i just said i need help
#assassination
river hawk
strange python
🐒
ionic crown
nobody is advertising 🤔
shrewd night
This isnt an addon support discord though, so uuuh.. Not sure what you want done.
exotic glen
@river hawk i dont think anyone here can help you, try using other addons or directly contactin the addon creator. done
slow stag
He Just asked if someone here could help him with his addon jeez 
spare cloud
@river hawk I would recommend you download weakauras, people can actually help with that
random topaz
it isnt adv? wtf??
''u see all the things
and u can move like u want
except toxic blade
and in the bars u can see the dmg''
exotic glen
@strange python seems like im getting streetcred finally
merry elbow
Explaining how addon works is advertising?
strange python
I'm so confused
merry elbow
🤔
exotic glen
hahahahahaha big fucking word salad
strange python
I got your back honey dont worry
civic palm
Today is the day where people are getting into timeout.
spare cloud
I wish I was modded that way when I wrote nsfw in another discord
river hawk
i unnistall wa bc the icons are so big, but i see a load from syreth so good
i try use that
civic palm
You can just change them.
spare cloud
You can resize them
you can also use bars instead of icons
you can adjust everything
if you want to
exotic glen
np, come again if you need more help
exotic glen
uh
civic palm
👌
exotic glen
thanks i guess
strange python
Dawww
spare cloud
Good luck with weakauras if you try it
sterile path
fyi @river hawk -- looks like the lead dev on the addon actively sees and responds to feedback here, so you can try asking directly: https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/sliceadmiral
river hawk
okey! but i heard to change to wa
and i go for it
100% rogues with wa
its for something
but ty for searth
search
civic palm
yeah SliceAdmiral and Slicecommander (I think) used to be more popular.
sterile path
I have, but from many moons ago -- WA has really kinda overtaken the addon space in the past year or two
i still use some pretty old ones
strange python
Who are you
civic palm
That is a fair question.
spare cloud
ionic crown
wait those reactions are dangerously close to another word
spare cloud
316 total messages
sterile path
👀 "up to date"
spare cloud
spare cloud
Active Shadow
civic palm
6.0.3 O _O
lone junco
thottbot tbh
spare cloud
@sterile path answer pls
civic palm
spare cloud
thanks
sterile path
a relic, a phoenix, a memory, a promise
strange python
nice
civic palm
I don't think they wanted your DnD character profile
sterile path
I've been known to
civic palm
I mean the nerf was targeted @ 120 and not 110 Noobe.
sterile path
better convo for OT prolly
spare cloud
Farming messages now
civic palm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
spare cloud
gotta get to 400
ripe bramble
Herodamage and Bloodmallet seem to have very conflicting sims for azerite traits. Is there a consensus on Twist the Knife vs Shrouded Suffocation stacking?
lone junco
just wait till release
spare cloud
lone junco
and?
does it matter what the preliminary sims say this far out from content? or we just gonna plan exactly which pieces we are gonna get already
spare cloud
Whats gonna change in regards to his question in the next 4 days
dire spoke
supple hearth
^
spare cloud
lone junco
unphased by this harry potter meme
lone junco
I dont care about 4 days. try heroic open
spare cloud
You said wait for release
ripe bramble
Somehow everything turns into an argument in this discord lol
acoustic eagle
what legendaries do you all plan on using while leveling? shoulders and cloak?
wild hollow
EVERYTHING?! Youre wrong,., what do you mean everything!?!?
fossil inlet
@ripe bramble Shrouded Suffocation doesn't even work properly.
prisma pond
Poptarts > Toaster Strudels.... Discuss
civic palm
Both #off-topic though.
ripe bramble
In what way? @fossil inlet
fossil inlet
It's supposed to increase the damage of garrote if cast from stealth. It doesn't. Nor does it increase the initial ticks damage, nor does it increase the amount of garrote ticks.
lucid bolt
hey guys i dont get it but why is sephuz secret so good?
shrewd night
2% raw haste
lucid bolt
so i should definitely use that then
civic palm
also stats.
lucid bolt
according to the sticky insignia and sephuz is the way to go still
fossil inlet
For longer fights, yeah. Shoulders will prolly win out on 3min ish fights.
dire spoke
imagine discussing mantle 4days before release
civic palm
GOTTA LEVEL ZOOMZOOM
lone junco
its the equiv. no gear rewards. just killing stuff
high badge
How hard are the recent nerfs hitting us?
spare cloud
Rogue will still be fine
royal lantern
ded class
strange python
is subterfuge still best talent pick with the 20% nerf?
shrewd night
spare cloud
@strange python Should sim yourself to know for sure
strange python
yea doing that now
north terrace
sims updated for the nerf?
civic palm
I believe so.
proper forge
holy fuck
so i finally decided i want to learn other rogue specs
and im having fun with sin rn
and i also wanted to try and get the hidden artifact since i thought it was cool
i got it from the 3rd or 4th mob
lmao
is this normal?
somber trout
proper forge
damn
the last one i need is the sub one
ugh i gotta search for those coins or tickets for that one
civic palm
GL
proper forge
and then i gotta do some sorta scenario i think
river hawk
hey guys
anyone know the id of last talent rogue
in my lenguage its bomba de veneno and the wa think its other
merry elbow
Just copy the name and check in wowhead
river hawk
oh
buoyant lotus
Are the rogue nerfs live?
river hawk
true
buoyant lotus
okay, how good will the spec be @ 120 with those nerfs?
civic palm
Fine?
merry elbow
It will be ok. Sin was overtuned, with these changes it will be more on par with others
wide bolt
Sin was already near if not at the top so will still be good
hazy iron
river hawk
nah its imposible
merry elbow
There was
river hawk
poison bomb dont work
for me
i just want a icon say okey poison bomb its on the floot!
floor
but dont work
bc are so much skills or things with the name poison bomb = bomba de veneno in the game
river hawk
and wa think its other thing
lone junco
feeeels like clipping EP with 2+ env 2+ ruptures seems really good for the duration of the subterfuge.
river hawk
ty!
fresh nexus
hello which legendary should i but for leveling for BfA? i dont have any so this will be my first one
should i buy insignia like pinned msg says?
nvm saw pinned msgs in quick questions
river hawk
guys u change the stile of ur energy bar with addons?
the 7 stile bars i have are shiit
civic palm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
halcyon tulip
im going sephuz and belt, the crafted boots are good too
gaunt galleon
What do you guys think is the best lvling spec form 1 - 100
lone junco
there is a rogue leveling guide that recommended sub up to near 100 i think.
grim canopy
anyone do M+ after the insane nerfs
to CT
below tank now?
why ddi they even do this
civic palm
Do you want to get muted?
strange python
Literally unplayable
grim canopy
So have you tried CT after nerf on beta? anyone?
honest compass
CT nerfed on live lol
grim canopy
shit
honest compass
@civic palm you were right, no one reads
civic palm
uhhuh
honest compass
as i said before lingo, the "best" spec for M+ in BFA rn is dependent on what instance you do
civic palm
lol
honest compass
there isn't a spec that dominates all 3
they all do well, just some specs are better than others in certain instances
warm parcel
Wed like you dont play demo anymore Blizz in brf
grim canopy
im programming in my outlaw weak auras as we speak
civic palm
wow
honest compass
tfw when you copy/paste weakauras made by other people
grim canopy
nope i make my own
honest compass
grim canopy
those all look dumb
honest compass
i copy mine from mize
grim canopy
like the lcd screen of a 80s boombox
thorn moth
Is mize another site or a person
supple hearth
Same
honest compass
jk, weakauras is for plebs
grim canopy
thx
honest compass
is mize another site or a person
thorn moth
Mhm
honest compass
@civic palm are you a person or website
civic palm
whu
strange python
best race for horde rogues in bfa?
thorn moth
Vulpera
oblique mural
.5
honest compass
naga
strange python
how you unlock naga?
supple hearth
@strange python there are sims on herodamage in the pins
There isn't really a "best" though
final dust
Trolls For Asassination, And Undead for the other two tho
strange python
@supple hearth thanks
oblique mural
.4.5
lament bloom
Dumb question, I'm new to rogue. Why is my stealth taking a few seconds to remove after using an opener?
oblique mural
.5
slow mortar
@lament bloom subterfuge talent?
lament bloom
Holy shit, thank you. That's why.
fierce thicket
Do I need to do all the quests in Darkshore on all my characters to do BFA content? Or just finish battle of lordareon on 1 character
lament bloom
Good god, I was getting pissed off in PVP
supple hearth
You want to take subterfuge in PvP btw for triple garrote and cheap shots
But yeah it's helpful to be aware of ur talents hehe
lament bloom
Still learning, but you're absolutely right. I've been rocking outlaw, just switched to Assassination and didn't take the time to read them through.
strange python
No
bright badger
Triple garrote and cheap shots? What do you mean with that? That you have time to cast 3 of em before stealth fades?
strange python
Yes
vernal atlas
Watch out, nerfs inc!!
still hinge
@warm parcel I was told I might be able to ask a question regarding a line in the Assassination SimC profile?
warm parcel
Mhm
still hinge
regarding a line in the simc assassination profile. does anyone know if spell_haste returns the rating or the actual percentage value?
here's the full line actions=variable,name=energy_regen_combined,value=energy.regen+poisoned_bleeds*7%(2*spell_haste)
limpid willow
so like do i need to do the silithus questline to get into bfa or how does that work exactly
talking about the one where you use your artifact to stop the sword
or is it just sit by magni and wait?
warm parcel
I see no reason for it to not be actual haste
civic palm
IIRC nothing is expressed as a percentage but as the decimal conversion?
still hinge
thank you.
strange python
shrewd night
Yes? And?
shrewd night
Its almost as if we dont have two news channels where things get linked automaticly when its posted!
civic palm
wowhead made it even older news.
shrewd pine
wait they are doing more tuning prelaunch?
indigo cradle
Sin dead
civic palm
120 tuning.
shrewd pine
civic palm
4 days before launch because who fucking cares?
strange python
Because they hotfixed it for 120. We do crazy dmg right now at lvl 120 with best traits
hexed galleon
should i use the elemental force or shattered hand enchantment or a mix of both? doing pvp at 29
pastel vault
generally a % in code doesnt mean percentage it's the modulo operator
it get the remainder of a division
warm parcel
@still hinge
So. I actually cannot say for sure. But I would guess its just haste%
hexed galleon
should i use elemental force or shattered hand in pvp?
lofty junco
wtf again a nerf for assa?
supple mesa
The rise of outlaw
strange python
its okay bois, cant stop wont stop the Sin
Sin @ 120 where 1 shotting in duels, like just deleting others.
lofty junco
i just think i had wanted to see a ret nerf^^
elfin fossil
does anyone know if raidbots is updated with the 20% nerf to subterfuge, if I wanted to sim talents?
shrewd pine
not yet
granite horizon
guys what do u recommend for leveling in bfa: sephuz & ravenholdt or sephuz & bracers?
strange python
Doesnt matter, both are equally bad
granite horizon
haha oh i thought they are good
strange python
Sephuz is
granite horizon
so what 2nd leg should i buy?
strange python
Ravenholdt is useless cos you press fok more than muti
And 30% of leveling mobs health is nothing
I guess mantle is fine, since u get it on every pull
And crafted boots obviously but thats gold
digital current
@lofty junco I thought ret is getting nerfed?
lofty junco
not now and thats what i can't udnerstand they buffed and nerfed some specs/classes but the "top #1 dog" is still there
digital current
But in the same patch notes with the sin nerfs, which is for a hotfix before BfA, ret gets nerfed as well
strange python
You do understand that ret doesnt need any skill nerfs right? There is a reason why its not being nerfed in these balance tunings
digital current
Am I just completely misreading this?
digital current
Blake says ret isn't getting nerfed.
shrewd pine
yes
shrewd pine
and this
Rogue
Assassination
Crimson Tempest damage reduced by 10%.
Subterfuge bonus reduced to 80% (was 100%).
digital current
Yea. Is it that big of a thing? Does it have that much impact at 120?
strange python
Depends on the content you do
shy wagon
Clearly sin aoe seems to be on the stronger side so they put it back in place
shrewd pine
tbf CT was doing quite good damage
strange python
Meanwhile Frost mage exists
shy wagon
Indeed
strange python
shy wagon
But its easy to understand why garrote+ rupture+CT on every target with FoN spam was too good
shrewd pine
garroting shit up was OP mostly due to t20 4pc which increased its damage by 60%
not sure if it warrents nerf going to bfa given the set wont be a thing 
just blizzard things
split grail
So with the nerf to subterfuge is it still the best talent pick?
strange python
For what
shrewd pine
it wasnt best talent to pick even before the nerf
nightstalker was still simming higher for me
shy wagon
But for dugeons subterfuge its undeniaby stronger. You can basicly open with 4 garrotes up
cinder garnet
what's everyone's legendary choice for leveling?
undone girder
Sephuz for sure
strange python
Crafted boots and sephuz
slim pecan
Sephuz + crafter boots or ravenholdt
cinder garnet
wait what
shrewd night
If you're going to be singletargeting your way to 120, call me in 2023 when you get there.
strange python
Exactly
tribal lark
why no shoulders for leveling? mutilate mutilate envenom mark envenom dead
strange python
Who uses Muti while leveling?
What is this
crafted boots and sephuz for me or for huge pulls maybe fok back and shoulders
gonna fok my way to 120 ez breezee
Are u planning on doing 50h leveling session
Pressing muti
I'll prefer 5h with fok and speed legendaries
🤷
versed bobcat
Question is, hb or ct :X subterf or nightstalker
orchid cove
versed bobcat
Guess ill go ct also since i dont want to use envenom at all
Ns cuz bigger fok out of stealth + movement in stealth
lament dove
it's funny how speedleveling is the new meta
shrewd pine
It always was.
median marsh
Any profession that's better for gearing up for the first raid? (as in LW bop, alchemy trinket, something else)
strange python
How is it "New meta"
lofty junco
NS after SF nerf seems better
exotic glen
Depending on situation
lofty junco
i find it nice that we now need healpots again cause they are better then health stones
shrewd night
Healpots were better than HS since.. Several expansions ago afaik
lament dove
fine, I just don't see how it matters tbh, we are talking about a few hours differences, it's not like casuals will drop out from the top100 because they don't speedlevel...
shrewd pine
Cuz I hate leveling. The sooner im done with it, the better
lament dove
it's not wasting time for everyone
shrewd night
Its relative.
lament dove
by definition gaming is wasting time^^
shrewd pine
No one is forcing you to do that.
ionic crown
shrewd night
You do you, if you let me do me.
shrewd pine
gaming wasting time,
jesus fuck. Im out. Cant deal with stupidity today
lament dove
cause you act like normal leveling is dumb
indigo cradle
-1 fotm
golden dust
tbf, assassination was never the fotm lmao
outlaw still fun and competitive
at least for m+
midnight karma
guys have the nerfs gone live yet?
strange python
What nerfs
midnight karma
shrewd night
Im going to go with a - yes
strange python
"Hotfix" so i'd assume so
midnight karma
alright thanks just wanted to know
oblique pendant
i was playing earlier today and tbh im not sure if those nerfs are live yet
midnight karma
i wasnt sure coz im EU and it was posted on US
oblique pendant
im Eu too 😄
river quarry
lol random q, is the rogue mount quest annoying?
and how the shit do you get to exodar
shrewd night
Wowhead has a good walkthrough
river quarry
only one that sounds annoying is auction house stormwind
though, think my servs pretty dead alli side so hmm
shrewd night
Dont go in with warmode activated?
river quarry
i thought alli could attack you either way in the city?
strange python
Ye pretty sure thats how it works
shrewd night
My understanding is that its a PVE realm unless you activate warmode
shrewd night
Nah, on PVE realms you could visit towns without being ganked by guards and whatnot
strange python
I dont think that applies to cities, seems odd thinking you could just go for a walk in SW as horde
Hmm
Dunno then
shrewd night
Well.. Yeah
unkempt pond
guards attack you ofc
dull dust
@strange python FOTM in pve is hard to miss, check the logs for amount of parses, rogue/warlock is at faktor 3-4, while the class was basicly a very low played class in WoD (amount of logs)
there were less played rogues in pve while the LEGENDARY DAGGERS were a thing, need to keep in mind just to see how out of wack the amount of rogue players are in legion
strange python
I never said its not popular class
I said its not fotm going into BFA
There is nothing special about rogue rn
unkempt pond
what
ripe nimbus
I donno I think it's fotm because of M+
strange python
Guilds arent stacking rogues
frigid needle
guilds never did that, theyn want 2 or 3 if u have luck
rogue are the best for jump mechanics like tichondrius, or single target, but for multi we was useless, now it change, maybe they want stack
dull dust
@frigid needle your statement doesnt fit the log facts, guilds are using rogues the whole expansion, even more in harder raid content
read with me: SOAK MECHANICS
frigid needle
like kil jaeden soak?
strange python
There is no rogue abuse in uldir like there was in ToS and Argus
ripe nimbus
Yes there is
dull dust
EN was neither, did not matter for legion 😃
its allways a bad thing for raids/m+ if a non-hybrids get such a big FOTM playerbase, since it will just limit melee spots and it just asks blizzard for unneccessary nerfs to keep the playerbase happy
OP paladins or druids are much easier to live with, since they dont all play 1 spec
*role
quiet junco
Is there a known cap or soft cap for haste going into bfa atm
dark crag
140%
river quarry
lold killed the alliance auction house in like 2 seconds
guy using it and the guy that ran up were like wtf
vanished before they could target me
welp that was easy
sullen pagoda
gz
dark crag
Context
quiet junco
What about crit ?
dark crag
99,73%
sullen pagoda
caps
quiet junco
Lol suprized I didn't get a "sim it"
dark crag
Only outlaw has somekind of cap on mastery
shrewd night
I mean, its up to you if you believe him or not
dark crag
Believe me? The numbers alone were unbelieveable
dark crag
140% is the soft cap, just for informations
shrewd night
Uhhuh
lone junco
rogue soakings surprise
lone junco
@warm parcel btw. In the apl if I trim the Env. and rupture to 2+ cp, will it pause for clip? or will it just finish asap at 2+
warm parcel
I mean remove the clip from conditions
lone junco
did some dabbling last night and it feeeelt like clipping for 100% ep uptime during subterfuge was nice
warm parcel
Cps have nothing to do with ep
lone junco
choosing to delay spend pushes ep uptime.
seems that all i
am losing is some PB chance, and a shorter Env buff, but that seemed ok as well.
anyway for raid st, garrote mute 3. mut 4, mut 2, all were smooth enough to maintain 99% ep uptime. and whether that is good for full fight duration, or just for subterfuge duration.
annd. that would probably be even more valid if you have the garrote azerite traits
will matter more once our stats tank. without crit etc.
old pike
Hello, does toxic blade buff envenoms?
old pike
Is worth to delay toxic blade to get at least 2 envenoms in?
exotic glen
no
old pike
y?
old pike
It does more
exotic glen
if you want 2 envenoms in your toxic blade window, then pool your energy
dont hold toxic blade
old pike
Yeah obviously, but it's still worth it if I happen to be stuck on low energy no?
shrewd night
You shouldnt be stuck on low energy when tb is coming off cd tho, thats the point
exotic glen
what he said
old pike
like 2*30% envenom is whole toxic blade, so it would be worth delaying up to 15 sec
shrewd night
If you do, thats poor play on your side.
old pike
25*-
shrewd night
?????
exotic glen
thats an entire cast
old pike
Like when you need to rupture everyone first, so you are low on energy
exotic glen
breh
old pike
Ok then
What about Kidney shot with Internal bleeding over envenom in dungeons?
Because it does more dmg and gives back energy
Is it worth?
shrewd night
Sim yourself to find out, Im going with a fat no.
old pike
ok thanks
exotic glen
there is absolutely no way that the answer would be yes
shrewd night
Physical add on argus, HAH GOTTEM
old pike
Read the venomous wounds passive
lone junco
@old pike I use the kidney bleed for solo questing and pvp though. it does a ton of dmg
exotic glen
you fucking go read it
lone junco
and i believe you can rip it with exsang
exotic glen
it says garrote and rupture
exotic glen
wat de fak
shrewd night
GOTTEM AGANE
lone junco
exotic glen
should be on the in game tooltip
shrewd night
lone junco
you cant kidney important mobs anyway
exotic glen
bamboozled again
shrewd night
Suck it up fam, you got rekt
lone junco
it is largely irrelevant
exotic glen
absolutely did
i admit defeat
but if you cant stun the mob, it doesnt get internal bleeding right
lone junco
wot
lone junco
when I use internal on a stunnable mob, it is easily 2nd dmg on the profile.
so if you must level as sin, it is neat.
exotic glen
why are you farming that
strange python
i was bored yesterday
lone junco
@lament dove if the kidney does double an env, and provides a stun, I would use that.
strange python
so ive done tos hc
lone junco
but thats just me
lament dove
kidney does 10K?
lone junco
check the tick rate but probably
but you'll know when you rather kidney vs extra env.
when you start dying.
lone junco
thats why they are talents. cause you can change them if you need.
lone junco
the sephuz open for haste is pushing my tick rates. so that helps.
and ep.
and exsang rips the subterfuge and the kidney. All im saying, is that it was better than I expected.
shy mica
silk sedge
why the hell doesnt venomous wounds work with crimson tempest
ripe nimbus
Because that would be so much energy u wouldn't be able to spend it anyway. U already get enough energy to be close to energy cap with 3 rupture garrote targets
indigo cradle
Stay ALL day here doing reply is a job?
strange python
Weird question
steep citrus
yes, i will touch it
strange python
Do our dots do a partial tick when we refresh them?
steep citrus
I don't think so
steep citrus
you lost me
strange python
Typing is hard
I mean, my dots tick every 1.6s seconds.
When you first apply a dot, it doesnt tick until 1.6s have passed.
Maybe I'm asking if that delay still exists when they are refreshed
Perhaps with that perspective the answer is obviously no
steep citrus
i see. no
storm drift
i have a lil issue
im doing the assassin scenario to get the king slayers but it wont let me use the smoke bomb
wait
nvm i found out how
strange python
Someone mentioned that the other day
storm drift
u have to use trick of the trades
lone junco
@strange python they talked about that in TC a few days/weeks ago. Basically if you clip a tick off. Your time to next tick may be soon/late. But ultimately a wash. Unless you are talking subterfuge final tick.
lone junco
I usually vanish refresh subterfuge in pandemic. But then let that drop completely.
steep citrus
wait what. explain the scenario
strange python
well I was more thinking aloud
lone junco
Tick. Tick. Tick. Refresh. Time to next tick is 2s adjusted for haste.
Tick tick refresh just before tick, Time to next tick is 2s adjusted for haste.
steep citrus
no
strange python
so in that second scenario the time for the next tick is actually like 3.9s or something, adjusted by haste
lone junco
If it is in pandemic it would maintain tick times. Not the 2nd option.
steep citrus
i'd need to see logs. i would never have thought the pandemic function would reset the tick timer
lone junco
So that is effectively let it drop if subterfuge or ns. Cause you would clip with an unbuffed.
Yeah. I highl doubt the pandemic touches tick timer.
steep citrus
you would see ticks that were more than 2 seconds apart every time you refreshed in a log
i dont' think your description is right
lone junco
Probably why pandemic was introduced on the first place
I agree.
Option 2 would be awkward.
strange python
I should just fine the tc post instead of pandering
lone junco
Now when you let the buff drop. Your gap is depending on restarting the tick rates.
strange python
pandering is not the right word there
lone junco
But we would probably rather that 0 tick of subterfuge than not.
steep citrus
obviously. but disregarding haste changes, assume 2 seconds, if i have 5 seconds left and a tick coming in 1 second and i refresh. it just extends the duration (and possibly recalculates the tick damage if it's something like subterfuge) but the next tick still happens in one second just like it would have if I hadn't refreshed
strange python
then under what scenario is a tick clipped
steep citrus
that's what I'm trying to understand
strange python
since refreshing a dot at any time is pandemic
grim sable
there's just a max pandemic time
spring coral
Hi i have a question my friend have a rougue and he is trying to get the Bindings of the Windlord from killing ash golm in vault of the wardens, he try almost 30 times but not lucky no he is asking if he need artifact weapong equiped or he just have bad luck 😦
lone junco
Sounds like no ticks would be clipped. The only clipping that may occur is if you refresh garrote over a subterfuge. The next being non buffed in the next 0.01<t<2
strange python
bad luck
lone junco
Probably what the tc said in the first place. No loss
steep citrus
yeah, i just looked at one of my logs, the tick rate isn't affected by refreshing
lone junco
Maybe a Bong wa. For when garrote/rupture drops from current target.
(Would need to be 0.1<t>0. Else it would bong every time you swap target.
Once we hit 120 I'll do some stat weight plots. I look forward to seeing how haste scales.
Not that simc would necessarily have it correct if there were some weird DR below 1s tics.
hoary epoch
How long should i wait for vendetta for toxic blade?
jovial rain
what do u guys think of making dispatch baseline again just multilate is so boring-.- without kingsbane u got nothing to press
and the t15 talent choice between master poisener and planning is just u cant go with dispatch at t15 talent
river hawk
guys
u think poison bomb with all the rng its the best option?
or u can choose crimsom tempest and take it all time?
indigo cradle
Sim yourself
river hawk
xD...
shrewd night
Imagine a world where you could check pins and see which builds are preferred for single target and multitarget, and thus be able to answer the question
Or sim yourself
Either one works.
hoary copper
That would never happen
versed finch
U guys mention the pins, I checked the pinned messages but builds aren't linked there. I mostly use icy veins to check for general knowledge as well
strange python
so subterfuge is 80% now even if the tooltip says otherwise?
steep citrus
hotfix applied "as soon as possible" so it's probably in. but yeah, they can't update the tooltip without a restart and/or patch or some limitation i can't remember
versed finch
So deeper stratagem is better than vigor?
strange python
no
versed finch
I didn't think so but that's what the pin reads
strange python
where
hoary copper
lol what pin
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/battle-for-azeroth-quickstart-guides/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
versed finch
On the dps guide, I guess I'm looking at the poison build
Not so much guide. But the ranking thing
hoary copper
which guide? RH, Icy-veins, wowhead, noxxic?
versed finch
I'm looking on the herodamage rankings
strange python
probably herodamage? look at the sets used. The top sets use 2 piece tier 20 at base mythic ilvl. Perhaps can sim close with that.
filter out 2 piece tier 20
versed finch
Yeah that's what I did
hoary copper
Just use the RH guide
versed finch
Rh guide is better than icy veins?
hoary copper
Probably. idk who updates Icy if its greyhound or not
strange python
it is
hoary copper
Either gives a better idea than just hero
versed finch
Rh guide even says deeper strat
hoary copper
You can also sim yourself
versed finch
Ah
strange python
2nd row is subterfuge
hoary copper
"Single Target 320021
2210021 - prepatch"
versed finch
I've still been running master poisoner as well tho
strange python
(which just got nerfed so maybe they should be updated but it probably isn't worth the effort since launch is a few days away)
versed finch
Says they are close to sim tho
strange python
yea you need to have decent crit/haste to run elaborate planning
hoary copper
thats why i said sim yourself
EP is still higher for me and neither of mine are that high
versed finch
Is there a soft cap to haste? Or a particular number to shoot for?
hoary copper
no
strange python
yes
hoary copper
Until the other stats get better
versed finch
Do u guys constantly update ur pain after every piece?
strange python
that is a soft cap yes
hoary copper
No
versed finch
Pawn*
hoary copper
I am always simming for new pieces
versed finch
And u manually change ur pieces to see that? Like on the website
hoary copper
Pawn strngs are personal
versed finch
Cause I've noticed my character doesn't update quickly
versed finch
Ok I've only been doing it on a one way street then
Just generating stat weights and putting it into pawn
Not putting my character into raidbots
hoary copper
If you want the most accurate thats the best way, otherwise it wont update till you log. Also used to be more important for artifact traits
versed finch
Yeah, I just came back to the end of legion. I raided hard during wrath but all u had to do then was get BIS pieces
So much more to do to maximize your dps now
Sorry for the ignorance and thanks for the patience
dark token
it will be much better with personal loot
it was a pain in lootcouncel simming pieces
versed finch
I just dread waiting for 2 dagger drops
hoary copper
Idk about better
versed finch
Are u all leveling as sin?
vestal wren
i will lvl as sub
versed finch
If I don't I'd go sub, I don't like outlaw at all
I raided as combat rogue, and outlaw is not fucking combat at all
sullen pagoda
ye outlaw isnt close as boring 😂
hoary copper
I'll be leveling afflic
versed finch
No. I liked old combat tho cause u could get your rotation rolling smooth as fuck
hoary copper
Fuu lives
dire mulch
I haven't reached 110 yet but can't you still go SnD route to smooth the rotation @versed finch ?
lean hill
SnD sucks, but that's more of an outlaw channel discussion
versed finch
I don't think its optimal
chilly oasis
Ya think that stat priority will change at bfa?
dire mulch
off-topic to this: I ran a sim on raidbots (im only level 93 with heirloom gear) and it listed a dps. is this a number I should strive for?
hoary copper
sim dps is the average dps you should be getting but if you're not max level it really doesnt matter
There isnt really a soft cap. Its not really a number to aim for
dire mulch
for example the Sim told me that I should be avging 1600 when I'll do 1000 on a dungeon boss
(this is as a sin). does this mean i should be looking into fixing my rotation
hoary copper
Theres something you're not doing or something its accounting for that you dont have (buffs/food/flask/pots)
silver stone
sims dont have human error right ?
strange python
I wouldn't worry about it until max level though.
well no, the sim is not a human.
dire mulch
at max level, should I at least be hitting 90% of the sim value?
strange python
they do have a small margin of error
at max level you should be able to do your sim dps and even more depending on the fight length.
hoary copper
Sims is averages over however many iteration. So some things can make it different (you didnt account for heavy movement, more than 1 target) and of course rotation things can make it less too
strange python
oh yeah. sim dps implies just standing there with no mechanics (patchwerk).
hoary copper
Unless you put it at light movement, heavy movement etc
lone junco
The movement sims are weird to me. The most I do Is adjust fight times to match your raid kills.
The compare sim vs log on a st fight.
Then^
strange python
ye I rarely do those sims
lone junco
I had tried hectic add cleave. But the times are static and long fights stopped adding adds. And short fights might not have added in time. So I just use fixed value targets.
warm parcel
Haste is good until it isnt
lone junco
I still want to see the stat curves.
lone junco
From 15% to 100% haste? Neat.
hoary copper
I tried saying that weak, no one listens to me
What if I like hard caps tho ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
warm parcel
lone junco
But you don't have to get mad. I don't trust anyone. That's the fun part of being me.
A lot of stuff I don't care enough about to test or verify.
warm parcel
I mean stats are simply like throwing 3 D20
If you have 1 1 20
Youll have shit results
lone junco
Some people are glass half full. I am trust half empty.
hoary copper
I like my caps like I like my men. Hard and full of haste?
warm parcel
If you have 1 20 1
Youll have shit results
Its simply just 3 multipliers interacting with each other
And this is why haste might be good up until x
Then it suddenly seems to drop
hoary copper
someone halp, I agree with Weak
warm parcel
Is agreeing with me a bad thing 
dire mulch
about sims again: they don't really simulate your stealth -> opening right? because if they're fighting patchwerk for an hour i don't see them coming out of stealth unless they're using vanish as an offensive CD
slate moat
hey, can you tell me the stat priority for single and aoe? and need assa rogues breaking points (%) ? ty
timid quarry
Are daggers best for assassination?
strange python
sin can only use daggers
timid quarry
Okay thanks
strange python
mutilate needs two daggers
warm parcel
You start the fight from stealth
And of course vanish is an offensive cd
So thats every 2 minutes
dire mulch
what I mean was the opening is meaningless numbers if the fights are simulated to be extremely long
lone junco
@slate moat stat weights are your own.
timid quarry
I figured that but didn’t know for sure since it’s been so long since classes used unique weapons
warm parcel
Not exactly no
Rogues have a bit different time with openers than most casters lets say
Cause rogues actually combo stuff
dire mulch
it would prob matter for a big fight then
lone junco
In 1m sims it matters. Shoulder open mattered.
dire mulch
i mean a short fight*
theres a lot of different rotation guides. i've looked at icy-veins, wow-head and ravenholdt. which do you guys prefer? should I be looking elsewhere? should I be figuring what works on my own?
zealous lily
lean hill
Most people are going to say ravenholdt
zealous lily
yeah
lean hill
Its the most accurate, and you can talk to the people who write the guides on this discord
zealous lily
there was also just a big nerf so expect stuff to be different when uldir comes out
dire mulch
i've looked at ravenholdt's stuff but it's not very detailed..
warm parcel
The prepatch one or the actual one?
lone junco
These guides gave me orange parses. Hooray
lean hill
What kind of details are you looking for
dire mulch
it doesn't talk about the talents that I'm picking factoring into the rotation
or maybe i just don't understand this format
warm parcel
Shoot
lone junco
Icy veins is good to learn the talents. But the rotation is here.
zealous lily
i have multiple 90+ and orange parses in antorus just using the guides and i was fundamentally wrong on a number of things like which relics to use and how pandemic worked for rupture for most of the tier
so just reading and playing good (not dying) can take you real far
supple hearth
@dire mulch icy veins and wowhead authors all come from here btw. If that helps
dire mulch
sorry, what is an orange parse? is it a log or something?
dire mulch
oh do they compete with each other? 😏
dire mulch
I see. i was comparing against each other trying to figure out which one was "right"
supple hearth
The most updated stuff is going to be found here. If there's discrepancy or need clarification come here or ask authors
strange python
your percentile performance compared to every other sin rogue who has logged that boss on that difficulty
zealous lily
some pages on the icy veins guide are out of date from 7.3.5 but BFA is coming out so it doesn't matter that much
strange python
orange is 95%+
there are also parses for people in within 1 ilvl from you but they are broken apparently?
lean hill
Generally ravenholdt will be right, theres enough people looking at it that any misinformation is fixed quickly, if it even makes it up
dire mulch
do you guys find it hard to switch brains onto another spec?
lean hill
If you havent played it there will be an adjustment, if you are familiar with the specs it's not hard to swap between them
dire mulch
you guys are super helpful btw, thanks
zealous lily
yeah i have to practice with the most recent patch with any spec to be any good at all
verbal root
if swaping spec it helps if you synchronize your key bindings.. so combo builders are same hotkey... finishers are same hotkey across all specs
dire mulch
I'm not sure if the ravenholdt guide is accounting for the subterfuge talent. maybe the rotation actually doesn't change?
zealous lily
i had to play like 8 M+ and beta also in a row as outlaw to be acceptable at it again in 8.0
i am still not acceptable with sub in 8.0 and would need some practice
wise frigate
Yeah I 100% sync keybinds across specs it's nice. Interrupt is the same keybind on every class in the game for me.
Same with dispells on healers.
zealous lily
i dont really wanna practice with sub in 8.0 prepatch because t21 sub is so terrible
verbal root
Interupts, Self heals, defensive.. its same across all classes for me
zealous lily
I sync similar keybinds across classes as well as specs
it makes it much easier to remember what does what
dire mulch
where do you guys like to practice rotations? specific boss/dummy?
verbal root
dummy.. either in OG or class hall
zealous lily
dummy for a little bit but i think dungeons are a great test environment
that and normal/heroic pugs
verbal root
I like to memorize single target rotation by heart before stepping into instance... at least be able to do opener with eyes closed
dire mulch
i need to buy some stickers of the spell icons and put them all over my monitor
twin tartan
lets be real, sin's ST rotation ain't hard
verbal root
Now you made him feel bad
runic kernel
Did all the nerfs go live yesterday?
I know the 4% one went through. Not sure about the pvp nerfs.
twin tartan
we still gonna kill it, just wait and see
runic kernel
Im just wondering if they went live.
twin tartan
yes, they have
runic kernel
All of them>?
twin tartan
they're hotfixes, they tend to go on within 24 hrs of being posted
runic kernel
I've been doing fine in pvp. Couldnt really tell.
verbal root
need more nerfs then
runic kernel
I figured that they werent live yet.
twin tartan
honestly idk why they're aiming to hit sin aoe with the sub / CT changes since we can alway just spec sub or outlaw 
verbal root
Did the CT nerf went live too?
twin tartan
nah, they just posted it in "live game hotfixes" for shits and giggles unlike the global 4% dmg nerf from a few days ago which got applied to live
snow hamlet
so the nightstalker is the best choice now?
wise frigate
twin tartan
lul
wise frigate
As it has always been and always will be.
The answer to "stat weights" and "talents" is "Sim yourself"
strange python
probably should use nightly
twin tartan
ding ding ding correct answer
fresh ginkgo
few more days 
snow hamlet
the simc didn't live the subterfuge's nerf
wise frigate
And for THAT answer, you can check the Raidbots discord and see when the last Nightly was updated.
fresh ginkgo
what happens if i die before then? 
strange python
you'll get to play it in hell
twin tartan
well is k man, ull have gone having known a better version of sin
snow hamlet
lul, subterfuge is still 100%
wise frigate
Entirely possible tooltip won't be updated till a server restart.
Happens quite often.
fresh heron
^
zealous lily
I only see the moon runes but the math checks out
snow hamlet
maybe because i'm in asian server?
zealous lily
Yeah I mean it was labeled as a live fix; an update to the live servers... it's probably live
snow hamlet
oh
honest compass
Moon runes....
solid nova
There isn't one.
cedar bramble
thx 😃
brisk forge
Simc is your bis list
silk sundial
So what's everyone's opinion on the recent Sin nerfs?
exotic glen
deserved but it doesnt matter because things arent the same at 120
silk sundial
I've always mained sin but I'll probably level and do dungeons as Outlaw but switch to sin for the raid. No clue how the classes play at 120
cedar bramble
hmm i play as sin and ll too but dont know which pecc would be best for raid
indigo cradle
Care about leveling now bro
hoary copper
oak grail
I really enjoy the playstyle of sin, but i fear outlaw might be better when leveling?
late sundial
i will play sub and outlaw while i'm leveling. I really enjoyed leveling as sub in legion.
strange python
i will level as sin
zealous lily
leveling will be over so quickly that you should just pick something fun or /roll 1-3 and go with what the dice tell you to
late sundial
In the end all three specs will be viable to level
zealous lily
MfD as any spec will kill most stuff until you get closer to 120
late sundial
Yeah but that goes with Shadow blades aswell
silk sundial
I was planning on running outlaw because it's fun and because I'll be leveling with a group using kjbw and we'll just aoe mow everything
Sin aoe is good, but too slow
slow stag
i just pray to god that assa is good in max lvl & in raids 😄 would really like to raid with bleeds and poisons
strange python
it will be fine
sudden ravine
This is the variance you're looking at. Asn should be fine, but is technically, the lowest on average. But the difference is so small.
vestal wren
sub seems the most consistent
exotic glen
its also the 6th best spec from like what 20 dps specs
yet people keep spamming assa is dead
nerfs too hard
vestal wren
sin seems fine to me
sudden ravine
hopefully we can get back to playing the ideal spec on ideal fights
strange python
those sims dont have azerite
sudden ravine
oh they dont?
strange python
afaik
exotic glen
@sudden ravine where did you get it
strange python
looks like simc
strange python
?
vestal wren
profiles are not done
exotic glen
do you know if they have azerite on the profile yet fuu?
@strange python i can see the azerite traits
so they do
vestal wren
also i am not sure about the optimization of the classes so...
vestal wren
yes azerite is in, not sure how optimized the gear is tho
exotic glen
vestal wren
i assume some classes do (as always) sandbag their profiles with bad apl's or similar
strange python
neat
vestal wren
(not necessarily on purpose)
strange python
no twist the knife 🤔
exotic glen
mega pogchamp here tho
vestal wren
i remember warriors having a history of purposely not updating the official apl to avoid nerfs
vestal wren
they assume 'blizz will not notice' if they sandbag
verbal root
Did it work?
vestal wren
well no
exotic glen
blizz has internal data