assassination

[wise frigate]

Generally Poison is easier to gear for. Bleed is very gear dependent.

[elder oracle]

for sure man I appreciate it!\

[fervent beacon]

@elder oracle There aren't much to get used to per say as there are bit of changes regarding to sin with haste affecting the tick rate, loss of KB, etc.

So play whatever you feel like to and once the prepatch get release, that when all the changes will takes affect, usually a month before expan release.

[civic palm]

Losing Kingsbane doesn't actually change anything though, does it? What did it do to modify your priorities/rotation? Clip Envenom? Sure.

[stark heart]

Maybe removes button that you have to play around

[fiery nest]

kb does damage :/

[vapid moth]

It's a button

Without kb you could very well go through a whole boss fight clicking only 5 things

Also it's a different animation lol. Rogue is already bland as hell

[stark heart]

Like you can see animations in melee

[vapid moth]

If you're a monk you can 😔

[viscid helm]

At least we will have classic next year

[zealous dew]

@vapid moth what is full of lies ?

[cloud dune]

I stopped maining rogue because of how bland they are 😦

[wraith edge]

!help

[chrome tusk]

Commands Plugin Commands

!enchants

--

!help

--

!outlawguide

--

!relics

--

!rtb

--

!simc

--

!singuide

--

!subguide

--

!trinkets

--

!simc, !outlawguide, !singuide, !subguide, !enchants, !relics, !trinkets

[viscid helm]

I guess you wont be playing BFA then

[wraith edge]

!singuide

[chrome tusk]

Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[cloud dune]

Probably not. Or just stick to pvp.

[faint canopy]

I'm thinking of maining my sin rogue again, what are the hot classes/specs now?

[zealous dew]

not rogue 😃

[civic palm]

Fire mage :3

Hot on LIVE or BETA anyway?

[faint canopy]

LOL

Live

[zealous dew]

DH/monk

[civic palm]

Yeah especially for M+

Moonkin?

[zealous dew]

boring af

[civic palm]

I mean sure but the DMG is FIRE.

[zealous dew]

😄

[faint canopy]

We're bad at beta too? 💔

[civic palm]

Nah

We're fine, people just freakin over changes.

We're technically better on BETA than on LIVE but a little more boring due to the loss of things.

[faint canopy]

And how 'bout PvP? (beta and live)

[civic palm]

No idea, PVP was ass this expansion.

[faint canopy]

True

[stark heart]

Technically better

[civic palm]

Numbers and Rankings > _>" More boring to play might lead people to fall asleep though; that's a damage loss.

We're one of the least "ruined" specs.

[stark heart]

Numbers on beta mean nothing

[civic palm]

Other people losing their fucking mind s.

[stark heart]

So far

[civic palm]

and Druids just want something different but got nothing so far.

We got a "better" Poison Bomb, Crimson Tempest that hasn't been ruined yet.

👌

[fervent beacon]

Fuck druids

I'm probably going to switch to MM hunter, because my guild need more range.

[civic palm]

Sure

Doing a Mage now for the same reason.

[stark heart]

Mage

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Hunter is like, 75.

TIME FOR SURV.

[stark heart]

I mean mage is kewl

Fire is a blast

[civic palm]

Frost is kewl sure

[stark heart]

GS one yeah, tv is quite boring

[civic palm]

EU MDI tomorrow morning ye?

today technically, I guess

[viscid helm]

[stark heart]

I'd watch mdi purely because of sloot commentating

Gameplay itself is not worth watching

[steep obsidian]

people were complainin about his casting last mdi apparently :\

can't make everyone happy

i reckon he does a good job at least he understands whats going on most of the time in the instance

and the puns are popular

[stark heart]

He is good entertainer

[fast anvil]

What up everyone i came here to ask if theres such thing as having to much mastery for our spec? is there a cap that it just doesnt matter to go above?

[fervent beacon]

there's no cap, just follow sim but mast will ideally be #1 if you're using mantle.

[fast anvil]

21 crit, 9 haste, 200% mastery, 14 vers with shoulders, wrists only 3/4 piece currently

[zealous dew]

by the look of it dump some vers and haste for crit

[fast anvil]

May i ask why the haste?

[viscid helm]

Sim

Sim

Sim

[zealous dew]

haste only buffs energy regen and melee swings

[fast anvil]

DESTABBER
1,443,045 DPS sim

[zealous dew]

yep, he means stat weights

[fast anvil]

at 949 ilvl not really sure where i should be at currently only have 67 in wep as well

[zealous dew]

keep working on gear, follow the weights, get 4 set

[fast anvil]

So if i was able to dump some vers and get some crit and haste i should still be set if i have my mastery that high?

[zealous dew]

there's no cap on stats

mastery is awesome for both st/aoe

versa pulls out in aoe

[fast anvil]

Alright cool thanks for the help and answering my questions 😃

[zealous dew]

but again outside mantle window 20 crit is so low that you will never get 3-4 cp mutilates

[fast anvil]

@zealous dew where should the crit be sitting? like 30-35%?

[zealous dew]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/stats

use this tool

will give you the values you need to focus on

[fast anvil]

Alright will do only knew that it could sim my dps since wowprogress isnt updating it for me or any of my information besides ilvl

[zealous dew]

wowprogress sims are bad

use raidbot

generate your own weights today, get a better item following the weights, rerun your sims, repeat

[jovial kite]

guys

Daily reminder that trials deserve loot too

[keen yoke]

Especially when they die in phase 1.

[steep obsidian]

same

the thing i love the most are people who are completely clueless commenting about how loot systems that mythic raiders use are bad

I only do LFR BUT!

[shrewd night]

[safe matrix]

[steep obsidian]

[dire spoke]

[atomic grotto]

heya boys

anyone who has beta access on right now?

[turbid harbor]

yes

[atomic grotto]

may i ask with what talents did u play around as sin rogue?

😛

i got access yesterday and i played around a bit

so i want chat about it a bit 😛

[solid nova]

Sticky tongue emojis are the most cringe thing

[atomic grotto]

indee

d

♿

[turbid harbor]

i didn't play much sin because it feels horrible at 110 with green gear imo

[atomic grotto]

well yeap im just trying to see how the spec "feels"

[warm parcel]

Imagine a lvl 10 spec

Then add

Hasted bleeds

And boom

[safe matrix]

I mean its basically the same

but worse

[solid nova]

Well if you're wanting to get a feel for the spec, just carry on playing

[safe matrix]

like all classes

[solid nova]

Unless you're wanting specifics 🤷🏼

[atomic grotto]

I Wanted to know how other people feel about the spec

and what was their experience

[solid nova]

Same as other classes and specs

Clunky and pruned

[turbid harbor]

don't play exsanguinate

that's my experience

[safe matrix]

It hasn't experienced major changes, but it lost a lot of the artifact traits that smoothed it out

so its kinda similar

just less refined

[turbid harbor]

also find lots of targets and press crimson tempest as often as you can

[solid nova]

Even less APM 😂

[warm parcel]

Its boring

Really dull

And slow

[solid nova]

I didnt think it could get slower

[warm parcel]

And feels meaningless

[solid nova]

^^^^

[warm parcel]

But a positive is it works

Its not a shitshow like legion OL

Or demo

[atomic grotto]

did u try OL on beta?

[safe matrix]

have you tried asking in the outlul channel?

[warm parcel]

Thats the same as is now

Just slower yet again

Had some qol fixes like opportunity not overcapping

[solid nova]

BFA in a nutshell: Shits the same with less buttons and a slower combat pace

The end

[warm parcel]

P much.
Unless your spec was reworkd

[solid nova]

With less buttons and a slower combat space, then everyones going to be a good player right?

Because, easier?

[shrewd night]

Go demo or go home

BFA

Wooo

[turbid harbor]

i think sub has some interesting stuff to look at

but sin is too slow now

[safe matrix]

basically blizzard decided to really make about 5 specs feel really good, then said to the rest "fuck it"

[atomic grotto]

@safe matrix I tried to ask yesterday but no one answered

[safe matrix]

tbh depends when you ask it

#deadchannel

[solid nova]

No one has to answer 😄

[shrewd night]

Nobody plays outlaw

So uh

[solid nova]

That too

[safe matrix]

sub is too janky I think

[atomic grotto]

who said that they have to answer?

[safe matrix]

its prety easy to fix the problems with it though

[solid nova]

Well you're saying no one answered you?

No one has to

[safe matrix]

also, maybe the people who are there at the time don't have beta access

[atomic grotto]

i dont really get the point of ur answer richard

if u dont wanna anwer

dont

[shrewd night]

[atomic grotto]

stop giving clever"ish" answers

[gaunt moat]

Richard why so agrresive so early

[solid nova]

Yikes

[shrewd night]

Can someone else than richard answer pls

double yikes

[gaunt moat]

What was the question?

[atomic grotto]

how does rogue specs feel on beta

mostly

[shrewd night]

This was specific to OL

[atomic grotto]

and how people played around

[shrewd night]

This aint OL channel

reeeeeeee

[atomic grotto]

with the class

[solid nova]

People didnt answer my OL question in Sin

Stop being cleverish

[atomic grotto]

if we had a bfa channel i would ask there

[gaunt moat]

Feel is subjective.
Dunno how to answer it.

[atomic grotto]

yeap we cant really talk about numbers right now

or i cant

[turbid harbor]

i like beta outlaw

[solid nova]

Feelycraft doesnt have numbers

[safe matrix]

I mean, numbers are subject to change

[dire spoke]

makes sense

[shrewd night]

What about those sinister strike buffs tho 😛

[safe matrix]

its also hard to say how specs feel

given that they aren't complete

hell, sub doesn't even have our final talent confirmed yet

we don't know azerite

[atomic grotto]

ofc

but i can still ask for other people's opinions about the clas

class*

[safe matrix]

its a better question in a couple months when things get hammered out

[turbid harbor]

https://gyazo.com/272e75df70cff3a47f625e875f9f2abe

check that sick melee dmg

[viscid helm]

Lol not complete

Wtf are u on about

[zealous dew]

that poison bomb!

[turbid harbor]

we auto attack rogues now boys

[viscid helm]

They are complete, expecting changes is delusional

[safe matrix]

I mean, they are still subject to change scalings

[turbid harbor]

i think that's pretty decent bomb for 2mins on a dummy

[dire spoke]

white damage matters again ❤

[turbid harbor]

bomb does 0 dmg on beta

[safe matrix]

sin could be a dot based class if haste scales really well, or if mastery scales super hard again it could be envenom heavy

[turbid harbor]

mastery scales everything now

[atomic grotto]

pb 🤢

[safe matrix]

some builds are there yeah, but they could be unviable due to numbers

[turbid harbor]

apart from melee 😄

[shrewd night]

PB is the greatest thing to ever be granted to rogues 😛

[atomic grotto]

i fucking hate it

[zealous dew]

either you love it or you hate it

[safe matrix]

I view it like titanforging

its super nice, when it goes well for me

😄

[shrewd night]

Press more buttons

effort = reward yaknow

[zealous dew]

can't press buttons if you have no energy

[atomic grotto]

pb =/=effort

[turbid harbor]

garrote has same dmg/tick as rupture on beta

[atomic grotto]

so back to the beta question

what do u think

about blindside

[shrewd night]

isnt that OL?

[safe matrix]

🤷

[warm parcel]

No

[turbid harbor]

dummy doesn't lose hp so idk 😄

[warm parcel]

Exe talent

[shrewd night]

Oh right

They renamed the other thing

Dispatch

[warm parcel]

Dispatch feelsbad with other talents, is purely st and sucks

And has the possibility to ruin resources

[turbid harbor]

mp and ep are both pretty shitty after changes

might be the least shit of 3 options on patchwerk depending on tuning

[warm parcel]

Mp is boring

Ep still can have gameplay

[turbid harbor]

4s on ep makes clipping way harder

[warm parcel]

Dispatch just undermines other talents

Well no env clip

Mut clip now

[safe matrix]

EP is probably better later in the expac though

when you can get more crit

and spam finishers

[viscid helm]

Looks shit like the rest of BFA

[jovial kite]

Yeah

Worse than classic

[viscid helm]

Its funny how these BFA qna are supposed to hype up the expansion

And they have the exact opposite effect

[shrewd night]

🎸

[solid nova]

Come and have a chat about our new and exciting expansion

leave with confirmed crippling depression

[atomic grotto]

I see

[solid nova]

http://gph.is/2aQ0EOY

[jagged elk]

hey guys!

which legendaries do you recommend using for mythic+?

especially this week on teeming mob grps

[shrewd night]

If you are asking for current gear you do have - Sim yourself
If you are asking about gear you are looking to get - Golg and insert trinket here

[safe matrix]

mantle/bracers for m+

[jagged elk]

what about dreadlords?

[shrewd night]

Sucks dick

[solid nova]

Cloak is shit

For sin

[shrewd night]

@gusty kestrel shuddup, its early mkay

[solid nova]

@shrewd night You have 30mins till mcdonalds breakfast is over

Get it in you

[shrewd night]

Means breakfast rush is over in 30 minutes and I can have my first break

[solid nova]

My food hasnt arrived yet

Getting breakfast delivered to work goml

[slow mountain]

do vanish breaks the chains on m argus?

[turbid harbor]

yes

[slow mountain]

aight, ty

[north basin]

is there any sin rogues at MDI? or all subs

[viscid helm]

Better question is if there are any rogues at all

When Monk exists

[solid nova]

I thought MDI was locked to blood dks, monks and locks?

With the occasional dh and hunter friends tagging along

[viscid helm]

Exactly

[solid nova]

Cant wait for BFA MDI

Fast paced action

Sign me up

[viscid helm]

[strange python]

Lol

[dire spoke]

sync GCDs will flow into rating, like sync tower jump

have to play to a given soundtrack and match the beat

[vestal wren]

rythem hero - wow edition

[prisma gull]

Play it with your rock band kit,

[vestal wren]

sounds good to me

[jovial kite]

in bfa specs so simple you can literally play with guitar hero controller

[vestal wren]

don't conclude from assasination to all specs

[jovial kite]

but i just did

[safe matrix]

I mean cmon now, you can't put any spec onto a guitar hero controller

I need atleast 7 keys to bind jump to

Now if you said rockband on the other hand

That's believable

[prisma gull]

The rockband guitar has 10 fret buttons iirc, more than enough lol

[vestal wren]

if it wouldnt cripple your movement you could make an osu-like rotation helper addon

[marble hemlock]

thats counter to what blizz wants though, they want this to be about good decisionmaking, not quick reactions

so this will eventually become chess

[prisma gull]

Next expansion Will feature turn based combat. More haste=faster turn cd. Like final fantasy

[strange python]

lol

[marble hemlock]

id actually be into that

turnbased rpgs have always been the best ones :p

[shrewd night]

@strange python lol

[strange python]

@shrewd night kill argus yet man?

Shit wrong channel

[shrewd night]

lol

[solid nova]

Just a gentleman out for his daily dose of bantz

[shrewd night]

Best sub resource that ever was

According to wowhead

[solid nova]

I'd believe it more if it was on Icy Veins tbh

[viscid helm]

I thought making 2nd accounts after perma ban was not allowed

Guess i was wrong

[shrewd night]

Who has been permd?

[vapid moth]

@zealous dew wow tokens aren't 135k

...

[shrewd night]

Nooooooo

They arent!?

[high mist]

I genuinely think my poison bombs are broken in assa, i literally didnt get one in about 100m worth of testing

100m damage

[vapid moth]

Lol

That's normal

[high mist]

its stupid because my gear isn't high enough atm (still got an 875 relic in assa) so i need them to carry me lol

[solid nova]

@vapid moth Hello, I suggest clicking the link and not blindly reading from the thumbnail, thank you.

[vapid moth]

Reading what?

[solid nova]

135k token price

Please

You hurt my brain

[vapid moth]

Oh

[solid nova]

Click link, then read price

You're just looking at the thumbnail

[shrewd night]

You mean thumbnails are

gasp

CLICKBAIT?

[solid nova]

Whaaaat ?

😱

[vapid moth]

Oh I see

[solid nova]

Cmon Xaerthron, grab a coffee fam

[vapid moth]

@zealous dew my bad fam

[dire spoke]

cheers fam 💪🏻 ❤

[zealous dew]

😄

no worries

[median notch]

so Venom Rush in bfa is useless under 30% enemy health if you play blindside?

[steep obsidian]

do you energy cap with it specced?

i havent even tested it

[viscid helm]

How would u energy cap with it

[steep obsidian]

because it costs less energy then mutilate?

i dunno just rying to understand what he was trying to say

[viscid helm]

I think what hes asking is IF VR only affects Muti

Making it dead talent at 30%

[median notch]

idd

[steep obsidian]

oh

derrr

[viscid helm]

When u no longer muti

[steep obsidian]

yeah good point

reading tooltips is hard

[viscid helm]

Just spec blindside and see if VR tooltip changes

[median notch]

i am nothing changed

[viscid helm]

Not surprised

[steep obsidian]

the tooltip says poisioned though

[viscid helm]

BFA

[steep obsidian]

on poisioned target

[viscid helm]

Yeh but doesnt it say Muti

I dont remember

[steep obsidian]

yeah muti not mentioned

[viscid helm]

When you mutilate a poisoned target

Ohh

[steep obsidian]

but the tooltip wouldnt change

if it was only against poisoned target

[steep obsidian]

just need to find a sub 30% health target to test on beta to see if it affects blindside if no one else knows

[median notch]

i can test it with free blindside procs too but no idea how to track energy atm even watching at energy bar seems like not even mutilate is refunding 5 energy

[viscid helm]

From what i hear, its a dead combo

[steep obsidian]

yeah

[viscid helm]

Only affects muti

[steep obsidian]

they normally try and avoid trap specs like that nowadays

[viscid helm]

BFA just looks better and better everyday

[jovial kite]

I mean if mythic raiders are regarded as a subset and their feedback isnt listened to

Its not a game for me

And looking at the design philosophy and the current way the devs are making the game im 100% sure bfa will be my last expansion

[median notch]

i really wanna see crimson tempest with exsanguinate in m+ if it can do some nice burst aoe

[steep obsidian]

def doesnt reduce the energy of the execute blindside from what i can tell

[viscid helm]

Burst aoe with exsang?

[median notch]

oh yeah it is on one target nice dreams

i make

[steep obsidian]

just bring back legion beta blood sweat

aoe rupture ftw

[zealous dew]

ded cennel today as well

-3h to go home

[midnight latch]

hello ded spec I am dad

[solid nova]

-1hr till home. Sausage and bacon baguette and a mcdonalds down.

It's a slow day

[jovial kite]

im goin over for my friends for a lil beer and sauna

4 days off work

[solid nova]

4 days off, beer and sauna

Swap?

[jovial kite]

no

I dun want no baguette pierre

[solid nova]

I want 4 days off though

[jovial kite]

I would give if i could

[solid nova]

❤

[shrewd night]

15 minutes before I go home

ayyyy

[viscid helm]

just got home

now its 4 work days for the next 2 weeks

[hoary copper]

8 more hours till I go home

[cold spoke]

im home and im not gonna leave it

[solid nova]

The dream

1 hour till i finish, 1 hour drive home then i can hibernate

[viscid helm]

Hayde

[cold spoke]

any good fist weapons mog? 😄

[jovial kite]

@gusty kestrel monday

every week monday from now on

[viscid helm]

@cold spoke ToT25hc

Naya

[cold spoke]

the fan thingie or

[midnight latch]

farming transmog?

[viscid helm]

https://puu.sh/Abp4J/df44abcecd.jpg

[lethal heart]

these are nice

👌

[cursive hatch]

Have any of you toxic bois played around on beta? Does PB still feel like shit? Is CT the way to go? Can I find out on the next episode of Dragon Ball Z?

[solid nova]

PB is pure ST, CT for dungeons is strong

Regardless, feels underwhelming

[viscid helm]

Still waiting for CT nerf

[solid nova]

Afk auto attack simulator

[viscid helm]

i mean what spec isnt

[cursive hatch]

I played around with CT, but what about the 90 tier? Exsang worth it or just going venom rush?

[viscid helm]

ye hold on lemme dig up the sims

ohh wait

[cursive hatch]

Also that PB thing, is that a bug or just a shitty tooltip not showing on wowhead? I didn't look at it closely on beta

[viscid helm]

what thing

[cursive hatch]

Single target

the tooltip is the same as live, just with updated percents

implying it creates the pool and is all targets

[viscid helm]

yes well its the only ST option on the row

you wouldnt use CT in ST

its still an AoE talent

just offers the best ST on the row

[cursive hatch]

Okay, making sure. Richard said 'PB is pure ST' implying it doesn't do aoe at all

[solid nova]

A bit too literate, CT is too busted not to be using for dungeons etc

My bad homie

But as Flowi said, it offers the most ST atm

[cursive hatch]

Ye makes sense

CT did a good bit of ST even though its an aoe ability, and by a good bit I mean more than some other classes level 100 talents that do like 3% damage because loltuning

[wide badge]

sin seems pretty shitty on beta

[vernal adder]

game seems pretty shitty on beta

[zealous dew]

beta seems pretty shitty on beta

[wide badge]

meh

[zealous dew]

good for me I suppose, getting old, a 10 APM class seems good for me 😃

[sullen mountain]

did you guys like how in the qa ion said how rogues have a high apm

i got a good kick out of that

i suppose 2/3 specs do but still

[viscid helm]

I liked when he said WoW is fast paced game

so were slowing it down for you guys

with GCD

[cursive hatch]

Yeah, making shit feel awkward is the wrong way to go. If anything, they should have done it the other way around nad just put specific things on the GCD first

I mean, I can go play FF14 if I want a slower gcd that still feels good. Their cds are off the gcd still 🤔

[sullen mountain]

to be fair assa in beta doesnt feel that bad

vendetta and vanish the only cds i have with the build im doing

better than another cool down 🤔

exsang might be good for questing hmm

😠

yeah

probably is a lot

just play poison bomb Kappa

[dire spoke]

ActuallyNoKappa

[cursive hatch]

but exsang + CT!

[sullen mountain]

whats ct

[cursive hatch]

crimson tempest

[sullen mountain]

o

did they increase poison bomb proc rate?

[cursive hatch]

yes

its 4% per CP instead of 2.5% per cp on live

[sullen mountain]

ok i thought so

it was proccing like at least once per mob

sometimes twice if it was still alive

how do you get legendaries in beta

[fast nacelle]

good question

[cursive hatch]

you probably dont

[sullen mountain]

there may be a vendor

horde in bfa

[keen inlet]

leggos cap at 116

So there's not much point in playing with them

[calm grail]

Their legendary effects are muted at 116 but apparently they are right below normal dungeon gear.

Still good stat sticks.

[steep obsidian]

i noticed the fok cloak double stacks with the hidden blades talent when i tested it it was hitting stupid hard, might be sorta fun in the pre patch and for the first couple levels

[flint pelican]

How competitive are blindside and toxic blade/exsanguinate looking? I’m really not trying to have the entire rotation just be “maintain dots, envenom at 4+.”

How’d it perform?

[steep obsidian]

someone brought up a decent point before that venom rush doesnt work with blindside at all

i hope shit like that gets fixed will be dumb if it makes it live

i guess you probably wouldnt go that but trap talents are dumb

yeah that one might get a redesign seems underwhelming

[fiery nest]

Trap talents aren't gay

[flint pelican]

I’m just keeping my fingers crossed blindside/exsanguinate is a viable option

I’d strangle a puppy to get 400% exsanguinate back

[steep obsidian]

haste effectling bleeds wouldnt be surprised if bleed build ends up really strong

hopefully be easier to gear for

although we did play xsang in very early en for a few weeks

[flint pelican]

Didn’t last long though.

It was shortsighted to nerf it from 400% because it was too strong in the prepatch that no one cared about. Even at 400% it would have been outpaced by AP in nighthold and at least would have given some viable options for the rest of legion.

[turbid harbor]

400% exsang forces you to fish for bota

and is aids gameplay

[flint pelican]

Bota is gone

Also having options is better than not you could always opt out of it

[steep obsidian]

gonna miss all the little cool things from the weapon traits that you take for granted

[flint pelican]

Ultimately there were about a dozen better ways to fix what was an otherwise exciting and unique ability that didn’t involve completely gutting it

[steep obsidian]

reduced cloak and sprint cd

evasion with step

dr with crimson vial

all gone 😦

all that stuff so useful in m+

[flint pelican]

Those types of things will almost certainly show up on Azerite gear

[steep obsidian]

maybe

its funny how you think that shit like step with evasion is dumb as hell but then the mythic dungeons have a bunch of mechs you can block with evasion so you realise how powerful it is

[flint pelican]

My biggest concern is that currently kingsbane is the only “hook” to our rotation and that’s gone without anything yet revealed to replace it. If exsanguinate is optimal or at least competitive that issue is resolved, however if our only viable build winds up being something like mp/ep and venom rush things are going to be really stale.

[steep obsidian]

hopefully they dont screw up talent balancing yah

actually changing per encounter or raid comp might be more interesting then just using a cookie cutter build the whole run

[flint pelican]

While I would love to have actual options with talents, I can live with a single build as long as that build at least offers compelling gameplay. Where I don’t want to be is where outlaw was before the slice and dice changes having only one build and having that one build play like shit.

[turbid harbor]

ya but you said you wanted it at 400% during legion

bota not being in bfa has nothing to do with that

[keen inlet]

I love having stuff taken away and then re-sold to me as an exciting new feature 😄

[steep obsidian]

haha yeah that is always a bit funny

i got all this cool shit that works well and is fun

oh here grind it all out again

[sullen mountain]

gonna make rogues a lot less durable in arena

thats for sure

[lean hill]

That's how EA works with sports games. I used to play a lot of NHL, one year it would be super easy to score and people would complain. The next year it is now harder to score and people complain. Then they make it easier to score and the cycle continues forever

[fervent beacon]

it's like they don't play hockey at all.

[lean hill]

Well, the people who want online sports games to play like real sports are all fucked because it's a video game, not the real shit. That's a whole other conversation though

The main idea of selling us old shit and acting like it's new is all over, hard to believe it keeps being a more prevalent theme

I'd like to say we are all smarter than that but hey we keep buying the games

[fleet siren]

Hello guys! i want your opinion on something

atm i do mythic agra with my guild and i use shoulders + wrists.... the line ups on my vendeta are not so optimal atm

and the fight is close on berserk timer...

is it wise to switch to boots?

boots + bracers

[turbid harbor]

yes

[shrewd notch]

hm, i use shoulders/wrists and it's felt alright to me so far. vendetta comes back a few seconds before we transition. haven't thought to use boots, would be interesting to see

[steep obsidian]

no reason not to its actually sorta nice to not be tethered as much to your vanish

although you can sim it if your gear is crit heavy you might be surprised that its better

even signficantly

[fleet siren]

i will have 40% crit

along with shadow singed fang

[steep obsidian]

thats fair bit more then me and the sims are very close for me

although i guess it depends on what other talents you take, you might be surprised how good ep is or other talent builds are

[fleet siren]

i actually sim 500k higher like this

how do i use vanish without shoulders?

for full rapture?

[lone junco]

https://giphy.com/gifs/weird-30-rock-death-brjQAYiFPBpWE

[dense quest]

rapture or carrot depending on talents

[zealous dew]

carrot 😄

[rotund zinc]

Can anyone give me the Netherlight weights for the addon Crucible Weights?

[calm grail]

If you are playing poison build and it has the word master in it, its pretty good.

[steep obsidian]

its pretty easy to sim traits using the relic compare option on raidbots

[safe matrix]

^

[sharp viper]

!relics

[chrome tusk]

List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

gray_hounds relic sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=0

[sharp viper]

@rotund zinc there you go, herodamage.com has a relics subsection where there are also crucible weights strings included

[rotund zinc]

Thanks guys, appreciate it!

[spare cloud]

You shouldn't only rely on those weights though

Simming is always the save option when it comes to a damage increase

[vapid moth]

not Mass Malch Mos? to the trash it goes

[spare cloud]

Maybe thats why you're a grey logger

because you don't have relics in your weapons

[vapid moth]

Ironic

Someone's still hurt

[safe matrix]

Is this your cry for help xae?

It's okay

[marble hemlock]

pk > mass

[vapid moth]

I cry for many things. But not for help 😢

And fuck pk lol

[calm spear]

never played rogue so noob question....whats the minimum energy you should have for assassination spec? I feel like I'm button mashing so I never have energy.

[vapid moth]

minimum amount?

[calm spear]

so if you have 100 energy, should you keep 20 or 30 and never drop below that or what

[hoary copper]

No such thing for us, except when you want to pool a bit for KB

[calm spear]

ok...i always feel energy starved and dps numbers just feel low so maybe my rotation is wrong then

[vapid moth]

post a log or armory or a character screenshot with your armor and talents

[hoary copper]

did you read the guide?

!singuide

[chrome tusk]

Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[hoary copper]

good bot

[calm spear]

Yes, I never prepot so maybe that is part of the issue

[hoary copper]

pots are a small part if you're doing low dps. Post a log or armory and it may help

[spare cloud]

Read the guide first make sure you are able to pull the playstyle off consistenly

If you don't understand anything you find in there feel free to ask

[calm spear]

I can outlaw good but I just cant seem to get assassination down https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/azjolnerub/janx

[spare cloud]

If you feel you are doing everything and and still have questions, post some logs here and you'll get some help

Assasination is very slow compared to outlaw

especially if you don't have the new 4pc

[hoary copper]

27% haste,....sin doenst like haste

oh you logged out as outlaw

[calm spear]

no i logged out as ass

[hoary copper]

armory shows outlaw for me, anyone else?

[lean hill]

Says sin rogue but outlaw talents are displayed

[spare cloud]

Armory is bugged

[hoary copper]

small indie company

[spare cloud]

Anyways, don't really bother with optimizing gear rn because from what I see you are not at the point where it matters

You should first get the basics of the class down

[lean hill]

Also some sin legendaries

[hoary copper]

Didnt realize it was 933. Idk what you sim at but Im showing no sin leggos and no tier

[spare cloud]

Once you get into Normal and then maybe heroic you can worry about trying to go for BiS stats

And yeah, legendaries

[hoary copper]

both those help

[calm spear]

the guild im in isnt big enough for raiding which is why i have mythic gear

[vapid moth]

are you alliance?

[hoary copper]

You can pug normal/heroic abt tho. With that gear you can prob get normal at least

[spare cloud]

Set is very important for Assa

Gnome rogue -> probably Horde

[calm spear]

yes alliance

[vapid moth]

wanna pug right now?

[lean hill]

You can get tier from LFR, you haven't cleared that yet

[spare cloud]

That as well

[calm spear]

im at work atm, just trying to get some tips to do some testing tonight and work on the basics

[vapid moth]

alright. but yeah you need 4set. focus on mastery and crit. and make sure you have the optimal talents

[hoary copper]

Lol I wanna pug...also stuck at work boo

[calm spear]

ok cool...thank you

these last 3 hrs are going by so dang slow

[hoary copper]

Yea all day has bee here. its 1722 now, but I have to make up for leaving early for a concert Tuesday. Sigh

[hard gust]

is t21 4p a lot of energy regen?

[plain thistle]

how much is "a lot" for you? but yes its noticeable, and a great dps increase

you can always sim, and check the resource gain from it in your simc report

[hard gust]

i mean, currently i feel pretty energy starved

struggling to keep up 4+cp envenoms

[plain thistle]

T21 doesnt change that, thats how the spec works

[hard gust]

that's a shame

[plain thistle]

T21 4p is about 13%-14% of our energy gain, its significant

[safe matrix]

it becomes better the more crit you have though

so you have to spam mutilate less to get to 4+

[digital bridge]

tuleeks joku viel jauhaa

[strange python]

T21?

[drifting cosmos]

🤷 it just feels bad if mutil crit is low

sim might say otherwise

[hazy iron]

low crit = harder to reach your sim damage, due to inability to land on 4 cp's more consistently

i know, I had 22% crit with 210% mastery, my journey has been long and arduous :/

[vapid moth]

wha t do you have now

[vapid moth]

lol the mythic pug groups. "sorry we are full" but he has 3 dps spots open

people so full of shit. why cant you just say "i dont want you"

[hazy iron]

uh i think im sitting at 34% crit and 190% mastery. I had a shit tonne of haste and verse that i didnt need also, according to sims

[spare cloud]

Sim damage harder to reach due to having the same values sim works with

🤔

[wise frigate]

[spare cloud]

[hazy iron]

what i meant was it's easier to do consistently higher damage with crit than without, due to how easy it is to keep everything up

which therefore makes it harder to screw up

the way I see it, is there's less decision making when you're consistently landing on 4 cp

[surreal lodge]

i finally dropped all haste but legos

super hyped

[hazy iron]

im so close.. how's it feel lol

still at 6% because of my damn ring

[surreal lodge]

2.4% hnng

28crit 202mast

[vapid moth]

Watches the chat complain about haste as I sit on my 18% vers

feelsbadman

[hazy iron]

haha i was there too

[turbid pecan]

assassination gettin any raid buff in BFA? lol

[fiery nest]

let me look at my crystal ball

[turbid pecan]

mines cracked otherwise id have checked mine

[supple hearth]

raid buff?

like mark of the wild?

[wise frigate]

Aren't we getting a raid debuff?

[steep obsidian]

yeh when you press mutliate it applies a debuff

or at least it used to im bad at keepign up to date on things on beta

[latent crow]

Expose armor

I think all rogues had

A longntime ago idk too lazy on mobile

Not for bfa i mean we thats the debuff we had for raids?

[steep obsidian]

oh wasnt it a mastery aura? feels like so long ago

googlefu might tell you

[surreal lodge]

we used to have 10% haste in mop

[wise frigate]

I dunno why I want to say it was a crit aura from Honor Among Thieves

[surreal lodge]

and expose armor was a finisher

[latent crow]

Oooo

[wise frigate]

I could be wrong on that.

[surreal lodge]

honor among thieves was only for ourselves, we had a haste aura for like 1xpac

[steep obsidian]

yeah ea was sunder armour

i had to keep that shit up as a finisher in my 10 man group for ages

[surreal lodge]

u guys didnt have a warrior on that? D:

[steep obsidian]

not in our 10 man

we did get a druid eventually

[latent crow]

Mangle bot

Or faerie fire

I forget

[steep obsidian]

faerie fire

[latent crow]

You used to be able to tell if a rogue was camping a base with someone by the buffs they had

[warped tangle]

just because i see active ppl here, what race shall i make my rogue? it is worth to go Belf even tho the racial getting fucked in BFA?

[latent crow]

Dwarf

Beards yo

[warped tangle]

if horde sided

[latent crow]

Dont make a male nightborne the model is crap

[steep obsidian]

i actually don't see expose armour applied as a debuff anymore I'm sure it was there when I originally got beta

i guess i should pay attention to things

[latent crow]

Legs so skinny and boots its a welfare nelf with better hair

[warped tangle]

hmm thanks !

[drifting cosmos]

When is mdi again?

[latent crow]

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Expose_Armor

[steep obsidian]

yeh that the old version that hasnt been in the game since wod

[latent crow]

Mdi is saturday for europe at a weird time

[steep obsidian]

mdi is in like 9 hours

[latent crow]

In the am

Like 5am pdt

I think

[drifting cosmos]

Thanks!

[latent crow]

Tbh the mdi streams are tooo long for my attention span

The vods are what 7hrs?

[drifting cosmos]

Yea something like that

And I agree, it’s probably better just watch from raider.io site later on

But watching it live is somewhat more exciting

[vapid moth]

ive never actaully looked at heals during an M+. but im still supposed to get some on trash packs right

[civic palm]

Watching live trainwrecks is so so good.

[vapid moth]

edgy

[civic palm]

I mean it's like I am wishing it on them.

and no on is dying from it, so w/e.

[steep obsidian]

if you can watch the vod of the disc priest healing morose from the Chinese round

the guy was a god

[surreal lodge]

i read trainwreck and thought you meant trainswreckstv

[steep obsidian]

kept people up with 5 stacks of grievous and multiple garrote stacks on a 23 for like 90 secs at like below 50% health

whole group was getting wrecked

[civic palm]

👌

[steep obsidian]

i meant

morose not medivh

[civic palm]

Yeaaaaaah, I remember that.

O _O

[timber osprey]

Is it good to stack traits like Master Assasin or master Alchemist? Or is there like a cap of how many i should get

[civic palm]

Yes. No.

[plain thistle]

no

and

yes

[timber osprey]

Sooooo stack as many as i can or like what LOL

wtf answer is that LOL

[plain thistle]

no

[manic vigil]

[plain thistle]

relics is not all about your weapon traits

ILVL and crucible are important too, but there is no cap for MA or MAalch

in MA case, there is diminishing return

[manic vigil]

well, there is a cap actually 😛 try going above 7 if there isn't

[timber osprey]

Yeah, the diminshing return was what i was scared about... at one point i had three or 4 Master Alchemist's and like 2 master assa's

from then i changed it and tried to spread everything out...

[plain thistle]

oh yeah, thats a hard cap actually, 7 is the max you can get 😄

[civic palm]

Yeah...

[manic vigil]

[civic palm]

Jhonwei please.

[timber osprey]

Is it worh to get to that cap or get alot of different traits?

[civic palm]

The easiest answer is to Sim yourself and see what ends up being better for you.

[timber osprey]

i saved up over 20+ relics atm lol

[plain thistle]

it is, if the relic is good too, the answer is to sim the relic

comparing it to what you have equiped

if you are talking about TRAITS alone

[timber osprey]

Yeah simming just takes ages to update

[plain thistle]

yes, 3MA or/and 3 MAlch is great

[civic palm]

2MA bad (timing issues), 3MA, 3Malch, 3BB, all good.

[plain thistle]

but not the only correct answer as well, balanced blades and toxic blades are also very good

[civic palm]

mm yeah TB as well, good good.

[manic vigil]

2MA is alright as well if non-mantle

[timber osprey]

feel like im doing ti all wrong now LOL

[steep obsidian]

isnt bb only really good for bleed build?

[civic palm]

You might be. Catch the sims and see..

[timber osprey]

im i lvl 960 my sim is almost 1.9m

[manic vigil]

no

I want 3malch/3bb

as poison

[steep obsidian]

well yeah for gameplay for sure

i could see

[civic palm]

Yeah 3malch/3bb as PSN is preeetty dope.

[steep obsidian]

but it sims higher?

[civic palm]

Allows more ENV during TB windows.

[manic vigil]

I actually don't know ^^

[plain thistle]

higher than MA/MAalch? no

[steep obsidian]

cool

[manic vigil]

I doubt it with optimized gear yeah

my crit is so low that BB is probably overrated rn

[civic palm]

I doubt you're a robot with no ping as well.

[steep obsidian]

like constant 4 cp is pretty braindead

[manic vigil]

I'm a robot 😡

[plain thistle]

my dream gameplay is 40% crit with dogs trinket, 3 shocklights with 3BB + 3MA/Malch

😂

[manic vigil]

change my mind

[civic palm]

ok ok mister robot

[plain thistle]

for poison build without shoulder ofc

[steep obsidian]

domo arigato mr roboto

[plain thistle]

maybe more crit, but you would need to sacrifice too much mastery for that

haha

and OFC T20 2P

985 gloves and shoulder, boots+bracer and T21 4p

😂

[timber osprey]

Does anyone have a link to traits for assa and their damage agaist the other traits?

[manic vigil]

yeeee, good luck with that

[steep obsidian]

there is a trait spreadsheet in the pins seth

[timber osprey]

ty ❤

[steep obsidian]

it is always best to sim the combos using raidbots though

[plain thistle]

HAHAHA, let me dream plz

[manic vigil]

[lost mist]

!relics

[chrome tusk]

List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

gray_hounds relic sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=0

[topaz ingot]

Golganneth's Vitality 15-Pantheon << what does 15-pantheon means?

from the trinket sims list

[fast nacelle]

dat feeling if you have 970 eoc on your dh and rogue

[orchid prawn]

@topaz ingot 15 other pantheon-trinket users in the raid

[topaz ingot]

ah i see. thanks @orchid prawn

[orchid prawn]

np, confused me aswell first time i saw it

[sinful jewel]

hi guys

its means i have beta for bfa?

[zealous dew]

no, you have beta for the sims 2019

[supple hearth]

tfw will never be beta enough for beta

[zealous dew]

😄

[civic palm]

,<

[dire spoke]

<_ <

when checking herodamage, at what ilvl do you guys look at mythic graphs instead of heroic? 970+ ?

cus you can reach 965 with almost no mythic ilvl item

[stark heart]

@supple hearth you just need to be alpha and get alpha invite

[supple hearth]

tfw no more alphas in the world 😦

[dire spoke]

@gusty kestrel

[jovial kite]

guys

this server

is dead

[dire spoke]

rip in peace

[vestal wren]

👋 server not dead, lets pitch about personal loot

[strange python]

i didnt get any 😦

[jovial kite]

same 😦

But the trials did 😦

[quick ice]

Trials are real people too

[steep obsidian]

the trial wouldnt trade his loot so we kicked him

[zealous dew]

Lol

Trade me

[steep obsidian]

we found the trial was looting items from his mailbox what a dbag

[jovial kite]

we setup a gear officer to keep track of ppls gear from logs and reference every log with items equipped for every single raid

and for every single player

This takes time but the officer is a nerd so its all good

[steep obsidian]

its ok they hotfixed it no one can trade anything guys

/s

[solid nova]

I agree, trials shouldn't have to trade their hard earned loot

[steep obsidian]

omg the guy we trialed on the mythic end tier boss got the mount and gquit

ill stop 😐

[strange python]

if a trial even knows what loot is, dont promote them

[zealous dew]

Lol

What's this obsession for a mount

[vestal wren]

you can just set up an addon/wa and manage loot like it is now

so the only restriction of the new loot system is the early progress where you are more limited due to not beeing able to trade the majority of loot

[quick ice]

Until "that guy" screws it all up by not looting and letting it go to mailbox, like slagg said

[strange python]

really we need the dps meters to accurately show our dps as if we had been given all the loot, thats the big issue here

[steep obsidian]

is there even any perk for sticking around and being loyal to a guild now? or is that a thing of the past

[spare cloud]

Think of the trials dude

ofc not

[steep obsidian]

i love all the players who dont raid with a guild saying that the mythic raiders just need to suck it up because its better for the game too

[zealous dew]

Loyalty to the jersey

[spare cloud]

You're better than me, so fuck you!

[steep obsidian]

the guy who didnt do the 300 wipes on this boss and was dead 30 secs into the fight on his first farm kill, that guy deserves loot too!

dont be mean guys

[astral sundial]

can still trade loot tho right? so I don't think it will be such a big deal if you want to manage loot

[steep obsidian]

trading looks is messy as hell and just

annoying

[astral sundial]

ye, but that's all it is

30 seconds more of an hassle once in a while

[steep obsidian]

some guilds can't even cope with masterlooting drops after each boss and take ages

trading loot is messier and just feels bleh

oh wellz

[spare cloud]

Everyone already said

[steep obsidian]

i prolly won't be doing mythic anyway

[spare cloud]

that it doesn't matter weeks into the content

it's about the early mythic progression

[steep obsidian]

most peopel arent top guilds

[spare cloud]

Yes ofc

[steep obsidian]

and it does matter weeks into the content

[spare cloud]

thats why they do it that way

[steep obsidian]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spare cloud]

If you're in a guild full of cunts yeah

[strange python]

a guild full of cunts, sounds nice

[steep obsidian]

gl on being a feeder guild that shit gonna get even worse

[astral sundial]

meh if it only effects the most cutting edge guilds then how can you expect the feedback of the minority to be the deciding factor - assuming you are just on the top guilds of your realm even, I doubt it will make much impact progress wise

[spare cloud]

Yeh indeed

[zealous dew]

But trinkets bro

And relics

Oh no wait

[jovial kite]

it makes its only impact during progress

Which is the only reason it sucks

[astral sundial]

again, if you are in position where a single piece of gear can make or break your progress (so at the first place you are probably in an extremely high ranked guild) you shouldn't have an issue with just trading the gear : /

[jovial kite]

you cant trade the gear

if its an upgrade

so first and second week are scuffed

[astral sundial]

well it was being stated that most IL upgrades will be actual upgrade - so even if someone gets an upgrade that would benefit someone else a bit more, it shouldn't be such a big deal. remember that for this to happen you already narrowed the options quite a bit.

rng wise I mean.

not saying it can't hurt progress, I just think it is not such a big deal is ppl are making it.

[jovial kite]

if you say its not a big deal you probably have no clue

And have never been within a circle thats influenced by the change

[astral sundial]

my last hardecore raiding was in wrath, I got my celestial defender. right now progressing on argus (phase 3 pre nerf), I guess for some here that is considered total nothing progress wise - but again, if you only talk about the most cutting edge guilds, why would you think the minority should be the one being considerd when making this change?

[jovial kite]

why change something that works

Its not like having the option hurts anyone

[astral sundial]

ye I agree

[jovial kite]

why cant you consider the minority too

Why dictate for the majority

Its not like the game breaks if you leave ml

[zealous dew]

I agree with slag

personal is just f0king stupid

[wise frigate]

I'm glad personal exists. But to force you to use it is just stupid.

[steep obsidian]

i love personal for pugs

its great

[wise frigate]

^

[steep obsidian]

forciing it on organised groups is dumb

[astral sundial]

one reason I can see them "forcing" personal loot is to avoid split runs - those "forcing" a better gameplay on cutting edge players. also rememeber it doesn't realy effect the competative side of progress as other guilds will have to raid this way aswell

[steep obsidian]

it doesnt fix split runs though

it just slows down the gearing process a little

[wise frigate]

"it wasn't intended to punish split runs" IIRC them saying. Which I buy about as much as half the shit my president says.

[jovial kite]

tfw some people might lose their raidspot due to shit rng and shit loot

[steep obsidian]

well it makes them different

[jovial kite]

when the worse player gets the better loot

[wise frigate]

Like my old guild's resident shitter.

[steep obsidian]

people will do split runs regardless at the top

and just like stack leather and cloth or wahtever together

[wise frigate]

Has Aman'Thul's on two characters, neither of which are his main, regularly gets 20-30 ilvl TFs from heroic. Like, every week. Sometimes multiple in one week.

[steep obsidian]

go watch what the streamers already do on tehir alts

[wise frigate]

And this guy has been raiding Antorus for what, probably 15 weeks now? And still gets lost trying to get anywhere.

[steep obsidian]

if ya wanna see how its gonna be 😛

[carmine island]

can someone give info on aoe burst?

for like M+

[jovial kite]

poisonbomb

[steep obsidian]

play sub for aoe burst

[wise frigate]

^

[zealous dew]

Play monk

[steep obsidian]

you can do a little with vanish and foks and envenoms with shoulders

but sub is more reliable and consistent

sin is still good though just you wont win overall against a good monk or sub rogue

in all seriousness though just keep up a few ruptres then spam fok and nv and then pray for pb

[carmine island]

Alright cheers, I'll try get gear for sub for m+ push then

[spare cloud]

@astral sundial About your forcing it to decrease the amount of splitruns is also wrong

Because you just splitraid the same class and use the one that was the luckiest

if Anything it makes more even MORE splits due to having to be able to swap classes as well

so it has the opposite effect

if anything

[steep obsidian]

maybe it wont be the first tier but the 2nd tier it 100% will be

plus your alt can have high ilvl pieces from m+ or hwatever that might be shit tier eventually

so you can trade

[mortal shadow]

for hight m+ >21 on tyrannical weeks. which legs do i use for bosses like the last in dht?

[steep obsidian]

might want to use prydaz so you are less likely to cheat to other stuff?

[spare cloud]

just normal ones

[steep obsidian]

but its doable without

dpends how good yer healer is

[spare cloud]

21 should be np

[steep obsidian]

yeah 21 isnt that bad

[spare cloud]

for like 24+ prydaz

[lethal heart]

if you can feint -> no prydaz needed

if thats single target that you cant feint -> prydaz

[steep obsidian]

does feint work on feed?

[lethal heart]

nope

on xavius

[steep obsidian]

i find that is more dangerous then bolt tbh

[spare cloud]

No it doesnt

[lethal heart]

you must play no shoulders

[steep obsidian]

heealer has to be on point

[spare cloud]

thats why

[lethal heart]

and use vanish/cloak

[spare cloud]

bolt you can feint

[lethal heart]

on feeds

bolt you cant feint either

[spare cloud]

you cant?

Lul

[lethal heart]

unless specced into elusiveness

which most rogues do for that dungeon

for that case

thing about this boss is

[spare cloud]

Dont mind me then

🤷

[lethal heart]

you dont wanna use vanish/cloak for nightmare bolt

you wanna use feint for that with elusiveness + prydaz probably

and you wanna use vanish/cloak for feeds