why is there no horde guild with the same quality roster group therapy has? :<
#assassination
marble hemlock
shrewd oriole
Right
fast nacelle
where they nearly disbanded
drifting cloud
affenjungs gruul video PogChamp
spare cloud
Wasnt group therapy the Set sail for fail alt guild?
shrewd oriole
Apply to familiar with drama so you can raid with saber 😉
frozen pecan
they lost plenty of players after tbc
shrewd night
What do you mean Tom, I changed my thing on Wowp and got offered a 1700 jump in guildranking
marble hemlock
i mean all the players that left noir and went to affenjungs and came back at some point later were just utter shit :x
frozen pecan
who tf is noir lul
frozen pecan
I played there in tbc
strange python
@shrewd oriole LUL "looking for rogue: medium " 🤔
marble hemlock
was a kel'thuzad boy until i transfered at the beginning of legion
shrewd night
@strange python So? You shouldnt give a fuck about recruitment section on wowp. everyone recruits exceptional players if they show promise, regardless of needs.
frozen pecan
well honestly I can't remember the races in tbc I only know that affenjungs where concidered the top german guild
marble hemlock
and s3/s4 i xferred to stormscale for pvp
shrewd night
Beat the competition and the spot is yours
fast nacelle
i played pvp with some of the affenjungs guys
the blutdurst vs glutsturm flames in forum were great
shrewd oriole
Yeah
frozen pecan
in tbc
shrewd oriole
Exactly
Good players can reroll
Good Guilds recrut good players not good classes
marble hemlock
blutdurst did have handsdown the best pvp players of the german realmpools tho :x
fast nacelle
nah
marble hemlock
at least in the categories that mattered
fast nacelle
most good players but not the best
marble hemlock
3s/5s
strange python
@shrewd oriole they want to know my rl name and where im from as one of the first points monkaS
fast nacelle
i played on both glutsturm and blutdurst
glutsturm had some sick dudes too
shrewd oriole
frozen pecan
blutdurst was crazy
strange python
im a 14y old girl looking for hot overwatch pros
spare cloud
@strange python youre supposed to give some personal introduction in almost every guild app
frozen pecan
aegwynn had sick players back then
frozen pecan
ye
marble hemlock
that was not tbc though
fast nacelle
some were decent
marble hemlock
that was later
fast nacelle
most were average
shrewd oriole
fast nacelle
pirats was wotlk tho
shrewd night
Musclebrah?
frozen pecan
alot of pvp guilds transed from frostwolf to aegwynn
shrewd night
I think
warm parcel
marble hemlock
top pvp guilds in tbc were pekah/buccaneers on eredar, sedativa on kelthuzad and atrox
shrewd oriole
@shrewd night really?
frozen pecan
atrox seliathan thank you
shrewd oriole
I am genuinely confused who tanner is
shrewd night
@shrewd oriole I dunno, hopefully it is. because the other options are shitlords.
shrewd oriole
marble hemlock
people always forget about my kelthuzad pvp guild even though we dominated 3s and 5s :<
shrewd oriole
@warm parcel mod btw
frozen pecan
@gusty kestrel so you played on fw aswell?
gaunt moat
@shrewd oriole i guess warning you doesn't help
shrewd oriole
What
shrewd night
What did he do now?
frozen pecan
ah ok
shrewd oriole
What am I doing now lmao
frozen pecan
atrox used to be on fw in tbc until they transed to aegwynn
gaunt moat
!tempmute @shrewd oriole 2d harassment
chrome tuskBOT
Tom#6911 (87542091978141696) is muted for 2 days because of 'harassment', boss.
gilded lark
"who is tanner" 
shrewd night
For what!?
frozen pecan
rip
spare cloud
AHAHAHAH
gilded lark
?????????
frozen pecan
LOL
marble hemlock
they werent atrox until wrath though
jagged oracle
rekted
marble hemlock
were called feelin cute during tbc
strange python
rip Tom 10.04-12.04
marble hemlock
rerolling dk during wotlk was the worst thing pvp wise, it just didnt feel right
frozen pecan
harp rogue was stupid lul
frozen pecan
it was mad funny
fast nacelle
1.2k hemos
marble hemlock
what was s11? cata start?
fast nacelle
with glaives
marble hemlock
think i dabbled a bit
was that still beastcleave meta?
cause i know it was during s9/10
frozen pecan
I used maces because mace stun lul
marble hemlock
legendary daggers were shit for pvp anyway, think it was oh glaive with shivspam during s11?
yeah probably
never really cared much for arenas since i stopped playing after the second TR in wrath
glad to see my old mage-mate won blizzcon tho 😄
❤
gilded lark
i still wanna know why tom was muted
marble hemlock
yeah, hes a great guy
except for the dumping me from the team part back in tbc, but i forgive him :x
vivid bone
Don't poke the bear
shrewd night
@gilded lark Eggshells btw
marble hemlock
yeah, won blizzcon last year
fast nacelle
lol played on aegwyn back then with him
fun duels in front of iron forge
he s super cool
marble hemlock
sanchez wasnt that great though
frozen pecan
who remembers glurak from fw 😂
frozen pecan
lol
marble hemlock
they were all shit tbh :x
fast nacelle
texi draeni disc
i shit on kajn so often in 2s
daisy was sick mage tho
he carried them hard
marble hemlock
cant believe he won blizzcon after we didnt win shit back in 2008
but he stuck it out
and got it in the end
really happy for him
marble hemlock
end of wrath/start of cata as far as im aware
frozen pecan
this guy
frozen pecan
like everyone knew who fuckin glurak was
fast nacelle
do you know easy
frozen pecan
no don't think so
fast nacelle
or idk how he was called
marble hemlock
i do miss tbc pvp though
frozen pecan
tbc was the best pvp time I had in this game
marble hemlock
most comps were playable to ~2.3k
strange python
slsl lock was aids in tbc
frozen pecan
not the most successful but the most fun for sure
marble hemlock
it was mostly about counter-comping anyway
fast nacelle
idk i did s5 glad on hunter (first time hunter but sv with tnt better stunlock than rogues)
rogue glad s5-7 and then i quit
marble hemlock
well, wl got destroyed by enhancer
fast nacelle
cause caster cleaves and shit
marble hemlock
which is why that enhance/wl/druid team managed to snag #1 on blutdurst
fast nacelle
damn there was one enhancer team in bc
cant rmb the comb
but so fucking annoying
~2,3ish
marble hemlock
enhance/wl/druid
fast nacelle
ah yes
marble hemlock
got sponsored by alternate
marble hemlock
but we crushed them in regionals 😮
fast nacelle
it was so annoying
marble hemlock
yeah. enhance just took wl apart and had range rupt for feldom
fast nacelle
yeah.
we also didnt play shaman rogue wl
but drood rogue wl
which didnt help much
fun old times
marble hemlock
i tried out most comps with rogue, and even when i wasnt running 4/4 tier/pvp set it still felt like every comp was playable to a high degree if the people playing the chaaracters were amazing players
marble hemlock
didnt matter if it was some turtle-heal bullshit, or a 3dps comp
marble hemlock
warrior/rogue was incredible in 2s cause it just destroyed druids
fast nacelle
i playes spriest wl and spriest rogue 2's mostly
was super fun
but to climb with druid
marble hemlock
and you could outplay most teams
fast nacelle
on wl
marble hemlock
yeah...
marble hemlock
well most teams has mages, and wl just hardcountered mage in 2s
fast nacelle
and playes vs shit like druid warr or mage rogue
frozen pecan
what was your rogues name tyra?
marble hemlock
still remember playing a match with daisy against badeand/leasha and they just dismissed the felhunter at the start and played without pet. we still lost.
frozen pecan
tbc
frozen pecan
jayson undead rogue?
fast nacelle
in tbc yes
frozen pecan
male
fast nacelle
i was a decent rogue so this could be
frozen pecan
do you remember a rogue called myknox? :>
fast nacelle
im bad at remembering ppl
frozen pecan
doesn't matter just asking ^^
echo estuary
woundman, neilyo, acrono, reckful, kalimist
drifting cloud
oil up boys
echo estuary
woundman was really good in bc
fast nacelle
neilyo was just for montages iirc
marble hemlock
yeah
fast nacelle
woundman was decent but not sick
reckful was a sick fuck
kalimist was great too iirc
frozen pecan
reckful was crazy
marble hemlock
acrono was good, reckful was good, krystal/kalimist was really good
fast nacelle
but idk how good u need to be if you have hydra
marble hemlock
i was great too lul
echo estuary
yeah kalimist best rog wotlk no doubt
strange python
^
fast nacelle
yeah well
gilded lark
channel one boys
fast nacelle
kalimist did sick plays but if you have these mates
gilded lark
leggo
fast nacelle
rmp was never about the rogue tbh
marble hemlock
and paperkats rogue was actually pretty legit too when he didnt play warrior
strange python
LUL
echo estuary
reckful was just more a defensive oriented player, and wotlk was very fast paced and aggro meta
marble hemlock
wotlk was shit
modest oyster
What is work 
fast nacelle
wotlk included the worst experience for me in pvp
marble hemlock
or ray
echo estuary
i'd take the s5 aids anyday over leg pvp
fast nacelle
ezpz
marble hemlock
i mean thats because shadowfrost dk in s5 was broken as fuck
same as frost-dk in s6
fast nacelle
yeah
marble hemlock
cause blizzard couldnt balance relics for shit
frozen pecan
I remember when the fuckin ghoul they could turn into after dying killed both me and my mate in 2s lol
marble hemlock
yeah
echo estuary
2v2 was fine too, mage rogue with engi trinket
fast nacelle
didnt have good mage for 2's
echo estuary
its just that DK were ultra dumb
marble hemlock
actually won 1v3 on TR once against smash and his RMP buddies with just my allied ghoul-res and myself
fast nacelle
literly nothing u can do
marble hemlock
cause that thing legit two-shot people
fast nacelle
chains of ice on you while he tunnels disc
frozen pecan
dk with that fear glyph for death and decay 😅
marble hemlock
there no more vods of games i played in back then, feelsoldman
and daisy got all the credit anyway
dude plays pom/pyro, i kill hafu in 3seconds, she dies before the pompyro even hits "daisy is amazing" 😦
fast nacelle
😂 hafu 😂
frozen pecan
me to honestly
marble hemlock
so i can be a star aagain
echo estuary
not nostalgia. Just a direct, calculated comparison to the shit game we have now
echo estuary
it was much better trust me
gilded lark
come keep our fallen brother company
frozen pecan
but will it be as fun as it was back then? dunno
marble hemlock
depends
i just liked the chess-like approach to pvp
when you could get chain-cced for 30+seconds
echo estuary
skillcap alone was skyhigh, now everything is scripted, just like pve
fast nacelle
i rly hope vanilla will rock
marble hemlock
and when you pulled off these chains it just felt great and rewarding
fast nacelle
not for vanilla sake but to get tbc back for pvp
pve wise we are rly gucci but pvp wise i rly feel it was better
marble hemlock
arena became way too fast-paced for my tasted mid-wotlk
strange python
being able actually vanish so much shit felt good until wotlk
fast nacelle
swirly ball ❤
frozen pecan
they don't plan for any other expansion servers
marble hemlock
when matches didnt last longer than 1m10s, because hungering cold had 1min cd and you didnt have trinket for the second one....
i mean you have swirly ball in legion?
echo estuary
it was fast paced, but compare it to now, you can alt tab mid game and you know nothing happens
fast nacelle
thats like you say "get your OL hidden artefact and u ll have your thunder fury"
fast nacelle
😮
dire spoke
I mean, you can have swirly ball but it's useless
marble hemlock
its not useless
2nd boss vault, the debuff that gives +10sec CD on an abilit you use
can trigger it with detection
and remove debuff
but then your swirly ball is on cd for 10sec 😦
dire spoke
marble hemlock
assa can just use mutilate since it doesnt incur the 10sec cd for some reason, but for combat/sub you kinda need detection to not lock one of your important spells there or waste resources on vial :p
vivid bone
I still don't get why they gave in and promised vanilla.
frozen pecan
do you think they will put out a tbc server
marble hemlock
because its the easiest way to control their IP
fast nacelle
i hope they ll do just progression
marble hemlock
private servers will stop popping up if blizzard has their own, its fairly low maintenance and you dont have to spend as many resources anymore to C&D private servers
dire spoke
You have 2y for all the content then a Reset happens and all is deleted 
fast nacelle
and what happends to vanilla only players?
etc
maybe priv server still will be relevant
frozen pecan
I mean I would love a tbc server but I highly doubt they will make one even if vanilla is a success
vivid bone
I've played vanilla for a long time, and to think it's coming back, I'm not so sure. Things evolve over time. Why go back to the crap from back then. There was a lot wrong with vanilla that probably won't be fixed, since it's not vanilla then.
marble hemlock
dont think blizz will bother with progression servers
agile anvil
So I noticed KB and toxic blade don't perfectly line up should I hold toxic blade for it?
frozen pecan
or if they are going to do it it will be in 10 years from now lol
zealous dew
73 btw
marble hemlock
theyll just dump out classic at 1.12
fast nacelle
that would be bad
lucid dock
Hey guys, trying to get the hang of my assa rogue. I’m sitting at 940ish without any tier, but have the legendary shoulders and boots. I’ve sort of got the single target rotation down, but I’m struggling to compete in M+ - is it really just fishing for PB procs?
fast nacelle
idk.. atually i think i wont enjoy vanilla much
i d just play it on stream lol
but not rly enjoying the stupid slow lvling
vivid bone
I enjoyed vanilla when it was current. Won't enjoy it now probably either.
sharp viper
less than 2 hours and you guys spam this much
fast nacelle
and some bad outdated shit
marble hemlock
depends on what m+ you aim for. 15-20, you can just do whatever
frozen pecan
They don't really know what version to use yet
marble hemlock
20+ you kind of need to gear for it with relics etc.
shrewd night
@sharp viper Cant give you TLDR without getting banned so better read through it all
marble hemlock
so yeah, just spam fok, apply a few ruptures, and youre good
supple hearth
well they said they are at 940 so probably doing 15s
fast nacelle
i like vanilla.
however i hope they add some useful things like titan forge, netherlight cruicible and more legendarys 🤓
agile anvil
If I stack vendetta relics I assume boots will over take shoulders?
gilded lark
"Who is tanner?" 
lucid dock
That’s what I’ve been doing, damage just seems really low so I wondered if there was anything I was missing
dire spoke
@lucid dock yes, rupture one add and FoK finish as much as possible. If the adds live longer or are tanky you may rupture 2-3
shrewd night
@gilded lark 
sharp viper
@shrewd night i guess the tldr is too time consuming anyways
lucid dock
Ok, thanks a lot 😃
vivid bone
What did you like about vanilla then Tyrarolls
marble hemlock
what do you mean with "damage seems really low"
gilded lark
the basic recap is someone said the game is easy
shrewd night
@sharp viper Two jpg onliners. But yaknow, I kinda like it here, so Im not even going to try. ENjoy the next 45 minutes tho
gilded lark
and they had all gray parses for mythic
supple hearth
@lucid dock i wouldnt worry about being "competitive" at 940. I do 15s with 920+ alts and I dont worry about competing against people who are mythically geared tbh. Just do the best you can do at your level wouldnt really worry about other people as long as youre getting close to your own simmed dps you'll be fine
gilded lark
and chat reacted
lucid dock
I mean I’m playing with guildies 30 ilvls higher than me and getting jealous that I’m bottom the whole time so needed some cheats
marble hemlock
theres no such thing
fast nacelle
it was a joke @vivid bone :P
idk what i rly liked
i think it was just huge when it came out. you were overwhelmed by the game
i think not much i would like about vanilla now after playing wow for so long
mostly prob the community/oldschool feeling
sharp viper
damn that sounds entertaining
marble hemlock
especially not as assa
sharp viper
GAME IS EZ AF BRUH
fast nacelle
like running to dungeons etc
marble hemlock
we dont have any on-demand burst aoe, which is what counts the most in ~15 keys
sharp viper
you may quote me on that
shrewd night
GAME IS EZ AF BRUH
gilded lark
won't use weakauras because it makes an easy game too easy
shrewd night
Gotchu fam
gilded lark
lucid dock
So what do we do on higher keys in aoe pulls? Single target focus priority?
fast nacelle
imagine how fun it would be if poisonbomb would be a bag of poison which can be used on demand
frozen pecan
@fast nacelle exactly, especially if it was your first mmo. everything was overwhelming and awesome
sharp viper
poisonbomb change to active to buff yourself so the next finishing move also drops a poison vial, 25s recharge, 2 charges, EZ solution for an EZ game
marble hemlock
get t21 4pc, keep just enough ruptures up to sustain energy, keep envenom buff up 100% of the time, and then 
lucid dock
Ok mate ta
shrewd night
@gilded lark orbyboi
fast nacelle
just let poisonbomb fill it at max 2 stacks with card of deck rng logic and make it on use but nerf the dmg
voiila
vivid bone
@fast nacelle Exactly 😉 We'll see about classic I guess.
sharp viper
3pk 3malch with master of shadows as t2 is probably the ideal trait setup for m+ only
lucid dock
Yeah my 3 relics have malch but all pretty low ilvl
sharp viper
wouldnt it have been great if we had several sets of relics so we can do stuff like that, like the old dual talent spec
lucid dock
*ilvl
marble hemlock
thats the way to get consistent aoe damage anyway, you can fish for poisonbombs but it will not be as good as doing consistent aoe instead and let others who actually excel at burst-aoe do their job, while you do yours
ilvl doesnt really matter for m+
fast nacelle
i mean assa wouldnt even need poisonbomb adjustments
it would already help if vendetta is selfbuff and not fucking debuff on target
lucid dock
That’s kind of what I meant, what is our job when our aoe is a bit low?
sharp viper
or that would be great as well,make vendetta less useless in aoe
i just use it for a high hp target and to get more energy if i need it
marble hemlock
basically when you see subrogues or mages or hunters do insane burst-aoe, you will see their damage drop off significantly once the mobs dont die after that burst
fast nacelle
also assa rampup isnt high if you play mantle
marble hemlock
while your damage just gets better
fast nacelle
*slow
shrewd night
Mantle tho 
marble hemlock
and they are usually limtied by cooldowns which arent up for every back, which isnt something you have to be concerned about either
sharp viper
mantle + fok on 5 targets is pretty great
agile anvil
What's wrong with mantle?
marble hemlock
so while they do 10mil in one pull and 3mil in the next one
you just do 5mil on both
sharp viper
almost feels like playing sub shuriken storm
zealous dew
in the meanwhile pug tonk pulls 2 mobs at a time, scared to die
marble hemlock
with some pretty good priority target damage
fast nacelle
idk assa is weird
sharp viper
that depends entirely on the size of the pulls, not all pulls have the same amount of npcs in it
lucid dock
Ok mate thanks a lot that makes it a bit clearer
marble hemlock
assa>sub once you hit 24+, unless you can pull so sub can abuse shuriken storm constantly
fast nacelle
without pb i do 3-4m dps on 5 targets -7 targets
but also on 2 targets
marble hemlock
which isnt always doable due to affixes/dungeons
lucid dock
Guess I just need to keep at it and get me some tier then
marble hemlock
and contrary to popular belief, assa is better in fortified weeks than tyrannical
sharp viper
if affixes force you to go with small pulls i would prefer assa over sub any day
fast nacelle
idk it doesnt rly matter for assa
it matters more for sub
the affixes
assa performs fairly well
marble hemlock
yeah thats really the crux
sub just benefits from tyra weeks
assa doesnt really give a fuck
drifting cloud
if youre lucky enough with pb you can be, just believe in yourself
marble hemlock
assa doesnt really have any dungeons where it sucks really badly either
drifting cloud
sharp viper
just reroll warlock or monk, best rogue specs anyways
marble hemlock
cos is probably the worst
fast nacelle
lower kara
marble hemlock
lower is totally fine as assa
fast nacelle
i only played sub on lower kara 25
rest i chill assa
idk
assa feels wasted on lower
with the pulls you do
also bosses favor sub aswell
sharp viper
how are the bosses in lower more favorable for sub?
marble hemlock
i mean sub can dfa maiden, but thats about it
with boots you have vendetta for every attu-man phase
sharp viper
dfa what exactly? the mass repentance?
fast nacelle
you do good dmg on moroes with sstorm
u do good dmg on opera
u can sstorm attuumen and have a nice burst
you can dfa maiden
idk
marble hemlock
moroes is 2adds max, so shuriken storm sucks
fast nacelle
- you do 20-30m on 3-4 pulls
sharp viper
maybe you can go ham on moroes if it is fortified
marble hemlock
opera depends on the event obviously
dark crag
pulls depend on affixes too
fast nacelle
sstorm doesnt suck on 3 targets
marble hemlock
westfall story is better for sub, witches/kitchen-event is better for assa imo
fast nacelle
idk
marble hemlock
it sucks when you only get 1-2stacks per sstorm though
that not what makes sub good
sharp viper
i would love to see a +24 or higher lower karazhan in the mdi
drifting cloud
pretty easy for the gear they got
marble hemlock
sub is really only good once you can abuse shurikenstorm by getting either 5stacks with one use, or 3stacks so you just have to double-storm/evis
fast nacelle
no real reason to play assa
marble hemlock
sub is ahead on padding on patreons after opera
and assa is pretty damn good for the rest
drifting cloud
no reason to play rogue 👍
zealous dew
no reason to play
drifting cloud
reason
strange python
no reason to play rogue when u can just play boomkin LUL
glass compass
Or ww
zealous dew
screw melee, play ranged
strange python
^
marble hemlock
you also have one big pull after another, while sub wants big pulls spaced out so vanish/glaives can get ready again
and a priority-pull in between
marble hemlock
if theres one dungeon id suggest playing sub, its not lower, its eoa
glass compass
Oh we talking sub vs sin m+?
fast nacelle
you dont go big pull after big pull
marble hemlock
sub destroys in eoa
strange python
i hate eoa last boss as sub
fast nacelle
you have big pulls and omega pulls
glass compass
But bracers last boss on tyrannical
strange python
yeah tyra week eoa last boss
glass compass
So sexy
strange python
bracers = creaming pants
marble hemlock
where you do bigpull, crabs+hydra, bigpull, crabs+hydra, crabs+boss etc.
anyway
the whole discussion is moot, since it largely depends on the composition
marble hemlock
i dont feel the need to pad dps on patreons with a boomy+firemage in the party when i can just aswell outperform sub on the important fights that arent taken care off by those two
glass compass
Not that good but close
sullen root
On EoA Tyr, I often go Sin. My tank pulls especially for me and my warlock buddy, so crab+hydra packs really keep Sin competitive enough on AOE and ofc the ST is glorious for Sin in EoA.
marble hemlock
replace sin with sub
and thats a true statement
cause sub benefits way more from those pulls
sullen root
It does, but I still DFA into death on the last boss
marble hemlock
sin doesnt gain as much priority target damage by having small adds to fok/rupture
shadowstep tank or dont stand inside the meleehitbox of the boss
vestal wren
you wont if you position yourself proper 😉
marble hemlock
then you dont dfa into the boss
vestal wren
dfa is a complex spell
sullen root
That is also true, but having a chunky mob to fish for PBs keeps sin fine for those pulls. Ah I didn't know that on the last boss.
fast nacelle
dfa on endboss is fine
glass compass
Honestly tho I switch between all three specs for m+
glass compass
Depends on how I'm feeling
marble hemlock
its just a practice thingy for those bosses that have fairly large hitboxes that you can actually stand inside
fast nacelle
still no idea why it sucks so hard sometimes
marble hemlock
like helya/wrath
drake is another issue
because his hitbox is technically in the air
not in the ground
glass compass
Sub is really fire in vault
fast nacelle
drake rly triggers me
marble hemlock
which is why you cant shadowstep the drake
fast nacelle
so often you dfa inside him and lose 1 gcd
sullen root
I only recently made an effort to play Sub well, as I wasn't a rogue prior to Antorus, so Sin has been life. Don't know the ins and outs of M+ for SUb yet, aside from just rotationally and my tanks pulls.
marble hemlock
cause theres no path becuase its in the air 🤔
dark crag
let the aoe specs do the aoe and just stand there and spam fok, why working hard when you can chill
fast nacelle
you do same dmg on 3 targets and 30 targets
marble hemlock
wat
sullen root
Also, I was wondering, I saw some relatively high M+ rogues (top15 or so rogues) that go sin for all dungeons (a void elf if i recall especially), and they run KB helm alot, I assume thats between vanish CDs?
marble hemlock
thats entirely not true
dark crag
or be one lucky guy and proc pb every trash pull
sullen root
I remember the FoK week. That was a good week.
marble hemlock
you dont lose that much
dark crag
i have the feeling that nightborne proc more pb
sullen root
or was it two weeks? i dunno, i just remember enjoying 3 PK relics
marble hemlock
lose like 60k dps from not having triple MA, gain 25k by doing fok at 3+cp
so its not that huge
marble hemlock
not like those 35-40k dps make ass amazing at singletarget in raid and without it youre screwed
were still middle of the pack either way
so id rather enjoy m+ ^^
glass compass
M+ is fun tho. Grinding upper for that 985 socket avoidance EoC tho is aids
marble hemlock
also @sullen root one of those dudes with the KB helm might be me, and thats just because i got good bracers/shoulders and for raid singletarget helm+boots actually sims highest for me
in the m+ itself you almost exclusively run shoulders+bracers, or a slight variation for specific bosses that make boots > bracer or boots > mantle
sullen root
Yeah, I thought the latter. KB helm piqued my curiousity cause I remember finding it powerful before I attained BiS when I first rolled rogue.
marble hemlock
can go boots+bracers if youre about to pull a boss and your vanish wont be up during your first vendetta
kb helm basically makes your rotation feel really smooth since you can attain high uptimes on envenom/sot/virulent poisons
glass compass
Kb helm with vigor is sooo much energy
marble hemlock
for m+ you kinda want mantle to have a consistent opener on trash/bosses and the opener burst that comes with it is a fairly substantial chunk of boss-hp already
you dont have any reliable burst without mantle, and m+ is all about consistency
glass compass
Definitely when you get that pb off rupture and ur vanish envenom
marble hemlock
dream opener is starting with 5cp, NS bota rupture opener with a bombproc, and another one on the NS envenom after vanish
sullen root
Are you competing at MDI with Miracle Seliathan?
marble hemlock
8mil+ ❤
glass compass
Then u pretend that ur opener was all skill
marble hemlock
no, miracle cant compete cause of his countries gambling laws, and we gave up cause we werent good e nough, so were not in top8
sharp viper
who needs consistency if you have faith and rng? 🙏
sullen root
I see, I figured that might be why Miracle didn't continue with Method EU's team.
marble hemlock
it was
we also lost our druidhealer
and had to xfer alliance to even find a team
sullen root
Out of curiousity, what does Miracle make of your preference for Sin in many dungeons? Since he's almost exclusively sub right?
marble hemlock
cause gambling laws ruin MDI 😦
miracle loves me, no clue if that has anything to do with me playing assa tho
@full nimbus
show yourself
glass compass
Nah faith and rng are just buzzwords, everyone knows more skill = more pbs
vestal wren
🤔
marble hemlock
if the tank can pull so sub can use shuriken storm to the max, sub is better. since miracle is tanking in our grp, and he cant be bothered to do that but yells at other tanks if they dont, im not sure where exactly he stands
honest pelican
anyone know if youy have to do multiple first time vault runs, before u can get that polymorphic key?
and does it disappear each time u open the door
sullen root
LMAO, I like the summary Seliathan.
marble hemlock
more swirlyballs = more rng
its really just that though
look at the original eu method comp
wl/mm/sub
they all greatly benefit from constantly having small adds with high priority bosses/trash
so sub is amazing there
still sucks compared to mm/wl, but its not terrible
monk would still be better though...
glass compass
When did monks get so God tier? Weren't they dumpster tier most of the expac?
marble hemlock
because their t21 is amazing and noone was playing it so noone noticed when monk was fine during tos already
and only got better with antorus
sullen root
Hence Fralle's monk. Monks are a tad more fragile though given outside of Karma, but then again, best players playing so not the biggest issue given its a speed run tournament rather than a highest timed tournie.
drifting cloud
they got baseline buffed
keen inlet
lel.
drifting cloud
and got an amazing tier
glass compass
Ahhh
keen inlet
What Selia said
they basically were stealth-good
because they sucked for a while
and then were fixed but few ppl noticed/played them right
glass compass
Cuz I remember during NH era they were always bitching and complaining
vestal wren
monk got buffed
marble hemlock
yup
monk got buffed when it was already fine
cause noone played it at that time
thats how things usually go
sub was fine during end of NH, but barely anyone played it, so it got superbuffed for tos
and suddenly its all the rage
vestal wren
sub got reworked
sharp viper
monks got buffed because the combination out of 2set t19 and 4set t20 was strong, then that combination got nerfed but to compensate for that they got +15% aura buff
marble hemlock
true
fast nacelle
sub got reworked thats a difference
vestal wren
thats diffrent
fast nacelle
sub was fine since legion start
marble hemlock
but they still scaled up the numbers for sub
vestal wren
well the if could fuck you big time
marble hemlock
its hard to say though, since i dont think they anticipated dfa to become the new meme
vestal wren
dfa was not intended
vestal wren
you did in m+
fast nacelle
it was just the old sub was good if you could play it well and had proper legos
vestal wren
but even there it was 50/50
fast nacelle
then ppl found out about anticipation bug
or more like finality bug i guess?
and it was even better than assa
vestal wren
ye kind of
fast nacelle
tov it was already on par
on guarm
on helya a chinese sub rogue already padded like mad man
with shuriken storm on adds 😄
vestal wren
well dfa interaction made sub from a spec that require 100% uptime to a spec that was more burst phase oriented
sharp viper
anticipation bug?
marble hemlock
werent you playing sub at that point already fuu and destroying all the assa-boys?
vestal wren
finallity scaled up to 10 cp
instead of 5 (for evi)
btw. ds was at that time still slightly better then anticipation
anticipation was just easier to play out
vestal wren
you usually build finallity with 7+ or 8+
honest pelican
so the hidden appearnce in vault drops from any trove chest?
vestal wren
its maybe in my guide on mmoc still
sharp viper
oh wait finality scales with the cp used on the finality builder
vestal wren
it did
tho again it was worse then ds, just that noone played ds (except strpol)
strpol got with ds btw. #1 allstar in hc
was back then the only rogue playing the talent (of the top parsers)
fast nacelle
he had sick gear aswell
vestal wren
ofc
fast nacelle
he rly smashed it
glass compass
So do boots/bracers ever overtake bracers/mantle for poison? I see some top parse rogues with that combo.
sullen root
Fight timings matter alot on that decision, assuming you have a lot of gear to swap
lethal heart
timing and having strong pieces in leggo slot make difference
sullen root
Typically you want shoulders/bracers on most fights. Especially Imonar for example cause Vanish lines up well with the platforms. But on some fights Boots overtake shoulders due to tactics or phase transitions. EG. Coven is often a good choice for Boots/bracers for consistent cooldowns into adds
KIngaroth is another where boots often outshine shoulders
marble hemlock
using cooldowns on adds on coven YIKES
sullen root
Well, progress 😛
strange python
I use bracers shoulders on KG nowadays
sullen root
I killed it last night and we needed adds to die faster, so i used boots
lethal heart
having bdk to massgrip the adds and playing sub is 👌
glass compass
Ahh makes sense. I was asking cuz boots/bracers was pretty close last I simmed with shitty shoulders for mantle replacement
lethal heart
the walking adds*
drifting cloud
adds def die slower if you unequip shoulders
strange python
Think he was talking about unewuipping bracers
marble hemlock
how do you guys dps kin adds btw?
i normally do 5cp rupture, into vanish tb kb envenom mut env
lethal heart
yea that's what i'd do aswell
sullen root
I do the same
strange python
Sometimes I use vendetta
marble hemlock
usually i forget to use my horn of valor until after my vanish crit runs out
strange python
Depends on comp
marble hemlock
oh yeah obviously vendetta
during the rupture
to get max-NS TB while the add has as high stacks as possible
not sure if its worth popping tb/kb before the vanish and NS the envenom instead
marble hemlock
you lose high-stack 100% crit tb/kb though
sullen root
Hm I dont vendetta the rupture, I probably should actually.
lethal heart
yea and you can get giga unlucky
and get 1 cp tb 1 cp kb 2 cp muti
that would be
TILTER
drifting cloud
thast true aswell hmm
sullen root
If you go into the add with 5 CPs saved from Kin, you can fit all into stealth windows right?
spare cloud
Wanna do one?
strange python
Pushing keys but not mdi
marble hemlock
now this noobrogue is closing in on me again
strange python
🤔
spare cloud
I still need a +15 on my dk
lone junco
@marble hemlock wut
lethal heart
🕵
marble hemlock
creeping up on me
lethal heart
dude i'm trying to find some people
strange python
xd
marble hemlock
should push hard
lethal heart
this is actually such a bad sub rogue week tbh
marble hemlock
since none of the rogues above us are pushing
glass compass
What is this week's affixes?
marble hemlock
ashine/dajhaj/crenix playing mdi, miracle/dregan emo
lethal heart
well frankly who would miracle play with anyway
marble hemlock
teeming/quake/fort
lethal heart
on his rogue
sullen root
Wait who pulled out of Ashines team?
lethal heart
unless you wanna play double rogue
strange python
Still sucks
lethal heart
in your team and replace godmage LUL
strange python
@sullen root Blake
strange python
Yeah they did
lethal heart
are they playing with doru now?
marble hemlock
who?
lethal heart
probably?
marble hemlock
as far as im aware dorull is on vacation
which is why they got herudra in the first place
strange python
Still sucks that someone leaves on the last day of time trials
lethal heart
no idea then tbh
i mean i guess it was something important
if he couldnt play
for blake case at least
marble hemlock
blake has always been a bit random tho 😄
well
theres plenty of good people to pick from
drifting cloud
wait you can actually swap people for mdi?
marble hemlock
yeah
marble hemlock
the player that gets swapped out has to request a sub filling in, with everyone in the team confirming
sullen root
Why would you ragequit pre-MDI though? Sure, not getting certain times might be tilting in time trials but they've qualified
marble hemlock
and then you can sub in one player between timetrials/regionals
strange python
Idd
When I msgd him
He was like
And I quote
Divine field sucks at dk it’s a waste of my time
marble hemlock
lul
strange python
♿
glass compass
Lol grown ass men/women throwing tantrums
drifting cloud
lol arent they guildies aswell
echo estuary
i guess you havent played competitive overwatch
echo estuary
you'd be in for a surprise
marble hemlock
cuz divinefield is a god on his pally
we ourselves noticed what it means to have a dk that can play the class, but isnt as comfortable on it though
marble hemlock
its really stressful
strange python
Not really a man
marble hemlock
when your tank fucks up a bigpull for the third time because he forgot to hit one mob or didnt drop hos dnd/grips in the right order
strange python
Yeah
marble hemlock
thats really exhausting, especially when you push 10+ hours a day
marble hemlock
yeah
i mean i had to roll monk and it took me like8hours until i was performing like i expected to
strange python
I personally think it’s childish
marble hemlock
but for tank its harder to do
strange python
Tanks are a lot harder to play yeah
marble hemlock
since youre basically the one setting everything up all the time, a lot more can go wrong than just not doing perfect dps
strange python
Tanking in m+ is stressful man
sullen root
The amount of Quad WWs for the time trials is insane. How high is the MDI planned to be, 24s?
marble hemlock
22 for first round, 23 after, 24 for lower/winner bracket final
sullen root
So first round will see quite a few non-healer rosters if affixes/dungeon allows? Sounds fun
marble hemlock
dont think so
glass compass
I thought quad ww was just for upper. Is it run on other keys?
marble hemlock
its all about consistency
maybe the teams with smaller chances will try a high risk/reward strat
but i wouldnt expect the favourites to go 4dps in any dungeon really
lethal heart
yea but are you familiar with the rules?
they have to lock their comp
pre entire bo3
not pre map
pre entire bo3
marble hemlock
did they change it?
sullen root
Ah I see
lethal heart
well that was last time i talked to someone who got in
sullen root
Locking it in makes sense
steep obsidian
do they have to lock their specs in too?
marble hemlock
nah
steep obsidian
or just class
steep obsidian
ahh
strange python
Monk healer Kappa
lethal heart
and mostly fotm comps really
lethal heart
monk/bdk/resto druid every comp
marble hemlock
lethal heart
and then probably dh + 2nd monk if someone is ballsy or warlock for safety tbh
is it from when you were on tournie realm
marble hemlock
and you always know the map+affixes before 1st map
lethal heart
or you got it from like last 3 days?
steep obsidian
are you allowed to log a diiff toon for diff dungeon of same spec? like min max toon and relics for st and have one for aoe
marble hemlock
and i didnt get them since they only keep the regional teams on their mailing list
yes
lethal heart
marble hemlock
you can switch around however you want between runs
steep obsidian
so as long as it same class everything is ok
marble hemlock
damn
lethal heart
smoedone who got to regionals
marble hemlock
thats some nice changes
lethal heart
2nd point
strange python
Can you be summoned out and summoned back in
lethal heart
nope you cant
strange python
Touch e
marble hemlock
yeah
lethal heart
rogue was a pocket pick if anything
strange python
Ahaha
marble hemlock
i mean
lethal heart
but with this rul
marble hemlock
eoa might be
steep obsidian
not even for shroud you think?
marble hemlock
eoa rogue might be viable
steep obsidian
hmm i guess
lethal heart
but then
strange python
Rip rogue
keen inlet
this discussion is fine but can y'all say more than 3 words before hitting enter? thanks
lethal heart
you're cucking yourself for any other dungeon than eoa
unless you specifically practice
like if eoa is 1st map
marble hemlock
but eoa isnt a forced first map at all
marble hemlock
and its only in the pool
steep obsidian
tru
marble hemlock
so only eoa22
lethal heart
and have 3rd map also with rogue strat
marble hemlock
no 23/24
drifting cloud
you think anyone is gonna play warr
lethal heart
it's gonna be
rdruid/bdk/monk
in every comp
and then dh/monk/warlock/hunter/boomie MAYBE
monk/dh probably every comp even tbh
it's only last spot that might change imo 😄
marble hemlock
boomy is strong
lethal heart
unless there are people who legit are clueless in these classes then we might see some weird class
marble hemlock
so is mm