assassination

[manic vigil]

I hate you ramlu

Just saying

[vernal adder]

ty

[spare cloud]

Werent you muted

[vernal adder]

[manic vigil]

Nope

[spare cloud]

Why not

[manic vigil]

Never have been

Because I'm a good boy

[spare cloud]

Fuck off

[manic vigil]

Change my mind

Rude

[hoary copper]

What is the difference between a Hippo and a Zippo?
A Hippo is really heavy, but a Zippo is a little lighter.

[spare cloud]

I wasnt even talking to you

<.<

[manic vigil]

That one made me actually laugh

Sah bit true

[spare cloud]

I dont understand it

[bold dune]

there's a word that clinical psychologists would use to describe what's happening in this chat rn but I'm not allowed to say it because don will get angry

[spare cloud]

can you explain

[manic vigil]

Where did the nasty go nelbur?

It's showing anyway

[spare cloud]

Banned for pinging despots and shadowblades

[manic vigil]

Might as well have it as a name

[vernal adder]

ye ping everyone again Nelbur, was fun the last time

[bold dune]

had to attempt to rebrand @manic vigil

[manic vigil]

Fair

[bold dune]

since I joined a real guild

[spare cloud]

[nimble belfry]

can somebody explain how to pool properly?

[vernal adder]

dont sack the 8ball first

[manic vigil]

[nocturne gate]

1.(bleed) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wwyLnBorRrPrnRD3mXZ3ej 2.(shoulder+bracer)https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wwyLnBorRrPrnRD3mXZ3ej 3.(bracer+boots)https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/abSdFFzykZtvmiHKM13jEi

which reason why i shouldnt play bleed

[plain thistle]

hi

[lost horizon]

@nimble belfry just make sure you have energy before TB and KB and shit

Don't spam envenom and overlap your tier buff unless you're in mantle window and shit

[manic vigil]

First link is not with bleed spec @nocturne gate

[nocturne gate]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/m1Dx7ewkLHyQ7Wt9QNybof

sry :D

[nimble belfry]

i just started rogue so i have no tier. i just find it hard not to spam

[manic vigil]

That's hilarious

You can play what you want apparently

[lost horizon]

Track SoT then and try to avoid overlapping it too much

[nimble belfry]

SoT?

[nocturne gate]

surge of toxin

[nimble belfry]

aah

[lost horizon]

@nocturne gate you should sim at shorter fight length see what wins out

[nimble belfry]

is it the end of the worild if it falls of?

[lost horizon]

Probably shoulders

@nimble belfry no, sin is pretty forgiving

But it should help you stop spamming and being energy starved

[keen inlet]

depends on who you talk to

less than 99% mythic log = end of the world tbh 😏

[manic vigil]

[keen inlet]

memes aside if you take Merlin's advice and try it out on a target dummy you'll realize how much better the play feels when you're not spamming

[manic vigil]

Yeah, doing less is doing more sometimes. I still have to remind myself of that occasionally

I like spamming! Time to become a DH maybe?

[dire spoke]

[nimble belfry]

@lost horizon ah okay

[keen inlet]

I don't need to, but I still play SND like spammy old-school combat

I remember cata combat with daggers...spam fiesta

proc wings HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG
break keyboard

[lone junco]

@nocturne gate why doesnt your bleed have bracer boot?

[dire spoke]

The wings were proc? I got them in WoD and they're on use

[keen inlet]

in cata they procced RNG from stacking buff

agi (?) stacks, after a certain point had a high chance of "proccing" your wings which was essentially a COTDB use

[manic vigil]

I initially intended to go back to mage with bfa. But I kinda don't like the whole turret deal of ranged classes anymore

[keen inlet]

and your wings would "pop" during combat

as a visual cue that you'd swapped your stacks

tbh they were a really cool legendary

[nocturne gate]

@lone junco https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6NpBioW3bQKNx5tqXJayxU

[shrewd oriole]

Bershka is so cringe holy moly

[manic vigil]

Even better. Bleedy boiz just got a new member

[keen inlet]

it's not a word, is a lifestyle?

[echo estuary]

made in china

[keen inlet]

I can't tell if the god-awful grammar is part of the meme or not

[shrewd oriole]

I wanna buy it

Just so I can burn it

[sharp viper]

all part of the maymay

[manic vigil]

And I'm bored again

@vernal adder more jokes please

[keen inlet]

in voice

not here

lol

[manic vigil]

What have I done

Thanks for stopping me don

[keen inlet]

np

🏋

[lone junco]

@nocturne gate hrrm. veeeerrryyy interesting.

[nocturne gate]

talking with and 11/11 only bleed playin rouge he tells me it is if i lack a bit on crit then isignia simms a bit higher

[manic vigil]

Rouge?!

[strange python]

noobe is 11/11 too

[manic vigil]

I'll never be a bleedy boi

[strange python]

bleed is so fluid tbh

like theres always something to press and i think thats why i like it

[manic vigil]

I can barely keep enough crit to make boots bracers poison work

Oh I'd try it

Just sims like shit

[strange python]

thats fair, my crit was so high anyway that it was just natural

[manic vigil]

Because low crit

[faint vale]

@brisk forge almost 19:00. Reminder for 2.5M alac

[manic vigil]

[strange python]

my best simming spec by like 3k is ep/tb boots bracer 0p4p but bleed is right behind it

and "feels" better

[manic vigil]

Crit is just sexy af

[lone junco]

@nocturne gate prob my trash bracers. but ill keep an eye on it.

[manic vigil]

I need to get more

[lone junco]

and, that my rings are both really good, insig loses some juice.

[strange python]

wait arent you losing 2p4p in those sims

with shoulderpads and gloves

[fervent beacon]

He is but his main sim has it.

[lone junco]

yeah, i tried to go 0p4p cause my offpieces are massive

ill run again with 2p4p

[strange python]

his main sim is boots/bracers tho

[lone junco]

2p4p insig boot

[vapid moth]

Noobe is 11/11 M?

[manic vigil]

[fervent beacon]

I really want to go bleed but I don't think I got good setup

[strange python]

not but hes 11/11

[vapid moth]

Ok

[lone junco]

yeah. my bracers are bin

[vapid moth]

Was wondering when that happened lmao

[fervent beacon]

As bleed, bracers is pretty much needed

[lone junco]

I mean, ...

ive done a few pulls with them 😉

[keen inlet]

If you don't know you have a good setup for certain, then you should stay poison and snooze to r1

[lone junco]

just looking at insig as an option

[manic vigil]

It's kinda funny that you can't even play another sub spec without the proper gear

[nocturne gate]

ok i dont sime with the t20

[lone junco]

yeah I saw that.

[nocturne gate]

maybe its a reason too

[shrewd oriole]

@hoary copper

[keen inlet]

@manic vigil SND is the same way honestly

[lone junco]

I did both

[manic vigil]

I bet yeah

[shrewd oriole]

For you Bruno

[keen inlet]

it's just that some people hate RTB so much they go SND anyway

[lone junco]

clean your room grill

[keen inlet]

I was just thinking that

I'm old 😦

[shrewd oriole]

Has anyone ever been to an AA meeting

Wait that’s a dumb question

Lmao

[hoary copper]

What was that tag Tom? its empty?

[manic vigil]

No you are NOT old don

Damn it

[lone junco]

bad ui, inc

[manic vigil]

[shrewd oriole]

He’s p old

Noobe could be my dad

[manic vigil]

But I'm older

So if Don is old

What am I

[lone junco]

old

[shrewd oriole]

Older

[manic vigil]

[hoary copper]

I'm only a few months younger than Don apparently

[keen inlet]

"the ancients"

[dire spoke]

ded

[hoary copper]

You're dirt Uni

old as dirt

[drifting cloud]

cant tell if old is 25 or 40 in here monkaS

[shrewd oriole]

35+

[dire spoke]

whew I dodged

[shrewd oriole]

Feels good man being 20

[manic vigil]

I'm 34

Ez

NOT old

Hahaha

[shrewd oriole]

Old man don tries to ban me and I just walk away

[hoary copper]

Sok Uni, Tom is still waiting for puberty

[shrewd oriole]

A kid clawed me today

FBM

Only noticed the hound now

[dire spoke]

Acne

[manic vigil]

I want some Toblerone

[dire spoke]

Me too

I have no Money

[manic vigil]

We need someone who goes shopping for us

[dire spoke]

donate pls

[manic vigil]

Swiss no money

Means he's still rich

[dire spoke]

[manic vigil]

No pepe

Not coo man, not coo

[keen inlet]

no pepo!?

[manic vigil]

Always pepo

[keen inlet]

[lone junco]

My meme/photo folder is pretty solid. like this girl from my home town drinking out of a plastic flamingo.

[keen inlet]

is that you on the right noobe

😏

[lone junco]

a guy from school. not me.

i cropped the photo, for sensitive eyeballs

[manic vigil]

That shirt tho

Wow

[hoary copper]

now Im wondering what was cropped

[manic vigil]

Don't

[hoary copper]

too many Jefferson counties

I'd guess Alabama or Florida as the top choices tho

[manic vigil]

Is that shirt a meme btw

Or

[lone junco]

it's legit.

[manic vigil]

Muricans are special

[hoary copper]

I stand by the states I mentioned then

[manic vigil]

What happened to Fans of Knives btw?

No Material?

Ded game, ded class

[keen inlet]

There isn't much content tbh

and alpha is too alpha-y to discuss in any meaningful way

[manic vigil]

Makes sense yeah

Boring tho

We need a new bug or something

[lone junco]

lol

eq progression

HAHAHAHAA

No.

[strange python]

dispatch = puhhh

[lone junco]

re BFA. I cant imagine a M+ scenario where i wouldnt take the higher proc chance Poison bomb. discuss.

(afk)

[lost horizon]

I mean as always it just comes down to the math on other talents

Once tuning and shit happens

[keen inlet]

The issue is that PB is strong ST as well

[manic vigil]

Agreed

So CT would need to be some serious aoe prowess

[lone junco]

maybe if CT stacked to like 3

[strange python]

will exsang consum ct too ?

[lone junco]

no

not even your current target (which it should)

[vernal adder]

What did the Mexican fire man call his kids?

Hose A and Hose B

[strange python]

i try on dummy

[manic vigil]

[strange python]

???xD

[lone junco]

CT is such a short duration that the ST exang wont do much.

[cold spoke]

poison bomb woudnt be that good on higher m+

since unreliable

[lone junco]

higher chance, and shoulder 50% talent.

[keen inlet]

I think CT stacks aren't the right way to go tbh

[lone junco]

ct is too slow for fat trash

[keen inlet]

stacking isn't a good counter to high burst

(pb)

[shrewd oriole]

Pb is perfectly fine on alpha rn Hayde, have you played it at all @cold spoke ?

[keen inlet]

even if it's rng

[vernal adder]

When do you know if a vampire is sick?

When they're coffin too much.

[keen inlet]

and yeah pb on alpha is litaf tbh

[lone junco]

I would rather fok CT fok CT fok CT tbh,

like overdotting Unstables.

[keen inlet]

! warn Ramlu NEVER AGAIN

[void pecan]

That's because you love all things bleed noobe.

[cold spoke]

No i havent, just discussing the potentials

[void pecan]

Biased.

[lone junco]

not true

bleed is walkable

[shrewd oriole]

Armchair opinions without having played it

🤔

[lone junco]

I dislike pb when moving.

[manic vigil]

He does have a brain tom

[lone junco]

and tabbing ruptures on 5x is lame

[cold spoke]

sorry that im thinking

[lone junco]

(they upped the PB chance)

[manic vigil]

I haven't been to space and we could still talk about it

[strange python]

ive no dmg meter for numbers, but personal feelings .. psn = best

[shrewd oriole]

@manic vigil Pb is fine in m+ right now

[manic vigil]

[keen inlet]

Yeah I'd also agree that you don't need to be on Alpha in order to intellectually consider stuff

[shrewd oriole]

It’s gonna get double the chance it has nose

Now*

[manic vigil]

Yeah

[shrewd oriole]

So it’s gonna be extra fine

[strange python]

not quite double

[shrewd oriole]

🤔

[manic vigil]

I agree from what I have seen so far (not first hand)

[shrewd oriole]

Ok yeah a little bit under double

[vernal adder]

Why do scuba divers fall backwards off of the boat? Because if they fell forward, they'd still be on the boat

[cold spoke]

what if it changes? Its alpha

[keen inlet]

@vernal adder

[cold spoke]

and still very early

[shrewd oriole]

If it changes we will discuss the changes the

Right now, it’s fine

[lone junco]

PB use like outlaw gloves would be ok.

[shrewd oriole]

Why would we say “ok it’s fine right now but what if it wasn’t”

Lmao

[vernal adder]

The frustrated cannibal threw up his arms

[lone junco]

maybe you get a proc trigger, buff and chose to use it

[cold spoke]

because its likely that it ll get changed

[lone junco]

make shit glow carry into the pull

[keen inlet]

idk

[cold spoke]

if a talent is way better than other 2, id suspect it getting changed

[lone junco]

if you cant drop pb immediately on command on a pull of 10+, i dont really want it

[shrewd oriole]

The core of the ability is unlikely to change

They’ve shown they like the gameplay PB provides

[lone junco]

ish.

[lost horizon]

There's a LOT of talent imbalance that's been on live for ages

[vernal adder]

This is my step ladder. I never knew my real ladder...

[strange python]

i want to find that ama again where they said pb was too powerful for what it was

[shrewd oriole]

@cold spoke that’s just not true

[keen inlet]

the whole concept of PB triggers me because it's lnot like "your poisons have a chance of erupting in a noxious blast, dealing x" but it's like "YOU RANDOMLY FOR SOME REASON DECIDE AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME TO THROW A VIAL ONTO THE GROUND WHICH YOUR TANK INVARIABLY PULLS OUT OF ANYWAY"

[shrewd oriole]

Look at sub rogue

[cold spoke]

Ait Nvm

[lost horizon]

There's probably still gonna be some go-to in BFA

[lone junco]

Lets get a proc like sidewinders

tbh

something lights up, you hit it

[lost horizon]

I dig it

[keen inlet]

tbh

the light up hit it

[lone junco]

so you can use it at the right time. not just fucking willy nilly

[keen inlet]

feels good

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shrewd oriole]

True

[keen inlet]

on every spec I play that features it

felt good when we had dispatch baseline.

[lone junco]

I played MM for a bit on beta legion, that was really nice.

[manic vigil]

Yeah I agree

[keen inlet]

BB feels good on rtb.

[lone junco]

suprisingly simple

[keen inlet]

etc

[lost horizon]

Anything that gives some kind of player control

[keen inlet]

Players like the reactivity

SO LONG AS it happens often enough

[strange python]

Poison Bomb as a random proc is okay, but it definitely has too high of a swing on final damage output. Poison Bomb can easily vary your damage on a pull by 15%, which is far too much for a single artifact trait/talent/etc.

[keen inlet]

if your parse depends on it, it doesn't feel good

[shrewd oriole]

Dispatch is p boring as an ability but procs are fun

[lone junco]

just not whackamole in ST

[strange python]

dispatch feels like wed noodles

[lone junco]

granted. if you get 3 PB procs back to back in ST. will be 🍆

[vernal adder]

married noodles?

[keen inlet]

On alpha it does feel weak in what little I've tested on it

[shrewd oriole]

@strange python that’s in line with changes in the alpha so far

[keen inlet]

(dispatch)

[shrewd oriole]

It’s more frequently, does less damage

[keen inlet]

but again...world questing in 110 greens

[strange python]

confirm don

[keen inlet]

not exactly reliable, objective experience

[strange python]

is it? they just made it stronger, when they said it is too strong already?

[lone junco]

i just want some abuse window for prepatch tbh.

[strange python]

psn feels best on alpha

[shrewd oriole]

Dispatch does feel meh

[strange python]

;/

[shrewd oriole]

@strange python it’s not stronger

It’s way less damage

It’s just more reliable

[lone junco]

if i can put together 40c 50h bleed,, will be nice

[shrewd oriole]

They reduced the damage lol

[strange python]

oh, okay

[shrewd oriole]

And had even reduced the duration from 3s to 2

Which is great

[lone junco]

hit instead of ticks. ok

better.

tbh, it should debuff mobs if tick.

not just pool

[shrewd oriole]

Dunno

[lone junco]

I dont mind it to tick.

[shrewd oriole]

Make vendetta aoe

😠

[lone junco]

no

[shrewd oriole]

Yea

[lone junco]

i know it sucks

[shrewd oriole]

Make it a buff

[strange python]

oh, it is double

[lone junco]

but thats what we get for ST pureblood

[strange python]

I guess I'm not up to date

don which talents u actually playing on alpha ?

it is 5% now

[lone junco]

none of this mudblood flex shit

[strange python]

i am switching every 5 minutes o.O

[lone junco]

buff is dance/symbol , AR

[shrewd oriole]

@strange python I think it got reverted back to 4

[lone junco]

I get it tho. vendetta sucks, but that wont change.

[shrewd oriole]

I’d love if vendetta was a buff 🤷 shit like nemesis or vendetta only feel frustrating

[strange python]

🤷

[shrewd oriole]

There’s no upsides to it being a debuff

[lone junco]

with the CDR gone you are correct

45sec is very nice

[shrewd oriole]

Never played with 45s rip

[keen inlet]

y'all remember when combo points were locked on a target

And then monks came and got chi

[lone junco]

but at 1:30 or what not. Debuff is trash

[keen inlet]

I remember. Never been so tilted at wow in my life

[shrewd oriole]

Yeah

[lost horizon]

Nemesis at least gets you the buff against same enemy type

[shrewd oriole]

Been rogue since BC

[lost horizon]

Vendetta just whiffs

[shrewd oriole]

I member cps

It felt trash

[keen inlet]

you mean tricks?

[shrewd oriole]

[lone junco]

anyway. CT is nice concept. just need it to scale

[shrewd oriole]

Tricks the dps cd

[keen inlet]

it's going back that way

[cold spoke]

Remember when all the feedback during cata created monk class?

[shrewd oriole]

Combat was the best spec for years

[keen inlet]

kinda meh about that

[cold spoke]

its not only chu

[dark crag]

the good old hfb, people wanted it removed and got vendetta

[cold spoke]

chi*

[keen inlet]

preferred it to be an aggro tool

[shrewd oriole]

Sub was first played in raiding in cata p much

[lone junco]

combat was fine for patchwork. but these mechanics are nice as sin.

[shrewd oriole]

LUL

[lone junco]

unless you are jousting redbuff ks

[shrewd oriole]

Idd

[keen inlet]

There was some sub in wrath

[shrewd oriole]

Don’t mention redbuff

[lone junco]

I love the pace too. 24apm is my jam

[shrewd oriole]

I get nostalgic

[dark crag]

hat build in naxx

[keen inlet]

yeah

[shrewd oriole]

@keen inlet most was bleed combat iirc

[lone junco]

my druid lolled me in 2s. I played combat wod. would get hoj, bg drops.

[keen inlet]

generally hated rogue in wrath tho :/

[cold spoke]

Bandits guile 🤢

[lone junco]

resto: wtf do you play this spec

[shrewd oriole]

Keep yourself simmed

Red buff was fun as shit

[dark crag]

wasn't the sub rogues the first to hit 9k dps ore something like that?

[shrewd oriole]

Red buff KS in brf thogar

That’s peak wow

[cold spoke]

i Remember bandits guile in siege

[shrewd oriole]

Putting your hands in the back of your head as top the dps meters

[cold spoke]

you Didn’t even play around it

[keen inlet]

heh i'm now realizing KS worked because of redbuff

[strange python]

cheeeeeeeeeees

[keen inlet]

well

it also needed poisons.

nevermind.

[shrewd oriole]

God

Instant poison

[cold spoke]

pressing 100 buttons every one second

[shrewd oriole]

Wow combat was so fun

Yeah

It was as fast as current outlaw

But it actually did damage

On aoe

[keen inlet]

BC combat was my favorite rogue era. It's been a long time.

[shrewd oriole]

Instant poison multistrike triggering more poison procs

[keen inlet]

But combat with leggo daggers was pretty great.

[shrewd oriole]

[cold spoke]

i liked wrath combat

[shrewd oriole]

@keen inlet YESSSS

[cold spoke]

i hate outlaw

[strange python]

bc .. sub 😦

shit

[shrewd oriole]

cata combat was amazing

Bc sub was p decent in pvp

[cold spoke]

sub in dragon soul

[strange python]

i played pvp only

[cold spoke]

was the shit

[shrewd oriole]

Puke

1 fight

[cold spoke]

[shrewd oriole]

Legit only played it on spine

Man cata was a long time ago

[cold spoke]

i played it on every boss

[shrewd oriole]

It wasn’t that bad dps wise

Combat was poggers tho

[lone junco]

@shrewd oriole KS is time to take a sip of coffee.

[shrewd oriole]

Exactly

[cold spoke]

it was more dps that combat when geared properly

[strange python]

ive played sub in siege of ogrimmar too

[shrewd oriole]

I loved those 3 seconds

[cold spoke]

with firelands 2p and vial

[shrewd oriole]

@cold spoke I took a break after deathwing so idk

[lone junco]

tbh, I dont care. is the benefit of a pureblood dps. 3 specs 5 or 6 builds. something will be good.

[shrewd oriole]

As soon as we killed it I quit till mop

[strange python]

vial was absurd

[shrewd oriole]

Ds was so shit I got tired of it

[strange python]

at the beginning

it oneshoted everything

in pvp

was nice

[shrewd oriole]

@lone junco 5 different rogue builds is the most we’ve seen in wrath or some shit

Quite like current rogue build diversity

Sure outlaw is trash

But the fact it has multiple builds is cool

[lone junco]

Sin/bleed dfa rtb/snd

I have sets for them all. and its a really cool time

[shrewd oriole]

Idd

Slowly gearing my bleed build

[lone junco]

unlike ret or DH etc.

[strange python]

anyone on alpha? is vendetta on gcd now?

[shrewd oriole]

Ask Jose

[lone junco]

dh will stay strong for a while tho.

[shrewd oriole]

I’m out of the house can’t remember

[keen inlet]

I am, but haven't checked, connor

[strange python]

apparently lots of cooldowns are now on the gcd

[rain pewter]

so

[keen inlet]

frankly having any limited-duration cd on gcd feels kinda lame

[lean hill]

Shadow dance?

[rain pewter]

DFA on sin in m+

what are we thinking?

[lone junco]

i dont like vendetta doing damage on pull. would prefer the option to hammer it at t=-1

[shrewd oriole]

@rain pewter no

Stop

Don’t

[keen inlet]

yeah the vendetta damage is acutally obnoxious

[strange python]

i just miss a bit that spammy sub style from the beginning, bis legs + cof

[lone junco]

that hemo dfa run was pretty nice

[shrewd oriole]

I mean

The guy was 980

He could auto attack and get purple percentile on heroic

[lone junco]

and it was his bottom parse out of like 30 kills

[shrewd oriole]

Lmao

[lean hill]

Everything works at 980 lol

[lone junco]

prob grey 4% ilvl

lol

[rain pewter]

so

[shrewd oriole]

No

[rain pewter]

we going DFA in m+?

[shrewd oriole]

No

[lean hill]

How many people are 980 ilvl though lol

[lone junco]

2

[shrewd oriole]

Like 20

[rain pewter]

Noobe

[lone junco]

wut

[rain pewter]

feelycraft DFA in m+ for me

[shrewd oriole]

No

[rain pewter]

make it work

[shrewd oriole]

No

[lone junco]

I tried it back with shoulder T19

[lean hill]

How did that outlaw dfa go noobe?

[lone junco]

the env doesnt scale properly

[lean hill]

Badly?

[rain pewter]

was that pre or post TB?

[lone junco]

@lean hill glove burst was really high. st was dog shit

[scarlet hawk]

Anyone of you got any interresting macros that you're using during rotation?

[marble hemlock]

tried assa dfa in m+ plenty of times

its shit

[lean hill]

So just for the memes then

[rain pewter]

/kick
/distract
/shadowstep on pull

[lone junco]

outlaw dfa has been done. sin dfa is dog shit

[shrewd oriole]

@scarlet hawk mouse over rupture

[lone junco]

@scarlet hawk vanish/Gnawed Thumb ring

use clique for mouseovers. 👌

or dont. i dont care

[shrewd oriole]

I have mouse over shadow step too

For m+ / shit like aggra

[lone junco]

If i were thinking I would have set up a focus target step

[lost horizon]

Shift modifiers for mouse over 👌

[strange python]

with stormsinger ( 945 ) which ramps 10k mastery .. on peak i did arround 9.4-7m env

ns ;p

[lone junco]

@rain pewter even if you were capped on E, and thought VV was irrelevant due to 4p21, fitting the DFA into the rotation is just slowing down your poison bomb procs from Fok Env fok env.

[strange python]

maybe i should recheck on live 😄

if i hit 10m

[lone junco]

you wish

vendetta vanish Dfa might be like 5m-6m

[lean hill]

Yea the 10mil+ are from like m kin adds or something

[lone junco]

and bracers dont buff env

I could make hemo work before dfa

thats prob not true.

at least with EP/MP you dont have to cast DFA, and can fok env

[strange python]

hemo ?

i knew that spell only from legion beta

[lone junco]

3T bleed,

no one has the vers stack though.

[strange python]

legion beta was fine

with 100% bota proc on pull and the old 400% exsang

[lone junco]

400% exang was nice, cause it made it 8sec in a 10 or 7 sec bota

now you get 16 sec in 10 sec. or 7.

[strange python]

the 100% bota proc was guarantad burst

[shrewd oriole]

Assa on prepatch

Was p PogChamp

[lone junco]

could make a tight opener

could see this.

[warm parcel]

https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1087915-dps-and-hps-cooldowns-on-the-gcd/

its intented

its over bois

uninstall

[marble hemlock]

rip dfa build?

[lone junco]

Thus, we're putting most activated offensive cooldowns, along with On Use offensive trinkets, back on the GCD

[hoary copper]

https://gyazo.com/00d10aed73d5e85049426ef9c66fdfde

[gilded lark]

jesus christ what did they do

[shrewd oriole]

If dance is on the gcd again

Rip dfa

LUL

[lone junco]

They better keep Casted with instant tag behind.

[gilded lark]

^

dfa build will be dead

[shrewd oriole]

Thank fuck

[gilded lark]

that means sub won't be as aids to play 🤔

[shrewd oriole]

Idd

[lone junco]

dfa is not necessary. mosh and mark werent that far behind.

but flash into holy shock is huge.

[gilded lark]

mfd was behind enough that it'll be a good margin behind sin now

[lone junco]

cold instant gcd spells are horrible.

[gilded lark]

holy shock is on gcd

was before lol

[marble hemlock]

gonna be nice

when youre used to pop cds/trinkets at once

and now you gotta ramp them up gcd after gcd

[shrewd oriole]

That’s just cringe

[gilded lark]

how many people have come in asking why their macros dont work so far

i just got out of bed

[marble hemlock]

macros arent working?

[shrewd oriole]

Imagining that makes me physically uncomfortable

[gilded lark]

well some macros wouldn't now no

[marble hemlock]

just imagine

using vanish

gcd

symbols

gcd

shadowdance

gcd

dfa

[gilded lark]

lmao

[marble hemlock]

oh wait, forgot contract+gcd before the dfa

LUL

[lone junco]

apm range 26-65

instead of 26-88

[gilded lark]

so wait is this shit live or just on alpha

haven't logged in yet because fuck wow

[marble hemlock]

alpha

seems to be experimental

so depending on feedback they might go back (no they wont)

[gilded lark]

ah i thought it was live nvm then

that would have been a riot

[marble hemlock]

guess ill have to log into alpha and tell them that they suck 😦

[keen inlet]

Right now I started an outlaw thread on alpha forums, but i haven't seen anybody do sin or sub yet

I don't have time with kitchen reno etc to fully test everything out

[strange python]

sin bleeds = puhhh

psn feels like nothing new but worxx

sub meh ..

and pls remove dispatch from alpha

wed noodle

..

[shrewd oriole]

@keen inlet whatcha put on the outlaw thread so far

[lone junco]

Make CBB reset on targets hit. k thx

pewpew

[strange python]

snd ep outlaw ?`

xD

[lone junco]

good call imo.

will be easy to keep up, and things need to scale

[keen inlet]

Tom - not too much honestly, too early to tell. I'd like restless blades to be more than 1, RTB with LD feels awkward/clumsy as always. Probably gonna try alacrity.

GS with buff is now likely the go-to, but need to experiment

having to talent into LD feels bad (obv)

and I've been playing with KS to see...but even in world quests it doesn't seem to pack much of a punch

[lone junco]

LD vs what?

basically buying that extra dice at the expense of . .

and with shitty AR cdr, gl with that

[keen inlet]

ld vs alac vs snd

ld vs snd obvious, but snd losing LD boost hurts

alacrity tho

idk why it needs to be an outlaw talent

¯_(ツ)_/¯

nobody is excited about taking it (unlike sin, apparently)

[strange python]

any plan for sub don ?

[keen inlet]

New quick Draw is pretty great/feels good, but with the buff to GS I'm worried it'll be overshadowed.

I haven't been sub since early TOS

I've heard rumors that DFA is being redesigned to still do the same thing but without the movement and/or loss of control portion (so basically, removing the bug-ridden parts)

but it's just rumors.

[marble hemlock]

think they want to introduce a new lv100 talent to compete with dfa, no?

or did i misunderstand that

[strange python]

hopefully something good

[marble hemlock]

probably just a retuned finality or goremaws :x

[keen inlet]

tbh most 'new' abilities or shuffles so far have been old traits, talents, skills, or leggo procs

[lone junco]

I would be ok with DFA being like DH Blade Dance. Just a graphic movement.

[strange python]

sub feels murderous slow on alpha : /

[lone junco]

I hope the AoE talents have beef with RB cdr. KS and CBB should be competitive if the cooldown is short enough.

[keen inlet]

Tiri

all the specs I've tried feel slow rn

gear curve, etc

[lone junco]

i think that is by design

[keen inlet]

ofc it is

[lone junco]

arent the numbers tiny

[keen inlet]

if they start out super fast

there's nowhere to grow

[lone junco]

didnt the squish drop to like 2k RT

[keen inlet]

ilvl for template is 180, I think

and leggo items are ...210 or something

[lone junco]

you know i want to play something flexible, but sure as shit, I dont want to learn something new. ugh.

[strange python]

let us go atbt on alpha

[lone junco]

a t b t ?

[keen inlet]

hunter tbh

i feel like hunter's a safe bet

if you want pure dps

[lone junco]

only thing safe for me is leather stacks. all 5 leather. 👌

personal loot bullshit

[strange python]

don

sub has no energetic anymore

[shrewd oriole]

Sub feels

Really bad on alpha

[strange python]

yap

[shrewd oriole]

All specs feel slow as does any char at max level in greens

Fact

But sub

Sub doesn’t just feel slow

Sub goes at the same speed at which newbies assimilate that you don’t rupture inside TB

So pretty fucking slow

[remote oak]

Is it like

A sin rogue that forgot to apply poisons?

Running deeper strat?

[shrewd oriole]

There’s times on st that I can’t evis inside the 16 second NB window

[remote oak]

Oh boy

Sounds fun and engaging

[shrewd oriole]

And it’s not sub gets quicker outside of tier aka Azeroth

Like assa with crit, etc

[strange python]

did actually work skada or something like that to track numbers ?

[shrewd oriole]

Nah

Numbers don’t rly matter yet either way

It’s mostly about feel

[strange python]

i feel find weakness ns vigor ds mos

o.O

11k evis feels ok for me 😄

dfa cant be fun with dmg/burst talents

bah i wont writting

[shrewd oriole]

Shadow dance isn’t on the gcd

Fbm

[strange python]

ns+vigor or ds+sf with mos i can work arround a bit

the fok back talented thing should go in sub and dont sin

[prime void]

Wait

No rupture in TB?

;)

[lone junco]

ugh

i try and play poison one time,

drop 150k

matched my sim. but i outperform exang sim.

[gaunt moat]

one time low. next time slightly better

[lone junco]

SND actually felt better than shoulder bracer.

but I messed that up myself.

lol. rip that time i tried Alacrity on varith too

[fervent beacon]

Soon as I get 3 master ass relics, I will try bleed.

[lone junco]

guess i can pack it up for the Xpac. Time for alt farm.

[torn token]

that purple on command thou

[steep obsidian]

Only 1 100 pfft

[tight meteor]

how are the oranges so low

am i missing something

[steep obsidian]

I can’t get a decent log in ok or ahc cuz i don’t bitch enough about having to do mechs

[fervent beacon]

Are you sorting it on ilvl or bleed spec @lone junco ?

[steep obsidian]

Pk even

[spare cloud]

m+ anyone?

[steep obsidian]

I gonna take some gear off and get all r1s for ilvl 900

[torn token]

@tight meteor thats his ilvl parses

not overall

[tight meteor]

oh right

[vestal wren]

about the gcd changes, i made a short video to showcase

[plain thistle]

my ilvl parses : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/20596906/17#metric=dps&bracket=-1

LUL

I stopped doing heroic tho 😦

rip current parses, can only brag about historical parses, 😂

[torn token]

vendetta gcd

[signal lily]

Do you guys think rogues need a filler spell?

[tight meteor]

arent the builders basically filler spells tho

[civic palm]

No go play Enhancement > _>

[fervent beacon]

That's what envemon is for

[vestal wren]

^^

[signal lily]

Assass is the lowest apm class so I figured they may use a filler

[civic palm]

Now we need an Envemon pokemon > _>

[signal lily]

Or is the downtime enjoyable?

[fervent beacon]

@signal lily definitely the opposite for me as alacrity sin. I'm always spamming env.

[civic palm]

Yeah we know.

[signal lily]

Not arguing btw

Just trying to figure out how these statistics manifest in actual gameplay

[civic palm]

They manifest as fewer buttons pressed 😛

[signal lily]

Well yeah

[civic palm]

But no I don't think that we need more buttons.

Though we're getting Dispatch in BfA.

[signal lily]

I remember dhs feeling quite boring with demon blades

Thought maybe this applies here

[civic palm]

You're skipping some middle-ground there though.

Demon Blades DH had basically no buttons.

[signal lily]

That must be it

[civic palm]

Whereas SIN as it is, has more by default.

[keen inlet]

lol

[civic palm]

So the biggest difference.

Is that our CDs are much much lower.

So instead of hitting 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 4 1 1 2 1 1 4 for THREE MINUTES, we do it for far less time.

and setup for shorter but more frequent burst windows.

[dawn kettle]

yeah you can fuck right off with that graph

unless im not rolling dice

[keen inlet]

?

[civic palm]

?

[signal lily]

Why so aggressive

[civic palm]

Because someone people don't know how to talk to other people.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dawn kettle]

youre right

im sorry

but still

[signal lily]

It's ok

[dawn kettle]

i hate rng specs like that

with a passion

[keen inlet]

Oh

you're not arguing

[dawn kettle]

god no

[keen inlet]

I thought you were saying rtb was lower apm than the graph

haha

was gonna say uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[civic palm]

_>"

[dawn kettle]

nonono

[civic palm]

hahaaaaaaaaaano

[dawn kettle]

i saw the sim chart and saw red

my bad

[keen inlet]

well played RTB is high apm and one of the highest decisions-per-minute (dpm) specs in the game

All that for mediocre dps

bra-vo

[dawn kettle]

that's why i hate it so much

[civic palm]

Bracers also make things awkward from a buttons and pacing perspective a well.

[dawn kettle]

you are literally useless unless you roll well most of the time

atleast i can keep up decently without poison bomb procs

[civic palm]

But anyway;

[dawn kettle]

BACK TO THE CONVERSATION BEFORE RUDE INTERRUPTIONS

lmao

[civic palm]

Due to Assassinations shorter CDs, and more frequent burst windows, what ends up being lower APM is still engaging.

Mostly.

[prime void]

I doubt my apm is even close to that low.

[lone junco]

TBH. If I could compare my performance vs a 962 bracket I would.

[dawn kettle]

i usually do what i can to fill every gcd with something

[civic palm]

Well if it's based on the APL, there's almost no pooling.

[dawn kettle]

sometimes that doesnt always happen though

[signal lily]

Tbh I haven't tried it yet. Currently leveling my rogue 100-110 and wanted to try each spec for 3 lvls after seeing how they're on the opposite sides of the apm chart. The goal being to determine whether I like fast or slow paced gameplay

[civic palm]

So the primary difference.

[lone junco]

My bleed is lower ilvl than equivalent poison.

[civic palm]

Is with one you spam the everliving fuck out of Saber Slash.

Whereas with Assassination Mutilate can generate 2-4 CP and you don't press it as much.

It also costs a lot more.

So you couldn't even if you wanted to.

[dawn kettle]

outlaw would be fine if they could just balance rtb

[civic palm]

I mean they did.

Tried.

Multiple times.

Better now than ever, still not good enough though.

[dawn kettle]

i know, but they cant balance it

not properly

not now, not ever.

they should just drop it while they can

[civic palm]

Not without making things kinda weak.

[dawn kettle]

sure it's fun when you roll 4 or 5

[civic palm]

But letting you have a few of them.

[prime void]

If youre trying to fill gcds as sin you're wrong

Js

[civic palm]

Most of the time.

[lone junco]

I liked rtb with ld. They should have scaled BTE. And allowed a crit multiplier build.

[prime void]

Doesnt really need a clarifier mate

[lone junco]

Mastery is garbage.

[signal lily]

My friend who got me into wow plays nothing but outlaw, like all the time. I think it has its charm for some people

[dawn kettle]

i understand when i can and cant fill

[civic palm]

Yeah sperglords 😛

[prime void]

Spam env in vendetta

[civic palm]

❤

[prime void]

Dont spam anywhere else

[signal lily]

Sperglords?

[civic palm]

YOUSEE... SIN is a thinking man's spec.

Said no one.

Ever.

[signal lily]

Are sin debuffs easier to manage than feral?

[civic palm]

Yeah

[lone junco]

I mean. Bota fish is nice.

[civic palm]

No snapshotting for the most part.

[prime void]

Sin is a thinking mans spec

[civic palm]

Well someone said it.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[prime void]

More so than the majority of specs

[signal lily]

Wouldn't that be sub?

[halcyon pumice]

i love thinking about tiddies while i wait for energy regen

[signal lily]

Lol

[prime void]

Have evergy for dance

[civic palm]

Nah with SUB you just wait around for a while, then jump into the air.

[dawn kettle]

sub definitely requires more planning than sin

[prime void]

No

Wrong

[dawn kettle]

?? it definitely does.

[lone junco]

Arbitrary feelys.

[dawn kettle]

there's not a lot of extra planning

but its there

[civic palm]

Everything is hard for idiots.

[lone junco]

Sub is predictable. Stack your dfa. Then dfa.

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Also please don't turn the boss otherwise I will AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[prime void]

What do you plan for in sub?

[dawn kettle]

^

[civic palm]

DFA windows and Dance CDs

Along with boss mechanics.

[signal lily]

And using goremaw when you don't have 6 combo points 😦

[civic palm]

Messing that up leads to large DPS losses.

Whereas with SIN you can flub it up due to no snapshotting and long DoTs.

[prime void]

Energy for symbols and if you can take advantage of a 10s window. Also, finality and nightblade.

Thats sub

Could go into aoe and dance b4 or after dfa

[civic palm]

Never been about the number of buttons you have to press.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dawn kettle]

have to keep the rhythm of sub or it tanks your dps pretty hard

[lone junco]

TBH the only thing I disliked about st sub is sht.

[prime void]

Where did I say its about buttons?

Playingnaround SHT is veryvannoying

[civic palm]

Terrible really.

[dawn kettle]

21 4pc definitely doesnt feel good either

[lone junco]

High crit sin is best rogue.

[prime void]

21 4pc feels fine

[lone junco]

Period.

[civic palm]

210% mastery or bust > _>

[dawn kettle]

i wish i had 30% crit 😢

[lone junco]

String 8 out of 10 mut crits.

I have 53

[civic palm]

If I could have 300% mastery and 0% crit...

[dawn kettle]

im still super vers stacked from playing sub

[prime void]

Sin you want perfect garrote rupture pandemics. High EP and High ENV uptimer whil fitting 3 env in TB and having perfect kingsbane

[civic palm]

I would kill myself that sounds awful.

[prime void]

I know most of you dont play or think like that

But thats the non feely answer.

[civic palm]

Saying PERFECT is though, as it

is not a realistic demand.

[prime void]

Perfect sub?

[prime void]

Having 4 globals in eveey dance

[civic palm]

etc.

[prime void]

Woohoo

[lone junco]

97% ep is a pretty good rotation.

[prime void]

Perfect isnt the plan

Well fuck me, ill go play mediocrely

[civic palm]

I meeeeeeeean...

[prime void]

Enjoy mediocrity my man

[echo estuary]

is it a "which spec has most skill" discussion?

[civic palm]

Playing perfect should be the plan.

Came from APM discussion.

Somehow.

Someone opened their mouth.

[lone junco]

Plus. Sin is easier to recover from. Dfa is king or bust

[prime void]

^

Not the argument though noobe

[lone junco]

I am not perfect.

[civic palm]

That's the entire point, SUB will lose tons of damage due to bad play, SIN isn't the same way.

[prime void]

Sub is by far more punishing

[lone junco]

^

[prime void]

The arguement was about planning

Not punishment

[civic palm]

Being punished comes from bad planning though.

[prime void]

Not one in the same

Not aleays

Sub punishes you randomlu.

[lone junco]

Ah. If I planned better my tb Kb windows would be a bit better.

[civic palm]

Yeah you can get punished from elsewhere, but if you plan poorly you will always get punished.

Unless you are lucky.

[prime void]

Bad SHT no ES in opener. Parry DFA from africa

[civic palm]

Parry DFA is hyper-triggering.

[dawn kettle]

i still believe you have to plan more for sub than you do sin, simply because of how perfectly you have to play to not get shit on super hard in some fights from mechanics

[civic palm]

Same as getting fucking Garrote and KB parried.

Just... wipe right now.

[lone junco]

Fuck a parry garrote.

I'll just go again and again.

[dawn kettle]

nothing triggers me more than a parried tb in the opener

[lone junco]

You only got like 5 dfa total on first boss tomb.

Each one you fuck up. Drop a color.

[prime void]

What planning does DFA require?

Like im confused

[dawn kettle]

by itself nothing

[prime void]

Explain then

Your point

[lone junco]

Hold dance. Use symbol. Use vanish.

[dawn kettle]

gloves complicates everything

and right now it's the best legendary for sub

that makes it require more planning than sin

[lone junco]

Are you a bleed imposter btw?

[civic palm]

l o l

[dawn kettle]

look

i like the color

[steep obsidian]

burn the heretic

[lone junco]

Want to talk about punishing. Outlaw vanish in a low e condition out of curse.

[dawn kettle]

hnng

[lone junco]

Watch that fucking thing tick away.

Grats on the crit ambush.

[prime void]

I have a feeling you havent played sub at a high level

Either of you

Gloves are very simple to use.

You have x condition with y response. It never changes

[civic palm]

You see Execute, I Execute.

[dusty palm]

quetion

how do you figure out what bosses you have beaten for wakening essences?

[steep obsidian]

/raidinfo

if you want a mod savedinstances is good

wit the added benefit that you can check every alt as well

[civic palm]

this idiot

[steep obsidian]

wut?

[civic palm]

SavedInstances is very good.

[steep obsidian]

yeh

so handy

especially if you are an altoholic

[civic palm]

He's an idiot. Look at that smile. What an idiot.

[prime void]

Whose an idiot lol

[lone junco]

fun engaged.