the feeling i had after was something new entirely
#assassination
exotic glen
strange python
tov gets a lot of hate but i really enjoyed it.
steep obsidian
I miss mythic prog raiding but got sick of guilds falling apart and drama
strange python
only played for about 5 weeks of ToS due to irl stuff, but i heard after mystress it was a shitshow
steep obsidian
fuck mistress
strange python
it burnt me pretty hard
steep obsidian
150 wipes in tank still screwing up taunt people still padding on adds and wiping us
exotic glen
ill never forget hunters having done like 300 mil dmg on adds each to "get more st dps"
steep obsidian
How about you just stop pushing buttons for a few secs instead of killing everyone who has a fish by phasing too fast
exotic glen
even tho our st was more than enough
vapid moth
KIL'JAIDEN
steep obsidian
Nahhh too hard to take hand off kb for a few sec
vapid moth
No I agree
exotic glen
only thing that sucked was the darkness phase
being useless for 30 seconds is not fun
vapid moth
It's just the most aesthetically displeasing places to wipe many times in one night
steep obsidian
You only there to be soakbot
vapid moth
Actually that whole raid fits that description. Music was fucking annoying
strange python
i liked harjatan, but only because it reminded me of that ToT fight
vapid moth
I liked maiden and avatar
exotic glen
maiden was bis fight
vapid moth
Avatar had a lot going on. Felt like a real boss
exotic glen
yeah i especially enjoyed running out of melee range for some time when my cds just came up
to soak a circle
p2 was good tho
strange python
oh shit maiden
thaddius 2.0
cool on HC heard it was rough on mythic but didnt get there.
exotic glen
it was just another of those
1 mistake and everyone dies fights
other than being retardedly unforgiving, it was good
strange python
those are good if they dont also have a plethora of mechanics
if they have 2-3 mechs and you fuck one up and wipe the raid thats ok. but having 10 and doing so becomes really annoying
steep obsidian
I don't mind wiping to hard mechs you still figuring out
that fine
but when its just instant wipe to fuckin up ez mechanic that is annoyin
strange python
thats understandable sab.
exotic glen
think you're gonna have to give some examples
strange python
progress is fun though
i dont think id want to only do farm, had some people i M+ with join CE guilds for the free carry
vapid moth
"Why would I want to spend multiple nights a week attempting to kill something to no avail"
steep obsidian
the nerd scream is a thing for a reason
exotic glen
you can break down literally anything to its base fundamentals and nothing will sound fun ever
steep obsidian
i never raided for gear or even the content though it was for the peopel and when you realise that the people are often a bunch of dicks it gets meh
strange python
thats true lmfao
i found a guild that eventually
clears everything
and they're fun
vapid moth
True. But you really have to add a lot before the game starts sounding appealing
steep obsidian
different trials rotating through every week n shit
guilds fallin apart
left right n centre
strange python
the RL can be a bit of a spaz though, but hes not rude just high strung
kindred sedge
The sense of accomplishment after killing a boss that youβve been wiping on for hours and hours is what itβs all about
steep obsidian
there no incentive to stick with a guild anymore
and masterloot change will make it less so
vapid moth
COMMUNITIES
exotic glen
unless you value the people you play with perhaps
strange python
itd be worse if i didnt do m+ or pvp with people in my guild, i think i would have a bigger disconnect
exotic glen
trying to make friends in that game that you play most of the time is not a bad idea
steep obsidian
most guilds on oce are filled with idiotic teenage memers
vapid moth
Ive yet to meet another teen in the game
steep obsidian
well maybe they arent really teens they just act like it
solid nova
@vapid moth How can ToV not be considered when Helya was such a tightly tuned boss and arguably the hardest in Legion pre nerf?
strange python
oh no kidding OCE guilds, i feel like because its a smaller community its harder to find a guild
exotic glen
lmao the hardest in legion prenerf
vapid moth
I didn't know that. I just thought it was small
exotic glen
there is no way thats not prenerf kj
vapid moth
3 bosses is less than 11
solid nova
Did you ever raid it?
vapid moth
You could clear the raid in 1 night
quick ice
OCE recruiting is... challenging
solid nova
ToV was solid wtf
steep obsidian
mythic tv prog was hard as hell
solid nova
The comparison from EN - ToV was such a high difference
steep obsidian
until they nerfed helya and the 2nd boss then it was a bit of a joke
solid nova
Pre nerf though, it was such a tight check
steep obsidian
helya after nerf wasnt THAT bad just punishing on mistakes
the actual dps checks weren't hard after nerf
solid nova
Helya didnt allow for mistakes even after the nerf, thats what made it difficult
Yeah, exactly
steep obsidian
as a healer though it was rough
quick ice
its pretty weird going back to it nowadays because of just how much more DPS we have available
solid nova
@vapid moth Clear it in 1 raid night in Heroic yes, but if you're talking about raid challenge, I assume you would mean Mythic.
Not a heroic stomp
Talking about raid challenges and then referring to heroic? 
steep obsidian
yeah heroic has been a joke all expac tbh
exotic glen
im still confident kj was harder
steep obsidian
well i guess heroic Helya was kinda hard for the first week or 2
strange python
oh yeah no from what i understand prenerf KJ was rough
steep obsidian
they actually nerfed that one alot
strange python
helya HC was rough before any nerfs
you couldnt even pug it until NH was on farm at least in US
exotic glen
well method did seem to make progress through the impossible parts so maybe, maybe not
solid nova
I didnt mind ToV in the fact, yes it was difficult but it was so small it wasn't too horrific
EN to ToV scaling was stupid though
steep obsidian
i was in a good guild at start of wod with a lot of good players and herioc blackhand handed us our butts first week
heroic archi wasnt a faceroll either first week or 2 peopel were klling first few on mythic before that boss
exotic glen
only as a raider
solid nova
I skipped WoD
exotic glen
not many aspects of the game was good
strange python
the fights looked top tier
exotic glen
raiding was good tho
strange python
otherwise looked pretty bland
strange python
1 year of SoO was the feelsbadman part
steep obsidian
mop was the best expac so far imo
strange python
aside from the end of it, mop was good
strange python
but ToT i think best raid of that expac
im hoping we get a bit more of that theme during BFa
solid nova
ToT was another i missed out on 
steep obsidian
there wasnt a bad fight in tot and it was a long raid
steep obsidian
i may be a bit biased about mop though coz my raid team peaked there pretty much and the people i had fun with have mostly quit since
strange python
i think thats kinda how everyone is though
mop when current got a lot of shit
but i do miss it
its when i started raiding seriously
steep obsidian
mop at release OMFG TOO MUCH CONTENT, wod at release OMFG NO CONTENT
also i like this channel when the mods arent around to tell us to take it to off topic π
strange python
aside from legendaries, legion was premium
steep obsidian
m+ the best feature
solid nova
^
exotic glen
new raid every 77 days was also a bit much
solid nova
Legendaries would have been fine, if there wasnt such a dependency on certain ones
exotic glen
would have liked some more nighthold farm
strange python
same
steep obsidian
legos would have been fine if they worke d at release the way they did in 7.3
solid nova
I played warrior in NH
strange python
the 7.3 fix
strange python
truth
exotic glen
DoS was something special lmao
strange python
the thing was even without DoS they still did nutty damage
steep obsidian
having broken shit like 9 second crit shoulders bugged and bm dire beast charge shoulders was dumb as helll
exotic glen
i remember one of our fury warrs on guldan began disenchanting his DoS midpull
steep obsidian
they are all a lot more balanced nowadays
exotic glen
idk how you even do that
strange python
i wanted to play fury this expac but in 7.2 i got shitty legos and dropped it because rogue got shoulders
solid nova
Top damage as a trinket 
steep obsidian
I dont miss DoS
solid nova
Dos was a terrible idea lol
steep obsidian
i dont like losing control of character
wise frigate
I had a normal DoS on my Fury warrior. As long as the thing died right after DoS wore off I looked like a god at 865.
strange python
CoF and DoS were both bad trinket design imo
wise frigate
Otherwise I did 0 damage.
steep obsidian
if you need to make a fucking macro for a trinket or ability because it might kill you if you pop it at a bad time it not great design imo
solid nova
Get your DoS timings right and it was easy parsing
strange python
having to nerf CoF for ret right out of the gate shouldve told them
that it was a bad idea
strange python
same with fury
seems like they wouldve just nerfed it to shit after that but they just didnt
even now its bis for fury
exotic glen
lmao you guys seen the MDI bets?
strange python
for NA? or globals
steep obsidian
π
exotic glen
some team has 1 to 751, friend is betting a 10'er and can get 7,5k back
strange python
L M F A O imagine
strange python
could happen though
solid nova
who's 751:1?
exotic glen
true that
strange python
after the EU fiesta today, anything can happen
steep obsidian
the eu teams all look so strong though
steep obsidian
actually i didnt even check who won last night that remind me
strange python
the casters kept saying that everyone in europe looked strong but like the top 4-5 did but after that there was a clear decline
viscid helm
Why
strange python
did they beat ashine? ive actually been rooting for him for a lil while
exotic glen
i just watch their streams a lot and like them
strange python
muscle can kinda be annoying imo and id pref ashine wins, but i can only really root for the 2 of them since jdot's team is a shell without their dh
solid nova
At least Ashine cracked open his rogue
strange python
and other NA teams are people I actually have never heard of
viscid helm
Idk, ashines team seems to BE all over the place
exotic glen
@solid nova the 751:1 team is an asia-pacific team in the current losers bracket named team Bts
strange python
ashines team seems so strong in places, and sometimes the do some ????? things
solid nova
Pogchamps BRH is very good though
steep obsidian
the 24 tyrannical xavius with no defensive legos was ballsy
but i guess they had 3 breses
viscid helm
Kjells have like by far the best vault in mdi
steep obsidian
that was kjells
viscid helm
Dht
strange python
also that seat was a shitshow all around
viscid helm
FΓΆr remakes
vapid moth
Fuck court, dht, and arcway on fortified
viscid helm
strange python
i liked that korean team with the arms warrior that demolished the seat
or chinese rather
steep obsidian
the shit paladin healers can pull of is silly though it almost like they have a friggin group wipe loh
can any other healer heal a 24 tyrannical cos in their sleep?
solid nova
Pre bop pull everything
steep obsidian
seemed easy for them
solid nova
Some of the vault 1st pulls were nutty
strange python
there were some ballsy ones throughout the day
strange python
after the remake they got destroyed in dht π
though on a real note it does suck that the remake essentially changed the entire series, but method didn't play very well the whole series imo
exotic glen
did you hear that some bdks were running velens so now they had to ban that
strange python
the whole competition rather
viscid helm
Well if u go by that logic
solid nova
Naowh said on his stream after that they didnt practice and only practice upper "Once or twice" so thats why they ran double tank on upper
viscid helm
Method would have alrwady lost to fsy
solid nova
Method not practising π€
viscid helm
If admins didnt fuck up
strange python
thats true
vapid moth
How were dks running velen?
strange python
they shouldve lost to fsy
they just kinda played like shit
compared to themselves
exotic glen
they put it on
strange python
and others
vapid moth
Velens future sight?
exotic glen
yes
steep obsidian
so overheals go to the players who need it?
i can see how that world have worked well
steep obsidian
from the venor
exotic glen
they can but literally any legendary on tournament realms
strange python
π€
vapid moth
Oh ok
exotic glen
yeah its just set to 970
vapid moth
I didn't know
vapid moth
It's not common knowledge if you don't go on tournament realm
solid nova
How else do you think they got their gear?
strange python
the CoS between kjells and method showed method was doing good
but iirc doesnt kjells have r1 CoS
on live
strange python
their CoS imba played out of his mind imo, especailly last boss
he pulled off some crazy shit
exotic glen
imbaname is a fucking beast at hpal
strange python
hes a great heals and i feel like on that roster he gets looked over
because big names
gingi/frag
the vault double skip that Kjells did was crazy too though
exotic glen
generally i think people only care about dpsers
because omg so much dps
dont get why theres no healing meter as well
solid nova
Eye beam, Eye beam, Eye beam, Eye beam,
strange python
i want to see NA because im sure one of the only non hpals is jdot
and i want to see how he fairs versus all of the hpal action we've seen
steep obsidian
i don't think druid can even pull off some of the shit hpals can
exotic glen
wasnt there a rdruid in china
exotic glen
cant remember if sups is NA or oce
solid nova
It'll be a spicy one
steep obsidian
you should watch the vod of the chinese disc priest healing morose
if you havent seen it
strange python
you would have to know the timers so well
steep obsidian
never seen such spikey health bars
strange python
to setup for the damage
steep obsidian
he kept everyone at like 30% health for like 90+ secs
strange python
lmfaooo
then you LW and they're all 100
no point in playing disc tho, hpal out dps's you and still outheals you
exotic glen
lmao, that would have been 200 IQ plays with the new coming affix in bfa
where you do more dmg with low health
strange python
i wanna see some weird shit in globals, somebody practicing fort skittish necrotic or something
exotic glen
fort skittish lower monkaS
strange python
i hope that chinese team that runs the warrior advanced, im not sure who they were
exotic glen
was honestly surprised to see dhs over firemages tho
strange python
looks like it was skyline.TOP and they got elim'd
sun sky running disc priest arms warrior
lmfao
and they're going to globals
strange python
any series particularly i should watch of this disc priest?
strange python
gonna check it out while i head off to bed. thats neat though, i always like to see a non meta heals get tot he finals
steep obsidian
yeah the funniest part of it is that a holy pali could pull off the same stuff easily
which is why its a bit sad
grizzled agate
Just boosted a rogue to 110 and I am having a very hard time learning how to play compared to my friends who boosted 110 monks. Any advice?
solid nova
Comparing Sin to Monk?
Monks broken and out damages sin in all areas.
Have you read the guide in the pins?
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE
timber osprey
solid nova
1 and 3 is fine
You can always sim the relics on raidbots to compare dps gain/loss
@timber osprey https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/relic
atomic grotto
master assassin is love
jovial kite
glada vappen alla mΓ€nniskor πππππππππ
solid nova
Happy vape day? π€
jovial kite
mayday or labour day
trail heron
germany has only short work weeks this month
solid nova
Even more reasons why i want to move to Germany 
zealous dew
they shout too much in Germany
trail heron
actually, the 'how german sounds' videos usually overexaggerate it.
german can sound quite gentle and smooth, too. can't demonstrate however, because the only 'gentle and smooth' i can do is when getting affectionate or outright into 'bedroom voice' mode :p
spare cloud
Still has rough edges
german is just a practical language not meant to sound smooth
But it has it's other advantages
spare cloud
Well you can pretty much say everything you want to without it being overly long because we basically have a word for everything
You don't need to beat around the bush as much as you need to with english for example
trail heron
and there is the joy of composite words
spare cloud
If you're talking practical in the sense of usefulness
then chinese would be the most practical language
because it has the widest field of application
trail heron
like, say you want to refer to a retirement payment form for widows of captains belonging the danube steamboat society
DonaudampfschifffahrtskapitΓ€nswitwenrentenformular.
oh, sorry, forget the 'gesellschaft' in there :p
trail heron
or for motorized vehicles. for a car that is for persons: Personenkraftwagen. PKW (person power wagon, literally, word by word)
and for a load bearing vehikle: Lastkraftwagen (load power wagon :p)
zealous dew
lulz
spare cloud
Straightforward π€·
zealous dew
awwwwwwwww too bad
trail heron
also, contrary to common belief, speaking german doesn't result in you putting on a steel helmet and grey greatcoat, as you look for schweinehunde to shoot with your mauser carbine.
spare cloud
It does cause you to lose your sense of humour though.
solid nova
German just sounds angry though
trail heron
well, at least germans only go into the basement to laugh. the AUSTRIANS, well...
solid nova
It has a naturally aggressive tone imo
solid nova
I wish I had an Irish accent tbh
spare cloud
I'd move to the japanese countryside any day of the week
solid nova
I like it too much
trail heron
not to korea? :p
spare cloud
In korea I'd move to a city
trail heron
(we need a kpop emoji, by the way :p)
zealous dew
best accent/language is British
spare cloud
Citys in Korea > Citys in Japan
Countryside in Japan > Countryside in Korea
well, that also depends on where
trail heron
shantal, thats why i play a void elf rogue :p
the accent, plus some voiced lines for them....rrrr
goosebumps.
spare cloud
Horde π€·
solid nova
@spare cloud Do i have a stereotypical English accent π€
spare cloud
Idk man I can't tell accents appart I suck at that
solid nova
What
solid nova
That's very nice of you. You too babes xoxo
zealous dew
@solid nova may I use the restroom please ?
solid nova
Wheres your hall pass 
Furthermore, In the upper echelons of England, we call it a lavatory my dear chap.
π©
zealous dew
π
kind forge
LUL
echo estuary
[sΙrΛtΚ²ir]
solid nova
Errrrm
mossy hazel
That just raises FURTHER questions
mossy hazel
So hey, I just watched Infex's crimson tempest video, anyone think we're looking at bleed build > poison for BFA?
zealous dew
I call it peeing place, borrowed from my peeing instrument
echo estuary
very eloquent indeed
zealous dew
speaking of, ded cennel
echo estuary
all you need to know is blyat
zealous dew
which means
zealous dew
mmm, noted
just in case I have to travel to Russia for a "vacation"
speaking of ded, my 760 is ded, what can i buy to replace it
i don't want to spend a fortune
echo estuary
its seldom used for its literal meaning and more freely used as "fuck!"
trail heron
shantal, which country, and what is your budget. also, any brand loyalty between green or red manufacturer?
echo estuary
i heard italians use puttana outside of context too, for richer expression so to speak :p
and they use vaffanculo a lot
zealous dew
yeah sometimes
echo estuary
i like that word
echo estuary
especially on curva sud
zealous dew
haha yeah
zealous dew
ac Milan π
echo estuary
ah cool
high mist
Would it be possible for someone to look at a normal log for me on Vari to gauge how well im doing in assa?
Ideally someone who raids
Also I know the poison bomb damage is low I got unlucky
Also my gear isnt tuned to assa yet
mossy hazel
@high mist Your opener is pretty off. Should be Garrote > Mut > Rupt > Vend > Toxic Blade > Kingsbane (should be at 5cp at this point since you have shoulders) > Vanish > Envenom/Mut spam till second shoulder buff wears off
high mist
Hmm ok
solar willow
Do u track surge of toxins?
dire spoke
Which is even your rogue
solar willow
Do you know what surge of toxins is?
vernal adder
whats a rogue?
solar willow
@high mist look at the pinned messages and read the guides. Also look at icy veins for gear optimization and what is BIS
dire spoke
but there is no such thing as BiS 
mossy hazel
"Better in slot"?
strange python
is it worth spending my boost token on Feral if i love playing Sin? i have tried class trial but cannot make a decision. All i want is a laid back rotation like Sin with little to no button mashing.
solar willow
No no no
solar willow
Feral is one of the most underplayed specs for a reason
mossy hazel
Look at the Opener, getting that right is going to give you such a huge damage boost. You should also use the same rotation for your burst phase later in the fights too
solar willow
The only good thing about feral is stampeeding roar
mossy hazel
Well, burst should begin with vendetta and follow the opener from there
Your second vendetta didn't seem to line up with any of your good abilities. Your third cast is better, with TB and KB coming shortly after, but you could probably have lined up your vanish with it as well for a great burst phase
strange python
@solar willow I dont go with fotm, was just looking for something similar in terms of gameplay and fun factor
mossy hazel
Also, since you're using shoulders, I'm pretty sure you should be using Envenom out of vanish instead of rupture
high mist
Im just really struggling in raids with sub so im trying assa
glad ferry
So far I've reached level 120 on the beta and I was able to test most of assassination, seems like ok damage good burst with exsang? What do you guys think and I've seen a lot of outlaw rogues. Is outlaw looking to be bis in BfA?
solar willow
They brought back arms warriors so why not outlaw rogues too
dire spoke
@high mist your CD alignment was better on Coven, but again you randomly hit the buttons in the opener. Also you can try to use your CDs with vanish and go for vanish > env - I think it means delaying vanish with your boots and 5 MAss for the most time
supple hearth
Depends on what changes they make still. Can't really know what Is going to be the best spec for which scenario this early
Even when BFA is live they are probably going to continue to make changes and mess with the meta
high mist
Thanks Zempai and prototype I have been reading all of what you have said
solid nova
Someone said BiS
dire spoke
the SoT + Env uptimes on KB were actually not to bad - could clip it better but everybody struggles with that sometimes
high mist
Zempai bar whats been said already what would you say was my best fight there
dire spoke
@high mist also be prepared for TB a bit better, you often only got 1 envenom inside its uptime (example Vari) https://snag.gy/cTOvre.jpg
since you got the opener and some basics wrong on every fight, none is acceptable to title good
high mist
Thats not what I asked in fairness but noted
dire spoke
Why do you want to know what was your best fight when they are completely different in planning around mechanics
high mist
Because I almost got kicked from groups with my friend because I did shit damage on a boss in heroic in sub spec so im trying to do something about it and I have been told that assa is more of a raid spec
And it turns out that im clearly struggling with it as well
mossy hazel
It is, but you really need to work on the fundamentals before you can start really fine-tuning things.
dire spoke
Well I'm not going through your logs because some insecure RL said sin is better and you didn't have a good play, because all specs are viable on heroic pugs
π€·π»
solar willow
@dire spoke how do you get multi graphs like u posted on screen
mossy hazel
@solar willow There's a little + to the right of a lot of the tables, hitting that will "pin" it to the top I think
high mist
Ive hardly played sin at all Alacrity :/
solar willow
mine looks like this and can't figure out how to see the graphs you posted
mossy hazel
dire spoke
You have to know what you want to see, if you want buffs you gotta go to buff's tables
high mist
@gusty kestrel I will read the guide again but there are some things people have been saying here that I dont remember seeing in the guide at all
dire spoke
pandemic 
mossy hazel
@high mist Such as?
dire spoke
The guide is not there to tell you what ingame tooltips do
When TB says ... increased damage from poisons ... it should be clear that you don't want to rupture during its uptime
maybe read them aswell
high mist
For someone who is relatively new to the game, im still grasping that and I didnt know you werent supposed to do that. It seems this started off being gentle help now it feels like im being ridiculed by some tbh
solar willow
why can't i find surge of toxins
lost horizon
If you're trying to find it on logs, go to debuffs and 'cast by friendly'
dire spoke
I'm not saying you're dumb, I just recommand understanding information by putting effort in reading up details - asking to view a log is just a basic question that will not help you understanding the spec @high mist
you also didn't ask why to cast more Envenoms in TB π€·π»
solid nova
-Read the guide
-Apply common sense
-Develop questions from there
-Maybe sim some comparisons in between for gear and stat weights
-Ask questions after all the above is applied for more in depth details once basic knowledge is acquired
That's not being ridiculed, its the same basics every player should go over when learning a new class/spec.
high mist
In fairness, its not like ive come in here and just asked if my logs are fine first of all I know they are low and I also havent come in here without reading the guide at all
solar willow
is this opener how all opens should be?
mossy hazel
@solar willow Looks correct yea
mossy hazel
Oh yea, with shoulders
strange python
lots of u higher guys here are abit toxic, people come to ask something and u all spam them read the guide
solid nova
Because the guide covers it?
mossy hazel
Lol?
frozen pecan
it answers most of the questions that people ask here
strange python
maybe people want some human interaction
mossy hazel
Teaching people to understand it themself is much more useful than just giving them the answer with no understanding
strange python
and not to be told off to the guide link every single time, someone asks something here
doesnt help grow the community
solid nova
If asking people to use the resources available is toxic
You dont know what toxic means
solar willow
richard are your logs public?
drifting cloud
14k people online, lets grow the community π€
solid nova
Yes
high mist
Its also helpful to know youre doing things right
frozen pecan
don't think people are here to spoon feed information to newbies
solid nova
^
solar willow
can i have them so i do my own compares?
frozen pecan
that's what the guide is there for
drifting cloud
maybe if you saw how some people explined some things to people 20 times youd see why they got bored of it
solar willow
"serveral people are typing" MonkaS
hoary copper
Guide also cuts down on the same questions being asked every day. If you read the guide you probably dont have to ask the question thats been answered at your finger tips
high mist
Dont help in a rogue discord then Ryler to those people? Granted its annoying but people know what they are signing up to
dire spoke
maybe we just should add friendly smilie faces to our recommendations to not look toxic
solid nova
People joining should also join with the intention to use the pinned resources
And not expect to be spoon fed
Works more than 1 way
strange python
yeah every time i come around all i see is "read the guide" "learn to find it ur self"
frozen pecan
scroll up :>
solid nova
Asking people to use the resources available and then ask more developed question is not toxic
Its asking people to be self sufficient and show a want to learn
And not be told without question
hoary copper
Toph will be happy to answer all your basic questions covered in the guide in DMs. Also do logs for you.
frozen pecan
I got plenty of information out of this discord on top of the guide π€·
solar willow
@solid nova can i have your logs so i can do my own comparisons?
spare cloud
I've just watched a final fantasy ffxiv boss guide
I feel like an idiot playing wow now
lost horizon
I mean if a question is asked containing info covered in the guide.. 'check out the guide' is an appropriate response
solid nova
Yeah ill pm you
dire spoke
@strange python I'm sorry that my screenshots and paintings aren't enough besides understanding resource's information
hoary copper
The fights in Ffxiv are well scripted and visually pretty
strange python
@dire spoke nah u did a great job, was not refering to u
solid nova
these werent created as memes
They answer almost everything
And once you've read it, if you still dont understand
Thats when most people are happy to help
If you're not going to show any will to learn on your own then ask people to hold your hand
You're expecting too much
spare cloud
They are also insanely hard compared to wow fights
high mist
Richard I personally didnt expect to be spoonfed and I dont either
solid nova
Im not directly referring to you Milky
spare cloud
Wow fights are also scripted, but they have more random elements that is true
In ffxiv it's just way harder to pull off a fight well
it's insane
high mist
I was asking for guidance alongside reading the guide
spare cloud
they are way more difficult mechanics wise
solid nova
I was referring to Kalkoo
hoary copper
FFXIV are more timed than event based I feel like, where wow is liek "at 60% this happens"
brisk forge
Best way to be pro is to understand and play around in the game. You can learn by yourself tbh
drifting cloud
you havent played it tho have you
hoary copper
We should prob take it to offtopic before Don gets us @spare cloud
drifting cloud
I think overall consesus was that wow pve is still way harder
its just different in ff
frozen pecan
@high mist you got your answers aswell didn't you
trail heron
ffxiv is also 'at x%'
spare cloud
@high mist what do you need
the whole fight is scripted
but that applies for wow as well
wow just has more random elements
such as, random player gets debuff
in ffxiv it's do that or you die
trail heron
however, in ffxiv bosses, if you manage to cheese a massive hit of damage into the boss at 0.1% before x happens, x gets skipped
strange python
where can i find someone to press my keys for me in raid?
spare cloud
if you can't pull it off
trail heron
also, xiv has bossfights that can permanently, unrezzable, remove a player from the fight
frozen pecan
@strange python get a bot
hoary copper
world first in ffxiv go about as fast as wow I think, I remember the omegas taking forever because of mechanics
cursive hatch
Omega world first was within 24 hours. FF14 is a dance, WoW is reactionary
spare cloud
whereas in wow its not as easy because after 50 trys one person still might not get mechanic x
trail heron
actually, in xiv, as DPS, you end up even more being an asshole than in wow
spare cloud
and wipe you with it
cursive hatch
in ff14, half the time you can pre-move, and you just have to learn the 'dance' for the fight. You get a pattern down and just perform it generally
spare cloud
Yeh indeed
trail heron
in xiv, there are classes that are egoistic fucks that fire up all their buffs, shoot off 2 or 3 skills, get pasted by the enemy
high mist
Nothing Toph I think I got the help I needed from most although I now feel like I shouldnt play the spec at all instead of trying to improve
spare cloud
it's basically learning a pattern
trail heron
and then blame the healers for not healing them through 3x the damage that they have HP
frozen pecan
lol
solid nova
If you cant take constructive criticism, well
trail heron
oh, and if a healer isn't doing at least 50% the dps of a DPS class, they get kicked
spare cloud
I mean if you don't want to play the specc because of the other people playing it
thats a pretty shitty reason
hoary copper
I wish threat was still a thing, might make tanking actually a little challenge (Im told its easy)
frozen pecan
you made him quit guys π¦
keen inlet
@high mist in the game of rogues you git gud or you reroll DH
spare cloud
Don is already purple
solid nova
Or WW
trail heron
before the second expansion for ff14, there was a skill for healers named 'cleric stance'. healer gear had the 'mind' attribute which boosted healing, and their damage skills scaled off 'intelligence', just like damage casters
spare cloud
which means he has rerolled DH
keen inlet
the day I seriously play DH
primal tangle
If you want easy play afflic
frozen pecan
don purple? i've been absent for too long
trail heron
if a healer didn't have a 95% cleric stance uptime in that game, in 'endgame', you got a serious talking to by your raid leader
cursive hatch
thats because all healing cna be planned
keen inlet
is the day I unsubscribe from wow
delete all blizzard apps from my everything
remove hard drive and smash with hammer
toss all electronics in my house out the window
light pile on fire
solid nova
@keen inlet You told me mentioning the D word was a bannable offence. What is this blasphemy
hoary copper
Cleric stance was kinda fun, I like not having to switch back and forth (I played scholar) tho. When I went back I disliked the scholar healing. AST was more fun
spare cloud
I've just started ffxiv
it's really fun tbh
default dmg rotation is way more complex than in wow
trail heron
bruen, scholar also had a kinda lame mode tool
spare cloud
but in exchange you also have scripted fights
trail heron
you had eos/selene
cursive hatch
cleric stance was cancer, imo. I much prefer being able to dps while being able to react and heal if needed
trail heron
(a fairy pet that healed)
keen inlet
@spare cloud It slows down significantly around level 40+.
#off-topic, btw
trail heron
also, cleric stance killed off a cooldown skill for white mages
spare cloud
@keen inlet I'm over that
and I haven't noticed a decrease in leveling speed yet
Because I'm just spamming tower
high mist
I can take criticism, I also want to play the spec still. I just feel like some of the comments alongside the criticism arent what is needed
mossy hazel
Rogue has been my main always, and I really wanted to try out DH
Got out of the tutorial zone, and said nah, I'm done
spare cloud
because dh is boring af
You might press one button with 60 apm
but there is no thinking required
mossy hazel
Meanwhile, my SPriest buddy LOVES his DH. Lol
spare cloud
spare cloud
Zempai trying to say something for about 10 minutes
trail heron
i currently play outlaw, because for openworld, it feels FUN to me
keen inlet
@high mist I'll be the first to defend new folks online etc., but that said, you gotta have thick skin. Discord, Reddit, mmo-c, wherever you go you'll get help but you'll also get some sass.
That's part of online communities
primal tangle
Rogue discord is vanilla compared to the pally discord
keen inlet
It's all relative, obviously
solid nova
It's not even thick skin, just regular skin with the acceptance of constructive criticism when asking for help.
trail heron
why, are the pallies talking about when they got touched by priests, during their time as altar bois?
keen inlet
We try to keep the tox down...but razzing can and will happen
spare cloud
Other discords are insane compared to here
high mist
I never once complained about the criticism I got did I?
spare cloud
Ofc you're gonna get some banter going if you ask questions that are in the guide for example
solid nova
RH sets the example 
keen inlet
You've complained twice since I entered the conversation, lol
spare cloud
in other discords you'd be called a n**** and to k**
trail heron
the mage discord has turned into a BDO discord, pretty much
dire spoke
@high mist you have to spend time on something to understand it. You came here with logs and we could tell that you didn't understand basics - people told you what you should try and do - now it's an issue because you got directed to read and understand the stuff you're trying to do better ? I also told you that you did an okay-ish job on your buff/debuff uptimes but that there are mistakes while cooldowns
solid nova
Don't run before you can walk and then complain you fell over fam
Thats what hes trying to say
Zempai but effort into your logs
or 
dire spoke
spare cloud
frozen pecan
spare cloud
I wonder from which discord the "check the pins" one originates
high mist
Its not an issue Zempai. Richard im not complaining. Don Jose - I was pointing a couple of things out that I wouldnt have people do in a discord of my own granted its a public one
trail heron
also, we need a kpop emoji :p
spare cloud
Have you been to other class discords?
strange python
wasnt so calkm during fok-gate
frozen pecan
it used to be alot worse in here lol
strange python
im saving TB for the end of the fight for max dps
high mist
I am in other discords yes
spare cloud
Because I'm surprised you think this discord here is rude
I've literally seen people on other class discords being told to kill themselves and shit for asking questions like "analyze logs" or basic ones that are in the pins
cursive hatch
tbh, you got decent advice in here. In #outlaw I usually end up trolling people that ask things that are in the guide or tooltips pretty hard before telling them the answer.
hoary copper
I've seen people get kicked for questions in other discords so yea
high mist
I didnt say anyone was rude
mossy hazel
You literally said we were toxic...
trail heron
the mage discord doesn't even have spec channels, last i was in there
cursive hatch
toxic sin bois
high mist
That wasnt me proto
solid nova
Log review β
Guide recommendations β
Simulations β
Issues remaining are?
mossy hazel
Lol, what happened to the dude who said we were toxic? Come in, stir the pot and bop out?
solid nova
If you're expecting so mass in depth miracle out of a singular normal log
You're again expecting too much
high mist
I never once expected that
solid nova
What are you expecting?
dire spoke
π hello welcome and thank you for linking your logs, we will look into it in a moment - hold the line. β€
okay so, I'd highly recommend reading up some stuff π there are some issues with the start of the fight and the planning around mechanics, you can find some information here LINKTGUIDE ππ» feel free to come back with questions, and sorry if things are a bit overload on the beginning - it's normal β€ you can do it
high mist
I have what I came for, I also thanked Zempai and proto for the help initially
solid nova
Then the issue lies where?
mossy hazel
Holy hell, who's trolling?? Haha, I don't even know what's going on anymore
strange python
does it work if you go: your logs stink, you should go play monk β€ β€ β€
hoary copper
I want to go back to bed
cursive hatch
I want a guild
mossy hazel
^
high mist
Thanks to @gusty kestrel @dire spoke and @mossy hazel for the help anyway.
vapid moth
Yawn
spare cloud
Ban Xaethron please
keen inlet
@high mist If you'd like to hang out that's fine, but I'd suggest you stop antagonizing people and just let it drop.
Everybody else, let's move on, kthx
dire spoke
keen inlet
@dire spoke You get the Response of the Day trophy π for your automated Log Analysis response
I needed that laugh
cursive hatch
new topic: Why are sin bois inferior to outlaw bois?
solid nova
I'm already upset with Xaethron as he didnt think ToV was difficult
drifting cloud
need more emojis
vapid moth
Richard I've said many times I didn't do the previous raids
strange python
kick the outluls lol
keen inlet
@cursive hatch Because they're toxic
vapid moth
My opinions are frankly invalid regarding them
keen inlet
Outlaws are just lovable mavericks sent to drain the rogue swamp and KEEP PROMISES
vapid moth
But I wasnt talking bout heroic either
spare cloud
Can we discuss Xaethrons ban please?
cursive hatch
Its a favorite past time of mine to crush sin rogues with outlul memes on the meters
keen inlet
Sure, in #off-topic
trail heron
actually, outlaw players aren't toxic. if anyone is toxic, its SIN. because they poison.
solid nova
Heroic doesnt count
vapid moth
I didn't know bashing on people for no reason was allowed now
spare cloud
also offtopic is busy with kpop atm
solid nova
@vapid moth Promise me π
I was actually meant to ask you, did you have any luck with progression raids?
As you were doing some last week?
high mist
@keen inlet im not going anywhere, I had my reasons for saying what was said but im not going to continue it as requested.
vapid moth
Nah. Didn't do it this week cause a 4th of the guild was busy
primal tangle
I pretend shadowstepping takes more effort than it actually does
vapid moth
Agreed. We should do mythic tonight though
primal tangle
So therefore i cant kill adds
solid nova
I deliberately move so someone else gets it
cursive hatch
freedom isn't a thing
solid nova
My shadowstep is important for me
cursive hatch
its bop
solid nova
Just have a warrior intervene it
cursive hatch
call all the bops
I actually forget all the abilities pallies have, they never get used that I can see
mossy hazel
My shadowstep mouseover macro is broken and I havne't bothered to fix it, so I almost never use it... Can I borrow that "Bad rogue" title please
cursive hatch
if you want to have more fun on Vari, play outlul and grapple hook the knock backs
solid nova
We have DHs and warriors to take them all
Literal afk boss for me
PB damage for adds
dire spoke
I got necrotic a split second before ShStep and called bop in my first trial raid
so yeah gg
vapid moth
How do you get people that don't focus too much on their dps to actually start giving a shit without seeming like an asshole
mossy hazel
Lmao
frozen pecan
tell them git gud or l2p
solid nova
Personally if its a guildy, I'd just go direct with it
vapid moth
I could be an asshole about it and say "get gud fucker" but then they don't listen
keen inlet
@vapid moth You bench them or boot them, unfortunately
cursive hatch
parses don't matter if the boss doesn't die
mossy hazel
I'd actually like to know the same thing, but with people who actually think they're doing REALLY well
cursive hatch
if they can't understand that, they get the boot
keen inlet
In my experience ppl don't step up their game if they don't have to
vapid moth
Sadly I don't have any power
keen inlet
and they don't have to if they're carried
solid nova
If you threaten with the bench
Watch how fast they shape up
Its a magic word
Bench
dire spoke
mossy hazel
I'm sorry I'll fix it!
vapid moth
700k dps even on progression fights is just lame
cursive hatch
idk, past guilds we fought FOR the bench
solid nova
700k?
primal tangle
I wouldnt mind a bench
solid nova
I hope we're talking about a tank
cursive hatch
700k? I can probably auto attack for more
steep obsidian
guilds progging this late most likely dont even have a bench
vapid moth
Sadly no. You didn't see the hounds logs?
cursive hatch
thats concerning
solid nova
Link
steep obsidian
or much of one
vapid moth
Mightve been exaggerating but hold on
dire spoke
you mean the 6 healers hounds log?
cursive hatch
6 heal hounds?! Do you afk for a few minutes and then play for a bit while they afk?
solid nova
For your own safety, dont link that log @vapid moth
vapid moth
This was the first kill. 3 people under 1 mill
vapid moth
What's gonna happen? Toph gonna say something
drifting cloud
well when you progress on dogs
vapid moth
O OK.das not good
frozen pecan
lol
vapid moth
If we kill it again tonight we will see
cursive hatch
wait, is this heroic or mythic?
vapid moth
We had 5 for garothi
frozen pecan
still 1/11?
cursive hatch
I guess I forget how much dps is required to get a kill. Its not much now that I think about it
the worse part about hounds progression, was the debuff bugs on the first week
vapid moth
I won't leave without at least trying to change some shit
cursive hatch
like tanks both getting the same debuff
keen inlet
@steep obsidian replying late but that's a v. true statement, at this point most guilds are just trying to get enough online to pull
solid nova
Tis true
frozen pecan
Poggers 2/11
drifting cloud
frozen pecan
wow mind = blown
dire spoke
swear on your moms wanker
solid nova
Don't give me that riff raff talk or it'll be fisty cuffs at the polo club @dire spoke
dire spoke
spare cloud
keen inlet
It's hard to judge, people are overgeared at this point but there's no dps check, and attendance is lower, people want moer carries/alts
steep obsidian
hokay
solid nova
The hardest part about raiding now is having 20 raiders online 
keen inlet
I think taking only the raw fight into account and not other factors, yeah, it's much easier
from what I've seen.
No personal experience, obv.
devout jolt
this ^ @solid nova
steep obsidian
starting to wonder if i should actually look for a good bfa guilds but being a casual idiot has a lot of bonuses
devout jolt
lost half our team at imonar
steep obsidian
maybe ill just do m+ and casual heroic
keen inlet
I'm starting to wonder if I should remain a despot when I am likely to ragequit BFA due to all the changes 
and bad story
steep obsidian
its boring when you clear heroic first week though and dont really have a goal
solid nova
@keen inlet You cant quit when you've just started!
devout jolt
Looks like I will see this expansion out at 5/11
cursive hatch
I haven't killed Argus yet, but I have 500 pulls on the boss
steep obsidian
recruiting is a shity job
vapid moth
Hmmm
steep obsidian
im never doing that crap again
spare cloud
I would love to recruit
solid nova
Any officer role
steep obsidian
dealing with drama as a raid leader/gm is even worse
solid nova
Is horrific
keen inlet
game
job
should neveroverlap if you're not getting paid
supple hearth
Toph for despot
spare cloud
What
dire spoke
What
primal tangle
What
steep obsidian
i get why some raid leaders are more then a little nutty
solid nova
Toph despot would ban
vapid moth
Lol xaethron for despot
solid nova
Bad idea
vapid moth
Cause I'd look good in purple
keen inlet
My GM asked me to be recruitment officer
I did that back in cata
said nooooooooooooooo way
negatory
keen inlet
yesn't
supple hearth
Nominating yourself rarely works u gotta pay someone else to nom u
steep obsidian
recruitment has to be a full guild effort nowadays
solid nova
Recruiting and similar officer roles like attendance spreadsheets etc
Is a massive chore
vapid moth
Toph I'll pay you to nominate me
steep obsidian
no way one person can keep up
solid nova
And burns you out imo
cursive hatch
Ive been a healing officer before, but recruiting takes far too much time
keen inlet
@spare cloud if your first action would be discussing a ban in any channel otehr than off-topic
spare cloud
When did I pay you? @supple hearth
drifting cloud
we have 23 people
keen inlet
then it's time for you to πͺ
supple hearth
Last nigh
drifting cloud
you just need reliable