no, AoE you dont want to garrote at all
#assassination
plain thistle
civic palm
Underestimating Garrote O _O
vapid moth
garrote is tradh
plain thistle
bad damage, costs energy and 1 GCD
vapid moth
may as well take the other talent for Single target boss damage
steep obsidian
you can garotte all you want and then you complain that your overall and pb damage is a lot lower then me over the whole dungeon /shrug
fok + spam envenom during crit window
win cash and prizes
deep beacon
Only thing is I was asking for advice and got it ๐ I also don't play with you so not sure that would happen haha
steep obsidian
๐
yeah it happen to me last week dude was like wow you have good pb rng but i did a lot more finishers them him over the dungeon coz of that
so more finisher = more chance for a good pb
i hardly ever save vanish for boss just swap to boots/bracers it works for me ok
depends on comp obviously though
deep beacon
Definitely does good damage surprisingly as assassin can get some massive PB streaks
steep obsidian
i mean you still get wrecked in any by any half decent ww monk or dh in aoe but it can do ok
deep beacon
Yeah... just sometimes it's pretty crazy ๐ But usually on bosses will destroy most toons that are within 5 ilevels or even more sometimes
steep obsidian
people think it easier to make a haiku then take a ss of their toon going by the amount of entries in the betakey comp
๐ค
fiery nest
Right
civic palm
haha
prisma gull
Don't hate on their passion!!
alpine hedge
the mods are just testing the bounderies of what will ppl do for keys
steep obsidian
i dont think its too much to ask tbh prolly take like 3 mins for most people
tropic ocean
hey I got a quick question to the m+ pros - im playing 18~19 keys as sin rogue and with the new affixes what I really struggle with is decent aoe dmg - its very rng based. I tried countering this by using kil jaeden (very bad) and back legendary (dropping wrists) the back is kinda ok but seems lack-luster if the downtime between packs is low (kinda have the feeling that the 30% on low hp mobs is superior due to not being able to stack up the buff) - for rotation I just put 2-3 ruptures on targets that live long and then spam fan of knives+envenom - any other trick im missing to pump up some higher trash numbers? I just feel so shit when other people constantly put out 6-7mil+ on trash and I either do 3-4mil or 10mil depending on pbomb procs
shrewd night
You wont feel any different unless you do higher keys and/or have the trash HP affix. Trash dont live long enough on lower keys for your trash dps to matter.
solid nova
Thats just Sin aoe in a nutshell mate
tropic ocean
I was just wondering if there might be some trick I am missing, only playing for ~2months and since I saw some rogue are playing sin in 28keys - but yeah more monster hp makes sense to have higher aoe dps. with current affix sadly trash takes more time than bosses
shrewd night
Its basicly all in the rampup. Sin dps needs time to reach potential dps, and higher hp (ie keys or affixes) plays directly into that.
stone flare
Has there been any Beta Builds for SIN Rogue, if so please link!
stone flare
That's odd they just poked with new talents for sub, they still got nearly 2 months of testing ๐ฎ
Well RIP then
rough yarrow
anyone with beta, what spec did u lvled (easier/stronger) or it doesnt matter? ill copy my toon 977-982ilvl depending on spec
tropic ocean
only used assasination in beta
steep obsidian
you can do whatever you want with that ilvl i assume
i only levelled with the template characters which have like en equivalent gear and didn't struggle until like 118 but i dunno if they changed scaling since then
leeching posion worked ok for me as sin
cyan vine
Is PB still looking like the best option for AoE/keys, or is Tempest looking to have some use? Was excited about the possibility of more than one build for BFA
tropic ocean
tempest is nice for aoe , especially for targets that live for a longer period of time, in raw damage poison bomb outperforms it, especially if you're lucky with procs and/or mobs dont live as long, as a huge part of tempest damage is dot
cyan vine
That was what I was hoping for - seems PB will be the go to if the adds arenโt going to live a long time (ie low keys) and tempest for fortified? Does that raise the possibility of a haste mastery bleed build being the go to for m+ / heavy add fights? Or is my feelycraft all over the place there
tropic ocean
for dungeons with lot of aoe like lower kara i'd definetely go with tempest, except for tyrannical
as haste reduces the time between ticks I guess you will stack haste and for heavy aoe dungeons the build will probably be spam fan of knives to poison everything and tempest on 5 cp - as it hits everything around u + dots it
tribal crypt
What is Tempest?
solid nova
Crimson Tempest
viscid helm
Clearly
jovial kite
@cyan vine @tropic ocean just for claritys sake ct outperforms pb in all scenarios currently. Need to wait for launch to be certain, but current pb is bad
cyan vine
Iโd love tempest to outperform Pb in all situations - cuts out the feelsbad when the other rogues PB macro is going off and Iโm getting nothing
cyan vine
If only there was another poison ability they could replace it with....
solid nova
But yeah, Slackjack is right
No need for feelycraft views when there's data out there for it
cyan vine
Take it the general consensus is that if you enjoyed Mut in legion youโll enjoy BFA? Choosing a main is hard work
viscid helm
U can play BFA assa on live
Remove poison, remove kingsbane from bars and untalent VR
jovial kite
its clear warrior got the time and thought instead of rogue
solid nova
Dusting off my warrior
viscid helm
Im DK main
steep obsidian
๐ฆ
viscid helm
Fuck this crippled wheelchair class
short aurora
hey guys ๐ simple questions any addons recomanded for assasination?:)
shrewd pine
WAs
jovial kite
weak auras generally all you need
short aurora
nothing else?^^
jovial kite
i prefer simple combopoints for cp visuals though
shrewd pine
specificaly for assasination, no
jovial kite
dunno why, just stuck with me
shrewd pine
for general gameplay, there is plenty more
short aurora
ty ๐
peak sapphire
i found a bug, cloak + talent combo doesnt let me one shot everyone within 15 yards in pvp
shrewd pine
unluck
solid nova
Zzzz
jovial kite
git gudder
shrewd pine
sounds like you need more bleeds
shrewd pine
that
short aurora
again a question found something from Notter is this usable? and how to i import his "config" to my wA?^^
short aurora
ty<3
short aurora
ah btw i wonder which speec is doing the most dps with BiS items atm im actually playing assa but dont wanna be a burden for my raid :/
ornate gazelle
on the beta or live?
short aurora
live
ornate gazelle
with bis it's generally sin
but a highly geared snd outlaw rogue and sub rogue can compete as well
short aurora
ok ty ๐
ornate gazelle
sin has the benefit of retaining decent damage uptime while not on the boss, so if you're a mechanics bitch you're usually better off as sin
vast forum
95+ is where it's at
fallow estuary
Sub or Sin for Beta Nhc testing? ๐ค
prime void
fallow estuary
Anyone who played some sin on beta?
Wondering about the 100 talents for ST
they all seem to be trash
warm parcel
Point is for 100 row to be trash
Its the aoe row that should not matter for your st boss
fallow estuary
Thats right
But you know there should be a talent pulling ahead of others
even on ST ๐คท
warm parcel
Nop
There are allowed to be literally dead rows for st
But the row isnt that either
fallow estuary
I'm not here to argue with you about how it should be
i'm interested in the answer which of those exact 3 talents performs best on ST
if they all perform the same
i'll pick PB ofc
warm parcel
We dont know about numbers until we sim them after the balance patch
fallow estuary
Thats why i was searching for someone whos played a decent amount of Sin - Mayb he knows (even if its just feelycraft ๐คท which talent seems to be doing fine)
Just because the intent of blizzard is to let the row be a pure AOE row doesn't mean that they succeeded
i'll only have the beta downloaded in time for our Raid test
so i'm trying to gain information now ๐คท
warm parcel
Its all over pretuning ye. Pb seems to be the intentes one for st
strange python
On the bright side there's not a boss in uldir that is pure single target
vernal sinew
Hi guys, im new rogue (frost mage main) this is a right channel to ask info for rogue assa?
vernal sinew
Im sorry, im on Phone, where i found a guide in this discord?
solid nova
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE
I gotchu
vernal sinew
Ty so much @solid nova
vernal sinew
Ok guys, my question is simple, And, its about stat weight. In term of number, i Just need to know how many % on stat need to be optimal. Ty in advance.
glossy ocean
Hey guys, quick question. Do you guys use any other legendaries for m+ as assa? Other than shoulders and bracers
solid nova
Boots
glossy ocean
For bosses?
solid nova
Yeah
vernal sinew
@exotic glen But the mastery need to be higher than other stat right?
exotic glen
@vernal sinew that is the easy answer that will be correct most of the time
but having actual simmed stat weights will give you a more correct answer if x piece of gear is an upgrade
depending on ilvl, other stats etc
vernal adder
fallow estuary
dreadlords + hidden blades + nightstalker makes dungeons till level 115 hilarious
(+mantle)
calm cedar
Hi guys. Been thinking of transitioning from Sub to Sin and was wondering if there was anyone around that was familiar with both specs?
vernal sinew
Ty guys, But I cant Sim, dont have a set, so I cant benefit of bonus set and leg.
But ty any way for help me.
solid nova
If you've not already got the spec sorted for it the transition is for little reward mate
calm cedar
That's fair.
Makes sense. Question is irrelevant mostly. I forget about the mass changes being done shortly.
odd hazel
TBH at this rate, pick your favorite spec: hope for the best. or play all 3
calm cedar
I just noticed I was able to pump out a decent amount more damage as sin only havingt tried it for a few hours compared to sub where I focused on my rotiations and the timings between abilities.
solid nova
Sin is a lot easier to pick up and is much more forgiving in terms of rotation
calm cedar
So was wondering if they are just in a better spot, or if it just may be more attuned for my playstyle, but sounds like things are getting shuffled around a lot, so irrelevant
solid nova
Also has performed better than Sub throughout the current raid tier consistently
Less APM, Easier spec in general
PB RNG makes it possible to out perform sim dps
calm cedar
Sins damage seemed fuller and more consistent to me as well which makes sense it being easier to play
vestal wren
sin is fairly simple and provides great output hence its better to begin with
fleet whale
Also can cleave reasonably well
calm cedar
I felt a lot more dangerous in RBGs as wellto efcs and what not
Guess I more suck at sub than play well with sin from what I hear ๐
I usually get good, unbiased information from here, so I really appreciate the support this community provides.
Especially considering I can;t no life WoW and have little time to theorycraft for myself, so usually rely on somewhat outdated info online until I found this place.
vestal wren
sub has quite a learning courve it is very consistent and versatile if you master it but also tuned a bit to low
supple hearth
Sin lacks the utility sub does so while it is stronger to kill efcs when you get to a higher mmr you'll see in NA sub is meta for its utility
vestal wren
my guide should have all invormation about sub and is always up to date ๐
well unless pvp you might ask giggle there or in #pvp
calm cedar
I split my time 50/50. I don't know anyone else who plays IRL anymore, so I don't have an active raiding guild, really. So I focus on solo content, LFG/R and PvP. Probably 50/50 split between PvP and PvE
fallow estuary
I can't get Weakauras to work on Beta ๐
vernal adder
try harder
dire spoke
vernal adder
just ping all despots
exotic glen
ping all despots, shadowblades, TC'ers and then individually ping everyone else in the discord
how to workaround not being able to @everyone
strange python
dumb question inc
but i need an answer fast
which add do i go on in the argus fight
guessing physical or is there one of my poisons
drifting cloud
poison
drifting cloud
its nature I think
exotic glen
if you wanna go big dick, rupture the physical add then shadowstep nature one
should have enough time to do everything before their dmg increase comes in
jovial cedar
Hi guys, how is it looking for sin compared to other specs in bfa?
normal plover
guys dont be so sad
lone junco
@normal plover ๐
polar grail
Positivity is contagious big guy! ๐
jovial cedar
I was honestly, asking, I have been checking and it looked ok imo, was wondering if someone had some more infos
strange python
No, it's just that question gets asked a lot and there isn't enough time/tuning/information to even give a good answer
it's subjective at this point, but I'd be happy to give you my opinion of the spec
but that's all it can be right now, an opinion
deft locust
hey guys. As a possibly returning player to wow this coming xpac, how is my favorite class rogue looking? and more importantly how is sin looking. do we have info on changes yet?
jovial cedar
@strange python Thx fam, i'll take it happily
strange python
see what I mean ๐
jovial cedar
yeah right ๐
deft locust
Haha
I saw your post Right after I sent it
It's been a while for me, was curious to hear what all went down
strange python
You can look at the class changes themselves here, http://www.wowhead.com/class-changes-in-battle-for-azeroth
deft locust
oh that's exactly what I needed, thanks
also is there someone here who runs an updated rogue guide? I would love to read a players pov, i used to do it back in legion but it's been a very long time since then
maybe a year?
strange python
@jovial cedar I think sin is in an okay spot. No more kingsbane means the spec got even slower, some people don't like that. We need more work on our talents right now, personally I don't like having to choose between Venom Rush vs dps talents on the same row. Our energy regen is poor on the beta but that's probably the result of low haste/crit. The mastery and haste changes are cool and it'd be interesting to see how it plays out. Crimson Tempest is also pretty fun and powerful.
@deft locust there is a guide at the top of the discord here
Compared to other specs, well outlaw had slice and dice nerfed to death so I could care less about that spec, but I think sub is looking fine. 5 second shadow dances + enveloping shadows + shadow focus was really fun in my testing.
I like that mutilate costs less energy, I like blindside (make it baseline, blizzard, if you're reading, love you long time)
jovial cedar
yes so that comes close to I experienced
thanks a lot for your opinion ๐ appreciated
strange python
๐
jovial cedar
we still need to see how haste scales for our poison and bleeds
I guess this could actually change the spec a lot
strange python
I had ~70% haste at one point in the beta due to some random buff and I saw bleeds/poisons ticking at 1.2s
that was months ago, and 70% haste is certainly unrealistic, but it was cool to see
it won't be a dead stat anymore, and it will make bloodlust pretty good for us again
lone junco
on beta with my char copy i can get 40+ 25% from sephuz.
but that wont last long.
on live it was like 115% with alacrity
strange python
apparently if you put dauntless gear in void storage it scales to ~305 gear. So you could get crazy numbers with the 110 scaling
did it with a shaman and I had 52% crit ๐
tough lantern
hows exsang looking on beta?
lone junco
i played with it with the premade char, and was pretty shitty. but just dabbled with it with my char copy and wasnt horrible.
worthy carbon
what are the best talents on beta atm
lone junco
the gcd fucked me up the first few times
the vanish rupture exang didnt fire, and turned into vanish exang.
and holy shit i was pissed
tough lantern
rip
lone junco
anyway. when I did it right, it was like 11kdps over the first 45s
thats a lot higher then my leveled char was at 115, but im not sure how it will work out.
tough lantern
at 110 or 120?
lone junco
110 copy.
tough lantern
ah kk
lone junco
exang without vendetta sync will be pretty rotten.
lone junco
once crit weights fall off, i bet it will be really shitty.
tough lantern
i feel like that needs to be a talent or something
tough lantern
exsang relied so much on the boots
lone junco
but its all feely
tough lantern
BB?
lone junco
mut crit relic.
tough lantern
oh
tough lantern
damn
lone junco
i gave up on legion in feb/march or so
we farm killed a few times, then packed it up.
lone junco
I got 3x vend. and the relic game just ended.
lone junco
1 malch. 1 bb. 1 rupture. i think.
tough lantern
i got all the shit i needed on my rogue like first month antorus came out
lone junco
I dont even remember where it ended.
strange python
Why does my sample sequence do this?
Because env crit
No, I mean, shouldn't it use toxic blade before vanish?
lone junco
@strange python it just has to do with the actual timing of that vanish.
I would have held the vanish a few sec, esp if the fight is less than 2 mins from ending.
strange python
so it couldn't wait 1 more second ๐ค
lone junco
i dont thing apl would wait around the bracer window either
thats how you can out perform the apl.
if ttd < 2mins, delay a few sec, within the vendetta, and you can TB prior.
strange python
Anyone with beta, is haste good for us now?
lone junco
haste is better than it is on live, due to bleed tick rates.
I havent run any beta stat sims, so I dont know how much better.
strange python
so if it didn't wait one more second than it would have missed a vanish at the end?
lone junco
pretty sure the APL fires off the vanish during a vendetta when it can.
meaning, it doesnt play around TB, or KB or bracer,
strange python
yeah, I see it vanished 2 seconds before the end of sequence.
why? that is bizarre.
lone junco
well 5 min sims are 4 min to 6 mins.
that sample sequence is just one of the runs.
apl doesnt do a lot of nuance timing.
well it does, but you would read it in the conditions.
yay rogue things.
strange python
I hate having double murderous intent relics
a concordance during my opener means 8.5m envenom crits
but concordance never happens when I want it to
strange python
i would prefer shocklight
someone in my guild last week said "if you hit the boss first, you get a guaranteed concordance" ๐
chilly marsh
so rogues willl not have a class buff ? or they already have one in beta ?
viscid helm
no they wont have one
chilly marsh
RIP... i got the druid talk they really have a lot of utility but rogues not having any dont feel right
plain jacinth
I think I remember they said rogues would have a 5% physical damage debuff at some point. Are they getting rid of that?
viscid helm
yeh like 6 months ago
idle spire
Someone said the current Meta for sin in BFA was pinned somewhere am I missing it or did I get trolled? #feelsbadman
true ingot
Dunno why they gave it to Monk tbh
keen inlet
true ingot
๐คท
Give that fantasy to hunters and mages
Let us be the shank shank boiz
A man can dream.
idle spire
Thanks @subtle kiln I will check out the mage channel.
summer marsh
Does warlock slow from sacrolash ring and crippling poison slow stack?
keen spruce
probably just takes the slower of the two
I'm like 83% sure soft CC like that doesn't stack
the stronger one just takes priority
keen remnant
what is a good % to parse? doing mechs and no cheese
orchid cove
99
keen remnant
no trolling pls
lean hill
That's not trolling, why wouldn't you aim for 100? You could be ok with a 50 but who wants to live being happy with mediocrity
Shoot for the stars, at least if you miss you get a cool space trip
orchid cove
like my r2 on dogs yesterday, feelsbadman ๐ฆ
valid moss
for 99% you need sick rng
keen remnant
last time I checked 99s they got perfect mutilates
orchid cove
thats not true a 99 is doable if you're good with a big of rng, if you aim for top 10-25 world then yeah you do
lean hill
What difficulty?
orchid cove
what diff what ?
lean hill
What difficulty of raid is dvd asking about parsing on
valid moss
is this cloak talent + cloak leggy gonna be meta for prepatch or smthing D:
hitting for 60k
lean hill
I assumed mythic
valid moss
lol xD
lean hill
Since heroic is super cheese for top ranks on a lot
orchid cove
well mythic is cheese as well
keen remnant
mythic
lean hill
For some 11/11 guilds its cheese, most wow players still dont do mythic though
orchid cove
i wish i could parse on vari tho ๐ฆ feelsbad
lean hill
Mythic level a lot depends on your raid group
If you have shitters you wont hit the high ranks
valid moss
agree
orchid cove
i'm the person that does the tank job on vari lol
lean hill
I've got an 80 average, which includes a gross green parse on coven
I'm ok with 80 for mythic seeing as I'm not in a top guild
valid moss
coven makes me want to do that one jump off the window and end it all
orchid cove
idk we cheese on coven
keen remnant
maybe theres a bubble here because everyone seems hight skilled
lean hill
I was fucking around in outlaw the next kill I got on coven so no chance to fix the sin log
keen remnant
my guildies do 60 on avg
valid moss
I got lucky with 97% and not gonna try fixing that xd
orchid cove
on coven ?
valid moss
ye, i ruined opener but somehow got 97
lean hill
It's also easier to parse the earlier you kill bosses
orchid cove
yeah i wanted top 10 world but fuck that
lean hill
My guild is way behind this tier, so if I can get over 90 on mythic kills I am more than happy
Heroic, orange or bust
orchid cove
got 14th and prob wont beat that
valid moss
you don't choose to get top 10, top 10 is choosing you (poison bombero)
lean hill
Once you get to like 95 it's a lot of PB luck to go higher
valid moss
exacly
orchid cove
well i fucked up hard on a bunch of FoK
valid moss
aim for the 95s, its enough
my guild cannot even clear 11M in 1 day xdd
but yet im still trying to parse
orchid cove
me neither cause we cheese
keen remnant
very scary to think half of logs are below 50% ๐
lean hill
I'm never getting past 9/11 now
Granted a chunk are from people being dead (grey logs) but yea it's hard to wrap your head around
I dont consider myself top tier but aside from a late tier progression kill I wouldnt parse that badly lol
orchid cove
the thing is that most bosses that our guild cheese well i'm the little mechanic bitch
lean hill
That's rogues for you. I tunnel any time I can though lol
orchid cove
well no cause the other rogue never does them kek
valid moss
no weakaura update for 8.0? :s
civic palm
Beta branch might work.
keen remnant
rogue and dying don't mix
valid moss
no bartender4 either :/
haven't got BETA/Alpha, just playing 8.0 first time on PTR now
keen remnant
beta on ptr? noice
valid moss
yep, since today's QA :)
orchid cove
small difference between r1 and r2 kek https://gyazo.com/ebbcbaa2497f3399332f3d4a6ba250f6
keen remnant
QA too what
subtle lodge
Is assa any good in m+? I feel like i do so little damage in aoe unless i get constant poison bomb procs
spare cloud
The higher the key the better assa becomes
valid moss
any thoughts on Rogue bis race for BFA
keen remnant
@orchid cove that log is disgusting so many 100 lol
orchid cove
there was only 2 r1 but yeah it was our best pull
lime panther
are there specified BIS relics? for poison build
I can't find anything on them ( locations ) specifically
lime panther
Do they drop in specific locations? so I can farm for them in M+ / raid
all the MA upgrades have pure shit 2nd / 3rd traits and still using 945 relics super fkin annoying
drifting cloud
they all drop in antorus
lime panther
ok, ty
onyx falcon
k, i havent looked at the rogue discord in a few days... why arent we first in the discussion pins anymore for "spec discussions"
sins should always be first >:O
trail hound
You guys pop vendetta at pull on mythic Kin or hold for first bot?
quick ice
Bot
trail hound
cool ty
haughty lily
i feel like its so hard to parse well as a sin rogue compared to like hunters, is there a reason for that?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7CYaZn1gzh9r8fKM#fight=8&type=damage-done just an example, like my ilvl parse is fine but how do i get my perf% up?
exotic glen
play better
plain thistle
get better gear?
๐ค
exotic glen
also dogs is annoying, because top logs stack them for the most part
plain thistle
963 is pretty low
exotic glen
now if we were to look at your garothi log
haughty lily
im 965, guild is progressing slowly but i have bad luck lol
exotic glen
hot garbage man
haughty lily
๐ฆ i dont know what im doing wrong
plain thistle
I have like, 3-4 alts with more than 970 ilvl
haughty lily
i changed my opener to the right one after you guys yelled at me โค
plain thistle
and I only do heroic on most of them
haughty lily
you must have good luck
exotic glen
lets see if you improved then
haughty lily
i "think" i improved
plain thistle
๐
exotic glen
you used toxic blade and kingsbane together every time
keen spruce
Icyveins fucks up a lot of rogues
visual ginkgo
xd
haughty lily
i tried... x.x
keen spruce
Telling them to save toxic blades for kingsbane
You end up losing like 5-6 casts over an average boss fight
keen spruce
I noticed a pretty noticeable bump switching but it may have been other factors
plain thistle
and the second is better for new rogues because you dont need to pool or maintain uptime for both CD, because you will use together ๐
keen spruce
True 
exotic glen
you used vanish with only toxic blade up
you somehow managed 3 envenoms still, but do use vendetta there as well
keen spruce
Iโm horrible at pooling I just space out and play wack-a-mole with bleed timers
plain thistle
yes
haughty lily
i always forget to do that.. x.x
keen spruce
I use it in my first refresh of rupture during my opener
Then the second when vendetta is up
haughty lily
also for aoe, i just apply vendetta to evetyhing and spin. is that correct?
plain thistle
vanish to refresh rupture? ๐ค
haughty lily
rupture*
haughty lily
why not?
exotic glen
you will overcap
haughty lily
whats overcapping?
exotic glen
generating more energy than you can spend
keen spruce
Especially when the first mob dies
haughty lily
so what do i do with it all? just evenom everything?
keen spruce
With shoulders should you only use vanish on envenom?
exotic glen
yes
plain thistle
you want to rupture a couple targets (2-4) and spam FoK and envenom, to maintain envenom buff
keen spruce
I was under the impression that 5pt rupture is still preferable
plain thistle
for opener, with shoulder, you dont want to rupture at all
keen spruce
But I also didnโt look that hard for any information
plain thistle
because envenom does more burst damage
keen spruce
Oh just use that 5s for full envenom mode
haughty lily
envenom same target or multiple?
exotic glen
doesnt matter what you envenom
unless its like bolstering and you need to kill them at the same time
plain thistle
@keen spruce that was the number of targets, not combo point
keen spruce
?
haughty lily
thanks for the advice guys
plain thistle
"I was under the impression that 5pt rupture is still preferable"
haughty lily
im still gonna pop my opener and then spin and envenom the rest of the way
plain thistle
ohhh
plain thistle
yeah, got it wrong too
keen spruce
So a stock opener is garrote, mut to 5 cp vendetta kB tb envenom mut to envenom
Then vanish envenom after the first shoulder proc and repeat?
Getting rupture up after that falls of?
plain thistle
garrote > mut > rupture > TB > KB > vanish > envenom > mut > envenom ...... etc etc
keen spruce
Off*
plain thistle
use vendetta with the first rupture
keen spruce
Oh so you are getting rupture up in the opener still, just envenom with the vanish
Is there any noticeable bump from holding toxic blades until 8s left on KB?
plain thistle
yes, you dont want to start a fight without rupture on the target, huge energy and dps loss
no, both are close, like I said, TB with KB is easier
keen spruce
Yeah I must have misread something you said earlier
plain thistle
because you dont pool for both CD, you just pool for one
but TB on CD is more overall damage
keen spruce
Right in the opener Iโll sometimes hold it to get max value off of the kB ramp
plain thistle
I was talking about AoE, on AoE you dont want to rupture on shoulder window
keen spruce
But I donโt think itโs making any real difference through a fight
Ohh yeah I gotcha
strange python
this entire convo is in the guide
keen spruce
Iโm on my phone
I got it now, I was just makin. Some incorrect assumptions
Making*
keen spruce
Thx fam 
exotic glen
you guys boosting a lot?
plain thistle
boosting what? argus kill/mount?
exotic glen
just boosting whatever
keen spruce
Boost me Dad 
plain thistle
dont think so
we have some "not so good" players, but they are trials or raiders ๐
what I need is a better Portal keeper log, but I got a rank 35 and it was only 109 points, because of that KR dude who got almost 4M dps
plain thistle
its more than that
exotic glen
something's gotta be wrong lmao or i dont understand all stars
keen spruce
Yikers
exotic glen
its not based on parses right
keen spruce
Jesus
plain thistle
if you get a rank 2 with 3M dps and the rank1 is 7M dps, you will not get 118-119 points
it will be much lower because of that
exotic glen
that would explain it
since my only bad parse is argus
and no one really does huge dmg on argus
plain thistle
and its getting harder to get good ranks with 973 ilvl and without shoulders ๐ฆ
exotic glen
973 
strange python
I had rank 7 on garothi... Back when 1.8m was good ๐
exotic glen
need a better argus parse tho
hope my guild will let me parse next week
and just ignore modules etc
plain thistle
@exotic glen you can see that on my argus parse, its almost the same rank as the portal keep one (40~) and one is 116.7 points and the other is 109 ๐
exotic glen
@strange python i remember getting a r1 imonar with like 1.97
that is now rank 40
ah ye i see jhonwei
strange python
good times ๐
exotic glen
dont think anyone is beating my aggramar anytime soon tho LOL
plain thistle
I dont play rogue on aggramar , so i dont care ๐คท
exotic glen
LOL
you better believe i fucking padded my heart out
we do a /roll for who gets to just aoe adds
exotic glen
@plain thistle see our 0% execution?
plain thistle
hahahaha
exotic glen
raid called on me to switch to the boss because we were gonna wipe to explosions
i dotted the boss then ran back to the adds lmao
plain thistle
nice job
exotic glen
everyone died except BDK then his purgatory saved him long enough for dots to kill boss
plain thistle
yeah, we got a kill like that too, except more ppl survived
but we do aggramar the pussy way
with 4 tanks and 5 healers
exotic glen
๐
plain thistle
because both our main tanks dont have a blood dk alt, and we like to have 2
supple hearth
well yeah if youve got really good healers they can probably solo a lot of fights on farm
keen spruce
I just lead heroic pugs and drag the potato heads kicking and screaming to the pantheon
exotic glen
solohealing
probably impossible to do tbh
i dont even know who and what class etc would be able to do that
supple hearth
i mean idk if anyone WANTS to do that but they probably could
in a group that avoids the avoidable damage
and only takes what they have to
steep obsidian
im pretty sure it would have already been done on some bosses
amber trench
it definitely would have already been done based on what some of the koreans are already doing to pad parses
steep obsidian
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BTwbNqgRJy126WCQ#fight=20&type=healing there ya go that might as well be solo healed
i didnt look very hard though
3.5 m hps lol
amber trench
vari is prob the only fight you could get away with that i think
amber trench
i need a better portal keeper parse too, only ever got two pulls where i wasn't portal boy and now we don't kill it anymore
plain thistle
yeah, good luck
good rank is possible, but good points is really hard
r1 is 4.6M, and r3>>>> is less than 3M ๐
amber trench
yeah, at this point i'm pretty sure i'm not getting any higher on the list than i am right now
we can barely bring ourselves to clear 8/11 on any given week right now
plain thistle
me too, since im not try harding enough for that
amber trench
def not going to be going out of our way to cheese things and wipe
plain thistle
we raid 3-4h a week now, garothi > aggramar > argus and after that, the rest
amber trench
yah we kill everything but ahc/pk/eonar
at least two of those don't give allstar points
steep obsidian
why would you skip them though?
plain thistle
but sometimes argus is a bitch, and sometimes we take too long each pull/boss changing ppl ๐
steep obsidian
it like 45 mins to kill them?
amber trench
because we would like to gaurantee a one night a raid week at this point
steep obsidian
but the titanforgesssss
amber trench
and not ever go back twice
potent lintel
Im trying out beta right now. Any suggestions on best combo talent build for single target?
strange grail
question... with exsanguinate, are you supposed to refresh the rupture debuff for pandemic or do you let it finish first?
also, with my opener, i dont seem to have garrote off cd before exsanguinate
quick ice
let it finish
strange grail
I'm using the icy veins rotation
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
strange grail
excellent, thank you
interesting
so even o n that rotation, you're using vendetta well before garrote is ready
lone junco
vendetta and garrote have nothing to do with each other.
@strange grail
garrote isnt a huge portion of your overall damage anyway.
here's the open.
strange grail
wow really interesting thank you
surprised that opening doesn't have envenom before kingsbane
so many places said always do tha
lone junco
its not a poison build.
this is the poison shoulder open
kb only buffs on poison applications. Having Env up when you hit kb is not an application.
the mut after env is.
or autos.
strange grail
fascinating. i see
I don't have shoulders anyway so I'm trying out bleed
just getting a feel for other specs... I've only ever played sub
lone junco
if you have boots and 3 vendetta relics, bleed shines.
if you dont have boots or vendetta relics, you can still play poison. there are a lot of variants.
high crit EP builds are my fav tbh.
high being like 45-55 crit
strange grail
i just went with bleeds because exsanguinate had a longer cooldown so it seemed like less management
strange grail
do you let rupture fall off while holding cp waiting for exsanguinate
like if its only a few se
strange grail
even if it's only halfway through?
lone junco
pretty sure a full rupture +pandemic overlap gets you 32 sec of vanish rupture exang.
strange grail
so i guess ideally id use a lower cp rupture in anticipation for exsanguinate cd
strange grail
where did you make that timeline anyway? that's great
lone junco
warcraft logs
strange grail
ill have to check it out
lone junco
strange grail
thanks for the guidance
steep obsidian
i missed you noobe
lone junco
โค
my web blocker at work is keeping me busy
ok. since im lolling. this High sub parse is fun.
strange python
I've had a few pulls with envenom as ~75% crit
strange python
Yeah it was one of those "how did I do 2.4m with 3% pb" moments.
spare flame
Hey I just read that rogues can use evasion to dodge scythes Argus P3. Any truth to this?
quick ice
Seems to work, but remember you can't dodge from behind
steep obsidian
evasion works on just about every physical hit that is why the step dodge trait is op
foggy lotus
have a question about the assasin rogue .. i know the rotation and keeping the bloeeds/poisons on (im the poison build) but can poison bombs proc while one is already proced and dpsing . or should i wait till it goes away to use the next finishing moves at max points?
and should i keep the virulent poison, envenom, and surge of toxins up constantly so they are always up but use finishers at 1-3 points instead of 4-5? to keep those up or just have them up when they happen with regular rotation?
warm parcel
Yes
No
No
Yes
steep obsidian
you can sim your gear and find out
2p t20 is worth runnning with boots/bracers/ring along with 4p 21 in some gear and talent sets
tranquil birch
any info yet on what the prepatch meta is going to be?
fiery nest
Rerolling
viscid helm
jovial kite
would be a nice meme if all the regulars rerolled 
civic palm
HazMage
quick ice
At least we aren't enh?
stark heart
right. Enh is confirmed by Ion to still have some changes prior to 8.0 but we won't get any
strange python
kingsbane is gone
civic palm
Sure is.
strange python
all active talants seems to be bad
civic palm
Sure isn't the case.
strange python
its a shame, the execute talents is so nice to playm but poisoner seems to be better
civic palm
Might be.
shrewd pine
got data to back it up?
strange python
env and poisons will remain as maindmg. so buff them seems better. also in logs, nearly no assa use the execute talent
shrewd pine
I say wait for actual tuning to be done and wait for sims
civic palm
ENV is gonna need some fat fucking weapon to get that DMG back up there.
warm parcel
A mp never buffed env
B bs is best on st
shrewd pine
weapon? damage doesnt scale with weapon damage anymore
civic palm
Right weapon damage is USELESS, and there are no stats on weapons!!
shrewd pine
well, stats yea
but it doesnt seem like weapons on beta have insane stat budget so far from what I've seen
civic palm
They don't seem higher than normal, no.
shrewd pine
but I guess since white damage will be relevant again
you'll still want weapons not only for stat sticks
civic palm
didn't know ctrl+t was a discord shortcut, heh
Has the damage formula changed since BfA Alpha launch?
stark heart
Right weapon damage is USELESS, and there are no stats on weapons!!
Not for all attacks
civic palm
Course not.
Was sarcasm.
and some if not all spells still take into account some of the damage generated from your weapon.
Whether weapon damage, speed, or DPS.
stark heart
All
civic palm
I assume all.
stark heart
Ap has wdps in it
stark heart
Sometimes oh wdps as well
stark heart
That's outdated formula
civic palm
What was it changed to?
stark heart
Multiplier for wdps is 6
civic palm
๐
civic palm
mmm
weird but sure.
If MUT is considered a MH and an OH attack, I assume the variables follow suit.
stark heart
Weapon dps becomes 2/3 * ( MH weapon dps + OH weapons dps/2 )
civic palm
.66 or .6?
stark heart
For ps and bte
shrewd pine
this is new to me, so which spells are retaining weapon damage scaling? Because from tooltips on datamined content I've seen
I havent noticed any weapon damage scaling
civic palm
All.
stark heart
.66 or .6?
Wat?
warm parcel
They normalized wdps vs ap when it comes to spells
To combat the phenomenon of rogue vs warrior scaling
stark heart
I said multiplier to weapon dps is 6
civic palm
this creates the AP that is then used on the tooltips.
shrewd pine
ah so weapon damage is used in AP calculations
stark heart
Wdps
shrewd pine
oooh
stark heart
White tooltip value on weapon
civic palm
Sure
shrewd pine
did I got it now?
shrewd pine
cuz in legion tooltips I specificaly saw "*weapon damage" scaling
which now is purely gone
shrewd night
shrewd pine
just tryna makes sense of this so I understand it :p
stark heart
@civic palm okay so formula for AP is this AP = ( Agility + MH_wdps * 6 )
Now if for some reason ability uses values from both hands it goes like this AP = ( Agility + 2/3 * ( MH_wpds + OH_wdps/2 ) * 6
civic palm
Is that wDMG is a component of wDPS.
stark heart
I hope that clarifies things
civic palm
Yeah I just got the AP formula mixed up with the AP mod for both hands. All good.
Thanks ๐ ๐
shrewd pine
just out of curiosity, where can I find the formulas?
civic palm
Blizzard doesn't release them on an official channel AFAIK.
Most of the times they are derived.
shrewd pine
Yea thought there was some kind of "wiki" or place where they are listed.
shrewd pine
Aight, thanks lads.
civic palm
I got the formula I posted from a wowhead article when it was announced that the variables were changing.
for reference^
I am sure that the formula will end up on a wiki somewhere sooner or later.
ornate gazelle
Has anyone looked into azerite powers for sin in-depth on the beta? Any word on things adding complexity to sin again? It seems bare bones and like 3 buttons unlike the super complex 5 buttons on live (;
vestal wren
assassintion the top apm spec with ~39 on live
wintry monolith
im having a bit of confusion when im using kingslayers. am i suppose to use it before i apply all my poisons or after? eg garrote rupture toxic envenom... then kingslayers? kinda newbie bare with me haha
viscid helm
Read the guide
steep obsidian
!singuide
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
wintry monolith
cheers!
echo estuary
@solid nova apparently complexity derives from time sunk into the said activity =/ just ask toph
shrewd night
๐ฅ
cinder perch
what should i take ? I Have legy boots and shoulders and the legendary insigne
wheat hinge
why do they call the last 8 seconds of garote pandemic
viscid helm
Is this going to be something stupid?
shrewd night
@cinder perch sim it
@wheat hinge The last five seconds of garrote is pandemic, pandemic is explained in the guide I believe
Boom
Done
ornate gazelle
@solid nova Weird, I average just under 60 APM for sin
lone junco
@jovial kite were you bad boy?
solid nova
On what planet is sin 60 apm lmfao
@ornate gazelle Depending on talents its as low as 30apm without MFD currently
Not sure what crack you're smoking
calm grail
Clearly you are not spamming PK
steep obsidian
how are you tracking your apm
warm parcel
You see from simc report
ornate gazelle
What's the difference between APM and CPM?
actions/casts, but like what's the difference
i'm going off warcraflogs' CPM
lone junco
Some procs count as casts
you dont press PB.
but it casts.
I just made that up.
but sin is very slow. 30 is probably realistic.
lone junco
you press mut one, you get 2 casts
ornate gazelle
ohhh offhand proc
stark heart
MfD is off gcd, racials and trinkets as well ๐
stark heart
you cast them so they should
lean hill
So that DK, the list of everyone they are on top with 566 casts. But when you isolate it to only the DK it gives a total of 323
Ok, overall total has an extra 243 remorseless winter casts
Weird, why show it for overall if you dont count it individually
The warrior has something like that too, but the hunter and rogue are both same # in the full list vs individual
winged juniper
Hi I'm new to rogue and Ive got just one question after all. Why do people eagerly want to know their poison bomb proc so bad? Does that proc make your rotation change? I know it does tons of aoe dmg and even st does good. But I don't see any reason to know poison bomb proc
clever niche
@winged juniper poisonbomb is a massive spike in damage and due to the huge scaling with mastery it hits like a truck. for the pvp talents go on #pvp
exotic glen
its also because in m+ particularily, on huge packs and you get poison bomb, you want to vanish to proc shoulders
for big damuge
winged juniper
Oh I see
exotic glen
but no, in any raid scenario, it literally doesnt matter
whether you track it or not
winged juniper
If I don't have shoulders then I'm fine with it right?
winged juniper
Seems like I have to set weak auras up before I get shoulder ๐
exotic glen
maybe, maybe not
clever niche
use notters all in one
exotic glen
prepatch SHOULD be like 3 weeks away right?
clever niche
i think it includes pb procs on there
winged juniper
Ok thanks a lot I will take a look into it
exotic glen
np
clever niche
it looks about right, i've been having a little bit of a test this afternoon playing sin and i'm fairly pleased with how it looks myself
kept legendaries on and then switched them out
heavy plover
Yo i need some advice for people who resell shit am I allowed to ask here, or shall i go to off-topic?
clever niche
venom rush with the haste change makes it pretty damn fast, didn't have enough gear to viably test with out t21
@heavy plover #off-topic seems to be the appropriate place, unless it's specific to assassination
heavy plover
Sure
clever niche
dispatch coming back is fun, i'd like it baseline again though but it's a nice gap filler for sure, garrote on a short cd will make our cleave fairly strong
anything specific you'd like me to have a look at @subtle kiln ?
echo cargo
It is intended that you aren't able to swap gear while inside Mythic+ dungeons.
Ok Blizzardo
exotic glen
it is
clever niche
ah cool, i do dislike the lack of kingsbane though and vendetta being on the gcd means it's way more impactful on when you hit the button but other than that i like where the spec is especially how mastery now works with the bleeds
cosmic wren
Are there any BFA sims from any of the recent builds?
vestal wren
mystler did run some, however apl is wip so i am not sure how well optimized those are
tl;dr: you want to use 
exotic glen
poggers
vestal wren
no the sim list above is for sin
lone junco
1210021 works for sub too tho
If we are talking 0 adds, flat foot, TBPB makes sence
I love m4d CT tho
vestal wren
this is sin vs sub
vestal wren
as you see sub has more then alacrity in the 90 tier
vestal wren
but we will see soonโข if it actually works
sub apl works well with all talents also, i cant say how well sin does
you need to ask lorentz/weak
lone junco
prob cause sin profile requires crit to use any of the EP line
vestal wren
also keep in mind this sims are probably slightly outdated. e.g. they dont have my apl changes for non energy talent specs, slight improvement to symbols and the changes to damage of shadow blades (nerf) in
lorentz/weak did update the apl for bfa but if i remember right they did not explore all talents (for sin)
lone junco
ive been playing EP mark CT in 5man stuff. and there will be a threshold to recast ct.
prob 4 or 5t
plain thistle
for the initial damage you mean Noobe?
lone junco
yeah. when 5x ct hit, exceed the 1 env + dp chance on fok
vestal wren
mystler did the majority of sub apl (removing all unneded things from legion apl and refactored the apl a bit).
the only win i found was for non energy talents and a slight improvement for symbols use
lone junco
env is not that weak. and the double mut appliction will play into it.
lone junco
but should be fun to carry in 5. NS Ct Mark CT (small) Mark CT boss
plain thistle
CT with a lot of target and T21 4p , amazing
lone junco
yeah.
i did a full exang opener and was seeing 11k -17k dps runs.
not sure what others are getting with the copy char
110 on dummy
plain thistle
pantheon trinket is broken, I was carrying super hard
doing like 60-70% of the entire dungeon damage
vestal wren
iirc trinkets are broken
lone junco
but my wife aggrod, so I only got like 5mins in
vestal wren
so if you have proc trinkets you are a mighty man
lone junco
I was using haste trinkets
65% haste with sephuz kick. *(but i couldnt proc off dummy)
subtle lodge
how the fudge do you play assa in M+
lone junco
with shoulders?
subtle lodge
Literally if my poison bomb doesnt proc im screwed
lone junco
have 1 or 2 rupture then fok for env
subtle lodge
with nothing but free ring legend lul
lone junco
sin is fine in longer trash, if you can 4x rupture alls well.
subtle lodge
then why do people use sin for high myths
vestal wren
it has great survival
lone junco
when trash lives 40sec. sin is very very strong cleave
vestal wren
and is more consistent if stuffs actually survivies more then 2 globals
lone junco
yeah. sub was god for the 12sec trash packs.
subtle lodge
mmm so higher keys = better deeps
lone junco
monks require external defensives.
vestal wren
even with prydaz?
lone junco
so says seliathan re 26+
I play the 15-18 range. so i dunno
nice
fuck huv
we never make it past Helya on tyr 18.
healer screams, then we all die
sure
its been since March
vagrant cliff
Does using essence for a Leggo reset the protection from them dropping?
lone junco
it is independant