I imagine outlaw wouldnt be bad if you dont take alacrity
#assassination
zealous lily
pretty raid comp dependent also like if all the oozes die before your blade flurry charges are over you'd rather be sub
lofty junco
i don't get it what so many people have against sin...it feel very good and for me it perform very well
charred moat
Same
zealous lily
people just like to signal spiral over video game choices
charred moat
Hurts my hand though
charred moat
Im topping dps on aoe and single target most of the time
hoary copper
All of them are fine, people just have preferences. Some dont like slow specs
charred moat
Sins aoe isnt very slow
lofty junco
some poeple just sound like the "FOTM" player for me
halcyon glacier
i mean, there's nothing wrong with playing fotm though
dire spoke
it's both, depending on what you'll be doing
halcyon glacier
i change spec basically every dungeon just for fun
dire spoke
°-°
lofty junco
yeah but a fotm player in my opinion isn't that happy like someone that play the class/specc for fun^^
gleaming eagle
i usually hate playing the fotm class
charred moat
Spamming garrote and rupture on all the trash is fun, crimpson tempest slows it down so i prefer poison bomb which seems to be doing better for me anyway
lofty junco
i love the playstyle of sin so i just stay there^^
gleaming eagle
didnt know rogue is fotm this patch
lofty junco
i think arms was fotm^^
halcyon glacier
everyone always does
lofty junco
why?
gleaming eagle
mainly pvp
lofty junco
yeah but why^^
charred moat
World pvp ganking sure is fun
gleaming eagle
halcyon glacier
they think rogue has too much dmg for the utility or vice versa. w/e
charred moat
You do real dickhead shit like sapping people who are summoning or hearthing
charred moat
Most people panic when they get opened on by a rogue when they arent expecting it
lofty junco
and i hate 3-5 hunters that camp on worldquests....
dire spoke
oh noes, a class does more dps than others because it's pretty much all it has to offer for a raid group
charred moat
Then you can always vanish and cloak away and you're pretty much invulnerable
dire spoke
°-° nerf it
gleaming eagle
whats your pvp rotation opener as a sin btw?
charred moat
Im liking all the shroud skips in mythic right now
manic rampart
they shouldve put cloak on gcd
charred moat
Garrote cheap shot mutilate mutulate rupture vendetta toxic mutilate envenom and all the stuns
gleaming eagle
i see
charred moat
Usually they die unless they're a tank or pally
gleaming eagle
yeah i hate fighting pallys
lofty junco
i hate pally....
gleaming eagle
ret pallys was a nightmare to fight back in legion
lofty junco
and healers sometimes
charred moat
Most of the time they're half health before they come out of the first stun
gleaming eagle
ah
lofty junco
w/o CT ya ahve more time for rupture all targets
charred moat
And rupture gives you the energy back
lofty junco
yeah i gues CT is bad w/o enough haste
gleaming eagle
i see
lofty junco
w/o enough ahste ya need many rupture to have a good aoe
charred moat
I hope they dont nerf fathoms anyway
lofty junco
me2
charred moat
Things better than mythic uldir trinkets
Crazy
Id consider it lucky we can buy our best trink when casters and healers is a random world boss drop
charred moat
Hoping I can get the dooms wake one though
lofty junco
yeah but until that i ahve atm the 2 best trinkets for my sin^^
charred moat
I got lucky and got a 340 and 345 weapon with a socket
Might pop the enchants on them, 15% more attack speed
lofty junco
yeah
charred moat
Seems like dual wielding specs have an advantage over one weapon ones since they can have two enchants
lofty junco
ya use quick navigation enchant and the other for crit i think its called deathly navigation
vale flax
what percent of haste is good? like 30%?
lofty junco
we have no cap for it
charred moat
Still on the top
lofty junco
but 20-25% would be a good goal
the most of us run atm with 5-15%^^
but for that i ahve 20% crit^^
vale flax
20% crit seems like a must
charred moat
Your secondarys go down each level
vale flax
and then 25% haste so my energy doesnt feel like garbage
charred moat
I started out with nearly 40 at 110
vale flax
this weekend I am going to power farm for gear and hopefully it will correct my issues.
charred moat
Times change
vale flax
thanks for the info
zealous lily
get you 2 340s and the weapon enchants. it helps a ton with low secondaries
+600 on crit and haste both on extended encounters. amazing
zealous tree
in new to rouge someone here maybe has a link or screenshot for the talents ?
hoary copper
zealous tree
thx
lofty junco
i'm still sit on my 310/290 dagger....with 324 ilvl....
ionic crown
hey @gusty kestrel he thinks he has it bad :^)
lofty junco
he has worser weapons?^^
sounds bad^^
i hope for some dagger wq to get 330-340 weapons
hoary copper
That's bad luck
lofty junco
and i will not use more of my gold after buyed the darkmoon trinket to buy 1kk weapons
lone junco
I'll prob get the darkmoon next week if it makes it past a patch day. I'm hesitant to pay prior to balancing.
All fun things must come to an end.
hoary copper
Why dont you have enough ink Noobe? 😉
lofty junco
but if they buff it, then it will cost more^^
hoary copper
I need to make at least 1 to sell on my lock before it gets balanced. Dont think that will happen considering I dont have 110 or whatever inscription yet and Im only 113
urban storm
i cant get azerite shoulders to save my life
10+ and counting on both helm/chest for 325+
lofty junco
got 340 shoulders today in the 340 chestr
urban storm
what chest?
lofty junco
that faction chest for 4 wq
lofty junco
yeah i know
lone junco
@hoary copper 20k more herbs and I'll be gtg.
hoary copper
Is that all?
lofty junco
should now got 330-340 ilvl with wq
lone junco
I've made cards in the past prob 10 total. I sell my copies and buy a few Tends to be about half price market
Make 2. Sell one. Get mine free
hoary copper
12 viridescent ink, parchment and expulsom each? jeeze
think I'll switch to tailor or alchemy or enchanting lol
lone junco
yeah, viri ink is like 2k per. ah, for a random card. and mill rates are probably berserk. for legion I had a spreadsheet to predect mass mill per green ink. havent done it yet for bfa.
iirc 8 cards. so 1000 * 12 * 8 = 96000? +/-
assuming you can sell of the duplicate cards.
half that.
hoary copper
Ick
lone junco
thats not so horrible, I would have to know the mill rated per herb, because "for legion" they were very different for different herbs.
hoary copper
like how many you get per herb?
hoary copper
ah yea that sounds about right
lone junco
960 herbs or 50k worth of weeds if you can straight by the herbs.
but sure as fuck youll get so many of the wrong cards.
hoary copper
I should just keep selling. The first pigment you get that makes the moonglow ink is selling 120g each. a stack of earthroot/silverleaf/peacebloom is MAYBE 25g and will give me 4-8
lone junco
and someone will gouge the shit out of you for an ace.
vestal dune
Sounds fake
true ingot
Yeah it's probably just propoganda
urban storm
just an alternative weapon
i bought all my cards
spent like 350k total, which is fine because there typically isnt anything to spend gold on anyways
lofty junco
hmm got a 340 tol dagor aoe trinket from the last boss. not that bad^^
true ingot
How is that, Blake?
It's damage seemed pathetic to me.
But maybe it has really good RPPM
silk sundial
Haven't had a chance to play sin yet, how does it feel in mythics? I'm sure the damage is fine but is it as slow as people were saying?
calm barn
yeah with low haste
im at 13% now and it feels better
i've got these 2 bad boys
its a shame you cant use both at pull
celeridad = haste
hoary copper
shame I cant read either one of them
calm barn
pretty sure you can read critico as critical
hoary copper
cba to look it up
calm barn
use brain
lofty junco
i got the left as 345^^
calm barn
nice It has such a short cd
split veldt
ebon bramble
for shrouded suffocation, does the damage bonus affect garrote outside of stealth?
edgy wharf
what stats for assa?
cloud finch
i'm surprised the trait for it is valued so highly then, and that Twist fell so hard so quickly.
hoary copper
@edgy wharf
edgy wharf
umm okay
hoary copper
Everyone is different. We cant tell you, you have to do the work and sim yourself to know for real
thorny maple
How's everyone enjoying assassination at 120?
dire spoke
idk, didn't raid yet
kindred lagoon
i feel squishy as fuck and energy starved 😦
steep citrus
typical american
cinder palm
😂
blissful crown
Are ppl running with MfD or Vigor?
cinder palm
I’ve been running vigor but haven’t really simmed to see what’s better
blissful crown
Same, just read on the ravenholt they use MfD
primal lance
I simmed myself and vigor was always higher. I’m also not max level yet
round harbor
who here still using gorshlachs
cinder palm
Yeah I just can’t wait till higher haste
I hit 330 ilvl and feels better but sin is going to pump with nice haste
round harbor
yeah im at the point where my haste is so low that it feels like EP is not worth
like sims wise it is better, but i have a real hard time clipping Envenoms into my EP windows
and when im not clipping them it just seems like such a huge loss
primal lance
Feels bad you stack haste at the end of legion only to literally lose it all while leveling to have to grind it back
abstract crescent
how bad is ass compared to sub atm?
steep citrus
11
hoary copper
They're both good
cinder palm
Sin feels slow on ST but when you get ruptures out on aoe I think it feels great
round harbor
whats the item called that prevents you from getting dazed on your mount for 2 hjours?
strange python
coarse leather boarding
river quarry
how do ya open with toxic blade?
never used it
just prior to first envenom then on cd?
also worth using atm?
final dust
Garrote>Mut>Rup>Ven>Mut>TB>Rup
Then continue till garrote gets to 5.4 and the vanish refresh
abstract crescent
why are ya'll playing ass?
final dust
I like the play style of keeping bleeds on everything and it’s in the middle of both AoE and ST
river quarry
why not play assass??
abstract crescent
it's the weakest one atm no/
strange python
according to what
cerulean lava
I thought Assassination was the high dps currently for Rogue
civic palm
For anything, atm, for ST at least.
river quarry
yeah nfi
vestal dune
Assa used to scale really good too, I think it will still
lofty junco
ahhhh @strange python ya lost ya assa colour!!!!
civic palm
SIN scaled very poorly in Legion and was carried entirely by Poison Bomb luck to break out of the 95% bracket.
SIN scales very well now, but our stats are so low due to it being the beginning of an expansion after a stat squish and things feel kinda baaaaaaaaaaad.
But we will be fine (we're fine now...).
lofty junco
and when we should be the lowest spec...i would play assa caus i love it^^
vestal dune
Didnt sin with the single target poison scale super hard?
lofty junco
TB?
civic palm
AP he means.
and that was dead in NH due to being a shit ability to promoted target tunneling.
Shortly after it was buffed from a 15% proc chance to a 30% proc chance to remove the chance that AP could just fall off due on no part to your play.
Which was super cool.
vestal dune
I only played the beginning of legion, but remember ap having to get removed because too many multiplicative dmg increases
civic palm
I am not sure it was ever stated as to why it was removed.
But it did exist during a phase in which we got quite a bit of DMG from our Tier bonuses.
and that AP would not have been an issue after that.
The larger issue being AP+Surge of Toxins did not lead to clear gameplay choices for the average player/
vestal dune
I believe sims with high mastery were sky rocketing, I might remember wrong tho
civic palm
As they should have, as it was correctly increasing the DMG amp. from AP.
But tuning corrects that, not removing the ability entirely.
oblique smelt
what is AP again? just rerolled rogue after playing it quite a bit in Legion so not 100% on the names yet
vestal dune
I agree that it was bad gameplay tho, target swaping was a pain
civic palm
AP was Agonizing Poison.
oblique smelt
ahhhh
civic palm
An ability to amplified the damage you did through a stacking poison.
oblique smelt
yea i remember that, removed in 7.2? or something like that
civic palm
That snapshotted with Surge of Toxins for further increases.
This lead to the almost year long belief that Surge of Toxins somehow increased Envenom damage.
Thanks Blizzard.
quartz ginkgo
AP was dumb, it promoted tunneling
civic palm
MegaDumb
vestal dune
Btw, I just did a couple of 15k iteration sims and leeching poison gives me a 60 dps increase, is there any reason for this or just luck?
solid nova
You understand what an iteration is, right?
vestal dune
I keep doing them and leeching always wins by around 60-80 dps
What are the chances tho?
civic palm
EVERY BIT MATTERS
vestal dune
I am just curious
8 sims already, leeching keeps winning
Always samr amount more or less
oblique smelt
Maybe its because with leeching poison the sim doesnt have to move out of a boss mechanic and can just keep dpsing 
vestal dune
10, every single one leeching wins by +60, could that talent affect the apl somehow?
civic palm
no
primal lance
Wouldn’t it just be cuz leeching poison adds extra damage unlike any other trait in that row?
civic palm
What... damage...
vestal dune
How?
solid nova
Leaching poison offers no dps increase
vestal dune
It was over 10 sims, seems really unlikely
civic palm
Seems entirely likely.
solid nova
Its 60dps. Its not of any significance. The talents in that row offer no dps increases.
civic palm
As it just happened O _O
vestal dune
I dont expect that talent to give me more dps, but it might have some interaction with some of my gear or who knows what that might affect the apl?
solid nova
Theres also a margin of error to account for
Which it most definitely falls into at such an incredibly low value
safe matrix
There's variance with any sim, you can reduce this amount of variance by increasing the number of iterations.
vestal dune
I will do more sims once my pc boots
oblique smelt
Rolling a 6 on a dice 10 times in a row doesnt prove anything, its just luck. Just like that sim
solid nova
Have you tried simming different iteration amounts
vestal dune
With more iterations
solid nova
Its 60dps, like, why even the effort this far is beyond me.
Beyond trivial amount
Theres no secret mystery behind it
vestal dune
Because it might mean something is wrong when doing the calculations
solid nova
Well theres not
quartz ginkgo
and its patchwerk.. when are you going to find a strict pathwerk fight other than a target dummy? 60 dps is irrelevant
safe matrix
if I flip a coin and get heads that doesnt mean getting heads is 100% every time.
vestal dune
if I flip the coin 15 times and I get heads the 15 times, I start thinking something might happen
vestal dune
I am keeping doing more rn
safe matrix
yeah but 60 dps isnt 15 head flips of the coin
vestal dune
having one of the 2 when it should be 50% win every time is the same
oblique smelt
Traint
check the sim i linked
2 EXACT SAME TALENTS sim differently
if that doesnt show you that there is just variance in sims then i dunno what will
vestal dune
Yeah, but it might have something to do with one of my trinkets, azerite traits or whatever
solid nova
Nothing in that talent row is affecting your dps.
Its just apparent you don't understand how sims work.
vestal dune
I am 15 sims in, leeching keeps wining always by +60
vestal dune
ofc it has no dps value
ionic crown
then stop claiming it does
solid nova
Again, 60 dps is within margin of error
vestal dune
I am not claiming it does
vestal dune
I am claiming the sim might get affected by it somehow because some interaction
solid nova
And im telling you it doesnt.
solid nova
By all means theres plenty of theory crafters to compare your feelings with
If you find the great mystery then feel free to share it
Otherwise, dont clutter the spec channels thanks
rustic plume
what trinkets are you guys using?
just got the cannonball runner, but not sure how i feel about it
distant hinge
where is fuus WA?
oblique smelt
340 Azerokks Resonating heart and 325 First Mates spyglass
distant hinge
nvm found the one i was looking for
oblique smelt
What 100 talent have you guys been running for mythics? just been doing poison bomb, but heard somewhere that crimson tempest spam might also be decent aoe
keen spruce
I'm like 87% sure Traint is trolling
vestal dune
Idk, 23 sims and leeching keeps wining every single time for me. If somebody can get a sim where cheat death wins simming my char
Mate, sim my char with talents, get cheat death win once and I will give you the reason
I might just be incredibly unlucky
Traint ravencrest eu
keen spruce
just pull the code from the sim
it's not pulling numbers from wizardry and good feelings
if you really want to know what's going on
sonic sequoia
Hello guys, i think we asked u this question like 1 million times but why do we have to refresh garrote at 5.4 sec and rupture at 7.2 ?
spring lantern
As a non-Sin player I will say Pandemic
Aka the DoT will be applied at full length while carrying over the duration from the previous DoT and not having any downtime
sonic sequoia
k thx guys 😃
white temple
vestal dune
In case anyone cares, I stopped getting data from the armory and put the simcraft addon string, and also changed the kul tiran cannonball runner trinket for another trinket and cheat death started winning some sims
Might be related to one of those 2 things, 24 sims leeching poison won before that
fallow estuary
People on my server are weird
sniped my second dagger of xing now
one for 90k and now one for 9k
9k <3
primal lance
You’re lucky af wow. For generic traits does it really matter which I choose? My choices currently are resounding protection and bulwark of the masses. My helm has resounding protection already
keen spruce
wait I mean you should always pull the Simc string
@fallow estuary get me one 
i'm stuck with 290 daggers still
brave lily
Do you guys think Crimson Tempset or Poison Bomb is better for Mythics and stuff atm guys?
keen spruce
pretty sure bomb is still the way to go
tempest maybe for mythic + when they roll out, remains to be seen
sharp ravine
guys which spec is better right now for pve?
brave lily
Just switching over from Sub to try the spec out. I haven't touched Assassination since nighthold lmao. Before toxic blasde was even a thing!
grim sail
How do u guys do dps in aoe? I just garrote 3 targets, one rupture, or two dependant if there are mobs that will live long and then spam envenom. I just get energy starved so fast though. I build cp with fan of knives
west frost
Could be poor stat allocation, could be your rotation
fresh ginkgo
so unlucky with these darkmoon cards ⛏ 
brave lily
Just to clarify - if you're talent into MA, you hold vanish for garotte refresh at the bottom?
west frost
My instincts would tell me you hold vanish for spamming if you're on MA
Similar to mantle in legion
calm barn
did they hotfix something?
west frost
But considering we want to be garroteing from stealth as often as possible you're probably not making full use of that and your talent if you're trying to do both
bright sand
how reliable is herodamage trait sim
brave lily
Sorry - to clarify - i meant if you're NOT talented into MA
(which, correct me if I'm wrong) most people aren't atm at all?
blazing ocean
Hello team, has anyone put together a pre raid bis list that they wouldnt mind sharing?
safe matrix
Well its really hard to put together a BiS list just ebcause titan/warforging is a thing
the only real reliable way to optimize your gear nowadays is to sim it.
abstract crescent
sooo
blazing ocean
even with the limited loot and such a small gap between m0 ilvl and cap?
abstract crescent
is it normal I can't kill a disc priest 1v1?
peak sapphire
Download simc and pawn, get your stat weights then equip anything that is an increase - with set bonusws and legendaries gone, everything is just a stat stick now.
With the exception of azerite pieces
safe matrix
you can directly compare pieces of gear too
its just hard to create a BiS list when anything can be +15 ilvl higher
royal lantern
you get a new piece of gear and you are not sure if it is better? sim it and you know it
safe matrix
you get a 940 ring with optimal stats, or a 955 ring with decent stats
its hard to say with a list
shell sandal
how is Elaborate Planning best now?
lofty junco
940? i think there is something wrong xD
blazing ocean
fair enough, i guess i meant more of like a priority dungeon list or eh idk
lofty junco
its not the "best"
blazing ocean
guess i'mjust trying to get someone to do work for me eh
lofty junco
its comeing to ya sim, for me is MP stronger
shell sandal
havent simmed in a while. will have to.
peak sapphire
Ep is generally better on aoe because you have infinite cp
urban storm
how do you maange to have infinite cp
lofty junco
EP doesn't give ya infinite CP
i think he mean that ya get the everytime the same EP duration doesn't matter how many CP ya used for the finisher
1CP finisher get the same duration like 5 CP
urban storm
yeah i dont see where the infinite CP comes from though lol
i feel like i never have CP, or energy, or anything lol
lofty junco
i doesn't ether^^
safe matrix
Seal fate
urban storm
i have 16 crit at 326
safe matrix
everytime you crit with FoK you gain a combo point
lofty junco
yeah but ya need enough crit for that^^
urban storm
so i'd have to be hitting 6 targets to "guarantee" 2
safe matrix
no
abstract crescent
what poisons do you guys run for pvp
safe matrix
its all about crit chance
urban storm
im aware how crit chance works
safe matrix
you can get 0 or you can get all, its random
lone junco
at least base line garrote mut ruptures is easy enough to keep up like 80% ep
lone junco
meh. >=2 cp ruptures help clip for ep, >=2 env same way. Ill run the apl with that tonight.
lofty junco
now in the starting phase i feel that MP is more accurat, cause we need more haste for EP
lone junco
but ep uptime for duration of subterfuge doesnt need much crit
sinful flint
I'm trying to optimize my Tricks macro, but my recent modifications are throwing errors, anyone got an idea?:
Original:
/run ToT = UnitName("target")
/run if not InCombatLockdown() then EditMacro('TotT', nil, nil, '#showtooltip\n/cast [target='.. ToT ..'] Tricks of the Trade', nil); print('Tricks of the Trade set to : ' .. ToT); else print('Cannot change TotT now!'); end;
Mine:
/run ToT = UnitName("target")
/run EditMacro('Fan', nil, nil, '#showtooltip\n/cast [target='.. ToT ..'] Tricks of the Trade\n/cast Fan of Knives', nil); print('Tricks of the Trade set to : ' .. ToT); end;
MP and EP were literally 1 dps off for me
sinful flint
I use focus for blind, and I cannot blind my tank @lone junco
cold patrol
Just thinking, how much Haste to u think is needed before u go Assassination? atm i do like 1-2k more dmg as Outlaw but i so want to go Assassination
urban storm
i just switched to subterfuge so that may help
urban storm
yeah im using 1211321 now
shell sandal
what are your stat percentages?
urban storm
i had crimson tempest on for a while, forgot to switch back to PB when i finished the island excursion
barren tree
Isnt EP better ? for Tier 1
urban storm
MP EP was 1 dps difference on sim
lofty junco
21% crit 6 % haste and 30% mastery
barren tree
hmm
urban storm
16 crit 12 haste 26 mastery 9 vers (most of my gear has vers unfortunately)
lofty junco
and aoe? no problems atm
3 empowered garrots, fok, rupture on all targets and envenom for the rest
urban storm
i mean, the aoe was sufficient when i was using crimson tempest, but yeah i wasnt using subterfuge
lofty junco
and i outdpsing sometimes BM's and other hunters^^
opaque tree
I cannot find any site other than icyveins that tells what the preferred weapon enchants are for Assassin
lofty junco
i got better results with PB
opaque tree
is it still being tested?
opaque tree
okay, that's actually what it says
and so i'm guessing they don't stack and that's why you have different ones?
lofty junco
but don't was it on weapons that lwoer then 340
lofty junco
what ya mean cel?
urban storm
not many mythic items being disenchanted yet
lofty junco
yeah just wait until next week^^
urban storm
it seems good?
frozen mesa
curious if you guys use Toxic blade at 4 out of 5 CP to get the buff before envenoms or do we try to fish for 3 CP and not waste the possible double CP generated from TB
urban storm
idk
lofty junco
allright a little problem
urban storm
i havent really loked into enchants yet, because i dont typically enchant gear 4 days after an expansion released lol
lofty junco
why is my dps 1k higher then hours before without any changes?
i sim now better then before
urban storm
trying to get into siege of boralus group, but every group has 3dps
bold harness
urban storm
does subterfuge work with shrouded suffocation
lofty junco
"Which weapon enchants do I use?
--Use your first and second highest weighted stats for weapon enchantments. You have diminished returns if you double up on one, so only do this if that one stat is much better than the rest."
yes
urban storm
so just1
what i figured
would be pretty OP otherwise
i guess not since you'd be limited by gcd
lofty junco
just stack it 3x and it will be great for ST and OP for aoe^^
btw weapon enchants are in the pins^^
here a good comparing for enchants
deathly+quick navigation sims 1,6% higher then 2xquick navigation
abstract crescent
why do people run deadly over wounding poison in pvp
nobody answers me on pvp 😦
lone junco
There is a pvp trait that converts deadly to wound and deadly.
The other trait converts deadly to wound and mind numbing.
abstract crescent
wait what 😮
odd tundra
😁
supple hearth
@abstract crescent
odd tundra
It's pretty guch ay
frozen mesa
yeah that should always be one of your slots imo!
woven magnet
Fastest way to 303ilvl for heorics?
frozen mesa
gold
woven magnet
These shitty trinkets killing my ilvl
fleet whale
get lucky like me and have a random 350 piece drop
abstract crescent
WAIT
where did you get deadly brew
oh
it's because i'm only 103 gotcha, need 110
lone junco
@supple hearth the wording there. Is wound poison plus MP. More than a "minor wound poison"?
Like major/minor
supple hearth
@lone junco you get a better effect using just wound if you want healing reduction.
deadly brew is a reduced effect as youre getting the benefit of damage
abstract crescent
master poisonner vs elaborate planning... what is best
violet sonnet
I don't understand how the fuck to upkeep a decent amount of AoE damage even with CT right now.
I think i'm just not geared enough.
I only maintain like 6k.
odd tundra
It's just not decent
strange python
what are your talents? what does your typical aoe opener look like?
violet sonnet
I open with stealth fok, rupture as many targets as i can and upkeep rupture on as many targets as possible
civic palm
No uh... no Garrote huh?
delicate socket
with subterfuge talent you can garrote multiple targets
civic palm
I am not gonna assume anything.
violet sonnet
I don't really get how my rotation is supposed to start out on aoe, even if im garroting multiples, rupturing them, and trying to get PB procs i struggle with doing above average damage.
violet sonnet
Are my weapons holding back damage that badly?
tawny agate
it seems assaassination is getting outperformed by sub, is that true?
dry trail
where?
flint jetty
I feel like low secondaries might have something to do w that esp hast and crit
quick egret
Has anyone managed to find any daggers yet? Im sitting on 280 daggers whereas everything else is 325+
dry trail
bought a 350 one for 400k 😛
charred moat
I simmed two of the highest ilvl rogues I could find and the sub one was ahead on patchwerk by just 300dps
quick egret
That is one way to do it lol
flint jetty
There are 300 ilvl daggers on ah likely. For lower than that 350 lmao. Also some WQ s and just dungeons
dry trail
yeah you can buy 300 ilvl ones for about 15k and 310 ones for about 70-80k
but I was like fuck that I have goldcap anyway that's what it's for
dry trail
yeah, it's basically gonna come down to which spec gets rekt in the last week of tuning
altough if I'M a betting man it's gonna be sub
cos they're going to destroy blade in the shadows, which is what makes sub ST so good atm
flint jetty
Lol yeah I played sin legion and pre patch. Just doing outlaw and sub so I can be comfortable in all 3 come raid time ^^
strange python
I feel like Sin is in a bit of a downtime for the mythic runs, am I wrong ?
charred moat
Yeah
strange python
Hmm nah i'm using poison flask
dry trail
CT is the only thing that makes assa kinda fun in dungeons, why wouldnt you be using it 😛
charred moat
Thats odd then I was using tempest and found it slower than just rupturing everything
strange python
Aha, i don't know, I just don't feel like assa is actually fun
dry trail
cos its slow AF, it'll probably be decent in like 2 tiers when we can get like 30% haste
strange python
I find it super slow, always pooling, struggling to get the CP
charred moat
Maybe its how I play but the specs hurting my hand the same way spriest did in legion
strange python
Yeah pooling is an important part of assa's rotation
Yet I feel like i'm really doing this A LOT rn
charred moat
Seems pretty quick to me, garroting everything out of stealth fan of knives and rupturing everything and keeping it all up
Maybe its a bit slow on ST i guess
strange python
I don't know, even if I do press my buttons a lot
I feel like this isnt effective
I might just go Sub for first raid tier
violet sonnet
i feel like with 320 ilvl i should be able to maintain more than 7k single target.
but i honestly don't see what's missing out of the rotation
mint oar
Sup peeps
I’m considering coming back
Cuz I hate my life
I quit during fallen avatar cuz that boss is aids
I got burnt out
I wanna come back as a casual
violet sonnet
well we feel really clunky and slow
mint oar
But not that casual
Is sin better than sub?
Oh fuck me
Do I have to play sub again?
Tos was the worst month of my lige
Life
Sub made me quit wow
violet sonnet
sub and outlaw are better feeling, and probably more dps atm
violet sonnet
couldnt tell ya
charred moat
I dont know why everyones complaining about sin it seems great to me 
bitter sentinel
has anyone found a good haste rating to shoot for to make things not awful feeling?
charred moat
im at 8%
tidal sedge
so how much better is crimson tempest compared to poison bomb?
mint oar
What are people thinking of playing for the M race?
keen spruce
Whos peepee do I have to touch for some daggers to drop?
Also am I the only one that doesn’t feel like this spec doesn’t feel awful?
charred moat
just you and me apparently
hardy anchor
anyone reccomend any daggers that are easy enough to get?
Been running outlaw through HCs since I've had no luck getting one in any dungeons yet.
quick ice
you have been in sub/sin loot spec, right? 😃
quick ice
other than the crafted or BOE daggers, I don't know of any easy ones, sorry
thorny maple
Any speculation on how assassination will be for raids?
odd tundra
Can some one foresee the future pls
hardy anchor
But assassination is so versatile, so hopefully there aren't fights designed to fuck with us.
thorny maple
I cant decide which rogue spec I want to "main"
odd tundra
If you practice enough you can be good with any spec unless you are going for world records I suppose
hardy anchor
Outlaw is so sick when the procs are in your favour, and the AOE burst is disgusting.
But I mean, assassination is just the most fun imo.
thorny maple
do you think it will end up being a bottom spec though?
hardy anchor
I doubt that highly
odd tundra
I'm only 118 but my assa dmg is all over the place with procs atm
thorny maple
Do you think outlaw will be in the bottom?
odd tundra
Dude
violet sonnet
it's like between 6-11k is where i bounce around
hardy anchor
They're all situational
odd tundra
Agddhvxjf
odd tundra
Can you think with your brain?
hardy anchor
just pick whichever playstyle you feel most comfortable on and have the most fun with.
All specs are viable.
odd tundra
Omg
feral pelican
Hey guys what is the best spec and what is the best stat for assassination
feral pelican
what is the best talents to take? Like I am taking poison bomb.... and I dont like it honestly
hardy anchor
Poison bomb is the best for single target and solid for AOE, Crimson Tempest is good for sustained AOE fights, and Hidden Blades is good for a quick burst of AOE.
I always run Poison Bomb personally.
you can check out the guides in the pins if you want more resources.
thorny maple
You're the best scylok
hardy anchor
no worries my dude.
hardy anchor
I fucks wit Toxic Blade, haven't tried out exsanguinate much, but I reckon it's solid for 2-3 target fights where you can keep the dots up and really benefit from the energy boost.
quartz ember
is shrouded suffocation bugged? the damage buff to garrote isnt stacking
night cypress
i believe so
quaint rune
any1 here doing mythic+'s exclusively and plan on playing sin for it?
odd tundra
If only ct procced venomous wounds :/
quaint rune
you guys feel like our energy regen is low in dungeons?
hardy anchor
It feels low right now, but just because stats are lower than they'll be once gear gets phatter I guess.
odd tundra
Haste
limber flax
Hey guys, im new in this group, i was wondering if any of you have a guide for bis preraid?
odd tundra
Now I'm super keen to get home from work and give exang a go
quaint rune
i am gonna mess with exting also
limber flax
I saw one on Icy Veins, but im not sure if its the right one
hardy anchor
Icy Veins is usually where I'd go for that sort of thing, but things are still so early on I say you can just sorta roll with whatever you get.
peak jungle
So for Mythic +, I take it based off pins that crit/mastery will be my best bet?
odd tundra
It's rough out there atm
shell inlet
Hmm so reading through some comments it seems I'm not the only one feeling energy starved and squishy as sin 😅
shell inlet
Yeah I just hit 120 so I'm anticipating it to get better with gear
Just feels a bit different than beginning of other xpacs lol
Kinda like it
World questing has not been too fun while squishy and energy starved (espec with war mode on) lol
odd tundra
Good one flec I like
limber flax
Yeah, and if you use the talent Shrouded Suffocation in the artifact pieces, you can stack a lot of combo points
Not in a long fight, but in dungeons is pretty good
mossy hollow
guys i prayed to the poison bomb god today and he didn't bless me - any sacrifical suggestions
odd tundra
Dmg is fluctuating alot for me with procs atm but I haven't been able to mess around heaps due to. Work
mossy hollow
clearly you need to quit your job
odd tundra
I guess I can..
mossy hollow
tell them you're going on a hiatus to be a rogue god
they will understand
if not, send damage meters
odd tundra
They will understand
hardy anchor
man I don't know what it was, but while levelling the Poison Bomb gods were insane.
Like getting 5 procs in a row
odd tundra
Il tell them I need to save assa
mossy hollow
@hardy anchor time to go play the lotto
hardy anchor
Also had like 6 5 procs from Roll the Bones today
It's like I bust all my luck on the useless content
and all late game raiding will just be crit and procless.
odd tundra
What is.probability.
hardy anchor
it's the name of the strap-on RNGesus is gonna use to fuck me.
hardy anchor
I got Ruthless pred 3 times in a row before being gifted a 5 proc, and then immediately fat fingering a 1 combo point RtB for another Ruthless
just outlaw things
kind violet
sooo... Shrouded Suffication is still bugged 
cinder palm
I messed around with hidden blades and the fan of knives traits today in some mythics and it seemed to put out some reliable aoe. Much better than waiting on PB procs. Was pretty happy with how that felt
sinful marsh
If anyone has any trouble proccing Meticulous scheming, you can use Detection to get one of the extra abilities without wasting energy on FoK or Tricks cooldown
onyx falcon
if you get any azerite traits for FoK, you should put on 3 for the fun of it, the range on a 3 stack is so huge its funny
civic palm
lol
sinful marsh
Does the wording change when you have one of them equipped? Without a trait, it says "increased to 15 yards
vestal wren
@mint oar how can i help you?
lavish terrace
anyone digging crimson tempest? it just feels so hard to use, feel way more energy starved as well
ripe dock
Tested it out for a few mythics but I felt like mobs died too fast to make it worth it
visual plinth
How's Assassin doing compared to Sub? I'm torn between the two specs
slender peak
anyone know any easily obtainable trinket sources in the 300 ilvl range that isnt from WQs or Darkmoon cards?
civic palm
The same as any other piece of gear, whenever they drop they drop, there are a lot of them though.
So maybe easier to get than a chase AA piece?
charred moat
Since everyone seems to be complaining about this apparent slowness in assassination which im not experiencing we might end up getting a buff
charred moat
I dont know why so many people are complaining they're energy starved or its slow
civic palm
Because it is.
charred moat
Must be playing a different game then
civic palm
SIN is literally the slowest spec in the game, people complain about it being that way because it is and they didn't expect it.
slender peak
its slow single target for sure but in AoE spam dungeons I dont feel energy starved
charred moat
On aoe feels like im playing as fast as shadow in legiom
gloomy stump
do you open with double garrote with subterfuge? is it worth it?
civic palm
Open with as many as you can.
night cypress
if you have multiple targets? ofc
civic palm
1 and then 1 during Vanish.
vapid moth
Stack haste and everything feels good again
gloomy stump
it is cheaper then mutilate and it does give you bonus points with the azerite trait
civic palm
1... and then 1 during Vanish.
vapid moth
What's with people using PB for sin when CT is just more enjoyable
civic palm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
charred moat
One crimson tempest compared to multiple ruptures
civic palm
1 CT also does a fucking stupid amount of damage as well.
vapid moth
Nah. With the garrote azerite trait. You pop garrote. Pop a mutilate. Pop a ruptures. Pop a ct and you're good
kindred flame
PB stil dose something to ST, don't think you will be shining on AoE anyway, if you wanna go AoE just chose different spec 🤷
charred moat
Yeah I dont like having ct for bosses
I feel like rupturing everything and getting the odd poison bomb is better but idk
civic palm
Doesn't really matter what you like, what matters is your damage (if you are searching to do as much as you can).
vapid moth
I dont mind. Ads are the hard part of most dungeons
charred moat
Well ct isnt better on bosses anyway
kindred flame
You refer to ads or trash? Is it same for you?
civic palm
Also being EP/CT is a 2% DPS loss on ST over PBOMB.
vapid moth
It's the same to me
civic palm
I can take that for wrecking trash.
vapid moth
If it doesn't have 10x my hp both ads and trash fit
kindred flame
Well then i have nothing more to add when trash and ads are the same thing
strange python
Or you could take HB
charred moat
👀
civic palm
HB is totally functional but feels bad to play.
vapid moth
"Wait dont pull I need some stacks"
civic palm
But also a 2% DPS loss on ST over PBOMB.
kindred flame
And the problematic trash is not freehold 23436574 mobs, the problematic are those which you wanna burst which is covered by 25 sec CD
civic palm
Which just makes CT the better choice outside of burst requirements.
PBOMB doesn't help you burst though so that's a moot option.
kindred flame
You have other classes to do the AoE you burst the target you need to go down, if you are watching for big numbers on damage meters (that is for AoE trash) play othre spec
civic palm
There's no better class ATM for big numbers on charts though > _> (outside of burst).
vapid moth
If that's the case why would we ever play sin
civic palm
You play SIN to crush Raid Prog.
vapid moth
Sin has everything
kindred flame
We need it in my group we have mage/DH which do enough AoE
I take the prio targets
grizzled pasture
trinket sims put darkmoon deck fathoms at the top, is this actually true?
vapid moth
Spend 300k
civic palm
Yeah spend your money!!
charred moat
The darkmoon industry inflates the data
grizzled pasture
🤔
civic palm
Fathoms is very good ATM.
vapid moth
Its 5 21 am. I must sleep but I dont wanna
civic palm
haha
vapid moth
I think my DK tank crafted it today
charred moat
I think the only thing that was equal or better was the dooms wake and like a 400 galecallers or something
civic palm
Sure.
slender peak
so iss bliz gonna f everyone who paid crazy gold for it?
charred moat
But all the casters and healers have a trink thats just like it which is ahead of everything
But its from a world boss
vapid moth
paying gold for gear
civic palm
If you paid crazy gold for a trinket week 1 of an expansion thinking that something that is literally too good to be true won't be nerfed...
I dunno what to tell you.
Not even week 1, day 2.
strange python
The trinket is going to be 50k in a week
charred moat
If it gets nerfed
kindred flame
Based on what? What makes you think it will went down hill, doubt herb price will go down anytime soon
strange python
That makes no difference
civic palm
It's currently down 100k on Stormrage in 24hrs.
strange python
It takes less than 2h herbing
vapid moth
More people will be able to make it
civic palm
Prices are currently inflated 300-500% of value.
strange python
To get the trinket
civic palm
That number will drop after people stop buying things for far too much.
charred moat
I feel like a bis trinket which will last you through the next raid shouldnt drop really low
vapid moth
Maybe. But only cause the people that really want it will craft it themselves
kindred flame
It dosen't take 2h herbing. you dont mill for specific cards, if you are counting getting cards selling buying and so on that is not 2h either
civic palm
Currently costs more to buy the cards and make the deck than just make the deck on SR.
Which should drop 50k-100k if the deck remains 300k.
kindred flame
I based that on the logic of getting the herbs for milling and crafting 11 cards
civic palm
Probably easier to just sell the herb and buy the cards/deck.
rustic plume
anyone using the kul tiras cannonball runner trinket?>
blissful crown
How are ppl opening with assa now days?
kindred flame
ST?
velvet magnet
Stealth>garrote>mut>rupture>Ven/TB>rotation
blissful crown
Fine thats what im doing aswell
Anyone with the Fathom deck yet?
Im thinking about buying it after i saw some guys talk about it in here last night
brisk forge
Dont buy it yet and pay stupied amount of gold
kindred flame
Why do you wanna buy the trinket is the question?
I mean if you can aford, w/o hurting you anyway sure
If it wil ltake 80% of your gold, its not a good idea
brisk forge
Why wouldnt you if the prices drops?
kindred flame
If it is 10% of my gold i iwll get it otherwise i won't
lofty junco
it was like 25% of my gold so it was ok^^
brisk forge
Its not that expensive tbh, and when prices drops it will be a easy good trinket if blizz dosent nerf it tho
wicked plover
they will nerf it for sure
lofty junco
they would nerf it, if it was BIS for all classes, but cause its jsut BIS for some speccs there is no need to nerf it
strange python
Ok
charred moat
If they nerf it they'll nerf the icicle aswell
lofty junco
icicle?
thorny maple
Why is dark iron dwarf so much higher than the rest for racial Sims for assa?
vocal carbon
was thinking about picking up assassin i main feral are they kind of similar?
kindred flame
Defo not "so much higher"
royal lantern
@thorny maple probably same reason why pandanren is that high for aoe stuff, mainstat boost
solemn furnace
strong jacinth
royal lantern
cus nobody can really tell you wich enchant is bis, it deepens on your stats
for some it is 2x quick navigation, for some 1xdeadly 1x quick etc...
orchid field
do multiple dagger in the back stack or just has a higher% change to stack up when you have it on multiple pieces?
lofty junco
FoK with 2+ or 3+ targets?
ionic hemlock
3+ i think
delicate socket
do azerite powers stack?
delicate socket
nice
radiant lagoon
how you guys enjoying assass right now?
lofty junco
very well
vagrant patio
Loving it, but am feeling weak in mobs above 5, especially with low health
somber otter
vapid moth
Enjoyable at a good haste. Granted you play with ct instead of rupturing literally everything
untold rampart
hey guys, thinking about trying assas in mythic dungeons and what not. Are you following the single target build or mutli for that type of content?
quiet atlas
I’m quite new to the rogue class and have recently been having a few difficulties. Any chance someone could help with the issue I have?
strange python
what is your issue?
quiet atlas
My rogue has no survivability. I’m level 120 and it seems like my rogue does no damage, and can’t take any hits. When I do my attack burst, it barely does anything to the world quest mobs. Anything I could do to improve my damage and survivability. My dps was around 6k, I can find out the exact dps if it’s important.
haughty lily
kinda how rogues are rn imo, but evasion and the crimson vials have been god sends for me
thorny maple
How is sin compared to outlaw in mythic dungeons?
shell inlet
You're not alone @quiet atlas , I've mained a rogue since vanilla and this is probably the first xpac I feel hella gimp after hitting 120 in. I've been told it gets better with some gear so hang in there.
Haven't tried outlaw/sub yet though, just sin
strange python
when you first ding 120 it can suck. but that's kind of broad. have you checked the pinned resources for the right talents and rotation?
normal galleon
It's starting to feel comfy at 335, but my haste still sucks.
quiet atlas
I’ve watched YouTube videos, that suggest talent builds for the new patch
thorny maple
I'm assuming sin will be stronger than outlaw in raids?
quiet atlas
I’ve heard sub was the best for raids @thorny maple
thorny maple
Are their any good pve rogue YouTubers? All I find is pvp
strange python
all three are close and The Great Tuning Pass of Heroic Uldir™ isn't here yet.
haughty lily
what daggers are the best rn preraid?
quiet atlas
Is there an alternative to killing world quest mobs to get armour? I’m not able to kill them alone.
haughty lily
i have no clue what mythic dungeons i should be running
strange python
check dungeon journal for loot table
Erandol, are you finishing at 4+ combo points? what does your "opener" look like?
quiet atlas
I tend to just press what ever is ready
strange python
yikes. Assassination is all about pacing yourself.
quiet atlas
What’s a good rotation then?
strange python
Maintain Garrote and Rupture. Only envenom when the previous envenom buff is about to run out (with a few exceptions). Don't mutilate at 4cp. Etc.
Read the guide at the top!
quiet atlas
Ok
thorny maple
What do you hit if rupture or envenom doesn't need refreshed but are at 4-5 CP?
quiet atlas
Is it just sin rogues that are having the same issues, or do all the rogues have issues dealing and taking damage
slender hare
Have you been to the Ravenholdt site and read up on the guide? I think you will feel like doing no damage in all specs, if you aren’t doing the correct rotation
quiet atlas
Is it a good idea to use the rotations in pvp?
normal galleon
Same ideas but much different pacing.
thorny maple
Is there somewhere I can see the breakdown of dps? How do we know all specs are doing well atm?
normal galleon
The numbers on those sites are bouncing around every couple of days, rogues have been top, then middle then upper third.
strange python
you can.... check the pinned resources for simulations!
thorny maple
All 3 specs?
thorny maple
Which do I look at for overall dps... Combinations?
strange python
yes, combinations is for showing what talents are best for each spec
you can also look at the simulationcraft website for rankings of every dps but I can't guarantee how accurate they are.
also keep in mind ALL of it will change when the tuning pass of heroic uldir comes...
thorny maple
Is there a place that compares rogue specs to other specs?
strange python
I just told you two of them
thorny maple
Cool
I don't want to focus on a spec and find out it's in the bottom half when another is in the top
smoky bluff
Elaborate Planning is still better than Blindside?
royal patrol
Wondering, does Assassination still got as much downtime as it did in Legion?
charred moat
Blindsides dogshit i know that for sure
smoky bluff
🤔
shell inlet
@strange python while I kind of like the changes and agree rogues are in a good spot (not broken) here - wouldn't you say they feel a bit weak mythic gear? I mean in the many years I've played wow I don't recall struggling to kill normal world quest mobs lol
strange python
that's less of a rogue problem and more of a 120 stat scaling problem
shell inlet
Ah I see
shell inlet
Yeah I am around 294 so undergeared, just trying to knock out some WQs so I can get enough ilevel for mythics
thorny maple
I haven't had issues as outlaw
charred moat
Leeching poison might help you
royal patrol
Just started leveling. But what ya feel is the strongest specc on bosses so far?
strange python
the one you are best at playing.
shell inlet
Yeah, maybe leeching + internal bleeding and crimson temp if I expect a lot of mobs. Been mainly sticking to single target spec
At least until I can get some heroics in lol
charred moat
Dont fall for the tempest meme, ruptures much more fast paced
strange python
can't wait for the tuning pass so all these fotm players can go sub and leave us alone
dire mulch
yeah
thorny maple
Why would the tuning pass make people swap away from sin? Isn't sub already fotm?