only way to gear now? I heard pvp got nerfed for gear
lapis moon
World Quests too, like Blake said
lofty junco
imagine 15k ST
lapis moon
But yeah, PvP is shit for gear
lapis moon
AH trinket is really good
abstract crescent
AH trinket?
lapis moon
Darkmoon Deck: Fathoms
It's a trinket you can buy at the Auction House
But it's price is kinda steep
abstract crescent
is it good for rogues?
abstract crescent
how much is it 😮
lapis moon
Bit north of 100k
lapis moon
It's no big deal
abstract crescent
just started playing only got 23k
lapis moon
Focus on world quests and dungeons
abstract crescent
how do I unlock dungeons
and I queue for random azeroth dungeon says 12 mins timers is that noraml
how do I unlock world quests*
lapis moon
You unlock world quests by going to the other factions islands
west frost
Finish you war campaign
lofty junco
i ahve my Dh tank for gold. make like 10k a day^^
lapis moon
You should get a quest
west frost
And yes queue times are high unless you're a tank
lapis moon
Smart, Blake
lofty junco
that bag what tank and healer get give me 2-3 runes and 900-1k gold^^
abstract crescent
or do I run sylvana's call in one of them
prisma pond
until they nerf it? sure thing
lapis moon
SS will be nerfed as soon as Blizzard see how good it is
west frost
Isn't it honoured with all?
lapis moon
Yes
west frost
I'm almost certain it's honoured
lofty junco
they stack since the last hotfix
west frost
They stack apart from the extra cp
abstract crescent
oh
so what's the point it's only 1k more damage 😮
why not run 1 sylvana's resolve
west frost
It's extra damage per tick
lofty junco
honoured is that 12k rep stage?
west frost
Not on the whole
abstract crescent
is 1k good?
prisma pond
lol
west frost
I think it's 6k
abstract crescent
Isn't 350 extra agi if ally dies or on spell hits better?
abstract crescent
I'm trying to understand
west frost
Go check the numbers, it's in the pinned messages
lofty junco
crimson isle
5 min first try
oak oar
100K is realy insane
lofty junco
imagine it on the sisters in waycrest xD
abstract crescent
I don't understand any of this
west frost
What don't you understand
oak oar
^^
prisma pond
2 sisters take 99% less damage
lapis moon
Look at the picture Blake sent, it ranks traits by damage
lofty junco
then 2nd boss in motherload without CC^^
west frost
The unclear part about ss is it adds the stated damage to each tick, not to the total damage
void pecan
You haven't been here for a while..
west frost
!pins
void pecan
abstract crescent
I legit started playing this week
lofty junco
abstract crescent
!traits
lofty junco
check that
abstract crescent
!traits
lofty junco
@abstract crescent
oak oar
the fathoms deck will be nerfed ?
lapis moon
Where did you hear that?
void pecan
Guessing didn't
oak oar
just asking ^^
void pecan
it was nerfed once already
abstract crescent
alright i'm on herodamage
oak oar
ooh so is curently not the best trinket
lofty junco
oh my godess i see a wall of text/questions incomeing xD
it is
like ya see we need 390/400+ trinket to have something better
oak oar
ok nice thx
abstract crescent
it doesn't talk about second row azerite to chose? or am I blind
lofty junco
thats the green coloured traits
if ya have 340+ azerit gear
def-traits only important for tanks
head my call is the strongest for everything IIRC
weak oak
where would i find that in simc
lofty junco
!sim
ancient mistBOT
👋
Invite the bot to your Discord: https://goo.gl/uvbnZ4
Join the Raidbots Discord: https://goo.gl/QiWxar
Raidbots website: https://www.raidbots.com/
Send !raidbots -h for help!
@lofty junco
weak oak
Cool!
lofty junco
but yeah in a general amtter crit and haste atm really strong for the most people
*matter
crit for CP proccs and haste cause nobody want a slow gameplay xD
lapis moon
If you want fast gameplay, play frost DK 😛
lofty junco
no if i want that i play fury xD
lapis moon
True haha
lofty junco
or outlaw...better then sub...ofc everything is better then sub xD
lapis moon
I hope
weak oak
Weapon DPS
8.04
Agility
1.59
Haste
1.05
Mastery
1.03
Critical Strike
1.02
Off Hand Weapon DPS
0.91
Versatility
0.90
lofty junco
no i hope not
weak oak
so whats this mean
west frost
I'm a light breeze away at any moment
lofty junco
@weak oak ya ahve Pawn?
weak oak
yeah
hazy iron
it means our nerfs inc. quicker
lofty junco
copy and poaste that into ya pawn
wise frigate
Higher the number, the more important it is for you. In a nutshell @weak oak
weak oak
thanks guys!
west frost
It's 1 garrote every 2 minutes, eats all our traits and demands some talents for it
Surely it's not toooo good
Maybe
lofty junco
or 3 garrotes every 2 minutes for MT/elders fights
abstract crescent
is that sarcasm
hazy iron
technically 6 garrotes, 3 at opener, then another 3 at 2min
lofty junco
at least we in pre raid time, many things can happen before the 4/5th sep.
oak oar
i hope they will not nerf it
lofty junco
i hope for sub nerfs^^
oak oar
yes in mm is realy insane
lofty junco
i don't like sub, besides ST fights
oak oar
yes me to the gameplay is buuuh
oak oar
i played rogue only at cata and legion
lofty junco
i since cata^^ just miss the old sub/combat. but the actualy SIn is great too^^
oak oar
yep
prisma monolithBOT
Do my azerite traits stack?
The damage part of azerite Stacks.
Other components can be assumed to stack however with some exceptions and limitations.
You can check https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azeritestacks/1t-t22-assassination for estimations.
lofty junco
so where used atm BLS>MP?
*who
blindside seems only 11 dps stronger then master poisoner^^
strange python
k...i know this probably isnt a big deal. but it felt really good at lvl 50 to top the DPS chart in the dungeon i just went through. this discord/group helped me a lot
lofty junco
for that we're here^^
strange python
i was opening with garrote -> rupture -> swith targets and repeat. once i had 3, i went to first and would either refresh or do marked for death + envnom (macroed them together)
mutilates in between
calm cedar
How is sin stacking up in mythic compared to sub and outlaw currently? Is there a source for this info out there?
tidal jetty
things usually die too fast for sin to shine in my experience
ends up feeling like more work for less rewards
calm cedar
What about in PvP?
pastel wasp
upper island
is suff fixed?
strange python
unable to read?
pale path
I seem to have energy problems even with alacrity. It slows down my rotation quite a bit. Am i doing something wrong or is that just the way it is?
pale path
sorry vigor
fuck
i just feel like im waiting around a lot. This is my first expansion playing rogue so im may just not be used to it
i played a warrior last expansion and that was nuts spam
hazy iron
Keep your bleeds up, and be sure to pool energy before using TB. it's a really slow spec atm due to lack of energy regen
hazy iron
not at all
pale path
ok so even though pacing is slow dps output is still ok>?
hazy iron
they're all fine to learn, it's probably the easiest to get into though
just remember, balancing will be happening soon, so it could get dumpstered
pale path
I just fucking hate the playstyle of outlaw and subtlety seems a little complicated hahahah
hazy iron
sub's not bad once you get the rythm of setting up shadow dances
pale path
ya
hazy iron
it's sooooo bursty at the moment
pale path
ill def learn it eventually
but RtB and just pressing your aoe everything button is not fun gameplay to me
that was the first spec i tried
assassination is nice though
hazy iron
assassination also has the advantage to being able to deal damage whilst still doing mechanics in raid
so, downtime is no where near as punishing as sub
hazy iron
atm sin is terrible for mythics, but that's because everything dies so quick
shoudl be better once m+ opens
strange python
guys
is this macro right for a 1 click macro
#showtooltip kick
/cast shadowstep
/cast kick
i seem to have to hit it twice for it to work
I levelled as outlaw and now playing sin at end game. I am loving it, however, I am experiencing a decent amount of downtime despite having 14% haste. I have heard that it is just the spec but I have also heard that I am doing things wrong. I am doing my rotation as I believe is correct (I.E keeping up ruptures on all targets blah blah blah). Do I not have enough haste or is it just that the spec has quite a bit of downtime due to low energy regen?
i think i is just the downtime in regards with the gear at the moment i personally dont think that gear offers enough haste to sustain the sin rogue
Yeah I am running into gear with not that much haste. I wont give up on the spec since I am still doing decent damage in long enough encounters. Just sometimes feel like I am doing nothing. Thank you though
yeah the main issue is the haste from gear at the moment
secondly
that mobs die real quick and sin rogue cant be used to full cap
not inc boss fight
i really hope that the raid and M+ offers better gear
i know that bliz are putting a hot fix out on wednesday of the raid release but not a clue what yet
See I had a 110 sin rogue in Legion but didnt really play it (Mainly because I sucked at it and didnt have the patience to get a grasp on it). I am transitioning over from my 337 warrior over to my sin rogue and enjoying the challenge very much. But in short encounters sin feels bad because we dont get used to full capacity.
lean condor
@strange python If you can get your hands on a Galecaller’s Boon it sure seems to bring everything together
strange python
Oh really?
lean condor
Yeah the 1min cd is beautiful
vapid moth
I'm really not understanding why the haste azerite traits sim badly either
strange python
I clipped 120 on this toon today and sitting at 309 right now
lean condor
It bumps me to 30% and it feels much better
vapid moth
I was at 100% haste once
lean condor
Have a good night
vapid moth
Poisons tick at 0.9s
strange python
Eyes widen before feinting
dark token
https://i.imgur.com/oMLklxL.png wtf sharpened blades
nimble tartan
WOO SHARPENED BLADES BABY
fleet whale
that has to be a bug or something... unless if Sharpened blades got a stealth buff
night moon
What are the advantages of assassination over outlaw/sub? I never see anyone playing this spec.
vestal dune
Less dps loss from downtime
steep obsidian
depends on what azurite piece it is
winged tangle
so... im really feeling that assassin is weak in pve, and pvp.
losing out in dps to outlaw through and through
and its a really simple spec to play in pve too
opinions?
strange python
L2P
blissful crown
What he said ^
winged tangle
lol theres nothing more to learn in pve. keep dots up. there ya go
blissful crown
I dont lose to anybody
strange python
No you just suck
blissful crown
I rek the shit out of ppl
marsh wagon
keep dots up, pool energy, ?????, profit
blissful crown
And they whine "rogues to OP"
winged tangle
for pve..?
blissful crown
Aye
winged tangle
ya, i play what seems perfectly
winged tangle
dots never die down, always hititng CDs
tame cobalt
Another perfect player poggers
blissful crown
Whats ur dps in mythic?
strange python
This here is the avg lfr player
blissful crown
on a pretty ham and slam boss etc?
strange python
Right here
winged tangle
assassin is very,very easy to play in pve
blissful crown
😄
ionic crown
but very very tricky to min max
blissful crown
And yet you say they suck in pve
winged tangle
it has next to no aoe, which really hurts
strange python
Yet you suck at it
elfin raft
next to no aoe 😦
blissful crown
and i cant imagine how good it will be with higher mythics
winged tangle
all you have is fan of blades
elfin raft
oh hes a troll
winged tangle
so.. .explain at me
winged tangle
i tab through the list, and keep rutpure, poison, and garrote on every target nearly permanently
winged tangle
fan of blades when theres more then 3
winged tangle
ya
blissful crown
whats ur profile, wanna see ur gear.
winged tangle
thats exactly what i do
you can instantly garrote 3-4 ppl from stealth
fan of blades lets you rupture the lot in short order
but it still falls behind compared to outlaw AOE
at least in dmg charts
i really want to know what im actually doing wrong here..
blissful crown
Then go play outlaw
tame cobalt
Isnt outlaw burst aoe class?
blissful crown
Just tell me ur profile name wanna see ur gear and stats
😄
Im just saying that in my m+ grps i top dps everything.
winged tangle
ah hell.. gotta go look up how to spell the a in my name
blissful crown
And when tank pulls +4 mobs i rek the shit out of it
elfin raft
yeah the aoe with mobs that have high health is nutty
elfin raft
people say? do you have your own dps charts?
winged tangle
im 334 IL
no
lol
i seem to do fine in pvp most of the time
what do you use to check characters
site wise
elfin raft
^ hes trying to help, id take it
slender hare
im doing quite fine in dungeons currently after they fixed SS
20k dps on trash packs with 3 garrotes
blissful crown
Same Lauritz.
elfin raft
when i started and wanted to make sure I was pressing the right buttons, i simmed my guy with no raid buffs and hit a raid target dummy and the dps matched pretty much
thats like the baseline
id say imo
baseline test
silk moon
Does the same weapon enchant stacks or how does it work?
elfin raft
answer is in pin
oblique smelt
it has diminishing returns, use your best and second best weapon enchant
silk moon
is it best to use different ones ?
oblique smelt
read what i wrote
silk moon
ah ok thnx
winged tangle
so.. nothing from the profile?
blissful crown
First of all ur azerite traits aint the best, no SS on any piece.
u got alot of mastery, that could be tuned down and in haste/crit
i know that means more luck with gear
no weapon enchants
not the best trinkets
no gems in sockets, no enchants
Well yeah, there you have it.
winged tangle
i have never seen that SS trait before
must be insanely unlucky
and i would love to have more crit/haste, but thats not what i got from the random drops lol
how are you able to pick and choose?
tame cobalt
If you dnt have gems and enchants, thats a ton of haste/crit lost already
winged tangle
how much are wep enchants? and id like to at least get 340s before i enchant
elfin raft
man wtf is going on with sharpened blades
winged tangle
i only just managed to get rid of that fkn cannon spawning trinket..
slim wigeon
