assassination

[jovial kite]

you hold it for the intermission

and use it with vanish

this is all dependant on ur guilds dps though

and ofc u need boots

[shrewd night]

With some shift I could probably do it, but Im worried about the add if I dont use vanish on them

[jovial kite]

i got greenlight on not using it on adds

i was still like 4th or 5th add damage without vendettaing add

due to double bleeding both adds

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rFgVfDTtvG2McQP6#fight=2&type=auras&source=16

heres the log

the last vanish doesnt show in the buffs section for some reason, but it is cast

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rFgVfDTtvG2McQP6#fight=2&type=auras&source=16&ability=11327

[shrewd night]

Interesting

Ill have to look into that

[jovial kite]

ok i just need you to sign this waiver here

that if u wipe to add dmg

im not at fault

📰

[shrewd night]

If we wipe to add damage I know a few people that can push more than they are

[north basin]

rapture on 4cp or 5 cp? cant find in guide

[quick jasper]

hi guys , getting back to playing some rogue and wonder what kinds of legs ppl usually go for in M+?

[jovial kite]

you can rupture at 4cp

[sharp viper]

wipe to literally the add dmg of the big adds or bcz big adds to slow and small adds are being handled too slow as well?

[jovial kite]

back during en i think the change came that your damage from rupture is static no matter how many cp you spend

[sharp viper]

correct

[shrewd night]

Duration is the only thing changing

[zealous dew]

M+ use shoulder/bracers for trash

[jovial kite]

i use shoulder cloak

and i vanish into shoulder bracer

[zealous dew]

😄

[wooden schooner]

Since we ideally wish have a maximum uptime of the envenom buff during focus blade and sot during kingsbane , I wonder if it's better to delay toxic blade and kingsbane in order to refresh rupture ( preferred with 4,9 seconds ) in order not to disturb the maximum uptime if envenom), now I wonder if we have to refresh garrote and it's quite energy demanding , refresh or refresh after ?

[jovial kite]

https://gyazo.com/67bf8567be98142e77491a2d785a2ab0
https://gyazo.com/31b791a5a5438d4acc67a139f17874ea

its legit

if you just do it

@zealous dew

[shrewd night]

None of those people in that group are finnish

[jovial kite]

🤔

[shrewd night]

somethingsomethingLAINEN

[wooden schooner]

Shoulder and bracers especially on wraith of ashara ( absolutely during a tyrannical week )

[jovial kite]

what stops you from changing legendaries pull to pull? 🤔

[shrewd night]

Takes time man

Like SECONDS

[jovial kite]

something something itemsets

macros something

shift mod vanish into itemset change from cloak to bracer

hard game

even more relevant macro as a night elf

[sharp viper]

you got vanish and an equipment set macroed? sounds really smart 😮

[jovial kite]

yeah

[quick jasper]

so since I have bracers , cloak , and shoulders Im fine with legs for the moment ? 😄

[jovial kite]

yeah

[stark heart]

@jovial kite what? but I thought there is one BiS set for Assa

[sharp viper]

and you can swap umbrawl with another trinket

[stark heart]

🤔

[jovial kite]

[quick jasper]

thx ^^

[zealous dew]

@jovial kite does the tank pull every 2h to build up stacks ?

ok for first pull at 30

[jovial kite]

no?

[zealous dew]

but after ?

[jovial kite]

you choose the packs you change the set

[zealous dew]

yeah but need time to build up some stacks and at 2 mobs you fok already so no time to build in fight

[jovial kite]

say we are at boss

vanish comes up for next pack, next pack has 3 mobs, and the pack after that has 6 mobs

i dont fok in the first pack, i dont vanish in the first pack

i use it on the next pack

just an example

[zealous dew]

kk

interesting source of dmg though

usually my envenom is very close to DP

with PB being the variable

[jovial kite]

i mean this was in teeming week

so cloak gains way more value

[zealous dew]

makes sense

i do run 3x PK though so my best interest is to fok

[jovial kite]

with ns, each 30 stack fok hits for 2.5-3.5m depending if pot and buffs

[gilded lark]

don't you just love when legendaries work against traits

[zealous dew]

hehe

but his idea is not bad on those packs like crabs in eoa

where bracers have no value

[jovial kite]

crabs in eoa, literally 50% of packs in cathedral

lower

seat

[sharp viper]

bracers have no value?

[zealous dew]

mobs have like 3m hp

and die in 2 gcd

[sharp viper]

well time to do higher keys than +2 then

[quick ice]

Execute exists for 0.6sec

[gilded lark]

[sharp viper]

a bracers enhanced pb on big packs is very juicy

[jovial kite]

imo bracers are generally overvalued

in m+

first of all because sin is a pretty meh pick in the meta

and the pulls where you need the dmg

the adds are gonna die

[zealous dew]

can still do good, not the best pick aye

[jovial kite]

yeah no doubt

[sharp viper]

sin is just not consistent and has more rampup time compared to a sub rogue

[jovial kite]

yep.. hence a meh pick

[sharp viper]

i enjoy it way more in eoa f.e.

cause fuck dfa on the wrath

[wooden schooner]

Dfa on the wrath takes a few tries of practice.

[sharp viper]

it is just insanely annoying to dfa on that boss, you need to watch your spot, distance to boss, party members in range for shs and such

[wooden schooner]

@sharp viper vae mainly make sure to have a shs macro on a tank and it's fine. Sometimes what we did on 22/23 eith tyrannical is allow the warlock to port me back in as a mini playback show assa rogue = easy money

But I totally agree on the difficult and several situational disadvantages of playing subtlety on the last boss.

[sharp viper]

by that you mean you had a pending summon from the lock?

[jovial kite]

you can switch specs

you play sub and hs before last boss

[sharp viper]

oh right, didnt think of that for a second

[zealous dew]

they should really fix that tbh

port in port out

[magic zenith]

What's your best fight in m abt?

[sharp viper]

best as in most fun or most dps?

[magic zenith]

both

[zealous dew]

bench is the best for me

logging ts and listening to guild mates insulting eachother

progressing on farm bosses

[sharp viper]

most fun is probably argus

[gilded lark]

Best raid boss is no raid boss

[midnight latch]

@jovial kite

[jovial kite]

@midnight latch

[north basin]

what i need to do to increase poison bomb proccs?

[zealous dew]

use more finishers

[midnight latch]

buy my guide on pbs
24,99$

[north basin]

mutilate doesnt procc it?

[sharp viper]

what? no. read the tooltip for bag of tricks

[north basin]

oh ye rupture and envenom

so if i wana maxx poison bomb damage i need to do as many ruptures and envenoms during poison blade+ vendeta as possible?

[sharp viper]

well yes although you don't want to overwrite rupture before pandemic applies, i'd advice you to read the guide in the 📌

[hazy flame]

You might want to if its going to finish during tb

[shrewd oriole]

Idd but if it’s gonna end during Tb it’s so very close to pandemic it’s not a big loss

https://gyazo.com/3d052b81d4a41c3cc0df025b638cc683

Switching to adds btw

[hazy flame]

Fk adds

[shrewd oriole]

Fok then yeah

That’s what I did

[hazy flame]

Ranged nuke the ones closer to the boss and expect me to run to the other side LUL

[shrewd oriole]

Yep LUL

[gilded lark]

[sudden ocean]

4pc w/empty crown sims higher than shoulders without 4pc

I want to die

[shrewd night]

Why would you not wear 4pc

[sudden ocean]

I am

just the cape literally does NOT exist

[shrewd night]

So uh

[hazy flame]

Why cape and not head?

[shrewd night]

Then I dont get the statement about wanting to die because 4pc sims higher

[strange python]

Guys I have question I found no answers to

When do I switch to rupture the other target on multitarget fights?

Shivarra best example

[shrewd night]

wat

[strange python]

Do I just finish vendetta rotation

and then shadowstep rupture the other?

There are 2 targets I want to keep rupture up on

[shrewd night]

Doublerupturing is only worth if you dont lose uptime doing it imo anyways

[strange python]

When do I go over to the other, do I finish the opener on the first, or immediately after rupturing first

[shrewd oriole]

@shrewd night don’t really lose uptime on coven if they are properly positioned

I multi rupture / fok on coven

[shrewd night]

Thats the keypart tho

IF they are properly positioned

[shrewd oriole]

Oh yeah for sure

It’s the only fight where I multi dot personally

[shrewd night]

Ill do it on storms if I have to move personally, but otherwise nah

[magic zenith]

Do you bother rupturing adds on HC?

[shrewd oriole]

I don’t rupture adds on M

@shrewd night sounds like your guild doesn’t 3 tank

Infidels

[shrewd night]

We do, but tanks in africa mayne

[shrewd oriole]

Shit guild geequit

I was close to a top 10 on that fight last night

Only got 20

Only 7% pb só wasn’t even a particularly good pull

[gaunt moat]

I'm reading some casual players feedback on no master loot
they seem to really like that idea.
furthermore, they are being toxic towards people who want master loot.

i'm not a fan of split runs at all, but it's hard to justify this.

[shrewd oriole]

No masterloot is garbage

There’s no reason for it

[shrewd night]

Get bluelogs while doing our shit, would probably orange if I could fok

[shrewd oriole]

Fuck blizzard

Removing tier I can get behind

[gaunt moat]

valuable commentary tom...

[shrewd oriole]

But removing the option to ML is so dumb

[shrewd night]

My opinion on masterlooting changes as often as the masterlooter changes tbh.

[shrewd oriole]

You’ve already made pugs for PL

That was a welcome change

[shrewd night]

Some MLs are fair, others are cunts.

[shrewd oriole]

Let guilds do loot in whatever way they want to

[shrewd night]

They are like a box of chocolate

You never know what you get

[shrewd oriole]

That’s a case of

Bad ML not a bad system per se

Our ML is p good

But people are largely willing to pass up on gear if it’s better for someone else

[shrewd night]

The only logical reason to remove ML altogether is because the system is abused

[shrewd oriole]

Cuz everyone has two brain cells

So idk

[shrewd night]

🤷

[shrewd oriole]

“Abused”

[gaunt moat]

the thing is WoW is based on guild organization, so you shouldn't have a different master looter, you know?

[shrewd oriole]

Abused by the 1% who does splits

This ruins ML for everyone

Not just those who do splits

[magic zenith]

Maybe leave masterloot in mythic

[shrewd oriole]

And guilds lkke method are just gonna have multiple of the same class

[wild ledge]

As if it will stop them maximising loot in another way. Doing multiple characters of the same class for wf/tf/trading etc. They will find a way around it

[shrewd night]

Do I like ML? Yes.
Will I get pissed if Random McFuckersen gets a high titanforge that I KNOW Id get if we still had ML? You bet your ass I would.

[gaunt moat]

my issue is more about guild organization

less about person X is lucky and i'm not

[shrewd night]

'Oh btw, since you havent gotten titanforging in all slots like McFuckersen you are benched until further notice'

[wild ledge]

Well they punish the 99% for the 1%, who will get around the restrictions in some way anyway. Removing choice is never good. Why is it better to not have both options regardless of your opinions on either.

[drifting crypt]

if items are still tradeable, nothing will change in progression/ "heroicsplits"

you can still have your lootcouncil assigne items

[shrewd night]

No you cant

[magic zenith]

Can't trade upgrades

[shrewd night]

^

[shrewd oriole]

Can’t trade ilvl upgrades so

[drifting crypt]

did he say that in the q&a this way?

cause then i missed it

[shrewd oriole]

It’s the way PL works...?

[warm parcel]

Thats how its always been

[magic zenith]

It's that way now

[warm parcel]

🤔

[shrewd night]

[drifting crypt]

you can trade ALL items at the moment

[magic zenith]

no

[shrewd night]

No.

[drifting crypt]

even if they are highest

[gaunt moat]

no you can't

[shrewd night]

No.

[shrewd oriole]

Lma

This is one of those

Vendetta snapshots rupture moments

[gaunt moat]

@drifting crypt you've ever played with personal loot?

[lethal heart]

monkaS

[shrewd night]

He needs his whitename back tbh

[drifting crypt]

yes, every week in our mainraid since we are done with progress

[shrewd oriole]

You can’t trade ilvl upgrades

Thing is

Leggos are usually 1000

[drifting crypt]

we have traded everything, so its either that legos are counted

[shrewd oriole]

So if you have a leggo in the slot that you got an ilvl upgrade on, you can still trade it (even if you aren’t using the leggo)

[drifting crypt]

or you can actually trade everything

[shrewd oriole]

Leggos are counted

[shrewd night]

I swear to fucking christ

[magic zenith]

White name pride.

[wild ledge]

You can’t trade everything, see how everyone is in agreement. And yes Leggos count which why you might think the way you do

[shrewd oriole]

🤔 is everyone wrong but me 🤔

[shrewd night]

or maybe Im wrong

[shrewd oriole]

Wow nice looking to the left feelsbadman

Very aesthetic copy pasta material

I haven’t heard a single person be happy about the PL change

Maybe if I ask the casuals

@hoary copper are you happy about removing master loot

[keen inlet]

If you think it's about making players happy

well.

I'm not going to finish that sentence.

🙃

[stark heart]

[shrewd oriole]

Please do

I’m curious

[shrewd oriole]

Who is the change for?

[shrewd night]

The casuals

[lone junco]

they are pissed, how fast the mythic content is being cleared.

[shrewd night]

That dont get loot from ML

Or something

[shrewd oriole]

^

[shrewd night]

[lone junco]

they are literally trying to fuck your face

[shrewd oriole]

And to discontinue mythic splits

[gaunt moat]

@shrewd oriole that's what i started with
the response from casual players is overwhelmingly in favor of removing ML
so far that they are toxic towards people who think otherwise.

[shrewd oriole]

That’s what I’m saying

[lone junco]

fuck splits..

Gear will go all over the place

[shrewd oriole]

Jose is saying it’s not about making casuals happy

[lone junco]

shit you dont want. shit you dont need.

[shrewd oriole]

It clearly is lmao

[lone junco]

trinkets that are trash

[stark heart]

I mean if they not force it in mythic it's fine

[shrewd night]

Im fine with removing splits from heroic, but uh.. Whats the point in removing ML from mythic.

[lone junco]

it will slow it down

[stark heart]

would kill splits

[shrewd oriole]

Yeah

Keep ML in N

M*

[lone junco]

not just splits. Personal will push loot in all the wrong places. They are just "fixing" the curve

[shrewd oriole]

@lone junco if they content to be cleared slower then don’t make stupid fucking raids

Emerald nightmare? Yeah blame splits

[shrewd night]

Oh shit, your healers got loot but your dps didnt? GL getting W1 now lads

[shrewd oriole]

This tier? Yeah blame splits

^

[stark heart]

I honestly expect m+ to play bigger part in itemization process next expansion

[lone junco]

^

[shrewd night]

Dude, fuck m+ with a fork

[stark heart]

so I think PL in heroic and below would be fine

[shrewd oriole]

If shit is all PL then we HAVE to run m+

[shrewd night]

The m+ loot is capped below 20 ilevels below mythic tier anyways

So who gives a fuck

[shrewd oriole]

It’s only 5 ilvls below heroic

[stark heart]

why compare it to mythic?

[lone junco]

im not even talking splits. PL will not prioiritieze stat weights or good things, Just funnel leather you dont want. over and over and over.

[shrewd oriole]

And you do a lot of progress in heroic gear

Plus

[keen inlet]

The change isn't for casuals. It's not for hardcores.

The shift to personal loot is to make loot as "foolproof" as possible. Fewer loot disputes, etc. On the high end, it makes splits even more inconvenient.

[shrewd oriole]

Titanforging

[stark heart]

if you go into mythic raiding you need m+ only to prepare for it

and thus it's fine

[keen inlet]

The change is for the developers, and for the CSR team.

[stark heart]

if I would be able to farm m+ instead of splits I am all for it

[lone junco]

if they double drop rates of PL over ML it wont be that bad.

[stark heart]

I'd only be angery if they force it on mythic raiding

[gaunt moat]

@keen inlet what you described just now sounds like it's 100% in favor of casuals

[shrewd oriole]

Who goes to the CSR team because their ml gave the item to someone else

Lmao

[keen inlet]

And, as Lorentz said, it's largely moot without tier or relics.
Furthermore, they're talking about fixing itemization, which should take some idiosyncratic prioritization off of jewelry

[shrewd oriole]

How is it moot

Azeite is basically tier

Azerite*

Weapons are still a thing

[lone junco]

we use a loot system that prioitizes attendance PL dumpsters that

[shrewd oriole]

Trinkets are p much te biggest dps increase outside of tier

[stark heart]

you keep forgetting about m+

[lone junco]

grats wep to the alt

[gaunt moat]

trinkets are still usually a big factor as well
like tom said, weapons as well

[keen inlet]

If ilvl is truly an upgrade, then upgrade will be upgrade, having it non-tradable won't be an issue either.

Trinkets, granted, are an issue.

[shrewd oriole]

But what If it’s a bigger upgrade for someone else

[keen inlet]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

RNG is rng

[lone junco]

we just wont bring cauals. or non core

[shrewd oriole]

What if the guy who has a 965 belt gets a 970 but the guy who has a 945 doesn’t get any belt lmao

[lone junco]

gotta keep loot inside the fire.

[shrewd oriole]

“Rng is rng”

[gaunt moat]

@keen inlet you're ignoring my point though
it kills a huge part of guild organization structure.

[shrewd oriole]

I’m sorry but that response is a big 🥄

[lone junco]

rewards

[keen inlet]

I think it de-emphasizes loot

[shrewd oriole]

It’s unnecessary rng

[stark heart]

I mean how your tier progression would look like - farm dungeons, prepare for mythic raiding, got clear heroic and maybe get something useful and then enter appropriate level of difficulty. Then you farm mythic raid till next one opens and you gear in new raid

[shrewd oriole]

But it’s a fuckig mmo

[stark heart]

what is so bad about it?

[shrewd oriole]

Loot is the center of MMOs

[lone junco]

Yeah, and they are slowing you down

[shrewd oriole]

Just making it frustrating

[stark heart]

yes, it's another layer of rng. Not a pretty solution

but a solution

[lone junco]

thats the point.

[keen inlet]

This would be better in #off-topic, incidentally

but w/e

[warm parcel]

As I said to flowi

If it can kill splits Im all for it

Just doubtful

[gaunt moat]

can you imagine being in a raid with Tom. and he gets lucky with loot after he's been missing for half the raids and being a shit in general.
but then they take him cause he has better gear

[lone junco]

4 rogues

[shrewd oriole]

Wowowowowo notter

I don’t miss raids cmon

[stark heart]

@gaunt moat that last bit I don't believe at all

[warm parcel]

Thats a guild problem

Not player problem

[lone junco]

bis loot to shitter attendance.

grats

[keen inlet]

The solution there is--don't bring Tom in the first place?

[warm parcel]

Wed never pick tom over another even if he had better gear

[keen inlet]

😉

[warm parcel]

lol

[stark heart]

you have to get so unlucky and him get lucky for Tom to be taken over you

it's like

never

[keen inlet]

Guild leadership is more than loot

[lone junco]

Um

[keen inlet]

and I think that's part of this change

[lone junco]

its mostly loot management

[shrewd oriole]

Y’all say this

Just wait until I’m 400 ilvl as notter is 380

[lone junco]

loot reward is the carrot.

[shrewd oriole]

LUL

[keen inlet]

Disagree.

If loot is a player's motivation you won't have them for the long haul.

[stark heart]

@warm parcel I doubt it would kill splits for your level

[keen inlet]

They'll go where the loot is.

[shrewd oriole]

@keen inlet loot is my motivation

[keen inlet]

It's been that way since Vanilla.

[shrewd oriole]

I’ve been playing since tbc and hardly ever guild change

[keen inlet]

Reached an all-time high in BC, because of toxic attunements etc

[lone junco]

but the potential for main spec loot is still there.

[shrewd oriole]

But I’ll be damned if loot isn’t what I enjoy most

[lone junco]

over scrubs cause you are next. or ML or controlled system

[shrewd oriole]

Loot is ducking fun

Getting loot, doing more dps

That’s the reason I play the damn game

[magic zenith]

Dopamine drip

[lone junco]

I guarantee if i carry another shitter run and i dont get the 965 SSF ill rip someones eyes out

[magic zenith]

wtf is this blue name

[keen inlet]

So...loot management is guild management.

Removing loot management...shouldn't guild management be far easier?

[lone junco]

wuuut

ZERO attendance reward

[keen inlet]

I don't follow the logic.

[shrewd oriole]

Oh it’s def easier for the guy doing the ML

[gaunt moat]

Jose i agree it's not black and white.
but you can't ignore it's also a part of the motivation to play. in a certain guild.

for example:
i was an appreciated member in my guild cause i played well.
i got priority in loot because of that.
this motivated me to keep being in that guild where i felt appreciated and rewarded.

[warm parcel]

Ye so for us its just a hassle

Cause now well run 4 rogs

[keen inlet]

Your attendance reward is to have a chance at the loot with people you (hopefully) like

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[midnight latch]

@warm parcel why is ur name Iceblock mage cause u surely dont know how to use it

[warm parcel]

fake @midnight latch spotted

[gaunt moat]

wtf is naya doing here

[shrewd oriole]

how is that a better for the casuals Jose

[midnight latch]

its the real

trust

[warm parcel]

can we ban people for impersonating

[shrewd oriole]

How is that not* better for the casuals Jose

[lone junco]

bullshit. PL I run 4 clears get nothing useful. 1 shitter comes as a casual gets TF trinket and a Wep

gtfo

[shrewd oriole]

Yeah I’d kms if that happened noobe tbh

[lone junco]

PL is for pugs only

GULD LOOT was plenty

[keen inlet]

Happens all the time for my raid.

Life goes on

[lone junco]

nah.

[shrewd oriole]

But

You

Don’t

Care

[keen inlet]

I do, just at a different level from you.

[shrewd oriole]

You hardly raid, you don’t push your character to the limit

[lone junco]

Guild loot changed master loot enough. we sever combined for that reason

[keen inlet]

"hardly raid"

[shrewd oriole]

It’s not why you play the game

[keen inlet]

Tom

[shrewd night]

Btw Don, we have to sit you for this entire tier because your classmate was lucky with gear. Nice knowing you, bye btw.

[gaunt moat]

@keen inlet i mean... even first graders get a golden star for good performance.
why do they get it?
cause it's motivating.

[keen inlet]

Just shut up.

Alright?

[shrewd oriole]

Lmao

No

[keen inlet]

You don't know me

[shrewd oriole]

You gonna tell me you raid?

[vernal adder]

[keen inlet]

You don't know what I do, how I play, what I enjoy.

[shrewd oriole]

I don’t really care

You clearly don’t care about gear

This change isn’t impactful for you

🤷

[gaunt moat]

what..

[midnight latch]

dude giving out stuff for mandatory performance is the aids of our educational system

[gaunt moat]

does he ever think before he talks?

[midnight latch]

fuckin 8 place trophy

like get out with that shit

[shrewd oriole]

Lmao

How am I not thinking

[arctic venture]

this is funny hehe

[shrewd oriole]

He just said he doesn’t care about loot

[gaunt moat]

@midnight latch well i meant more like getting gold star if you're doing well.. not as a participation award...

[shrewd night]

Tbf, I like ML because I know there is INTENT and REASON behind giving someone else gear over me. Getting rid of that and only giving out loot based on LUCK is terrible fucking design.

[keen inlet]

I don't agree with the change to PL, incidentally. But I see their rationale for it, and I think it is, legitimately, an issue with two viable sides of debate.

[shrewd oriole]

Guilds tend to give prio for example to people that will be in for the following bosses

[magic zenith]

Again, just limit the change to everything except for mythic raids

[shrewd oriole]

Intent, decision making

[magic zenith]

Let guilds do ML in mythic

[lone junco]

at least with ML our main tank, can sit on loot prio, and get an upgrade eventually when it drops. Cause 900 pieces of trash between then and now are just DE fodder

[shrewd oriole]

This just strips us of more control

Sometimes I don’t know if I’m playing wow or an online casino

[magic zenith]

The splits those guilds are doing are heroic yeah?

[shrewd oriole]

Yeah

[keen inlet]

The fact that I seem incapable of intelligently laying out what I'm trying to argue (devil's advocate in this scenario) doesn't mean there isn't a solid argument. It just means I'm not doing a good job defending it. Logical fallacies.

[lone junco]

Let guilds do ML in mythic

[magic zenith]

So there you go.

[shrewd oriole]

Jose, I get why they did the change

[stark heart]

they haven't changed anything yet

btw

[shrewd night]

Doesnt making it less r... DUMB.

[shrewd oriole]

At least to me, you’re conveying perfectly why they did it

But me knowing why they did doesn’t make me agree with it

[steep obsidian]

so is ploot a thing even in mythic in bfa?

[lone junco]

it is fine for D3 cause it is farm game over and over. worthless shit in the trash. but Raid bosses are not personal effort. team effort shouldnt feed trash to one class.

[shrewd oriole]

I want loot, I play exclusively for loot. There is nothing in this game that I enjoy apart from killing bosses and getting loot

[lone junco]

imagine a 1000 TF crit ring going to a warrior

[shrewd oriole]

So I feel sad that they are doing a change that negatively impact my experience

[lone junco]

or ver to a DH. they would just shrug and delete it

[shrewd oriole]

Yeah

We hadn’t even discussed gear

Imagine a haste mastery ring goes to the rogue

[lone junco]

its not even about splits for me. its just bad

[shrewd oriole]

The warrior in the back /wrists

Imagine trinkets

[vernal adder]

imagine dragons

[lone junco]

I mean a 1000 Scourge for me is going in the bank

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shrewd oriole]

I am glad we are in agreement about this noobe

[lone junco]

ret slits his wrists

ive been raid lead for 400/days

its nothing new.

since Kara1.

[vernal adder]

I hope all gear stats are rng and master looter is gone, dont go half way go full retard

[shrewd oriole]

I wouldn’t speak on vent in tbc cuz I told guild I was 18

But I was like 10

LUL

[lone junco]

you were 10

lol

we had a 10yro named "Spongebob"

played a warrior

[shrewd oriole]

Ahaha

I was named skyline

Cringe fucking name

[shrewd night]

Skyline

[vernal adder]

nissan skyline

[shrewd night]

Why the fuck is that a name I remember

[lone junco]

cause he was a shitter hunter from BC that annoyed you

[shrewd oriole]

Haven’t used it since cata

In cats I went by as Mathilda

Mathila*

[vernal adder]

and now you are jesus from portugal

[shrewd oriole]

Until legion when I changed to just tom

[lone junco]

JustTomm

[shrewd oriole]

JustWaiTom

[hazy flame]

Did they say anything about removing ML?

[shrewd oriole]

@keen inlet I didn’t mean to offend you when I said you didn’t raid, I’m sorry

[shrewd night]

Too late, he gone bruh

[hazy flame]

Cant watch the vod just read mmo champ

[lone junco]

we dont use Loot Council, but it doesnt mean our system is less valid. This is not a singular effort. raid loot belongs to raid.

esp the shitter casual.

will make recruitment weird.

[hazy flame]

Fuck the shitter casual

[shrewd oriole]

Nah

[lone junco]

bring them in they are at 40% dps of mains. so you feed them shit gear. saving bis for main upgrades

that is how it works

[shrewd oriole]

The shifter casuals are what funds your game

[shrewd night]

hi btw, Im only 5/14heroic applying to a 7/14 mythic, but uh.. I have 40 ilevels above everyone else of your applicants, so pick me pls

[shrewd oriole]

Without the shitter casuals this game would be diablo

Aka no content

Gotta keep the casuals happy as well but

[lone junco]

@shrewd night lol I HAVE HIGH ILVL so i can pass my gear

[shrewd oriole]

I don’t think this is the way to do that

[hazy flame]

Sure but that doesnt mean you should hand them gear like its nothing

[lone junco]

we give them the DE gear

[shrewd oriole]

You’re not handing them gear

[lone junco]

its way way better than what they have

[cold spoke]

people crying over changes that are not even proposed

[shrewd oriole]

If they pug they’re already handed gear

[cold spoke]

classic 4Head

[steep obsidian]

what?

[shrewd oriole]

I mean

That’s just a dumb comment

[lone junco]

@cold spoke things happen like this all the time. we were pissed about Master loot turning to Guild loot.

[shrewd oriole]

If they talk about it it’s usually been thought over for a while

[shrewd night]

^

[shrewd oriole]

It’s not a thing she thought about in the spur of the moment

“Lmao what if we removed ML”

[lone junco]

so we paid for all the server transfers.

[cold spoke]

Master loot turning to guild loot

[shrewd oriole]

Removing master lot is what he means

[lone junco]

No.

[shrewd oriole]

And making it just PL

[lone junco]

before

it was Master Loot

[vernal adder]

maybe they remove the thing if its higher ilvl it gets bop¨

[steep obsidian]

i just see people being pressured to trade loot they get to someone who its better for in guilds to be honest

[cold spoke]

noone said anything in the interview about removing master looter

[lone junco]

now you cant even use ML unless it is like 70% guild

so we server transferred to comply

[shrewd oriole]

I don’t mind the 70% change

[lone junco]

you dont, i did

[cold spoke]

why would you even use ml in a heroic

[shrewd oriole]

I scammed too many people in heroic runs

[lone junco]

nonya fucking business

[shrewd oriole]

Out of mounts and gear over the years

[lone junco]

our loot, our system

[shrewd oriole]

So I get the change

[lone junco]

guild loot is complied. now rip the ML. and it is just a fucking ffa.

[cold spoke]

we dont even use ml in heroic for altruns in the guild /shrug

[lone junco]

grats on bis trash. or trash bis

YOU dont

[shrewd oriole]

Alt runs btw

[cold spoke]

yeah because why would you use it

[lone junco]

same reason you do in mythic

[shrewd night]

'I dont use it, so clearly noone else does'

[shrewd oriole]

🤔

[cold spoke]

oh mythic is completly different story

[shrewd night]

Oh

[lone junco]

getfo with that shit.

[shrewd night]

[shrewd oriole]

Oh

[vernal adder]

just give me all the loot, k

[shrewd oriole]

It’s almost as if we were

Mainly talking about mythic

LUL

[vernal adder]

this wasnt about lfr?

[cold spoke]

can you quote anyone saying this change concerns mythic raiding

[shrewd night]

Guess Haydes guild doesnt use heroic runs to prepare for mythic progress

'why would you use ml in heroic '

[lone junco]

they literall mentioned shitting on splits

[cold spoke]

yeah fuck splits lol

cancer

[vernal adder]

I cant do a split, too stiff

[lone junco]

they are doing this because mythic progression race ends too quickly

[shrewd oriole]

LMAO

[lone junco]

yall breaking their hard content too quickly

grats

[shrewd oriole]

content is too easy

[lone junco]

not without the ilvl

grats

[vernal adder]

who cares about the 0,5%

[shrewd oriole]

More like 0.01

[vernal adder]

I sure dont, fuck em

[shrewd night]

@lone junco 'we have used to balance around attainable itemlevel before, and now we have to reduce the balance to correct this new change.'

[lone junco]

splits are what 200 raiders out of 200k

[cold spoke]

you'd have to take a look from a not complete loot whore perspective that raids only for loot

[shrewd night]

Literally nothing changes

[shrewd oriole]

Why do you raid besides killing bosses and getting loot

[lone junco]

i sure dont.

[cold spoke]

i like the game

[lone junco]

i dont

thx tom

[turbid harbor]

I raid because I like my guild, lots of people quit after Argus died

[shrewd oriole]

I raid cuz raiding offers the best loot and the best bosses

[hoary copper]

That was a random tag

[shrewd oriole]

I like my guild too

But I like them better when we are playing poe together

[lone junco]

im top melee slot on our loot sytem. so when a SSF socket drops, i get it.

[shrewd oriole]

Not when we are wiping 300 times to argus

[shrewd night]

If you like the game, why arent you happy in lfr/normal/heroic 🤷

[cold spoke]

i bet youre getting mad when someone other than you gets piece of loot or you see someone with hc gear 970+ 😄

doesnt matter im over it

[north basin]

what ssf is?

[hoary copper]

Idk I can see the good and bad of it. Bad because you cant funnel loot to those that need it but good because now people can't just funnel all gear to the same people

[lone junco]

so fucking what

[turbid harbor]

We 1 shot Argus this week and we had loads of people die to stupid shit

[lone junco]

it is your guild system. raid loot.

[shrewd oriole]

Classic

[lone junco]

dont like it set it to personl

[cold spoke]

master looter in heroic raid is irrelevant because heroic difficulty is irrelevant on its own

[turbid harbor]

The content is a joke now

[lone junco]

dont like it set it to group and dice/coin

[turbid harbor]

So I raid for fun

[cold spoke]

the fact that you have to play an alt to split because everyone does splits is stupid

[hoary copper]

Heroic is only irrelevant to those who mythic raids but not everyone mythic raids

[north basin]

for pro players masterloot better. coz they get all fancy titanforge gear. for average joes better personal loot xD

[cold spoke]

at this point even rank 300 guild split because why not

[shrewd night]

Heroic is relevant until all your members have their preferred fourpiece tho

🤷

[wide niche]

Heroic is irrelevant to nobody.

[turbid oxide]

Maybe if your in a pug personal is better

[lone junco]

and if your guild WANTS to PL

[turbid oxide]

Other than that nearly every other loot system is better for the raid if done properly

[wide niche]

It's a source of Titanforges, it's just up to the guild to decide if the gamble is worth the time invested that could be put toward progression.

[lone junco]

fine by me

[shrewd oriole]

I strongly agree with @turbid oxide

[north basin]

master loot in hc runs good for long term high dps raiders. they get 980 hc titanforge loot with higher chance xD

[cold spoke]

thats just not true, if youre fishing for tfs only, personal loot should give you more pieces of loot

unless you have at least 30-40 people in the raid

[lone junco]

we have done a number of systems, and i guaranteed FORCED PL is garbage

[wide niche]

But it makes the loot less targeted, making each individual TF less efficiently allocated.

[shrewd night]

You cant trade titanforges if they are higher than what you have tho

Are you high or something

[shrewd oriole]

[lone junco]

I only want a few pieces.

[turbid oxide]

If you are fishing for tfs with personal you are doing it wrong

[lone junco]

are you kidding. Im 2p4p

[wide niche]

When gearing a guild, the proper allocation of loot is paramount.

[lone junco]

I promise to DE all the offpeices

[turbid harbor]

Not having a legendary for every slot might make it hard to trade titanforges next expac

[lone junco]

complete shit

[turbid oxide]

What's a sin rogue gonna do with a 980 haste ring that he can't trade?

[turbid harbor]

You trade it

[wide niche]

Well, sin is nonviable with less than 50% haste

[turbid harbor]

Because you can trade it

[wide niche]

so that's a step in the right direction

[cold spoke]

implying that haste is bad

[lone junco]

not trading if it is an ilvl upgrade?

[cold spoke]

i guess we have stat weights for new xpac alrdy

[lone junco]

same applies.

[turbid harbor]

If you haven’t looted a legendary ring by now then idk

[turbid oxide]

It's just an example even if it's not technically a perfect one my point still stands

[lone junco]

just remove 2ndary. and just make it Agi

agi ? is it more?

ok

[cold spoke]

it doesnt because you have no idea how it will be in bfa loot wise

[turbid harbor]

Yea that’s why I said next expac

In this example you don’t trade this ring, bt you do trade the next one

[turbid oxide]

I doubt we will ever have perfect secondaries

[cold spoke]

they didnt even implement the change anywhere, they just mentioned it and everyone lose their minds

[turbid oxide]

If Its not haste that you throw away it will be something else

[lone junco]

Thats the pont

[shrewd oriole]

They don’t mention things out of the blue

[wide niche]

Trading the next one certainly sounds like loot inefficiency to me 🤔

[shrewd oriole]

If they mentioned it they are thinking about doing it

[lone junco]

if you dont screech at them, they wont listen

[cold spoke]

youre not gonna change their minds with autistic screeching tho

[shrewd oriole]

The a word

[turbid harbor]

Probably trying to gauge a reaction by subtly mentioning it

[lone junco]

if the PL drop rate is literally double, i would probably do it.

[wide niche]

Pretty sure autistic screeching is the only thing that could stop it

[cold spoke]

wish we had a testing platform like alpha in this game

god bless

[lone junco]

"logical and reasonable response"

/fart

[shrewd night]

Because we are pretty fucking unreasonable wanting control over the loot we earn amirite

[wide niche]

You're not going to change Blizzard's mind via quiet, well thought out feedback in a small thread by only high end raiders.

[turbid harbor]

I’d be up for it at current drop rates

[narrow comet]

Yeah f amazing personal loot, with my rng i would get fuck all and if it happens it be crit/haste ... really not looking forward at this point

[wide niche]

There's really no way to twist forced PL as a good change unless you're just jealous of people who do splits.

In the end it's just the removal of player choice.

[lone junco]

grats 1000 crit/m belt to the guy that uses haste/vers. @turbid oxide

[turbid harbor]

Jealous xd

[turbid oxide]

You can always pick personal if you want it

[lone junco]

for now.

they will hammer this home.

[turbid harbor]

Blizzard have said splits are cancerous and have wanted to be rid of them for a long time

[lone junco]

they hate loot systems.

[turbid harbor]

I bet the wow devs are just jealous

[wide niche]

Then maybe they should do something that doesn't impact those who don't do them?

🤔

[turbid harbor]

Like what?

[lone junco]

this is a loop. afk

[wide niche]

Or, maybe don't make sweeping changes for the few who do run splits.

[lone junco]

want to fix splits. make the lockout account wide

leave my ML alone

[wide niche]

Hear me out

What if

Titanforges?

Gone

[lone junco]

I need TF, cause im bad

[wide niche]

One difficulty per character per week

[slim estuary]

Is there any way to log good on eonar without relying on procs haha

[lone junco]

that was LK

[shrewd night]

Leave my alts alone you cucks

[torn token]

Lockout account wide? Cant gear alts then

[turbid harbor]

This is not going to affect your life anywhere near as much as you think it does

[wide niche]

Let's just force everyone with the possibility of investing time into just running one raid per week

[hoary copper]

Noobe is fired up today

[wide niche]

Now everyone is on a nice even playing field

[turbid harbor]

A lot of guilds use personal on farm now

[wide niche]

and we don't have to get all envious of time invested

🤔

[turbid harbor]

Mine is starting to soon

[shrewd night]

Farm

[jovial kite]

yeah because progress is over

[lone junco]

on farm and because they want to

[shrewd night]

Exactly

Farm.

[lone junco]

the WANT TO

[shrewd oriole]

The point is, they have the choice

[jovial kite]

you dont need to ml anymore

[hazy flame]

But did they confirm they would remove ML?

[hoary copper]

Just because its personal doesnt mean you cant trade it, I didnt see that it was going away

[jovial kite]

you use ml to maximise your efficiency FOR PROGRESS

[lone junco]

we run group loot. dice coin on farm

I STILL dont want haste vers

[hoary copper]

then trade it lol

[lone junco]

DICE COIN

[shrewd night]

Cant trade upgrades

hello

[lone junco]

I dont want it.

pass

choice

[jovial kite]

what makes you think you can trade upgrades at the start of expac

cause they let you do it now?

[turbid harbor]

That is the downside

[lone junco]

guild ml was plenty. they can address splits in other ways.

[turbid harbor]

But it is not as big as people think

[shrewd night]

Better trade that neck to the gm or else you get kicked from the guild

[shrewd oriole]

LUL

pay for upgrades

150k and I’ll trade you the ring

[jovial kite]

oh look cpt shitstain got 985 and 980 tf daggers from 2 different bosses on 2 different days

its a shame he got 980 first

[turbid harbor]

Fragnance paid 1mil for 985 Argus neck xd

[shrewd oriole]

Lmao

[shrewd night]

Shame that Shitstain now has your raidspot

[shrewd oriole]

LUL

slaggjack more like slaggjackshitgear now

Shitstain has your spot

[cold spoke]

in a good guild, you lose your spot because youre bad

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shrewd oriole]

Cya

If two players are equally good but one has more gear

[shrewd night]

In a good guild they priorize people that can get you the kill

[shrewd oriole]

Who do ya take

[cold spoke]

also its pretty funny that you mention daggers

[shrewd night]

If all thing equal, you take the guy with the better gear

hello are you smoking something?

[jovial kite]

just an example inb4 rage

[cold spoke]

while weapons in bfa cant even titanforge

[turbid harbor]

What if your gear has always been shit but guilds keep you in for bosses anyway xd

[jovial kite]

could be an azerite piece

[cold spoke]

let knowledge be the tools for people to stop guessing

[jovial kite]

im 8 ilvls down to our gm

[hazy flame]

In a really good guild nobody is bad enough to not have a spot because of that otherwise you wouldnt be there lol

[jovial kite]

still do more on average

[shrewd night]

@hazy flame So your guild only has 20 people?

[cold spoke]

it gets even more funny because azerite pieces, cant even warforge

[wide niche]

Azerite can't TF

[shrewd night]

🤔

[cold spoke]

lmao

im done

[turbid harbor]

What does “really good” mean?

[cold spoke]

shoot me with more examples

[wide niche]

top 10

[cold spoke]

oh look this guy got 985 BRACERS

[wide niche]

super duper good is top 3

[cold spoke]

gun lus my spot

[turbid harbor]

So you’re saying you don’t care about the top 0.5%

[wide niche]

Then when you get further beyond to super duperdy ultra good, you get top 1.

[spare cloud]

[turbid harbor]

But then you care about the roster on top 10 guilds?

[wide niche]

(that's the best guild)

[jovial kite]

@cold spoke who said anything about losing raidspots over gear

[shrewd night]

I did, under the example 'if all thing equal' but he didnt read that

[jovial kite]

its just idiotic to remove the choice from a guild to gear towards progress

[shrewd night]

[cold spoke]

dnno scroll up people were screeching about someone getting a better piece of loot

[wide niche]

Well if the top 10 is 0.5%, then you're saying there's only 2k guilds, wow this game is dead.

[cold spoke]

if all thing equal, but all things are not equal

[jovial kite]

0.45% of the playerbase has cleared 11/11m

regards kieron

😉

[cold spoke]

whats the point of even thinking about it

when its just not the case?

[shrewd night]

Im just going to go by the assumption that you are high as fuck now, and dont get what you are reading.

[wide niche]

I mean, I see people with 985 Scourgewings from Heroic and I sure do feel like screeching

[cold spoke]

imagine if weapons could titanforge to 1500 ilv, this new mode is shit because weapons can tf so high ree

[warm parcel]

Youre still going?

jeez

[hoary copper]

They havent even made a decision one way or another about Master Loot from what I saw they were "thinking about it"

[cold spoke]

@warm parcel it ll never stop

[hazy flame]

@shrewd night no because different classes bring different things to the table 😉

[jovial kite]

its pretty telling of their design philosophy

[lone junco]

this affects our flex system more than I would prefer. We allow people to come and go attendance wise. when they come back, they are bumped down on prioirty. People with 100% tend to have the pick of loot whenever it drops. This is bad news.

[jovial kite]

''pl is the desired loot going forward''

[lone junco]

ye. D3 grind.

afk for 3 weeks, come back and get 2 weps and a trink. grats.

"deserved"

loot is not earned at the time it drops. loot is earned across all the progression and farm kills.

[wide niche]

It's a decision to make loot allocation more difficult, increasing the time it takes to fully kit a main raider. It's the carrot on a stick approach to gearing, and we shouldn't be surprised considering their loot system design choices in recent expansions.

[lone junco]

ofc. doesnt mean we cant punch them in the dick if we see them at Blizzcon

[wide niche]

Especially considering they thought Ashran was a success because of participation levels, when it was forced weekly if you wanted to stay with the curve.

Participation is what they care about at this point, not quality of experience.

[spare cosmos]

the aethys core addon suggests that i used Fan of Knives to get to 4/5 combo points on single target. SHould i be doing this or do I ignore it

[lone junco]

full pl group of leather inc.

@spare cosmos no

unless you have extra pk relics

[turbid harbor]

If that were true mythic would be much easier

You assume blizzard are consistent

They are not

[jovial kite]

they are consistent though

[wide niche]

Not really, because Blizzard cares about time spent, and harder Mythic means more time spent.

[jovial kite]

in catering to the casual player

theres definitely a red line

if you deny it exists well

🤷🏿

[lone junco]

they should care about the mass of the participation curve. but this doesnt really help us at all.

[wide niche]

Participation is really a bad term for what I'm describing. I believe the term Blizzard uses is "player engagement."

[jovial kite]

im disengaging so hard after next expac

d3 was shit

wow has been shit for many years

[turbid harbor]

Disengaging straight into death fog

[wide niche]

Are you quitting or just rerolling Hunter, the superior melee?

🤔

[jovial kite]

blizzard has ruined 2 franchises i loved and have been playing since i was a child

time to DE off the platform

[steep obsidian]

how does ploot solve the split run stack thing? or can you not trade loot in bfa

i havent really paid much attention

[jovial kite]

it doesnt

[steep obsidian]

like if i wnat a trinket for my mages i get like 10 caster alts for that boss and hope some of them get it

if they can trade it

[jovial kite]

exactly

[steep obsidian]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[jovial kite]

then you play the one char that gets lucky

its a bandaid fix to a leaking dam

[gaunt moat]

you're being so dramatic man.. jeez.

[jovial kite]

its true though 🤷🏿

[lethal heart]

dont worry

[zealous dew]

I agree with slack

[lethal heart]

blizzard isnt some small indie company

they can make it work

[zealous dew]

this game is turning into shitfest

[lethal heart]

and we'll be ok

for sure

[wide niche]

@steep obsidian PL doesn't solve the split run problem, it just makes splits less efficient, making top guilds feel forced to likely do more split runs.

But we'll see how that goes

[halcyon pumice]

honestly this game was only good during [MY FAVORITE EXPANSION] and its gone downhill since then. everyone knows it.

[shrewd oriole]

Lmao

[turbid oxide]

Legion is hands down my favorite expac <_<

So what does that mean?

[shrewd oriole]

Hmm

Hmmm

[hoary copper]

Masochism?

[shrewd oriole]

Legion is not my favorite expac

Shit raids

[jovial kite]

it means that the marketing and design has clicked in the target audience 🤷🏿

[shrewd night]

I overly enjoyed TBC, but thats just my rosetinted glasses

🤷

[hoary copper]

BC or WOLK is prob my fav

[shrewd oriole]

I really like both bc and wrath

But I think mop was my fav

Better raids than bc and wotlk imo

[shrewd night]

You know, the expansion where ML existed, and getting no participation rewards

[hoary copper]

I skipped after wolk until legion so wod and mop

[shrewd night]

[hoary copper]

and cata

[austere trail]

Your allrosetinted legions a good expac

[shrewd oriole]

the raids are shit

[halcyon pumice]

didn't BC have baby's first welfare purples

[shrewd oriole]

54 traits

Leggos

[wide niche]

Raids are fine, they're pretty good this expansion other than some weird end-boss design choices(mostly Avatar/KJ nonsense)

[hoary copper]

I liked Hagan, what was that Naxx?

[austere trail]

Not as good as wotlk but solid and alot of content

[wide niche]

At least that's my opinion

[shrewd oriole]

I think the raids dropped in quality personally

From mop / wod

[wide niche]

MoP raids made me quit before Throne of Thunder

🤷

I hear ToT was great though

[steep obsidian]

tot was fantatsic

soo was too it just lasted too long

i dont remember a shit boss in tot

[shrewd night]

The fucking robot

Dont you even dare

[steep obsidian]

i liked that boss actually

but i only did 10 man on heroic of that

[shrewd oriole]

Tot and soo were great

Wod has some of the best encounters of all time

[median marsh]

MoP best expansion

[shrewd night]

The only thing I didnt like about SOO was the literal one year heroic farm

[shrewd oriole]

My top 5 raids are all mop wod p much

Yeah sure I think the raid was too long but that doesn’t really diminish its greatness

Brf was probably my favorite raid of all time

Maybe top 3

[austere trail]

I mean ulduar?

[steep obsidian]

like i think i got frusrated in siegecrafter prog coz our ranged dps was pretty shit

but that doesnt make the raid or boss bad

[shrewd oriole]

Ulduar was amazing

Def 2nd or 1st for me

[median marsh]

WoW is great

[hoary copper]

hmmm what would the worst raid of all time be

[shrewd oriole]

Tos

Or

The crusader

Trial of the crusader or we it’s called

[austere trail]

If it was such a bad game why wouldn't just unsub and go play fortnight or some shit

[steep obsidian]

see tos wasnt reall a proper raid

[shrewd oriole]

?

[steep obsidian]

no one was done with ulduar when it came out

[jovial kite]

@austere trail because i paid for bfa already 🤷🏿

now i can just sit back and criticize them for shit design

[steep obsidian]

they could have just kept it as a fille r for the end of expac or something

[shrewd oriole]

I said tos as in tomb of Sargeras

[shrewd night]

@austere trail I know you are fishing for the a and r word, but Im not falling for that terrible bait

[steep obsidian]

oh

derr

[shrewd oriole]

Tos is shit

[hoary copper]

I didnt think TOS was that bad

[steep obsidian]

yeah i not a fan of tos

[shrewd oriole]

Tos on heroic was fine

[wide niche]

ToS had some very nice fight variety

[shrewd oriole]

Tos on mythic was probably the worst time I’ve ever had in wow

[steep obsidian]

all the blink and wipe mechanics

[shrewd oriole]

Yeah fight variety

[steep obsidian]

get a bit old unless you with top tier players

[hoary copper]

The last 3 were super overly punishing but eh

[shrewd oriole]

Insta wipe mechanic insta wipe mechanic

Soak this soak that

Diversity btw

haHAA

[austere trail]

I'm not baiting anything everyone's slamming legion and I get it's had some flaws but overall if you had ONE main it's been filled with stuff to do

[shrewd oriole]

Boring stuff

[wide niche]

There's more to a fight than the "is there a soak?" checkbox.

[steep obsidian]

i think legion is a much better expac then wod

[jovial kite]

wqs = dailies

stuff to do

[shrewd night]

Pet battles

oh yay

[shrewd oriole]

@steep obsidian depends

[jovial kite]

stuff to do

[shrewd oriole]

Raiding wise? No

Overall? Yes

Raiding wise, wod was fucking amazing

[wide niche]

It's pretty much undeniable that ToS had good fight variety. The varying target counts and fight styles on a spreadsheet would be argument enough.

[shrewd oriole]

Brf was absolutely hands down one of my personal top 3 raids

[steep obsidian]

i mean m+ is the best thing they have added to the game in many expacs

[strange python]

Guys my internet is rip, pls provide content

[austere trail]

Yeah man 2 raids for 2 years?

[steep obsidian]

cmodes were cool but no one did them oer and over unless you were selling them

[shrewd oriole]

3 great raids

Is better than 5 meh ones

[austere trail]

I'd rather get the raids we've gotten over legion than go back to mission tables and one night farm

[wide niche]

"Subjective"

[shrewd oriole]

But that’s what we do now?

One night farm and order hall table

Lmao

[jovial kite]

@austere trail the problem was, there were things to do in wod too

[hoary copper]

I dont like doing m+, idk

[strange python]

🍿 thanks guys 🍿

[jovial kite]

but the farm was too long

and it was more beneficial to just do missions than do anything else

[shrewd oriole]

Well guess I don’t do the order hall table

I do it on my phone