how bored one must be to play 4 rogues
#assassination
stark heart
gaunt moat
can you teach me finnish real quick?
spare cloud
ugh
chrome tuskBOT
:game_die: rip rtb :game_die:
wild cipher
Guys, opinions on some Netherlights. Same iLvl. Currently got Dark Sorrows -> Balanced Blades. New Relic offers Shadowbind -> Gushing Wounds.
Would you stay with current, or change to new?
shrewd night
BB because mutilate is bae
quartz rune
I would sim it
viscid helm
Doubt there is any scenario where GW beats BB
spare cloud
bleed?
wild cipher
Poison build
spare cloud
Yeah well look at what thuly said
vestal wren
rogue master race
warm parcel
Rog is just likely a staple for pve
devout radish
!stats
warm parcel
And we already have mages
stark heart
mage 
viscid helm
Mayb i can play feral in bfa
shrewd night
But... Why
viscid helm
Cos rogue is shit in BFA
gaunt moat
that's why naya keeps cheap shot on bars
viscid helm
The pruning has gone to far
spare cloud
Wait notter you dont play the hemorrhage internal bleeding?
spare cloud
Hemo internal bleeding tb dfa
gaunt moat
i just want an ability called eternal bleeding
spare cloud
grind moroes
lethal heart
it's most meme trinket ever
spare cloud
lethal heart
think i have like 970 socket
midnight latch
@gaunt moat that exists already
pvp
kidney shot applies bleed or some shit
I would like abilities like "to the last drop..."
the last tick of ur rupture is multiplied by x%
x% is based of the time rupture was applied to the boss and a fixed value which is multiplied by the seconds
spare cloud
too complex
spare cloud
You shat on my dreams by not editing my pictures
midnight latch
spare cloud
this is just payback
midnight latch
dude its in the works
trust
I have 6 images in queue
will be finish today
have patitions
spare cloud
sharp viper
wtb 985 eoc :/
sharp viper
if you sexually identify as liquids
spare cloud
then youre just fluid
midnight latch
we should move this to off-topic before mods kill us
sharp viper
:angeryblush:
spare cloud
no 
warm parcel
before jose kills you*
sharp viper
not if you make him an avatar asap
spare cloud
Don angery
shrewd night
gib angrykoffing
midnight latch
gimme source image in DMs and I see what I can do
viscid helm
Can you make me angery
midnight latch
lemme try
midnight latch
@viscid helm Ur RL told me U have to raid 5days 6h each for the remaining weeks of the expansion. U are not allowed to dodge. He also updated ur internet connection so it doesnt crap out
angry yet?
midnight latch
@warm parcel I dunno man messing around with ur avatar always cracks me up
warm parcel
Same ๐
midnight latch
@viscid helm in all seriousness link source image in dms and I will do it later
shrewd night
No 
midnight latch
#off-topic btw lets move bois
prisma gull
Hey guys new rogue here. Without shoulder leggo is subterfuge the better choice? And if so does it alter the opener to not use vanish on boss fights?
shrewd night
Without T20 nightstalker is better
afaik
Although this should be covered in the guide
spare cloud
and with subterfuge you use garotte when its in pandemic window with vanish
to have a full duration subterfuge carrot
shrewd night
๐ฅ
sharp viper
both subterfuge and nightstalker are close without t20
nightstalker pulls ahead with shoulders obviously
prisma gull
Alright cool.
I can't seem to find anything about when to use nightstalker or subterfuge on the guide.
And when I say new rogue I mean 'dinged 110 3 days ago and have 879 ilevel' so no tier pieces, no leggos. But just trying to be the best I can with what I got :p
shrewd night
Thats not a concern for you to focus on. Beig the best with what you got means nothing when your gear changes every hour.
Although, good sentiment
๐
quartz depot
lads, how do i become slightly less shit apart from improving my poison bomb skills https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aHbV32t7TWAgBP4h#fight=27&type=damage-done
quick ice
5% more rupture uptime would help
spare cloud
I can look at it in a hour or so
shrewd night
Pop prolonged earlier in execute for higher uptime
glad ferry
bork bark
shrewd night
Although Im going to check another log because comparing vari logs depends on strats
quartz depot
yeah the thing is i think i'm doing everything perfectly, but if i was doing that i'd be getting at least 95 percentiles
shrewd night
tbh
Like
Im checking my own logs and comparing to yours for similar ilevel and killtime
And we are within 20k of eachother
quartz depot
maybe that just means we're both shit?
shrewd night
At least Im getting purps
Nah, for real though, you look good. Though pray for some PBs on melee adds or some shit
glad ferry
on what boss
shrewd night
Vari
glad ferry
vari mythic or heroic?
shrewd night
Mythic duh
quartz depot
i mean i got all 99s in heroic so i dont give a shit about that
glad ferry
yeah ik
quartz depot
on other bosses
shrewd night
tell your logger to get garothi as well on logs reeee
quartz depot
ye but 95s should still be achieveable without insane pb rng tho
shrewd night
Tarren mill right?
quartz depot
glad ferry
too bad im at work and cant look at it cause it's blocked LUL
shrewd night
I guess we are both shit if thats the case liethe
To me high purps are acceptable for regular performance, while oranges are there for the PBs
quartz depot
shit spec then
shrewd night
warm parcel
Parsing on top is really something for good kill times good gear and of course rng
You dont need 18% pb but its not just how good youy are
spare cloud
I don't have all 99's on heroic ๐ญ
quartz depot
well heroic is just get a good group and you get 99s
if you're mythic geared that is
apart from argus
you need a shit group for that
and half the raid dead on adds
steep obsidian
impossible unless you set up your group specificall for it
or take a bunch of shitty players who do 0 dps mebbe
im good at scrollin up
i actually got a 99 on pk just coz i got chain pbombs even going up in the portals
shrewd night
14% pb for the rank 23 parse I had back in the day ๐
jovial kite
4% pb for rank 1 mythic back in the day ๐
spare cloud
Not playing WoW back then ๐
warm parcel
rank 1 exsangs in tos ๐
fickle pecan
is it smart to pull energy before TB is off CD in order to get those envenoms out?
shrewd night
E X S A N G 
quick ice
I liked exsang tbh
jovial kite
Exsang is your daddy
solemn shard
With the shoulders rotation where it says in the Ravenholdt Guide "Envenom till mantle expires" does that still mean 4-5cp Envenoms or is that just Mutilate->Envenom->Mutilate->Envenom?
warm parcel
Thats what happens with mantle
solemn shard
I know what happens with it im asking do you 4-5cp Envenoms or just Mutilate->Envenom->Mutilate->Envenom?
warm parcel
Again go and see what happens when you muti with mantle
solemn shard
oh got it now since its always 4cp
warm parcel
Ye
warm parcel
Only if you get parried on your muti
Will you get 2 or 3
so just stand behind boss
solemn shard
in that situation would you 2-3cp envenom?
warm parcel
no
solemn shard
okies thanks
What is the kill times where I should use boots instead of shoulders?
are*
warm parcel
Honestly dont really care enough to know.
Id guess if boss dies 2 sec before your vanish were up
But if you want some numbers answers youd sim your gear setups with exact kill times
solemn shard
ok
cold spoke
honestly you need like 30% pb damage to parse 
desert vault
Just got into mythic Coven, finally, does Cloak remove the lightening under your feet debuff?
I thought I cast it once last night and it seemed to remove it, just wasn't totally sure
desert vault
oh ok I thought when I cast cloak it removed the animation from under my feet so I wasn't sure
vapid moth
Actually it's the other way around
People can touch you and not die. If you touch anyone after cloak is off you will die
desert vault
So really just save Cloak for crappy storm spawns and the marching add dudes?
warm parcel
well at least on our raid our rogue just cloaks and kills half the raid
vapid moth
Yeah. Or if you see someone running at you with lightning lol
desert vault
It is fun when someone comes barreling at you and you are like ... uhhh, stop, stop, STOP!
stark heart
and that rogue is you, weak? 
desert vault
I was surprised at how easy Coven is really, well it is basically a comp right. Right comp = win. Wrong comp = lose.
vapid moth
True
keen inlet
You can kinda tell
looking at certain classes/specs log history
who gets benched for Coven
heh
vapid moth
Don Jose is finally an actual don
vestal wren
:/
desert vault
I'll have a spot, good for interupts! ๐
keen inlet
๐
desert vault
and I'm typically rather reliable for mechanics
stark heart
doesn't matter
Affli can do all you can do but more efficiently
and some on top
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
desert vault
3 locks + 2 spriest = win against Coven is what I've noticed. We've got 3 good locks, just missing the rest.
stark heart
think we had just 3 lock and no sp
keen inlet
I worry, because they've discussed wanting particular classes/specs to shine in certain spots in BFA
stark heart
vestal wren
coven with dot classes, aggi with dk's ๐
keen inlet
I feel like we could see a lot more benching/role-rock in bfa if that holds true
desert vault
We have 3 DKs as well, so hopefully are in decent shape
vapid moth
Well. You can't bench a rogue
keen inlet
Somebody's gotta keep it warm
stark heart
of course you can
prisma gull
No one wants a bench like I do!
stark heart
that is what happened on Coven
vestal wren
you can bench a rogue
vapid moth
Alright
vestal wren
quite easily
viscid helm
weak literally BM'ing himself
vapid moth
Rogue is least likely to be benched
keen inlet
"Hey <rogue> step out for this fight"
vapid moth
Out of all melee
viscid helm
why
desert vault
I'm just mad I guilted myself into swapping to adds on Vari instead of ignoring them like the other rogues in my group ๐ฆ
stark heart
you don't need to immune ARgus now
vestal wren
rogue is only needed if you need the extra survivability or cloak/feint to soak
stark heart
so you can bring anything
vestal wren
so content design will decide if you need a rogue at all
stark heart
yeah I know
keen inlet
The issue is that while blizzard's fight/mechanics design has improved over the years, they still struggle at giving and taking in a single fight.
As in,
Take -> one mechanic is particularly bad for melee
Give -> To compensate, melee do far better in p2 etc
It's usually more one boss gives, the next boss takes, etc
vestal wren
melee is unavoidable behind in design
viscid helm
blackhand as UH DK
vestal wren
unless they would limit ranged to be not able to cast in close range
viscid helm
was the dream fight
keen inlet
Not saying that's easy to do, btw. It's the same vein as Ulduar hardmodes--I get why they didn't continue that. It'd be hard to continue designing fights with triggers like that
stark heart
I think it's possible to make fight where melee has their own share of things to do and ranged theirs
vestal wren
i am also not sure how they want to balance m+ as that will be a tough goal
stark heart
but it would be hard to come up with whole raid of such bosses all the time
viscid helm
no one cares heidi
cold spoke
where melee and ranged has to split and do exactly same thing
viscid helm
vestal wren
i dont get that
stark heart
vestal wren
if both have to do the same thing e.g. run away from boss, ranged has again a advantage etc.
viscid helm
cold spoke
it was an example 
stark heart
it's just big trash boi who suddenly splits in 2
cold spoke
you guys are not very kind
stark heart
Flowi's influence
viscid helm
vestal wren
if it comes to mechanics melee will unavoidable be behind. this means balancing should make melee have advantages over ranged dps to compensate.
cold spoke
they tried that in the past and it never worked
stark heart
or you just make like they do now
cold spoke
remember melee in dragon soul having more AP ?
viscid helm
what was wrong with melee in NH
vestal wren
helya was designed good for melees
cold spoke
nothing, melee dps in nh was sick
vestal wren
yet you usually palyed with very little melees
stark heart
helya was a good example of fair fight I think
stark heart
I disagree that buffing melee dps is a way to go tho
well it's hard to find a clear advantage for melee
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
but you can create it
see Guldaddy
vestal wren
only advantage is movement
cold spoke
buff melee 
vestal wren
as you can dps while moving
but then -> there are ranged specs that can do that also
stark heart
they still lose from moving, you lose nothing
vestal wren
thats right
stark heart
I think they could do something but again it's hard
vestal wren
you could punish ranged dps hard
stark heart
they don't do shields mobs anymore, dunno why
vestal wren
but that will never happen
cold spoke
shield mobs?
stark heart
when they take 0 damage from certain angle
vestal wren
i assume the shield thing is gone due to bugs
stark heart
like in Arcway
upper schooner
I've been away for a while, was wanting to get back into mythic+ runs, what spec are people normally running now days? (yes im looking for the easy way out rather than google) ๐
cold spoke
worms on guldan had 50% damage boost if inside the circle no?
keen inlet
@upper schooner Sub's a great choice for M+. Sin sometimes in higher keys.
keen inlet
Ppl make outlaw work, but personally I'd just go sub.
upper schooner
ty @keen inlet
vestal wren
i dont say do both
stark heart
I say do nothing of it
cold spoke
i think its fine like it is now
stark heart
yes but I think it's design problem not balance
keen inlet
Again, in a perfect world, each fight would have pros and cons for both ranged and melee
stark heart
come up with a way to make melee desirable
keen inlet
mechanics-based
cold spoke
ranged you lose dps when you have a mechanic on you ๐
stark heart
not to make ranged undesirable
vestal wren
and we saw several figths where you have no advantage to ever bring a melee over a ranged dps, while there are close to no fights that work the other way around
cold spoke
Gul'dan you brought as little ranged as you could
depends on the fight really
i think fights have to be designed in a way that
you need people in both melee and ranged
stark heart
exactly
supple hearth
Xhul'horac was a good example of a fight that included both ranged and melee.
cold spoke
like krosus
vestal wren
what stops ranged dps to be in melee?
stark heart
why you needed melee on Krosus tho?
cold spoke
you didnt need melee on krosus
vestal wren
and why do melee dps suddenly dont lose dps on mechanics while ranged do?
stark heart
well you kinda didn't want to put ranged too close to boss since they can be targeted by bomb
cold spoke
its not like you need them but you need to soak melee anyway ๐
stark heart
but I think it's solvable
severe ermine
is it normal for mantle/insignia to sim higher than mantle/bracers for me? can link sim if needed
vestal wren
i know a guild that finished hfc mythic with only ranged dps
supple hearth
@severe ermine everyone sims different
vestal wren
i never heared of one doing the same with melees
stark heart
and?
cold spoke
its because ranged can stand in melee and melees cant stand in range ๐
but you can't rly fix it
vestal wren
the point is you dont need melees
cold spoke
unless you play survival 
stark heart
I don't find paradigm "let's give melee more damage and turn them into tunnel monsters and force ranged to deal with mechanics" healthy
strange python
@severe ermine kind of bizarre
stark heart
it won't be funny for all
vestal wren
yet the majority will want ap back
cold spoke
its because ap sounds like a lot of deeps ๐
arctic venture
!relics
chrome tuskBOT
List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
gray_hounds relic sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=0
cold spoke
imagine the damage you'd be doing on argus with AP
stark heart
people want not AP but being top dps
overbuff Assa now and none would even mention that abomination of a talent
and that is another topic really
vestal wren
reason sub sees atm no play, bad balancing
viscid helm
cold spoke
๐
stark heart
classic fuu
vestal wren
well ap is not off topic ๐คท it emphasizes on tunelling the boss
stark heart
^
cold spoke
heavy movement fights usually suit melee
vestal wren
then suddenly coven appears
stark heart
encounters should create a part of the fight where you say "I want melee here"
say you would have Aluriel frost adds
that push you away
but you can damage them only in close proximity
ranged would be rather inefficient in that case
vestal wren
i liked nh design
cold spoke
vestal wren
i played sub
stark heart
still you just sit on one target pretty much
stark heart
i liked nh design
it was partly borring for melee
well we know what you like now
cold spoke
best raid when it comes to melee and ranged having their own tasks
vestal wren
problem with adds is usually that melee cant just swicth effortlessly to the adds, while ranged might be able to
the effective area in what melee can operate vs. ranged is just to small to make both even
jovial kite
midnight latch
๐
jovial kite
vernal adder
yes
jovial kite
thank naya โค
spare cloud
Naya best photoshop editor
manic vigil
Pleb avatar 
arctic venture
Shade of the Vault 940
Fasces of the Endless Legions 950
Cruor of the Avenger 960
2.099.318
Shade of the Vault 940
Fasces of the Endless Legions 950
Nathrezim Incisor 945
2.086.984
Kitzlig
2.086.452
Dirge of the Hunted 955
Fasces of the Endless Legions 950
Cruor of the Avenger 960
2.079.242
What u think guys?
arctic venture
I just think that will not be that good in game.
vernal adder
I can "Hey"
manic vigil
Now you made the bunny angery 
look at its face
vernal adder
Notter angry bunny ๐ฆ
vernal adder
ban him
gaunt moat
well 11k difference is really small anyway
if you don't feel like experimenting. then you don't have to.
vernal adder
Notter next nelbur
arctic venture
Notter, yes its just about ilevel.
stark heart
so you can pick whatever
vernal adder
ilvl >alll, Legion is all about ilvl, srs
lone junco
@jovial kite nice angery face.
arctic venture
Ramlu I dont think its that much.
manic vigil
vernal adder
jovial kite
@lone junco thanks
graceful flax
how many ilvl does a ring socket worth ? ๐
vernal adder
10
quartz depot
~10?
graceful flax
i got a 960 ring and a 955 with socket
quartz depot
955 one for sure
lone junco
graceful flax
alrighty~thanks a lot
marble hemlock
wait
vernal adder
I like it
marble hemlock
its not supposed to be a bug?
even ming the merciless didnt have eyebrows like that
strange python
those brows are stout gotdam
spare cloud
๐ค
spare cloud
Yeh
I could also take another alias
one that goes better with angery
smth thats easier to make
midnight latch
or that
spare cloud
let's see
keen inlet
what what happened to kanji toph
keen inlet
or chinese characters or w/e it was
midnight latch
CHINESE
spare cloud
midnight latch
dude
keen inlet
I don't know!
midnight latch
I am gonna go balistic in a sec
keen inlet
It was a language I don't read/speak lol
spare cloud
Can you distinguish russian from asian languages
keen inlet
Wait that was russian?
spare cloud
it was Hangul in any case
keen inlet
"hanzi" sorry
sharp viper
a true american doesn't recognize anything that isn't american (not english) language
lone junco
same
sharp viper
imagine i added a "KKona" to that sentence
keen inlet
I speak Spanish. But I'd be the first to tell you--anything about asian history or culture was entirely self-taught. My education didn't touch any of it.
I'll continue discussing this in off-topic if ppl are actually interested, and not just subtly trolling me (NAYA. 
)
jovial kite
strange python
๐
jovial kite
ionic cypress
Mic check, mic check
ionic cypress
Umm to just want to recomfirm this because I'm not sure what was actually true when I asked the first time... but I was asking about the Sleep canister mechanic on Imonar and in the RH guide it says "Use cloak if you get Sleeping canister, it will completely remove it".... i was told that you use cloak before it's even cause because WA's tells you somehow that it will be cast on you. If that is the case.... this says cloak will "completely remove" sleep canister.... so how is this true if it never gets on you in the first place?
ionic cypress
maybe that should we reworded tehn?
shrewd night
Why does it need to be reworded
Sleep canister is targeting you, you cloak it
Don deal
ionic cypress
nah
"WA's will tell you before it's cast on you that it will be cast"
so it's technically not removing anything
which is why i was probably confused about this for months
keen inlet
@shrewd night I got complaints from Tanner about your name, so I changed it
fwiw I still love you
shrewd night
kk don, love you rong time
rain pewter
strange python
dieslick you can cloak it at any point, just if you do it before you wonโt terrify your raid
strange python
i mean its not really "cancelling" the sleep canister cast per se, you still get targeted by it but with cloak active it wont do anything @ionic cypress
ionic cypress
yeah thats what i mean @strange python
but of course if you use it after... your raid will hate you unless youre out of range yes?
ionic cypress
yis
keen inlet
my raid calls it sleep fartbomb
We have a 5k bounty for killing our raid lead (warlock) and nobody else
strange python
if u get the dbm shit telling you that youd get sleep canister just insta cloak and youre gucci
it shouldnโt sleep your raid iirc
and u can stand still
ionic cypress
and no need for a dispel if used after and oor right?
strange python
no
lean hill
Or just run out 10 yards lol
strange python
if u cloak it no dispell needed, no one gets sleeped by it
but muh dps @lean hill
ionic cypress
jesus christ i hope this is true
lean hill
I've given up on good imo dps
strange python
it is, i can check my twitch vods if it was on stream once
lean hill
Bridges are hard apparently
ionic cypress
this needs to be spread more... cuz a lot of good rogues ive watched dont even try to use it and get oor
ionic cypress
nono i get that totally
strange python
most of them have to save it for bridge
ionic cypress
im just saying clearly not many people know that
yes i would save for the bridge on mythic for sure
shrewd night
ionic cypress
but im just asking on heroic
ive only seen the guide on the RH site... is there more than 1?
strange python
trying in heroic sounds ๐ด
ionic cypress
for sin
frozen pecan
wtf who isn't cloaking sleepcanister
gaunt moat
well
ionic cypress
a bleep ton of people
gaunt moat
we have 4 guidees in RH
shrewd night
I dont cloak it because Id rather use cloak on bridge ๐คท
frozen pecan
noob
gaunt moat
one for each spec
and another extra "boss tips" guides
but my guide also has a tip section aimed for only sin
ionic cypress
oh ok ive just been looking under sin
strange python
if u check it
I cloak bridge along with the other rogue and we can basically clear the entire bridge in one pass. ezpz
on the time stamp i get the first sleep canister
and its cloaked if u want to see how it works
@ionic cypress
strange python
trialed for an 11/11 guild who couldnโt rekill vari this week ๐ค shouldโve just stayed and progged agg
with old guild
ionic cypress
oh well ill just have to pray for no lag in that moment
strange python
i mean thats always nice on imonar that you have no insane lag spikes ๐
ionic cypress
its always nice in 1 raid night when i dont have any insane lag spikes T_T
astral sundial
@strange python I bet they had to mess recruit after killing argus cuz most didn't want to play untill BfA
ionic cypress
or more like lag periods of time where i have to drop raid for 30 min to fix my internet
lean hill
Gotta upgrade that dialup
lone junco
@zealous dew for arcway, do you pull both slime packs at once at the door? we have a warlock and he put out a few 35M+ packs last night.
Raging/necrotic/tyr
or do you keep those pulls seperate.
lean hill
What level key
lean hill
As long as you can handle it, pull as much as possible!
lone junco
I wont pull the banshee with the slimes.
lean hill
Well yea not her
lone junco
thats what im talking about. I dont want to do dumb shit.
vapid moth
You can always break them then leave the dungeon
lean hill
Both slimes are fine if you have the dps to smack them down
lone junco
weve done that in the past. I just rather use stun chain at the medium split. then stun again at the low split.
see what the warlock Plus a cloaked sub can bang out.
lone junco
ProtPal/ Rshm/ Rogue/Arcane/Affliction
or
Bear/Rshm/Ret/Rog/Arcane
best aoe group is
Protpal/Hpal/Ele/Arcane/Moonkin
lone junco
arcane is so squishy. due to being in melee. but we finished the Arcway key into a seat. so thats dead. might as well push the spare arcway as aggressively as possible.
zealous dew
i skip them
with rogue
go ahead, pull the bile to you, rp is done, vanish, go back shroud
go left or right
little fiber
So been going through the top logs and in multiple rogues openers they do mutilate -> garrote instead of garrote ->mutilate, any reason for that or just preference?
lone junco
there are some really old logs from when Deadly poison would apply Nightstalker buff. they opened with mut for a bug
but if you post the log, ill see if it is real. or conditional, or stupid.
strange python
poison knife opener LUL
lone junco
@little fiber and often, "top logs" can have absurd pb luck, or raid cheese. so its still probably not a good idea.
little fiber
like this one for an example https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TJPAgktYWCVjyXNG#fight=1&type=damage-done&view=timeline&source=7
or am I just reading it wrong
lone junco
little fiber
nvm I'm just an idiot, it's just the delay of the garrote dmg vs actually looking for the silence from garrote applying instead
jovial kite
astral sundial
@lone junco maybe he didn't get poison bomb on the rupture and wanted to bid for top log..
lone junco
there were a few people that would skip the garrote during shoulder for the bomb fish. Mut rupture mut env vendetta tbkb vanish env mut env mut env. garrote.
again. probably not best.
astral sundial
how much energy do you lose in that window?
lone junco
hell if i know. I dont count Energy.
vestal wren
well if you seperate rh and my sub guide we have technically 5
astral sundial
it is possible that with good enough gear and the right relc traits (like envenom one) it is actually better to skip garrote..for this dude it did little less then 4% dmg overall
surely few ticks don't count for much
lone junco
in cleave. M+ specifically yes
I dont garrote or rupture in shoulder.
Mut env mut env
or fok env fok env. fok rupture fok Vanish env fok env fok env
jagged oracle
isnt it better in high keys to garrote as much as possible ?
lone junco
absolutely not
astral sundial
garrote is only for energy
lone junco
on bosses yes
jagged oracle
yea i mean when youre doing high keys (22+) when the trash is living long enough
for the energy reg
lone junco
still no. when you open on a fat pack. you prioitize pbomb.
astral sundial
do you env with 3 cp?
jagged oracle
okay then
lone junco
basically on 1-4 tagets i just rupture them all, 5-8 i alternate rupture/envenom
astral sundial
I still like keeping t21 running via envenom even on small packs
lone junco
but when things are stacked together for cleave, you want to mut env mut env or fok env fok env
was a quote from seliathan. but i edited out stuff about PK and overcapping CPS in 9+
dont want to confuse anyone
lone junco
truth. thats why I play sub in cleave ๐ฎ
actually im kinda mixed on that. Sub gets me dead if im not careful. Sin is super easy.
astral sundial
@lone junco so you don't care for getting t21 going before spreading the rupture?
manic vigil
I still play sin mostly because it's more optimized and our pulls are still too small
manic vigil
My new keyboard app is killing me, seriously
lone junco
app?
astral sundial
why open with mut instead of fok?
manic vigil
Yeah I'm at work on my phone
lone junco
depends on the mob count
astral sundial
ok, what's the breakpoint? 3? 4?
astral sundial
if it's the same isn't it better to FoK on 3? to spread poisons faster
lone junco
if you carry env in, go ahead.
i dont care really.
the opener is about pbomb.
if you have 7/7pk it probably matters tho
astral sundial
please no, I just got 975 relic today with my second MA..
manic vigil
shrewd night
manic vigil
The quest for relics never ends
lone junco
our group cleave dumpsters mine anyway. I run exang in M+ and swap between shoulder/bracer for trash to bracer boot on bosses.
i cant do 35m
manic vigil
I'm shooting for 7malch 7bb fuck it
lone junco
good for you
manic vigil
Screw mantle and gimme dem critz
manic vigil
Yeah I just play my aff for m+ I guess
Still hoping for better gear to try bleed as well
I bet I'd love it
jovial kite
manic vigil
shrewd night
spare cloud
thats actually pretty cute.
strange python
lf hidden rogue spec
strange python
why he so angry
jovial kite
tfw
pull 2.47m on dogs
wipe at 3%
then next pull
1 poisonbomb proc
:333333333
250k less
atleast got 975 flamepaws
jovial kite
and btw last week 2.38m was 97 percentile
lone junco
avg must be pretty bad then.
like 50% at 1.9m
back to kicking rocks, cause our raiders wont do mythic
calm grail
When you're hotdogging them Mythic doggo are you trying to multi dot or just going apeshit on one?
spare cloud
and different pb proccs
calm grail
Or is it a big case of not my problem if your incorrect debuff hurts someone else
spare cloud
I multidot when I get the chance to
like shadowstep is ready and I have to swap
stuff like t hat
calm grail
Yeah.
I haven't been doing it before 30% because I don't think the extra damage is worth potentially hurting someone, but as we get further and further into fuck around territory
Might just Yolo it
spare cloud
well youre not really hurting anyone if you dont fuck up completely
and energy is nice
calm grail
I want a good dog parse though. And I'm not going to be able to compete if I do the fight sitting on one dog.
I think as long as you're not dragging the tank around here good from what I've gathere
calm grail
I only have like three orange Mythic parses
The rest are purple or blue
Dogs isnt one
RIP
calm grail
I'm super under progressed because I'm in a potato Guild. I play a little too conservatively probably on the new progress bosses.
jovial kite
because our bridges are shit
open reef
Hello guys, any good tips for Aggramar mythic?
spare cloud
Idk how to get a legendary parse on aggramar
because we play with a rogue group and we double soak every technique except 1
where cloaks arent ready
calm grail
Trick to getting a good Imonar parse is kicking as soon as you arrive
Fuck everyone else.
calm grail
Yeah but that's not your problem, they needed to move faster
strange python
and they call me tard ๐
spare cloud
Do you double soak?
calm grail
For some reason my guild has the tank do half the bridge and we stack and use CDs then teleport across halfway and finish the rest
This is for the trip wire phases
jovial kite
@spare cloud ofc
spare cloud
because while running away that kind of parse is insane for me
wtf
How do you get your timings when running away all the time
spare cloud
Oh well
lone junco
yeah, its nice
jovial kite
plus
you dont need to run away all the time
cloak 0.5 sec before aoe
you can soak range rend
lone junco
you get your 2nd exang during the aoe with cloak
spare cloud
I'd need to know the different kind of techniques for that 
calm grail
So once these artifact weapons get muted, item level should be king right? I can save any potato relics that roll higher than my current ones?
strange python
I guess so, but weapon dmg doesnt do much for us anyway
calm grail
Yeah that's true. I'm kind of glad that other people who benefited from weapon damage are getting neutered
๐
strange python
ilvl isnt king actually ? :p
calm grail
So we're not the only melee class who doesn't give a fuck about their weapons
brisk forge
Btw is 3 vendetta relics a dps loss with shoulders/wrists? Maybe silly question but better to ask then Fuck up ๐
W8 should sim this before i asked xD
noble ingot
question what's the opener like with boots and wrist
plain thistle
@brisk forge no, 2 is a dps loss, 1 or 3 is not ๐
but you can always sim relics
brisk forge
Yea i knew 2 is a loss but was confused about 3 but i am doing relics sims atm, so weยดll have to see ๐
placid egret
3 ma is the biggest iirc
supple hearth
@noble ingot middle option on the guide
supple hearth
^ you don't have to do anything. I would sim the different talents and see whats best
the thing i do tbh is go look at top parsing rogues who use similar set ups to me - or the set up im aiming for - and analyze their logs and understand why they are doing what they are doing. I'd go look at a rogue using boots/wrists and see the talents they use on certain fights
but what those rogues are doing is just simming everything to min-max
crimson knoll
If youโre using boots/wrists, I would still go for ns on st for that empowered rupture
lone junco
meh. its very close.
the problem i have with subterfuge, without 2p20, Ill refresh garrote like 5 sec before vanish is ready, and get fucked on my subterfuge
mostly cause Im bad.
plain thistle
I do run with boots+bracer but I use subterfuge for every fight, even for single its simming better for me
but they are close
lone junco
^ not bad
plain thistle
oh yeah, I play with T20 2P and subterfuge
indigo epoch
So, still early, but show of hands how many are thinking about ditching sin for BfA? Seems like it's going to be kind of boring with kingsbane gone.
Numbers aside of course.
supple hearth
too early to make a decision. I won't know what i'm leveling as until we get there. won't know what im raiding/m+ as until we get there
keen inlet
I think sin will be a fallback, if sub and outlaw changes don't work out numerically
as sin is changing the least
plain thistle
oh no, a purple name 
keen inlet
John Wae
plain thistle
๐
lost horizon
Just wondering, how high are your t20 pieces? @plain thistle
plain thistle
shoulder 930 with socket and gloves 955
lost horizon
That's solid, I've got 945 gloves but crap 920 shoulders
Had a lot of fun 4+2 on coven though
3sec CD garrote โค maybe I should try it on ST anyway for kicks
plain thistle
yeah, I got the shoulder literally on our last avatar kill , and I asked to get it because I knew I would use it for a while
I wasnt expecting to use it for the whole tier tho
ahahha
and I have really good shoulder and gloves off pieces to use, but its a dps loss =x
gaunt moat
rich man problems
lost horizon
T20 feels so good though
lost horizon
3sec and like, what 20energy on garrote?
plain thistle
energy and CD, the CD is super good too
lone junco
if it were a wash. always 2p4p. cause damn it is qol
strange python
The don is purple now? Wow
Always knew he was destined for greater things
As soon as I saw his paint creations
That man can draw a mean pirate
keen inlet
they say that real life inspires art
lone junco
๐คบ
zealous dew
that angry exs
final star
zealous dew
๐
sharp viper
@jovial kite link that coven log or PM pls, i am curious
solar willow
is 184mastery 36crit too much/little?
kindred forge
There is no such a thing as to much mastery, except if you play bleed
sharp viper
960 t20 gloves 940 t20 shoulders hot damn
plain thistle
damn that fury warrior log ๐
strange python
@solar willow 
But if you are using shoulders chances are 36% might be a little high.
solar willow
@strange python aight sir
sharp viper
but crit makes playing sin way more pleasant
solar willow
i just killed aggra mythic and got head piece and from 186 31 it went to 184 36 and i thought it was too much crit
thin plinth
asd
fervent beacon
No such thing as too much crit
sharp viper
^
fervent beacon
more crit, more seal fate proc, more env output.
lone junco
101 is too much. but until then,
fervent beacon
strange python
With leggo shoulders... crit is undervalued at some point no?
lone junco
pretty sure poisons will cap out first at like 62% crit range
strange python
why even wear shoulders if u gonna crit so much anyway.
lone junco
with shoulders crit weight is low if you are in the 25% range. if you can get to like 35 it will slide back up
sharp viper
crit stat is basically useless during the mantle of the master assassin window, outside of it is very useful tho
sharp viper
one of the reasons why i enjoy playing bracers boots way more
strange python
I would if I didn't get fcking 970 boots from eonar
lean hill
The vanish is paired with CDs, guaranteed crits mean more damage. Play sub, dont crit on any dfas and you'll want to kys
drifting cloud
for all we know those could be 2 cp envenoms ๐คก
strange python
so did you just have infinite energy there lol?
sharp viper
more crit=more energy
drifting cloud
youd probably need way over 40% crit for vers to catchup
sharp viper
@jovial kite sick log, replay was fun to watch
lone junco
with any EP build, crit will be high until like 65% i would guess. whenever poison or mut hits 100
lone junco
@drifting cloud that string of 6 env were all crit. 2 were 3cp. but if you simmed 3cp env with high enough crit, youll see that it is almost a wash. that 4th was 3cp env was still in tb.
.
but go on.
drifting cloud
I was just joking relax ๐
drifting cloud
how does vendetta timings work for intermission with your guild?
you just slap it on the add people arent hitting or
drifting cloud
no its because all high lock logs on that fight are add padd
thats why all stars is disabled
top100 is 99 locks and 1 sp ๐
make that top200 198 locks and 2 sps
sharp viper
we had a frostmage on slow duty on our first aggra kill, obviously really high parse for him
same reason i was forced to go assa instead of sub as initially planned, no way i could ever hit the adds for shurikenstorm
lone junco
Trusted for sure.
sharp viper
believe in alacrity and alacrity believes in you
spare cloud
@jovial kite how does your other rogue feel
sharp viper
jovial kite
@spare cloud hes
sharp viper
you had over 52m more poisonbomb dmg on aggramar
sharp viper
you were able to get in 2 vendettas before the intermission into p2?
strange python
what are the best relics to have ? trying to found some information but nolucky
sharp viper
!relics
chrome tuskBOT
List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
gray_hounds relic sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=0
strange python
wow nice ty guys
jovial kite
@sharp viper yes
sharp viper
damn, exsanguinate and more crit also gave you 50% more energy than mediate
no wonder you can fit in another vendetta with 3x mass relics and boots
lone junco
yep. high crit poisons on 4p21
sharp viper
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/2GVvn4aAqHtrLhTp/2GVvn4aAqHtrLhTp#fight=42,42&source=8,11&type=resources&spell=103 6888 raw energy vs 4390 raw energy
spare cloud
@jovial kite your gear is disgusting.
sharp viper
are you even ever playing poison again?
jovial kite
occasionally