I really appreciate your advice, it's so kind of you 😃
#assassination
candid jasper
vernal adder
man Flowi and I are so hyped for BfA
manic vigil
Sin compared to affli... Still pondering what that means. Could mean it's shit, could mean it's op
Probably is just nonsense tho
viscid helm
@gusty kestrel did u do raid testing last night
strange python
its melee boomkin
vernal adder
raidy
manic vigil
Aoe fiesta?
manic vigil
Outlul op 
manic vigil
Such diverse damage
viscid helm
we were doing some CC sheinigans
idk, so many classes look like this in the breakdown tho
BFA btw
yeh i've been testing some other classes in the tests
it's not any better tho
feral was rip,bite,rip,bite
since it's so slow
yeh i didnt even wanna try sub
yeh as a BM, you can do 80% of you're dmg with pet and auto shot
manic vigil
It's not? 
viscid helm
vernal adder
👌
viscid helm
nice class
zealous dew
viscid helm
yeh if you replace DK's runeforging with the 35% attack speed enchant
can prob get to 45% AA dmg
viscid helm
🤷
3 months to release
all classes feel like unfinished
all the bosses were dog shit
unfinished
cant wait
manic vigil
Your mom for mod tbh
vernal adder
would cap the mod limit
manic vigil
Savage
manic vigil
Agreed
strange python
all bosses were dogshit?
spare cloud
bosses were fine idk
vestal wren
sme classes feel good
e.g. wl
for bossfights, its hard to say how good/bad they are
steep obsidian
ive been doing the dungeons at 120 they are fun and a lot of punishing mechanics
doing heroics at like 280 ilvl kinda rough
i dunno even if raids arent the best by m+ is the same or better then this expac that is enough for me
kinda burnt out on mythic raiding too much drama to deal with
vestal wren
i didn't play m+ and only a few dungeons on alpha, but they looked more punishing for melees
steep obsidian
hmm yeah i was playing mage
and it was rough some of the trash
like id constantly get targeted and could barel cast
trail heron
maybe more single target, and Kraut Kontrol being needed?
strange python
im all for the game being a little more difficult in general
viscid helm
vestal wren
most specs seem to not get more difficult
steep obsidian
yeah i dont think you will get mass aoe pulls in bfa but then who knows how shit will scale in the end
so many pulls have uninterrruptable extremely dangerous casts or abilities
steep obsidian
not for a while
strange python
I guess that was vague, I meant the dungeons
steep obsidian
you couldnt at start of legion
viscid helm
yeh sure going in greens it might have hurt
2 weeks later
and after that
didnt matter
strange python
though I started playing halfway through legion, I guess dungeons were hard at the start?
trail heron
who knows.....they might finetune it some more
viscid helm
no
manic vigil
Wearing greens 
steep obsidian
it took quite a while before people could do 15s
but 10s werent a big stretech after like a week or 2 of raiding
viscid helm
well that logic could be applied to anything
i could say it took quite a while before people did 28's
🤷
steep obsidian
i dunno i just got the feeling they designed dungeons more around m+ this time
but maybe i wrong
viscid helm
I'm all for it
steep obsidian
and i did almost all of them in crappy gear on heroic if you dont undestand the trash it hands you yer butt
viscid helm
but knowing blizzard
strange python
they should hire you flowi
trail heron
i think a dungeon design of 'less trash, but if you pull 2 packs, it is a pretty guaranteed wipe' that forces CC or piecemeal pulls might be a nice thing again
viscid helm
it wont be a thing.
manic vigil
Bummer
steep obsidian
i want to see what m+ skips are gonna be a thing on motherlode
so much trash
so many knockbacks and shit
so many really dangerous mobs
trail heron
i mean CC used by PLAYERS, not by mobs :p
dense scarab
So some of my guildies want to do a high DHT tonight and they want me to do the trick with the 2 bears before the first boss. So my question is how is it done as I've tried it before and failed badly?
manic vigil
strange python
you mean pulling the bears separate?
dense scarab
You move the bears to the side and the rest of the party move into the boss room and you vanish
manic vigil
dense scarab
But when I used evasion i get killed
dense scarab
You need to engage the adds for the shield to drop
manic vigil
jovial kite
strafe
And you wont die
but if u just run past theyll rip your asshole
thats why you never tank with ur ass exposed, optimally ofc
manic vigil
I'm dying here
strange python
this is the moment you regret asking the rogue discord for advice
I've never seen that done before so what can I say
dense scarab
Just kids one day they will grow up
jovial kite
ye
manic vigil
Smh
jovial kite
i could just say git gud
But i actually answered what he did wrong and how to avoid assrape
instead i get called a kid
manic vigil
jovial kite
🤷
dense scarab
And I know that you should not have your back to the mobs
strange python
I thought he was joking 😄 the more you know
dense scarab
As you don't know that's what I will do
dense scarab
Thanks to Connor for the swipe might be nature
supple hearth
Tbh I've never seen that done either. We just kill the bears
dense scarab
I'm never ungrateful I give credit were it is due
supple hearth
There's a million better places to skip adds in dht bears aren't that bad
strange python
dense scarab
Thanks that helps out alot
strange python
maybe it was an MDI thing
jovial kite
probably got kicked for group
supple hearth
Maybe
dense scarab
Wouldn't know never been kick maybe that's what happens to you
supple hearth
strange python
slagg solos every dungeon
jovial kite
True
supple hearth
M+25 solo ez
jovial kite
No biggie 🤷
jovial kite
Its cleaned dad
manic vigil
supple hearth
Go clean it again
jovial kite
No
manic vigil
Then get my keys it's time for ice cream
supple hearth
You missed a spot
supple hearth
🇺🇸
manic vigil
steep obsidian
its like 1am in korea cant stay up late
spare cloud
Not sure if stupid or just bad joke
steep obsidian
can it be both?
strange python
@dense scarab okay, I talked to someone to has done it before. You use distract to drop the barrier without breaking stealth, run past them a little, pull them with a knife
group runs through and you vanish asap
strange python
So you dont** really have to use evasion, or take any damage from them at all
spare cloud
Yes
dense scarab
@strange python thanks for the info
strange python
sorry I missed a word there. You dont have to use evasion
since you are just kiting them for a second or two
dense scarab
Cool cheers for that
spare cloud
@manic vigil 
manic vigil
strange python
Stupid obnoxious discord previews
surreal lodge
hey guys what do i gotta do for a cool poison tag
dire spoke
ping Stjern
surreal lodge
@fiery flower hey cool guy can i get a cool green color ❤
dire spoke
manic vigil
steep obsidian
what a guy
surreal lodge
yay
spare cloud
didn't work 
strange python
you have to earn the orange
supple hearth
RIP Toph
spare cloud
at least I tried
succeed or die trying
maybe another despot
@ rare can I get orange color?
strange python
CT is pretty good yeah
strange python
Busted might be a stretch
steep obsidian
interesting
I'd always forget to save cp coz im bad to pull off that combo
although i guess ns envenom a lot
surreal lodge
im pretty hyped shoulders got put as a talent
strange python
just pick marked for death ez
strange python
that talent has been deemed horrid
marble hemlock
it is known?
strange python
I don't like how both tb and exsang are not worth it lol
And I don't know what they would do to fix it tbh
hate choosing between energy regen vs dps stuff
steep obsidian
and venom rush does nothing for cleave or if you spec dispatch during execute
that whole row is whack and need to be sorta fixed
surreal lodge
im soooo hyped to play dispatch again but its on the same tier as poison 🤔
steep obsidian
sin seems a bit boring without kb to pay attention to tbh
strange python
CT is fun
steep obsidian
at least you had to think a litttle bit for that
surreal lodge
kb?
strange python
kingsbane
surreal lodge
🤔
steep obsidian
at least blindside gives you something diff to pay attention to and anotehr button
surreal lodge
i really like blindside, i loved when we had dispatch during mop
but idk i dont feel much attatchment for kb
echo estuary
sabod is red now :x
strange python
fotm reroller 
echo estuary
team white is the best team
ripe nimbus
Master assassin the talent in BFA might not be as horrid as people think. It's RNG but u could easily open with 4 combo points from a single mutilate on pull. And then RNG vanish an envenom.
Sucks that it's RNG but I don't think it's horrid
steep obsidian
opening with mutilate 🤔
strange python
ive been there
steep obsidian
i do that when questoing
strange python
it doesnt owrk
steep obsidian
coz mobs dont live
ripe nimbus
Why would u open with anything else with master assassin talented?
steep obsidian
yeh
strange python
you could open with shurikens 🤔
steep obsidian
nah
poison knife
i guess epopel will care to sim shit when things are solid and tuned
but from my testing that talent seems unwerwhelming as hell
they could buff it to 100% without breaking anything or making it op
strange python
if it was 100% for 3 seconds would it still be worth it over the others?
i guess you took the words from my mouth
steep obsidian
i guess youd want to mut tb envenom in the crit window if you had those specced?
it might do some ok burst i guess
ripe nimbus
If it was 100% u wouldn't use the other talents they could or just made it 100% chance to proc seal fate from first attack outta stealth or some shit
It's just RNG now it's not horrid tho
steep obsidian
the crimsom tempest ns combo on a big pull with ns seems like a good idea that someone mentioned before
when you ahve cp
and that would happen every pull in m+ if you were smart
steep obsidian
its brokenly op 😛
ripe nimbus
U shouldn't have to wonder that
steep obsidian
and it ticks over 2 secs instead of 3
but who knows at this point numbers wise it just all feelycraft
so pointless
steep obsidian
i thought they tuned crimson tempest in a recent build too
steep obsidian
i heard that gear is locked in m+ currently on beta is that right?
or is someone just talking crap
strange python
330
plain thistle
wtf boys
the same dude got a 100k above tyra on immonar too 🤔
6.6M antoran, every log on 05/may , fucking hell
dusky fulcrum
Hello, i'm a mythic raider that recently resubbed after a long hiatus and decided to reroll a rogue and just dinged 110, what specc should i start out with? (I aim to clear mythic antorus and get some m+20 before bfa launch) also sorry if this is wrong thread to ask this, im quite new to discord.
supple hearth
@dusky fulcrum probably not likely to clear mythic antorus in 3 months if youre just now starting out on that character. its possible but not very likely. IF that is your goal though you probably want to go assassination
strange python
assassination most popular raiding spec by far
dusky fulcrum
i checked warcraftlogs and saw assa is high on antorus but barely any seen on mythic+ ladder, does it still preform well in m+?
I'm going to first clear antorus with my guild on my warlock that i played before the hiatus, we're currently 9/11 so basically when my rogue is ready to pull his own weight i'll get it done on him aswell. no boosting. basically want to make it my (now alt, in bfa main) and i want it to carry itself forward
supple hearth
sub is best for m+
drifting crypt
you can always clear antorus for a small fee of about 7M gold 😏
dusky fulcrum
i got the mates to get it done for sure, but i want my rogue to actually do its part and not get boosted by others
supple hearth
If youre going to main rogue in BFA you're going to be playing all the specs so I'd just look at it from that perspective. Youre only limiting yourself if you choose a specific spec
dusky fulcrum
i will for sure play atleast 2 speccs, but seeing as you have (2?) fast legendaries i'd like to aim for a "tricks of trade" specc first
supple hearth
well i mean if youre farming them you can be getting ~3 legendaries every 2 weeks from essences alone
dusky fulcrum
i saw that sub is somewhat competetive in antorus but really strong in m+, so i was leaning towards that
drifting crypt
sub really laggs behind assa on most bosses in antorus
dusky fulcrum
That's true, but before i get the bis leggos etc what specc would be enough to carry itself aslong as it has a high enough ilvl?
im told the "sub boots" era is over for most speccs, is that true?
supple hearth
all three are about the same when it comes to needing legendaries. Youre not going to be doing very nice dps without a nice legendary set up regardless of ilvl.
dusky fulcrum
alright, is the 2 legendary thingie for all 3 speccs btw?
supple hearth
like i said if you just want to do raids go sin. if you want to focus on m+ go sub. if you want to do both you need to really be looking at playing both and not just one.
dusky fulcrum
so like after i get my first 2 from drops (not essences) i swap loot specc to 1 of the other 2 to get faster legendaries?
supple hearth
first 2 regardless of spec are higher % drop but still rng. the spec swap depends on what legendaries you get. if your first two are sin ONLY legendaries and you swap then you have a decent chance at getting a sub one quick. if you get a rogue wide legendary it resets all specs
dusky fulcrum
ah alright
supple hearth
but the third legendary regardless is going to take longer than the first two
drifting crypt
essences is your main source for legendaries
supple hearth
^
supple hearth
assuming you're min-maxing I would aim for getting the 3 every 2 weeks
dusky fulcrum
ye for sure!
supple hearth
that requires youre doing RBGs and rated pvp too though
drifting crypt
i recently started a feral druid, and about 3 out of 9 legos are from drops
dusky fulcrum
i dont think i can do rbgs, but for sure can grind the 1500 honor in arenas
supple hearth
RBGs is quicker than arena imo just need 2 wins
if youre going for honor cap in both 2s and 3s its going to take a couple hours each week
dusky fulcrum
my last rogue PVP exp was 2k on warmane's tbc server, which is totally different to live rogues. so i am nowhere close to beeing decent in legion just yet
supple hearth
RBGs can be done in like 20m
dusky fulcrum
oh just 2 wins?
drifting crypt
"if" you win ^^
dusky fulcrum
might try that then
supple hearth
🤷 just dont lose lol
drifting crypt
😄
dusky fulcrum
i havent unlocked my assa weapons yet tho, i got a random dh invite me and boosted me from 107 to 110 xD
gotta get that and then i have all 3
i guess farming relic wq's is prio 1
supple hearth
thats if youre farming leggendaries lol if youre not willing to do the pvp then you dont want the lgendaries bad enough. IF hes really trying to get cutting edge in the next 3 months thats what hes going to need to do to min-max
assuming hes not getting carried
dusky fulcrum
I never accept carry in actual lategame content, boosting lvls is fine imo 😛
since game is based around max lvl
supple hearth
@steep obsidian thats really dumb btw if you can't swap gear in m+ on beta
hopefully thats not a thing
steep obsidian
i havent done any myself giggle
drifting crypt
they disabled m+ in beta atm
steep obsidian
i probably will next week
or when they open again
ahhh ok
it was probably something someone saw on stream
one of my friends mentioned it
drifting crypt
i havent done any myself, but they removed the keystone socket in mythic dungeons
since you only got 300 gear from m+
steep obsidian
yeah makes sense
they might tune stuff a little bit before worrying about proper focused + testing
although they doing raids
plain thistle
did they fixed zuldazar starting questline? or you still cant get the neck on beta right now?
drifting crypt
idk, are you playing maghar orc?
steep obsidian
my toon has the neck but can't upgrade it with the next part of the campaign
so i cant get enough ap to actually unlock traits on my good azurite piece
a lot of stuff is bugged as hell dunno if recreating fixes it all
drifting crypt
the funny thing is, on mythic azerite armor you cant select any traits, they just require "0"
and the heroic pieces all require 16-20 or some shit
who is gonna farm so much on beta?
plain thistle
not fixed 😦
at least I already did that quest on my rogue, but I really dont want to play rogue on beta right now
steep obsidian
yeah i sorta felt the same
im not sure if ill even bother to level another toon
i got a rogue to 115 before they wiped everything
dusky fulcrum
i feel so ashamed that i got bfa beta invite 3 days after resubbing
i dont even know what is "new" since i've not played since 7.2
sand whale
I suggest you not play live to save yourself all the disappointment
dusky fulcrum
current patch is worse than 7.2 you mean or?
sand whale
nah because your rogue will feel better on live until bfa comes out 😉 I'd just play bfa
dusky fulcrum
oh, so its worse in bfa? 😮
dusky fulcrum
isnt the new neck system the same thing as artifacts?
strange python
the neck is an artifact, and it gets artifact power, but it's not like legion artifacts
teal coral
Hello was wondering if any1 could make me a weakaura for just rupture cant seem to get it right
teal coral
okey thanks will have a look
steep obsidian
best thing to do is just import one and fiddle
you will see how the basic ones work
strange python
monkaS
steep obsidian
he hacked in a poison bomb button
vapid moth
question
is the lock shitting me when he gets a 940 gnawed and says he needs it but he is already using sephuz and a 960 ring
sand whale
depends how bad his 2nd ring is that's not a leggo
strange python
check his 2nd ring
vapid moth
yes it could very possibly have the worst stats for locks. but its 960. he already left the group
time to check armory
sand whale
there's few ocassions you don't run any leggo rings as a lock
so chances are he has a really shit ring somewhere
strange python
very few
vapid moth
but its 960. so i think the ilvl outweighs the stats
either way that 940 gnawed woulda replaced my 940 mastery vers
strange python
ur talking about that arcway ring right?
strange python
are you playing sub or sin
strange python
damn i thought u were playing sub
got confused
either way
that ring is far better for lock than it is for sin
so i can see why he kept it
marble hemlock
wtf is all that blue in my assa chan?
plain thistle
in your ass?
warm parcel
Interesting to see d3 like meta come out of mdi
marble hemlock
all the sub rogues deserting again
warm parcel
Like perma eye beam and fire mage do remind me of d3 ways
shut wind
was wondering if someone could post stat weights cant find them anywhere 😦 not sure where to look
sand whale
demon hunter, the new archon wizards
plain thistle
yes
viscid helm
i hate the white people here
exotic glen
i hate all people here
plain thistle
ops
strange python
now thats racist
glad ferry
Ik Blindside is better when only used on procs. but between Master poisoner and Blindside which one is btter right now
undone blade
Is assa fun to play on beta?
exotic glen
nothing is fun to play on beta
undone blade
Arms is
exotic glen
im not talking class design
exotic glen
too much inputlag for me, so i feel like i cant tell how the flow of the spec is
using wrong spells sometimes, horrible uptimes etc
strange python
I like it
chilly sphinx
whats the different between bloodbuild and poison? is it just the opener? 
strange python
it's not so bad.
undone blade
Buy better keyboard
exotic glen
nice meme
glad ferry
sooo no one answered my question
exotic glen
because i dont know mate
undone blade
Ty
exotic glen
i think master poisoner is better, but dont take it as gospel
glad ferry
and I will assume exsang is going to be better with a lot of haste
exotic glen
maybe, could lead to a ton of overcapping
exotic glen
idk why you think thats funny
viscid helm
BFA is 💩
strange python
well thats pretty funny
considering no class tuning has been made
and most numbers for most classes are not official
and most of them will change
so every spec is fine, because it can just be tuned
there will be changes to the numbers no doubt
viscid helm
#ConsoleGame
strange python
so simming anything right now is pretty irrelevant
strange python
well he said he read sims for blindside
viscid helm
that is an DPS loss vs not picking it
strange python
so its about numbers am i wrong
viscid helm
There's no fixing bfa
strange python
all im saying that simming right now is pitty because the numbers might change
strange python
and what looks like shit on sim right now may be our go-to talent when bfa is released
exotic glen
then we can praise the ability when its not shit
but that isnt the situation right now
viscid helm
So what u are saying is that TC'ing rn is pointless
strange python
beta is to test stuff and tell them if its shit or not
strange python
i havent said anything about TC
exotic glen
you said simming is useless
strange python
lol
strange python
this guy needs lad
vapid moth
my guild wants to do timewalking stead of mythic raiding lol
lmao
guess im not raiding tomorrow
orchid prawn
blizz pls we dont want new raids just make more TW of old raids
zealous dew
bt tw is awesome, can't wait to do it on 7 alts
zealous dew
not worth it, for a normal item and a AP seal
safe matrix
I was helping out guildies
strange python
i wiped on supremus for 1h
safe matrix
it would've been fine for gearing an alt
strange python
and group disbanded
sand whale
did you pug, how do you even wipe in BT TW
sand whale
I'm both offended and amused
zealous dew
how do you say more dots
strange python
exotic glen
mein wasser
safe matrix
google translate bb
fervent beacon
exotic glen
when i had german in school i couldnt say a single sentence, but somehow nailed the accent no problem
safe matrix
and dungeons, you get stun locked for like 15 seconds in some
strange python
let the plebs cry
sand whale
pfft raggy was just finding 3 top healers and bdks
sand whale
I remember tanking mimiron before they fixed his pathing tho
exotic glen
wouldnt wish that on my worst enemy, wazon
sand whale
think just normal level just seems easier coz class toolkits have expanded since then
civic palm
The scaling in TW isn't so dramatic that there are not things that won't just murder you though.
shell canopy
Hey guys. Just a quick question. Does the poison build have a Mastery cap? I'm at 199% now, Stat Weights still puts it slightly ahead of crit even though i only got 23%.
dire spoke
No
shell canopy
So, just stack more Mastery as long as my stat weights tell me to?
And Top Gear sim.
dire spoke
The build gets easier to play on higher ilvl due to mutilate crits and >30% crit stat
Assuming you wear mantle already, it's the reason your crit is dumped
shell canopy
Yea, Mantle+Bracers
dire spoke
there you go
novel island
Go go mastery, at my max I had like 223%
sand whale
there's a point where crit edges out if you only have mastery/vers off pieces but not by much but in practice I've found it much more enjoyable with more crit at the cost of some mastery
shell canopy
Alright. Thanks guys!
exotic glen
@dusty hull just answering here since you cant discuss things in-depth in that other channel
people use sub in mdi because its consistent burst aoe and those teams are playing into the strengths of sub by pulling extra mobs on the boss to abuse shuriken storm > finisher for big dick ST dps
since you cant abuse sub like this in raids, sin pulls ahead
strange python
l o l
dusty hull
I can get behind the idea of Sin -> long fights, Sub -> short fights because ondemand burst is really nice, and DoTs are best when they can tick forever, but where is the cut when mobs live long enough in M+ for Sin to be better ?
exotic glen
what have i done
i can accept that
@dusty hull you cant really pack it in like that, you have to realise that rogues m+ dps is kinda limited because we dont have consistent trash aoe like monks
safe matrix
just use more poison bombs looooooooooooool 4Head
exotic glen
so the strengths of both specs are
sub: big ST dps if your team can help you abuse the finishers and on a one-time use aoe cd
sin: big ST dps with more potential aoe dps than sub if you get lucky
strange python
ct would be cool on live
dusty hull
I am just trying to find the right spec for the remaining few months so I can feel good going into BfA since I am doubtful of Blizzard's RNG getting any more favorable towards players joining late
strange python
^
exotic glen
^
safe matrix
^
strange python
try all 3 and pick the one that gives you most satisfaction
strange python
^
lost horizon
Imma go reroll
safe matrix
do it binch
lost horizon
Fite me irl
dusty hull
I leveled a rogue from 1 to 110 as Outlaw (alliance) didn't like it, switched to horde some 6 months back, leveling as sub from 1-60 then used my pre order bonus 😄 I have been 110 since friday, playing sub.
exotic glen
@dusty hull im just trying to say that the "best" dps spec will be dependent on your team as much as you
dusty hull
I will try out Sin a few days, but it's going to be painful with no relics or AP again XD
strange python
yes
exotic glen
bis talent
exotic glen
but goremaw doesnt even bite the enemies ankles
safe matrix
yeah, I legitimately think that goremaws bite is a likely possibility
I think shadow reflection is another
cause akaari's shadow
strange python
theres no way they take away dfa and give goremaw like talent in return
its just not possible
strange python
master of goremaws pog
lone junco
Werps
strange python
which words
viscid helm
the R word
supple hearth
Ravenholdt gets fancy and says all this with "don't use pejoratives"
viscid helm
supple hearth
^^ its okay. now you know
strange python
removed it
supple hearth
wow tysm!
strange python
np my lvoe
supple hearth
xoxo
strange python
fallen sandal
is it normal that boots + insigna is simmed higher than boots bracer in poison build for me ?
rose ember
Question, whats the best horde race for rogue? overall pve
strange python
pretty minimal difference
you wont notice it in dps
you should pick one you like
safe matrix
also BfA changes racials and scalings
exotic glen
Belf currently
safe matrix
go for cosmetics/utility m8
strange python
was belf racial changed
safe matrix
ye
strange python
or is it in bfa
rose ember
hmm yeah im split with nightborne or be
safe matrix
yeah, but nightblade
strange python
nightborne because they are cooler
strange python
i actually sim higher as nightborne for some reason
@rose ember just pick whatever you like most
strange python
its really not important in terms of dmg
but then you dont get the sweet nightborne heritage armor
i dont like nightborne that much
u wot
i wish horde got iron dwarf
imo
nightborne fits in alliance better than in horde
how dare you have opinions
maybe but tyrande told them to h*ck off
tyrande is a b
hope she dies in bfa
lmao
i dont like whta they did with her in legion
especially how she reacted to illidans letter
or message
cold b
opaque cosmos
that was pretty uncharacteristically heinous of her
strange python
i understand malfurions 'whatever' about illidan
but her?
did blizzard forget about wc3
wops i need to delete it
oh I should change mine too.
sand whale
illidan forever trapped in the friendzone
strange python
for ten thousand years
he's been reincarnated as a giant frog in nazmir
illidan is a panda
manic vigil
safe matrix
@ moderators
safe matrix
thanks gagglebrush
strange python
traitor
manic vigil
hit him with the ban hammer giggeeeeellll
safe matrix
manic vigil
do it NOW
supple hearth
Liavre next in line to be mod imo
safe matrix
thanks boo
manic vigil
angry bird mod 
strange python
this is tyrande's fault
safe matrix
it is my goal to become mod so I can ban all pandas from ravenholdt
manic vigil
safe matrix
#makeravenholdtpandafreeagain
manic vigil
where do I sign ?¿
sand whale
inb4 bfa food buff bis
strange python
thats racist
manic vigil
no U
dusty hull
Quick question about the builds. I am sure legendaries need some working around, but since I have none shrug. I am guessing the Bleed Build from the Pins is optimized for high end raiding, whereas Poison builds are more/equal at lower i lvls, or how close are the two builds ?
whole dew
poison build
safe matrix
bleed build is much harder to gear for
poison build has a lower average dps, but not by much at like 980 ilvl
but it can do better
cause poison bomb swings it more
for m+ don't even think of bleed build
dusty hull
okay, thanks 😄 (i was secretly looking for a reason to play poison build because i like it more)
whole dew
only use shoulder and bracer ( zoldyck)
whole dew
yeah but for example on bigpulls how to optimized burst dmge
sand whale
you don't lol
you can equip aoe trinket IF you really want burst
just pray pb procs
that's about it
whole dew
uhmmm for example what trinket ? i only use Shadow-Singed Fang and Golganneth's Vitality
😰
marble hemlock
keep those unless you happen to have a very high ilvl engine of eradication or a mastery statstick
whole dew
stats: crit 28%, haste 4% , mastery 223% , versa 12%
marble hemlock
statprio for trash-dps is mastery>versa>crit>agi>haste
so you got pretty good stats
marble hemlock
just try to maintain high envenom/virulent poisons uptimes while rupturing enough to be able to use abiltiies every gcd without running out of energy
hollow plover
what is the name poison bomb add on write th chat
marble hemlock
that in itself is decent enough aoe, if you get a bombproc or two you can keep up with some of the good aoe classes
sand whale
if you end up using aoe trinkets you're gonna gimp your overall aoe anyway so you might as well just pray for pb
marble hemlock
theres no way youre ever going to beat a monk or bumkin tho
sand whale
but if you use aoe trinkets on low keys sure that'll work
prime void
whole dew
yeah
marble hemlock
im running 20% crit for aoe, 40% for singletarget
crit is heavily devalued in an aoe setting since youre capping energy all the time anyway, atleast on bigger packs
marble hemlock
so yeah, your gear is looking good, maybe get another vers/mastery ring instead of the kingaroth one, and just pay attention to your buff uptimes
whole dew
Ssf and golganeth for ST . ; nexo + golganeth for aoe
marble hemlock
youre never going to be able to pull crazy numbers on aoe
but thats not your job anyway, so yeah
id generally suggest playing mantle+boots for singletarget
so youre not locked into delaying vendetta just so it lines up with the execute
or even move away from mantle entirely so you can use vanish on trash instead of bosses
how viable these options are depends heavily on your non-legendary pieces
but with that gear you can easily do 20+ keys
whole dew
ty vm
mossy hazel
So simming leggos, is it legit to just play what's higher dps with those?
I've been running wrist shoulder, but I just simmed wrist boots and it's a decent bit higher
But I'm SCARED of not having my shoulder buff I've had it so long. Lol...
whole dew
high crit for ST / only raid and low crit + more mastery + more versa for aoe
gusty plinth
so mantle+boots for st and mantle+wrists for aoe?
lone junco
@marble hemlock I really hope they push a penalty for large pulls in bfa m+. 5mobs is our avg prob. And the stun chains that allow 20x are silly.
But with anything they do, will be ways to cheese it.
shrewd night
Going back to the TBC days in terms of threat would do wonders for that very problem
That a BDK can grip everything, gtfo and still keep aggro after 20 seconds is banjo
stark heart
What's the problem of big pulls?
stuck pine
nerds
steep obsidian
@lone junco part of that is the mobs just blindly chasing someone who is 40 yards away instead of doing other things i think they worked on the ai to not do that, trash in bfa dung seems to have a lot of dangerous abilities that work together too lots of self buffs and things interacting with other things or the environment to kill you
it feels like they designed more with m+ in mind this time but the way scaling works we porbalby will still see big pulls at some point
vapid moth
Inb4 half of the mobs are immune to stuns and slows
still horizon
Hey is there a mod or someone that can talk to me about my logs thoroughly
supple hearth
Post them here
wise frigate
Just post the logs and someone will rip em apart eventually.
still horizon
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/caelestrasz/Acero if anyone willing to tell me what im doing wrong and how to improve, much appreciated
pastel crystal
proc more poison bomb
fiery nest
lol
zealous dew
envenom dropping under kingsbane, not using kb on cd, 2nd vanish only 2 envenoms, 2nd pot after 2nd vanish
(garothi)
steep obsidian
to simplify that pool energy more you are spamming your buttons that isnt how sin plays most of the time
you are just spamming away all your energy when there is no point to
open reef
Hello, already got beta. Whats Your feelings about Assa in bfa so far?
humble crane
Outlaw currently feels way better
open reef
Hmm its due to stats scale?
sharp viper
both feel insanely slow but i only tried it at 110 and shit stats
green plume
From a M+ point of view im interested to see how strong having nightstalker/mfd/crimson tempest on the start of every pack will play out
viscid helm
Nightstalker hardly adds anything to that combo
green plume
I see, I thought the damage would snapshot on crimson tempest, or are you saying the damage is too low on that ability for +50% to matter?
viscid helm
CT has an intial hit
so in AoE you would just spam fok and CT
the Nightstalker snapshot isnt strong enough to beat just spamming fok and CT
safe matrix
What's the cd on CT or does it not have one
viscid helm
it doesnt have cd
green plume
that's a good point, I hadn't thought of that
safe matrix
Would the bleed snapshot though? Or just the initial hit?
green plume
my thinking was nightstalker buff the CT, then put rupture a few targets and then refresh CT at the end of the 12 seconds
I just tested it, looks like the bleed snapshots
let me double check
viscid helm
I dont actually know, i'd assume only the intial hit
safe matrix
Like let's say they change numbers, reduce the initial hit by a lot
viscid helm
would use the Nightstalker
safe matrix
It would be interesting to see the interaction
viscid helm
it could just treat it as 1 spell
green plume
ticking for 270, 400 if i use it from stealth
viscid helm
intial hit + bleed
green plume
so it is snapshotting currently
safe matrix
Well there we go
green plume
I like it with elaborate planning too
safe matrix
Elaborate planning seems fantastic with AoE
green plume
too early to say right now - since sub is missing 2 talents, but i might just jump on the sin train for m+ in bfa 😄
viscid helm
doubt there is anything that can fix sub at this point
green plume
im hopeful that dfa will be made baseline (or a variant of it) and the two new talents offer something competetive
safe matrix
Yeah, no single spell. It's gonna take atleast a couple changes to make sub fun
marble hemlock
problem is that theres nothing else you can spend your CP on that would be better for aoe than just spamming CT
so the ns+ct snapshot doesnt really matter
green plume
you reckon spreading a few ruptures out at the wouldn't be worth it?
safe matrix
I mean to be fair, numbers can be changed
green plume
at the start*
viscid helm
well rn
the intial hit is 1/3 of the bleed
to make NS CT worth
they would literally need to remove the intial hit
marble hemlock
obviously numnbers can be changed, but as it stands right now, theres no opportunity cost to spamming CT
sure, you could rupture a few mobs instead, but thats not going to be even close to competitive dps-wise to just spamming CT, atleast in aoe situations with like 5+ mobs
safe matrix
But at some point the initial hit would hit less than a rupture
So you snapshot ct and start multidotting
marble hemlock
now, im not exactly sure on how energy regen looks like in aoe situations on beta right now, so having a few ruptures for energy sustain might be necessary to optimize aoe dps
marble hemlock
well, comparing rupture to anything id always consider it to be a 5cp rupture ticking full duration, and the player has to decide whether that is actually going to be the case
but as you said, the pack doesnt have to be incredibly large for CT to be the sole finisher youll be using
not with the numbers being tuned like they are right now
marble hemlock
they could remove part of the initial hit and just move that into the dot
viscid helm
you do get the buff
marble hemlock
but im not exactly sure if that would be a good thing
viscid helm
perhaps
marble hemlock
say what you will, but the current aoe playstyle is a lot more fun than just spamming fok, fok, ct, fok fok, ct
safe matrix
I mean as little as it is, the dot scales with haste and I don't think the initial hit scales with anything
Except agi
marble hemlock
vers, agi
not sure if the ap scaling on the dot and initial hit are the same
but yes, there might be a point where the dot part gets boosted by secondaries enough to be better than the initial hit
but again
what else are you going to spend your CP on?
if the dot becomes stronger, nothing changes
safe matrix
They could sort out the problem by adding a much higher agi scaling to the dot
marble hemlock
its not about the CT dot
safe matrix
That way it's solid for levelinhg
marble hemlock
you get that either way
theyd have to significantly buff envenom/rupture
so we want to incorporate it into our aoe rotation between CT uses
as in, we just maintain CT dot and multi-rupture
changing the CT dot would not lead to any of that
it would just make it feel even worse
to constantly refresh the ct dot pre-pandemic
(assuming it pandemics in the first place)
viscid helm
it does
marble hemlock
so yeah
as it stands right now, wed be spamming fok and ct for aoe, with nothing else weaved in there
pop vendetta on a high prio target and melee it while we spam those 2 spells
safe matrix
I forgot about melees
marble hemlock
and maybe, just maybe, put a rupture on it aswell
safe matrix
And how hard they're hitting right now
marble hemlock
whats the energy regen like on beta right now? is it even possible to spam fok, or do we have significant wait-times in an aoe situation (5+ mobs)
viscid helm
its pretty bad
def cant just spam
non stop
and this was in raid testing
so 330ilvl
marble hemlock
not sure on the numbers right now, whats the energy regen on rupture tick?
green plume
7
marble hemlock
7?
marble hemlock
so yeah... maybe theres a chance multi-rupturing may be worthwhile to be able to spam more fok/ct