even then, not sure if youd want the internal bleeding get NS effect or the 15% from potw for the NS bomb
#assassination
marble hemlock
lofty spoke
yo
shrewd night
lofty spoke
monka
opaque mural
i used to open wth alt+f4 to see if my keyboard was working
strange python
But if fails that means those two keys are broken, not necessarily the entire keyboard.
strange python
Is this the secret to thicc poison bombs
marble hemlock
secret to bombs is to not want them
its like that piece of lego that you desperately needed but you couldnt find it for like 15mins
and once you worked around it, you found 4 of them in less than 30seconds
opaque mural
had an eonar log where pb was up for like 40 seconds and all the bats/dogs where grouped
obviously did this trick
now scientists hate me for discovering this
strange python
My most glorious poison bomb was on mythic demonic inquisition when the blood dk mass gripped all the adds
opaque mural
oh boy
zenith rose
Nerdgazm
marble hemlock
think i once had a pull on hov-odyn with mantle+cinidaria where my first 4 finishers all procced bomb and i opened with like 12mil dps
marble hemlock
strange python
u guys do log analysis aswell? 😛
gaunt moat
DMi check the guide log analysis section to learn how to do some basic checks by yourself as well.
sick cradle
Does your opener change on Kingaroth?
Considering that you're not using vendetta or vanish until adds
quick ice
basically the same only with less energy and some more mutilating to make sure you have 4+ CP for each env
sick cradle
ok, thanks
lethal heart
you should use vendetta on pull
because if you play boots it's back up for add phase anyway
strange python
You still want tb and kb on cd asap since kb will just barely be off cd for adds
Also no... Vendetta wont have a 30s cd with boots
It will be up for every add after the first
sick cradle
oh, should I use boots on kingaroth?
wait...
"It will be up for every add after the first"
So should I use it on pull then?
sick cradle
but I can't use it inbetween adds, then it's on cd when add goes up
I don't have 3 MAss traits
shrewd night
Should be fine with two aswell
slim estuary
vend on cd or adds for kin?
spare cloud
Should be yeah
slim estuary
cant work out what i like
marble hemlock
i have 0 mass relics and vendetta goes down to pretty much exactly 1min cd on kingaroth
you dont use it on pull, use it on 1st add immediately when it spawns, and then use it on cd
and itll always be up exactly for the add-spawn
you may want to re-rupture the add before its dying to get the energy refund so you have more energy to spend to reduce the CD
sharp viper
@sick cradle boots can help you out with that, mantle + boots, save vendetta for the first add, afterwards you can use it on the boss and it will be up in time to use on the next add, together with vanish
marble hemlock
NS
spare cloud
I tried nightstalker and went for empowered ruptures
marble hemlock
if youre talking about kin
spare cloud
But played it so bad and cds didnt like up 
marble hemlock
you wanna NS the TB or the envenom, to take advantage of the increased damage taken debuff on the add
since its highest right after it spawns
spare cloud
I never checked hoe that works tbh
Ahh okay yeh well i just thought they take more dmg 🤷
marble hemlock
basically the add spawns with 25stacks that increase damage taken by 3% per stack, and loses a stack every second
ocne its at 0 stacks, it starts moving
shrewd night
I think me and slagg discussed it one day and got to the conclusion that NS envenom is 9001% better than the othe roptions
marble hemlock
so a NS tb or envenom in the first 3-4 seconds will do a lot more damage, compared to the rupture which deals damage over time
NS envenom is the better option damage wise for that one gcd, youd have to do the tb without mantle up though which might turn out to be a loss
shrewd night
So when Kinga casts his shit, 5 CP > Vanish > Vendetta > Envenom
shrewd night
TB doesnt proc PB
marble hemlock
i currently do 5cp rupture, vendetta, vanish, tb kb env mut env
quick ice
I vanish the env but otherwise the same cast order seli. Could be wrong, but it works ok
marble hemlock
yeah, the env is going to be a lot higher
but no 100% crit on tb/kb then :/
not sure which one is more important
shrewd night
Oh, youre assuming mantle
marble hemlock
mantle+boots, yes
shrewd night
Mantle 
quick ice
I (opinion once again) believe that the vanished env is best because you can fit 3 env into mantle window then, whereas if you vanish the TB, you only get 2 max
marble hemlock
and the 100% crit scales really well with the damage taken debuff on the adds
shrewd night
Mantle is godly on that fight, I still dont like it 😠
marble hemlock
yeah spooce, but those last 2 envs are benefitting less from the damage increase than the tb/kb
its really just something that you can calculate based on your stats
and noone bothered doing that, so everyone does it a bit differently
shrewd night
I go boots/bracers out of spite. And the fact I can doubledip execute damage with the last adds with our raiddps
But if I wasnt bad, Id totally go mantle/boots
marble hemlock
bracers are better for add-damage, so if your raid is struggling with that its better anyway
boots is just for more boss-damage
can just delay vendetta when youre not running boots, i do think mantle is kind of a must have on kingaroth though
shrewd night
Is it though?
spare cloud
Why are r1 mantle bracers then 
spare cloud
I heard hov is bis for kin
shrewd night
Like, the burst you get with cds should far outweigh the 30% from bracers
spare cloud
If bracers do more dmg then shouldnt they also do more dps 
marble hemlock
with bracers you do more damage on the adds
spare cloud
I really need my sarcasm shield on phone
marble hemlock
yeah
you get the burst either way when you delay vendetta, so bracers do provide more damage, its just that it "feels" better to have vendetta up once during the boss itself
shrewd night
wuh
spare cloud
You cant
marble hemlock
need cof
lethal heart
i waas pretty sure you could
lethal heart
but well was wrong then
spare cloud
You vendetta on first add in any case
I had to make that experience myself
Because i was too lazy to do quick maths
marble hemlock
logs on kin mostly come down to how many bombs you proc during the first 3 finishers on the add
shrewd night
what do you mean Seli. Arent we comparing Mantle/bracer to bracer/boots?
marble hemlock
you kinda brought it up, but for most people its between mantle+boots vs mantle+bracers
shrewd night
Oh, in that case, yeah
You deffo right
I was trying to argue the mantle towards no mantle argument
marble hemlock
not sure if theres an argument to be had for kingaroth
shrewd night
It aint
marble hemlock
😄
quick ice
our raid kills kin with spillover from adds so the execute of bracers is not worth in my situation
marble hemlock
thats how you have to kill him for good logs anyway
spare cloud
You def do less add dmg with boots bracers
marble hemlock
yeah
shrewd night
So we agree, we just talk over eachother
spare cloud
Only thing is that you get the juicy 30 hp vendetta on kin
shrewd night
😂
marble hemlock
pretty simple really, boots dont do anything to increase add-damage, mantle/bracer do 😄
spare cloud
And then you also get vendetta on last add
marble hemlock
i can see a point being made for boots+bracers if youre struggling with boss-damage and not add-damage
spare cloud
Can be worth for some kills tbh
marble hemlock
since that would be the best combo for pure boss-damage
spare cloud
But needs special setup
marble hemlock
so if you have like 3 monks/DHs that might be better
shrewd night
daz lacist
lethal heart
we do it only because we have 2 fury warriors
strange python
I, too, want carpal tunnel
strange python
I know, I know.
strange python
I thought it was a fury thing to joke about apm
shrewd night
Fury warrior, tappa tappa tappa tappa OH 30%? -mousewheelbound execute whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr-
shrewd night
spare cloud
For warrior
spare cloud
I miss mop/wod warrior
strange python
gross as in.. good or bad
lone junco
Bad.
Picked up the other ones in about 9 sec.
Frost was odd. With. fb x 15 before a proc.
strange python
I don't like how one of their cp generators is their highest damage
strange python
Imagine if mutilate was our highest
lone junco
I want to play feral but the builder spender is awkward.
shrewd night
Feral feels very good once you have legendary head
lone junco
Ww was pretty neat.
lethal heart
ww serenity
keen inlet
WW on alpha feels tasty
lone junco
Felt like I could find a rotation to not repeat presses with experience.
viscid helm
everything on alpha feels like shit
lone junco
I really dislike sub rotation. Would not enjoy learning it as a first spec.
strange python
Flowi?!
lethal heart
sub feels shit on alpha for sure
lone junco
Anyway. Beast made me lol
zenith cloak
I have a frostbolt counter on my Mage 24 is my highest even with 7 traits in the proc chance trait
strange python
I feel like judging a spec from the lvl 100 trials is kind of counterintuitive
viscid helm
blizzard really dropped the ball on BFA class tuning
lone junco
Affliction was out of the box fine.
lone junco
Yes
zenith cloak
U think the bfa class changes are bad?
solid nova
Its brighter
viscid helm
BFA class changes are
strange python
It's a fabulous lavender
lone junco
I like it better.
viscid helm
shit
zenith cloak
Oof
marble hemlock
youre a rabbit
ofc you like lavender
oh wait youre not
im stupid
i generally only read the first two letters of everybodies name and start assuming
zenith cloak
What is it about then are they like hella clunky or is it cause we have to get used to not using our artifacts
Them*
marble hemlock
what i meant to say is: youre playing exsang, ofc you like weird stuff
viscid helm
imagine this
lone junco
Fire mage feels gross. It's proc a mole.
lone junco
And mine is 110 930 ish
viscid helm
its a console game now
strange python
I actually really love fire mage
keen inlet
That hasn't been my experience on alpha tbh
marble hemlock
i generally dislike specs that deal most of their damage with a single ability or only do damage during their cds
keen inlet
more passives/etc were removed due to artifacts
shrewd night
How I missed Flowis hyperbole 
keen inlet
Actives still about the same
lone junco
I played eq wizard. With cast times. The instant flame shock style is dumb to me.
spare cloud
@marble hemlock Fury is both
viscid helm
spare cloud
🤔
zenith cloak
What really?
shrewd night
Lemme fix it for you flowi
keen inlet
I can fix it
glad ferry
hellooooooooooooooo boboboboboboboboboobhihihiih
viscid helm
They are actually clueless
strange python
hello
lethal heart
well
shrewd night
C L S S U S S M A S H
lethal heart
dont get too ahead
keen inlet
They didn't delete DH from the game forever
ftfy
full pecan
Hi guys, i am new here and i just got legendary shoulders. May i ask you for your opinion on my opener? :)
Garrote-mutilate-rupture-mutilate-vendetta&artifact-vanish&envenom-mutilate-envenom-mutilate-toxicblade end of crit window
viscid helm
azerite thingy
shrewd night
@full pecan Go read the guide
viscid helm
is irrelevant
solid nova
@full pecan 
keen inlet
@lethal heart It is but not finalized traits
strange python
@full pecan check the guide at the top for openers
viscid helm
it doesnt add anything
keen inlet
It's literally like NLC but upside down
lethal heart
ok
kindred wind
is it worth doing the BFA quests?
lethal heart
thats disappointing
kindred wind
I haven't played in a few months
shrewd night
There are BFA quests?
lethal heart
i mean i said that already 10 times in different places
keen inlet
The azerite traits for rogue for example basically give outlaw back Greenskins
shrewd night
marble hemlock
unless you consider "1 trait per spec" a choice
lethal heart
but i think they're cucking themselves and giving huge c hallenge to make specs feel rewarding and such
or even interesting
with all leggos gone
artifacts
even stupid small traits
that felt just good
sure some legendaries become talents, or even baseline maybe in some cases
prisma gull
Subjective I know, but which build do you find more enjoyable: poison or bleed?
strange python
I keep getting the impression that the "pruning" is what's making it interesting
which is. odd.
marble hemlock
like, azerite would be fun if you could choose similar to legendaries what bonuses you want to have
marble hemlock
but it really comes down to "what chest item has the best traits for your given spec"
zenith cloak
Well looking at the azurite armor I feel like raid pieces will give you traits that actually effects your rotation, the one piece we saw was a starter blue. So I’m hoping that with raid gear the traits in the armor will give people a new ability or some sort of other way to complicate each class
lethal heart
just gated behind rng
keen inlet
Lot of negativity in here this AM.
Just gonna say that although I dislike how they're handling azerite thus far, I do think most of the specs are workable on alpha, and alpha is 1-2 builds behind dev build, so
marble hemlock
theres going to be one chest that has the choice of azerite traits that provides the biggest increase to singletarget dps
same for the other 2 pieces
viscid helm
expecting to get artifact level gameplay from azerite armor
keen inlet
And I haven't seen the pruning that Flowi's complaining about, except again, losing passive traits
viscid helm
is delusional
supple hearth
Reposted from sub:
A wise player once told me...
When changes come around the bads qq
And the glads adapt.
that was back in like....tbc/wotlk
marble hemlock
fake news
strange python
What? So everyone should just shut their mouth and go with it?
zenith cloak
I’m not expecting I’m just really hoping, as of rn it seems very bland
viscid helm
Lets put it this way
keen inlet
@strange python Nah, but hyperbolic complaining and sky-is-falling doesn't do much
viscid helm
legion alpha
supple hearth
@strange python no you give constructive feedback to blizz and be patient when its only alpha
viscid helm
had artifact "skills" from the beginning
supple hearth
you complain when its live and they didnt listen
strange python
Fair enough.
viscid helm
to test them
marble hemlock
well
marble hemlock
they got plenty of constructive feedback during legion alpha
viscid helm
because nothing has been tested
marble hemlock
about legendaries/ap grind
viscid helm
They wouldnt just release artifact level "skills" that were not tested
supple hearth
but regardless - if they decide to leave it and have it go live. again. You can cry about it. and obviously nothing is happening. Or you can adapt and learn to perform well with the current circumstances
its just wasted energy to cry about it during alpha tho
marble hemlock
if theres a time to cry about stuff being shit, its during alpha though
supple hearth
nah
marble hemlock
because at least theres a chance they will reconsider
supple hearth
thats the time u need to be constructive
marble hemlock
if you do it during beta/once it hits live, chances are slim that blizz will react quickly
keen inlet
There's a difference between crying and helpful feedback
supple hearth
^
warm parcel
I mean youll see the actual zerite traits tmrw
solid nova
I was always told its good to cry sometimes 😦
warm parcel
With raid test
viscid helm
I mean the ship already sailed, its 4 months to release, expecting class overhauls at this point
is not going to happen
warm parcel
And theyre more advanced than just 5 ilvl
marble hemlock
both are important though, because just because you dont have feedback how they could improve the situation, you should still be able to tell them that the current system sucks
supple hearth
"WAAHHHH THIS SUCKS WHAT ARE YOU THINKING BLIZZ"
when you only see half the picture.
VS:
"hey blizz this feels incomplete, I think we need xyz to make it feel good"
gilded yacht
Telling them "this is shit" rather than "this is why it's shit" isn't helpful
marble hemlock
thats asking the playerbase to do blizzards job though, isnt it?
keen inlet
"qq pruning everything is shit" = crying
"With the loss of Greenskins, Outlaw lost a lot of its complexity and an exciting proc. Playing the spec now feels quite dull because of that loss and we need another proc-based feature to spice things up"
viscid helm
i think we all know blizzard doesnt actually listen to feedback
warm parcel
Nor do they listen to a channel like this...
keen inlet
They're listening
supple hearth
You'd be surprised at how many of the class discords blizz employees are in..
strange python
Hi Blizzard 👋
lethal heart
🕵
keen inlet
I mean
marble hemlock
anyway, i think while constructive feedback obviously has higher chances of giving them some food for thought, people saying "this gameplay doesnt feel good" should still be considered feedback
warm parcel
Sure
keen inlet
don = lore
warm parcel
But you havent seen more than the very first version of a green level azerite
marble hemlock
at the end of the day blizz devs get payed to come up with mechanics, not the players, so the players basically telling blizz how to fix the mess they themselves created feels "wrong"
keen inlet
don = ion
warm parcel
Dungeon/raid gear will have more advanced stuff all the way up to tier bonus like traits
keen inlet
the mystery continues
marble hemlock
ion jose
gilded yacht
Well of course if it feels bad, it should be expressed. If the Devs don't know what's making it bad, and the players don't explain it, they can't exactly... you know... fix it.
keen inlet
They've changed their development process, and timeline
viscid helm
artifact skills were in from the start and got changed constantly
keen inlet
If that weren't painfully obvious by now
vestal wren
the wowhead community class feedback was great
marble hemlock
what we see in alpha isnt an experiment that they can easily turn their backs on, its how they envision the game moving forward and the best we can hope for is some decent tuning on the numbers
keen inlet
@gilded yacht Something feeling bad isn't helpful.
Why it feels bad is tremendously helpful
gilded yacht
👆 my above comment
viscid helm
we are
keen inlet
and, what should be obvious:
Me saying "I think x is bad because y and z" does not guarantee that they agree, or that anything will happen
viscid helm
what you see is what you will get
keen inlet
Alpha is the new beta
marble hemlock
its still helpful in the way that you only need 1 decent constructive solution to a problem, and 50k people whining that the current way feels like shit, in order to have an idea how you could move into a different direction
if its just 5ppl saying it plays like shit, and 5 solutions, noone is going to care
keen inlet
Closed/open beta will be much shorter going forward, for "finalized" testing
they've said all this
this is not a secret
good lord
astral sundial
Hey, it is very clear in the guide by @gaunt moat and @warm parcel that using FoK on 2+ targets is an overall dps gain - what I am not sure about is, at what number of adds it is an increase in the dps done to the "main" target (to use FoK insted of muti) . anyone knows?
marble hemlock
is alpha a beta though?
lethal heart
have they said anything
about like
what raiding gives?
since no tier sets
what's the point of raiding whatsoever xd
vestal wren
azerite pieces are the new tier
lethal heart
do they give any class trinkets or what not
just for raiding
i'm guessing raiding will be best source of weapons since no relics aswell?
high ilvl weapons*
marble hemlock
cant remember the last time people gave blizzard a lot of shit for a mechanic, and plenty of constructive solutions, and blizz actually went ahead and dealt with it before it hit live
vestal wren
raiding will remain the source for the highest itemlvl
marble hemlock
usually things get dealt with after the fact nowadays
grizzled trail
Off topic about what u guys are talking about, but how accurate is raid bots top gear sim? simmed afew times and its telling me legend boots are higher dps than bracers which i thought were BiS
strange python
@astral sundial confused by your question a little but I would assume it would be a dps increase on the main target if you get 4-5cp per fok
zenith cloak
M+ does give hella Bis gear
warm parcel
Sim separates main target dps and overall
So it shows really easily even with raidbots
lethal heart
and by raiding i mean there mythic level obviously
viscid helm
like no joke, reading the official forums for NA/EU, every single post is about losing abilitites and only having like 2-3 buttons left
astral sundial
Thanks @warm parcel , never know that - I will try looking for it in the sim
marble hemlock
@grizzled trail i dont use the top gear sim, i usually do two individual sims with the two gear combinations i want to compare
im guessing thats what the topgear sim does already, so i would trust it
lethal heart
point is
you can run heroic and get same items
and titanforging exists and isnt even that rare
strange python
You can also use the addon simpermut which lets you sim a lot more gear than raidbot's top gear limitations.
marble hemlock
if you want to "bis" gear your character, sets and trinkets are the only reason you go into raids nowadays
lethal heart
i wouldnt consider heroic raiding myself
strange python
In fact simpermut is only limited by raidbot's sim timing out for taking too long
marble hemlock
while sets disappear, azerite pieces kind of function as sets since the traits available are pre-determined and always the same
lethal heart
since it takes 2 hours 1st day of release to clear it
whereas mythic
for even a decent guild
it takes a month to clear it
marble hemlock
so it might very well be the same in BfA, if the set-azerite pieces have better traits than non-raid pieces
zenith cloak
I was p sure they said the raid azurite armor will have the best armor traits u can have at that time
viscid helm
I'm just waiting for t1 azerite to give CoF effect and t2 giving 5% garrote dmg
so i can raid all expansion in t1
marble hemlock
hows that different to set-pieces then? 🤔
viscid helm
that you will need multiple of
prob gonna want 5x the same chest
as rogue
one for each spec and then some AoE/ST
marble hemlock
yeah
lost horizon
Honestly though legendaries being equippable items made for interesting gearswapping options in M+, which I liked
vestal wren
azerite pieces just open up more slots you dont need one
lost horizon
Lot of other bigger problems from them obviously though
marble hemlock
yeah
while the legendary-acquisition and early-legion value of legendaries was fucked up for the majority of legion
vestal wren
you have 3 azerite pieces + the neck instead of weapons, legendaries and tier pieces
marble hemlock
the system itself is fairly interesting, which is why they keep it around
lost horizon
Definitely acquisition being the big killer
vestal wren
so 4 instead of 7-9 (if we count weapons as 1)
astral sundial
not sure I am waiting for the moment only trinkets and weapons are the only drops that counts again..
marble hemlock
thats a good thing though, i always felt like way too many items were locked in and never had a chance of ever being replaced unless i got the same item TF
vestal wren
also there was no statement made that we are able to use 3 azerite pieces at the same time, we might be limited to 1 or 2
marble hemlock
currently you have weapons, 4sets, 2legendaries and trinkets too
vestal wren
you can wear 2 tier sets so tier set is 4-6 pieces
lost horizon
It's definitely good to be less locked in
marble hemlock
for some classes, yes
i mean as assa, the only interesting pieces were rings, neck and belt
vestal wren
every class can do it, how efficient it is depends on the set boni
marble hemlock
since the other slots were usually locked in with any of the other "mandatory" items
lost horizon
I just hope they don't implement the pieces such that you need multiple to be able to use different traits
vestal wren
also it might be in conflict with legendary choice
lost horizon
Bummer
viscid helm
idd
vestal wren
there were 2 statements, 1 was that you need to farm multiple, secound was that you are able to re-spec them
warm parcel
In an interview
marble hemlock
frankly, for how big of a core-mechanic azerite is going to be, im somewhat scared that we didnt even get to see a glimpse of how exactly its going to play out yet
vestal wren
so there is no final verdict for now
warm parcel
So can we not just fucking cry about the game
viscid helm
no
quick ice
I think there was a change of mind between the two statements, because they're 100% contradictory?
warm parcel
No theyre not
viscid helm
ded game
warm parcel
Interview they said you can respec them, we dont know how yet
That said we want you to have multiple sets instead of respeccing
Thats their vision
quick ice
then I misunderstood them instead of being contradictory, fair enough
viscid helm
hopefully they confirm PL/no trading next
warm parcel
Apparently it was also said that ilvl restriction will be back for bfa
marble hemlock
id like to see some of the "strongest" azerite bonuses
warm parcel
And is only gone for rest of legion
lost horizon
Ilvl restriction?
echo estuary
We need to put forth a motion in favour of Tom to exonerate him from his sins. #bringbacktom
warm parcel
Which makes splits more difficult for first tier
viscid helm
and possibly everyone is forced into personal loot
quick ice
^
quick ice
🌈 the more you know
lost horizon
I definitely still got locked out of trading some shit in antorus a few months ago
viscid helm
at least thats what weak keeps telling me
warm parcel
It was removed around the time essence vendor became a thing
Ye you can trade anything rn
marble hemlock
splits are going to be less about trading gear, and more about squeezing the most gear out of bonusrolls/PL on any given character, to then field the 20 best/luckiest ones
quick ice
makes me kinda glad my guild isn't good enough to care about splits
lost horizon
^
zenith cloak
^
marble hemlock
honestly, the whole "toxic ML being a shitty ML" has kind of disappeared ever since you cant force ML unless youre in a guild group
viscid helm
idd they should leave guilds alone
lost horizon
PM?
marble hemlock
unless were talking about shitty loot-councils, at which point id just suggest to find a guild thats not using a lootcouncil...
quick ice
I'm going to assume PM is ML in a different language?
viscid helm
its dumb af trying to force PL on guilds
marble hemlock
yeah, my bad
lethal heart
marble hemlock
not necessarily let them do it however they want, but give us some choices please
zenith cloak
I agree with that I don’t like PL being forced in guild settings
quick ice
currently in a guild running EPGP (old!), which is a bit odd but still works alright
lost horizon
The ML restricted to guilds only seemed like a pretty decent solution
quick ice
having tried being in a guild that used PL, it was a pretty weird way to distribute loot
marble hemlock
i disliked not being able to use ML in our friends&family raids where plenty of people had friends or alts on different servers
quick ice
and it usually took longer than a good ML setup anyway
marble hemlock
and we were basically forced to use PL because it wasnt a guildgrp anymore
lost horizon
My raid uses PL, it sucks sometimes but meh
marble hemlock
but i can understand why they had to do this tight of a restriction, and i hope they realize that its enough to contain like 95% of the toxic behaviour
lost horizon
Yeah we just put open rolls on shit we don't need
And roll out of different amounts for offspec/transmog
zenith cloak
I do council with my guild atm and it works really well and has been all xpac
marble hemlock
its both scath
frozen pecan
I didn't check the forums but didn't they get any backlash because of the PL thing?
marble hemlock
loot is both a reward and a carrot on a stick
good raid/guildleaders realize and use both
some abuse one or the other
but thats not an issue with the loot-system, its an issue with human beings
and blizz cant fix the latter, no matter how hard they try
midnight latch
I waited for that
marble hemlock
well
catering to small minorities while fucking the silent majority
has been the new fashion
for a few years now
hasnt it?
forest agate
Not really
shrewd night
Nah
marble hemlock
not speaking about wow specifically, but about life in general :p
forest agate
Then yes
zenith cloak
Everyone is a little toxic at times
shrewd night
If it was they would give legendary progress in lfr the past expansions
marble hemlock
the issue isnt an issue anymore for that majority though, reading through forums and people still complain about having ML in PUGs and how bad it is, evne though that hasnt been possible for years now
shrewd night
The problem being scath one size doesn't fit all when it comes to loot system
quick ice
I mean people still manage to be super toxic with PL as well
look at people copping shit over trading/not trading loot in pugs that they do/don't need
viscid helm
yeh ikr
marble hemlock
thats what really bugs me about the PL vs ML discussion, there was no need to bring it up in the first place because blizzard managed to find a working middle-ground
forest agate
People will bitch about anything on the internet
lethal heart
do you neeeeeeeeeeeed
quick ice
I have no problem with that tbh @viscid helm
zenith cloak
Yea there’s a lot of times where people DE the gear they don’t need in the face of the person that needed it
shrewd notch
i just leave the loot on the corpse
quick ice
cache/tmog, yeah
viscid helm
i really like LFR coven
zenith cloak
LOL wtf is wrong with you
quick ice
or helping someone's shitty alt that's already done n/h
flowi is a special person and we love them for it
marble hemlock
i like PUG HC coven
viscid helm
lightning phase is literally the highlight of the day
pop sprint
and destroy the raid
zenith cloak
Sprint feint potion
forest agate
🤔
zenith cloak
Lmao imma try that today
marble hemlock
sprinting in 2018 when theres skystep 🤔
viscid helm
im poor
zenith cloak
^^
lethal heart
pug hc coven
when my touch of death deals 80k damage
i go insta soak blade
or when my vanish dfa deals 100k damage
saame
zenith cloak
My favorite part is in hc coven pug with a DK in th group and he pulls the Morgan on add into a giant group of people
lethal heart
rofl
marble hemlock
just gotta make sure the add is still on top of their corpse
lethal heart
didnt see that one coming
solid nova
Priests troll life gripping 😡
lethal heart
priest life grip over well on elisande
solid nova
I heroic leaped through it more times than i care to admit
zenith cloak
One of the DH in my guild was going for a parse on aggramar and our disc gripped him Into a knocback and he flew off the platform ruining his maybe top 50 parse. He ended up leaving the guild that night not sure why though
lethal heart
🤔
quick ice
yeah I can't imagine why 🤔
marble hemlock
sounds like a fun guild
solid nova
Normal raid bants
lethal heart
in my guild healers dont heal me on coven which ends up me being frozen
that's hella banter too
zenith cloak
It was heroic farm night so the priest was having some fun I don’t blame him tho the DH was an asshole
solid nova
Inefficient farm nights 😠
zenith cloak
Oof
marble hemlock
depends on where youre at with your guild
if youre kinda short on time and want to get farm done quickly to start progress, moves like that are somewhat annoying
when its a pure farmnight though, i dont mind
quick ice
within reason, dicking around on farm is ok
marble hemlock
i still annoy a few casters that are too greedy dps-wise on imonar by stepping onto them when i get sleep
theres few bosses where you can fool around like that, i like doing that :p
lethal heart
i think i legit exploited imonar last week
i was mid dfaa when i technically got debuff
quick ice
I, despite the fact I've been doing it the whole time, still scare our melee when I cloak sleep canister
lethal heart
but i didnt have it on my debuff bars
marble hemlock
like skystepping after a specific ranged dps on the flames of reorigination miniboss before varimathras 😮
zenith cloak
Can u follow immonar with dfa like u could on maiden
quick ice
mostly because every couple of weeks I forget I used cloak on bridge and sleep them all 😄
I've tried, he doesn't go fast enough
you wind up maybe 1/4 of the bridge at best
marble hemlock
you can skystep ahead of him though
when he lands on the next platform, he does a knockback that knocks you back the entire bridge
but you can just step to counter-act it
can troll your grp by doing that and interrupt, imonar will meet your raid halfway across the bridge and most likely wipe you 😮
lethal heart
yea you can do it with warlock teleport aaswell
odd hatch
Hop on this disc for the first time in months just to see a guide to trolling lmaooo. Worth
marble hemlock
rogues have always been good at ruining other peoples days
zenith cloak
I’m def killing the raid with sky step, All I’m gonna day is oops
As I’m gliding down the bridge gonna hittem with the “oops”
marble hemlock
just gotta make sure youre ahead of him when he crosses the bridge, otherwise the traps will spawn under you and youll immediately trigger like 5 tripwires 😄
manic vigil
That would be oops as well huh
odd hatch
So do you only get knocked back if you're ahead of him or if you're on the bridge at all?
marble hemlock
when youre on the platform with him after he crossed the bridge
or close to the end of the bridge already
he does a huge knockback, basically knocks you all the way back the entire bridge, but you can just cancel the knockback with a shadowstep
zealous dew
can't play sub in dungeons, fok sake tanks pulling 3 mobs
wtf are they afraid to die
odd hatch
Ahh I wish I could do that but I'm always a runner 😢
solid nova
@zealous dew If i pull too many mobs they might hit me 😦
zealous dew
i play like shit anyway
solid nova
Tricks and pull for them
lone junco
yeah. I just chill
solid nova
Might just be inexperienced
lone junco
stealth till stacked
lone junco
I love that pull.
zealous dew
mobs shotting ppl left and right
lone junco
our tank is getting it down.
but the big rock guy is really cool on raging.
we finally got our Warlock to do an arcway.
zealous dew
i just stick to sin for NL
lone junco
Holy shit it was amazing. he burst a 42m pack, and was like "yeah, but i didnt do anything"
i guess he wanted to press more buttons.
zealous dew
😄
lone junco
here i am mashing away barely getting 9m as sin,
15m as sub with a monster combo
my lock wont be ready for legion m+
a bit sad
lone junco
eeee
I played the free 100 boost. Feral is out.
beast made me actually lol
how in the world does our beast die in stains
like they dont need to stand flat for anything right?
strange python
Nope
lone junco
jesus
strange python
Hi guys ! I have a real problems on my rogue, there is a low dps, so if a rogue can analize all that logs this would be great ! Only on Private Chat
solid nova
I gotchu, can see it straight away fam
zealous dew
omfg that opener
empty jungle
xd
wise frigate
Publicly shame the man. Or woman. Or horse.
lone junco
straight out the gate. 960 shoulder bracer 2m is on par with his simc avg imo
"low dps"
we about to compare a 969 with a 960?
zealous dew
that vanish though
lone junco
still. I wouldnt consider 2m at 960 low.
zealous dew
lost horizon
^
There's definitely improvement to be made, but keep in mind he did ask to cover it in PM
lone junco
fix this.
lost horizon
That being said he posted it publicly so it's gonna get taken apart publicly
@strange python if you want shit handled in DMs you're best off not posting logs until you've started a convo in DMs
lost horizon
Definitely more issues than just gear
solid nova
Yeah, ive already thrown him an analysis and screenshots of errors etc
vernal adder
Stop he is already dead
strange python
I didnt say i'm professional guys, if i come ehre this is for help, not for any taunting or something similar
lone junco
its ok man. the real deal is to compare vs simc avg.
if you are within 5% it is gear.
solid nova
He's not taunting you mate, Noobes advice is solid
lost horizon
Trust it could've been far worse, this is constructive
lone junco
if you are like 10% under, it is rotational
strange python
but i have a shit trinekt ^-^
lost horizon
Honestly though I wouldn't compare against simc
strange python
10x argus and Blizzard didnt give me !
lone junco
it happens.
midnight latch
@zealous dew 78 mil thats cute
lone junco
make sure you use your env at 4cp or 5
meaning. in the shoulder, env mut env mut env
your double mut is wasting the shoulder
align your vendetta and vanish. in the log i saw, sould mean holding the 2min vanish until like 3:30
zealous dew
lol
lone junco
use this opener
strange python
I can't, because in some situations, i have like 45 sec vanish and vendetta up
what should i do ?
lone junco
you delay the vanish.
it is a 2min delay. so if the fight is 3 mins. you use at open, then at a vendetta.
strange python
Ok, i dio vendetta like 15sec vanish ? or less ?
lone junco
vanish goal is 3 env. every time.
with vendetta, and preferrably TB before the vanish
your crucible traits are missing from raidbots so I cant get a real output. but I would guess your gear is 1.9m range
meaning, you def arent doing horribly
@strange python read the guide. then think about your vanish as the majority of your dps.
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE
uptimes are easy. mashing Tb and 2 or 3 env is easy. if you cold vanish you will parse blue
sullen mountain
assuming both have BiS legos, a 969 could have shit statted gear and a 960 do more dps
lone junco
1000 argus is a big diff
sec
my Shoulder bracer set is 962. simc at 2.0m. so doing 1.8-1.9 at 960 isnt that far out.
trinket alone 0 users.
120k.
so you cant just see dps and think "bad"
strange python
I dont have that trinket
lone junco
I KNOW YOU DONT
thats why your dps is lower than others at the same ilvl
I have a real problems on my rogue, there is a low dps
im saying, its not that low. your gear just isnt done yet.
sullen mountain
yeah your other trinket also sucks dick
sullen mountain
i was talking about the mine thing
lone junco
strange python
BUT ! if vendetta is up and vanish is about 1 minute elft
lone junco
dont delay vendetta
strange python
if the boss will die, i use vendetta, if not, i hold vendetta
solid nova
If the boss is going to die before your vanish is up, then you should use your vendetta
You just need to use your own judgement for that call
lone junco
if the boss is going to die soon and you have vanish, but no vendetta, vanish away. but try to use TB before it.
if the boss is going to die soon and you dont have vanish, you vendetta on cd and the fight is just over.
floral loom
do rogues ever try to slow Flame of Taeshalach adds on M Agg?
before starting dmg on embers?
lone junco
@strange python last thing im going to say.
knock this shit off
use your TB. do not delay for Kb
lone junco
Pool prior to TB being ready.
use TB then squeeze in 2 or 3 env.
solid nova
strange python
Icy veins says : use TB and KB both, or 5s sdelay
lone junco
IV is wrong
strange python
so i delay the KB to use both
lone junco
use TB. You miss out on 2 or 3 occurances of TB by delaying
use tb with 2 or 3 env.
keep env up 100% during Kb
vanish with vendetta and 3 env.
strange python
but if KB is like ~5-7 sec ?
lone junco
disregard the TB kb interaction
just use TB before Kb if they are up at the same time.
tb kb micro management is for people squeezing out a better orange parse.
like 92 to 95 etc
not for 65% range.
lone junco
do the things I said, and you will get purple easy
Dont hold your TB.
fix your open.
Vanish properly
solid nova
Then please, read the resources available to you that are pinned in the discord and take into account the advice you've been given.
lone junco
afk
and btw. youll never be orange without the argus trinket. its worth 120k dps.
(if you keep using that fel mine thing)
so find an EOC
or a Hunger.
sullen mountain
92 isnt orange 😮
sullen mountain
i told you it was bad
lone junco
I said it was bad.
strange python
😭
lone junco
thats the reason I simmed the swap
strange python
pl me lol^^
strange python
i try every fucking week
next raid, i do a request to blizzard to give me this trinket
lone junco
yeah, eoc is even at like -15 or so
sullen mountain
well hey look at it this way
once you do get the trinket itl be like 960+ hahaha
lone junco
@strange python just farm up trinkets with the vendor.
if you get a crit or mastery 935+ use it
strange python
uhh, aman thul vision is better ?
lone junco
im not going to answer that
learn to use raidbots.
and sim your trinket combos.
else you would see that your trinket is only good in 10target cleave in M+ if no one moves.
lone junco
i dont know what that means.
strange python
sry i dont speak eglish very well
sullen mountain
youll get the gear eventually just learn the spec in the meantime
lone junco
farm upper k 15's a few times this week. and pray for eoc
strange python
the important fact is my skill has to be increased
marble hemlock
i dont get why youre so upset actually
strange python
already done ^^
sullen mountain
15 uppers are fucking cancer this week
lone junco
your performance is blue. you parse blue.
fix your rotation, youll be purple by ilvl. get a better trinket, and fix your rotation, and youll be orange by ilvl.
strange python
Thank you so much
strange python
Okay i have a last question : refresh dotsd are very important for the delay ?
example i forgot refresh garrot
or tupture
rupture
lone junco
read the guide. if your english isnt good enough to read it, someone can clarify specific parts.
and someone prob speaks french
but other than "maintain rupture" I dont have any comment.
strange python
Alright, thats clear
lone junco
dont let it drop, and recast somewhere less than pandemic range
strange python
Again, thank you !
lone junco
I should get a patreon or paypal for log review.
strange python
how much
sullen mountain
link your logs noobe
strange python
I know :p
solid nova
Really but not really cough cough
strange python
yeah link your logs !
lone junco
roast my exang. Ill love it.
point out the part where i garrote like 6 times in 10 sec
lone junco
strange python
You love rupture
lost horizon
@lone junco how old is that log? I'm on mobile
sullen mountain
i mean theyre decent at best.. and you havent even done mythic
lone junco
of course i havent done mythic.
@lost horizon 3/20. were done with this tier.
so thats prob my last log
lone junco
its fine.
the 2p at 915/920 beast 960/960
the shoulder and snd were just for fun.
most of these are well above my simc avg
honest pelican
well isn't it a lovely day, got my heroic WF tier helm earlier. so now im nearly set once i get mantle of asssasins (leggo crown/valeera legs right now) wearing 2pc also. 4pc seems to sim a decent amount higher
lost horizon
You have to beat your simC average significantly if you want to parse
lone junco
my shoulder/bracer simc is like 1.98 so hitting 1.979 was fine by me
lost horizon
I honestly don't recommend looking at simC output compared to raid dmg often if ever
lone junco
snd is the only one I tanked, but bleh.
i disagree. how in the world do you know if it is you or the gear?
lost horizon
Is that 1.98 for the same fight length though?
sullen mountain
yeah unless you choose your sim options like exactly how you know every fight will go then its not 100% reliable
its just a nice ballpark to look at
lone junco
of course.
lost horizon
It's just not something to advocate as a go-to
lone junco
thats the whole point of a sim.
lost horizon
Nor should it be used to evaluate your performance past initial expectations
sullen mountain
basically unless youre significantly below your sim then you know youre not glaringly messing up your rotation
lost horizon
Sin is also one of the specs that 'sims low'
Compared to what you should be putting out
Just like how fury sims assuming insane execute time
But if you don't get that sweet execute phase, rip
lone junco
thats why I say if you can be within 5% of your sim avg, you are off to a right start
sullen mountain
yeah for sure
lone junco
ive prob done 1000 log reviews for other people here
lost horizon
Sure, but for example you compared your logs to your simC, I think that's unreasonable
Since you know what you're doing
lone junco
drifting cloud
exang cant highroll as much as poison tho
lost horizon
It's a good benchmark to check when you're just trying to get a general grasp of how someone's doing
sullen mountain
does he know what hes doing if his only 95%+ parse is on eonar 🤔
lone junco
thats why i like it
lost horizon
Yeah exsang is a different beast
@sullen mountain eonar's the only fight that matters man
sullen mountain
hahah def
lost horizon
At <960 though... GL fighting for all ilvl parses
lone junco
plus, I jerk myself to the ilvl parses anyway.
lost horizon
Especially if you're not playing poison
W/poison you could at least pray for PB procs to carry you
sullen mountain
yeah that is quite a masochistic spec to play right now
lone junco
yeah, i dont pray.
lost horizon
Honestly ilvl parses trigger me
lone junco
thats fine.
lost horizon
No discredit but they're such a pain
lone junco
bell curves matter.