and yeah venom rush is currently a crap talent
#assassination
fleet whale
both that and blindside are trap talents
they could perhaps buff the duration of the shoulder talent as well
civic palm
I do think MA being 50% / 6 seconds is fine.
Blizzard.
Though that's probably an issue later on.
When people have good crit.
stark heart
tbf I don't think assassination is in that bad of a spot on beta right now
As like level 50 character it's fine
viscid helm
shrewd night
rugged wren
What talents do you guys use atm in BFA @ tier 15 and 90? EP and Exsan?
stark heart
EP/TB for dungeons
civic palm
Agreed.
Until they do something with VR and Blindside, those are strong options.
Though I think EX is still quite strong.
Even with crap (~25%) crit.
stark heart
I just don't like Exs on multiple targets because it already makes refreshing bleeds faster
civic palm
Sure.
stark heart
and not like on aoe that row matters anyway
so I'd rather make my life a bit easier ๐
civic palm
I feel like some talent choices are going to be poor regardless, and the NRG from EX allows for higher RUP targets.
and with the +AGI rupture traits > _>
I wanna rupture.
stark heart
I'd just take subtr and multi garrote, that gives enough energy to make rups rolling
Garrote DPE is high
stark heart
I would want NS just for move speed
civic palm
Will probably run Garrote CP, Rup AGI x2 traits.
civic palm
I brought up Iron Wire after the first few waves, seems crazy.
Especially considering there is no Garrote reset there anymore.
stark heart
not like garrote heavily needs resets with 6 sec cd
civic palm
Not at all.
stark heart
but iron wire works when it is needed most - on pull
civic palm
and every time, no CD.
civic palm
Also, triple silence is still bonkers.
stark heart
yeah triple silence that is 8 seconds long
seems amazingly good
๐
think they'll nerf it
civic palm
Hey the tank takes no damage for a while, seems fine.
stark heart
eventually
civic palm
Nah.
stark heart
to 5-6 seconds
stark heart
it is but it seems like too good imo
civic palm
Also helps with tanks that are not great and the healer has aggro.
Some reduction is nice.
stark heart
not like tank takes no damage but you do help quite a bit
civic palm
I mean, the silence to group pulls is the strong bit IMO.
stark heart
I mean on pack of 3 mobs it's almost like demo shout or whatnot
civic palm
People lost some tools this expansion.
civic palm
Nah, duration if anything.
Nothing else they can touch there really.
Isn't there another Garrote trait?
stark heart
it is already shorter in pvp
civic palm
Not a CP one.
civic palm
Yeah traits you butt ๐
stark heart
there is one that gives mutilate crit after garrote iirc
nothing else related to it that I can recall
but I didn't look closely into azerite so there very well might be
civic palm
Right the MUT crit one.
Barf.
That's all there was, two for Garrote.
CP and MUT Crit.
Something like 6% crit.
civic palm
Hm?
stark heart
it was +1 cp and something else
civic palm
+2 CP
stark heart
that's not cool
I wanna mass garrote but that trait blocks it
well ST trait then I guess
civic palm
The obvious boss implications though.
stark heart
higher ramp up tho
stark heart
๐ค
I mean faster
if it grants +2 cp you garrote - mut - rup and online on the target already
stark heart
I am prepared
civic palm
and you Vanish Garrote for 3CP as well.
stark heart
what I am not prepared is to have 6 sets
civic palm
of course.
stark heart
rip bag space
civic palm
Though ATM it seems to be generating 5CP, which is more than likely a bug due to that not making any sense;
or copies of that trait stacking.
Which I do not think should happen.
stark heart
right, trait stacking
nah they actually should be additive
that's funny if you can have 2 of them
that would be awesome
civic palm
Can have three.
civic palm
Gonna need some stealth in there, but sure.
stark heart
how that trait is called?
civic palm
I am looking through my offtopic posts for it.
stark heart
found it
+2 cp and flat damage
lol flying daggers as azerite trait
dammit assa traits are actually just boring passives ๐ฆ
civic palm
and the +AGI rupture trait will probably change our AoE target numbers.
stark heart
(or in this case spec specific)
civic palm
I've looked at basically no other classes in regards of traits.
Mostly due to not caring due to not having the M+/Raid traits yet.
stark heart
2% chance to return 4 CP for outlaw lol
civic palm
noty
stark heart
there are pvp traits?
civic palm
talents^
stark heart
yeah it's honor talent in legion
so it's obvious AoE choice
and then there are obvious ST choices
dungeon gear swapping all day
๐
civic palm
hey this stuff is blue now, nice
Where is this damage being applied?
on hit or on DoT?
stark heart
out of all traits only outlaw lego bracers reused and backstab extending SoD seems interesting
civic palm
fatStacks
stark heart
like gameplay changing level
civic palm
Sure.
shrewd pine
is there list of the azerite powers somewhere? or I have to go through them ingame?
stark heart
so they said azerite is gonna fill the gap of sets/legos/artifact and they don't
classic
shrewd pine
cheers
stark heart
We don't have M+ or Raid traits yet.
you do, people do mythic dungeons now on beta and traits are from there
m+ is just ilvl of pieces not effects
civic palm
Last I checked they were not turned on.
I've not been active for a couple of weeks now.
and while I can see the traits being the same as the normal and heroic gear, that's kinda shitty for pushing M+ as a primary playstyle.
shrewd pine
m+ azerite will 99% be same as mythic normal gear except scaled up with ilvl
stark heart
so far I don't see azerite traits being what Blizz stated them to be
stark heart
maybe we will see more interesting effects later but I doubt that
civic palm
Again, haven't seen them all, but it's not... great yet.
shrewd pine
They wont be replacement for sets etc, but they wont be completely useless too
civic palm
Still feels like starter stuff though, considering the beginning of the expansion.
Feels better than being fucking locked into tier slots though.
shrewd pine
yea, I mean when you look at this we didnt even have sets in EN
stark heart
it's like I am still leveling and waiting for some buttons to come online
civic palm
Yeah.
shrewd pine
I feel like they overhyped it
shrewd pine
they promised something they wont deliver and now they are getting shit for it
they overhyped azerite traits
civic palm
Again, we haven't seen them all.
shrewd pine
as being the big thing that will fix everything
civic palm
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
I 120% doubt that there will be buttons on them though.
I'd like to see them soon though.
stark heart
I think we have seen decent amount of them to be skeptical
shrewd pine
I know we havent and thats I'm not shouting "ITS FUCKING SHIT" so far
civic palm
Really soon O _O
shrewd pine
but what I've seen doesnt exactly fill me with hope either
but if blizz can prove me wrong and actually make it the thing they hyped it up to be, Ill be only happy
civic palm
I've seen plenty of beginner level stuff that what I've seen so far makes me feel like it's just beginner shit.
But like I said, need to see more O _O
Sooner rather than later.
stark heart
if I learned one thing from 2 beta cycles is to not expect much
civic palm
Yeah I have always been of the mind that we will see where things end up.
stark heart
I mean expect that it's not gonna happen or gonna be poor
civic palm
It's fine to comment on things on the way, but some people are fucking EXPLODING over some shit they haven't even seen the middle of.
rugged wren
dang it EP is better in dmg but damn its such a shame blindside aint good enough I love the extra button and the need to react to the proc.. makes the gameplay much more fun :S
civic palm
Blindside will probably be fine.
shrewd pine
Yea I agree with that Mizerok, some people are over reacting but I think it's fair to be sceptical about the system.
civic palm
People lost their minds over the idea that they would not be able to respect their AA armor.
After Blizzard stated you would be able to.
O _O"
shrewd pine
tbf blizzard did originally say you wont be able to respec and you'll have to get extra gear for different traits
after people exploded about it they brought the respec dude up
civic palm
Yeah but that was a looooooooong time ago, well before Alpha.
and you are still gonna need 2-4 sets of gear.
"sets"
rugged wren
Sjeez I just got the Shrouded Suffocation trait from Azerite damn that thing is strong!! 5cp opener if you garrote from stealth
shrewd pine
that is correct and the information about respec availability didnt come in till beta
which is fair, its like now you have aoe / st / defensive sets
which is good and adds a bit to gameplay and I dont mind it
civic palm
Yeah.
civic palm
Mmmmmmm, maybe.
shrewd pine
even tho I would argue fuck that, and revert it to old school
civic palm
I do think that they want there to be some permanence to the choices on gear.
and that gear is going to drop A LOT outside of raids.
The animation for selecting a trait is ๐ ๐ ๐
shrewd pine
Gonna be about the same as in legion except u wont be locked in a lot of slots
civic palm
Yep.
That lack of locking is gonna be sexy.
Not to mention there's this half-step to getting entire sets of gear for aoe/st/etc.
and just getting the AA pieces.
shrewd pine
Ye, tbf i dislike removal or sets. Being "locked" in 4 slots is fine but I welcome the freeing up of slots by removing legos
civic palm
Even the fucking, gear wardrobe thing works well for just reminding yourself what you picked on gear.
If you focused any at all anyway.
๐ BED ๐ TIME ๐
๐
shrewd pine
Gngn
shrewd night
I absolutely dont like that sets are being removed, but that might be my rosetinted glasses always enjoying setbonuses.
warm parcel
I just recall a nerf to it at some point
rugged wren
is Leeching poison bugged?? cant apply it anymore nor do I see any heals recieved from it in combat logs
shrewd night
Whadya mean bugged
rugged wren
Normally you get a extra abillity to apply leeching poison to blades but I dont have the ability anymore so I thought maybe its a passive now as soon as you apply deadly poison or wound poison. But looking in the combat log I dont see any leeching heals from it
shrewd night
Maybe uh
rugged wren
nor do I have 10% leech in my character screen
shrewd night
If you have it specced, its with the other poisons in your spellbook
rugged wren
its not anymore
shrewd night
Well, you fucked up then. Dont know what to tell ya.
shrewd night
Since you didnt mention bfa, Im just going off the wilf assumption that this is live
But ๐คท
Now I dont know anymore
shrewd night
midnight belfry
It is built into deadly/wound poison now
shrewd night
It is, but there is a bug apparantly where it doesnt apply the healing
From what I can tell from 2 seconds of googling
Nah, not throwing shade or anything
But its what I can find
SO you may have the same bug
one out of many bug reports
steep obsidian
๐
stark heart
@warm parcel it was nerfed for pvp
fast wyvern
assassination is typically the strongest at the start of each expansion correct?
steep obsidian
generally it has been the spec that scaled badly with gear and works without much gear who knows about bfa though
dire spoke
simming 2.3 with 977 ain't fun <_ <
solar willow
What would u want to sim them
viscid helm
Should play alacrity and not trashTB
viscid helm
:hypers:
steep obsidian
meme that if you want but i gonna miss the claok cdr in bfa ๐ฆ
reminds me of soo where it was like 30 secs with the trinket and silly
spring sandal
How is assassination in m+ compared to other specs on live? And how is it looking for BFA?
dusky fulcrum
id tell you how bfa is looking if i could get through the fucking undercity scenario
shrewd night
Fake connor is writing
spring sandal
I've only managed to get through it on one toon (DH)
strange python
๐ค
dusky fulcrum
last night i got my mage and DK through it, still not been lucky enough on the rogue
and its been 3 and a half weeks of beta for me
so it took its time
spring sandal
Bugged?
dusky fulcrum
its super bugged
the game waits for triggers between each stage, so if it gets stuck u cannot unstuck it
if they just implemented a chat dialogue to "keep going" it wouldnt stuck
๐
basically the bigger your group is in the scenario, the higher chance it bugs
and when it does, u cannot do anything else but to leave grp and restart
strange python
On live, assuming high keys, sin is fine, sub is better, but sin is still brought to some dungeons like upper kara since sin is better at killing bosses. On beta, it's subjective, also there is no m+ in beta yet ๐
dusky fulcrum
my biggest concern atm is exactly that, no m+ on beta yet and still so hard to get ppl past the fuking scenario so u cant have much testing done
dusky fulcrum
and lets not forget prot warriors 2 shotting casters in open world pvp
dont forget to team up with atleast one and u will get assasin 15% dmg buff easy peasy
solemn turtle
is leeching posion bugged on beta?
stark heart
how?
solemn turtle
it says its a passive and there is no way to apply it
dusky fulcrum
๐
blizz realised its not logical to have it share useage with wound poison/mind numb
and crip for that matter
stark heart
wound is lethal, leeching was non-lethal
dusky fulcrum
right, i guess playing with the pvp talent confused me
carmine valve
hI
restive inlet
Yo, someone told me the other day that you could break a chain of Sargeras on Argus mythic with Shadowmeld. Sounds wrong to me, but did any of you try?
idle fulcrum
!relic
jovial cedar
Hi guys, is there a hard/soft cap on crit for us?
wise frigate
No.
exotic glen
100% is hard cap
jovial cedar
๐
ok thanks
another question, do you know if the Arcway/CoS set proc is valuable?
strange python
The haste proc? No, haste isn't very good for sin rogue.
exotic glen
thats mastery connor
jovial cedar
I was meaning the set with mastery proc
strange python
๐ I was thinking of the chrono shard
novel girder
hello
should I always rupture/envenom with 5 CP or 4 CP is good enough?
I mean, 4 CP I do 1 more mutilate?
havent played rogue in legion, a lot has changed
exotic glen
use finishers on 4+
novel girder
kk that hasnt changed than, thanks bro
tranquil birch
@Shizum well vanish definitely breaks so I would not be suprised if meld does as well
cold rampart
!singuide
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
cold rampart
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
rare river
carmine valve
Hello the guide state "Do i need to have both rupture and garrote on the target to gain energy from Venomous Wounds?
No, itโs enough to have either one." but do I get more energy if I have both Garrote and Rupture on same target?
lean hill
You want them both up a close to 100% as you can
keen inlet
#NotAllBleedTicks
rain pewter
eww rogues
echo estuary
an imposter!
shrewd night
An imposter indeed
jovial kite
We are frens so its coo
delicate girder
What is considered as poison damage ?
I mean, when I use toxic blade, wich spells are going to do more damage ?
shrewd night
Wowhead lists them all
jovial kite
Cant deny
jovial kite
rain pewter
with 988 wep and 950 shoulders ๐ค
rain pewter
come to swe i fix
bring @warm parcel ster the memester and @viscid helm toxboy aswell
jovial kite
swedenn meatfest when
rain pewter
dis summer ezpoz
echo estuary
i like kottbullar can i come
blissful moss
Can anyone detail what the best opener is for packs in myth+ with shoulders?
Is it garrote, envenom, then spam fok? Or garrote, envenom, fok, envenom, fok, etc?
marble hemlock
you dont use garrote on trash
strange python
its nice for venomous and keep your rotation fluid
marble hemlock
no. just no.
unless theres a high-priority target that needs more damage than the rest of the pack, there is no reason whatsoever to ever use garrote on m+ trash
marble hemlock
@blissful moss you generally should keep CP form the previous pack and open with envenom, fok, rupture, fok, rupture
that way you get the envenom and VP buff as soon as possible, while also ramping up your energy sustain for the pull
strange python
ahh yeah i try to do that, but then whats your opener if you dont have 5
marble hemlock
fok envenom fok rupture fok rupture
you play shoulders to have the easy ramp-up, and maybe vanish for a bomb proc
strange python
#thoughtsandprayersforpoisonbomb
fallen sandal
hi, when you get your 3rd vendetta back, do you keep it to match with vanish or you use it on cd ?
exotic glen
use it on cd, hold vanish until next vendetta
haughty lily
is it always toxic blade then kings blade, or is it better to toxic blade envenom then kingsblade when you have so many combo points
onyx sigil
Well, you don't want to waste CPs to do TB > KB. Ideally you already have an Env buff rolling and TB > KB gives you 4+ CP to Env again.
dire spoke
tfw you need to FoK four times on four targets to get 4CP 
fleet whale
So Golganneth's is really powerful on beta, not that it matter much
civic palm
aka not scaled correctly.
There are some other old trinkets that do not scale correctly as well.
Like, item level 56 trinkets.
fleet whale
I mean it's probably overtuned yeah but it's not like it's doing Legion damage with the squish lol
civic palm
Stuff liiiiiiiiiike; https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/450525220139171841/unknown.png
Was a thing last patch.
Scaling.
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
fleet whale
in any case though, I thought my char played after being copied onto the beta
civic palm
?
fleet whale
played fine, I meant to say
civic palm
oh
Sure.
Yeah things are fine.
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
Will be different at level cap with stats being scaled more harshly though.
fleet whale
yeah, but with raiding gear again the spec will play better
that was what I kind of wanted to see after the copy
civic palm
Nah, I don't think you will have anywhere near the same stats @ 120 as you do @ 110.
Maybe in a year.
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
fleet whale
it took nearly that long to get where I am now in legion lol
civic palm
Unless ya do.
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
hehehe
Will copy my toon in a second and see where my stats are, guessing much higher than @ 120.
fleet whale
yeah, mastery was lower, but that was a given
crit, vers, and haste were roughly the same
fleet whale
that's cause it scales with bleeds now, stat would be extremely broken if it scaled up the way it did during legion
civic palm
Of course.
fleet whale
I actually think sub needs a mastery change now because of it, they are both the same except sin's will affect more stuff in BFA
wise frigate
I dunno, could just be posting for the memes.
radiant ibex
sry, wrong
strange python
someone told me vanish will break argus chains (obviously i would rather use it offensively) is that true?
but if i get in a tight spot, is that viable
spare cloud
Yes
fiery nest
Just sprint 
ornate ingot
So i'm trying to get my rotation down and on off times when vanish isn't up but vendetta is what is the combo there?
spare flame
Hey can anyone give me some insight on food? Is mastery food better then agility at very high gear levels
?
dire spoke
@ornate ingot *vend > tb > kb like on pull
@spare flame depends on personal stat-weights - vers food can most likely be best aswell
ornate ingot
so save vendetta for vanish?
plain thistle
ornate ingot
right
dire spoke
I'm sorry, typo ... vend > tb > kb ... if vanish is on CD
civic palm
If you can, VEN > TB > ENV > KB nets larger results on KB. If you can get that TB > ENV > KB during the normal combat rotation, larger results.
spare flame
@dire spoke how would one check such a thing?
dire spoke
ornate ingot
anyone know a good weak aura for combo points?
my weak aura is good for everything except cp count
civic palm
Yeah lots of options O _O"
still pewter
Whos excited to go back to using cof in prepatch ๐
still pewter
artifact traits disabled? 2min cd vendetta base
fleet whale
GO is currently overtuned in beta, or it's just proccing a carp tone
civic palm
So nothing then, excellent.
fleet whale
it's been months
still pewter
not more than 30days
fleet whale
And besides it's pre-patch... won't matter much either way
plus it's probably better to NOT use CoF on pre-patch... that way vendetta and vanish will always have same cd
civic palm
GO will have the AGI scaling reduced, we don't not use CoF because Vendetta feels nice at a lower CD.
fleet whale
pantheon
still pewter
"we"
exotic glen
wtf
fleet whale
yeah, it's kind of stupid idk it's used for Golganneth's
fleet whale
could use GV?
exotic glen
or panth trinket
civic palm
I'd rather, but I don't think GO conflicts with anything.
and people went with that.
Other than the other trinket, with almost the same name.
But people would rather die than use that trinket, sooo.
fleet whale
what's that other trinket, Aman'thul's?
exotic glen
wonder if that will be good lol
probably will
i hope stat sticks will be op
mine will be bis
dire spoke
civic palm
Yeah Amanthuls Vision and Amanthuls... the healing one.
fleet whale
eonar's?
civic palm
No lego.
still pewter
Amanthuls Wisdom
fleet whale
I'm going to be honest, the main thing i'll miss from the artifact is the vial defensive
civic palm
Yerp.
exotic glen
balanced blades imo
fleet whale
It's funny cause I remember many forums complaining about how awful that trait was when it was first revealed because it gave no damage lol
exotic glen
have fun getting only 2 combo points per mut
civic palm
BB is also gnarly, but crit is so low @ 120 that it feels... whatever.
fleet whale
honestly I have like 34% crit on my copied char and I really don't feel the loss of bb
maybe blizz could add like 10% extra crit on mut but I doubt they will
exotic glen
no way we're gonna start an expac with 34% crit
fleet whale
we'll eventually get there though
exotic glen
@civic palm need a music recommendation friendo
civic palm
What kinda music buddo?
exotic glen
the stuff i was linking yesterday
civic palm
People were linking a bunch, genre?
exotic glen
idk the name of genre
exotic glen
but i linked lazy eye and
civic palm
ooo
exotic glen
black submarines
exotic glen
uh
civic palm
exotic glen
i know seven nation army lmao
civic palm
I AM NOT IN YOUR MIND FUCKER
exotic glen
lmao
civic palm
Just gonna smash some shit in #off-topic
exotic glen
hit me my dude
midnight vapor
Do i go subterfuge or nightstalker with mantle
civic palm
Whatever sims best for you with your current gear.
midnight vapor
With nightstalker how would i be using my vanishes then? Envenom if theres toxic blade up, otherwise rupture
or just always envenom
exotic glen
always envenom
civic palm
If you have Mantle, you always ENV from Vanish with Nightstalker.
civic palm
There are some edge cases for Rupture but they're not important enough.
dire spoke
What the guide says
fleet whale
Looks like vendetta only triggers a 1 sec GCD now on beta (used to be 1.5 seconds)
dire spoke
literally just thought vend is broken on beta but realized the trait made the sound
civic palm
Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink Shink
dire spoke
Yes
zinc valley
okay what are our bis
dire spoke
You can visit herodamage.com for builds and setups
devout temple
Which spec is looking best
jovial kite
Arms
viscid helm
None
devout temple
damn
dire spoke
Warlock got a fiew new cool animations
civic palm
Very
shrewd night
Still looking for that sin feedback post and more adjustments. Each build just intensifying the
viscid helm
There isnt going to be one
shrewd night
Not even sure if rogue is going to be all that fun with the hits to our survivability tbh
jovial kite
apm is shit
civic palm
Because warriors were shit last expansion :3
jovial kite
It feels like shit
shrewd night
'youre invincible - every 6 minutes'
stark heart
Surv taken a hit and still awesome tho
jovial kite
@civic palm warr was decent in wod
shrewd night
Warrior is always decent though, execute 2 stronk
jovial kite
shrewd night
Ssssssh, we dont want to trigger Luke
jovial kite
blizzard should just delete 1/3 of the specs or classes
Its apparent they have no time to test/fix/innovate half of the specs
and just fix those with most vocal playerbase
stark heart
they are afraid to cut anything
jovial kite
Its a sad fact that all rogue players are cucks anyways
So we never get seen from the masses
shrewd night
jovial kite
they release rushed out shit all the time
civic palm
hmmm
shrewd night
'Hey, Im fucking your favorite spec, whatchu gon do about it, dweeb'
'n-n-n-n-othing'
jovial kite
Just purge 1/3 of the specs maybe aomething good might come out
honestly looking at warrior in beta
Makes me contemplate my small rogue fucking eggplant
"We nerfing cof bois"
Warriors collectively qq
"NVM IT WAS A PRANK BRO"
we need flowi as sb or despot so he could organize our qq events
All the current mods like the spec as is / has no real motivation to change things
all they wanna do is babysit moderate
jovial kite
thats why i included and or babysit moderate 
viscid helm
I mean 80% of the mods dont even play
jovial kite
the community should be the driving force for getting heard / getting changes
foggy lotus
question ::: where is best place to find BIS gear thats not legendary or comes from raid?
jovial kite
Now were just a sad fucking safespace for snowflakes
stark heart
no changes doesn't mean you haven't been heard
just that devs got no time for rogues
viscid helm
Ye means they just dont care
stark heart
or feel like there are specs in a more dire state than we are
viscid helm
viscid helm
Small indie company btw
viscid helm
1 person working on 6 classes
foggy lotus
sorry ive seen places that says bis but it only list the legendary or tier peices but nothing else just wondering where best place to find BIS is
shrewd night
Raids
jovial kite
its evident that if they know of issues they prioritize those that are widely known
Aka fok bug
shrewd night
Mythic+ high keys
civic palm
The list of bugs is endless, why focus on bugs that no one is abusing? O _O
foggy lotus
yea like what doungen gear peices are bis so i need to farm for this peice of gear ... where do i find that info at?
jovial kite
the list is endless why focus on spec nobody gives a shit outside of this dead inwards community
vs every qq warrior ever
shrewd night
No such thing as bislists because of titanforging, generally raids and highkeys are where you find the gear
Then after shit drops, you sim yourself
Ez
foggy lotus
assasination rogue is dead?
viscid helm
Yes
jovial kite
we as a community are erectile disfunct
civic palm
mmm, nah
jovial kite
yes sorry we have no balls at all
foggy lotus
only asking cause it hard for me to learn things and remeber cause of an accident and i can only learn 1 spec and stick with it cause i cant swap like other people and ive only played assasination rogue .. would i need to quit it to play something else for expansion or is it ok and just messing with me?
shrewd night
Dawg, you play what you find fun
civic palm
Maybe we should get crybabies then.
grim skiff
How's assassination looking for pvp?
jovial kite
Dont need to think too much
@foggy lotus
@civic palm Exactly
low apm, low learning curve, not much to think about, assa might suit you great
foggy lotus
didnt know if there was a list of assasination gear is really good if can get it to forge at X i lvl if not it not good or do i just have to look at doungen loot and guess till it drops
jovial kite
you can always sim gear at raidbots.com
grim skiff
Are bleeds much better with the new mastery
shrewd night
No such thing outside trinkets. As I mentioned earlier, sim yourself after drops to see if its an upgrade.
Basicly find your statweights, follow them while gearing until you reach raids and high keys, then specialize into certain trinkets and gearing strategies.
foggy lotus
i do i just know some people go and farm for an item from a mythic doungen cause its best and i didnt know how to find what items i needed to farm in my free time
thank yall
also with new expansion is the poison build still going to be ok or is there a different build people thing is going to be best just asking so i can have a goal to work towards or is it hectik on expansion and just try to figure it out? this will be my 1st expansion of wow im going into i just been playing for a year now
shrewd night
Nobody knows what is going to turn out better until the expansion hits.
foggy lotus
ohh ok thank you
dire spoke
๐
strange python
so i just boosted my sin rogue and i got rid of the action bar spells can someone find the order that its in when you first boost one?
jovial kite
stark heart
stark heart
Why do you care?
shrewd night
And if its critical that it stays in that order, boost another rogue to make sure 
civic palm
O _O
dire spoke
Mutilate - Envenom - Rupture
And you're good for BfA
if you're fancy put Garrote on Shift3, but only filthy keybinder do that
civic palm
haha
stark heart
hey how about our good boy Blindside
shrewd night
Blindside is only good when he gets buff enough to hit my homies hard
prime void
Zempai โค
dire spoke
Miz 
jovial cedar
Hi, guys, question about rupture, is it ok to use Rupture at 4cp or only at 5? and if not why?
jovial cedar
yes thats what I was checking, but heard someone say that rupture should always be used at 4cp
sry at 5 I mean
solid nova
4+ for finishers mate
jovial cedar
and since there is no damage increase but only duration that why I was skeptical about that
yes right
solid nova
Yeah it used to be damage modified by CPs but its been changed for quite a while now
jovial cedar
maybe thats why they said so
alright thanks ๐
have a nice day/night wherever you are ๐
solid nova
You too fam, 8:30am ๐
jovial cedar
10:30 not so far from you haha ๐
frozen pecan
09:30 ๐ฎ
jovial cedar
๐ have a good day then Europeans
viscid helm
jovial cedar
haha hang in there fam ๐
solid nova
Keybinds are personal preference, there's no defined set order mate
http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
Read this, understand it. Then literally its the case of opening the spellbook and putting abilities in an order thats comfortable to you .
dire spoke
here is mine https://snag.gy/WUtBaL.jpg
lost horizon
๐คข
civic palm
my keybindings
solid nova
Middle finger on W, thumb on alt, index finger on 4
zealous dew
and if you have to strafe right ?
solid nova
Middle finger on D instead of W
zealous dew
middle on 4
civic palm
Considering that trinket, you are not moving when you are hitting it.
zealous dew
or can't
civic palm
But are planted with a heal.
zealous dew
aye
zealous dew
uttery complicated lol
solid nova
Somethings gotta add complexity to healing
zealous dew
haha
civic palm
It was fast enough in TBC.
on a more serious note.
I moved from alt binding almost entirely.
civic palm
I find 4 much more easy to smash.
civic palm
That's a fun button to fat-finger.
`
I thought the function keys were a ways away as well for a while.
Don't press them that much though.
solid nova
Ive got pots/flask/food on F keys
civic palm
and they are close enough to the number line that it was easy enough to abuse the old Vanish~>ENV bug.
solid nova
I have cloak on T as well ๐
civic palm
Long story short, bind your buttons if you want/need to.
solid nova
Exactamondo
civic palm
Might take some time getting used to them.
But once you have a system (eg. R is for spammed AoE ability) you won't forget them.
Usually.
solid nova
Once its ingrained into the muscle memory
civic palm
Make them tiny and forget about them.
zealous dew
i have everything on mouse ๐
civic palm
uhhuh
brisk pasture
Hey! I*m a mythic raid leader trying to compile a document for my raiders on how they can improve, we litterally just created the guild and went 5/11 on first raid, is there any good assassination rogue who would be available for me to run a log by? We only have one rogue in the raid, but wowanalyzer is outdated, and my limited knowledge about rogues is putting me at a halt I'm afraid
brisk pasture
alright, I will do that, the ravenholt, yes?
quartz depot
he's also refreshing rupture a lot during toxic blade/kingsbane, which is no bueno
dire spoke
Yes, other from that it's fight specific timings of cooldowns - like holding vanish for 30% on short fights
If he's near sim dps which could be possible there is not soo much to improve, maybe keep up surge of toxins better while kingsbane and cast more envenom inside toxic blade
Standard issues ๐คท๐ป
brisk pasture
hehe alright, doesn't sound like he has that much to work with then? ๐
dire spoke
You can't tell by parse and I don't know his sim
quartz depot
he could also just be bad at executing the fights
brisk pasture
did you look over the other fights aswell, or just garothi? I'm grateful eitherway, I just need to know what to write here ๐
dire spoke
I only checked openers on 3 fights and went back to garothi
brisk pasture
alright cool, i've linked him to the opener, and copy/pasted the talk here ๐
dire spoke
if he doesn't get the rotation down on braindead single target there is no use checking other bosses I'm afraid
๐
brisk pasture
aye aye ^^
thank a bunch for responding to me, it really makes my job a lot easier ๐
dire spoke
@brisk pasture here's an image of the important uptimes and casts I mentioned https://snag.gy/CRmPKj.jpg
brisk pasture
one sec, will find someone better to compare with
yeah, his kingsbane look alirght, yes? envenom whjen comparing seems like it should be up more tho
dire spoke
You cast kingsbane on CD so yeah, maybe missing a cast there I can't tell
Envenom could be better but depending on crit you can't do much about that maybe
brisk pasture
yeah alright, thanks a lot again ๐
dire spoke
I'm guessing envenom misses a bit of uptime due to the bad/many rupture casts
hope I didn't mess anything up, best wishes
brisk pasture
we appreciate it ๐
frail gate
best race for bfa?
forest acorn
yes
dire spoke
come back in 2 month
royal lantern
the answer is always pandaren
solid hedge
is it better to delay toxic blade to the last 9 secs of kingsbane always or just use it on cd?
forest acorn
on cd
shrewd pine
max 5 sec delay
rugged wren
Guys maybe a silly question (regards both BFA Beta and live) but I really have no clue xD Exsanguinate does it also effects multiple targets effected by rupture/garrote and in BFA Crimson Tempest.
strange python
Exsanguinate only affects one target
rugged wren
ke thnx for the info sucks was hoping it would effect Crimson Tempest aswell for some sick AoE's
strange python
Crimson Tempest is pretty powerful on its own. You can also buff it with nightstalker
Although Exsang is a shit talent on beta so maybe a change like that would make it viable.
frozen pecan
do u use boots?
lean hill
Dont think it matters much on heroic, can probably pop it
frozen pecan
oh heroic lul
manic vigil
So because you deem the content irrelevant he's not getting proper advice? 
Why answer at all then
exotic glen
you can use kingsbane as well?
wise frigate
Been a while since I've done Kin but I'm pretty sure I just do the standard opener without Vend or Vanish. Both come up right after the Ruiner into first add.
exotic glen
aye listen to birbie
naive cypress
I thought KB was a bit tight?
naive cypress
Aight
wise frigate
Just make sure you don't leave boss early right after Ruiner. He has a few extra seconds you can be getting DP applications to get that CD up.
lean hill
Its heroic, the adds get blown up super quickly so yes its irrelevant to hold cooldowns or not
wise frigate
Depends on your group. If heroic is difficult (I know, it can happen), it's still worth it to save.
frozen pecan
@manic vigil yes
alpine pilot
Question about vanish usage; I was told to spam envenom during vanish and vendetta, would using a 4 or 5 cp rupture during the first gcd of vanish, then using 3 envenoms yield more damage than just using 4 envenoms and no empowered rupture? Or is using only envenom during vendetta and vanish only a thing if you have toxic blade applied beforehand?
And on that note, would u TB then vanish and vendetta? Or vanish and vendetta THEN use TB?
strange python
If you have the legendary shoulders, you should vanish > envenom
alpine pilot
Sorry if this is a dumb question
strange python
if you don't, then what you do after vanish doesn't really matter
alpine pilot
Oh okay, the ravenholdt guide tells me to only do vanish and envenom only if I have TB tho
This is for having the mantle
If not it says to rupture then envenom, with the mantle ofc
strange python
Yeah you should vendetta > tb > vanish > envenom > mut > envenom > mut > envenom
strange python
yeah I can see how he/she could interpret that
it just means to save toxic blade for vanish
alpine pilot
I'm asking about if I don't have TB ready
strange python
your tb should be ready
alpine pilot
Sorry
strange python
you don't vanish without tb
alpine pilot
Uhh
strange python
if you have 5 or 7 vendetta relics then it lines up nicely
exotic glen
1 2 or 3?
exotic glen
2 monkaS
alpine pilot
Really?
strange python
yep
alpine pilot
Lool
exotic glen
yes
strange python
lookie here
alpine pilot
That's y I'm asking
exotic glen
anyways what should happen is that you save vanish for your vendetta and toxic blade
use all three together
alpine pilot
Thanks
strange python
nah they were following the guide
either that, or it's just really confusing and I quote: "โข Use Vanish to empower your next ability via Nightstalker. If you have Mantle of the Master assassin and Toxic Blade, you cast Envenom, otherwise go with Rupture."
wise frigate
Depends. Are you using Mantle and TB? Or not?
First one is Envenom, second one is Rupture.
strange python
yeah, with mantle and tb
exotic glen
If you have Mantle of the Master assassin and Toxic Blade, you cast Envenom
wise frigate
Then Envenom, exactly what the guide says.
wise frigate
IE like Bleedybois will Vanish + Rupture.
strange python
gotcha, thanks!
serene basin
๐ฅ
slow stag
is it possible to skip scenario in bfa beta?
exotic glen
maybe when you have done it once like it was with legion intro quest
deep beacon
Would you guys use a 930 memento of angerba of a 905 eye of command. They sim very close. I think memento might be 2k or so higher but just was wondering personal preference.
deep beacon
Cool hopefully will get argus trinket soon
devout temple
IS rogue still the most surviable melee dps in bfa?
fleet whale
It's probably still good, even after some of the nerfs
devout temple
but the best?
fleet whale
I don't know much about other classes to say if it's the "best" or not. Note that a lot of specs lost some survivalbility as well due to losing artifacts
lean hill
No one can say what is the best about anything in bfa because it's not released yet
Ask in like 3 months
dire spoke
@devout temple you're asking best/strongest/most questions since month, when do you realize that nobody can answer them 8|
personal opinions on untuned stuff do not provide numbers and results
exotic glen
you cant definitively say "the best" because survival kits highly depend on the fight
keen remnant
The wording of guide lead me to believe if you had mantle and TB active I should ENV otherwise (can be mantle and no TB active) rupture
btw english isn't my main
wise frigate
You are correct.
keen remnant
which scares me more how I can parse 90%+ doing wrong
wise frigate
Mantle and TB = Envenom. Otherwise, Rupture.
You could honestly simplify it and just say Mantle = Envenom. Otherwise = Rupture.
Since if you're running Mantle you're almost always going to be running standard TB poison build.
keen remnant
but someone said with NS you should always ENV
wise frigate
With Mantle, yes.
exotic glen
without mantle, no
wise frigate
You shouldn't be running Mantle without TB is my point. I'd be hard pressed to believe Alacrity or something else sims high with Mantle on.
exotic glen
do you want to take a guess first or
civic palm
Mutilate... clearly > _>"
wise frigate
Cheap Shot obviously.
exotic glen
blind
civic palm
Fizzle a Distract.
keen remnant
Sorry but when I read TB I was thinking on debuff active on target
wise frigate
The point we're making dvd is that if you have Mantle on, just always Envenom. If you don't have mantle on but you're still using NS (IE Exsang bleed build), use Rupture instead.
Well you shouldn't be Vanishing without TB up regardless.
keen remnant
I see
keen remnant
sorry if this is so obvious but to someone new to ass I see no guide telling me to stack cds
TB is used on cd
but no matter
assassin is retard op
civic palm
It mentions not holding CDs other than Vanish.
wise frigate
It is a good point though. It's not really explicitly laid out for people who maybe aren't perceptive.
keen remnant
that the second day in row I see this question here, I was in doubt too
civic palm
Nah, it's implied by the guide. It's just not laid out in a literal fashion.
keen remnant
but can be a problem on interpreting
civic palm
Has been, easily corrected.
The problem is that if we wanna put something specific in the guide about TB, then you have to add the conditions that break that specificity.
keen remnant
ye
drifting cloud
yeah basically since vendetta lasts 20s and tb cd is 25 the cahnce of it coming up during vendetta even when used on cd is basically close to 100%
so you can vendetta wait for tb and then vanish
that would only be bad when it makes you lose another vanish usage
civic palm
or it competes with downtime due to boss mechanics.
SIN is simple enough to play but for some people there's an annoying amount of improvisation required.
keen inlet
Be sure to check out the beta key giveaway we have timing right now in announcements!
eternal storm
jolly merlin
hey guys how do you open on two targets like on dogs? do you just use the ST opener on one boss or rupture both and then continue the opener on one
violet yew
I'm told a rogue on towelies stream is doing mad damage with mop cloak and shoulders. Anyone got a vod?
civic palm
Rupture on both, if they are close enough to maintain then do so, usually not the case though.
If someone is doing "mad damage" with legendaries that are supposed to be deactivated then they don't matter.
exotic glen
no one on towelies stream does damage
civic palm
Not even the man himself, playing P.Pally, at the beginning of an expansion, after pulling an entire dungeon.
Somehow.
violet yew
Was gossip from my discord. Something about mop cloak, shoulders, fok interplay.
exotic glen
was it beta?
violet yew
Yah