i got shoulders/ cindaria belt and just got shadowblade ring -_-
#assassination
severe dune
civic palm
Ring is more-than-likely better, but simming will reveal by how much given the rest of your current gear.
dire spoke
๐
onyx sigil
Belt isn't bad, but most of the time the extra damage above 90% isn't super helpful for actually killing a boss.
exotic glen
it doesnt really do much dmg, making it bad
dire spoke
belt is an add cheese lego
on some bosses you COULD do good parses
but you're not really helpful with it
onyx sigil
It's definitely worse than other legendaries. But since our pull burst can be crazy with PB procs, it does do a quite a bit of damage.
Everything about this spec is "can" as long as we have PB. ๐
drifting cloud
itd assume it prolly sims better than ring just because of how many stats it has
ring is pretty poop
#feelycraft
onyx sigil
If you come across boots or helm, those also sim well for some people. I think bracers take a bit of mastery to take off.
Do sims treat health% effects linearly? As in, bracers are just active for the last 35% of the duration of the sim?
dire spoke
really?
strange python
why alacrity
strange python
who are you talking to
lone junco
pretty sure bracer effect is worth about 5-6% of your overall dps.
(that log analyzer summary can pick it out from a log)
steep orbit
Anyone know if there are any set changes to the Assassin spec for BFA? i cant seem to find anything set in stone
steep orbit
tyvm
lone junco
@steep orbit Dunno what the raid bis will look like, but as with anything, it will likely vary based on the Pyramid traits, 2ndaries, mob count, fight duration. and sim outcomes.
row 100 CT is the new hotness.
spammable aoe bleed.
steep orbit
So Sin is looking promising in BFA
lone junco
currently, in 5mans ive done. it is very good cleave (15s+) and ST boss.
lone junco
fixed, or complete
dire spoke
lmao
lone junco
and no. nothing is ever set.
dire spoke
I thought tier
lone junco
they give you a toy, then smash it, and leave a ghost of the hotness behind.
exotic glen
vers is shit
ember reef
im at 139 percent mastery and 6 percent vers
exotic glen
get more mastery
prime void
Mfw got tagged. Can't find it
prime void
Naw it was noobe
safe matrix
@prime void can you see this โค
rugged blaze
Is crafted belt better than the free leggo ring from argus? I just switched to sin and I only had insignia and the argus ring that were usable
viscid helm
Crafted belt?
fervent beacon
Think he meant boots
slate tulip
@rugged blaze depends what t2 traits You have in your relics but it should be better
rugged blaze
Woops I wasn't awake yet, I ment boots indeed. My t2 traits are not all unlocked yet, been doing all AP WQ's to catch up on my sin weapon (it was rank 1 yesterday, 65 today)
wise frigate
That's me every hour of every day.
strange python
That's me.
rugged blaze
Thing was I was already working so I should have been awake... right?
rain pewter
@gusty kestrel sneaking around in my guild discord EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH?
shrewd night
Can I sneak around in there too pls
mellow agate
Hello, I currently have two Master Assassin traits on my relics, Just recently got a new relic at 940, that has both assassin and alchemist, however at 20 ilvl lower, is it still worth changing the relics to get that third trait?
mellow agate
Thanks!
rain pewter
Dont we all need the alacrity goddesswaitwhut
strange python
!guide
exotic glen
Its in the header
exotic glen
Poison is much easier, especially to gear for
strange python
same playstyle ?
exotic glen
No, not really
silent parcel
If I have 5CP, 20 energy, 20s left on rupture and 4s left on envenom buff, do I wait for Envenom buff to run out before using it again or do I just use ASAP?
silent parcel
Ok so like 2s left on buff?
So I can regen some energy?
Also does anyone know of any good ass rogue that I can compare my logs to?
thorn pasture
There is a section in the guide that shows what you can look for in logs
Check your own and compare with the top rogues
exotic glen
Cut it as close as you feel comfortable with
strange python
can some1 tell me how i can talent vigor ? XD
shrewd night
Pressing the button?
steep obsidian
if its the last few seconds of kingsbane you might want to make sure sot is up though
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
hard to blanket answer for every situation
dire spoke
steep obsidian
if im wrong or giving bad info can ou correct instead of emote me?
warm parcel
warm parcel
I think he thinkings the vigor question
shrewd night
Imagine coming into sin chat
how to vigor
YA SEE YA GOTS TO WAIT UNTIL THE LAST SECOND OF KINGSBANE
steep obsidian
scrolling up is as hard as scrolling down to the bottom obv
exotic glen
@stark heart feel like its better without the 
dire spoke
exotic glen
no anger pupper pls
lone junco
hoary copper
He looks like hes plotting to eat your shoes and poop on your pillow
stark heart
I think you should use it Argonic
zenith quail
howโs sin looking for bfa so far?
steep obsidian
if you want to see what its like on live take off your legendaries, artifact weapon and then make sure to not poison your daggers and that simulates it reasonably well as to when you ding 120
in all seroiusness though damage wise tuning aint done and I havent looked at encounters enough to see what specs might be good even if they get the tuning right of all 3 sepcs
exotic glen
personally i consider the prepatch and pre-raid to be the real testing grounds
it feels useless to test alphas and betas unless you want to provide feedback
steep obsidian
pre patch is pretty pointless is normally a bit wonky and weird builds n stuff happen
exotic glen
yes, but its a finalized version of the beta in a sense
its when they transition the changes into the actual game
steep obsidian
guaranteed there will be some wonky trinkets or items that will be broken in pre patch until they get fixed too
exotic glen
haha
still cant get over selithan playing with that caster trinket in m+
i guess it works, but i just never thought of it
warm parcel
bfa sin is what we have now
Just slow
And more boring
With ct added back from wod
dire spoke
๐๐ป for sub fotm
lean hill
@exotic glen beacon from high command?
exotic glen
no, its fulmination charge from EoA
lean hill
Ah gotcha. Haven't seen people messing around much with dungeon caster trinkets but I know a lot of people use beacon. Its ridiculous for warriors
I have a 965 but I've been too lazy to figure out the best way to use it
arctic venture
!relics
chrome tuskBOT
List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
gray_hounds relic sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=0
ornate gazelle
Should I be using Blood Fury with Vendetta or Vanish?
strange python
Well you're going to use vendetta with vanish, no?
I guess I shouldn't assume everyone uses shoulders
ornate gazelle
Oh of course
tardy belfry
I simmed my top gear and I ended up with 40% crit and 120% mastery. I thought I was supposed to get around 200% mastery. Maybe I should use bleed build?
exotic glen
if bleed build sims higher, and you know how to play it, then go for it
tardy belfry
Gonna sim talents then
I think the issue is having low-ish ring and a not ideal second legendary besides shoulder. I got the insigna ring with tons of crit but no mastery
And obviously it outperforms my 930 rings
hoary copper
There are no specific stat % to try to reach and we have no caps.
with bleed, bracer boots are going to be better with 3/3 vendetta
Also 2PT20 is pretty good I believe
dire spoke
๐
civic palm
๐ ๐ ๐
nova snow
lol @ornate gazelle
ornate gazelle
Sup
thorn shore
Anyone know what the best talents are for sin on beta?
humble cape
what is poison bomb
humble cape
oh
humble cape
idek what bag of tricks is
civic palm
๐
civic palm
๐
dire spoke
<_<
civic palm
O _O
civic palm
Yes the old Mod type and stop ":3
humble cape
take the mr ping challenge and ping the mods 19 times
dire spoke
@supple hearth bb ๐
supple hearth
Sempai
dire spoke
why ping 19 times if you can have Giggle blushing with only one
thorn shore
Ok so master Assassin and Poison Bomb for Sin then. What about the rest? Master Poisoner/Vigor/Toxic Blade?
strange python
mizerok meant that master assassin and poison bomb are terrible
The first row is still debatable, Blindside has been shown to at least be a dps increase over mutilate, Nightstalker and Subterfuge will likely remain close, Vigor will likely be better for poison build, Venom Rush is much better than TB or Exsang, Hidden Blades is best for single target and Crimson Tempest is best for aoe
marble hemlock
i wish poison bomb a slow and painful death and hope it remains as shit as it currently is on beta
strange python
yeah poison bomb's damage is just too low
and master assassin is weak in every way
it either needs to last longer or be stronger
dire spoke
that's what she said
thorn shore
So master poisoner wouldn't be bad then?
strange python
there hasn't been much testing to show otherwise
marble hemlock
basically, what connor described is the current "consensus". emphasis on current. things may change overnight if blizzard decides to tune the numbers differently
strange python
but chances are low mastery at the start of the xpac means it won't be as good as the others
onyx sigil
It would be cool if they just cut PB and gave us KB back instead.
marble hemlock
its an aoe-tier though, so thats not going to happen
thorn shore
Ok so Blindside/NS/Vigor/CD/Iron Wire/Venom Rush/Crimson Tempest for dungeons would be good then?
strange python
sure, master poisoner or elaborate planning is probably better in dungeons since blindside doesn't do much in aoe
also, crimson tempest is entirely snapshotted by nightstalker, so try to end packs with 5cp
so you can open with a juicy crimson tempest.
thorn shore
Ok ty. And good to know about the snapshot
marble hemlock
and, at least right now, you usually run prey on the weak
since, as connor just mentioned, you snapshot the crimson tempest damage by keeping combopoints from the previous pack, you rarely - probably never - use garrote on trash. and bosses are immune to the effect of iron wire.
onyx sigil
Subterfuge + Ironwire might have some interesting uses in m+, especially with BE racial going away. Hopefully Subt doesn't end up too far behind come live.
marble hemlock
iron wire may be useful if it turns out that we will be using subterfuge and triple-garrote openers on trash instead to provide us with some much needed energy, but thats not the case right now
maybe, but its usually not the pull thats scary, its what happens after the initial round of defensive CDs on the tank and the groups aoe-cc options are exhausted, and iron wire does very little in that regard
but yeah, it may definitely have its uses, we will see ๐
onyx sigil
Well, there's Vanish for post-pull application. It's cool utility. Hope it ends up being viable.
strange python
If they gut the CT + NS interaction I prefer subt
Since garrote and rupture almost do the same damage on beta
marble hemlock
subterfuge will be good for dungeons to kickstart your energy sustain
bronze dragon
what is stat priority for poison build again?
onyx sigil
Mastery >= Crit >= Vers >>>> Haste. You have to sim yourself for a real answer.
bronze dragon
ok ty
thorn shore
Shrouded - Suffocation Azerite trait is broken? Garrote from stealth generates 2 additional combo points? Its giving me 5 from stealth everytime non crits too
honest gazelle
yooooo! so i got a question. i just got the empty crown legendary. and currently i have the boots and soul of the shadowblade ring. if i equip the helm i lose my 4 set bonus but i could put higher ilv pieces by losing the 4 set what should i do?
supple hearth
Have you tried simming the different combinations
onyx sigil
Simming it is the only way to get an accurate answer; however, dropping 4pc is probably not a gain. You should try to get another tier piece (but you can also sim that to see if it's worthwhile).
exotic glen
Yes
onyx sigil
4pc is very good.
dire remnant
anyone here play alliance on thrall?
onyx sigil
Assassination doesn't have legendary gloves...
quick ice
you don't know about the secret legendary gloves? ๐
steep obsidian
hmm why cant i see offtopic channel
civic palm
~6% crit ^^^
civic palm
When you only can get ~23%, it's preeeetty nice.
25% probably, still missing 1-2 crit pieces =\
I do think that +Primary is still probably better.
dusty spade
Nevermind, guide.
strange python
๐
lone junco
That Garrote/Mut crit is alot like the sub version. but it was like 1400 crit for the first SS after dance.
quick ice
I think its 1st anything after dance (including evis), but yeah
yeah, strike, evis or storm
severe dune
fuck yah
just got my zoldyck bracers from a titan essence!
now i can complete my shoulders ๐
just noticed i have all 3 bracers for each spec lol, only leggos i have is shoulder, 3 bracers, pants and shadowblade ring
stark heart
can't see that garrote crit to change how you play really so meh
steep obsidian
do we even know the traits on raid gear yet?
steep obsidian
like im hoping there is some that are not mediocre
civic palm
There's already some fine stuff outside of them, here's hoping.
steep obsidian
coz i have like only seen maybe one or 2 that look ok so far
civic palm
Blizzard get off of holiday there's some broooooken crap.
stark heart
is it a bad bonus to have? - no
does it change how you play which azerite traits supposedly should do? - no
steep obsidian
well tier bonus sometimes changed the way you played
civic palm
Do we know that Tier 1 traits would change the way you would play?
steep obsidian
same with trinkets and legos
so i think they should if they are designed properly
its one thing that keeps the game a bit fresh each tier
civic palm
Yeah but at the same time...
sometimes the bonuses are fucking lame.
No just Envenom.
Seriously just... Envenom.
stark heart
I think tier 1 for Assa is "envenom does more damage to target with garrote", isn't it?
stark heart
much gameplay change
stark heart
now compare that to outlaw bracers effect
civic palm
A legendary...
stark heart
of course it's recycled one but hell it does change things
civic palm
and not some random dungeon drop...
Oh wait did they get the bracers on Tier 1?
Hawt.
Give us Execute.
stark heart
bracers effect somewhere in azertires
stark heart
you have blindside
civic palm
Mmmmm, meeeeeeeeeeh.
I haven't looked to see if Blindside gets up to ~7% overall damage.
Might though > _>"
steep obsidian
fix venom rush to do something with blindside and I'd feel better about that talent
steep obsidian
also fok
stark heart
Don't think vr would save BS
civic palm
Just feels bad picking the two together.
stark heart
it's logical to add it there but BS itself just doesn't provide that much in exe
civic palm
If VR did anything, would feel better.
stark heart
then again maybe the idea is to not give much dps increase but rather change how you play in execute
don't think fok is getting there given it's ST row
stark heart
I wish poisoned knives would be in place of poison bomb
steep obsidian
why would you chose it if it doesn't make execute a lot better?
civic palm
Would be more consistent that's for fucking sure.
Though to be fair, PBOMB does ~5% damage period.
Very consistent > _>
stark heart
well you don't really care about it
civic palm
I might fool around with BS some more but EP just feels preeeetty great.
stark heart
when do you see + damage for rupture?
civic palm
Tier 1 AA traits.
stark heart
I see azerite where rupt grants agi
civic palm
What the +agi from rupture targets?
civic palm
The value is much higher @ 325, but yeah, traits are rather straight forward.
Though I linked it but I did not.
It's like 170 or so.
O _O
tight blade
Not very good at optimizing but can any of you point me in the right direction whether these stats weights are about right or tell me if im seriously missing the mark
civic palm
Seems fine, follow the sims
tight blade
Alright, cheers
hazy iron
Scent of blood - I wonder how many ruptures that means we'll need to have running
hazy iron
yeah thats what I mean
it'll surely reach a point where it becomes a waste of CP #feelycraft
warm parcel
Not as long as rup is still #1 in dpe
robust burrow
I got new shoulders. Raidbots suggests me that i must change to bracers-boots for a +2%... too months playing with shoulders-bracers
sharp viper
rejoice! be free of of the oppressing shoulderpads!
lime minnow
Excluding sims, whats the go-to secondary stat to prioritise as I go through the gearing up process?
I'm sat at 106% mastery lol, I'm not bothering with sims as my ilvl on my rogue is only 910 so just wanted to know what a safe choice would've been ^^
shrewd night
106 mastery is nothing
marble hemlock
imagine oprah not giving out things, but taking things instead. if she was playing assa, that would be mastery.
lime minnow
sweetos
carmine valve
Hello im reading Sin guide is the "Opener and Rotation" section of Ravenholdt.net up to date? Ive only played assassin in Emerald nightmare, and wanting to learn it for Argus Mythic progress. We are only doing Argus Mythic, so if there anything else beside the guide I need to look out for please let me know
solid nova
The guide is accurate and up to date, However if you've got logs as Sin you have to share we can look into more detail in terms of refining areas
carmine valve
Ive only played Sub, I dont have logs of sin. Personally im not even sure if its worth at this stage for me to switch over. I just wanted to read up on Sin
solid nova
If you're purely looking for reading material, the guide is accurate. Anything that isn't clear just shout mate.
carmine valve
Ive seen different legendaries on Argus M, most goes Shoulder and wrist. but some goes wrist and boots
shrewd night
MATE
carmine valve
I also think they switch around Subterfuge Nightstalker based on what legendary they use. Is it purely personal choice or is there anything more ?
solid nova
It's relative to what value you can get out of each, which will naturally vary. In terms of swapping specs, I agree in the sense it's late and at this point it's certainly not going to come down sub/sin as a factor. If sub is what you know and perform well in, swapping and relearning for progression could be counter intuitive imo.
But again, Sin is far from complex and there's plenty of resources if you're going to swap regardless.
carmine valve
Im actually simming 50k dps higher as sub, I asume its cause of relics.
hoary copper
Nightstalker is generally better than subterfuge. Boost/wrist/shoulders and helm are all pretty close depending on off pieces. You'd have to sim to see which is better
carmine valve
and since guild is extending Argus M, it would be hard to grab relics
hoary copper
Relics, gear, leggos those could all factor
carmine valve
The nice thing about sin is the extra dmg u do -35% health
and we are on p3 argus progression
prime venture
How mutch crit would you guys recomend? got 21% crit i belive i do neeed more
solid nova
Your stat weights will determine if you need more or not, which all can be simmed
hoary copper
Probably, 
strange python
I can tell you right now 21% is way too low
prime venture
yeah i just simmed it. totally forgot you could do that. i just returned so ๐
and i got 225% mast i guess i can trap down a little on mast hah
229%*
hoary copper
yea prob wont be a bad idea, make sure you have close to 0 haste too
lean hill
229? Jesus
steep obsidian
it probably sims well but 21% would be dogshit to play ๐
prime venture
Ya
hoary copper
Im at like 30 ish and sometimes I feel like I want more
lean hill
I think I've been at 28 for a long time
hoary copper
I keep getting haste gear, I think the game wants me to outlul
lean hill
But I always use my precious mantle
I got a 960 socketed melandrus ring
So I'm dabbling with outlaw again
lean hill
I never get high TFs
I couldnt turn away from my fate
Maybe I'll get a 985 from my chest with sin stats
Though realistically itll be haste/mastery like usual lol
hoary copper
Still doing weekly mythics in 2K18
hoary copper
Im gearing alts
lean hill
I mean it takes 15 min to do a 15
hoary copper
I forgot to do my coins of air last 2 weeks tho
steep obsidian
oh yeah i havent been doing that either
lean hill
And sometimes those 15s give you a 960 socketed melandrus ring lol
hoary copper
I never get groups because I dont do them so my m+ score is poop. I havent logged into rogue much
lean hill
Ah yea mines 3k so I get in groups easily enough
hoary copper
Thats a nice eoc
steep obsidian
my paladin can get in keys fine and his score is like 1700
maybe they can see my main at 3.4
hoary copper
I still havent gotten a leggo on my DK yet. prob be 930 before I get a leggo
lean hill
I only make alts when I have tokens
Made hunter and monk when I got to 5. I'm waiting until I get 10 for any more
steep obsidian
i have 4 monk tokens sitting in bank
my monk hasnt been levelled past 91
/spit fotm
lean hill
I have 7 paladin, 6 shaman/mage, 5 warrior/warlock and a single DH token
So we will see who makes it to 10 first
steep obsidian
ive gotten a lot but i stopped really doing much for essences now
not even doing antorus
hoary copper
I dont have tokens because I have so many alts I switch through so no one has all the leggos
steep obsidian
cept when i can be screwed finding a pug
steep obsidian
i did a pug last week but they shit me
if you make a "1 shot geared group" why are you taking boosted idiots
who have no idea what they are doin
lean hill
I have low patience. If we wipe on any early boss I'm probably hearthing
tawdry hedge
is melandrus good for assass?
lean hill
I dont mind carrying but man people are bad in these slow days before bfa
Naw for outlaw
And bgs
Bfa
Not bgs
steep obsidian
it might be good in pre patch
and for levelling
if you care about that
auto attack seems to be a fair amount of damage even for sin in bfa
hoary copper
I saw a thing on those one shot groups @steep obsidian where they announce they are a 1 shot group get geared people than have the boosted people paying for the run but only the leader of it is getting cash
lean hill
The leveling is all I want it for
tawdry hedge
Yea I have a 950 socketed one
hoary copper
and no one else in the groups knows about it
steep obsidian
i did so many archimonde sales back in the day
and full clears on heroic and mythic
lean hill
I dont use in game cash for anything, no sense to do sales
hoary copper
Subscription?
lean hill
I dont mind carrying a bit for free either
steep obsidian
and transfers if you want to
lean hill
I just use real money
steep obsidian
well yeah you can do that
hoary copper
If I could make enough to pay for my sub I would.
lean hill
Use my in game cash to gamble in raids
hoary copper
If I could get a group or sell runs it'd be nice. Again dont stick to one character enough
steep obsidian
i think i finsihed hfc with like sub for 18 months and like 2.5 mill gold
but once they made you able to buy other shit it spiked the price up a lot
lean hill
Now that they have gone up I wouldn't bother, kind of wish I had bought some in the first days
But oh well
Actually I used gold to get draenor flying
Bought up a shitload of the rep tokens off AH
hoary copper
Someone in guild bought about a years worth of sub with the gold they had. Quit about a month after they bought it
lean hill
Lol
hoary copper
I could just use my enchanting to make money with selling disenchanted crap
hoary copper
yea, well offering bloods for mats really downed the prices of most the mats
steep obsidian
mats are gonna be weird in bfa
like being able to dismantle your gear to mats is interesting
hoary copper
Oh? I havent looked at any of the profession changes
So like a leatherworker can get their catgut and leather back?
hoary copper
I was just using an example
steep obsidian
well its something like that nayway
hoary copper
huh interesting
steep obsidian
but yeah you basically disenchant equipable gear to materials
i havent tested it myself buf friend was talking about it the other day
hoary copper
That will make the market interesting for sure
I hope Jewelcrafting gets love. Idk it felt in a weird spot. You could buy mats for everything but that. I mean you could use prospecting and HOPE you got the right gem, but I hardly ever did. Always ended up buying it
I guess that would help it a bit tho
faint sleet
does exsanguinate increase the number of ticks or just compress the dot window?
jovial kite
compress
faint sleet
so it doesnt increase total dmg, just dps
faint sleet
how do u mean
jovial kite
exsanguinate during blood of the assassinated or concordance is much bigger in value than exsanguinate without
jovial kite
exsanguinate is more consistent vs toxic blade
less swing
also higher dps average at 980
faint sleet
where does the swing come from?
jovial kite
in tb build, it comes from poisonbomb and tb / mantle / execute windows
poisonbomb is less relevant in exsang / ep builds
faint sleet
what does the exsanguinate build look like
hoary copper
bleedy builds are also different gearing, 2PT20, boots/wrists, 3/3 Vendetta
jovial kite
^ this too
faint sleet
why do you want crit for bleeds instead of mastery?
jovial kite
because rupture is your main damagedealer as well as having deeper stratagem
so you're at 6cp max cap
its mostly because of cp generation
hoary copper
Because mastery does more for poisons and poison bombs, crit will give faster CP gen
mastery doesnt give bleed buffs right? cant remember
jovial kite
no
faint sleet
it does on beta (i dont play a rogue on live but considering it for next tier)
jovial kite
in bfa it will
faint sleet
just got a rogue to 120 and playing around with specs
but looking to learn from the Assa fam in here
hoary copper
!singuide
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
hoary copper
will give an idea of what its like now
faint sleet
yeah
jovial kite
i have yet to see higher simming exsang build than mine so take a look if ur interested
hoary copper
Of course with pb changes, and everything it will be a little different
jovial kite
for current build
faint sleet
the new aoe talent seems like it does really good damage
hoary copper
CT?
jovial kite
not sure if mfd is optimal even in beta
faint sleet
me neither
DS might be better
like i said im a new rogue. been multiglad on pala and DK, and mythic raided in Legion as dk or warrior
but rogue seems like alpha melee
so gonna take a plunge
steep obsidian
alpha?
faint sleet
(aka best)
steep obsidian
hmmm not really
faint sleet
alpha wolf
steep obsidian
all the mellee are decent tbh
steep obsidian
for pvp?
faint sleet
for pve
hoary copper
There's pvp in the game now?!
steep obsidian
only thing rogues are better at is living a bit longer
dh + monk have been better for dungeons and raids most of expac
hoary copper
memebeamz!
steep obsidian
well maybe not raids for dungeons but monk been good for dungeon
faint sleet
they;re both part of the meta
faint sleet
but many mythic raid fights were rogue stacked
faint sleet
and many MDI teams stacked rogues too
jovial kite
remember pre legion sub mastery pre cast crap?
steep obsidian
they played sub and planned pulls specifically around ss combo
but monks could pull off more dps in those pulls they just more squishy
sub is mongo dps on one target while cleaving
hoary copper
rogues and mages for soaking were nearly mandatory
faint sleet
how do those builds (in linked guide) change with venom rush now in t90 and poison bomb /CT in t100
steep obsidian
no one will really bother to figure out which builds are best until tuning is done
faint sleet
sure, but just looking for gut reactions from seasoned rogue players
steep obsidian
venom rush is worthless for aoe now though and doesnt work with blinside
hopefully the do some tweaks coz that sucks
faint sleet
well you wouldnt take blindside if you're playing EP
fallow thunder
Hey, Guys. Any idea about crucible weigths?
fallow thunder
nice ty
hoary copper
You can change the leggos a bit too if you're not using mantle bracers. I dont think t changes tons tho
fallow thunder
Sure. I needed something to start
crystal sluice
Currently, Subterfuge is simming better for my character. Here is my raiderbot report: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kqXqX5H6nJwVtrNq8LYFba - so my question is, when is it an appropriate time to swap over to night-stalker which is the recommended talent and how does the rotation change between the two talents?
hoary copper
Do you have shoulders?
That usually is when its better
your sim seems low for ilvl but could be leggo choices partially
Oh no T21
So much haste...
sharp viper
i am one vendetta malch relic and a crit vers ring away from playing bleedy spec :/
viscid helm
pretty sure prepatch wipes out all traits
and assuming its 6 weeks before launch
you have 4 weeks
fervent beacon
Well, how are we going to deal with losing our artifact in prepatch?
viscid helm
we dont lose it?
fervent beacon
Well, yeah nvm
viscid helm
you just lose all traits
keep the ilvl weapon afaik
so keeping highest ilvl relics is ideal
in the weapon
crystal sluice
@hoary copper Yeah, I do not have any teir right now and my strongest leggos atm are uncrown and vendetta boots. I sim stat weights before every raid and throw them into pawn to make sure everything I put in is an upgrade.
strange python
My relics are god awful anyway. Take them blizzard and burn the crucible with fire while you're at it.
sharp viper
playing the game is supposed to be fun, if you got such a negative perspective on things they become futile quite fast
hoary copper
Yea get rid of that waist, chest and wrist as soon as you can
crystal sluice
@hoary copper I do have Helm normal and Back lfr tier, but im pretty sure both are downgrades for me
hoary copper
I think the 4p will prob be an upgrade, idk from what you have but its worth the sim
crystal sluice
ill go and check it out, the only question though is what to replace the helm leggo with? I have both rings, feint pants, and cyndari
hoary copper
Probably none of those, maybe the insignia ring (not the god awful freebee from Argus)
sharp viper
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear can help you with that
hoary copper
Once you get wrists or shoulders prob one of those
hoary copper
We've established he knows how to sim
crystal sluice
I use raiderbot before every raid
and have the simcraft addon to get strings
๐
hoary copper
He cant read, its fine
Lol
But yea the 4p will prob be a decent upgrade if you get a decent ilvl. I mean the ilvl is nice for what you have but haste isnt useful (yet) and I dont think that fabricator is great but ive never used it
crystal sluice
I dont have any other good trinkets as of the moment. Just started doing heroic about two weeks ago with some guildies
hoary copper
ah, not bad then for just starting
crystal sluice
overall started up this char again about a month ago
hoary copper
I sim 1.85 at 955 so fairly similar ilvl
just as a reference, tho some of my gear is still poop
I think Noobe or Slagg has a set around our ilvl that sims for about 1.9
sharp viper
I can read i am just incapable of using my mousewheel up
crystal sluice
XD
I may have thrown the wrong gear in - cant remember if there were sokets or not - but holy god its a 100k dps loss to swap out for a two piece. Thats also including the swap of helm leggo to soul of the shadowblade leggo
slow mortar
Going hidden blades and NS, would you vanish+fok?
hoary copper
The cape isnt that great
slow mortar
For bfa talents*
hoary copper
top gear and choose eerything lol thats what I do, tho tells me shoulder boots are best which is odd
crystal sluice
How many master assassin traits do you have?
sharp viper
@slow mortar depends on the size of the pull and when the next boss fight is coming up
slow mortar
Read someone mention hidden blades > poison bomb
hoary copper
mmm I think Im using 1, You use either 1 or 3 due to cooldowns
crystal sluice
Does that include the nether crucible?
because the more you have the better the boots become
because the overall percent that the boots is reducing of your main CD increases
hoary copper
Well you want either 3/3 vendetta or 1/3 because of cooldown timing even with boots
with boots 3/3 is obvi better
which is needed for bleed build
manic vigil
sharp viper
well i suppose if you have sufficient crit you could be fine with 2/3 mass
naive cypress
How do you do the 3rd phase of aggramar now a days?
Do you just nuke the boss and ignore all adds?
exotic glen
yes
we even have 1 person cheese the adds all they like
usually /roll who gets to do it
it still hasnt been my turn yet ๐ก
naive cypress
So 1 person justs dmges the adds and you move the boss to opposite side of platform?
exotic glen
we just keep kiting the boss in circles around the arena, yes
and 1 person just does whatever they want with the adds
stark heart
I was never allowed to abuse adds
they keep them afar and mage blizzards them
yikes strat
exotic glen
guess who won the first /roll in our raid lorentz
stark heart
hm
exotic glen
freaking the lock who used slow ring every single kill until now
stark heart
Torty?
stark heart
exotic glen
was just triggered that the one who actually already parsed plenty on the fight
got another one
stark heart
imagine telling me that in time
exotic glen
well
from idea to it happening
was like a week
i was gonna tell you but you said you found a new happy guild hahaha
stark heart
right
exotic glen
pls no lorentz pls
cosmic mountain
I have found Sub to have consistently comfortable energy regeneration, and Outlaw to be just fine if managed properly, but I cannot for the life of me tolerate the incredibly low energy regen of Assassination. Any tips?
boreal frigate
4pc
cosmic mountain
I do x 2. I do it all. I still have to wait 4 seconds between abilities though, since my energy is so slow.
This is without sets, and on 1v1.
exotic glen
the t21 4pc helps a lot
cosmic mountain
So it's dependent on the set, then? Unlike the other specs?
exotic glen
not super dependent no, but it quickly adds up over a fight
i can only recommend that you post a log where you feel like your regen is slow
you might be doing something wrong, who knows
cosmic mountain
Sub has quick regen and a cooldown for some quick energy. Outlaw has nice procs and cooldowns. Assassination doesn't seem to have anything but a set for energy.
I'll come back tonight with some more info.
Maybe a gif.
cosmic mountain
I think I'm on Marked for Death. I'll test that one out later. Ty.
exotic glen
like, you're missing 2 energy regen mechanics
of course its gonna be slower than usual
but also, assa is one of the lowest APM specs in the game so
cosmic mountain
Sets shouldn't be thought of as expected or core parts of a spec. They're hard-to-acquire raider-only benefits. They don't even work in PvP if you do have it.
patent topaz
tier sets hard to acquire?
thorn pasture
Dont play marked for death
exotic glen
i meanm if you dont do pve at all i guess it is
patent topaz
why do you want tier if you dont pve though
exotic glen
because i told him to get 4pc for energy regen because i didnt know he was talking about pvp
patent topaz
forgot world pvp
exotic glen
wpvp is ded tho
thorn pasture
Who cares about the regen when you hit like a truck in arenas
patent topaz
because sets dont work in instanced pvp
this week is bg week
gonna try to do the defuse 2 bombs in one strand before they remove it
last achieve ive been missing for strand for about 8 years
patent topaz
world pvp was the reason I went rogue in vanilla in the first place
lean hill
STV life
patent topaz
when I saw stealth in a trailer I was sold
100%
still the best ability in the game
lean hill
I cant play without stealth now, first wow toon was rogue
exotic glen
idk, i feel like stealth lost a lot of its magic in recent expacs
too many mobs / enemies that can see stealth
even DHs can now
lean hill
I didnt play most of those unfortunately. But I do hate the fact DHs can see through it
Stupid gliding bastards
exotic glen
just feels like any advantage a class has over another is getting gutted
cant wait for them to introduce a potion that makes you see stealth
when those advantages is what should get people to play the class, because they think it would be awesome
lean hill
Its like when hunters duel rogues and sit on a trap with a flare out. Good job hunter, you're the best
patent topaz
at least there is no more perception and felhunters
naive cypress
Wait, on mythic
lean hill
Loved how randomly here and there someone on argus could see through
exotic glen
also, small, hugely dense and packed zones just nerfs stealth by default
naive cypress
When embers get empowered
From flares etc
Do they deal more dmg to raid, or is that only HC and Normal?
thorn pasture
I mean to be fair alot of classes lost their โmagicโ
naive cypress
Not from the big adds
exotic glen
cant really speak on behalf of other classes though, i dont know them like i know rogue
exotic glen
its more like i cant put the changes into perspective because its not the same character that i have played consistently
i play my alts, but i cant claim to be an expert on any of them
stark heart
@exotic glen still 
btw
placid egret
exotic glen
@stark heart what can i do to make it ok again
patent topaz
tbh I only vaguely remember wod and have no clue what rogue was like during mop anymore
stark heart
light kestrel
WPvP is far from dead, on Illidan at least.
desert hazel
what leggos do you guys suggest for aggra prog ?
between bracers and shoulders , shoulders and boots or boots and bracers
viscid helm
bracers
desert hazel
helpfull
viscid helm
ur welcome
calm cedar
I have nver seen a legendary over my 4 characters....Is there a running average number of hours or something you need to play to start seeing them?
Or am I going to just get 3 to drop back to back and not see them again for 6 months based on RNG?
viscid helm
you need to do content and not AFK in dalaran
surreal solar
Is there anyone here who'd be willing to help someone... improve their logs?
dire spoke
they will be viewed if you public post them
strange python
lots of people
surreal solar
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/turalyon/thistledeath#
be as brutal as possible, i'd like to at least break 50 soon
well... helpful
viscid helm
wtf is this opener
dire spoke
how did you get in mythic progress with this play?
I'd suggest reading and understanding the guide and tooltips ๐คท๐ป
surreal solar
so, is just the opener bad? or is the whole rotation trash
strange python
First thing I see is that you have the leggo shoulders and 6 master assassin traits which does nothing to your dps, you want either 5 or 7 master assassin traits. Your opener is a hot mess. It should be Garrote - Mutilate - Rupture - Vendetta - Toxic Blade - Kingsbane - Vanish - Envenom - Mutilate - Envenom - Mutilate - Envenom - Mutilate - Envenom. You appear to be saving Toxic Blade for Kingsbane which is a dps loss over just using Toxic Blade on cooldown. Your dps dropped to zero multiple times on mythic garothi which is the result of poor planning, even when running away from eradication you should still have dots rolling on the boss. Your kingsbane uptime is 25% which should be 40-45%. Your second+ vanishes need to essentially be a replica of the opener.
lone junco
strange python
^do that
lone junco
strange python
wat
dire spoke
and the planning around CDs with bleeds is bad aswell https://snag.gy/Hm2Wah.jpg
viscid helm
idk why u are double rupturing constantly
lone junco
I do that. dont be like me.
dire spoke
you're a snowflake
surreal solar
exsang, you're bleed tho
dire spoke
but nice 9/11 carry ๐คท๐ป gratz
drifting cloud
thats just how zempai felt when he was 9/11 like a month ago
viscid helm
dire spoke
strange python
fixing opener and being more aware of cooldowns and debuffs and you're on your way to a good parse
lone junco
970 ilvl
yeah, the midblock vanish will help as well.
you need to actually do 3 env.
dense rivet
hi, i seek for a macro like that : cast vanish then rupture, but i think vanish doesnt have the time to active (sorry bad english)
viscid helm
what if he clicks
dire spoke
I don't help alliance
dense rivet
glad
manic vigil
rude
dense rivet
so i dont find on the net, so i think here its the same thing, with troll ๐
need to do a lazy macro so ๐ข
fiery nest
dire spoke
maybe just google macro wow and get your info next time http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/MACRO_cast
dense rivet
my god
man
stop try to be superior
i know macros
vanish doesnt appear before rupture
dire spoke
nice toxic
viscid helm
i think.. no.. to
dire spoke
install trufigcd if you're not sure what your toon does
dense rivet
im a bad toxic so, cause i just say a question and ive receive trolling at 00
i have elvui so i can try something with aura bars
but vanish doesnt show is face on the buffs bar and in the forums its same for most player,
(i can hear the sound of vanish but there is no icon so it can be a graphic issue i dont know) if can help someone iteress by this macro
dire spoke
are you playing without mantle?
dire spoke
just checking
dense rivet
i think this macro is interstind
ing
like battle cry avatar mortal strike (why i said that before)
blizzard let us make macros for anithing ( i dont like to much macro, i think its a bad thing in pvp also) but intersting
dire spoke
I like clicking, so ๐คท๐ป
drifting cloud
give him monk main rank
dense rivet
ok can be an issue when vanish is not at a reflex bind
for me its G for vanish and 3 for rupture
dense rivet
with some training i can make this trick with no macro obviously,
thx for the help ๐
exotic glen
just press the buttons in sequence? how hard can it be
dire spoke
dense rivet
xD
dire spoke
just click
dense rivet
the macro in the paper work
cause not in GCD
but
vanish dont show is face on buff bar
on forums this is the problem
so people abandon this macro
hazy iron
Thats because vanishbisnt its own buff, its stealth
And it should definitely be showing on your buffs bar
dire spoke
if you instantly hit rupture ofc you don't see it
dense rivet
if the macro worked everyone would play with
hazy iron
That too
dense rivet
yes
dire spoke
that's why I said install trufigcd
dense rivet
I thought about that
dense rivet
but when i read the forums people said its bug or something like that, or they dont know if they have the 50% damage up for exemple
dire spoke
you can check the damage output in the combatlog
lethal heart
i cant speak in off topic
dense rivet
i'll go try it whti aura bar elvui, and if i see nothing i'll try your addon ๐
dense rivet
i dont think its a useless macro, if you have vanish on 1 and rupture or envenom at 2 its not helpfull, but its like weak aura, in t he end its useless, you can track the buff debuff, CD with your eyes
its just skill
or experience
exotic glen
what if you need to press another finisher after vanish
dense rivet
pro arena dont have addon for track buff and they can see a procc from 3 enemy in 2 sec
exotic glen
thats a possibility with different gear sets
dense rivet
and call the buff
^^
i have vanish on G
and i make the macro for Maj G
i put the bind on the right bar
so i have to vanish on my screen,
exotic glen
so what you do is
dense rivet
but i dont see the macro icon
exotic glen
press G and then whatever button rupture or envenom is
shrewd night
@exotic glen Didnt you know thats how macros work?
dense rivet
its just for confort
like BC for Awar
the can do burst macro and when we demand for a simple vanish/rupture macro, you find trolling and little toxic guys ^^
i dont anderstand that ^^ :p
dire spoke
because there is nothing much to do wrong
- you can check damage output in the combatlog
- you can check what your toon does with addons
- you could even log your dummy fight
dense rivet
and for your information,
allows to gain in speed of action, as a macro is always faster than a hand action, that's why we do it.
yes i'm gonna do that, cause no one can telle me if this obvious macro work or not :p
tell
dense rivet
yes i think , cause guide for assa doesnt show that macro
shrewd night
But it doesnt in practice
dense rivet
in raid its laggy i read that
exotic glen
because literally no one does it
dense rivet
can work on dummy but when you go in raid, vanish deosnt work or something like that, or rupure doesnt work
balmy cradle
since rupture is a long ass debuff why would you want a "burst" macro in the first place? just curious
dense rivet
not for burst macro
that was an exemple with the Awar
with BC macro
in the paper its work same
exotic glen
do you also macro rampage to your buffs like BC and Avatar?
exotic glen
no, because sometimes you need to press other button instead
dense rivet
dont be stupid
mossy hazel
Hey, how's Horn of Valor for sin? It's solid right?
dense rivet
why you tell that
shrewd night
Its good for kinga
exotic glen
you're stupid, stupid
shrewd night
Thats it
balmy cradle
ic, well from my experience i can say if you hit envenom or any damaging cast to fast after vanish, the vanish "procc"? doesnt occur, you dont get the shoulder crit buff for example but it can be my internet delay? idk
shrewd night
That was to @mossy hazel
balmy cradle
i usually wait for animation of vanish to end and then hit my envenom
shrewd night
A vanish>rupture macro will never work
balmy cradle
like when im visibly invis lel
exotic glen
that sounds unoptimal
dense rivet
you dont need cause vanish have the buff of stealh buff
exotic glen
but you do you
dense rivet
50% damage
shrewd night
Show me a log where it works Reikor and Ill believe you
lone junco
I mean. Vanish. Then Env.
dire spoke
he doesn't have mantle are you drunk?
mossy hazel
I just picked up a 970 horn of valor and it's simming substantially higher than my 945 shadow singed fang
exotic glen
then use that instead
mossy hazel
I assume that even though Horn/Fang sim higher than Golg/Horn, I should still be using panth trinket regardless
dense rivet
no i said : you can do vanish then rupture (with no macro) in aproximatly same time, without waiting for the animation of vanish because vanish buff have the 50% damage increase buff
dire spoke
You can use the macro, just don't spam hit it ๐ค
dense rivet
its difficult to follow you cause im not english so i can be confuse sorry :p
mossy hazel
Thanks for the quickie guys
shrewd night
a) make different macros for different finishers, or different variables
b) press two buttons you are already familiar with
manic vigil
exotic glen
ask the audience