how is assassination looking in BFA?
#assassination
turbid pecan
civic palm
Fine
turbid pecan
got any kind of idea what the rotation will be?
safe matrix
It's alpha
wet thistle
With 7 points in master assassin how big of a difference is using dustwalker in place of shoulders/bracers?
On mobile
Just looking for anecdotal thoughts
fervent beacon
supple hearth
prime void
lone junco
๐ฎ
steep obsidian
feelycraft is best
i think that guy just wanted a feel and thoughts on how it plays though mebbe
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
dense quest
luck
hazy iron
โค
nova pagoda
no kill me instead
civic palm
_>"
zealous dew
mdi gone bananas again ?
civic palm
AUS couldn't find their ethernet cable.
zealous dew
must be hard living in 4th world
steep obsidian
they should just replay all the games from yestrday tbh
hazy iron
can confirm, telstra charges premium prices for 4th world internet
turbid harbor
but muh esports
tawdry bloom
outlaw hidden appearance from 2 daily heroics and sub hidden appearance from my first key 
jovial kite
๐คฃ
grim jay
best change so far: getting dispatch back
mild bough
on the same talent row as Master Poisoner and Elaborate Planning... idk about that one
grim jay
still enough to have fun tho
on the other hand it could yet still end up being better than the other 2
zealous dew
i'm toxic
hardy pewter
midnight latch
What mechanics are we losing artifacts asside?
quick ice
I mean, there are a lot of mechanics in the artifacts
midnight latch
you mean like we played around Surge of Toxin 
quick ice
I was thinking urge to kill, then rememebred they baselined that
I'll vaguely miss dense concoction
midnight latch
https://i.imgur.com/bveyXbK.png I mean look at this
thats how we spent our time on this spec
andKingsbane 9.6s which is gone
drifting cosmos
midnight latch
well even than we spent half of the time on 4 abilities anyways
and all specs look similiar
losing maybe 6-10s in some case to artifacts beeing remove
spare cloud
gcd changes are fun as warrior
spare cloud
What?
midnight latch
havent played warrior so I cant really how huge of a difference gcd is for that class
spare cloud
๐คท
stark heart
The only thing I'd miss from artifact is KB
And I would honestly see PK instead of PB as a talent in last row
quick ice
PK instead of hidden blades would make more sense to me
warm parcel
Pk is just aoe
Hb is burst
quick ice
true. I think I'm used to the cloak being bad because PK exists. Guess it would be less bad than it is now with PK gone
warm parcel
Less bad? Perhaps
Still feels bad to use? Imo yes
fiery sage
midnight latch
nobody can answer that cause everything is subject to change so it would be a wild guess with no basis
ocean root
can someone who knows assasination check my profile and see which items or what should i do in order to increase dmg ?
midnight latch
Some friendly advice:
Step 1: Read the guide til u think u grasped most of it that is presented there. :)
Step 2: get the simcraft addon use /simc in game and copy it to
https://www.raidbots.com to find stat weights and top gear for ur spec
step 3: Get a log of some bosses and compare it with ppl doing more damage with similiar Itemlvl like u have
step 4: provide us with a log so we might take a look what u can improve on
gaunt moat
zealous dew
omg naya so professional
ocean root
i alradey did these things
midnight latch
(optional) skip steps if u already did them
ocean root
so i will send y a log right now
zealous dew
shoot
midnight latch
๐
tawdry bloom
asks which items will increase his damage, says he simmed already 
spare cloud
thats not a log
ocean root
i dont have any logs with sin
brisk forge
erm
midnight latch
u can make one on a target dummy if u like
ocean root
should i ? ๐ Cuz i dont know the rotation very well yet ๐ ๐
spare cloud
thats what were here for
brisk forge
When u ask ppl to check your logs that isnt raidbots so you know ๐ Its WCL that is what you wanna share ๐
ocean root
yeah but logs wont be good cuz i dont know the rotation etc
brisk forge
but nooone cant help you w/o
spare cloud
then how do you want us to help you?
ocean root
i want if y can just to check out my gear if its properly for sin or not
cuz im playing sub and i just turned it to sin
brisk forge
thats pointless or do a raidbot if you wanna see what gear you should use
spare cloud
you already simmed
the best way to gear properly is to use the statweights from sims
spare cloud
so?
brisk forge
Bro, dont stair you blind on things, use raidbot to sim gear and warcraftlogs for deeps
Nothing hard about it
check http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ for assa
spare cloud
You should sim your gear as sub as well
so there should not be many changes
You just compare the gear you have
while keeping in mind the stat weights you previously simmed
You dont need to do more
ocean root
and how will i learn what else do i need?
spare cloud
By playing and sending us logs?
talent choices as well as legendary combinations should also be simmed
and once you got them you just learn the corresponding rotation
sharp viper
naya namba wan shadowblade
midnight latch
Oh pls I didnt do anything ๐
spare cloud
Naya for shadowblade
midnight latch
spare cloud
what is that abomination
sharp viper
you can fund my nitro, toph
spare cloud
No you're not shadowblade
midnight latch
spare cloud
every fund is under the assumption that funded person is in a position of power
sharp viper
that is lobbyism
sharp viper
i don't believe it until you've decided for one 
midnight latch
he has
its a gif
also we should slowly move to #off-topic
dont wanna wake the don
ocean root
if ill make a log at dummy in order to tell me my mistakes you need a five min fight?
midnight latch
5min would be fine yes
ocean root
ok im going for my first ever fight with sin ๐
fervent beacon
๐
stark heart
And ruptures as well
midnight latch
There is a #off-topic channel you know?
heavy plover
eager venture
Hai boi's ok I might need a little help with deeps for raiding, if anyone is able to help I would appreciate it. I have logs and can give you info so you can find me but I'm getting grey logs in my raids and I can't afford to be cut :/
eager venture
I haven't had time to send logs give me a sec ๐
sharp viper
did you read the guide first?
brisk forge
Understand the basics then start with logs ๐๐ป
spare cloud
Still no logs ๐ค
steep obsidian
you scared them away ๐ฆ
eager venture
Ok ok lemme find logs sorry was sorting guild out I'll link our logs
steep obsidian
hmm yeah my pic is weird i agree
eager venture
My pic is me. What's wrong with it?
steep obsidian
the movie its from is kinda funny though
spare cloud
I don't think I was born yet when that kind of movie came out.
eager venture
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/143720 I'm lollypet. Yesterday logs are not great I was killed.. Don't ask. The week before was better
spare cloud
Your relics seem shit
whole quail
hey guys i was curious how can i improve more my dps as assassin how can i truly reach 100% perf ilvl% on warcraftlogs is only about my rotation and tacts on bosses ?
well on simc i am doing 100-200k lower dmg depends the fight
spare cloud
@eager venture https://gyazo.com/e7e5e2cb3c8d0f9af2e609b2499ebfca
What are you doing there
Why do you just do nothing
turbid harbor
is that dogs?
spare cloud
No, its garothi
steep obsidian
ninja pull?
whole quail
i was also curious also if i brought addon with my rotation will i improve my rotation timer or its not worth since i am almost near to the max dps as simc say?
turbid harbor
does he take damage from a soak in the mean time?
spare cloud
then you still dont refresh rupture after 10 seconds?
eager venture
There was a shit ton on soaks or running from boss if that's a mythic log you pulled up
spare cloud
doesnt explain the rupture refreshing after 10 seconds.,
turbid harbor
ya it's bad to cast rupture twice in 10s, but thats not what you asked
on the next week log the same thing happens and he casts envenom
instead of 2nd rupture
turbid harbor
the kill time is 7 minutes
spare cloud
You should soak melee range
turbid harbor
the guild is clearly wheelchair af
spare cloud
5:36 = 7 Minutes
turbid harbor
i'd soak all i could
spare cloud
turbid harbor
the next week is 6:44
spare cloud
You don't even know which log I'm looking at
turbid harbor
you could do with using shadowstep better though
if you soak in ranged shadowstep back to boss instead of run
eager venture
I do soak all I can we are designated sides if there is no soaks near melee range on that side I'm screwed
spare cloud
You use your second kingsbane 45 seconds after the first one
eager venture
Like I said anything I can do to not get cut is good I'm not at risk yet but I'm at a loss
turbid harbor
you need to work on dying less as well
the 3 logs i've looked at you've died in each one
eager venture
Hc or mythic and which one?
turbid harbor
i'm looking at mythic logs
hc logs don't matter
unless you don't raid mythic at all
eager venture
Yeah I know still learning mythic, fun times ๐
viscid helm
turbid harbor
what is that
viscid helm
you should finish at 4cp
steep obsidian
ow
spare cloud
Keep Envenom buff up for the whole duration of kingsbane
You should get 2 or more envenoms into every toxic blade
eager venture
I know I need to time Kingsbane better
spare cloud
and again don't drop envenom during kingsbane
It's not about kingsbane timing
it's about timing your abilites better around kingsbane
you got it the other way around
Kingsbane should be used on CD
you don't want to drop casts
spare cloud
steep obsidian
learn the damage patterns and only feint when you gonna take a big hit
eager venture
Yeah not much faith when one tank likes to kill me. I need to work on feint more
steep obsidian
i personally just trust my healers and only feint if cheat is on cd
spare cloud
you can easily get 3 envenoms into a toxic blade
steep obsidian
or if i am taking damage during downtime
viscid helm
probably because it was 1cp rupt?
steep obsidian
you can mitigate more with smart use of cloak then spamming feint you dont use cloak at all in the logs ive seen
spare cloud
???
eager venture
No I never use cloak I should more, agreed :)
spare cloud
Your number one focus should be survival
which rogue is one of the best classes for
make use of your abilities
Focus on improving your toxic blade windows and Kingsbane windows
and you should see a huge increase in dps
Also don't vanish on CD
Delay vanish for the next vendetta
and
if it's your last vanish in the fight
make sure its under 30% boss hp
eager venture
Pretend to be me in raid tonight please @spare cloud ;) get me some logs
spare cloud
@eager venture When do you use finishers?
eager venture
I use them on four points if I can
eager venture
To mutilate at 4 is a waste as then I over mutilate so it's all a math game, I know I'm sloppy
spare cloud
You can, in some cases use rupture with less cp. But don't do that for now
turbid harbor
you casted mutilate at 4cp 5 times on your garothi mythic log a couple weeks ago, i cba counting last week as well
try to remember not to do that
steep obsidian
you forget to pot half the time or use your 2nd pot before 30%
id recommend punching a dummy until you can do it without thinkin about it
eager venture
I normally do but I haven't done that for quite a while guess I'm off to organise to go meet Derek again
steep obsidian
so it doesnt fall apart the first time you have to do a mechanic
brisk forge
That happends when i start playing a new class ๐ All panic
steep obsidian
get a good set of weak auras to track your buffs and debuffs
and cds
and somethign to remind you to do things you forget
like yell at you when rupture or garrote drops
shit like that
eager venture
I am not comfortable in mythic at all I won't lie. Dogs are a killer I have a custom made WA which glows when rupture and envenom are dropping also
spare cloud
Thats good
well start of with getting used to the rotation
You could go punch a dummy for 10 minutes
and log it
then you can look at it yourself and try to do it better next time
repeat that a couple of times and you should have the rotation down
steep obsidian
mythic is just like heroic nothing to be uncomfortable about if you understand the fights on heroic you are mostly fine for mythic
spare cloud
Thats not true at all
steep obsidian
for the first half it is
steep obsidian
not insanely different
spare cloud
I agree high command is mostly the same
Garothi has double the amount of mechanics it has at heroic
pretty sure its a large difference
steep obsidian
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
eager venture
Garothi is alot more soaks agreed. And hounds completely different shit
steep obsidian
just trying to say nothing to be scared about is all
spare cloud
It is nothing to be scared about
but you have to put in the effort
If you just go in with a shitty mentality you already failed
steep obsidian
those same mechanics you can get away with srewing up on heroic kill you on mythic
eager venture
It is scary when you get told your logs are too shit.
spare cloud
and preparation is very important
steep obsidian
is the point i was trying to make
steep obsidian
so if you are good at understanding the base mecs and not screwing them up
its a good base
eager venture
Fire dog is a killer. Shadow I'm fine on
turbid harbor
move the same way around the dog with your raid, clockwise or anticlockwise, whatever is agreed upon beforehand
and cloak the purple ball explosion
eager venture
I actually never thought to cloak that
spare cloud
I think you should focus on getting your basics down first ๐คท
eager venture
I normally sprint the shit out of there at last second throwing some fan of knives while running like a mad girl ๐
turbid harbor
me too but if she shits the bed on certain mechanics she may as well be told how to deal with them
spare cloud
Cant do your rotation right if you dont know how to do it properly ๐คท
But yeh, you can work on your rotation outside of the raid
inside of the raid you mainly work on the encounter mechanics
eager venture
So after all this discussion which you are kindly helping a noob with what key points do I need?so I can screen shot and go see how to improve them and shut a demon hunter up over my logs? Pretty please :)
spare cloud
Get your kingsbane windows down, get your toxic blade windows down, don't use finishers with less than 4 cp
get your vanishes right
learn which encounters you can use cloak on to avoid mechanics
๐คท
turbid harbor
also get weakauras that glow when your cds are ready/bleeds are down
and don't mutilate at 4cp
steep obsidian
get over the compulsion to spam your buttons, especially pool before kingsbane and vanishes
obviously you spam during the shoulder crit window but don't go in starved
just those things will give you at least 300k dps
prolly more
eager venture
Thanks guys think I have a date with Derek the dummy
echo estuary
watch out for Derek he's a playa
supple hearth
Yeh been banged and Is always getting hit on
spare cloud
saved
eager venture
I was going to rename him to someone I'm not keen on but Derek the dummy works still. So if you see a rogue on Derek for a hour then please poke me in orgrimar ๐
crisp pelican
hi, asked for a bit of help in #tc-research but it doens't seem very active ๐ could someone check my sim a little plz?
spare cloud
Send
spare cloud
What do you expect to get out of it?
spare cloud
change to nightly version and 100.000 iterations
Your gear doesn't seem that good, so yeh that should be pretty normal
crisp pelican
well look at how much mastery they give
and my haste score is pretty low even with that
supple hearth
There are mastery crit necks tho
steep obsidian
errr
vapid moth
look at these bartering skills
steep obsidian
@crisp pelican your relic traits kinda suck youd go up a fair bit with 7/7 malch 7/7 ma even dropping ilvls on yer weapon
drifting cloud
neck is fine tbh
that 980 neck beats 960 dogs im pretty sure
youre losing 50k dps from pantheon not being 1k, 930 legs thats also alot of agi lost
drifting cloud
lol u cant be serious
spare cloud
drifting cloud
its 980 with 3.4 mastery
are u trolling or what
its not good but its def better than a base mythic neck
spare cloud
a 960 one with crit mastery is most likely gonna be better
drifting cloud
nope ur wrong
drifting cloud
that neck is almost 20k upgrade over my 955 crit mastery
yeah except I dont need to sim
because I know how stuff actually scales
if that neck had 2.5k haste it would be trash
but it has super high mastery
spare cloud
It's still not a good neck
pallid vapor
๐คจ
plain thistle
chill plz
plain thistle
ok ๐คท
void pecan
โค
copper wigeon
Can anyone help me with a talent build/rotation for assas rogue pvp?
thorn moth
yarrrr
supple hearth
It's not as bad as when people ask for the stat priority in pvp
zealous dew
can someone remove pvp ?
strange python
whats the biggest sim ever in legion for a sin rogue / character
spare cloud
Yes.
strange python
??? does anyone has a picture of it
crisp pelican
thanks for the feedback guys, indeed i need to change pretty much all my relics, as far as ilvl upgrades go, it's one of my many alts so getting it to 970 equipped is not a huge priority ๐
crisp pelican
i'm just sad cause i have a 985 cloak with socket that's sitting in my bags cause i need the hand tier piece
echo estuary
imagine if you could sell your gear
crisp pelican
yeah, i know, and i'm pretty satisfied with my heroic parses, but i can still push it a bit further on many fights
supple hearth
@sharp viper GTFO with that trolling crap you ๐ฅ lmao xoxo
supple hearth
Do it
drifting cloud
does anyone know when they changed so you can trade all the loot
crisp pelican
so how high do you guys think assa can sim with about 960 equipped and perfect gear?
drifting cloud
it was after antorus launched right
zealous dew
2.252.172
crisp pelican
hmm i think it was before that, maybe during tos
drifting cloud
think it was after I remember a friend not being able to trade me doggo neck from heroic because he didnt have prydaz
copper pine
Hey can anyone help me ? I dont know what im doing wrong with my assa rogue but my logs arent that good (ilvl logs) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/malfurion/tiimbo
copper pine
also when i took my logs into wowanalyzer there are no Major issues
solid nova
@copper pine https://gyazo.com/0d4d990607d5d23a94cea16a65072be0
If youre using shoulders, which you are - why are you double mutilating?
plain thistle
vanish > envenom > mut > enveom > mut > envenom , not double mutilate ๐
drifting cloud
maybe he has anticipation
plain thistle
wtf is that?
solid nova
And you're not using Vanish and Vendetta together
echo estuary
anticipation new meta
copper pine
no i dont use it all the time together
solid nova
You should hold vanish for vendetta
plain thistle
you can survive the "run" phase with just 1 feint, dont need to run
solid nova
Why are you opening like you dont have shoulders?
copper pine
which number do you mean Jhonwei ?
lost horizon
You can do better with 2p/SoT uptime as well
lost horizon
Mutilate waste should be 0 always
plain thistle
your only combo point wasted need to be only from seal fate, but not that much too
drifting cloud
hey didnt you say that you sometimes tb at 4 jhonwei ๐
lost horizon
That's still seal fate if it crits
drifting cloud
oh right obv
lost horizon
So the waste wouldn't be under TB
plain thistle
not a problem at all
drifting cloud
my bad
plain thistle
its the same as mutilating at 3CP, waste will happen sometimes
drifting cloud
thats why you get a fok relic then you can fok at 3cp
lost horizon
Blegh
drifting cloud
looks at my 980 garothi blood and cries
copper pine
Yes when i have 3CP I multilating one more time
solid nova
MANTLE
plain thistle
with my crit and relics even with 2 targets its a loss to FoK over mut ๐
lost horizon
@copper pine you need to track your CP better so that you're not wasting it
plain thistle
@snow robin and you should
drifting cloud
really? how can you check that
plain thistle
at 3CP you should mutilate
drifting cloud
doesnt apl fok at 3cp with moer than 5pk by default
plain thistle
@drifting cloud change a sim to 2 targets, check if its using FoK, if it is, change the APL and delete FoK lines ๐
lost horizon
@plain thistle in that situation do you still Fok to apply dp once in a while for energy?
plain thistle
depends, for coven, I switch targets completely to garrote+rupture, and that already apply DP
but if I need to only apply DP, yes , i FOK
copper pine
@lost horizon ok thank you. i will try it.
drifting cloud
yeah but you run 2+4 boots bracers all the time dont you
not alot of people do that
lost horizon
Say stacked dogs though, I would use mouseovers for bleeds
I'd probably have to Fok to keep DP up once in a while
supple hearth
Also get rid of haste boots asap
lost horizon
I think Fok is still a gain for me on 2t
But if I get more Crit for my 2+4 who knows
plain thistle
for me its probably because I have 1-2 (cant remember) BB traits, and 0 PK traits ๐คท
drifting cloud
yeah 1 pk trait is like 25% baseline increase isnt it
doesnt it go from 12 to 15?
probably way bigger increase than 1 bb trait
on that specific situation that is, not on st ๐
turbid harbor
have you tried fok at 2+ or 3+ on 2 targets @plain thistle
turbid harbor
yea, more interested in 2+
plain thistle
no i havent
plain thistle
for coven I cant FoK at all sometimes, because they dont tank the boss close enough at all times
drifting cloud
do you have a dps tank it?
plain thistle
yes
drifting cloud
then you just pray for storm rng
plain thistle
and he sometimes dont move the boss close to fire adds
he move for the first add, but for the second he takes too much time and the add is almost dead ๐
copper pine
So i need to wait with Vanish, till Vendetta is ready ? even if its more then 20 sec ?
drifting cloud
unless the boss is gonna die sooner ofc ๐
copper pine
OK thank you ๐
spare cloud
If you are sure about the killtimes and they fit what you can do is
Vendetta with vanish , vanish without vendetta, then get the last vanish with vendetta in execute
dark yoke
Hey guys, hope you can answer my one question. Just looted a 935 CoF, would it in anyway be worth using?
void pecan
dark yoke
Sim doesn't say so. But dont know how it communicate with old content items
spare cloud
It does well with them.
gaunt moat
not sure what you mean by "communicate" but the simulation is updated for all relics.
strange python
sim daddy is wise and experienced
dark yoke
Well then my question is answered, thank you
lethal heart
strange python
still a nice chunk of stats
strange python
@viscid helm i hate to ping but what stats are you running for alac?
patent topaz
I took a break for a few weeks and now I came back for aggramar progression. Perhaps I have made a mistake
void pecan
I don't think flowi even logs into wow anymore.
strange python
feels
viscid helm
void pecan
Well nevermind then.
strange python
neat ty
trail scarab
is there any way to see how many times poison bomb procced during a bossfight? i can only find amount of hits
turbid harbor
on single target divide the hits by 6
trail scarab
ah ok ty
only got 4 procs on my last boss then ๐ฆ
isnt the log precentages kind of scewed since poison bomb is so rng?
strange python
if you mean the best logs have absurd PB yes
trail scarab
yes
strange python
well mostly*
trail scarab
i got 63% now for my ilvl with 1.571m dps on varimathas, guess its not only the poison bomb but
strange python
it only really skews the top 3-4% of parses though
yeah no go to wowanalyzer and plop in your logs
itll tell you what you're doing wrong* to an extent
trail scarab
Yeah it only says use toxic blade more often and that i wasted 10 combo points
i usually wait with toxic blade for kingsbane so it gets the most damage, should i just use it all the time?
strange python
literally just press it on CD
drifting cloud
yes never delay it more than 5sec
strange python
iirc not even worth waiting for last 9 sec of KB, like a 3k dps difference
trail scarab
ow ok
what do u do if vendetta is like 10-20sec and u have kingsbane/toxicblade ready? do u just use it or wait
strange python
depends on if its your last vendetta etc
spare cloud
Why never delay more than 5 secs?
trail scarab
seeing that i lost 4 possible toxic blades was not worth waiting for kingsbane
sharp viper
ffs we killed aggramar, completed the quest and now the door to him is closed and we try to open it by clearing skipped bosses
strange python
sorry i was mid boss pull @trail scarab basically use your cd's as they come up, unless its absolutely your last vendetta and then it is probably worth it to wait for them to align
spare cloud
If it's the last vendetta then you should maximise the damage inside of it
no probably ๐คท
trail scarab
no worries @copper saffronbory i will test on boss now and see if i notice any difference ๐ thanks for help
ops
spare cloud
rip not
strange python
no prob bob
spare cloud
You can follow a simple logic chain
strange python
my offpieces are high enough i have to play bleed without t20 and i am not a fan
spare cloud
Do I lose a cast of the spell? Yes -> use it earlier No -> try to get maximum damage inside of it
trail scarab
Yeah i guess
spare cloud
That applies for everything on rogue pretty much, except maybe vanish in some situations
tb -> get as many envenoms as possible inside of the window
kb -> keep envenom up during duration for maximum damage
as well as SoT in the last seconds
strange python
just play alac and have 98% uptime on everything
spare cloud
or that
strange python
with ring alac and some dicking around i can have like 56 crit+2bb
total meme but could be fun
copper saffron
RIP me
strange python
ye
just unlucky with highrolls on haste items
still sims higher than lower crit/mast stuff
the bleed set i normally run is 47 crit 10 haste 140 mast 11 vers. just a lot of useless stats :L
tough vale
I think this is the right forum for my question. If it's not I apologize.
I raid in a heroic guild and we now have antorus hc on farm so it takes between 1h 55min to 2h 10min depending on how well it goes on Coven.
I did earlier really good parses against ilvl%, I've gotten 96% on Varimathras for example. Since I did get 970 ilvl it has gone down very much. Today I got one boss with 76% ilvl performance but all other bosses are green or blue. I have CCjob on Aggramar and on Imonar I clear the bridge so that does matter.
My question is. What can I do to improve my dps? Clearly I'm not doing something other rogues are doing.
I will link this evening log and my armory.
Log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KVZ8DFvMxrBmjX6C
Armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/runetotem/borgeus
I have been looking at wowanalyzer, but it doesnโt give me that much answer.
Hope Ravenholdt can help me!
//Borgeus
void pecan
Holy wall of text.
lost horizon
fix your opener @tough vale
civic palm
Get lucky with Poison Bomb procs, cheese the bosses more, disregard mechanics and tunnel as much as you can, try to not have added work.
Also yeah that Vanish is an hour early.
lost horizon
you start in stealth, so as soon as you garrote from stealth you should have 5seconds of mantle buff to work with
civic palm
But that's not gonna be 20%
lost horizon
your SoT/2p uptime is pretty good
no obvious energy/CP waste either from the garothi pull i'm looking at
civic palm
Once your item level gets too high you will be competing with guilds that are moving through Mythic and have kill times/damage potentials that are just much higher than average.
tough vale
Garothi today was a good pull.
So.. in 970ilvl I'm competing with rogues that is still in burst phase, because the boss dies faster?
lost horizon
your kill time wasn't even THAT bad on garothi
civic palm
Not too much, but a lower kill time means more time in Bloodlust/etc.
As an example, imagine the difference between killing 2 adds on KIN at the same time and all three in the same amount of time, or less.
There's no cheese there's just a lot more damage from the entire raid.
tough vale
instead of splitting the raid in two, we split in three and kill all three adds?
civic palm
Not you specifically.
strange python
when we were doing guild HC's wed just do 2 groups and let a parser get a solo add
so you might be competing against that kind of stuff
civic palm
Yeah that falls under "cheese", I would say.
lost horizon
your vari pull is a good example of where you can do better
civic palm
Same on Heroic Argus, being the only guy on the PSN add is very nice.
lost horizon
dire spoke
@tough vale from your vari log I got this https://snag.gy/nLHP1w.jpg
you should clip your SoT and Env better, mostly for KB's sake
also you can add some more env finishers inside TB maybe
dire spoke
yeah ๐
civic palm
That would be... impressive or depressing.
tough vale
just a short question? SoT?
civic palm
Surge of Toxins
lost horizon
Surge of Toxins
tough vale
aah, of course.
lost horizon
5sec after every finisher of increased poison dmg
civic palm
With SoT down you are losing damage from these sources;
tough vale
That is a big part of my damage
civic palm
Kingsbane obviously only matters every 2 seconds, but DP is a bigger deal than some people think.
spare cloud
deadly poison does no damage 
tough vale
You have given me some tips, I have two more questions.
civic palm
I probably have two more answers?
spare cloud
Mizerok is a better bot than brobot
tough vale
Most of the time I use vanish+rupture for a strong long duration rupture with nightstalker. Is it better to use vanish+envenom at all times?
tough vale
so if I use prydaz + bracers(which I do for some fights when healers asks for it) I should vanish+rupture?
spare cloud
I that case you should sim if subterfuge doesnt sim better
civic palm
Stand in less things.
If the healers cannot heal normal damage that's their issue not yours.
spare cloud
because most of the time subterfuge pulls ahead of nighstalker
if you dont use shoulders
spare cloud
Since when?
dire spoke
funfact the APL does vanish > rupture with mantle, but that only happens if vanish, vend get ready at the exact moment of rupture's pandemic mark - so since we're not robots you just env
naive cypress
OR do i hold everything except TB till adds?
civic palm
Hold your CDs that will not come up for bots.
plain thistle
TB + KB on pull
naive cypress
TB + KB
civic palm
If you are using Boots you can Vendetta ye?
plain thistle
save vanish+vendetta for add
civic palm
or is it close?
plain thistle
hmm its close
drifting cloud
even with boots you dont vendetta afaik
plain thistle
with boots if you vendetta on pull, it will be back for 40% add
and probably wont last 20s
naive cypress
Finally killed imonar today lol
tough vale
last question from me. I sometimes use FoK on ST to get from 4 to 5 cp. Good idea or a waste of GVD?
GCD*
plain thistle
do you have PK traits?
spare cloud
@dire spoke with all ticks from ns rupture being inside of vendetta rupture should probably do more dmg
in the end
dire spoke
@spare cloud yeah I guess that's why the APL outsmarts a player
tough vale
@plain thistle I think I have 1 extra
spare cloud
well, thats why apl does it
dire spoke
I was checking the sample sequence of my sim once and it did vanish>rup
I was like what
spare cloud
was it midfight?
civic palm
I don't think using a PK relic in the place of something better so that you can FoK on 4 makes sense.
dire spoke
yeah
spare cloud
because that would
drifting cloud
you fok on 3cp with a pk relic
spare cloud
cross with apl vendatting with garotte on pull
plain thistle
yeah, you fok to get the 4th combo point
dire spoke
civic palm
@ 5/7? Mmm
spare cloud
Yes indeed
dire spoke
I thought at least 6/7
plain thistle
but with 4 combo points you just envenom/rupture
civic palm
Yeah
spare cloud
it's with 5/7 pk
tough vale
I have three master assasin relics, (total of 7), and I think I've gotten one PK from netherlight crucible
I need to doublecheck
tough vale
Thank you Ravenholdt! During the week I will work on musclememory and hopefully i will do better! ๐
civic palm
GL
dire spoke
spare cloud
did someone say muscle?
civic palm
I N V I S I B I L I T Y
dire spoke
dire spoke
I need to check my relics actually
plain thistle
๐
spare cloud
Zempai said 6/7
plain thistle
but his question was about FoK at 4 to get to 5, which is not a gain
spare cloud
which is why I just simmed it really quick
plain thistle
ohh
civic palm
mmm
onyx falcon
We FoK for ST right? ๐
civic palm
I doubt doing it at 3 is a gain either, just even.
plain thistle
yeah, I thought it was with 5/7, but wasnt completely sure too ๐
civic palm
Under certain conditions... yeah you FoK > _>
drifting cloud
I guess you can do it at 4 if youre gonna vanish right after
plain thistle
its a gain, otherwise wouldn't be there ๐ค
civic palm
It would be there if someone hardcoded it into the APL due to it not being a LOSS.
spare cloud
I'm not sure with the energy regen from vendetta if you are going to vanish
its probably worth to just mutilate anyways
for more dmg
strange python
things i do that im not sure about are like if i have to move out for something ill fan to get rid of energy and still get CP (if i cant mut due to running) but those are nitpicky nuanced thing
civic palm
Same as refreshing Rupture @ 3 not being a loss.
spare cloud
not sure though
dire spoke
you see how much CP the APL has after mut here https://gyazo.com/24229fa3555841fc4d379ab72bce7382
it says 60%
spare cloud
well you technically lose the energy cost
so you should only rupture at 3 cp if something more important is needed to be used
civic palm
Yeah like your PHATBURSTWINDOW.
dire spoke
I often end up rup at 3 because I couldn't clip SoT inside KB due to shitty CP generation
dire spoke
yeah hard spec
civic palm
There's nuance but the bad kind.
spare cloud
tbh assa is probably the specc that you need the think the most infight
in terms of planning cooldowns
civic palm
Yeah like fucking RTB kinda.
spare cloud
You add mut from main and shield hand together
and take the percentage from the casts
dire spoke
82 ?
dire spoke
give me a formula
spare cloud
You have 41 casts from mainhand
they are 68,3%
then you have 41 from shiled hand
53,7
since both make up 50% of the casts
you can just take the average of the %
dire spoke
oh and then just go mid percentage
spare cloud
Yeh
strange python
Hello Guys, i have realy hard problems to make damage @dense finchven. Can anyone check the logs and can help me?
supple hearth
if you post the logs here I'm sure you'll get some responses ^^
strange python
i cant tell if hes trolling but i kinda just play it by ear myself, even with my guild tanks and/or a dps tanking the 1 boss its still a shitshow of rng
just to get the disclaimers out of the way
you died on the fight and it was a wipe
vendetta missed 2 casts, tb miss 4 kb missed 3 and you had 40% downtime
this was on your longest wipe*
even on the last one, you've missed kb/tb's and missed prepot
otherwise you're a melee on M coven it sucks
sage turtle
Hey man guys! If any of you know a really good WA for Assassin Rogue with like all of it, could you plz PM a link to me.. Been trying so many now :S
strange python
err wat
marble hemlock
it looks like, most of the time, the bosses arent tanked close enough to each other for you to multidot properly
so at that point it just comes down to fucking up your singeltarget rotiation like Notbory said
ideally you want your tanks, or rather your dps whos tanking the shadow-grill to tank her close enough (but not too close obviously) for you to be able to hit both of them with fok, and rupture both of them continuously
civic palm
Yeah you might have to take a step for FoK if they're not TIGHT.
marble hemlock
i know plenty of guilds simply dont give a shit about it though and just tank them apart and let their ranged-dps do the heavy lifting dps wise, if thats the case with your guild, just focus on getting your singletarget rotation straight and maybe delay CDs a teensy bit if youre still having trouble with golganneth/amanthul adds
civic palm
Yeah =\
dire spoke
anyone with WL alt?
strange python
like in his guild or in this disc lmao
dire spoke
it was meant for offtopic actually, sorry but yeah meant if anyone plays aff wl here
void pecan
I do but suck at it.
strange python
iโve got one at 970 ish , iโll move to offtppic
slate harness
hey quick question for aoe rotation i understand you just spam fan and rupture but do you weave toxic blade ever/envenom?
plain thistle
no, you dont spam rupture
plain thistle
with t21 4p you dont need to use that much rupture, it will depend on number of targets
slate harness
alright
slate harness
alright
plain thistle
with T20 2p you can garrote as well, but you shouldnt use T20 2p for Aoe xD
slate harness
fair enough
unkempt frost
hello there
im a bit confused of how should i use the fan of knives cloak legendary
should i add to my rotation only at 30 ? any time past 10 or ?
rugged torrent
bring back crimson tempest ๐คฃ
surreal solar
Why do we want legs over gloves from antorus? legs dont have any mastery and aggramars legs have both big stats, the gloves at least have mastery
civic palm
Gloves have Haste.
unkempt frost
its bc i have sephuz
crucible ring
raven hold tring
and the cloak
my best two legendaries would be ravenholdt and the cloak ?
unkempt frost
i had them before and i think it was better just bc i didnt had to change the rotation
solid nova
What did your sim comparison say
Use the facts with the tools available, not feelycraft
strange python
Hi guys. Can anyone confirm that bracers actually boost envenom damage sub 30% ?
civic palm
What do the bracers say?
jolly heart
unkempt frost
the difference in sim was marginal from 1.12 M dps to 1.07
unkempt frost
yeah i wondered if it was all nature dmg u did or just teh damage over time poison
mhmm
ill use weak auras + a very loud noise for the 29+ stacks
i think it also is influenced by my spare ring and cloak
my ring is a tad better
safe matrix
Just farm better legendaries tbh
civic palm
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM
plain thistle
yup, bracer doesn't buff envenom damage
civic palm
aka ENV is NATURE damage and not POISON.
plain thistle
@strange python
civic palm
O _O
civic palm
This would be an issue if the bracers increased NATURE damage and not POISON damage.
Though there are some...
plain thistle
but for instance, our mastery is worded as "Increases the damage done by your poisons by X%" and does in fact, increase our nature(envenom) damage
dire spoke
poison damage == nature damage == magic damage
inconsistences along the way.
plain thistle
yup
safe matrix
I mean tbh it's kinda misleading
civic palm
A little.
plain thistle
thats what they did a couple days ago, changing the wording from master poisoner
civic palm
Like.
This
makes no sense.
So much so that they changed it in BFA.
So that's ๐
unkempt frost
ye abut farming legendaries isnt that easy atm
civic palm
Surge states POISON damage.
unkempt frost
any suggestions besides the craftablรงes which take some time on its own ?
civic palm
Do the content and hope.
safe matrix
Invasion points
dire spoke
still only 1 upvote on wowhead 
https://snag.gy/vQsijg.jpg
plain thistle
give me the link
civic palm
Yeah well stop using Wowhead.
plain thistle
ill upvote for your
civic palm
and start using AMR's whitelists :3
safe matrix
Did you come here to just beg for upvotes?
plain thistle
๐
dire spoke
yes, also I post my twitch links every day and ask for donations
midnight latch
ye that sounds like him 
dire spoke
void pecan
rip
plain thistle
wow, rip channel
naive cypress
Ok, i have been reading some of the conversation from earlier today. And if what i think i understood is correct, i need to fix my playstyle
So, Env does not count as a Poison and does not directly buff KB dmg, other than the applicable poison chance and SoT proc?
And Bracers does therefore not buff env dmg
So i should only clip SoT during KB, and try too pool for more concise 3 Env casts during TB?
And, one last thing. Is it better, except for opener. To use TB for last 9 sec of KB rather than right before? Unless i hold TB for more than 5 sec?
Yeah, but when they line up. Should i use them at the same time ish, or hold TB for last 9 sec of KB?
Or does it not matter?
dire spoke
as an example if you hold it 4x 5 seconds it's 20s and maybe getting another TB or not - that's the only issue with it
naive cypress
Thats true
Hmmmm. Why is this spec so complex...
I cant wrap my head around it
It is... When you have been playing SnD
For the last 2 mnths
Press SS then Run Through
What do i have to consider with vendetta windows?
Is it anything special?
dire spoke
have your cooldowns+vanish inside it
naive cypress
Do i like, hold vendetta?
Vendetta lasts for 20?
I never use Vanish outside vendetta unless boss is at 5%
plush jetty
Mythic Varimatharis question. Can a sin rogue get all of the marked preys with Shadowstep having a 30s cd?
dire spoke
@plush jetty yes
plush jetty
Awesome, thank you @dire spoke
Our normal sub rogue who does it went on vacation and I'm lazy so was curious if I had to respec.
dire spoke
keep in mind that you can get debuff aswell and need to call freedom to run out
dire spoke
did you like, read the boss guide/abilities or something?
plush jetty
I've just never had to call for freedom on the boss before.
rapid hound
๐ค
steep obsidian
that is a heroic mechanic
drifting cloud
whats hes saying is if you start on the left for example
plush jetty
no it's in mythic too.
drifting cloud
the left plagues sometimes overlap same time as youre soaking prey
rapid hound
Either call freedom or just sstep on the off tank escorting peoples
plush jetty
I'm just confused by asking for freedom while taking marked prey knockbacks
dusty roost
@plush jetty if you get necrotic at the same time marked prey is going out, you'll have an extremely tight window in trying to do both, in all likelihood you'll mess it up
drifting cloud
so you can get it 1s before youre supposed to soak so its a little bit harder
to get to the spot
plush jetty
@dusty roost Ohh okay, that makes sense.
dusty roost
@plush jetty for my kill i covered all unless i got necrotic, then i would call for the other rogue or DH to cover the marked prey
probably happened twice in about 50 attempts
rapid hound
Happens to me all the time, u just shadow step on your off tank
plush jetty
Can warriors charge back in with it? since our DH is not good.
steep obsidian
this reminds me of the time 100 pulls into star augur and close to a kill where we bitched at a warrior because we wanted him to drop the pools of crap "in the circles" so the next pull he went to the nipple marker on the map and covered it in crap ๐คฆ
mebbe i being mean
plush jetty
ouch
steep obsidian
๐
plush jetty
My guild's perception of the other rogue is low so they basically force him to do all the grunt work like this... it'll be the first raid he's missed in like 9 months.
steep obsidian
so low?
plush jetty
I just came started mythic raiding again after 8+ years like 2 months ago
plush jetty
so he's been doing it all since this will be my second varimatharis kill
steep obsidian
that is a good thing
plush jetty
I came back and they started the mythic argus push
so I haven't been doing shit for 6 of those weeks
dire spoke
good time to learn the spec then before entering mythic
and sorry for missing some details in my expl before
plush jetty
Yeah just never had to freedom on heroic or the one mythic kill i've done. that's why it was a little confusing
dire spoke
WQs with hunger of the pack is so fun 
it's like having the sprint talent back
burnt tundra
Hey guys how accurate is the wowanalyzer for sin rogue? asking for a guildie
gaunt moat
not at all
burnt tundra
Thanks ๐
civic palm
Do you know who is maintaining it off the top of your head Notter?
gaunt moat
No idea
civic palm
Wasn't sure if there were author/contributors listed on the website, all I remember is it not being maintained.
warm parcel
There isnt a maintainer on it