Let what drop for a sec? The point of the opening Vanish is to get the Garrote reapplied with Subterfuge buff during the pandemic window.
#assassination
wise frigate
undone lodge
i think i hold for vanish until garrote is less than 6 sec
then i vanish and garrote
green summit
RIP Tier sets
lone junco
wise frigate
That's a lot of fucking Garrote lmao
zealous lily
hmmm
undone lodge
@lone junco so the best built atm is 4p T20 and 2p T21?
slow mortar
would you shy away from insignia of raven during fortified (non-teeming) weeks?
lone junco
@undone lodge nah. im just messing around.
mostly for M+ trash
specifically on fights where you can proc sephuz
stark solar
civic palm
no
undone lodge
@lone junco ah okay thanks
ornate gazelle
gorshalach's legacy or pantheon trinket in m+?
balmy stump
best legendaries?
civic palm
honest compass
@ornate gazelle id say pantheon
More reliable procs
Rather than waiting for stacks
onyx falcon
JW anyone here actually race change to troll yet?
onyx falcon
yea... i always forget some races are side specific
honest compass
Female Void elves are sexy mfs though
delicate crater
should I be getting more DPS out of PB that CT in M+ or am I just bad?
honest compass
CT should replace envenom in your rotation
Youโre probably using envenom with ct
strange python
I have to use shoulders+cini, sims the highest for me with master poisoner and nightstalker. So my opener is garrote-muti-rapture-vend-toxic blade-vanish, which brings me with 2cp inside vanish. should i dump the 2cp right into a envenom? Because i am wasting 1 cp for a quick muti but have a big envenom
strange python
That seems reasonable
Will try out because it felt awkward
Since the opener is different from CP and subtefurge
honest compass
Do you have mantle ?
echo sphinx
something I couldn't see in guides, if we are using blindside, we still maintain garrote in execute window correct?
civic palm
We don't use Blindside @ 110.
Did it SIM better for you?
civic palm
But yeah, maintain DoTs, use Blindside on proc.
Still need that Energy regen from Venomous Wounds.
echo sphinx
k i thought so, but wanted to double check thanks
civic palm
๐
azure vapor
honest compass
Bracers and shoulders imo
civic palm
Sephuz is good as well, Prydaz for not getting dismounting for leveling is nice as well.
patent leaf
Why are you linking them as if we dont know the rogue legos
patent leaf
Shoulders and ring i would say
honest compass
Sephuz is only good if you can proc it I thought
honest compass
It simmed lower than bracers for me
civic palm
Sephuz SIMs are still without interrupting anything for the proc.
honest compass
In all cases
dense minnow
It shouldnโt
civic palm
Need context on that, as if it's simming even 1% under something else, if you find an interrupt somewhere then it wins.
He could just have very poor off pieces, making it so that it's going to perform poorly with his gear.
civic palm
eg. I have a poor neck, if I got a crit/haste neck I'd gain ~200dps just because there are better leggos in other slots.
odd tundra
xD
short quarry
is assassination doing better than outlaw st?
can't post in quick questions for some reason
solid nova
Need to grab yourself a rank from #bot-spam , all explained in the pins mate.
short quarry
no real answer there (i know all the specs are viable), it looks like assassination is doing better atm in raids on st tho, outside of imonar
hazy iron
it's also mostly irrelevant how specs are doing at the moment, as everything changes at 120
short quarry
we still play legion for 2 weeks
hazy iron
i'd suggest having fun
shrewd night
@short quarry Giving you any indication of what performs better for us is misleading as it wont be the same case for you. If you want general opinions, check out warcraftlogs, if you want accurate shit, sim yourself.
limpid dirge
is blindside any good?
shrewd night
Could be, depends on your gear. Sim yourself.
limpid dirge
im still lvling was thinking pvp wise
supple hearth
@limpid dirge no it's the least viable option
In every situation atm
Maybe at 120 it will be good
supple hearth
Well he said PvP wise so
limpid dirge
guess ill try MP for a bit
tired brook
is bleed build viable for bfa?
supple hearth
They will likely nerf our garrote damage soon. You'll have to wait and see still
tired brook
is it the better option right now?
supple hearth
I believe they have the best build atm in the pins
I've been msotly playing PvP so I'm not sure for pve
But atm assassination is way overtuned and is very likely to get adjusted
So it's safe to assume that how we are now is not how we will be come raid time
tired brook
thanks for the info
supple hearth
Np. I'd be pretty surprised if we don't get major tuning in the next month. So everything is subject to change
honest compass
lul just got soul of the shadowblade from an emissary chest
frozen pecan
gratz
frozen pecan
it's always been useless ^^
dire spoke
waddu saying, soul has been friggin nice on some ToS fights
deep kindle
Hey guys i thinking about lvling a new assa for bfa on horde any advises for race?
dire spoke
If you're not raiding top50 it doesn't matter, play what you like or check out herodamage in pins
deep kindle
Its not really about the deeps which is the most rouge suiting. Troll chould be the best with bleeds scaling with haste thats for sure
frozen pecan
well play what you like then
dire spoke
blizzard already decided what suits rogue and there you have the choice 
deep kindle
Don't really know what race to pick since tauren is not available
frozen pecan
well don't know how we should help you to decide
troll is the best for dps, if you don't care about that pick what you want
shrewd night
be me
in 2018
want advice on races for wow
but they cant read my mind
they always suggest the wrong race
quick ice
Troll has mog issues because weird feet though :(
deep kindle
Ok thanks ty i guess i will go for undead or b11 then
odd zinc
What's the easiest way of tracking Subterfuge in Weakauras w/o tracking other buffs? Since it's not an aura and I don't really know how to custom code ๐
shrewd night
The easiest way for you then is to steal it off another weakaura. Afaik its hard as shit to track subterfuge without knowing custom coding
dire spoke
somebody needs to test my code
odd zinc
Kinda what I expected then, managed to link a trigger to the leggo shoulders but those won't really be used come BfA
odd tundra
best way to track it is to count to 3
shrewd night
Need custom code for that fam
frozen helm
Just make a weakaura with the subterfuge icon that countdowns 3 seconds upon stealth cancelation, easy.
lone junco
Just use your brain.
tardy spruce
I hate how vendetta feels on the GCD
solid nova
I mean every class has a major CD on GCD now, so its a mutual feeling
Just takes a bit of getting used to
edgy latch
i hate the gcd's feel like shit on every spec/class
especially melee classes without casts
edgy latch
^
fiery nest
I was typing that
solid nova
Enjoy 1.5 second GCD on your CDs then
solid nova
GCD applies to every class now so you'll complain no matter what class you decide to roll ๐คท๐ผ
strange python
Didn't notice vendetta was on gcd tbh
fiery nest
35apm 1 ability compared to 70apm 4 things on gcd
Thinking
Yeah I really feel for u
Kappa
edgy latch
hf as shaman
sturdy depot
man tbh nothing matters right now with those meters lol
everything will change very soon
shamans will probably be strong at some point in xpac
vestal wren
ppl forget that legion balancing with legos/tier is meaningless in bfa
solid nova
^
snow surge
"shamans will probably be strong at some point in xpac"
every expansion ever for the past 13 years
dire spoke
is this non-azerite 120 simulations?
snow surge
its kinda like rogues but the other way around
"""
The best part of rogues is that rogues "are kinda op right now" for 13 years
"""
solid nova
Those are the 75th percentile mythic logs @dire spoke currently Zemps
So, completely useless for BFA comparisons.
dire spoke
hahah wow
solid nova
Pretty sure they are anyway
dire spoke
nice exploit logs
edgy latch
padders are literally hitler
strange python
so you can use two daggers as outlaw now???????????
exotic glen
"shamans will probably be strong at some point in xpac"
looks like someone forgot that enhance was easily one of the best ST specs for the entirety of antorus
shrewd night
What about bingo elemental during ToS?
wide delta
man tbh nothing matters right now with those meters lol
everything will change very soon
shamans will probably be strong at some point in xpac
shrewd night
Thats a 11/10 copy paste my man
dire spoke
imo prepatch content meters really don't matter, stuff will likely be looking different on 120 ... even shaman will hit like a truck sometime
wide delta
wtf @lone junco ?
lone junco
4p20 is weird now
wide delta
i dont even have 1 single TF piece of tier 20 ๐ฆ
lone junco
its a trash cleave sim.
dropped ilvl was fine
garrote all the things.
it fucks up your weights, cause haste only goes so far with garrote ticks.
dire spoke
noobe doing noobe things again
frozen pecan
that mog ๐คข
lone junco
solid nova
Nice druid
lone junco
we ready
brisk forge
Eww
frozen pecan
wow that looks so bad lol
brisk forge
Some ppl just cant mog ๐ค
frozen pecan
lone junco
bitch I dont give a fuck
frozen pecan
you should it's important
lone junco
worth about 1 dps
brisk forge
Apperently you do else you wouldnt t-mog at all ๐
brisk forge
It was about the rotation i swear ๐
frozen pecan
transmog is a major part of assassination
lone junco
my kid picks them typ. I liked the shoulder. The end.
lone junco
anyway. 4p20 was pretty funny in bgs as well.
solid nova
Cant wait for the Noobe BFA log break downs, gonna see you go over 100k posts ๐๐ผ
iron helm
Anyone leveling in bfa with the legendary cape and the hidden blades talents? For the 1500% fok buff
shrewd night
Are you high fam
lone junco
@solid nova web blocker at work has been .. working
shrewd night
That was fixed two weeks ago
solid nova
It's been patched for a long while.
lone junco
3?
solid nova
Its no longer multiplicative and hasn't been since a day after prepatch?
iron helm
Its still oneshotting mobs though
lone junco
prob. but you have to wait for ever to kill a rat
shrewd night
Anything can oneshot level 10 mobs
iron helm
110 mobs
iron helm
Aye now its 40k ๐
shrewd night
Imagine having to wait 30-40 seconds to kill each group of mobs
lone junco
thats like 1 garrote right?
1 subterfuge garrote is like 20-30k Id guess
tick tick tick tick
dire spoke
nice meta
lone junco
Weights are weird for sure. Garrote only needs enough cps to push ep. After that rupture ticks for 900. So not even worth using.
E is full, cause 2p makes it super cheap.
iron helm
Ez
dire spoke
nice virus
iron helm
Haha its the 1500%fok
dire spoke
dark crag
.mov what year is that?
frozen pecan
quick time player required
dark crag
This is an apple free household
lone junco
Dat snippy tool. Learn it. Love it.
ripe geyser
how do you max sephuz on raidbosses?
royal mango
ripe geyser
XD
lone junco
If there is an interrupt. Make sure you get the kick. If there are adds, you may be able to kidney
marble magnet
why is assassination+discpline popular?
undone girder
Both specs is really strong atm, disc is nearly invincible, while pushing out strong dmg numbers..
Sin is overall pretty strong atm, and we have some really nice PvP talents. Creeping Venom feel very strong for instance.
warm parcel
royal lantern
sin+disc was allready one of the best 2v2 arena comps in legion if im right
finite cipher
What the fuck is this guy doing
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/twisting-nether/theristabya
straight up more damage than everyone else
shrewd night
shrewd pine
shrewd night
@shrewd pine y u cheating bru
shrewd pine
I heard y'all need some mastery?
finite cipher
what'd you do
plain thistle
red log, probably some fishy stuff
shrewd pine
cheated
shrewd night
Lets just leave it at 'its fixed now, so no need to worry about it'
plain thistle
๐
finite cipher
I don't really care it's been fixed, it's interesting and I was asking
shrewd pine
You went to draenor, you stood in poo left by killed infested orcs, you got 10 stacks of the debuff, you Hearthstoned out, enjoyed double mastery
and got top log.
finite cipher
doose
lone junco
its 25 sec, and he got 2
steep obsidian
maybe it didnt get squished enough?
steep obsidian
true
lone junco
him 954 E/min. me 850 E/min
good haste as well.
insig at 1.33% is less impressive than melandrus + literally any other orange. but he did something cool
must be that 2.9% pbomb.
@solid nova dusting off my skills
shrewd pine
also panda flasks were busted
silk drift
What's the OP pvp darkshore owns age spec
shrewd pine
fluid jolt
Just coming back to the game since earlier this year. What's the best talent choices for Ass now and going forward?
scenic temple
check icy veins. mostly depends on ur playstyle
shrewd pine
scenic temple
or whatever other website they recommend on here
exotic glen
Do not check icy veins
scenic temple
yeah dont listen to me
exotic glen
?
shrewd pine
exotic glen
Haaai
fluid jolt
Thanks. I didn't think about checking the Pins
solid nova
And if you're uncertain about a talent choice in comparison with another 
exotic glen
Pretty much
hoary copper
NS and Sub are close for a lot of people for talents too
solid nova
Generically yes, but some talent choices sim very close together
Dependant on your stat weights
strange python
and icy veins says nightstalker is strictly behind subterfuge which is just wrong
hoary copper
@regal moss I believe is the one that does that guide?
vestal wren
it is on 120
and even now ns is behind subter
the reason:
- 100% on subter > +50% on rupture
you can do the calculation
exotic glen
dispatch can be good at 120 maybe
vestal wren
all 3 t1 talents are fairly close
ep beats the alternatives on aoe
blindside feels best to use on pure st
and sims iirc also best
strange python
oh okay. it is made for 120.
regal moss
rupt is 150% ap, 50% gain on it is + 75% ap
garrote is 108 ap, 100% gain on it is 108% ap
envenom 80% ap, so 50% gain on it is 40% ap, even with 100% crit shoulders it still only 80% ap
vestal wren
5:36 PM] fuu: and even now ns is behind subter
fluid jolt
Well then once you're 120 I think blindeside will outmatch the others
vestal wren
simple calulation:
this is the win when using the folowing:
garrote NS:2335
garrote Sub:4670
Rupture NS:3252
is from a calculation i did some days ago
exotic glen
we will see i guess
vestal wren
for 110
regal moss
so the only time NS is ahead of NS is if ur using leggo shoulders, and the target dies in under like 15 seconds
dire spoke
grayhound alive 
vestal wren
well you can sim it
vestal wren
i am not even sure that shoulders would mean ns is ahead
dire spoke
vestal wren
if the fight time is super low ns > subter
but on normal fight time subter should beat ns
hoary copper
odd that ns and sub sim within .1% of each other then when not using lego shoulder
strange python
it sims a little too close for me
hoary copper
I awoke gray from the dead
dire spoke
subberfudge
strange python
bruen, guess it was your turn to read my mind
but sorry. i should not have been so accusatory.
hoary copper
I feel dirty now
dire spoke
go commit glass of bleach Bruen xoxo
sick oyster
does anyone know if the "[BfA/PrePatch] Mizerok SIN Group" pack also tracks subterfuge empowered garrotes?
nvm it does i just cant read
vestal wren
nice ๐
shadow parrot
hey guys can some1 tell me the best specc and leggie combo fรผr leveling in bfa? ty โค
sick oyster
"Added Garrote Subterfuge Empowerment (DOES NOT work with Vanish atm)"
hoary copper
@shadow parrot if only there was for that information
sick oyster
@vestal wren do you know if i can just copy paste the nightstalker / subterfuge triggers into my own weakauras? my colouring broke with pre patch
hoary copper
strange python
pins dont have leveling info
vestal wren
you could make a condition for the color change however that will not take cp into consideration
strange python
@shadow parrot sin and sub have the better warmode talents, the mantle, sephuz, and KJ's burning wish will be legendaries that will stand out for leveling
sick oyster
thats what i was doing for now for pandemic but not sure about the empowerements
vestal wren
you would probably need custom code
shadow parrot
@strange python is assa significantly slower? and thx 4 leggo recommendations
strange python
nah it's fine. I will be leveling as assa because of crimson tempest + leeching poison
strange python
uhhh probably elaborate planning/subt/mfd/leeching poison/any/toxic blade/crimson tempest
talents prob dont matter much except mfd, leeching poison, crimson tempest as mentioned
shadow parrot
i guess 2?
strange python
prob subterfuge
shadow parrot
for garrote spam
dire spoke
garrote spam
strange python
i do like nightstalker and opening with mfd + ct
shadow parrot
sounds good aswell
lone junco
I'll log a m+ this week with 4p20. Should be able to keep up with my outlaw cleave. Aka peaks at like 12-15k.
dapper moat
Anyone here using this https://wago.io/Syh83VuFb
frozen karma
Kingsbane ๐ข
dapper moat
I am using it and seems simple enough
heh yeah obviously it wont show anymore :/
but all in all it seems quite nice and easy to read tracker. question is does anyone here think it lacks something?
hoary copper
UI are pretty personal, what seems crappy to me might be great for you shrug. I cant look at the link at work
placid elbow
^, it just looks like pretty stuff on my screen lol
we have.. what? 4 buttons to press kinda? haha
crimson terrace
when fok + ct spamming, am I refreshing CT at 5 CP or applying it to all mobs then FOK until CT expires?
plain thistle
you spam CT as well, you dont wait for the debuff to expire
fok until 4-5 CP > CT > fok until 4-5 CP > CT > repeat
spiral escarp
@lone junco Hi, I noticed you have some m+ suggestion involving CT spam, garrote and envenom. I couldnโt read up to find more though. Could you please share some more info and perhaps pin it so itโs accessible for more people please ๐
lone junco
Stuff like that depends on mob count. Mob duration. Oranges.
At least the talents are pretty set. Ep/subterfuge/Vig/ - / tb /ct.
Sephuz sims don't work. But the opener with subterfuge is really strong due to it.
You can sim trash packs of various sizes. But there is a point where zero rupture is a gain. Instead you would just do another Ct application.
Zero env is a loss. Likely due to poison application rate feeding energy during FOK.
primal lance
Hello all. Iโm new to rogues. Boosted one about two weeks ago. Just a couple quick questions. I know it wonโt matter when BFA comes out but what are best leggos with 4 piece? Is it shoulders ring or shoulders bracers or both rings? Also when I use vanish I use it at 5 cp then envenom mutilate envenom mutilate so when the duration of shoulders is over I have four cp and can go about my rotation. Is that making good use of vanish? That gives me high crits with envenom and good burst I think
lone junco
Right now, I've been messing with 4p 20. It has some hilarious results. .
hoary copper
Use finishers at 4+, not 5
primal lance
Isnโt 5 considered 4+?
lone junco
4 or 5 or 6
plain thistle
๐
hoary copper
Right but you said specifically 5, you try not to get to 5
If you have 4 you use it, you dont mut again
lone junco
Mut during shoulder =4
primal lance
Yeah I know not to Mutilate at 4
hoary copper
That was the old rotation with shoulder for vanish, I think even with shoulder the APL has vanish (wait for garrote to 6 sec left) and then garrote
primal lance
So itโs more beneficial to garrote with vanish to start it?
plain thistle
yes if using subterfuge
elfin fossil
If you run subterfuge
primal lance
I do use that
plain thistle
then yes, always garrote after vanish (or at least 3s after vanishing)
primal lance
So you guys are saying I can vanish at 4 cp then garrote into envenom mutilate envenom? To get good burst dps
plain thistle
yes, but you can sim to check if shoulder is the best for you
hoary copper
It may not be anymore
primal lance
Well itโs all I got atm so itโs gonna have to do for now. Iโm only 192 ilvl and donโt have much for gear
hoary copper
Sephuz and insignia both sim high now. Most of our leggos are kinda close
Getting more leggos is easy now with doing emissaries, LFR, and the daily WQ that now give essence instead of AP. You can also sim with leggos you dont have just to see which is worth buying too
primal lance
Yeah I didnโt know that. Very new to wow and am obviously way behind on knowledge so was looking for some smart ppl to help lol. Thanks to all who replied
hoary copper
Oh daily heroic gives 30 too
I got 2 leggos from essences last week on the same character. I havent seen a leggo drop in over a month tho -.-
thorny plover
Legendaries will only be usefull till 116 (ty bruen), im using sephuz + shoulders for speed and quick kills
arctic venture
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
hoary copper
116*
KJBW is pretty good I hear for leveling too, the scaling makes it pretty decent
strange python
yea it hits for 15k or so.
thorny plover
Id rather kill emm all quick then one super quick every minute :D
hoary copper
kjbw is aoe, you could round mobs up with it tho shrug
dense wave
I was considering shoulder and cinidaria for literal one shots that heal
lone junco
The run speed from sephuz will be nice for quests.
dense wave
That is very true
Procing sephuz would require garrote out of stealth? I wonder if that would really save time over repeated instagib
boreal mauve
What spec are people levelling as?
strange python
well you could sap
main blaze
Crafted boots + sephuz should be pretty nice for quests
strange python
or cheap shot but yeah with subterfuge I wouldnt do anything except garrote from stealth
dense wave
I still think shoulder, mfd, cinidaria would be overall faster
strange python
Hello, what is the best opener now ?
main blaze
pins
lone junco
It's not hard to cheapshot garrote mut env.
Prob Shoulder sephuz. To 116 cause i don't have the fancy whisp boots.
dense wave
Thatโs literally 4 times longer than mfd env
main blaze
Im leveling in 5 man group so things will die instantly anyway
dense wave
In that case movement speed is everything
main blaze
I'd rather have speed between pulls
strange python
things die stupid fast in outdoor legion activities
strange python
but I think you might be underestimating the health/dmg of bfa leveling mobs
main blaze
Do you mount after every time you kill a mob?
main blaze
or click an item
lone junco
Nothing was hard. But I did most with outlaw.
Base hook is nice.
Shoulder bracer Mark bte ps. Next.
hoary copper
Does that make you a hooker then Noobe?
lone junco
Once every 45s
dense wave
Mark bte sounds even better with sephuz though
lone junco
The pistol shot trait stacks with bracers.
Anyway. Pick weeds. Loot trolls. Kill wasps. Repeat for 2days.
regal moss
tbh while lvling u use ns
and just mfd env muti env
that generally killed everything i ran into
lone junco
Yeah. I didn't have any problem killing packs of 3+. Or even the. 3person elite quest mobs.
primal lance
Do you guys main outlaw or assassin?
strange python
idk yet
assa ist pretty much no brainer
will be good raiding and m+
now with decent aoe even more
primal lance
Yeah I like raiding more than anything so I wanna be assassin
strange python
what happens with spec specific traits on gear when you change spec?
do they stay for the chosen spec
crude hatch
bound to the gear
strange python
there is no tier and no other traits duh
crude hatch
what?
hoary copper
I didnt know if you meant now or future
hoary copper
Cant read your mind sorry
strange python
ofc
hoary copper
what hekkr said
strange python
i mean you chose a trait which enhances a assa ability
cerulean walrus
Sorry to intrude, but between the two neck enchants which is better? Mark of the Claw or Mark of the Hidden Satyr?
crude hatch
you need new gear for that
hoary copper
@cerulean walrus
crude hatch
no you get new traits dummy
strange python
so you basically still bound to a spec on a high end level
crude hatch
nah when you chagne spec
you get new traits in your azerite gear
you level your heart of azeroth
wise frigate
But you'll still probably end up using different pieces of gear depending on the other spec's traits.
strange python
y because on an high lvl piece you might get a trash trait for one spec but godly for other
dense wave
The other reason for changing pieces is the raid specific traits
remote wing
ya not a fan of those raid only traits seem cheap and dont provide much outside the raid the other traits in that ring look better overall to me
haughty flame
U think rogues gna get a nerf?
quartz depot
would be weird if they never got one
honest compass
i dont think they'll "nerf" any class in particular, i think they'll be balancing out the classes to make it more even across the board.
just so 1 class isn't preferred over others, i.e. arcane mage preferred over shadow priest 100% of the time because its so much stronger with the same type of damage
strange python
arcane rogue
fiery nest
i dont think they'll "nerf" any class in particular you must be new ๐
honest compass
Iโve been playing since wrath
Nerfing a class means targeting 1 particular class, if theyโre balancing amongst all classes itโs not a nerf
fiery nest
lol
quartz depot
balancing = nerfing & buffing
zealous lily
shadow dance + arcane power +SoD and makes your evicerates hit so hard with find weakness up and then you arcane explosion into the secret technique in aoe it's amazing
even in pvp at 120 rogues are not the most amazing class i think people are too eager to draw bad conclusions from prepatch
secondary stats are so different at 120. like my beta character has agi as his best stat by a fair amount
zealous lily
not for most people at least at high gear level rn for assassination
honest compass
Shadow resist rogue when?
funny enough theres been times i've needed to tank M+
as a rogue
evasion opop
solid sundial
What's the strongest pre patch trinket for rogue in m+ ?
Toe knee or Gorshalach's Legacy
strange python
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
soft wharf
this might be a dumb question but do multiple envenoms stack..?
plain thistle
no, just refresh the duration
soft wharf
or if i use a 5 cp envenom, is there no point in using another envenom til ~ 1 second left
plain thistle
and envenom buff has pandemic too ๐
soft wharf
wouldnt that be a lot of energy to pool waiting almost 5 seconds to refresh envenom?
plain thistle
thats why during burst (vendetta) or high energy income you dont care about refreshing envenom too early
strange python
yeah during lust just mash buttons.
plain thistle
you just generate-spend, generate-spend , repeat
soft wharf
ah ok
so outside of ven, just make sure i have a 5cp envenom up, and obviously rup gar
strange python
refreshing a dot will give you at most 30% of the previous duration added to the new one
(and envenom buff)
plain thistle
@soft wharf 4cp+
soft wharf
weird my UI doesnt show envenom ticking on the nameplate
it shows rupture and garrote tho
strange python
so the duration of garrote is 18s, 18 * .3 = 5.4, if you refresh garrote at 5.4 seconds remaining, the new one will be 5.4 seconds longer
plain thistle
envenom ticking?
soft wharf
and deadly poison
plain thistle
envenom is a buff, on you
honest compass
strange python
does that make sense @honest compass
honest compass
yeah
still not sure why pandemic was the word used
i knew about that
but i never called it pandemic
strange python
it used to be a passive for warlocks or something
got made into the base for every spec with dots and such
honest compass
i see
strange python
there is still absolutely nothing in the game telling you that it exists though
honest compass
as far as i know its 5.4 everytime right
for garrote
that number doesnt change right
strange python
for garrote yes
honest compass
thought so
strange python
for rupture. since duration depends on cp, pandemic time depends on cp
honest compass
i dont read into stuff too much, i read patch notes to see what they changed for rogues, and thats it
strange python
I know mizerok's wa's in the pins will show the pandemic rupture timing correctly for cp
honest compass
7.2 for 5cp no?
strange python
refreshing a 5cp rupture with another 5cp rupture, it would be 7.2s
honest compass
thats what i've been doing lmao
strange python
actually the first rupture cp doesn't matter
just whatever cp you are refreshing with
strange python
nah
iirc there was a sim that refreshed rupture at 3 cp and the difference was negligible
but that was legion. not sure about now.
but really the cp of rupture isnt a huge deal.
honest compass
sim is 5 mins, its possible they did 3 cp, because it ended with the sim
junior flume
Isn't it basically as close to 5 as you can get. Just don't risk over capping combo points
placid elbow
i always do 4 or 5 cp
strange python
i mean the sim was specifically made to test refreshing rupture at 3cp
junior flume
Yea that's what i've been doing too ๐
junior flume
Does anyone use poisoned knife, ever?
strange python
maybe right before toxic blade
placid elbow
No point in having 4cp and then getting a 5th. What you going to do, garrote? multiate again? throw a dagger?
junior flume
Yea same, was just wondering if there was other used ^^
plain thistle
rupture damage doesnt scale with combo point, just the duration, thats why 3cp rupture is not a big deal
strange python
you used to open with it ๐ remember that madness
junior flume
*uses
placid elbow
3cp rupture isn't a big deal as stated. I just like 4cp and 5cp because i have a rotation system going lol
it fucks with me
junior flume
Wait, why would refreshing at 3 be a dps increase? In comparison to letting to drop off or?
strange python
compared to having to mutilate again for 5
plain thistle
no, in comparison to using another mutilate to get 2 combo point
placid elbow
^
honest compass
the way i see it, the difference between 3 and 5 is 8 seconds, which is roughly 100 energy with some excess, thats 2 muts which is potentially 8 cp, you'd gain 6 cp net, over the duration, thats worth in my eyes
placid elbow
3 isn't an increase, it's only a convenience IF you're out of rhythm or got some bad RNG with Combo Points lol
junior flume
Hm okay, just thought the duration would make it worth it
plain thistle
no, it can lead to actually dps increase, but the difference is minimal
dense wave
It could certainly be an increase if you have a good sense for when a 5 man boss is going to die
plain thistle
for cases like: TB is coming you dont want to delay it, but you also want to have energy to get 2/3 envenom during the buff
strange python
well lets say toxic blade is about to come off cooldown, rupture is at like 9 seconds, you're low on energy and cp
slow typing. you get the message
plain thistle
that way you dont let rupture expire during TB but you also have energy for envenoms and mutilates during TB
and before we lost our Artifact, you could refresh rupture with 3CP during KB without letting envenom buff expire ๐
honest compass
TB doesnt effect mut damage though
lone junco
Without sot the cp count for rupture doesn't matter.
honest compass
only the envenom damage
plain thistle
envenom and deadly poison damage
strange python
mutilate can proc dp twice
plain thistle
mutilate is the cp generator
strange python
did sot scale with cp?
plain thistle
yes, 2% per combo point
lone junco
Ye.
plain thistle
5cp = 10%
strange python
lmao didn't even know that
lone junco
And pb scales with cp.
So without pb. And no sot. Garrote rupture is fine for short trash.
If rupture was even worth using.
What a fucking disappointment.
Ticks for 900 wut
honest compass
for trash i usually garrote 3-4x and rupture on on of those, then switch to on of the others
plain thistle
for AoE its not worth to rupture that much, in some cases its not even worth rupturing at all (especially with T21)
plain thistle
you can rupture 1-2 maybe 3 targets, if they live long enough
lone junco
At 120 we will clarify guidance for Ct usage.
honest compass
but rip changing talents
plain thistle
oh yeah, it will change a lot with lvl 120 and maybe AoE traits(?)
honest compass
i'm curious why we didnt get another set of talents for 120
lone junco
Current shit is weird. 4p20 is absurd.
honest compass
because of the azerite?
plain thistle
not sure if we already have a aoe trait that change gameplay ๐คท
plain thistle
CT is a talent
strange python
there's one that gives you agility per target with rupture
plain thistle
talking about azerite traits
strange python
could see that making rupture more worthwhile
honest compass
at least not for sin
honest compass
would make sense
dreadlords and the 110 talent
stacked
with it
what i also cant wait for
rogues will finally get some sustain
out of combat
lone junco
The aoe ones ive seen are secondary on kill, agi on rupture, and sandstorm. Hope something is proceed on Ct hit spam.
Active cleave etc.
strange python
ct no longer has an initial hit but deals 50% more dmg
lone junco
Wot.
strange python
would be cool
strange python
fok
strange python
lmao
lone junco
FOK Ct FOK Ct?
honest compass
yes
lone junco
Nah. I don't wait 45sec for a donger hit.
lone junco
Gimme something that can cleave 45 snakes at once
honest compass
fok
nimble tartan
Ct feels terrible to use in m+
honest compass
are you using envenom when you run CT?
lone junco
Some.
nimble tartan
Using any other button other than ct fok in big aoe feels bad
lone junco
Omr. That blade flurry. Blade rush is too good to be true.
nimble tartan
And it feels wrong and awkward bad playstyle
lone junco
Yeah. Gotta Ct them all.
strange python
it feels good with mfd
lone junco
Better than my 4p20 garrote spams
nimble tartan
Think the good fix is ti lower the initial hit damage and put it in the bleed
dense wave
mfd tricks ct feels pretty good
nimble tartan
So u dont have to spam ct
lone junco
When garrote is top dmg. And you just garrote 8 things
honest compass
out of curiosity, mfd has a 30 sec cd, but a 1 min reset window
that doesnt make sense to me
lmao
lone junco
Imbed bota in rupture Will make me use it
@honest compass mark is used on the smallest shit trash first. Then when it dies you use again and again and again.
Aka mark spam.
strange python
๐คท
nimble tartan
When u mfd weave as outlaw ๐
lone junco
Mmm.
dense wave
It could technically reset from a previous use after youโve used it again 30s later. Edge case, but possible
strange python
think he/she just means it's weird that reset timer is twice the cooldown
nimble tartan
Nothing feels better
dense wave
Although Iโm not sure the new use doesnโt override old
plain thistle
fuck i hate mfd
lone junco
I have a click when full cps and a boom when mark resets.
So you get. click boom click boom.
Made for some fun outlaw times.
@nimble tartan I will say, outlaw always feeels great. if you turn off the meter.
lots of shit going on.
some times though, dps is not going on
nimble tartan
i like outlaw more than sin in M+
for me it goes sub>outlaw>sin for m+ at 120
this tier's affix is really really good for sub rogue
nimble tartan
ye sub has the perfect kit for the high end keys
primal lance
Idk enough about rogues yet so what does ct mean?
nimble tartan
i played sub this last mythic clear got some nice rankies
lone junco
is sub meta similar to the mosh, mark build, just resetting dance and symbol?
mongo dfa was fun, but jousting is a lot of pressure to put on 6 attacks per fight.
ripe yew
Question, is there any reason to be doing arena now in prepatch? considering gear and stats are balanced around 120 and not 110
empty elbow
To make yourself feel better because assassination pumps rn
nimble tartan
ye sin is busted in pvp rn
primal lance
What does ct mean?
primal lance
Ah ok thanks
ripe yew
Yea I know sin is busted but... why are other people taking it serious, some people are actaully asking for 2k+ experience
I'm just wondering....why if there is no reward why ask for someone to have that exp?
ripe yew
๐ฎ you can still get ach?
honest compass
yeah things like threes company and such
ripe yew
Ok what Ilvl do I need?
honest compass
200 probably idk much about pvp anymore, i dont do it often
ripe yew
ill go to pvp channel, sorry
simple portal
Hey, during legion I used notters WAs, but now they seem a little in need of an update. Do you know if he will update ? I was looking at Mizeroks in the pins which also looks pretty cool, and I would be happy to go to that one if notters is not being maintained now ?
exotic glen
@gaunt moat
lone junco
gaunt moat
@simple portal sorry but due to personal issues i took a break from WoW
maybe in the future i will come back, but currently no plans to update it
simple portal
ok,ty for reply and i wish you all the very best x
civic palm
o _o"
dire spoke
miz
dire spoke
hmm it's cooling down here but I'm semi-tired and semi-hungry
=_ =
you sleepy alright?
royal flame
is that dogs trinket?
royal flame
hmm
honest compass
undead ๐คข
royal flame
ah yes that's it
honest compass
at first i thought that was shadowstrike
the stealth ability
i was like, thats it
strange python
its crazy strong right now yeah
lone junco
in shoulder is nice too
strange python
scaling hooraaaay
nimble tartan
nerf garrote
exotic glen
โค mize
civic palm
Someone asked for a Blindside WA.
I was blindsided.
There's a huge fucking UI component for Blindside, why you need a WA for it??!
lone junco
Don't nerf garrote.
honest compass
Nerf arcane rogue
sand whale
you should make one for lols, blank out the entire screen when it procs
strange python
i use mizeroks but made it looks like notters.
oh,
i was scrolled up quite a ways..
civic palm
I would probably just make it look identical to the default aura prompt.
strange python
hey guys, maybe not the right place but this is where it's going. I'm not the greatest player by any means but my fury warrior can easily do normal legion dungeons solo, my assass rogue with equivalent gear gets it's ass beat. Is this normal, am I super mega giga bad or is it a mixture of everything?
golden tartan
Fury has plate + lots of sustain I'd imagine
mystic vessel
strange python
in normal dungeons things die too fast for sin rogue
in prepatch, @mystic vessel sin is best at everything
little marten
I'm trying to decide if I should scrap the UI I've been using for 14 years and start fresh with elvui. I"m a bit terrified at the thought
strange python
just backup your stuff
civic palm
BURN IT ALL!!
little marten
elvui is just bars and placements and such right? I would still need some kind of dot timers and bag mods, and such?
civic palm
ELVUI does bags as well.
civic palm
I will forgive you for not including your Lord and Savior... BigWigs.
But just this once.
strange python
lmao
little marten
I tried WA with notters stuff, so different than need to know, couldn't get used to it
probably just didn't play with it enough
couldn't get is sized and positioned where I wanted it
strange python
took me a while to realize you can just click and drag a weakaura and move it to where you want.
i used to sit there and try to guestimate the coordinates.
little marten
is there a way to get each frame to attach to each other?
that's what I couldn't do and the space between them was driving me nuts
strange python
you can make a Group and add weakauras to that group.
but for that I guess you can just move them to be real close to eachother.
the Group thing makes it so you can move a bunch of weakauras together at once.
little marten
that's kind of what I would like to do, almost make it like 1 single frame
civic palm
There's specifically space between mine so I can see the fucking ground.
strange python
most weakauras you import are already in a group
little marten
so miz, if I import yours it will look just like that in a single go?
civic palm
Yeah.
little marten
ok, let me go try to delete what I have and import your settings...I'll be right back
ok, that worked the way I hoped! thank you Miz!
pastel vault
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9VZrxWa4Qs anyone know how the ret and nnogga (@9:10ish) set up their raid frames?
it's almost default frames but solid colors
different than the default ones if you compare with xerwo @9:25
strange python
Not sure but I know Joshpriest uses that and you can get his import string
from his stream
nnogga's ui is for subs only, omegalul.
hmmm upon close inspection josh's are pretty different
idk, good luck
strange python
what's your question
solid nova
#385145484559253506 has information in the pins about posting within it
strange python
so that's why that channel is so quiet now
gaunt girder
ah
Well I was more curious as to the rogues who have been playing consistently unlike myself who took a long break would say for BfA PvE in the question: "Assassination vs Outlaw in Mythical+ as well as mythical raiding"
wise frigate
Whatchu mean now? Been like that since nearly the beginning AFAIK.
I personally will be playing Outlaw for both but that's just me. I enjoy the playstyle of BfA Outlaw a lil more than Sin.
strange python
nah scroll up to just before pre patch day and it was full of white names
gaunt girder
Like what intel do we have that would favour one spec over the other
wise frigate
Sin will prolly do a lil better on single target fights, while Outlaw might pull ahead on AoE fights.
gaunt girder
Im assuming Outlaw will have a superior approach to M+ due to heavier AoE
That's my assumption
Which also leads me to believe that Outlaw will absolutely outperform sin in M+ for that reason alone
strange python
they both have great aoe tools, outlaw is more burst and sin is sustain
gaunt girder
Which would mean that sin rogues should be by default superior in raids
Yeah thats my current assumptions & speculations
wise frigate
Like Connor said, Sin is the sustain AoE so for high fortified stuff, it could pull ahead.
strange python
there's not any single target fight in Uldir
civic palm
Not with that attitude.
gaunt girder
Note: I have not raided what so ever in Legion
strange python
civic palm
TUNNEL CONNOR, TUNNEL.
strange python
looks like there will be Uldir fights that will benefit outlaw, and others for sin
IMO the best spec will be the one you are best at playing ๐คท
gaunt girder
I disagree
strange python
we also dont know half the mythic mechanics
gaunt girder
For PvE its about knowing how to utilize your character if Outlaw outperforms Sin then i need to make sure I know the rotation by heart
Also true
crude raft
is blindside supposed to be used in the execute window? or do we still use it only on the proc?
gaunt girder
I dont mind sitting on a target dummy for 20h straight if thats what it takes to get 90%+ performance
strange python
use blindside instead of mutilate in execute unless you have venom rush talented
gaunt girder
O,o
strange python
Ghazzy the only people who need follow that mentality are the ones pushing top 100
slim olive
the game isnt that hard lol
gaunt girder
Ive been raiding top 100 in the past but most likely not in BfA, I still dont want to perform less than what Im capable of
civic palm
Also sitting on a dummy is akin to effectively no fights.
gaunt girder
Was merely stating that I dont mind taking the time it needs to learn a rotation by heart so that wont be a problem when things change mid-fight
๐
wheat zealot
strange python
before the heroic uldir tuning pass I can't give an answer
gaunt girder
strange python
who knows what will change
gaunt girder
Obviously not, my question was what the expectations are ๐
And it seemed to be the same as my speculations
civic palm
The expectations are that there will be a numbers change.
gaunt girder
Numbers doesn't change the baseline mechanics nor our current speculations.
Either way, appreciate the time guys โค
strange python
changing numbers =/= just changing dps
civic palm
The numbers change things if you are nerfed too far below the rest of the specs and their numbers are simply better.
Your mechanics be damned, as no one is without the capability to do well in ST, AoE, or Cleave.
strange python
could change my energy regen. that's a number. and that number could turn everything sideways.
civic palm
The winner is entirely based on who gets the better numbers.
strange python
๐
civic palm
Even though Hidden Blades is booty and KS/Naruto are better buttons.
hollow socket
Seems like blindside isnโt really doing as much as mutilate. I guess it feels slow since it only gives one combo point and not too. Iโm assuming itโs going more damage at execute than mutilate.
Doing*
zealous lily
that would feel awesome
strange python
its already pretty good at 120
fleet whale
It's only "good" cause of crap gear though
strange python
I like the proc, hate spamming it though.
lone junco
I'd trade HB for PoisonKnives.
zealous lily
shrouded suffocation should apply to blindside instead
strange python
i'd trade hb for practically anything.
zealous lily
but idk maybe it'd just make it overpowered ogod
lone junco
And that VR on mut is bullshit