My prydaz was pretty close. like 3rd best.
#assassination
ocean nebula
how much iterations u used? 5k?
strange python
I used smart sim, it says 12k on the results though
you can do a lot more combinations with smart sim setting
chilly obsidian
is there a trinket list somewhere at is accurate? didnt see it in the pins
lone junco
normally it is 100k, and that winds up stopping at like 18k
vestal wren
bloodmallet
vestal wren
that is on intent
lone junco
sure. 0.008 to 0.010 spread
royal lantern
pandaren over velf
vestal wren
i dont like it, tho thats opinion
royal lantern
suck it emo elf scum!
vestal wren
tbh real talk what fight styles seem relevant for raid?
pure st seems to be quite solid as a base, however what additional ones seem relevant
main blaze
Do we still not know what the racials are for zandalari?>
royal lantern
pure st with CT as cleave maybe?
poison bomb is a bit lackluster right now, idk if they change it and you need too take it for st
vestal wren
idk i was tempted to run some sims
lone junco
@vestal wren the hectic add cleave times bother me.
vestal wren
i think a more realistic m+ custom script would probably help evaluate aoe
lone junco
for M+, my sims are pretty set, 8T 20s, 4t 40s, 1T 2min
calm grail
How do you implement MFD in M+? MFD into what during stealth opener on packs?
vestal wren
so i would drop add cleave or similar for that
calm grail
Still garrote then cT?
vestal wren
2 or 3 targets for cleave then additional
lone junco
if you have subterfuge you could easily mark ct garrote.
I play vigor tho.
if you play NS, you coudl mark ct garrote.
calm grail
So just overcap CPS with MFD with Sub window into full cP CT?
lone junco
no.
you have 3 sec
mark ct, garrote garrote
i dunno. I play vigor
garrote garrote garrote, ct mark ct,
lone junco
I used mark for a bit in low stuff.
zealous lily
i think it's kind of hard to objectively say that one setup is perfectly optimized for M+ vs raid
different dungeons have different trash types and counts plus there's teeming vs not teeming
tyrannical in which the boss might actually wipe you if the key's high enough or people suck so it matters more than overall clear speed
lone junco
Sure. We all know this. Especially with no gear swaps.
royal lantern
wait, nature dmg is magical dmg right?
lone junco
I currently run a subterfuge CT cleave. And maintain relatively high single.
royal lantern
shouldnt that mean that the dh debuff will boost the poisons?
lone junco
I assumed so. But not sure tbh.
green cloak
Man gotta love assassin rogues
Beat a lock in a duel and he put me on ignore and said this
golden tartan
Haven't rogues always been pretty hard counters to locks?
calm grail
What X legendary you running for M+ Noobe? Shoulders and?
strange python
shoulders and cloak with subt and CT. its a slight ST loss and huge aoe gain
arctic walrus
With EP do you finisher at 3 CP to keep the buff up or only keep env at 4+?
dire spoke
= 4
honest needle
why are the 210 weapons are dark shore saying its better than my 250 ilvl lego
shouldnt my lego still b better
civic palm
Stop talking to your weapons O _O
shrewd night
Why do you have 250 leggos
honest needle
my lego weapon ilvl is 250
shrewd night
Cool, now that you are being clear - a 210 will not be better than your artifact, but due to the fact that your artifacts per definition is one weapon, instead of two, the game thinks you can dualwield the artifacts AND a secondary weapon
honest needle
im asking why does it say a 210 epic is bettert than my 250 artifact
ok but is 2 of the 210ilvl epics better ?
shrewd night
Sim yourself to find out.
honest needle
u dont kno if they are ?
shrewd night
I can look into my crystal ball, but you should sim yourself.
lone junco
You would need 2 daggers right. Since the artifact is a pair.
royal lantern
@green cloak >complains about faceroll class and plays a warlock, and afflock is the greatest faceroll class ingame lul
summer marsh
What about the Insignia of Ravenholdt Ring makes it better than the bracers? on a target dummy it only does 5% of my overall damage
strange python
it should be even lower than 5%.
lots of legendaries are close. just sim your options.
bold obsidian
hey guys, new to rogue, can anyone tell me which of the 3 specs feels the fastest?
strange python
insignia has great stats some extra dmg.
outlaw has highest apm
maybe the new current sub build with enveloping shadows has apm that is up there too.
bold obsidian
not sin?
royal lantern
sin is slow as hell
strange python
during prepatch with tier and crazyness it's probably pretty high.
bold obsidian
im coming from a demon hunter
so im used to spamming xD
wanted to play something with more skill
hot copper
Man it's so energy starved w/o tier, it's a fucking joke
strange python
well, it's slow, but there is a lot to think about.
hot copper
Bleeds and CP?
bold obsidian
are all 3 specs viable in pve + pve?
royal lantern
nobody can tell
strange python
yeah.
royal lantern
its prepatch pal
hot copper
Both are pretty high, Outlaw is super fastboi depending on rolls
strange python
maybe if the envenom buff and toxic blade and none of our talents existed.
elder estuary
what is a haste cap?
strange python
no haste cap but it starts losing value at around 25% from circumstantial evidence?
elder estuary
Yea i meen that lol
civic palm
Depends on your Crit yeah.
green cloak
@royal lantern you’re right. I don’t even play rogue lul
bold obsidian
hey also one more question
which spec has the most raw mobility
might be a dumb question but im new so xD
strange python
uhhh they all have about the same.
strange python
that is correct.
bold obsidian
dope as hell
strange python
shadowstrike also teleports you to the target if used from stealth.
so yeah I guess sub has the most.
royal lantern
sin has only 1 step and sprint, but you stick too your targets with the slows anyway
ancient fiber
mortal steppe
Loving it so far. Good single target, good cleave, solid in PvP. Can't complain. Combat seems to be a bit stronger in PvP, but I do fine as Mut.
lone junco
neat. exang 10sec single just peaked at 35k dmg.
not bad
yay subterfuge garrote exang vanish env
rancid blaze
@lone junco so you play exang?
dire spoke
the questions here man
lone junco
I did. I dabble.
civic palm
@dire spoke You gotta harden yourself!!
civic palm
Yeah like that 👌
vapid geode
do you guys think shoulders + vigor ring > shoulders + bracers for m+
placid elbow
lul, just got a ilvl 240 dagger from WQ
wind saffron
whats the better lego ring to get first? the shadow one or sephuz?
civic palm
Ravenholdt probably.
real pine
when is the best time to pop Toxic blade? should i be using it before a full stack envenom?
civic palm
on CD.
strange python
want to try and get 2 or 3 envenoms during its duration
also be aware of the cd so you dont have to refresh bleeds during it
lone junco
Lol. Using rupture. Sad day.
open crest
is assassination the best pre 110 leveling spec?
supple hearth
If you like it and it's comfy for you. First like 40 levels or so I prefer outlaw because more buttons to press
vagrant marlin
is it worth more running poison bomb on tyrannical or just stick with CT?
lone junco
ct imo. Pb in best single is still only 2.5%
vagrant marlin
yea thought so
lofty matrix
MP or EP.?Is one superior to the other?
vagrant marlin
ep
lofty matrix
thanks
mortal steppe
You said you peaked at 35K single target? How the heck did you do that?
Highest I've hit on opening burst is 13K
nova aspen
so is haste amazing now?
quiet ginkgo
Yes, it is amazing with sephuz.
lofty matrix
after the opener with EP build do you just play around keeping EP 100% uptime like 3 to 4 cp evenoms while refreshing dots?
quiet ginkgo
Most likely yes.
strange python
4+ envenom
junior flume
Anyone have an idea about why my sims are suddenly quite a bit lower than my actual dps? =/
Using the simc input to do the sim on raidbots
coarse slate
Did sin get ninja nerfed or somethign?
I feel like I'm doing 1.5k dps less than a couple days ago.
coarse slate
Yea, I'm doing alot more as sub now. I don't feel like I've changed anything. Just less damage =/
lofty matrix
crazy how i sim higher with lfr vari trink than a 235 spiked counterweight pretty sure this trinks buns.
split grail
Does pandemic effect garrote now?
north terrace
Pandemic always worked for garrote
It's just that now the cooldown is low enough that you can always take advantage of it
But even back with t20 and the reduced cooldown you could pandemic it
split grail
Huh, I never noticed
civic palm
Could pandemic it without T20 or the new CD reduction. Just wasn't perfect.
oh bby this SUB empowerment will work :3
ooooooooooooobby
mmmmmmmmmmmboi
half prawn
/wa
quaint hawk
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/17#class=Rogue&spec=Assassination so all logs are showing eleborate planning>blindside, what gives
civic palm
It's mathematically better.
fresh wind
Blindside is only so much "better" than mutilate.
You're boosting a piece of your damage by a bit, vs all
In some fights it might be better, like ones that take forever. Or ones where the execute face is super mobile
faze**
civic palm
phase*
weak oak
just getting back into the game what are the talents you guys use?
stopped midway through legion
lone junco
@weak oak there is a noob guide in the channel header.
azure vapor
can i still get the hidden artifact apperance ?
warm parcel
Sure
ashen fulcrum
best race to run rogue atm?
warm parcel
Overcome what?
supple hearth
Gotta have more context than that lol
primal sphinx
soakers
strange python
depends on the spec, I think for sub it's Belf>UD>Troll now but for Assassination it's Troll>>>Belf>Nightborne
primal sphinx
Dark iron for pvp i presume?
fleet whale
the arena forums have threads saying that cloak and sprint should be on the gcd imagine how much that would suck lol
primal sphinx
it already feels like they are
fleet whale
what
primal sphinx
hunters have a 30 sec CoS
warm parcel
charred moat
primal sphinx
oh and 99% dmg reduc
supple hearth
@primal sphinx dark iron racial is on gcd with trinket making it pretty bad
primal sphinx
90 sec CD i think
supple hearth
yeah its pretty bad
primal sphinx
rogues only die in stuns
supple hearth
Orc for horde
umbral crown
primal sphinx
off topic here any try some high upper keys lately?
primal sphinx
upper?
steep obsidian
also there is an offtopic channel
primal sphinx
sorry
steep obsidian
i think i did a 17 upper and 3 chested it
but people died to the beam coz they said it was bugged
steep obsidian
lol
primal sphinx
on last boss
3rd phase adds hitting 3k each
thought i was losing it
thanks for the confirm
quiet ginkgo
Check the guide above
hardy anchor
oh naice
primal sphinx
pot on 2 ven on 1
hardy anchor
Cheers!
quiet ginkgo
old war?
hardy anchor
Can't wait to get 110 and start doin' actual content. Just slugged through like 20 Bloodmaul Slag Mines in a row and I want to die.
primal sphinx
crit haste my man 😃
quiet ginkgo
There is no actual content as of now lol
primal sphinx
i actually didnt believe it at first
hardy anchor
Probably a dumb question, but does swing timer have any effect on DPS or is spamming abilities just the way to go?
primal sphinx
just keep up that dumb talent buff
shrewd night
Swing timer has no real impact no.
hardy anchor
gud shit.
rustic ether
any experts or knowledgable people know if i should use DN before or after Vendetta
shrewd night
DN?
rustic ether
Deez Nuts
zealous dew
sup with all this yellow stuff in here ?
primal sphinx
GOT EM
shrewd night
Definitely after btw for the energy gain
rustic ether
ah kk
steep obsidian
you changed your name @shrewd night ?
steep obsidian
but new name is also misleading coz not true either 😛
zealous dew
i thought they would change your color back to a proper spec
supple mesa
Man if sure is going to be weird keeping garrot and rupture on all targets in bfa
shrewd night
You make it sound like it wasnt the case in legion
supple mesa
I started playing this game at the end of tomb
I’ve been babies with t21 4pc
Babied
rustic ether
okay so im learning sin from the ground up guys
imma be in year day and night pestering people like i did for SV in legion lol
do you spam blindside instead of mutilate at execute phase?
solid nova
Use Blindside if you have a proc and not on full cp, always below 30%.
90% of what you need is here:
http://www.ravenholdt.net/battle-for-azeroth-quickstart-guides/
supple mesa
^
solid nova
And tbh, im surprised Blindisde is simming above MP and EP for you.
marsh talon
shrewd night
Depends on playstyle
supple mesa
Mantle sephuz imo
dire spoke
it's not mantle for me, so use gear-compare on raidbots to find out
strange python
Gear compare is going to give you the value over a long fight, while leveling you're in a ton of small fights giving you a much higher % uptime of the buff 😃
dire spoke
just woke up and overlooked the leveling ... still you could set to 20s simulation if you're funny, but yeah
jaunty bear
which pinned link is about the spec discussion?
charred moat
So sin is on top of the dps in antorus atm very nice
undone girder
Antorus does not really matter anymore though... Things will change in the coming month(s) - Bye bye tier set bonuses, and legendaries... Hello Azerite Traits and balance changes
dire spoke
@jaunty bear none, if you want to read through something head to http://de.wowhead.com/news=283424/battle-for-azeroth-community-opinions-class-changes-and-state-of-rogues
jaunty bear
my impression is that sublety is generally the most sustained damage for raiding which is what I'll primarily be doing. That way off?
dire spoke
nobody can make a statement on how specs are going to be like in Uldir
expect changes
jaunty bear
being the assassination guy, what'd you prefer in that spec?
dire spoke
being able to multi-DoT if the encounter allows that, I play rogue because I like all specs - not the strongest one
if otl will be fotm I'll be yellow
jaunty bear
otl seems really fun
frozen pecan
what are you guys playing for leveling?
dire spoke
probably sub
quick current
are there any guides for pvp sin builds?
frozen pecan
reason zempai?
dire spoke
@quick current check out the pins in #pvp
@frozen pecan teleporting and healthy on demand aoe
dire spoke
nothing 🙃
restive bluff
hey folks
i use hero rotation addon for my assassin rogue and i'm wondering whether or not i should spam envenom in my rotation when i have the energy needed or should i just POOL as is shown by the addon?
dire spoke
you pool to clip either EP or Env or you'll be starved quite quickly if you need it for real
the only time spamming Envenom is inside TB
frozen pecan
what do you mean clip? I'm not up to date as it seems
dire spoke
you hit Envenom on 0.1s EP so it can profit from the buff
strange python
someone who can help me with assassination?
dire spoke
there are 13k people in here, just ask
shrewd night
inb4 pinned question
balmy condor
inb4 what legendaries do we use
old pike
Hello could someone help me sim assasination rogue with bfa ivl 350 gear? I need exact stats with future gear
old pike
dude I need just stats
shrewd night
We cant tell you
old pike
So I can sim myself
old pike
did you even read what I said?
frozen pecan
Ilvl 350 wtf lol
spiral vortex
Just pick gear from journal and set ilvl to 350 or w/e
quick ice
he's not looking for weights, he's looking for an example profile
old pike
No I need the amount of primary and secondyry stats with 350ivl. 350ilvl is not on live yet, so I need someone with beta access
old pike
I don't know of any other way. They aren't in journal
spiral vortex
They are though
strange python
@shrewd night bruh man stop roasting me
charred moat
👀
old pike
Okay I guess they are in journal 😄 Still gotta sum them up 😒 Any more good ideas?
fresh robin
why are rogues using sephuz over ravenholdt
on fights where they cant proc sephuz?
am i missing something?
charred moat
2% haste bros
shrewd night
@fresh robin Sim doesnt account for the proc unless you change it
fresh robin
what do u mean
solid nova
You realise that the stats at 350 ilvl can vary quite drastically due to wf/tf right?
Taking journal base values isnt going to give you any definitive data
shrewd night
Simming for bfa stuff before tuning tho 
old pike
Alright, It doen't have to be exact, just close enough so I get ratios between primary and secondary amounts
old pike
Like if agi:haste:wepDmg ratio is like 1:5:2 is what I need
@warm parcel Where can I find those
@warm parcel That's clearly the best idea
warm parcel
spiral vortex
balmy condor
inb4 he sims and it gets balanced a week before uldir
old pike
What do you thing they gonna double amount of primary stat and halve the haste or something @balmy condor
icy iris
with what settings should i sim? I know it depends on the fight but like in general
spiral vortex
357/360 it seems
balmy condor
they can definitely change haste scaling or balance abilities around. If we move back to a poison build for example because poison bomb gets buffed, your stats are going to change, if exsang gets buffed, your stats are going to change
if you don't get the right azerite pieces to drop
shrewd night
@old pike Imagine if balancing of spells and skills didnt make a dent in your stat weights
charred moat
If i have to play outlaw im going to freak
balmy condor
@icy iris 5 minute light movement is usually a solid all round pick
lot of people prefer patchwerk though
old pike
I don't need weights anyway, just need ratios so I have idea for siming general talents races and trinkets
shrewd night
wat
solid nova
So I can understand this properly, in case i've missed something
You're looking for a definitive ratio between primary and secondary stats?
Based on the gear available in the journal?
warm parcel
Well, its universal for that ilvl
old pike
No, someone suggested looking at logs, which is better idea
jovial kite
old pike
If I sim that I get better idea what shit gonna be good
balmy condor
something in this line of thinking is mad stinky bruh
restive bluff
should we use fok on 2 targets or just go on with the single target rotation and keep rupture and garrote on both?
restive bluff
!pins
restive bluff
what do u mean by !pins 😄
hazy iron
can't find anything in my sim report.. but is gnawed thumb ring in the APL? pretty noob at reading full sim reports
restive bluff
aha ok
icy iris
am i doing something wrong? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xhMa5dUp6vsg9GP8BPkruy shouldnt i sim higher with insig + seph
balmy condor
just cause a lot of people are running insig/seph doesn't mean its your best setup
thats why we sim
icy iris
ye
fresh robin
yeah i just didnt understand the interrupt thing
but i forgot it gave the base 2% haste
missed that tid bit :X
charred moat
Very powerful
fresh robin
fo sure
charred moat
Im up to 40% haste at 220 atm
balmy condor
thats pretty crazy though
cause I'm at 240ish depending on gear set, with haste/crit or haste/mast on most of my stuff, and a haste trinket
and im only at 34%
charred moat
Yeah ive got a lot of sockets and a haste trinket plus arcano
Haste on everything aswell
Even the weapons so no kingsbane
balmy condor
I also never got an eye of command over whatever a mythic14 dropped
nor did I ever have a scourgewing drop
fringe phoenix
is there a general breakpoint for haste?
balmy condor
nope
royal lantern
i never got a arcano
balmy condor
just keep simming till it tells you to stop
balmy condor
probably isnt and just equipped for secondary stat pipe dream
40% haste at 220 is still whack tho
shrewd night
Sick ass dot spread, but hits for like 2 damage
balmy condor
yeah
I made a full haste set on the first day of prepatch and ran exsang
cackled like a maniac but everyone was asking why my damage sucked so much
charred moat
Yeah ive got like no trinkets havent done any antorus other than lfr on the character
Simming for 3700 I think
vocal wave
How many seconds must a mob be alive for, for Rupture to do more dmg than an Envenom?
I'd test it at home, but not at home
charred moat
14.82 seconds
oblique sky
legendary shoulders are still biss right?
dire spoke
maybe
oblique sky
xd
dire spoke
weak pine
Rupture gives back energy
Half the time when fighting thrash low level monsters I rupture to get energy back
charred moat
vocal wave
Also, I know on 2/3 mobs CT is the prior, but is there ever a point where spamming CT as the finisher is a better choice once you hit a specific mob count? At which point does using CT over Envenom every spender become a better choice? My knowledge on Sin is low, and till getting to grips with it
I mean, I'm talking about M+ mainly tbh, mobs rarely last 15 seconds atm, so I'm doubting using Rupture at all on mobs at that stage
charred moat
Speaking of m+ i really like the subterfuge garrote iron wire spam
royal lantern
if you dont use rupture at all you will b energy starved in seconds
charred moat
15% less damage on everything
dire spoke
clicking spells gives you extra 5% haste
fallow escarp
🤔
dire spoke
@fallow escarp 
charred moat
Ive noticed the DK discord has a lot more anime emotes than this one
solid nova
Ok
charred moat
Worrying
vocal wave
So even on mobs that last only 15 seconds or so, it's still worth using Rupture?
shrewd night
Its worrying because we have less weebs, or because you just learned the truth about dks?
late crater
The Lich King probably has an entire chamber devoted to body pillows
royal lantern
anime was a mistake
solid nova
lone junco
@vocal wave fights that last 20 sec or less. No rupture.
If you have vigor and can weave in env enough for the buff, your e should hang in there.
As the trash dies off and you transition into a few mobs you can do a low cp rupture if you get a bad FOK crit
all this is dependant on garroting with subterfuge and. 4p21
vocal wave
Alright, cheers. What about for CT? What's the mob threshold where using CT exclusively as the finisher is the better choice over envenom?
Like, at 2-3 mobs, should we just keep CT bleed up and Envenom, and after 6+ mobs just exclusively use CT?
I see
I do not have any tier atm on my Rogue
lone junco
It's probably not that low
vocal wave
So would this change much for a nontiered character?
lone junco
I ran sims of 8 mob and rupture was a loss.
Tier feeds energy from FOK
(Poison application)
Without it. Rupture feeds energy when the mob dies. So the first few seconds aren't that important.
vocal wave
I see
lone junco
With 2 ~3 mobs. Maintain garrote and rupture.
vocal wave
Only if they live over 20 seconds though
lone junco
Low mob count you will use env.
You won't Ct singles.
I'm not worried about prepatch. But I'll run more sims at 120 to get a clear breakpoint.
Napkin math is that. As long as Env hit is worth more than the Ct hit x mob count, you need to maintain Ct and hammer envs
The rupture condition is pretty easy to take out of the apl. You can do that for an array of mob counts if you like.
I'm guessing it's about 4-5
But I would probably rupture the priority add in a pack if I get a low cp FOK.
But that's just me.
And without gear or tier. I'm not even going to attempt to guess what happens.
Maintain your subterfuge garrotes. 👌
You can run 20s 40s 60s sims. Whether or not you rupture and how many, will be something that will be ironed out. But also very very subject to change with any future balancing.
solid nova
"We concluded it would be better to differentiate between chat moderators (Shadowblades) and Guidewriters/Coaches/Theorycrafters/Contributors/etc"
Confusing roles there @zealous dew
zealous dew
my bad but he deserves a good spot
shrewd pine
did you read tooltip of the subterfuge talent?
what does it say?
oh I can
Also causes Garrote to deal 100% increased damage and have no cooldown when used from Stealth and for 3 sec after breaking Stealth
cuz it says quite clearly when you get the damage from the talent
lone junco
I use shoulder and subterfuge.
Found a really strong opener in logs.
Open into TB env mut mut env. Then as the subterfuge 1 is dropping vanish into a refresh. Vanish env garrote mut env.
I'll be running a 4p2p m+ for lols tonight. The damage profile for garrote is silly.
elfin fossil
so you're skipping the first initial garrote?
lone junco
No.
lone junco
Garrote mut rupture. Vendetta mut tb env mut mut env.
elfin fossil
Yea
lone junco
Garrote mut rupture. Vendetta mut tb env mut mut env.
There is a strong log at the top of heroic Varith.
cobalt bobcat
thats the basic opener tbh
elfin fossil
I usually garrote mut rupture, vendetta, tb then mut, but maybe it's better for env?
to mut > tb?
lone junco
I just put the tb at the end for better env window.
elfin fossil
Makes sense
lone junco
About 3/4 of the way trough Varith last night I was holding 8.5k dps. Until I got the aids and my garrote dropped.
I actually yelled. 9k Wtf.
lone junco
241 I think. Quite the gap.
lone junco
I'd like to. But pb is so shitty and no conc. No bota.
Not a lot of ways to catch up. Literally just trinket procs.
elfin fossil
Yeah
royal bronze
Anyone know why majority of top sin rogues are running Mantle in ATB?
lone junco
People wondering about shoulder subterfuge. A single garrote is worth at min 20k damage. You aren't missing out on your env bonus. And you still get 2 crit envs.
royal bronze
10/15 running Mantle (Top M Arg)
lone junco
Zing.
zealous dew
oh look which trinket comes ahead 😃
lone junco
I had a stong pop from that trinket last night.
Was vanishing for lols and it peaked to 15k.
steep obsidian
its dumb it does more dmage then any taoe trinket i have in m+
lone junco
7k+5k dmg per proc about. Right?
steep obsidian
it averages out about 5% of damage in most m+ i do
zealous dew
lucky 😃
steep obsidian
sometimes a bit more
steep obsidian
i havent been running shoulders in dung just coz its different
and doing the 3 garrotes is kinda fun
zealous dew
i still sim better insig + bracers
steep obsidian
rather then just spam fok or whatever
zealous dew
but having no haste gear rip
i'm at like 6.1 or so, no clue haven't touched rogue in a while
steep obsidian
i have lots of diff gearsets /shrug
lone junco
The garrotes crit up to 5k per. Shoulders are always there for the subterfuge and sephuz. I don't see a problem.
steep obsidian
currently running 27% haste 39% crit
lone junco
Prob same.
ESP if you have 3 garrote. Vanish 3more. 6 subterfuge in shoulder.
8-10 sec of crit on first pack is full sephuz.
steep obsidian
i love it how every idiot uses sephuz now and we all get mad at ninjaing each others procs
lone junco
I heard all the bitching last night on high command.
I kidney and blind and garrote and kick.
Gimme.
steep obsidian
yeh
lone junco
@zealous dew you still in a raid squad?
lone junco
Have you tried the 4p20 yet?
zealous dew
nop 😃
lone junco
Saliathan has been posting some good numbers.
Garrote all the things. 9k overall. Said it's really busy with the garrote and Ct spams.
zealous dew
yeah garrote dmg is nuts
steep obsidian
i mean if you could get high enough ilvl
t20 would be pretty fuckin good
you can put garrotte on errything
zealous dew
i had all 930-935
lone junco
Mine is a massive up for the large pack numbers
zealous dew
not sure what's now
steep obsidian
gartotte is like my highest damage in the m+ i been doing without shoulders
zealous dew
dunno i did a 25 NL last week and CT was highest
lone junco
It only buffs during env.
zealous dew
rand shoulders / sephuz
lone junco
Same. Ct is nice.
zealous dew
guy was pulling like 3-4 mobs only
lone junco
Prob need to balance 4p20 with some actual single target.
steep obsidian
i havent been running ct but we havent done a key higher then a 19 so the need to min max is low
lone junco
Pull 3. Garrote x3. And ye shall be god.
zealous dew
yep true
steep obsidian
not enojying the long cd vendetta
lone junco
Ct is nice for something to do for worms. And imps and shitter trash.
lone junco
I'll be bummed when our crit/haste drops out and we go to blindside/vr and can't aoe for shit.
wheat zealot
A better single target option other than poison bomb would be nice lol
lone junco
2.7% and feeling strong.
exang alignment is so bad. You have to either delay the second by 30sec or you start using out of sync with vendetta and never get a vanish alignment again.
hazy iron
flat portal
Should i be using Old war pots or Prolonged power ? 😄
zealous dew
you can sim that mate
raidbots option you can let sim decide or specify what yo uwant to use
flat portal
ah i see, didnt realise thanks 😃
zealous dew
and I probably should take a class in grammar
lone junco
@hollow cloak not a bad run. now I wish I hadnt liquidated all my old war a month ago
frosty robin
inb4 old war outsimming 120 pots unnerfed
lone junco
@frosty robin did you see some of the 4p20 numbers from M+?
0 cd garrote, just tab them all and spam ct.
vestal wren
maybe
hidden oasis
boooring
solid nova
!warn @frosty robin I appreciate the bot spam, but don't try and evade filtering 😉
chrome tuskBOT
Alright, @frosty robin has been warned because 'I appreciate the bot spam, but don't try and evade filtering 😉'.
frosty robin
jesus christ.
hoary copper
Yes my child?
shrewd pine
There is really good way to solve that. Right click on RH icon on left pannel and then proceed to hover over leave server and click it.
*Might require additional confirmation.
dire spoke
primal tendon
I only have the cloak to use for Assassination. Any idea on what to buy as my second? Mantle, Ravenholdt or maybe bracers?
dire spoke
mantle for leveling
frosty robin
bite me theri
primal tendon
@dire spoke Lvling in BfA, you mean?
shrewd pine
Yes he does. When else?
primal tendon
Shit man i dunno I have been off this game for a while 😦
hoary copper
You can also sim for the leggos you dont have
primal tendon
Im rusty aight
dire spoke
No I mean for Rise of the Leper Gnomes actually
shrewd pine
aight bro
hoary copper
Sephuz is a good choice too, movement and haste
dire spoke
🙃
keen inlet
@frosty robin You're not new here, you know the drill, take it to off-topic. Thanks
wet yew
Hey guys, bfa is gonna be my first addon in terms of preparation for raiding, my question is, how did the dark moon trinket performed for the legion start, did ppl use it and was it any good? If so, will we be using the new one probably too?
hoary copper
We didnt really use it, so probably not
wet yew
Ok, thank you
hoary copper
Depends on how they tune things, I cant say definitively one way or another
wet yew
I know, just wanted a vague suggestion
hoary copper
🔮
shrewd pine
There were classes that utilized darkmoon trinkets heavily. But I dont think rogues were one of those classes.
frosty robin
@keen inlet oki 😃
darkmoon as good for first tier, it was basically a 860 stat stick worth and EN had trash trinkets
after that no rogue used it probably
wet yew
Ty
solid phoenix
Rupture on 4+ combo points? or 5 only
dire spoke
= 4
hoary copper
Use finishers at 4+ if you can
solid phoenix
sweet, thx
lone junco
Rupture doesn't scale anything anymore. You can 1cp for all I care. If it fits in the rotation.
Just not NS rupture. But prob should be subterfuge
Ct scales with cps for the hit. So 4/5 is good.
Env buff duration scales with cps. So 4/5 is good.
inner pecan
I mean you obv wanna try to always Rupture at 4/5 because it's just more energy-efficient
even if it doesn't scale with CP
wheat zealot
Well yeah, the only time you would really want to force a rupture with less than 4 would be if TB was about to come off cooldown
trail epoch
how are we looking in m+ so far?
primal sigil
pre patch ? good. BfA .. id say.. nothing extraordinary
oblique pendant
form what I've heard sub is currently top rogue spec in bfa m+
primal sigil
yeah have seen multiple streams where they are doing fantastic
spc due to infested
i do see most rogues go outlaw though since it fairs well in both m+ and raiding.
oblique pendant
and it's easier to handle than sub
primal sigil
well id disagree there.. sub in m+ is mindless and easier than OL.. well imo atleast.. raiding though movement still is subs enemy
unreal coyote
is it warm in here or just me?
oblique pendant
how's ur burning going?
strange python
I have that effect on people, sorry
wet yew
🤔
❤
river citrus
Will you guys use shoulders and cloak for leveling?
just tried it out with the pvp talent
40k to mobs
gleaming geyser
Shoulders yea, cloak got nerfed... Might just use KJ
plain thistle
probably shoulder+sephuz or something like that
lone junco
Does anyone have a log including some kidney bleeds? I've heard it is really strong with the sephuz proc. Just wondering how strong.
My guess from a details breakdown was that it might be more than a BTE
And if you exang, will the bleed run. Vendetta Garrote mut mut kidney exang
(M+ of course.)
cerulean lava
Is Rogue good in BFA
flat fox
Question. When I sim my dps on raidbots it comes back as 3.5k dps is it realistic that I can hit that most encounters? Because most I’ve ever gotten in single target or multi target is like 2.6k
strange python
yes
raidbots sim is single target patchwerk by default
patchwerk means no mechanics or movement
so perhaps realistically if you are doing mechanics it will be lower but it is trustworthy so see what you are capable of. if you are far behind your sims then chances are you're doing something wrong.
flat fox
Dam I’m doing something real wrong theb
flat fox
Ya I’ll be going through that. I thought I had a decent grasp
I get logs through Warcraft logs? If so I just made an account and haven’t done a mythic with the addon installed.
strange python
you can type in your name on warcraftlogs.com and see if someone already logged anything recent that you did
strange python
make sure you have advanced combat logging enabled
exotic widget
What spec / legos ppl using for fastest lvling possible??
lone junco
I use the desktop tool for live logging raids as well.
exotic widget
i was thinking ass , cloak build with shoulders
strange python
shoulders, sephuz, KJ's BW, crafted boots
lone junco
FASTEST LEVELING POSSIBLE. Very important
strange python
it's true
exotic widget
some people want fast levelling some don't which is why i specified
strange python
i'll experience the zones on my main
lone junco
Shoulders sephuz for me. Outlaw
strange python
other toons just want to be fast
dire spoke
why would you level fast it's not like you have an advantage from it
strange python
il be running Shoulders with either Cloak/KJ/Soul in Ass
exotic widget
done it on beta
lone junco
If you are running 4toons I guess it makes sense.
exotic widget
good to be time efficient if u have kids
strange python
Having MFD and Vigor while leveling seems like it'l help a lot imo
lone junco
I got to 116 beta without copy and nothing was hard. Just a lot of riding around the desert.
exotic widget
yeh but i'm lvling atleast 2 ppl if not 3
lone junco
Sephuz run speed seems good. Shoulder is god.
exotic widget
fighter chow is awesum too
lone junco
That azerite trait is shit compared to 100% crit.
strange python
i dont have Sephuz on my Rogue Feelsbadman
lone junco
Min max
strange python
i did, Rogue was an Alt for the last of BFA
lone junco
Just make sure to run in a group. The rest is prob irrelevant.
strange python
didnt get Sephuz out of free leggos
weak oak
anyone use weakauras? and has a encoded string i can import
dont feel like setting mine up again
strange python
ayy tyty
exotic widget
the sub blinks are pretty cool for lvling
but the ass cloak build is 1 shot packs and use aoe on demand trinket for next pack ur good
weak oak
what do i copy over? 😮
strange python
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM and click "Copy Weakaura Import Strings"
hoary copper
I use an addon called loggerhead it logs for me
I just have to upload
oops that was old convo
strange python
how good are Ass/Outlaw rogues for Island Exploration?
dire spoke
strange python
wheat zealot
supple hearth
🤔
round pilot
whats the better spec for M+ especially? only saw sub rogues on warcraft logs
half prawn
Anyone know if you still have to research two legendary equips? Im about to boost a rogue
round pilot
yes you have to
strange python
So just boosted a rogue before pre-patch, so have only played a few weeks but planning on raiding on him. I'm finding the rotation pretty damn easy. What's going to seperate an orange parsing sin rogue vs a purlple parsing sin rogue. Most specs have some like micro adjustments you can make or track to boost yourself up. I'm not seeing that with sin rogue with the loss of kingsbane or maybe I just don't know. Any opinions/ ideas?
@misty topaz check the pinned messages
hmmmmm
peak dome
would somebody care to explain this? http://i65.tinypic.com/2uymvqq.jpg
misty topaz
where is it
misty topaz
ty!
wise frigate
I feel like Pawn is a bit fucky now that we readded weapon DPS to the weights.
peak dome
fair enough
stiff mountain
does vendetta break stealth?
strange python
@strange python I would say properly preparing for toxic blade, having the gear to clip elaborate planning but also knowing when to back off, not wasting combo points
@stiff mountain no
thorny jasper
so i swapped over from sub and i havent played mut at all since siege
strange python
sooo many logs where people press toxic blade and then immediately refresh rupture
thorny jasper
do mutilate/envenom have a chance to apply extra dp procs
fleet whale
mutilate does
strange python
so does envenom
thorny jasper
am i just trying to fit as many non-rupture globals as possible in?
strange python
everything except your dots will proc dp including auto attacks
fleet whale
the mainly proc from auto attacks in fact
thorny jasper
so avoid refreshing rupture during tb/vendetta?
fleet whale
they*
strange python
vendetta is fine
don't want to refresh during toxic blade
but you also don't want your bleeds to fall off
so you have to prepare for the cd
thorny jasper
kk
fleet whale
garrote during tb isn't the worst thing in the world however
fleet whale
in fact it can help you get to 5 cps to hit an envenom
zealous dew
you can even fit 4 if you lucky with crit
thorny jasper
so im only going for 3 if im going to cap
zealous dew
at least before this stupid patch
fleet whale
you can still get 4 i think if you use shoulders
thorny jasper
and ideally i want to be on 3/4cp before tb?
thorny jasper
ya but non-controllable crit
zealous dew
doesn't matter 3 + tb + finish
strange python
could even do a 3cp rupture before tb
playing without subterfuge and shoulders , what do you use nightstalker on? envenom or rupture?
@strange python i'm not sure i understand what clipping elaborate planning is? i've been wondering if its better to try and have a high constant uptime of elaborate planning or to over write it with another envenom so that the envenom itself gets the damage boost, not even sure if elaborate planning ups the damage of subsequent envenoms. THanks for the reply btw about toxic blade, just what i was looking for!
yes you clip elaborate planning with envenom just before it runs out so the envenom gets the 10% bonus
need very good crit and haste to pull it off constantly over the course of the fight
but eventually you will run out of steam
so you have to know when to back off to the envenom buff
'cause if you just push yourself and run out of energy it's hard to get back into pacing yourself
unfortunately in bfa when we lose our tier 21, and at 120 the stat scaling is much lower, elaborate planning will probably be too hard to keep up with on single target
which sucks, I think it is a much more engaging talent than master poisoner or blindside
kind of rambling at this point
yeah im worried about that, i do like the talent as well for a little extra thing to game, maybe in a few raid tiers our stats will be back up but i wouldn't know
ok thanks again
👍
dunno if I will be sticking with assassination in bfa.
fleet whale
honestly I've never understood the hype behind EP and Surge... yeah it separated better assassin rogues from others but in the end of the day it didn't really change much in terms of gameplay
the spec has always been about envenom uptime
what i do want back is kingsabne
strange python
but EP becomes your priority
fleet whale
Kingsbane*
if Kingsbane came back in any way i would be perfectly fine with assassination
strange python
you see I could flip that argument around
kingsbane was just a big dot you press on cooldown
fleet whale
it's damage went up with poison applications
strange python
yes
fleet whale
plus i like juggling around TB and KB... gave assassination a pretty interesting dynamic
fleet whale
it was also a nice "feel" good button
thorny jasper
ok thats what i thought ty
stiff mountain
u wudnt use rupture during the opener with shoulders wud u ?
try fit in envenoms or ?
plain thistle
yes you rupture on the opener with shoulders
otherwise you wont have energy for the entire rotation
hollow raptor
check pin in that channel.
steady hearth
kk ty sorry
dark token
Any noticeable difference leveling between the 3 specs in BFA?
I have all legendaries for leveling, but prob end up playing sin in BFA just was wondering if leveling was significantly faster in a different spec
At the start of legion I remember outlaw was best due to Archy trinket
lone junco
@dark token seeing how it's not live yet, and any answer would be based on current speculation and alpha/beta leveling. All 3 are fine. I prefer outlaw because hook is cool.
unreal coyote
🔥 im sure it will be easy to level as any spec 🔥
zealous lily
in bfa all specs even with bad gear are pretty good
from my experience sub had some downtime problems just because i had to wait for SoD
outlaw kills really fast at all gear levels with MfD
assassin when you gear is shit at fresh 120 you might have to stun a little bit and kite on some pulls but that goes away with gear.
if you have solid gear you will blink through the first 5-6 levels as entire zones evaporate before you
if you want to easily kill everything without getting hit much hard to beat outlaw with all the front loaded damage.
the thing is under 117 or so most things won't hit you hard enough for any spec to give you much downtime... it's only the level 120 cliff in which there are substantial spec differences that even out with gear
keen inlet
Mame's experience was similar to mine.
I found leeching poison to be good regen post-117
Whereas outlaw I'd depend on grand melee rolls sometimes
(I didn't try sub on beta. Wasn't going to bother until Sectec was finished and then prepatch hit)
jovial vault
I found it easier as sin over outlaw leveling was gonna do one more run as sub before launch and see how that goes
summer timber
so whats your guys thoughts on the three rogue spec atm? think we will be viable in the early raid tiers?
exotic glen
ill fucking gouge my eyes if i need to read this one more time
gentle crown
lol
hoary copper
I got something you can use to do it Argonic
cerulean ibex
look like 2 text above your question lol
exotic glen
hit me buren
wise frigate
Is it a spoon?
exotic glen
bruen
hoary copper
Everything is viable, because nothing is tuned.
summer timber
but you cant target yourself with gouge
hoary copper
Its a BIG spoon birb
exotic glen
yeah go play warrior
gentle crown
^
supple mesa
Or feral
wise frigate
My SPOON is too big.
supple mesa
I hear feral is best
exotic glen
feral LOL
wise frigate
Nah go Enhance.
hoary copper
DM pics for science
wise frigate
Best spec rn and in BFA.
smoky bluff
Ele shaman
hoary copper
Spriest is the real way
cerulean ibex
hybrit classes are way to strong with there healing
gentle crown
Yeah, but who wants to play a purple blop
exotic glen
oh gouge eyes
wise frigate
I'd be lying if I said I didn't agree Argo. My old guild has 2 Enhances and they're slightly upset rn.
summer timber
ok i read though haha thanks for the pre info
gentle crown
Shaman tears give me fuel
exotic glen
???
gentle crown
they always cry about something
royal lantern
isnt it tradition at this point that blizzard fucks over shamans every expac?
hoary copper
I think telling someone to kill themselves prob is
gentle crown
It is Known
summer timber
look shaman have gotten the shaft how offten now every time they are "good" they get nurfed into the ground the following patch
hoary copper
Enhance felt ok in legion but you're basically a piece of paper
Shaman arent usually good for long as history goes
wide delta
which buff food do u guys use
royal lantern
well, spirit link alone safe's a raid spot
summer timber
ya they get "overtuned" at the start of expacs then they slowly fall back off the spectrum to healing towards the end
well i mean the DPS mainly healers are always solid for shammy
spirit link saves lives
royal lantern
or mainstat
hoary copper
Resto output is pretty poopy, only thing that saves them is their mastery
summer timber
do assasin dots tick faster with haste?
summer timber
ill read them haha
cerulean ibex
you can read the abilitys
hoary copper
spare hawk
i like turtles
round harbor
Ruined
copper sinew
lul, just in time
balmy stump
spare hawk
easy @copper sinew
dire spoke
do we still TB on CD
summer timber
ok so im just double checking cuz i did read the guide and the pins but it did not give a clear cut answer to the queation i had. Does haste increase the number of tickst bleeds and posions do? (i feel like its yes since the main stat is haste but just want to make sure)
ok
thank
you
lone junco
It doesn't shorten the duration. It makes the 2sec tick at like 1.2s -1.5s
Depending on lust and haste levels.
summer timber
got it thank you
lone junco
Good change imo. At least we dont have a dead stat. And lust matters now.
uneven bolt
It's true that, now, bis leggos for sin are Sephuz/Insignia?
nimble tartan
Not true for me :)