@normal forge its the irontide captain's hat
#assassination
ionic hemlock
i think blindside was just a terrible idea tbh if i wanted an execute, i'd play a warrior ;p haha
tidal sapphire
whats the best wep enchant?
civic palm
Take your top stat weight enchants.
ionic hemlock
I have forgotten about enchants, where do we get them now enchanters still?
ionic hemlock
It hasn't been that long but it sure feels like a long damn time since I had to worry about weapon enchants lol
civic palm
Yeah
north onyx
civic palm
undone lodge
maybe it's a silly queestion, but what is max ilvl in BFA?
ocean nebula
there was a excel list what to do when u hit 120
cant find it anywhere in the pins or elsewhere :/
civic palm
[English] Medivh's 8.0 BFA Raiders Lexicon
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xHvIxX5TE0ZMYTKBzkaRNFQTJzYQJhhho8KuyK4CB0w/htmlview?sle=true#
safe matrix
ocean nebula
ty
true ingot
Am I the only one finding it impossible to get weapons to drop? I'm 323 with two 277 weapons :L
vestal dune
Yeah, it sucks
calm barn
nope
vestal dune
all mythics with lockout, 323ilvl too 286 green dagger
true ingot
Very frustrating.
vestal dune
And thinking that I still need 2 of them :/
vestal dune
Looking at my dps I don't ;P
true ingot
Assass feels fantastic in dungeons. My one wish is that CT procced Venomous Wounds.
charred moat
so was the harlans loaded dice buffed or nerfed in the hotfix
vestal dune
If ct procced venomous winds it would be sooo broken
true ingot
Probably
vestal dune
wounds*
true ingot
Doesn't stop me wishing it were the case though.
hollow escarp
and I thought shuriken storm is broken
steady ore
Is anyone running toxic blade? I've been running it but I'm not sure how it stacks up to the others
steady ore
Alrighty, cool
frail gate
vestal dune
For aoe it's insane
sage sandal
What % haste should we be aiming for?
true ingot
Lots more than we have.
sage sandal
What are you at currently? Trying to see if I'm just really under, because it really feels like it.
true ingot
11%
that's with most of my gear having haste on it
- a haste gem
and two haste enchants
sage sandal
Yeah, I'm at 7% without gems or enchants, might go do that now
hallow beacon
I'm sitting at 9% and it's pretty agonizing right now.
round harbor
think im bout to be a sadboi and spend $40 on a trinket
only for it to get nerfed before raid comes out
true ingot
You automatically get it when you unlock WQs.
Or if you have the legion one it's upgraded.
pastel wasp
$40?
strange python
THERES A WHISTLE
?
ive had my legion whistle in my bank
that upgraded to a bfa whistle?
royal bronze
yes lol
round harbor
@pastel wasp yeah id have to buy wow tokens and sel them
but i tihnk it might be worth if its bis all the way tyhrough mythic prob
round harbor
it is currently trho
even if its nerfed itll be similar to heroic trinkets
its ~= to heroic Doomwake which is our BiS
round harbor
AH 800k, LESS IN TRADE CAUSE ITS GONNA CRASHG
CAPS
ITLL DROP TO ~450K PROBLY ONCE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE START GRINDING MATS
jesus caps again
round harbor
yeah uldir stuff will get buffed for sure
as is m+ trinkets will be bis without them lol
no point in raiding for 1 piece of gear per boss a week on heroic/mythic when you can endlessly farm m+ for better gear over and over
pastel wasp
prob not worth $40 tho
fiery merlin
I bought for 300k
Granted im on A-52, rather dense. And I'm not talking about the size
and DMF stuff is always really imbalanced early on. It'll be good for uldir and compareable to the first actual tier, but worth dropping gold on a guarantee trinket slot for the next 6 months.
pastel wasp
thats quite cheap
fiery merlin
very. Next week, probably wednesday-friday, they'll hit an all-time low
only to rise again before raids, so people should honestly wait unless they need the ilvls for heroic queues or are inpatient
spiral escarp
Does the darkmoon trinket require upgrades or it comes at 355 right away?
spiral escarp
Oh cool. I’m gonna check it on AH 😃
elfin fossil
Whats the name of the deck?
fiery merlin
fathoms
elfin fossil
Ty
storm eagle
1.2mill for me 😦
scarlet abyss
350k 😄
ionic hemlock
Is the tier chart for dps traits not pinned or am I blindeded
ionic hemlock
azerite
ionic hemlock
ahh bingo, ty lol I was looking for a more specific name of the azerite variety haha
solid nova
No sweat fam
ebon bramble
is the shrouded suffocation bugged?
strange python
Hey i didn't notice pvp talents on the guide what would you guys recommend
civic palm
How would Shrouded Suff. be bugged?
ionic hemlock
where do i go to start the scenarios?
ebon bramble
i just cant wrap around how 394 additional damage to garrote every 2 min could amount to so much added %
if someone can enlighten me with the math, i woudl greatly appreciate it ><
ionic hemlock
2+2= just enjoy it
lol
err., 2+2=kust enjoy it / don't fight it and carry the one to rogue
civic palm
I imagine his interest is how over the course of 5min, do TWO activations amount to "so much damage".
3*
ebon bramble
well i mean its 394 damage
warm parcel
I mean theres no black magic
ebon bramble
my garrote does 7800 right now
394 seems pretty little and only works in stealth
i mean coming out of stealth
unless its not, i dnt knw
warm parcel
Just for some comparison.
Hit the dummy with a garrote
Then swap the azerite piece and do another single garrote from stealth
ionic hemlock
just wait until you use nightstalker, that will make your brain implode lol
warm parcel
And obviously look at the combat log
civic palm
haha Nightstalker... not even once.
ionic hemlock
i am so on board with night stalker right now
civic palm
uhhuh
ionic hemlock
my rare just fell through the world
civic palm
😦
sinful parcel
Is the Icy Vains guide ok for Sin spec?
civic palm
I would recommend the one linked at the top of this channel.
sinful parcel
Ok cool, thank you
Also this is not really a thing to ask here, but are the Battle Pot Agi going to be the new pre pot/
vernal sinew
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/39aeWmdx8zCrgfa1s4exPX
What Mean haste 1.05? Manni need another 1 percent in haste to cap?
solid nova
The breakdown is explained by the *
vernal sinew
@solid nova Yes i see the * down, But , why the * is on The weapon dps
civic palm
It's an example.
vernal sinew
U Mean, if 1 Point on haste incremento damage of 7.89?
civic palm
👋
ebon bramble
how is assassination doign so far for you guys in heroics and mythics?
zealous dew
i really don't like it
civic palm
Will come back to it at 20% haste O _O
junior gorge
I hate it at the moment @zealous dew but i'm sure it will become beasty again with better stats/haste
zealous dew
haste in dungeons ?
junior gorge
Still a st beast, but feels super slow
bright sand
vers?
civic palm
VERS I believe.
junior gorge
Yeah you might be right, think crit was the best for mt?
junior gorge
True :P
spring lantern
I just got a second Shrouded Suffocation 😄
zealous dew
phat garrote dmg
strange python
which weapon enchants yall running?
simple prawn
Morning, anyone got their hopes up that assa will be in a good shape? for me it just feels really odd with the low energy reg we got 😦
sharp wren
So 20% haste is the goal?
solid nova
Your % of stats you need will depend on your stat weights.
There isnt a magic number to aim for
sharp wren
Ah. I c
safe matrix
well there is a magic number
infinite
but since you only have so many stats, allocate them according to weight
zealous dew
Dustvar map is so lame
zealous dew
doesn anyone play alliance at all ?
civic palm
Pardon?
civic palm
I do believe Alliance got the better leveling zones this go around > _>
opaque tree
over horde
civic palm
Stormsong is probably Blizzards' best zone design minus the Kraul place.
Also Alliance Capitol >>>>>>>>>>>> Horde Capitol
safe matrix
I remember I hated questing there
royal bronze
Are you guys still running CT in dungeons?
I feel like I'm struggling to proc it
Using Poison Bomb atm
solid nova
Proc CT? You just need CPs.
royal bronze
Energy starved
Sorry
Struggling to press the button, I suppose lol
I find maintaining ruptures and garrotes is all my energy currently with such little haste
I have a friend running Venom Rush and CT and he say's its better
solid nova
Both CT and Envenom require the same amount of energy to use dont they?
royal bronze
but I don't trust that LO
solid nova
So if you can PB, you can CT 😄
civic palm
uhhuh
solid nova
Rupture is only 10 energy less
safe matrix
Plus you should be getting all the energy returns from bleeds/poisons
civic palm
How many targets?
royal bronze
So my pre-patch opener would be: Garrote 3 targets, CT, FoK, Rup, FoK, CT
Because Mantle and the haste made it awesome
But I'm finding on Mythic's I'm strugglign so much for energy
Like
I'll open with 3 target garrote with Sub buff, then I'll rup one
Then fok and get 2-3 CP max, and CT
And if I FoK again, I'll find myself no energy\
So then I reapply a ruptuire
civic palm
Do you have any Shrouded Strangler?
royal bronze
No I don't not atm
civic palm
mmm
royal bronze
All my Azerite gear is 325 and I have 2x Rezan's and Filthy Transfusion
I got fairly unlucky with traits
Everything was bottom tier af
I've found myself performing better with PB but it might just be the "feel" and it's very hard to tell what actually pulls ahead
civic palm
Yerp.
warm parcel
Needs 3-4 targets and time to get rolling
civic palm
I was like, let's do some WQ as SIN.
bright sand
so only one dagger drops in the whole raid for us? with no haste....
civic palm
NOPE
warm parcel
And even then low crit just shits on you regardless
royal bronze
Yeah that's how I feel too
Especially without mantle and stuff
Maybe it spec re-roll time
I was LOVING pre-patch assasination too
I'm basically always Energy starved with the Muti cost and even FoK without the crits from mantle opener makes energy usage and CT feel sooooo weak
civic palm
Just remember that CT does monstrous damage.
royal bronze
Yeah I'll have to try it out again
warm parcel
I honestly felt better without ct
royal bronze
^^ That's how I'm feeling now too
civic palm
Yeah the numbers show it doing better but in practice, hrmmm.
civic palm
Yeah
warm parcel
Idno. Maybe pb will still be good
Cause fok hits like a truck now
Just pick one fok trait
royal bronze
PB feels good but CT is so much
civic palm
For now possibly. If the SIMs have a practical application CT runs away with things.
royal bronze
On 4+ targets, CT feels insane but I feel like I'm keeping up with the other rogue in my guild
In mythic 0
On 1-3 targets
And obviously pulling ahead on 1
warm parcel
Its also that m+ has some trash you dont wanna kill
And instead feed into your main target
civic palm
That's also with Deeper Strat. which makes me want to never play this game ever again.
So I dunno.
warm parcel
Also using kidney to disable lessens ct even further imo
civic palm
True, M+ shifts priorities around.
warm parcel
Prey of course
royal bronze
Iron wire isn't awful but yeah
warm parcel
Wonder what our boi seli thinks
civic palm
Depends.
warm parcel
Also ds vs vig
warm parcel
Vigor becomes useless when you have like 30 seconds of 5 targets was it
Iirc
So even vigor >>> ds in m+ imo
zealous dew
equipping artifact fishing rod = removes DP lol
civic palm
Sure does.
Vigor is like 2-3% behind, might be worth it due to how different M+ can be
warm parcel
warm parcel
Then get ganked with rod in hand no poisons
civic palm
fffffffffff
warm parcel
♿
royal bronze
Guys is it time to reroll specs 😦
warm parcel
Now I just need a few more traits to really get to test them
Fok ones amazing one piece for the range
Agi one should scale nice for obvious reasons
Garr one could be good for 24/7 stealthing
Prolly is actually 
warm parcel
Well
The sim never gets to restealth
And rup one needs ramp up
SS should crush it in actual 5 mans
civic palm
Yeah.
warm parcel
Even the practicality of always ending up with max cp from 3 garrotes
Gives you an instant ks if need be
civic palm
You can still gar ct gar gar etc. if you wanna.
warm parcel
Yeah but then you lose one emp garr
civic palm
Given # of targets it might be worth it, at some point (239123 mobs).
solid nova
Seli is doing m0s today and streaming it iirc
solid nova
I was watching him for a bit yesterday, numbers looked 👌🏼
royal bronze
Thanks Richard 😃
fiery merlin
Sin isn't bad but its hard to argue sub is just better for big pulls/the type of pulls out atm
shouldn't have an issue if youre 305+ with any spec tho
civic palm
SIN crushes the shit out of SUB in sustained AoE though, even at 3 targets.
SUB is just very very good at target selection and it's going to make them better for M+ this season.
and cleave, SUB wrecks that as well.
royal bronze
By the looks of Seli's VOD today he's running Exsang
Don't think he's talented into CT either so must be PB
civic palm
Again, target selection is important, and if SIN wants to compete with SUB you're gonna need EX to burst a target as well as you can.
lavish venture
anyone else here using master assassin as the go to instead of subterfuge?
rustic plume
me
lavish venture
yea all my sims are showing that master assassin outperforms sub, but all the guides say sub is supposed to be better so was just wondering if anyone else did testing
solid nova
The guide also says "You may choose one over another based on preference, simulation result, or a different encounter you are facing."
There is always a generic template but you'll only get accurate results from simming.
If MA sims highest for you, then that's correct
May change at a later point
rustic plume
anyone know what the minimum haste we should try to get?
solid nova
There is no magic number, it's best to follow your stat weights.
If haste is simming highest, keep going.
solid nova
I do work a full time job, so i'm not always looking at discord.
Ilvl vs trait can be simmed.
prisma gull
How dare you Richard?!
warm parcel
lone junco
You'll have to check the sample action list. If that is just one Ct. or multiple.
When I was messing with the apl I raised the Ct refresh time to like 8sec so it would recast.
And zero ruptures.
thorn crater
what i meant to say is having a higher ilvl item with no azerite power at all
if its 40 ilvls
sims says its not worth it
i dont have the azerite power to unlock it
lone junco
At 115 orange shoulders were 15-20% better than azerite shoulders.
Which was obvious.
lone junco
Sim is a simple agi. Vs lower agi plus the traits.
Just use the top gear tool and select both
devout jolt
Sorry to bother you all but with Shrouded Suffocation, is the damage per tick or just outright on opening?
rustic plume
sorry noob here, how do you sim the azerite traits?
zealous dew
you can easily check by trying on dummy with a piece of strangler vs no strangler
devout jolt
just bored at work atm so planning shit but will do that this evening.
marble hemlock
@royal bronze you wanna play HB for dungeons right now
you dont have the cp generation to really utilize CT, and PB is just garbage
you can play exsang or TB, doesnt really matter, exsang just feels a bit better due to the additional energy regen while you ramp up the ruptures
and @warm parcel im currently running triple scent for dungeons, feels amazing to get 1.5k agi with 6 ruptures running
lone junco
talk about a flop of the meta
bronze spindle
gimme those traits 😦
marble hemlock
i generally go triple garrote into rupture, exsang that target for more energy, and then 2-4cp rupture the remaining mobs
lone junco
i expected that losing T21 would suck though
lone junco
ive been leveling as outlaw but starting to collect sin traits as i get closer to 120 😦
marble hemlock
fok has a pretty high AP scaling right now, so with scent and the occasional HB buff it carries the aoe-damage now
lone junco
waking up at 5am is murdering my game time.
bronze spindle
What about leveling Seli, is HB still better?
marble hemlock
i was leveling with CT and 4pc t20
i swapped into azerite stuff and HB once the legenadries stopped working and the ilvl difference became too big
lone junco
❤
bronze spindle
I'll look into it, but thank you 😃
marble hemlock
so at 116 i went into HB instead
wicked plover
so u think hb is to go for dungeons and m0 atm
marble hemlock
as it stands right now, definitely
you cant really afford to spend CP on CT right now
rustic plume
are you using all 3 azerite gear with shrouded suffoc?
lone junco
rupture all the things
lone junco
1-2cp each right?
marble hemlock
and you have 4k base agi with ~315 gear
lone junco
just to ramp
marble hemlock
so thats a significant boost
rustic plume
mm i see
marble hemlock
2-3 cp mostly
rustic plume
guess i hunt down the gear with scent
marble hemlock
cant really afford to spam fok 3 times and then finish
lone junco
well. yeah. garrot mut. or mut.
marble hemlock
with our current gear we just dont have enough crit to generate the CP wed need for either CT or long-duration ruptures
8mobs, fok twice, 3CP
FeelsBadMan
lone junco
74% mut crit
marble hemlock
to the 18-20% we have now
lone junco
ANDDD
they took away anti, which was a smoothing tool for uptimes.
whatever
I just hope to do the M0 by monday.
when does m+ open?
marble hemlock
the weird thing about assa is that it doesnt feel like youre doing damage
and then you look at the details at the end of the dungeon and youre sitting at 9k overall
and you ask yourself "did i really do that?"
lone junco
thats fun.
I always felt that way with the 4p20. like "Reaalllyy"
garrote x3 rupture exang.
wicked plover
yeah there are moments when i want to go to outlaw or sub, cuz assin feels so weird but the dmg is there
marble hemlock
well, with the t20+subt you could atleast see why it dealt so much damage
wicked plover
and the energy starving fml
marble hemlock
right now i just think that fok scales too well
lone junco
white dmg king for a bit
marble hemlock
20.5% AP scaling is a bit too high when we can boost our agi as much as we can with triple scent
lone junco
the 5x rupture buff will destroy the current trinket stack
marble hemlock
right now im thinking that 2scent1suffocation might be the way to go
vague patrol
how is sin looking relative to sub and outlaw for m0s etc?
lone junco
Sin just turned into the combo. "ok 5x ruptures are up. pull the boss. Vanish garrote mut mut rupture exang trinket"
thorn crater
what trinket
lone junco
was a joke
thorn crater
😛
lone junco
but not really
thorn crater
obvi
lone junco
the current trinket stack doesnt account for that level of agi buffing
marble hemlock
im expecting a nerf to scent
youre not supposed to have close to 6k agi with ilvl 330
lone junco
I enjoy the outlaw currently, but want that snare for M+
knotty dew
when using subterfuge, there is no such thing anymore as vanish to increase dps right? unless you want to apply garrote to 3-4 targets again?
thorn crater
how can anyone enjoy rtb man i dont get it
lone junco
you have a feel for the defensives yet? vamp vs prydaz?
marble hemlock
i feel like im a dad-spec boomy right now, being able to pull sustained aoe that noone can compete with
lone junco
just replace rtb with snd icon. the least of my concerns.
I AM DAD
that sounds like a good meta
marble hemlock
cause after 40sec of fighting a bigger pack, youre still at 15k+
while a DH or mage start out higher than that, once their CDs run out they drop quite a bit, and you just keep going
lone junco
well.. you gotta pull big enough to get up the ruptures then.
thorn crater
sccent is that strong huh
and what do u do for ST then seli?
just no PB?
and everything the same
?
marble hemlock
cant really say much about the defensive ones, cause all my azerite pieces need heart at 16+ for the defensive traits, which i just got this morning 😄
spring zephyr
Feeling like ASS got nerfed a fair bit what you guys think, or u think cause shitty stats?
marble hemlock
spec kinda sucks for ST
just regular rotation
keep up garrote/rupture
pop vendetta+trinket+exsang/tb
spring zephyr
Ye
lone junco
seems good man.
marble hemlock
got a serious skystep/gunshoe addiction
spring zephyr
like it
lone junco
have you run with comparable outlaw?
spring zephyr
ut like it?
marble hemlock
started with like 400skystep, theyre all gone now
spring zephyr
Im running the same talents/rotation from legion to bfas
so i dont know if much has changed
marble hemlock
nah, havent really gotten a chance to see how other rogues perform
only saw tisu in their m0s yday, and while he is pretty damn good, hes no m+ rogue
lone junco
no disrepec
marble hemlock
from what ive seen, most subs were clocking in like 6.5k-7.5k overall
lone junco
for sure. our raid content is so low on the enrage curves, M+ is my only hard spot
9k king.
keep your head down. dont get me nerfed before i get to play
marble hemlock
well, tisu/muscle were hitting ~7k, bit over or under depending on dungeon
marble hemlock
could take a look at ciras or herudras vods to see how ashine did, but thats too much effort :<
lone junco
do you save the vendetta exsang for the infest or prio mobs?
ofc there are no affixes yet.
marble hemlock
but hitting 8-9k in HC where mobs usually die a bit too quickly for my tastes, im pretty confident that assa might be able to compete
lone junco
dad spec inc.
marble hemlock
well, i usually go triple garrote into rupture into exsang to jumpstart the energy gain and be able to spam fok every gcd
vendetta aswell if its a high prio mob
lone junco
in all my exsang time, I never thought about E return due to tick rates on poisoned mobs
then again 2p4p didnt need E.
marble hemlock
sometimes you go triple garrote, fok fok, and none of those 3 targets have DP up
which is a feelsbad moment
at that point i just pop vendetta on something just for the energy :x
lone junco
in my cleave sim, it showed that env weave was a gain.
but that stuff will iron out soon enough.
marble hemlock
yeah, it might be worth
i usually start weaving in envenom once i can spam fok
and youre only on maintain-patrol for your ruptures
lone junco
still vig for sure right?
marble hemlock
yeah
lone junco
ds buffs rupture not the agi or white for fok
marble hemlock
you need the max energy to be able to triple garrote and not be starved immediately
lone junco
top profile is what Garrote/fok
we arent 4p20 anymore, so i have no clue where garrote will land
lone junco
so weird
marble hemlock
definitely
lone junco
feels like. crit top then.
haste dumpster
but at 22% the rotation is built around no crits.
w/e. gotta work i guess you wont stream M0, since you are done with them
lone junco
neat
thorn crater
whats ur ilvl seli?
thorn crater
without doing any mythics?
marble hemlock
ye
thorn crater
jeez 😛
so u think i should keep a 300 head piece with a trait on it over a 340 piece tahts blank?
cause it needs azerite 18?
marble hemlock
no idea tbh
probably better to use the 340 tho
since itll have like 80-100 more agi
thorn crater
frankly i have 320 after mythics (got double drop on 3 slots in drops feelsbadman) bu i cant seem to do more than 6-7k on aoe
marble hemlock
hm, hard to say what the issue might be
thorn crater
but im using pb
and toxic
exsa seems stronger now with worse gear huh?
and low stats i mean
marble hemlock
dps wise i think its pretty much the same, TB has more value on bosses, exsang more on trash
for me its just a gameplay-feel thing, which obviously ties into dps at the end of the day
thorn crater
should have been the other way tbh XD
marble hemlock
having exsang on every pack or every second pack helps jumpstart your aoe
thorn crater
ill give the fok build a shot
marble hemlock
since your maingoal is to be able to utilize the 1sec gcd
and with our shit energy regen thats not the case until you hit 4-5 ruptures
so anything that facilitates hitting that spot sooner is helpful, and exsang does something towards that goal, tb doesnt
thorn crater
thank you for the input man
sadly i have one dagger in the back oneo shrouded and one scent
as traits
so no stacking for me
marble hemlock
i got pretty lucky on the scents yday, had 2ss1scent when i started, did like 7 or 8 heroics and had triple scent after
thorn crater
its just said i have double 340 shoulder with no traits, double 345 pants with no crit on either and double pants with vers on both :/
sad*
marble hemlock
im sitting at ~18% crit right now i think?
thorn crater
22 crit 10 haste 28 mast
marble hemlock
thankfully we had the crit-on-use trinket WQ twice already, that one is pretty great
marble hemlock
havent gotten any dungeon-trinkets yet
running the haste-proc one from the emissary and the WQ one with crit on use
hopefully ill get a bit more lucky in m0 today
marble hemlock
2x325
warm parcel
I like where youre coming from
And HB might actually make up for itself when it loads during bosses
But Im still inclined to just write hb off as garbage
warm parcel
Gonna give it a shot
marble hemlock
the best option right now
since our CP generation is just way too garbage tier for CT to be usable
warm parcel
What about one fok power tho
marble hemlock
once we get more crit and generate a lot more CP on any given aoe fight, CT becomes stronger and HB falls off
warm parcel
Fok already does good dmg and range is super nice for 5 mans
marble hemlock
havent had a chance to test it yet
warm parcel
It feels amazing
Foking some low hp boss adds that are miles away
Also CT might never reach that poiny
warm parcel
Some quick maffs were that CT is only slightly ahead in the conditions you wanna use it in
So given low prio adds, wanting to feed off aoe into prio
I think CT could just become obsolete
Fok rup and garr themselves are doing so much work
thorn crater
btw seli the 7k i was saying before was on mythic not on hcs. on hcs im around 10-11
with ST bosses going to around 9
marble hemlock
yeah, ill be interested to see how much i can pull in mythics, since you usually pull a bit smaller meaning less value out of fok
limber lion
Idk I'm using CT and on 3 targets sitting at 12k dps just refreshing ct, rupture and garrote. Rarely get to use envenom's while all 3 targets are up.
limber lion
Mythic.
thorn crater
what traits?
limber lion
Subterfuge 3 garrotes, ct, apply 3 ruptures, ct again and keep them up.
Don't know, works well for me.
thorn crater
what do u use for CP generator
limber lion
Honestly haven't used HB after hitting 116, might give it a gon
thorn crater
muti or fok
limber lion
Fok
thorn crater
so 1-2 CP rup?
limber lion
At the beginning, yes
Extend them once everyone is under garrote/ct/rupture
Just to get the energy flowing
thorn crater
sound too tiresome
to have another spender in need of use
plus DP might not apply
trash poison that it is 😛
limber lion
The thing is that if the fights are shorter, it's not as effective
ocean nebula
seli jetzt unstable ccatalyst or scent of blood?
limber lion
On hc wouldn't work as well I reckon
thorn crater
well im doing my mythics with a dh and a mage
so its not gonna work ther as well 😛
assholes have too much aoe burst
btw another expa that dh feels broken at start
btw how good is fathoms deck
is it worth the purchase?
limber lion
I'm personally against buying any sort of gear, but if you have the money, go for it.
wheat zealot
I think it is, bought one for 500k
limber lion
It'll be rendered useless once uldir cones out
wheat zealot
Wont replace it until you get 2 370+ mythic uldir trinks
lone junco
@marble hemlock when you did heroic, the snake room pull with the glass eye, would you just save your fok stack for once the tank has them all? since you dont have CT to spam
watched an outlaw do that and they spiked to near 100k dps
but that was just blade flurry/blade rush
young oxide
is 9,7k good st sim as assa?
lone junco
in a +10
marble hemlock
we screwed that up pretty badly
hasty epoch
We got a rogue spec/gear spreadsheet avail yet?
marble hemlock
and had like a 2min consecutive fight
trying to get the eyes to the skull 😄
so there was no plan around that
lone junco
when I saw it the prot pally just sprint through tagging then hooked a pillar into a frost orb, then got Bro gripped by the priest
marble hemlock
but i dont think we can compete on burst aoe
lone junco
was amazing.
but anyway. lagged to 1fps.
so if that pull matters in that zone, a single crit fok might be nice. I was expecting to run CT, so it puts a wrinkle in my plans
marble hemlock
we will probably get a chance to try it later, ill let you know how it went 😉
royal bronze
Hey Seli was watching the VOD of your stream,
Still reckon Exsang + HB is best for M0
?
marble hemlock
right now i think that might be the go-to choice of talents, yeah
lone junco
you wont stream the m0 then?
marble hemlock
will do
thorn crater
link ur stream? 😛
marble hemlock
^^
royal bronze
It feels better than anything else I've done so far
marble hemlock
and baseline assa does feel pretty bad right now
royal bronze
CT felt like complete shit, PB felt like underwhelming
marble hemlock
yup
marble hemlock
even a fully stacked HB fok doesnt do enough damage to give you this "wow" moment you have as a sub or combat rogue
thorn crater
means we stealth through nerfs
royal bronze
On ST would opener be: Gar>Mute>Rup>Fok>Vend>Exsang?
Refresh dots?
And yeah I know Seli I agree
But it's still better
lone junco
outlaw gets secondaries from RTB, so it feels good enough to start
marble hemlock
sub still gets the
"press a button, something awesome happens" feeling
the problem with assa is that theres no feedback to what youre doing
since all of your damage is autohits, poisons, dot
lone junco
ive enjoyed PVP talents on outlaw though. I use dfa for the fun
cosmic prism
whats the rough dps ranking of rogue rn, just got rejected from a dungeon group for not being outlaw 
lone junco
it is pretty hilarious that sin stat weights for ST will be like 50% haste. but for M+ not even close to that
marble hemlock
i think thats gonne be one of the bigger issues actually
royal bronze
I feel super under energized on Assasination, with missing the Mantle and haste
Like super super
safe matrix
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
royal bronze
I'm at 322 ilvl, 16 HoA, and only 10.01% haste
My damage is decent but underwhelming
thorn crater
how did u get 16???
royal bronze
Like
lone junco
ill catch up in a year.
thorn crater
tbh im going outlaw loot role on every boss that drops a slow main hand
thorn crater
at least u know for the prison mythic+ that rogues will always be welcome
cause of the door unlocking
so we have a chance to get decent daggers
warm parcel
Or a scribe
thorn crater
tol dagor is the name right
thorn crater
jc can open gates?
lone junco
there are scrolls
cosmic prism
whats a 'slow' main hand?
clear nexus
What is the stat priority for assassination
solid nova
Pins
old hamlet
how many haste should the assassination rogue have
wheat zealot
old hamlet
wow salty
solid nova
There is no magic number to aim for, just follow your stat weights
old hamlet
thanks richard
shut hull
It’s a sad day looking at your stats and seeing 4% haste
old hamlet
thanks m8
still pewter
Does anyone know how to get into seige of boralus
Or was it bugged first day or something
royal lantern
i think you cant do that dungeon yet
quartz ember
i thought shrouded suffocation stacked..? i noticed my garrote ticked the same amount with one trait vs 2
still pewter
First
royal bronze
Ty
steady wharf
Mastery sims higher for me than versatility
lone junco
@royal bronze Literally use this tool. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear
use the simc addon then pick all 3 daggers.
that is the only answer
or you can blindly guess
@quartz ember are you looking that the initial subterfuge garrotes, or later in the pull?
mossy hazel
Hey, what's the deal with the noxxic dps rankings chart, Sin is ranked 12th for ST, and 2 for 3+ targets. That legit right now?
I mean I know they aren't like GODS WORD or anything
But I always thought they were a decent representation
shut bone
3 targets is really nice if they live long enough
limpid perch
dumb question: you only need one dagger for mutilate to work?
or do you need two daggers
mossy hazel
Yea I mean I can see how sin's solid there with subterfuge and multi rupture, it's more the Single target that's throwing me
You need 2 daggers for Mut
shut bone
you need two
mossy hazel
It specifically says "Attacks with both daggers"
limpid perch
says both weapons
shut bone
if u unequip on right now it will show you red text
limpid perch
not both daggers
mossy hazel
But pretty sure it says "requires daggers" doesn't it? (Used to at least)
night cypress
So blizz cracked down on FoK being sick dps tool and then makes a big ol talent for it?
shut bone
only says requires daggers if you dont have them equipt
mossy hazel
100% positive; 2 daggers
limpid perch
tyvm
for dealing with that stupid
i just wanted to be sure since it didnt specifically say 😃
shut bone
think its just blizz's way of cleaning up tooltips
mossy hazel
If you want to talk about stupid, I accidentally equipped a sword at some point yesterday and couldn't figure out why I couldnt' attack while chasing an alli bounty...
limpid perch
lol!
ok so I took off daggers
and yes
once unequip then it says requires daggers
pulsar bluff
where can i find the best azerite talents sim ? there are many site, not the same results
i checked in every chan , subchan here, cant find
lone junco
depends on St or cleave
shut coral
Anyone had a go at using Landoi's Scrutiny trinket, can't find much anywhere, anyone had a go at it?
lone junco
it is listed as "meh" on the charts for sin
shut coral
darn it.
pine grove
Where's the best trinket chart for sin? I'd like to do some homework.
acoustic hill
i know fathoms is BiS atm
shut bone
it has to be getting nerfed though
acoustic hill
i have a website link for the trink ranks but idk if im allowed to post links
solid nova
Links for trinket sims are pinned.
acoustic hill
ahh nbm
pine grove
Wow. The DM card is simming very well. The same site lists 3 Shrouded Suffocation at the top. Is that for ST too, or just cleave?
warm parcel
It says right there
pine grove
Really? I can't see it. I must be more tired than I thought.
OH, there we go. The buttons at the bottom. So it's best for ST and 3rd for cleave. I really thought TtK would be better at ST. Colour me educated.
charred moat
if they nerf this the darkmoon trinket people are going to be pretty upset about the gold they lost
shut bone
I know! am holding off. for now
ornate aspen
Sin still doing okay at 120?
mossy hazel
I prefer doing blow up single target damage, that doesn't seem to be Sin anymore. Anyone else feeling that?
It's nice doing good aoe, but I really hate just spamming FoK all the time
charred moat
i guess you can single target with poison bomb
ornate aspen
I like the sin aoe style, but I do miss KB for ST :/
mossy hazel
Is MA viable at all for M+? I just hit 116 and lost use of my leggo shoulder buff and I'm desperately missing that amazing burst...
charred moat
subterfuge garrote spam seems too good for me
ocean nebula
i got a 340 chest but dont have the lvl for the first azerite trait still better to use it now?
or wait till i get the first trait unlocked?
pine grove
Anyone know what would be the cause of the disparity between the sims on bloodmallet and the ones on Wowhead putting TtK above SS for traits?
zealous sable
My guess is that it either doesn't use Subterfuge or it doesn't account for reapplication through vanish
Or well if it is pure single target Subterfuge wouldn't matter
strange python
TtK was top at first, wowhead's are probably outdated
wicked plover
i scrolled a little what u guys talkign about a slow offhand?=
wicked plover
I NEED weapons...they wont drop
btw running 2x Fan of Blades azerite and Hidden blades talent...sweet aoe child
vernal adder
what is your azerite lvl?
wicked plover
14 u can see on picture
vernal adder
oh right, im tired
pine grove
Ah, thanks. Pardon another ignorant question, but what exactly makes SS better than TtK? Comparing two traits from the same ilvl, I get 394 extra damage from a stealth Garrote and 428/535 from a 4/5 CP Envenom. Given the much greater number of Envenoms relative to stealthed Garrotes you can get in a fight, what makes SS so strong? Are the two CPs worth that much more than the extra second of buff time? Does haste/Subterfuge amplify the damage from SS quite significantly? Is the Envenom damage bonus only on a crit? Again, I apologise if this is a very stupid question. I just feel like I'm missing something when it comes to these two traits.
strange python
This is a good question
wicked plover
that's to deep question for me who just rerolled to rogue after playing since cata mage
sorry
lean coral
thorn crater
@pine grove i can only guess that it works together with subterfuge and the entire thing gets amplified. also i think the amplification happens after the dmg is added to base garrote which would make it stronger. finally i think that the envenom bonus dmg stacks but not the crit hence why the garrote traits are better
ofc that is just an assumption
but it is a valid question since envenom is the highest dmg output
on ST
lone junco
@pine grove you can also triple garrote with subterfuge.
thorn crater
thats irrelevant on ST though
lone junco
And haste buffs garrote not env. And low mastery keeps env shit.
But that's why we have sims to see numbers in pretty pie charts.
thorn crater
so basically gear is not good enoguh yet to give prio to mastery over crit and make envenom better
lone junco
You can check the HTML output to see what is scaling better.
pine grove
Oh no, I wasn't doubting the sims. I just like to know the how behind things as on paper, it initially appears that TtK should hold its own on ST.
thorn crater
tbh the dagger one should be better since it scales with both right?
thgats what i dont rly get
lone junco
I get it. Probably has to do with finishes per minute on env. Vs the subterfuge garrotes.
Without 4p21 and low Mut crit the cp/min really tanks.
Don't need crit to vanish garrote.
But it's always easier to interpret sim outcomes than to predict them.
pine grove
Yeah, that's true. We're always so clunky and slow at the start of an expansion.
lone junco
If you want to play with it, you can override stats and give yourself 40% crit and see if the env slides up over garrote trait.
The HTML link has all the good stuff in it.
@solid nova postcountrising
Finally have some numbers to talk about. 🤓
strange python
This is so unplayable lol,where do i get some god damn haste
lofty sand
Do we have any pickpocket quest/mechanics this time around?
strange python
i dont want to upgrade anymore im just losing haste everywhere
primal lance
I haven’t been able to level much since bfa came out. Why is haste so highly needed for assassin but all the gear you guys talk about seems like it has very little haste?
hoary copper
haste affects bleeds
clever vapor
Hey guys, is haste gonna make my rotation smoother? It feels like I'm always out of energy since they took the energy regen from vendetta and the traits and I don't enjoy it at all.
strange python
Haste will make everything a lot smoother
glossy galleon
does ss stack if i have 2 tho?
strange python
damage yes
glossy galleon
ok
strange python
cp no
glossy galleon
is 3ss still better than other stuff tho?
glossy galleon
thats weird and uncomfortable
primal lance
I’m understand haste makes bleeds tick more. I’m saying why is the game changing to that but all the gear you guys are getting has no haste on it
glossy galleon
i figured the cp bonus ws one of the biggest players there
primal lance
Since I’ve hardly leveled I still have a lot of haste Crit and mastery without tier 21 sets or anything and I don’t struggle with energy. Should I expect to lose a lot of haste when I get new bfa gear?
glossy galleon
what about ditb? how does that stack?
primal lance
Why doesn’t rogue gear have haste like the game says we need now
scarlet dock
Hi guys i'am new here , and i'am little noobi on rogue but i want learn ^^
i know my english is not very good so i am looking for someone for some advice if possible french ^^
thx a lot
wanton depot
weird question but does anyone know where I can get some not terrible daggers? Mine are like 280 and are holding me back from heroic ques
strange python
dungeons? world quests?
glossy galleon
auction house has some 300-310 ones
strange python
dunno what to say
glossy galleon
to get you started
wanton depot
was looking for a quick-fix @strange python thanks @glossy galleon ill check
glossy galleon
its too bad sin is so bad for dungeons
halcyon glacier
? I've been having a great time once I got up to ~315
glossy galleon
well outlaw is just so much better for less work
you can literally 1 shot a trash pack in heroics at like ~315
halcyon glacier
idk i was seeing pretty similar numbers
glossy galleon
how much were you doing in outlaw on the average trash pack?
halcyon glacier
~9k dps
glossy galleon
oh
halcyon glacier
i mean it has better burst with KS/blade flurry
glossy galleon
yeah
thats how you should be running it in dungeons xD
im doing like 15k on trash packs without ks
and 30k with it
at 310 ilvl
no way im i going to do that much as sin
halcyon glacier
i wanna call BS lol, that is too much (though we should be talking about this in #outlaw )
glossy galleon
well my concern is more about how bad sin is by comparison 😛
its jsut not bursty enough
because like 3-4 boss targets and sin is incredibly close to outlaw, just when the mobs die sin has to start all over again every pack
whereas outlaw just hits bf and wins
halcyon glacier
only thing I don't like for sin is how toxic blade feels like minimal burst, and by taking crimson tempest over PB it's useless on bosses
glossy galleon
yeh
its in a really sad spot for aoe right now
and single target feels kinda bad because pb is a cancer that must be removed
like the numbers are good
pb just makes me want to quit xD
strange python
huh? poison bomb maybe does 4% of your dps at best.
halcyon glacier
crimson tempest just needs a buff where if it only hits one target the bleed is doubled or something. some way to make it compete for single target
strange python
???
glossy galleon
why tf did they think a proc ability that literally everyone hated would be a good talent?
idc how much of your damage it is
strange python
every spec has some rng element to it
People hated it in legion because it did too much damage for how random it was
glossy galleon
eh
halcyon glacier
rng is fine and fun but it's just random extra dmg that doesn't alter the rotation or anything
strange python
Now the damage it does is most irrelevant.
strange python
"its bad" is quite the compelling argument
glossy galleon
"its irrelevant" is a good one too
strange python
I didn't even say that 🤔
crimson turtle
Guys, is there any other site than ravenholdt.net which I could use to prepare myself for mythic raiding? I’m trying to find as many sources I can to improve my playing
glossy galleon
ok i believe you please stop
halcyon glacier
@crimson turtle try custom simming yourself without bloodlust (so you dont have to wait 10 mins between tries) and other buffs, and try matching that on a target dummy for 5 mins
once you can consistently do your simmed dps that's a good start
crimson turtle
I mean I know icy veins and all that stuff but I recently in my country’s WoW community that it has some flaws and isn’t suitable for mythic raiding
I recently heard*
strange python
icy veins quality depends on the author
the assassination rogue author is from here so it's trustworthy for now
halcyon glacier
should be fine with ravenholdt. once raids open just compare your logs on warcraftlogs and post here if need help
strange python
also depends on how frequently it is updated
crimson turtle
@halcyon glacier @strange python thanks a lot guys! And can I use those simming links from pinned post here on Discord?
crimson turtle
Yes yes exactly that 😄