he doesnt like you very much
#assassination
plain thistle
plain thistle
civic palm
Zembandoned.
keen inlet
spare cloud
@dire spoke 
manic vigil
spare cloud
mortal orbit
I'm going to challenge jose to a sword duel on the open streets of texas for this crime
fast nacelle
jovial kite
seems like a stable and nice individual
jolly dawn
I've read the guide and says mostly useful in M+
But on M+ trash, is it good to run cloak than anything else? or only good when u can get stacks during rp/downtime then procing with high stacks
fervent beacon
I just run mantle/bracers as sin
prisma gull
What did you do voidbutt? I need to know who's in the right
fervent beacon
Oh I did nothing.
wise frigate
I still don't get what he's saying.
Other than saying you can't support your girlfriend.
That's my interpretation of it.
I think he's saying something like "how could you talk shit when you can't even support your own gf"
At least for the second half.
First half is I don't even know. Fuck you in style on a stream you fucktard?
Which makes 0 sense to me.
jovial kite
he says fuck you in style on stream you fucktard, cant even support your gf took a shit?
he was prolly streaming the breakdown of the guild
wise frigate
Ahh. See in the context of a stream I guess that makes sense?
zealous dew
wiperino
prisma gull
I thought it's about taking loot then being nonchalant about guild breaking down..
Or ninjaing the gbank?
wise frigate
Hm. That is also possible. Didn't consider that angle.
zealous dew
lul some of those DHT wiperino were worse than pugs i see
rain pewter
hi @jovial kite
midnight latch
@rain pewter Imposter
rain pewter
never
jovial kite
@rain pewter henlo fren 👋🏿
rain pewter
are we brothers now?
quick pulsar
hmm, can anyone tell which bosses drop best relics for assa?
steep obsidian
if you are after master assass relics votw is your best bang for your buck
shadow and iron there
quick pulsar
hmm, I'm doing poison variation
so iirc ma not that high on weight
also I meant Antorus bosses 😄
doesn't seem like too many good ones in raid
zealous dew
- Antoran High Command Blood MALCH Svirax's Grim Trophy
- Portal Keeper Asabel Iron MALCH Fel-Engraved Handbell
Attumen Shadow MALCH Dirge of the Hunted
vast thicket
anyone been trying helmet/shoulders recently?
jovial kite
yes
its generally not optimal
but it might be better for some builds, depending on the offpieces
wise frigate
Lower Kara also has a Shadow MAlch IIRC.
Oh Shanty Town already mentioned it.
And you're Shanty Town. I read good on no sleep.
quick pulsar
@zealous dew ty!
dusty palm
I know this is a rogue channel, but I have a monk question when it comes to the NLC
refractive shell as seen in https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/mistweaver-monk-pve-healing-netherlight-crucible-relic-paths
is labled as the number one talent
I have the opportunity to get that twice with two relics, does that give me twice the chance to get refractive shell?
marble hemlock
no, it just doubles the amount of absorb granted
dusty palm
so should I shoot for it? or go for a different tier upgrade
rancid bobcat
Ask monk discord 
supple hearth
@dusty palm
https://discord.gg/83bJX5
You're welcome
zealous dew
Using Vanish after a Poison Bomb consumes the Nightstalker buff and pulls you out of Vanish/Stealth.
lolz
gaunt moat
didn't know bugs were amusing you so much
quick ice
There goes my elite vanish PB strategy
gaunt moat
well it's not something that will really happen to you, cause you usually don't vanish right after a finisher, you tend to pool energy
zealous dew
in m+ it is 😃
slate tulip
1st pb need to damn proc :/
dusky tiger
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
strange python
reading through a pins but cant find the current state of rogues in alpha testing, wheres a good place to go that has that
slate tulip
i would like only to know if pb is still in bfa if yes i wont play rog
strange python
in the last talent build released
drifting cloud
fallow estuary
If the Mob is <30% and you have mantle/bracers | Do you vanish rupture or vanish envenom?
(nightstalker)
steep obsidian
pb also ticks for 2 secs instead of 3 on alpha
guide says vanish env
if you want to know why its because you want to always fit the damage into the crit window of mantle rather then 1/5th of it or at least thats part of it
jovial kite
@spare cloud mythic tomb now
stiff frost
so has anyone been playing assassin in alpha ?
gaunt moat
a lot of people
steep obsidian
i have a bit
prisma gull
I love it when my echo of gorshalac procs 😄
royal forge
someone can link me a complete and very nice assassiantion weakauras please
void pecan
prisma gull
wise frigate
"best" is subjective.
prisma gull
I was gonna go on there anyways, gonna try that instead of my TMW
gaunt moat
@royal forge i dunno know how's his looks. but i suggest trying both and see what you like best.
also, you can always mix & match.
void pecan
I say it with love.
strange python
yeah trying them is as simple as a few clicks
if you dont like it them bam it's gone
royal forge
@gaunt moat alright, i'm start using these wa for now, I'm just not accustomed to using
@gaunt moat what about addon aethysrotattion? it is good? or or is it silly
void pecan
to get a base level knowledge of sin, it's okay
but
I'd just practice from looking at the guide
then on a dummy obv.
crimson knoll
I guess it depends on how serious you are about playing a rogue
If it’s just an alt you want to try out, aethys is fine.
royal forge
I also always try to get the rotation by myself, first time I'm looking for addons and WA
void pecan
WA is to keep track of bleeds and poisons, not tell you when to push buttons
that comes with practice.
gaunt moat
@royal forge Aethy's addon can be useful for getting the hang of the spec.
it works by suggesting abilities based on the APL (what simC uses to simulate abilities)
ultimately, it's not recommended to use as the only basis for how to play.
ashen ibex
I need a wa for the shoulder ledendary
gaunt moat
@ashen ibex
lone junco
pretty sure Aethys is disabled for sin anyway
manic vigil
I agree and it actually confused me more instead of actually helping back when I started rogue again (as sub but alas). But some people like that kind of stuff. My buddy plays his feral with a rotation indicating WA and he parses orange all the time. To him it just frees up some of his concentration for other things - or so he says 🤷
royal forge
Sorry, my innocence, I do not speak English very well, but what pins? 🤔
on raven web?
gaunt moat
@royal forge please read this
http://www.ravenholdt.net/class-discords-the-basics/
peak jungle
Is having one +200 agi gem worth it? Or does 200 mastery outweigh it?
void pecan
what do your stat weights say?
peak jungle
virtually the same
crimson knoll
Sim it? Mastery > all else for poison
royal forge
@gaunt moat thx man again... 😄 S2
peak jungle
Thanks
crimson knoll
Plus, it should eventually overtake it
royal forge
guys, one question, what is best, use evenom with 4 combo points, or use poisoned knife to complete 5?
strange python
envenom at 4, idk where you heard that, but never ever press poison knife unless out of range 😛
undone nacelle
I just realized I been using 945 eye with socket over my 960 fang on lots of antorus fights
For fights like hc/portal/coven/kin would fang be better?
undone nacelle
Well yeah as you normally would for those fights
But I feel like it can be difficult to quantify how often it’s contributing
I should just check logs for 10 stack buff uptime
mossy light
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
dark sable
Is ilvl for relics better than traits? I have gushing wound/secure in the light/master alchemist at 940, and another relic at 945 w/ poison knives/master of shadows/master alchemist. I assume the 940 is better because of rupture trait?
supple hearth
@dark sable you would have to sim to see
dark sable
So I need the crucible weight addon?
supple hearth
You don't need it but it's very helpful imo
dark sable
ty ty.
strange python
Does anybody have tips for AOE fights?
prisma gull
894, no leggos, lets go mage tower! 😄
supple hearth
@strange python single target harder and pray for 
strange python
alright thanks
onyx falcon
- much like how we should all do ST CP generation, FoK harder
supple hearth
Sorry that was half sarcasm
grim canopy
wait for bfa i saw video some dudes poisin bomb for days
supple hearth
Because the proc is almost doubled
onyx falcon
its shortened by 1 sec
grim canopy
but still seems more reliable when u need right rather than when every mob is dead and 1 left
onyx falcon
dunno what the % of AP from now to BFA difference is though atm
supple hearth
It says on the tooltip. Iirc it was pretty much double whatever we have now
onyx falcon
havent looked too much into BfA stuff yet so wasnt sure so didnt wanna say anything specific
i just know its down from 3s to 2 s
n went to 5% per CP
plucky hornet
wasn't it 4% per cp ?
plucky hornet
and I could swear I read about a month back that vanish was going to 45 sec cd
but by recent alpha footages the thing is still 2 min
north phoenix
I just got the aoe ring as my first leggo. Is this character a loss?
plucky hornet
what do you mean ? are you implying that your legion mythic progression career is going to be gimped by you getting your first bad legendary just 4 months before the next expansion ?
plucky hornet
yes, we'r the hold hands and giving hugs kinda chat , here's a friendly pat on the back
north phoenix
Thanks boo
lost horizon
There's pretty good catchup via the essences now
echo estuary
holding hands and kumbaya, just like in kindergarten. sadly a prominent figure by the name Tom is no longer with us. As he was banished for misbehaviour.
lost horizon
F to pay respects
calm grail
Was he?
void pecan
Banned again?
zealous dew
ded cennel
plucky hornet
back in 4 months
ressurection that is
Oh no, w8 , it's going to be 3 months and 3 weeks until everyone and their grandma are going to be repeating like parrots - "what is the best spec"
plucky hornet
nah, just legion, every patch with some changes there's the same thing
calm grail
TB was the toxic blade era
plucky hornet
literarly unbearable for about a month until everyone is sure they are playing an optimal spec for their questing purposes and low m+
ah , that , yes I remember that
slate tulip
my pb on aggramar m do like 5% dmg :/
tranquil birch
I had 3% on our kill... I really wanna make that parse go away lol
lost horizon
I'm in the same boat, extending for argus though and idk if my raid will ever rekill tbh
slate tulip
i hate my life :/
lost horizon
LOL that's a bit much my dude
lost horizon
5% isn't even that low, should still be above 50, shouldn't be a big deal
sharp viper
hell yeah, orange parse on aggramar thanks to skillbomb pulling through in phase 3...
spare wigeon
Hey i'm new to the discord server. Im using the shoulder lego and the feet one but i just got the wrist aswell (i only have the shoulders, feet and wrists as legendarys) which combo should i use?
void pecan
Sim yoooooooo self.
void pecan
oh shit it's an emote.
manic vigil
gaunt moat
civic palm
Good, we have three months to get these shitty emotes outta here :3
vernal adder
void pecan
Excuse me, that last word sir?
jovial kite
midnight latch
vestal wren
fallen sandal
hi guys, i'd like to know, on the opener w/o shoudlers, should i use rupture or envenom
plain thistle
without shoulder? you apply rupture first
fallen sandal
i mean when i get out of vanish
plain thistle
but without shoulder your opener change a lot depending on crits
ohh, with subterfuge= garrote and with NS = rupture
dire spoke
this, for more details check the SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE
fallen sandal
i play ns
plain thistle
try simming talent compare, maybe subterfuge is better 😛
void pecan
"friend"
strange python
when should use fan of knives? 2 or 3 targets ?
lone junco
@strange python depends on crit rate.
Standard builds fok at 2. very high crit will mut at 2.
strange python
im asking cause at the moment i feel taht mutilate with 2 targets is more beneficial
and fan of knives with 3+
lone junco
you can modify apl to show this. but the normal is Exang muts on 2. Poison foks on 2. all fok at 3
would also apply for the EP crit builds.
aka 45% crit, or 70% mut crit range.
strange python
i see ! thanks i think i will do some tests around it and see cause my crit is only at 27%
lone junco
if you have any extra pk relics you would fok in ST at >=3 cps as well.
27/185 ish or more, would very very likely fok at 2
due to the mastery component of PK and DP hits.
and a crit differential between fok at mut
strange python
i will check it out ! Thanks for the asnwers @lone junco
heavy plover
@void pecan https://giphy.com/gifs/jXD7kFLwudbBC
void pecan
Bless you
midnight latch
sharp viper
small osprey
civic palm
ezpz
dawn fiber
DO I ENVENOM ON 4CP?
drifting cloud
yes
plain thistle
ofc
spare cloud
plain thistle
fast nacelle
hard gust
hey what would be a better aoe alternative for m+, shoulders + cloak or shoulders + kj
hard gust
is sin really that reliant on pb
calm grail
No.
hard gust
that gear doesnt make a big difference?
calm grail
M+ Pbombs gonna make or break your AoE
hard gust
i also have cinidaria
calm grail
But for raiding even with mediocre pbombs you'll do fine
hard gust
which would combo well with shoulders i suppose
so there's not outstanding aoe legendary?
in m+
hard gust
that's disappointing
hard gust
mastery pogchamp
dire spoke
is there even a class/spec where mastery is bad?
fervent beacon
And outlaw
rigid lagoon
mastery is bad for shadow [riest
fervent beacon
But they're changing mastery for survival to increase ability damage.
rigid lagoon
3rd by a long way i count that as bad
plain thistle
yeah, they changed shadow priest mastery too
fervent beacon
Mastery is still the worst for outlaw tho.
dire spoke
makes no sense tbh
rigid lagoon
frost mage mastery is horrible
dire spoke
*no sense in terms of design around the spec's mastery, not the actual math
I lost track a while ago
rigid lagoon
hard for me to give good counter examples when you keep moving the target
dire spoke
I guess that's why I like the idea around sin or say frost dk
it just makes sense that it buffs the core part of the spec
grim canopy
on Alpha which spec is the best aoe
my pb dont proc and this tank doing way more aoe dmg unacceptable
restive grove
BRO why do the worst players get the best gear like what the fuck
And they wanna remove masterloot on top of that
spare cloud
???
void pecan
I'm guessing a pug or his raid, someone "Worse than him" got better gear then he did.
Sad.
or rather.
plain thistle
🤷
keen inlet
BUT BRO
plain thistle
supple hearth
Just sacrifice more goats tbh
supple hearth
Just stop doing 2.2 ez
grim canopy
anyone have logs from bfa
supple hearth
🤔
dire spoke
@gusty kestrel has logs
supple hearth
Time traveling...
lone junco
@gusty kestrel barf
is there still a bb mechanic?
looks like no
18mut
rip EP for the first year.
lol. tb at 43% crit. everything else 23
"double dose"
i saw that in the notes. hope it scales. will fall into the ep uptimes.
but they removed anti so bleh.
I always liked 10cps.
too bad fok doesnt generate cps like Storm
green spec loss of synergy is going to suck.
green gear that is.
grats 18 crit 7 haste 32 mastery
that 75 % mut crit is what makes exang dance now.
and 2p4p.
get fucked nerds, back to suck
better than id expect
RIP vendetta
lol env
trim dirge
when has rogue not felt bad at the beginning of an expac
trim dirge
oof
lone junco
wait. is meta 3 min?
spare cloud
@jovial kite I'm playing a working exhaust deck right now
lone junco
spare cloud
oops
wrong chat, excuste me
gonna leave it here so i dont have to ping him twice
sorry
supple hearth
🔨
willow mulch
hey all, question about poison build.
the guide states "• Use Vanish to apply rupture as often as possible if specced Nightstalker."
so the question is. is nightstalker the correct choice and does the statement above hold true? i was under the impression that you vanish at 4+cp then envemon> mutilate > envenom >mutilate <envenom while your dots are already applied.
spare cloud
Question is answered by guide.
hazy iron
depends whether you're using shoulders or not
willow mulch
i am and i just wanted to make sure nightstalker is the correct spec choice.
gaunt moat
this is something wEak was telling me the other day
gaunt moat
that the guides makes people believe there is only one "correct" choice
spare cloud
so we can't tell whats best for your character specifically
gaunt moat
i need to rewrite some of it for BFA to change that mindset
spare cloud
Just leave it like that and say its the new bfa guide 🤷
willow mulch
kk ill sim all 3, just wanted a clear picture at what im going for. so say that nightstalker sims lower. then do i just envemon off of my vanish?
spare cloud
If nightstalker sims lower
and you play subterfuge
then you play the opener differently
gaunt moat
with subterfuge you'd garrote out of stealth...
gaunt moat
guide is pretty clear about that frawsty
spare cloud
but tbh I've never seen a character that uses shoulders
which sims higher with subterfuge
basically with subterfuge you use vanish to refresh garotte while it is barely within pandemic window
and then you let it run out completely because it snapshots
willow mulch
oh that was my second question. what is the pandemic window on a 4 cp rapture if refreshing with 5cp
lone junco
The rapture is forever.
willow mulch
oo notter. i was even using the search tool just didnt think to check the faq section
gaunt moat
@willow mulch pandemic time is 30% of duration, you can calculate that
spare cloud
I think he knows that
spare cloud
the question was if it depends on the spell it is applied on or on the applied spell
wat
why would you ask that question then
😕
gaunt moat
but @willow mulch
id doesn't matter than much being so accurate about pandemic
even if you use rupture 1-2 seconds before... not the end of the world here
sometimes can even be better
willow mulch
i was under the habit of refreshing at 8 seconds. gunna have to put my math hat on
spare cloud
perfect rupture refreshes are not what you are looking for most of the time
since there is more important stuff going on
gaunt moat
no that's my point, you don't need to do the math
spare cloud
tbh I don't even know the exact pandemic windows
willow mulch
kk. just trying to learn all the ins and outs. switching to snd for progression and i want to maximize.
spare cloud
because they dont matter since your refreshes are "forced" most of the time anyways
Like for example if you have 10 seconds left but a kingsbane is coming up in 5 seconds
willow mulch
seems then the most important gains are stacking the KB ticks and watnot? im going to have to read the guide more in depth
spare cloud
you want to refresh it anyways
to get another envenom to have it while kingsbane is up
dire spoke
@gaunt moat if you only read the guide that may be correct, yes - you could highlight that there are multiple choices. But additionally looking at herodamage should give you the hint that you're free to test stuff around your toon (but the build buttons should be highlighted better there aswell, it's shitty gray in gray and bad design choice)
spare cloud
and herodamage is linked on ravenholdt as well
so
you can find the most recent builds anyways
I think a beginners guide to simming would be helpful though (idk if there is already such a thing linked to the website)
dire spoke
If you know that there are builds it's not hard to look for builds
spare cloud
then maybe you should tell people that there are multiple builds
gaunt moat
@dire spoke you can leave aethys a message about that in #tc-research (maybe construct the wording a bit different though :P)
spare cloud
which the guide says like 3 times
gaunt moat
Also the hard part for me with how i want to rewrite
is that people want a simple "this is the correct choice" answer
wEak is really against giving that answer
i think that it's fine to give such an answer, but just be clear about it not being the "only correct" answer
spare cloud
yeh but if you give one such answer then no matter how you package it the vast majority will think that is the only answer
dire spoke
I actually asked if they need help for BfA on frontend development, but as a founder why would you let more people in the team
gaunt moat
there's many people on herodamge's team
gaunt moat
i dunno if they need extra help, but you can always ask, maybe they do
gaunt moat
you can ask aethys or mystler
dire spoke
but more like programmers, it's a typical site. All gray, rounded borders, some cool javascript or css snippets they found and no real text formatting what so ever
😄
it's what a programmer would give me and say, make it more pretty pls
gaunt moat
yeah, they are focused more on functionality
gaunt moat
like, he mostly worked on making it load faster etc.
dire spoke
sure
gaunt moat
i9 is not realesed yet
spare cloud
🤷
dire spoke
hmmmmmm
gaunt moat
my bad. yes he got an i9-7980xe
spare cloud
worth
gaunt moat
gotta pump those sims
dire spoke
@jovial kite I need more of your runs https://snag.gy/Eje9vO.jpg
stark heart
almost 2.3M 
gaunt moat
lorentz flexing
humble crane
just got a 970 sullied panth, put me much closer to you @stark heart
stark heart
If only I had mythic avatar shoulders
viscid helm
Maybe u should run ToS
stark heart
I did. On mage tho
viscid helm
Exactly
strange python
you simming at 0 pantheon or what
stark heart
Yes
strange python
whats your mastery at then
simming higher than me with fair chunk lower ilvl, if 969 is accurate
stark heart
I am not near pc now to look up mastery
jovial kite
@stark heart
strange python
another bleedyboi
still running cloak/hands because i cant get a t20 shoulder thats better than my 985 offpiece
stark heart
stark heart
@strange python 179.4%
strange python
doesnt even make sense then
warm parcel
Why not
shrewd night
warm parcel
Lorentz is just a good player 👌
viscid helm
shrewd night
Bleedyboi
warm parcel
I mean look at that fuckers rings
shrewd night
I wanted two things out of last nights raid
Shoulders from first boss for transmog
Or sullied ring
Guess what I got
Nada 😠
quick ice
I was gonna guess haste crap
jovial kite
@shrewd night bad player obv 🤷
shrewd night
warm parcel
I mean good rogues are mages anyway
jovial kite
stark heart
of course I am a good player, hello
jovial kite
shrewd night
He has angery avatar, ofc he gud
jovial kite
For those with no alpha
wise frigate
Too close to home for me Slagg.
Every single member of my guild's raid team has Alpha. Except me.
wise frigate
I'm just not good enough apparently.
shrewd night
Who cares about alpha anyways, beta is where its at
wise frigate
I just want something else to do. I guess I could always play Endless Sky some more.
wise frigate
Honestly at this point it's more about the principle of the matter.
It's like getting last picked for the kickball team again.
viscid helm
Thats what you get for being casual
shrewd night
And bad, lets not forget that everyone after top3 are baddies who should all public log
jovial kite
wise frigate
That's a polite way to spell bad.
jovial kite
truth flowi
wise frigate
Can confirm though, am bad.
fast nacelle
wise frigate
I'm just happy to have some mythic under my belt again. A month ago I didn't expect to be 7/11.
shrewd night
Ah, right where its all beginning!
wise frigate
Eyup. The fun has yet to even start.
shrewd night
Whatchu doing first? Vari or Coven?
wise frigate
Vari. We were supposed to pull him on Thursday but we had too many absences due to issues IE people quitting recently, people being out of town/busy. Should be good tonight though. We'll see if we down it though.
The guild is 8/11 but a lot of the people who were present for the kill quit WoW/the guild since then. So it's basically like a first kill for us and me.
shrewd night
Youre a dead channel
solid nova
Rules
shrewd night
Better become outlaw so we can ignore all rules
viscid helm
Scuffed discord
stray inlet
hello, are the two AoE trinkets in Antorus worth switching for?
shrewd night
For what
stray inlet
for AoE
shrewd night
For a hot date, bring whatever has the highest itemlevel to compensate.
For aoe, depends on what you define as aoe.
Although, sim yourself. Maybe it has the answer. 🤷
jovial kite
stray inlet
do you switch trinkets for High Command or Eonar?
just geared a rogue and going to do H on Tues, idk if im justified on rolling Fab/Legacy and tell the guild im rolling for AOE
prisma gull
Anyone got tips for sin mage tower without any leggos and <1m dps? :)
kindred forge
Blind shield
kindred forge
When she start casting to transform herself in to monster just blind her
shrewd night
Thats not the shield tho
kindred forge
Can't remember the spell
Ah you mean the shield on that beard guy?
It was so long ago
shrewd night
Indeed
sand whale
I remember it took so long for me because lack of gear and only had just enough dps to pop the shield lol
sand whale
haha
warm parcel
Just using aoe trinks on ahc is a waste
stray inlet
@shrewd night thanks for the info about Legacy, should've known with the haste it has
shrewd night
Pins has trinket values for all kinds of targets
So have a look in there if you are unsure
@stray inlet
shrewd night
📌 📌 📌 📌 📌
jovial kite
🤣
spare cloud
vestal wren
why not use
spare cloud
fast nacelle
spare cloud
jovial kite
vapid moth
So whats all this FoK business about?
prime crater
can someone give me crucible weights? for addon
vapid moth
Lol
prime crater
ty. raidbots is ok for that simulation?@jovial kite
vapid moth
Yes
smoky tulip
So Simbiote ring on prog for Argus is a thing?
vapid moth
Simbiote ring?
smoky tulip
sorry waist
vapid moth
I dunno. The logic behind that is you get to the stuff you have trouble with faster.
vapid moth
Of course
smoky tulip
Which means bracers will outshine?
vapid moth
Yup
shrewd night
Like
Belt for argus
...Why
The whole logic behind 'well, we get to the phase we struggle with faster' but you also fuck up the timings for when you actually want to progress
🤷
marble hemlock
the logic could be "were currently not hitting the transition the way we want consistently, so im going to use this legendary to make it more consistent so we can progress in another phase, and our dps will eventually improve in in the previous one enough that i can switch it out again later"
jovial kite
scuffed logic
steep obsidian
one person with belt is within the rng of procs and rng tbh
or a few even
¯_(ツ)_/¯
marble hemlock
like, once the strategy is down and its just about execution, do you want to have to progress that phase 100 times before you start learning the next one, or do you want to get a sense what the next one is like sooner?
shrewd night
Id fucking like to get to the phase consistently without fucking myself over tbh
marble hemlock
people learn at different rates, some need 5 pulls, others 50, to play a phase cleanly enough to reach 90-100% of their dps potential
shrewd night
'Ill just use my pot now instead of later so we can hit that phase', 'we can just pop hero now so we can get used to that next phase'
bwahaha
Fuck me
marble hemlock
by switching in belt on argus, for example, you then get to emulate that improvement sooner and can continue progressing into another phase
steep obsidian
marble hemlock
which immediately leads to the question, do you want those people to be confronted with another phase already when they cannot reach their full dps potential in the first one yet
which your raid/guildlead ultimately has to decide on
jovial kite
personally i never understood running different legendaries for the sole purpose of progressing a phase i wont be using those legendaries later on
marble hemlock
i played belt on fallen avatar progress when we were just triggering p2 asap
so i could stand in chaos and heal myself up through it and wouldnt have to move out 😄
zealous dew
seliathan me needs your halp
lost horizon
Belt on argus makes sense mostly for deaths tbh
shrewd night
lost horizon
Can still meet DPS check w/dumb deaths
steep obsidian
I'd do belt on aggramar prog to be honest seeings you wipe until people figure out transition
zealous dew
apart from gutripper which trait should i pick for m+
lost horizon
Belt makes it more consistent
marble hemlock
belt on p1 argus makes sense if you want to hit the transition before the 4th gaze but your dps arent comfortable enough yet to pull it off, while you want to start progress on p2 for the people that are
lost horizon
Yeah that's where I'm at
shrewd night
Throw uncomfortable dps into a new phase before they are comfortable
lost horizon
Hit p3 only a few times
marble hemlock
sure, you can progress p2 with a fucked up transition, but do you really want to?
yeah @shrewd night , thats something your raid/guild has to decide
steep obsidian
i have seen a lot of guilds struggle to be consistent on arg
marble hemlock
on the other hand you have people who are quicker to learn who will get bored and annoyed if they cant progress into another phase becuase the same ~5people need more time to figure p1 out
marble hemlock
and then you realize that by starting p2 sooner, you will run into the same issue, only with an even bigger gap etc. etc.
down the rabbit hole you go 😄
lost horizon
P2 is way easier than p1 though
shrewd night
If you have people who arent willing to progress for the sake of the guild rather than their own learning curve, there are worse issues than steep learning curves for some people tbh
But thats just my opinion
marble hemlock
well, in my opinion there is little reason to start progressing p3 when you have 1 or even 2 additional gazes in p1/p2
jovial kite
if you die in p1. belt isnt your only problem
marble hemlock
the progress that you will be looking at in p3 is going to be severely handicapped because of it
jovial kite
if you switch to belt for survivability then something is seriously wrong
shrewd night
They do it for the deeps slagg
lost horizon
Definitely not survivability
lost horizon
90% is like
jovial kite
thats even more scuffed
lost horizon
First cone at best
marble hemlock
so you will want to make sure you dont get these gazes, ideally without having to wait 200 pulls for everyone to be able to bring their a-game with like a 95% success rate, so legendaries might be an option for you to ensure smoother transitions, knowing that that success rate will eventually improve
marble hemlock
by that time youre deep into p3, people can switch to execute legendaries/talents, and the loss of dps in the previous phases wont matter anymore because you can hit the transition without them now
shrewd night
and the loss of dps in the previous phases wont matter anymore because you can hit the transition without them now
At different timings, which is essential for arg0s
marble hemlock
it makes sense to me that youd sometimes "cheat" to get past a hard phase in order to safely and consistently be able to progress the one that comes after
jovial kite
i think thats just baseline bad
shrewd night
I know we are arguing in circles, but to me thats just pushing the problem further down the road
lost horizon
I mean you just need to get p3 at ~4:20
shrewd night
🤷
marble hemlock
once you get that one down just fine, you can go ahead and switch out prydaz, now youll only get past that hard check 50% of the itme, but those 50% of the times you know how to handle the next phase already
lost horizon
Everyone plays at different levels
marble hemlock
i mean im just trying to explain the rationale behind a decision like a raidleader calling for rogues/monks do go belt on argus p1 for example
obviously its a sign of other things going wrong, but it might make sense to do it at that particular time
lost horizon
No doubt you shouldn't HAVE to play belt
shrewd night
Eyes of the beholder and whatnot I guess
lost horizon
But it makes sense on prog depending on your situation
marble hemlock
as long as the raid/guildlead is aware of it just being a temporary fix to an issue that must be rectified sooner, rather than later, by people shaping up
im totally fine with fudging on the numbers with "bad" legendaries that are only good for such a specific situation
lost horizon
Yeah exactly, or you have a bench player in due to an absence dropping dmg a bit
Gotta make up for it
shrewd night
Like, an equally functioning solution, which is likely more preferable is to replace the people with long learning curves and bring them in later for when you know you can carry their mistakes
But yaknow, up to guild officers and whatnot
marble hemlock
its actually very rarely an immediate option
lost horizon
Better to salvage a raidnight by doing what you can
marble hemlock
you dont have a better player sitting on the bench waiting to get subbed in
because youd field him in the first palce already
lost horizon
Yeah you go in with the best you've got off the bat
shrewd night
Id like ot think that if someone is struggling with P1 argus, its not the first time its a problem.
marble hemlock
so whatever you have on your bench, is most likely going to be worse than what you have in the raid. and when your MM suddenly has to go and you get in a fury, you might suddenly be hardpressed to hit that transition the way you want to, and cant do proper p2/p3 progress anymore
lost horizon
Probably just an off night but, it happens
marble hemlock
so have the monk go belt instead of chest to fix the situation temporarily
makes sense to me
lost horizon
There's valid arguments for it, I think the general pushback is just that at the end of the day
You shouldn't be belt for the kill
marble hemlock
obviously not, no
shrewd night
To put it to the extreme, you wouldnt replace your arms warrior for a warlock just to progress P1 easier.
lost horizon
I think that's a bit too far off track
marble hemlock
i mean its the same underlying issue, with a more extreme fix
but the reasoning would be the same
lost horizon
Yeah, just much worse solution
marble hemlock
i think switching legendaries/talents to off-set something is less controversial when you need to tell a player to do it
lost horizon
Well it's like Eonar
shrewd night
If someone told me to do it, I would, but I would make sure my voice was heard on the topic.
marble hemlock
compared to saying "yo, armswarrior, we just lost our MM to some rl stuff, now we cant hit the transition anymore, we gotta dump you until that MM comes back" 😄
lost horizon
You shouldn't have to tell people to talent into slows and shit
But if none of your locks are wearing their ring..
jovial kite
i play valeeras on every progress boss
viscid helm
r u dum
jovial kite
because im alive more consistently
marble hemlock
im starting to like leeching poison over cheatdeath nowadays :x
spare cloud
I need cheat death to survive
marble hemlock
git gud?
marble hemlock
just need higher dps so you can leech through the shit youre standing in
marble hemlock
"yo toph, stop dying in that voidzone all the time" "not my fault, i just didnt get enough gear to dps-leech through the damage im taking"
spare cloud
I also dont use cloak on the second soak on aggramar
I just use cheat death every time
marble hemlock
isnt that one a massive overkill?
marble hemlock
makes sense
spare cloud
Seeing all the kids going home from school
While i go to the market to buy breakfast
midnight latch
breakfast
spare cloud
Because im a student and i can decide myself when i eat breakfast
I am not bound by a schedule
Freedom
manic vigil
Fair enough
I loved that as well when I started university
Until I realized that I have no discipline
And only hurt myself 
What a buzzkill thing to say 
I'm sure you are smarter than me and will be fine!
manic vigil
wispy zephyr
I'm torn between boosting a new rogue or transferring my current from horde to ally. Can't decide..
keen inlet
!warn @dusty wigeon Don't insult people.
chrome tuskBOT
Alright, @dusty wigeon has been warned because 'Don't insult people.'.
glad ferry
LUL
keen inlet
Late to the party on that one. How dare I spend a weekend working on my house amirite
lone junco
👮
keen inlet
Reminder if you see people openly insulting others you can ping mods or me. I don't mind, even retroactively. It's important to document if ppl have a history of behaviors.
manic vigil
Aww did I miss it? 
keen inlet
It was Saturday
manic vigil
gaunt moat
jose slacking now that he's despot, amirite?
manic vigil
Not exactly what I was thinking tbh
More like contemplating if I insulted anyone over the weekend
keen inlet
Just Don't ™
gaunt moat
maybe we should warn unimatrix just in case
vapid moth
Are we still talking about belt for progression? I never got the chance to say I think it's fucking retarded
vernal adder
midnight latch
thats an unfortunate choice of words
manic vigil
Just to be clear... No insults at all? Not even insulting xaethron is allowed, Don? Just checking
vapid moth
They can't be direct insults umi you're still good
midnight latch
stares at flowi
manic vigil
midnight latch
manic vigil
midnight latch
nah dude u ded now
vernal adder
unis gif avatar take too much space on the discord, ban him
manic vigil
midnight latch
vernal adder
*personnel
gaunt moat
!warn @vapid moth don't use pejoratives
chrome tuskBOT
Alright, @vapid moth has been warned because 'don't use pejoratives'.
manic vigil
vernal adder
🥄
hoary copper
Notter used his SAT word for the day
manic vigil
What are you implying exactly, @hoary copper
hoary copper
Notter has a word of the day calendar?
jovial kite
looks like nagura
gaunt moat
don't insult me
lone junco
10mins a day gonna go fast. Web blocked engaged.
jovial kite
LOL
lone junco
At least I have my phone while pooping.
dire spoke
hoary copper
idk, its not fluffy enough to be Notter
jovial kite
inb4 gingi in rh telling us we are sad
midnight latch
why thou
jovial kite
because we insult notter
midnight latch
oh
hoary copper
late to the party
Forgive me for I have un-sinned. I tried sub this weekend for a change of pace. I sim kinda close (despite crappy relics and a few ilvl difference). I did hilariously bad on my first attempts
hoary copper
squeezing the stuff in gcd when you dont know where your fat fingers are >.>
spare cloud
Well the pancakes didn't turn out too well
should've made usual ones and not try out making american ones for the first time
hoary copper
Whats the difference with "American" pancakes?
spare cloud
No they are smaller but T H I C C E R
Slagg
I just started a run
went with rare relic
got dead branch again
DIS GUNNA B GUD
jovial kite
LKPMLMÖLÄ;ÖÄ
SORRY
my gf told me to turn the volume down or she said she wold smash my head to the keybpasjdpiasjfipajripadjpsakdastjajrwe wqåeopLqpd1+3 13
drifting cloud
is that a real finnish word
spare cloud
Yes
manic vigil
Yes duh
manic vigil
What happened to your pancakes toph?
jovial kite
ei0q 3ir 23kgsdfdsgs0+kdor 2r
manic vigil
Murican ones are better imo
manic vigil
Slagg having a stroke
sharp viper
better call the bondulance
manic vigil
No sts talk in here btw
spare cloud
vaeira
you can understand
im sure
should I stream the run?
😄
I got dead branch corruption first shop
in case you didnt read
sharp viper
sure why not, i'd watch, eating atm anyways
spare cloud
again
sharp viper
are you assuming i can't read
spare cloud
Yes.
manic vigil
Notter get your hammer
sharp viper
cause you're spot on!
manic vigil
sharp viper
link your twitch in dm or off topic or dunno
manic vigil
Probably gonna happen yeah
sharp viper
got it
gaunt moat
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm #off-topic
vernal adder
prolly some Fortnite channel anyway
vestal wren
fortnite 🤔
vernal adder
cant type in off topic since spoon people cant read pins and will miss the vid
vernal adder
vernal adder
Dont think, just..yes
manic vigil
hoary copper
Thinking is bad. got it
prisma gull
hooray first leggo, shame its the belt.. oh well good stats I suppose 😃
hoary copper
Could be worse I spose, could be Sephuz
manic vigil
Skill
prisma gull
whose dick at blizz did you fondle?
strange python
hahah 😄
manic vigil
Mantle is such a game changer. 
once you have it
When you start out and actually have to play the game and all
keen inlet
@prisma gull
hoary copper
Mantle boots are my best simming pair -.-
Bracer boots are worst. 1.794 (shoulder/boots), 1.772 (shoulder/bracer), 1.75 (bracer/boot). Not a huge difference but slightly noticeable
silent nova
flint fable
