but if blizz changed sth they whined till they got it reverted
#assassination
weak tangle
hi anyone know why only 1 dot is displaying at a time on enemies? https://imgur.com/a/R3Uxx5Q
verbal root
You applied only one dot?
exotic glen
idk i guess i just found it funny because i have never seen it before
hoary copper
The PR I think are kinda done, They were rerun since yesterday's changes
enhance number 1 PR spec
plucky patio
Blizz has their own internal sim tool that is miles better than what we've been able to do with simc. They have mentioned it a few times a few years back. Not to mention that they have access to the DPS/Logs of every single player actually doing the content
thorn crater
enha strong? dafuck XD
gusty elm
anyone has a reccomended ui/weak auras thing they use for sin rogue
exotic glen
check the pins
solid nova
It's a Weak Aura
gusty elm
mate i already asked wtf they were in off topic i got no clue
silk sundial
Those aren't key binds. Weak Aura is used to track cooldowns, debuffs and procs and more
solid nova
^ It's just hidden.
verbal root
keybind all your abilities and hide action bars to make more space
hoary copper
Once you know where things are you dont need to see unless you're a clicker like @dire spoke
strange python
and a dirty cheater like zempai
dire spoke
north terrace
is the simc profile updated for the subt nerf?
strange python
nightly, probably
exotic glen
nightly probably is ya
north terrace
Or... I guess my actual question is, has the change even actually gone into game? Tooltip still says 100%
royal lantern
the subt nerf is pvp only.....
north terrace
I thought that one was everywhere
wise frigate
Yeah there was no indication that the 100% to 80% was PvP only.
zealous lily
that one is universal the pvp to the ground thing is different
wise frigate
Tooltips also aren't always instantly updated.
civic palm
Correct, tooltips can only be updated with a client update IIRC.
Whereas the backend spell data is done in a hotfix.
north terrace
Yeah, the one for subt from 100-80 just says everywhere
Or well.. it doesn't say PvP only
royal lantern
didnt it said XY against players in the bluepost?
exotic glen
no reason to do it when bfa launch is a few days away anyways
north terrace
Not for the subt
For the other stuff it did
Like the toxic blade damage increase, vendetta damage increase, etc
Those all specifically said in PvP situations
royal lantern
aw shit, there is a new bluepost, didnt saw that
i thought you mean the one with the 4%nerf and stuff
north terrace
Oh no, that one was like 3 or 4 days ago, this one I think was last night
fleet whale
CT nerf and subt nerf was very recent
royal lantern
ye, my fault then sorry
north terrace
Hmm... well I guess nightstalker is better for me either way now lol, my sim says nightstalker and subt are identical DPS so even if the APL wasn't updated then nightstalker will definitely be better, and if it was then.. I have nothing to lose lol
Plus I use shoulders and know the rotation for NS better... so that works out
fleet whale
you won't have shoulders for long
wise frigate
Yeah if NS is better for you now it'll be better when the changes are pushed to Raidbots. Looks like they haven't yet.
fleet whale
this is more of a cleave/aoe hit than a ST one anyway
north terrace
Ah, they're identical on the nightly for me, so nightstalker is my best choice moving forward
strange python
well if they are equal on single target, subt will win in multi target
north terrace
That's true
But if the nightly isn't updated then subt is actually going to be worse by some margin
On ST I mean
Which means it may still win out on cleave fights... or maybe not... lol hard to say
royal lantern
we will see in ~ 5 days and the first real sims @120 can be made
north terrace
Yeah... I mean that'll be a whole other ball of wax... doing my last raid tonight for legion with a new guild so I just wanna pump out some good DPS ๐
lone junco
I dont agree. We should probably argue about this.
civic palm
lol
lone junco
bb in a week tbh.
buoyant lotus
Did we get a nerf?
royal lantern
that gif is how i imagine vanish
green sierra
guys is there any way to get legendary before bfa launch if i havent started yet?
royal lantern
wakening essence?
green sierra
i have 188
lone junco
here is a video I found by googling your exact sentence.
I didnt actually watch it, but I figured similar level of effort.
strange python
at least Tajani or whatshername looks happy about it.
green sierra
i've seen this video, all I wanna know is if i have enough time
there is no info about it
thanks tho
solar rose
Updated for Prepatch-BFA if you want something to trigger you : 3
north terrace
only needs to be 2 sec nowadays ๐
solar rose
It is, just wrong in the description in discord.
nimble tartan
ty for this nice weakaura flawless ๐
boreal wraith
Hello, I just joined to discord and am a returning player on WoW.
exotic glen
hi there
boreal wraith
As I've started playing rogue since I returned 4 days ago, class seems sick these days and also why can't I ask questions in #385145484559253506
?
exotic glen
read the pinned messages in the channel ๐
supple hearth
Hehe working as intended
livid umbra
any traits have been nerfed or buffed in beta ?
it seems other class has gotten some buffs and nerfs
rustic ether
@green sierra yes you have time
if you do all the daily world quests, doa heroic dungeon, and do some mthic+
im doing it and i already have one leggo and probably getting my second just before launch
exotic glen
sure its possible, i just know that i would not do it personally because it is all content i have done 100 times by now. i would not want to burn myself out right before BFA launch
rustic ether
nah im getting leggos about once eery 2-3 days
strange python
oh nice
zealous lily
You definitely do not need a legendary to get to 120 using a dippy bird, mouselook, and a good macro in under 12 hours.
lost musk
Guys
rustic ether
i just want to get to 120 asap and i know that sephuz and the ring will help me get to 116
lost musk
I have a question
civic palm
?
rustic ether
we got answers
lost musk
On assassination i use envenom with 4 point
Becouse an other mutilate will make me waste combo point
civic palm
uhoh
lone junco
Same man. Same.
civic palm
Shoo shoo.
lost musk
I see is the most common atm but if i use the other two spec i outplay assa
Dont know what i make wrong
exotic glen
what
civic palm
Could be a lot of things.
atm with things being as close to BFA launch I would just focus on leveling and reading the guides posted in this Discord.
lost musk
With sub i make crazy dps if i make all good
lone junco
Ok.
lost musk
With assa nooe
lone junco
Some like the others better. Are you 110 with t21 and 230+ ilvl?
lone junco
Cause I'm not gonna get trapped in talking about lvl 45 rotations again.
civic palm
Just worry about leveling in BFA and keeping up-to-date with the pins and guides in the Discord if you wanna see if you are doing anything wrong.
rustic ether
im doing really well with sin even at 203 ilvl
lost musk
Ok thx
rustic ether
there are weakauras that will prety much make pandemic a nonissue if thats whats troubling you
civic palm
ATM things are whacky due to all of the changes to the class and game going into BFA, but if you understand what you should be doing you should be fine at 120.
rustic ether
im excited to see what 120 spec will be best
lost musk
U suggest me to try with weak auras?
exotic glen
as long as its not outlaw imo
rustic ether
if haste holds up for sin it will be pretty damn strong imo
yeah i dont like outlaw
yeah try weakauras
strange python
sometimes I wish we could go back to times with no logs or sims or such
rustic ether
weakauras will help you keep all the important info right in your face
civic palm
Remember that Assassination is not a spammy spec.
civic palm
We manage our DoTs, and work on keeping Envenom up as long as possible.
rustic ether
oh i know its not a spammy spec, but higher haste and crit makes it a spammier spec
exotic glen
well connor, you can apply many aspects to that statement
rustic ether
or as spammy as it can be
exotic glen
datamining and any type of min/maxing
civic palm
Yeah it's much spammier now, but that's a trap to fall into with BFA coming.
ionic crown
36apm spam 
exotic glen
its just removes any sense of adventure and exploration
civic palm
PUSH HARDER
exotic glen
but there is no way people wont min/max
rustic ether
yeah people were using ghetto logs before any addons were even made lol
people would look at in game dmg numbers and write them down to get averages xD
ionic crown
rustic ether
DFA counts as an envenom right?
i know the tooltip says its an envenom but i wanna know if it applies other pvp stuff
civic palm
DFA casts an Envenom at the end of the animation.
Has a damage component before that as well.
rustic ether
mk
civic palm
The spinny AoE bit.
inland ridge
How do I kill a ret pali? Assuming 1v1, all cooldowns available
inland ridge
Do I straight up suck or is ret pali our bane?
strange python
You poke him
inland ridge
Will try @exotic glen
exotic glen
gl, hopefully they can help
remote shell
Could anyone tell me a good Assassin talent build, opener, and rotation priority just started playing my rogue again Iโm doing good in bgs but Iโd like to get really good?
civic palm
#pvp for PVP, there are guides at the top of this channel for PVE and the Pins cover changes.
exotic glen
@remote shell yes, the guide in the header of this channel is designed just for that
if your question is mostly geared towards PVP though, go check out the #pvp channel
grim sable
are we ready to start talking about azerite armor yet?
lone junco
Not yet. The sims are there but availability and balance is not set yet
grim sable
that's what I figured
exotic glen
yeah there are still changes coming in atm
exotic glen
but you know, you can still talk about how things currently are
lone junco
Just like the one trinket that is 3x stronger than 2nd place in cleave.
grim sable
my initial guess was that the envenom buff increase had to be the best
exotic glen
supposedly ret has a pretty OP azerite trait
ebon bramble
seems like its been nerfed
grim sable
but apparently not
ebon bramble
that was fast lol
grim sable
but yeah, I didn't know these numbers were out already
lone junco
Here's my 0.02$. I plan to pick the ones that are cross spec. St and aoe.
If that is an option. I'll go cross spec all day.
ebon bramble
which one do you think that would be?
ebon bramble
wait is the crit haste buff...part of the class trait selection?
civic palm
or the transfusion one
lone junco
@exotic glen if that is the pvp one. I hear it may be limited availability. But it is top. 1/2/3 for all specs.
ebon bramble
wait so champion of azeroth is in the outer ring so if you choose that you cant get say shrouded suffocation?
ebon bramble
interestingm thanks
exotic glen
same traits always on a piece of gear
civic palm
No randomness on gear.
lone junco
Same always.
exotic glen
cool
lone junco
So they are targetable or unattainable.
grim sable
A named piece of azerite gear will always have the same traits and can't titanforge
civic palm
or WF
grim sable
but if it's dungeon gear, you can get it from weekly chests
sure, can't WF or TF
that'll be the pain, when the best azerite gear needs to come from a weekly chest
because it's 300 ilvl otherwise
lone junco
Or the best only comes from a world boss on a rotating 7 week calendar.
grim sable
yeah, that's worse
lone junco
Or only from weekly pvp box.
lone junco
Or going to be nerfed. It seems good tho.
ebon bramble
ya
lone junco
But the spec specific have no reason to be lower.
remote shell
In the Assassin guide for the pre pull of the opener it says to use marked for death then starts the opener like garrote, so on and so on but why would you marked for death at the pre opener then open wouldnโt that waste cp?
lone junco
If you use mark. You use before pull. Most don't use it for current tier.
ebon bramble
im just happy that assassination is decent in cleave,aoe and single haha
grim sable
CT is nice in M+ for sure
supple hearth
Read pins in #bot-spam
silver stone
Kk thx
lone junco
Buddy got buhleeted.
ebon bramble
im surprised all the multi-spec traits
are doing so much better than specific ones
im just checking out other classes like ret and warlock and their best trait is the multi-spec ones
true ingot
I'd expect a lot of them to get smashed into the ground.
stoic token
world pvp leggos to target at this stage in the game if im brand new?
exotic glen
probably none, because if you began farming this instant, you would enjoy it for maybe like
a day before bfa launch
stoic token
wont we still use leggos until 116?
so u saying dont buy any?
not even to help level
exotic glen
well yes but i would personally not care
if i were you
but if you really want to
go for like shoulders or sephuz
stoic token
ok ty
exotic glen
np
stoic token
shoulders over sephuz? I can only get one ๐
exotic glen
probably sephuz over shoulders
you can proc sephuz with sap before you start a fight
stoic token
cool
exotic glen
or garrote or cheap shot i supose
stoic token
betwee nravenholdt or grand army ring?
or soul ring?
only other ones I have
does it matter?
exotic glen
what do you mean
stoic token
cool
lofty sand
wouldn't Prydaz be better if he wants to world pvp? Since being harder to kill is better than doing a bit more damage? Or does it not scale well in BFA?
edgy monolith
anyone got a sim of the new races?
strange python
versed mica
I'm assuming Nightstalker is now better after the 20% nerf to subterfuge?
supple mesa
Imo it will still be best in multi for dmg and a lot of value from the silence
Best in m+
strange python
Nightly simc most likely has the changes so you can sim it
supple mesa
Iโll be curious to see how master assassin sims on st later on
versed mica
Well then, I guess I'll continue to be slow and lame in stealth ๐คท
civic palm
INVISIBLE MOUNTING
civic palm
is that you should just do whatever the fuck you want between mp/ep/bs
strange python
mfd ๐
supple mesa
I love the idea of having an execute
supple mesa
I really love ct man
civic palm
or EX
supple mesa
Iโm so glad we got that
civic palm
No EX for ST seems weird.
quick ice
it has its own table
civic palm
Wanna know what? I knew it has it's own table.
But for some reason I just...
refused to remember it.
lol
strange python
oooooh
quick ice
not 100% sure why it still has its own table tbh
strange python
Lol
supple mesa
Oooo
strange python
whats the optimal setup for leveling?
solar sedge
new to sin. whats a good opener for pvp duels?
supple mesa
Iโd assume ct and leeching poison for leveling
And go to pvp channel they will know more
solar sedge
@supple mesa alright i appreciate it
supple mesa
Have a goodnight man
spice pagoda
When you haven't played rogue for a while and are shocked to find out garrote works out of stealth
feels bad
civic palm
Gotta learn some time.
spice pagoda
haha yeah Just haven't played rogue for a long time
tranquil sedge
So with legion ending in 2 days are we still talking about legendary sims?
Or can we let that go?
safe matrix
Kindof? People who raided during prepatch paid attention to them, mostly people are asking which are the best legendaries to level with.
and those legendaries are pinned in #385145484559253506 for all three specs
rustic ether
tfw youre banned form asking #385145484559253506
:l
idk what i did there but you know what im positive i deserved it lmao
oh yeah i guess i dont ๐ฎ
supple hearth
Working as intended tbh
wise frigate
100% working as intended.
lime path
what constitutes a question as being "quick" enough to post in that channel versus specifically going to the spec it pertains to?
safe matrix
if it can be answered in a single reply usually
but if it requires back and forth, its usually sent to another channel
lime path
I mean technically anything can be answered in a single reply if you TL;DR - hard enough
ah okay
safe matrix
Also if the question pertains to more indepth knowledge
like "what is the optimal time to use X talent instead of Y talent for sin" which may merit further discussion, another would be like "which race is the best looking for rogue" because its such a subjective question that sparks discussion
lime path
I try to do the math to figure things out myself first before asking. But if I'm no where close or it seems like I'm completely speculating, I ask.
rustic ether
im finally done with prepping for bfa T.T
civic palm
Last I checked we don't get Gouge.
supple hearth
can be used in the situation where you're outlaw and u need to stun something realquicklike
supple hearth
ya
random sable
ok good, thx ๐
charred delta
is raidbots updated with the last rogue nerfs if I sim now?
scarlet dock
quick ice
@charred delta looks like it is
latent sorrel
is anyone gonna try a 1 shot fok build with shoulders/cloak/hidden blades/flying daggers for leveling? seemed nice on beta but could be iffy if you dont quickly outpace people so you can actually do big aoe pulls
ebon lodge
is wago.io down for anyone else? trying to setup my ui before xpac launch and cant get any updated weakauras :/
native topaz
Is it ok to cast Rupture at 4+ CP the same way as for Envenom? Or do you ALWAYS want full CP Ruptures?
quick ice
4+ is fine
brisk forge
Its just uptime but 4+ it is
native topaz
Ty
dapper moat
yeah always 4, u waste time and combo points if u always aim for 5
strange python
Wait wtf
I havenโt played since cata as a rogue.
Garrote can be used out of stealth??
slim olive
Ye
strange python
GFG
Iโve been playing assassination for about a month now and didnโt no that shit
Wow wtf lol
Silence only applies in stealth? Or it doesnโt matter?
Nvm. Just read the tooltip on wowhead
spare cloud
more about the class can be found in the pins
strange python
Thanks!
potent warren
Guys, what are the best legendaries to lvl with?
spare cloud
Check pins
in basic questions
or rather #385145484559253506 
same channel different name
potent warren
no access to qq ๐ฆ
ionic crown
read the pins.
potent warren
thx
potent warren
Guys, correct me if Im wrong, judging by herodamage, sub/sin are somewhat equal in dps, right?
Don't bully for asking pls ๐ฆ
royal lantern
ye, but nobody knows how the raid tuning will be
potent warren
thx) so the best source to find out at any time is herodmg, i guess?
exotic glen
Well herodamage is updated by people from this discord
And it is updated the moment changes happen
potent warren
wait a minute, haste is a top stat O_o
ionic crown
in soviet prepatch, stats are backwards
royal lantern
bleeds/poisons tick more often with haste now and the mastery scaling got tuned down
cus the mastery also effects bleeds now
spare hawk
I like rogue
lone junco
Ok.
steep obsidian
I like turtles
fast nacelle
i like girls
manic vigil
Yikes
steep obsidian
your name hurts my eyes
exotic valve
assa still viable after the big nerfs?
exotic glen
yes
quaint sequoia
kjbw nerfed again?
strange python
dont ask the same question in multiple channels
as far as i know, kjbw was never nerfed
sturdy turret
its damage was cut in half on beta a while back, haven't heard anything new since then
exotic glen
well it was nerfed once so
quaint sequoia
medivh updated his guide today with ''kjbw nerfed again'' but cant find anything about it
exotic glen
can go back and check, sec
exotic glen
im going to assume that hes talking about the first nerf then
strange python
cut that in half, 7.5k, half again, 3.75
wise star
Iโm pretty sure that it hits for like 3.2k since the statsquish
weak pine
My moonglaives are better than KJBW
honest compass
Mecha rocket better than kjbw 
slim jungle
I've been trying since last night, so I'll ask here. Can someone point me to a WA that actually tracks dot strength?
exotic glen
... dot strength?
do you mean you want the amount of increased dmg you get from nightstalker / subterfuge?
exotic glen
idk, i dont really think anyone wants to track that
i dont know what you mean as strong as it could be
all dots work dynamically
only nightstalker and subterfuge snapshot
nothing else
so dots are always as strong as they could be
slim jungle
hmmm...I know on my Feral I have a WA that will track if my current rip is tiger fury'd etc
I guess it isn't that important
thanks though ๐
exotic glen
np
slim jungle
is the Vendetta damage dynamic btw?
exotic glen
yes
slim jungle
thanks alot !
exotic glen
np
heady cipher
hey everyone, what spec is looking strongest in BfA for raiding?
strange python
no one knows, tuning isn't done and the raid isn't here
royal lantern
...........nobody can tell you......?its not hard too understand sorry
strange python
yea but as soon as the heroic tuning pass comes it will all change
๐คท they all seem close right now
bold steppe
Couple of questions from a noob:
- How viable is Sin in situations where the target is not long-lived or AOE (i.e. M+)
- How does it compare to Feral Druid, which seems conceptually very similar?
brisk forge
Opinion dosent matter at this time,
strange python
low level m+ sin will be weaker obviously because they are a dot class
as for feral druid, never played it, probably never will
Is it better to go crimson tempest for leveling in bfa?
probably
I will
Ok
seems good with leeching poison too
strange python
the cloak is an additive bonus instead of multiplicative now
limber lion
Still superior to CT
Mobs die way to quickly to get any use from CT.
Different situation in high end M+ and raids.
strange python
But if you don't have the cloak then CT right?
might be good with the warmode talent flying daggers
limber lion
Exactly.
That doesn't work in dungeons/raids so even less of a point to take HB inside dungs/raids.
strange python
not sure if that one is additive or not
the recharge time still turns me off though
versed finch
What are your guys leveling builds assuming you're leveling as sin?
strange python
uhhh
limber lion
You don't have to wait for the stacks to get to full.
You just run through mobs like you normally would
shy delta
hello guys i'm french, do u have a macro for explosive burst in assasination rogue ?
limber lion
But use fan of knives here and there for a big burst on bigger packs.
versed finch
That's kind of what I was thinking connor
limber lion
You're overestimating how much hp the mobs have in the outside world.
shy delta
hello Connor i come back to the game and i don't understand the name at spell
strange python
i leveled on the beta, twice
limber lion
You use MFD and Fan of Knives.
I mean in the end
Do whatever feels best to you, doesn't matter.
strange python
๐
limber lion
I'm personally doing that, as is InfextiousGaming and Selwen.
strange python
ill try it tho, didn't think of the warmode talent
limber lion
How do you get ranks in here by the way? As in the assa/sub/outlaw ranks?
limber lion
Well that was simple, thanks.
strange python
we used to have poison vs bleed names
lone junco
@bold steppe sin is fine for now. The kit is good for st and aoe. I don't know cats.
strange python
Dont worry Sin is the rogues Toaster Spec
if you can work a toaster, you can play sin
lone junco
still takes gear
strange python
an expensive toaster
is still a toaster
All about finding that perfect timer, is the toast too toasty? not enough? gotta find that sweet spot to leave the timer dial on
royal lantern
my toast is always 1/2 black....hmmm...maybe i should switch class......
exotic glen
if thats what you like man ๐
sick vine
hey boys ! just wondering which racial is best for rogue
sick vine
xD
exotic glen
sick vine
not belf?
exotic glen
read the sims
sick vine
oki ty
strange python
Huh.
oblique pike
looks pretty nutty tbh
sick vine
the stoneform give them main stat buff i think
oblique pike
a way better orc racial
royal lantern
remove some debuffs and get stats for each debuff removed or something
oblique pike
933 main stat for 8 seconds 2 min cd
311 extra for each effect removed
always great and situationally insane
rotund pier
Why is undead so good for T22 in most rogue specs?
vestal wren
only on pure st tho
oblique pike
preraids is full m0 and t22 is full mythic raid gear?
rotund pier
But why though
oblique pike
it scales well with gear i guess
and if its shit at multitarget it should probly be one of the better single targets
sick vine
we dont know anything about zanda trolls right?
oblique pike
i wish
exotic glen
dont think so no
oblique pike
in b4 op and everyone has to reroll
sick vine
yeah and we dont know how to become a zanda either or?
royal lantern
nope, we only know dark iron and brown orc
untold stone
does the fanged set bonus 60% increased damage work in pvp?
exotic glen
go belf?
vestal wren
i like ppl playing human in a fantasy mmo
fast nacelle
i like girls
vestal wren
if you have mytical creatures and beasts, whytf would you choose humans over anything else
sick vine
undead is better then belf + cooler as rogue
civic palm
rep bonus...
royal lantern
everything is better then those frking memeelves
+alliance is not human only, dwarf is still the best race ingame(and that is offtopic right now sorry)
lone junco
Undead has bad mog.
royal lantern
fem orc for tmog
lone junco
But you get to fear break once a week. Sometimes once a month.
royal lantern
belf is a meme nobody should touch
lone junco
I should prob use my carnivore thing. Haven't used it since like 2010 prob.
lone junco
I should prob eat for questing I guess.
royal lantern
i dont think you lose enough hp for that with leeching and vial
oblique pike
undead seems a pretty solid choice now tho if you want to PvE and PvP
royal lantern
99%here doesnt play on the lvl where your race choice matters anyway, so pick wath you want
oblique pike
was undead single target already this good or did something change to make it better
stone gust
hello
strange python
hi there
stone gust
what spec is the leveling spec for bfa?
oblique pike
LOL
stone gust
idc about best spec
strange python
they all look fine
tame glen
Sub is more fun for sure
strange python
I'm leveling as sin because of sephuz proccing from garrote silence.
stone gust
oooh
strange python
And, leeching poison.
stone gust
so you rock raven ring and sephuz?
sturdy python
Shoulders and sephuz all the way
stone gust
okay and for leveling what are you goign to swap to?
strange python
Then maybe KJ'S BW?
stone gust
okay thast waht i was thinhking
sturdy python
Garrote>mut>envrnom
stone gust
swap to KJBW after Azerite shoulders
tame glen
Patch made Sub as difficult as tying your shoes though. Which sucks, but is better than Ass, which is about as difficult as untying your shoes
strange python
maybe the crafted boots.
strange python
yes sin is toaster spec
sturdy python
Welcome to wow, all the specs are quite simple now
tame glen
All rogues, and prob all classes, were made ungodly simpler with the latest patch
strange python
Toastified is the term
sturdy python
The sheer difference in survival hunter rotation is amazing
As in, amazing how much easier it got. Whether that's good or bad idk
tame glen
Stuff which has no business on the GCD are on the GCD now (e.g., Shadowblades)
civic palm
Smells like a DPS CD to me, on the GCD you go.
tame glen
IMO, if the ability doesn't perform some clear physical attack on something, it doesn't belong on the GCD. Just feels wrong. WRONG!
civic palm
...
oblique pike
all utility off gcd?
civic palm
Pretty much.
I think there's some random shit that still might be but I am nooooot sure.
Death Grip is on GCD.
tame glen
It's a feel thing, mostly. There's a flow to the sound and motion of your attacks. Having your character chili dick for a global interrupts that cadence, giving the rotation that 'clunky' feel people describe
strange python
I don't even know what the word clunky means anymore
civic palm
mmm
exotic glen
reeeee all specs need to have the same APM reeee
civic palm
Having looked through the entire list of skills added or removed to any GCD, seems fine.
Only weird thing is like...
Netherwalk o _O
oblique pike
why does nightborne jump so much at dual target then drop off hard again at triple
i feel like something has got to be off in these charts
strange python
it's all within 1% anyway.
oblique pike
i care about my 1% bro
strange python
I dunno why people get hung up on race.
civic palm
Because they're bigots.
strange python
I'd sacrifice 1% dps to be a cool ass nightborne.
oblique pike
more like
safe matrix
Utility>looks>dps
oblique pike
i just dont care about aesthetics
grim sable
I'm a big beautiful panda because why would I be anything less magnificent
oblique pike
at all really
royal lantern
you are more likely too get a dps increase by actually play better then by change your race
fleet whale
that 1% can literally be made up from rng alone
royal lantern
the 1% IS made up from rng alone in most cases
@grim sable the panda food buff was actually quite strong in legion tbh
worldly furnace
We got any information on the "better" azerite traits yet?
worldly furnace
hit enter accidentally haha
worldly furnace
Ah wicked, thanks โค
exotic glen
you can adjust it to see what you want
worldly furnace
Nice one, cheers
exotic glen
what
oblique pike
exotic glen
which
uh yes and no i suppose
looks like its a random proc that gives you a 100% chance proc if a teammate dies
so you might be unlucky and a normal proc overlaps with someone dying
i mean i get what you're saying but it seems so weak tbh
civic palm
Seems underwhelming.
exotic glen
yeah that
oblique pike
its already an above average trait on the chart
i assume with any deaths its #1 pretty fast
exotic glen
well the sim doesnt take into account anyone dying so
depends on the amount of procs
idk how often it procs
civic palm
There are a LOT of traits, so being "above average" doesn't mean much when there are 10 other choices that are better.
exotic glen
that too
oblique pike
looks like its on the PvP gear
fleet whale
or warfront gear
fleet whale
I think the world boss in arathi drops a good azerite piece in terms of ilvl
i forget what traits it has though
oblique pike
all the world bosses drop good Ilvl
they are either normal or heroic raid level depending on which one
twin sky
How do I read the 2330031 talent format? It goes from 0 to 3, which is 4 choices.
plucky slate
fleet whale
blizz needs to do a tuning pass on the assassin azerite traits, only having one good trait for ST while the rest are bad doesn't look good
twin sky
ah ok
fleet whale
in terms of spec specific traits that is
civic palm
supple mesa
We have twist the knife and the garrot one no?
fleet whale
twist the knife is the best one
supple mesa
Or did it change
civic palm
IIRC there are multiple good ST traits, they're just not that exciting.
civic palm
It is basically just Shrouded and Twist though.
supple mesa
Are you suppose to stack 3x shrouded or 1x shrouded 2x rupture
fleet whale
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/assassination-rogue-azerite-traits-powers-armor-bfa-battle-for-azeroth according to that Twist is way better than any trait for st
looks like 3 twist is the best right now
strange python
outdated probably
oblique pike
probly wont have much choice when you start raiding anyway
strange python
bloodmallet used to show twist the knife at the top
but now it's that garrote thing
inland sigil
does Shrouded Suffocation work with subterfuge?
exotic glen
it does
inland sigil
Pog
strange python
double dose was REALLY underwhelming on the beta when I played
civic palm
and on top of that, I am not sure that these combinator results take into consideration the Uldir specific traits in a raid setting.
fleet whale
poison wire should be your mut has a base % additional chance to crit, and deal more damage after using garrote
worthy axle
Was thinking MFD would be stronger than vigor for leveling. Anyone tested it?
civic palm
Yes.
exotic glen
Ct, not PB
worthy axle
kk, thank you
remote wing
is ct still decent after the 10% nerf ?
civic palm
Probably.
exotic glen
you realise its just 10% right
civic palm
If something get's nerfed twice, it was probably very strong to begin with.
exotic glen
the world is ending mize
worthy axle
Has anyone leveled up on beta as sin? How does it feel leveling?
fleet whale
it's fine
frigid jasper
any theorycrafting as to show which trinket would be "best" for lvling? based on how add packs fair in zones alongside ilvl and effect value
exotic glen
no theorycrafters would bother to look into this
civic belfry
sin or out?
exotic glen
use your best trinkets or whatever trinkets you just like
young flame
Okay so I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong. What's the Assa opener for PvP?
limber lion
Garrote, Cheap shot, Toxic Blade, Envenom, MFD, Envenom
young flame
Aah, I was running Vigor
limber lion
That's for one shot, if you know you wont oneshot replace the first envenom with rupture
Haven't played PvP since the nerfs so can't say if it works as well as it did before.
Used to be #1 damage every single rbg pre-nerfs.-
supple hearth
@young flame Vigor is still good
it depends on scenario
there is a wowhead guide pinned in #pvp though for sin
vigor is the recommended talent
honest needle
u guys think assasination will still be decent for mythic raiding after all the nerfs ? or is sub and outlaw way ahead ?
supple hearth
^
its likely going to depend on the fight
different specs may shine in different places
supple mesa
My recommendation is play all specs as they each have a niche
young flame
So if I run Vigor the opener stays the same right, just muti -> Env -> Keep rupture up and repeat
fading spade
The nerf wasnt that bad. Unless they did more than the recent 4%
supple mesa
Outlaw aoe sin 2-3 target council sub st
supple hearth
@young flame read the guide
it depends on scenario
what youre looking for is a cookie cutter generic thing which is exactly what that pinned guide does for u
young flame
Oh alright alright, will do
supple mesa
The guide will explain about how to use cds and other buffs to maintain as well
Very helpful๐
supple hearth
Yeah I made sure to proofread before pinning it. The last wowhead guide was very questionable
didnt pin that one lol
supple mesa
Never got around to reading it, once I found ravenholdt I have never used anything else ๐
civic palm
My recommendation is to play 2 specs well.
O_O
Sin and either OTL or SUB.
Just not OTL and SUB.
supple mesa
You know what kind of confused me was that method rated sub>outlaw for m+ even though outlaw seems superior in dungeons atm. I wonder if itโs because of infested
civic palm
Entirely because of Infested.
supple mesa
Ya that makes sense.
lone junco
Why infested? Sub can uber gib the worms?
civic palm
They've 100k HP and SecTec is preeeeeeetty good for that.
lone junco
Or do they deal Better with them given the cheapshot. Dances
civic palm
Though there are other strats to deal with Infested as a whole.
SUB just seems to be the fastest.
lone junco
All I saw was sap and pull around then.
civic palm
CC, low CD burst windows.
Yeah you either kill them, CC them and kill everything else, or CC everything else and kill them.
lone junco
I haven't pulled an infested zone yet so I know nothing.
civic palm
Know how it works?
supple hearth
muscle was saying the other day sub shines if the team plays around letting the sub aoe small adds for more evis damage on main add. and that if the team is yolo and doesnt give a care for the rogue outlaw would be better
civic palm
Course.
The same way things work now.
well...
weeks ago.
At least as far as dragging trash into boss rooms go.
Trash that isn't too awful.
civic palm
Yeah it's just particularly designed in this case.
and something solves that problem very well.
velvet basin
does bfa come out monday night or tuesday night?
civic palm
Monday, 3pm Western US.
royal lantern
both
civic palm
royal lantern
12 am master race
civic palm
Comfy after dinner WoW grind ๐
strange python
im gonna have spaghetti!
royal lantern
2 am in the morning, tired as fk and playing wow, thats my tuesday
strange python
atta boy
opaque tree
you guys using MP or EP for pvp right now ?
I know it's EP for pve atm
just curious for bgs what might be better
opaque tree
oh didn't even see that, thanks.
supple hearth
@opaque tree I've been using EP in prepatch but will probably be using a different build entirely at 120
barren wharf
Is envenom uptime more important than rupturing on multi target with fan of knives
To make deadly poison blast
strange python
you can do both.
barren wharf
Yeah but is it higher priority
strange python
I would say rupturing a target or two is higher priority because of the energy return.
But, with subterfuge I open with 3 garrotes anyway.
with tier 21 the env buff is a much bigger deal.
I'm not totally sure about bfa.
with the rupture azerite trait you probably would want to rupture everything.
barren wharf
Alright cheers
twin flint
What are people gonna be using to level, legendary wise? Will it be sephuz and mantle?
barren wharf
Those will be the most popular duo yeah @twin flint
twin flint
Didn't see the quick questions, sorry! Thank you for the info tho
sly bloom
Loving the 3 specs currently, and decided to focus on sub/sin (i also enjoy outlaw but better go with daggers and play 2 specs). My question is; as sin is haste/crit and sub mastery/crit, do you guys think you can get away with using the same gear for both and still fair well?
(I'd like to play sub in m+ and sin in raids)
strange python
Yes
royal lantern
well, if you dont get the gear with the right stat weights your will ofc not do the 100%best dps
strange python
because secondary stats are not going to be nearly as heavy on DPS as before; however. If you want to min max
theres a fine line
safe matrix
Secondary stats still matter a lot
strange python
Not like they used to
safe matrix
But earlier in the expansion agi definitely has the highest weight
royal lantern
yes...but....well....you will not do the same dps as somone with the right stats
strange python
Before, you HAD to have the appropriate secondary stats; in legion especially. Now, you can get away with it without creating a huge variance in DPS
frigid jasper
what leggos are people running with for lvling? I'm considering between the BoE boots, sephuz, insignia or shoulders
strange python
but yeah. there will be a difference.
safe matrix
The most commonly suggested legendaries to level with are pinned in #385145484559253506 @frigid jasper
frigid jasper
sweet thanks
generally what are the values in comparison between Shoulders and Sephuz? or rather how do you evaluate which you should pick?
lone junco
if you are restealthing a lot, like in quests and leveling. Shoulders are bis. 100% crit goes a long way
sephuz haste is nice if you can interrupt like gouge or blind or kick or cheapshot or subterfuge garrote a cast.
Shoulder/Sephuz outlaw is a crit BTE stun crit that procs sephuz haste and run speed.
amber trench
crafted boots are good if you don't want to recast mount after every fight
and it can boost your speed faster than ground mount speed
lone junco
ill prob have a macro for shoulder sephuz, and runboots sephuz.
amber trench
^
amber trench
boots/sephuz will also be good for indoor hubs etc if you have stacks left
rustic abyss
hey guys im looking for a specific weakaura you guys might know one but i want a pop up on my screen when i hit 4 or 5 combo points. All i can find are ones for 5 combo points
rotund pier
runboots are kind of pointless if u can just use bear tartare, better to have shoulders for dps gain and sephuz for 10% speed,stats, and proc
amber trench
bear tartare is speed rating now that stacks with boots
rotund pier
what benefit does wisp have if u can't fly
lone junco
it is run speed
amber trench
not having to cast your mount and the ability to run over 220% speed
and for most of us it will be 210% at the start
unless you're a pally/dk
rotund pier
i think the whole speed stacking thing is over rated, people are getting obsessed with it(lots inmy guild and on diff discords from what ive seen) At the end of the day, there's no huge benefit in getting to 120 like a couple hours before others
lone junco
then dont. why are you arguing about it?
rotund pier
Unless you are super going for realm first 120, or have a ton of alts to begin leveling on immediatley afterwords
Who's arguing? I just made a statement of opinon
lone junco
if you think running fast is lame, then dont do it. idc. I go outlaw for hit&run. then mark kill tiny shit for flat 25% run for 1min
rotund pier
Why are u putting words in my mouth? I never said I thought it was lame. I just said I don't see the obessision with it.
rotund pier
Cool, have fun on your journey to 120. Maybe I'll buy them
lone junco
I think honestly based on my beta time. there is so much time running around pyramids and dumb shit, that the run speed is going to be really nice.
fresh ginkgo
Is there a rough idea atm for which azrite trait is good?
civic palm
If you forget to bookmark it, you can get back there from here;
royal lantern
sooo...wich azerite trait is now better? twist the knife or shrouded suffocation?
desert maple
Curious what people's hot bar setups are looking like for raiding
desert maple
1-5 are macros?
civic palm
Not anymore.
They were just there like that in case something needed to be put into them.
desert maple
So I ran into a problem of "comfortability" with the number of offensive skills we have, so trying to find a more comfortable way of loading them onto keys....I never thought of using the F keys....
IDK why
desert maple
ooooh color coated
civic palm
Green being mostly DPS abilities on easy to hit buttons, blue being some MISC. stuff to mouse, purple being more misc. to keyboard...
Orange is easy to hit utility, red is stuff that doesn't NEED to be bound, light blue is defensives on easy to hit buttons.
yellow is AoE
and it's like that for every character.
calm barn
you dont have Q and E binded?
desert maple
I macro ToTT Focus and use it on SF all the time
civic palm
The red stuff is that doesn't NEED to be keybound, but is... clearly.
desert maple
gottcha
civic palm
If you wanna use TOTT on the pull and nowhere else, whatever, I have it on shift+MB3.
calm barn
what about Q and E?
desert maple
what mmacro do you use for TOTT?
civic palm
I didn't need Q and E so I never used them for binding.
If I wanted to be more serious about opening up keys I would use ESDF and not WASD.
I use some big annoying focus/targetoftarget/mouseover thing.
desert maple
I was using Q for Toxic, SQ for Vanish, E for Vandet, SE for BE Racial
....Why have I not thought of using ESDF
calm barn
I couldn't use ESDF, alt, ctrl and shift would be in a weird spot to reach for me
civic palm
Yeah moving your hand over only works if you are wiling to relearn things and only if your hand is large enough.
desert maple
I have really big hands.... I do not like using Alt at all, Shift gets used huger
and I think ESDF would open up Ctrl a lot more too, same issues as alt ATM - Hands are too big to comfortably use it
civic palm
I'm fairly dexterous, so alt, ctrl, shift are all ๐ for me.
desert maple
I mean...there's dexterous, and then big hand dexterous ๐
What made you land on that POSITIONING?
civic palm
Yeah.
desert maple
I'm liking the keybinding
civic palm
What ESDF or?
desert maple
I mean the literal layout on your bars
desert maple
"what"?
:p
As in what made you pick it, not when
Trying to find a method to the madness, you know?
civic palm
I used to have more bound on alt+#
desert maple
ORLY
civic palm
Like here https://i.imgur.com/D747S.jpg
desert maple
#pad or just #?
civic palm
You can't see the bindings but the bottom bar is just
12345 alt+12345
then ` and alt + `
Or here's a better example: https://i.imgur.com/vH4Zp.jpg
desert maple
cause code blocks lol
civic palm
So there...
I started using...
F and alt+Q, alt+E
later I would bind something to alt + Q W E
F G Z X
As those are surrounding keys that are easy to press.
desert maple
yeah
I've never personally been able to get my brain to go "down"
like q e f have been easy to use
zxc? nope
civic palm
desert maple
so i think moving to esdf and using qwrtag will make a big difference
civic palm
there's where mouse 4 I think, and shift mouse 4 came in
For Kick and CC.
shift F and alt F have been removed since then
civic palm
Eventually it just kinda... grew and I put things where they made sense to me; https://i.imgur.com/EnYTekb.jpg
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
So 12+ yrs. of playing formed the template for me.
desert maple
gotcha
civic palm
G was traditionally a Healing Option from WOTLK.
desert maple
Where are you fitting Blindside into stuff?
civic palm
But then Artifact weapons demanded a button, so the healing option got moved to alt+Q (vial) and shift+3 (potion).
I am not picking Blindside.
desert maple
Really?