what is this
#assassination
viscid helm
shrewd night
solid nova
Why do you never speak from experience 
shrewd night
Everyone after top3 are shitters anyways
echo estuary
wat is this heroic ive only done LFR
solid nova
LFR is the new way to test BFA btw
echo estuary
can i still go afk on heroic?
solid nova
If you dont have beta
strange python
Rogue
viscid helm
UH sounds juicy
viscid helm
nice
u dont need to do scen
jesus
u clueless
idiot
probably
but you still dont need to do scen
warm parcel
Mh
shrewd night
The new BFA insult
viscid helm
can u play rogue tonight
shrewd night
viscid helm
so i dont have to
viscid helm
nice
shrewd night
But its the bfa insult
Or is it really an insult
if you tell them to get the azerite neck
supple hearth
Yeahhhh that's not going to be a thing here sorry
wise frigate
Giggle "No Fun" Blush is on the case!
echo estuary
stop at once, filthy mcdonalds employee
viscid helm
dude
warm parcel
Naa. I cast 3 raw lances in a row
keen inlet
KYS is not tolerated here (or in Discord TOS) and any variance on it, meme/"funny" or not, won't be either.
And it's really just that simple. No debate.
echo estuary
i agree, someone can get hurt
shrewd night
Said what
viscid helm
shrewd night
echo estuary
trump supporter confirmed
shrewd night
Just talking out of his ass as usual 
woeful prawn
Hey friends, quick question. Does Cloak remove stacks of Crushing Fear gained from standing alone on Mythic Argus?
marble hemlock
yes
shrewd night
It removes stacks, it doesnt remove the debuff itself
marble hemlock
also
woeful prawn
Yep sweet as I thought. Thank you for confirming!
shrewd night
YE
woeful prawn
FeelsBadMan
woeful prawn
I just want your love
shrewd night
Song lyrics wont help you here, son
marble hemlock
off
shrewd night
marble hemlock
want our love? become something else than sub
shrewd night
gugglebash gun getchu
marble hemlock
yellow color is fine, cause we just assume its for alacrity
strange python
Oof
marble hemlock
white privilege
strange python
Wait
viscid helm
strange python
Now seli is blue
strange python
Heh
marble hemlock
how do i even change colors?
shrewd night
strange python
I dunno
marble hemlock
like, is there a channel for a command, or is it just when some mod is trolling
strange python
<message deleted>
shrewd night
We are all a result of mod trolling
marble hemlock
the catty one
woeful prawn
Quality trolls
marble hemlock
and here i thought us cat-avatar people would stick together
strange python
Tbh if you like cats then are you even human?
marble hemlock
cats are awesome
woeful prawn
But seriously thanks for confirming, I thought it worked that way but needed to know for sure for the 'escorting' now I know I can just leg it with blight + fear and cloak
strange python
Delete what
is better
strange python
How can you like cats
woeful prawn
Mostly cos cats claw me
strange python
Cade b gone
marble hemlock
someone doesnt like pussy ๐ฆ
strange python
Oof
lone junco
๐
marble hemlock
didnt flowi say he'll reroll to kitty?
strange python
I think
fast nacelle
@lone junco ๐ ๐
viscid helm
i'm not allowed mate
marble hemlock
unluck
viscid helm
stuck with this trash
shrewd night
@marble hemlock slightly relevant https://youtu.be/fxsRwt_sh_k?t=5m46s
solid nova
Who doesnt like cats 
marble hemlock
mice?
viscid helm
i hate my cat
marble hemlock
same actually
like, i hate mine
not yours
yours is probably awesome
all cats are
marble hemlock
because they dont give a fuck
solid nova
xoxo
manic vigil
Flowi 
solid nova
Exactly
manic vigil
Even his cat 
viscid helm
lmao
solid nova
Can only see his hand sorry
marble hemlock
good one
solid nova
โค
manic vigil
marble hemlock
nova
solid nova
Its the paws im telling you
strange python
marble hemlock
white socks best
strange python
Thats my dumb ass cat
solid nova
Like if i end up single when im an old man
I have no issue being a crazy cat man
๐คท๐ผ
marble hemlock
nothing crazy about having multiple cats
solid nova
๐ thats a brilliant picture
woeful prawn
Look at that face. How can you not love.
zealous dew
dog = sub, cat = sin
solid nova
Outlaw = ?
zealous dew
what's outlaw ?
woeful prawn
Fish
marble hemlock
nah
solid nova
I've never had a fish tbh
marble hemlock
combat is like
woeful prawn
Cos they're sleeping with them.
marble hemlock
that bird owner
woeful prawn
Cos pirate
solid nova
Parrot?
woeful prawn
Budgie
strange python
Thats my dog
marble hemlock
you have a cat and a dog?
solid nova
He's day dreaming fam
strange python
I have a cat and 2 dogs
zealous dew
he' prob swaps sin to sub for dungeons
solid nova
The cat is cool with the dogs?
strange python
Yeah
strange python
Theres other dog like 6 months ago
marble hemlock
woof
bright vortex
anyone know if gorshalachs legacy has any use in m+ for sin?
manic vigil
seli
vapid moth
It has no use for sin. Unless you got a 985 one I guess
bright vortex
cheers, thought it was fairly trash.
bright vortex
any particular trinkets favored for m+ big aoe? assuming glaives or something that i can use with shoulders?
shrewd night
Glaives and void stalker if you got vanish macros set up afaik
plucky ember
now if could just get a fucking neck at that ilvl, that actually works fine for sin
solid nova
Whats your current neck?
plucky ember
945 collar of null flame
shrewd night
That neck works fine for sin tho
solid nova
Surely that TF is better?
shrewd night
???
plucky ember
Mmmaybe
solid nova
Mastery/Vers v Crit/Vers
shrewd night
Sounds like you haven't simmed yourself
solid nova
945 v 975
shrewd night
๐คฆ
solid nova
No chance your 945 neck pulls ahead
solid nova
Yeah but as he has 945 ๐คท๐ผ
plucky ember
i havent simed it yet
shrewd night
Uuuuugh
plucky ember
on it
solid nova
It's alright, i got a 960 one to compare it to ๐
jovial kite
solid nova
Sims already pending
shrewd night
It is not the end of the world if a piece doesn't have mastery ๐คฆ
That's about as polite as I can be rn
shrewd night
Nah speaking from my ass
jovial kite
if we are assuming
solid nova
Lmfao
jovial kite
Crit could be his best stat if he has 5%
solid nova
So a 960 null vs 975 that you got
jovial kite
So it could actually be his bis neck
plucky ember
who only have 5% crit.....that would be wierd
solid nova
Well whats your definition of "fine for sin"
In terms of the neck
As neither of them are crit/mastery
jovial kite
jovial kite
crit vers is not the end of the world
jovial kite
its pretty solid for ep builds
drifting cloud
you simmed without enchant.
solid nova
Gear compare?
plucky ember
i did
solid nova
Enchant it?
solid nova
As sin
shrewd night
what is this
marble hemlock
toptier meme sim
drifting cloud
enchant is 30k~ alone lol
hoary copper
How to sim 101...
plucky ember
im not useing that
solid nova
Look at your sim
cursive hatch
nice talents
shrewd night
If youre not using that, why you simming with it??
solid nova
Hello?
hoary copper
new meta for sin
plucky ember
yeah im not sure what the fuck happend there
shrewd night
E X P O S E D
marble hemlock
everyone so 
plucky ember
holy shit
marble hemlock
that feel when your first 5 finishers all proc bomb
i always feel kinda guilty when it happens
cursive hatch
wait, for what?
sullen mountain
solid nova
Change the talents in the sim?
cursive hatch
are you using a /simc export? Is that up to date? Manually change the talents to be right?
plucky ember
yep im useing the /simc export, testing out a proper sim now, instead of that broken quicksim
solid nova
Im using quick sim in gear comparison now for you
shrewd night
They are uh
solid nova
Works fine
shrewd night
The sam
solid nova
Idk what you're doing
shrewd night
*e
plucky ember
thank you
hoary copper
Not all heroes wear capes
plucky ember
dont understand why i need to act like i was rude but sure
that is a big diffrence in dps i see
solid nova
Because you were telling people earlier to speak from experience and not out of their asses
Ironic ๐คท๐ผ
solid nova
29k is worth the swap at that sim total dps, yes.
solid nova
The sim comparison I did for you includes the enchant too
plucky ember
ah
supple hearth
Richard for mod
hoary copper
Despot Richard
hoary copper
๐
brisk forge
You arent that toxic ๐ค
solid nova
Is it going to be "perjoratives" in the #rules-and-guides forever?
Zempai will be furious that it's still there
light sage
whats imonar m intermission timestamps?
warm parcel
whats your dps
marble hemlock
ill take "weird question of the day" for 200$
solid nova
Spelling errors are a serious issue
marble hemlock
yes they are
and @light sage it simply depends on both your raid-dps and the time it takes your raid to finish one bridge
so it could be 1min30, could be 1min, could be 2min (at which point your dps sucks and youre not going to kill the boss)
so the only way to plan your cooldowns properly is by looking at your guilds logs and see what the timestamps were in a previous kill
supple hearth
I asked paryah to edit the post. Why do u guys bully me qq
marble hemlock
because you let it happen?
steep obsidian
the % for the transitions for immonar are in the dungeon journal
but no one ever reads that thing
marble hemlock
yeah well
hitting 80%
can be quite similar depending on raid
some may take 30secs, other 40
bridge can take 20-40secs depending on raid
so you get into phase2 between 50-80sec after pull, which is too big a window to plan around
steep obsidian
ahuh
marble hemlock
and he wanted timestamps, not know at which percentage the boss transitions
steep obsidian
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
spare cloud
Giggle is throwing mod recommendations around like people throw around with perjoratives
dire spoke
supple hearth
@solid nova pejoratives has been fixed
cursive hatch
@spare cloud You are all terrible at mentions.
supple hearth
@spare cloud
spare cloud
hoary copper
Apparently only Richard and Slagg have issues pinging @spare cloud
supple hearth
Dont spam it though ๐ฑ
manic vigil
spare cloud
So I can protect myself against such pings
hoary copper
Unless you're Don
vernal adder
@steep obsidian hi
solar willow
rogo in my guild got booted and now i'm an alone rogo help me
vernal adder
good
hoary copper
Is that why you're blue?
keen inlet
keen inlet
not accurate
I got dms every day asking how he wasn't banned yet
ban him
"omg why did Tom get banned"
anyway
OFF TOPIC.
normal plover
do we enjoy beta assassination spec?
keen inlet
I don't. Feels slow with less even than live
Talking about this in another discord but rn on beta rogue doesn't feel as good as many other specs
normal plover
due to design or lack of stats?
normal plover
even with dispatch? thats disappointing
keen inlet
outlaw/sin don't feel great, they feel clunky and awkward. Which means that with stats they'll improve, most likely, but they're not going to reach levels of other specs
(maybe numbers-wise they will. But band-aiding a troubled spec with stats just makes it functional, not fun)
normal plover
yeah they have been decent at keeping the numbers close between classes/specs lately
that doesnt help if its annoying to play though
glass compass
sin is getting dispatch back? I haven't been keeping up with alpha/beta changes.
balmy condor
yeah, as a row 1 talent
steep obsidian
rogues have always played like crap early expac until you get geared its a consistent thing not even sure if they actually can or want to fix it
charred crest
obtuse cedar
sim it lul
ripe nimbus
WW might flow better but they scale horribly with gear and they are already doing shit damage on beta
Sin and outlaw feel fine yall just a bunch of whiners
steep obsidian
i for one expect to be able to spam my buttons and crit every mutilate as soon as i ding 120 dont be silly
ripe nimbus
Do u also want 200% mastery?
plain thistle
no, you dont need 200% mastery O.o
spare cloud
keen inlet
Guess who's back
back again
Toph is back
@ him, friend
vital dew
Im gonna miss kingsbane in bfa :[
spare cloud
@gusty kestrel ๐
spare cloud
this is offtopic
all pings directed at me are to be removed unless they are in #off-topic
vapid moth
huh
zealous dew
moonkin damage balance i see
broken perch
is it me or is herodamages rogue strings broken?
broken perch
broken perch
yeah, i can add them manually but i would like to use that string ๐
hoary copper
lightspeed and then dark sorrows are under Chaotic Darkness
did you import to the crucible weight addon? Have you just tried raidbots
broken perch
yeah, that imgur link i wrote shows how string brakes the addon ๐
hoary copper
looks fine to me? The ones with out value...have no value?
cursive hatch
the addon still works
civic palm
Seems fine...
cursive hatch
the values look odd, but they are right
hoary copper
Make sure addon was updated....reminds me I need to update all of mine so I stop getting the broken message when I login
broken perch
so for example you guys have value for gushing wounds box something like "2.42 6:3.14 7:1.83"
civic palm
uhhuh
broken perch
๐
civic palm
No problems there.
broken perch
ok, cool
civic palm
The 6: and 7: are to denote the relic rank, the values after that are the values/weights.
plucky slate
What two Legos should I be using as an assassination rogue
vital dew
Im running cloak/shoulders for dungeons its quick and dirty
civic palm
excuse me ?
hoary copper
Whichever 2 sim highest for you Welwa
Helm/boots/shoulders/bracers are all fairly good
(more so the last 3)
vital dew
thats a big change if so O.O
plain thistle
yes, they changed leech poison
its no longer a non-lethal poison
is just a 1h buff
timber scroll
sometimes the loot gods smile upon you
zealous dew
shame, no 2 sockets
civic palm
Yeah not breaking, just let's us use Crippling everywhere.
zealous dew
we're cripples already in legion
exotic glen
raid testing poggers
lavish mason
what are the best trinkets for m+?
hoary copper
https://bloodmallet.github.io/#rogue_assassination_beastlord this gives a rough idea. This is not an absolute list, you should def sim this with your own personal gear
Especially with EoC where you shouldnt switch targets (unless you use mouseover)
lavish mason
thx
grizzled trail
finally got eye of command drop. was wondering if any1 had a mouse over rupture macro handy?
hoary copper
Its like any other mouseover macro, you can do
#showtooltip /cast [@mouseover, harm][] Rupture
grizzled trail
Im a noob for macros and stuff :). and should i just use that in place of my normal rupture. or do u guys run two keybings?
binds
hoary copper
I guess you prob dont need the harm, but you can add it if you want
sharp atlas
hey all, I'm trying to gather some tips for members of my raid team that look to be under performing. Our rogue is about 20% below where sims seem to indicate he should be and warcraft logs indicate he is way underperforming for his ilvl, I'm a Blood DK with no rogue experience so I can't really help him, here is last night's raid: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/j17dRbLZQcthpAg6 can anyone offer any tips?
hoary copper
You can probably do it either way, whichever way you prefer @grizzled trail . I dont use it because I have no need but its whatever you want
Mobile is horrible, but his opener is off @sharp atlas
exotic glen
@sharp atlas tell him to use cooldowns in this order vendetta > toxic blade > kingbane instead of what he is doing now
and stop using fan of knives in opener
hoary copper
Im giving up on mobile, but looks like hes not wearing shoulders
So should be garrote -> Mut -> rupture -> Vendetta - > tb ->kb -> Vanish + rupture -> mut -> env -> mut -> env
May want to point him to the guide.
!singuide
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
sharp atlas
@exotic glen seems like none of those CD timers line up, should he be holding toxic blade to use with kingbane? looks like hes getting an extra kingsbane between each vendetta
strange python
@sharp atlas His opener is all wrong, should be Garrote > Mut > Rupture > Vendetta > Toxic Blade > Kingsbane > Vanish > Envenom > Mut > Envenom > Mut > Envenom. His dots are sometimes falling of the boss which is a big no-no. He's wasting combo points with mutilate sometimes: never mutilate at 4cp. He's using fan of knives sometimes which doesn't make any sense on single target, his poison knives trait is only the default. His kingsbane uptime on mythic garothi was 29% which is very far below where it should be (40%+).
hoary copper
No, dont hold
exotic glen
they dont line up for him even in the opener when they are not on cd?
sharp atlas
i mean during the fight
hoary copper
Oh is he wearing shoulders?
strange python
He's using Vanish in the middle of nowhere. Should line up with vendetta and tb.
yes he is
hoary copper
fucking mobile
strange python
atleast on this mythic garothi log.
hoary copper
This mobile is the worst
strange python
yea it's bad but you can switch to desktop version no?
hoary copper
Work blocks it
strange python
oh
His crit is really low too. That must suck ass to play.
Less than 5k crit is yikers.
exotic glen
the best thing you can do for him is to refer him to the guide @sharp atlas
but just to sum it up, use cooldowns in the order i listed, especially in the opener. do mutilate > envenoms in the shoulder window, dont use fan of knives. vanish should line up with toxic blade and vendetta, do not use it without those
hoary copper
Fixing his opener will be a large increase, then using the cooldowns right and using vanish -> env. I cant see if hes using bracers but if not he should be using vanish -> env when its up, if he has them then he should use it as long as he can get another one in sub 30%
strange python
he also doesn't have any vendetta relics
hoary copper
or hold the vanish for sub 30% if he cant
sharp atlas
looks like hes stacking mastery, that apprently is wrong from what Connor is saying?
strange python
huh? Mastery is great, I don't know where you got that from
He just has low crit and low mastery to some extent
sharp atlas
from you saying that his crit was low?
strange python
oh, yeah, but you shouldn't give up mastery for crit in most cases
He should sim his statweights on raidbots.com and chances are crit will be above versatility
once he gets more crit it should feel a lot smoother to play
sharp atlas
i know he uses raid bots, i assume hes using the best gear he has, dunno
hoary copper
My crit is low, it feels like butt trust
strange python
how much crit is 4900 anyway
hoary copper
That sounds....really really low
How does a 969 fire mage only do 1m damage? no wrists?
strange python
probably
exotic glen
@sharp atlas you might just wanna refer him to this discord so he can come and chat himself
we wont bite, promise
hoary copper
Unless he likes it
exotic glen
๐
strange python
that mage does have wrists
I think you should maybe hop into the mage discord for him too
sharp atlas
im in all 12 discords haha
hoary copper
and druid
strange python
oh good, at least you are trying to help
hoary copper
that's good
strange python
He has kindling but he only used combustion once on hounds
exotic glen
i just looked at the log again and saw him doing garrote > rupture on pull monkaS
strange python
Or he used it right before the pull, which is also bad since he uses the firestarter talent, should wait after 90%
plain thistle
new meta bro
exotic glen
we have obviously been doing it wrong all along jhonwei
plain thistle
๐คท
strange python
Me thinks he is trying to get full pandemic rupture duration
but garrote > rupture > tb > kb > rupture won't even get the 31 seconds
hoary copper
also wastes a lot of heating up procs
exotic glen
wasting shoulders window 4Head
sharp atlas
well it's a bunch to chew on, thanks for the suggestions all, hopefully i can get him to come in here himself lol
hoary copper
Go to discord and improve or bench would work lol
vapid moth
does the leech poison crip poison also work in pvp?
granted damage in pvp is more regulated so it wouldnt have as strong of an effect
restive inlet
Boys, we're starting Argus mythic progress on monday. any tips for a young skillbomb believer?
trim dirge
Isnโt leeching poison in bfa only like 8% leech or something
plain thistle
@restive inlet dont die, kill the boss 
p1 boss doesnt target melee for the cone, everyone else can be targeted
pala healer and monk are considered melee
restive inlet
nice, ty!
plain thistle
you can use cloak to drop blight debuff, but careful to not drop on top of your raid ๐
civic palm
Leeching Poison in BFA is 12%
restive inlet
ahaha, they would love me:):) Yeah, I usually drop blight with cloak. There's no other smart use for it, apart from oh-shit moments?
plain thistle
leech is 10%, with master poisoner 12% ๐
trim dirge
Ah ok I thought it was nerfed for some reason
plain thistle
same for our slow poison, 50% without MP and 60% with
heavy plover
Can i talk about BFA in here or just assasination shit
This chat just seems more active than basic-questions
heavy plover
Cool, i know it's early days but what classes/specs looking strong for BFA?
I'm thinking lock will be strong again
assas, not so sure
plain thistle
number wise is impossible to know, thy can always change
trim dirge
Like you said too early to tell
heavy plover
Yeah that's what i meant but i mean like druid are always going to be viable, just wondered your thoughts
I feel like BFA will really show M+ in a good light
Maybe some rewards for higher keys
restive inlet
well, on that thought, rogue has three DPS specs. one of them at least is usually OK
vital dew
as long as they have Mythic+ versions of these island invasions ill be happy
heavy plover
that melee dmg tho
plain thistle
I really dont see blindside being good, yeah It does more damage than mutilate, but 1 combo point? cmon ๐ฆ
viscid helm
its not viable with current tuning
plain thistle
sure, with gear that can change
trim dirge
Not good right now but I hope it will be
plain thistle
really? isnt competing with toxic blade and exs? is TB that bad?
trim dirge
Also thatโs a lot of garrote damage
Was that on multiple adds
viscid helm
exang doesnt line rn
also no bota
TB is just simply bad
with the current rogue
due to it being so slow
paced
plain thistle
damn, venom rush just like boring and lackluster, 5 less energy is just meh
viscid helm
i could see TB being back to good talent in late expansion
yeh it is
but it makes the gameplay smoother
and seems to be the best output
trim dirge
Are they intentionally making every class slow as fuck I still canโt tell
trim dirge
Even my spriest is insanely slow now :(
plain thistle
raid test will be open tomorrow right? cant test today ๐ฆ
viscid helm
yeh again
something that affects TB
since you just dont get CP's
another thing is
PB
is p much useless with current tuning
plain thistle
and mastery, they changed and lower it ofc
plain thistle
so poison damage isnt super high
vestal wren
ppl whine if pb does to much damage, its now ~3% and you whine
plain thistle
which also doesnt favor TB
viscid helm
essentially making PB dead talent
vestal wren
you sure about pb vs. hb?
viscid helm
i can get FoK to same numbers as PB
its pretty much equal
PB just has downside
unlike HB
vestal wren
your log using the talent hat fok on <1% dps
viscid helm
vestal wren
or did you not use hb
viscid helm
if you are talking about todays test
vestal wren
on the screenshots you posted
viscid helm
no i didnt
vestal wren
oh okay
viscid helm
i was testing only PB today
ye nice waste of 15min
we actually survived 2 waves
with immunity abuse
idk it was guarm 2.0
vestal wren
i mean sim can tell you pb vs. hb easy
viscid helm
sure, from my testing the dmg output is equal but once again, PB has a downside that HB doesnt
i still havent found use for CT
tho
ye didnt test that
since it was just a server test
feral was a bit of a lackbuster
sadly
mighty star
Is Assassination any more complex in BFA?
viscid helm
well every class is at the level of BM hunter now
and extremely slow
getting ready for console release
mighty star
it's like vanilla without the complexity?
viscid helm
vanilla never had any complexity tho
hazy iron
Pb is just not interesting
marble hemlock
the way that "connect four" is a more complex game than tic tac toe?
vestal wren
sin is simpler then other rogue specs ๐
marble hemlock
yeah
i just think that a spec as simple as assa shouldnt be dumbed down even more
young briar
So I have a question. I have the legendary shoulders etc. When bursting is it better to use envenom with 4 CPs or use a FoK after every mutilate to make sure to have 5 during the shoulder buff phase. Just trying to think of ways to further push my dps
marble hemlock
4cp
vestal wren
i am not sure what you can do to dump bfa sin even more
young briar
thought so
marble hemlock
because that way you get 3 envenoms into shoulders
wheres with the muti+fok thing you only get 2
young briar
Cool ive been doing it right then
marble hemlock
thats my point fuu, legion assa was simple enough, and yet they decided to dumb it down even more
next expac will be mutilate+envenom, rupture removed
or something like that
with 5energy per second regen
and 70energy muti cost
so your gameplay can become even more about good decisionmaking, and less about reactiontime
whats the current downtime% on bfa assa?
mighty star
Wait how is rupture being removed?
dire spoke
safe matrix
Well rupture is removed by some effects like the dwarves racial "stone skin" ๐
viscid helm
there's a weapon enchant in BFA that gives 35% attack speed for 10s as proc
slap 2 of those
AA dmg gonna destroy everything
better not fucking miss any of those melee swings
safe matrix
I expect it to get tuned out
Cause if not
I'm just gonna right click on the boss
And leave to go make a sandwich
wraith eagle
got into BFA beta and I'm messing around with sin and seeing the new stuff going on with it. does anyone have a resource I can look over from someone more professional? not necessarily a guide, its beta afterall, but just someones overview and thoughts and how things are changing. I've always been terrible at picking out new things and connecting the dots and all that
viscid helm
no there are no guides or anything, would be waste of time/resources to write one considering that it's beta and things can change
wraith eagle
i know, i said i'm not looking for a guide. just someone/thing that breaks down how things have changed
viscid helm
I'm sure there are youtube overviews
but you never know how well these people actually know the class.
wraith eagle
i'm the kinda guy where I dont have kingsbane or mantle and i'm wondering "well...the fuck do i do now?" lol
safe matrix
I think infexious has done some bfa videos
I mean if you have that mentality, why even beta tbh
viscid helm
yeh i'm not gonna comment on that
safe matrix
Beta is for testing shit out
wraith eagle
check out new stuff, report bugs i see, etc
safe matrix
You're gonna go through the content in a couple months anyways
dapper knot
What should i be using when i vanish?
if i just garrote how is it a dps increase w/o shoulders?
spare cloud
read guide
trim dirge
like forgetting poison buffs
trim dirge
ok cool
dapper knot
subterfuge or nightstalker for no leggo shoulders?
exotic rampart
Night stalker and use vanish on rupture
dire spoke
what
dapper knot
oh shit
exotic rampart
Without shoulders
safe matrix
sim it
without shoulders you usually run subt
but NS is viable
but it depends on your set up
so simit
exotic rampart
Ayy
prime void
kind rose
boots + bracers or shoulders + bracers on agg? or it doesnt matter? sim myself?
strange python
I am really digging the 4% poison bomb
exotic glen
oh, wasnt reading properly
kind rose
bracers are op
exotic glen
shoulders i guess, i think boots would make my cds desync
smoky tulip
Any of you guys gold vanish for chains inp3 Argus?
Hold*
I understand itโs a small chance youโll get it but is being able to instantly break chains when asked worth holding vanish for then?
And my second question is, if you do hold vanish for popping chains early should I wear boots bracers instead?
dark crag
do you play with leeching?
exotic glen
when and where?
dark crag
yes
smoky tulip
I think heals are lacking and we get a lot of deaths before 2nd rez
So we lose tons of dps
So leeching might be good
exotic glen
practically no one plays leeching
smoky tulip
What are the other talents on that row?
civic palm
CD
exotic glen
cheat death is more likely to save you than leeching
smoky tulip
Oh hell no!
civic palm
Leeching is a poor amount of healing.
smoky tulip
Cheat death is life
civic palm
Literally.
exotic glen
leeching is good at WQs!
dark crag
you don't need cheat death at argus
civic palm
Leeching ROCKS at not dying in WQ, correct.
exotic glen
you need it more than leeching poison lmao
you never need cheat death if you just dont die
dark crag
when you get hit by boss cleave, cone or the orb void you deserve to die
smoky tulip
The amount of times CD has save me when I have blight and tortured rage pops is a lot (sad I know)
exotic glen
so he should just let himself die and wipe the raid because they now fail the dps check?
drifting cloud
great logic there creativ ;d
dark crag
leeching is so fucking good vs the chains and used with vial almost heals chains alone
drifting cloud
yeah chains do 400k dps clearly outheals them alone
smoky tulip
For chains? Donโt you need to be hitting something for you to leech or does it leech off poisons?
dark crag
you hit the boss
exotic glen
heals you for any dmg done
civic palm
Yeah but rup/garr ain't gonna save you.
smoky tulip
Imtold to break by running
civic palm
Not like we have 70% leech, it's 10%
dark crag
do you stop dpsing?
exotic glen
huxx, just go cheat death man
smoky tulip
Cheers boys
exotic glen
leeching wont save you, probably ever
drifting cloud
just get leech on gear problem solved
dark crag
look at methods argus kill, the rogue uses leeching
drifting cloud
are you even 11/11?
dark crag
i am 11/11 mythic
exotic glen
because the fucking healers had to dps themselves in order to make the dps check lmao
dark crag
do you spam feint?
civic palm
Especially while DPSing
drifting cloud
leeching isnt terrible but dont pretend like its the standard on the fight
even elusiveness is probably better
dark crag
ok your raid double breaks the chains, what do you do?
exotic glen
let the healers do their fucking job
drifting cloud
I pop flask and sit in link?
exotic glen
because ours dont suck ass
civic palm
Leeching Life
smoky tulip
We double break on first set then 1 by 1 the next until last we leave
exotic glen
leeching poison is bis on argus now
dark crag
people not understanding the usefullness of leeching at argus mythic progress
exotic glen
its not that we dont realise it has a usefulness, but man cheat death is leagues above it
safe matrix
guys which trinket is it that is ranged only, but does a shit ton of mastery
and procs off bleeds/DoTs
exotic glen
the one from EoA?
drifting cloud
yeah the one from eoa
safe matrix
thanks m8
dark crag
wasn't the cheat death reset nerfed when argus kills the raid?
exotic glen
havent heard about that at all, but i'd still pick cheat death
majority of dmg on argus is not after you ress in p3 (at least with our strat)
we get like 1 round of chains and 1 module
dark crag
not using cheat death only contributes to becoming a better player
exotic glen
if thats what your aim is, just dont pick a talent in that row
civic palm
Yeah but LIFE THEFT makes you an OK person?!
exotic glen
not picking leeching only contributes to becoming a better player
vapid moth
it seems im stuck
vapid moth
lmfao
safe matrix
pick leeching and not using it ๐
exotic glen
the chad way
vapid moth
its guild chat. plus party chat. and all the other chats that be running while im questing and raiding that i dont wanna see as i fight
exotic glen
what things in the chat could you possibly want to see mid-fight?
dark crag
where is the damage meter?
exotic rampart
If your healers can't out heal chains at 970 ilevel they are more responsible than leeching poison for your survival
vapid moth
just tiny screen
exotic rampart
Unless you are 3 healing or something
dark crag
i thought you 2 heal argus
vapid moth
lol people use heals on argus?
dark crag
argus spawns dead when entering the room
wise frigate
MDI strats spreading to mythic Argus I see.
dark crag
wasn't star boi 2 healed in the first kill and 1 tanked or something
exotic rampart
You just double break twice use all your cds then rezz on third chains and ignore mechanics for 30 sec
Boss dead easy game
Yea creative that that boss did no damage but had an insane hp pool
vapid moth
why are we arguing over leeching poison as if the other talents in that row are godsends themselves
dark crag
the problem was most people are color stupid, best boss mechanic beside maiden in tos
exotic rampart
Nerfed 10% hp I think but the p3 aoe damage increased by 40%
vapid moth
meh. ive never felt like that about it
exotic rampart
Only time leeching should be used in raid is on kinga if you are going to an add without a healer
If you want to self heal go play warlock
drifting cloud
just 6 heal everyfight 
dark crag
cheat death is good when you are a beginner rogue and saves you once, elusive is trading dmg vs dmg reduc and leeching lets you do dmg while gettings extra heals(only good when you know you don't fuck up)
exotic rampart
6 healers 3 blood dks
vapid moth
exactly creativ
civic palm
CD also lets you completely disregard a mechanic that might take you off the boss...
vapid moth
but we already have so many things that let us do that miz
civic palm
There are not enough.
drifting cloud
except on argus where cloak only works on like 2 abilities
dark crag
leeching safes not you but other people in the raid
civic palm
On Argus specifically there are fewer cases, but on most bosses there are only ~2 cases where CD is a DPS CD.
drifting cloud
that means 3 other people probably died
dark crag
we talk about cd, leeching at argus
vapid moth
i never said leeching would save you. im saying that it has about as much use as cheat death this late in the xpac
exotic rampart
If i were playing my hpal I would yell at rogues using leeching poison. It's my heal parse, bitch
civic palm
Not that much healing anyway > _>
dark crag
argus has no mechanic that justifies cd, how can you fuck up that you need cd?
exotic rampart
In an ideal world nobody needs cheat death on any boss
We don't live in that world
dark crag
i use cd on every other boss except argus
exotic rampart
Tanks miss orbs, healers let you dip with soulblight
civic palm
Leeching will be even better in BFA now that it's not considered Non-Lethal > _>
dark crag
how can soulblight be a danger?
drifting cloud
Creativrogue - Today at 3:48 AM
i use cd on every other boss except argus
Creativrogue - Today at 3:33 AM
not using cheat death only contributes to becoming a better player
vapid moth
whats crippling?
civic palm
He was specifically talking about Argus there.
exotic glen
listening to you, xaethron
vapid moth
huh
exotic glen
lmao gottem
exotic glen
12 with that talent
drifting cloud
whats funny is how your hp pool worked in this xpac compared to dps
exotic rampart
If you never die without cheat death you should just go play a warrior monk or enh
drifting cloud
would you use leeching in NH
civic palm
Also, not using Crippling Poison on fights where things being slowed is good is as bad as using Cheat Death on a fight where you would never die, or be able to soak a mechanic with it.
drifting cloud
where you still had like 3mil hp but did what 500k dps
civic palm
Also, using Crippling Poison in a place where adds need to not be slowed is as bad as dying as soon as you can, you useless... useless Rogue.
exotic rampart
I'm saying cheat death is unique to melee
civic palm
and Mage.
drifting cloud
doesnt enh get cheat death in bfa
exotic rampart
Only thing that comes close is cauterise
civic palm
Caut is still a bad CD, but works similarly.
CD is a weird thing for most Rogues to use because using it as a DPS CD isn't exactly obvious.
exotic glen
yeah but rogues can cheat death some ridiculous mechanics that should overkill your cheat death by using feint unlike mages
civic palm
and on top of that, the damage you can take before you actually die, isn't exactly communicated well.
dark crag
cd in itself is not bad but at argus it is a wasted talent
civic palm
on top of that some things inflict the death state, and CD would not save you anyway, but that's not communicated well either.
vapid moth
facts
exotic rampart
You can feint to soak orbs in p3 when chains are up and tortured rage is coming out as rogue, I don't think any other class can do that without a cd
Cheat death gives you 3 sec of grace
civic palm
If using CD on Argus is only covering for your bad healers and is fine.
Then using Leeching on Argus only to cover for your bad healers is fine.
But Elusiveness is and has been... hilariously broken for a long time.
dark crag
but the guy who asked needs more dps in raid or more people alive
exotic rampart
I think leeching poison was good on guldan
civic palm
Anything with DMG amp.
dark crag
take 3 assa rogues to argus and all use leeching, that are 3 dps that can survive double chains with only their selfheal and a few hots while dealing max dmg without wasting energy for feint(15 sec cd in bfa, nerf ontop of nerf for elusive)
exotic glen
i dont even feint on live for chains
drifting cloud
man youre delusional if you think leeching heals you enough in 10seconds
it heals 1 tick of chains maybe
exotic glen
and what ryler said
vapid moth
depends what 10 seconds we are talking about
civic palm
Leeching + Actual Healing :3
dark crag
you only feint with elusive because chains are no aoe
exotic rampart
Orb hoons into the group during tortured rage wyd?
vapid moth
is it hte vanish 10 seconds or 10 seconds where you refresh bleeds and use envenom
exotic glen
like, you gotta be crazy to think you can pump out enough dmg to match that
civic palm
You walk outside and yell.
exotic rampart
Elusiveness helps you vs the chains cheat gives healers a chance to pull their finger out
vapid moth
but why do rogues not have a taunt
vapid moth
yeah sounds about right
drifting cloud
yeah 80% of the healing you do with it just makes another healer overheal you
๐คฃ
dark crag
cheat death procs when entering p3, i don't know if it resets but i think it does not
drifting cloud
it does
exotic glen
the thing is, if you have bad healers, 10% leech wont save you, if you have good healers, they will just overheal you more than they already did
vapid moth
but the same case can be made for cheat death
dark crag
it is not really about saving but it works to get others the heal they need
drifting cloud
do you really think healers heal you less