this is like the situation with resto druid rejuv shoulders and traits letting you have rejuvs that lasted 30 seconds, what ended up happening was that your rejuv targets didn't matter due to how long they lasted, same thing as antorus sin's envenom uptime
#assassination
twin tartan
I get that the spec doesn't feel as fun but that's due to us losing tier / leggos and all specs ingame are feeling a similar thing, although thankfully our gameplay at its core remains the same. if we look at some other specs their whole gameplay focus is completely different
give it 4 weeks from now and see how you feel bud, if you still dislike it after getting some raid-gear then fair enough.
fleet whale
and finally, please update the visual on CT. I know it's minor but it just looks really bad
dense cedar
2 target cleave feels kinda okay for some reason
fleet whale
well, you get more energy, sin has always been good at council cleave
dull cargo
I'm kind of enjoying not having to always be pressing a button, the current pacing feels like what I think assassination should play like? Find the right moment to open up in the best way for that situation, wait for the guy to bleed to death and update your bleeds, it feels like you're playing with your food.
Also, it's FoK -> garrote -> rupture AoE rotation is hilarious and can end up doing a tonne of damage over-all. I'm pretty pleased with where it's at.
limber lion
Has SS been fixed? Is it the best simming, working azerite trait?
main blaze
Nope not implemented
dense cedar
Are people able to have full uptime on EP?
autumn robin
dusk void
They aren’t nerfing SS, they are supposedly making it work. Currently is does nothing other than add 2 CP on the garrote from stealth. The damage bonus wasn’t applying, so it was close to useless on live (from my understanding.)
winter gale
So atm and, most likely for 1st raid, Outlaw is the best followed by Sub and Assa on last spot? How likely that could change?
I really dont like outlaw spec
strange python
spare cloud
No
winter gale
Its not like that?
civic palm
SIN is more than likely the best raid spec atm.
spare cloud
Sin is always good
Because consistent af
And eas
And you can do shit and dont lose too much
winter gale
I saw some dps list where it drops for arround 2k behind other 2 specs
strange python
And?
winter gale
And my guildies told me assa is bugged
spare cloud
Every class is bugged
winter gale
And that I should switch
strange python
Im pretty sure OL was #1 rogue on sims pre antorus progress
Yet no one actually competitive played it
Cos they know better
winter gale
Too much rng
winter gale
Thanks guys, I want to play this spec. I love it
Playing butcher/reaper spec is not roguish at all for me
spare cloud
Play whatever you want
green ruin
How could they nerf shrouded suffocation if the fucking talent was bugged anyways LOL
spare cloud
If you need to ask those questions youre not at the level where the specc you play matters
green ruin
Ohandza they haven't even done any tuning, they are waiting till mythic release
So play whatever
civic palm
They still have the numbers for the theoretical working model, as even we do, so nerfing it is fine.
winter gale
Ok
lofty sand
Assassination will never be weak, Sub always had more damage but its hard as hell to perform, suffers from any sort of interruption, its unreliable. And Outlaw simply was designed to be played by people who really love to aoe.
winter gale
Thanks alot
lofty sand
Assassination is simply reliable.
green ruin
Besides I thought the point of shrouded suffocation was the free combo points, not the dmg
green ruin
Well duh
lofty sand
I never use that talent these days, I wish they would give up on that idea
green ruin
Nothing like opening up with garrote and being at 5cp
lofty sand
Yeah, its boring though. Passive talent it just happens while you do your normal rotation. I wish they gave us something like Death from Above, something we could use actively to raise ST
CT is such a cool addition
raven mica
I think that’s what they were aiming for with blindside
green ruin
Most azerite stuff is boring tho unfortunately :(
lofty sand
Blindside is a neat skill, too bad its underperforming
spare cloud
Yeah well they will surely introduce stuff im the future
raven mica
CT sound effects need to be updated immediately though
lofty sand
I hope so, but otherwise I'm pretty content with assassination right now. It works, and it will work better when they fix the bugs
raven mica
When I hear CT I hear like the hearthstone whirlwind noise
spare cloud
They said that they are kinda using bfa as a base to build upon further
signal blade
is sin more for pve or pvp?
spare cloud
And its alright for now
signal blade
i was playing sub and honestly hated it.
lofty sand
Sin works well on pvp and pve
raven mica
Maybe he’s asking cuz like ya know how sub has kinda always been “oh yea that’s the PvP spec” for the longest time except for periods/7.2.5 onwards
signal blade
yeah thats all i meant
i guess i should have asked if sin was both viable for both pvp and pve
spare cloud
Afaik assa is not the nonplusultra in pvp
raven mica
Well sin historically since ICC has never really been a dogshit spec since
lofty sand
your question should be "is sin well equipped for pvp?" then we would tell you to ask #pvp where those questions should be asked.
raven mica
Anyone remember a time where assassination was bad?
spare cloud
However every rogue specc is viable
raven mica
Post ICC?
lofty sand
Not really
signal blade
what can i ask/say here?
lofty sand
anything related to the spec that is not specific to pvp. Since there is a whole channel dedicated to that?
merry anchor
Mut/prep was life
lament sandal
Does anyone garrote, rupture, and then garrote again for 3 more combo points and extended garrote duration?
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
blissful crown
How is ppls opener?
I mean after i garrote mut rupture, i tend to have more energy so when i use vendetta i actually waste energy cause capped
And when u pair ur vanish with vendetta, du u vendetta before vanish?
dark token
so i just realized my outlaw gear has 3x shrouded suffication 340
zealous sable
Why would you pair them? Just do vanish garote when your first one is ending
dark token
should i play sin 🤔
blissful crown
@zealous sable Just read the sin guide and they said pair vendetta with vanish, i havnt done that so far yet.
I always just vanish on CD and garrote and do the whole thing again
zealous sable
Well you pair it in that you do it inside your Vendetta window but you dont do them at the same time
If we are talking opener that is
They should be paired if the fight is in progress
blissful crown
I meant when in fight, i mean after you have done ur opener and ur first garrote expires
vanish is ready
do you vanish garrote
there and continue
When the fight is in process, then you just use vendetta when ready then vanish -> garrote -> mut - rupture/envenom and then keep going
odd tundra
@dark token yes
vestal dune
Is garrote mut from stealth a dps gain over double garrote?
blissful crown
U mean in the opener?
blissful crown
I never do double garrote
Tbh
dno whats best
I just do pre pot -> garrote -> mut -> rupture -> vendetta -> mutilate -> toxic blade -> trinket -> envenom. And then just envenom spam
And keeping up rot, and when garrote needs refresh i vanish garrote muti rupture if needed else garrote
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
civic palm
dense cedar
hey guys
do I want to use daggers or sword wqhen i play ass the asssassin spec of rogue
civic palm
No one can answer that question.
odd tundra
auto atk with swords
dense cedar
ty
odd tundra
np have a great afternoon
dark token
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pWrKNWi6ZtoXp3ZQ1s8A4a hmm not bad actually
for this
civic palm
2 7 3
dense cedar
wow, blizzard ruining my assassin sword experience
safe matrix
Alsofor your question in #385145484559253506 you pick whatever is optimal
You can sim which traits are best, or you can look at the sims on herodamage
dense cedar
ah ok
safe matrix
Some are really good if you have one, and some stack on eachother super well
blissful crown
@dark token wierd that u sim more than me with 2 less ilvl and worse weapons 😄
im at 11.955 dps atm
dark token
the power of darkmoon deck and triple SS
dark token
yeah my gear is really good stat weight for all 3 spec
blissful crown
True
whats ur stats? Im sitting at 18% crit 15% haste 23% mastery 4% versatility
btw does the overwhelming power stack? Can see i got it on 2 items
safe matrix
Yes
blissful crown
Fine
warm sable
So SS fixed we can stack them now ?
safe matrix
iirc the hotfix hasn't gone through yet
warm sable
I am useing only one SS because as i know thay dont stack, so i am looking for Dagger in the Back ... Whats better 3SS or 1 SS and 2x Dagger in Back ?
wise frigate
I'd be surprised if it hasn't gone live yet cause the notes that listed that change are from the 24th.
dark token
why is this not allowing me to equip 2 of the same dagger here?
i wanna test out gear sets
safe matrix
I think there's a bigger patch on Tuesday
With feral buffs
Do they say unique equipped?
wise frigate
Top Gear only lets you test valid combos that you currently have.
wise frigate
Sounds like it wasn't happy about the manual adding of the weapons maybe?
Could pop over to the Raidbots Discord and see if someone has an idea.
I'm sure someone has stumbled upon that issue before.
blissful crown
Quick Navigation on both weapons?
dull copper
Quick and Deadly
safe matrix
Two highest weighted stats unless top weight is massive
stuck oyster
are we sure that the ss fix is not live yet?
strange python
How about you go and test
weak isle
what ss fix if i may ask?
safe matrix
Shrouded suffocation azerite trait damage didn't stack
So the fix is fixing that problem
weak isle
ah oki thnx 😄
livid bronze
so even tho they are nerfing the dmg its because they are stackable now like they should have been?
once the change happens that is
lofty junco
so SS its fixed now?
midnight ledge
There is something i have been struggling to understand atm. Why everyone is playing outlaw and sub if we go to top dmg sims on wowprogress everyone is playing that specs? Is it more viable or whats going on?
prime stirrup
because they deal higher dmg right now. most mobs dont live long enough for our multi garrote/rupture to = the burst of sub/outlaw
midnight ledge
Im 343ilvl at sin and dealing with then just fine lol
prime stirrup
I am too, but you asked why everyone is playing another spec. its because they sim higher dps for it
Its also significantly easier to get ilvls as outlaw. you have a much larger weapon loot pool
midnight ledge
How is that even possible when we push 14k dps easy against sub or outlaw in st
zealous sable
I doubt an assasination rogue beats a sub on pure single target assuming they are equally good
prime stirrup
if sims are correct we dont beat any other rogue in ST
Maybe when theres more haste available it will be different
but if sims are correct same ilvl sin loses to outlaw/sub
zealous sable
They are close enough that it doesn't matter, also when you include things like Assassination being easier to play with boss tactic you will pretty much do the same
round oar
Off topic question; is anyone else struggling with getting daggers from wq's or emissaries or dungeons? I'm still using crafted ilvl 300 daggers for assassination where as I've gotten a fist weapon and mace for outlaw (ilvl 340-345) and I deal marginally more dmg as outlaw. I joined in legion so I'm not familiar how much weapons affect your dmg, would my dmg spike more as assassination if my weapons were up to date?
midnight ledge
Sims are sims. Fights are not dps race steady on same spot
prime stirrup
@round oar yes we all are. you have 6 avaialble dagger drops. its abysmal as hell out here for a sin
zealous sable
Well you said that we push higher versus them now, and I would say that 90% of the dungeon bosses are stand still dps
midnight ledge
My idea was ppl going easy way out on sub outlaw cuz of weapons
zealous sable
Or they just prefer the spec? Its not like there are few assassination rogues
prime stirrup
and we just went through 2 tiers of being top dog
midnight ledge
In my server in the only one on top20 lol
prime stirrup
outlaws are probably rejoicing
zealous sable
I mean a lot of Outlaws are cheesing in the dungeons right now but when Uldir comes out there will be way more
midnight ledge
Started asking my self what is going on
round oar
Just gotta pray for those dagger drops man. That's the thing that's prolly dragging all sins atm.
midnight ledge
I got 2 daggers atm 335/340 sims 11.8k dps
prime stirrup
i bought rotating dagger of xing or whatever because after running 20 mythics and getting no daggers i just cant take it
zealous sable
Managed to convince myself to sell my Xing, got lucky and got my final 340 weapon on the last dungeon that could drop one this week
prime stirrup
Im going to go through mythics this week with outlaw lootspec and only go to sin loot for bosses that drop daggers
lets face it, im just going to get 5 azerite pieces again
round oar
I've done mythics two weeks now and no drops, I just hope I'll manage to get daggers before raiding starts.
lofty junco
so worked now SS or its the fix not live like all days before?
prime stirrup
blake. go frigging test it
opaque tree
@lofty junco is that even english? my eyes hurt from reading that
blissful crown
what are the reward from emissary today on EU servers?
dull copper
AP for alliance
opaque tree
doubt you'll get a dagger from Emissary stuff
blissful crown
^^
But again if i sim a 340 dagger its only like 150 dps increase compared to my 310
prime stirrup
Horde did they got a 340 dagger
blissful crown
So i should be happy with the one i got in MH.
prime stirrup
i have a 325 offhand right now. if i sim it vs the mythic version i gain 600dps
median sonnet
There was a 340 mace few days ago from emissary, so I'd say dagger is possible
opaque tree
offhand dagger is more stats anyway
median sonnet
Question is, will it happen any time soon :p
blissful crown
Yeah
opaque tree
i had a 340 dagger mainhand and a 340 in offhand. A 310 dagger with a socket in offhand because the stats were perfect, was simming higher in offhand than the 340
pretty ridiculous
strange python
Horde already got 340 dagger and fist as reward
prime stirrup
well we got 100 war resources from same quest as they got a 340 dag
so woooo! go alliance
opaque tree
what faction gave them the dagger?
prime stirrup
horde emmisary
i think we actually got 400 war resources. but legit who cares about those
opaque tree
lame
strange python
2k18 and playing alliance
median sonnet
While the 340 mace reward was a nice low blow already by itself, of course I got the item warforged to 345 to further add the pain :P
blissful crown
Its hard to make everyone happy, outlaw and shamans etc seems happy with the 340 mace/fist
Had it been a dagger then they would just have whined 😄
blissful crown
Yeah u right
prime stirrup
except outlaw have 14 different weapon drops from mythic dungeons they can use. while sin has 6
so like if they salty then they are dumb.
median sonnet
Yeah, but one could think that rogues have 2/3 specs using daggers, that daggers were more common as WQ rewards - yet in EU alliance, past 5 weapon rewards have been for OL :|
strange python
HF getting those 6/300 from box as TF
prime stirrup
Im just glad the AH game so easy right now so i can buy a xing
median sonnet
It's random yes, but could be weighted a bit at least
prime stirrup
It really does need to be stronger weighted. I got 12 azerite pieces from 20 mythic dungeons. Im just lucky i ran with a DH that could trade actual loot to me
prime stirrup
who cares
blissful crown
And raiding :p
stuck hare
crimson tempest is worth right for dungeons?
strange python
Yes
stuck hare
thanks
dense cedar
Crimson Tempest Gang
blissful crown
but i cant change talents in mythics when going can u?
dense cedar
combo points are spent on better things
stuck hare
ok then
blissful crown
Atleast not in legion you couldnt 😄
prime stirrup
you cant here either. you also wont be able to change gear in m+
blissful crown
Dno whats the best to run with, in trash heavy dungeons CT might be the option.
I havnt tried to use it yet, i just run with pb
dense cedar
CT is best for all dungeons
strange python
Who cares
dense cedar
CT is very good cos
it gives
something
it does things
therefore making to better
prime stirrup
that PB which also does something
im not arguing your point, just the logic you used to get there
blissful crown
Gotta try it out later.
strange python
is the rotation for mob packs similar to subelty where you use the FoK to generate and then spend on CT/Rupture/Envenom? or is there something I'm missing
river pawn
hi guys
lament dove
I don't get how CT is good right now, if you follow the CT > rupture priority, you're gonna get energy starved very soon, if you put up a few ruptures to have energy, the mobs die before you'll use CT
vestal dune
You open with 3 garrotes
lament dove
of course I open with 3 garrotes, but that doesn't magically skyrocket my energy
vestal dune
Idk how you get starved with 3 bleeds then
ionic crown
not applying poison
vestal dune
Once I apply poison to one of them, i switch the target so I can make sure the 3 of them have poisons
uneven summit
down to 60 versa now 😮
vestal dune
I might have a couple of seconds of downtime, but thats it, I dont feel starved at any point
uneven summit
What are peoples stats like, and their simmed DPS ?
silk jolt
man i think sin is in a good place
river pawn
sin is good mate but doesnt feel good
river pawn
i think with more haste sin get better felling
we need raid items
or mythic plus items
blissful crown
Yu+p
Yup
Thats why at this state u cant really say, ppl should play what they like. I keep playing sin cause i believe it will get better with gear getting higher stats.
green ruin
Sin is and always been about having stats, so it's okay to feel weird or starved atm
Also gotta wait for the big class tune that is going to happen before mythic raids are released
blissful crown
Yeah.
green ruin
Not sure about ct over pb right now tho because getting a couple pb in a row makes me feel good lol
strange python
canyone explain what causes FoK to generate extra Combo Points when its not a melee attack
Read tooltip
not sure what I'm missing it reads as if its only generating one CP
Seal Fate my dude
lament dove
yes, only on crits, that's why it feels weird now and that's why it will get better
stiff tartan
[Battle Potion of Agility] vs [Potion of Bursting Blood] which one is best ?
valid junco
holy shit guys , just noticed that our mutilate tooltip doesnt include "reguires daggers " anymore
testing and simmin soon something funny 😄
valid junco
oh damn , the requires daggers come when you dont have daggers on 😄
royal lantern
you cant use it with only 1 dagger
valid junco
nope , god damn=D
royal lantern
sin/sub both use daggers only(you need a really high ilvl difference on sub too use a normal 1h without losing dps)
lofty sand
Can sub use 1h? I thought they also lost skills without daggers 🤔
valid junco
i think they can offhand 1h
warm parcel
Slow weap would be meaningless anyway
royal lantern
like i said, sub CAN use 1h weapon as offhand, but should not do it
lofty sand
thats pretty funny
valid junco
hmm AZ3-R1-T3 Engineer helms trait Relational Normalization Gizmo seems to be buffed a bit , gives now change to get 767 haste or 471 agi , with health and speed secondary effects. but that haste sounds good !
cause u can inner trait Overwhelming power that ggants around 600haste too
have to sim this out
marginal single target change , i just go with the Synaptic Spark and heed my call , gives more aoe
thorn crater
i have a question that im not sure if it should be here or on TC
why does TtK sim so low. i mean to say having extra envenom dmg plus extending it would make it easier to perma maintain
or close to perma
wouldnt that make it a better talent overall
both ST and aoe since u can fok to apply DP easier?
and each extra application of DP proccs IP?
or is it a stats thing cause we dont have enough crit yet?
prime stirrup
its more we have shit mastery/haste
thorn crater
well the trait works with the crit
i mean extending
basically that trait would make crit> haste
lone junco
is that the extended env buff?
thorn crater
yes
lone junco
extending buff only increases application rate of DP
prime stirrup
you shouldnt have much problem keeping high uptime on envemon already
thorn crater
yes but high uptime with perma envenom is sth different
lone junco
so if you get a little more uptime, without scaling the poison it itself, then the gain is pretty low.
in T21 we had mechanics that loved env uptime. and application
prime stirrup
^^
thorn crater
how to make the simc replace on its own
lone junco
copy the string, and paste into Raidbots
prime stirrup
premium
valid junco
equip shit u want to sim and /simc
lone junco
no
prime stirrup
or just set sim for bags and deal with maybe not having enough iterations available
lone junco
/simc top gear.
Select all the variations you want.
Smart sim will let you do like 70 iterations
once you found your bis then rerun it singly for statweights.
thorn crater
cause like the simc app doesnt let u or i dont know how
lone junco
currently I run the top 5 shoulder/helm/chest traits all at once.
then once it has picked the top, I run again and pick through all the rest of my gear
trinkets, 3rd ring. 2nd boot etc.
dont be dumb and select a 275 item.
thorn crater
oh tirnkets fucke it up
lone junco
if you know one trinket is god. (fathoms) lock that one
thorn crater
i had 3 more trinkets
i got gale today
but its better for sub
i guess
ill just check the rest of the items
and check trinkets separately
lone junco
the real q. is what fight are you going for? and be consistent
I use 2min Patchwerk right now.
because, reasons
lone junco
with azerites I make sure to pick the top occurance of each trait.
so click or unclick the buffs for each slot.
you only need one SS or Rupture etc.
my bags have like 2 chest 8 hats 15 shoulder
lone junco
once you have picked everything for ST.
then I run it again on 4T 40s. and see if you need to make a small loss ST for a massive gain AOE
just make sure to turn buffs/lust off for the shorty sims.
wild lagoon
Anyone finding it impossible to get dagger drops? Ive been 120 since the day after bfa launched and only just got a 325 hc dagger last night. Seems blizzard are favouring outlaw over sin and sub as maces and swords have been all over world quests...
weak pine
Yea daggers have been hard to come by for me
I had to do 100+ HCs(first dagger ones daily, then random) just to get both hands to 325. No warforges
The only redeeming thing has been the honorbound emissary for 340 one so far
weak pine
Alliance should only be talking when they get a raiding guild to top 10
fallen thistle
only for eu horde scum. na horde scum didn't get that emissary
lofty junco
blizzard favorite that EU horde scum....
weak pine
It's the only good thing we've had
royal lantern
im sorry that blizz gave horde all the op racials, cus otherwise nobody would play them
(allright ill stop)
weak pine
Alliance got OP rep gains and the best pvp racial both in 1 race
thorn crater
ure right cause humans weren the best rogues for the last 10 years
lets make dark iron dwarfs
and give them EVERYTHING
lofty junco
trolls was the last years best race....
lofty sand
70% of the horde is belfs, loktar ogar, right bros??? hehe...
royal lantern
victory or death? you mean fight til shit goes bad and then run away
weak pine
Female belfs*
wild lagoon
Nothing compares to the superior Gnome race... #ForTheGnomes
weak pine
Where's my crystal dwarf race blizzard? I want magni on my side
lofty sand
Arcane Torrent was broken the whole Legion, thats why horde has most of their pve prowess, plus goblins on KJ and other silly shit
vestal wren
AT was not relevant for raiding
royal lantern
portal keeper?
lament dove
only for m+
lofty junco
what did ya guys used as "sim-setup" for m+(like heactic add cleave etc.)?
royal lantern
we had 2 mages go fire for dragons breath cus we got problems with the interupts, horde just spammed arcane torrent
vestal wren
goblins are probably questionable but those guilds who blamed goblins for not beeing able to kill KJ and transfered over to horde did seem to struggle even with this HUGE advanatage on horde
lone junco
@lofty junco I use 8T 20s patchwerk. 4T 40s. and 1T 2min. (make sure to turn off raid buffs for the short packs)
since we cant switch gear (in the future), I just look at them across the board and make a decision.
vestal wren
yes and you def. needed at to farm low keys in the beginning or +10/15 later
that seems 100% accurat
i remember all the groups: BLOODELF OR DECLINED
lofty sand
name a single relevant pve racial in the alliance
lofty junco
siege or underroot
flat nexus
is there a raidable raid in bfa ?
royal lantern
its always the same, 1 and 3th boss are piss easy
vestal wren
kings may has a place
lofty junco
human racial to come out of a stun
royal lantern
kings will be hard with fortified ye
weak pine
Kings is def a challenge at some weeks
lofty junco
usefull for command in antorus for a example
weak pine
3s stun is laughable
vestal wren
kings with only melee group will be fun 😃
wild lagoon
Freehold will be easy, use shroud on group at top of the first set of stairs to avoid the first packs of trash
royal lantern
because people dont fuck up shroud all the time
weak pine
You can avoid all thrash before first boss with shroud
royal lantern
´´lets walk trought the enemys, wath could go wrong?´´
vestal wren
new shroud is quite big, so ppl should be able to use it decently
weak pine
Half the time the tank pulls mobs regardless
royal lantern
^
vestal wren
just make a macro: "APE SQUAT FOLLOW THE ROGUE"
royal lantern
´´yeha guys, mass stealth for the next groups till boss´´
weak pine
Lol that sounds better than my "shroud active"
royal lantern
activate shroud, 4 seconds later MUH PALADIN SHIELD THROW
wild lagoon
Either that or druid healer waits, send group to go die at boss area and then cat form stealth past the trash and res the party, but would lose only a small amount of time from the deaths
I like that rogues become essential in Tol Dagor M+ for unlocking gates, gotta bag those BiS daggers :D
royal lantern
sure that they will not simply disable that for m+?
vestal dune
Isnt there an inscription recipe that allows to lockpick and is quite cheap?
urban storm
royal lantern
there are no lockboxes too right?
weak pine
There's a blacksmithing lockpick
royal lantern
doesnt matter for 99%/deepens on st/cleave/aoe/its in the pins
weak pine
there's only 1 pin
strange python
haha
lofty sand
best in what?
royal lantern
pandaren/troll/dark iron if i remember right
strange python
also i really hope that the M+ and new raid offers more in regards with stats for sin rogue
mobs die far too quickly for sin to use full dots
lofty sand
pandaren/troll and Belf are the best pve wise still
hollow trail
with a rogue named shreq, orc is the best and only race to be.
raven mica
Panda rogue is best after losing fall damage artifact trait
hollow trail
shadowstep or grappling hook can be used to avoid the damage too, thats saved me a few times.
royal lantern
*panda is the best
royal lantern
you get alot more angry pm's when you gank people:P
livid bronze
as mut in M+, if we want to compete with sub prio dmg, should we be going Exsang?
lofty sand
prio dmg??
livid bronze
priority damage
lofty sand
you mean ST?
lofty sand
either way, no I don't think Esanguinate is competitive in any situation
livid bronze
they are different things
i just thought having the burst to nuke a mob like the infested would play to exsang's strengths
cerulean walrus
Honestly Exsang has always felt like a meme talent to me
livid bronze
i dont disagree
cerulean walrus
I think Toxic would just be better to go with cause it seems more consistant
cerulean walrus
The problem I see is that if you pop Exsang into a mob when it is priority is that it'll be nuked either way, wasting the CD
livid bronze
I just personally dont want to play sub in M+'s but everyone says you have to for high keys cuz of their priority damage. I'm trying to see if I could make mut have more priority damage by maybe a talent swap or 2
lofty sand
Why would anyone care about your choice of spec for M+?
cerulean walrus
Because muh Method said so
livid bronze
what do you mean?
lofty sand
play what you want
livid bronze
i care.
cerulean walrus
Its not that simple in M+
lofty sand
Then play whatever feels fun for you
cerulean walrus
Sub has a different toolkit than Sin
livid bronze
because I want to be the best asset to my group
cerulean walrus
They are good for different things
lofty sand
Depends on the fight
cerulean walrus
^
lofty sand
its not as simple as This spec > this other spec
livid bronze
im not saying it is
lofty sand
Sub has way more shit to juggle, they are a beast at ST damage if they can sit there and focus on their rotation, but they dont deal very well with mechanics and having to move away
livid bronze
I'm merely stating that sub has really strong priority damage which is really strong in 10+ keys. So how does Mut adjust to bring that
lofty sand
Assassination is simpler and doesn't suffer from having to move away from the their targets for a bit
cerulean walrus
It's this simple. Raids: Sin>Sub M+ Sub>Sin
livid bronze
im not raiding
lofty sand
If you play like a god, with the mechanics of a robot, sub does 5% more damage than Assassination in every situation. Is that what you want to hear?
cerulean walrus
Sin has more wiggle room in its rotation so you don't completely faceplant on DPS
lofty sand
thats what simulation tells us currently
livid bronze
obviously you are being silly @lofty sand because you arent actually reading my questions
lofty sand
No, I'm not. You want us to answer a very specific question under some shady assumptions. How are we supposed to know? Each fight has its own situations, its impossible to give you a straight answer.
austere mesa
sorry to interrupt, sin meticulous scheming vs poisoned wire, to me it seems like a pretty reliable opener on meticulious
cerulean walrus
The best bet you have in M+ would be to rock CT over PB if you aren't already. Exsang might be better if you go with CT because its another bleed in your belt
lofty sand
In general if you have to do mechanics, Sin is better. If not, sub is better
raven mica
Isn’t rogue always put on mechanic bitch duty anyways?
cerulean walrus
Sub will typically be better because it lacks ramp up time
lofty sand
Because you want an impossible answer. No one here will know how to answer that
how the hell are we supposed to answer?
strange python
Sin has much more consistent dmg with AoE and in high mechanic fights. However, it is not as effective in ST than sub
livid bronze
I'm not asking "is x spec better than y spec"
you just are turning it into because you want to
I'm asking how do you increase mut's priority damage in a M+ to bring it more in line with subs
cerulean walrus
You can't. You'd be energy starved
grizzled harness
You won't.
livid bronze
Okay, that's what I wanted to know. Thanks guys 😃
cerulean walrus
Of course
lofty sand
what
you wanted to know if Sub does more damage ST? Isnt that what I said in the begining of this?
wtf
cerulean walrus
Priority* Not ST
livid bronze
^^
livid bronze
hence why i kept saying "PRIORITY" damage
lofty sand
lmao, alright
cerulean walrus
Yeah sub will be better in that regard unless you get full bleeds on all targets for energy regen
livid bronze
so once infested goes away, we may see less need for priority damage?
cerulean walrus
Even then it can't keep up as well
livid bronze
right
thats why i was thinking Exsang might bridge the gap slightly but wasn't sure.
cerulean walrus
If you are an absolute legend at refreshing bleeds then maybe
livid bronze
some of the guides suggest it for priority damage in M+'s
raven mica
I would think that toxic blade does that job too
cerulean walrus
^
raven mica
But is overall much more useful
cerulean walrus
That's why I stick with TB as well
livid bronze
My question about TB though is does it equal the "burst" of exsang?
cerulean walrus
MOre so
royal lantern
tb itself does some pretty good dmg
livid bronze
cuz isnt the idea of TB to fit as many envenoms as possible?
royal lantern
without spamming 3x envenom
cerulean walrus
Because you try and cram as many Envenoms in as possible
But the ability itself is good
livid bronze
right
cerulean walrus
It takes a pretty decent chunk of health out of anything you hit with it
livid bronze
so if i want to mut in a M+, i should probably get another dps i nthe group to do the priority damage
royal lantern
dmg wise TB itself is bettwen a 3-4 combo point envenom that gives you a combo point with low energy cost+makes your weapon poison better
livid bronze
well yeah
cerulean walrus
Alrighty guys I gtg take it easy
final hull
hmm , guys what talents should i pick for dungeons right now
marble hemlock
221XX22
lofty sand
wait, hidden blades for lvl 100 talent?
final hull
hmm
lofty sand
I dont think anyone uses that
marble hemlock
PB sucks and you dont generate enough CP for CT to be worth using
final hull
why subterfurge ?
marble hemlock
to jumpstart the energy generation on trashpacks
lofty sand
Wait, what dungeons are we talking about? Normal dungeons?
final hull
myth
marble hemlock
well, ive been playing it in hcs and m0s
lofty sand
You get more than enough combo points to use CT on M0s
lofty sand
I'm pretty sure Hidden blades doesn't even compete with RNG bomb
marble hemlock
well, depends a little on what azerite traits youre running. im using 2scent, was planning on running 3, and at that point your CP are better spent on multi-rupturing more
marble hemlock
it increases your fok damage by 20% every 2secs?
lofty sand
its a great talent to kill critters
final hull
hmm
marble hemlock
so in that sense its a somewhat consistent dps increase to your most prominent aoe damage ability
final hull
i think CT is better
marble hemlock
well, as i said, depends a bit on your azerite pieces. if youre not running scent, or only 1, then CT might be worth using earlier into the pull
if you do however run multiple scent traits, then making sure you multi-rupture as much as possible has higher priority
livid bronze
how does that affect Hidden blades at all with you multi rupturing?
marble hemlock
because you use fok as a builder?
livid bronze
right??? but still
lofty sand
it doesn't, it just raises the FoK damage
marble hemlock
i dont even
livid bronze
where as CT works constantly and is consistent
marble hemlock
so is the fok increase?
lofty sand
every 10s you can throw a single stronger FoK. So if you're doing normal dungeons where nothing has a lot of HP, you can stay on top of the dps.
livid bronze
its not tho
marble hemlock
whether 1 fok is incrased by 400% or 20 foks are increased by 20% doesnt matter
its the same outcome
livid bronze
lol?
marble hemlock
overall
livid bronze
that 20% is still lower than a max CP CT
marble hemlock
when looked at in a vaccuum, yes
livid bronze
what?
marble hemlock
but theres an opportunity cost to using CT
sicne youre not using a different finisher
theres is none to HB
livid bronze
are you speaking english?
marble hemlock
that opportunity cost becomes higher the more scent traits youre running, since every CT you cast is one less rupture running
livid bronze
....
lofty sand
Look, in a Mythic dungeon you will be using FoK multiple times depending on the size of the pull, the talent will only affect the first one. And if you're chain pull you will never build enough stacks to make it worth
while CT is always there
livid bronze
....
marble hemlock
2sec after that first fok, the talent provides another bonus, albeit a smaller one
livid bronze
hes not understanding it leo lol
lofty sand
I don't even understand what is this conversation about anymore
lofty sand
Neither do I. I don't get his plan, but if you like those FAT FoKs dude, then more power to you.
livid bronze
after your first fok, the talent is a loss
royal lantern
fok itself has a pretty low dmg, 20%is not that usefull imo
yoe are probably better with PB if you dont want too take CT
marble hemlock
i dont like the fat foks. its just that bomb isnt worth using, and CT comes with the caveat that you dont spread ruptures as fast you could
and fok makes up 30-40% of your overall damage on a trashpull, atleast it does for me
lofty sand
CT does more damage than ruptures depending on the size of the mob my friend
marble hemlock
since it has pretty good AP scaling, which synergizes well with multirupturing as much as possible with 2+ scent traits
royal lantern
wut
marble hemlock
you dont cast rupture for the damage, you cast it for the energy generation and the scent-agi gain
royal lantern
for me its always garrote>ct>weapon poison
livid bronze
the mobs wont live long enough to milk the Rupture dmg
lofty sand
Yes, but your first CT then you spread ruptures, then you refresh CT. Thts how you aoe as assassination now
livid bronze
^
lofty sand
and there is little to no energy starvation in that
specially if you open with garrotes
livid bronze
I'm usually starved so i must be spamming to hard XD
marble hemlock
last time i played around with different talent combinations/azerite combinations the one i suggested came out ahead when doing actual dungeons, id be surprised if things changed since then
lofty sand
subterfuge lets you garrote 3 targets, if you have the azerite trait by the second mob you will already have 5 cp and you can follow with a CT. Then you garrote again for more cp, then you multi and you already have a rupture up
marble hemlock
but obviously youre entitled to the way youre playing, i was just giving my suggestion as someone whos tried out a few different things quite extensively at the start of bfa
lofty sand
I've been playing Assassination since Legion
livid bronze
its not an entitled way of playing.
lofty sand
all the way till right now
slender peak
CT is super strong. Subterfuge 3 garrotes plus 1 rupture gives you tones of energy to CT. Then I switch between rupture refresh ct finishers. Pull easy 20k on large packs 10k+ on 4-5 mob packs
vapid moth
^
royal lantern
garrote3x>rupture>spam fol til 4-5combo points>rupture>CT>use garrote on cd and keep 2 ruptures up
marble hemlock
yeah well, hard to compare pulls, but hb does the same numbers, or more, at least for me, so 🤷
vapid moth
I dont agree with spreading ruptures doe
livid bronze
so when using fok, do we just keep from capping energy or do you full deplete at the start?
slender peak
Do you just CT spam and skip ruptures?
royal lantern
thats how i do it and i never really have energy problems and the dmg is good enough, most of the time highest in pug groups(but pug's dont really count cus most people suck hard)
marble hemlock
3x garrote into rupture, into fok/2-3cp rupture spread, once thats achieved and youre sitting at 6-8scent stacks, alternate between 4+ envenoms/rupture refreshes
livid bronze
@slender peak was that at me?
slender peak
It was @vapid moth
lofty sand
Well even if your numbers are like that which I'm not sure I believe, Hidden blade will simply fall off very hard as mobs get more HP. It doesn't scale
marble hemlock
its sustained dps, it doesnt change?
only a very small portion of your overall damage will be from the first fok
royal lantern
but more dots are better for sustained dps?
lofty sand
how are you going to build Fok stacks while fighting a pack? are you going to sit there and not fok?
lean fox
Been using HB for the current low end content - where stuff dies super fast. I've seen an increase in DPS from doing so. However, I do think CT will pull ahead once stuff lives longer. We shall see.
marble hemlock
CT will pull ahead eventually, and that is mostly due to us getting higher crit, which enables faster CP generation. but currently the highest priority is to spread enough bleeds to be able to spam on the GCD
lofty sand
Like I said, its a great talent for killing critters and doing normal dungeons
but thats about it
slender peak
Even if the dps is good with the fok. You will loose out significantly on ST fights over other artifact traits where you wont be able to stack ruptures
lean fox
That's why I said low-end content, also as groups are getting more geared, even M0 trash is dying super fast
marble hemlock
well, as i said, ive tried both, and HB seemed to provide better results in m0s. and im fairly sure i know how to play :>
livid bronze
I'm fairly sure you arent doing CT right if HB is pulling ahead 😃
marble hemlock
yeah, the azerite choice might affect the talenting quite a bit
royal lantern
can you give us a talent sim? just a question?
lofty sand
I'm fairly sure you almost convinced a new player into picking a meme ultra niche build
livid bronze
I'd like a sim as well
marble hemlock
id have to write a custom apl for the way i play the HB build im running right now
royal lantern
maybe it does sim higher for you, but then give us proof pls
marble hemlock
sims arent really that accurate when it comes to m+/m0 gameplay, was the same issue in legion
slender peak
Well you could always post a damage log
marble hemlock
but i can hit one up just for the fun of it if you want, 40sec/8t?
this would be 40sec/8t sim with the build i suggested and 2scent/1fok trait
royal lantern
add cleave is not the same as aoe fights?
marble hemlock
running CT for comparison rn
the apl for hectic add cleave is closest to the gameplay-prio youre having with that build
nimble tartan
Its fine he did 8t 40 secs
marble hemlock
not sure which kind of fight you think might be better suited
since patchwerk stops spreading rupture at 5t on a 8t fight
thats not gonna be accurate
nimble tartan
I mean i think its kind of obvious that hidden blades would be the talent of choice in content where things die too fast
marble hemlock
slightly higher
with CT
but again, thats mostly due to the apl ramping up much slower than you do when you actually play it
since it does 4+ ruptures all the way
instead of quickly spreading 2-3cp ruptures to ramp up faster
lofty sand
wait, so even with your very specific traits, CT simmed higher??
marble hemlock
do you understand how APLs work?
the way you play is basically simmed correctly for the way the sims are done with CT
nimble tartan
Try 20 sec fight anyways 40 sec is around boss fight length right now
40-60
For m0
marble hemlock
ye
nimble tartan
Id be surprised if rn youre fighting big packs for 40 secs
marble hemlock
well, its gonna be in favor of HB due to the big hit
but you rarely start the fight with 20stacks, which the sim would do
marble hemlock
so thats gonna be skewed already
and im not gonna write a custom apl just to try to convince someone of the way im playing. i can only attest to my personal experience, obviously the mileage may vary depending on a bunch of different factors. one of them would be that the rupture-spread gameplay is actually quite exhausting
and easy to fuck up
cerulean whale
Is Darkmoon deck Fathoms good for assa?
livid bronze
You haven't provided proof that what your doing actually works better than CT.
cerulean whale
like is it worth the gold
nimble tartan
I think its a fine choice and probably the right one for m0 hb over ct tbh
But that stops once m+ rolls around
livid bronze
only if you are doing high M+ or progression raiding
hollow trail
@cerulean whale https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
marble hemlock
i mean, i can link a clip of me doing 25k+ dps on a pull with that build, sustained, but not sure thats gonna convince you either
royal lantern
if you wait til the next reset you get your fathoms for under 100k
on a high pop server
marble hemlock
especially since it doesnt say anything about how much dps i wouldve done with CT instead
royal lantern
the price is just dropping all the time
marble hemlock
ill be switching to CT once i get 25-30% crit and things will go a lot smoother
lofty sand
Some people say that Darkmoon deck is going to last a good while so it might be a good investment
livid bronze
logs would be fine if there's a log of HB and CT for the same pulls
lofty sand
I still haven't bought mine yet.
royal lantern
it sims better then some raid trinkets until they reach mythic lvl
livid bronze
Also, I'm not even 340 and I have 20% crit. 25% crit is not hard to get...
lofty sand
I got two very good trinkets so I dont feel like I need, but if you find it cheaper in your server I think its definitely worth it
versed finch
Just so random on the gear you get tho
royal lantern
341 and 19%crit, 32 with blightborn infusion
hollow trail
i bought individual cards and built a fathoms deck myself for ~97k yesterday @cerulean whale
versed finch
Haste is the hardest stat to come by. And it seems I need it most
calm stag
i dont understand the sim at all
royal lantern
@calm stag waths hard too understand? you did a simple quick sim
if you need stat weights etc, you need too chose that option
marble hemlock
that was a 40second fight on 8targets
lofty sand
oh lol
calm stag
ahh i see
prisma pond
His was an aoe burst fight lol
versed finch
Yeah
royal lantern
40k st dps, that guy is allready in the last raid tier!
marble hemlock
nah, were gonna hit 100k+ in last tier i think 😄
prisma pond
I'm sure by last raid well be well over 100k
calm stag
can i do it on the websites or is it through commands
royal lantern
~12k is for most people right now with good gear
marble hemlock
right below the field you copy/paste your /simc import into, you can change a bunch of options
royal lantern
5min dmg dummy fight
calm stag
@marble hemlock i dont have that field
hollow trail
raidbots thinks outlul can sustain 40k against 8 targets for 10 minutes. 🤔
calm stag
whats your general single target rotation btw guys?
hollow trail
40s sim against 8 is roughly equal to ST sim
marble hemlock
thats a sim im gonna try right now :p
lofty sand
I put up dots and I envenom as much as I can without letting my dots fall
thats my rotation
versed finch
Yep
hollow trail
@marble hemlock i dont really believe it.
Disclaimer, 8 targets for 10minutes guys. this it not ST
calm stag
vendette when possible
marble hemlock
well
calm stag
it doesnt get me 10k sustained tho
marble hemlock
seems fairly accurate
royal lantern
no way outlaw does 40k sustained
lofty sand
everything is basically used on CD. its not worth holding to most things now
nimble tartan
It doesnt tyran
hollow trail
8 targets for 10minutes guys. that it not ST
royal lantern
outlaws aoe is shit after everything is on cd, its only strong right now cus stuff die's too the burst
nimble tartan
Thats not true either
marble hemlock
@hollow trail still 40k for assa on that config
hollow trail
but like... you realize that spending combo points resets CD's right??? im very rarely waiting on CD's
marble hemlock
but it doesnt rupture more than it needs to, which is what I think might be the wrong choice for multi-scent builds
lofty sand
@calm stag it depends on your gear and the fight. Simulation uses patchwekr fights where you dont move. You just sit there and press buttons, that basically doesnt exist in wow anymore
prime stirrup
take your outlaw crap to the outlaw page
royal lantern
shit=low, i use that word too often
calm stag
@lofty sand i see, that explains a lot 😃
hollow trail
i play all specs skanksy, i go where i please
@marble hemlock i would be really interested to see an actual attempt with 8x targets for 10m. i want to see if sin/outlaw can actually do it
marble hemlock
assa definitely can, i have no doubt about that
lofty sand
its just a guideline, dont take it too literally. Unless you're simming 10k and you're doing 5k, then you should probably worry
marble hemlock
the issue right now is that mobs die before you actually get to the part where you can maintain the optimal DPS
versed finch
Yeah
Need full bleed durations
By the time I get all my shit rolling the mob pack is dead
hollow trail
its iffy
marble hemlock
still uses TB/vendetta for example
versed finch
St abilities lol
marble hemlock
and doesnt spread ruptures as much as it should
theres probably a breakpoint somewhere, depending on your stats/amount of scent traits, where you want to rupture even though youre capping energy
thats why in the multitarget sim for example, targets 2-4 have around 4.5-5k DTPS, whereas the later ones have 3.5-4k, since they dont get ruptured at all anymore
versed finch
Do u go for scent traits?
marble hemlock
yeah
im running 2scent/1FoB right now
not sure if its worth switching out the FoB for another scent though
im guessing eventually youll want 1SS+2Scent
or triple scent, depending on forti/tyra
royal lantern
we dont really know cus it will probably work when the expac is over
versed finch
Yeah ok
marble hemlock
so yeah, SS for singletarget rn, if they ever fix it not working correctly, and scent-stack for aoe
versed finch
Ok cool deal
Idk if I've seen many 340 azerite pieces with scent
I have all 3 that have SS, just waiting
versed finch
I'll have to check my studf
marble hemlock
and a 325 one
versed finch
I got the chest with dagger in the back tho
marble hemlock
but im not sure how fan of blades scales with AP/Hidden blades
weak pine
It doesn't matter what you have
versed finch
So that's nice for now
weak pine
Because the 355 from magni will be useful
marble hemlock
so 1fob/2scent might be better than 3scent for aoe
versed finch
Whys that jelo?
I remember looking at it but the traits weren't significant enough to remember
marble hemlock
for m+, esp highkeys, i expect the traits to be much more important than the ilvl
well, for the classes that actually have aoe traits that are very significant
cerulean whale
you guys don't want the shrouded in suffocation? i like it a lot
royal lantern
the dmg part doesnt work til the finaly bring out the fix
cerulean whale
the damage on shrouded doesn't work?
royal lantern
yep
cerulean whale
yikes good to know
lone junco
@marble hemlock I guess you gave up learning sub for the week?
lone junco
Just sounded like you fell back to sin m+ already.
marble hemlock
well
im pretty sure its gonna be better for overall dps
so unless our grp is struggling with infested
ill just play assa
lone junco
Our burst cleave has been plenty fine around me.
lone junco
So it's just a wang out fight for the trash
marble hemlock
well, it ownt be able to burst infested like sub
but since you just kite the mobs away anyway, it wont really matter
and the high sustained aoe might be necessary since were planning on doing +10 boosts week1
lone junco
Set up your ruptures and the peel off for st exang on the ccd infest before the other trash finishes dying?
marble hemlock
currently playing TB in dungeons since the ST is kinda lacking already, and going exsang makes it worse
lone junco
I can see the boost packs lasting a long time.
marble hemlock
well, we might just have to pull smaller, since the runs dont have to be in time, and doing like 3-4mobs at a time sucks hard for sub
lone junco
I only have one high scent.
lone junco
Finally a 2nd deadshot.
marble hemlock
im wondering how fan of blades scales with AP (if at all) and HB
probably no AP scaling at all, but its certainly nice QoL to have the 15y range fok
lone junco
Interesting to have the if distance check prior to cast.
Would add mob count to the HB tracker.
marble hemlock
well, it has to be prior to the cast
since you cant apply the range increase retroactively 😄
lone junco
2scent 1fok seems good.
marble hemlock
so it checks for available targets in 11y, if its 3+, itll increase to 15y
but im guessing the damage increase is flat
lone junco
Have you had an anchor drop on sap yet?
marble hemlock
and just gets slapped onto the fok after the damage calcs
havent really sapped anything
i heard squall is proccing on poly though
lone junco
Ah. I sap for the expeditions. Plan to sap for skips In m+
marble hemlock
might be different for melee, since it says attacks
and i dont think sap is tagged as an attack
lone junco
I do have pickpocket bound to sap.
Gimmme that loot. And I'll drop an anchor on you.
I'll verify next time. Just re sap humanoid over and over.
What are the weights for your dad build? Raw crit?
dense cedar
zenith oak
lul dadbuild
lone junco
I'm very dad. And can tab bleed with the goodest of them.
Def not "best of them". Went with a step down.
marble hemlock
what do you mean with dad build? 😄
chilly marsh
Azerite Shrouded Suffocation is still bis even with the nerf and no combo point stacking ?
marble hemlock
you mean the one im playing in dungeons/expeds rn?
lone junco
3x rupture.
chilly marsh
kind of a boring power to stack
marble hemlock
crit>vers>rest for aoe, crit>haste=vers for ST
lone junco
6t 40s
marble hemlock
well, youre gonna 6rupture
lone junco
What's what I expected.
marble hemlock
cause scent is op :<
dense cedar
👃 op
lone junco
Sure. But since the juice is in the fok. It's all crit verse
lone junco
And that's not even counting trinkets.
marble hemlock
pretty riduculous
lone junco
A nice use at 6x for another 2k would be cool
marble hemlock
but its alright, the fok-meme return is always refreshing
lone junco
That's my style. Dot you dot you dot you dot you. Trinket. FOK YOU ALL
It turns FOK into a glaives.
strange python
What trinket?
lone junco
I had a use condition one a few days ago. Pretty sure it was an agi buff.
Once I get daggers and 2x rupture I'll nail it down.
marble hemlock
playing DMC+RTB trinket right now
lone junco
There are crit and verse and agi ones. Plenty to work with.
Loa doll with fathoms for now.
marble hemlock
dont think agi trinkets are really worth in aoe since you get a shitton just from scent
so you mostly want secondary stat ones
lone junco
It really just depends on what i have at the time.
Apl is still angry with ss garrote.
It burns the 3rd subterfuge due to cp cap.
I really doubt the rupture at t=3 is worth more than the overcap + 3rd subterfuge.
Lol. Avg tb crit =20k. Wtf.
13k garrote crit tick avg.
I need daggers. Naow
Sin DPE is funny. 70k per garrote
royal halo
I dont see a lot of assassination rogues in queue. Is the spec falling behind the other two?
ebon bramble
yes
because stuff dies so fast during trash pulls
and mythics is all about the trash mobs
safe matrix
m0 is all about burst dps