sec
#assassination
violet yew
SEXBOIZ
exotic glen
its the current legendary FoK cloak + beta ability hidden blades + nightstalker + legendary shoulders
civic palm
heh
violet yew
More importantly what's the best kpop to work out to? #off-topic 
exotic glen
exotic glen
was it st?
i havent been playing much beta tho so even if i got the numbers i wouldnt be able to set it in perspective
sudden solstice
Yo guys, any ATB fights where it’s beneficial to spec Subterfuge over NS if using mantle (mantle + helm sims highest for me right now because I have no tier helm and have m+15 960 crit/mast bracers)? Coven? AHC? Should I switch around leggos for those fights or just use what sims highest?
Finally got the mantle on Tuesday. Have helm, bracers, boots, and mantle as available leggos
Also have 4pc tier
wise frigate
If you use Mantle, NS will always be better.
spare cloud
Yes
sudden solstice
That’s what I figured. Any ATB fights where another 2 leggo combos are more useful? I doubt replacing mantle is ever a DPS boost but say boots + mantle for something like Kin?
spare cloud
depends on your gear
sudden solstice
Switching out the leggo helm for the 2 kinda shitty helms I have drop my crit to below 25% and mast to between 155-163%. With leggo helm I’m at 27% crit and 173% mast - not sure if there’s a certain crit/mast % threshold I want to stay above
I suppose for now I’ll just stick to helm/mantle until I get some better off pieces to keep crit/mast higher
spare cloud
Just play what sims highest
sudden solstice
Yup, sounds good. Thanks as always!
exotic glen
@sudden solstice lots of people have had success with playing subterfuge over nightstalker on coven, so do play that if you want. but you switch out shoulders if so
and boots + shoulders on kingaroth is also a good idea, because you can use vendetta on every single add > boss > add and so on
other than that stick to highest sim yeah
spare cloud
dont do that with 25% crit
sudden solstice
Currently 27% crit 173% mast 13% vers with mantle + helm @exotic glen for subt on coven is that just for double garrote when the tanks swap bosses?
spare cloud
Subterfuge might pull ahead of nighstalker once you approach 35% crit and you use boots bracers
sudden solstice
Reading up further in comments I’ll be holding Vendetta & vanish for first add phase on kin instead of using all my CDs on pull regardless of leggos I use
spare cloud
And Yes, you can garotte both bosses
sudden solstice
Gotcha, yeah low crit is my enemy right now it seems lol
exotic glen
@sudden solstice yeah you only use tb and kingsbane on the boss on pull
that gets you into the rythm of vendetta timings and you have vanish for every adds as well
sudden solstice
Cool thanks guys. Glad I finally got the mantle, makes vanish feel like a real dps CD again. Was using boots/helm for a while but lucked out on mantle/bracers in the last week
exotic glen
@sudden solstice also rank 11 on coven uses subterfuge with 30% crit
spare cloud
Yes, but how much mastery does he have
and how is the boss played.
Its just convenience. If you want to be very specific you can sim it as well, it also depends on human error
can you play it flawlessly
other than that, t20 2pc
sudden solstice
Ok cool, thanks guys. Since I have you here and just got mantle this week - how many ENV should I be getting off after I vanish for opener? 3?
sudden solstice
Ok cool just want to know what to shoot for. Let the 2nd env Tick through & don’t refresh at pandemic before ENV again assuming rup & garrote are both still good on duration
And I’m assuming never garrote to keep uptime up even if it’s going to expire during mantle because waste of gcd
exotic glen
usually you would just garrote before using vanish
exotic glen
if you do happen to let it run out during mantle, dont garrote yeah
sudden solstice
Thanks @exotic glen & @civic palm you guys are awesome
exotic glen
anytime
echo estuary
Tom was helpful
runic gate
Im doing buns damage, but i heard thats the usual
steep obsidian
pretty sure its in the pins somewhere up top
id use simcraft/raidbots over relying on that mod though it will give you an exact number for a relic instead of just a guess
deep beacon
What legos do you guys generally use in M+ ? Just looking for some up to date opinions
fiery nest
i swap to sub 4Head
stark heart
doing m+ now 
steep obsidian
shoulders bracers boots
i swap to boots on bosses where vanish isnt up on the pull
except the nich bosses like odin and helya
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dire spoke
👀
steep obsidian
👓
deep beacon
Thanks.. i guess you take shoulders off
That's a good idea though to go boots if you won't get a vanish off in a fight
zealous dew
boss is shoulder boots unless you don't have vanish, if not vanish crown boots
strange python
https://gyazo.com/78a431b840f4e4093bd98d9f9d05ddd6 this is the kind of scaling shit we have to deal with on beta lmfao
a level 60
solar willow
i sim 2.26m as 975 eq.. for some reason i feel like it should be higher
zealous dew
lul
strange python
eq?
I sim 2.2 at 972.
What do your relics look like? Try fiddling with the relic compare option and add malc/mass/shocklight/etc and see what happens
drifting cloud
id say unless your relics are total poop
jovial kite
2.4 at 975
drifting cloud
tf on helm/chest/legs almost matters more
I sim 2.32 @ 977 but my relics are hot garbage
strange python
yeah, my chest is still 945 and I don't even have the tier pants
tier gloves aren't particularly good
jovial kite
Yeah
drifting cloud
basically cheating 
drifting cloud
no thats just 
jovial kite
Never seen any top 10 exsang logs except mine
drifting cloud
go play sub and beat that kr guy that has r1 on like 8 fights
drifting cloud
anything not meta is meme 
jovial kite
Only fools play tb
drifting cloud
only fools play rogue
jovial kite
cant deny 
drifting cloud
pretty much
manic vigil
manic vigil
fleet whale
Never gonna re-roll, rogue has been my main since 2007
stark heart
Happy suffering then
fleet whale
people say this all the time lol
stark heart
That's personal preference
solid nova
Lol 😃
fleet whale
I don't think assassination really feels that bad on BfA could just use a couple tweaks and stuff like venom rush working with blindside
fleet whale
cause it makes sense?
strange python
it's already the must pick of that row
fleet whale
If you want to self inflict in BfA play spriest
solid nova
Don't promote self harm ty
echo estuary
meh wow in 2k18
exotic glen
being this pathetic in 2k18
mild estuary
video games in 2k18
manic vigil
So many boolees in here. Makes uni sad 
normal zenith
What are people upgrading in the netherlight crucible?
stark heart
Relics?
civic palm
O _O
keen zodiac
Sin is dumpster in bfa boys?
civic palm
LISTEN HERE YOU LITTLE!!
dire spoke
exotic glen
play roblox
marble hemlock
why is that not animated @dire spoke ?
dire spoke
because it's a png
stark heart
If you wanna try bfa Assa think you can replace artifact with some usual daggers, break t214p and replace all legos with off pieces. Should be close to what beta has. Current vr would act as hasted bleeds compensation
cold rampart
!singuide
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
simple barn
Ok, so im not sure why i am doing "so low" damage... Anyone that might wanna help me out?
Char: Chilireaper-scarshield legion
Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/scarshield-legion/chilireaper
Raider.io: https://raider.io/characters/eu/scarshield-legion/Chilireaper
strange python
You're opener should be Garrote - Mutilate - Rupture - Vendetta - Toxic Blade - Kingsbane - Vanish - Envenom - Mutilate - Envenom - Mutilate - Envenom
You're using fan of knives at 4cp. That is a dps loss unless you have a lot of poison knives traits
You have no master assassin or master alchemist relics
You're letting garrote fall off sometimes
simple barn
When i read up on relics in the netherlight crucible on sites like wowhead, these relicpaths were "bis"
Out of the ones i could choose from
strange python
that's okay, just saying that those two traits make a big impact and are what you should be aiming for if you didn't already know
simple barn
Im really thankful its just that i was looking at pages like icyveins and they said that i shouldnt go for those traits...
strange python
icy veins is a hit or miss website, the quality of the guides depends on the author and how frequently they are updated
there is a great guide at the top of the discord here
simple barn
I think i read it a while back, looking at it now its only my lowest ilevel relic that i had the option to go for master assassin anyway
sudden solstice
Yo guys, Thugee or prey on the weak for m+? Using mantle & 4pc if it helps
exotic glen
thuggee even though it doesnt really matter
marble hemlock
^this
unless youre responsible for stunning adds that need to die fast, go thugee for quality of life
exotic glen
i wouldnt do that to a rogue with mantle
marble hemlock
i think coen is really the only dungeon where you kidney for a specific reason
zealous dew
😄
strange python
Eh been leveling (71 so far) as Outlaw for the most. Heard a friend say assassination is better/faster. Figured I'd come here to check. Any thoughts?
civic palm
It might be.
strange python
I mean it's not like i have trouble killing stuff.. but I do want to streamline things as much as possible. Leveling isn't exactly the most fun things to do.
I doubt assassination is faster
opal crow
I did outlaw till 60
strange python
it's a DoT class
civic palm
If anything SUB would be faster.
opal crow
Switched to assassin and was way quicker
End every fight with 6 combo stealth rupture 3x mut
Dead
strange python
I'll just play around a bit with it anyway. Never hurts to learn all specs during leveling rather than learn at 110
opal crow
Next
Much faster than waiting on procs
Make sure you have that talent in tier 2
Nightstalker
And vigor
So end with 5
Not 6
strange python
Alright thanks for the tips, will upgrade some dagger heirlooms, think they're still at 60
opal crow
Yeah that helps. But once you get going its easy
You can also garrote then rupture if its an elite
Speeds it up
strange python
for enchants.. double dancing steel?
opal crow
Uhhh. Never do enchants low lvl.
Whatever crit is prob
Only cause i feel crit makes a huge diff pre 100. Takes mobs down way quicker
calm elbow
hi all
strange python
FYI if you put a dauntless set from broken shore (nethershards) in your void storage before you transfer your charcter to beta it scales to a much higher ilvl for some reason. Starts at 308 ilvl for non warforged/titanforged
upper musk
Hey guys, i have a question about assassination.
if Venmonous Wounds grants energy everytime your bleed does damage, why don't you take Hemorrhage over Master Poisoner?
strange python
the talent only says rupture or garrote
upper musk
Is the damage loss too much?
strange python
err passive ability
upper musk
it says " You regain 10 Energy each time your abilities deal bleed damage to a posioned target"
civic palm
Hemo isn't a bleed.
upper musk
ah, I see now, it says physical damage and increasing bleed damage
lame
k, thx guys
fleet whale
Hemo's been a dead talent since the huge exsang nerf back in legion pre-patch
grand dagger
Hemo bleed build sounds kind of fun, too bad
echo estuary
Hemo belongs to sub
fleet whale
it really wasn't that fun imo
grand dagger
Coming from feral it sounds similar to the bleed build there
fleet whale
Hemo was a pretty short dot and it would feel awkward at times to apply it, much prefer bleed build using EP
civic palm
Yeah the duration on Hemo made it booty.
fleet whale
it was really bad in legion pre-patch with the 400% exsang and garrote's cd
civic palm
That and the rest of the spell.
fleet whale
after opener you had to wait some time to re-apply garrote
grand dagger
What was hemo duration
fleet whale
it says 20 seconds... could of sworn it used to be 15
civic palm
Yeah was thinking ~16.
I am sure that it was buffed over the course of the expansion to try and make it competitive.
fleet whale
but in any case it never really felt good press yeah it increased the skill cap slightly but it just felt really clunky
grand dagger
Yeah i guess it kind of makes more sense to be poison build with artifact stuff anyway
spare flame
Is there any consensus on what spec is best in bfa thus far?
spare cloud
No because damage is not balanced yet
spare flame
I hear assassination is basically the same in terms of playstyle
which saddens me
hoping for some fun sub changes
civic palm
...
fleet whale
having spec revamps every expansion isn't always fun
spare cloud
I mean they rework much in the expansion as well
the playstyles change so much during it as well
So its pretty much a revamp every patch
fleet whale
I mean yeah, gear does that
spare cloud
Nah not only gear
fleet whale
but the core of assassination hasn't really changed since Cata? although legion did add some new things like TB and KB
spare cloud
agonizing poison? exsanguinate?
fleet whale
when while it seems locks get built from the ground up every expansion
fleet whale
When did you last use ambush as assassin? And I assume you mean dispatch?
spare cloud
dispatch as well
fleet whale
Some abilities may have been swapped around and renamed but the core of the spec has been the same: keep dots up and pool envenoms
spare cloud
Idk in the end of wod sub was superior so why play assa 🤷
affli and destro stayed the same as well
affli is just dots and destro strong casts
only changed demonology due to the introduction of demonhunter
if you think thats the core of a specc
Keep dots up gues for every dot class
core gameplay of shadowpriest affli hasnt changed as well then
and owl
and cat
and unholy dk
unholy not so much though, due to the minions etc.
and the focus on that
fleet whale
spriest got a whole new resource and form? that's a pretty big revamp
assassin got nothing like that in legion
spare cloud
so? the core mechanic is still keep dots up and cast mindblast 🤷
Just cause there is a instant cast in another form taht doesnt change the core gameplay
fleet whale
The way it's done and played is far different though? Assassin always has had combo points, and energy
spare cloud
exsanguinate is also just keep dots up and pool for envenom
But it plays very differently
and keep dots up
thats without considering you dont pool for envenom there but for elaborate planning
You dont need to introduce insanity to a rogue to give it different feeling gameplay
fleet whale
Ok... but none of this means that assassin got a huge overhaul in Legion
spare cloud
kingsbane and toxic blade as well as agonizing poison was pretty huge in legion
fleet whale
AP was passive. Kingsbane and Toxic blade were new buttons, but that alone doesn't qualify Sin as being a spec that got a huge revamp
spare cloud
changing up gameplay and completely revamping a specc are 2 different things
But yeah, that is true
a really large revamp hasnt happened
for assa
fleet whale
Exsang you could argue would make assassin feel the most "different"
but even so, it's only one button, and with everything else pretty much doing the same it's always had, exsang alone wouldn't make the spec feel entirely different
spare cloud
felt pretty different to play to me 🤷
no specc has changed to such an extend
warrior has used the same core mechanic for at least 2 expansions, fury and arms, so do pretty much all t he classes
except for, well demo warlock
and demonhunter 
spare cloud
Oh yeah, survival ofc.
waxen roost
i have a question about the antorus 2p can it proc with death from above?
civic palm
Should.
waxen roost
i know that dfa appies envenom but the set piece does say envenom specifically, so i was curious.
civic palm
What does the set bonus say then? Specifically.
waxen roost
When you use Envenom, your Deadly and Wound poisons have 35% increased chance to critacally strike for 6 sec.
civic palm
Ay, Envenom, there ya go.
The Envenom from DFA is (should be) the same as your normal Envenom, just with the DMG mod from DFA.
waxen roost
true.
just don't know what the set buff looks like so i have not been able to see if it's the case.
willow wagon
why the fuck is it called sin rogue just call it ass like it is
waxen roost
lel, i call it Ass Rogue when i ref to it since it's rotation if wierd.
civic palm
It works as you would expect.
and it's been SIN for over a decade, get over it.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
waxen roost
yes i works, lel thought that it was an invis one like the locks one is.
i feel dumb now.
waxen roost
true.
fervent beacon
I actually like to refers to it as mut
drives people crazy, but i was a mut boi back in BC with illy daggers.
civic palm
steep obsidian
is that like a crappy version of nutella?
civic palm
It's originally Nut Master, so probably.
steep obsidian
i think it says hazelnut so it looks like it
civic palm
Yeah
steep obsidian
gosh
strange python
yo guys whats the best spec for BfA?
civic palm
Red Mage IMO
main blaze
Yeah I like what they are doing with red mage
Red mage might be the best spec for BFA
Ive always hated playing ranged classes but red mage and their sword abilities make it pretty fun
tardy belfry
Everyone knows red mage is just good at the start of expansions and then scales poorly
steep obsidian
in case the answer wasn't clear feylz, no one can possibly know that right now come back in a few months
grim skiff
hows soul ring ?
quick ice
Not great
dire spoke
You can check out herodamage.com for setups and output with that ring
deep beacon
What talents and pvp ones have you guys found to be interesting on BFA ?
viscid helm
none
strange python
why is it that people hate us soloing heroic dungeons after we get in queue?
what experience?
deep beacon
i got kicked out of a heroic dungeon once because some druid and DH ran ahead in black rook hold and pulled the second to last boss and of course he reset when he got aggro on the rest of the group. Was on my ret
strange python
the only reason i get for people getting angry that i solo them, is "we get no loot" like, it's heroic loot. wtf?
deep beacon
Nothing wrong with soloing it I do it also it's when you impact the actual enjoyment of the dungeon in a negative way. The only way I can see that is if people rush ahead too far from the "slower" classes and also there are still some players who just leveled an alt, etc. in my 950+ toons I still respect other people somewhat 😃
I understand the VIPs are in a hurry to get it over with though 😃
strange python
people today are so self-entitled.
wise frigate
People enjoy heroics? What?
dire spoke
whew
how blizz removes artifacts from a spec https://giphy.com/gifs/cheezburger-food-cartoon-cake-xTiTnrliW65rlwud8I
wise frigate
But artifacts didn't do that much for a spec /s
sharp viper
i still want kingsbane baseline :/
steep obsidian
yeah kb made the whole rotation a lot more interesting
its pretty boring in bfa imo
dire spoke
tbh outlaw is really nice to play
steep obsidian
i haven ttested it on beta
i cant play it with a 250 ping
without wanting to just log off
odd hazel
It's going to be interesting to see how things play in pre-patch.
dire spoke
that's just going to be broken for the most part
odd hazel
i haven't got beta so it'll be nice to just see changes
dire spoke
it won't give you the beta exp because artifact and talents will stack
odd hazel
Shhh, senpai please.
dire spoke
odd hazel
But: i've seen thoughts on outlaw in beta, whats your guys thoughts on Sin?
changes feel smooth/etc?
steep obsidian
its hard to say until you get geared
but at like 330 ilvl it feels pretty bad
miss artifact perks
kingsbane
yeah
for sure
i havent tested any traits coz screw grinding world quests
steep obsidian
umm
garrote has a shorter cd
pb does hardly any damage but ticks over 2 secs instead of 3
and the talent changes that you can see on wowhead anyway
odd hazel
❤
steep obsidian
crimston tempest is sorta fun i guess but in shit gear you can't really spam it
yeah even getting enough cp to get up ruptures takes ages for me on beta just gotta get gear with crit on it
odd hazel
just wonder which spec might be best for leveling but i guess it doesnt matter if everythings slow
dire spoke
I can see CT being very potent with EP ... but there is no way you'll be able to clip EP anymore
keen inlet
I can see Assassination still being a snoozefest 
CHANGE MY MIND
tbh I'd rather a flowing, working snoozefest than a broken mess
outlaw btw
odd hazel
Don, please why you do this
stark heart
tbh I'd rather not settle on mediocre quality no matter if it's fast or slow
steep obsidian
doesnt need to be fast for me
outlaw gives me rsi
just some interesting stuff to min max and get good at
keen inlet
I didn't do anything
My sorrow is a vast sea of disappointment, my feels eternal
I suffer as you do
Rogues are the new DKs
odd hazel
Main switching or something?
devout temple
every spec getting much weaker once you ding 115 is gonna feel weird
exotic glen
you mean 120
hoary haven
The artifact ability stops working at 115, doesn't it?
split veldt
do we know what the best starting spec for BFA will be?
hoary haven
ah
viscid helm
its gone in prepatch
steep obsidian
i knew there was a reason i kept all those high ilvl relics in the bank
gonna be useful in pre patch and levelling for a little bit
royal lantern
i dont think you can insert new relics anymore? its grayed out on the beta
exotic glen
makes sense i guess
arent they corrupt now or
yeah that shaky thing when you open it
fleet whale
the relic slots weren't greyed out for me but everything else was
royal lantern
thats how it looks on the beta right now, can interact with my relics too
fleet whale
I don't have any additional relics on beta to test this out though
steep obsidian
you can put new relics in it works fine
obv no traits that why it worth putting high ilvl ones in
exotic glen
what do they not give traits?
fleet whale
nah, I think relics will just be there for ilvl
exotic glen
gotta save the ilvl relics then
steep obsidian
as soon as you get a green or blue weapon worth using you will replace it
coz you can enchant it
fleet whale
so yeah, if you get some 980 sprint relic from your cache
you might want to hold on to it lol
exotic glen
royal lantern
idk if it is really worth it, you will probably replace the weapon really fast
exotic glen
brb checking my own
fleet whale
maybe level 115 they will get replaced
royal lantern
didnt do any quest stuff in the beta, just some class gameplay test stuff.....dont want too spoil myself ._.
valid moss
time to item restore some garbo relics pog
fleet whale
Shoulders feel so nice when leveling it's going to be sad when the effect gets turned off
royal lantern
you can keep the nerfed version as assa, isnt that great /s
fleet whale
That talent won't be used until we get pretty high gear levels
royal lantern
ik
fleet whale
I might not use bracers when leveling though, already have another high ilvl bracer piece in my bags
exotic glen
that is super pogchamp right there
but its with vendetta right
so on aoe its a bit lower on average
fleet whale
pantheon trinket alone can solo a whole dungeon
ok maybe not, but it's still very powerful
sly frigate
Yo guys, i need advice, i have a 980relic with envenom and rupture dmg. and i have a 960relic with Master alchemist and Vendetta. do you think it's worth sacrificeing 6ilvl on weapon for the relic traits? Assassination ofc
exotic glen
fleet whale
what relic are you using currently?
exotic glen
just sim it my dude
sly frigate
and ofc if i get x3 vendetta relics then i'll swap shoulders for boats
i'm not really that good at siming Argonic
exotic glen
good thing raidbots makes simming extremely easy
if you dont know it
need help with it?
dire spoke
you best simulate that using the relic compare option on raidbots.com - with first use you need to import your data (relics) by inputting the /simc information you get with the ingame simulationcraft addon
exotic glen
do you have the simc addon in wow
think its called simulationcraft actually
yeah
sly frigate
Shadow is, envenom dmg, and FoK poisen dmg ( 980)
Iron is Rupture dmg and vendetta (980)
and blood is FoK dmg and A
*Master alchemist
fleet whale
two FoK relics?
exotic glen
@sly frigate if you wanna make life easier for yourself, get the addon i mentioned
sly frigate
apperently i have the addon
exotic glen
sweet
sly frigate
but the times i've used it it's bugged out on the webpage soo i basicly stoped useing it
exotic glen
you dont need the webpage, just the addon
so open the game, type in chat /simc
you get a big wall of text, copy it and then tell me when you've done that
sly frigate
"Your SimC addon appears to be out-of-date or invalid - make sure you have version 1.8.5 or higher."
exotic glen
might need to update it first bud
sly frigate
updated, and reloading the game
exotic glen
sweet, follow the steps i said then
sly frigate
yeah
sly frigate
ye i know 😛 that the site that giving me that message
drifting cloud
exotic glen
what message does it give you?
sly frigate
see
exotic glen
eh just ignore it i guess
sly frigate
okei, ignoring , then what?
exotic glen
so you see your currently relics right
sly frigate
aye
exotic glen
remove the ones you want to switch out and put your new relics in
naive cypress
On argus progression, is there any difference in gear set? From the usual Mantle/Bracer (Assuming it sims best ST)
sly frigate
i can remove it, but i can't seem to replace it :S
exotic glen
not really, no
naive cypress
Ok, ty
sly frigate
nvm found out of it
sly frigate
okei, here is the current deal....
i ONLY have the rellic but not any of the other armor/weapons in the equation
exotic glen
i thought you were only simming your weapon
steep obsidian
Fill in toon and realm name mebbe
exotic glen
use this tab then https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/gear
toon and realm name doesnt matter with the addon tho
steep obsidian
Shouldnt
drifting cloud
well if he literally gets an error because he cant update the addon
why do you assume it copies stuff over correctly
;d
drifting cloud
yeah about version number which probably means he updated it wrong 🤷
drifting cloud
you assume people actually use the app
sly frigate
i don't ( anymore) i liturally have to drag the updates from WinRar to the folder xD
exotic glen
drifting cloud
😉
exotic glen
my head hurts
civic palm
O _O
exotic glen
fiddle around with the website and come back if you have more questions i guess
sly frigate
need to do argus mythic now, but i'll try this again after or tomorrow
Curse don't work for me anymore, sadly
civic palm
Over a year ago > _>
exotic glen
<_>
civic palm
IIRC they might still have a legacy client.
Though the twitch client works perfectly fine.
sly frigate
you guys might need to learn me the difference and how it work if it's complicated
civic palm
Not it.
naive cypress
Does Cone target people with soulblight?
tranquil birch
if you're melee you don't have to worry about cone baiting, you can go drop your blight in Africa without worry
your range need to wait until the cone animation starts to move to the side with their blight, because the animation indicates that the cone location has already been set
@naive cypress
naive cypress
Ok, thanks guys ^^
strange python
any good info on sin bfa talent setups and such?
General consensus is that the first row is all viable, toxic blade/exsang both suck, hidden blades for single target, crimson tempest aoe
lone junco
Anything been nerfed in beta this week? I was on vaca.
strange python
oh and master assassin sucks
Nope noobe
So Venom Rush is the best on that row? Mastery still our best stat?
No stat weights have been done iirc but can't imagine mastery being dethroned
It seems pretty good, especially with being able to multi-garrote
thx
dawn kettle
@supple hearth https://i.imgur.com/PaMidS1.png i found a thing
fleet whale
why would venom rush be the best talent right now, maybe for like a fresh 120 but I doubt anything past that
plain thistle
@naive cypress cone doesnt target melee, with or without rage/fear
granite grove
is poison or bleed build best?
plain thistle
oh, it was already answered 😃
@granite grove you need to sim yourself
both are viable and depend too much on gear/stats, which one is the best is up to your current gear
strange python
maybe you haven't actually seen the energy regen we have without it
fleet whale
I have, used all talents, venom rush is still shit
drifting cloud
are you a feelycraft expert
void pecan
aren't we all feelycraft experts
fleet whale
nah, I've been using details on beta
have blindside work with venom rush, and maybe replace TB with kingsbane
I actually wouldn't mind a blindside/venom rush combo if the two talents worked with each other. yeah it would be simple but it would at least be somewhat reactive a bit faster especially at low gear levels.
strange python
it will make venom rush even more of a must-pick
fleet whale
if blizz won't make venom rush work with blindside, then there is no reason to have blindside at all in the tree
I mean, I have posted a thread on this on the forums and from looking at other threads most rogues agree that venom rush should work with blindside
strange python
I thought the simulation proved that blindside is marginally better than using mutilate anyway
civic palm
Not all feedback is actionable and works with where they want to go, even in just this expansion.
For all we know there are Blindside traits coming and putting NRG regen or NRG reduction on it might break it.
stark heart
if talent requires some azerite to be worth it then something is not quite raid with said talent
not putting it might very well make Blindside not worth pressing unless proc in execute with VR
I actually think VR shouldn't on itself change mutialte vs blindside dynamic and it potentially breaks things in its current state
fleet whale
Yeah, but the double dose trait for example, works only with mutilate
Even if blindside is still better to use during execute or proc, then that trait becomes loses all value when the enemy is at execute range
stark heart
right so you might not pick up that trait if you picked blinsdie as a talent or vice versa. Talents is a part of your baseline kit, you can't unwear some item and replace VR with something else
azerite come and go with new raids, talents are there for a whole expansion presumably. Doesn't make sense creating conflicting talents imo
fleet whale
But blindside is designed to replace mut when in execute? It's not all that different than gloomblade replacing backstab, and blizz is able to have traits work with both there
stark heart
gloom just overrides backstab, I don't see the similarity here
fleet whale
gloomblade takes out the positional requirement and gives you a harder-hitting filler. Blindside is also a hard hitting filler though one that is an execute and a proc but never the less speeds up a rather slow and static spec
stark heart
yeah traits tipping the scales are fine, just like tiers now might do that to certain talent rows( see garrote oriented tier for Assa and Subtr )
fleet whale
I mean this would be fine and all but there is currently 0 traits or talents that benefit blindside. The general azurite ones don't count, as every class gets them. Which brings back to what I said earlier, if there is no talent or azerite trait that benefits blindside, why did blizz add it back as a talent? They might as well have kept hemo.
prime void
tisumi
why do I always have to die when we stack dogs
So annoying :/
yup
every
single
itme
signal oxide
What talent set up have ppl been using on the beta?
prime void
What is beta/
nimble tartan
dying on dogs omejalul
eager kernel
i know that feeling
nimble tartan
both
lone junco
😴
plain thistle
strange python
Yo what is the best spec for ass for pvp
echo estuary
Lube spec
supple hearth
steep obsidian
do you get disqualified from the beta key comp if you can't figure out how to crop a screenshot?
spare cloud
it said in the announcements that the winner is taken randomly
why bother with a good screenshot then if its rolled in the end
steep obsidian
true
some of them are good though
the dude with all his transmogs
less he stole it
spare cloud
Could post a picture of a dog, if mods dont see it 
Zeruul is a transmog freak
go into the transmog chat and read the pins there
dude literally writes guides on how to transmog properly
steep obsidian
that is probably a good idea
at least farming transmog would give me something to do
spare cloud
Yeah well, just needs to be a random wow rogue screenshot then
steep obsidian
not that I know of, no one is theorycrafting about bfa yet though but lots here have beta and can answer some basic questions or complain to you about how bad it is
warm parcel
Well there is nothing that changed
Rogue will play like it does now
Only mystery remains is new sub talent as we cannot test it yet
knotty sphinx
stat priority probably most likely got haste with mastery on top now after poisons and bleed damage is acutally effected by haste now
warm parcel
No. Stat prio will be what ever sim tells it will be after balance patch arrives
steep obsidian
and that
pastel jetty
Hello everyone, recently started playing rogue, I know I should be simming myself (which I am) but how much mastery should I be aiming for?
steep obsidian
All stats are ok cept haste there are no caps for mastery
frigid vigil
hows rogue looking for bfa
random dragon
solid as pudding
echo cargo
i'm just worried about sin in keys w/o shoulders xd
frozen pecan
what to play in bfa? 🤔
steep obsidian
fortnite
frozen pecan
I'm not 12
vivid bone
play warrior, kthxbai
strange python
sage merlin
strange python
Vers nice ui. But need some tweeks for raiding
vivid bone
It's easy to tweak tbh
golden radish
Hey, I am raiding Antorus M (first 5 bosses) on my alt Rogue today. Are there any Rogue specific tactics I should be aware of, way to increase DPS and so on ?
shrewd night
Guide has a section for it
dire spoke
golden radish
Thank you, somehow missed that section
dire spoke
It's a blog post
wild dove
Hi guys and girls! Been doing some digging about haste for bfa and can’t find an answer. With haste affect poisons and bleeds just curious if it’s going to affect crimson tempest bleeds as well?
shrewd pine
haste now affects bleeds
crimson tempest is bleed
wild dove
That would be my assumption too! But we all know blizz does some funny things 😂
solid nova
In some cases, Common sense prevails
dire spoke
cmonsensebruh
hoary copper
Did you guys see the Sin WA HUD someone made? https://imgur.com/a/fyH4YG6
hoary copper
More than 3 but no one said anything so theres that
hoary copper
Also too much
too complicated
And we dont care about surge of toxins really anyway
warm parcel
Heresy
spare cloud
@solid nova
solid nova
What do you want
rigid gulch
Hello ppl. What talents are you running in open world argus?
odd hazel
Richard, why you do dis
hoary copper
Check out the guide for talent info, doesnt really change
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
hoary copper
!singuide
solid nova
Take leaching poison, everything else can remain standard
Everything dies super fast anyway
rigid gulch
Ok, pretty fresh 110 boosted so was wondering about MfD on argus
fervent beacon
Not taking VR 
hoary copper
idk how much the poison really helps. I dont remember it healing really much. I like the feint talent. Feint + vial heals is pretty good too
lilac osprey
Envenom only effect the target I cast it on or all targets I have poisoned?
The 30% poison increase I’m talking about
warm parcel
Reread it
lilac osprey
Ok
restive otter
what are good legendaries for M+? still shoulders/bracers or shoulders somethign else?
strange python
shoulders/bracers
fading hearth
should i be running this or sub in 2s?
strange python
why boots for trash
as opposed to trash not even living long enough for vendetta duration
civic palm
noty
civic palm
Capitalize your P's you jackass!!
prime void
Tisumi is a player who parses purple a good player
Wanted to hear your feedback on this
civic palm
Bracers everywhere.
civic palm
l o l
prime void
Tisumi is a player who parses purple a good player?
vestal wren
i think 1 is enough 😉
prime void
Fixeed it XD
Fuu don't hate me 😦
No bully fuu
discussion in another discord
Said that a player who parses 50 is an average player, I disagree
I see 50 as dog tier shit
But that's my perspective so ye
prime void
syp arg ❤
restive otter
I am asking for 20ish keys
prime void
Sup *
Took a 2.5 month break 😃
Had to get some real life shit in order
Graduate and all that bullshit
exotic glen
hope you're better than ever man
civic palm
or homo :3
exotic glen
full homo
restive otter
@gusty kestrel thank you
exotic glen
by toph
civic palm
O _O
solid nova
Link logs, not wow analyzer
civic palm
prime void
post a log instead of wowanalyzer
rare river
OKOKOK
exotic glen
okokok
civic palm
o _o 💦
exotic glen
yes
rare river
solid nova
Assuming thhis is you
There's going to be a lot to talk about
In terms of improvement
vestal wren
not entirely
rare river
ESSKETTIT
solid nova
Yes entirely, are we looking at different logs
rare river
im just trying to get better
solid nova
Try not to double rupture, its a waste
vestal wren
this bar is not the duration its the cooldown of the spell
exotic glen
use another trinket than forgefiends
vestal wren
so its a bit diffrent then on wcl
solid nova
Downtimes?
exotic glen
p o o l i n g
solid nova
Even without shoulders, you're not using vanish either
For some reason you're not using it at all
rare river
when should i use it
exotic glen
used it once on garothi
rare river
i never know when to
solid nova
You're double rupturing after KB as well - complete waste of KB use
exotic glen
you used it to refreh garrote as well, use it on rupture without shoulders
civic palm
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE
exotic glen
like there are downtimes EVERYWHERE of like 10-15 seconds
solid nova
Are you playing on high ping?
exotic glen
if you're soaking then bad luck i guess but ask your ranged to take soaking thats out of melee range
solid nova
Im linking vari
solid nova
Pref vari as less downtime 🤷
exotic glen
i counted about 11 places that exceed 5 seconds of downtime
like you probably spent about a minute not attacking the boss in total
exotic glen
you dont need to keep linking them, we can see them dont worry
rare river
sweet
exotic glen
on every single fight you wait like 5 seconds after pull until you do anything at all
its a small thing but like are you afraid of ninjapulling, or are you playing with high ping or what is happening
prime void
tricks it and rip it
exotic glen
i think we have given you plenty of things to start on
you can always record some new logs and come again for more help once you have fixed the basic mistakes
rare river
i will
exotic glen
aight, good luck man
marsh fjord
Hi guys i never mained a rogue but i'm going to level one a small qeustion is assa rogue a swift gameplay spec?
strange python
😄 it's not
exotic glen
@marsh fjord
civic palm
39?! SO HIGH O _O
strange python
yea was gonna say
exotic glen
sad thing is i couldnt remember where to find it lmao
so was just google-fu'ing my way through it
civic palm
Yeah someone was wondering about it a few weeks ago and I was just wishing them good luck in finding it, haha
strange python
im surprised windwalker is lower
marsh fjord
Are their times that we have nothing to press?
vestal wren
dh #1 with 3 button spec
strange python
dh is the pinnacle of wow design obviously
exotic glen
its not so much that you cant press it
civic palm
Anyway, SIN is a DOT maintenance class.
exotic glen
its more that you are waiting for something or pooling
vestal wren
well pooling is basically tactical waiting
marsh fjord
I'm a enhancement main and i'm looking for a other spec and assa looked super cool.
exotic glen
surprised that SP isnt like 2nd or 1st
civic palm
Planning.
exotic glen
do you like fast apm?
vestal wren
i think sub apm is in a good spot and its not #1
marsh fjord
i like fast apm y
civic palm
50 - 60 is pretty quick, before things get fucking spammy.
vestal wren
if you look to play now you are fine, for bfa you might want to look at warrior or dh for high apm
fast anvil
Whats up everyone got a quick question was sitting down with another top tiered raider and was bullshitting about class racials and where and when they are useful and evidently classes have BiS racials. I am a nightelf rogue, racial is shadowmeld. He was stating that i could use shadowmeld to pop me back into stealth i have tried this multiple times does it not work? Is it working and im just messing up before the macro can pop me into stealth? or is this outdated strat that no longer works
civic palm
Shadowmeld isn't proper stealth.
exotic glen
@fast anvil depends what you mean, you can use shadowmeld > stealth in open world to escape combat
strange python
you don't go into stealth but you can use it to cheese some mechanics especially in m+
like a mini vanish
vestal wren
you can use shadowmelt to get stealth but only on non bossfights
fast anvil
Shadowmeld>stealth> to forward proc another shoulders burst
civic palm
There's a lot of planning for SIN, that's about it.
vestal wren
idk you usually just press everything kinda on cd (not saying planing cant be benefical)
strange python
it has its ins and outs like every spec
civic palm
Shadowmeld is Vanishes little brother.
marsh fjord
Mabye i should just test it out and look how it plays
exotic glen
while its not high apm, i think the playstyle is really neat so
fast anvil
Yeah was hoping that shadowmeld could pop me out of combat> to forward a stealth > following a 3rd burst due to leggo shoulders
exotic glen
you cant do this on bosses as fuu said
strange python
that would be so broken
marsh fjord
Most lovely thing i love about enhance is that you always get those proc's and you feel like a damn god
civic palm
Completely broken, haha.
lean hill
Everyone would be NE if it worked like that
exotic glen
sin doesnt have any reactionary procs though
only poison bomb and you dont really play around that
marsh fjord
PB is Rng right?
exotic glen
aye
fast anvil
yeah
lean hill
Other than cross your fingers on big pulls
exotic glen
if you want reactionary procs try outlaw
marsh fjord
i heard people saying in my guild SHITT NO PROC"SSSS
strange python
pb is the only thing wrong with the spec 😄
fast anvil
idk outlaws pretty damn fun lol walking around with SnD and 10 stacks of alacrity i sit at like 57% haste its dumb and fun XD
vestal wren
pb is kinda fixed on beta tho
civic palm
Fixed in the wrong direction O _O
vestal wren
the impact is small enough to be not a concern
marsh fjord
But i think i kinda like it, put poision on every mob do some sick damage woop woop
civic palm
atm it's so flaccid it might as well not exist.
vestal wren
but i think with it having low impact on aoe and beeing decent on st its a decent choice for the row
marsh fjord
But i feel like rogue is the only challenging spec for me left to play.
fast anvil
So everyone i have to ask, Where is sin at for bfa currently? will we still be playing sin for top dps? is outlaw coming back as a proper combat rogue and taking first place? whats the real deal with our class for bfa and what will be top.
strange python
it's too soon to get a genuine answer
exotic glen
we dont know mate
civic palm
atm SIN seems fine, but we still need some numbers.
vestal wren
i mean atm you just pray for pb procs good gameplay mean more then pb procs on pbe
lean hill
Whatever we are all playing to start, itll be something else in a month
exotic glen
@marsh fjord sin isnt challenging. its not BM hunter but its close
marsh fjord
and what i saw as well in pvp you can just walk away around 10% health and they die of bleeds.
exotic glen
if you want difficult, play outlaw
civic palm
Hey I never said PB was better now, it's just a little disappointing in BfA, though it being the entirely passive talent option, I do want it to be the least DPS of the thre.
marsh fjord
I mean bm hunter is freaking easy lol
exotic glen
yeah sin is close to that
vestal wren
how would you fix pb on beta
exotic glen
in PvE, it is
vestal wren
i think increasing the impact would be stupid
vestal wren
as this seems to be what ppl say
strange python
fix it by deleting it
vestal wren
"make it do 3 times its damage or more"
civic palm
Nah.
It feels like it should do a little more damage but again, it's the passive option and we saw what PB did in Legion.
vestal wren
my argument is that the base spec can have higher numbers with pb beeing low impact
civic palm
That's the last thing I want.
vestal wren
and logs and rotational mistakes become a issue rather then cba bc. pb decides your damage
civic palm
Yerp.
vestal wren
its also probably not designed to be a pure aoe choice
so it might be tuned lower then pure aoe talents
civic palm
Yeah it's the catch-all passive.
vestal wren
but this is exactly the point it gives a bad feedback loop
civic palm
Can't win AoE, ST, or cleave.
vestal wren
as on live you had a proc on a pac and it was OMG I AM GOD
civic palm
THREE IN A ROW FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUU
vestal wren
and on beta you are like: oh ye that is a bit more damage
vestal wren
i would need to run a simulation to know its impact tbh
civic palm
Seeing it so low feels bad though. People will have to get over it O _O
vestal wren
idk i still feel its more about perception
civic palm
I've done ~100 dungeons at this point and it just sits at ~5%. When I was at 30% mastery and 40% mastery with 7% more crit.
vestal wren
you expect a reward for random proc and the reward is low
vestal wren
i like crimson in m+
civic palm
ye
vestal wren
however i might first need to look how well the beta apl is :/
vestal wren
weak/lorentz did a bit of work there but i am not sure how optimized it is
civic palm
Sure.
exotic glen
fuu just make the apl play cloak and hb + multipliers and make the targets like 10 dummies with 50k hp
cant wait for people to see like 1 mil dps on sims
civic palm
Staaaaaaph 😛
vestal wren
na i prefere real data over cheeseroni
civic palm
yaButMemes
vestal wren
to see how fucked our aoe is
civic palm
not fucked from what I have seen, but others do burst much better
civic palm
Ye
exotic glen
does sub even have aoe
strange python
it was fun copying over a rogue and doing lfr with tier 21 boosted to 325 ilvl 😄
vestal wren
with what we have atm we have not much optimization for aoe to do
only probably hard to optimize is secret techniques, but ye well its secret
not sure how outlaw apl is
but iirc there was noone doing work on that
vestal wren
i am not in charge to give out ranks
i know lorentz did some tc for rtb and a bit apl work but not a lot
vestal wren
i think he is
civic palm
I dunnoooo
exotic glen
not afaik?