#assassination
dire spoke
keen inlet
I applied to 15 heroic antorus pugs tonight
No invite
Rogue is ded lads
vapid moth
At least not since the last time I checked
gilded lark
ban
manic vigil
the po po
keen inlet
Sometimes i do it rather than moderating
Preferential treatment
dire spoke
I fuck the rules, but respect them afterwards and delete
keen inlet
And then that person ironically gets mad about it
manic vigil
you're a friggin saint Don ❤
spare cloud
I want fries right now
keen inlet
Rip me
onyx falcon
Jose do you M raid?
onyx falcon
10/10 Jose like me
keen inlet
But no
vapid moth
End the unjustness!
onyx falcon
11/11 H 0/11 M 😃
gilded lark
can you mute xae already
manic vigil
xae
keen inlet
Man my car door window finally failed today
manic vigil
go to sleep
gilded lark
literally no positive additions to chat
onyx falcon
electrical?
keen inlet
Took me 3 hours to get it shut.
I will never open it again
No mechanical.
Took the door apart
spare cloud
mute broad and xae to give equal treatment
vapid moth
Get a new car
gilded lark
?
vapid moth
Mute toph for his passive aggressiveness
gilded lark
for once i dont deserve the mute
spare cloud
🤷
keen inlet
02 vw passat
keen inlet
Thing is a legacy
vapid moth
Window broken? Throw the whole car out.
spare cloud
How exactly am I passive aggressive
manic vigil
broadsides is a good canadian boi lately
onyx falcon
i would think manual windwos would be simple to fix though, never opened one up
only electrical ones
gilded lark
power windows on my 1990 blazer still work 
keen inlet
Oh they're power windows
vapid moth
The thing with passive aggressiveness is. It's always easy to defend
keen inlet
Just mechanical failure
onyx falcon
AH mk
spare cloud
I am not passive aggressive
manic vigil
buy a German car Don, easy
vapid moth
Uh huh
gilded lark
like that
spare cloud
I just repeat what you say yourself
manic vigil
it's just as shit as every other car
gilded lark
yeah his car is german
manic vigil
no I didnt
gilded lark
🤔
manic vigil
spare cloud
its the typical i dont know what to say I'm going to start trolling response
every single time
manic vigil
VW
keen inlet
- Had it since 04
manic vigil
spare cloud
it gets old after 200 times
vapid moth
What
keen inlet
Yo
vapid moth
I have 2 people coming at me
onyx falcon
sht thats pretty good Jose o.o
vapid moth
Shits not easy
keen inlet
Can y'all take your toxicity debate to general
onyx falcon
hows insurance on that thing though, feel like it could go either way
vapid moth
Toxic blade is a part of assa
keen inlet
We're talking about my stupid car in here
spare cloud
I'm not really debating
keen inlet
Because i should assassinate it
spare cloud
I dont have a car
manic vigil
buy a tesla Don. Be THAT edgy!
gilded lark
take it to general don
keen inlet
Wrong
vapid moth
Lmao
keen inlet
Discount nigel thornberry wanbfhncrjnvffji
manic vigil
vapid moth
Meh
manic vigil
bees?!
vapid moth
Wasps though
vapid moth
Wasps are a fuckin manace
vapid moth
Aye broad. I might be sucking your dick but I am most certainly not your bitch
gilded lark
you're both.
keen inlet
Fdyij have a good weekend and I'll let you know if I can help you with that change and then you guys can come over and play with my wife and I are interested in other perspectives
vapid moth
No
vapid moth
Pause tf
spare cloud
What is Fdyij short for?
keen inlet
I'm typing this out using suggested words
gilded lark
i assume he was just hitting the middle button on his phone
yup
and his phone thinks he's a beta male
manic vigil
oh I love doing that as well
gilded lark
manic vigil
it's hilarious
spare cloud
Why is your first suggested word Fdyij?
vapid moth
Je suis en train de faire un petit mail pour vous dire que je ne sais pas
manic vigil
I was scared you had a stroke or something for a moment tho
keen inlet
I'm going to try to make it in tomorrow after I get off on the server
vapid moth
I've never used that phrase :/
keen inlet
Thanks again for your help with my wife
manic vigil
you're welcome
gilded lark
wow you really are a cuck
spare cloud
manic vigil
vapid moth
You'll be feeling another good feeling if you keep that up
gilded lark
stop it jailbait
spare cloud
I'll make you feel very good tonight
keen inlet
But I don't want to be a bother
spare cloud
bby
manic vigil
yeah that just killed the mood, this time I felt it very clearly
vapid moth
I'm not jailbait in my country 😉
manic vigil
go to sleep xae
vapid moth
17 is legal in NY
keen inlet
I'm not going to try to go to bed now so I'm not going to try to go to bed now so I'm not going to try to go to bed now
gilded lark
no wonder your grades are shit
spare cloud
so what?
vapid moth
Country dictates that stays make the laws regarding that stuff
So I'm technically correct
gilded lark
go do your homework
manic vigil
yeah, all good Don
keen inlet
If you want to come
spare cloud
come join you in bed?
manic vigil
keen inlet
I am not able to see their faces
spare cloud
no wonder
manic vigil
stop it
spare cloud
its fuckin dark outside
manic vigil
well we don't have to fear the singularity just yet - on the bright side
keen inlet
The dark ones will come for us all and ice cream
spare cloud
always look at
manic vigil
kek
manic vigil
ice cream tho 
spare cloud
Ice cream cake?
keen inlet
keen inlet
spare cloud
u wot mon?
keen inlet
keen inlet
spare cloud
manic vigil
Wtf is happening
I'm a little scared tbh
this feels like a glitch in the matrix or something
keen inlet
manic vigil
fucking 6am - where did the time go?!
I was just gonna take a quick look at discord
and here we are
gilded lark
thats how it gets you
frozen pecan
It's Friday bois
spare cloud
Ahhhhh
gilded lark
🤔
vernal adder
upgraded to nitro 
dire spoke
@gusty kestrel I'm your biggest fan already. Please accept my presence in your life as a closer mate and be up for my utterly half-brained questions in upcoming raid-tiers as I always look up to you
plain thistle
🤔
dire spoke
he's ignoring me, so famous already
fervent beacon
Now you're the next noname
dire spoke
🤔 right right
manic vigil
wow I can feel the love
vernal adder
nice I got alpha
manic vigil
manic vigil
WAS JUNGE
dire spoke
manic vigil
Omg
vernal adder
just germans here 
manic vigil
frozen pecan
deutsche 🤢
supple hearth
Wer hier muss einen Hammer ins Gesicht bekommen
supple hearth
how bad is that german btw on a scale of 1-10
steep obsidian
he uses scourgewing because the whole point of his build is to kill bosses and not adds mebbe?
fervent beacon
my life when I use flying serpent kick off the agg platform in normal
So that's DfA into Foebreaker and now this.
steep obsidian
l2 max range dfa
or play sin :\
coz dfa sux
good point eh
i dunno how long adds are living in those pulls
but even if they arent crit prolly still better
:feelycraft:
fervent beacon
i only use SSW if im running bleed and its strictly ST
steep obsidian
yeh
fervent beacon
and even then, I feel fanged is just better overall dues to uptime on the crit/agi
steep obsidian
i dunno how hard it is to cheese the proc to make sure it only hit boss so you get the extra hit
probably not poss
paper elbow
quick question lads, i just got bracers. Do i just pre much run bracers and shoulders for m+ or is cloak still a better option for trash?
tyvm @gusty kestrel
zealous dew
cloak is good if you use it wisely as slagg pointed out a week ago or so
1st pull you have 30 stacks, then during vanish you swap sets to bracers
thorn moth
what are some of the lil tricks for sin? like 2evenom durink pb and shit like that
zealous dew
pray 😃
stark heart
trick - don't call it "sin"
uneven lantern
just got soul and insignia of ravenholdt legendaries, they any good? they're not mentioned in the ravenholdt guide
uneven lantern
got 30ish crit
i got greenskin also, getting insignia makes me wanna go outlaw haha
stark heart
Outlaw 
gilded lark
zealous dew
outlaw is way more fun than sin
dire spoke
uneven lantern
i like the spammy playstyle of outlaw
nocturne gate
hey guys im since few weeks in a mythic raid guild with7/11 m and yesterday i doin first time eonar on m... my question is when and on which mobs should i use my cds ? the log is so terrybad :D with just 9 :D
the most of the time i run irritated back and forth :D
brisk forge
Erm, follow your grp? You split in two. And as assa you go for ST, but Ofc you can padding on the small adds. But parse on Eonar sux
frozen pecan
use your cd's on the big adds but it's a wheelchair encounter for us
gilded lark
reroll affli and do 8m dps
nocturne gate
i know bc it was my first time and i have to see whats new etc but for future its good to know where i can use cds bc no using is also wasting i guess
gilded lark
dump into the big mobs and 
for pb
stark heart
Eonar is a meme boss anyway, don't bother with it
brisk forge
I am just glad that i ranked 87 on it after that i've only went for the big ones .Cba to care anymore about that boss. Do tacts, boss dead kinda mindset
jovial kite
zealous dew
i'm having a blast, level 55 😃
vernal adder
Think im done with WoW for awhile, felt like a chore to log
rapid hound
@shrewd oriole nice frames, which addon is that?
broken oasis
peops what do you consider the best leveling spec as rogues? (most efficient)
cold spoke
tb is boring but exsang is not 
id say theyre just equally boring
if thats the Proper word even
lone junco
The heirloom swords prob do ok.
gaunt moat
exsang was fun when it was 400% 😦
cold spoke
400% exsang 😄
gaunt moat
i mean broken OP sure...
but that's fun heh
limpid reef
If i only have the fan of knives leg cloak and the ravenhold ring (15% aoe dmg or whatever) is there a significant handicap in playing bleed build instead of poison?
shrewd oriole
Poison is easier to gear
cold spoke
i dont think it matters that much with those leggos 😐
shrewd oriole
With leggos like that you’re probably better off playing poison
Cuz bleed without boots and 3 ma isn’t amazing
Only then does it really kick in
brisk forge
If you play often enough you'll have gear for both but Ofc relics is a issue
vernal adder
@gaunt moat I joined you on the unsub life
cold spoke
you can have 3x ma and 3x bb for most versatile option 😐
limpid reef
Ahh i see! Cool cool! Been playing outlaw and sub so i am lacking in the sin legendary department xD
cold spoke
i dont think relics are issue here
shrewd oriole
The issue is getting the gear imo
cold spoke
and old 2p
shrewd oriole
If you’re rolling crit versa as off spec
Which you should if you’re playing poison
You’re never gonna get it
cold spoke
chest + shoulders youre not getting that easly
shrewd oriole
It’s shoulders chest or gloves
cold spoke
gloves are Easy
shrewd oriole
Exactly
cold spoke
but shoulders/chest is rly hard rn
shrewd oriole
Sure
cold spoke
since pugs doesnt go there
shrewd oriole
Hard to get people who want to do it
cold spoke
Tos is rarely even 6/9 its mostly 5
limpid reef
Cool cool! Thanks for the info guys!😁😊
lone junco
@turbid harbor bota fish at 400 would be real rng panic.
👀
And for the record. 400 exang was really awkward without 2p 20. The garrote gap feels weird.
stark heart
@vernal adder just play alpha
dire spoke
Tom pugging without me 😦
solid nova
😦
lone junco
@scarlet hawk 8k crit seems low. I have 13.5k + dog trinket. but that just means, that once you swap out any verse/mastery with crit+ then youll do just fine.
and dont stress over vers. Mastery is very similar stat weight, so crit/vers or crit/mastery will both do well.
frosty robin
who the fuck pinged me
scarlet hawk
8k is a bit low, but it also just shows that when I do decide to make the swap, I won't be completely trash
That 8k is with sockets in vers cause I used some gear from outlaw and so on. + enchants. So that will atleast go up 1k.
brisk forge
@shrewd oriole Have been afk but you can for sure have gear for all options lol. Its all depends on how many farm weeks/early kills/luck
fierce citrus
Um I have a question
Running a poison build on my rogue
And what's the statcap I should aim for ?
dire spoke
There are no soft nor hard caps, stack wathever sim tells you to
fierce citrus
Okay 
uneven lantern
Is golganneth worth using in a pug raid/mythic + world?
dire spoke
depends on how many people carry it and what other trinkets you got, checkk out herodamage.com for basic trinket simulations
bronze kelp
hey guys, does anyone know a good assa rogue that streams m+?
zealous dew
seliathan
dire spoke
Stjern sometimes streams m+
uneven lantern
Thanks zempai. For now i assume its jusr gonna out perform my 910 vers trink lul. Got the trinket in my first antorus clear lol
bronze kelp
what is the twitch name of seliathan?
zealous dew
incarnated
bronze kelp
thx
keen inlet
It's Friday my dudes
zealous dew
2h30 to go
supple scarab
anyone got a weakaura that does /say Poison Bomb! when it procs?
dire spoke
but nobody will like you for it in raids
crimson knoll
There’s one that shows an icon and plays a sound on proc. Much less intrusive.
dire spoke
can't you type two words in a search bar?
echo estuary
@supple scarab nice name
supple scarab
nvm found it now
grim wolf
this might not be the right channel, but does any1 know if you can do the immune necrotic strat for mythic varimathras
calm grail
No.
supple scarab
thx
calm grail
Found the swedish flag 🇸🇾
distant axle
shoulders+ bracers or bracers+boots any big difference? i only have 2set t21 atm
dire spoke
it can be, you should best answer that question with a simulation
echo estuary
🇸🇴
distant axle
i sim abit higher with shoulders+bracer using a quicksim on raidbots
dire spoke
there you go
distant axle
was just wondering because on the guide it says that bracers+boots should pull ahead. But yes it also says Sim yourself on the guide
dire spoke
Where did you read that?
manic vigil
nice
modern sluice
Hi, i just got the lege shoulders today. Do i use before using my third set of cooldowns or after them for envenoms?
Do i use vanish i mean
kindred forge
Yes you do
dire spoke
@modern sluice
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE
oh nvmd it's alright
dire spoke
nibble ring modifies poison bomb damage too, right?
shrewd oriole
Was told yday I can’t stream raids with ts sound anymore @gusty kestrel
Feels bad man
Apparently if you say something offensive on someone else’s stream as a twitch partner you still get your shit revoked
scarlet hawk
Pro vs Cons running 4+2 vs 4t21 in bleedspec? (missing shoulders from t20 and t21 atm, and t20 shoulders in any decent ilvl is prolly not very likely).
scarlet hawk
Is it really? 2set t20 only really benefits 2+ targets, no?
scarlet hawk
oh right
Is that energy that big tho?
I'm just looking at sims and seeing t21 4 piece up there.
lone junco
2p4p is energy reduction and garrote gap closure.
for me it is worth like 20-30k at 45ilvl drop.
warm parcel
no t20 and t20 garr uptime diff is like what 20%
lone junco
the garrote damage is minimal, but it is rather clunky without the 2p20
shrewd oriole
True
@lone junco they also increased base duration for blade flurry
CBb is gone tho
lone junco
@scarlet hawk if your 4p21 sim is much higher than 2p4p, there are a few things going on. your 2p20 ilvl is shit, or your bleed gear is still trying to be poison gear. so it values the poison crit.
@shrewd oriole rip cbb. such a fun graphic. could have scaled like eye beam
shrewd oriole
Yeah
scarlet hawk
I have 935 hands, I just don't have shoulders in neither set atm -.-
lone junco
we will level as outlaw for cheap stats from rtb. but transition for raid.
shrewd oriole
Don’t use t21 shoulders
scarlet hawk
So I guess I'm gonna go farm some ToS HC, cause avatar mythic is prolly not happening anytime soon.
shrewd oriole
Haste versa is v 
lone junco
you can totally do 4p21 exang, just have a clunky spot after exang where you cant refresh for a while.
scarlet hawk
oh rght ofc.
lone junco
but if you dont have 3v. or 2p4p. or bracer boots, or 40+ crit, the whole package will suck balls.
scarlet hawk
I got 3v, I'll get boots within two weeks, so that's when I'll make the change
lone junco
some might. I dont.
scarlet hawk
Ye but I'm tired of it and want something else
shrewd oriole
Well yeah noobe
lone junco
I must be in a weird ilvl spot
shrewd oriole
Cuz you have the specific pieces to make it work
This guy doesn’t
He’s gonna get way worse results lol
scarlet hawk
Well I almost do
lone junco
my neck ring combo is pretty good.
scarlet hawk
What are you simming for Noobe?
shrewd oriole
You don’t have boots or 2p4p
lone junco
2.08 957
shrewd oriole
Do you have 40+% crit?
lone junco
scarlet hawk
This convo assumes I have boots in the first place, ofc.
lone junco
i do alright.
scarlet hawk
Well those logs are obviously old ones tho. Prolly doesn't perform those logs today with poison rng logs being top
shrewd oriole
They’re not old ones
scarlet hawk
2.1m on garothi is no-mans-land today
shrewd oriole
They’re ilvl logs
lethal heart
i mean
keen inlet
Tom
scarlet hawk
True
lethal heart
exsang also has big rng
keen inlet
I laughed when Preach mentioned ilvl logs
lethal heart
getting bota after vanish rupture
keen inlet
and specifically responded like
lethal heart
is pretty big
keen inlet
"OMG INCOMING RH RAGE AT iLVL PARSES"
scarlet hawk
But noobe
brisk forge
Cute numbers 😏
scarlet hawk
how are you only 957
scarlet hawk
Are those HC logs?
keen inlet
I'm 953. heroic, bad tf luck
lone junco
962 as poison
keen inlet
¯_(ツ)_/¯
lone junco
ofc.
lethal heart
plottwist
brisk forge
My pala is 967eq HC
brisk forge
And my Rogue 978 m
lone junco
nah. Flex is king.
idgaf about mythic
If there were mythic flex, id do that
recruitment for mythic is a pita.
as anyone who is gm/rl knows.
lone junco
k
lone junco
I also can prefer heroic flex.
if i can beat sim, or be > 75% ilvl parse, im doing fine
brisk forge
Be a Raider in a stable guild with nice ranks and a mentality as a casual guild gg 😀
lone junco
turns out i do a lot better than that.
scarlet hawk
I mean, ye it's nice to just go with whatever you have and raid anyways. But hc is just so boring :S
lone junco
its only boring if you over gear it
keen inlet
^
lone junco
Once you do Mythic content the next tier is broken easy
scarlet hawk
Well first week you overgeared it from mythic + :S
keen inlet
If you're bringing along, let's just call them "casual" raiders
it's pretty intense tbh
drifting cloud
becuase people are bad not because of gear
keen inlet
DIalla your bias is skewed because of the level that you play at--and that's normal for mythic raiders to feel that way
scarlet hawk
W/E this is a completely different discussion anyway. Fair enough if that's what you decide to do, I won't flame you for what you enjoy 😛
lone junco
if you stay in a heroic progression line, its really not that bad
keen inlet
but the 95% of other players have a very different experience than that!
Which is what Preach was trying to illustrate in the 'project'
lone junco
we can 1h normy. and carry with 2 main dps. but heroic coven is still rough.
lone junco
doesnt mean that I dont get 15/dm a week from rogues doing mythic progress asking for tips 👌
keen inlet
I also appreciated Preach's comment that so much of pugging is hours of waiting
lone junco
the argus ones boggle me a bit, but it is what it is
keen inlet
waiting for invite, waiting for group to fill, waiting to pull
lethal heart
thats what i hate about pugs when i pug a heroic and i see a tank leaving
keen inlet
if you only have 1-3 hours of playtime a night that basically makes pugging nearly impossible
lethal heart
or a healer
i just cba already
i know its gonna take 30 minutes to get someone there
keen inlet
unless you luck into a guild run
lethal heart
god bless if we have a warlock
keen inlet
tbh more than warlock should have porting
keen inlet
and kill me for being casual, but Have Group Will Travel should come back
inb4 "MUH WORLD PVP"
lethal heart
like give us something xd
lone junco
i didnt know there was an engineering rez conduit until like a month ago
if i were healer, id prob have cared.
lethal heart
you mean pylon?
lethal heart
yea it's handy
ye
it's legion thing
there used to be army knife to res people but it was unreliable
scarlet hawk
Hey man, I still appreciate it and the majority of you guys are obviously better at playing a rogue than I am. DPS and ranking wise anyways, so I'll happily sit here and get schooled.
lethal heart
since wotlk i think
legion brought a lot of 'utility' from professions imo
pylons/skysteps
keen inlet
The thing with the difficulty tiers is unless you're getting tremendous caches, tf, etc., you're nto going to "outgear" the rank.
A guild in normal antorus isn't going to leap to heroic right away, and heroic isn't going to magically get 20 and start clearing mythic.
You're working off player skill as a gate, not gear
But also, like Preach noted, the more geared you become the less useful teh caches are likely to be
(I haven't had a useful one in literal months)
warm parcel
One interesting point thats easy to miss is that old players have already had 10 years to get better at the game
VS the newcomers that might have been around for a year or two
vestal wren
more efficient at managing farm/grind
tho most things are fairly easy to optimize
i can see a new player beeing overwhelmed with choices but its quite easy to calculate time/reward ratios
vestal wren
the issue roots more in the player themself that values other things over it
keen inlet
A vanilla player would be equally lost in legion
the classes are all borderline unrecognizable from anything pre-wrath
and in many cases, unrecognizable even post-wrath
vestal wren
e.g. ppl farm a mount or gold rather then running hc splitruns or similar
lone junco
and, there are a lot of players with years and years of played time, that still dont use sims or pawn and just wing it.
winging it, and feelycraft may get you to 50% ilvl, but gl.
turbid harbor
he means people who have raided mythic for expansions will be generally better than those who haven't
who cares about random casuals that farm mounts their entire life
obviously doesn't apply to them that they'll be better at the game
lone junco
there are people in here posting mythic logs that are grossly bad.
warm parcel
Yea
warm parcel
Like Ive raided hc/mythic for years
Not like a new comer instantly jumps to that skill level 90% of the time
turbid harbor
it's very rare
scarlet hawk
Okay I just noticed I was missing some stuff in my previous sim.
I simmed with mantle instead of insignia, and I DO infact have t21 shoulders, just somehow forgot because I've been running mantle for so long.
warm parcel
Even something as simple as knowing what all classes do
lone junco
-20iq me all you want. but the limiting function of mythic raiding is roster.
keen inlet
idk. there's a difference between aptitude and achievement, too...but they're related
keen inlet
some people jump in, find it easy to learn, and assume it's easy for everyone
lone junco
my fav are the 99 heroic logs that are green by ilvl. sry bud, your ilvl carries. you arent actually good.
keen inlet
their perspective is biased.
lone junco
this is very very common.
turbid harbor
do you think your guild could clear the difficult mythic bosses if there were 20 of you noobe?
i've looked at a couple of your logs
if you gave everybody 20 ilvl in your guild
lone junco
we could do the first 2 within 10 pulls.
keen inlet
@turbid harbor There's an argument to be made for rising to a challenge, which can motivate people sometimes. Not 100% guaranteed though
lone junco
with 18 people
vestal wren
you dont need to know what classes do if you want to raid mythic
keen inlet
But if you can't get to that challenge because of roster, it's a valid point
vestal wren
you can be clueless and play a simple class and be efficient enough
given you have gear luck you are also top dps
keen inlet
@vestal wren If you're carried by others, sure
lone junco
i want to do mythic, but we have about 5 that would /meh and log out.
warm parcel
What happened to the wildstar pros coming over to wow
lone junco
the nerd points are not high enough for the wipe count.
warm parcel
That were supposed to crush us all
turbid harbor
that was a good meme
wildstar was such a small game that even the best players there were probably not top wow players
even if they had wow exp
lone junco
@turbid harbor i doubt we would have passed mistress. or coven. honestly.
but we dont kick people for being bad.
keen inlet
they would, of course, disagree with you strongly lol
scarlet hawk
Well... ilvl matters less and less the higher you get. Cause the playingfield is much more competitive for the top 100, and so you rely much more on RnG than on your play.
You can play shit and have great rng and go form 30% to 99% in ilvl bracket.
This is only "worse" in mythic.
keen inlet
"WILDSTAR IS FOR HARDCORES AGUOHAOEGUHAOEGUHAEGH"
vestal wren
@keen inlet not nessecerly, if you know your role decently well and its simple enough to get high output you are exactly what is needed. The raid lead needs to know what is needed for a boss or how classes work together
turbid harbor
yea @lone junco that's fine and i agree
lone junco
@scarlet hawk no excuses for playing green ilvl. at any level.
turbid harbor
different kind of guild
keen inlet
@vestal wren Again, I think you underestimate the level that's required for success in mythic
lone junco
unless it is mechanic driven like you are on pods forever.
keen inlet
And the true "average" of the wow community
lone junco
and 1st kill doesnt count.
keen inlet
(hint: it's way, way, way lower than you think)
warm parcel
True average iq is smaller than my shoe size
lone junco
dont worry about iq
turbid harbor
wowprogress has stats on % of guilds that have killed a boss on heroic and mythic
vestal wren
inb4 weak:
lone junco
yeah garothi min bar is way under varith heroic.
warm parcel
😄
lone junco
the shoe fits
warm parcel
memes aside my original point was:
If a person A has raided at what ever level for 10 years its quite likely he outperforms the person that just literally installed wow 6 months ago
be it vanilla afk
bc shadowbolt spam
wrath 2 button arcane
or legion 20 apm sin
dire spoke
hey weak
vestal wren
@keen inlet i know that its hard to underpeform on certain specs and that i am able to take half of the players of those specs to mythic raids and make them peform good enough
warm parcel
👋
scarlet hawk
@lone junco I don't know what sort of level you've played at in the past, but it really does rely on RnG. It's an easy excuse to make as well, and personally I strive to no rely on that, and honestly at the end of the day I couldn't give a fuck about ranks.
But when you get to ilvl 970+ and you're playing at that level, everyone are playing their spec well. (Mostly anyway). Atleast comparitevely to a 950 bracket. You'll have way more players in that bracket and way more players who couldn't give a fuck if they press button #1 or #2 first.
dire spoke
how's bfa prep going 😄
vestal wren
age has no impact on it
keen inlet
fuu told me the age reactivity thing is a myth
but I haven't seen data to substantiate either side
just that young guys tend to be world firsts
old guys don't
😉
scarlet hawk
Hence if you just do your rotation correctly in 950 brackets, you'll most likely be 75% either way. Not so on mythic(970ish).
lone junco
life commitments prob
gaunt moat
i don't think it's a myth
vestal wren
there are studies for it
gaunt moat
i think you can counter it to some extent but it does matter
warm parcel
what bfa prep
lone junco
life commitment vs time available/played
warm parcel
Overwatch you mean?
vestal wren
the reaction time impact is minimal, the only diffrence is that yonger persons tent to put more time into the game then older ones
and time is a big factor in a mmo
gaunt moat
ehhh
warm parcel
🤔
keen inlet
it turns out in most games MMR only improves to a certain point
warm parcel
Tell that to bruce lee
keen inlet
and then stagnates
I remember Ghostcrawler exploring the topic
referencing internal data etc
lone junco
a lot of people shit on heroic progression curves and thats fine. but we finish heroic argus, at the ilvl you started Mythic garothi. the curve is there. so any mythic progress in T20 bumps your start for 21. etc.
vestal wren
practice makes perfect
keen inlet
Individually set
depending on aptitude
this isn't just for wow
it's for every game out there
player "skill" follows an exponential curve
where they grow faster at earlier/worse stages
vestal wren
btw. measuring skill depends on the enviroment
keen inlet
and then basically become an asymptote
approaching their "limit" through increasingly larger time periods but never reaching it
vestal wren
e.g. if you didnt see the ladder system have diffrent potions of the community in the highest leagues:
(link:https://imgur.com/a/ulZdy)
warm parcel
that graph is nice and all
But OW rank system is just dogshit
So it doesnt really do justice to the comparison
vestal wren
that is why i mentioned environment
drifting cloud
yeah isnt OW rank system designed for more than 50% of the playerbase to be gold-plat
keen inlet
environment* ❤
warm parcel
Like I havent yet come across another game where I can suddenly go up and down 50% of the games skill ladder in a week
Just based on how retarded my team decides to act up
vestal wren
thats the burdon of team based games
warm parcel
ye
I havent ever went from dia to silver in league
Just cause team decided to have a drop out for 5 games in a row
That simply doesnt happen
vestal wren
in mobas it depend on the individual impact too
warm parcel
Or go from supreme to fucking gold nova
vestal wren
if the individual impact becomes to low the game gets borring and fustrating
warm parcel
Thats just not supposed to happen ever
vestal wren
e.g. the reason riot recently (last season + now) made the personal impact higher again
the mathematic base in ow seems off then
drifting cloud
its just the game design
lone junco
I had OW beta. giant Meh to me.
vestal wren
league mmr is a approximation where the impact gets lower when you play more
lone junco
I played a ton of Counterstrike, but hate Halo Style boosts and item powers. Ill take headshots and body armor thx.
warm parcel
OW comp is a mess due to many reasons
Theres no role selection:
You get into game and pray to god its not 5 support mains against a proper team
Low penalty for griefing/leaving people do it all day
And then its the willingness of people to adapt and swap midgame.
VS something like cs where its just whos good at aiming
vestal wren
i am sadly not familiar wit their system
warm parcel
Theres so many factors that are just not about you
You have so little control over the games
vestal wren
to be fair i didnt expect it to work good when it first came out
warm parcel
There were examples of people having 2 accounts to see whats up.
One is high master at like 4300 rating
Second one was stuck at 3500 due to just being unlucky for weeks
My league accounts are all around the same dia mmr
And every season I climbed back up there
Very quickly
And steadily
lone junco
I loved the talent builds in Poe, and multiplier nature of D3, but holy shit I love the Tank/heal/dps meta.
vestal wren
i didnt play for some seasons now
i am not sure i would be efficient in climping
main issue are things you automated and now need to re-learn
warm parcel
In OW Ive jumped between 2800 and 2400 these 2 weeks Ive played after I got back.
And its laughable sometimes when there is just nothing you can do
drifting cloud
thats mostly why I quit the game
warm parcel
Me and my friend were steady rank 70 in season 1
vestal wren
is there a competitive ranking in pubg/fortinte?
drifting cloud
because Im not a godlike fps player mostly average at least with a good sense of strat
but in OW that doesnt mean shit
when people just go die 1 by 1
warm parcel
Its so difficult to try and influense your team
vestal wren
thats due to personal impact then
vestal wren
the balancing emphasize on teamplay rather then personal skill
drifting cloud
thats the point personal impact doesnt do shit in OW
lone junco
Ayy, if i were to pug into a Mythic EN/NH/TOV/TOMB could I even get in with my ilvl?
warm parcel
It could
drifting cloud
1 guy playing bad does way more than you playing godlike
warm parcel
If there were a role system
lone junco
I wouldnt mind a EN Mythic run, but prob need to be 970
vestal wren
i mean that would be my first conclusion from what you guys talk about
warm parcel
In OW its about praying IF you get to play what you want
Oh 5 dps mains one tank
Guess were not gonna have good healers this game
If any
Want to play dps all night?
Might get lucky and have 2 games out of 15 where youre given dps spot
keen inlet
OW
is everybody sitting there saying
"Am I gonna have to change or is someone else"
warm parcel
I mean its just like random bgs
keen inlet
I main zenyatta and sometimes a mercy main comes in and I'm like
well, alright then
warm parcel
There is totally no balance when it comes to healers on team
keen inlet
and then they're just a fiverr pocket healer anyway
warm parcel
One team might get 5 other 0
keen inlet
that never leaves 1 player
vapid moth
Why exactly would the person that raided for 10 years be better than the one that installed the game 6 months ago?
vestal wren
the next question would be to ask if it would make sense to enforce the meta
if yes you could go with leagues queue aproach
warm parcel
why would a person thats played football for 10 years on average beat out the guy that started 6 months ago
warm parcel
The thing with role que is:
Role que at least rules out the randomness of getting no players of x role
keen inlet
There's an argument to be made for dexterity, and muscle memeory, but they keep changing classes every xpac
¯_(ツ)_/¯
warm parcel
If mmr is supposed to say Im on average a dps player of 2500 skill rating.
Then youre given 5 healers of 2500 skill rating
And those 5 healers are around 1900 rating in dps
How is that fair
keen inlet
(in wow specifically)
drifting cloud
they probably prefer to keep it broken like now
warm parcel
Like imagine being thrown into Nl 25 with 4 holy priest mains
That now have to play mm hunter and sub rogue
That they might have tried leveling up
GL m8
When the opposing team gets all their main chars
drifting cloud
does OW still have the losing/winning streak +- mmr
warm parcel
afaik no
drifting cloud
that was the best part lose 3 in a row get punished with extra mmr loss
atleast thats something if its removed
keen inlet
me on OW losing streaks
scarlet hawk
Okay, so I simmed a bunch of different gear
Gems and Enchants are still mastery / vers
But this is simming 2.15m , about 100k less than my poison spec.
This is running 3v. 4t+2t, 43% crit
vernal adder
3volt?
scarlet hawk
@lone junco Anything in here that stands out to you as being wrong/missing?
echo estuary
gotta carry more Don!
scarlet hawk
wtf.
vernal adder
what support do you play Don?
lone junco
just take that export and fix it.
keen inlet
Zenyatta
for the most part
love the story/character, love the playstyle
but sucks without a good team
lone junco
vernal adder
I play Moira if I play healer, fun to play
keen inlet
I'll occasionally go Ana
scarlet hawk
Well I have the 3v. Just not in the sim -.-
vernal adder
its fun to carry as "healer"
scarlet hawk
it was supposed to be there 😛
lone junco
sec
vernal adder
lmao, long game?
lone junco
inc
swapping insig for a 960 crit ring and bracers is a wash.
so until you get 2 crit rings, you are in a good spot prob
wait. spec is wrong
scarlet hawk
Do you run subterfuge with 4+2 ?
scarlet hawk
Omg deeper strategem ofc.
scarlet hawk
around 2.27 or so.
lone junco
I swapped out the Argus ring and the insig for 960 Solidute/Thumb ring. and it was a wash. so insig is fine
decent to see the crit mastery stack ofc.
cause that is easier to get.
could prob compare that EP/Insig/Boot with 0p4p and see a gain. esp if you have like 975 Crit/mastery pieces.
scarlet hawk
ye
lone junco
not everyone has 960 2p20
lone junco
0
@scarlet hawk your 975 crit bracers do help a lot in dropping zoldyk. Mine are shit, so i might be stuck for a while.
scarlet hawk
Ye
lone junco
I would like to use insig some, and ditch my Thumb ring.
scarlet hawk
Can you send me the report on that sim?
lone junco
which step. and I closed them.
drifting cloud
if you have an account they save
scarlet hawk
Cool
lone junco
full disclosure, I just took your non vendettas, an env an rupture and changed them to vendetta.
so the ilvl is prob far better than you have on hand.
but to gain 100k in 3 mins isnt bad.
drifting cloud
funny how you sim 2.2 at 960
lone junco
he is.
scarlet hawk
Ye I'm just doing it atm with my own
drifting cloud
oh
drifting cloud
yeah but I legit cant find any exang logs in mythic
scarlet hawk
They're there
lone junco
poison has a higher max, lower avg
scarlet hawk
But on top 100 on garothi I think there are like, 2
lone junco
so in the top 100 youll see a lot of rng maxes
drifting cloud
gotta play the gamble spec
scarlet hawk
lel
lone junco
for me. I have a constant and higher average as bleed.
and with the very high crit, it is super smooth.
drifting cloud
did someone do any math if you have aman'thuls
do you then personally have more uptime on pantheon
since youre always the filler proc
and amanthul proc is main stat right sounds so good
scarlet hawk
Hmmm. I was convinced I simmed 2.27 the other day, but now I'm back to 2.23 on poison.
drifting cloud
my bad then
lone junco
if you want to use panth users, Loktark says 8 is a good est. Its not a huge gain either way, but you will see like 1.2-1.5% in your simc average
but always use 0 for 5man ofc
scarlet hawk
I only really care for mythic raids. So I'll always be in a group with 18-20 panths depending on the fight. I don't optimize for any other aspect of the game.
dire spoke
sim uses legendary not the normal trinket
it proccs more often
so stuff can be slightly off
strange python
panth proc isn’t a huge dps increwse for sin tho
scarlet hawk
Ehm
strange python
i think in a group of 18 and 1 amanthul who don’t run it it’s only about 2% of my dmg
where for outlaw it’s like 12 or something nutty
scarlet hawk
It is pretty big. It scewes with your scaling too.
grim canopy
Who has more survibility in M+ rogue or havok dh
strange python
is that even a question
lone junco
Rogues are king of surv. Dh has better eye beam.
foggy beacon
not at all close no
lone junco
if you die a lot as melee, try rogue. ezpz imo
cheat death is our jesus and salvation.
strange python
having 50% aoe dmg reduction constantly is also nutty
strange python
for bursting i also run will on trash a lot
for bigger pulls and some of the stuff in dht and upper /maw
i actually think it’s hunter time if BFa keeps the direction on mm they’re going
steep obsidian
it does look interesting i dont like current mm at all cept the big numbers with trueshot marked shot spam in aoe
i actually liked hfc mm with that tiers bonus the best though :\
robust light
is pandemic a third of the total dot time?
vestal wren
30% of duration
robust light
alright ty
wind gull
Hey gang. I just got into my first mythic guild and I am now 8/11. I have done the first eight bosses twice now but feel like my dps is low. Are there any boss specific guides for maximizing dps as sin? Like tips and tricks for each boss?
mossy flicker
Hello guys, I came back on WoW and I only have 2p t21 for now, should I play with Shoulders/Wrists or Wrists/Boots as legendaries ?
frozen pecan
@mossy flicker sim the difference with raidbots or simcraft
mossy flicker
ok thank you 😃
wind gull
@lone junco Thanks man. Read the guide a long time ago and didn’t realize the tips were in there.
frozen pecan
@shrewd oriole where u at boi
spare cloud
dk discord full of weebs
