THE SIMC APL
#assassination
sharp nova
lost horizon
We're in a discord for a video game, you're already wasting time
shrewd pine
Fair.
gleaming geyser
You're an actual joke. One of my sims pre sephuz update on HD had that particular sequence. You posted the corrected APl with rupture, end of it
shrewd pine
Can't argue with that 
gleaming geyser
We both agree rupture is the best
shrewd pine
k
tight fossil
is poison > Bleed build right now ??
mental valley
tight fossil
ok, and how are sins looking like in beta right now? are they comparing to outlaw rogues and sub rogues?
strange python
that question gets asked a lot man.
sturdy python
heres was my question
garot>mut>rup is obvious
however the next combination is what im iffiy on
strange python
it's opinionated. but I had a good time with sin on the beta.
tight fossil
im talking pushing M+
somber egret
vendetta tb is waht im seeing next Tawney
gleaming geyser
It doesnt matter
tight fossil
like, is outlaw/sub going to eb like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sin?
gleaming geyser
You still fit that vendetta in
sturdy python
has anyone thought about using vendetta rigt before opener?
gleaming geyser
Energy waste
strange python
I would ask again after the expansion released and the tuning pass for heroic uldir is done.
somber egret
waste engery
steep obsidian
are you sure the apl doesnt vend on the pull? i know it used to
i dont even know how to check that though tbh but the sim def says vendetta is wasting energy
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
strange python
when would you use ven if you have mantle?
tight fossil
!guide
strange python
HTML report -> action priority list -> sample action sequence
but sometimes the sample does weird things because it knows when the fight will end.
steep obsidian
i wonder why its wasting energy on st i dont think ive ever had that as a thing when playing
strange python
it might vendetta on pull if it knows it will get one extra vendetta at the end of the fight or something.
yeah if you ven at the start you waste 60 energy
round vine
is master poisoner still better than blindside?
wind mulch
It isn't better then anything on row
strange python
elaborate is best currently
round vine
mp still better for me, just curious if blindside is supposed to be better with bfa gear. its a really irritating talent imo. i hope it goes away
wind mulch
Are you low haste?
round vine
yeah i still have high mastery gear
wind mulch
Ah
strange python
yeah then mp will be better for you
round vine
just think its stupid, its just a button swap that takes up a macro
gleaming geyser
Only thing that bothers me about it is the lack of synergy between* VR and Blindside
steep obsidian
would be nice if vr did something for cleave too :\
round vine
well it only works on single target now
wind mulch
24% and still simming just under agi
steep obsidian
just feels bad to have a talent that does nothing in certain sits
gleaming geyser
Im at 29% and my haste is 3.3 vs agi 3.0
wind mulch
Yeesh
gleaming geyser
And thats why self sim is so important right now :|
gleaming geyser
BFA* Kappa
steep obsidian
i mean im not doing jack shit other then a few keys tying to min max for an exra 20 dps is not important to me π
gleaming geyser
Oof that arcano
wind mulch
It is like, 20 dps under gors titan
snow hamlet
Wow! felmouth frenzy is good, it's up to 2~4% of damage
forest nacelle
so i read the icyveins talent choices, why blindside?
silk sundial
Blindside isn't good now but it will be better in bfa with low secondary stats
civic palm
Is the IV guide pointing you to talents @ 110 or 120?
wind mulch
It's also a bit more engaging
civic palm
Mmm, I do not think that Blindside is parsing better for anyone with raiding gear.
forest nacelle
civic palm
o _o
vestal wren
EP is better because tier and legos offer a far better uptime
blindside will be compatitive on 120
glass cloud
Poison damage is so sub par atm
vestal wren
EP wins in aoe
forest nacelle
idk ive been using MP for st aswell, and im pumping some numbers
civic palm
w/e that means.
forest nacelle
like 3k sustained at 214 ilvl
silk sundial
Do you have a high mastery? EP is only better with high haste and low mastery.
Right now the builds vary a lot on your stats and what leggo you're running
civic palm
All of this isn't to say that MP is bad, just that there are better options.
silk sundial
I'm at 36 crit, 15 haste and 65 mastery right now and mp sims 100 dps better
restive bluff
guys in aoe situations should we spam fon or just try to keep rapture and garrote on targets?
silk sundial
Both
urban shadow
gotta build CP somehow
silk sundial
You want 4-5 bleeds going at a time, fok is your combo point builder. If you have 4-5 ruptures up already then use envenom or CT if talented
chilly obsidian
Anyone got any good ass Weakauras or could direct me to a good spot to acquire them?
strange python
Yeah both if you have vendetta and vanish on use them and use garrote to as many targets (if you have subterfuge) besides that its basically keeping bleeds up and doing aoe DMG with FoK or Ct
cold patio
for the one from yesterday wich asked for WA for emp. Garrote via Subterfuge ... wrote one: https://pastebin.com/LvfG4sU4
red Blade = empowerd
will fade if target is nil or refresh without stealth status
chilly obsidian
Oo that's dope thanks π
zealous dew
or you can modify notter's one to put into your ui
if it's still there
tracks emp garr / rupture with ns/subt
copper blade
exists new wa for assasination rogues?
latent drum
guys should i use Blindside instead of muti below 30% or just on proc
silk sundial
Blindside in general is weaker than the other two options right now.
My understanding is you use it on proc in bfa though
fervent beacon
I', running EP with 34% crit and it feels pretty good tbh, I think my apm is even higher than outlaw
rip alacrity in sin tree
night prawn
who shouting cathrogaming?
copper blade
does exists new wa and when where i can found them?
latent drum
i dont feel MP is right now maybe EP π€
fervent beacon
EP is 100% 
lone junco
Bummed that VR isnt poison on bleed. FOK spam into Ct is nice. And tb sucks.
jaunty hamlet
isnt tb the way to go in pvp?
lone junco
@marble hemlock do you have a target count to reapply Ct vs env? Weaving for env buff Then fill FOK Ct spam.
civic palm
IIRC you're not spamming CT to begin with.
lone junco
There's a number. Hit component x targets > env during env buff. Would need to be a few more targets to say fuck env buff all together.
ESP if we are playing subterfuge so you don't wreck your Ns CT.
Would probably be trading out a few ruptures to do so
solemn trout
What legend is good at M+ ?
civic palm
Trading Ruptures isn't smart I wanna say.
lone junco
But I saw the glass eye basketball room pulled with like 25 targets. So there will be a case there.
civic palm
There's enough time to keep a few up on high health targets.
lone junco
It probably comes down to env buff FOK value from deay potion With 1ct. Vs. full FOK Ct.
terse pawn
lone junco
@solemn trout I use shoulder bracer still. The restealths are great.
Haste applications of DP are nice on top of 4p21.
ESP with the high crit values with 2p 21
silk sundial
Are you running mp or ep Noobe?
lone junco
Ep.
35c/25h/35m. Shoulder bracer. Ep. Vig. Tb. Pb
For single target raid.
5400 at 240.
high holly
with envenom do you delay n pool energy between 2 envenoms til the debuff runs out or does that not matter?
obtuse garnet
am i the only one who sims highest with shoulders bracers???
forest nacelle
@supple hearth seems legit 
silk sundial
Idk how to pvp lol
I Sim highest with shoulders and bracers as well with my current build
forest nacelle
16 kills times 3 death, divided by 1129k dmg = 
supple hearth
those deaths were because I was dumb and let myself get out numbered π¦
wind mulch
It's all fun and games till they team up on you
silk sundial
What pvp talents you using?
supple hearth
creeping venom, deadly brew, flying daggers
lone junco
Creep is surprisingly effective
supple hearth
creeping has always been good but it was on the same tier as flying daggers and system shock so was not used as often outside of arena scenarios
now that you can use all three
its good lol
silk sundial
Creeping venom is the one that poisons you if you keep moving and deadly brew reduces healing?
balmy cradle
which is sick since its dmg over 4 sec is pretty high for a passive dot
shy axle
do you priorize EP uptime like finishing with whatever cps you currently have to make sure it doesnt fall off or just do the normal 4/5 cps an take what you get out from it naturally?
balmy cradle
well a 4sec 1400dmg ish dot which comes passively is nothing to laugh at imo
silk sundial
The numbers are less in pvp iirc
marble hemlock
who highlighted me?
@lone junco how dare you
as far as CT vs env goes, i think i just CTed at 3+ mobs
and when theres only 1-2 mobs left, you dont envenom either, you just rupture so you get full energy back and can continue pulling immediately w/o starving yourself :p
marble hemlock
lemme grab the numbers from the DHT27 we did
to give you an idea
i tried a few differnet specs/setups
i felt happiest,at least on highkeys where trash actually lives long enough, with subterfuge, DS, TB, CT, and run talentring+sephuz
i also tried cloak+shoulders with NS and HB, but it felt worse
and that one was coen24, so trash died very quickly, cloak falls off hard if mobs live long enough
lone junco
Does vw proc off dp/ct
lone junco
Yeah. That is why we would clip env.
lone junco
3x garrote sounds good.
marble hemlock
and the VW regen from triple garrote keeps you going for a while
lone junco
Still vig/DS?
marble hemlock
yeah, was playing double ring
vocal crest
is there anyway turn off text that says ive snared the target
marble hemlock
bracers instead of vigor ring might be worth, but im not entirely sure on that
since all you do is spam CT, and most of the CT damage isnt tick damage, its the initial hit
lone junco
My rings are way too good to drop for minor changes.
Yeah. I like the hit.
Sephuz sounds good tho.
marble hemlock
you barely rupture on trash, and theres no reason to envenom either
CT just does more damage
lone junco
3t sounds like a good cut.
marble hemlock
and passive energy regen from vigor+triple garrote on pull+sephuz+t21 is enough so you really never need to rupture for sustain, only when the mobs are about to die π
lone junco
Cause we could 3x garrote. 3x rupture. And Ct.
Glad to be done with pb.
For cleave anyway.
marble hemlock
yeah, on smaller packs you just do double rupture and CT>envenom uptime
i kinda like DS for singletarget aswell, uptimes are easier to handle with the longer duration on rupture/CT
but i dont really have a comparison, i out-dpsed both the WL and monk consistently, but not sure if thats to be expected or whether i wouldve had an even bigger edge when going combat/sub
not enough time to playtest stuff yet
balmy cradle
say all 3 speccs did same dmg, which would be prefered for high m+ keys? never really got into them myself
marble hemlock
if they did the same damage overall? combat/sub would have the edge due to their burst potential, assa really only has sustained damage
depends a lot on how the meta shapes up, whether burst-aoe to quickly nuke packs is desirable like it was during tomb, or whether its fairly useless due to mobs simply having too much HP even for a triple burst-aoe comp, like during antorus
balmy cradle
thanks for the info π
gaunt yew
hey guys, does Crimson Tempest stack? If a mob has the CT dot already and you recast it, does the dmg stack or does the second one override the first one?
high holly
with envenom do you delay n pool energy between 2 envenoms til the debuff runs out or does that not matter?
modern schooner
is there a blindside/mutilate macro?
marble hemlock
first one override second one @gaunt yew
envenom pandemics, so you can refresh if during the last 30% of its duration @high holly
and what kind of macro are you talking about holobox?
gaunt yew
@marble hemlock even if the second apply will do less dmg than the original dot?
marble hemlock
most people just use a /cast mutilate /startattack macro
yes fengar, the duration will still pandemic, but the damage per tick is based on the number of CP used for the CT you cast last
gaunt yew
damn, ok ty
ornate quail
any leather chest which uncovers chest like dh-ish for rogues ?
marble hemlock
since CT deals ~40% of its damage with the initial hit already, you dont really care about overriding a 6cp one with a 5cp one, its still better for your dps to just spam CT
ask in transmog chan dragon
modern schooner
@marble hemlock I mean a macro that uses Blindside whenever its available instead of Mutilate
strange python
@modern schooner not possible iirc
modern schooner
Is Blindside much better than the other talents then?
strange python
last I heard it's really bad
marble hemlock
its the worst of the 3 talents in that tier
brave steeple
are ppl vendetta pre pull now for the garrote buff or saving it for vanish?
supple hearth
might be good at 120
marble hemlock
if you and/or your raidgrp is really desperate for execute damage, you could pick it up
but even then its not that huge a boost during execute
deals about the same damage as a mutilate, and generates less CP while costing less energy
modern schooner
@marble hemlock what are you personally using tier 1?
exotic glen
tier 1?
strange python
talents i assume
modern schooner
yeah
marble hemlock
i mean theres plenty of sims going around with the talents
2212121 is the current singletarget build unless something changes over the last 24hrs
unkempt flame
anyone have an updated link to some good sin WA tracking? i liked the ones infexious had on his channel a few months back, but they are not working currently
fast grotto
dull copper
Is anyone actually playing bleed build? Hoped it got more viable in bfa, it's pretty fun so far
lunar berry
2210221 is wrong. 1210221 gives better dps
main blaze
Depends on your mastery
lunar berry
hmm..prolly, but ive been stacking haste as much as possible..still gives higher dps with 1210221
chilly obsidian
Just sim ez
lunar berry
ive simmed it
chilly obsidian
lunar berry
gives higher
strange python
it's higher for you, but that doesn't mean it's higher for everyone
forest nacelle
^
lunar berry
can swap bracers for ring. but keep shoulders..gives the same dps..but 1210221 gives more
chilly obsidian
for you
lunar berry
sim your self..itll be higher
lunar berry
so u need to be at redonculous amounts of haste for 2210221 to be better
how do u even get 35% haste?? what trinket are u susing?
strange python
nah, around 20-25% and EP becomes manageable
strange python
35% is pretty high.
lunar berry
dont see how u are at 35% haste and sitll have 4 set with sting
main blaze
sephuz gives a bunch of haste
tranquil silo
U using sephuz/insignia?
main blaze
sephuz shoulders because I have a good haste ring
lunar berry
sephuz/insignia and 2210221 still sims lower than 1210221 with shoulders/bracers (or insigignia)
main blaze
and I have shitty non tier shoulders
tranquil silo
Yeah I had to item restore shoulders cuz I didnβt hold on to any
vernal adder
Who cares you will get some grey shoulders that are better than leggos anyway¨
lunar berry
its small..but 1210021 pulls ahead if u max gear
forest nacelle
im just saying i literally have a 3 whole DPS difference between both talents
vernal adder
fast lvling boi
forest nacelle
with my corrent gear.
main blaze
the fastest of lvling
forest nacelle
so who the hell cares!
main blaze
Spouting that something is definitive when all of this depends on the gear you have is the problem. Its all subjective. Best answer is to sim yourself with the talents and the gear.
forest nacelle
if i put 2 links from raidbots in the same message will they both be linked?
forest nacelle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d2v4zewz7hBzjKdRTjR6YK
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7iZFchEkCANQfycgfcJHYN
yup
lunar berry
so caressis who much get get if u sim 1210021 qith shoulders/insignia (or vbracers)
vernal adder
213 in 2018
vernal adder
chilly obsidian
Tfw arguments about 14 dps
forest nacelle
ikr
forest nacelle
ok π¦
main blaze
so shoulder/insignia 221 > 121 for me
forest nacelle
vernal adder
main blaze
shoulders/bracers https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3YpedX9fXvinrb7hHRYmJR
221 > 121
vernal adder
nice icc dps
main blaze
Im ready for lich king
lunar berry
try shoudler insignia
vernal adder
same
main blaze
I did that
lunar berry
ah
main blaze
Scroll up Jun
outer urchin
Hi guys does anyone have a weak aura for rupture/garrote (showing pandemic and empowered ones as well) mine seems to have stopped working
main blaze
Seems like Shoulders/sephuz > shoulders/insignia > shoulders/bracers for me because I have good bracers and so-so second ring and shitty off-tier shoulders and for all three of them 221 > 121
um deadly Im not sure if one has been floating around
vernal adder
wow I cant wait to lvling with lag as sin in month
chilly obsidian
Day 1 war mode on ez
dull copper
It's free xp baby
chilly obsidian
Free honor too
dull copper
true
vernal adder
39dks and 1 rogue
lunar berry
How ever i swap gear 121>221
main blaze
Then 121 is better for you and your gear
vernal adder
121 ilvl he means
main blaze
Ah 
lunar berry
`
obtuse garnet
im simming higher with mantle bracers but my inner feelcrafter says im doing more dps with ravenholdt ring hmm
main blaze
You could be simming higher with bracers because you have a really good second ring compared to ravenholdt
obtuse garnet
y i got pretty decent rings with high haste
im rn on vari and last time with ravenholdt i did way more hmm idk
maybe depends on killtime
tough lantern
How's Forgefiends's Fabricator for M+? i know it sims well but how is it in practice? is it worth it?
ocean nebula
nah its not, to much movement
tough lantern
what would be a better AoE trinket then?
ocean nebula
there is a list sec
tough lantern
alright
glossy hearth
is it worth it to keep up CT on 1 target
ocean nebula
lul
forgefiends is 3rd place in updated list xd
mb mate
choose the hectic add cleave π for aoe trinkets
i guess it got stronger after some other trinkets got fixed with todays hotfix
tough lantern
alright i'll test it out again then
ocean nebula
@glossy hearth i heard it isnt mate but not sure π
lunar berry
actaully, i tried simmming with sephys/shoulders too. (missed that comp) and that comp sims 221 higher for me too.
only one
live and learn i guess
outer urchin
does anyone have a working weak aura for rupture and garrote?
vernal adder
autumn bloom
just killed like
6 people in a row
in my opener
prepatch secondary stats are kinda
π
right now
lol
prisma pond
vapid moth
how fast have yall been able to make your poisons tick?
im currently at 1.7 sec with 19%
torpid linden
do we use vanish on envenom even with subt + mantle still? or...
the guide is saying yes but the dps is just not there for me x:
terse citrus
I love the sound of an envenom popping someone with poison explosion
vapid moth
that was a serious question htough. at what point would the poisons tick every 1.6 seconds
strange python
mine is 1.6 at 23%.
lone junco
@vapid moth during lust. I've seen garrote ticks at 1.2
autumn bloom
how can you tell?
strange python
mouse over the tooltip on the enemy
silk sundial
So with the haste changes, bleeds and poisons do the same amount of damage over the same time, but smaller more frequent ticks?
strange python
the duration of the dots are the same
autumn bloom
more ticks should be more damage
strange python
...I think
lone junco
Haste takes the same tick value and squeezes more ticks in during the same duration.
An un hasted rupture would be 15 ticks in 30s.
random sentinel
hello all sorry for my bad english π , i would like to know why Finisher with Rupture is better than Envenom
silk sundial
But it still does the same damage overall?
strange python
if the duration did get shorter, then it would be the same damage per execute
but it doesnt
vapid moth
i think that the confusion is coming from the fact that they list rupture and garrote damage as the damage over the full duration
the poison however lists the damage in terms of ticks
lone junco
With 1.5 second ticks. That is 20 ticks in 30 seconds instead of 15.
silk sundial
The way they worded it was confusing. It sounded like the ticks were just more frequent and the damage was split between them
lone junco
Exang worked a little different. It cut it to 1sec ticks. But ended earlier.
vapid moth
i wish they were uniform with the wording. They really should list it as damage per tick
lone junco
This keeps ye duration fixed. Fixed tick value. With faster tick rate.
fallen thistle
does anyone know what the crit soft cap is? sims are showing it's the best stat for me but i'm sitting at 41%
fiery nest
100%
lone junco
There will be points where it gets 25 ticks. Or 22 ticks. Or 21 ticks in the same 30 seconds. Based on lust or sephuz or trinkets.
Soft cap on crit exists at 100% DP crit. Because of 2p 21
And that's not gonna happen.
I could hit 100% mutilate crit with argus buffs.
But that's dead now.
oblique python
i cant post in quick question so i ll ask there π’ Are our bleeding snapshoting ?
fringe ginkgo
What kind of sephuz uptime do the sims use?
lone junco
Sephuz doesn't proc on patchwerk.
If you run casting patchwerk with sephuz it should proc on open
I'll be checking. Subterfuge sephuz when I get home.
fiery nest
just use raidbots
ripe geyser
Hmm oke
ancient sonnet
what talents/leggos for m+ bois?
civic palm
@supple hearth With Mantle + SUB you still Vanish ~> ENV
People seem split on VAN ~> ENV ~> GAR and VAN ~> ENV ~> Combo
strange python
remember with subterfuge you can garrote within 3 seconds
civic palm
Yeah that's what I have in the first sequence, and people did this in the past as well when SUB sim'd higher than NS for them.
strange python
if they take subterfuge and don't garrote after vanish then they are doing it wrong
civic palm
That is unless MUT > ENV combo is just, that much damage.
But I do not believe that to be the case.
amber trench
yah just have to make sure you go into vanish with 4cp/5cp/0cp
strange python
yeah but in that case you'd just take nighstalker
nimble tartan
u still garrote garrote is so much damage rn
amber trench
goal is garrote within 3sec of vanish and 2 env with mantle and subtf
nimble tartan
per application
zealous lily
shrouded suffocation in BFA is also pretty big in that it makes your fat garrotes also give 3 cp total
autumn bloom
Ooo
balmy cradle
so following the quick guide, i only use blindside on procc? not on below 30% instead of mut?
zealous lily
if you are blindsiding yeah
you will run out of energy fast if you spam it during execute.
on st at least
somber egret
Needing all this Haste is the stupidest change yet. Couldnβt they make it so mastery effects the number of ticks bleeds and poisons do in a time frame instead?! Lol
autumn bloom
Spamming it on a player is π
They made it so haste interacts with our stuff
Positive change imo
silk sundial
At least they made it so mastery increases bleed dmg
somber egret
Didnβt delete just never rolled haste gear lol
Haste ewww Iβll pass allll expansion
main blaze
Man m+ cache game me so many haste items
strange python
I think they neutered the mastery scaling a little too hard. But I guess some stat has to be last.
silk sundial
Bfa I'm going to hold on to every stat build I can find lol. That way I'm not I'm this no haste situation
somber egret
Stupid I have 31% haste and itβs still hugest stat on sim by a point
Just feels gross.
autumn bloom
A lot of haste hungry classes in legion don't crave it as much in bfa it seems
It's no longer #1 stat for shadow for example
Does seem a little strange that the lowest apm class in the game scales with it so hard now but meh
silk sundial
I've gotten some weird Sims depending on the situation.
Haste top and mastery last, mastery top and haste last, agility top and all others equal
somber egret
Are they trying to get rid of secondary stat choices and just make it main stat higher ilvl equip?
autumn bloom
Well I mean that's how it is at the start of every xpac
somber egret
I thought mastery was fine if they added bleeds being aeffwcred by it and just lowered the numerical mulitper for both.
lone junco
Hasted bleeds keep it on the table. Instead of running 2% like I did.
Keeps ilvl king.
somber egret
Is it on the table really for progression now with tb?
supple hearth
We're likely to see things tuned still
somber egret
Just seems likes it missing something to really being good. Like exang going back to 200% or higher I donβt know anymore
Yeah numbers aside. Just feels lacking to play bleed. Although Iβve only ever run CT with bleed. And using it on single target feels like a hassle with its short duration
meager anchor
anyone know of any good rogue pov streams?
lone junco
There is a really good m+ strum.
meager anchor
cool, ty
slow pier
hows assass tack up against sub and outlaw?
civic palm
delicate socket
Anyone used toe kneeβs promise yet? Is it bugged? Seems much to powerful for trash aoe
cold cape
Anyone got a working Poison Bomb tracker for pre patch?
lone junco
Don't track poison bomb. It doesn't matter.
It either does or doesn't And. Tank movement shouldnt wait for you. And it's not like we hold vanish or trinkets for a proc.
civic palm
Also Poison Bomb is 33% faster now than it was before, giving even less time to care about it.
fringe ginkgo
But I like watching the green skull pop up
civic palm
Eye of Command?
fringe ginkgo
yeah
supple mesa
oh wait i messed up lol
fringe ginkgo
supple mesa
i didnt click my self
civic palm
π
vapid moth
The reason haste is ranked higher than mastery is cause bleeds and poisons have energy returns. That should change as soon as we lose the tier set though
civic palm
Also because Mastery got its' scaling obliterated.
hollow rose
best pots to have right now?
civic palm
Old War IIRC.
vapid moth
Mastery was gonna get its scaling wrecked once we saw it affected bleeds
Tbh though I dont see it ever beating haste now that haste affects bleeds and poisons as well
vapid moth
Meh. That's no fun though
civic palm
Yeah but I thiiiink that's what is happening @ 120 > _>"
vapid moth
"Get this much haste or else you're useless "
civic palm
Thankfully it's not that much.
vapid moth
Give mastery increasing returns
civic palm
Crit is probably going to be king for a bit outside of AGI.
We've very low Crit @ 120, especially without shoulders.
vapid moth
They will definitely have azerite traits cover that though
vapid moth
Easier to increase crit and keep it even
civic palm
and there are a few rather clear winners out of the Dungeon Traits.
I'd love for them to give us some kind of WW like gameplay where we are constantly infusing Critical Strike Chance into our next damaging Finisher/Ability.
Most of the Traits atm are effectively passive, or work on improving our opener.
civic palm
That's fine, WW don't juggle that much outside of CDs either.
With the need for dramatic pooling due to that lack of crit we spend more time planning.
Much like in Legion.
vapid moth
But lack of crit also means we press mutilate more
strange python
Dang that crit on azerite armor would be nice
vapid moth
Yeah I like it
rough charm
best race for sin?
strange python
So from what I know only the neck piece and trinks will have secondary stats like crit, haste, mastery etc?
strange python
Am I right or wrong? :|
civic palm
Nah there are other pieces of armor still.
fringe ginkgo
I hadn't even considered changing potions. Derp.
strange python
Ohhh
vapid moth
I still wish we could get a 120 talent row
civic palm
Muh.
muted jacinth
miss kingsbane π¦
fiery robin
Do we have an in-game Ravenholdt community
strange python
Yeahh rofl
vapid moth
If we do I've probably been banned from it
strange python
Kingsbane was fun
rough charm
will troll be good in bfa as well? thinking about race changing atm
civic palm
strange python
I miss looking at my character and seeing 190% mastery LOL
rough charm
i have checked the pins :/
fiery robin
those are btag communities, not in-game communities
somber egret
Another patch and VR isnβt baseline smh
fringe ginkgo
We've come full circle. My first legendary was the shit version of Sephuz when it wasn't worth looking at. Now it's BiS. 
strange python
Yeahh if you join the btag community you'll be able to see it in-game just checked it out
trail root
I haven't found much about potions. hearing a split between Potion of Prolonged Power and Potion of the Old War?
civic palm
SIM the two options, Old War should be ahead by a little bit.
balmy cradle
which patch changed the mantle from 100% crit to 25%?
civic palm
None of them? Whatcha talking about?
trail root
the mantle changes in pvp
balmy cradle
oohh ic, so underbelly counts as pvp?
civic palm
Yessir.
balmy cradle
my heart just skipped a beat haha
prime stirrup
WA / ELVUI sample pick
civic palm
uhhuh
prime stirrup
WA / ELVUI sample pic
civic palm
hmmm
hollow rose
at what point does haste drop off at?
civic palm
27%+ depending on the rest of your gear.
and it doesn't drop, just is worse than another option.
hollow rose
crit?
civic palm
Probably.
hollow rose
isnt it Haste >crit>mast>vers now?
civic palm
IIRC haste > crit > agi > vers/mastery
Depends on gear.
Using Raidbots can figure that out for you.
weak isle
river pawn
mantle is nerfed ? thats sucks :S it give %25 crit now :S
ah thats at world pvp i think
green bison
Yep
civic palm
Any PVP templating, yes.
strange grail
so what has everyone been doing since prepatch?
civic palm
Remaking my damned WeakAuras and looking for a guild.
strange grail
yeah i guess that's all there is to do
that and test the spec. but sub got really shitty and assassin doesn't seem to have much to test....
orchid cove
how is sub shitty lol
civic palm
It's about as complex as WoD SIN atm.
orchid cove
i mean rogue isnt complicated 
civic palm
That doesn't mean that there isn't a least complex choice.
orchid cove
yeah but thats most likely what you're gonna play on prog so better get used to it kekek
civic palm
Depends.
dire spoke
having decent skills on any specific task always leads to the statement "it isn't complicated" 8| and still people need guides
civic palm
I will say that people don't always look at guides to learn, but make sure they are not making any terrible mistakes.
orchid cove
well a lot of people dont look at guides and dont know if they are doing anything wrong at all.
civic palm
Yeah but we don't talk about those people O _O
orchid cove
you answer them with a good old
civic palm
Point them to the answer, demand that they learn O _O
orchid cove
and then they answer; how do you sim and what are pins 
orchid cove
i know its just how little effort most people will do to learn h2p the game and want everything handed to them
dire spoke
no I rather get spoonfed
civic palm
Most of the time it's that they are just not used to this kinda thing.
The Discord Community, guides located within, the structure of the program even.
patent leaf
how do I get this cool color to be assassination?
civic palm
@gusty kestrel You ping this guy.
dire spoke
you need a world rank 1 log
civic palm
and ask NICELY.
patent leaf
please
orchid cove
@dire spoke he's r1 on garothi kek
civic palm
Well you have to wait for the nerd to showup first.
orchid cove
OOF
dire spoke
patent leaf
aight
orchid cove
how do you read ?
civic palm
π π π¦
patent leaf
i did read, but that poison bomb pic isnt viable anymore
oh Pog
oh sweet, i can join the secret rogue channel now
ty
daring cave
anyone know good races to run for pre patch n BFA? currently im running Blood Elf
orchid cove
Troll
patent leaf
dire spoke
patent leaf
im learning fast 
daring cave
so sephuz huh.
autumn bloom
any value to new venom rush?
autumn bloom
yeahhh
sad
why do paladins get like
two invuln windows and a huge shield
sighhhhh
subtle lodge
and a heal that heals 3/4 of their hp
civic palm
Why can we turn invisible forever?
autumn bloom
ah yeah the thing we can do once during combat
maybe that would be comparable if we could attack while untargetable like some who's
idk invulnerable
literally invulnerable
daring cave
Can i message someone regarding a question
void pecan
why not ask it here friend?
daring cave
ok
So im simming myself wit the different options of Leggos, SO for the Sephuz and insig setup how would u proc sephuz in raid is it when u vanish n garrote?
orchid cove
you just use sephuz, thats all
dire spoke
You can proc it on AHC, Eonar, PK or Aggr
it then outputs even more than you sim because patchwerk doesn't proc it at all
daring cave
ok. was just looking for that add. information
prime stirrup
its a passive buff, but does show up in charts and is worth it for PvE/raiding
dire spoke
what?
daring cave
just odd simming its lower DPS total, and i understand it doesnt show the proc
whats up with cindaria?
dire spoke
nothing, it`s overvalued
daring cave
ah ok
prime stirrup
it definitely is over valued but for bosses with adds its not bad
dire spoke
if you have an Env ready and are fast enough switching
prime stirrup
PK/Garothi/AHC/EONAR all good choices for it. even kin would get decent use from it
daring cave
ok yeah i was just curious about it procing
dire spoke
just tell everyone to FoK off from adds
prime stirrup
cheese logs is never a good thing
lemme get my rank 1 colors yall. ShΓ’nksy - Dalaran current rank 1 m+ and have a100% lfr parse LOL
ripe fjord
what are the best leggys fpr bfa prepatch ? :S
prime stirrup
it depends a lot on your setup, whats available to you, and the content you run
opaque tree
seems that for most people it's Shoulders / Sephuz or Insignia
but yeah it's different for everyone
some people are simming higher with both rings
prime stirrup
i sim highest with shoulders/cindaria
ripe fjord
ive used this opener with shoulder/boots ---------------Shadowstep, Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture, Vendetta, Toxic Blade, Vanish, Envenom, Mutilate, Envenom, Mutilate, Envenom
prime stirrup
but cindaria is bs so it is what it is
ripe fjord
but on ravenholdt noow it says
Garrote β Mutilate β Mutilate β Rupture β Vendetta β Toxic Blade -β¦- Vanish β Garrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote
prime stirrup
red, move vendetta to after toxic and put a mutilate in its place
if you are using shoulders you shouldnt need to vendetta that early, the dmg buff from double stealth isn't worth if you are energy capping
ripe fjord
so garrote avter vanish isnt that "good" with shoulders
its better with Envenom mutilate, envenom and so on
prime stirrup
if you run subterfuge you always want to garote in vanish
if nightstalker you can env/rupture for better numbers
strange python
the opener on ravenholdt does not assume shoulders
if it did you would be vanishing at 1 or 2 cp...
prime stirrup
i found with shoulders best open is Garrote - mutilate - rupture - mutilate - toxic - vendetta - vanish env
and then back into normal rotation
strange python
vendetta before tb
prime stirrup
i dont see a worthy dps gain for energy capping there
so im torn on when to use vendetta in combo
strange python
except you aren't energy capped
unless you are at 151+ energy?
you get 20 energy a second from vendetta for 3s
prime stirrup
but you can fight the toxic blade in while you still have shoulder buff on if you put it early
you can crit* the tb
strange python
the apl does vendetta first
ripe fjord
how about leggys ?
dire spoke
fallow estuary
Do you try to use all finisher as close to 0.1s as possible beeing specced into EP?
prime stirrup
its different for everyone and what content they run
ripe fjord
i know but prefered ist Insignia and sephus ?
oO
yeah ok i guess, so no shoulder and garrote
with sub
terfuge
vapid moth
EP is easy enough to keep at 100% uptime with high crit without focusing on doing so so I dont
prime stirrup
Im personally finding great success with shoulders/insig in high lvl m+s
but on raid i swap insig for cindaria
fallow estuary
Guess i need more crit then π€·
I'm at 41% and i'm not close to 100% without focusing on poolin and finishing close
vapid moth
I'm at 50% midfight usually
strange python
yes @fallow estuary
ripe fjord
@strange python so with 2210021 its better with insignia of raven + sephus ?
prime stirrup
at what point do you always have energy for mut?
ripe fjord
because of subterfuge
fallow estuary
You never "allways have energy"
strange python
that totally depends on your gear and there is no way I can give you a right answer
vapid moth
@ripe fjord sim it yourself
lavish sky
I've been playing assasination and sub I'm only level 32 but I feel like it's very clunky to play. Does it smooth out if I stick to it? I've never had max rogue
prime stirrup
im like 30%crit 19%haste and i have downtime
adrienne, undergeared and improperly geared rogue always feels clunky and slow
fallow estuary
You ALLWAYS will have downtimes Infant
prime stirrup
even with 4pc? just no way around it?
fallow estuary
doesn't matter what kind of gear you have - im at 41%crit/24% haste - and you still can't spam MUT
Yes
vapid moth
The more you mutilate the more downtime there is
lavish sky
So is that a yes or no?
fallow estuary
What would be the point of having a resource otherwhise?
lavish sky
Oh sorry didnt see you said my name
prime stirrup
just seeing whats currently possible
vapid moth
@lavish sky if you have heirlooms it shouldn't be too bad. Especially haste ones
shy kestrel
link a log
prime stirrup
I agree, and it would probably be a dps loss if you tried to maintain 100% ep uptime
shy kestrel
that doesnβt include <4 finishers
strange python
damn @dire spoke, I see that thicc varimathras log
shy kestrel
keep in mind, this is the same guy who doesnβt think The Office is funny
vapid moth
Its not funny. People have yet to tell me where the humor is
shy kestrel
you donβt explain humor, smh
prime stirrup
he probably didn't like seinfeld too
vivid hill
whats optimal spec for m+?
supple hearth
Proofs have been demanded. Proofs must be given.
civic palm
This proof might take some time.
Can't claim PBOMB bullshit anymore!! You either hit the mark or don't!!
civic palm
Why can't he react to my WA SPAM?!
fallow trellis
Hey guys my Weakaura arenβt working since pre patch. Does anyone have a simple WA for bleeds/poisons etc they can link me. Cheers
shy kestrel
I really like our guy Mystlerβs
glowies arenβt for everyone, but you can always edit
shy kestrel
ss?
civic palm
Must have not sacrificed enough kittens.
fallow trellis
@dire spoke ty
civic palm
Not showing up and it's annoying me, though your own might not show up on the search listings?
Need to search my name to get them to show up o _o wago please.
shy kestrel
vapid moth
the EP wasnt 100%. more like 74% on average :/
that includes the time i was logging but not hitting the dummy though
fleet whale
the sound ep makes is so annoying
vapid moth
agreed. i hate the animation too
fleet whale
it looks like a vanilla animation, and it doesn't fit rogues at all
tbh compared to the other two rogue specs assassin could use some love on animations
vapid moth
yup
fleet whale
like FoK looks cool, envenom and rupture are nice, and mut is ok too...
but the rest, not so good
vapid moth
tb is literally just a stab
fleet whale
they didn't even change the trail color to green
so it looks like a backstab that you use every 25 secs
karmic merlin
Am I crazy or was this recently hotfixed? Could have sworn it was 100% on Thursday...
shy kestrel
86%<100%
shy kestrel
linking after admitting you lied implies a change imo
fleet whale
@karmic merlin it's nerfed in warmode
karmic merlin
oh, that explains it. my bad
fleet whale
in dungeons/raids, or non-warmode it's still 100%
shy kestrel
but you lied about 100% being ez, without effort
then you said you were wrong, and then later you link something as if it changes your being wrong
vapid moth
the only thing that changed is that instead of giving you 74% i gave 86%.
shy kestrel
i still like mine zempai
light kestrel
I'm a degenerate who doesn't use weak auras. I just make mental timers
vapid moth
to be fair the timers are shown somewhere on my screen anyway
light kestrel
I also only use default ui, but now that it's gone and the new trainwreck that we have. I might for the first time look into a UI addon.
shy kestrel
just blame the tanks like the rest of us
shy kestrel
weakauras have revolutionized the game, like without a question
fleet whale
I still use default ui too, granted I play on a laptop... I know lul
light kestrel
I just always really liked it.
vapid moth
whats wrong with a laptop
fleet whale
nothing really, it's just ridiculed by some people
light kestrel
I play on a laptop too, I prefer it
vapid moth
i do as well
fleet whale
it's a decent laptop too
dire spoke
keybindings 
fleet whale
but I mainly play wow on a laptop cause college
vapid moth
i mean thats a given
fleet whale
plus I travel a bit in general
light kestrel
For whatever reason I've just liked it better. Like when I was playing dyinglight with friends it seemed much better on the laptop then the desktop
fleet whale
it would be expensive and bit clunky to transfer a whole pc to college, only to bring it back again when I would have to come home
vapid moth
Driving the car home when you hear shit moving in the trunk
dire spoke
yours not bad either Kistler, I like flat icons : >
civic palm
FLAT
shy kestrel
i think imma change the glows to some other animation
shy kestrel
oh bounce yeah, i fuck with that
vapid moth
ack. WA. hiss
shy kestrel
YOU DONT LIKE THE OFFICE OR WEAKAURAS????
dire spoke
why do you use keybinds
shy kestrel
why use keys
civic palm
Because I used to play with a Nostromo and bind everything.
stone fable
is the lego trinket off Argus really better than the other pantheon?
civic palm
Yeah has mucho mucho stats.
dire spoke
also my Q was a tackle towards xaeth 8|
placid elbow
soooo Haste is the priority stat?
civic palm
Until it isn't.
dire spoke
try raidbots.com and find out
civic palm
He's just... being himself.
civic palm
Just don't be like those weirdos still using Slice Commander O _O
chilly obsidian
Free carry if you start raid yourself?
rough agate
old war or prolonged in prepatch right now?
vapid moth
i dunno. but we wiped on HC. so imma call him out
not your business
vapid moth
he seemed to think the same
dire spoke
@rough agate you can simulate these options on raidbots.com https://snag.gy/YOKW69.jpg
dire spoke
^
vapid moth
well im currently low on gold so ill stick to prolonged power
shy kestrel
iβm not trying to start shit, but i donβt get how youβre in this discord but βnever felt the needβ to use wa
vapid moth
the regular UI already shows rupture and garrote timers and whatnot above the enemy nameplate
if i really wanna get specific everything else is shown in the top right
civic palm
Yeah if you have good Nameplates DoT tracking is taken care of.
dire spoke
I rather look at the center of my screen to see literally everything than crisscross around my monitor
shy kestrel
^
vapid moth
its a small monitor π€·
dire spoke
nintendo ds
shy kestrel
to each their own i guess but i donβt get it lol
vapid moth
the same way that we dont get zempais clicking
shy kestrel
but i think zempai knows itβs weird
chilly obsidian
Clicking in 2018 π€
ornate gazelle
I know it sims wacky, but the belt is really good. Has anyone else noticed it out-performing Insignia and other legendaries, pairing up with Sephuz?
dire spoke
wow 
shy kestrel
if it works it works, we arenβt all korean QQ
vapid moth
Belt shouldnt be trusted for sims
chilly obsidian
Yeah it works for now but I know you can strive to become the most optimal rogue you can be!
vapid moth
its always rated higher than it should be
shy kestrel
their is almost no use-case where belt is worth using, even if it is the highest dps
vapid moth
WA wont necessarily make me more optimal. what is there to track right now? EP?
shy kestrel
mechanic based pushing is rarely that % range
sharp nova
how can you live without wa? wa is love, wa is life
vapid moth
i wasnt there for SoT
shy kestrel
i mean we are just trying to help
chilly obsidian
I like having weak auras display who interrupted the target and other useful raid information
civic palm
SoT and AP were especially annoying as you could clip SoT late (before another attack) and get another point whatever seconds out of it.
ornate gazelle
Hey, if I'm finish fights where Cinidaria has higher percent damage than Insignia... I'm gonna continue running Cinidaria.
chilly obsidian
There are some really good wa for stuff besides cd and dot tracking
vapid moth
At the same time ive never been in many situations where people were just slaughtering me in dps
shy kestrel
weakauras no matter your perception, increase effectiveness if only from an awareness standpoint
civic palm
WA are basically just for small things, nothing is going to make or break things.
Other than WA for boss abilities.
shy kestrel
they give you more time to look at other things
civic palm
Having icons for stacks/etc. is objectively better than a window from BW/DBM.
vapid moth
my real issue with WA is getting it to look nice though
sharp nova
also, imo what's good about wa tracking is that you see the changes passively
dire spoke
Xaeth you get that there are serious encounters that are alot more comfy to play with raid-wide weakauras, even method uses them, do you? It's not just showing some uptimes of your toon 8|
civic palm
Yeah getting things not ugo can be important.
royal bronze
what WA's is everyone running?
civic palm
Mine.
dire spoke
Mine.
civic palm
I mean I am running mine.
royal bronze
link meee
vapid moth
NA
chilly obsidian
Lot of customs
civic palm
WAGO it O _O
dire spoke
lol
sharp nova
i took afenars, does it's job atm
civic palm
care/10 inc
royal bronze
been using afenars too