Yeah that’s what I thought I read
#assassination
sleek iron
faint canopy
Blind Blinds the target, causing it to wander disoriented for 1 min. Damage will interrupt the effect. Limit 1.
Cooldown changed from 2 min cooldown to 1 min cooldown
storm eagle
What are you best settings for raidbots and what are the best settings to test legendaries with?
strange python
might be a dumb question but if you are spec'd to blindside i'm assuming it replaces mutilate at <30% boss health correct?
leaden elk
what's the neck enchantment to go now ?
strange python
yes unless you have venom rush talented
what happens if you have venom rush talented?
you just use mutilate sub 30%, but still blindside on proc
oh ok cool thanks for the heads up
leaden elk
hmmm guysssss
strange python
claw or satyr
azure bridge
satyr, sim whats better for you tho
viscid pawn
do u like crimson tempest?
so i rly want to apply rupture on every mob with the crimson tempest build?
quiet ginkgo
Yes
carmine steppe
i am relatively new to rogue and bought the cloak to kinda troll with the built in version, but the tooltip damge isnt represented in using it on adds in a mythic plus despite it doign the dmg it says on training dummies in the order hall is it supposed to be scaled down in dungeons?
green belfry
@viscid pawn There was a discussion about it a bit further up. I asked the question for you since I saw your PM and wasnt 100% sure myself.
But a rule of thumb was: ~4 enemies. Garrote them all, put 1 CT on them and then put rupture up. If more than 4 enemies it feels like FoK and CT spam could be better. You still garrote as many as you can tho.
viscid pawn
okay, thank u 😃
fresh abyss
yo guys
viscid pawn
pretty hard to keep all this stuff up
fresh abyss
lvl 48 rn, which warmode talents should i go for?
green belfry
Juggling all the dots 😉
@lone junco Small sample size but the best I could do to compare Vig/DS CT vs MFD CT bracers was a +12 EoA. Vig/DS = 4.7k overall DPS; MFD CT = 4.3k overall DPS
sterile marten
are both rings gonna be best for leveling or will we use the shoulders
for assassination
remote wing
shoulders and belt is what im using for lvling will 2 shot most things
sage fox
Question. Does the Talent Master Poisoner affect Leeching poison?
(Master Poisoner) increases your poisons' damage by 30% and their non-damaging effects by 20%
(Leeching Poison) improves your Deadly Poison and Wound Poison, causing them to also grant 10% leech to your damage.
rose knoll
rose knoll
np
strange python
Anyone know what the haste cap is?
eternal bluff
is gorshalach still not good for us? I can't find any info on that trinket
green belfry
~27% is nice to have but have to sim yourself to make sure what your stat weights are.
green belfry
Yeah. It was strange cuz i hid my dmg meter and I swear I felt like MFD combo would have been way higher dps 😄
But statistically speaking my comparison is nonsense 😄
eternal bluff
I am torn on mythic argus now. Haste/vers or crit/mastery
strange python
haste vers without question
plain thistle
silk sundial
So I have mained Sin for quite a while now and I was going to try giving Outlaw a try, according to sims though it does 500 dps lower on single target and almost 2k lower on aoe. I haven't really played it much yet so I don't know the practical difference. Is that fairly accurate?
Can I also get a sin role assigned?
eternal bluff
hm, what's preventing me from asking questions in #385145484559253506
silk sundial
Lack of role, like me 😃
terse pawn
just get a role in #bot-spam
silk sundial
Thanks
Maybe its just bad stats but Outlaw should have higher single target dps according to the pin. I'll toy around with it a bit
onyx raft
What are our opener for 8.0 single target? Since we dont have kingsbane and subterfuge is played alot
civic palm
supple hearth
It's not so much a lack of a role as it is lack of checking pins like you're supposed to.
Working as intended tbh
thorny jasper
question that im sure is pinned somewhere
is there any reason to envenom as elaborate planning is falling off for extra dmg or do i just go for max envenom uptime
strange python
you aim to clip envenom in elaborate planning
so yes elaborate planning does take priority
but if you go for elaborate planning clipping over and over you will run out of steam so you have to be aware that sometimes you should fall back to the envenom buff for a cycle or two
onyx dew
Are there any rotational changes for Master Poisoner?
strange python
that was terrible grammar but you undermeant what I stood
no not really @onyx dew
remote wing
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/VdtP23PqHymQzBeaT8q8w when u need relics bad
jovial kite
no u
sand olive
how do i get outlaw role
jovial kite
#bot-spam
sand olive
thanks papi
jovial kite
Np son
chrome tuskBOT
Alright, @sand olive has been warned because '** don't troll**'.
lone junco
not gonna lie, shoulder alignment with vendetta is pretty smooth.
made for a nice Kingoroth.
well, and anything else.
trail hound
smooth as eggs
lone junco
I really need to fix my wa. default unit frames have debuffs now, but timing the pandemics is hard from the itty bitty debuff bar on the target.
off to a good start.
lol
final river
nice dps
lone junco
was guild raid on garothi. i expected them to be higher. I was floating at like 6-7k for a while
final river
that was nice
supple mesa
Do you guys think vanish and garroting boss/2x tanky adds on high command 2nd boss is a dps increase?
If not running shoulders that is
torn junco
Does using arcane torrent for dps feel bad for anyone else since its on the gcd
strange python
bought shoulders and got insignia in one day fucking pogchamp
civic palm
👌
neat umbra
nice nice
storm eagle
So whats the best legendary set up now?
dire spoke
sleek iron
Dunno why but my sephuz is better than my insignia even though everyone says to use insignia
dire spoke
which means if sephuz is good for you, it's even better when you can proc it
sleek iron
Right that’s what im thinking
storm eagle
Whats that best sim settings?
storm eagle
Thanks alot 😃
flat cove
Has anyone a good assa wa?
dire spoke
that link should be in resources or pins
on the other side ... nobody reads that
nevermind
tropic mango
Well i did it first)
flat cove
I found wa on wago but it dosnt works or they are shit
dire spoke
they may be outdated or written in spells of another language than your client instead of IDs
tropic mango
@flat cove wait a couple of days Nurseous from Exorsus gonna do it soon enough
flat cove
Ok
tropic mango
Can i miss a 5-10 ilvl from items to take that awesome haste boost on my twink assa?
dire spoke
tropic mango
Just left from PC a couple minutes ago xD
prime stirrup
Is there a point we dont want crit after? Im sitting at 46% right now
shrewd night
Sim yourself to find out
prime stirrup
its shown in pawn strings that haste is better for me for awhile now. but is there a drop off point that we know of for crit yet?
obviously koffing.. im wondering if there is a soft cap at somepoint
solid nova
There are no soft caps, the point at which one stat over takes another in terms of priority is dependant on the percentages of your other stats.
shrewd night
Sim the crit chart, if you see other stats overtaking it in the chart, grats you found it?
copper sinew
Yes, it’s called stat weights
solid nova
Up to date stat weight sims are the only way for you to individually know when haste will drop off in favour of another stat.
prime stirrup
yes, and i keep them that way
solid nova
Then you're doing the right thing
oblique pendant
for me my stat weights are
civic palm
👌
junior gorge
Do you guys think it will be worth it to go for dreadlords deceit and mantle of the master assassin while lvling towards 116 or is it worth way more to get the trait shoulders from BFA? :)
I've just heard the crit FoK is insane while lvling
civic palm
After the change to Hidden Blades + Deardlords I am not even sure how much damage is being done anymore while leveling.
junior gorge
change to hidden blades? haven't followed too much up on outlaw
dire spoke
you're in assassination right now
civic palm
Yeah my AGI has started to be king =\
Hidden Blades and Dreadlords used to stack multiplicatively (meaning they were multiplied together normally) which lead to a monstrous damage increase. They now stack additively which amounts to like, 1/4 of the previous damage.
wet dagger
You guys running Old war or prolonged?
civic palm
Whatever SIMs the best, Old War winning at the moment IIRC.
junior gorge
@dire spoke I know, MiZeroks comment just confused me forgot they made a talent called hidden blades, i was thinking of the outlaw skill before bfa prepatch 😛 which made it make no sense to me 😃
makes sense now, i have no idea if hidden blades stack with dreadlords deceit
odd tundra
It either does or I got trolled when I read it does somewhere
junior gorge
guess i will have to test it out
would assume hidden blades and dreadlords deceit plus the stealth crit thing would be super OP while lvling
or max stack oneshot other groups in pvp 😛
prime stirrup
lofty junco
from wowhead journal for M+ rankings:
"Any Rogue Spec - Last time I did these rankings, I listed Outlaw as my choice for rogue specs. Since then I have had the privilege of running dungeons with all three rogue specs and now realize that it wasn't just Outlaw -- all three of the specs are amazing. Subtlety is great for erasing Infested mobs; Assassination has top notch single target damage and an AoE slow that can be spammed; Outlaw is still doing great AoE damage. Combine stellar damage with rogue utility and you've got yourself a winner. This class came out of the tuning pass this week mostly unscathed, so it's an easy top choice."
Thats sound really nice for now
tranquil silo
So what he’s saying is we’re getting nerfed
shrewd night
Emphasis: >>>>>>this week<<<<<
next bay
"we've found a strong correlation between rogue's high damage, and their ability to use weapons. We have removed their ability to use weapons, and are eager to hear your feedback on the change!"
strange python
^
hardy bluff
Fine apparently, as long as we have an aoe slow
tranquil silo
Damage from CT removed and changed to 40% more slow
royal lantern
nah, we talk about blizzard, they would nerf it that way: Fan of Knives/shuriken storm now always generate only 1 combo point, we want rogues too focus on single target dmg
strange python
oh god just tried simming sub and outlaw gear compared to sin its a tragedy 😦 6,350 as sin v 5,6 5,7 sub / outlaw i want to try sth else D:
lofty junco
or something like "we removed poisons from rogues"
oblique comet
better = "We removed Rogues from WoW" 😄
lofty junco
blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
zealous lily
make frivolous copyright complaints on the videos to prevent nerfs from happening 🤔
lofty junco
Rogue is love Rogue is live Rogue rules!
bright mulch
So... which is the best talents options to assa PvP?
jaunty arrow
I use 123321
unique ice
Is Pawn incorrect about the Darkshore WQ weapons being an upgrade over the Kingslayers? I assume it's counting the Kingslayer as one item or something, and assuming you'll equip the Darkshore weapon in an empty slot.
unique ice
ok, i assumed so
I know the Kingslayers counted as a single weapon previously so I assume Pawn just thinks you have a second empty weapon slot.
warm parcel
shrewd night
If you have NH level relics in your weapons, then yes they are likely better than the artifact.
oblique pendant
so they are crap for me
solid nova
They are 190 base ilvl but can WF/TF iirc.
solid nova
And as you don't receive 2 to compensate for MH/OH its doubtful yes.
elder crystal
pawn with its stat weights tried to tell me the 190 dagger was a 44% upgrade to my 226 kingslayers so something was funky there
oblique pendant
have u recently updated ur stat weights?
cuz raidbots stat weights now include weapon dps
elder crystal
updated a day before the darkshore dropped and an hour ago, so I guess that’s where it went weird since I hadn’t updated recently enough
shrewd night
Artifacts are treated as one weapon, thus you need to sim with two weapons to make sure you are getting the right reading, instead of switching out one by one.
rough yarrow
have they done something to poison bomb spell? my weak aura doesnt work. downloaded 5 weak auras from wago non works? any ideas?
shrewd night
Make sure you are downloading BFA weakauras.
rough yarrow
even those 5 days earlier dont work
strange python
well it's a talent and not an artifact trait anymore
weakaura may be trying to track "bag of tricks"
rough yarrow
anyone has any link with working one?
strange python
which... doesn't exist
rough yarrow
its checked as talent
tried to modify it as far my knwledge of wa goes and still nothing
yours working?
strange python
I don't use one because poison bomb is completely out of my control, does not change my rotation, and does very little dmg
so if I did it would just be screen clutter 🤷
wide delta
the id of the spell changed
u gotta replace it with the new ID
@rough yarrow try this wa here
and find out the ID of PB
and replace it into ur old PB WA
and it will work
weak isle
thas me 😮
hoary copper
The PB WA is annoying more than helpful
shrewd night
If someone in my group is using that, Im taking the mobs right out of it btw.
Never standing still ever again.
fresh lodge
so what do you guys think the best talents are
shrewd night
Whatever sims best.
hoary copper
lofty junco
what i hate the most in m+ tanks, like druid with typhoon that kicks mobs away or out of PB and tanks that take mobs out of PB....
hoary copper
You can just use details to see the damage from it and figure it out
wide delta
why bother clickin around in a dungeon when U can see the stats on ur chat window?
hoary copper
Because it doesnt matter?
lofty junco
why to do that in a dungeon thats nbot finished?
hoary copper
In the end nothing comes of more or less pb procs
lofty junco
ya ahve enough time to look at it after the dungeon in details
hoary copper
it doesnt change anything about play style or anything
hoary copper
Because the WA is annoying when it goes off
wide delta
not if u deactivate the spamming in the WA
hoary copper
which .01% of people do
lofty junco
but for what ya need that WA? it doesn't matter if ya know which time is PB active cause ya can't do anything for it
lavish fjord
What talents are ppl using for PVP/PVE atm? - Srry, messing around on my rogue that i havent touched in a while
strange python
check the pinned resources for pve
lofty junco
check pins
lavish fjord
Thx, anything for pvp here or ravenholdt site?
wide delta
@lofty junco ofc you cant do anything for it but it still cool to check if ur lucky or not
lofty junco
@wide delta just check it after fight/dungeon/m+/raid in ya deatails
wide delta
why would I LOL
lofty junco
*details
strange python
For pvp, #pvp might have something I'd say system shock, creeping venom, flying daggers are good, maybe deadly brew instead of flying daggers for when there are less than 3 targets
wide delta
i wanna check it after each boss
therefore the WA without chat spam
so it tells me the exact % of proccs I had
its interesting for me and no need for u to judge wether Its useless or not
lofty junco
i just can't get my head around it why is that important...its do nothing to help and PB isn't that important in prepatch how it was before Prepatch
shrewd night
Y'all are discussing some dumb shit. If it doesn't impact me I dont give a shit what others are doing with wa s or add-ons.
late dawn
what neck enchant for assassination?
wide delta
thanks @shrewd night
strange python
claw or satyr
bold iris
bis leggys for assass?
wide delta
blake just bein retarded minding other ppl their business lol
lofty junco
TBH i wasn't the person that started the discussion
shrewd night
That's a quick way to being muted or banned xiansho
lofty junco
just writen some of my thoughts
btw i had heard from a clickable WA for poison. had until now used Slice and dice button for that. is that really possible?
prime stirrup
there is a clickable poison, even supports right click for crippling. So im sure SnD could be set up similar
lofty junco
have ya a link or name?
prime stirrup
uno momento
lofty junco
no need to hurry^^
prime stirrup
might have to mess with triggers. for me it seems to only pop up in dungeon/raid
but it does still work
limpid perch
do you guys use any special mod to keep track of your bleed timers (rupture/garrot)
solid nova
Weak Auras.
https://wago.io/weakauras/classes/rogue/assassination
Have a browse, make sure they're updated for BFA. Weak Aura preferences are subjective so it's best to see for yourself in terms of what would suit you best.
slow mortar
Screen shot screen shot!
I've been tinkering with having the personal resource shown and having weak aura following it
solid nova
!warn @wide delta That's twice you've referred to someone as retarded now. Please familiarise yourself with the rules in #rules-and-guides . Next time it's a mute.
chrome tuskBOT
Alright, @wide delta has been warned because 'That's twice you've referred to someone as retarded now. Please familiarise yourself with the rules in #rules-and-guides . Next time it's a mute.'.
exotic glen
richard modding👌🏿
hoary copper
@solid nova so strong and forceful 😍
supple hearth
Baby's first mod!
hoary copper
they grow up so fast
prime stirrup
@limpid perch i use https://wago.io/H1TbcZLNQ which is a modified version of https://wago.io/413nGHrbQ/1 . I removed kingsbane timer, and added Elaborate Planning was all
lone junco
Ct > pb in m+. Thanks
prime stirrup
high level high health packs yes
hoary copper
I just use Miz's HUD which has timers
prime stirrup
low level low hp packs just stick with pb
prime stirrup
^ but this the sin page
lone junco
But anything that lives long works against blade flurry timings. Thus the FOK Ct spam.
lofty junco
i hate outlaw cause they deleted our combat love
calm grail
Was just reading method JBs post on speccs.
lone junco
@civic palm is your WA pack intended for sharing? Cause I need to find something.
oblique pendant
does exanguineadate spell work on Crimson Tempest?
strange python
no
calm grail
Pretty much you bring the rogur specc that you need based on your other groups utility
Rogue*
prime stirrup
@limpid perch give those WA a try, made it real easy to keep a visual on poisons
calm grail
If you have a frost Mage, that was probably okay, if you don't have a frost Mage you probably want to use assassination.
Stuff like that.
hoary copper
he/she/zhe/ze/zim....
lofty junco
how about IT?^^
regal trellis
i dont understand ze/zim am i transphobic?
calm grail
That's what I call my wife
lofty junco
omg i noticed we doesn't got a long time a pin/sim question^^
lofty junco
strange python
I actually decided to sim master poisoner instead of assuming EP was better
and what do you know mp was higher...
lone junco
My MP was about even, but EP is >> in 2T
strange python
guess 'cause I still have a fair amount of mastery
strange python
was it a 5 minute fight?
strange python
intermission is kind of awkward
if you have insignia do you mut and try to hit them both
or just fok fok fok
lone junco
pB was such a small proc
in that graph it is the blue
my uptimes were trash cause my wa is busted and it makes me bad
lofty junco
i think MP>EP in fights with intermission or when ya can't have a 100% uptime on boss
oblique pendant
isn't exginate better than TB with current bleeds dmg?
lone junco
exang is 1000 dps drop for me
in my best exang gear
so Im not going to bother
Shoulder/Vendetta alignment was nice. == 2min
strange python
exsang was good when vendetta had a 45s cd
lone junco
exsang was good when Bota and Conc aligned with a vanish NS Rupture Exang
tbh, let me check the APL and see if anything is glaringly wrong
shit I logged as outlaw
dire spoke
hans get ze flammenwerfer
blissful vapor
how is our damage looking right now?
hoary copper
At the moment, pretty good. In the future: 🔮
blissful vapor
did you see anything in there?
hoary copper
huh?
blissful vapor
in the crystal ball?
dusty dagger
Isnt it like 110:sin 120:sub ?
hoary copper
There's been no tuning so no clue
hoary copper
We will have to wait and see
lofty junco
my Crystall ball said: We will rule the complete addon!
lone junco
45 sec exang 2min vendetta 2min vanish.
@warm parcel is there an APL with exang held to 1min intervals? The desync is pretty shitty.
that vanish rupture exang without vendetta is no Bueno
lone junco
it would be a loss at the 3-4min mark if you delay each exang 15 sec.
but its got to be better than this.
lone junco
the vendetta overlap is probably necessary
when you exang at 45, then hold vendetta for 1:30. then you dont have vendetta for the vanish exang at 215
since vanish and vendetta are both 2min. Id just like to see exang at the 1 min intervals
empty elbow
@vestal wren he’s talking about delaying so that every other exsang is wth vendetta though
vestal wren
ye i see
lone junco
more like every other is Vendetta Vanish Rupture Exang
craggy needle
it's like they should make exsang 1min cd 🤔
terse coral
uhm
i was looking for talents on the bfa guide
Talents
Single Target:
3210021
does the numbers means the position of the talent?
strange python
click "more info"
strange python
i made a video on a fan of knives build
lunar berry
/dps
strange python
dire spoke
did I hear C L I C K
terse pawn
for aoe do i just spam ruptures and hope poison bomb procs?
lone junco
if you are running pbomb, and shoulders for M+, its not much different that it was for live
vestal wren
@lone junco so how long would you delay exanguinate for that?
lone junco
15sec
vestal wren
might not be enough
lone junco
exang 1 is vendetta vanish. exang 2 is filler. exang 3 is vendetta vanish
tough lantern
@strange python you know fok was fixed right? like first day on the pre-patch it got nerfed
strange python
how was it broken?
tough lantern
if it was stacked with cape you could crit for like 100k+
hoary copper
It was multiplicative now its additive
strange python
i see
tough lantern
CT is better than fok atm
terse pawn
does it stack enough to damage to use as a burst opener over mut?
strange python
it gets like 22k without crit
terse pawn
that's pretty decent i guess, but not sure if it's worth losing pbomb or ct over
they said pbomb is less rng but it still feels pretty rng to me
tough lantern
this is a christian channel
strange python
but my name preaches a (old) christian teaching
vestal wren
@lone junco just triyed to be 'smart' in the opener
tough lantern
ew
amber arrow
does crimson tempest work the same as it did in wod where casting another one with the dot up will just add to the dot?
stark heart
No
amber arrow
rip
lone junco
@vestal wren rupture exang vanish mut woops
stark heart
Why is there 3rd rupture prior to exsang?
vestal wren
refresh condition
lone junco
rupture is always prior to exang
stark heart
Yeah but 3rd on pull
lone junco
I dont know how you would structure the mid block exang tbh. conditional for Vendetta vanish rupture exang seems easy enough, but the one at 55 sec isnt
crimson terrace
In the ravenholdt guide it says to maintain rupture and garrote on all targets. In mythics, how many mobs is it worth putting all those dots on? New to rogue
tough lantern
what lvl30 talent for that sim?
wraith hatch
Leveling another rogue whats the go-to spec for lvling atm?
vestal wren
idk i think that would make sense
lone junco
im ok with the refresh for max pandemic. just dont want any vendetta or vanish cast without exang.
vestal wren
✅ rupture refresh (pandemic)
✅ garrote subterfuge buffed (pandemic)
✅ vendetta up
-> exang
mellow crest
🙌
vestal wren
still a loss tho
crimson terrace
@lone junco ok just making sure cause the older guide mentioned to only garrote if T20, but that’s outdated ofc
lone junco
just dont lose the 2nd exang in the process. there is no vendetta isnt ready yet
can you post an html ?
vestal wren
sure
i did not change anything there outside of the diffrent exang use in the opener
lone junco
@crimson terrace for larger pulls, current M+ is typ subterfuge garrote garrote (3rd is up to you) then 1 -2 rupture max, then fok ct spam.
its still desync
its still wonky
the subterfuge exang could probably be better than the NS rupture. but the time staggers are awkward.
I can just run an LFR and do it manually and log it.
those damn fights last forever
misty quarry
hi , i have 44 crit , 22% hast, 34 maitrise , 11 poly . do we have a cap hast or crit cap in assassination now ?
wise frigate
lone junco
need to run your stat weights. it may want you to have a bit more haste
misty quarry
i have sim with my actually stuff cause before the patch i was full maitrise and poly , and i want to know witch stat i must priorize for my future stuff
wise frigate
That's what the sims are for. They tell you what stats give you the most value.
lone junco
@misty quarry stats changed due to haste modifying bleed tick rates. Old gear may be trash or not. sims help
hoary copper
We can't tell you what stat to prioritize because its for your specific character. The best way is to run sims
misty quarry
sim stat weight ?
hoary copper
Yes
lone junco
hoary copper
How to Sim Yourself: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/51a4p1/guide_to_simcrafting_dps/
patent tide
Raidbots or Pawn ?
lone junco
both
misty quarry
37/26/32 and max poly ?
lone junco
you take the weights from Raibots and put it into pawn.
hoary copper
lone junco
pawn doesnt account for set bonuses or trinkets.
hoary copper
lone junco
or effects like melandrus
patent tide
so i dont need Simulationcraft ?
lone junco
the simulation craft addon is best.
copy your string. and paste into the raidbots import box
but no, you dont need the full simc nightly exe
patent tide
so need /simcraft, raidbot online version, and Pawn ?
patent tide
i'm gonna read this 😄
lone junco
tbh, this is why I cant go back to a healer.
they use Excel
fuck that manual import bullshit
misty quarry
tat Weights
Weapon DPS
15.64
Haste
3.10
Critical Strike
3.05
Agility
3.00
Mastery
2.58
Versatility
2.47
Off Hand Weapon DPS
1.46
hoary copper
Its hard to figure out upgrades. Most the prepatch healers arent even updating their spreadsheet
misty quarry
hast 😮
lone junco
means your ilvl is fine. but swap out mastery for haste
just swap a ring/neck or ring ring. then run it again
hoary copper
I tried to figure out a way to get the stats from Armory to excel but I had issues trying to find the APL to do so
lone junco
its only for the next few stat points so it is not a FOREVER weight
hoary copper
Excel allows for it to happen
There would still be manual stuff like set bonuses (tho not for long)
lone junco
the excel pages are great, but holy shit why is there not a generic fight model for heals in simc
misty quarry
y i understand it
hoary copper
Discipline has an addon for sims, CantSim
Yea healing is weird for sim for heal potential too because I mean really heals can be limited by damage at least effective healing so you may never see near that much healing
lone junco
but all that is accounted for in the spreadsheet aka fight models.
im just not doing that gear update in a spreadsheet.
thanks but nah.
hoary copper
yea. Im glad I found the disc priest one.
Owner just needs to expand it to other classes
solar summit
guys, im doing 2v2 with feral druid and he wants me to start attacking rather than him starting
whats wisdom here?
solar summit
ok ty
alpine rain
225 Seeping Scourgewing simming better than 245 Eye of Command ? is this correct?
lone junco
prob yes
there are trinket lists and eoc tanked
Scourgewing probably scales well with haste. and since we have more than 0, it took off.
alpine rain
Mmm that makes sense thanks for the speedy reply ❤
hoary copper
to be sure
alpine rain
I did sim myself that's exactly why i asked...
hoary copper
I missed that part, but sims are usually right. Trust in the sim
narrow turret
Anyone here use Ipse's Weak Aura's and do you happen to have an update to the string for 8.0.1? Really enjoy the HUD but not skilled enough to rework it.
hoary copper
Pretty sure you delete it and reupload the new one
narrow turret
Yeah odd, reloaded it and still getting a conflict, could still be an issue with other addons.
stiff mountain
old war or prolonged pure ST?
stiff mountain
AIGHT
lone junco
@alpine rain its good to ask. I trust sims but also my intuition. occasionally the fight style or sim theory doesnt match ingame play . aka belt sim values.
hoary copper
Question nothing! 😄
hoary copper
Its the American way
lone junco
not mine
lone junco
And just remember, what you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening
strange python
blobn
wet owl
kinda noob here for assassination......haste food or mastery food?
supple hearth
@wet owl whatever stat gives u more DPS in ur sims
wet owl
okay perfect thank you!
slate tulip
is there any way to proc sephuz as rogue on boss liek aggramar/argus ?
hoary copper
How to Sim step by step: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/51a4p1/guide_to_simcrafting_dps/
Agg you prob can on adds
slate tulip
adds are too far 😦
wise frigate
You can stun the adds on Agg, Argus you can interrupt the split phase.
Other than that nah.
slate tulip
k thx
wise frigate
Well split + the wipe after rez thing.
hoary copper
considering it says you need to use CC, if it cant be CCed then you cant proc effect
wise frigate
^ CC/interrupts.
hoary copper
er yea forgot interrupts
wise frigate
Or dispells. Not sure if that matters for rogues. Wonder if the purge on BElf now works for that.
hoary copper
Playing belf in 2K18 
wise frigate
Too poor for race change back to glorious orc.
wise frigate
Yeah cause it was an interrupt.
I just more dunno if purges count as dispells though in this case.
Then again not much to purge in raid. Other than on like trash or something.
hoary copper
Maybe its like cloak? if cloak does maybe that does?
idk without playing it, but I dun wanna
Unless you want to pay for my faction change to and from 😄
inland cape
I'm newish to rogue, just came back. I read the guides here, and on wowhead.. just curious why shoulders are almost always used? Is it to just get more burst up front?
lone junco
with the opener you get 8 sec of 100% crit.
its a big deal especially with restealth between packs in M+
lone junco
hybrid crystal
what reason is there to mainly do 4-5 point finishers as assassination? is it just poison bomb procs, or am i missing something else?
lone junco
goal is uptime of dots and buffs.
a 3cp rupture doesnt really hurt, but critting a mut is 4. not critting is 2. so we have a lot of combos to get 4 or 5
hybrid crystal
just wondering coz if we're using Elaborate Planning, we could be getting higher uptime by using smaller finishers
lone junco
(tbh, i havent simmed prepatch for the 3cp rupture
wet owl
Poison Bomb or Crimson Tempest for mythic plus?
lone junco
CT
wet owl
deal
hybrid crystal
so i'm wondering if i missed something out in that thinking
lone junco
if you use EP
wet owl
EP?
lone junco
you can sim a sort of M+ with 8 mobs 20 sec or 4 mobs 40 sec
strange python
ep is already at ~90% uptime
Practically 100% on more than one target
if you feel like you are struggling to maintain ep try simming master poisoner
hybrid crystal
hmm okk will do haha. i'm definitely not near 90% uptime 😄
wet owl
im at 26% crit so is EP Elaborate Planning I assume?
strange python
yeah I got 44% crit and 25% haste. mp is still higher for me.
although my stats are just fine for ep
yes Stevy its elaborate planning
wet owl
Thanks xD im noob lmao
brisk forge
26%crit is low for EP imo
strange python
we were all noobs once
inland cape
Is subterfuge a must?
strange python
some of us are Noobes
wet owl
haha Ive ONLY healed for so long so this is all new lmao
strange python
subterfuge is generally better than the others but you might sim higher with nightstalker if you have the shoulders
hoary copper
is the real answer for talents tho
NS and sub had 0% difference for me
Using Sephuz/Wrist
lone junco
@inland cape for me, NS and Sub are actually 0 dps different.
and im using shoulder/bracer
inland cape
Oh, nice. I will sim it.
lone junco
EP/Sub/Vig/Tb/Pb
strange python
hmm I use sephuz wrist, maybe I should sim NS 😄
misty quarry
when i sim he say to me sephuz/ ravenholt lol
strange python
it lets me flight whistle in stealth
shy orbit
shoulders and bracer does highest sims for me
strange python
there are a lot of close legendary combos
hoary copper
I dont have insignia otherwise I would try that, but I have wrist/boots/helm/shoulders/sephuz and GA
Dont think the difference was huge
brisk forge
Insignia/wrists Sims highest for me, but there is some other combos that are close
So i Guess w/e xD
strange python
I even had vigor ring + mfd sim close
misty quarry
with 24% haste , vendetta boots isnt a good choice for more vendetta ?
wide delta
is there a wa to see how many mobs are in range? I used to have that for sub rogue sstorm but cant find it anymore
lone junco
vendetta boots just makes it so that your vanish doesnt align.
so if the sim says it sucks, it probably does.
hoary copper
sims is what you should be striving for or doing better than
brisk forge
Should be able to. So go and learn 👊🏻
shrewd night
Did you uh. Remember to apply poisons 
?
round harbor
Anyone willing to look at my argus kill last night and give some insight what I can improve?
brisk forge
Better to link vari or so
round harbor
Don't have any vari parses lil
shrewd night
Garothi?
rugged wren
guys on the Herodmg website I see almost every build using Exs.. even MT fights they the changed it into that all bleeds get effected by it?
fuc nvm
got bleed build selected not poison xD
strange python
when below 30% do you just straight up stop using mutilate and only use blindside?
lone junco
im pretty bummed about VR talent. flat reduction of mut seems pretty lame.
i liked Poison on bleed.
main blaze
Is that an old azerite trait that got tossed?
lone junco
which?
lone junco
the talent from legion was poison applications on bleed. or v/v.
now it just benefits mutilate
so wasted in a fok condition
main blaze
Ah yeah venom rush
strange python
How is Sephuz a BiS for ST? Especially in raids?
strange python
So just the Passive 2%?
orchid cove
well the full crit haste
hoary copper
haste effects bleeds now
main blaze
Also @round harbor you arent using seeping scourgewing trinket so much harder to get a higher parse.
arctic venture
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
strong crescent
Could someone tell me to what extent the off-hand weapon matters for rogues? I got a good dagger from the world quest and I'm using a ilvl 80 dagger with 3 sockets and dancing steel.
main blaze
For leveling, not much. You just need daggers for mutilate as Assn.
lone junco
@round harbor at me your log
strong crescent
I guess I'm wondering about something more specific. I understand why the we need daggers but I'm curious as to how much it contributes to damage... or anything for that matter.
main blaze
Scroll up a few messages
lunar berry
is raidbots bugged? No matter how i swap my gear around i always sim higher with spehyz's than insignia. Am i the only one?
main blaze
Nope
strange python
nah sephuz is bis for me too.
round harbor
Hmm ok
hoary copper
Everyone is different, but Sephuz is good now
strange python
you can post logs we don't bite.
hoary copper
He did
round harbor
Yeah I fuck up my vanish combos alot it seems
hoary copper
hoary copper
how much is a fuck load?
round harbor
Yeah this was my alt so I just stacked mastery from before
strange python
over 400.
strange python
you can try to item restore. it goes back 90 days.
round harbor
Already tried, it's gone lol
strange python
F
round harbor
Cause I know for fact I had a 960 scourewing
hoary copper
I used to sim high for ilvl, now its low QQ
strange python
need to be aware of tb cooldown so you dont have to refresh your bleeds during it
like here, delaying tb for a few seconds beats refreshing bleeds during it and not having any envenoms during it
round harbor
so refresh bleeds then tb
round harbor
if bleeds are longer than 8 seconds then im ok?
wheat zealot
10+ seconds
round harbor
ok, ive just been casting tb basically off cd and as a cp generator
wary hawk
anyone has a elaborate planning wa?
strange python
you're supposed to press it more or less on cd but you should be aware of the cd so you can refresh low bleeds before
hoary copper
still try planning around it
Idk if @civic palm HUD has EP with it, I would check wago.io and see
strange python
his ep is pretty smooth
also you should delay your first vanish until the first garrote has 5.4 seconds left
round harbor
and with bracers/sephuz i dont really cast anything with vanish except vanish>garrote?
strange python
well, I guess ~7 seconds since you vanish envenom first
point is you want to do another subterfuge garrote with the first garrote at 5.4 seconds left
round harbor
to clip the full duration
strange python
ye
lofty junco
envenom only with 5 or 4 too?
strange python
4+
round harbor
so then my opener goes sopmething like garrote > mut > rup > mut > vendeta > vanish/garrote > continue
lofty junco
garrote-mut-(mut)-rupture-vendetta-TB-....vanish-garrote(6 seconds remaining)
strange python
also regarding refreshing bleeds before tb
you can rupture at 3cp if it really comes down to it.
3cp ruptures aren't a huge deal.
round harbor
aslong as every cp of the tick gets used right?
hoary copper
The very last tick of rupture was doing like 15 damage when Miz was testing it the other day so refresh before 1 second for sure
remote wing
well with pandemic u can refresh in the last 8 secs and it will be added into the new one fyi
hoary copper
Right but we are talking if you somehow forget or dont do that
remote wing
ah ok
round harbor
down to my last bonus roll for a heroic scourgewing
=/ used 9 the last two weeks lol
and we dont even kill him on mythic anymore
vocal oasis
this might have been asked a million times already but, is there a haste cap?
supple mesa
So when using troll racial, is it best to pop it before vendetta?
Or later on
when lust wears out
strange python
just macro to vendetta
supple mesa
its a 3min cd tho
strange python
oh
Hi guys. If you play with cloak lego in m+, do you still spam FoK and just pretend it's not there?
hoary copper
No cap @vocal oasis but for statweights
vocal oasis
cool, ty
fickle olive
it doesn't matter what hand my best weapon is in does it
tardy prawn
would anyone be able to dm me assassination lv52 rotations? i feel like i cant perform well enough with Sin at this levvel but not sure
hoary copper
No one has a rotation for 52...you can probably tell from the 110 rotation and make it fit with level 52 based on skills tho
tardy prawn
for sure ty
frank aspen
Is assa good for leveling and what spec is blasting in bfa currently?
hoary copper
Yes, All
fringe ginkgo
royal lantern
use cd's on cd
fringe ginkgo
lol
frank aspen
!singuide
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
coral agate
😕 that still has Kingsbane as an ability and incorrect information
fringe ginkgo
coral agate
@fringe ginkgo I r dum
whole canyon
My experience this week, nope nope nope.
Was 20, team rage quit, was 19, really good team but we wiped so hard on last 2 bosses. Is it somehow overtuned?
lean hill
On fortified? They should die almost instantly
Tyrannical bosses were melting last week at that key level
whole canyon
I heard that adds in boss fights on fortified are OP.
So maybe those demons summoned, or shadows are stronger, idk.
Last boss, before intermission his aoe is so freaking strong.
lean hill
Oh god the portals on second last
whole canyon
Our druid pulling 6.2K hps overall on whole fight and he was surprised why it's so hard.
Otherwise he healed like a boss everything.
They said they smashed 20+ easily before pre-patch but now idk, it felt suddenly like much higher key.
lean hill
Might just be cath, it was broken as hell when it was first introduced
whole canyon
Second last, tank + heal survivors managed to kill it, demon adds 1 hit in melee = 90% hp gone.
I think so too... almost 1M hp feels wrong, when it should be 270% more hp on boss.
Normally it has like 120k on mythic? So 270% shouldn't be 1M, right?
lean hill
Sounds like firedogs issue? Magical damage hitting hard
Certain abilities like shadow volley in brh are doing a lot more than they used to
whole canyon
Maybe it's magical damage... this aoe before transition is just wipe fest.
Add 5 stacks of grevious too 😄
hoary copper
I saw a disc priest complaining about it with a +28
whole canyon
Some dude said he did higher key of that and he pulled 9K hps on his priest. Which is kinda insane.
We tried only 19.. can't imagine 28 lol.
I'd like to see 28 key with this week's affixes, seriously.
I guess it's fine. There's many dungeons. Could be a bragging right: "sup, I smashed 25 on CoeN on fortified easily" 😛
hoary copper
The priest I saw in FW was saying he was doing 10K hps
abstract moth
If i use shoulders, should i still do garrote after vanish or should i go vanish - envenom - mutilate - envenom?
whole canyon
Eh, disc strong again huh. The heals who did 9k was disc also.
Holy for life!
I think envenom for sure. So much damage.
hoary copper
Oh it was a 24 he did the 10K hps
abstract moth
Yeah, feels like i should be doing that still, not sure though
whole canyon
I can see barrier + spam shield, that's strong. Holy has HW: salvation but you don't use it in M+, so probably very hard to pull high numbers.
hoary copper
Well with leggos and damage and such right now, disc is pretty stronk
whole canyon
In BfA people go from resto druid to disc, so..
pff
like this method MDI player who resto'd all the way
now playing disc coz it's op
lone junco
@abstract moth if using shoulders, next depends on Subterfuge or NS. I play subterfuge. Vanish Env garrote mut Env mut env.
whole canyon
Oh, yea. Same. Thanks for the tip, gonna sneak in garrote there.
lone junco
garrote is in the first 3 sec after vanish.
whole canyon
Yea, forgot. Gotta cast it.
abstract moth
Yeah i use subterfuge, that makes sense. Thank you
molten timber
It depends on the lvl 30 talent you are using honestly. With subterfuge use garrote, with night stalker use envenom.
storm canopy
When manually downloading simc addon to beta, how accurate is the state weight when ran through Raidbots?
civic palm
@lone junco Yep all good.
civic palm
I really wish there was some different window that would present mentions O _O
lone junco
tiny little icons for default frame is shitty
civic palm
Sure are.
Yeah but, I want another window entirely =\
Might code something for that hmmm
last mortar
!guide
rustic nova
vestal wren
oh if you want to sim your character, raidbots is the fastest way
hollow rose
ok so I need some help
civic palm
?
hollow rose
so I was doing antorus norm, got the 4set now, but to use 4set I have to replace mantle with set shoulders
is sephuz and insignia a good combo
rotund pier
Yes
civic palm
Should SIM your collections to make sure your item levels don't push something different to the top.
strange python
use the raidbots top gear function or the addon simpermut to sim all your options at once.
hollow rose
yeah i will do that I just wanted to see another thing from u guys
rotund pier
Sim all your gear Combos AND talent combos
hollow rose
the guy I was doing the raid with said that Nightstalker was better than subterfuge (talent)
idk
strange python
there's no way anyone could give a definite answer to that because it depends on your gear and legendaries.
hollow rose
also do I go elaborate planning now I have the 4set
wild stone
Hi, is there a pandemic timer for garrote?
strange python
5.4s
hollow rose
also whats a pandemic timer
strange python
7.2s rupture
lone junco
rupture is based on the cps spent when you cast it the first time
hollow rose
reee
fresh wind
I'm looking at the rotation....
Why wouldn't I use Toxic Blade before rupture ?
wild stone
When you refresh Rupture Icon Rupture before it expires, the duration that was left is added to the new Rupture DoT, up to a maximum of 30% of the original duration. You can safely refresh a 5 Combo Point Rupture when it has 7.2 seconds or less remaining. Deeper Stratagem Icon Deeper Stratagem allows for 6 Combo Point Ruptures, which last 28 seconds. 6 Combo Point Ruptures can be refreshed safely when they have 8.4 seconds or less remaining. @hollow rose
strange python
toxic blade does nothing to a rupture and you essentially waste a gcd
fresh wind
Poison Bomb
fresh wind
So use it pre envenom only I am guessing?
strange python
yes you dont want to refresh your bleeds during toxic blade. Aim for 2 - 3 envenoms over its duration
but still make sure your bleeds dont fall off the target. Have to be aware of the toxic blade cooldown and prepare for it.
fresh wind
Makes sense. I was thinking that it might be worth it earlier to try and get more in per fight, but the logic makes sense.
fresh wind
2 seems easy enough without Marked for Death
lone junco
2 is normal. 3 is with shoulder lvl crit
if you can only do 1, you either were low E when you started, or have 0 crit and have to mut 2 times per
strange python
3 is like, during lust
strange python
@wild stone are you using finishers at 4+ cp
fresh wind
Is Blindside or Elaborate planning simming higher for everyone? Master Poisoner + Toxic Blade + DoT snapshot seems like it should be doing more. Or is the snapshot wiped ( or not applied ) on every reapplication?
strange python
finish at 4 or 5
wild stone
Okay coming from feral, we never use less than 5
strange python
dont mutilate at 4 cp it is a dire mistake
light kestrel
Regardless of the talent setup I simmed highest with MP+TB+PB
fresh wind
I've had no luck with blindside, but I also have shit for gear
strange python
try to clip envenom at the end of EP
strange python
but if you do that over and over you will run out of steam
so sometimes you have to back off to just the envenom buff for a cycle or two
kind of have to judge if you are going to be able to keep up EP or not
blindside is not yet that powerful / i guess it will come with gear in bfa. there you will see its power in executephases where high dps is needed
blindside seemed to be competitive at 120
y
at least during our preliminary sims
probably because no tier (master poisoner loses value) and lower stat scaling at 120 (harder to maintain EP)
but to answer you pandemic and garrote questions use notter´s insane nice wa for not overcapping empowered ones aswell
goes for bleed spec aswell
wise frigate
Subterfuge empowerment tracking seems a bit fucky since 8.0 with Notter's stuff.
fresh wind
I am just seeing trouble with how blindside produces more overall DPS with the increase in energy per combo point.
strange python
sup is not and buff anymore so it sucks to track
civic palm
Subterfuge empowerment seems broken entirely.
strange python
i use a a timer for it / aka out of stealth i have a 3 sek timer
blindside is great on the proc
yeah my notters broke.
fresh wind
Are you still using Mutilate in the execute window then, relying on the proc? Or always using on proc and always using in execute window?
strange python
@strange python did you delete some of it ?
in ex with blindside you only use dispatch
hollow rose
guys I have 30% haste now.. I know Im supposed to go crit now but
strange python
probably somehow
hollow rose
uh
strange python
prolly around the same i have so you see versa becomes more strong than mastery
but that was my sim
when mastery gets a higher weight than crit, to answer your question. But thats unlikely
hollow rose
ok im running the sim for stat weights now
but the last time I did it i didnt know what i was looking at 😦
strange python
mastery is probably your lowest.
link ill help you m8
It will say like Crit: 2.75
which means each point in crit increases your dps by 2.75.
what sim you using ? i normally just use raidbots
wise frigate
Higher number = more value from that stat.
strange python
so will this spec be good for bfa?
hollow rose
wise frigate
So ilvl, then haste, then crit.
civic palm
8⃣
hollow rose
ok what does this mean
civic palm
It means you get that number of DPS per 1 increase in that stat.
Like the bottom says.
hollow rose
ahhh I was in mythic+ gearset
strange python
looking sek
wise frigate
So yeah, ilvl is king for you right now, then look for haste/crit.
strange python
ish id say / best is ofc if you have haste on it and even crit. but yeah crit versa is ok
he means agility is highest which comes with item level.
since crit is close to main stat there only 0,3 deff
hollow rose
so an upgade of +5 agility would give me a dps increase of 3.02 x 5?
wise frigate
Ish yeah. Depending on the stats on the new piece as well, it could be more or less than the 15.1
strange python
but agility is not the only stat on an item.
acoustic bane
Wait is ilvl really the main thing now? I swear it was stats like haste and crit >.>
civic palm
Depends on your weights..
lean hill
If you get a slightly higher piece that has the 2 lower stats in your sims replacing one with the 2 higher weights it wont necessarily be an upgrade
sacred citrus
what are all these memelaw rogues doing in here? O.o
lean hill
Didnt realize we weren't allowed out of our cage 🙃
hollow rose
well i think its just that im 219 so
not that high
Im only recently getting into normals and mythic +15's
sacred citrus
@lean hill more like i didn't realize normal people were let IN our cage.
lean hill
Lol I was sin main more than outlaw or sub during legion
acoustic bane
😂 Hey now we want to learn all specs for rogue. Play the class not the spec right?!
crimson terrace
@lone junco and for smaller pulls, just dot up 1 target and fok ct spam?