assassination

[urban storm]

if there was no bonus dmg before

removing 11% of 0 doesnt actually affect it yet

[untold laurel]

So when I sim myself while talented CT and view the report I'm not seeing CT used in the report? Any reason why?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3mEZySxz77yTicyq2Z9vp8/simc

[gleaming geyser]

@untold laurel you dont use CT in ST

Envenom is still your dump

[untold laurel]

@gleaming geyser ahh thanks man

[fresh ginkgo]

Yikes i scrapped my mythic titanforged one cause it was crap

[coral meteor]

rip

F

[fresh ginkgo]

I wonder if i could get it back if i talked to a gm

[royal lantern]

you can get items back on the battlenet website

1 every 15days

[fresh ginkgo]

even if you scrap it?

i know you can if you sell it

[solemn turtle]

hey guys opinion on my mindset: outlaw for mythics + / assa for raids

[dense yarrow]

sin for all content pve and pvp

[gilded oasis]

If you scrap it, you can restore it as long as you have the scrapped materials to trade back as far as I am aware. unless it was changed

[brisk forge]

@solemn turtle to earlie to say

[solemn turtle]

well its brutally based that i love those 2 specs so I want to play both

and i feel thats the correct distribution

[brisk forge]

If you need to ask , just play w/e you like xD

[dense yarrow]

i cant get into outlow no matter how hard i tried 😦 idk i just dont feel it like i do sin and sub

[west frost]

Aw man I traded my electromental today

[valid junco]

the old damage was around 2k now its around 6k ? ...stil crap imo

if tooltip is correct its 4k

[solemn turtle]

outlaw is either you love it or you hate it

[silent night]

i lovei t but rtb is too rng, id rather play something consistent lmao

[shy mica]

u guys running CT mainly in M0?

[dense yarrow]

says jon, do you play with PB? :DDDD

[valid junco]

CT 4life , simmed only 300 dps lower with patchwerk style boss

so when aoe is needed we can just push button , and not rely on rng progs

[flat laurel]

Is it worth to generate 4cp and then dump envenom or always 5cp?

[silent night]

depends if garrote is up

or toxic blade if u use that

[shy mica]

do u even use CT on ST?

ifu specced it

for M0

[safe matrix]

finish on 4+

[flat laurel]

Garrote is up and toxic blade on cd

Alright, samething with rupture or always 5?

[dense yarrow]

same thing with any finisher

[silent night]

4+

[brisk forge]

CT on M0 isnt worth it

[dense yarrow]

why ancelm?

[brisk forge]

Mobs dies toooo quicky

[silent night]

yeah id rather just fan of knives and rupture all the targets i can find

[dense yarrow]

i see

but it will become usefull in M+

[flat laurel]

FoK + rupture/Garrote in aoe is sick

[lone junco]

@flat laurel env at 4 or 5.

[brisk forge]

But stil unsure how high keys it will start to be good at, but We'll have to see what talent turns out best 😏

[lone junco]

Early speculation is the rupture agi bonus. FOK Tab ruptures at 2cp+

With 3x garrotes and everything with rupture. Then FOK env.

With HB.

[dense yarrow]

hmm interesting

[lone junco]

Requires longer sustained packs. So we'll see how the balancing comes in for rupture

FOK Ct FOK Ct is too expensive. But the massive buff to agi and white from FOK is nice for white dmg.

Def not burst.

[dense yarrow]

unless lucky with PB

[lone junco]

HB trait.

Low cp rupture are shit for pb.

Anyway. This was a speculation build. Need to see pack duration extended to be worth a shit.

I'm outlaw for m+. But if you hate that. This exists.

[dense yarrow]

maybe ill have to stomach outlaw and live to love it

[lone junco]

It's nice in trash.

Blade flurry blade rush.

And more wep sources than daggers alone.

I got 340 weps for outlaw first day.

[dense yarrow]

That is true

I was lucky with 340 daggers in my 1st couple mythics

[lone junco]

Nice.

I 100pct plan to raid sin. Need to get caught up to the 12k st.

[dense yarrow]

I was thinking between sin and sub

[brisk forge]

Yeah behind aswell missed out first week of BFA so sin only for 10657 😜

[dense yarrow]

i sim 11.6k as sin and 12.4 as sub

but ofc ss dont work

whereas i got 2 bis traits for sub

[main blaze]

doesnt work?

[dense yarrow]

apart from the 3 cp, you dont get the dmg added

[main blaze]

oh they fixed that

[dense yarrow]

they say they fixed it but they didnt

[brisk forge]

Maybe it was intended 🤔

[dense yarrow]

hmm

[brisk forge]

Screw us all over 😀

[valid junco]

Tol Dagor as rogues we can open the jails before first boss to get AP and Stam buff. They stack with priest and war buffs also

one floor down before the boss actually

[safe matrix]

and second boss, you can let out all the adds before hand

to make the fight a lot easier

[sweet swallow]

yeah, makes it a lot easier

[zenith oak]

is this guilded loa figurine worth anything? or just sim it 😄

[strange python]

Could have simmed it in the time it took you to type that message

[zenith oak]

not really, but thanks for your help 😃

[dense yarrow]

you could of, use Gear Compare on raidbots

[cinder lotus]

So, do we really need to have x3 Shrounded Suffocation??

[strange python]

[dense yarrow]

thats the million dollar question @cinder lotus

[cinder lotus]

Lol

dont know what to do tbh

[dense yarrow]

apparently people been saying we'll find out tomorrow

[lofty sand]

wasnt the hotfix like yesterday?

plus sims are not very reliable right now

go with your gut

[dense yarrow]

well what we know right now is that SS does not provide the dmg increase so probably not worth to have 3x atm

[cinder lotus]

if theres a hotfix what we should have? Shrounded Suffocation, dagger in the back and what else?

[dense yarrow]

https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_assassination?data_view=azerite_traits&type=trait_stacking&tier=1&fight_style=patchwerk&lang=EN

[lofty sand]

They hotfixed the damage part

[cinder lotus]

according to that, then its gonna be Laser

[lofty sand]

and nerfed it

[dense yarrow]

thats what they said, but people reported that it still dont work

[cinder lotus]

Im so confused about this >.< guess we gotta wait.

[dense yarrow]

just sit on it for a while 😄

i run 2 dagger and a random one, thats because i dont have anything better

[cinder lotus]

Running dagger, Shrounded and blood rite

[strange python]

"Sims are not very reliable so go with ur gut"

Top tier tips

Right here

End me

Who is a good m+ assa rogue streamer ?

Or a good youtuber

[safe matrix]

Well m+ isn't out yet

[strange python]

Yes, i know

[hollow escarp]

there are not many sin rogues that stream/yt M+

[lofty sand]

Well what else can I say? The Sims are weird right now. There is no raid tier or anything to go with.

[sacred ore]

guys should the better dagger be on my main hand or off hand?

[cinder lotus]

doesnt matter

[lone junco]

@strange python if sin is competitive at the higher keys. Check this guy.

https://m.twitch.tv/incarnated/profile

He did +30 as sin in legion

[strange python]

Thanks @lone junco

[lone junco]

Else sub or what not. But it's a good stream.

[silver mango]

Does it matter which weapon has which enchant (using the 2 recommended) or are the proc rates normalized

[warm parcel]

Theyre just on a diff system. Doesnt matter

[weak pine]

I prefer the non-exang build btw

[versed finch]

So bis is still 3x shrouded suffocation even with the nerf?

[slender hare]

Probably not rn, since it’s still not fixed

[lone junco]

@weak pine where's that haste from?

[versed finch]

It said it was fixed

On the blue pages like 15 hours ago

[zenith oak]

multiple people have reported its still not working tho

since then

[versed finch]

Oh really?

Damn that sucks

[warm parcel]

None of the listed fixes are in

Likely they reverted the whole thing

[versed finch]

So still go with whatever is the next best trait u have?

[warm parcel]

P much

[versed finch]

Really irritating, I'm lucky enough to have all 3 pieces with SS and here I was thinking it was finally fixed

[lone junco]

I have 2. Looking forward to some 3x garrote subterfuge opens.

[winter dagger]

do shrouded suffocation stack now ?

[main rain]

It's apparently still bugged

[weak pine]

It's from Tempel last boss with few procs and lust

[warm parcel]

They always stacked

And every damage component in traits always will

Whole trait is just broken

[blissful crown]

Am i understanding something totaly wrong

i have fist 340

and dagger 310 in OH

shouldnt i be able to replace the 310 dagger with 340 fist?

Or did i misunderstand Infexious video

[main blaze]

Assassination needs two daggers

[blissful crown]

wow that i actually asked that

rofl

mutilate both daggers obv

[fiery haven]

anyone try using gale force enchant with a stats or just going 2 stat enchants on wep

[sacred ore]

guys should i focus on the traitstacking or the itemlevel in bloodmallet?

[warm parcel]

those show diff things

[sacred ore]

what are the difference :<

[valid junco]

Only azerite traits and trinket here 😄

[molten pike]

I like how the guide recommends a trait that doesn't work

:\

[royal lantern]

then...just take the 2nd best trait avaible too you?

[molten pike]

doesn't recover the time spent farming a useless one, oh well

[royal lantern]

its not ussules+you can switch traits

[safe matrix]

which trait doesnt work?

[molten pike]

shrouded suffocation

[safe matrix]

fixed

yesterday

[molten pike]

no it isn't

garrote does the same damage without it as with it

[safe matrix]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=286686/battle-for-azeroth-hotfixes-for-august-24th-azerite-powers-darkmoon-deck-squalls?webhook/battle-for-azeroth-hotfixes-for-august-24th-azerite-powers-darkmoon-deck-squalls

[molten pike]

check it on the dummy, that's what I did

[safe matrix]

Well the guide is mostly written for uldir

so it should be fixed by then

[molten pike]

ticks are 1750 with it and 1750 without

[safe matrix]

when it works its still very valuable

[molten pike]

lol at that patch note

nerfed the damage a bit in addition to not actually fixing it

bravo

[royal lantern]

´´use dagger in the back like everyone else!´´

[molten pike]

hmm

I wonder if the sim knows the updated value for tiny jar elemental

I got one of those yesterday and even with +10 ilvls it was behind my blues

[fiery haven]

i feel like maybe the go to spec could be re looked at too.

getting alot more dmg with master poisoner

[molten pike]

I've been using that myself

[fiery haven]

id be more willing to use planning if it just gave extra crit for more combo points

getting 11k on bosses when u keep bleeds up

[molten pike]

Sub has been strongest for me

[fiery haven]

sub is so ZZZZZZZZZZ

[dense yarrow]

the shorter the fight, better for sub

[molten pike]

That's kinda what sin feels like though, so much time doing nothing

[dense yarrow]

longer fights, sin is ahead

[molten pike]

WTB Energy

[lament dove]

I think shrouded suffocation works, it's just doesn't makes the tick bigger, it adds another tick

[molten pike]

the duration didn't increase

I was watching that too

[lament dove]

where does it say duration should increase?

it adds the said dmg to every tick

[molten pike]

except it doesnt because the ticks without it are the same as with it

[lament dove]

wat

[warm parcel]

@safe matrix the hotfix patch never arrived

no changes happened

[safe matrix]

oh

[molten pike]

well that would explain the being broken still thing

[safe matrix]

Whens it expected, tuesday?

[lament dove]

it says SS adds 570 dmg and it adds 570 dmg, what doesn't work...?

[warm parcel]

no clue

[main blaze]

It doesnt add the damage

[warm parcel]

ss doesnt do shit rn

[molten pike]

it adds combo points

[lament dove]

then what is that extra 570 dmg I see...?

[warm parcel]

yea cps have worked

[molten pike]

damage isn't being added to the skill

[warm parcel]

dmg hasnt

[lament dove]

I see the dmg on the dummy

what is that?

[molten pike]

I don't

[main blaze]

It isnt there for me

[molten pike]

I've got 3x pieces with it

1745 ticks with it and without

nothing changes

[lament dove]

it doesn't make the tick higher, it adds an extra tick

[warm parcel]

no

[lament dove]

it ticks 1745+570 or so

[warm parcel]

nop

[lament dove]

well then I'm hallucinating:D

[warm parcel]

It still simply does nothing for dmg

just adds cps

[molten pike]

which doesn't stack sadly

no 5 cp garrotes here

[lament dove]

ok it was deadly poison lol... seems everytime it procd when I used chest with SS and not otherwise...:D

[toxic hamlet]

Is SS still bugged, and can someone explain what exactly is bugged? 😄

oh

[random skiff]

yes , it doesnt add the damage part of the ability just the cp

[toxic hamlet]

it was literally just discussed above, sorry äbout that haha

[warm cove]

im simming pretty low dps right? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vtfmb4RoxYUBzLnbvJpvz8

[toxic hamlet]

So 1 SS and 2 Thunderous Blasts?

[random skiff]

your ilvl is also low

[toxic hamlet]

until fix

[warm cove]

yee i could use som daggers

[random skiff]

itll go up

[toxic hamlet]

wait, how do you do that sim?

[random skiff]

go to raid bots

[warm cove]

my weps drop my ilvl kind of alot

surprised i almost hit 10k with 226 weapons though

just tried assasination on a dummy for the lols

[toxic hamlet]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6zZBDrPd96EEPT45jxLwgB

also low I presume

[valid junco]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fujEqpNchkjbY3g9cY5kip

[warm cove]

better weapons > better gear https://gyazo.com/2ceb2064ab0b1b6a37f3d3342d765ef9

[toxic hamlet]

are Kingslayers really better?

[warm cove]

yes

i get kingsbane back

[toxic hamlet]

how

[warm cove]

does 3mil damage

jk no

they suck

[valid junco]

wtf testing with kingslayers now 😄

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4A9fqbB5z7DBT8W327TvWL

this is just stupid shit , with 192 ilvl kingslayers equipped i drop only 1k dps .... =DD

[warm cove]

heh

[valid junco]

130+ ilvls on weapons doesnt count for shit it means

[warm cove]

this means

i can play assasination if i really want

even without bfa daggers

[valid junco]

u can play assa with a spoon its seems

[warm cove]

yup

did u see my talents btw?

i had to use really weird ones

[safe matrix]

"Only 1k dps"

1k dps is a lot

[warm cove]

yes ofc, but looks like a small difference, compared to the ilvl difference on weapons

[safe matrix]

Weapons are only one of your slots

[valid junco]

130 ilvls ... its a really small drop in dps.. shitload on ilvl

[safe matrix]

How much did the overall ilvl drop though?

[valid junco]

from 339 to 322

[safe matrix]

A 5% drop in ilvl for a 10% drop in dps

[valid junco]

but weapon damage dropped from 151-252 to 42-70 =DD and only 1k dps drop

u can go white vendor shit and still beat 90% of random hc players

[autumn bloom]

Uhhh

[valid junco]

statweights are starting to shift from Haste > everything else

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5hHw5GdevACpL36wYKwA7Q

[cinder lotus]

Agility - Haste - Crit

[weak pine]

They'll change depending on your gear

As for me

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ntRbvXoJ9UknMzhReG1XoH

As you can see Haste>everything else

[dense yarrow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aZ36S6caPkag164mfQ1Yex

[weak pine]

Wait how am I 100 deeps above you?

My offhand alone should drop me by 200

[zenith oak]

EP vs MP maybe. idk

[weak pine]

Oh true that didn't notice

[cinder lotus]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6SzhuMH1ifyC1VBqa1Ccd

i thought master poisoner was better?

[weak pine]

For me it's 1% worse than EP

[cinder lotus]

i see

[weak pine]

If only I had a good offhand 😄

And maybe good trinkets

[cinder lotus]

i got the 2 daggers from tol dagor one is heroic tho

[weak pine]

It took me 100+ heroics to get 2 heroic level weapons

2 days later I got the bugged dagger from emissary

Another 2 days alter it's finally fixed

[cinder lotus]

damn

[weak pine]

Hoping for a good weapon on next week's m0 run

[cinder lotus]

100 heroics >.<

just farm the tol dagor ones

[weak pine]

Well I'm on my way to rank 21 neck

[cinder lotus]

gg

not bad

[weak pine]

363 ilvl neck btw 😃

[cinder lotus]

wow lol

im at rank 19

[weak pine]

Gotta get the rep buff from magni 😃

Also the dialogue on the last part is bugged

You get it like 8 times in chat

[zenith oak]

rep buff? wut?

[weak pine]

You get +15 neck levels for each level of rep with magni

up to +45 with revered

[zenith oak]

oh that, okay.

i thought you meant a buff that increased rep gains

[weak pine]

Well the mount speed increases rep gains by taking away time needed to travel

I'll get it in 10 hours

With next reset

[opaque grotto]

My sin spec finally matches my sub spec on ST encounters

Weeeeee

[main blaze]

nice

[nimble tartan]

yay we're big sin boys! https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gdwozLyepZDHbvv3xwTZ5M

tfw those traits still dont work feelsbad

[opaque grotto]

Didn’t they fix SS?

[abstract crescent]

Wait bread

You saying sin is good

[main blaze]

"fix" meaning they didnt do anything

[opaque grotto]

I haven’t had any problems with sin actually

[nimble tartan]

is it supposed to give u more cp as well the shrouded suff

[weak pine]

Is that a p2w dagger I see?

[sacred ore]

@nimble tartan why didnt u choose hectic/ad cleave

for simming

[nimble tartan]

why would i choose that..

[sacred ore]

cuz dungeons

[weak pine]

Raid are life

[nimble tartan]

oh im not gonna play this spec in dungeons!

[opaque grotto]

Wait the hotfixes say SS gives additional dmg

[sacred ore]

raid after a week or so :<

[opaque grotto]

Is it still not?

[weak pine]

?

[main blaze]

It was not fixed

[opaque grotto]

BLISSARD

The patch notes LIED?

[weak pine]

It was fixed and nerfed at the same time

was it not?

[opaque grotto]

Yeah the hotfixes say it was fixed

[main blaze]

"Fixed" as in the fix didnt work or the hotfix wasnt implemented

[opaque grotto]

Then nerfed by 11% or something

[weak pine]

lol

[oblique python]

still the best azerite trait iirc

[weak pine]

so basically they just gut the ability and forgot the fix?

Yea the bonus combo points are amazing

[opaque grotto]

3 CP garrote feels good either way

[main blaze]

well considering that it gave 0 damage -11% nerf to 0 is still 0

[oblique python]

the bonus CB werent supposed to stack

[sacred ore]

@nimble tartan you have the premium raidbots? 😮

[nimble tartan]

i do have the premium

[sacred ore]

is raidbots one time pay?

[oblique python]

only damage buff stacks

[nimble tartan]

it is not

but u can pay for 1 month

[sacred ore]

can i sim all my gear if i get premium?

[nimble tartan]

depends on what tier you get

[nimble tartan]

there are multiple tiers that give u higher priority in the line and more iterations

[main blaze]

We know. It wasnt fixed @opaque grotto

[grim mason]

Hi guys, anyone have a link to Bis other than the one on Icy-viens?

[sacred ore]

how many iteration does it give u in premium version? :<

[main blaze]

Depends on the tier you pay for

[oblique python]

@main blaze how do we know it wasnt fixed ?

[main blaze]

Try it

It doesnt add damage

[random skiff]

test it on target dummy

[sacred ore]

if i pay for max amount? :<

[oblique python]

arf , ok :/

how can they have issues fixing a stupid buff

like that

[weak pine]

Don'y mention icy veins please

[oblique python]

Blizz dev never fail to amaze me

[random skiff]

why did they nerf something that doesnt work

[main blaze]

More than likely Wazzi is that they just didnt even put that hotfix in

[oblique python]

That too x)

[grim mason]

any BiS links?

[opaque grotto]

They probably had it working on their end and decided it needed nerfing

[sacred ore]

guys the first weeks during launch everything is hell, wait till raid

[oblique python]

Nothing we can do but wait indeed

or pex an alt :p

[cinder lotus]

why? @weak pine the bis looks pretty solid

[weak pine]

Last time I was there their guides were totally garbo and out of date

Was during legion tho

[cinder lotus]

check it

i like it

[weak pine]

Alright can you link?

[cinder lotus]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[grim mason]

is there best in slot gear listing good though @cinder lotus ?

[cinder lotus]

Yes

"Gear and Best in Slot: find the best gear you can wear;" tab

[grim mason]

thanks

[cinder lotus]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-gear-best-in-slot

[supple hearth]

the rogue icy veins guide is made by greyhound who is a community figure of Ravenholdt so if there's anything that needs to be updated u can always let him know

[weak pine]

Cool

[abstract crescent]

wait so sin just got nerfed??

[supple hearth]

no?

where do u see that at

[cinder lotus]

im still wondering what should we do with the azerite trait lol

[supple hearth]

the only recent nerf was to a specific trait

the spec overall was untouched

[zenith oak]

technically wasnt even nerfed cause it still doesnt work

[cinder lotus]

2x Shrouded or 3?

[keen haven]

I know BiS lists are like w/e but why hasn't any of the azerite pieces chosen on icy-veins got SS

[cinder lotus]

I wonder the same man

i got only the helm from Freehold according to the guide

gave me Dagger and Overwhelming power

[weak pine]

Right now I go by ilvl and after that I look at stats

Except trinkets

[sharp pond]

Item level until I’m satisfied, then I work on my stats

[weak pine]

My neck is the only reason I'm in the 340+ club

I got 2 levels from this week's m0s

[sharp pond]

🤔

Maybe tomorrow I’ll be able to get invites to those

[grim mason]

what's your neck at @weak pine ?

I need to find a group farming heroics ,

[weak pine]

363

@grim mason

[grim mason]

how did you go about farming AP?

@weak pine

[weak pine]

I did 100 heroics pre-nerf

I do all daily WQs apart form pet battles and supplies

[abstract crescent]

what do you mean the trait doesn't work

[cinder lotus]

100 heroics SMH

[grim mason]

100 huh

pre nerf?

[weak pine]

They nerf'd the random heroic reward form 150 to 50

[grim mason]

damn

1st week?

[weak pine]

So instead of 300 it gives now 200

Also I actively do my missions

[abstract crescent]

didn't you guys talk about a talent

[cinder lotus]

random H gives 150

[weak pine]

The first one gives 150

The ones after that give 50

[cinder lotus]

ah yea

[weak pine]

It was so worth it

Now if you wanna get lots of azerite do expeditions

[cinder lotus]

did u check icy?

yeah farming expe

[weak pine]

With good team you can get 5 an hour

[plush oasis]

Did shrouded suffocation drop in priority with the recent nerf?

[abstract crescent]

what do ya'll run as pvp talents

[weak pine]

Not rly, since it still deals 0 bonus dmg

[abstract crescent]

feel like system shock and creeping venom blow atm

[weak pine]

System Shock and Creeping Venom

[abstract crescent]

deadly brew aswell I imagine?

[cinder lotus]

i choosed smoke

[abstract crescent]

system shock feels meh

[weak pine]

3k free dmg for envenoms

Not complaining

Also helps with walking the mobs to refresh system creeping venom

[mighty island]

i always run deadly/creeping, and I keep the last one as situational as possible. honor among thieves is a good catch-all

sys-shock growing on me though. t

[winter gale]

uys what do u tnink, will assa be way to go for 1st raid? My friend told me its last out of 3 specs atm but I want to play it since its my favourite

Guys*

[weak pine]

Many say Sub is the best and everything else is irrelevant but that's not the case

For starters play the one you are most comfortable with as that helps you push higher numbers

[vapid moth]

As always unless you're world first it really doesnt matter as long as your dps is good

[weak pine]

Sin doesn't punish you for not hitting the boss constantly due to bleeds, allowing you to do mechanics without severe DPS loss

[royal lantern]

outlaw will probably the last for raids anyway

as long as the spec is based around a rng mechanic it will never be the best thing too go

[minor prawn]

seems like sub has often been strong right out the door but always seems to fall behind as soon as assassination and outlaw start to get right stat allocation, then again sub comes back almost always as a high dps in all raid mythic gear

im going to stay mut as usual for the long haul and i havnt had it not pay off yet

[plush oasis]

I've always preferred assn because the other two specs punish severely when you're away doing mechanics.

However, the spec is painful so far in dungeons.

[minor prawn]

really?

i almost always do a min of 10k just applying garrote 4 times and rupture all

not amazing but does some work

[abstract crescent]

i got a main hand dagger but no off hand... can't use mutilate lol

[main blaze]

time to get one of those fancy 300 ilvl daggers I see everyone using

[echo cargo]

Sin is great in dungeons O_o

[abstract crescent]

where do I get them

i'm level 113

[main blaze]

From the specialized dagger vendor in Orgrimmar

The building called "Auction House" or something like that

[waxen night]

[grim mason]

lol

why arent you using your artifact until replaced by questing daggers?

[plush oasis]

I've been doing fine in dungeons, probably just whiplash from our performance in legion. Can typically sustain 15k+ in packs of 4 by just subt garrote, ct, and rupturing everything.

Just wondering if the other specs are having an easier time of it.

Plus that only happens if the things take longer than 10 seconds to die.

[abstract crescent]

so

i gotta speak to vorik but he's not appearing even after a relog

[versed finch]

@plush oasis so you just use CT always instead of poison bomb?

[royal lantern]

3x garrote on pull, 3x rupture, use garrote on cd, spam CT with 4+ combo points

thats how i do it

[desert vault]

Did Aethys Rotation change to HeroRotation?

[plush oasis]

@versed finch Yes I'm speccing CT for mythic dungeons. A hidden benefit to it is that it seems to have a high chance to proc your poisons. I've noticed it takes a bit to get poisons on the target.

Though I wouldn't say spam CT. I only reapply when the CT dot is going to drop.

[versed finch]

Ok, I've just been garroting everything, foking to 1 or 2 combo points, rupturing everything, then foking to envenom 1 by 1

But instead garrote everything, ct, fok to rupture then fok envenom for remainder?

[plush oasis]

That's about what I do, yes.

[versed finch]

I'll try it out. That's the only change in talents? EP vigor, I use iron wire for silence, toxic blade and ct?

[plush oasis]

And subterfuge of course. Yeah that's what I've been running with.

[versed finch]

Yeah subt of course

I'm gonna give it a go. Seems like a lot of bosses have adds anyways

[plush oasis]

Good luck!

[versed finch]

Thanks a bunch

[strange python]

Do we have the info on what are the BiS items for Assassinatio rogue pre raid ?

[royal lantern]

weapons with high weapon dmg and haste/crit gear

there is no real bis with titanforge

[strange python]

hmmm ok

[cinder lotus]

You can check https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-gear-best-in-slot

the only weapons that give haste/crit are from Told Dagor

[autumn bloom]

Easy to get in toldagor as a rogue too

Lockpicking ayyy

[severe tundra]

what talents do you guys prefer for your mythics

[hazy iron]

2213223

[tight nimbus]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[tough lantern]

2210031 or 2210033 is my pref

[tight nimbus]

Prey on the weak is always good

[glossy rapids]

assassination pve spec or nah?

[raven spire]

best pvp talents for pve?

[cinder lotus]

i ran with system shock and creeping venom

[violet sonnet]

How much better would CT be over Poison Bomb in mythics

I haven't really been running it so i've been wondering.

[opaque grotto]

I say it really depends on your group

if you need more aoe dmg then go CT

otherwise PB is probably fine

[opaque tree]

@royal lantern actually that's not entirely true... main hand weapon highest weapon damage is best... but for offhand it depends

I had a 340 mainhand and got a 335 offhand, but my 315 with a socket (haste /crit) dagger simmed higher in the offhand

[elfin raft]

i havent really look at sub rotation, is the aoe rotation easier than assasss? (im talking like reg mythic)

and when i see easy just less buttons I guess

lol

[violet sonnet]

Assas I feel would be way easier for aoe

It's literally keep your bleeds up on as many as targets, (Including CT if you talent it instead of PB)

[elfin raft]

Can someone give me a succinct difference between "triple target" and "single target w/ adds" is the latter just not bothering with rupture and garrote? The ads have little HP? Ads come in 1 by 1? If there's no good answer, it's fine I guess I can go look at the breakdown in the html raidbots thing, right?

or rather what explains such the huge DPS difference, the ads are alive half the time or something? (for the former) so not much aforementioned dots

[gleaming geyser]

@elfin raft have you done legion content at all? If so, triple target would be like heroic botanist & single target w/ adds would be like Antoran High Command ish adds

[elfin raft]

Nope, when I was playing we had A patchwerk sim on excel

wotlk I believe

yeah i have no idea what that means

[gleaming geyser]

Ok, triple target is triple boss

Single target with adds is Single Boss with intermitent adds give or take every 45 seconds

with low to medium health pools, usually aoe cleaved fast

[elfin raft]

ah

ok yeah that makes sense with the huge dps difference then, not much energy regen and dot dmg

[gleaming geyser]

yea, TT you can have the same uptime on rupture and garrote on all 3 targets

except on opener, of course

[elfin raft]

alright that was a great explanation, thanks

[weak oak]

all my addon's disappeared, how to i get simc again?

ah

nm

[autumn bloom]

in the future you dont need to ask a question in every channel

[restive otter]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[weak oak]

another question. With simc, for stats to scale; im doing agility, crit, haste,mastery and vers. right?

[royal lantern]

do a stat weight sim and check for yourself

its different for everybody

[versed finch]

if you're spec'd into CT do you guys ever use it on single target, like a boss fight?

or just omit that on ST

and follow the normal priority rotation

[zenith oak]

i dont use it, but i havent tried either

the bleed doesnt give energy back and envenom is better

so id ont see a reason to

[versed finch]

ok so normal on ST boss, and only use it on 2+ aoe

?

or 3+

[zenith oak]

probably 3+

i'd guess that double rupture/garrote on 2 targets with envenoms in between is much better

[unkempt gulch]

what are your guys ST sims dps looking like

[weak needle]

im curious on sins dps

[opaque grotto]

I sim at like 12.1k @unkempt gulch 342 ilvl

[unkempt gulch]

ty

[prime stirrup]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/g4Q5oxuVn1uPCQEHxSURvK blue off hand

[night cypress]

hey is ss still broken? i'm testing on dummies rn

[safe matrix]

Yeah hotfix hasn't been pushed yet

[night cypress]

ah

muy bien

[alpine lodge]

hi is there a place i can go to find out which spec is currently simming the best?

[civic palm]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/

[alpine lodge]

ty

[silk jolt]

guys i really fucking need a new dagger

where should i farm?

[civic palm]

If you need one badly, the AH?

[silk jolt]

nah need something to do today

tol dagor is like 0.4%? wtf

is there anywhere that has a reasonable drop % chance

[civic palm]

Shrine as one.

Crit/Vers

Daggers all over the palce.

[fierce thicket]

@silk jolt that counts the "droprate" for everyone, it's a much higher droprate than 0.4%

[civic palm]

Yarp.

[silk jolt]

fine, i see

[fierce thicket]

I've only played Outlaw so far for mythic dungeons. Are Assass/Sub comparable for burst AoE, or is Outlaw just way better at that? Im considering buying a ilvl350 dagger to learn dagger specs before raids, but I don't want to be gimping myself for dungeon DPS

[silk jolt]

sub > outlaw > assassination in order of fight length aoe performance

[fierce thicket]

so sub has bigger short fight AoE, but Assassination on like a cleave boss fight in your example?

[silk jolt]

dots always win over a longer timeframe

[civic palm]

SUB is better on burst cleave/AoE

[silk jolt]

outlaw is sustained aoe

[civic palm]

SIN wins when the mob lives the duration of CT.

[silk jolt]

and sub has burst windows

[fierce thicket]

thanks!

[untold fox]

Is it possible to get daggers from wq? All time i have outlaw weapons as a reward :<

[jagged prawn]

yes

[onyx falcon]

Yes... go to EU servers, they got tons

[prisma gull]

I wish eu would get as many weapons as i see RH say we do. My 331 shaman is still rocking a 273 dagger lol

[nimble tartan]

tfw 13k in 2 specs but sin im a small boy https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/56aEB5DcCxHQ6V4ZfvYTKJ

[hollow escarp]

similar for me... 11.1k sin, 11.4k sub and 11.6k outlaw. probably because I still have a blue dagger and my outlaw weapons are 340 and 345 😦

[blissful crown]

tbh then i think assa will come out just fine for raiding.

It all comes down to what you like

Some will say sub is better some will say assa is better and some will say outlaw is better.

Personaly i think i'm gonna have azorite gear for both assa/sub so i can switch compared to fights

[weak pine]

I've only ever seen 1 dagger reward and that was the emissary

Mostly swords with few first weapons tho both of them are rare as well

[winter dagger]

Here's my sim

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hfAgRbcgQGbyUbw6Zf48h

tbh i've been playing assa since prepatch

been sub main before, this spec is like wet noodle all the leveling progress in bfa and gearing up, but with gear it feels so right

so u guys dont have to worry about assa, it's fine spec atm

i also noticed that gear can be full epic but if weapons are shit it will always result in bad dps. So whenever u feel weaker look at weapon first

[weak pine]

Switching from 325 to 340 weapons is 200 dps increase with just the base damage, not counting for main or secondary stats

[chrome stag]

is there any sheet how much ilvl is worth over tier 1 azerite power talents?

[strange python]

Ye its called sim

[sacred ore]

guys should i stack shrouded suffocation?

[strange python]

[chrome stag]

is it worth equipping 325 with worse traits than 305 with better?

[lofty junco]

have someone tested if that SS "fix" is live and worked?

[weak pine]

That would require manual labour

[slate agate]

Do you guys think Assa will have it's time to shine in Uldir? Sub just seems to be superior..

[royal lantern]

sub does a bit more st dmg?

why the fuck do people talk like sub is pulling 28k dps and sin 4k max?

[blissful crown]

^^ This. Sub aint superior to assa, no where near if u ask me.

It depends on fights, and it have always been like that.

[royal lantern]

and dont forget that there is a balance patch comming with uldir

[lofty junco]

i hope for a sub, affli, arcan amge and retri nerf xD

[royal lantern]

they will probably turn down the sub aoe a bit

[weak pine]

retri nerf? o.o

[vestal wren]

i dont expect sub nerfs

[sand whale]

why hope for nerfs

hope for buffs all round

cept rets they can get nerfed

[ionic hemlock]

I simmed sub today for fun, and its like 100 more dps roughly that my sin w/ same gear lol are the spec's usually close like that?

[vestal wren]

it comes down to gear

[ionic hemlock]

I am aware haste is good for all specs but currently thats my worst stat, so maybe thats the difference usually not a min/maxer but maybe I outta run sub until I get better gear at least

oh and no sub traits unless raidbots doesn't sim traits?

[vestal wren]

it does

[ionic hemlock]

10,259 DPS sub no traits and 10,090 DPS with traits

It's interesting -- doesn't bother me none I like all 3 specs though I definitely lean towards sin more, hah

[strange python]

How can I go about figuring out if the nerf to SS effects it's ranking in our trait list?

[urban storm]

its a bit less than an 11% nerf overall

because the whole trait would include hte CPs

im not going to pretend to have any idea how those are weighted though lol

[tropic osprey]

I just tested abit on SS, it seems to me, that if i spec out of Subterfuge and into Master Assassin, i gain the bonus dmg from SS

[urban storm]

that would suggest something like a cap

on bonus dmg for a skill? (guessing)

subt is still vastly superior though, i'd imagine

especially if there are targets for hte extra garrotes

[tropic osprey]

ye, its just that blizzard think they fixed it, because they proberbly did, and its a bug with subterfuge maybe

[urban storm]

MA is so awkward because it could potentially provide zero benefit

[strange python]

Definitelty better in dungeons than raids

[urban storm]

but subt lets you get 3 awesome garrotes out in dungeons lol

things die pretty quickly regardless, i guess

thatll change once M+ opens

especially if they fix the trait

[strange python]

mhmm I imagine subt will stay best unless major changes get pushed

[lapis falcon]

hows the assassination atm guys ?

[urban storm]

its fine

[strange python]

very strong, like every rogue spec

Oh according to the TC channel the hotfixes arent live yet anywaya so

[lofty junco]

i jsut hope for sub nerf so that i don't need to play it alter xD

[lofty junco]

*later

[main blaze]

I don't get the bonus with MA

[lofty junco]

30% more dmg for weapon posion for example

[kindred flame]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[kindred flame]

Hello, i have test all the recommended WA, but none have what i need. Any 1 using something different than those? Basically i need bar tracker for buffs (Envenom/Trinket/EP if speced/Racial) to be on top of my char. Buff's icon between my char and target that show how much time left before available. Similar to buff for debuffs on target to track Garrote/Rupture, but to be bars not icons with timer in them

[dire spoke]

did you search wago manually?

[severe niche]

Make your own?

https://www.wowhead.com/weakauras-addon-guide learn how if you dont? Easiest way to get what you want

[lone junco]

@kindred flame bars are easy to make Just use a bar style you like. Duplicate it and change the aura.

Mizerok wa are good. I just delete the cps and energy section from the middle.

[kindred flame]

Well i found Lokkek to be best suitable for me atm, might dig deeper and after leeching for years to make my own. Dunno what happened with my UI i thought i saved when i stop playing in Legion

[lone junco]

I took an ep bar and turned it Into feint. And shoulder and tb. And Kb. And env.

That way you just steal parts you like.

[kindred flame]

So take single bar and then make it into another buff/debuffs, well yea make sense 😃

[lone junco]

There is a button to show icon. I recommend that. Else you just have bars all Willy nilly.

Simple Bars won't show pandemic time.

So I recommend using mizerok.

[sacred ore]

should i turn on the bleeding buff in raidbots only? and turn off all other buffs?

and is shourded suffocation still bugged?

[lone junco]

What?

[lofty junco]

had someone tested the "fixxed" SS?

[main blaze]

as of earlier this morning its not fixed

[sacred ore]

ah alright

what is the bug tho?

[lofty junco]

ya had that asked the last days many times....

[pure jackal]

is bleed rogue trolling in this xpac

[novel moss]

So just want clarification; The Agi DMF trinket even with nerfs its not going to be worse until you get a 390/400ilevel trinket

So defo worth buying

[dapper moat]

was there a list with bis trinkets for sin here at somewhere, checked the pins but could not find

[novel moss]

Yeah I am looking at that now...

Just wanted clarification, no need to be a prick?

[north terrace]

There are 2 websites listed that give sims for trinkets in the pins

[kindred flame]

Yes, the list is up to date

[north terrace]

Herodamage and bloodmallet

[novel moss]

Thanks so is up to date 😃 great ill go buy it

[kindred flame]

You can assume if nothing change for the moment, fathoms is BiS

That dosen't mean tomorrow something wont happen tho, for this specific moment it is BiS

[dapper moat]

uuh darkmoon so hot right now

[cinder lotus]

Fathoms gonna stay bis untill raid i think

[vestal wren]

yes unless blizz nerfs it

[novel moss]

Well looking at charts its bis until you get a forged mythic trinket so well worth it, hopefully blizz just leaves it be

[cinder lotus]

i have the one that drops in Shrine 345 but it suck when u pop it up and the tank move the boss

so im sticking with the fathoms and the motherlord one

[ebon bramble]

its already been nerfed once

i doubt they'll nerf it again

[ancient notch]

How is asass scaling into mythics DPS wise

[thorny bone]

how did they come about figuring out SS needed a nerf if it was doing no damage in the first place

[abstract crescent]

Lmao

True

Is master poisonner wven worth running

[dapper plover]

i just simmed

for me its 0.9% worse then elaborate planning

so choose whatever

[abstract crescent]

mhmm

kinda makes no sense a talent based off increasing poison effectiveness is weaker XD

it's permanent while you need constant finishing moves to apply the 10% damage for 4 seconds

[royal lantern]

MP is only your weapon poisons, EP is everything, thats the difference

[dapper plover]

and it gives you a slow

[royal lantern]

but its a bit hard too keep a good uptime with EP right now cus of the low crit

[dapper plover]

its better in pvp maybe

[lament dove]

I use it so I don't stress myself on EP uptime^^

[flat laurel]

Quick navigation or Deadly Navigation?

[royal lantern]

both

[flat laurel]

Was thinking about that, do they procc often?

[onyx falcon]

mine is Deadly Main/Quick Off, sims higher

[drifting orbit]

is there any info on what perk on the Engineering Goggles is the best?

[wraith mesa]

sup all

i'm curious, i want to know for you talent tier 15 and 90... which one you think is better and why ?

[zenith oak]

subterfudge by far is best

oh, wrong tier. nvm

[steady pasture]

i read that the enchants recommended per character are based off of your highest weighted weapon stats. when simming for the weights, is the higher number the highest weighted, or the lowest number the highest weighted? sorry if this is a dumb question, just want to make 100 percent sure im reading raidbots correctly

[gleaming geyser]

Highest number means you get the most dps per point of that stat

So if your crit is higher than haste, you would go with deadly navigation

[steady pasture]

okay that helps out a ton. thank you!

[wraith mesa]

pexa, if your haste is higher you would go with which one

nvm

miss read srry lol

[oblique python]

Did they say something about the azerite trait fix that fixed nothing :S ?

[vestal wren]

i dont want to destroy your fun but iirc there was a note that some of the fixes get applied after server restart

[zenith oak]

i think its more that the hotfixes just having been pushed to live yet ?

ya, that

[vestal wren]

but feel free to continue meming 😃

[noble timber]

2x deadshot or 1x deadshot + dagger in the back.

[nimble tartan]

Wrong channel!!

[noble timber]

Oh sry

[slender hare]

Still don’t get how they decided to nerf SS, when the damage was never even working

[royal lantern]

´´tinfoil hat on´´ they want us all too play memelaw because its new and flashy!!!!

[slender hare]

Pls no

[narrow abyss]

for weapon enchant

if CritRating=1.34, HasteRating=1.36
means ill should put quick navigation on mainhand and deadly on offhand?

pins just says that i should put two of the highest weighted stats/enchants but not to put it on which weap

[strange python]

the hand doesnt matter

[red pawn]

hi lads, can someone explain to me why it is beneficial to have multiple shrouded suffocation (garrote) traits since the combo point part doesn't stack?

[narrow abyss]

i saw some said that they sim abit higher with different combination

[stuck hare]

is assa looking decent for uldir?

[dapper plover]

@narrow abyss attack speed mate

[red pawn]

cause atm it seems to me like it would be better to run 1x shrouded suffocation for the combo points and then 2x damage trait like dagger in back, Twist the knife, thunderous blast and so on

[vapid moth]

Is dagger in the back still counter productive in groups?

[hazy pebble]

blindside vs master poisoner

what do you guys choose?

[hybrid chasm]

EP 😉

[zenith oak]

there are cases were MP is better but yea. best bet is to sim your options

EP is significantly better for me

[uneven summit]

17,15 % haste, life´s good

[weak pine]

I'm still at 11.4%

[quaint echo]

so much vers gear

[weak pine]

I only got 0.76% vers

[flat nexus]

Whats bis for ass rogue?

[weak trench]

wdym whats bis

[flat nexus]

Best in slot

[main blaze]

🇧 ℹ 🇸

[mighty island]

I agree on EP. I dont like blindside.

except maybe if im pvping and i know executing kills will be a challenge. Very situational.

[safe matrix]

Best in slot lists are near impossibble to make because titanforging is a thing

Simming your gear combinations on raidbots is probably the easiest/most accurate way to gear

[gleaming geyser]

Blindside + Venom Rush anti-synergy

[flat nexus]

But does this sim sitesccalculate traits of azerite armor

[safe matrix]

yes

it takes everything into account

unlike something like lets say pawn which only takes stats

[thorn crater]

when someone said above SS nerf

were they talking about shadow or sinister?

[safe matrix]

shrouded suffocatio

trait

for sin

[flat nexus]

Can u give me the sim link

[thorn crater]

@safe matrix ehm nerfed how? like more than the improper working?

[safe matrix]

11%

[thorn crater]

is there a place i can read about it

[safe matrix]

#wowheadnews

[thorn crater]

still remains best trait though right

herodamage is updated?

[north terrace]

Gotta love the nerfs when assassination wasn't even the strongest rogue spec lol

At least they fixed the trait though!

[thorn crater]

ok so supposedly they fixed the non increasing so that is balancing the nerf out somehow or?

[safe matrix]

hotfix hasnt been pushed yet iirc

[thorn crater]

and ditb was nerfed too

so basically no good alternative other than the nerfed shrouded trait

[north terrace]

Well the hotfix also made it so a bunch of quests that weren't properly giving rep are now, and that is working already, so... are we sure they haven't pushed it?

[thorn crater]

meh guess i have to raid in outlul or sub

shame

[hazy iron]

Are you pushing with world first groups?

If not then no, play what you want

[thorn crater]

i had quit the game in teh middle of nighthold mythic and now i am in a guild with 2-3 other rogues as a recruit

kinda need to get a slot first

so i need to know which is the better spec

[kindred flame]

If you wanna get "higher" numbers well combat seems to be the way

The raid atm look's like lot of adds are going on

On other side with Garrote and possible SS fix i think we will be fine depending on how often adds actually come

[thorn crater]

ye we only have the one vanish

but sub with shuriken storm and FW should be fine too tbh

more than that

cause of boss tunneling

[kindred flame]

Well CT could be a thing on some of the fights with High HP adds

[thorn crater]

PB seems so bad rn tbh

cant find a reason to run it

[kindred flame]

It is defo a better choice rn

[thorn crater]

mb if it scales with higher stats it gets better in the expansion sure

but scent trait with the fok talent seems strong

if its not a ST fight

[slender hare]

What, Hidden Blades is so bad

[thorn crater]

works quite well in M

much better than the other 2

one doesnt last long enough the other is too random

[slender hare]

but in sustained aoe its really bad

compared to CT

[thorn crater]

have we seen any sustained aoe content yet?

dno the uldir raid but if its just adds spawning in bosses and not council type boss

ill run HB over CT

[crimson isle]

Ct is better in m0 atm

[thorn crater]

in theory with perfect usage sure

can u make sure it always expires as mobs die

i dont

im too bad to do that

prefer the certain thing

😛

[crimson isle]

I have been boosting m0 with frost mage/DH and CT still pulling better numbers for me so .. yeah play what you want.

[opaque tree]

guys when does this new hotfix go live for SS? Can anyone confirm it's working?

[gleaming geyser]

It is not working, most likely on Tuesday reset

[opaque tree]

i also got a Mythic Tiny Electromental in a Jar this week

and it's being buffed by 233%... wow, this might sim really high

unless that's already hotfixed : \

[zenith oak]

i believe the hotfixees arent on live servers but did get pushed to simcraft

i might be wrong tho

[opaque tree]

not sure, I did sim it, but it sims kind of low so that's a bummer if it did

[strange python]

pvp...deadly or venomous?

[primal lance]

Ask pvp

[cobalt meadow]

depends on the comp

[supple hearth]

Venomous isn't even a thing btw lol

[pastel wasp]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[zenith oak]

can anyone tell me what the above weak auras are?

[tough topaz]

Click them?

[onyx falcon]

they show you stuff on your screen about your skills 😃

[brazen tiger]

they are peaks at the weak aura set up some people use and help them with stack timing on abilities as well as seeing with bigger icons when cds are up

its actually really nice, i just tried mizerok's and i love it

[zenith oak]

lol, thanks guys. i got it

[dense cedar]

CT is pretty good feelin' to use

[elfin raft]

eh not sure what to do with my WA, i took afenars and added what I used to have back in the day (bars--https://imgur.com/a/UCaZAH4) I cant stand just using the icons, the bar model is so ingrained into my mind

so im rocking pretty ghetto atm

afenar made his look so sexy though, so I kind of like it but it kind of seems too much

[dense cedar]

Need blizz to patch in CT interaction with Venomous Wounds

too imba tho qq

[lone junco]

For sure The fok e return on Ct would be nice.

[elfin raft]

oh wow i didnt even know jeez

[dense cedar]

@lone junco i'm p sure there;d be no dowtime on envenoms at all

machine guns thsoe out with that buff

[elfin raft]

are the sims accounting for this bug? (I ask because I'm wondering how up to date they keep the sims, raid bots in particular)

[dense cedar]

alas too good so won't ever be a thing

[elfin raft]

seems like they do if thats what the result would look like, damn

[dense cedar]

i didn't realise how much i missed Legion assassin apm

[fleet whale]

it's not much lower

[lone junco]

Legion sin was bis.

[fleet whale]

but I do miss legion sin

especially t21

[zenith oak]

isnt it basically the same we're just missing kingsfall? and we have lower energy regen

[elfin raft]

where do i go for BiS PR gear?

[fleet whale]

I loved kingsbane

[zenith oak]

kingsbane* 😄

[fleet whale]

and we are also missing the mutilate crit chance trait

[lone junco]

Nah. It was the high mut crit imo

Ye.

[fleet whale]

that really smoothed things out

[lone junco]

75% crit

[fleet whale]

and urge the kill is only half as strong

vendetta now 2 mins

[lone junco]

Made for some nice clips.

45sec exsang. Vendetta alignment

[dense cedar]

I miss Vendetta cd reduction so much 😢

[cinder lotus]

we all do...

[twin tartan]

atleast vendetta now lines up with blood fury 😄

[fleet whale]

it's strange cause vendetta was always a 2 min cd prior to legion

when they brought it back it feels so weird now though

[dense cedar]

vanish is also a way lamer cd now

At least we got Crimson Tempest

oh fuck

reminds me

Can people see poison bomb now?

[fleet whale]

yay... it was garbage in mop in wod... so blizz just increased it's damage a ton to make it good

[opaque tree]

I personally don't like CT but whatever

[fleet whale]

as a 100 talent it's kind of lame tbh, but it is good

[dense cedar]

its... something

[zenith oak]

they need to make pb baseline and give it like a 30 sec cd

[dense cedar]

and that's enough for me

[zenith oak]

so we have some on demand burst aoe

[fleet whale]

assassination in t21 could do it all pretty much

maybe not burst aoe but it was still really good in m+

[dense cedar]

can't wait till m+ as as sin gives me depression and I switch to Sub

[fleet whale]

I've been having a lot of fun as sub so far

[elfin raft]

what is it in M+ that will make sin annoying

[dense cedar]

At least sin will have the late advantage, the higher the keystone the more useful sin is

[lone junco]

I'd prefer pb with 2charges and a lot more heat.

[zenith oak]

ya, something we have more control of

outlaw is the rng spec 😄

[dense cedar]

outlaw has some fun things in its kit

if rtb wasn't a part of it I'd probs play it

[fleet whale]

the new blade flurry is great

[dense cedar]

okay

i just crafed so gross shit in my brain for sin

gives as a cd that makes our next cast cleave

sin fixed

[fleet whale]

I hope sin gets some decent changes in 8.1 but I don't have hopes

[dense cedar]

is everyone running Toxic Blade btw?

[fleet whale]

I think a lot of people are yes

[dense cedar]

Exsang is always there

taunting

[fleet whale]

you also have venom rush...

[twin tartan]

what changes are you holding out for?

[dense cedar]

Venom rush makes me sad when I look at it

[fleet whale]

"assassain's precision" all abilities now have 15% additional chance to crit

Kingsbane as a talent

VM now ticks for 10 energy, up from 7

[twin tartan]

essentially just a speed up of the pace of the spec?

[fleet whale]

yeah, or at least make it as smooth as it was in legion

it doesn't need to be 55 apm, but where it is now is just terrible

[twin tartan]

tbh legion sin in preraid en gear was similar to this

[fleet whale]

in antorus sin was at 40 apm for me... but the spec was really smooth. Even if I take blindside to make sin at 38 apm, it still feels bad

yeah, and I hated early legion sin

didn't like it really until tos came out

[twin tartan]

honestly what's the problem with the low apm

[fleet whale]

it's not about the apm, it's about the smoothness or ebb and flow of the spec

[zenith oak]

there's nothing wrong with it. the spec will speed up as we get gear through the expansion

[twin tartan]

does it really matter if you can press mut 4-5 more times per minute

[zenith oak]

thats how sin ha always played

[twin tartan]

yeah, I'm with drak on this

[zenith oak]

since wrath

when it actually beccame a spec

[fleet whale]

if you guys are satisfied with a spec that I feel is a shell of what it was in Legion that is fine by me. I've mained this spec since MoP and know about the slow starts and know it has been relatively simple but I've never seen it so bland as it is now.

[twin tartan]

honestly the biggest thing about the spec in legion was kingsbane which was a good mechanic

otherwise you had dogshit degenerate garbage like blood of the assassinated

[fleet whale]

blood of the assassinated was just a generic golden trait, but we also lost poison damage from FoK, surge of toxins which synergized really well with KB and other things in the spec. Crimson vial wall, mutilate crit, and yes, reduced cd from sprint

[twin tartan]

generic golden trait? you mean it added rng that made or break your dps for a pull

[fleet whale]

what? maybe at the start of legion, but it hardly had an impact later on... that was PB that made the impact

[twin tartan]

surge of toxins mayaswell be called elaborate planning 2.0 which mayaswell be called envenom 2.0

they're just mechanics that reward pooling to an extent

[fleet whale]

yeah, but stacking multipliers is satisfying

[twin tartan]

I get what you're saying but from a gameplay perspective they did nothing

since their dmg is just baked into the spec baseline now

I personally think they should go all out supporting sin as slow and meticulous, with more planning / pooling focused gameplay

[fleet whale]

idk man, I was actually really positive for sin at the start of BFA alpha, but they didn't make changes I thought they would make

and again, it's not about pacing. Antorus sin was at 40 apm for me, but it still felt smooth

[twin tartan]

and it will get better, unlike in the past haste is good for sin, it will lead to the spec feeling much faster with gear

how was antorus sin any different to now, enlighten me since I'm missing something

[fleet whale]

shoulders on opener, chaining mutilates into envenoms

t21 4 piece

[twin tartan]

that's not exactly smooth

all it meant was a larger portion of your globals was spent on envenom

and the 2pc is a direct increase in pacing, which we will experience as we get more gear and more haste

[fleet whale]

the talent tree is also really bad... might be one of the worst in the game low key

[twin tartan]

if anything the t21 4 pc and shoulders took skill away from sin due to how high envenom uptime got

[fleet whale]

and it wasn't great in legion