assassination

[fast nacelle]

outlaw was the only outliner

but also had good times early in EN - end of NH and end of argus

[vestal wren]

outlaw was best spec while having 6 buffs and loaded dice

but ppl cba switching

and it got changed also after

[keen inlet]

it had 6 + LD for a very brief time

[spare cloud]

wasnt tos when the dfa playstyle got famous?

[fast nacelle]

it was after rework yes

[vestal wren]

they reworked sub shortly pre tos

[spare cloud]

It was smth new interresting

i assume

[vestal wren]

and dfa was not intended gameplay from the rework

[spare cloud]

so people tried it out

and then they realized its op

[fast nacelle]

it was not really intended to be DFA for ST

i guess

[spare cloud]

and stuck with it

until atbt

[fast nacelle]

but it turned out fine

[vestal wren]

the changes to the spec just worked well together

[fast nacelle]

even T21 they knew sub needs dfa

[vestal wren]

and the "insane dfa hits" made the feedback nice

[fast nacelle]

thats why T21 2p is the same like T20 4p

cause you needed this

for sub to work

without reworking some stuff

[vestal wren]

they nerfed mfd

passively with legos/trinkets/bugfixes

so even with longer symbols you might end up higher with dfa

they nerfed a lot of sub on alpha so i am not sure if dfa is even that compatitive

i kind of feel they should have switched KB with TB for sin

[fast nacelle]

yea

removing kb is a joke but understandable though

it was confusing for many

but t100 row triggers me most

when PB is your ST talent

also this 50% critbuff

for 3 seconds

[lone junco]

sub without dfa will be weird

[fast nacelle]

?!

[vestal wren]

its not so bad

[lone junco]

yeah. 3 sec is like Mut env mut.

[fast nacelle]

why not just 100%

[vestal wren]

you generate more cp with mut this way

also you have in m+ MA vs. nightstalker

[fast nacelle]

i think night stalker with the aoe 100 talent

will be gucci

[vestal wren]

so hidden blade (if used) e.g.
has 50% chance to crit or does 50% more damage

[fast nacelle]

vanish into the aoe talent

the bleeding stuff

[vestal wren]

crimson tempest

[fast nacelle]

yea

[vestal wren]

ye i dont see Hidden blade to be a good option

but we will see

[lone junco]

I carried in a few cps with NS and stealth CT open.

dunno.

outlaw is far stronger for 5man stuff imo.

will probably just play all 3 until they start to diverge.

[vestal wren]

BF change made outlaw quite potent in m+

but keep in mind number balancing is likely off

[fast nacelle]

uhm idk

outlaw was go to in legion aswell

[lone junco]

i dont mind the charges of BF. just need to get used to the GCD delay

[fast nacelle]

i went outlaw --> assa --> sub
everyone who did otherwise was dumb

[lone junco]

and AR is >>> vendetta in 5man stuff

[fast nacelle]

(from potential perspective)

[vestal wren]

pre sub rework maybe

[fast nacelle]

it ll be same
outlaw will be good for lvling and early dungeons

but assa being closer now

[lone junco]

due to shit 2ndaries. I believe that

[fast nacelle]

outlaw in legion had best baseline for mythic +0 and hc's

[lone junco]

i like the mosh sub builds with mark.

should be ok.

[fast nacelle]

only reason to not play outlaw early in legion was either going for sub legendary casino

[lone junco]

I am mark rolling Tb/2

[fast nacelle]

or being retarded (if you wanted to min max)

[lone junco]

LD is shit.

[manic vigil]

[lone junco]

Ill prob just hot swap outlaw for trash Sin for boss.

repeat

[solemn rapids]

Hi, I need help with my rotation

[lone junco]

SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE

else post a log.

[fast nacelle]

@lone junco btw what do you think about my 970 eoc on rogue

i got 970 eoc on dh and rogue now

one of my viewer traded it to me 😄

[wide badge]

@jovial kite i know understand why u play exsang bro

much more fun

😄

[echo estuary]

tom said tyra does the best deeps around here

[fast nacelle]

too bad its still worse spectre for sub cause its 955

[echo estuary]

is it why dey hatin?

[fast nacelle]

no prob cause im retarded

[dire spoke]

watch your perjoratives pls

[manic vigil]

3 times now

[jovial kite]

https://gyazo.com/1814bab388848ac10d4b3e15cd3b48f3

rank4

going better every week

still not good enough

[keen inlet]

lol I'm not going to warn or mute or w/e for calling yourself retarded, but I really wish you'd find another word

[jovial kite]

@wide badge and yeah i agree

[keen inlet]

calling other ppl/things it is the line, for me

[echo estuary]

mentally deficient?

[fast nacelle]

is there a meme about the r word?

[keen inlet]

how about dumb?

that's what you mean

[manic vigil]

You used to be cool don, what happened?

[keen inlet]

I was never cool

[high garnet]

hmm sim shows shocklight is better than shadowbind but wowhead NC list shows shadowbind is better than shocklight, which one should i trust

[keen inlet]

that was your first mistake

[manic vigil]

[fast nacelle]

@manic vigil gift me turbo

i want to meme with you

[keen inlet]

@fast nacelle It's not a meme, we just have to come down hard on "pejoratives" since becoming a discord partner

[manic vigil]

You are most likely wealthier than me

So how about no

[dire spoke]

he spelled it correctly

[fast nacelle]

ok sorry don

i didnt know this is a thing

[keen inlet]

haha it's nbd

it's bd if you call someone else it tho

[manic vigil]

For the record he did call blizzard the r word earlier

But I guess that is fine

[mossy hazel]

🚌

[manic vigil]

[keen inlet]

in general "warnings" just serve as a notation so we can remember something happened before/see behavior patterns/etc

[mossy hazel]

Right under it

[fiery nest]

Snitch

[spare cloud]

[keen inlet]

[manic vigil]

Snitch and proud

[echo estuary]

is that why Tom got purged? 😭

[lone junco]

@fast nacelle can you put your twitch in your bio for ez clicking

[spare cloud]

xaethron ban when?

[manic vigil]

Follow teh rulez

[keen inlet]

Tom had a long history of pissing everyone off

mods and users alike

[lone junco]

same

[spare cloud]

saber ban when?

[keen inlet]

lol

[fast nacelle]

@lone junco i dont know how but i can try .. its german anyways

[keen inlet]

we're watching

[echo estuary]

i thought tom was a jolly fellow

[lone junco]

I watch on mute anyway. just like trufi gcd

[jovial kite]

@lone junco https://gyazo.com/dbec2531b225370e4a74cfb208ea2b27

[lone junco]

326 is big

[fast nacelle]

ah nvm i added it

[manic vigil]

Tyra stream

[spare cloud]

Instagram also linked

[keen inlet]

self-dox

be careful with "doxxing" though

[lone junco]

I read a little german. nbd

[keen inlet]

Discord takes that shit omega-ultra-seriously

[fast nacelle]

if someone chats in english i reply in english aswell though

[lone junco]

Instagram is his dh name

[keen inlet]

ppl been banned for "doxxing" completely public info/accounts/etc

[lone junco]

quite the trolly

[keen inlet]

not just here, other discords too

[fast nacelle]

i cant reveal myself

only @gaunt moat knows how i look

cause we shared some personal and sexy moments in the past

[keen inlet]

me irl

but everybody here knows

[solemn rapids]

how do I log myself?

[lone junco]

🍆 👌

@solemn rapids tbh, warcraftlogs has an uploader. You can /combatlog and upload it, or I do live logging.

[echo estuary]

is this man on vicodine @keen inlet

[lone junco]

either way there is an advanced log setting you want to turn on.

[keen inlet]

@solemn rapids http://bfy.tw/HwQ3

[solemn rapids]

my sim says i should be doing 1.84 but everytime I try my rotation im consistently staying at 1.73 and i dont know why :/

[keen inlet]

first two hits btw

[mossy hazel]

I don't think that's not too bad a variance. Probably just human error at that point, fight mechanics interrupting, etc

[solemn rapids]

this is on a target dummy though...

So im clearly missing something

either im not pressing something or im timing something wrong idk

[spare cloud]

You can look what sim does

and what you do

and compare

also dummy doesn't have ht

[mossy hazel]

Well you're not oging to be logging on a dummy either so I'd go through the ravenholdt guide they posted and read through the rotation section

[spare cloud]

• you cant vanish on dummy

So you would lose out on 2 vanishes in the 5 minute window

[echo estuary]

if one does what sim does enough times, one shall become what sim is

[spare cloud]

also if you use bracers for example

[mossy hazel]

That's deep

[spare cloud]

the results on the dummy are rigged

[solemn rapids]

im using shoulders + boots

[spare cloud]

doesnt change what I said before

[mossy hazel]

Could also be shitty PB luck?

[solemn rapids]

for a 4in try, pb did 4.4% damage

4min*

[mossy hazel]

I FEEL like that's low, but I'm not positive

[spare cloud]

You can't just set everything on one try

You need to get a bigger sample size for you to get closer to the average

[mossy hazel]

That's true, sim is typically average over 1000 simulations

[cursive hatch]

100,000*

[mossy hazel]

Oh damn, is it that many?

[solemn rapids]

I set mine to 20,000

[spare cloud]

thats what iterations are

You should set it to 100.000

on raidbots

[solemn rapids]

Don't I have to pay for that?

[mossy hazel]

I know WHAT iterations are, I just didn't know exact number

[spare cloud]

No?

[echo estuary]

set it to ∞ -1

[manic vigil]

Try top gear with 100k

[solemn rapids]

my bracers over my boots is only a 20k dps increase :/

I thought the bracers were a lot better than the boots

[mossy hazel]

Depends on the fight

Typically Shorter fights: Bracers, longer: Boots

[hoary copper]

Also depends on off pieces

[mossy hazel]

Wait, I think I got that backwards..

No, that's right, nevermind

[hoary copper]

you got it

[cursive hatch]

I have 980 boots. Rip getting to use boots until I get okay shoulders.

[mossy hazel]

The only loot I ever get these days is shoulders...

Or, up until this past monday, something that would break my 4p..

Thankfully I finally got a 5th tier piece to play with

Wish I knew

[solemn rapids]

what classifies as I short/long fight?

[spare cloud]

it's very specific durations

In a fight where you wont get an extra vendetta due to boots you'll still use bracers

[mossy hazel]

Was half expecting sarcasm, Toph.

[spare cloud]

?????

I'm not the one giving only partially correct information

[mossy hazel]

It wasn't partially correct, it just wasn't as specific.

It was generally correct

[spare cloud]

How come top argus logs are still shoulders bracers then if boots are better on very long fights

followed by boots/bracers

shouldersbracers have the highest high

which is why they are used for parsing

[mossy hazel]

I gave what I knew because no one offered something better at the time of the question

I had read that should/boots was typical for argus, so that's interesting to hear actually

[warm parcel]

can we dispell this random boots are only good in x

be it fight lenght or "one extra ven"

both are just untrue

[spare cloud]

For parsing you generally go shoulders bracers

[warm parcel]

hows that relevant to the myth that boots are good with "x"

[echo estuary]

Tom had the best feelycraft

[spare cloud]

I mean you can't really be 100% certain all the time

[warm parcel]

ven isnt an instant spell that only affects the very instant you press it

it has 20s duration

[crystal mortar]

guys whats the best race to start playing rouge ?

[glass compass]

Human, blood elf

Dwarf

[mossy hazel]

Dwarf rogue best rogue

But I'm a goblin

[crystal mortar]

awesome thx

[crystal mortar]

my bad spelling is terrible

[mossy hazel]

My rogue is named rouge

[crystal mortar]

but thanks for pointing that out 😃

[glass compass]

Ohh if you want the best rouge hit up your nearest Sephora or other make up store

[crystal mortar]

wow what a helpfull comment

[glass compass]

I mean if u wanna look fabulous thatd be a better place to ask then this den of weebs

[manic vigil]

You are my hero of the day, good sir! @glass compass

[glass compass]

I just do what I can fellow good sir

[vapid moth]

Yaaawwwwn

[exotic glen]

what the fuck, cache pls

why not eye of command reeee

[vapid moth]

We all ask the same question

[hoary copper]

still expecting good cache in 2k18 🤔

[drifting cloud]

complaining about 980 hunger of the pack

which is basically like 970 eoc thats not trash on aoe 🤔

[lean hill]

They would obviously rather have my 975 dodge relic

[exotic glen]

i mean, still a 10k dps upgrade

BUT IS NOT 985 WITH SOCKET, GIVE NEW ONE PLS

[marble hemlock]

i want 980 nightbane urn 😦

[drifting cloud]

lol 10k your previous trinket must have already been pretty sick then

[exotic glen]

"sick" lmao

was a 965 shadowsinged fang

[drifting cloud]

socket?

[exotic glen]

no

[drifting cloud]

because I have 970 hunger and it outsims a 960 fang im pretty sure

[exotic glen]

your trinkets are almost the same as mine, and both sim higher with hunger

idk where your confusion comes from

[drifting cloud]

970 hunger to 980 is more than 10k dps

[exotic glen]

ye but my fang still has 5 ilvls on yours

[lone junco]

980 hunger will be good for lvling 😃

[spare cloud]

check the right tab

[lucid latch]

@gaunt moat

someone wants u!

[trail heron]

eating dong? how lewd~

[gaunt moat]

!mute @strange python toxic

hmm bot dead

let's just ban instead

[fiery nest]

[hoary copper]

dang missed something

[gaunt moat]

someone that i don't know and never spoke to started cursing me for a reason i don't know.
didn't miss a lot.

[exotic glen]

tfw words are banned

[gaunt moat]

@exotic glen you know the server rules.

[exotic glen]

am sorry bunnyman

[strange python]

dont mess with notter, he one mean piggy

[hoary copper]

Notter is a piggy now?

pig bunny?

[strange python]

his pic is blatantly a piggy

i have perfect eyesight, im 100% sure of this

[hoary copper]

Apparently its a thing with plushes

[strange python]

notter made it popular, before him there were no plushes

did you know notter starred in that film with the sheep dog/pig?

#notter-facts

[sinful jewel]

guys any guide for beta bfa rogue talents?

[strange python]

probably wont be a bfa guide until bfa is out

cause its gonna be changing all the time

[hoary copper]

There wont be guides till end of beta at best

[strong jacinth]

970 Strangler Iron Relic with Chaotic Darkness + balanced blades - OR - 940 M.Alchemist + Mastery + Vendetta

Anyone?

[cursive hatch]

[strange python]

vendor both , imo

[strange python]

(my opinion is my own and not representative of your best gearing strategy just fyi)

actually, vendor them both and give the gold away to show the world that youre a nice guy

[exotic glen]

give the gold to goldbeggars in whatever main city you prefer

[night prawn]

hi there Just one question i'm testing outlaw on mythic dungeon in BFA and i would like to know if someone have test sin and sub to compare cuz i didnt loot dagger yet to test.

[strange python]

will it be like this till beta closes?

@night prawn infexsion gaming has a ton of BFa rogue content

On his channel

Highly recommend

[night prawn]

on his youtube ?

[strange python]

Yup

So far assassin is really solid

[night prawn]

hmm i wil check this 😃

[strange python]

In BFA

Sub is kinda meh atm

[slim estuary]

I think sin will be choice on release cause of the haste and mastery scaling

[drifting cloud]

I think potato

[wind gull]

I like fried potatoes

[exotic glen]

why even live when you get rank 2

[lavish frost]

i heard that crit is valued wrong in sims is that right or bullshit ?

[exotic glen]

havent heard anything like that

[lavish frost]

a guildmate

[exotic glen]

do you have any context other than its valued wrong

did he say how or why

[lavish frost]

since 2-3 weeks everytime we talk about gear he says crit is valued to weak in sims, but i dont realy believed that i just wanted to get the : NO man that guys talking nonsense from you 😛

[exotic glen]

well stuff like lego shoulders devalues crit in sims, because that is accurate

other than that i cant really think of anything

[solid nova]

The other reason being your guild mate is talking out his ass.

[exotic glen]

i like to give benefit of the doubt, maybe he got some wrong data somewhere

[random furnace]

Has anyone noticed that a 945 ilvll, higher simmed Shadow-Singed Fang does not increase your DPS more than a 910 Eye of Command?

[drifting cloud]

lol.

[random furnace]

Like I see my dps go down when I use the fang although it simms higher.

[exotic glen]

have you tested it about 10000 times like the sims have?

[random furnace]

No, just tested on different weeks against the same boss.

[cursive hatch]

small data size means anything you are seeing yourself is irrelevant.

[echo estuary]

so much for size doesn't matter

[fiery nest]

which is the reason it's recommended to run simes 100k iterations

[manic blaze]

Hi all I have a question About the Assa-Rota : First Vanish -> Envenom , Second Third wtc - Rupture?

[random furnace]

So, if the sim says its more DPS use it even though I notice my dps go down on fights?

[fiery nest]

depends on the fight and how much more it sims for

and what the item is

[lean hill]

The sim knows better than your feelycraft

[fiery nest]

if its EoC and you're on a fight where you're switching targets it's not worth for example

or if its like a 5k increase that's within the margain of error

[random furnace]

I've noticed on the dogs in Antorus

single target- very low downtime.

Anyone know the proc rate of EoC vs Fang?

[cursive hatch]

Probably PB rng and just general play mistakes

[random furnace]

I did think about PB rng

[hoary copper]

@manic blaze with shoulders you vanish -> envenom, without vanish -> rupture

[exotic glen]

lmao EoC is 100% uptime dawg if you play right

no wonder your dps is dropping like mad if you keep removing your stacks

[hoary copper]

Are we talking huge differences Lex or small like possibly pb procs?

[manic blaze]

@hoary copper THX!

[hoary copper]

!singuide has good info on rotations

!singuide

effing bot

[random furnace]

Havent paid attention to the PB procs on one vs the other.

[hoary copper]

SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE

[random furnace]

hehe, I saw the guide, and have used it. 😃

[hoary copper]

That was for krooks, but I mean sure 😛

[random furnace]

Oh

[lean hill]

PB average is 7% or so, use that as a rough idea how lucky or not you were

[manic blaze]

😃 thx again

[random furnace]

😃

[hoary copper]

how much is the sim difference too, if its small it might be margin of error

[random furnace]

Got ya, let me run it again since I got different gear yesterday.

[drifting cloud]

35 ilvl lower eoc doesnt sim anywhere near fang

[hoary copper]

Was just thinking of differences 🤷

[drifting cloud]

yeah just saying it wont be small

[random furnace]

Aye @drifting cloud

Alright, well, the census is, no, it should not be doing less DPS. PB procs are bad, or I am missing something in my rotation.

[exotic glen]

just gonna ask

is your eoc uptime low

[random furnace]

let me check

Dunno @exotic glen

Dont see it listed in the log.

I would think its not low, as I dont switch targets during dogs fight, and my uptime on Rupture and Garrote were 97% and 98% respectively.

I will give it another try and make sure that the rotation is as it should and look at the PB procs

and the sim difference is 20K dps between 910 EoC and 945 Fang

[hoary copper]

Thats like witin the % of error or pretty close (if its .5% or less I think it is)

[random furnace]

Got ya

[hoary copper]

depending how high of a dps we are talking

[random furnace]

1957919 with Eoc , 1977962 with Fang

so 1% would be around 19,700 dps

.5% would be around 9,900 ish dps

[hoary copper]

A bit over then

Use EoC when you can have high uptime and fang when you cant then I spose 🤷

[random furnace]

Yep

Thanks all!

[exotic glen]

fuck me, is anyone testing the current boss

it is absolute aids

[cursive hatch]

just pull it out of the room and kill it with no mechanics 😄

I'm watching but at work so can't test

[exotic glen]

we dont want to kill it lol

we want to test it

but fuck my ass, it sucks

so. much.

[civic palm]

hahaha

[torn coyote]

my rogue sims for 3.316m

anyone here sims for 3.4m?

[civic palm]

No, and neither do you under normal conditions.

[torn coyote]

what you mean

[civic palm]

and that you have a setting or four set incorrectly.

[torn coyote]

my setting are correct

[viscid helm]

https://puu.sh/AePjo/a9c2c97740.png

last phase ST

seems balanced

[torn coyote]

5 mins nightly 0 trinkets

[civic palm]

uhhuh

Cuz those are the only settings.

[fiery nest]

Lol post the repory

Report

[viscid helm]

P R I V A T E

[civic palm]

Not you.

The liar.

[viscid helm]

ohh

lmao

my bad

[exotic glen]

the guy claiming to sim 3.3 mil

[viscid helm]

[civic palm]

Flowi you might say some dumb shit from time to time but you're not a liar.

[viscid helm]

https://puu.sh/AePoO/5bc1632aa5.jpg

[civic palm]

Unless you want me to call you a liar?

[final star]

Flowi not a liar?

He's a stinky boi

[civic palm]

AFAIK.

_>

[exotic glen]

what the fuck lmao

hidden blades on st?

[viscid helm]

yes

PB is horrible

absolute trash

[civic palm]

and for spastic cleave I assume.

Low HP, High Count, explosions.

[cursive hatch]

alright people, start wearing cloak for ST. Get that muscle memory 😉

[civic palm]

ha noty

DMG reference ...

Though I do not know how long Flowi got into the fight.

etc.

[lean hill]

That stat squish is not fucking around is it

[civic palm]

-80% or so.

Crunch.

[cursive hatch]

its like start of wotlk numbers

hp is a bit higher though, like end of wotlk

[civic palm]

Much easier to explain to people how gaining 20k+ DPS isn't worth it due to variance when you already should be doing 2M > _>

[lean hill]

80%? Am I looking at it wrong?

2mil+ down to 7k?

[cursive hatch]

not to mention that people don't realize that fucking up a gcd is going to be a bigger difference than most variance in sims they are seeing

[civic palm]

DPS numbers are bunk ATM due to stats being awful, characters not optimized, things like that.

Yeah, better play == better numbers. Getting a 985 trinket ain't gonna magically make you better.

[lean hill]

Oh by the time you are at max and raid geared

I get it

[civic palm]

Also not everything got crunched by that much, some things more, some things less.

[heavy plover]

Top 50 World on Felhounds FeelsGoodMan

[exotic glen]

for rogues or overall?

[civic palm]

👌

[heavy plover]

rogues, no way overall lul

aint getting near a 5mil shadowpriest on doggos

[exotic glen]

what exact rank did you get

just wanna know if i beat you

[heavy plover]

no idea someone just told me, but still got the details open

3.10mil

[exotic glen]

that number exactly doesnt exist

name of your char?

also i didnt beat you, rip

[heavy plover]

Zedlol

[safe matrix]

mythic or heroic?

[heavy plover]

hc

[safe matrix]

heroic is 170 ish

[heavy plover]

inb4 he lied to me

[exotic glen]

oh lmao i looked at mythic

yeah you are rank 172

4head

[heavy plover]

EU or overall?

[safe matrix]

overall

[exotic glen]

overall

[safe matrix]

82nd in europe

also jfc

nice poison bomb

[heavy plover]

well i don't even know how to play rogue so SeemsGood

[civic palm]

inb4 25%

[safe matrix]

20%

[civic palm]

Damn, close.

[viscid helm]

then when u include private logs

[exotic glen]

lmfao

[viscid helm]

thats closer to 500

[safe matrix]

do people even private log heroic?

[civic palm]

I am sure that someone does.

[viscid helm]

i doubt people bother switching from priv to live if they go run hc

🤷

[heavy plover]

is 20% bad or something i don't usually play assas

[civic palm]

20% is 13% over average for ST

[heavy plover]

except for guild

they were stacked, does that change anything

[civic palm]

The entire fight?

[heavy plover]

yes

[viscid helm]

well its hc

they are always stacked

[civic palm]

So like, 6% over then, or some.

Very lucky. 👌

[heavy plover]

damn, praise RNGesus

[exotic glen]

tfw r1 is like 27%

[heavy plover]

lul

[civic palm]

👏

[exotic glen]

sweet jesus

[heavy plover]

gunna check my mates command log

he got 3.6mil

as assas

[safe matrix]

I think top logs are like 4m on heroic

or something

[heavy plover]

yeah he got 20% on PB too

[exotic glen]

high command is higher pb% dmg tho

too many adds

[heavy plover]

lul he got 12th world on command

not even top 10

what a noob am i right

[safe matrix]

I mean two of the top 10 I think used the PK glitch

[exotic glen]

still? lmao

[heavy plover]

PK glitch?

[exotic glen]

though wcl would have banned those logs

poison knives

[heavy plover]

oh

[civic palm]

Nah there are some still around.

Though like 98% are removed.

and all of the really bad logs are gone.

[devout temple]

i finally got in beta, ww still destroying us in aoe but same st =\

nerf that shit

[viscid helm]

not sure if serious

[devout temple]

so u promise it wont be like that on live?

[viscid helm]

balance tuning is good 4 months away

not sure why u are crying

[devout temple]

i been hearing that since legion alpha -_-

we'll see

[cursive hatch]

numbers also havent been tuned in alpha or beta

thats one of the last things they do

[devout temple]

they weren't tuned for the last year on live either

[cursive hatch]

make sure shit works, then you can dial in numbers

[devout temple]

;\

[keen inlet]

asking a non blizzard employee to promise something about the game 4 months in advance

[safe matrix]

asking a blizzard employee to promise something about the game 4 months in advance

[strange python]

"we appreciate your feedback"

[cursive hatch]

Soon™

[fiery nest]

asking a blizzard employee to promise anything at any time

[civic palm]

_>"

Blizzard was waiting for our RL to quit.

[supple hearth]

TFW ur the only one in the world without beta

[vagrant marlin]

dont feel alone

me neither

[civic palm]

Just gotta get your guild to quit.

From being pure, utter, garbage.

[strange python]

how should i open in a ST boss or AOE pack on beta if I get MA with only 3 secs with 50% crit :S

[lone junco]

Carry in cps. Then env mut env.

Or CT mut Env.

Or don't use that talent.

[strange python]

is a very short window really, cloak was by far stronger

and 100

I would pick MfD > envenom > muti > envenom

but vigor is better atm i think

[lone junco]

What's on that row.

[strange python]

NS - Subt - Master assa

[lone junco]

For now I've been ep. Subt. Vig. Vr. Ct.

But TB hits for like 4m

Ep tb could be a thing.

[strange python]

VR is actually good? i mean is only 5 energy refund, and maybe TB > Vr no?

[lone junco]

dunno yet. Tisumi has done a lot more testing.

I play all 3specs tho.

[strange python]

i play 3 too, but know i took a break with sub, is just damn bad

[peak crater]

I just checked my bnet, and I have beta access now too. My guild went on break yesterday. No email from blizz though

[civic palm]

_>"

[peak crater]

That's really weird

[primal tangle]

What do i do if i dont want to raid

Tell my rl im sick

[civic palm]

Don't sign up for raids.

[primal tangle]

i really want out

[peak crater]

You want out for like one night, or do you want to break?

[primal tangle]

im just done for the expansion

[peak crater]

Just be honest with your raid, and definitely don't leave them hanging

[civic palm]

Then fuck off. If there is a line of communication tell them you need a break, and go away.

[peak crater]

Yeah

Any reasonable guild is going to understand

[vapid moth]

Yawn

[primal tangle]

I know them personally ah well I guess im stuck in it

[civic palm]

Excellent.

Then they know that you will be telling the truth.

People - I general - do not like to be roped along.

If anything, considering you know them personally, they won't want to feel like they are forcing you into a situation that you do not want to be in.

If they are reasonable people anyway.

[vapid moth]

It's a normal thing. Lots of people dropping off

[civic palm]

Yep. Around this time people are taking breaks, period.

[primal tangle]

Are you 11/11? And you are enjoying raiding?

[vapid moth]

I'm sure they'd rather have a player who's into the game at the start of the xpac than one who's burnt out

I'm not 11/11

[primal tangle]

Ik I'm asking Miz

Not trying to offend or anything

[civic palm]

What does completion have to do with this? I do enjoy raiding. I chose not to push this expansion.

[primal tangle]

But you are one of the best rogues i know

[civic palm]

Alright.

[primal tangle]

My guild is trash

[vapid moth]

Oh OK

[civic palm]

Welcome to the club.

[vapid moth]

Population me

[primal tangle]

120 wipes on varimathras and im 🤢

[civic palm]

So.

We're 3.5/11 and lost ~6 very good raiders to a couple of bad apples.

[vapid moth]

At least you're on vari. Farther than me

[civic palm]

We could probably be 6-9/11

Poor management has ruined this guild.

[vapid moth]

What you mean

[civic palm]

The leadership did not take action to correct the sinking ship.

[vapid moth]

Ah

[primal tangle]

Arent you offered a top 100

[civic palm]

I've had plenty of offers.

I more-than-likely will not be with this guild for BFA.

Will probably take a Top 100 server.

pr

or

sorry

Top20

[primal tangle]

With your skill you could play any game professionally

[civic palm]

Dunno about that.

[vapid moth]

What makes you think of miz so highly

[civic palm]

Someone is trying to butter me up.

[primal tangle]

I know his/her logs

[civic palm]

I was sponsored by SteelSeries at one point > _>

[vapid moth]

Oh welp

[civic palm]

During TBC > _>

[primal tangle]

TBC was fun I was like 13

[civic palm]

Sure was.

[safe matrix]

also in game result =/= game knowledge/skill all of the time

its usually a pretty good indicator

[primal tangle]

Im gonna be brutally honest. I tried assassin and read the guides but I get like 1.8m dps

[vapid moth]

Well what's your ilvl

[primal tangle]

973

[vapid moth]

O. You play sub though right

[primal tangle]

Yes and I find sub rewarding

[civic palm]

A little low but improveable.

[vapid moth]

Yeah. Then it's the little stuff that's probably holding you back

[civic palm]

mmm, more WA testing > _>

Mine are rather wide and I wondered what they would look like smaller.

Dunno if I like it.

OOC -

Combat -

Though... the scale is whack since it's a smaller shot.

BTW there are like... 20 other Rogues here that parse better than me > _>

That are active ^

[vapid moth]

I am not one of them though I know you may think I am

[civic palm]

Well that's one off the list.

[supple hearth]

Mizerok plotting asassinations to become #1

[civic palm]

_>

<_<

_> 💦

[vapid moth]

Well then I'm safe. Can't kill what isn't a threat

[civic palm]

A lot.

Alacrity bois

[vapid moth]

For something that's supposed to be hella easy to Sim well with I did terribly when I tried alac

Sim well and reach optimal Sim damage

[lone junco]

@primal tangle what is your st sim target at 973? 2.2m?

[primal tangle]

Around that

Im raiding

I cant check yet

[lone junco]

1.8 is pretty low. you are probably mut at 4 still, or burning your vanish outside vendetta.

without a log, either you forgot to apply poisons, bad vanish windows, or wrong spec.

even hemo alacrity would hit 1.8m tho

[primal tangle]

Im sure its something with vanish

[lone junco]

shoulder open

[primal tangle]

Either that or bad habits

[lone junco]

too low for bad habits

its prob something simple tho

just @ me when you get a log.

[dire spoke]

vanish at 5.5s

fucking slow

feelsbadman

my T2 traits could be 20k higher

https://snag.gy/SmPQsk.jpg

but they are shite

[vapid moth]

you are an MoS fanatic i see

[dire spoke]

It's the best T2 trait mantle-bracer can get

and I don't have one of it

[strange python]

😦

hunger pack ilvl ?

[dire spoke]

960

same ilvl fang sims same for me

shtupid

[strange python]

qol feelcraft items :p

i hit 40%crit on boots / bracer setup yesterday 😄

[orchid swallow]

FeelsGoodMan troll berserking gonna be good for mut next xpac

[strange python]

zempai lets do avatar on hc 😄 i know u would get an shoulder uprolll

[dire spoke]

I'm heroic locked for sell :p

oh avatar

[strange python]

i cant believe it

u locked on tos hc

😦

[dire spoke]

no

lmao

I thought aggr

but I'm doing ToS on tuesdays

sorries

[strange python]

we did avatar on mythic again .. no spoulders and that good ap coin .. that are the reasons why ive 82 traits on sin

[dire spoke]

nice :p

I got them 930 but T20 will never happen to be better with my gear

[strange python]

giefff .. 12k upgrade

[dire spoke]

nice transmog

[strange python]

thx

t3 becomes boring for some times ..

[vapid moth]

ew subterfuge

[strange python]

need it man

[vapid moth]

throw the whole sim out

[strange python]

1k higher :p

let me the dream

;p

[vapid moth]

1k dps vs 20% stealth movement speed

[strange python]

😄

[vapid moth]

i think we know who the real winner is

[dire spoke]

why would you want stealth movement in raids

[vapid moth]

why would you wanna change your talents everytime you left and entered the raid instance

[uneven loom]

vanish is now a mobility cooldown

[strange python]

thats why i am playing mostly ns

[dire spoke]

welcome to BfA, talent swapping inc

have fun with it

[strange python]

in simc changing numbers dont cost cash 😛

[vapid moth]

hehehe

in all seriousness though subterfuge could sim for 4k more dps and i wouldnt give a shit. i like ns convenience

[dire spoke]

that works in guilds who don't care

mostly the bad ones

[vapid moth]

then i guess i will only always be in bad guilds

[strange python]

spam ?

[dire spoke]

that's one detail I left my old guild - players who aren't willing to be flexible and play a class for one particular build or spec

[strange python]

i know such an beast :p

[vapid moth]

theres a difference between 4k dps and a whole build :/

[strange python]

that combat rogue in wod .. blackhand .. she did well to get everymine

[dire spoke]

subt is an other build

[strange python]

its another talent :p

whats wrong with subt. ? ns rupture suxx without bota

:p

[vapid moth]

for me? its just boring. i like seeing 7mill envenom.

[strange python]

i like big numbers too

[dire spoke]

if 4k == 1% I would pick subt

[strange python]

go for eoa caster trinket and snipe on peak

[dire spoke]

nobody calcs in decimal

[strange python]

12m envenom

can be yours

xD

[trail heron]

outlulz: make sure everything dies slowly, in a flashy way. sub: make things die ASAP. ass: make everyone die slow and in agony :p

[strange python]

and if u play without mantle .. there are reasons u wont see 7m env

[vapid moth]

outlaw is more like tease the fuck out of everything as you kill it

[strange python]

cause it didnt crit

[dire spoke]

yeah it's almost like it's a new build

[vapid moth]

lol no its not.

[dire spoke]

what is a build then?

[vapid moth]

you just garrote instead of envenom/rupture

one talent change does not make a new build

requires a playstyle change

[sour rune]

Whats the ideal crit rating for assassination

[vapid moth]

100%

lol no response. he must think im joking

[hazy iron]

Guilds would kick / bench of a 4k sim? Lol

[vapid moth]

^^^^

"oh hey. i simmed your character for you. even swapped out a few talents to see what works best. why dont you use subterfuge if it sims 4k higher?"

[hazy iron]

Yeah anyone with a brain wouldn't do that lol

For assassination anyways

[vapid moth]

id much sooner be asked why i pulled low dps in one fight over another

[chrome karma]

is mastry food better then the flat 1% vers?

[vapid moth]

depends on your vers?

[hazy iron]

[chrome karma]

simming this is kinda weird i do i sim a food buff

[vapid moth]

oh wait

[trail heron]

would be even funnier when the 'i simmed your character for you' also included a different gear loadout. even funnier with a 'trial'

[vapid moth]

flat 1%. 1% vers is about 300

[chrome karma]

1% is i belive 425

[vapid moth]

or 425

[chrome karma]

for vers at least

[vapid moth]

fuck it im calculating this bs

brb

[hazy iron]

You can change fiid buff in extra settings on raidbots

[trail heron]

because that would mean you'd tell someone to basically scrap his character, and then gear up with stuff they aren't getting in the first plöace, for reasons. and Master Loot

[hazy iron]

Click sim options then tick show all options

[dire spoke]

I wasn't argueing against a minimal dps increase, it was the fact on disliking a playstyle in general. Also I repeat myself on nobody calculates with decimals - if 4k mean a 1% increase you can start thinking about it

[vapid moth]

473 if the wowlogs values arent skewed

[dire spoke]

also it's an example

[chrome karma]

ty errrorsol

[trail heron]

4k being 1%....so, before you pass an ilevel that barely qualifies you for heroic?

[vapid moth]

sadly zempai 4k is not currently 1%

[dire spoke]

why did I even mention it being an example

[trail heron]

because 400k (ie, 100%, if 4k was 1%) is what i had in short of ilevel 800

[dire spoke]

nice commenting btw

[vapid moth]

and whats wrong with disliking a playstyle?

[dire spoke]

it can hinder progressing

that's wrong with it

[vapid moth]

uh huh

thatd be a valid argument if we were talking about classes

but we arent even talking about specs. we are talking about a talent swap that does 4k more dps. one that isnt even a different playstyle

[trail heron]

if someone wants to be a judge about what 'hinders' progressing, they better be a flawless 110% on the scale they put others against.

if they don't perform above what they insist of others, they should shut their faces.

[dire spoke]

how delusional must one be not to pick a better talent if it's output is higher which helps the raid most of the time

and no I'm still not on the 4k

that is straight limiting yourself

[trail heron]

4k at this point, with the catch up mechanics, isn't a big difference. and if the performance of ONE person makes or breaks an attempt, the issue might not just be with that single person.

[vapid moth]

if we were talking anything over than 4k i would agree.

[dire spoke]

it's still about percentage

can we stop the decimals at this point

[vapid moth]

what? would you like me to say a 4k change would be important in some instances?

cause in that case sure it is

[dire spoke]

forget the 4k man

did you even sim your subt build

because disliking a talent mostly means ppl don't even try

also my 1% upgrade on swapping talents can be smaller than your 1%

so it doesn't matter if it's 4k or 40k

[lone junco]

That 4 k is less than sim #

Nvm. Zzz

He's probably using 10k iterations.

Or just. Doofus.

[vapid moth]

it was a made up number

so i dunno what youre getting at

[dire spoke]

so your argument doesn't have a value

well it kinda does

but I don't care about common sense at this point, because nobody knows what 4k means

maybe it's 0.2%

maybe it's 1%

[vapid moth]

we all pull over 2mill. dunno why you have to act like you dont know what 4k is

[dire spoke]

I would be happy if you knew the difference on your toon

that would be a plus on giving a fuck

[vapid moth]

.2%

[dire spoke]

nice

I can't make anything happen than default build

[strange python]

anticipation

*hust

[vapid moth]

anticipation best talent

think ill make that my new thing

[dire spoke]

you prob missing some crit maybe

it's pretty heavy

but your subt seems to pull ahead

[strange python]

for me ?

[dire spoke]

no xaeth

maybe another crit/mast item

or a relic

and it could be 1%

:p

[strange python]

2.356.181 DPS boots bracer 😄

[hazy iron]

The point i was personally making was that poison bomb rng skews fine differences like 4k at our current range of numbers

Who ever thought of pb must have been javing a bad day at work

[supple hearth]

The same guy who came up with rtb probably

[civic palm]

PB is cool

[dire spoke]

I said from beginning that I don't care about the decimal, argueing without a real number is useless in the first place

[civic palm]

RTB was neat when it relied on dice being rolled, it's stupid now.

[hazy iron]

Yeah i know, but the point was raised with that number, and my point is due to that RnG, the difference between talents would have to be substantial to sit someone for not changing talents, due ti how the class works

4k in that case isnt substantial. Everyone unserstands that it would be dense to handycap your raid by playing a sub optimal build

I dont actually think anyone said otherwise

[dire spoke]

no perjoratives pls

[raw rune]

@light jacinth what do u sim at?

[dire spoke]

well Xaeth sounds like he wouldn't even play subt even if it would be 2% better

that's what I jumped on 😄

[hazy iron]

Anything feels normal after 10 - 20 minutes at a target dummy lol

[vapid moth]

what dummy are you able to spend 10 mintues on

[dire spoke]

XæTHRON
2.039.731 DPS

subt 1.989.523 with made up garothi hc shoulders

[vapid moth]

whyd you use made up shoulders

[dire spoke]

because I don't have insight in your bag or bank

[vapid moth]

i have a ton of builds i could use. all within 20k dps of each other

[rocky atlas]

i honestly admire rogues cuz i have a lvl 40 and its hard to play GJ ROGUES

[dire spoke]

cool I don't

[civic palm]

_>"

[vapid moth]

lv40 rogues just have no energy return

[rocky atlas]

im scared theres gonna be 57 buttons to push

when i get to 110

haha

[civic palm]

Nah there's a few buttons

[vapid moth]

theres literally only 5 you frequently push

[rocky atlas]

i have a monk and it has alot so i imagine i could rogue

i really really want to

[civic palm]

like that many :3

[vapid moth]

frequently as in more than once per minute

[rocky atlas]

lvl a rogue

*Faint

[dire spoke]

keybinds

[civic palm]

I click...

Bloodlust :3

[dire spoke]

[rocky atlas]

im playing outlaw but started sub cuz i really wanted to sub was just no dmg 😐

sub =hardest spec?

[little hinge]

If I have Shadowblade for Vigor, should I run Deeper Stratagem for the tower?

[dire spoke]

mate you're leveling

there are no hard specs before raid content

[rocky atlas]

ya and leveling sucks now

true

[kind forge]

There See no hard specs in general lol

*are

[rocky atlas]

ill keep giving it a go

that is why i joined this discord because i really wanna play one

[light jacinth]

@raw rune idk man i dont sim myself lol

[dire spoke]

@little hinge I guess? it's faceroll since you pick leeching poison anyway

just don't die

[little hinge]

Words to live by 😄

I've yet to do this particular challenge on any char, so it'll be new for me.

[dire spoke]

sin is literally one of the easiest ones

[little hinge]

Is it as easy as the Feltotem challenge?

[dire spoke]

I main rogue idk

meaning I don't really play other classes

[supple hearth]

the easiest mage tower is the ww/disc one. the sin one is the 2nd easiest

[little hinge]

I used to be like that. Then Legion came out >.>

[civic palm]

Feral is a HyperJoke.

[little hinge]

Yeah, I one-shot the WW Feltotem.

[dire spoke]

just keep poisons and bleeds up on the sin targets

and you don't die if you kick and dodge

oh wait forget the poisons I've done it back in AP times

ppl were like 900ilvl

and it was easy

[mild obsidian]

Most unlucky character is this god damn rogue. Legendaries so far: Will of Vallera, Insignia, Prydaz, Grand Army and Outlaw boots when I was on the wrong loot spec. Do I just nuke this character from orbit or what

[dire spoke]

if this would be 2016 it would matter

[mild obsidian]

True

[strange python]

for m+ i switched to alacrity

ap was worse

[dire spoke]

for m+ I switched to sub

[strange python]

the thing is u needed the right legs + sub atleast all traits

in that early peace of garbage

no mantle/cloak no sub ^^

outlaw felt funnier for me before they changed some things at tos

bis legs req.

[dire spoke]

oh right

in 2016 I actually switched to outlaw I guess, since mantle didn't exist

[strange python]

played outlaw at the start from legion like 95% of the rogues ^^ with the first sin buffs i swapped instantly ..

[dire spoke]

well yeah, after the outlaw nerfs sin was the safe pick because sub was only playable with the boots

[strange python]

boots become a bit useless after ss changes

the cof bracer era on sub was nice too :p

[dire spoke]

yeah

nice 100% SB uptimes

(mostly 75+)

[strange python]

it was a bit spammy

dfa in tos was sometimes slooooow as fuck but ap was the highlight in this xpac that pooling bitch ;p

[dire spoke]

everybody swap targets!

sin rogue nope

• frost dk

but my breath gonna drop

[civic palm]

TunnelTunnelTunnel

[strange python]

was fine ^^

dos mantle too

[dire spoke]

https://snag.gy/Hd6snN.jpg

wtf

RH stole my emote

[smoky tulip]

Yo fams, any tips for my guild going in to mythic Argus phase 3? We’ve gotten 5-6% wipes. I think our biggest problem is losing half the raid just before 2nd Rez at tree.

Multiple things are killing us

I know it’s a pretty generic question

I just want to kill it!!!

[strange python]

dont die

[smoky tulip]

Roger that 😂

[dire spoke]

If people can't spread or stand on a non-moving scythe, don't ask what to do better

[strange python]

agree zem

[smoky tulip]

There are still one or two dying to those. But people are dying to chains too. Either they don’t live before breaking or the dot kills lots of people (we don’t run disc priest unfortunately)

[strange python]

DONT DIE .. :

[dire spoke]

get better healers

🤷🏻

[strange python]

use healtstones ?

def cds

as dps

[smoky tulip]

That’s not happening on the last boss of the expansion :/

[strange python]

if i didnt used feint on avatar mythic they raped me ;p

[smoky tulip]

Yeah maybe

[strange python]

next pull

[dire spoke]

I mean you can spec into elu and spam feint + vial

[smoky tulip]

Hmmm

Then I’ll get trashed coz my dps is low :/

[dire spoke]

that's not part of your problem

after a health nerf

[smoky tulip]

Hmmmm

Would it help to link our logs?

To see if healing is low?

[strange python]

tonight i will see my old friend argus

we will hit 500 pulls xD

[dire spoke]

It would help if the raidlead or whoever is handling this part would view the logs

[strange python]

today

[dire spoke]

and then view a #200 log maybe

and see how their healing is

[strange python]

if dps doesnt interessted is to avoid taking dmg its useless 😄 like warloxx

[dire spoke]

idk anything about requirements, I just hear alot of "ppl dying due to low heal" at argus

[strange python]

zempai actually not ingame ?

[dire spoke]

no

[strange python]

we die cause we are monkeys

😦