assassination

[tepid ridge]

and vs boss on raid doesn't the 3PK hurts into ST dps?

[lone junco]

@tepid ridge you can sim it, but the answer is not that bad.

[marble hemlock]

well, you skip the blobs in higher keys, it might certainly be worth when you actually do the pull ^^

[lone junco]

prob like -2% st. +20% in aoe

[tepid ridge]

allright but still 2% 😦

[marble hemlock]

with my current gear i lose about 35-50k dps on singletarget by not having 3xMAss

[tepid ridge]

I still dunno if going to play sub for M+ and Sin to raid

[sullen mountain]

do yall just farm vault all day?

i forget where the blood one comes from

[zealous dew]

@light sluice

[marble hemlock]

anyway, regarding the legendary question, you canot go wrong by just going mantle+bracer for everything, although there are a few bosses where a different combination is going to be better

[zealous dew]

@marble hemlock

[marble hemlock]

nice ping

got a 955 one 😦

[lone junco]

nice ring.

is avoidance that important for rogues?

[zealous dew]

yeah

[marble hemlock]

doesnt hurt ^^

[lone junco]

we have a lot of slippery skills

[marble hemlock]

feint is dps loss though 😦

like

[lone junco]

I guess it doesnt hurt that sub vers is high, and also defensive

[marble hemlock]

i wouldnt go out of my way to get avoidance gear as a rogue

[sullen mountain]

using feint is better than being dead 😉

[marble hemlock]

i.e. you arent required to have it, but its still very nice to have when the dps-loss is not that significant

[sullen mountain]

yeah if theres a 1-2% dps gain vs avoidance

[lone junco]

i guess things are diff at the 25-27 range where you have death and enrage on the bosses

[sullen mountain]

im gonna take the avoidance

[marble hemlock]

whereas other classes most definitely need a 20% avoidance gearset to be able to push higher keys

rogue usually gets by thanks to feint/cloak/evasion

[lone junco]

engrage being just very very hard bosses

[sullen mountain]

On the MDI tourney realm can they just make a full max-ilvl avoidance set?

[marble hemlock]

no

theres no tertiary stats on MDI servers

[sullen mountain]

weird

[marble hemlock]

unless its from a T2 relic trait

[sullen mountain]

i guess thats good though for the sake of balance

[marble hemlock]

which is what most people go for

[lone junco]

dk tank super strong I guess

they push group leech right?

[midnight latch]

they have group leech yes

[marble hemlock]

first time most groups started pushing the NL24 they were caught off guard by how much the 1st boss hurts when you dont have any avoidance

[midnight latch]

also ur healer has less work with you as a tank

[tepid ridge]

what 12% avoidance means?

it's a flat 12% aoe reduction?

[marble hemlock]

means whenever you get hit by an attack or spell that is considered area of effect damage, you take 12% less damage

[sullen mountain]

they nerfed avoidance awhile back too

[tepid ridge]

allright it's flat

[sullen mountain]

after tos

[tepid ridge]

it's insane x)

[marble hemlock]

its multiplicative with feint

not additive

[sullen mountain]

it used to be insane

[lone junco]

it was capped at 27% now it is capped at 20% or so says a google search

[tepid ridge]

if additive it would have been retarded haha

[marble hemlock]

and avoidance caps out at 20%, which is about 2.15k rating, which you generally get with just 3 pieces of avoidance gear

[steep obsidian]

cap was always 20%

just 20% was easier to reach pre that nerf

[sullen mountain]

you used to get more % per point before

[lone junco]

ah

[steep obsidian]

i had 20% in my nh gear with like 2 or 3 pieces with it

[tepid ridge]

and sub got like 4% free ?

oh no a relic mb

[marble hemlock]

yeah, master of shadows relic has 500mastery+500avoidance

with 3 of those you have ~13% avoidance already

[tepid ridge]

what's the cap of flat stats to 20%

?

[marble hemlock]

~2150

[tepid ridge]

800 left to get then x)

[marble hemlock]

actually, i think its 2.2k on the dot

[steep obsidian]

speed drs very very hard im sad

2k gave me like 13% 4k is like 16%

[marble hemlock]

speed is kind of capped at 17-18%

[steep obsidian]

yeh

[marble hemlock]

except for plate-classes

the DR or cap, whatever it is, doesnt apply to them

[steep obsidian]

i don tthink i hit a hard cap

ill have to recheck

but it sucks

[marble hemlock]

should somewhat cap at 18%, no matter how much you get

[steep obsidian]

speed set running between bosses is kinda cool

my ret has the speed boots

[sullen mountain]

yeah i have a set on my dk with aggramars and sephuz.. its a must..

[marble hemlock]

3.3k is 17.02% for me, think dropping that down to 2k is still somewhere around 14%

[steep obsidian]

but yeah 2k avoidance isnt that hard, if you are lucky enough to tf something high you can get 800+ rating on one piece

[marble hemlock]

but again, that cap doesnt apply to plate-classes, otherwise aggramars stride would be kind of bad

[tepid ridge]

got 886 on mythic chest without proc I guess chest is the higher

[lone junco]

from a general broad standpoint. why doesnt outlaw excel in the high keys?

seems that mark spam and the cleave and TB shoulder resets etc

[marble hemlock]

too reliant on CDs that have a fairly long cooldown, and even with gloves+bladefury, the aoe isnt that great

[lone junco]

its it just not bursty enough with gloves

[marble hemlock]

mfd spam only happens when the mobs are about to die, so youre not helping actually killing the mobs

[steep obsidian]

there is just no real reason to play it imo

[lone junco]

RT is just too weak compared to a Sub Storm evisc then

[steep obsidian]

the other specs just do things btter

[marble hemlock]

snd is a lot better in that regard, and it scales well with aoe trinkets like gorshalach/forgefiends

@mortal island can probably give you some more combat-insight (pun intended)

[steep obsidian]

i am enjoying exploiting the dodge mechanic with step as sin lately, i didn't realize how powerful it was :\

[lone junco]

I played it a lot in early M+, and of course i swapped to sub at the revamp.

evasion after sstep

[steep obsidian]

its like something you point and and think "thats shit" but when you realise you can dodge a bunch of boss and trash mecs its op

[marble hemlock]

its really just the fact, that combat eviscerate doesnt actually deal that much damage

[lone junco]

yeah. ^

ive been complaining about that for a while.

[marble hemlock]

so even by spreading it to all mobs with BF, its not that great of an aoe mechanic

and your biggest hitters, i.e. blunderbuss with bracers or smth like that, simply cant be BFed at all

[steep obsidian]

you still play alacrity in dungeons as ol right?

[lone junco]

yeah.

and roll to maintain

[steep obsidian]

i remember trying to keep stakcs up was fucking annoying

[lone junco]

or so I rememebered

[marble hemlock]

so its just measly SSs, autoattacks and wetnoodle evis you get to spread, and they all dont deal much damage

you can play snd in higher m+ though

[steep obsidian]

although they did make the rampup less now

[marble hemlock]

just need the right trinkets

i.e. gorshalach/forgefiends

and a tank that keeps mobs still

[lone junco]

I liked the kit. but the scale was wonky

they dropped the ball with CBB

literally

ayy

should have had an imbedded reset based on number of mobs hit

[steep obsidian]

i know you can't kill yousrelf with the curse

but it must be annoying for healers

[lone junco]

greed heals

prob a wash

[steep obsidian]

yeh but that is just rng

rng loh lol

[lone junco]

if i turn off meters, RTB Mark is fun in 5mans

I guess thats a simple metric for design

[steep obsidian]

yeah mark used to be shit and not work with mouseover macros for so long im glad they fixed that

sniping mfds is actually kinda fun

[lone junco]

I just hammered the trash.

but prob not best

would make sense to mark trash to hit prio

[steep obsidian]

reminds me of sniping killshots on mm hunter in hfc

[marble hemlock]

greed procs fairly frequently

so curse isnt really an issue

[sudden ocean]

should I use prydaz for prog or just rely on my kit?

[marble hemlock]

the latter

[lone junco]

you know what. Ill run an snd key. I have those trinkets. and gear is fine.

esp someone elses key

[marble hemlock]

forgefiends kinda sucks if the tank is kiting though, which this week he most likely will

necro+raging :p

[midnight latch]

@sudden ocean rely on that kit

[marble hemlock]

so just stick to golga+gorshalach

[steep obsidian]

i wouldnt use prydaz on anything other then stupidly high tyrannical keys if for some reason my group wanted to toture themseves by running them

[lone junco]

I have a prydaz/bracer set for that

[marble hemlock]

remember you can stack gorshalach before you start the key, the stacks dont disappear when you start it, so you can open with 13stacks and get a quick proc right off the bat 😄

[lone junco]

it was like a 3% loss i think

[steep obsidian]

its easy to swap pieces in and out for when you think you need em though

[lone junco]

@marble hemlock I could stack on dummy.

im just getting bored tbh.

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/A2lar/9458e0321a.jpg

@lone junco

can stack on that one in most dungeons

[silk sundial]

Noob question, I'm running sin with Shoulders and Boots and master poisoner. Should I pool energy during the rotation? If so how much and when? Or should I just spend CP as I get them

[marble hemlock]

📌

[steep obsidian]

you should read the guid up top yeh

and anything specific we can answer after that

[silk sundial]

OK :)

[dire remnant]

are you guys able to log into raider io?

[zealous dew]

lul dht 24

ripperino

[steep obsidian]

its doable with avoidance cap and like everyone with aggramar trinkets and shit but like why would you bother

heh

[marble hemlock]

cause its fun

[steep obsidian]

well getting rnged coz the person who can't cheese the final boss mechs easily more then once aint much fun imo 😛

[marble hemlock]

well you usually have a certain amount of defensive CDs and externals that you have to be on point to not overlap

[steep obsidian]

on a 24 tyr does that even make a diff though?

[marble hemlock]

but get a boomy, rogue and wl/mage, and youre fine

yeah

[steep obsidian]

i aint seen a streamer do a tyr dht that high

[lethal heart]

i remember trying 26 tyra dht

like 2-3 months ago

xavius was fun

[steep obsidian]

my best dht is only a 21 but that was on a non tyr week and it wasnt that bad

[marble hemlock]

i mean

[steep obsidian]

dresaron would hurt so much

[lethal heart]

we couldnt obv kill him

[marble hemlock]

24tyrannical bolt

is 11.2mil damage on a maxroll

so as a rogue you need elusiveness and around 10k versa to survive it, ideally you also have the arcway tank trinket, then youre safe

and can still go double dps legendary

easy

[lethal heart]

dresaron assuming healer can top you after downdraft

and you're avoidance capped

is ok

[steep obsidian]

what about feeds? those hurt like hell too

[marble hemlock]

avoidance doesnt do anything against downdraft :/

[lethal heart]

yea

[steep obsidian]

l guess rip if you get more then one

[lethal heart]

but avoidaance you need for roar

[marble hemlock]

feed is like 25mil over 4sec, so yeah

[lethal heart]

feed you need defensive really

unless rogue then cloak/vanish

[marble hemlock]

yeah

just need strong healers really

[steep obsidian]

ahh i never even think of using vanish as a defensive cd

[lethal heart]

thing is

[marble hemlock]

like jb on that 26 CoS this week

[steep obsidian]

i guess you dont run shoulders den

[lethal heart]

you dont yea

but thing is

[marble hemlock]

can go w/o shoulders to save vanish for feed/bolt, yep

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/373053665310801921/433741063744651265/Screenshot_-_11_04_2018__23_29_17.png

need healers like this though

[steep obsidian]

lol

[marble hemlock]

:3

[lethal heart]

at least from my pov once key is like 25 forti i cant survive without prydaz

with elusiveness alone

[marble hemlock]

thats from 2nd boss CoS 26

[lethal heart]

and if many people outrange

you get that debuff thingie that eats your prydaz

unless healer is godlike at dispelling and you dont lose prydaz

or if its quaking then you lose prydaz aswell

super sketch if you have to use vanish/cloak for nightmare bolts

[marble hemlock]

ye

i mean

coagulated nightwell residue is supergood for xavius/hyrja

[lethal heart]

yea i like it

[steep obsidian]

my avoidance gear blows 😐 i like have some low shitty trinkets and a 930 helm

[onyx heath]

Is weak auras messing with anyone else’s FPS?

[steep obsidian]

not much luck there

[lethal heart]

dont really need avoidance as rogue

[steep obsidian]

maybe its a specific aura snug?

[lethal heart]

even 10% is enough

[steep obsidian]

its been fie for me but if you have a bad aura

[mortal island]

@marble hemlock you called?

[onyx heath]

It’s a rotation aura maybe that’s why

[lethal heart]

very rare cases where at least i'd use avoidance gear

[marble hemlock]

@lone junco wanted to know about combat in higher keys

[lethal heart]

i'd use them for example last boss cos if i know we have timer secured and i wanna play super safe

or coen same stuff

actually cos never did that

[mortal island]

its better the longer mobs are up

[lethal heart]

becasue so much dodge, feint

[marble hemlock]

snd or mfd?

[mortal island]

snd

no clue about mfd

mfd is more exploiting the reset

[onyx heath]

Anyone know of a good rotation aura?

[mortal island]

snd is simply using ur gloves well

you know that first pull in nelths selia

[lone junco]

Do you use the cancelaura macro

[marble hemlock]

ye

[mortal island]

As sub i did around ~15

as outlaw i sat at ~35 until the drudge's died

[lone junco]

Ooo

[marble hemlock]

neat :3

[mortal island]

well sort of

[marble hemlock]

though 15 as sub seems fairly low :p

[mortal island]

eh

im not even better than the average sub rogue

[lone junco]

I don't enjoy dfa footwork.

[marble hemlock]

i just played monk in that NL :<

[lethal heart]

depends how well grabbed that is

[mortal island]

took me like 100 attempts to learn sub on maw >_>

haha

i ended up playing dh

[lethal heart]

but since its nl

[marble hemlock]

you guys managed to get into top8?

[mortal island]

nope.jpg

[marble hemlock]

😦

[lethal heart]

you always have conc on 1st pull

is nice

[mortal island]

came last, out of the ppl who actually finished all 3

[marble hemlock]

^^

not enough multiclassing?

[mortal island]

yeah basically

[marble hemlock]

wouldve been fun to see a combat rogue at regionals 😄

[mortal island]

not that I mind too much, our goal was always to put up some times w/ our non-meta comp

eh..nah

w/o glaives & frond

and t19

i was already demotivated af

the build i designed went out the window @_@

[steep obsidian]

@onyx heath you can try the aethys rotation addon, I have never used it though, its an addon not a wa

[marble hemlock]

no arcanogolem digit either 😦

[lethal heart]

970 frond 🤤

[mortal island]

mhm

oh well

theres always next mdi 😉

[marble hemlock]

😄

[mortal island]

maybe then outlaw will actually be good

L U L

[marble hemlock]

ill just be happy

if ashine or dajhaj play rogue even once :<

[lethal heart]

mo is 1st dungeon somewhere

isnt it?

mos*

[marble hemlock]

yeah

[lethal heart]

so maybe

but then they're playing all in on winning 1st map

[marble hemlock]

but not everyone was running the shroud-skip pulls

[lethal heart]

but like winning maw iwth rouge

2nd map ez lose coz rogue

[marble hemlock]

😄

[lethal heart]

3rd map pick eoa/good rogue dungeon

this is only reasoning

someone could pick rogue over dh/monk

[marble hemlock]

ye

gonna be interesting to see the doublerogue chinese team tomorrow

[lethal heart]

i wanna see them play stuff like brh

or arcway

200 iq archers with the boss in brh inc?

[onyx heath]

@steep obsidian do you have a link or is it in curse?

[steep obsidian]

pretty sure its twitch/curse addon area

[onyx heath]

@steep obsidian cool thanks

[zealous dew]

pull everything to last boss and cleave

easy

would love to see teeming necrotic skittish fortified

explosive as well

[steep obsidian]

lol huge pulls with monks would just make them go splatt

it would be funny to watch

couldnt kite either

[zealous dew]

hehe

remember there ravager boyz

ravageeeeeeeeeeeeer, dead

[astral sundial]

is the stream live? can't find it : /

[steep obsidian]

huh?

mdi? pretty sure that is tomorrow

its 11pm in aisa right now

[manic vigil]

What happened to the hella op warriors btw

[zealous dew]

benched

[manic vigil]

[steep obsidian]

might have seen them if you were able to use glaives

and sub rogues too

or more of them

[zealous dew]

i'm learning sub but boys these pugs with 3 mobs

just piss me off

i've also seen some pulls with 2!

[manic vigil]

I bet

[steep obsidian]

lol how high are they pulling?

[manic vigil]

2

[steep obsidian]

like what key i mean

[zealous dew]

yeah like vault patrol before corridor

[steep obsidian]

how high

[zealous dew]

22-23

[steep obsidian]

necrotic is a bit scary with raging

[zealous dew]

we haz lock slow

[steep obsidian]

for tanks

not everything can be kited

but yeh that sound like over kill

[zealous dew]

i mean ok to reset cds but every pull 2 mobs

come on

[steep obsidian]

might as well play sin 😛

[zealous dew]

had a Nl last day second dmg ability was shadowstrike

come on

is there a gutripper fel relic ?

[steep obsidian]

of course there are

[zealous dew]

can't find it

[steep obsidian]

one from first boss in tos i cant remember what mythic dungeons drop them

brutallus from memory

[zealous dew]

too low

[steep obsidian]

hmm you might have a point

yeh

[zealous dew]

need 940 base

ah, NL lol

what a tool I am

[keen inlet]

Fam

What are your thoughts regarding TB and Exang, how should they function to be interesting choices

I was saying to my good friend @gaunt moat that I like Exsang working as a burst/priority cd, TB more as throughput sustained dps

[zealous dew]

I'd like tb aoe for m+

like personal buff

[jovial kite]

don jose snitching for the community feedback yes.. i see 🤔

yes exsang should be a high burst cd

but tb will probably be the burst build due to pb

[gaunt moat]

well, that's the original idea behind exsang, when it was 400% hasted tick rate.
but then it was nerfed and it back less about that.
and in BFA, with haste affecting ticks, who knows if exsang even has a place anymore.

it needs to go back to the original 400%

[jovial kite]

not necessarily 😄 it was fun and op

but i think they scrapped it due to having no point in losing all the energy you get

and by design its pretty stupid

to be overcapped on energy for the whole duration of exsang

so venomous vim or whatever the name is for energy per bleed tick, contradicts the 400% exsang rate

and tbh exsang is in a good spot right now

not counting prepatch / launch its the best its been for the whole expansion

exsang bursts right now if you proc bota and concordance

im kinda worried what happens when bfa comes

if bota and def concordance is pruned

having bleeds scale from mastery is a good idea but it might not work with exsang anyways. as we are baseline locked with crit

now we need also probably haste and mastery

so its pretty 🤷🏿

hope they work something out

have no idea about internal testing nor alpha data but nerfing the tickrate baseline for exsang might be unrecoverable for it to be viable

given we havent seen any azerite stuff yet

but it seems like too big of a strain for different stats right now

[calm grail]

Make Hemo great again.

[steep obsidian]

hey we played it for like a week or 2 in en

[jovial kite]

umm

i still play it

🤷🏿

[steep obsidian]

hemo?

[jovial kite]

oh hemo

not

nvm

[steep obsidian]

i was like wow you must be pretty meta

[jovial kite]

hemo needs a 100% 200% buff to be viable

[keen inlet]

lel

[calm grail]

Imagine if the bleed build had a viable Talent on the first tier that wasn't EP

🤔

[astral sundial]

@jovial kite what did you mean about being basline locked on crit?

[jovial kite]

assa by design works with sealed fate

so we need crit to play smooth

and not waste all energy we get for mutilates

[fervent beacon]

Are you on alpha?

[jovial kite]

no sadly

cough blizz send alpha cough plz

[astral sundial]

@jovial kite but if haste buffs our dots, maybe the energy regen will be just as viable for combo point generation? I mean even if you can't get same amount of combo points per second (not per cast, cuz you will have more casts anyway) muti still deals dmg and have a chance to proc dispatch

[drifting cloud]

they should be sending waves out to 11/11 soon if I had to guess

[jovial kite]

@astral sundial its possible but i find it unlikely

haste probably wont have that big of an effect on energy regen

but like.. its all feelycrafty

from my part

we'll see

but its a fact you want a baseline something crit and it would make sense to want as much mastery as you can

and its possible there will be a haste softcap to make it worthwhile

[astral sundial]

I mean looking at it on line it would have huge effect just from the "dots energy regan thingy"

whatevr it is called 😛

[jovial kite]

but needing to invest in these stats might make it unviable

iirc 100% haste halves the tickrate

@warm parcel correct me if im wrong

cant remember honestly

but if it was that scale then haste doesnt make too big of an impact

[astral sundial]

I see, thanks for all the info 😃

[warm parcel]

100 halves ye

[hollow robin]

Hey, my guild just started M Agg attempts last night, any tips for rogues on that fight?

[fervent beacon]

reeee server shutdown on alpha

[keen inlet]

new build hype?!

[hoary copper]

aaaaaaah its the one eyed purple monster >.>

[keen inlet]

Boldly you have wandered into the Harvester's domain

[hoary copper]

we'e doomed

[spare cloud]

Don is on every class discord

ping him on every discord

[fervent beacon]

[spare cloud]

except here

[hoary copper]

are you saying he gets around?

[fervent beacon]

Good thing I'm just on here

[spare cloud]

I'm saying everywhere is the Harverster's domain

[keen inlet]

tbqh I barely go on the others these days

because I barely alt

[hoary copper]

Don is like visa, everywhere you want to be

[spare cloud]

Don is everywhere

Don is like air

Can't survive without Don

but Don also kills you slowly

[hoary copper]

Idk I think we are killing don slowly

[keen inlet]

I can neither confirm nor deny any of the above statemetns

[spare cloud]

Don is already dead inside

can't kill him

[jovial kite]

well it so seems that Jose himself died for our sins and has since risen on the third day to the ranks of the gods in the heavens

[placid egret]

We starting a religion based around him then?

[jovial kite]

Jose stands on the righthand side of Ion

[keen inlet]

slightly off to the left, listening to the questions they're picking

[jovial kite]

i knew hes one of us

[keen inlet]

(my first avatar on discord was Space Ghost)

[manic vigil]

[stark heart]

new build wat?

[hoary copper]

What if Don was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Tryin' to make his way home?

[dire spoke]

lmfao

[keen inlet]

I was tho

[jovial kite]

🤣

was

Elaboration requested

have you become a filthy stateside turncoat

[quasi spindle]

leveling 40-60 is painfully slow lol. Keep having to remind myself, I won't get heritage armor if I 110 boost...

[lean hill]

Sanity > heritage armor

[quasi spindle]

I know, right?

[lean hill]

You know now that I think about it, I leveled 1-70 2 times, 55-85 once, 100-110 3 times and that's all

And I have 5 110s lol

[quasi spindle]

been around since early early vanilla. I lost count how many I've leveled over the years. My current account only goes back to Wrath of the Lich King. Vanilla account is lost to the internet.

[keen inlet]

I have 12+ at 110 now

most of them I had maxed by Cata

[lean hill]

Boosts for life I guess. Boosted my hunter and monk when I had 5 legendary tokens a piece to use

[lone junco]

Exang was pretty gross without 2p20.

[lean hill]

Now I have 5 pal and 5 sham.... making myself wait until 10 if that happens s

[quasi spindle]

10 at 110 for me

[sullen mountain]

i have 12 rogues at 110

[quasi spindle]

you autistic or clinic level OCD, Longnoodle?

don't mean that in an offensive way

[sullen mountain]

i was kidding

[quasi spindle]

lol

[sullen mountain]

i do have 2 though

because of early legion legendary grinding

[quasi spindle]

you were kidding, but I've known plenty over the years. For some odd reason, they tend to be warriors or priests.

[sullen mountain]

i had a friend in EN that had 3 hunters trying to get BiS legendary on

that was a bit over the top

[lean hill]

Seems worse now that legendaries drop like candy

[sullen mountain]

it is now for sure

but back then it wasnt a terrible idea

[lean hill]

Well, depends who you ask lol

[lone junco]

Sco got like 2bis for warrior right out the gate.

But had 3 warriors I think.

I should have deleted due to My sephuz prydaz

[lean hill]

I can't complain about legendaries, sephuz was second last

And that's after the newer ones got added

[lone junco]

Was actually why I rolled a dh. Got shoulders first.

[lean hill]

That's why you load up on tokens

[lone junco]

Screamed at Lore like an idtiot.

[lean hill]

Easier to get bis when you get 6 legendaries at once

[lone junco]

Tokens don't affect my horrible time in En.

[lean hill]

Haha true

Month between legendaries, rough life back then

[lone junco]

Bracer insig was like 200k over my set.

400k v 600k

[lean hill]

I was rocking belt/pants for a while

[drifting cloud]

theres no way thats true

50% from 2 leggos yeah

[lone junco]

Back then bracer proceed the insig hit?

[drifting cloud]

maybe if you had 800 lvl items in those slots

and 0 legos

[steep obsidian]

huh?

[lean hill]

Well they would have been not much higher than 800 then lol

[drifting cloud]

that was a bug ..

[steep obsidian]

they nerfed the passive of insig a lot

at some point early expac

it was like double what it is now?

for sin

or was taht only ol

i cant even remember

[lone junco]

Yeah. It was proc of each hit of Bb.

On bracer.

[steep obsidian]

there been a few bugs and so much stuff changed it hard to remember it all

[lean hill]

I miss the 9 second vanish window

[steep obsidian]

i remember insig being pretty desireable early expac though

[lean hill]

With draught

[steep obsidian]

pre shoulders

[vernal adder]

if you dont have shoulders as a first leggo, reroll

or wrists

[gaunt moat]

damn, alpha server down, can't check the changes

[vernal adder]

you crashed it

[echo cargo]

Is there a particular reason that you get removed from invis when you vanish sometimes?

[keen inlet]

usually a dot tick

[lone junco]

i remember some condition where you vanish, and have to stealth after. details are fuzzy. maybe it was a pvp thing

[hoary copper]

Thats why you be a dwarf, stoneform and vanish and always win

[manic vigil]

news?!

[lone junco]

so when you swap spec to outlaw, does that just go to BTE?

im gonna hate this shit arent i

best stats, shit pyramid inc.

cool. so if Crit mastery is bis on chest for 2 specs. you would have one with Mut and one with bte.

https://giphy.com/gifs/reactiongifs-mrw-fvtmoJ7S6GzRe

[gaunt moat]

Dispatch has been renamed to Blindside now

@gusty kestrel yes, it has always had 30% chance to proc for free from mutilate.

and like the picture you've posted, for some reason they removed the 2nd Tier, and now nothing in 4th tier. weird.

[restive inlet]

I hope dispatch or Blindside, whatever its name ends up as, turns out as the top simming option. I loved it in WoD

[gaunt moat]

Crimson Vial is also on global cooldown now

[restive inlet]

excellent

xd

[gaunt moat]

i don't really get why...

[restive inlet]

I hope they reverse all of those GCD changes. sounds horrible. vanish-usage will be so weird

[vestal wren]

whats wrong with vanish?

[gaunt moat]

no i mean i don't get why put it on GCD

[restive inlet]

vanish-rupture or vanish-envenom when vanish is on the gcd

🤔

it works, but awkward

[gaunt moat]

orgimmar pretty busy

[sharp viper]

who do i owe sexual favours to so i will get alpha access?

[civic palm]

Alrighty who is streaming Raid Testing?

👍

Yeah link works.

[restive inlet]

Did poison knives get baked into the spec?

[civic palm]

Nah it's doodoo anyway.

Might be an armor trait for it.

[chilly plume]

rotation still the same ?

[restive inlet]

maybe. I saw someone streaming with the combat log open, and poison knives was definitely in there when he fokked

[civic palm]

Then why ask the question? > _>

[chilly plume]

some 1 told me that hunters will be number 1 os that rigth ?

[civic palm]

Oh yeah totally, someone can say that with 100% certainty.

_>

[restive inlet]

because, as you pointed out, I may have missed an azerite trait

[civic palm]

Also, what does "will be"? When it that?

Nah @restive inlet there's nothing I have seen that grants Poison Knives.

[restive inlet]

hmm, allrighty. then it seems like it's baked in now

[civic palm]

It's not listed anywhere, so I still don't think so.

[rapid pulsar]

Quick question is there a big difference in dps between Poison and Bleed builds?

[lone junco]

real difference is in EP or MP.

takes a ton of crit to maintain Elab plan but it buffs everything, not just poisons

[rapid pulsar]

what would you say is min requireD?

[plain thistle]

😄

[civic palm]

40 is very safe yeah.

[rapid pulsar]

fair enough

[plain thistle]

nah, you need to consider BB traits and shocklight

not only normal crit chance

thats why its better to sim

[supple hearth]

Bleed

Poison

Works cited: herodamage in pins

[civic palm]

teag

Yeah as well.

Could someone hit the light switch though?! > _>

[lone junco]

lol. bug in the dar.

k

[civic palm]

I think I see the boss.

Client/Server sync issues?

It is a bad time for an update but there are some supposed GCD changes.

Neat.

Rogue Discord: CT has no practical applications.

Blizzard: Hold my beer.

[lone junco]

yeah, was nice to see there

[civic palm]

Void Lash animation is 👌

NRG regen seems fine with Venom Rush as well.

[lone junco]

esp in cleave

fok on ct

[civic palm]

Yeah.

and if ST CT damage is fine PBomb might just be dead.

[lone junco]

meh. mark env trash will be bomb candy

esp with a mass grip off tank there

[civic palm]

Yeah but without grip it's flaccid.

[lone junco]

its funny to watch live streams of classes I play. I usually watch sco/rogerbrown.

im at work trying to rupture my keyboard

[civic palm]

_>

Put the knife away... weirdo.

[lone junco]

I dont have the same mouse so my finger is flinching

[civic palm]

Forgetting that CT does on cast damage as well, good for continued casting.

[lone junco]

wait i didnt think it had a hit

that matters.

[civic palm]

Yeah saw the tooltip earlier.

Does damage + DoT.

[lone junco]

it used to be 12sec tick iirc

which btw is garbage under exang conditions

yay 6sec

[pastel crystal]

more spells on the GCD do they want us to quite playing wow? lol

[civic palm]

damage, plus damage over time

[lone junco]

would hate to use 5cp then 4. and lower the tick rate

[normal plover]

where is this list of stuff being put on the GCD

[civic palm]

Not complete.

There were changes today.

[normal plover]

did they put CoS on the GCD

[civic palm]

Doubt it.

[normal plover]

then I'm cool

[civic palm]

Shadowstep isn't on GCD either though it might trigger it.

[normal plover]

that's fine

[crimson basin]

@normal plover http://fr.wowhead.com/news=283524/battle-for-azeroth-new-abilities-added-to-the-gcd

[normal plover]

oh hey I just noticed I got alpha

[civic palm]

👌

In other news, DPS CDs on GCD, nothing new.

[normal plover]

crimson vial wasnt aleady on the GCD?

[civic palm]

Felt like it.

[normal plover]

yeah seriuosly

[civic palm]

Cloak is not on GCD though it might trigger it.

[normal plover]

not really sure why they'd put grappling hook on GCD other than it's like leap I guess

[civic palm]

lawl Fixate adds, harharharharharharhar

[lone junco]

yeah. they move fast

[civic palm]

Can you check your combat log and see if Poison Knives is there?

[lone junco]

CT seemed best.

but its a cluster for sure.

i gotta get back to work. gl

[normal plover]

what fixate adds?

[civic palm]

Watching BfA raid test.

[lone junco]

seed dream prob.

[civic palm]

Projection of C'thun btw O _O"

[lone junco]

all the dots. if that shit stays wandering and non stackable. Shadow/Aff Ele will do well.

[civic palm]

Not sure on Ele.

[lone junco]

doesnt marks have a cone

[civic palm]

new new new new volley?

[lone junco]

we have an ele, and his chain lightning overloads can do well, and it seems to jump pretty far.

prob all broken in bfa

[civic palm]

Yeah I am only worried about range.

Though on this you can have ~3 markers and people move through to keep the adds grouped.

Also...

[lone junco]

sure.

moonkin prob

[civic palm]

Considering CT has an on-hit damage component I am betting Nightstalker doesn't snapshot the DoT.

[normal plover]

this stream is making me nauseated

[civic palm]

KEEP IT DOWN!!

[normal plover]

a d a d a d

[civic palm]

Welcome to Rogue > _>

q e q e q e q e q e q e q e q e q e q e SPACE

[lone junco]

Ct bleed power will suck if you use anything less than max cps.

Overwrite big with smaller.

[civic palm]

The scaling seemed linear last I checked.

By seemed I mean is linear.

[lone junco]

It you don't want time based. Or it would be too long to be useful.

I'd like it to be a bit weaker and stack to 4.

That way it isn't a st. But it is spammable in aoe.

[civic palm]

So I think there is a noob trap with this FoK talent.

Especially on this fight.

[lone junco]

Open and pull Agro. Get fucked

[civic palm]

More like...

PBomb is good if FoK Talent is good.

CT is just better in this situation due to the spread.

[normal plover]

I would like to be able to choose either based on the fight

[civic palm]

You can.

Thankfully.

[normal plover]

that makes me happy

[civic palm]

I dunno.

The singular use seems weak.

and CT out of Vanish with MA might be good >_>

CT ticks are every 2 seconds ye?

Considering Poison Bombs new proc chance I could still see it being used here =\

Yeah

CT just trucks.

CT duration is 16 seconds max, they seem to live that long.

Well, close at least.

16 with Pandemic though yeeeeee

I mean it doesn't matter due to CT actually doing application damage and being something you wanna spam.

[plain thistle]

rip dispatch, now its called Blindside

🤔

[indigo idol]

hey its me again with another question 😃 : why did he : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MVPcyWwp6AGT71jH#fight=35&type=damage-done&source=18 so much better than me: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MVPcyWwp6AGT71jH#fight=35&type=damage-done&source=26 and if you guys have some tips for maximizing at aggramar

[plain thistle]

@indigo idol use the compare tool to better visualize that, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/MVPcyWwp6AGT71jH/MVPcyWwp6AGT71jH#fight=35,35&source=26,18

[viscid helm]

i mean 2s look at the log and you could have seen that most of it was PB

also your garrote and rupt uptime

was awful

[indigo idol]

@plain thistle the thing is im not that into logs :/

@viscid helm not only that but his overall dmg is way higher than mine

and his gear is not that much better than mine i guess

i also meant what he did mechanically better than me

that´d help me alot

[viscid helm]

PB,rupture,garrote accounts for 65M dmg difference already

maybe you should keep bleeds up

[lone junco]

we talked about this yesterday. His crit is so much higher and runs ep. he also got 2% goganeth and you got 0.9. His pb was >yours and you are running shoulders. So basically, his spec is more predictably better.

[indigo idol]

i guess he

whoops wrong dc sry

[lone junco]

raw sim shoulder bracer he has 120k on you

so it makes sense that he beats you. often

so even if he swaps to insig bracer, you are fighting an uphill battle.

[drifting cloud]

2350 with 974 weapons wtf is that gear

[lone junco]

8 panth on each, but thats still not unreasonable. Golg at 1.5% is about right

34/180 vs 29/206

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7i2GH5hqACFuFmhaiLn6Wa/simc

[indigo idol]

guess human has an impact too ? :/

[lone junco]

they are 5.6% apart. isnt human like a 0.5% gain over void elf

granted those are amory imports, and he doesnt wear that gear in raid.

but w/e

@gusty kestrel vanish ct, or stealth open cold ct

guess it doesnt matter if you have the cps

@drifting cloud 2.35 is pretty good right.

[drifting cloud]

yeah its some visual import bug

his weapons are almost 1k on the log

[lone junco]

974 is overall ilvl

but yeah. the 1k weps

[civic palm]

So with the idiocy that was Legion, I remain curious whether or not NS will empower all of CT or just the initial hit.

Someone mentioned seeing Poison Knives still.

But yeah, no PK.

[trim dirge]

survival seems like such an incomplete spec

just hitting everything that comes off cd

[civic palm]

Yeah without the warlock ring what other mass slow options are there?

That are flexible like Crippling

[trim dirge]

i mean frost mage is good at that

[lost horizon]

Frost

Ye

[civic palm]

@ over 20y radius?

[trim dirge]

blizzard is a pretty large radius

[civic palm]

Because those bugs are NOT standing still.

[lost horizon]

Talent for bigger blizzards too

[trim dirge]

and f orb

[lost horizon]

Plus increased slow talent, though idk what it'll look like in bfa

[plain thistle]

our frost mage doesnt use that talent, because it increases blizzard damage and kill adds

😄

just normal blizzard, he re cast if he needs to

[lone junco]

@gusty kestrel cleave wasnt horrible

lock lock monk monk

ct did good work. esp for the spread component

how did you not get a ct on boss

[civic palm]

and with better organization the spread can be minimized to an extent.

[civic palm]

=\

[lone junco]

lol 62 fok hit boss

0.15%

wait nvm

you cast 62. hit him 2x

915 per

ct hits arent bad.

can see the ns thre

yeah. it busted the NS ticks.

seems

esp with the long duration ads

[civic palm]

Yeah.

Don't wanna overwrite it seems.

Working... as... intended.

[lone junco]

or.

just use the vanish crit instead of ns

bang bang

[civic palm]

or NS+CT then tunnel boss.

[lone junco]

Vanish ct fok ct

its 3 sec

pandemic tick from 12 to 15

meh

[civic palm]

Yeah not great.

[lone junco]

esp if it keeps you from recasting the hits

like thjis

i dunno. it will be shitty to play around.

cause the CT hit is real cleave

[civic palm]

Yeah

[lone junco]

yeah.

[civic palm]

👌

[lone junco]

1.4sec with lust

thats not bad.

[civic palm]

Pretty good really, especially with NS.

[lone junco]

i imagine that if the hit, is too strong, we will spam it like divine storm

cause env isnt cleave without bomb

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[lone junco]

4k ct hit

[civic palm]

NS or not though?

[lone junco]

vs 6600 env

oh thats ns

[civic palm]

2600 or so without, requires 3+ targets.

[lone junco]

overall numbers. avg env 6650. avg ct hit. 2500

just take 3

yeah

max env crit was 18k. so that was suprising

i guess thats double the ns env

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[lone junco]

CT crit at 8k. so 2.5 mobs again

that wont stay.

[civic palm]

ENV doesn't really do much.

No tier buff, no PBomb, focus on bleeds over PSN.

[lone junco]

so basically. in cleave ns is meh. and the crit talent will be >

[gaunt moat]

yeah, their philosophy for BFA for assassination is to keep it simple.

so even envenom isn't gonna be something you really play around.

[lone junco]

vanish ct fok ct. will be > than the ns ct

[civic palm]

It's very back-to-basics, especially coming off of the insanity that seems to be Legion.

[lone junco]

prob.

[viscid helm]

so

[civic palm]

CT has no applications.

Like you predicted.

[gaunt moat]

flowi, did you see what i wrote to you about blindside? (dispatch)

[lone junco]

no poison application?

[viscid helm]

yeh but honestly i thought it was a joke, looked at it before i went to bed

[civic palm]

haha

[viscid helm]

untill i just saw it in the notes

[gaunt moat]

it seems the intended use will be to replace mutilate completely when target below 30%

[viscid helm]

yeh

[midnight latch]

I literally cant

[viscid helm]

looks shit

1 CP generator feels like shit

[lone junco]

CT poison hits

[civic palm]

👏

QoL monster

[viscid helm]

TB should have been removed from the start

shit talent

[lone junco]

Is MP and EP on the first row still?

how are they different

[viscid helm]

just nerfed from live

both MP and EP

other than that

the same

[lone junco]

mp doesnt push bleed with mastery?>

k.

[viscid helm]

EP dream

[civic palm]

Master... Pogue.

[gaunt moat]

@gusty kestrel well that's cause every tier as a "theme", and only the last tier is AoE

[viscid helm]

i bet they are going to remove CT's intial hit

[lone junco]

yeah Tb pushed your Envs up

CT initial + DP

is something to spam

[gaunt moat]

we can't really say right now.
but people started working on sims. since it seems assassination will not be seeing any more big changes. maybe only a little number tuning.

[lone junco]

remove the hit, and you just wait... in cleave

[viscid helm]

whats the PB % rn?

in alpha

with 5 CP

[civic palm]

20%

with Vigor

It's very very rapid.

[lone junco]

it should be target based with a cloud tbh

eww

[civic palm]

Range is also a major consideration.

[viscid helm]

no point paying any attention to numbers

[lone junco]

so basically. if the CT Hit is there. ignore haste. stack crit for EP

[civic palm]

Luck with PBomb and it's rapid tick rate still make it strong IMO.

I say luck but it's 20% now.

[lone junco]

I like the short bomb timer

[civic palm]

Not very... luck related.

[lone junco]

Fok talent is dead

yeah. CT for trash kite will be good

[civic palm]

Yeah the FoK talent is WPVP meme's

[viscid helm]

idk

i could easily see the FoK talent be best option for that boss that was tested

if u wanna pad

[gaunt moat]

i have said that from the start that it's seems such a niche talent (hidden blades) that i don't see it being used ever.

[lone junco]

@gusty kestrel m+. ns.ct. Roll in with cps. open CT then tunnel something

seems ideal

else the mass. with env fok env

[civic palm]

Seems better than PBomb even with the duration reduction.

[lone junco]

12 sec ns ct open will be ok. will put EP at tick 2.

just not the hit

I like mark ct spam tho.

[echo estuary]

has Tom been exonerated yet for his sins?

[civic palm]

Not ever.

[gaunt moat]

@echo estuary why, you want that to happen?

[cinder field]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/8c1oqa/big_alpha_invite_wave_seems_to_have_targetted/

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/A2A2y/842b217a83.jpg

assa confirmed god-spec

[echo estuary]

Because Tom is the light in the dark place

[spare cloud]

I even went white for you

[marble hemlock]

once you go white, you never go back

thats how it goes, right?

[spare cloud]

Seliathan you look like Richards cat

are you Richards cat

[marble hemlock]

maybe his cat looks like me?

[spare cloud]

Impossible

[marble hemlock]

but yes

you are right

i am indeed a cat

and richard belongs to me

thats how cat-human relationships go

[spare cloud]

[lone junco]

@gusty kestrel Will make me lol if bleeds become king because of dmg per gcd.

1.     1.           5.            1.
   

@marble hemlock 3M dps overall is a lot. Was everything packs of 5-7?

[marble hemlock]

nah

BRH

inflates numbers because of last boss

[lone junco]

I guess vanish at bracer with buff.

I bet it is weird without Kb.

[lost horizon]

KB is like one of the only things you have to actually like

Do anything about as poison

[lone junco]

Now you will just make sure vendetta lands over a tb window.

[lost horizon]

It would probably take more effort to try to make that not happen tbh

[vapid moth]

@marble hemlock what dungeon was that

[marble hemlock]

brh24

[lone junco]

I like blackrook tbh.

Tanks get all weird with necrotic bats.

[lost horizon]

Tanking stairs on necrotic is

Yeah

Fucking cancerous

And I only really do it on my pally which is pretty good with necrotic

[lone junco]

We are going to use skystep bop for the next time that comes around.

[lost horizon]

Nah need spellwarding

[lone junco]

Only prob with our group there is the arcane.

Bop is from the ret.

On Druid.

Arcane gets gibbed at times.

[viscid helm]

sub is dead

[regal cape]

Sub is competitive on argus

And in general if you play it well enough.

[viscid helm]

what are you even talking about

and no it isnt even competitive in argus

not that we were even talking about argus

[lost horizon]

I'd probably fuck up and DFA my rage into the stack like a jackass if I tried sub on argus

[viscid helm]

symbols being on GCD is 👌

[lost horizon]

🤢

[heavy plover]

what y'all rolling in BFA, or sticking with rogue?

[viscid helm]

something that has more than 2 active buttons in it's rotation

[heavy plover]

so demon hunter i guess then?

[viscid helm]

DH is dead in BFA.

[heavy plover]

yes but very complicated rotation

[viscid helm]

yes 1 button rotation seems complicated

[heavy plover]

idd

i'm thinking bout feral idk why, but enjoyed rogue this expansion so far

[viscid helm]

They gave DH a colossus smash for BFA

its officially dead class now

just like ret was in legion

[heavy plover]

well they had there fun in leigon

fuck em dude

[trim dirge]

Does anything really have more than 3 buttons

[viscid helm]

i'd play feral

but that spec is never viable

[trim dirge]

Feral is pretty brain dead with brutal slash and clarity

[viscid helm]

then there is probably no word for any of the rogue specs

[raw veldt]

http://prntscr.com/j50458 should I go assa?

[lean coral]

i mean if you arent sin you're wrong

[raw veldt]

outlaw, just way too annoying gearing it

[gaunt moat]

@viscid helm what do you mean?

[trim dirge]

yeah idk what he was trying to say there

[viscid helm]

well if you call feral "brain dead"

what do you call a rogue

[trim dirge]

i mean i think all specs are pretty similar in complexity at this point, maybe only a couple slightly more

[viscid helm]

i mean rogue is at the level of BM hunters

Im not saying anything is "hard"

but still

[gaunt moat]

well devs intention is for subtlety to be more complex
which syris, btw, more buttons doesn't necessarily mean complexity.
and for assassination to be very simple.

[spare cloud]

asesinaron

[turbid oxide]

With brutal and clarity feral is so much easier than any of the rogue specs

[viscid helm]

sure

[trim dirge]

yeah i realize that i was just actually curious because i prefer having more buttons lol

[turbid oxide]

But that's when you pick the 2 easiest talents to use

[gaunt moat]

i prefer more "systems" that create some depth.
KB was a button, sure. but it was a whole system.

SoT was another system

i wish we could still have these things, but... seems that's not the intention.

[trim dirge]

yep that was really one of the only things fun i found about assassination in legion

[viscid helm]

wish they would bring back snapshotting instead of dumb shit like class buffs

[turbid oxide]

Azerite could bring those systems though

[viscid helm]

if they wanna bring something old back

yeh doubt that

azerite is gonna be tier set level stuff at best

[gaunt moat]

@turbid oxide maybe, but that would counteract their intention for assassination.

[viscid helm]

they wouldnt release stuff like that without testing

[gaunt moat]

so i doubt it

it seems that azerite traits are basically flat damage buffs

[viscid helm]

stuff that actually affects anything

exactly