im scared of myself im an attic dweller
#assassination
wild lily
median marsh
guys, do you have any ideas for online tools for wow/rogue? trying to pick a project for school
might as well do something I'm going to use
median marsh
tool/website, as complex as raidbots/wowanalyzer..
sharp viper
the only suitable answer is: yes
sharp viper
like a mass community platform where people can write in text but can also use voice communication, easy to use with a browser app as well, if you want to make it specific for rogue you can make like a class community plattform where people can ask spec specific questions like assassination or outlaw or topic specific questions like pvp, transmog or theorycrafting
shrewd oriole
Yeah but does it have the guitar emoji disabled?
sharp viper
you could call it havenroldt
shrewd oriole
You could make a series of YouTube guides grossly misinformed
Call your channel contagiousgaming
median marsh
great ideas 
sharp viper
did that guy ever join ravenholdt to get more information or is he still stalking pandaren rogues in dalaran?
shrewd night
y u bully
lone junco
@median marsh get me a raid bots script or similar for healers. The fucking hpal process is in excel.
Makes me want to rip my eyes out.
Amr probably does it, but we don't like them any more.
shrewd oriole
Amr
quick ice
I think their healer stuff is more questionable than their damage stuff anyway
lone junco
Have to hand key your entire gear set and relics.
lone junco
Great work for excel. But compared to simc and raidbots is Stone Age.
shrewd oriole
It’s impossible to do something like raid bots for healers
There’s waaaaaaaaaaaaay more scenarios for healers
For dps it’s just
Pleep ploop damages
lone junco
So what. The excel has variables too. And makes assumptions.
I don't want to hand key my stats and trinkets and relics.
Top gear can do all that shit.
Impossible my ass.
steep obsidian
aldrianas spreadsheet was the shiz
steep obsidian
see people gave celestalon shit but he was one of them 😛
keen inlet
Celestalon was good at reverse engineering, perhaps even coding period etc
He was not good at design
steep obsidian
¯_(ツ)_/¯
keen inlet
which until we get to a point where classes are static
is a fatal flaw in a class developer
dire spoke
like PB
lone junco
Pb could have just been a proc. Then we mash it. Or hold it.
shrewd oriole
I would’ve loved a dire beast type system
Two charges on pull
With a recharge
Can get lucky and get more
shrewd oriole
Sure
steep obsidian
rupture just passively spreading in early legion beta was actually op as hell
it would have been funny
quick ice
that sounds fun tbh
lethal python
anyone have a link to the spreadsheet for where all the relics drop?
keen inlet
tbh tho
I feel like there's a bigger issue with wow that they've only scratched the surface of
with the GCD changes
Personally I'm not a huge fan of ULTRA-MASSIVE-PERFECTLY-CHOREOGRAPHED openers
frozen pecan
@lethal python relics drop from bosses
keen inlet
and having that just furthers a burst-style game, and a need for all specs to have initial burst to compete
(in other content, like M+ etc)
shrewd oriole
Plenty of specs lack burst and are super competitive
lethal python
@frozen pecan you're full of useful information
frozen pecan
wow 😟
lethal python
well where else are they going to drop from?
shrewd oriole
Ask dumb questions get dumb answers
frozen pecan
I just tried to help
lethal python
np sorry, misread your help as a troll
shrewd oriole
My momma always used to say
frozen pecan
wise momma
lethal python
there used to be a spreadsheet, it listed all the relics by class and where they dropped. I lost the link
frozen pecan
that sucks 😟
lone junco
@keen inlet gcd or not. There will be an efficient opener. Gcd just slows it down and makes the gap between robot and noob thinner.
shrewd oriole
Blizzard making changes to thin the gap between good players and bad players
Hmmmm
🤔
lone junco
Gcd is purely being added because devs are not smarter than thousands of TC.
They can't predict the imbalances.
shrewd oriole
They’re often told
And just disregard it
The pk mut situation was told to the devs a long time before it actually happened
For example
vestal wren
pk situation was solved quite good
shrewd oriole
I disagree but we
vestal wren
inbalance between sub and sin was predicted, yet not reacted by blizz
lone junco
I like the mut fix.
vestal wren
reason why sub is lower tuned then sin
lone junco
But with slowing down the macro style apl is not a bad thing.
shrewd oriole
Blizzard doesn’t care about spec imbalances tbh lol
Some specs are perpetually shit and blizzard doesn’t address it
vestal wren
they would not buff sin if they wouldnt care
shrewd oriole
They buffed sin to fix their own fuck up
vestal wren
just dissable the trait on aoe would be suefficient if what you say is true
shrewd oriole
Not cuz sub was stronger
vestal wren
the solution caused a lot more effort, if they dont care they wont put it in
shrewd oriole
If they hadn’t nerfed pk and buffed mut we would pk on st which they clearly didn’t want
vestal wren
your statement makes no sense
lone junco
Gcd has nothing to do with pk or sin/sub balance.
sharp viper
good old swafty oneshot macros pressing every ability at once
shrewd oriole
Your statement makes no sense lmao
They’re not putting in effort to fix spec imbalance
vestal wren
they did
shrewd oriole
They’re putting in effort to fix an undesired rotation
Fixing spec imbalance is a byproduct
lone junco
Some things are harder to deal with in a given architecture.
shrewd oriole
Not their goal
keen inlet
@shrewd oriole that is patently untrue lol
vestal wren
if they didnt care at all why not:
- let it in
- just dissable the trait on aoe
vestal wren
instead invest hours in researching a way to balance it out and even buff the spec slightly?
shrewd oriole
Because they care if a spec doesn’t play like they want it to
keen inlet
You forget (or are unaware) that we literally had the rogue developer change mid-expansion. New dev came in to several messes and worked with the community to bring about what changes he could
dire spoke
lone junco
Pk Mut fix went really well.
vestal wren
the trait was never designed for st, so just dissabling it would have fixed it
and thats a 10 minute work
quick ice
A) we had a designated rogue dev?
B) they changed?
shrewd oriole
You’re not understanding my point. I’m saying they don’t care if sub is stronger than assa, they only care of specs play the way they envision
Some specs are constantly shit and they don’t address it
As long as they feel fine to play
quick ice
is that why the guy in the QnA on reddit said "idk why haste doesn;t work on bleeds?"
vestal wren
well its still way off
drifting cloud
yeah but when specs are just baseline shit
they need another xpac to fix that most of the time
lone junco
I never minded dfa to dance. But vanish/ss or vanish/env macros are bullshit.
vestal wren
blizz is 100% not fine how melee hunter turned out, yet they had not enough ressources to only focus on solving this issue
lone junco
Resources and money.
shrewd oriole
They clearly care if the spec feels bad to play as evidenced by the examples you just gave
However those examples would be extremely time consuming
vestal wren
they are also limited to ressources, what makes your initial statement even less potent. given they have low ressources AND due to your personal statement dont care at balance at all, why would they fix PK in a time expensive matter when they could just fix it by dissabling it in st.
drifting cloud
regardin stupid PK I have 5 of them
drifting cloud
I legit still dont know
shrewd oriole
Don’t act like the change was particularly time consuming
Or required a ton of resources
Comparing the pk change to the rework a spec like survival needs is ridiculous
vestal wren
well they delayed other balance changes due to sin + balance
so i wouldnt say they where not
shrewd oriole
Sin and moonkin
keen inlet
Any time they tweak a knob it sends ripples Tom
shrewd oriole
Cuz moonkin had a similar issue
keen inlet
and they don't want to turn a knob to have to nerf heavily later
lone junco
Sin was at the bottom of the st tree. It needed work.
keen inlet
players hate that
drifting cloud
wasnt the pk change like a 10% buff to assa almost
shrewd oriole
Nah way less
drifting cloud
just because they didnt want us to fok on st
quick ice
3-4% iirc
vestal wren
was not that significant
quick ice
less uf yiu were a fokker
shrewd oriole
Nah, over the regular build at the time
The fok build Simmed higher on simcraft than assa does rn
vestal wren
pk was only huge due to the dp bug
shrewd oriole
Yeah
vestal wren
without it was only a minimal gain
shrewd oriole
Pk with the dp bug Simmed close to warrior
lone junco
FOK and nsdp are very different.
shrewd oriole
vestal wren
well to get the impact
sin went from last place to first place on the stacked graph with the bugs
shrewd oriole
And @lone junco after heroic week they don’t buff underperforming specs
That’s just not a thing that happens
There are specs that are way worse than sin was before the mut changes without fok
drifting cloud
oh right I totally forgot about that silly bug
shrewd oriole
Blizzard is totally fine with specs being outright bad for the encounter
lone junco
All 3 rogue specs were dumpster.
shrewd oriole
Sub was great on progress
vestal wren
btw. TC's know and communicated that sub will be left behind with the changes made to sin
shrewd oriole
Up until people got full 4 set
vestal wren
sub was great due to tos impact what was high on progression
shrewd oriole
Exactly
drifting cloud
yeah its almost funny how dead sub is in raid atm
lone junco
Anyway. I'm getting out of this circle jerk.
shrewd oriole
Sub was great up until like coven
vestal wren
titanforging makes the old rate extrmeely impactfull on the new progression
shrewd oriole
Aggra as well
vestal wren
sub is still great on aggra and argus
sharp viper
no sub on KG tho
shrewd oriole
After that people start getting 4p and m gear and sub falls behind
Sub is not great on argus lol
vestal wren
tho aggra requires a good strat to get sub ahead, else its not that great
sharp viper
the current sub 4set is garbage, does not work on shurikenstorm
spare cloud
How is sub great on argus and agg
drifting cloud
id rather play outlaw than sub on argus
spare cloud
🤔
shrewd oriole
Same tbh ryler
keen inlet
Sub will be getting some attention
sharp viper
and yeah you need to be able to storm the adds on aggramar to truely pull ahead
keen inlet
don't worry
primary focus right now is outlaw on bfa because it needs most work
but sub will be getting some love.
shrewd oriole
@sharp viper I played sub on kg progress
sharp viper
without dfa?
shrewd oriole
With a 955 horn of valor
No with dfa lol
Sub is fine on kg
It’s just annoying
But it’s perfectly do able
vestal wren
main reason sin is now played is the buff to the spec due to bugs, its kind of history repeating (nighthold)
drifting cloud
yeah I never had problems with sub on kg
vestal wren
sub on king is annoying asf
drifting cloud
worst case you just tell people to not stand where dfa lands so they dont spawn lanterns there
shrewd oriole
It’s not nearly as annoying as sub on argus
vestal wren
especially with close minded tanks that bomb you every time you want to dfa
spare cloud
keen inlet
Sin had issues because of the AP rework. Outlaw had issues because of RTB implementation (and band-aid fixing). Sub has issues because of DFA.
All of this stuff took half an expac to work out, more or less, and/or a major content publish (BFA) to address
But I honestly have a lot of faith in our direction. I encourage you to do the same
vestal wren
subs main issue was boots
keen inlet
well, legendary design is a separate but related issue imo
vestal wren
they where worth ~25% dps or more while acting like a ♿
drifting cloud
well boots were the most broken lego in the game
shrewd oriole
Faith
keen inlet
see also: Azerite Armor and the waves of sadness on forums rn
shrewd oriole
drifting cloud
just most people didnt even know since nobody played the spec 😄
keen inlet
look I've been an outspoken critic of class design in the past
shrewd oriole
Who was the rogue dev in wod
keen inlet
the fact that I'm not currently should speak volumes
vestal wren
dfa beeing the go-to talent was not intended
shrewd oriole
Who was rogue dev in legion
keen inlet
Celes for first half.
warm parcel
still cele
shrewd oriole
Wtf happened to him
keen inlet
He went to Hearthstone.
keen inlet
Better optimized for touchpad play 😉
quick ice
so do we know who our new dev is?
shrewd oriole
How does someone design wod combat
keen inlet
We do.
shrewd oriole
And then goes on to create outlaw
vestal wren
seph is our deth now
keen inlet
Some of us do.
shrewd oriole
shrewd oriole
Imagine old ks on ahc
warm parcel
keen inlet
thonk
shrewd oriole
Guess I’ll go cancel my vacations
vestal wren
augus 14 👀
keen inlet
That's a full month ahead of what I expected
steep obsidian
it feels like there is so much left to test and put in
shrewd oriole
That date is a fbm
keen inlet
3 months
shrewd oriole
Having to level instead of going on summer vacations
drifting cloud
yeah alpha feels super potato
shrewd oriole
But I get its never gonna appease everyone
lone junco
We cancelled raids already.
keen inlet
they do actually for internal testing have several publishes ahead of "live alpha"
lone junco
In the dead zone.
keen inlet
Was talking to a blizz employee about that
Their internal QA/etc team works 2-3 builds ahead
drifting cloud
wheres the antorus nerfs
keen inlet
Which seems counter-intuitive, but w/e
drifting cloud
pls give
quick ice
isn't 14AUG 4 months away don?
keen inlet
@drifting cloud You didn't hear? Argus nerfs are AP obv 😉
vestal wren
i dont think we will see any nerfs to raids
keen inlet
"if you want a nerf you should farm AP harder"
lone junco
@drifting cloud Only nerf I see you'll be a cap raise on m+ box
shrewd oriole
@keen inlet that’s tilting
drifting cloud
nah its gonna get nerfed once
shrewd oriole
Tyler have you downed argus yet?
drifting cloud
it would make no sense to not be
shrewd notch
honestly i don't want nerfs
shrewd oriole
So all the plebs don’t get titanslayer
keen inlet
You can always turn nerfs off 
vestal wren
gear and ap makes the content easier, i doubt they will nerf it further
keen inlet
And if you're upset at somebody getting your shiny title when they could just buy it anyway...
¯_(ツ)_/¯
lone junco
I wouldn't want nerds either. But ilvl scale is an earned effort.
keen inlet
¯_(ツ)_/¯
shrewd oriole
Farming 10M gold is harder than M raiding
keen inlet
el
shrug
ger
ino
vestal wren
itemlvl is not an earned effort
lone junco
Ilvl from valor tokens in wod.
shrewd oriole
That was a huge nerf to the raid
lone junco
Is diff than -8% boss damage /health.
shrewd oriole
If monks got more ilvl tho
vestal wren
ppl with multiple argus clears can be 970 while others with 3mythic bosses down can have 980
shrewd oriole
Def don’t want that
vestal wren
tellme how thats a earned effort
shrewd oriole
Some guy here the other day
lone junco
I prefer it.
keen inlet
fwiw I have no issues with it
but it isn't earned
lone junco
People are not guilds.
shrewd oriole
Doesn’t help that most assa loot is early in the instance
Yep
Coven drops good off piece gloves
I wear em
drifting cloud
still coining ahc and pk
lone junco
Sure it is. Takes time to regrind m+. A flat boss nerf is weak.
shrewd oriole
Ryler, have you killed it?
drifting cloud
what?
shrewd oriole
Argus
drifting cloud
uhm yeah like 3 weeks ago
lone junco
I think you are mistaking guild skill level as earned. Vs time played.
shrewd oriole
Ah Nice
lone junco
Ring?
shrewd oriole
Clear 10/11 every week then go watch Netflix
vestal wren
mastery/versa ring?
shrewd oriole
I have one at base m ilvl
dire spoke
Has BfA release been announced just now?
shrewd oriole
Yes
dire spoke
sources?
vestal wren
"the boss has no loot i have a wf/tf/socket hc version" 🤔
dire spoke
nvmd
shrewd oriole
1 item that isn’t even bis stats
shrewd notch
do we know when pre-patch is out (and CE isn't available)
shrewd oriole
Is not enough loot to make me do the boss
drifting cloud
yeah with raid loot you use the ring if you get a ring from cache you probably wont
ornate aspen
So whos hype for everyone getting prydaz and +5 ilevel gold traits on heart of azeroth?
vestal wren
prydaz hype
ornate aspen
I know I am
drifting cloud
cant wait for it to get redesigned 3 times in next 4months
steep obsidian
yeah like
steep obsidian
alpha has gotta be miles behind rn
shrewd oriole
It’s p bad
steep obsidian
surely
vestal wren
iirc there was a twitter post that its still wip
shrewd oriole
Who doesnt
steep obsidian
fuck the whole relic system
lone junco
Me.
steep obsidian
nlc just made it worse
vestal wren
so azerite gear is currently still under construction
lone junco
Relics are fine. Destroying relics is the garbage.
steep obsidian
if you could swap relics in and out
shrewd oriole
😦
shrewd night
Cuz the current azerite gear is just nlc
Nah. Every slot has set in stone slots. Meaning two shoulders will always have the same trait, according to their blizzcon interviews
ornate aspen
Besides the random factor the two systems are damn near identical
shrewd oriole
^
vestal wren
azerite gear has other issues.
mainly that its spec locked and you likely need to farm multiple instances of the same pice
ornate aspen
They both give you shit abilities that arent interesting and add nothing to gameplay
Its just a meaningless progress bar to fill then look up a guide on which does the most damage
shrewd oriole
I def look forward to having to farm a set for aoe a set for st a set for two target cleave a set for dungeon aoe
For sub and assa
ornate aspen
I look forward to playing ESO's new summerset isles expansion during BFA :^)
shrewd oriole
ES
vestal wren
hehe in worst case you need to re-farm your set with gear advancement
ornate aspen
They recently added transmog, so ESO is a real game now
vestal wren
e.g. if the pure damage trait is bis on early progression but the mastery trait is bis with higher gear
lone junco
Azerite needs to just respec in town or with books.
And switch on spec swap.
Else rip hybrids.
quick ice
yeah, the way it is now makes you really not want to play healer and DPS at the same time
or tank/dps, etc
ornate aspen
Or anything
vestal wren
jusp play single dps spec classes
lone junco
Rip Druid.
vestal wren
problem solved
lone junco
Just.
lone junco
Nah. We need flex dps/heal. And tank/dps.
ornate aspen
Play shadow all xpac
shrewd oriole
They make sub and ol feel like shit
lone junco
Dh.
ornate aspen
Just farm haste
shrewd oriole
So that you don’t have to farm azerite for them
Blizzard with the 4D rogue chess
lone junco
Or be like loktark and just put on blinders.
And hammer away
His sin and sub weeps are like 35pts.
Outlaw like 87?
keen inlet
tbh
For some people
having a numerically inferior spec becomes the challenge to rise above
lone junco
I enjoy options and flex.
keen inlet
I have mad respect for Loktark
lone junco
He's def top of the outlaw game.
keen inlet
and the other Outlaws who stayed true. I feel dirty for playing Sin
(though I've gone back OTL)
shrewd oriole
I have a mix of respect and disgust
lone junco
Not me. Slower and better.
shrewd oriole
Respect because he’s not in my guild
lone junco
Sin is superior in a lot of ways.
shrewd oriole
But if that motherflipper was playing outlaw on kj progression
lone junco
Even if sim dps were equal.
vestal wren
sin was the most popular and best tuned spec for the majority of the xpack
lone junco
His dps is always top in guild.
ornate aspen
The challenge to rise above is getting into a guild that lets you play a meme spec
lone junco
People are not guilds.
shrewd oriole
Plus his gear is nutty
lone junco
His snd logs are pretty nutty
lone junco
Anyway. Azerite is gonna suck.
shrewd oriole
The lack of spec flexibility is, regardless of how good he is, a handicap
vestal wren
tom you need to stop to draw conclusion from yourself to others
ornate aspen
Kek
drifting cloud
why nothing happens in the first 2 weeks anyways? 😛
shrewd oriole
To penetrate my nostrils
drifting cloud
you just level up do some dungeons and afk till raid comes out
shrewd oriole
As I level
strange python
Hi, I have a question about poisons pls.. Is there any difference in dmg if you apply both Crippling and Deadly poisonto weapon? Do they proc at the same time if they should or separately?
shrewd oriole
It’s not from myself to others
ornate aspen
No
shrewd oriole
What does that even mean
If you just play one spec you’re handicapped versus someone who plays all specs
vestal wren
cant wait for the "pro players" to have the sick farm that m+ in en was start once again
ornate aspen
Apply both, it changes nothing @strange python
shrewd oriole
Idk
strange python
Thanks
shrewd oriole
I can see m+ opening up the week heroic does
Which still just means endless grinding
ornate aspen
Fuck raiding, ill be grinding gear so I can sell m+ carries week 1 for 700k a pop
Easy money
vestal wren
raid wont be before september 😉
shrewd oriole
But leveling is the worst part
vestal wren
idk will not be that extrme
shrewd oriole
How hot does it get in Croatia
vestal wren
lvling with the base gear on alpha seems not that slow, will far faster with raid gear
shrewd oriole
Cuz my problem is not missing vacations
It’s mostly cuz it’s gone be between 35 and 40 degrees outside
Gonna pass out with how bad my sweaty armpits smell
Oh well
Hyped
manic vigil
Your mom is gonna pay for ac I'm sure 
vestal wren
you just need to adept:
shrewd oriole
We have ac but it’s still not enough
@vestal wren is that a resto shaman player cam
manic vigil
If the dudes in the middle of the friggin desert can have a cool room then so can you
Get a better one
shrewd oriole
lone junco
Mooommmmmm. I need a cool room!
Mom: you are already pretty cool
Tom: thx mom.
manic vigil
iron sierra
Hi dudes, new to the discord. Where’s the best place to post a log with some questions?
vestal wren
i assume sin as he only asked here
shrewd oriole
Each spec has it’s appropriate channel
So if you’re sin post it here
Yep
Idk he said he’s new 🤷
iron sierra
Yeah im sin
Posting from mobile, please let me know if that’s not readable
Anyways, trying to figure out what I can do to improve besides rolling the shoulders next legendary drop
strange python
Why is warcraftlogs so atrocious on mobile
iron sierra
I know that im missing a neck/ring enchant
vestal wren
maybe because its a 1 man hobby project
but you can use the desktop view on most mobile browsers
iron sierra
Did that link work?
vestal wren
yes it worked
shrewd oriole
Yep that works fine
iron sierra
O ok just checking
manic vigil
Maybe we should all throw our money at that dude
shrewd oriole
Your problem isn’t just the lack of shoulders
Your gear is atrocious
You have so much haste
With how much crit you have compared to mastery I’d say boots are probably better than shoulders as your next drop
shrewd night
Is this the new Matt?
iron sierra
Yeah definitely and thanks for the input
shrewd oriole
Have you Simmed yourself?
slim estuary
How do I make guild not be bad? Just wiped 3 hrs on kin cause same people did same shit
shrewd oriole
Cuz you have an agi gem
And mastery enchants
I think crit would be your highest simming stat
manic vigil
Lead by example @slim estuary
shrewd oriole
It probably isn’t agi tho
iron sierra
I honestly havent.. i know im committing a sin forgive me
manic vigil
Or go and find a better one like Tom
shrewd oriole
So go sim yourself right now
manic vigil
shrewd oriole
Get yourself some stat weights and avg dps then come back I’ll give you some more help
Baby steps
iron sierra
Can do that on mobile?
shrewd oriole
No
iron sierra
Rip
iron sierra
No i absolutely will whenever i have access to my pc (saturday)
strange python
You logged out as a sub rogue so I can't sim you
iron sierra
I used the list on icy veins to pick netherlight path
crimson knoll
Check the pin
crimson knoll
^
shrewd oriole
That’s herodamage.com/rogue/relics or whatever
Easy to find once you’re on herodamage . Com
iron sierra
Im just a noob i guess. Keep hitting me with these facts i need them
crimson knoll
Look at the pinned messages, there are links to the assassination guide and sims
That’s a good starting point
iron sierra
I’ve gone through the guide in terms of gameplay, which I think im following well, but i wanted to make sure
Clearly have a lot of work to do outside of that
shrewd oriole
Your rotation isn’t too shabby
Your vanish use is incorrect
You should be vanishing to apply rupture
So for example you have 4 cps and vanish is up
Don’t use garrote like you did in the log
That’s only as subterfuge
iron sierra
Outside of opener or always?
shrewd oriole
You wanna vanish rupture
iron sierra
Good to know thanks
shrewd oriole
Can’t really look much further cuz wcl is aids on mobile
strange python
Your envenom uptime is great for your item level.
It's mostly your gear holding you back
solid nova
If you look at the parse for your item level its not that bad at all
And you dont have 4 set which contributes a lot too
strange python
There was a time where you held onto toxic blade for almost 40 seconds
and yes he does
strange python
There were a few times that you used toxic blade and then immediately refreshed your dots
So that ends up wasting the majority of the toxic blade buff
dire spoke
iron sierra
So if I have dots coming down in the next 5-6 seconds i should hold toxic bladd
Blade fml mobile
dire spoke
toxic blyat
strange python
It's also a good idea to pool some energy before using toxic blade so you have an easier time fitting at least two envenoms in during its duration
iron sierra
That’s good to know
Anything i need to be doing differently in pairing tb / kingsbane?
solid nova
TB on CD is currently the highest dps outside of how you'd pair them on the opener
iron sierra
I typically use tb on cd unless theres a 5-10 second difference in their cds
Alrighty
dire spoke
If you use TB on CD you will have it for every KB
solid nova
Exactly
desert karma
Should you just KB and TB in your opener?
solid nova
?
drifting cloud
desert karma
Im not a troll
strange python
You almost beat that other 960 sin rogue in your guild which is clearly doing a lot more wrong than you are
shrewd oriole
Yes you are
solid nova
What does the opener in the guide tell you?
desert karma
No, Im not
iron sierra
Yeah i just want to do the best i can
light jacinth
🥒
iron sierra
The ~60% parse with similar ilvl doesnt sit right with me
shrewd oriole
Few*
solid nova
Yeah Grannos you're doing fine - its more gear and fine tuning to be honest
shrewd oriole
Then you overdid it
desert karma
Im not a troll
iron sierra
Ill sim myself for weights to gem/chant correctly when i get the chance
shrewd oriole
@light jacinth kys you Australian noob
light jacinth
yo wtf
iron sierra
Obviously dont drop 4 set for mastery, but is there a good guideline for ilvl drop to pick up mastery? Or is that answered with sims too
shrewd oriole
Keep Yourself Simmed
gaunt moat
!mute @shrewd oriole
desert karma
So I have stealth, then I use vendetta and then open with garrote and then KB and TB and then rupture
solid nova
No
No you dont
Read the guide
Then type
The amount of times I have sent a screenshot of what a standard opener looks like
And you give me that
vast thicket
its really easy man look at the pins and it will tell u
desert karma
I cant fit all that stuff into one window though, I have tried it
vast thicket
been thinking about the argus fight
solid nova
Think I'm just going to block you - bye
vast thicket
do u guys think its worth saving vanish till u get 1-2 stacks or the mastery buff?
desert karma
@solid nova Im asking legit questions, stop being a dick about it and just help me get better :/
solid nova
I wonder how many times i can find you asking the same question
And we're back to how we open are we?
I've send you numerous messages to help you
So cry all you want
hoary copper
You've been trolling with questions for a month, let's be honest
gaunt moat
@desert karma please understand people don't owe you answers. and so they expect you to do the maximum research you can do by yourself before asking questions.
desert karma
I have tried what the guide says before, I cant fit that all into that opener window
im not a troll
solid nova
And ive sat for probably hours now giving you advice
drifting cloud
press buttons faster.
solid nova
You either are a troll or just incapable of reading whats infront of you
iron sierra
Thanks for all the help guys i really appreciate it. Will be back post sims this weekend if i have any more questions
gaunt moat
he's not a troll, so you should stop with that as well.
solid nova
I find that incredibly hard to believe
dire spoke
@desert karma what hinders you pressing buttons in the right order?
gaunt moat
if you don't want to help him, you don't have to feel obliged to do it.
desert karma
I tried it on dummies @dire spoke its like I cant get the KB in before the shoulders buff expires
and I have been using keybinds
dire spoke
Do you have bad internet or something?
lone junco
@desert karma
desert karma
I have a 4MB uncapped adsl line @dire spoke 😃
dire spoke
because I'm clicking and can do it
so just practice or post logs for further research
desert karma
@lone junco why does that graph show 2 mutilates at the same time? 😃
vast thicket
i think theres a website that helps u with ur logs , forgot the name
solid nova
Thats why you get 2 cps
vast thicket
u just link it to them and they give u tips
solid nova
4 if crit
lone junco
@vast thicket it doesnt work with sin
vast thicket
oh
desert karma
Ah, I see. Thought it just counted as one ability ;D
gaunt moat
@desert karma mutilate is an ability that hits twice. for each hand. that's why it has 2 icons on the timeline.
lone junco
i gives good info. just not a detailed breakdown
solid nova
It is 1 ability, but the damage is broken down.
desert karma
That's why I was asking for a SoT tracker yesterday, because I always seem to be energy starved and miss my SoT uptime (told it was important)
Something just isnt right with my dps
according to my sim
dire spoke
why don't you use a WA sin pack ?
desert karma
a sin pack?
lone junco
@desert karma are you within 5% of your simc average when for garothi or varith?
dire spoke
a complete assassination weakauras UI
desert karma
On pure st I sim around 1,7 mil and I get around 1,4-1,6 mil
drifting cloud
yeah hes trolling for sure
desert karma
the one time I broke my sim score I had lucky PB procs
drifting cloud
you linked a pic of your char it was over 960 with proper gear no way that sims 1.7 mil
drifting cloud
just making stuff up as you go
dire spoke
you have to post logs for detailed help, otherwise there is not much use bothering discord because you actually know what to do and just need practice
desert karma
Let me try and find it, did a sim here in this discord
dire spoke
warcraftlogs, not sim
desert karma
someone said I shouldnt do logs because it would be too much for my internet to handle
drifting cloud
🤣
dire spoke
give us your toon-realm then so we can look it up
keen inlet
It might be tough for your connection/pc/whatever if you're running them, but somebody else can run them for your group
desert karma
I wonder if they were, will have to ask
desert karma
I got into my guilds HC group btw, I have been trying hard 😄
dire spoke
There can be existing logs already if you joined pug and somebody logged, so hand us your toon name and realm
vestal wren
💢 🥔
desert karma
So I finally hit the 6 mil HP mark too 😄
dont want anyone to hack me, so I sent you pm Zempai 😄
dire spoke
@desert karma there are logs
short token
guys please don't rip my head off i just have to check in here first before i swap a 965 relic for a 940. Crucible weight is showing my 940 relic (master assass/chaotic dark/master alch) is a 10 point gain over my 965 one (envenom/shocklight/cloak of shadows) has anybody here lost that many item levels on a relic before and still had an upgrade?
just would like opinions
lone junco
@short token weights are guides. use the relic compare tool before swap
desert karma
@dire spoke what do they say? 😄
short token
yep, relic compare tool showing a 10 point gain
drifting cloud
sim it instead of crucible weights
lone junco
10 what gain
desert karma
Probably bad 😢
lone junco
10dps or 10%
dire spoke
@desert karma that you don't know the opener
lone junco
@short token https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/relic
short token
@lone junco checkin that out, thanks
desert karma
@dire spoke does ping affect how fast you can click buttons?
dire spoke
It doesn't matter what your ping is when you hit the wrong buttons
lone junco
@short token recommend using the /simc addon to get your ingame values. Dont rely on armory import
It doesn't matter what your ping is when you hit the wrong buttons
🥇
desert karma
I just tend to panic too much when the count down timer comes up 😢
Will work on it @dire spoke
dire spoke
@desert karma https://snag.gy/3W9Iw0.jpg
Maybe you're just bad as melee and you should spend more time on your warlock
astral sundial
might be a bad time to ask after the guy was just told to trust the sim...but I can "downgrade" my relics from 960/955 to 940/945 to gain triple MA (running boots/insignia EP/TB). raidbots shows 0.7% dps lost (max is just a bit under 2m). is that meaningful enough of a difference? i'd like to believe triple MA is also easier (or well, more flowing) to handle
gaunt moat
if you lose dps, why change it
steep obsidian
i mean it "feels" nicer not having to delay vanish for as long but if sim says it a dps loss it a dps loss
¯_(ツ)_/¯
desert karma
@dire spoke going to try and master the opener and see if I can click buttons faster to get it all in
dire spoke
@desert karma if you're having trouble being in hit range hit sprint pre-pull, it will help if tanks pull bosses around
manic vigil
astral sundial
@gaunt moat since I wasn't sure at what numbers the difference is meaningful. it could be down to the length of the fight or my actual gameplay, one my get on top of the other
desert karma
Yeah, that makes me panic when tanks do that
dire spoke
I always hit sprint on 2s ... pot on 1s
astral sundial
also @steep obsidian no delaying vanish without shoulders and nightstalker anyway..
manic vigil
Swiss precision tho
steep obsidian
tru
manic vigil
desert karma
I just tend to keep sprint for those moments when I get caught in a bad spot xD
dire spoke
you don't need that in the first half minute
steep obsidian
i downgraded my relic ilvl for a very very minor dps upgrade and that was just my thought is all
3ma just felt a lot better to play then 1 with shoulders
gaunt moat
@astral sundial meaningful or not, as you said, a sim doesn't tell the whole story...
it's a guideline to what's best
if you lose dps, it's most likely not best
astral sundial
@dire spoke I just stand as close to the boss as possible, making everyone nervous as shit
desert karma
@dire spoke must one always keep up SoT during KB?
I was told that, dunno if its true
dire spoke
Yes
astral sundial
well the first few seconds SoT is not important but you gonna keep envenom up anyway
desert karma
I was having an issue with that so i made a SoT tracker with Toph's help
so during KB, is it okay to use envenom at like 2/3 cp to keep sot up?
solid nova
@manic vigil New to this game btw, got over 200 HC kills in the current tier and have curve from NH onwards but I'm new and trying to get better
manic vigil
@solid nova 
solid nova
Not a troll btw
manic vigil
That's some next level dedication to his trolling tho
dire spoke
@desert karma 3cp is a damage loss but it's not that big - your goal is still 4+
https://snag.gy/7L13hJ.jpg outside of burst phases you're okay-ish
at least on that fight
drifting cloud
leaked char name 🤔
lone junco
@astral sundial the jump from 2x to 3x vend is big for shoulders. For insig boots it is prob a little less. for Insig bracer its prob a little more. 0.7% isnt insignificant, but just be careful swapping relics. 😦
drifting cloud
noobe is there a pin somewhere explaining exactly why 2 MA sucks
lone junco
sec
manic vigil
Did I miss something again? 
still ptsd about missing the nudes yesterday 
crimson knoll
Is the jump at 7/7 MA just due to how it lines up vendetta and vanish?
lone junco
@drifting cloud so given a 5min. or a 4-6min sim you just get less vanish alignments.
this is for a fixed time sample of 5min.
astral sundial
@lone junco it is actually a jump from 1 to 3 - even without shoulders, MA gains more benefit the more you have of it.
if I replace only 1
I lose way more dps
like 2 or 3%
lone junco
seconds
spare cloud
???
spare cloud
manic vigil
Quickmaff
spare cloud
good thing I saved this picture.
astral sundial
or else I might think you are bad at clock reading?
drifting cloud
so if you change the fight duration to 6min for example all this gets thrown out the window?
manic vigil
Yeah you need it a lot lately toph
lone junco
you wont magically gain vanish conditions.
manic vigil
Tbf my math prof was bad at actually calculating stuff too
drifting cloud
yeah but if youre delaying everytime and then it makes you lose a vanish cast because of it
lone junco
but. any time you delay for mechanics, like garothi hands, the desync is thinner
drifting cloud
does it then become a dps loss
lone junco
thats the point
spare cloud
Yeah because they usually dont calculate much
lone junco
I use a calculator for basic math
manic vigil
Exactly
lone junco
but some of our eng prof were gods on a whiteboard.
spare cloud
Yeah
because they do applied maths
way more important to be good at calculating
well not really important
lone junco
I like when they eliminate the irrelevant digits. like just strike them out and round to 15k
spare cloud
In our economics class
lone junco
cause scale matters. decimals rarely do. (unless factors)
lone junco
@drifting cloud that make sense?
spare cloud
fun thing that the economics class I have is not only math students
but also other students
and they be like
drifting cloud
so apl delays vanish everytime to lineup with MA?
spare cloud
wtf is dis
manic vigil
Been there, didn't get that @spare cloud 
lone junco
yes
lone junco
with shoulders yes
drifting cloud
its so situational youd have to know exact kill timers
lone junco
thats why non shoulder builds are popular. vanish alignment is far less important
sims are not situational
spare cloud
Yeah well in economics fields
you can just work with a calculator and be good
because all you do is arithmetic
lone junco
@drifting cloud but yeah. Kingo is a great example. 2min adds. 2min vanish. you hold vendetta for 45sec.
drifting cloud
or you just go boots 😛
spare cloud
only because you get a dmg buff on the adds though
manic vigil
Idk I hated eco class for the non mathy stuff
spare cloud
lone junco
I prefer exang because the 45sec peaks work well at any time duration.
spare cloud
I have economics as my second study field
lone junco
good choice
manic vigil
manic vigil
Fuck it
spare cloud
Yeah I'll basically work in the same field as the dudes who focus on pure economics
except im more qualified for higher positions
lone junco
have a smidge of code capability and should do pretty well. esp with data.
spare cloud
its not rough if you study pure math because the secondary study field is not supposed to be tough
Im just not that interested in physics
and I suck at it
lone junco
yeah. no product, no career.
spare cloud
if you study pure physics
lone junco
gotta do a thing
lone junco
begging for grants 🙅
lone junco
dabbling and hobbies do not pay the bills.
and research positions are far rarer than product develoment teams.
manic vigil
Nothing else matters
spare cloud
I mean
lone junco
we have discussed this. but i dont think being a Physics 1-3 teacher is the end goal.
manic vigil
Economics is for sellouts
lone junco
its like learning music theory and not playing an insturment.
manic vigil
Why you do dis
lone junco
if there is no product, you are wasting your time.
spare cloud
Yeah
manic vigil
spare cloud
Math is like the instrument for physics
lone junco
"wasting" i mean, no diff than wow TC
astral sundial
well computer science is also a place for mathmaticans
spare cloud
I study how to build the instruments not how to play them
lone junco
math is the music. Engineering is the instrument.
astral sundial
not the other way around? >>
manic vigil
Fair enough toph
spare cloud
I was talking specifically about physics
manic vigil
You gotta do what you want anyway
spare cloud
Math builds the basis that physics use to do their stuff
lone junco
the math is the raw notes. physics would be the chords and emotion of music.
spare cloud
I am not good with metaphors
lone junco
lol aside. my brother got a degree in music comp and trombone
lone junco
Day he grad HS, I asked him what he plans to do
Day he grad college, he said. I fucking hate being a band teacher. im going back for networking
dire spoke
you should work like a man
spare cloud
Are you saying studying is not work?
its just not physical work
so youre basically saying everything that is not physical is not work
🤔
brisk forge
Work=cash. Study=will earn cash. So to be picky in the common sense study isnt working per sej
brisk forge
Make no sense tbh. The point is way off
spare cloud
I consider everything that gets you closer towards a certail goal work
brisk forge
Its just prep not work
brisk forge
Goal as a purpose to work i Guess
solid nova
What if im a volunteer 🤔
spare cloud
all a question of definition
thats what I'm trying to say
or rather how you define the word for yourself
since the second defintion states income
so yeah
lone junco
Career Goal: Find something you like, that are good at, and people will pay you for.
2/3 is a miserable career or a fun hobby
spare cloud
What if you like it and you are bad at it
but people still pay you for it
I dont think thats an issue
🤷
But in many cases if you do something you enjoy you will become good at it
the issue is that if you dont enjoy smth then youre less likely to learn it
And I'm out again.
lone junco
if you are bad at it, it will be a long miserable career
just like wow streamer. Being good, and enjoying, but no financial stability 🙅
lone junco
it sucks.
lone junco
good luck finding the fun/bad/paid
If I got paid for M+, I guess that would count.
but its not paying for my kids braces
I guess trump counts. Fun/paid/bad
but dont be like trump
manic vigil
No health care. Land of the free