assassination

[main storm]

Even worst rofl

[viscid helm]

No

[atomic grotto]

legs are mistress

[viscid helm]

Maiden is chest

Avatar shoulders

[atomic grotto]

indeed

there is no hope

[safe matrix]

Just pray for godlike heroic titanforge

EZ

[main storm]

Haha

[obtuse hare]

Hey guys, just had a question and couldn't find an answer anywhere :

One of the racial traits of the nightborns increase the spell power by 1%. I've got an assa rogue, mainly poison damage.

Do you know if the racial take effect on the poison damage ? I mean, poison is supposed to be nature magic school damage, so it should be, but as it's not a direct spell, I don't know if it works.

If somebody has the answer 😄

[safe matrix]

It buffs poison damage but it still isn't good

[atomic grotto]

belf>everything

[safe matrix]

You can find the sims done for each race on herodamage

!trinkets

[chrome tusk]

List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

[safe matrix]

^^^^ it's the same link

[obtuse hare]

Thank you guys 😃

[atomic grotto]

with exsang build u still envenom at 4+ cps?

[viscid helm]

Yes

[atomic grotto]

so at 4 cps uonly use mut if u need to do a 6cp rupture?

[viscid helm]

Why do u need to do 6cp rupture

[atomic grotto]

before exsang?

[safe matrix]

I thought that was when you snapshot with ns

[spare cloud]

Playing bleed

Bleed is viable when your name is not slaggjack

[atomic grotto]

how can i see on logs

how many cpps where used per cast?

[spare cloud]

You can set a bar that shows cp at certain points and then abilities used

Then compare

[steep obsidian]

try the resources tab

[hollow escarp]

This is hard to decide. I have on my weapon a 950 Shadow Relic with Master Assassin, Master of Shadows and Master Alchemist and I got today from the weekly chest a 960 one with Master Alchemist, Murderous Intent and Master Assassin. What do you think I should do?

[vivid bone]

Sim yourself

[hollow escarp]

I basically have to chose between Master of Shadows and Murderous Intent + 10 ilvlels

I did

the new one is slightly better

[vivid bone]

There's your answer

[hollow escarp]

thanks

[vivid bone]

You did it all by yourself buddy

[hollow escarp]

I know, but also I don't like getting rid of Avoidance

on the other side, 1500 Versatility is still gret with Concordance

[vivid bone]

Hence why it's best to rely on sims. No feels involved.

Just plain numbers and results

[hollow escarp]

Yeah

[shrewd night]

I wish I could sim relationships

No feels involved

[strange python]

imagine the horror of the results tho :S

[shrewd night]

I simmed better with a cat than a chick

Easy choice

[vivid bone]

I have three cats.

[shrewd night]

Wow how good was that sim

[vivid bone]

Well, recently got dumped after 10 years relationship

so better than that.

[solid nova]

[shrewd night]

Richard

Get a cat

[solid nova]

Ive got one mate

Have you not seen the pictures

[shrewd night]

You ain't posting them often enough m8

[solid nova]

I'll reply in offtopic so Giggle doesnt rise from the dead to shout at me

[echo estuary]

"its not you, but me"

jk its always you

and your lack of abs/money/charisma/libido

[solid nova]

Perelman repressed memories coming through

Yikes

[vivid bone]

😮

[echo estuary]

am i wrong though? 😉

[vivid bone]

yep

maybe not for yourself though

I don't know you

[vapid moth]

Wut

[echo estuary]

well either that or you screwed around and got caught

[vivid bone]

Nah man, sometimes grown up people grow apart.

[echo estuary]

yeah right

[vivid bone]

Yeah, right.

[solid nova]

Boys boys boys

Dont make sin chat the Jeremy Kyle show

[vivid bone]

fair enough

Sorry Richard

[echo estuary]

watch and off she goes for the normie stock broker or the first steroid pumped player on the local gym. Or maybe she needs some BBC endeavours

[solid nova]

He's just had a 10 year stint, be nice comrade.

[echo estuary]

truth is, you didnt fulfill her needs

[vapid moth]

Time to tyb 😎

[honest needle]

on mythic eonar should we be putting ruptures on all the adds ?

i mean

mythic high command

not eonar lol

on the 3 adds that spawn

[clever niche]

Just FoK when they’re in range and tunnel the extra combo points you earn into the boss is the most optimal way I’ve found, adds simply don’t stay alive for rupture to do meaningful damage in the long run

[spare cloud]

Depends entirely on your group setup and on how fast they die 🤷

[clever niche]

My team has a three aff locks so the snowball effect is real

[civic hinge]

i got a 960 relic out of my mythic antorus chest yesterday, -0,4%dps(roughly 8k) but +4,55 avoidance for a total of 9,09% without gear. Feeling wise i think it was a good decision, but dunno. Feels bad dropping 3 ilvl on weapon :p

[strange python]

who has 50% baseline?

[spare cloud]

Not a good decision :p

[strange python]

maybe if your guild has ilevel 700 healers its a great choice ?

[vapid moth]

It's baseline with a cost of 7 energy per second

[strange python]

and how much energy do we make per second?

[vapid moth]

Not enough to keep feint up tf?

7 is basically the rupture + garrote energy return without the talent

[spare cloud]

???

Xaethron analysis is always best

[vapid moth]

That simple math not analysis

[spare cloud]

there is a difference between 7 per second and 35 every 5 seconds

[vapid moth]

That's what it comes down to

[spare cloud]

and it's quite noticable in some occations as well

also

analysis is simple math 🤷

when you're starting out that is

[strange python]

please elaborate

[spare cloud]

elaborate what?

[strange python]

analysis is simple math, i would like to hear more on your theory please

[echo estuary]

this gun be gud

[spare cloud]

It's not really a theory, it's just what you start out with when you start at a little higher level. So it's simple compared to higher math. But then again there is also a difference in the level of "analysis" so....thats why I said its what you start out with as it's the simplest form and a good starting point

So well, it's really dependant on the context you put it in

[vapid moth]

God I fucking love penis

[spare cloud]

You can have really simple analysis as in high school math

but you can go way further than that

[keen inlet]

!warn @vapid moth not the channel or place for that, keep it in #off-topic

[chrome tusk]

Alright, @vapid moth has been warned because 'not the channel or place for that, keep it in #off-topic'.

[vapid moth]

What we get warning for that now?

[keen inlet]

If you can't understand why that would be a warning, literally the most wrist-slappy action a mod could take, then maybe you shouldn't be arguing/lecturing folks on math

Just a thought

[vapid moth]

That's not what I meant but ok

[keen inlet]

If you want to make unfunny non-sequiturs or off-topic comments, they belong in off-topic.

[vapid moth]

Understood

[keen inlet]

I wish tertiary stats were more impactful

universally

Speed is helpful to any spec in any situation, but it's a relatively weak stat

Leech is similar

You think that avoidance or leech are well-balanced/impactful for rogues?

[spare cloud]

Rogue doesnt benefit from avoidance as much as other classes

but leech can be useful 🤷

[keen inlet]

When I pick up a piece with leech on it I don't notice a difference, really

It's not going to make the diff between life or death, except maybe in solo

[spare cloud]

well yeah

[keen inlet]

As Outlaw I notice haste

[spare cloud]

but I don't think something that might be on an item or might not be

should have a huge impact over survivability

maybe if they change the system around it

could be good

[keen inlet]

I guess I just wish it felt more like "Awesome!" and less like "Oh, neat"

gemslots on a wf/tf piece = "Awesome!"

It's the difficulty in balancing. If tertiaries were too strong they'd feel "mandatory" ie any piece without them is "trash"

But if they're too weak (which I'd argue they are, right now) they feel like a sort of afterthought that "doesn't really matter but is neat"

[echo estuary]

just bring bk reforging

[manic vigil]

[marble hemlock]

tertiaries are a mistake

and id say they are incredibly strong right now, and undervalued, at least avoidance/leech are

avoidance was a big help for tanks on argus/varimathras/aggramar

[keen inlet]

avoidance helps tanks, there's no debate there

[marble hemlock]

in raids its less of an issue because youre looking at 18people as a unit, whereas in m+ everyone is looked at individually

yeah

[keen inlet]

I guess I'm guilty of not caring/taking M+ particularly seriously

[marble hemlock]

leech is by far the best stat for healers to have, especially pallies

[keen inlet]

when it's become a major part of the endgame

No Country for Old Players and all that

[marble hemlock]

and leech can become a very strong stat depending on the playerhealth/playerdps ratio

yup

leeching poison and a leech piece or two will put you close to 20% leech, which is actually quite insane

to get back to your original point, sockets and tertiaries are just something that shouldnt be in the game, or at least not decided by RNG

[echo estuary]

maybe work toward unlocking certain socket slots

[marble hemlock]

i liked mop when it was linked to blacksmithing

[echo estuary]

but i'd always propagate for vast customization

[keen inlet]

I liked when we had more control over gear

good thing we're getting that back with forced PL amirite

C O N T R O L
F R E E D O M

[marble hemlock]

T R I A L S

[echo estuary]

looks like young hannibal lecter

no seriously the resemblance is striking.

[zealous dew]

what's a trialist

[marble hemlock]

i wouldnt mind having sockets or even tertiary stats be related to long questlines, spanning multiple patches, that eventually unlock them bit by bit so you can add them to your gear

would also make a decent gold-sink

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/AeAPF/222ea52f04.jpg

like... that amount of tertiaries is just ridiculous

and i still sim 2.2mil with that gearset

[zealous dew]

lol that leech

[marble hemlock]

ive got a 57% leech set, hitting ~85% leech with chestproc+consumption, actually used that one once

was ridiculous

anyway, more control over our gear would be nice

more control over our talents would be nice too

right now most specs just feel like a half-finished mad-libs booklet and the talents are there to finish the story. if you want you can pick hemo, alacrity and dfa to make some fart-joke madlibs out of your class, but thats not really the point right

[shrewd night]

But more choices means the casuals have a harder time being viable with their own builds.

And we can't have that

Lord knows 41 talent trees made shit bad

[marble hemlock]

yeah well, either you give people multiple talents to choose from, or you dont want to confuse your low IQ casual playerbase

cant have both

im guessing thats why we get azerite pieces now, where you can "choose" your bonus, only that each spec just gets one it can use 😃

[solid nova]

I want more control over my gear so i can have 25 gear sets

[marble hemlock]

i got 15 😦

[zealous dew]

i want 24

[marble hemlock]

guess thats why i didnt make it to mdi

[vivid bone]

I have 3 gear sets

[marble hemlock]

compared to the bruh

[zealous dew]

hehe

you didn't make it because you no monk bro

you no SPCK

[marble hemlock]

i played monk

my team didnt tho

[zealous dew]

more spck then!

[marble hemlock]

learned monk in 2days

was carrying hard

6mil overall in NL, but not enough 😦

[zealous dew]

lul

monk takes years to learn 😮

[echo estuary]

who was that beast monk in toms guild?

he applied to method yet?

[marble hemlock]

nah

monk took 2days to learn

[zealous dew]

i was sarcastic 😃

[marble hemlock]

i went to bed one night and had a vod from darkee running with audio while i was sleeping, hoping his spirit would seep into me in my sleep

seemed to work, next day i was blasting

and no, im not joking, thats how desperate i was to finish top8 during timetrials 😦

[zealous dew]

well was an experience

[solid nova]

Where did you finish in the end mate?

[marble hemlock]

on her face

wait

[solid nova]

Kinky

[marble hemlock]

didnt finish all runs

tried NL for 4days straight, couldnt get a good run going, so we called it early

had like a 19min upper, 21min NL

and still needed to redo upper with 4dps, and do a sub 9min maw to have a chance

but without the NL, there was no way in hell wed make top8 anyway, so thats where all our effort went into

was a nice experience though, definitely gonna try hard next time around

[proud locust]

is the site bloody crucible stat weights accurate for the netherlight cruci?

[exotic glen]

idk about them, but this is up to date https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/relics/1t-t21-rogue-assassination-boots-bracers

[proud locust]

tyvm

[exotic glen]

np boyo

[young briar]

Dis gud?

[spare cloud]

okay

[exotic glen]

its pretty good

[zealous dew]

smexy good

[glad ferry]

it's 4th bis

well

3rd technically

[hoary copper]

Its not bad. For some it sims pretty well depending on off pieces

[mossy hazel]

So bummed, had my best progress last week, got AotC finally, completed my highest key (+13) and got absolutely no upgrades... Weekly chest was a haste shoulder piece, and no loot or bonus off argus...

[solid nova]

Expecting upgrades from the weekly cache is a road to depression my friend

[mossy hazel]

Well considering how many pieces I still have at 930 I thought I'd have a pretty good chance with the 950 min from the +13

[solid nova]

Well its X item level (depending on M+ completed) based across all dungeons

So chances for well optimised upgrades arent as high as you'd want

Im on 6 weeks of shit so far

Haste gear meta

[mossy hazel]

I actually thought I got bugged on argus loot too... Asshole mage dropped dal crater portal as I was clicking the chest... Couldn't loot, never got mail saying "You forgot this". Ended up submitting a ticket to make sure I didn't miss anything.

God damn.. .6 weeks, I dn't want to hear that!

[solid nova]

Mate theres gonna be people with more

Just RNG 😄

[hoary copper]

Chances of getting an ilvl upgrade are good, stats you want; not so much

[solid nova]

Exactly

[mossy hazel]

Yea, but my luck is already below average! Lol

[hoary copper]

I have just stopped doing weekly m+ because its just more stress than its wort

[mossy hazel]

I was running LFR ToS (highest I've unlocked) on my druid alt last night, I got 5 cloaks... 5 different cloaks... None were an upgrade. Hahaha

[hoary copper]

My ilvl is only 955 so I feel you

[mossy hazel]

Once I get keymaster, I probably won't be playing my rogue much more in general. Maybe play around with outlaw a bit to get a feel for it before BfA, but that's it

[hoary copper]

LFR TOS, there's a poop show. I got my DH to 110 and had like 8 880 tokens and only 1 or 2 have stats I actually need

[mossy hazel]

it litearlly was a poop show... 5 stacks of determination for kiljaden I think...

[spare cloud]

I have never done lfr

[mossy hazel]

After i used all my tokens I think I was unlocked up to NH, so I did'nt do too bad in that regard, but I havne't really moved up since now.

[hoary copper]

5 stacks is pretty normal for KJ. If it isnt the soaking part that people miss its lack of dps. Yes. Lack of dps for KJ on LFR is still a thing

[mossy hazel]

Yup, we enraged twice at least

[solid nova]

Because people join LFR and afk

Or are just potato in general

[mossy hazel]

Or are the bare minimum requirement to enter

[hoary copper]

My DH is 824 after the tokens which I guess isnt bad for dinging. I dont really want to play it, I just wanted to have it at 110

[mossy hazel]

<-----------

[hoary copper]

I mean if there are a lot of people 200-300K and under on that fight its going to be rough. Same with Argus LFR, I hit that enrage a lot because of people under 400K

[solid nova]

And those people are either bots, afk or potatoes

LFR is a scary place

[mossy hazel]

It is... Scarier than that is how necessary it is...

[hoary copper]

110 boosts more than likely

[mossy hazel]

Unless you're Toph apparently

[hoary copper]

They get what, 870 from the boost?

[steep obsidian]

i think its funny when you point out people dying on purpose or who look afk and get

"its just lfr"

"stop being elitist"

[mossy hazel]

I don't know, I haven't used mine. Lol. I've still got a 100 and a 110 token

[steep obsidian]

its like they enjoy wastin gtheir time

[mossy hazel]

I'm scared of boosting because I don't want to be "that guy" who doesn't know his class. Lol

[spare cloud]

I know i would just troll in lfr

so I just dont join it

[hoary copper]

I have to buy bfa, idk what I'll boost. I may save it incase I server transfer or want to faction change on a new server

I mean I get it, its lfr its easy. But Jesus I dont want to be here all day because of potatoes.

[mossy hazel]

I need to go level one of my ally toons so I can get those allied races next. I really wish dark iron was horde, I want one so bad

[solid nova]

@hoary copper Yeah 880 from boost iirc

[mossy hazel]

Lol, my druid quick sims at < 500k right now, so I guess I'm not doing as poorly with him as I thought

[steep obsidian]

you have to actually try to get kicked from lfr

even fi you are afk people dont seem to care that much

like the only way to guarantee it is to completel screw up and not respond to anything as a tank

[lean hill]

If you ask people to do things properly like tank or heal you'll probably get kicked from lfr

[hoary copper]

"elitest" "dont tell me what to do!"

[night tapir]

Hey - one of the reasons I'm looking at Assassin for BFA is because it's the lowest APM (abilities per minute - literally how often you click something) melee spec. Can you think of any reason why that might change in BFA?

I know that haste will actually become useful again for example, and wondered if that will increase the pace a lot more than Legion?

[solid nova]

Assassination is one of, if not the lowest APM currently

With pruning it's only getting slower

It's still low APM.

[zealous dew]

well in m+ is quite fast

[night tapir]

Thanks @solid nova - are you on Beta?

[zealous dew]

just st is zzzzzzzz

[solid nova]

I have Beta, I'm currently at work.

Can confirm, still slow.

[night tapir]

thanks. I know it seems weird but I've mained fury for Legion and I actually want a slow paced spec where I have more time to concentrate on boss fights, other raider's positioning etc (I raid lead quite often)

[solid nova]

Quite a change from Fury to Sin in terms of APM

[night tapir]

and also get to think about the ability you are going to press more, rather than just going mad clciking every 0.5 seconds like I do with Fury + haste + BL

[solid nova]

Well dont worry, you'll have auto attacks on your damage done a lot higher up

Plenty of time to be looking else where 😄

[night tapir]

haha. I'm not saying I think assassin is easy AT ALL by the way, I know there can be a lot of tactical decisions about overlapping poison buffs, empowered ruptures, toxic blade window etc

it's just the APM I want to reduce

[solid nova]

Assasination is easy dw

[vapid moth]

It will be hella easy in BfA

[night tapir]

fair enough

Easy can still be fun, right though?

I mean you guys all main it

[vapid moth]

Depends

Easy and slow doesn't seem fun

[solid nova]

I mean, whats fun is subjective to the player

[night tapir]

but isn't it "easy and slow" right now in Legion compared to other melee?

[solid nova]

Its easy and its slow yes

[vapid moth]

To half of people in the game pressing a button and seeing damage is fun. No matter how much damage it is

[solid nova]

In terms of melee apm

Pretty sure assasination is the lowest

[vapid moth]

Man school lunch is so shitty

[solid nova]

And in terms of ease of picking up

Its incredibly easy imo

[night tapir]

It is according to SimulationCraft.com yes

[solid nova]

Few basics, followed by small fine tuning

[night tapir]

so what do you guys all enjoy about assassin then?

since I'm thinking of maining it 😃

[solid nova]

Fat poison bomb procs.

Cloak is op

Surviavility in general being high

[spare cloud]

I play rogue because I came back from a break and was forced on it

🤷

[vapid moth]

I like the stealth

[hoary copper]

Survivability is pretty nice and cheesing stuff

[vapid moth]

It's good for doing most things

[mossy hazel]

I main sin because I suck at sub

[spare cloud]

that too

I suck at sub

[vapid moth]

Sub is like the complete opposite of sin

[spare cloud]

I'd say demon hunter is the complete opposite of sin

You just press one button without considering anything

[vapid moth]

Completely disagree there

[spare cloud]

but many times

as assa you have to plan ahead

[mossy hazel]

I mean I'm not very good at sin either but... Worse at sub

[spare cloud]

I mean thats what you practice for

right

learning is fun

[solid nova]

Depends what we're learning Toph

[patent topaz]

My dh is rocking 4p t19 so still the old chaos blades, blade dance build which is not as spammy

[night tapir]

I like the idea of sub, but when you play it feels like there are like 3 extra buttons that shouldnt be there. Like why the hell is an ability like Nightblade a core part of Subs rotation?

[solid nova]

Because its a damage buff?

[vapid moth]

They coulda made it a passive aura with a timing mech

[viscid helm]

3 extra buttons lmao

[spare cloud]

You mean like

[solid nova]

Dw about the 3 extra buttons

[viscid helm]

so you'd want it to be just backstab and evi

[solid nova]

You got 10 less in bfa

[night tapir]

I mean thematically? It makes sense for Sub to be about going into stealth midfight with shadow dance, but why do they have a dot that's also a buff that has to be maintained?

[viscid helm]

nice fucking class design

[keen inlet]

3 BUTTONS

[viscid helm]

ur worse than blizzard

please leave

[keen inlet]

@viscid helm too far

[solid nova]

I mean

Maintaining a buff

Isnt exactly a hard ship mate

[patent topaz]

Duration could be rupture duration or 2p T19,15 seconds is annoyingly short

[spare cloud]

You dont even maintain it 100% of the time

[solid nova]

Its fine

[vapid moth]

It feels out of place on sub. What kinda ninja maintains shit

[night tapir]

what I mean is if I want to play a spec around maintaining dots, I'd play assassin, not Sub

[spare cloud]

try ninja in ffxiv

[vivid bone]

[spare cloud]

its one dot

[keen inlet]

FFXIV ninja is a totally different thing tho

[solid nova]

Theres better classes for dots

[spare cloud]

its not dots

[keen inlet]

HAND JUTSUS BROH

[spare cloud]

You maintain one dot

[keen inlet]

or signs or w/e

[spare cloud]

which is totally fine

Like youre supposed to be a guy who deals his dmg

[keen inlet]

fwiw I agree with Moon, I don't think it necessarily fits the theme or flow of the spec

[spare cloud]

then goes into hiding aagin

I think the idea of dots fits well with sub and assa

only not so well with outlaw

[solid nova]

Pirates dont need no rules

[keen inlet]

Bleeds worked fine with combat/outlaw

[spare cloud]

because you're kinda crippling your oponent or weakening him for the next attack

[keen inlet]

dirty fighting

etc.

[patent topaz]

Maintain snd, rupture and recuperate

Give that back

[spare cloud]

dirty fighting

would be like kicks to the balls

or the vag

[solid nova]

With a wooden leg

[mossy hazel]

I'd play that

[spare cloud]

me too

[night tapir]

haha

[keen inlet]

tbh

[manic vigil]

[keen inlet]

poisons are kinda "dirty/unfair fighting"

sneaking off while your foe bleeds out

[spare cloud]

true

[manic vigil]

Assassinations aren't about fairness duh

[spare cloud]

assassinating targets

and fighting diry

are related

tbh

[keen inlet]

yeah

so that's a difficult fantasy to build off of

assassination = assassins
Sub = ninja
outlaw = everything else more or less. Thugs, in BFA

[marble hemlock]

everytime i think about "assassinating" i think quick and clean

not drawn out and dirty

[keen inlet]

Yeah, that bugs me too

[viscid helm]

just make sub a ranged spec

[mossy hazel]

Stealth archer spec

[keen inlet]

but traditionally assassinations have been carried out with poisons

certainly.

[patent topaz]

Sub ranged, outlaw tank

[mossy hazel]

Oh god

[keen inlet]

Sub could've been Narutospec tbh

shurikens broh

SYMBOLS OF DEATH

muh jutsus

[marble hemlock]

nah

poisons

are a womans weapon

[vapid moth]

1000 YEARS OF DEATH

[spare cloud]

sub could be like

[marble hemlock]

and i dont like blizz assuming my gender

[spare cloud]

ninja in ffxiv

[vestal wren]

sub class fantasy is ninja

[keen inlet]

"a woman's weapon"

[vestal wren]

walking on water

jesus was also ninja btw

[marble hemlock]

i mean, statisticially women are much more likely to use poison to kill someone

[keen inlet]

C A T L I K E
R
E
F
L
E
X
E
S

[vapid moth]

Women are toxic confirmed

[keen inlet]

0
falling
damage

[patent topaz]

Gotta reroll dh for no fall damage

[keen inlet]

@marble hemlock I'm legitimately curious, where is this stat lol

[night tapir]

It's kind of funny how the assassin artifact is Kingsbane, which poisons your target, yet when Garona used it to kill the king she just stabbed him with it right?

[keen inlet]

the real kingsbane dropped in Ulduar

and was a rusty dagger

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[night tapir]

lol

didn't know it dropped somewhere else

[keen inlet]

retcons btw

[vapid moth]

Lmao

[keen inlet]

well, technically not

because our garona is now alt u garona?

or something?

[patent topaz]

Just a name

[keen inlet]

I can't even keep track. WoD ruined everything

[patent topaz]

I dont even remember it dropping

[keen inlet]

I have/had it

[manic vigil]

[patent topaz]

I dont get how people rember shit from vanilla/bc. I dont remember anything from last expansion

[vapid moth]

Am I the only one who just hates ions face

[manic vigil]

I like ion

Poor bastard

[night tapir]

Not that weird when you've played WoW for 10 years

I can name more WoW zones than I can capital cities in Africa.

[keen inlet]

I think he's a fine guy. His communication skills are lacking, and I'm sorely concerned about his leadership/the direction he's moved WoW in

but as a dude he seems fine

[vapid moth]

That's cause wow zones are more relevant that African capitals 😏

[keen inlet]

now they totally won't think I'm Ion haha clever move Don

[vapid moth]

But his face though

I hate his face

He just has that face to hate

[vapid moth]

Look at his eyebrows

His small lips

[vapid moth]

His thin beady eyes

[keen inlet]

they are really small eyebrows tbh

[vapid moth]

His Jewish nose

[keen inlet]

@vapid moth ???????

[vapid moth]

Wut

[keen inlet]

"jewish nose"

was that necessary or even accurate

did you think before you hit enter

[patent topaz]

Always press enter

[vapid moth]

Yes I did. Most people know what I'm talking about when I say Jewish nose

[solid nova]

@vapid moth I think its only fair you post your face to compare.

[keen inlet]

Xaethron you will paint by the numbers
I will learn you

"jewish nose" is an ethnic slur, don't do it.

[solid nova]

^

[manic vigil]

Xaethron

[spare cloud]

In china there is a saying that you should think 3 times before you say something

[keen inlet]

can't believe I have to explain this shit

[spare cloud]

You are one of those people that should think 9 times

[manic vigil]

[vapid moth]

So we aren't gonna act like some groups don't have more prevalent physical features?

[solid nova]

Depends if you're going to use that factor as an Ethnic slur lmfao

Come on mate

Wakey wakey

[keen inlet]

We're gonna say that

1. it has absolutely nothing to do with Assassination
2. It's not important to bring it up
3. It's still an insulting stereotype

Consider that your warning. 2nd one of this morning...keep it up it's El Muterino for you, give you plenty of time to think before hitting enter

Capeesh?

[vapid moth]

Smh

[keen inlet]

I like having fun

but having fun in a public setting requires a teensy bit of sense

[hoary copper]

Just ban him and be done >.>

[shrewd night]

'We aren't going to act like some groups have more prevalent physical features' said no white supremacist ever

[keen inlet]

@shrewd night Let's not keep it going

back to sin or at least WoW convo

gdi bruen

nice self-delete lol

[hoary copper]

Idk what you're talking about

[kind forge]

Double poison bomb chance in bfa POGGERS

[keen inlet]

@kind forge can't say it feels op on beta

[hoary copper]

I'm the innocent one of Sin

[keen inlet]

just feels...much the same

[solid nova]

Doesnt matter when CT is better

[keen inlet]

TCers discussing CT actually being underpowered in most scenarios

extremely niche

[kind forge]

Thought it would Feel better

[keen inlet]

but numbers haven't been ironed out yet

[solid nova]

feel better

🤢

[keen inlet]

I think it does feel better, but it's still rng

[solid nova]

Numbers > Feelers

[kind forge]

I get you jose

Just change to an active ability with 2 charges

*it

[keen inlet]

That's not gonna happen

[kind forge]

Yea I know

[solid nova]

Forcing PB will never come to be

[kind forge]

Would be still cool tho

[spare cloud]

Play ffxiv if you want challenging rewarding gameplay

without rng

[kind forge]

No i wont thx

[spare cloud]

Why not

hater

[keen inlet]

rewarding is debatable

On FF I feel like all abilities hit like a soft pillow

different game

different feel

[solid nova]

I'm awful at DS3

Feel like i'd fall into the same boat for FF

[spare cloud]

ffxiv feels like

[solid nova]

Rather not tilt off the face of the earth

[spare cloud]

If you are actually good at the class youre gonna get good logs

but there are less raids

less variety

[keen inlet]

Eh it's straightforward. Where WoW is moer priority rotation etc, FF is basically dancing around mechanics, target swapping, and rotation gameplay

[spare cloud]

less classes/speccs in general

[vestal wren]

if you are good at the class and have good gear/group*

[solid nova]

Sounds like wow

[spare cloud]

Yeah right

[keen inlet]

tbh at this point idk why folks would choose MMOs

[vestal wren]

ff enforces no-log polacy

[keen inlet]

they need to evolve imo

[solid nova]

Same Jose, Im waiting too

Also, entertain me

Evolve, how?

[surreal bolt]

Some mmos have evolved

[cosmic pier]

If I'm at 3CP and TB is going to drop before I can get more points, is it worht just casting the 3CP envenom?

[keen inlet]

Into VR I guess. IDK. None of them really innovate at all

[jovial kite]

its funny

wow is devolving

[keen inlet]

And most of the MMOs have actively taken steps that make community unnecessary

[surreal bolt]

I like the combat system in games like gw2

[solid nova]

@cosmic pier Yes.

[keen inlet]

I can rant more about this is #off-topic

[surreal bolt]

For pvp anyway

[jovial kite]

whats the latest innovative thing in wow

im not talking about rng and reward traps

[solid nova]

Pet battles probably

[jovial kite]

mmo aspect

[spare cloud]

transmog

[surreal bolt]

Mythic+ is legit

[hoary copper]

@keen inlet

[solid nova]

Without M+ i would not be playing this game.

[surreal bolt]

Best thing they've done in a while

[hoary copper]

Just needed an excuse to use that

[jovial kite]

there goes tom again

[keen inlet]

yep

[hoary copper]

I dont particularly like m+ people are toxic enough in raids never mind 5 mans

[strange python]

lol

[spare cloud]

Why do you even play the game

[kind forge]

I'm not a hater lol @toph

I just don't play everything

[cosmic pier]

eh once your in high keys most people are good

[jovial kite]

@Toph#0001 because i need to hold myself from working out too much because if id unleash the beast the world wouldnt be the same

thats why i play

[warm parcel]

IRL sao?

[hoary copper]

I ask myself that a lot lately. I used to be able to raid all the time and that was enjoyable, now its harder to find time

[solid nova]

@hoary copper I don't pug M+, its a mine field of all kinds of shit fiesta potentials.

[cosmic pier]

just don't be impatient when forming a group

[warm parcel]

[strange python]

i barely find toxic people in m+

and if i do i just leave group and move on

whats the deal

[spare cloud]

Yeah slag

[cosmic pier]

I pretty much only pug, 3700 atm

[keen inlet]

What do we think about

Master Assassin talent 😎

[cosmic pier]

chasing 4k this week

[spare cloud]

you also play bleed because as poison you would just get all 100's

[jovial kite]

yeah

exactly

[solid nova]

This weeks affixes are perfect for pushing

[jovial kite]

i live for this constriction

to master the blade one must master the mind

[spare cloud]

Your gameplay is lacking

[jovial kite]

yes

[surreal bolt]

10-14 keys are the worst. Because people are bad and they aren't easy enough to ignore shit

[jovial kite]

because if i let myself go

there wouldnt be a leaderboard

ther wouldnt be a competition

just apocalypse

[solid nova]

I M+ with guildies and friends, and on voice

[strange python]

people are still at this bleeding shit?

lol thats old

[spare cloud]

[jovial kite]

[cosmic pier]

I wish i had guildies good enough to do high m+

[solid nova]

Rather wank with sand paper then pug with randomers on higher keys

[cosmic pier]

like 3/5 of my group are decent, but usually theres 1 dps that lets us down

[spare cloud]

I wish i knew people good enough to play high m+...because thats totally not on me

🤷

[jovial kite]

top

h

ur old avi was better

[solid nova]

You should see his real face

[hoary copper]

I pretty much only PUG because guild and server are pretty much dead. I just have too many 110s and it costs too much to go to another server

[solid nova]

He's so handsome

and wont show

It's frustrating

[jovial kite]

yes hes like me

[fast nacelle]

day 213 - i sitll read toph when i open this channel at least once

[jovial kite]

holding back the beast

[solid nova]

Too damn good looking for mortal eyes

[spare cloud]

why was my old avi better

[jovial kite]

more qt

[hoary copper]

Wow top guild on my server according to wowprogress is 4/11...sad day

2/11 for alliance

[manic vigil]

Just transfer

[hoary copper]

Ranked 115 out of 120

[manic vigil]

Who cares about alts. Make new ones

[hoary copper]

I know Im just terrible about picking one to stick to and then leveling them is gross

[solid nova]

Find a sugar daddy to buy you 10x 110 boosts.

Simple

[spare cloud]

@jovial kite which one

this one

when it updates 🤷

[hoary copper]

Richard, are you offering?

[spare cloud]

I would buy boosts for sex

[marble hemlock]

almost beating boomy/dh in eoa 😮

[jovial kite]

@Toph#0001

[spare cloud]

btw

this week avatar when?

[tough ridge]

XD

[jovial kite]

tuesday

[solid nova]

Right, the Toph @s are fucked. Glad to see its not just me.

[spare cloud]

it's a stupid people curse

[jovial kite]

tox

mods

[solid nova]

Bruen, Not sure how it works if i'm younger than you, but we can give it a go.

[tough ridge]

Such Assassination talk 😛

[solid nova]

😛 😛 😛

Cringe emoji

[tough ridge]

🤪

[spare cloud]

Post your logs please

so we have something to laugh at

then

[hoary copper]

Oh we can give it a go alright. I think instead of sugar daddy they call that sugar baby 😄

[spare cloud]

why not sugar mommy

[solid nova]

Because the money isnt coming from her? 😂

[hoary copper]

Im sure thats a thing too

[solid nova]

My dear Toph

[marble hemlock]

https://i.redd.it/rizeuqqhh9v01.png

had to laugh

[solid nova]

We'll get drunk and have another late night chat about the birds and the bees

[hoary copper]

Lol whos that in your new avi? thats not kpop @spare cloud

[jovial kite]

its toph pop

[solid nova]

Tpop

[spare cloud]

dude

[jovial kite]

all germans look like that

[spare cloud]

the best thing is

look at the bottom

[hoary copper]

I have no issues tagging

[spare cloud]

where it says

[solid nova]

Must be the technique

[spare cloud]

blood "now a level 60 talent"

its harryhook

from overwatch

[keen inlet]

I laughed.

[spare cloud]

Should I go back to my classic avatar?

the one I used before kpop and nitro

[solid nova]

Original Toph

Best Toph

[jovial kite]

oh

nonose toph

[spare cloud]

done

[solid nova]

Look at those lips

[shrewd night]

Woooooow

[solid nova]

Damn son

[shrewd night]

That's deep

[solid nova]

😩

[hoary copper]

Between the DA and WW, their movement may not be super bad?

[spare cloud]

thats my first self portrait

how do you think it turned out

[shrewd night]

Oh. I had the default avi show for like 1 minute there

[solid nova]

Link me your tinder profile xoxo

[shrewd night]

And I was all like 'well he wasn't wrong'

[spare cloud]

[hoary copper]

those are some DSL

[jovial kite]

digital subscriber line?

[spare cloud]

damn sexy lips

[jovial kite]

dim sum lips

[fast nacelle]

[hoary copper]

Lips made for things that happen in jeeps apparently Slagg

[keen inlet]

[fast nacelle]

are u guys hyped for bfa sub

[solid nova]

Dead spec

No

[spare cloud]

Yes

[hoary copper]

filler xpac

[fast nacelle]

its so straight forward they remove talents

so you cant mess up - its fantastic

[solid nova]

It's going to be assasination > dead spec 1 > dead spec 2

[spare cloud]

I enjoy the slow gameplay because I can't play mechanics otherwise

[fast nacelle]

only one talent per row

[shrewd night]

I'm uh

[undone lodge]

heya guys !!!

[shrewd night]

More hyped for outlul than ass

[keen inlet]

idk why you'd be hyped for outlaw

[solid nova]

Not being hyped about ass

smh

[fast nacelle]

nothing to be hyped about at all for outlul

[solid nova]

Outlaw is shit

Sub is shit

[fast nacelle]

nothing new just removals

[keen inlet]

mastery doesn't suck and that's about the only thing that has truly changed on beta for the better

[shrewd night]

ON DEMAND AOE HELLO

[fast nacelle]

they even took free pistol shot after ambush

[keen inlet]

and Blade Flurry is stronger but "more work" now

[jovial kite]

i think they sublime test the waters with assa. they drop the apm close to 10 so they see how people react if it was ffonline

[solid nova]

@shrewd night Are you saying Outlaw is going to be better?

Am i understanding you correctly

Confirm or deny

[fast nacelle]

they make assa mainline and bring it to 2 apm so when someone gets ddosed at mdi no one will notice

[shrewd night]

Assuming I'm Assuming things about BETA?

[jovial kite]

lol

[shrewd night]

U wot m8

[keen inlet]

I am slain

Tyra killed me

[fast nacelle]

ok sorry

[keen inlet]

with that joke

[fast nacelle]

REMAKE

[spare cloud]

Kjell

[solid nova]

@shrewd night I wager you a happy meal that Outlaw will be shit

[shrewd night]

I'd wager you a mcflurry that sin will be shit because underpowered blindside

[fast nacelle]

"look at this assa rogue.. look at this dmg.. look at 'em moves... the pooling"
"but slooth, why isnt he moving?"
"he's focusing - give gingi a second to calm down"

[solid nova]

Mcflurry vs Happy Meal

You got yourself a deal.

[spare cloud]

mcdonalds in 2k18

[solid nova]

Just need to find another game to play when bfa comes out so i dont fall asleep at my keyboard when raiding

[undone lodge]

happy meal 😻

[shrewd night]

You still got ff14

[spare cloud]

@solid nova slay the spire

[shrewd night]

Oh wait

[vestal wren]

you can play sub 😉

[solid nova]

Ive not even played FF 1

[mossy hazel]

bring back the peggle addon so you have something to do?

[solid nova]

Gambling addons mid raid

[fast nacelle]

@vestal wren how to play sub. in 2 weeks we aint got any 90 and 100 talents 😦

[solid nova]

So you can press 1 a few more times throughout the fight

[fast nacelle]

they ll bring sub to the same apm like assa

but im not negative

[vestal wren]

i am actually intressted in what talents they will add

[fast nacelle]

if its nothing which lines with symbol

like dfa did

but then again..it shouldnt be talent

[vestal wren]

i assume they will add a dfa like talent back

[fast nacelle]

current sub gameplay is fine idk why they want to add another must have one

[vestal wren]

would make sense to keep a similar gameplay

[fast nacelle]

idk.. we'll see

so far bfa for me is

just legion light

removing things that made specs playable in legion

and thats the baseline left and they think they ll fix with azerite traits

and i believe so aswell.. cant wait for hyped +5 ilvl trait to farm

fucking dogshit company lmao

its fine tho... they just cant do 2 good xpacs in a row

as long as ion smiles on twitch im happy

[vestal wren]

i expected them to keep dfa tbh

[fast nacelle]

if they dont want 10 pages of spells over xpansions just make some good passives into the spells itself

[vestal wren]

but i assume they just add it back in a slightly diffrent form

[fast nacelle]

ambush also gives you free pistol shot proc.. voila

maybe they add a azerite trait to remove sod from gcd

[vestal wren]

rtb needs a fix

[fast nacelle]

this whole row needs a fix

idk which drunk monkey made this row

loaded dice alacrity and snd

in one row -

[cursive hatch]

why is alacrity not baseline yet?!

[vestal wren]

🤔

[fast nacelle]

its too exciting to be base line

you need to choose it like your wand chooses you before you enter hogwards

[safe matrix]

But what if you're a muggle

[fast nacelle]

but beside all these facts i rly like beta

[cosmic pier]

@mossy hazel you can play the peggle addon now https://github.com/adamz01h/wow_peggle

[cursive hatch]

its too bad, the environment of BFA is really cool

[undone lodge]

do you guys remember Combat Rogue AoE finisher name?

[cursive hatch]

but god the fucking classes and specs are garbage

[fast nacelle]

questing in bfa is cool aswell - and the zones are cool

[safe matrix]

Classes should get better over the expansion, but at launch they're gonna be ass

[vestal wren]

most caster feel kind of similar

in gameplay

[safe matrix]

I just hate that they standardized subs unique playstyle

[cursive hatch]

classes should be fully playable and self contained, and additions from azerite armor should enhance and change things

not make it viable

[vestal wren]

they might dont do that

but we will see

only issue i see currently is the loss of energy procs, but thats a design decision i guess

[fast nacelle]

as long as we get traits like +5 ilvl and +30 ms and 200 healing when we kill enemies

i stay hyped

cant wait for bfa

wait i can wait - waiting is on gcd :^)

[vestal wren]

do the +5 itemlvl impact the t1 trait?

[safe matrix]

When I read "+30 ms" I thought you meant there was a trait that ddos'd you slightly

[vestal wren]

as the t1 scales with ilvl

[fast nacelle]

its atm the last choice (or maybe even second last choice with "new" ui)

you start with choosing 1 out of 4

then 2
then 1

second one is heal/utility
then comes +5 ilvl

but they added another row below so idk

would be cool to see minor traits and 1 "golden" trait in each piece

so we keep roughly the dynamic trait system and have some impactful traits

but this would need some balancing and creativity
i hope they ll figure out

+5 ilvl is nothing you should have on this shit

unless you run out of ideas

which is reasonable for such a small indie company

[safe matrix]

My only hope is that it gets better over time, cause with legendaries and artifact power wasn't the start of legion kinda rough too?

[fast nacelle]

now thinking of it its maybe okay to have a bit clunky start. if you remove all traits in legion you are also fucked

if they ll do fine on the azerite traits it can work out. but some removed stuff still should be balanced to compensate

[cursive hatch]

the reason Legion start was rough

was everything was spec specific

[vestal wren]

+5 seems fine to me if it scales up t1 &2

[cursive hatch]

and legendaries was a trash system

[fast nacelle]

idk why you would put +5 in a system which is to give you flexible traits

for different scenarios

[cursive hatch]

less work per item

[fast nacelle]

you most like will have 2-3 chests

for diff situations

they said this

[cursive hatch]

you can spread your pool of ideas farther

by filling in with +5 ilvls

[vestal wren]

why not have a tier that just makes you stronger

[fast nacelle]

why would you remove 20% of this potential

[vestal wren]

it seems fine from concept

[fast nacelle]

into smth that makes everyone stronger for no reason without any real impact

[cursive hatch]

it also provides a stable increase

[fast nacelle]

if so they can remove just all abilities

[cursive hatch]

when the traits are sometimes shit

[fast nacelle]

and make this trait +200% dmg

with white hits

who needs traits if your aa's hit hard

doesnt make sense for such a system

at least to me

[cursive hatch]

its an easily balanced thing. Its a knob that can be changed later on if needed

its stable

[fast nacelle]

does it cause balance?

[cursive hatch]

traits are a volatile/unstable increase

[fast nacelle]

it causes unbalanced scenarios since not everyone scales as well

with ilvl

[keen inlet]

I don't like external things acting like talents honestly

[fast nacelle]

talents should be a choice

for different situations

+5 ilvl is just lame and stupid and doesnt fit

for the idea of having different items with different traits

its just a lame excuse for less work and knowledge on classes

[shrewd notch]

i have a hard time imagining choice, if they're trying to move away from "this is the aoe build, this is the ST build" mindset

[fast nacelle]

i d rather have different utility /heal things in this row

[vestal wren]

t1: you get the most powerfull trait
t2: you get an defensive trait
t3: you empower both earlier traits

it seems fine to me

[fast nacelle]

t1: you get the most powerfull trait
t2: you get an defensive trait
t3: you get utility trait

sounds better to me

reducing sprint cd... giving shs stack.. cloak cd reduction

feind no energy

stuff like that

[vestal wren]

this would made t3 less desierable

[fast nacelle]

i think its more useful to have these choices

[keen inlet]

I was thinking about it this morning. Blizz is in a difficult position.

1. Classes change wildly, frequently
   This is bad, overall, because people feel like they have to re-learn specs, and/or expect that if they don't like something it will change eventually because it often does. So it creates entitlement.

Solution: We get the "core" baseline specs down and solidified. Legion was the first step, BFA continues this.

2. Players need to feel progression, and that includes new abilities
   But constantly adding and subtracting abilities doesn't feel good either.

Solution: tie abilities more to items, so that it "makes sense" that they're lost and end of xpac and "re-earned," even if players resent that a bit it's just "part of the game"

[fast nacelle]

since it doesnt impact your piece of set

dps wise (trait wise)

but you can wear it like a blink chest for mage in hov +25

[keen inlet]

3. Reducing class dev team
   idk about the why of this, but it's definitely occurring, and fewer devs are working on more specs

Solution: see 1 & 2. Reduced effort in designing/balancing classes patch to patch.

[fast nacelle]

its a: okay its cool that i wear a piece of azerite chest based on the utility on it

the def traits are bullshit and lame aswell though

they had some good ideas with non dps legendaries and so far i dont see any of it

its more the bullshit NC trait style

[keen inlet]

Tyra I think your comment ties in to #3

[fast nacelle]

yeah

if you keep +5 ilvl do #2 at least

[keen inlet]

the more complicated defensive/utility traits are tougher to balance, so they're just skipping over them, no time

[fast nacelle]

in a proper way

if not remove +5 ilvl and seperate these lame NC #2 traits

from legendary effects

which will be in #3

but pls do either of these

the current #2 ones are so useless

they have so much potential

[keen inlet]

azerite's just an endgame progression system

that's all it is

trying to paint it as more than that is silly

engagement tool

[cursive hatch]

you have to view a lot of the choices from a development standpoint

all changes would take 600 hours, you have 400 horus of available time before deadline, what gets cut?

so you shortcut your changes

[keen inlet]

We aren't going to like it because we're generally resentful of it. We can see the wizard behind the curtain.

And we just had most of this stuff

So you can shrug and view wow like a Megaman game (lose your weapons every new game somehow)

[spare cloud]

What I'd like to know is

[keen inlet]

or get upset, but I'm not wasting emotional energy on WoW anymore

[spare cloud]

How was rogue in the beginning of the expansion?

i didn't play it back then

was it as slow as its going to be

[fast nacelle]

if you cant focus too much on azerite system cause you had not enough time (which is lol)
you can focus more on make base line specs more appealing

[spare cloud]

or was it faster already?

[keen inlet]

Rogue wasn't as slow as beta bfa

[spare cloud]

was the gameplay more exciting?

[keen inlet]

It was fun because rogue could "cheat" questing objectives etc much more than other classes

grappling hook up mountains etc

and then in raids rogue was underpowered...then competitive, then OP, then mid-tier

[spare cloud]

thats like a poor mans heroic leap

[fast nacelle]

legion rogue baseline was even faster than bfa baseline

considering legion rogue was fine to be a but clunky cause of massive amount of traits you farm in further 3 months

this system changes now - you ll have less minor and major impact

by default and even less cause you can stack traits

like you can have the same trait on 2-3 pieces of gear

[keen inlet]

the other issue with AP/traits was that it turned into "if you don't have them, you're underpowered. If you have them, you feel like your spec should feel baseline" because everything was tuned around you having them

[fast nacelle]

so its even more important to have good baseline specs

yeah but i think it was fine

cause you got them pretty fast

it wasnt perfect but it made sense

if you had all traits most specs felt alright - from gameplay perspective

not balancing one

and bfa - as i said - feels more like legion light right now

it will get eventually better cause i think they ll add a lot of traits for azerite gear

[keen inlet]

I'm not as optimistic

[fast nacelle]

but it will be kinda rng and still way less additions

well it will get better its not like they are that retarded

but i think they have no feeling for how much needs to be baseline

and how azerite should work - its not easy to balance and maybe legion was just a lucky punch

and they think they ll be able to do it again

but they wont for sure

but we'll see

[vestal wren]

azerite seems easier to balance tbh

from design

[manic vigil]

The r word

[fast nacelle]

to balance dps yeah

but not to balance how good a spec feels

[spare cloud]

using the r word while talking to don

[vestal wren]

the specs feel slower mainly bc. of the loss of certain traits

thats sth we need to accept kind of as i dont feel blizz wants the spec to be extremely spammy

outside of that sin does not play terrible, sub is wip and outlaw works but still needs a rtb change

[fast nacelle]

it just confuses me

legion feedback overall was very good and balancing was fine aswell

[jagged cape]

I’d like to see less RNG on PB, make it more reliable with less damage so it evens out damage capability.

[fast nacelle]

if you remove the 1-2 outliners each tier it was well balanced and people liked most of specs

why would you do just so many changes just for the sake to change something for next expansion

with a new expansion it shouldnt feel like "alright its just about removing and slowing wow down"

[vestal wren]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/378775020756926467/428139601958404096/distribution.png

spec balance was "fine" btw

[fast nacelle]

class balance

even spec balance was fine

[keen inlet]

What's weird to me was that Sub was king for a while

[fast nacelle]

its not balanced if all 3 specs are on top

[vestal wren]

sub was overtuned slightly in tos

[keen inlet]

oh wait there it is

ToS

didn't see that

heh

[fast nacelle]

legion was totally fine for assa and sub

[vestal wren]

kind of overtuned bc. strong dps + insane utility of rogue

[keen inlet]

I'll be happy when the delta is 5%, or even 10%, between top and bottom dps

[vestal wren]

it was a sin xpack

[keen inlet]

but it's not

[fast nacelle]

sub was always strong if you had proper legos
sub was op in tomb

[keen inlet]

there were times where the delta between top and bottom was as high as 30#

[vestal wren]

sub was op bc. of rogue utility

[fast nacelle]

bc of tomb bosses

[vestal wren]

yes

[fast nacelle]

but sub was also as strong as assa in NH

[vestal wren]

dps output of other classes was higher

[fast nacelle]

when assa was go to with ap

if you had proper legos gear and skill

[vestal wren]

subs main issue was legos

early in the xpack