True
#assassination
plucky hornet
I tried casualy to push rating but didn't get much further than 2k ... too much hassle
scarlet mantle
sold to one person?
scarlet mantle
that's like 11kk
shrewd oriole
Yeah
scarlet mantle
wtf lol
shrewd oriole
So easy to get buyers when you’re in a streamer guild 
plucky hornet
and how the heck do you buy a gladiator title, everything is so tight in the 2600-2700 bracket , how would a pleb be able not to drag the whole thing down
lethal heart
people who sell pvp shit know their stuff ^^
plucky hornet
so blizz doesn't see ?
shrewd oriole
Not like blizzard cares if you account share
I got some guy to run heroic on my hunter this week and the next
Cuz I was going on vacation
Well yeah
They don’t care about pve account sharing
plucky hornet
well that is one thing but how do you have piece of mind giving your acc to someone else
shrewd oriole
@plucky hornet he’s a friend
plucky hornet
oh that's different then
shrewd oriole
Plus it’s so easy to recover characters lol
lethal heart
that's the nice thing about this game
shrewd oriole
Blizzard is actually really smart about that
lethal heart
i remember back in the days when my acc got stolen
got it back in like ~24 hours max with all the characters and stuff
shrewd oriole
@gusty kestrel people pay that much? Jesus
lethal heart
all the gear and stuff
plucky hornet
Only had my acc stolen once during cata, then I put on an authenticator and it hasn't happened again
he must have some minimum requirement of the chars gear thou right ?
shrewd oriole
Dude they’re playing ed Sheehan at the pool again fuck ne
@plucky hornet you can do it in like 900 ilvl easil
solid nova
^
lone junco
pretty sure the hot young moms love Ed sheman
plucky hornet
some are harder than others. It took me about 150 attempts on outlaw with 904 gear and 2 6 rolls to do it
solid nova
150 OL attempts wut
lone junco
@plucky hornet yeah, outlaw was rough
plucky hornet
and I was pretty practiced before that
lone junco
that was not uncommon close at like 900-910
scarlet mantle
I would fuck up all the hotkeys and bars if I had to play on another account
solid nova
Did OL on my alt at 905 and afked the whole thing
spare cloud
there are many people supporting their life with wow
gilded lark
1-2 hrs of sleep and already at work 
solid nova
Thought it was braindead easy
spare cloud
nothing special nowadays
lone junco
@solid nova I call horse shit, but no vod no proof. so grats
spare cloud
You can make very good money with selling
spare cloud
well its just practice
shrewd oriole
Assa is easier
lone junco
sin was easiest by far
shrewd oriole
But yeah OL is p easy
plucky hornet
well I did the tower right when it first started, before the downsizing from 6 to the never happenening 5 buffs
gilded lark
Outlaw back when it released was fuckin hard.
gilded lark
Remember there have been reworks since then and on avg you have a lot more traits now
scarlet mantle
Outlaw with shit legs was fucking hard
lone junco
pretty sure we did it pre ld.
plucky hornet
even with bis leggies was near impossible if you didn't have good rolls at the right time
gilded lark
Dps was lower and if you didn't get leech roll it was riperoni
plucky hornet
I even used the raptor food for perma 10% haste and movement speed after you kill something and it was still was very frustrating
scarlet mantle
people saying it was easy is horse shit 💯
lone junco
the only people that did it smoothly at like 905 were saber. and he did shoulder bracer. and no way i could make that work. Maybe some people are just better at boulder footwork.
he might have been bracer insic.
plucky hornet
Oh yea if you got slapped by 1 boulder you could recover, but after the second one you start to fall behind pretty quick
gilded lark
Carter is one of the best ol players i know and it took him quite a few tries
lone junco
they should have kept them open for replay like the gold bro
there was a point where mark bte wouldnt kill the caster imps.
keen inlet
Yeah
gilded lark
Hell the only spec/class he played until coven prog was outlaw rogue
plucky hornet
poor guy
lone junco
at that point mark Bte gouge 2nd kick first kill, mark rt 2nd.
keen inlet
Well, outlaw's changed a lot too
lone junco
yeah. not smooth or easy at all.
gilded lark
He likes the spec lol
keen inlet
idk when he did that but if it was during 6buff
gilded lark
He got it like
keen inlet
but it was still v.challenging
gilded lark
Pre LD tho
keen inlet
so
plucky hornet
I got mine on second mage tower at 4 in the morning ... It was very addicting and frustrating at the same time like a damn raid progress on a last boss
keen inlet
Does anybody else active in here have alpha?
warm parcel
903 @35 traits
keen inlet
We need some sin/sub presence on the oforums for feedback
attack em on all fronts
spare cloud
I dont have alpha
shrewd oriole
@keen inlet idk what to say about sin
Sin feels great
I could post some stuff about sub
lone junco
but low stats has no bearing on high end scale right
keen inlet
Discussing the merits/shortcomings of various talents
even "it feels great" is decent feedback at this stage
lone junco
will be interesting to see how it turns out.
shrewd oriole
Fair
keen inlet
I'm not just neg-ing outlaw, I also talk about what works
plucky hornet
I'm kinda exited for the 45 sec vanish but blizz still hasn't shown anything that remotely looks like a workable spec so why waste the time before they've shown something worth comenting about ?
shrewd oriole
I’ll write something up when I back then
Thankfully that only happens in 9 days
Yeah sub feels too unpolished to comment on
lone junco
I played my fire mage all weekend. wowzers what a piece of shit. the instant proc rotation seems more like flame shock rotations than pyroblast
live
shrewd oriole
It’s pretty clear that spec is not even remotely close to finished
Fw playstyle could be dope
sorta like brf sub
plucky hornet
they nerfed that thing about 3 times and I still think they are not done tweeking it
shrewd oriole
Where you had too min max the uptime hardcore
shrewd oriole
regal furnace
Frost is fun? Frostbolt spam is fun?
plucky hornet
I'm all for that , but it has to be rewarding when you get it right. It has to do visibly more damage corresponding to the higher difficulty
shrewd oriole
@plucky hornet that’s just not the way they balance the game tho
strange python
you shouldnt be spamming 25 frostbolt during veins
regal furnace
I main frost. Its fun when you get procs. Its for sadists when nothing procs
shrewd oriole
Harder specs and play styles don’t do more damage cuz they are harder
strange python
if it doesn't proc you're using the wrong talents
regal furnace
^^
shrewd oriole
plucky hornet
DFA altho fun sometimes when you are not paying attention ports you in the worst spots so there has to be some redeiming + dps when the risk of messing up is higher
regal furnace
On frost it is
strange python
my main's a frost mage and it procs constantly
shrewd oriole
lone junco
the only ranged ive played that I honestly liked so far is Affliction.
strange python
yeah okay
shrewd oriole
Trinkets were rppm at least
lone junco
Demo seems ridiculously awful. and destro seems wonky to me.
regal furnace
Affliction? Good old 3 button afk spec ><
regal furnace
Frost is easy
shrewd oriole
Afflock on aoe is harder to play than mage
regal furnace
But shit with no prics
lethal heart
frost with bad rng haHAA
regal furnace
Procs
shrewd oriole
plucky hornet
destro is the least awfull of the 3 specs and if it did a bit more damage would be the go to
lethal heart
isnt frost with no rng
frostbolt till eternity?
or am i missing some crucial part of rotation xd ?
shrewd oriole
Rip parse
strange python
well there's frozen orb that gives you free ice lances
regal furnace
Nah frostbolt x 40 is BiS frost rotation
lone junco
get earbuds you turd
shrewd oriole
I’m inside the pool noobe
strange python
orb gives you lots of ice lances
regal furnace
Orb should give you moar frostbolts
regal furnace
Huntard? Which spec? Mm is lololololol
shrewd oriole
BM is dope too
Both specs are cool
I like hunter
And it looks absolutely amazing on alpha
Mm is the best spec rn on alpha imo
lone junco
is survival still melee on alpha?
regal furnace
Huntard is easy to play. Mm can be played by 2 year olds though
shrewd oriole
Yeah
regal furnace
Yeah
lone junco
easy is good. as long as dps is in the top 3 of raid, and i can still yell at people
regal furnace
Bm to
regal furnace
^^
shrewd oriole
Mm is hard on heavy movement
regal furnace
Doesnt have frostbolt so hunter isnt perfect
shrewd oriole
A lot harder than frost mage on heavy movement shit like argus
regal furnace
^^
shrewd oriole
Thankfully they are fixing that
lone junco
get caught mid aimshot during cone or debuff?
shrewd oriole
By giving us steady shot
Yeah but you can spend focus whilst moving with the new shot
Rapid shot or whatever
So you can plan movement better
regal furnace
Finishing cast > moving out of stupid. Then we shout at healers for us dying. #dpsLyfe
shrewd oriole
Steady shot means you can cast whilst moving, quick shot means you can dump
Makes movement a lot easier
Yeah same
Mm is looking crisp
Bless
It’s gonna be my alt for sure
lone junco
between Raid/M+/expeditions/PVP i think my top few are Lock/Rogue/Hunter.
i hate this part.
I only play one guy for 2 yrs
shrewd oriole
M+ hunter easy pick
lone junco
demo was gross. and I only played it for 15 mins.
lone junco
i played WD on d3 for years.
and the reason pet swarms are good, is that the AI there could adjust faster than i could
zealous dew
i would like alpha
shrewd oriole
The reason I like current BM is the endless spam of beats
So new demo is sick
Idk man
I think monk is gonna follow the same cycle in bfa
It’s gonna be good for the first week of heroic
And the get shafted
That’s poggers
Oh god
It’s Justin Timberlake nowb
shrewd oriole
lone junco
surprised we dont see a Hemo bota fishing chinese log
lethal heart
chinese just do
random shit
like i remember every chinese outlaw was playing clkoaak
cloak*
in tos
or at least lots of them
lone junco
NS DP was around for a long time before we ruined it.
we saw them stealth mut for a while. and people just lolled it off.
lethal heart
LUL
scarlet mantle
loot leg spec apart from loot spec would be great
second time I got a tank lego by mistake on alts
fml
lethal heart
sad part about snapshotting dp was part that even with 'gamebreaking' bug assa was best case on pair with other
lone junco
glad we got the mut balance. really kicked our asses up 15 places.
M+ was nice with the pks tho.
(nice isnt 40M monk aoe tho)
marble hemlock
ns/dp was broken for m+
but i concur, nerfing pk in order to make mut better than pk again was something i strongly disagreed with
but i guess even after buffing mut they realized pk was still better, so they had to nerf it
warm parcel
And the only way to go about it
lone junco
id much rather be top slot single than mid pack of both single and aoe
keen inlet
there were a lot of discussions regarding it
it was the simplest solution
and sometimes there's elegance in simplicity
marble hemlock
this wasnt one of those times
lone junco
mut crit buff pushed the meta out of shoulder. Ill take it.
keen inlet
You're entitled to your opinion, ofc
lone junco
we have like 4 builds all within 3%
marble hemlock
nerfing stuff in order to make players play the way you want them to isnt elegant
keen inlet
Nerfing things that never should've been the way they were isn't inappropriate
It was never intended to work that way
lethal heart
i agree it was broken for m+
-> fok from stealth
into vanish -> fok
probably
wasnt it?
marble hemlock
it was clear from the start that with the way our scaling works, mut would become less and less important, the same way it was clear for weeks from the PTR that way and wane would lead to mf-spam gameplay
keen inlet
I'd say it borderline isn't even a nerf tbh
marble hemlock
blizz didnt care until it was too late for a lot of people. thats not elegant.
keen inlet
just a correction
Too late?
Folks discovered it, willfully changed their relics etc knowing it would likely get reverted
marble hemlock
"likely"
keen inlet
I didn't see anybody crying honestly
marble hemlock
noone knew
marble hemlock
im one of those people, of course i expected it to happen
keen inlet
Blogs, TC-ers, and we were all trumpeting that it was a risk and would likely be changed
lethal heart
yea i knew 2-3 other rogues who were spamming eye of azshara for example to get pk relics
marble hemlock
i also hoped that blizzard would find a solution that wasnt just "buff mut, nerf pk, people will use mut again"
lethal heart
for their argus progression ^^
lone junco
@lethal heart yeah, carry in an env, then stealth fok. massive chain packs could get vanish fok/env/fok/env
lethal heart
these were people from like top 20ish guilds
shrewd oriole
Whilst I agree we knew it was coming
marble hemlock
but that wouldve required more resource allocation to a problem that could just as easily be fixed with a small buff and a fairly big nerf to two abilities/traits, so obviously they went that route
keen inlet
And that was their choice. But again, anybody with common sense could see that it wasn't an intended interaction
shrewd oriole
I think it wasn’t an elegant fix
lone junco
Im pro mut buff.
warm parcel
Again
lone junco
high crit dreams
lethal heart
it's never nice when they nerf certain relics
just like they did with master assassin once
warm parcel
Id like to see you math out a rebalance that doesnt involve pk nerf
lethal heart
they didnt even convey that they're gonna do that as far as i remember
marble hemlock
you know
when you pay me the money
blizzard devs get payed
ill do that rebalance for you
keen inlet
Well I suppose it's free to hang out here and whine about dead horses 😉
warm parcel
Fun to just blame blizz for swapping relics instead of using common sense huh
keen inlet
H 
R S E
💀
shrewd oriole
🤦
marble hemlock
i blame blizzard for thinking it would be acceptable to nerf our aoe capabilities because they couldnt foresee mut being overtaken by pk
and not being able to come up with an actually elegant solution to that problem
dire spoke
marble hemlock
this is indeed a dead horse
i just didnt like dons assertion of "theres elegance in simplicity" because to me that whole ordeal was anything but elegant
marble hemlock
i mean theyve set themselves up for failure with something like s2m in my opinion
a mechanic like that is either not strong enough to be used at all, or good players can use it to its fullest extent and perform significantly better than people who cant
neither of those options is desirable for blizzard
lethal heart
either underwhelming or broken
keen inlet
But these things were experiments
marble hemlock
you know, id wholeheartedly agree with that
lethal heart
s2m serves it's purpose though
marble hemlock
but heres the problem
lethal heart
if you play lfr and use it noone can even res you then 👌
keen inlet
their patch cycle is too fast, I think, for their limited staffing to manage experiments in the full time they deserve
and the rogue dev changed midway through Legion, so bear that in mind
shrewd oriole
I don’t think a mechanic being broken for good players is a bad thing
marble hemlock
when you have an 8-month alpha/beta cycle to experiment on that stuff, people give you feedback and everything you would need to re-evaluate your position on that experiment but you simply dont care and let it go live like you initially designed it
and then rebalance it once its live
shrewd oriole
But obviously blizzard doesn’t like skill to create such a disparity in results
marble hemlock
i kinda lose all my sympathy
keen inlet
I used to feel that way but tbh change just takes a lot time
And like it or not it's a surprisingly small crew
I think if you sat in a dev seat you'd understand
shrewd oriole
Ion 🤢
marble hemlock
seems to me that changes for blizzard doesnt take a lot of time, sometimes it just takes a lot of public outcry, and where they apply either of those reasons to actually change stuff has gotten more and more arbitrary
lethal heart
q&a with ion and people asking about rp stuff is full PepeHands
shrewd oriole
marble hemlock
well
shrewd oriole
Or pvp questions
marble hemlock
atleast we got some q&a with an actual dev, and not some random PR person
shrewd oriole
Obv
keen inlet
p.sure Lore selects the questions, not Ion, although they might discuss it prior
shrewd oriole
Feels bad man, I liked en s2m
lethal heart
because he sometimes tries to give his/devs pov on certain things
shrewd oriole
I wish we had more stuff that was hard to play but extremely rewarding
keen inlet
s2m should def stay for pvp at least
lethal heart
but then they come up with super terrible answers like nlc vs reforging
marble hemlock
s2m has its place in the game when other classes have similar mechanics that reward playerskill as much as s2m did
shrewd oriole
Sure
marble hemlock
but they dont, so it was the odd-one out and got hammered
marble hemlock
in a way, i think its more about blizzard wanting "casual" people to not be as far behind as the "elite"
like they used to in previous expansions
shrewd oriole
Yeah
Agreed
I don’t think it’s a problem if baddies are behind but blizzard does so
marble hemlock
since that sort of thing leads to rampant elitism, which is a toxic behaviour, and that is something blizzard is desperatly trying to get rid off in all their games
shrewd oriole
Idd
lone junco
like the gcd thing
calm grail
It's too bad that gap is it bigger, how else will the insecure basement dwellers feel validated. Make the gap between the average and the elite bigger
lone junco
avg player base prob doesnt use 4skill macros
shrewd oriole
@marble hemlock it’s not just toxicity
lone junco
avg player base pay for the servers. and buy the gold with money.
shrewd oriole
It’s also players feel bad if they are getting crushed
lone junco
elite dont mean much
lethal heart
i think they dont want average players feeling alienated?
marble hemlock
yeah well
lethal heart
if that even is a word
calm grail
Obviously, but I think they want less people like Tom to exist.
lethal heart
they dont even succeed at doing that what they do is just make it a little bit harder for exceptional players to stand out
marble hemlock
i think wed all like that a little bit
keen inlet
@marble hemlock
Can you sit there with a straight face and tell me that baddies were far behind elite in Vanilla, BC, or even Wrath?
Because I was there, and I 100% disagree.
marble hemlock
as a melee? yes
keen inlet
The game has become more separated, not less.
marble hemlock
people who didnt know about glancing blows and weapon skill as a melee were already extremely far behind
unless they randomly equipped pieces with weaponskill without knowing why they were so good
warm parcel
people didnt know which way to face back then
calm grail
I think the player base has a hole was far less knowledgeable back then
lone junco
@keen inlet rip taking 26 days /played to get to 60
keen inlet
lol
calm grail
As a whole*
lone junco
26 x 24. you have got to be kidding me.
keen inlet
Taking BC as an example
lone junco
priest was a fucking nightmare
warm parcel
A warrior that knew the script that let you charge in combat was far superior to a noob warrior
Thats not even remotely something that could happen nowadays
marble hemlock
part of that is because the over-all playerbase has gotten more knowledgeable
keen inlet
People were all funneled into the same content. They had to learn very quickly (and they were usually taught, because ppl were server-locked and options limited) how to play, why to play, etc
marble hemlock
another part is that a lot of mechanics that you as a player could play around, got normalized and are no longer in your control
i.e. rppm trinkets taking the place of ICD ones
removal of hit/expertise/weaponskill
keen inlet
There are a lot of complex, separate, but inter-related reasons why the skillgap matters more now, and it's not just because "baddies are bad and elites are good"
calm grail
Okay, removal of hit and expertise was great
shrewd oriole
It’s pretty obvious blizzard has been trying to close the gap between the casual and the elite player
calm grail
I didn't like having to max out a boring stat just to hit my target.
shrewd oriole
I don’t think anyone can argue against that Jose lol
marble hemlock
im not sure i agree with "skill matters more now"
keen inlet
I think the one exception there is TF
marble hemlock
not in a mechanical sense that is solely related to class-mechanics
shrewd oriole
Skill matters less now
keen inlet
that absolutely "closes the gap" except it doesn't, because gear doesn't teach play
shrewd oriole
Class mechanics way
marble hemlock
in a raid environment, with encounter-design and movement etc. included? definitely, the game has gotten harder
shrewd oriole
Wise*
shrewd oriole
Yeah
It’s confusing
@calm grail you should meet an actual elitist person
Like nelbur
Who dismissed everything noobe says
marble hemlock
but from a class-mechanic point of view, its a lot easier to play your class and get like a 90% performance now, than it used to be
shrewd oriole
calm grail
He's not even defensive, he just comes off as socially awkward and unrelatable and not even worth talking to.
Offensive*
marble hemlock
starting from gearing your character, to utilizing procs/buffs, pooling resources etc.
almost all of that is gone
keen inlet
The game no longer forces the same raiding path.
In BC, everyone had to do dungeons to stand up to Kara. Everybody had to farm kara (pretty much forever) for badges, and gear, which could actually carry them up through BT
marble hemlock
and in those few places where it still exists, it doesnt matter as much as it used to
shrewd oriole
I think they’ve been transferring difficulty from class to encounters
For years now
marble hemlock
yeah
shrewd oriole
Which is a good thing
keen inlet
I think gear matters way too much, now, and the ilvl bloat each tier is absurd
marble hemlock
oh, definitely
calm grail
You have to remember from a business point of view it also makes sense.
lethal heart
marble hemlock
but you dont have to worry about hitting caps anymore
shrewd oriole
I like that the hard part aew the encounters rather than what buttons to press
It’s way more interesting to have easy classes but interesting encounters like argus
marble hemlock
gearing yourself, trying to hit specific soft or hardcaps for haste, expertise, weaponskill, hit? that was part of the equation
it no longer is
keen inlet
How I'd do it:
5ilvls between normal, heroic, and mythic levels.
WF: tertiary proc
TF: gemslot proc and +2ilvls
shrewd oriole
Than hard specs and shit like varimathras
daring gazelle
Can I request that a mod create an off topic channel?
shrewd oriole
keen inlet
that channel is general.
calm grail
Did you have a question for any rogues here?
shrewd oriole
This isn’t off topic
keen inlet
If you have a sin question, feel free to ask it
shrewd oriole
This is wow y’all
marble hemlock
i still remember how great it felt to get shard of contempt back then for those 2% more hit
shrewd oriole
I also remember how bad it felt to train weapon skill
When you got a new weapon you hadn’t used in a while
keen inlet
Sure, but don't forget how bad it felt every time you didn't get it
marble hemlock
you know what? i think this problem is way worse now
but that leads to another topic that is more gear/tf related
shrewd oriole
I mean
Gearing is terrible in legion
I hate that I can get a piece of 960 loot and not be excited about it
calm grail
I don't think that one tier of gear should be able to surpass the next tier.
shrewd oriole
🤷
calm grail
Easy fix.
keen inlet
lol
marble hemlock
i still think that classes were way harder to play at the top-level in previous expacs, and blizzard has rather hamfistedly tried to remove most of the mechanics that were the reason for that
keen inlet
I guess he wanted to ask about the silver trade/market
shrewd oriole
@calm grail they’re doing that in bfa
calm grail
Have a 965 heroic cloak...
shrewd oriole
Exactly
calm grail
I had to wait until everybody got their Mythic one so I can finish my transmog 😟
Could*
keen inlet
@marble hemlock Counter: Those were all insidiously difficult to tune/balance and took a lot of development resources, and frequently (to my recollection) broke, resulting in wide-swing nerfs and buffs
shrewd oriole
It sucks that I’ll never be bis
marble hemlock
depends on what level blizzard is trying to balance around
shrewd oriole
It also sucks that I can do the entire instance and not get a single upgrade cuz no tf
keen inlet
Well we as players demand pretty tight balance
marble hemlock
or rather, used to, because obviously those priorities have shifted over the years
well, i dont
keen inlet
we even fuss (perhaps rightfully so) at a 10% dps gap
calm grail
Did anybody else really like the very obvious telegraphed ground effects in this raid?
shrewd oriole
Being at the point where only tf gear is an upgrade is actually so demotivating
calm grail
It did feel like it was a well-designed.
shrewd oriole
I don’t think Antorus is well designed
marble hemlock
i enjoyed having more utility based classes like boomy that gave 3% hit for the entire raid with faerie fire
i was always sad when ours wasnt in the raid
shrewd oriole
They absolutely dropped the ball on coven and vari
They’re way too easy for how late they are
keen inlet
That just made them borderline required though, Selia
calm grail
I feel like you could do almost all of the fights without DBM or anything
keen inlet
¯_(ツ)_/¯
calm grail
I'm just saying that they made everything obvious
marble hemlock
not really, because you didnt "require" 24% hit
keen inlet
and then I used to carry pieces so I could make up the deficit
some classes needed it, missing casts was huge
marble hemlock
yeah
keen inlet
etc
marble hemlock
see
keen inlet
That wasn't fun
marble hemlock
i think thats kind of nice
keen inlet
that was tedious
shrewd oriole
Gotta agree with Jose here
calm grail
Hit/Expertise added a superficial layer of complexity that added nothing to gameplay.
shrewd oriole
Playing inventory Tetris depending on comp is boring as shit
strange python
imagine you could reforge the gear rn LUL
calm grail
It would be dumb.
marble hemlock
whats the difference to switching gearsets based on what legendaries youre wearing which may shift your stat-priority?
keen inlet
The removal of reforging, and then the changes that would follow, were pretty silly
NLC should never have existed when reforging was removed
marble hemlock
anyway, this is obviously mostly my opinion that may be the odd one out
keen inlet
due to "not being fun/complex/blahblahblah"
shrewd oriole
Some people like “clunky” mechanics seli
lethal heart
during qa
keen inlet
Reforging removed some of the sting of getting bad pieces
lethal heart
when they were answering reforging vs nlc stuff 😄
keen inlet
og runescape's pretty big tbh
shrewd oriole
Exactly
keen inlet
to my perplexity
shrewd oriole
Vanilla wow is gonna be decently big as well
calm grail
I don't know if this will be possible, but they need to make it so secondary stats take the back seat to primary stats in a big way
marble hemlock
but i think wanting tight balance automatically leads to less diverse class-design because in order for blizzard to balance dozens of specs and builds tightly like people want, they cannot have overtly complex class mechanics
shrewd oriole
Some people def like clunky unfriendly mechanics
keen inlet
Tom, call me a doubter, but I think Classic will surge intiially and then tank
keen inlet
there will be a small dedicated group that plays it but I don't think it'll be worth the investment
calm grail
I like simulating gear as much as the next person, but it would be nice if an ilvl upgrade was an upgrade.
keen inlet
¯_(ツ)_/¯
near rune
egg
shrewd oriole
I think it’s gonna be like of runescape
Huge surge, loyal player base
I think the loyal fan base that plays it is gonna be big
keen inlet
I think Blizz is silly for indulging it. They should just let the private servers continue.
shrewd oriole
@calm grail it is for most specs
marble hemlock
you kind of want to be in control of your own IP/franchise though
shrewd oriole
A lot of specs don’t have “haste” like we do, they have 4 decent ish stats
keen inlet
I'm wondering which "classic" they'll roll out
gonna be funny when people get original talent trees and realize that 60% of specs are unplayable
calm grail
The people who remember classic being better than the current game, are just remembering the sense of community from a lack of group finder, nothing else, the game definitely wasn't better.
marble hemlock
at the end of the day i just want my mop/wod combat gameplay back
or dragonsoul sub
shrewd oriole
Wod
I said it once and I’ll say it again
Raiding wise wod was one of the best expansions
marble hemlock
i just really enjoyed mop combat
shrewd oriole
I don’t engage in any other aspect tho Jose
shrewd oriole
So it’s easy for me to rank wod as one of the better expansions
marble hemlock
playing around bandits guile, delaying buffs/cds to line up with ICD trinkets/weapon enchants
shrewd oriole
To me wod was better than legion
calm grail
I thought Imperator was a quality pre raid boss.
marble hemlock
that was the most fun i had playing my class
calm grail
Pre tier*
shrewd oriole
Easily
shrewd oriole
Imperator on M was one of the best fights ever
calm grail
Even on heroic I remember thinking he was appropriately difficult.
shrewd oriole
Black hand is up there
calm grail
The first time I hit him
shrewd oriole
Dude
keen inlet
It's so unfortunate that so much of Highmaul was meme
marble hemlock
lets be real here, while mop/wod get a lot of shit for how they worked out for the majority of players, those two expansions did have some of the best encounter design this game has ever seen
marble hemlock
even the first tier of mop had some incredibly memorable bossfights
shrewd oriole
Legion was very dissapointed compared to mop and wod
calm grail
I really enjoyed Throne of Thunder also.
shrewd oriole
Disappointing*
marble hemlock
sha wasnt the best because it was goddamn 15minutes with 8 of them being a boring snoozefest
keen inlet
if WoD hadn't been the lore equivalent of a galaxy colliding with another galaxy at the edge of a black hole, I'd be a lot more forgiving. but even going back to the zones to fly over them I'm reminded of how ridiculous Savage+Cartoony is thematically
strange python
brf was 1 lit raid tier
marble hemlock
but spirit kings, will, empress, garalon, even the council in terrace all were pretty damn nice
strange python
only the council ish boss was boring imo
stark heart
BRF is 
calm grail
Zul'Aman in BC was probably my first favorite memory of raiding.
stark heart
Thogar is the best fight Blizz produced imo
shrewd oriole
Yep
keen inlet
Thogar's def up there imo
marble hemlock
i want more mechanics like the will of the emperor dance for melee/tanks :x
shrewd oriole
Blackhand is great too
stark heart
Imperator reminds me of maidens
stark heart
you have to endure 2 boring phases when almost nothing is happening for like 6-9 minutes
and then fight actually starts
marble hemlock
sha of fear LUL
shrewd oriole
I don’t mind difficulty ramp up personally
stark heart
sure
shrewd oriole
But maybe that’s me
marble hemlock
sha p1
strange python
i mean cho gall phase wasnt that hard imo, we had more problems getting to that point
marble hemlock
hyperyiker
keen inlet
would've liked to see it split into 2 separate fights
stark heart
but both fights had tooooo long ramp up
strange python
than actually killing cho gall phase 😄
keen inlet
Fight him before throne room, he gets spooked, runs back to throne room for stone empowerment etc
shrewd oriole
Furnace was hard, harder and hardest
keen inlet
make for shorter wipes that way 
keen inlet
can you imagine if spine and madness were one fight
shrewd oriole
Furnace was a dope boss
stark heart
I had enough of spine thanks
keen inlet
spine might be my least favorite fight in wow
stark heart
Unltraxxion
keen inlet
just tedious
shrewd oriole
I agree
stark heart
holy pala with blue buff
marble hemlock
while i think the last phase of a fight should be the hardest one, its just annoying when the first few phases are riddled with rng or are just snoozefests where people cant really die unless they fall asleep
shrewd oriole
Tied with trial of the crusader
stark heart
hardest gameplay
keen inlet
lol
stark heart
complexity through the roof
calm grail
Looking back, I think I fucking hated that raid.
keen inlet
Ultraxxion I always used to voicechat his speech with an intention homestar runner-y voice
stark heart
(I played holy pala back then so I know what I am talking about)
marble hemlock
looking back i think i didnt even mind the 2min monologues from kaelthas between all his phases
calm grail
I mostly just salty because my GM's girlfriend got her daggers before me.
keen inlet
Vashj
calm grail
😟
marble hemlock
because the fight just "felt" fun
marble hemlock
least favourite was KT trash
astral sundial
regarding alacrity - what would be the best legendary to go with it? My first thought was insignia/boots (like in my current setup with EP/TB), due to the extra energy regan, but then again insignia might lose value without TB. I know some ppl would be very eager to tell me "just sim it", but I think it is easier to make a new set of gear work by simming the correct items instead of randomly trying things.
marble hemlock
KT trash worst boss
calm grail
Let's be real, karazhan when it first came out definitely had to certain magic to it. I'm not talking about complexity, I'm talking about the atmosphere.
keen inlet
Somebody guide Ran to the light pls
calm grail
Was a real fun raid
stark heart
atmosphere...
stark heart
best raid I saw in this regard was BWD
Nef actually participating in every fight
twisting encounter
and giving voice lines
proper immersion imo
marble hemlock
karazhan was nice because it felt really huge which is something a lot of people didnt get to encounter during classic with aq40/naxx being kind of elite-only raids back then
shrewd oriole
Rip flowi
calm grail
@olive crow teach this gentlemen about alacrity
calm grail
Reeeeeee
shrewd oriole
Flowi left
stark heart
yep
calm grail
He's not totally wrong
keen inlet
If you can't be adult enough to follow baseline dumb rules
marble hemlock
and was playing bracer/boots
shrewd oriole
Nice double negative
calm grail
Oh I agree, there is no reason to go out of your way to offend people, I was agreeing with the Nazi part.
shrewd oriole
astral sundial
@marble hemlock can you guide me how to find such logs?
shrewd oriole
I agree with you Jose
marble hemlock
someone wants to talk about our lord and saviour alacrity
shrewd oriole
Just sucks that the community is slowly vanishing
heavy plover
marble hemlock
and since you got the #1 alacrity M vari log i thought you may want to enlighten this novice
shrewd oriole
keen inlet
If you think that's "nazi" you're every bit as snowflake as the ppl you'd probably accuse of having soft fee-fees
to quote myself
EL SHRUGGERINO
shrewd oriole
@gusty kestrel what’s your vari log
calm grail
I wasn't referring to the mods, I was referring to some of the awful stuff I've heard when this place isnt moderated
I actually like all the mods here, I was referring to be
keen inlet
lol
calm grail
The users*
keen inlet
the internet is a wretched hive of scum and villany
calm grail
The pins are the gold mine
keen inlet
@stark heart Fox I will skewer you and cook you with apples for a +5 heart steak and fruit flambe
astral sundial
@gusty kestrel any tips on what legendary setup/stats to aim for it?
calm grail
This is what happens though when nothing changes for a few months, we become degenerate because there's nothing to talk about
stark heart
shrewd oriole
2.4
keen inlet
@stark heart been playing breath of the wild a lot until next alpha push
calm grail
Wait until beta is in full swing in the game is about to come out, this place is going to be packed with "good" questions.
stark heart
I wanna try new outlaw but ma mage needs heroic
calm grail
It will be fun
stark heart
what do I do tonight?
keen inlet
I kill foxes and say "I wonder if that was Lorentz"
stark heart
alpha or live?
stark heart
@keen inlet we can't be friends anymore
stark heart
click ignore on Jose's profile
quick ice
@stark heart eenie meenie minie moe?
shrewd oriole
🙆
stark heart
We were friends?
shrewd oriole
Botw is great
stark heart
okay one eyed
shrewd oriole
What part you on hose
keen inlet
idk what it is but like
lone junco
is ignore > block?
keen inlet
taking all the objectives etc off the map etc
lone junco
cause the block spam is annoying 👺
stark heart
@quick ice ?
shrewd oriole
Yeah
quick ice
How to choose
keen inlet
Tom I haven't even got to a divine beast yet--I did the shieka upgrade in town and I've just been exploring/side-questing since
stark heart
I play PoE now mostly it's good
marble hemlock
and here i was thinking that #1 was well deserved
shrewd oriole
I dislike the weapon durability but that’s about it
marble hemlock
but its literally 1/1
shrewd oriole
@stark heart the new pb league is so trash
keen inlet
I've probably got 20+ hours into the game and I haven't done even 1/6th of the main story
stark heart
@quick ice thanks
quick ice
alternately go for the blizz approach and throw darts at it @stark heart
shrewd oriole
@keen inlet the main story is lame
keen inlet
I also keep trying to mount a bear tame a bear as mount
lone junco
@marble hemlock that EP/Alac is pretty stronk. surprised its not boots insig tbh.
shrewd oriole
The dlcs gave me some headaches
marble hemlock
theres very few logs on any bosses with alac though
two for aggramar
one for garothi
astral sundial
@lone junco this is what I was thinking aswell but maybe the lose of TB is too much for insignia? :X
quick ice
Private log alacrity folks obviously
shrewd oriole
@keen inlet legit one of the dlcs was like 10 bucks and gave me like 15-30 hours of game play
quick ice
Is why you don't see them though
keen inlet
I got a ton to do before getting into any of that lol
like, you know, actual plot stuff to get more power and hearts
keen inlet
idk I'm having fun tho
keen inlet
@marble hemlock that happens because they see top parsers do it
shrewd oriole
Enjoy it
lost horizon
That reminds me of morrowind
marble hemlock
😃
quick ice
Wow player base is lemmings
marble hemlock
but yeah @lone junco
lone junco
@marble hemlock i cant seem to find the filters.
lost horizon
I never got past the second main quest in that damn game
marble hemlock
can just filter with the magnifying glass to the top right when checking out rankings
lone junco
magnify thx
marble hemlock
can choose logs that have certain specs present, or spells used
marble hemlock
just type in the ability/talent you want to see, hit enter and filter the ranks
warm parcel
Hows loss of tb anything to do with insignia
keen inlet
@lost horizon The main quest was kinda lame honestly
The whole disappearance of Dwarves substory/quest was way more interesting than ZOMG VAMPIRES
lost horizon
I just remember bailing the fuck out as soon as I was supposed to meet the guy in the first big city
keen inlet
skyrim too, I probably spent a fair percentage of my time delving dwemer ruins
lost horizon
Found some enchanted dagger with levitation
lost horizon
Flew around and tried to kill sky-jellyfish and got destroyed... Lost the save... Couldn't find the levitation dagger again
vestal wren
morrwind where you could kill a flying mob with your fists
marble hemlock
daggerfall best TES game
lost horizon
Morrowind was the earliest one I played
Was pretty sad to see the abilities get pruned in oblivion then again for Skyrim
Or skills rather*
marble hemlock
never liked the "jack of all trades" approach the tes games have been taking
at least the stealth archer meme is top-tier
astral sundial
@warm parcel cuz TB hits fairly hard and gains a nice bonus with insignia as a generator. but it is just me guessing - trying to figure out why insignia isn't as good with it
marble hemlock
looking at the few alac logs available, it seems like boots/bracer are the way to go, running EP instead of MP
lone junco
EP is very very good with crit.
marble hemlock
makes sense, optimizing EP/VP uptime and funneling the energy from VP Into more vendettas
lone junco
and the alac dp rate pushes a few more KB per fight
marble hemlock
this time during a content fights are getting shorter and shorter, which makes a talent like alacrity that needs to ramp up be worse by comparison
lost horizon
I miss acrobatics
warm parcel
I mean if you want to ask dps question:
The answer is gonna be sim as you said.
That said boots are quite likely favored due to alac.
And mantle less due to no modifiers
So then crit becomes more valuable
Which shifts ep
Which again can cause wrists to simm less than insignia
astral sundial
@marble hemlock I am not sure that's correct...just a matter of how many TB you can fit in. alacrity might be better in every single fight if it lasts 1 min 19 seconds
marble hemlock
HERETIC
but yeah, all jokes aside, alacrity isnt really a viable option
if you see good logs with it, its because those people are having some fun and could perform even better with the regular build
marble hemlock
like
i could probably put out some decent alac logs
think i sim for like 2.25m with alac/ep
but my poison build sim is just quite a bit better
and the same goes for pretty much everyone else, since there is no trinket or mechanic that gets significantly better with alacrity
median oyster
If iI have dreadlords deceit, is it worth adding to the rotation at a certain number of stack on single target?
vapid moth
On fucking April first
warm parcel
when you cap the stacks
vapid moth
Is that the cape tokken?
keen inlet
It's snowing here rn
astral sundial
I am sure that is correct for plyers with nicely itemized gear - but with my current gear insignia/boots with EP/TB is just my best setup, so I am trying to find some more original ways to squeeze more out of it
keen inlet
I give up with this spring
median oyster
Yea cape, so at 30 stacks. Cheers
vapid moth
Facts. I'm done with the fucking snow
keen inlet
Same
marble hemlock
bracer/boots might give you a smol increase instead of insignia, but i cant think of anything that would suddenly make alac pop even harder
vapid moth
No. You don't use the cape for single target when playing assassination. Or ever really
median oyster
oh ok, literally the best lego I have atm. still waiting on mantle/bracers
marble hemlock
certain trinkets gain a bit more value with more haste
vapid moth
If it's your only leggo then yeah go ahead and use it
lethal heart
think i have got 975 aggramar trinket
astral sundial
@marble hemlock by certain trinkets you mean the one BiS trinket? 😛 - also bracer sims as terrible dps loss for me
celest salmon
how much mastery and crit is decent for raiding atm?
lone junco
score
shrewd oriole
I love Brazil
vapid moth
I'd use it slightly before 30 though depending on the situation so I don't overcap.
marble hemlock
yeah, thats pretty much the problem
celest salmon
so around 30 is ok?
marble hemlock
while golganneths benefits from alacrity more than TB, its still used in TB builds
marble hemlock
so you cant really gain anything compared to non-alac builds by gearing for it specifically
stark heart
no haste will actually help it lol
lone junco
@celest salmon early goals are 4p21 from LFR. then work on mastery
marble hemlock
which is why youll not be able to overtake an optimized non-alac build
as far optimizing alac goes, the priorities really are the same, except for slightly altered stat-weights
plain thistle
wtf tom
celest salmon
I got like 28% crit and 192% mastery
lone junco
once you have the high >75% mut crit, ep becomes the scale. once you drop mp poison bomb is weaker.
shrewd oriole
@plain thistle dude with enough money you can buy anything in Brazil
lone junco
its nice to see so many builds within 5%
shrewd oriole
Lemme take a pic 1 sec
plain thistle
well, isnt that true for the rest of the world? or almost the rest of the world at least
astral sundial
@lone junco it really is - now need to hope it sticks for BfA...
shrewd oriole
That’s like 1/4th of the beach
plain thistle
😂
shrewd oriole
@echo estuary I’ve been to Porto 
plain thistle
not the best time to be in rio de janeiro right now 😦
echo estuary
why is it the gangs? xd
plain thistle
no, military intervention going on since the start of this year
echo estuary
citade de deus
chrome spoke
err so, swapped to assassination loot spec yesterday and had 2 leggos already for outlaw... now have mantle & bracers lol
chrome spoke
😛
arctic venture
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
scarlet mantle
@shrewd oriole where is this beach?
keen inlet
Posted in general but
I'll post here too
"no class specific questions"
in next Q&A
dense blaze
That just ain't right
lone junco
@keen inlet our guys have done a few of the Exhibitions, if they are to remain interesting, they need affixes, or something.
keen inlet
Expeditions?
I've tried them with Notter and Lorentz. I think they're gonna get old really fast
they thought they were fun tho
¯_(ツ)_/¯
lone junco
i still question why 3v3, and not 5v5. else it will be really awkward for non hybrid classes
lone junco
yeah.
if the rewards are anything worth doing, it needs to scale in difficulty, not just be a race.
cause 3x hunter with a pet tank will be a breeze
vapid moth
What are you talking about
lone junco
watch a vid on the Expeditions. they are interesting for sure. but classes with movement and self sustain will be gods.
gaunt moat
but i'm an idiot, i forgot to apply poison when we did them XD
keen inlet
that said after the math is crunched and you know what's the best gain/second on azerite
3 rogue might be op
able to skip a ton
of garbage
also we tried it on normal before heroic and mythic were released
I'm reading feedback and the tuning seems off--ppl saying heroic and mythic were easier than normal
gaunt moat
well islands are supposed to be "random"
so dunno if that's gonna be a thing
keen inlet
it will be
it'll be a priority
"if this procs always do it"
"never bother with this"
etc
vapid moth
My name plates already scale with distance :/
lone junco