Next April Fools we need to just make this Discord Mage themed.
#assassination
civic palm
vestal wren
i think rogue on beta gameplay is not actually that engaging
frigid vigil
Howโs the spec looking on bfa beta? Wanting to change from frost dk
civic palm
O _O
vestal wren
sin is very simple (yes)
outlaw is okay but rtb is a pita
sub is unfinished
vestal wren
pain in the ass
frigid vigil
What is the spec looking like on sin?
exotic glen
pita bread mmmmm
frigid vigil
For beta
vestal wren
sin plays decent
frigid vigil
For sin on beta I mean
civic palm
Fine, needs some numbers.
vestal wren
but its simple
well you can say that for live too i guess but bfa just is even more simplified
civic palm
Well.
We lose NRG regen so removing the abilities hasn't made holes in your normal actions.
frigid vigil
I donโt mind live spec just I havenโt looked at beta spec
Whatโs the build or is it still pretty much for debate since no number tuning
strange python
it's slower, needs some talent adjustments
civic palm
The "build" depends entirely on the encounter.
frigid vigil
Oh so toxic blade instead of the PB talent?
strange python
๐ค
civic palm
randomization influencing DPS to a large degree, removed^
strange python
toxic blade is not on the same row
vestal wren
and tbh other tc's voiced their concern about pooling beeing not required/good in legion so blizz is actually might just hear on that feedback
frigid vigil
My bad
vestal wren
i personally think pooling is borring
civic palm
Yeah there wasn't a large enough difference with pooling and without.
vestal wren
short pooling phases are fine but longer pooling with ressource starving is not fun (but fun is objective)
civic palm
Yep.
strange python
@frigid vigil in general, the first row is all viable, master assassin sucks, venom rush is a must, poison bomb sucks
civic palm
TBF I can't imagine anyone just standing there and waiting thinks it's fun.
vestal wren
again the majority of tc ppl i talked to voiced their concerns about pooling
civic palm
VR is not a must as far as I know O _O
vestal wren
so blizz is going a direction to please ppl who have this opinion
strange python
the spec is so energy starved i cant even imagine not using venom rush
frigid vigil
@strange python what about the 100 row
vestal wren
legion concern was mainly that you have to much ressources and lose pooling at all or for the major part
exotic glen
i remember a guy asking why he was energy starved all the time
played MFD and without t21
civic palm
R UR PSNS ON?!
exotic glen
hahaha
vestal wren
mfd is actually rly good
strange python
crimson tempest for aoe, hidden blades single target, poison bomb if you are feeling lucky
exotic glen
like 15 seconds after fight start
civic palm
PBomb never, even if you are feeling lucky as far as I have seen.
exotic glen
yeah what mize said
civic palm
Due to the lower NRG regen our CP is constrained and you DO NOT get off enough finishers to make that 4% per CP feel good.
vestal wren
vigor and mfd both seem strong on sin
civic palm
O _O
vestal wren
tho i am not sure how well all talents are optimized
strange python
but that means poison bomb
smoky wind
what is the best legendary combo for mythic argus? seen aa wide range of people using; Shoulders+boots, Shoulders+wrists or Wrists+boots?
civic palm
Not with Subterfuge or EX.
vestal wren
i mean it should be just use on max stacks
so its rly easy to add if not in apl already
strange python
it bothers me that master assassin is even a thing. it just looks so terrible
civic palm
MA feels reeeeally bad.
vestal wren
ma might be good in m+
civic palm
50% is... not great.
SUB is probably pick for M+, at least early on.
fast NRG regen, strong damage, Iron Wire, etc.
and CT wrecks that shit.
strange python
every raid needs a patchwerk
civic palm
Some of that, was not sarcasm.
I don't use "sure" for sarcasm.
Unless it's a suuuuure.
exotic glen
Sure.
midnight vapor
Are people gonna race change in bfa when belf loses the aoe interrupt
exotic glen
only if troll is op
exotic glen
wellllllll im horde so you know
midnight vapor
same, just looking
exotic glen
and the 5%dmg isnt really that good iirc
midnight vapor
hopefully the zandalari troll racial is good then
exotic glen
im just hoping for regular troll
tranquil birch
I thought people were saying sin was really good in M+ in beta rn?
with the ns and temptest interaction
tranquil birch
I'm just confused why people would be saying sub is the way to go for M+ with the removal of all the item interactions that make it good now
civic palm
Who is saying that and are you sure they are talking about BFA?
strange python
there is no m+ in beta
tranquil birch
Oh it was you miz, so I guess you were talking about legion mb
exotic glen
LMAO
civic palm
๐
tranquil birch
lol
exotic glen
fucking rofl
midnight vapor
Lmao
tranquil birch
I'll scroll up further next time.. ๐
steep obsidian
what makes you think sin will be good for dungeons though?
see how it goes i guess
devout temple
which aoe talent is best for dungeons atm in beta
devout temple
so low aoe for another expansion?
civic palm
No.
steep obsidian
no one knows yet tuning isnt done the toolkits seem to be mostly though
civic palm
Yeah SIN isn't missing anything like SUB is.
devout temple
anyone try hidden blades
onyx sigil
That's the legendary cloak talent, right? You run that on ST. Doesn't really compete in dungeons. CT is a lot better for consistent AoE.
devout temple
Im using dreadlords deceit and the talent and im still super low aoe
not another expansio nugh
civic palm
If you are using Hidden Blades for AoE you're doing it wrong.
onyx sigil
Also take NS and try to end packs at 5 CP. open with a fat CT on the next pack.
polar cape
buut poison bombs T.T
onyx sigil
Gross
devout temple
ok ill try that combo squirel
onyx sigil
I hope PB stays as undertuned as it is on beta. Free us from that RNG nonsense.
If I want my DPS to fluctuate by like 20% pull to pull, I'll play OL.
civic palm
Scaling is rough, probably not gonna happen.
onyx sigil
No one really knows the relative value of stats right now. Haste won't be a dead stat for us anymore because bleeds and poisons scale with it in BfA, so you can try stacking it and see how it feels.
steep obsidian
well the spec still plays like shit with no crit at least in 330 gear or so
onyx sigil
Both crit and haste will help speed it up, but the new secondary scaling means we'll have pretty low values for awhile.
I don't think the m+ and raid Azerite traits are in yet either. Hopefully those will have some options that speed it up too.
onyx sigil
You're not capped, right? Probably has OP AoE legendaries. I keep up in Mythics at cap.
onyx sigil
Well, M+ isn't out yet afaik, but yeah both Mut and OL pull pretty good numbers at cap. Tuning still to come, but I haven't been severely behind any specs at cap recently.
Just doing M0s and Heroics.
Stuff like SP and Boomkin are really low. Demo was doing crazy numbers for awhile, but I think they fixed the Implosion bug. Everything else I've run with has done pretty similar damage.
I wouldn't obsess over numbers too much anyways. Like I said, they still haven't done a legit tuning pass, so numbers will change. Just get a feel for how specs play instead of how much damage they do.
fleet whale
Has it been proven the Hidden Blades will be the ST talent? Most people on the forums seem to believe that PB is the only st option...
supple hearth
how to prove ability that doesn't work yet ๐ค
fleet whale
But hidden blades does work on Beta? As does poison bomb?
quick ice
Giggle is thinking of SecTec?
supple hearth
long day. Thought you were talking about the sub ability ^
SHHHH I need sleep >.>
but regardless I don't think anyone is seriously simming anything yet so if anyone says something is "proven" to be THE talent they are more than likely feel crafting. which is fine.
but everything is still subject to change
onyx sigil
PB does hardly any damage on beta. Like, 2% if you're exceptionally lucky (usually <1%). I was getting better results with Hidden Blades. Who knows how it will turn out after tuning.
civic palm
PB is about 5% over the course of a dungeon @ 120.
onyx sigil
I'm talking ST.
I haven't messed with anything but CT for a few builds, though. Idk if they changed the other talents in that time.
Away from the comp right now. Otherwise, I'd hit a dummy for a few minutes to see (not that that will "prove" anything; just to get an idea).
warm parcel
Fok doing more dmg than pb doesnt mean its better
1 its a random few min dummy test
2 your fok has an opportunity cost
dire spoke
It's 246 damage per tick on my premade 110
civic palm
For reference on PBOMB, this is 2 PBombs back to back on a single mob scaled to my level @ 120. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/451565540645797908/unknown.png
and this is an entire Heroic Dungeon.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/448708367905456128/unknown.png
onyx sigil
just hit a dummy for some long pulls. it's obviously not conclusive or anyhting, but PB is a lot better than I thought it was
it's doing 2-3% of my damage pretty consistently. idk if they buffed it or if I didn't give it enough of a chance before
FoK with Hidden Blades is in the same range, but it obviously costs energy and generates less CP
gray reef
hey guys im kinda new to rogue, most guides pointed me in the toxic blade direction but ive just tried alacrity and im not exactly sure why but im pulling and sustaining an extra 300-400k dps
prime void
Yeah no
gray reef
i donno why
dire spoke
Are you using TB on cooldown and casting at least 2 or 3 env inside ?
gray reef
after my opener
dire spoke
if not, there you go
gray reef
i am using it on cd but not sure if i try get all the env in, ill try now
dire spoke
well if you're not sure because you didn't know you need to do that, then no wonder you output less damage tbh
dire spoke
can only tell from logs - it's just easier to clip stuff with alac ... it's less peaks and higher sustain
gray reef
i just cant sustain it after a while it drops down
dire spoke
alac = less peaks and higher sustain
tb = higher peaks and less sustain
sim the talents ๐คท๐ป
eternal tapir
how much haste does one usually go for?
i have only 9% right now because ive been stacking mastery which is currently at 148%
solid nova
You can sim your own stat weights on raidbots and you'll see a definitive answer for your own toon
Haste - It's dog.
eternal tapir
thanks!
solid nova
No problem fam
strange python
Can someone tell me which horde race looks the best for pve rogue on BfA?
strange python
ah jeez ๐ ๐
strange python
Talking about racials omg :D
warm parcel
They do look quite nice with certain mogs
dire spoke
that's a different question then
warm parcel
Dps question?
Ask again 2 weeks after launch
strange python
Yep it was dps question :D
dire spoke
common sense does not apply on early xpac questions
hoary copper
What should my stats be for bfa?
exotic glen
what is bfa
dire spoke
baby don't nerf me
hoary copper
filler xpac
dire spoke
rise of the leper gnomes
odd hazel
shrewd night
Which sauna for bfa?
calm grail
What are you guys rocking on beta for first row? Blindside or MP?
dire spoke
yes
unreal coyote
42
strange python
All the choices are viable as far as we know. So it is mostly speculation. With the new secondary scaling I'm not leaning towards master poisoner. There's some info on blindside in #tc-research, it's marginally better than mutilate. Elaborate planning is what I'm using for dungeons, but it's hard to get a good uptime on it on single target.
So, I like blindside on single target, but obviously it's not that good in aoe
calm grail
Thank you Connor. Just deciced to dip into the Beta for shits on my day off. Gonna be leveling. I think MP would be most efficient for leveling.
What do you think?
strange python
Probably, it's a safe choice
dire spoke
how to grind 6 levels in 1 hour? ๐
calm grail
And use the PVP talent flying daggers @gusty kestrel
sage mesa
trash 
fervent beacon
wise frigate
Rekt
fleet whale
Got a 970 BB/Malch relic with Muderous intent. I think my 955 Ma/Malch was better but meh I replaced it anyway
have to increase my ilvl epeen
vestal wren
we (tc's) simmed hasted bleeds before and found haste to be very strong if they are hasted
so it was nothing unexpected or new knowlage wise
lone junco
My bracer sephuz exang is ready to roll. Prob mediocre. But for short fights, might be cool.
thin ingot
guys are you gemming into mastery or crit?
steep obsidian
you can sim to find out what is more dps in either st or mutliple target for you
with the cookie cutter shoulder poisions build mastery all the way though
hoary copper
That's not abnormal
I had a set with 210 or so, but my crit was poop. Crit is still poop but its better
steep obsidian
well crit is a qol thing very high mastery low crit might be higher dps but personall id drop a few k dps for a bit more crit so i didnt feel like gouging my eyes out when playing
thats a personal decision though
fiery nest
Same
hoary copper
yea I spose. Im at like 180/27 crit/mastery and feels a bit better
fiery nest
2cp mutes are aids
hoary copper
I'd like more crit but all I get is haste
lean hill
Got a relic upgrade, kind of, had BB and MA, lost a Malch but it's so satisfying when you string a bunch of 4 point mutilates
fleet whale
I actually have 3 BB relics right now lol. Might not be the best traits but it is pretty nice to have all of those mutilate crits
fleet whale
and i have 35% passive crit
steep obsidian
enjoy your traits while it lasts a few more weeks and they gawn
lean hill
Dont remind me, I feel stupid even using AP any more but I need it out of my bags
fleet whale
that's why i just swapped in my 970 BB relic over a 955 Master assassin one ๐
lean hill
I want to see 1000ilvl on my weapon, even if it's only for a minute
hoary copper
you'll be at 999 and then the next day it will be wiped
lone junco
Blue Quest daggers >>
lean hill
I doubt I get above where I'm at now, but I will die inside a bit if that happens
Need... an iron relic I think? Probably need it to be 975
Maybe 970
lean hill
Lend me some of those extra ilvls, I only need a couple
Mythic isn't very good to me, my best tier piece is a heroic TF, best relic was an upper kara TF
onyx falcon
why does my titanforges go to this...
hoary copper
Reasons why I dont do m+ anymore, all I get is that crap
steep obsidian
i mean its tier gloves tf socketed could think of worse items to get
lean hill
Could be getting 960 random shoulders with haste mastery every week
naive cypress
Does melee healers count as melee on the first sargeras gaze on mythic argus?
royal lantern
i think yes
plain thistle
yes, both MW monk and H pally cant be targeted by cone of death
and they can get rage on the first cast, like all melees can
drifting cloud
h pala cant get it actually
for some weird reason
probably hardcoded because of judgement whatever
the first two rages that is the melee only ones
arctic venture
!relics
chrome tuskBOT
List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
gray_hounds relic sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=0
naive cypress
Ty guys!
strange python
!help
naive cypress
Just to get this confirmed
Does melee never get targeted by cone?
On Argus Mythic that is
marsh fjord
Do you guys feel like alliance will be a bit more alive then horde this expansion
well more as legion
keen inlet
I don't think outside of severe influence by Blizz in some way that Alliance will bounce back
Even nerfing racials wasn't enough
Horde is established and those patterns/cycles only get worse, not better, with time
naive cypress
Right now its just that all raiders pretty much are horde
So no point in going ally
Racials or not
nimble tartan
Melee never gets targeted by cone btw
marsh fjord
I my honest opinion what blizzard should do is: When you make a class or race just make all racials free that are in the game and just make your own char around it.
keen inlet
this is kinda #off-topic tho!
naive cypress
I will just slap in a comment here
Racials will not affect balance almost whatsoever
vernal adder
naive cypress
Atm 80%+ hardcore raiders is horde
ty @nimble tartan
I dont get why they wont say that in the tooltip
Frustrating af
round vine
what is looking like the best pve talent build for poisons atm? is blindside even good?
strange python
there's some info on blindside in #tc-research - it's not horrible.
exotic glen
esp since buffs
solid nova
๐ช
strange python
it's too early to determine a best build
but, master assassin sucks, I can tell you that
wintry frost
!guide
solid nova
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE
strange python
richard saves the day
solid nova
Brobot aint got nothing on me fam
round vine
yep. that sure is the sin guide from legion. yep it sure is
civic palm
Sure is.
round vine
are all changes final right now? i would like to see blindside work with venom rush ๐ฆ
round vine
lol an edited yes
solid nova
๐ค
round vine
lol
polar grail
Oh Carl...
round vine
haha
polar grail
Carl, have you seen Laura around?
dire spoke
exotic glen
Sure sure.
round vine
stephon has her
polar grail
Not stephon! Oh, ooph, this will not stand! Storms out the front door... Trips
round vine
haha
lone junco
Did you do that?
polar grail
Laugh if you must Carl but one day I will make Laura Winslow mine! Knocks over expensive table decoration
sharp pond
Steve why would you want Laura when Myra is throwing it at you
polar grail
The heart wants what the heart wants.
lone junco
@prime void you going to prep 3 or 4 rogues for BFA like a crazy person? or just the one
prime void
I'm actually not maining rogue XD
I'm flexxing for Bfa
I change mains every expansion typically
prime void
I haz to
drifting cloud
fotm players
prime void
swapping mains isnt Fotm
Yes I will keep visisiting you
I main sin rogue, How tf is that fotm lmao
vestal wren
mythic all fights sorted by amount of parses
not to state anything just to help with your decision what is fotm
drifting cloud
la bibliotheka?
vestal wren
tbh mage gameplay is quite good on beta
i think a lot will change class to classes where gameplay is nice or numbers are high (or both in many cases)
vestal wren
i mean, the classes that changed a lot (or where reworked) work fine
prime void
frost has a new build this week I believe
vestal wren
and the classes that have very low impact on the gcd changes or did not change a lot work well
prime void
so it'll be fun to do some testing
exotic glen
should probs stick to assa in prepatch mizu if they dont change it
we're gonna have fun with cloak
prime void
oh yeah ?
exotic glen
lego cloak stacks with hidden blades talent
civic palm
No.
exotic glen
Sure.
civic palm
There's no fucking chance that sticks.
vestal wren
i saw a lot of ppl play outlaw
prime void
have you played a prepatch before
exotic glen
๐คท๐ฟ
prime void
shit is always fucked
exotic glen
dude they let
civic palm
It's a bit of a clusterfuck for sure.
vestal wren
tuning is not there
vestal wren
so expect some classes to do insane damage and others to do bad one
civic palm
Yeah
vestal wren
doing good damage in pre-patch will mean nothing
civic palm
Prossibly.
exotic glen
like personally i cant wait to just blow shit upo
vestal wren
e.g. exang was the thing in legion pre patch, well you didnt see it used that much after ๐
exotic glen
?????????
maybe because they nerfed it because 400% was too mongo?
to the intial 125%
civic palm
600% was better
exotic glen
yeah and i hope cloak + hb is gonna be overtuned and fun
vestal wren
i think pre-patch is a great time
exotic glen
at least for like just a week
vestal wren
you can experiment a lot with the game
exotic glen
oh yeah deffo
civic palm
Pre-patch aka ClownShoes
exotic glen
its when no one is judging you
pre-raid and pre-patch
are the best times in the game
100%
fleet whale
I always have a ton of fun in every pre-patch
lone junco
With my gear and a sephuz kick. I should be able to get 90% haste prior to the exsang
Will make for a strong open at least.
fleet whale
what fights are you going to be able to kick on for the opener?
alpine pilot
quick question guys, is it worth using envenom at less than 4 combo points during kingsbane to maximize envenom buff uptime? or should i just let the envenom buff fall off then reapply it by using a 4/5 cp envenom during kingsbane duration?
rocky yoke
Any good?
strange python
nope
supple hearth
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
opal crow
Think ive decided on rogue for xpac. Assassin has been my nee fav dps spec
exotic glen
grats
spare cloud
Run while you can
normal plover
We donโt want you
pastel jetty
Hello friends, quick question, should be using my second vanish as soon as my Vendetta is up?
steep obsidian
that depends wholey on if you are going to get a 3rd and if you are in execute range and using bracers
pastel jetty
Most fights usually last around 3-5 mins
tough vale
Hello all assasination rogues. Once again I could use your help. Since last time I've joined a mythic raiding guild and I'm now 6/11 mythic. I bonusrolled a 960 relic and it was rupture damage and master alchemist. It simed higher than 970 Cloak of shadows + Master assasin relic(that gives me my 3rd master assasin). I will link the relic compare from raidbots. Everything I know says that something not right. What shall I do?
Nr 2. I would like a better way to track my cp. A few years back I did see a rogue using a weak aura with cp formed like a half moon. Small circles. Do anyone have that weak aura?
The link to the simulation of relics.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3M8eUk9GZGQA6pSXfCmwVD
drifting cloud
@tough vale you simmed it wrong if I had to guess theres no way that relic would be 40k upgrade
probably dont have crucible in base sim or something, no clue
tough vale
@drifting cloud Could be. Because everything I know says it's not true. I need to wait until EU realms are up again and do a new simulation.
drifting cloud
for that relic to be a 40k upgrade youd literally need like a 920 relic in your weapon ๐
maybe even less
tough vale
It's 970 no dps -> netherlight crucible to master assasin
drifting cloud
but the sim says its a shadw of the vault? thats MA base trait
oh nevermind I read your msg wrong
you just typed the crucible backwards lol
tough vale
Nonetheless.. It needs doublechecking, tripplechecking and quadrupelchecking if it still says upgrade
drifting cloud
or wait were you on 2 master ass traits?
because with shoulders 2nd mass is counted as a 0 dps trait in sims
you either need 1 or 3
tough vale
I have three, but one is from netherlight
drifting cloud
ok then you just simmed it wrong for sure ๐
that relic should be a huge dps loss
worst middle trait and it makes you drop 3 mass which is a huge loss on sims aswell
tough vale
so my thought was correct. I did something wrong when I did the simulation! ๐
Thank you both of you! When EU goes live, I will doublecheck the simulation and confirm it's 200k dps loss. ๐
could be, I have both simpermut and simulationcraft addon. Simpermut v 1.14.15-release and simulationcraft v1.9.1
drifting cloud
oh I just noticed you were 971 simming 2050
yeah youre missing nlc
971 with half decent gear probably sims around 2.2 atleast
tough vale
my best ever pull is Varimathras hc with 2.43m dps
I think I did, yes. @gusty kestrel
strange python
Cloak or boots?
tough vale
shoulders, bracers
strange python
No bracers yet
tough vale
@strange python sorry, I thought it was a comment on my pull. My bad
drifting cloud
dont bully my monk
strange python
Idk then with boots it never ticks as much tbh
drifting cloud
I got like 2 potato pieces on it
and legit 0 tf
meanwhile I just did a cos+16 with a hunter who had 985 argus ring with no argus achiev
then we wipedd 1st boss because nobody could poison vial
and he did it after the wipe
yeah my monk sims potato
my guildies alt monk sims 2.52 tho
he also has a 978 dh that has killed like 4 mythic bosses
i love tf
I guess atleast he does heroic almost every week
so cant blame him for trying
wtf is with your rogue sim tho
does the boots ring combo sim that high but cant highroll like shoulders or whats the deal
is BB bis with ring?
oh even your bracers are insane
jesus
eh im alraedy at waiting for bfa point
didnt even do weekly on my rogue this week
probably first time this xpac
maybe if servers come up before 9 ill do it ๐
I just hate crucible so much
so minmaxing when its up to rng
is a great thing
my rogue barely sims above 2.3 and hes 977
I think I tried doing some custom relic combos
and it wasnt even that huge of a gain
alpine pilot
sorry guys, real fast, which 4 are the ideal t21 4pc set pieces i want? Helm, cloak, pants and chest was it?
vast forum
the 4 ones without haste ๐คท
drifting cloud
pants and gloves both have good stated offpiece they can use
so just depends if you get a good tf on those 2 items
alpine pilot
thanks guys, shoulders and gloves r bad xd
i see the stats, ew
ohh
that sounds good
wow teh aggramar legs r nice
thanks bois
hybrid quarry
Hi there, im complete noob when it comes to rogue. Got 20 hours played time 901 ilvl. But i would like some reasoning as to why Nightstalker > subterfuge?
Nightstalker = +50% buffed garrote on pull and a 50% buffed rapture every 2 mins
Subterfuge a 125% buffed garrote on pull and every 2 mins
steep obsidian
umm subterfuge can be better in some gear sets? you can sim it to find out
hybrid quarry
Sim doesnt explain how. Can someone explain in english how?
hybrid quarry
I have no legos, what do shoulders do?
steep obsidian
shoulders give you 100% crit for 5 seconds so instead of 5 secs of critting dot you get a crit envenom
hybrid quarry
What should your rotation be to utilise NS with and / or without shoulders?
steep obsidian
read guide
hybrid quarry
Id like to ask the same for subt
steep obsidian
in the pins
stark heart
๐
drifting cloud
without shoulders the talents are basically the same, with shoulders ns is alot better
deep beacon
Weird my vendetta keybind is shift left click which can be bound with bartender..however in the beta with the stock bars and keybinds it won't let me bind a shift click... so sad
You wanna try and line up vendetta with shoulders proc and spam as many 4+ combo point envenoms as possible during that time. Also thefirst one should be primed as it will be night stalker buffed
tardy belfry
If haste is bad do we even benefit at all from BL/heroism?
stark heart
Well it's bad not useless completely
hybrid quarry
From what i know, its more that it benefits rogues alot less than any other stat
Everyone benefits from haste if used properly. It just depends on whether +1 haste will be the same dps increase to +1 mastery
stark heart
How can you use haste properly?
hybrid quarry
I dont think rogues can, which is why its not near as good as any other stat
Coming from someone who doesnt play rogue, but has alot of rogue friends
Take everything i say with a handful of salt
thorn moth
hybrid quarry
Lol
steep obsidian
i mean it didn't really take a huge hit its tier set just kinda sucks while sins is very good
some dudes have played sub for raiding all tier and done fine its just not the fotm spec and is a little more work
raw python
what are the best legendaries for assass atm
steep obsidian
acoustic citrus
@raw python The Lego shoulders & Bracers
solid nova
๐ค
solid nova
What the fuck
stark heart
warm parcel
Im having my burger on my lunch break
Ok
They turned out nice. Maybe bit too big a patty
jovial kite
warm parcel
Well you know its gone by now 
dire spoke
same
steep obsidian
different
polar grail
@round vine Good morning carl!
steep obsidian
Did I do thaaaaat?
hexed citrus
:sad:
strange python
is sephuz even worth using when haste is so bad for us
exotic glen
???? no?
strange python
k
solid nova
Just answered your own question there
exotic glen
what else do you have
solid nova
Dont you think?
exotic glen
you need some top tier shit gear
strange python
so im thinking using the argus ring for aoe
exotic glen
if you wanna use sephuz
strange python
over sephuz
warm parcel
That sounds like top tier shit tho ๐
strange python
but dno
exotic glen
use that ring over sephuz anytime
strange python
yup
exotic glen
what weak said
vestal wren
proc sephuz pre fight then switch legos
strange python
can you even sim aoe though
exotic glen
yes
strange python
sick
strange python
k ty for fast reply
gusty pewter
rogue stream?
exotic glen
what
solid nova
Rouge strum
exotic glen
strim
gusty pewter
i want a one rogue streamer xD
exotic glen
and i want you to type a normal sentence
gusty pewter
I am looking for a rogue streamer better=
solid nova
Gingi is on rogue, Pshero some Korean guy
vestal wren
ye was about to say pshero def.
lone junco
Did my char copy, and the exang opener peaked at like 14k dps. Seems high, but I wasnt able to play long.
that was like 30 sec or so. Not sure if that's good or not. I did butcher my first vanish rupture, cause the GCD delay, caused me to fucking exang before rupture.
eager kernel
the pantheon trinket is still op so
lone junco
I wasnt using panth
was a haste build for lols.
I just dont know what other people are getting on the dummy at 110
vestal wren
well afaik trinkets are op asf so use proc trinkets
lone junco
Pretty sure my premade 110 was like 4k range
cant kick the dummy for sephuz, but I was at like 40%c 40h
stark heart
You should be able to blind it I think
vestal wren
stat budget was also quite high iirc (on gear)
lone junco
I tried
lone junco
just running Prydaz/Sephuz for the stats atm. did 2p4p and 0p4p. for lols.
Im so very not excited for bfa though.
vestal wren
i think the lvling will feel quite bad in bfa
lone junco
after 115 anyway
vestal wren
given you lose legos etc mid lvl progress
lone junco
melandrus dies at 115 as well.
stark heart
Don't think leveling is designed around legos
So you will blast through first 5 levels and then slow down
vestal wren
yes but in 100->110 you had tier + trinkets... till 109
now you lose them half way through lvling
stark heart
So you will do proper leveling
vestal wren
it will slow down the lvling compared to wod->legion
lone junco
my beta rogue got to 116 ish.
vestal wren
that is true
vestal wren
i did the quests on early alpha
stark heart
Why mage Tisumi?
lone junco
i stopped after i had to /reload a thousand times.
vestal wren
and they where easy doable with the gear provided, so you should have no issues at all
vestal wren
i cba lvling on beta after they purged my char
lone junco
Im still like 30/70 as to even buying the expac.
stark heart
You are not excited?
vestal wren
it comes down if you want to play it
vestal wren
the game does not change significantly, there will be WQ, m+, raids
stark heart
lone junco
I hit peak wow at the end of Argus. Fun was had. My old ass needs to sleep.
stark heart
Try fury warrior
keen remnant
hm I was checking bfa changes we got the bis legos as talents and fuck this line with venom rush and TB at same line
nothing new :/
strange python
we got the bis legos as talents we did?
fleet whale
Blindside/dispatch existed in MoP and WoD though. If anything the bracers were suppose to replace that "execute." Though it was obviously stronger
stark heart
Cloak bis lego for Assa suddenly?
vernal adder
Nighthold bis legos any rouge can help with thiz?
hoary copper
Sephuz and Belt obvi
open reef
How does it work with cloak leggy + fok talent?
- fok from vanish ns?
With Double buffs
hoary copper
If its like some of the other leggos and leggo talents (like fire mage), they stack at the sec from what Ive read
vapid moth
so what's this FoK business I keep hearing about?
fiery nest
Like 6 months ago a kingsbane and a specific relic trait interaction was bugged and people were getting insane(deleted) logs with just using fok
Since been fixed
If you're just hearing about it now, oof
strange python
huh? it had nothing to do with kingsbane iirc.
fiery nest
The poison scaled infinitely
strange python
that's copying a character over with the legendary cloak + hidden blades talent
they stack, apparently
fiery nest
I'm talking about the bug on live
Where wcl was plagued with rogues doing like 6m dps
strange python
yeah, that was just poison knives scaling with the cumulative damage of the deadly poison dot
no kingsbane involved
fiery nest
O yea
strange python
that's dope
fiery nest
For some reason I thought you needed to use kb to trigger the scaling part
strange python
there was a rumor that it was kingsbane, when people were speculating the bug
cold rampart
!singuide
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
subtle lodge
is poison better than bleed build or its just pref
keen spruce
right now? poison
subtle lodge
thanks homie
hoary copper
They are both good, poison is easier to gear for though @subtle lodge
Bleed is more specific with needs like 3/3 vendetta, bracer boots, 2PT20, more crit , etc
devout temple
has anyone been doing M+ in bfa? is rogue survibility still good
or were the nerfs too much f
civic palm
No. No. No. No. No.
shrewd night
exotic glen
i forgot to reset my meme raidbots sims
so i was surprised to see my new relic setup doing 12mil dps
subtle lodge
Sub or assa terms of damage
exotic glen
assa
grim canopy
So is ASSA good in bfa m+?
now that its open, i can't test yet im only 117
or rogue in general, or did the feint nerf kill us
civic palm
No. No. No. No. No.
prime void
Yeah dude it's amazing. We've had so much time to test
Like let me tell you it's #1 by far
๐ค
exotic glen
Sure sure.
exotic glen
put in the effort and go do it yourself
fiery nest
just log in and do an m+ 4Head
fiery nest
wait until specs have all their talents and are balanced before locking one in
grim canopy
lol
fiery nest
plenty of time
fiery nest
lol
grim canopy
lol
fiery nest
civic palm
No. No. No. No. No.
opaque cosmos
why though
fleet whale
lol enhance is in a good place?
civic palm
No. No. No. No. No.
fleet whale
last I checked they were barely doing more dps than tanks on beta and ss isn't even worth casting
don't make me laugh
random quest
Enhance is in a terrible spot in beta. Go on their discord; it is just a memefest now. 10 year enhance shamams, main contributors to their community, switching to something else because of just how broken the spec is.
opaque cosmos
but why is not rogue good
fleet whale
It's fine damage wise
grim canopy
feint nrerfed
fleet whale
could use some tuning/tweaking in other areas though
grim canopy
who has more survibility tna rogue on beta? no one
doesnt count
only dps counts other 2 is for moms or dads
fleet whale
There are raid-wide damage mechanics?
civic palm
Yes.
grim canopy
Fury is also suppposed to be good
no more take more dmg
nvmind no immunities
Rogue has 3 immunites
cheat death, cloak of shadows, evasion
exotic glen
No. No. No. No. No.
steep obsidian
wait
exotic glen
Sure sure.
steep obsidian
evasion is an immunity as much as cloak of shadows is an immunity
its just to different things
exotic glen
evasion has conditions tho
civic palm
Iceblock though.
steep obsidian
so does cloak
there are a lot of physical hits you can use the little 1sec step evasion perk to take 0 damage in m+
keen spruce
Rogue has never been bad, and probably won't be bad. everyone hates beta because change is spoopy
steep obsidian
general in arcway
civic palm
CHANGE IS BAD
steep obsidian
but things like the brh trash shoot just tank it with evasion instead of having to los
keen spruce
even if rogue is unplayable, we have vanilla coming up
so we all get to kill glad warriors with no armor on and grey daggers
civic palm
Not. Happenin.
calm grail
fleet whale
Spec enjoyment is subjective though. At least for assassination there is nothing about the spec that is broken in terms of its function, even if it's slow.
keen spruce
the GCD changes are the one's I'm least excited for
exotic glen
i miss agonizing poison ๐ฆ
keen spruce
you know what's fun? slowing everything down 
calm grail
Agonizing poison was dogshit.
fleet whale
gcd does little to assassination
fleet whale
one cd on it
civic palm
and VEND. was even sped up.
calm grail
Yeah the gcd change doesn't really affect shit.
fleet whale
vanish still off
exotic glen
sub was so good
how many layers of sarcasm are you on right now
my man
btw ur not my man
PSYCH
fleet whale
vendetta triggers a 1 second gcd now
calm grail
Okay.
civic palm
No.
fleet whale
yes it does, unless if it got changed today
civic palm
calm grail
Tell me how that meaningfully affects your rotation.
civic palm
Yaknow... #off-topic
ionic bear
haven't been keeping up with bfa changes, has there been any changes to make sin play more smooth or less smooth?
calm grail
Got shaved.
fleet whale
they made haste better
fleet whale
Will play sluggish as a fresh 120, but will play better as gear goes up
exotic glen
why would you care about the bis build on beta tho
calm grail
๐
exotic glen
unless you provide feedback or playtest
literally doesnt matter for a few more weeks
calm grail
Okay.
civic palm
No. No. No. No. No.
calm grail
Yes.
civic palm
GET OFF MY PLAYLIST PSY.
calm grail
I've been away for a while, where did Don go?
exotic glen
to bed maybe
calm grail
Name changed?
exotic glen
no?
calm grail
From Don Jose.
exotic glen
No.
calm grail
Is he no longer mod?
drifting cloud
hes offline is that hard to understand
keen spruce
When did we start calling assa "sin"
calm grail
๐ค
drifting cloud
or appear offline at best
calm grail
I guess I was so used to seeing him online it never occurred to me that his name can be at the bottom.
Waow.
drifting cloud
yeah overanalyze it
keen spruce
wanna sound edgy?
calm grail
What?
keen spruce
i'm not angry YOUR ANGRY 
exotic glen
calm down I AM CALM
keen spruce
RELAX
exotic glen
I AM THE CALMEST THERE EVER WAS
exotic glen
I AM SO RELAXED NOW, THANKS
manic vigil
keen spruce
subtle lodge
aoe rotation for assa?
civic palm
That's probably in the guide.
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE
subtle lodge
Thanks amigo
keen inlet
THERE IS ANOTHER BETA KEY GIVEAWAY RIGHT NOW
GO LOOK IN ANNOUNCEMENTS
also do the second step this time for real, just clicking the party reaction isn't enough to win
primal tangle
POGGERS
alpine hedge
lol
steep obsidian
Can a haiku include profanity?
steep obsidian
The test didnโt work better try again
supple hearth
@steep obsidian yes as long as its not breaking the rules it can have profanity
potent lintel
is there a dps meter for battle of azeroth beta?
civic palm
Yeah just google it, should come up near the top.
potent lintel
what about weak aura
civic palm
Yeah
plain thistle
@potent lintel google "wow bfa addons" , first link is a mmochampion post talking about bfa Addons
deep beacon
Do you guys take subterfuge in M+ always even with the shoulders so you can multi garrotte on fortified ?