#assassination
supple hearth
dire spoke
kchchch
arctic isle
and the 'others' are in the wrong
limpid solstice
trail swan
@arctic isle that is you though, you act like everything you say is law
arctic isle
only when it's right
trail swan
you perfectly described yourself
arctic isle
i wouldnt argue if i was wrong
civic palm
I mean, you could be wrong without knowing.
wise frigate
Seems fitting rn.
civic palm
Any of you could.
arctic isle
just like you
civic palm
GET THAT CRAP GAME OUTTA HERE.
wise frigate
LOL
dire spoke
I came at the right time it seems
queen epoch
me too lol
civic palm
But in this case, I know I am not wrong :3
arctic isle
you were completely wrong in the discussion and then act as if you're still higher up than anyone who types in the chat
unless they are a regular
lol
trail swan
princess you're just embarrassing yourself at this point
arctic isle
supple hearth
hold on hold on. Someone give me both arguments here we can settle it
civic palm
Do you think that;
The current AA system locks you out of more or less gear upgrades than the previous, tier based system?
arctic isle
problem with tier is locking people into slots
wise frigate
TLDR: Instructions unclear. Dick stuck in helicopter.
arctic isle
i said ap gear does the same thing
civic palm
tuck?
wise frigate
I'm half asleep and I misplaced my space bar okay
supple hearth
So what are the facts not the "do u think/feel that"
arctic isle
what i said are the facts
supple hearth
bring forth the numbers
radiant robin
theres no numbers regarding this issue lol
civic palm
The FACT, is that if I want to upgrade my shoulders, my chest piece isn't locking me out of doing it.
dire spoke
I feel like master assassin is the stronger talent
dusty roost
Vendetta in the opener a dps increase? Were the guides simply never updated? I'd say there's a lot of variance in that, especially considering how many mut crits + energy gains from 4p + 4cb envenoms within your vendetta window. Not to mention fights you save vedetta for specific points. Is it purely a simulation thing but not a practicality?
civic palm
WRONG ZEMP
arctic isle
that was never the discussion
civic palm
MATHEMATICALLY INCORRECT.
civic palm
That was my point, you failed to see that.
arctic isle
no
limpid solstice
arctic isle
u have 5 pieces of tier
supple hearth
dang after their explanations I still don't understand what the argument is over. Is it possible neither do they
civic palm
Yes, I stated my point, and then you stated something else entirely, showing your failure to grasp my original point.
dire spoke
you're not alone Gigglebabe
trail swan
lmao
wraith anchor
arctic isle
how can u be locked to tier when u have 5 slots
trail swan
wtf is going on
wraith anchor
grab the popcorn boys
strange python
LOUD NOISES
trail swan
princess you have been arguing in this channel for forever, get a hobby
arctic isle
prove me wrong
trail swan
get out, do stuff, smile
civic palm
Your UPGRADES, are LOCKED, because your TIER, demands YOU MAINTAIN THE TIER IN OTHER SLOTS FOR THE BONUS.
PoopyGIF.
wraith anchor
im sayin, i ask one thing earlier and princess went full big dick on me with some attitude
supple hearth
idk @arctic isle & @civic palm I'm making an executive decidion to end the debate. You guys are welcome to continue it in PMs but not here anymore.
Everything in regards to that debate below this line gets deleted. If I have to delete ur message twice ur gonna get a time out
strange python
it's kicking off
dire spoke
wraith anchor
trail swan
finally
sharp nova
trail swan
@arctic isle in the future when people write or ask something I suggest you dont act like you're some alpha and have an attitude to everyone.
civic palm
#off-topic you dorks.
wraith anchor
WE STARTIN AGAIN BOYS 
sharp nova
arctic isle
no im not
trail swan
and I got a warning for it
arctic isle
then stop @ me
strange python
civic palm
🔨
trail swan
but its because you constantly have an attitude to people
arctic isle
stop trying to teach me a lesson or prove a point when ur way worse
wise frigate
Such PMs, much WoW.
trail swan
you need to chill
tacit badge
I love lamp...
trail swan
for reals
supple hearth
STOP BOTH OF U LOL
trail swan
I CANT
supple hearth
I ended it
trail swan
SHE PISSES ME OFF
sharp nova
wraith anchor
Im gonna go ahead and vanish myself right outta here before i get in trouble for being here
strange python
blissful moss
anyone like using marked for death over vigor for myth+?
civic palm
MFD is very strong when there are resets.
strange python
i feel like vigor's better on teeming
limpid solstice
^
civic palm
There are some keys where, yeah, you want one thing over another.
wraith anchor
wait rogue has uses outside of pvp? fucking poggers
quaint rune
any1 know an addon or a way to show my energy on the enemy nameplate with my combo points?
dire spoke
quaint rune
without WA or elvui
civic palm
No.
No with those options as well, I think.
CP on target sure, energy, not sure anyone has ever asked for that before now.
dire spoke
what happens if there are 5 mobs?
civic palm
Current target, dork 😛
quaint rune
only show the energy on the one I have tab target'ed
i guess putting my default UI hp/energy above my character instead of under it would work too
the resource bar
limpid solstice
Any of you run Tempest on M+ so far ?
ornate gazelle
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if logs are showing Cinidaria doing more percent damage than Insignia, I should run that right?
civic palm
Incorrect.
Cini shows well as SIMs are with only 1 player under a situation in which there is no interaction.
The more players in your group DPSing the target the less Cini is worth in a practical setting.
civic palm
Cini is worth more if there are multiple high HP adds introduced during the encounter.
ornate gazelle
if cini has like 2% on the same fight as insignia having 1%, i should run cini right?
my own logs
not sims
strange python
cini is crit mastery
civic palm
Either way if you are having better results with it than something else, rock on.
strange python
but yeah the cini bonus usually does more than the insignia extra dmg
civic palm
Would be better if we had more front-loaded CDs.
strange python
extra dmg isnt totally what makes insignia great
ebon sedge
Hey guys, Ilvl > anything right now for Relics?
civic palm
Correct.
strange python
I was using bracers+insignia
quiet ginkgo
Will sin still use daggers as weapon for bfa?
supple hearth
Yes
ornate gazelle
requires two daggers
barren lark
uhh shoulders and bracers still for prepatch?
winged belfry
hey guys whats a good talent build for mythic +?
smoky bluff
sim it
quiet ginkgo
Okay thanks :feelsbadman:
lucid bolt
I finally got an mmo mouse I had no idea how much of a help it is
past star
my legendarys changed great
lucid bolt
what talents do u guys recommend for pvp talents?
im doing gladiators, deadly brew, honor among thieves, and creeping venom
strange python
maybe system shock instead of honor among thieves
violet river
pliant vortex
which legendary is the most efficient/powerful for assassination? i'm usin mantle, and ravenholdt. can you guys recommend somethin else?
pliant vortex
sephuz or bracers with mantle?
dusty roost
for m+ i've found 2210223 works well, but i imagine there will be mixed results based on other dps and different affixes. i've been trying a few leggo combos but i'm still favouring bracers/insignia. it's worth your time to run a few combos on the same key if you can, also varies a lot on the size of pulls etc.
pliant vortex
somebody told me that single target = poison bomb, multiple targets +3 = crimson tempest is that rite?
honest compass
Ye
civic palm
Yeah.
pliant vortex
so let's say i'm in +15 eye of azshara. there are multiple targets and single target at the same time. which talent will you take? Poison or crimson
dusty roost
personally i'd go crimson
pliant vortex
so if u took crimson for +15, do you use them on the single target for dot damage?
dusty roost
given the size of some of the pulls. but if you had ww/afflock with you, probably wouldn't matter
on ST i don't think CT gives any benefit, unless say you need to run away for mechanics
serpentrix going under for example, dot him up
dusty roost
nope, garrote and rupture are your energy gainers
civic palm
Right.
pliant vortex
thx 4 suggestion
civic palm
It's best there, better than other options elsewhere as well though.
pliant vortex
can u guys briefly tell me how you open your cycle?
dusty roost
i think CT will be stronger on fortified when adds live longer, with bracers
civic palm
rotation is in Pins.
main blaze
Its also the topic too
civic palm
When it's off CD.
and you will be able to hit the target it is applied to for the entire duration.
pliant vortex
thx guys. really helped. you guys will all get 255+ titanforged
civic palm
pffft, I need 340 gear not 255!!
dusty roost
TB should come after vendetta in your opener, hits harder 😃
fringe ginkgo
♿
honest compass
My opener is garrote mutilate rupture mutilate tb vendetta envenom
Not sure if that’s optimal
But it’s been working for me
dire spoke
🙄
civic palm
mmm, anything can work for anyone, but TB hasn't had its' damage scaling changed IIRC and still hits hard ye?
honest compass
I try to dump my energy before using vendetta
blazing solstice
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
civic palm
Course it is.
honest compass
Mythic t20 is 885 base, titanforge couldn’t put that up to 960
Well not now but you get it
civic palm
_>
honest compass
T21
T20 is tomb of sargeras
Mb I was looking at heroic
Wowhead doesn’t have mythic listed properly
honest compass
I wish I was tbh
dire spoke
god bless 2p4p sims poopy for me
honest compass
Drunk bfa leveling is in the cards for me lmao
tight ravine
plush dirge
anyone know where to find the latest sims ?
round harbor
what are gonna be bis leggos for leveling? sephuz/crafted boots?
civic palm
That's if the boots even work out there on launch.
Probably shoulders for killing speed.
rapid stump
anyone know what the secondary ratings per 1% are at 120?
strange python
rogue assa go haste n ow, lol
hidden grail
Hey I haven't played a rogue since WOTLK and I have an ability question. What's teh purpose of shadow step in combat? Does it synergize with another ability. Just alone it seems useless. Just a 2 second run buff
wanton plinth
Rotation help I'm getting confused running Subterfuge and doing an opener in LFR.
Am I supposed to use Mutilate in this window?
civic palm
In which window?
safe matrix
@hidden grail its a gap closer that can be used on both allies and enemies
you can use it to increase uptime
dire spoke
Yes, do rotations in your WoW.exe window
safe matrix
or dodge mechanics
wanton plinth
In the window in which your stealth abilities continue to be used
honest compass
civic palm
oh the Subterfuge window.
hidden grail
@safe matrix TYVM
civic palm
Yeah just so long you get that Garrote out there from opening and after Vanish you Mutilate otherwise, or ENV or whatever comes up.
wanton plinth
Hmm, right. I will read some more
civic palm
👌
feral ridge
Helloo, i see some logs form mythiv Antorus, its legit if they switch trinket from SSF to Seeping scourgewing? why? 😮 and most used lego combination is now shoulders and insignia ring?
civic palm
Prepatch happened and threw up all over the spec.
Check the pins and the guide in the top topic for changes.
feral ridge
y i was seeing it yesterday...but i see another builds toping dps on single target encounters than are presented in this guide. I just search why are so different. now iam using 2110021 on single target, like most of them. It makes sense for me. But one thing is mystery for me 😄 Dat Seeping trinket. Proc from Seeping is now stronger than stat boost from proc SSF? Its unbelievable 😮
warm parcel
What is this magic build
feral ridge
I see this rogue, second at garothi fight https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/17#boss=2076
dire spoke
Do you actually have a question?
every item dps proccing is overtuned right now, trinkets, hidden satyr enchant, old war pots
and so on
feral ridge
oh, this is what i want to hear...so its much better globaly to use trinkets and pots what are generate dps ability than those with generating stats, right?
dire spoke
In most cases, you always need to simulate your available items on your own toon
check out gear compare on raidbots.com
feral ridge
okay, thanks for your time guys (and girls maybe?) 😄
dire spoke
you wish
feral ridge
Noooo 😄
civic palm
We're not going on a date anyway it's going to be fucking 100F outside and I'd rather not take a ride in a fucking oven.
dire spoke
to bad I can't show off my cute little but
civic palm
but what...
soft island
@hidden grail it's dps CD. You hit target sooner, more stabby stabby more dps.
Lol my discord on phone scrolled up. Liavre already answered. Sorry MB. Stewpid phone.
dire spoke
you dummy >_ <
open reef
whats best food buff on prepatch ?
open reef
not felmouth fish ?
civic palm
Might be if your VERS is high enough.
safe matrix
Also there are a few foods from previous expansions that weren't adjusted properly yet
But I can't recall them specifically
wet yew
Old versa flask got nerfed afaik
orchid cove
anyone still has bfa sims btw ?
honest needle
when do u want to pool energy as assasination ?
dire spoke
to fit more Env inside TB
the rotation lets you pool by nature because you only clip buffs, button spamming only exists inside TB
unborn turtle
whats bis legendaries for assass rn
i heard cape was broken
the link in resources says to go insignia + sephuz??? is that including interrupts?
solid nova
Sephuz sims does not include procs, just the flat haste
Pinned link has hero damage breakdowns for legendary combinations which is up to date
unborn turtle
ur telling me sephuz is actually good now? tf
solid nova
For a more accurate answer based on your own character you'll need to sim yourself
Stat priorities have changed with prepatch yeah
unborn turtle
well i have boots atm should i just get wrists
ripe scaffold
obviously it'll be good if haste is our highest simming ST stat
unborn turtle
what about dreadlords i heard it was busted right now
unborn turtle
ok
dire spoke
you can use gear compare on raidbots.com to figure out which legendary will be your biggest upgrade
unborn turtle
well i feel like getting wrists just to say i had wrists and boots
gleaming hare
hey which leggos should i aim to get first ? got bracer shoulder and ring (insignia) but can resell it for another leggo
solid nova
You can sim on raidbots for gear you dont have and make a comparison from that
deep beacon
There's a wide variety of viable lego combos atm
I highly recommend you try them out and read the pins and see what might sim higher or what might be more fun for you 😃
gleaming hare
i see i'll try to sim but it looks like i just need to get sephuz for leveling
deep beacon
I love sehpuz in most M+ though
weary jungle
what are the soft cap and hard cap for haste?
deep beacon
Don't think that's even known at this point or would matter since no one is 120 or there is still so much tuning to happen
weary jungle
oh okay
from my sims, I seem to do more dps with insignia and bracers, instead of insignia and sephuz
¯_(ツ)_/¯
deep beacon
Yeah well M+ is another ball game when it comes to sims 😃
soft island
I still sim best with shoulders bracers
Insignia and sepurtz are quite behin
So SYS. Sim yo self
spring zephyr
dire spoke
yes
main blaze
Yeah bracers will sim better if you have bad non legendary bracers and a good ring
I have a good ring, good bracers and shitty non-tier shoulders so shoulders/sephuz sims highest
brisk forge
Ehh, everything depends on all your items not only if you have bad or good wrists
soft island
Yeah I have op rings 255 haste crit so... And garbage wrists and shoulders, that's why
dire spoke
F
high siren
hey guys, first time trying sin, sorry if it has already been answered, but I didn't see it in the guide : should I pool energy before using toxic blade ?
solid nova
During your TB window you want to fit in as many envenoms as you can to utilise the buff. Try to manage DoTs preemptively of this window.
At lower gear you might need to pool for it but the pooling window will decrease as gear gets better for you.
TLDR: Yes, but pooling becomes less necessary with more gear.
high siren
by better gear, you mean getting more haste ?
solid nova
For me personally I'm Haste-Crit in terms of stat priority.
high siren
is there a haste "breakpoint" at which i could be comfortable ?
solid nova
Naturally more haste will be a benefit, but with higher crit I need to pool far less due seal fate procs
high siren
I currently have 20% haste
royal lantern
i think it was 20-22%?
quartz depot
it's more like 26%ish
royal lantern
or more like: @20% crit starts too scale better then haste for most people, but, well, sim your self too be safe
quartz depot
also depends how much crit you have
quartz depot
like, i'm at 48.5% crit and 26.5% haste, and haste is still my highest stat weight
royal lantern
cus 48.5% crit is fking high lol
dire spoke
I should have become SB, had the morning shift now it's your turn Richard
solid nova
With the NA, EU and irregular sleeping patterns, we're pretty covered now 😄
Gud guy Zempai holding the fort ❤
plain thistle
royal bronze
does exsanguate ever pull ahead on m+
shrewd night
dire spoke
twin prism
:XD:
dire spoke
nice argument
twin prism
no need to argue about dogshit opinions
trail swan
toxic blade is so much better
shrewd pine
yea, I forgot that passive 30% damage is more engaging than faster bleeds.
trail otter
I would like an alternative bleed build that is viable that would be coolk
trail swan
It's insane burst
trail otter
but I like ass rn
besides envenom hitting like a truck
and being too stronk
who doesnt like ass
trail swan
I like ass too
twin prism
i am an ass man
trail otter
oh this is off topic... errr.... I liek dots.
main blaze
Exsanguinate is a on use talent that modifies the rotation while its activated. Thats a good thing. Toxic blade just adds damage to the rotation, and Venom rush is completely passive
dire spoke
@twin prism 
"dogshit talent" is usually the feedback blizzard ignores aswell, so expressing your opinion like that is a complete waste of time
strange python
tb isn't braindead, you have to be aware of the cd and possibly pool for it. want to get 2 - 3 envenoms during it
green belfry
Thats close to braindead I would say.
strange python
🤔
main blaze
You are pooling most of the time to envenom anyway
trail otter
I mean it's a 45 sec cd though
that's 45 secs of a boring ass rotation
I'd rather press a button twice in that time then wait that long
green belfry
For me I would like to have talents that increase the skill ceiling. Thus you need to play good to capitalize. Sadly there are none that do that.
main blaze
Sure TB is better than venom rush for design but I wouldnt say its better than exsanguinate and vice versa but to call it dogshit with no actual criticism or thought is silly.
trail otter
I mean I think they have to just add more abilities to the base kit, talents there's already like no room to move
talking from a pure design stand point not strength
the strength can be adjusted with numbers
green belfry
I think the overall complexity of WoW in general wont increase, thus no more abilities and/or game changing talents.
strange python
removal of vendetta artifact trait made exsang less fun
strange python
could line up exsang with vendetta if you have 3 vendetta relics + boots
trail otter
cuz theyve removed abilities up to this point and wont add more
strange python
removal of tier 21 is gonna make the spec feel awful
green belfry
I am mind boggled when they said that each row has talents that represent easy to more demanding talents. But often the balance is off and sometimes a simple passive talent yields more DPS than a "rotation changing" talent.
trail otter
I mean the real answer is that they really dont give a fuck enough to change it
strange python
mp vs ep
trail otter
Also appealing to casuals is game devs favorite thing to do
strange python
is quite different
trail otter
which is sad
green belfry
Thats why I said often. mp vs ep is a good example of proper tuning.
strange python
That implies the rotationally interesting talents MUST be better than the others or they're doing it wrong...?
yea I think ep is a great example of a rotationally interesting talent
green belfry
I would say on average they should be equal dps wise. But if you master it you could gain a bit of dps increase.
strange python
on paper sounds dull, but really changes how you play
green belfry
Yeah ep gives you something to juggle. Keeping an additional ball in the air, so to say.
trail otter
at the same time
it's subjective so it's whatever , but like me personally I prefer MP cuz I think the utility is fun
the increased deadly brew , crippling , and just damage increase on everyone
I have more fun with
then just single target bashing someones head in with EP MFD
so at the end of the day
it's just subjective
green belfry
Thats a totally valid opinion.
in case of vigor vs DS vs MFD I feel like vigor wins atm (dps wise) but I would love to make use of MFD and have a slight edge over a passive talent.
trail otter
pvp wise I think MFD / EP is the way to go rn
u just one shot in opener
but I have more fun vigor / MP
strange python
mfd is pretty good in m+, I use it
strange python
sadly without tier 21 vigor will probably be even better
green belfry
Maybe I am overestimating vigor in M+ environment. Yeah energy regeneration will be slow at the beginning for sure.
trail otter
Hitting a person for a solid 4 mins I felt more energy starved in BFA
than in legion
not sure why
maybe we just are that energy starved
trail otter
120
trail otter
for some reason when I have multiple bleeds and poisons up I feel more energy from venomous wounds than in legion
but I think it's the exact same
so maybe im crazy
oh prolly cuz mroe garrotes up
actually
cuz lower cd
strange python
because 120 stat scaling and no tier
steep obsidian
jovial kite
green belfry
Right now pack of 3s in M+ and I cant spend all that overflowing energy. Feels more like GCD locked 😄
brazen bane
does 4 set work in BGs?
tender folio
Will we get any gear from weekly chest this week ?
trail otter
ye aoe I dont feel energy starved at all
I was talkin ST
for sure have more energy aoe now
lofty junco
had readed something that i not udnerstand whats the difference between a rupture and a rupture (DS)?
strange python
@tender folio yes you can look at the chest tooltip in the m+ group finder tab. But apparently m+15 only gives you ilvl 209 gear which is.... lower than what a m+15 loot will give
6 cp rupture just lasts longer
strange python
rupture does same damage per second regardless of cp
lofty junco
ahh ty
tender folio
@strange python Yeah I saw that , but 209 gear doesnt feel right >.>
strange python
yea I'm hoping it is a display error or something
empty elbow
Pretty sure it is
tender folio
I mean its pre-patch and all of that but still i like to see good gear and procs drop :3
empty elbow
Because it also says it gives you an ap reward
strange python
normally it gives 960 which is 240
tender folio
Ye
strange python
also in beta you can get more than one item from the chest
If you're lucky
how are you guys using Blindside ability?
use it on proc but dont spam it in execute. Not worth it
lofty junco
any stealth garrote is empowered?
strange python
with subterfuge any garrote used from stealth or 3 seconds after leaving stealth is empowered
so you can put an empowerd garrote on potentially 3 targets
green belfry
I just saw 1cp CT dot dmg = 207.25 dps; 5cp CT dot dmg = 207.17 dps. They stole 0.08 dps from us!
Had to edit mixed it up 😛
lofty junco
its a realy good feeling how much often that new poison bomb proccs^^
solid nova
Not for me, you should sim the T1 talents for an accurate answer
trail otter
yeah poison bomb prolly one of my favorite abilities real talk
strange python
richard!
strange python
you're golden!
solid nova
Yeah, Friday 😄
strange python
grats
solid nova
Thanks mate ❤
strange python
Does EP snapshots our current dots?
@green belfry shouldnt it be 0.08 / tick rate :P
lofty junco
vigor, posion bomb and TB every time the best options for ST? ask cause i don't want to sim 10000 different settings^^
strange python
no ep doesnt snapshot
tb is probably always better
pb... probably
@strange python sorry should have been more clear. I was talking about Elaborate Planning
lofty junco
and vigor?
strange python
yeah I know, ep doesnt snapshot
kool. so can i use a finisher to empower new dots?
dots update dynamically
k
lofty junco
wasn't dot-snapshoting "deleted"?
strange python
I think feral druids still do it.
lofty junco
i had heard blizz canceled snapshoting and that was the reason most snapshoting weakauras doesn't work anymore
terse whale
wait rogue have dots? 😮
strange python
we assassinate with a slow and painful death
lament dove
target is like hey man wtf, why am I dying...?
vernal adder
make me outlaw get me out of this dirty ass land
lament dove
it's an art
strange python
are stats one of the main reason why ring is better than bracers?
green belfry
Can the triple target herodamage simulations be taken as proper estimation for M+ environment? Or are those adds something like botanica fight?
strange python
internal bleeding should be buffed. imagine kidney punching someone so hard you give them internal bleeding.
I think you can change the number of targets manually
never done a non single target sim so idk
I remember someone doing a 30 target sim or smth just to see what happens
green belfry
😄 pulling all the bosses in a raid if it would be possible.
Yeah never mind. I think triple fight with a boss is no where close to a M+ setting. Gonna have to do some more M+ to get a feeling for best setup.
lofty junco
so will now EP buff garrote/rupture or not?
strange python
I like mfd + ns + ct. But I also like subt + sephuz
green belfry
If you have garrote / rupter on your target and then cast a finisher it will increase the damage of the dots
strange python
EP will buff all of your damage you do in those 4 seconds
green belfry
ATM i am doing the subt + sephus + CT combo. Feels nice I wonder if the MFD + ns version would be even better
lofty junco
CT?
green belfry
crimson tempest
green belfry
Yeah that iron wire auto proc on sephuz is nice head start for your dots.
lofty junco
was just wodnering cause from my SIMs Master poisoner is just 0,3% behind EP and could in some scenarios be better then just EP
deep beacon
I feel kinda less without having my garrotes
strange python
well EP only gets better in multi target
lofty junco
PB doesn't get the MP bonus anymore right?
strange python
correct
green belfry
Yeah I think i mixed it up when garrote didnt have silence integrated a long time ago.
lofty junco
so EP for MT and MP for ST IIRC?
green belfry
EP wins ST as well
green belfry
I am so sad that i missed cloak HB wombocombo.
strange python
depends on your gear and haste
vestal wren
ep wins in st on 110
on 120 all 3 are close
BS will likely end up the default choice in st
and EP will be the choice in aoe
strange python
fuu, you only use blindside on proc correct?
lofty junco
i think MP is better for fights where ya don't have a 100% uptime on the boss
strange python
you mean you use it in execute if you dont have venom rush?
ep will rarely get 100% uptime anyway
vestal wren
you just use it when it procs
unless you run vr where you use it all the time in execute phase
strange python
but why, vr doesnt work with blindside
vestal wren
but again VR is not compatitive atm so 🤷
drifting cosmos
do you just copy the wtf file over if you want to transfer 'profiles' in weakaura?
green belfry
I think VR gives you enough energy to make BS work?
strange python
if anything vr makes you want to mutilate more
terse whale
probably cause without VR it's not possible !
it just drag all your energie and doing not that much cp
green belfry
You are correct connor. My logic was flawed 😄
Maybe I was right? Something, something, energy. 🤔
strange python
sorry fuu didnt mean to put you in the spotlight
dire spoke
fuu just likes to hear himself talk
lofty junco
i think MP is better for fights where ya don't have a 100% uptime on the boss. like bomb(argus), portals(hasabel) etc.
vestal wren
oh, i did not invest why exactly vr makes it better to use
it just was the only condition that changed the behaviour
vestal wren
the standard condition was to always use it when aviable
however this was not always best use case and so i invested some time into looking into the use and this is what it ended up 🤷
let me quick run a sim for it
strange python
I appreciate it
vestal wren
🤔
i cant find the talent combination where its not equal
this means it is in general w/e if you use it when it procs or always
something seems not right, it does not use blindside always on the default sim
vestal wren
letme try sth
oh wait
actions.direct+=/blindside,if=variable.use_filler&(buff.blindside.up|!talent.venom_rush.enabled)
it was the other way around
only use it when it procs if you have vr up, else just use it
moment letme correct that in the guide
so yes you where right, use it always on execute if you dont have vr
velvet nacelle
is blindside the new hotness? i didn't give it much time in my casual experiments
opal adder
On a sim like that where do you see the actual abilities used over time (other than the APL showing the script)
strange python
good to know
dire spoke
there is only a sample sequence displayed as a table/list
opal adder
Thank you very much - yes I meant actual skill usage over time like how warcraft logs shows
vestal wren
@strange python thanks for pointing that out 👍
velvet nacelle
i dunno that you can pull a timeline out of simc, keep in mind it's simming like 10k iterations
empty elbow
@vestal wren I was gonna say if you have a talent that directly benefits from usage of mutilate wouldn’t that make it the other way around lol
Glad it was caught
velvet nacelle
pulling a single timeline out of that wouldn't necessarily be indicative of what your rotation looks like, especially since there's procs to watch for, etc.
vestal wren
ye i was making a mistake there^^
opal adder
Makes sense - appreciate the clarification
velvet nacelle
typically i'll look at the % breakdown of skill usage/damage and compare that to my own parses when things are more stable
dire spoke
That doesn't exist @opal adder , only a list https://snag.gy/PDFBM8.jpg
vestal wren
i did add the "always under 30%" to the guide, so this should be right now
velvet nacelle
atm things are pretty odd so i'm honestly not really following many guides and just playing whatever feels "fun"
strange python
np 👌
velvet nacelle
for all we know, fuu could find a crazy interaction we didn't know about yesterday and that could change everything
vestal wren
i doubt that
velvet nacelle
i believe in you fuu
empty elbow
On top of that @vestal wren I’d add a when taking venom rush and blindside at the same time it’s more beneficial to mutilate after 30% anyways whereas without taking vr and still taking blindside you just spam anyways
vestal wren
i think thats more confusing
velvet nacelle
@vestal wren safe to assume the ravenholdt quickie is gonna stay up to date?
vestal wren
its more of an optimization point
vestal wren
sure the quick guide will be there til we have a full featured bfa guide ready
empty elbow
Ok gucci
velvet nacelle
wish i had time to theorycraft more and stuff with y ou guys
lunar nebula
Anyone else having problems with WA not displaying poison bomb procs anymore?
devout jolt
yup
lunar nebula
been tryin to fix that shit for hours now... -.-
lunar nebula
I'd be happy with a sound queue of sort if visual is not working, any other addon that could do the trick?
strange python
it does so little damage and doesnt change your rotation, why do you want one?
sorry I guess that is besides the point.
Idk any addons for it
devout jolt
just my ocd kicking in knowing i once had one
lunar nebula
thanks
calm bronze
Anyone got a good sin WA they could recommend?
regal trellis
^ please and thank you
vestal wren
poison bomb is now less important
so playing the rotation right actually is relevant
mellow pasture
weak isle
i got a pb WA that works
regal trellis
pb?
weak isle
poison bomb
devout jolt
pickpocket/bandage
empty elbow
Rank 1 strat^
sonic orbit
In the sin opener, is there a reason why you wouldn't just reapply garrote immediately after opening with it to get a full 24 seconds out of the first empowered garrote? So instead of just opening with garrote -> mutilate -> mutilate ... , you would just garrote -> garrote (again) -> mutilate ...
quartz depot
because you'd have lower empowered uptime?
sonic orbit
how so?
vestal wren
you reapply it within pancemic with vanish
sonic orbit
well yeah you would still reapply it with the vanish
but the first garrote would be 24 seconds instead of 18
quartz depot
basically, inta reapplying only equals to 1 empowered garrote + few seconds, while delaying it equals to 2 empowered garrotes
vestal wren
you would waste a lot of garrote time with that
sonic orbit
it would just be one global wouldn't it?
quartz depot
no
pliant vortex
is sephuz gud 4 assassination?
sonic orbit
No i'm not saying to reapply garrote again with vanish in the opener. You can use garrote again immediately after the opener due to subterfuge
Since for 3 seconds after stealth you can still use garrote and it's empowered
plus no cd
somber egret
Wouldn’t you be wasting to much energy to get 3 seconds additional garrote?
sonic orbit
it cost no energy right?
vestal wren
it has no cooldown
sonic orbit
nvm it does cost energy
vestal wren
it might be not that big of a dps loss to do
sonic orbit
You would get 6 additional seconds though Brozzy
somber egret
I mean it costs energy and delays getting EP up on the already empowered garrote
vestal wren
but its dev. not a win
letme sim quick
ye it does not rly change a lot
still not a win
edgy latch
which is the most patchwerk-type boss in antorus?
havent played since EN
was to go through some logs
sonic orbit
cool, thanks for the sim. Worth looking at
vestal wren
first one
vestal wren
or vari on hc
pliant vortex
have question guys. I heard from somebody that sephuz is good for assassination. But i was wondering : it's only good in keystone coz u can stun minions rite? i don't think it's good for raids coz they are immune to stuns. am i correct?
edgy latch
isnt this opener incorrect?
using vanish with envenom instead of garrote
top parse for garothi
somber egret
May be using Ns and shoulders?
vestal wren
hes using subterfuge
and ye, its likely due to shoulders, not sure if its actuall better
pliant vortex
i don't refill garrote unless it has less than 4 secs
edgy latch
so basically envenom and refresh garr in all vanishes
fast nacelle
he's still in sub windows but i'm pretty sure its better to refresh with pademic
you can start pooling a bit and use your vanish garrote to get max cps then vanish mut vanish mut
(to extend buffed garrote with pademic)
fight duration also long enough to get your second vanish garrote in time
somber egret
Yeah you’re supposed to just envenom in TB window. Don’t really need to vanish till end of vendetta and garrote close to 4 seconds🤷♂️
fast nacelle
but prob wont make a big difference since you compensate some of buffed garrote uptime with vendetta during mantle and envenoms during tb
pliant vortex
what legendaries did u guys choose?
lone junco
@sonic orbit it's probably a win in the 20-40s fights.
Or any time you won't have vanish
M+. Single without a vanish. Garrote garrote mut rupture. Seems good
sonic orbit
Yeah i figured it might be beneficial in some niche situations. Probably not a whole lot but it's easy enough to do
lucid bolt
anybody here use a scimitar pro? I'm having a lot of trouble with mine, my side buttons wer all working last night and now they arent... the keys are still mapped correctly in iCUE but they just arent being recognized in game
just bought the darn thing yesterday
signal stream
try pressing numlock
plain thistle
Thats probably not the right place to ask
orchid cove
lucid bolt
Numlock didn't do it
I wanted to ask in the other channel but I'm not allowed to post there still too new I think
I'm really liking the mouse though it makes the game much easier to play might have to switch to the Naga and pay 20$ more hopefully I'll like that one to
empty elbow
@vestal wren I think with sims showing a lower difference in dps just based on number squish people are going to be more lazy with stuff like double garrote and things that change dps by double digits, idk what to do about it but I’ve just noticed it so much more
vestal wren
you can probably reduce the sim time to show that its more impactfull
empty elbow
I play rogue and shadow and they both have these “small” differences but at the end of the day I think they compound producing and even lower ceiling of performance when first of all nobody performs to the level of sims perfectly therefore it’s already a disadvantage
And that disadvantage compounds when you misplay the wrong spec
jovial kite
id argue sin is harder now than it was last patch
vestal wren
huh what
jovial kite
now that pb is removed
its all about melee uptime and env / ep management
last patch it was all about pb
jovial kite
i said no to the pb part
empty elbow
Oh
jovial kite
now if you play good consistently, it shows more consistently in ur dps
empty elbow
I thought you were speaking from a mechanics of the class level not parse level
I completely agree
vestal wren
sin was even with only normal or bad pb procs doing good damage
jovial kite
yeah im not disagreeing
vestal wren
skill is now a bit more relevant
jovial kite
just that the mechanics that were supposed to be meaningful werent
vestal wren
but the spec is fairly simple
empty elbow
It’s toned down the ceiling of hey I got 4 pb procs on my kin garoth add this pull and I got 0 the next so now I won’t parse
But hasn’t brought up the skill floor
vestal wren
well even tho pb was such a issue literally no-one picked sub or outlaw to raid with
so in the end it was not that big of an issue
empty elbow
Outlaw was abandoned basically
jovial kite
im talkign strictly within the frame of reference of sin
empty elbow
Sub was more complicated with less payoff
empty elbow
Yeah it’s quite good
vestal wren
sure but more consistent
empty elbow
I think having poison bomb on the same tier as hidden blades and ct was a good move
jovial kite
i think having it tuned down was a good move
but yeah
now we have a talent tier of which all talents are good in different situations
so thats a plus
pastel pond
!pvp
empty elbow
So you basically pick one for st one for frequent small adds but mostly st and one for consistent long lived adds
Much better way to balance a tier of talents
lofty junco
MP+NS or EP+SF what is easier to handle?
lofty junco
had SIM it and MP+NS with shoulders and bracers are just 30 dps behind setup with EP+SF with shoulders and ravenholdt ring
cause of that i had ask what is easier to handle not what is better^^
jovial kite
well im not familiar with either currently because either are the go to so to speak
But ep isnt hard to keep up
given you have 4p and 20+ ish haste and decent crit
lofty junco
ah no wonder i have just 14% haste atm
strange python
Hi guys, can someone explain to me why Zephus's secret became bis legendaries ? I have the feeling I wont be able to proc if often against raid bosses.
prisma pond
Haste became much more valuable
fleet whale
I currently like how assassin plays right now I just wish blizz could add KB back in some way...
strange python
So just the 2% gain is making this legendaries bis ?
prisma pond
Garrote procs the leg a lot. It may not be as strong ok bosses but for general use it's pretty strong.
strange python
Oh i see, forgot about garrote making it proc :) Thx for the insight mate
prisma pond
Especially considering the fact people stacked mastery and may not have a lot of haste gear. The ring is a nice boost
minor sequoia
so what are people pairing with sephuz's
strange python
I paired it with insignia of ravenholdt
prisma pond
Shoulders, bracers, raven ring, depends on your character
crimson abyss
looks like double ring
prisma pond
Sim it
minor sequoia
ah ok im using mantle and revenholdt right now
zenith acorn
I like Sephuz/Mantle or sephuz/raven ring
minor sequoia
Just trying to figure out what im gonna use for my guilds heroic raid tonight
zenith acorn
i will say as a 250ilvl rogue currently that sephuz/raven ring your energy regen even as sin is honestly insane
jovial kite
soul is pretty much 0 value with optimal stat distribution
minor sequoia
I may try the sephuz's/raven ring tonight then
winter gale
Wich leggos to use during prepatch?
little current
sorry, but what is crucible ring as stated in the pinned notes
wispy apex
Is it worth clipping EP?
jovial kite
@wispy apex yes, especially during empowered garrotes and lust
@little current grand army
wispy apex
And outside of that window is just back to clipping envenom?
jovial kite
i mean if you have the stats, you can maximise ep uptime
supple girder
why is ravenholdt considered so good if we end up wanting to FoK +2 targets anyway?
jovial kite
@supple girder its good for st
fleet whale
just tried sephuz out now on some dummies... the proc makes my bleeds tick at 1.3 secs
with hero up, it would probably get pretty crazy
supple girder
i c @jovial kite
paper bough
currently trying to decide between warrior and rogue as my main. i do not have a rogue to test. my test consists of hitting the target dummy for 4 minutes at a time and then asking myself if i want to /slit wrists. Can anyone provide any valuable knowledge or insights ?
fury feels fine, but im still left wanting to slit wrists just to release some of the lactic acid from my fingers
im trying to gauge whether all this rogue hype in game and on the forums is due to how disgustingly overtuned they are atm, or from actual fun talent/gameplay decisions
jovial kite
tbh rogue gameplay in general is pretty simple
little current
@fleet whale how do you get sephuz to proc?
prisma coral
kick
unkempt gulch
do you have a spec in mind, because I find all 3 fun but not everyone does
jovial kite
and yes numbers are irrelevant outside of this patch as tuning is surely happen
unkempt gulch
yeah you'll like outlaw then if you are coming from fury warrior
paper bough
is outlaw literally just saber slash and pistol shot while managing bf and ks cds in dungeons?
jovial kite
pretty much
prisma coral
been playing Sin all expansion and honestly have had a blast with outlaw since the prepatch
maybe becuase it's something different
unkempt gulch
can't forget bout the bones
paper bough
yea thats cool too
and sin is just muti to generate cp, maintain rupture, spend extra on envenom which rarely happens cause energy is slow?
unkempt gulch
rupture / garrote and envenom 😛
paper bough
oh ok
so that sounds pretty cool actually
if you throw some poison bombs in there maybe too?
jovial kite
i mean its rng 😄
unkempt gulch
poison bomb happens automatically
jovial kite
but pb / hb / ct talent row offers good flexibility for sin
unkempt gulch
yes you do
urban storm
Sin going to be reasonable for leveling? I’ve almost always leveled using outlaw (combat) but I played sin the entire expansion.
unkempt gulch
i lvled in BFA as all 3 specs and they are about the same
which ever you enjoy more
paper bough
guys just throwing this out there because i find this discord more helpful than most others, but you all should give this a look if you havent already https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/913056/tips_and_tricks_for_leveling_in_bfa_and_a/
urban storm
I have every legendary so I can probably do whatever, will probably just stick with sin as that’s what I’m most familiar with
I second that reddit link, so much info
unkempt gulch
i was thinking assassin too
paper bough
lots of stuff in there that you might not have known even playing the beta
unkempt gulch
plus i believe you can use a dagger in off hand on outlaw, so you would only need 1 sword to play it
paper bough
who else finds the honor talent for combat to hand out crimson vials an extremely neat thing
urban storm
Cloak reasonable to use along with the talent? Basically 1shots everything
jovial kite
cloak + hb interaction was nerfed
but with ns cloak + hb its still viable for clearing
unkempt gulch
the crimson vial pvp talent is cool but you have to trade it to people
urban storm
Oh ok I hadn’t played since Tuesday
unkempt gulch
which can be annoying
strange python
drealords + HB is strange right now lol
it's additive
so it's not that good anymore (was multiplicative)
hmmm, it's still doing insane damage on trash packs
lean hill
Depends what you want to do with prepatch. Get used to the new rotations or meme it up with the weird skill interactions
World pvp sin I still use the cloak for the memes
strange python
yeah im just messing around...i have beta for real stuffs
lean hill
Did an m+ with a sin rogue using the cloak, we finished about the same overall by the end
icy iris
🤔 simming higher w/o insignia https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hGoETtFfok8u4ZM9qhfDWe
sour skiff
Can some one help me test this build? do you think is Viable?
the goal is to "oneshot"(sortoff) , Vendeta an then open with garrote to silence, muti to build and apply rapture, "Markfordeath " into "crimsom tempest", Exanguinate and vanish, the idea is to minimize retaliation and try to maximize "master assassins" crits while repositioning yourself after the vanish to finish the target.
i want to use it as a ganking/leveling build in warmode.
BUILD HERE:http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/c95c
icy iris
Is belt simming still bugged?
icy iris
Ye
jovial kite
but with 14 other dps in a group its not the same
jovial kite
it all depends on what content you run
icy iris
currently m+ like only
jovial kite
and with what type of players
icy iris
forgot to switch talents soz
ye
bracers still good right
yea
doenst really matter eh
we talkin m+
it will probably be better with shoulders then tbhg
ye
i like double ring
Btw, CT the way to go in m+`
?
honest compass
Raidbot sim isn’t very accurate, it tells me 3.3k but I’m clearly doing more than that
icy iris
it tells me 5.3k i deal alot more 😒
honest compass
icy iris
PepeHands
honest compass
It underestimates us
strange python
wtf is up with weak auras blocking blizz ui actions
honest compass
Raid fights are longer than 5 mins lmao
I don’t really trust sims anyway
Just did a couple because people recommended it to see where I should be
honest compass
Also apparently I’m ranked 8th for rogues on my realm 
icy iris
what realm u on? 😛
lean hill
I dont think most people try to sim for trash packs, hard to judge since your group factors in so much. I dont know how accurate it would be
honest compass
I’ve seen like 15 other rogues
honest compass
Trash pack sims wouldn’t be that good anyway
somber egret
Smart rogues aren’t playing so less parses for them to nerf. #underpreformonpurpose
honest compass
Because your dps on trash pulls doesn’t really matter much
lean hill
@icy iris unfortunately I'm not sure, I run outlaw for m+. Someone in here should be able to comment
I've seen sin using HB though
timber owl
simming sephuz, by default, assumes I have some uptime on its buff or 0% uptime?
jovial kite
0
random furnace
What is the Crucible ring?
jovial kite
insignia of the grand army
random furnace
Thanks
honest compass
2% damage just doesn’t sound like it’d be better
lul i havent updated simc since the 7.1.5 version
gilded arrow
is sin looking to be the weakest of the rogues specs atm?
honest compass
I haven't seen much of sub lately, but in my experience for single target it beats outlaw, by a bit
for aoe, its pretty hard to beat outlaw
but you can do it
ripe crow
how do you interpret the talent section on ravenholdt
3210021
sorry am stupid, what does that indicate?
vernal adder
yes