when you would get more value in aoe from a mastery statstick or digit
#tc-research
atomic flame
torn dome
runic hinge
@rich temple frond is crazy one fight 0% dmg next pull 18% was so dumb
rich temple
i don't think i've ever had a 0% for a fight >3min but, i mean it could happen
toxic flower
@atomic flame what trinket are you talking about?
atomic flame
The pharamere's grimoire that some dude was talking about earlier
toxic flower
ohhh okay, I was really confused lol
normal slate
Is a trinket doing 1.3 mil damage per target hit so bad? In M+ you can often hit 6+ targets with it. No stat stick would beat that. Therefore i want to sim it and i asked for help.
round canyon
theres also the part where melee classes cant use pharameres
atomic flame
They have to be at range to use it
normal slate
As subt its no problem. You use it when you sprint away for flickering shadows
atomic flame
It's like I want fury of the burning sky as sin
normal slate
Sprint has the same cd, using it doesnt even break stealth.
atomic flame
But no one will make an apl for it
Because there is just better trinkets
It's not even a consideration to be made into/included into any apl
normal slate
Wish i had Digit. But i dont have any aoe trinkets. CoF is absolute shit on trash in M+
normal slate
Thanks for the advice anyway. Ill keep using this trinket on trash and enjoy its huge damage spikes.
solemn geyser
what are the stat sticks named in the trinket sim list?
full bone
Weird question -- I'm hoping I'm not asking a dumb one too -- my simc has me dealing between 50k and 100k more DPS than I do in sustained fights in Nighthold right now. My rotations are fairly tight and I'm using all of the buffs it's factoring in...am I doing something wrong, or is simc telling me a perfect DPS picture, or?
frail gust
is DoS still siming higher than NF?
rich temple
@full bone patchwerk assumes 0 movement, that alone accounts for some of the discrepancy
full bone
Gotcha, thank you.
I'm happy with where my DPS is but was wondering where the extra deeps was coming in. I know I need to tighten up my rotation as it is.
rich temple
there's also the fact that simC executes everything exactly as the APL dictates, people make mistakes
dreamy tartan
So happy.. I prefer to play subt, and finally got the legendary boots!! How many points in energetic stabbing should I leave though?
I see in logs most ppl have 5/7
Ah sorry, wrong channel
atomic flame
Don't take your sim as the be all, end all
It assumes literal zero movement
and doing what rogues do best; just stab boss
worldly snow
Could somebody give me the cliffnotes on Run Through vs Between the Eyes for outlaw?
The way I'm reading the guides around here is that Run Through is the only finisher we should use because of the nighthold set RN, but apparently the wrist is top 2 legendaries, and I just don't know when I should use BTE then
civic cradle
use it whenever it's off CD to activate the wrist buff?
calm dust
how can i use the .dmg data for simulationcraft? ( the nightly). Is there an Import Option i havent seen yet?
raw knoll
not sure if this better here or general. For Sub does WM proc off insignia of ravenholdt? Everything I've seen says take MoS, but WM sims nearly 40k higher.
spark bronze
Anyone else simming OL legendary boots as being better single target than the bracers if you have the shoulders and are talented into ghostly strike/hit and run? I get better results with the boots on Patchwerk, Light Movement, Heavy Movement, the only time the bracers outperform the boots significantly is on Beastlord but only on the main target, on overall dps the boots are higher but then again on beastlord ring sims higher overall than both.
viscid sonnet
@raw knoll latest nightly?
raw knoll
@viscid sonnet 4/17 was the date on the build. Hadn't checked this morning.
calm dust
is it true that you open with kingsbane? i got the latest nightly and in the action priority list kb is the first action. i dont think thats right
I imported via Battlenet
errant tinsel
im not sure but you want to use kingsbane as early as possible
and if you play with subterfuge it doesnt matter what you hit with first
but usually the sample sequences are correct
worldly otter
Aethys I got a draught 910 and cof 895. Is it worth switching out for a frond 890? Either of them? If not, what ilvl should my frond be to swap out my other trinkets? @split sorrel
split sorrel
sim it ?
worldly otter
Alright π¦
finite thunder
@split sorrel can you ask someone to update the trinket guide? just the part that is saying that frond is oversimming, every day I see ppl asking about frond quoting that phrase, thx π
split sorrel
idk who do that
cursive sorrel
so ive got a question, just got heriod draught of souls, and ive been curious when is the best time in a fight to use it
vague olive
On cooldown during the fight when AP is stacked
cursive sorrel
thank you so much
civic cradle
cursive sorrel
sorry was unsure where to ask the question.
pine elk
Also, make sure you have surge of toxins up before you use DoS as well!
jovial veldt
anyone getting sims / parse from ptr yet on wub / outlaw?
magic tulip
does the default apl for nightstalker do vanish Then Envenom? or do i need to edit it in the program and if so how do i do it?
sterile gale
north heath
reading some conflicting reports on new ap trait paths. should serrated edge or toxic blades be taken after gushing wounds? i have 4 piece if that matters
finite thunder
env damage > rupture damage (if you have 4p and/or shoulders)
if you already have gw go for toxic blades
north heath
ty!
brave parcel
Are wrists and shoulder legendaries viable enough to go sub
vague olive
yes
brave parcel
but are wrists better then the belt
wise elm
tropic totem
Anybody got a sun for outlaw rogue... only see was and sub now π
robust marten
is there a addon that lets me copy the item id so i can just paste into simc. i know pawn shows them but theres now way to copypasta them
quiet marten
does the latest nightly build include 4% outlaw buff?
vague olive
Yes
atomic flame
@robust marten search the item on wowhead, set it to the correct item level, then click "Links" and copy and paste the simcraft string
late willow
uh you sure it has the 4% buff? The commit shows it was added on the 18th the last nightly build is on the 17th except for the mac version.
robust marten
Yea that's why I'm doing right now just thought I'd ask if anybody knows if an addon that lets u copy the item id from in game
robust marten
Point is to not have to equip them so I can trade em if they turn out to not be an upgrade. Nvm.
atomic flame
Oh, well then I just go with the "who cares it's mine now" attitude
Especially if gained from a raid, since Loot Council is a thing
distant plover
is there a point where u stop feeding mastery? i get almost same results with extreme high mastery-less agi vs more agi - less mastery. the diff between builds is like 1-2k. assa rogue.
vague olive
No
distant plover
need to get high guarm trinket to test double mastery trinkets. would be fun
hard hull
Does the new build reflect oulaw buffs
glacial juniper
Does anyone know the best two legendary's if you run SND build. I'm assuming shoulders but without TB how good are bracers? Would Ring be 2nd BiS?
marsh gulch
What's the best type of fight to sim in simcraft for sin? Should I juse use Patchwerk for my baseline, or would something like heavy cleave or heavy movement give me more accuracy?
finite thunder
always patchwerk for more accuracy
maiden cargo
What channel would i link my sims at to find out why im doing so bad?
late willow
How does this fish for true bearing # Fish for '3 Buffs' or 'True Bearing'. With SnD, consider that we never have to reroll. actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=!talent.slice_and_dice.enabled&(rtb_buffs<=2&!rtb_list.any.6)
sterile jolt
from memory, rtb_list.any.6 refers to true bearing
late willow
Hmm thats what it would have to be but thats a terrible identifier for it lol
sterile jolt
I'm not crash hot on the syntax for the collection object its using, but essentially its just an index in a list
iron obsidian
exactly. rtb is just a list, and "all" just means that the buffs initiated to the number next to it has to be up.
with 6 being true bearing
tribal scroll
!clear @earnest palm
viscid sonnet
@split sorrel is there wound poison support in simc now? since people are memeing out with it in farm raids
split sorrel
of course
already proven it's not worth π
not working on poison knives
and you would need like 15k mastery to be worth in st
except maybe with bracers
on a long sub 30% phase
viscid sonnet
alright, i see
maiden cargo
how can i properly simulate bota mythic to decide between bracer/boots. is it patchwerk 3 targets?
ionic eagle
mythic bota is a pure ST fight
gleaming raft
@split sorrel Hey man, do u know why simc doesnΒ΄t refresh garrote during vanish on opener with mantle?
split sorrel
cuz it's not worth in most case
gleaming raft
But u will lose some time of buffed garrote
split sorrel
and ?
gleaming raft
ok
buoyant sail
which is better single target, insignia or cinidarias? talking about sin here
pure sluice
does anyone has updated sim for Relics for subtlety ?
regal agate
type !relic in any other channel (general or underbelly)
pure sluice
is that list updated?
regal agate
yes
pure sluice
ok thankyou π
late willow
Can you get the nightly to be rebuilt. It hasnt been updated since monday before the buff to outlaw.
vague olive
the nightly is updated for me, with the buff to outlaw im pretty sure.
late willow
The last nightly was 2017-04-17 15:40 on the website and the commited changed for outlaw were on the 18th
for PC
If you built it from github then its definitely updated but Ive just been getting the zip file from the website
vague olive
Oh duh, haha. I do have a mac, I haven't slept
late willow
lol
vague olive
that's odd though, usually mac is updated way later
late willow
Wrong channel
graceful drift
@maiden cargo #228878985210101760
maiden cargo
i know @ionic eagle but you geht 30% benefit from bracer 3times thats why i ask
get*
ionic eagle
yes, but the boss has technically 3x the hp and 3x as much time above 30%
so it stays the same
finite thunder
no, its less than 3x 30%, because she stops at 10% 2 times
hazy ocean
Is there a somewhat "advanced" guide section? I have been playing my rogue for 2 months now, and I wonder some things, like, should I refresh rupture when I have Kingsbane up, and miss on that envenom buff, when to delay vanish if unbuffed rupture has 15 seconds going and when to pool energy...
odd sedge
grave frost
ive been simming 3x ma's , 1 ma & 2x gw and 1 ma 2x envenom. the damage of each combination of only 1 ma is significantly higher than 3x ma
can we trust those sims or is there something wrong about ma like it was with cof ?
hazy ocean
@odd sedge no, but i really mean some in depth info
ionic eagle
@finite thunder this is about bota mythic, not elisande
late willow
-_- the simc nightly osx build keeps getting updated lol and the other versions arent
normal slate
Unfortunate that the guy who simmed all the relics didnt add the effect of Mantle on all the weights :(
strong rune
@late willow - you can compile yourself if you're interested in the latest.
limber canyon
Anyone good with logs?
hard hull
does anyone know if the latest sim build reflects 4% buff to outlaw hotfix this week
finite osprey
umbral crag
Hi. Where can I report a bug in simcraft?
The Master Assassin's Initiative buff after using Vanish lasts about 6.8s ingame (after breaking vanish with an ability), in simcraft the duration is only 6s as far as i can tell.
For example, I can use the following opener ingame:
... Vanish > Envenom > Mutilate > Garrote > DoS > Envenom
In simcraft the last Envenom is used without the Shoulder buff.
glossy garnet
Hi all,
a question at the more knowledgeable guys here: Do you know if simcraft uses the passiv of the leggo back Dreadlord's? Because it sims worse for me than Valeeras Will.
solemn plaza
It used to, back when I used cloak (which is a while ago). Sim once without and check Shuriken/Fan of knives dmg
Also check for the buff
@glossy garnet
glossy garnet
Will do. Thanks
viscid sonnet
@glossy garnet it should fok once every time you get full stacks
will of valeera is pretty beefy since its a leg item (TONS of mainstat) and gained mastery as a third secondary in 7.2
split sorrel
@umbral crag it's because u vanish while ur gcd is ongoing
it's in my TODO list to do a vanish after an ability that proc the gcd
but it's a bit painful
vague basin
hey guys can any1 help me with my macro. my opener is really weak compared to ohters with my ilvl. my ilvl is 904 eq with 140% mastery and 27% crit
ops worng copy
#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=15 Garrote, Envenom, Mutilate, Rupture, Mutilate, Kingsbane(Artifact), Vendetta, Mutilate, Vanish, Rupture,
civic cradle
rofl, people atually have a 1 button thing for the opener, are you silly, do it yourself, and #228878985210101760 please
cerulean junco
why not, if you script it right you get perfect openers
hallow prairie
what talents are u using on m+? AP or Alacrity
merry pike
please go to general
split sorrel
that's wrong considering mutilate crits π
except during mantle buff
and what if you get out of range for one ability ?
π
cerulean junco
with mantle the opener is always the same
i checked it multiple times and you pretty much have the same timings you see in your APL
split sorrel
yes
cerulean junco
i think its more that "noob" mentality why some think sequence macros are bad.
split sorrel
as I said
"except during mantle buff"
issue with macro and when u're out of sync
let's take as example, M Gul'dan
what do u do ?
cerulean junco
shadowstep and go?
oh you mean cause you may need to save cds for the add
its not like you are commited 100% to do the full sequence. you can stop anytime, include pauses for pooling or just continue with single inputs.
it depends a little bit how complex your sequence is obviusly, but the mantle opener is a very good candidate to use one
split sorrel
tbh, it's one of the reason I wrote an addon π
after all, the goal is the same
so you can plug simc power into an addon ingame
cerulean junco
im impressed that it covers that many specs..first i thought it only is for rogues
split sorrel
I do rogues, contributor do others
π
I help if someone needs help, and sometime I double check rotation cuz I got some alts
hidden prism
Hey all. I just simmed myself for Outlaw in my 888 gear, and it told me that Agi >> Haste > Verse > Crit > Mastery... but I thought haste was supposed to be our worst secondary? Is that expected?
Single target fight.
hidden prism
Okay. π
Thanks!
I'm beginning to wonder if my SimC is broken. O.o It went from Haste > Vers > Crit > Mastery, to V>C>M>H, and now V>H>M>C.. This feels off
Oh! Could this just be from RTB rng in SimCraft?
royal laurel
you could also enable plotting
gusty wren
how do you find the IDs for the traits for simming the order for simcraft
hidden prism
What is a healthy minimum for iterations with Outlaw?
split sorrel
use target_error π
hidden prism
I have Target Error set to Auto in the Options->Globals page
oh
that greys out iterations
headdesk
No need to set it π
Are you familiar with what Target Error does? I'm curious to learn
Oh, okay, now that I've done a bit of examining of the reports, I see why. Haste/Crit/Mastery are so close in value with my gear that swapping out one ring completely flipped them around. Vers is the only one that consistently stands above.
That makes some sense now that I see all the plotting
And "completely flipped" doesn't mean a whole lot, because it just meant that some are now slightly behind others; but the real values are still close.
split sorrel
it sims until it reaches the given % error
it compare the highest actor sim vs the lowest
well, rather
on a given actor
it see the distribution
hmm
I guess the wiki will explain it better than me, mostly since french words arent really the same in english
hollow root
Does Target Error work for DPS only? I'd like to target specific error on Stat Weights.
split sorrel
of course
hidden prism
Is there a breakpoint where agonizing overtakes deadly?
I know it's supposed to be better - but is there a common point for it?
civic cradle
Why do people keep insisting on magic numbers and limits. agonizing is better on ST period, the point was probably somewhere around ilvl 850 5 months ago or smth
No one's ever going to bother to calculate "The exact amount of agility and each secondary stat required for agonizing to overtake deadly" because it's pointless and nobody cares.
hallow egret
can some1 tell me how i can sim if the relic is worth taking ?
regal agate
you can either go to wowhead and look up the id and bonusid of the relic (in the url) or use an addon (e.g. simbuilder) if you own the relic
robust marten
i have GW and TB already. didnt know what to put my next point it so i decided to sim it. looking for some insight as to why 6% mut crit >10% rupture crit
this is on latest simc build
i have shoulders as well if that has anything to do with it.
errant tinsel
propably because rupture and mutilate are pretty similar in damage overall with shoulders
and rupt crit gives increased damage only whereas mutilate also gives you more combopoints
but not sure, was the same for me though
also, poison knives>rupt crit and master alchemist
civic cradle
yeah ofc 2% mut crit > 3% rupt crit
vague remnant
Hello! I just got (windows) creator's update and I haven't been able to run simc since, no idea why. Tried reinstalling, rebooted several times. Anyone have this issue? Using latest nightly.
robust marten
@errant tinsel didnt even think about the cp generation. thanks
viscid sonnet
@robust marten muti crit beat rupture DAMAGE for me even π
merry nimbus
How do i sim different relics without putting them on
heavy moon
@merry nimbus its in the simc guide
untold needle
ok im seeing a lot of different openers for sin with draught/mantle
i see some with early rupture and others with a couple more low CP envenoms, which is correct/what does it depend on?
simple patrol
hey guys I have a 885 relic that gives more energy in blade furry and a 870 relic that boost critical chance of pistol shots, which one should I take ? (I have the bracers leg and sephuz)
maiden cargo
sim it
simple patrol
how ?
regal agate
you can use an addon to sim relics without equiping (if you own them). simbuilder for example(you still need simcraft for the simulation the addon just provides the imput string).
if you dont have the relic you need to go to wowhead, search the relic, choose the right itemlvl and copy the id/bonusid to your imput string.
lunar trout
Or use raidbots.com - show input - copy to SimulationCraft.
Or just run the sim there alternatively.
gray kestrel
do u guys got some kind of trinket dashboard spreadsheet?
eager vigil
Hey fellow rogues. Can any1 explain for me how you set Use trinket in simcraft? My nightfrond 875 is siming higher than my DoS 900
bleak sky
It's also because mutilate has two chances to crit
raw knoll
As long as you have the correct and current build, I'm not surprised. Frond better than DoS. Haste is doing nothing for you.
willow crystal
DoS+Shoulders tho, dem crits β€
raw knoll
I'd rather have frond. DoS better in the hands of the warriors in your raid.
normal mural
is aethys' spreadsheet on mmoc that says "7.0" still updated regularly?
split sorrel
no
wind lotus
@split sorrel do we get to see a PTR version of your Addon? :)
split sorrel
yes π
so you'll be able to use it for raid test!
and it also let me to be sure to have a smooth release on 7.2.5 patch day π
like it was for 7.2 π
Mystler did some tweak to the current sub APL for the PTR version on SimC
all 3 rogues will have a live and ptr APL version during the whole PTR
the addon will have the same
novel garden
I'm new here.. is there an updating 7.2 sim for latest change to exsanguinate?
for assa
boreal patrol
what do you mean, the 7.2.5 change?
civic cradle
Do we have an idea what the new rolling rules for RtB will be?
civic cradle
The new broadsides looks a bit OP
If they'd just fix saber slash double-strike all the time bug so I can properly test out outlaw
glossy bobcat
hi everyone, trying to sim my rogue but my latest sims showed I couldnt hit 1m dps opener, yet im always pulling 1m+ openers. are there any specific options I should set?
over 100,000 iterations
cobalt junco
@thin spire instant cast abilities do not interrupt your auto attacks, if that's what you're asking. So using your rupture/garrote/ whatever will not reset your "swing-timer", not for us rogues at least
@glossy bobcat this is late but maybe check and see if your scaling is set correctly in simc
gray wasp
So is Nightstalker better than subterfuge and simcraft is incorrect?
thin spire
@cobalt junco i have no problems with sin abilities, just sub ones. I do less aa with
Sub
This thing affect trinkets tho, frond proc less times and so can't use it at full potential, same for the sub passive, i dunno if this happen while simming or not
abstract crypt
Anyone else getting 0 DPS increase in sims with Dreadblade's Vigor trait?
tough dirge
Raidbots is 10x faster than my pc, but fixed fight length realy annoys me.
snow tinsel
Do I need to believe my Sims, if they say that Arcanogolem Digit ilvl 915 is better than Nightblooming Frond 905 or Entwined Elemental Foci 905
tawny stump
is there a mastery softcap for assassination?
tawny stump
xD
random veldt
that was just sarcastic, not even toxic
pearl ferry
i have legboots and 2x MA with CoF, nightblooming sims 20k more dps than CoF tho (905vs890), should I ignore the sim on that one?
willow pecan
why not both
pearl ferry
have got a 925 dos in the other slot
maiden cargo
guys i just got feet legendary for sin i have zoldyck and mantle and 3 MA relics should i consider changing 1 MA relic now?
finite thunder
no, with boots vendeta relics become even better
if you have CoF as well, you can even align with KB (with golden trait)
torpid roost
aye, I found that bracers > boots without the MA relics
rich arch
!guide
warped smelt
guys, how can I sim ptr results?
split sorrel
enable ptr in options
tomorrow nightly will have more stuff
especially for outlaw
regal agate
ptr in options is a nice change π
maiden cargo
it just crashes when I try to sim from ptr
split sorrel
wait next nightly then
maiden cargo
sub that is
aight aight
but simming sub now is pointless, so much stuff that isnt implemented on ptr yet
split sorrel
π
raw knoll
I'm really curious to see how Outlaw ends up. The 4% increase on live was nice and so far the extra rerolling doesn't seem as frustrating on the PTR.
supple hull
I just got the assassination bracers, does the default simcraft apl hold vendettas/use PP under 30%, or do i need a custom line
split sorrel
no
robust marten
thanks!
sterile axle
Question: when you sim for cleave/adds - do you just change number of targets to 3? or do you change Fight style as well?
maiden cargo
http://www.wowhead.com/item=144976/cruel-gladiators-badge-of-conquest#shared-cooldown:0-2
Got this one in 895 -
1969 Agi and 2777 vers for 20 sec (1 min cd)
Did try to sim it, but it was worse than my old trinket. When checking for buff I never saw it listed.
Is it possible that this does not sim correctly?
Otherwise it should be great from stat perspective ?
Buff is called Rapid Adaption
sterile jolt
@maiden cargo Since its an on-use trinket, you need to adjust the APL to activate it
marsh sentinel
should i bind macro
/cast pistol shot
/attack
because when i PS when opportunity procs my toon stops attacking
rustic wigeon
where can we talk about 7.2.5?
jovial veldt
im also wondering about 7.2.5
robust marten
anywhere. Hey does anybody know if the "poison knives" trait increased AP damage only applies when using FoK. i thought it did but the trait is simming over GW and Serrated Edge for me
is it just a flat AP dmg increase or is it supposed to work like DP where if FoK hits a target with AP already will it increase AP's dmg bonus by 6%
im sure simc is just counting it as a flat increase to AP bonus dmg
drifting cipher
Anyone know how draugh is for sub? vs Nightbloom, considering you get allot more vanishes in for the shoulder buff?
jolly blaze
hey guys what legendaries should i pick shoulders/prydaz or shoulders/ring for assasination??
finite thunder
@drifting cipher not a good trinket, DoS is "ok" for sin because it get buffed my AP
and for sub just by vanish+shoulder
merry cloud
@robust marten it just increase to AP potency. With some weird formula
cerulean junco
they need to remove all the secondary effects from the talents if they remove AP :X
outlaw and sub is already implemented right?
regal agate
yes but you need to compile it yourself or wait for the next nightly release (sub is in for sure)
cerulean junco
ya waiting for sin too :X
thin spire
Frond is better on assa and outlaw since you get much less melee attacks as sub
split sorrel
since when ? @thin spire
Thirst is missing 3 hits compared to me
it's mostly due to sprint vanish (and haste ofc)
anyway, stop spreading misinformation
shadow blades counts as melee
and if you don't believe it works
π
00:00:26.459 Thirst Recursive Strikes Xavius 180814
00:00:27.172 Thirst Shadow Blade Xavius 51296
00:00:27.215 Thirst Recursive Strikes Xavius 180814
00:00:27.710 Thirst Melee Xavius 17608
00:00:27.741 Thirst Recursive Strikes Xavius *361626*
00:00:28.439 Thirst Melee Xavius Miss
00:00:28.981 Thirst Melee Xavius Miss
00:00:29.702 Thirst Melee Xavius Miss
00:00:30.235 Thirst Melee Xavius 15926
00:00:30.287 Thirst Recursive Strikes Xavius *361627*
00:00:30.962 Thirst Melee Xavius 35452
00:00:30.989 Thirst Recursive Strikes Xavius 180813```SimC reflects this btw.
thin spire
@split sorrel i don't want to spread misinformation, sry about that. i asked this question several times and never got an answer, glad to see someone (you) did it.
i didn't know about the shadowblade thing tho
split sorrel
It's okay, but for me Frond is better on assa and outlaw since you get much less melee attacks as sub wasn't really looking a question π
You can always mention me when the question is interesting enough and no one gives answer π
thin spire
yes, sorry i will mention you next time. thx anyway π
subtle blade
Guys, quick and stupid question: the DPS that shows up at the end of the sim on raidbots/simulationcraft is an average of the DPS I should be doing? 'cause I'm getting nowhere close to that (shows up as 550k, I usually hover around 400-450k @ 883 ilvl Sub).
slender quartz
Hi there, should we start to switch to outlaw taking into account actual outlaw ranking on multiple boss (1rst on most of them) and further buffs in 7.2.5?
sry wron gchat
white nexus
Im an 892 outlaw rogue siming like 660k dps is that accurate?
safe aspen
@split sorrel sample sequence table with subterfuge doesn't seem to use garrote during subt after vanishing, but still simming as a dps increase over nightstalker
am I missing something?
atomic ibex
Hi guys, i have 845 master assassin relic vs 875 gushing wound. I know MA worth 28ivl, but i dont know if its 28 for all relic.
Like GW is 11
split sorrel
no @safe aspen
atomic ibex
Do i need to do 28-11, and the result is the ilvl difference i need ? So only 17ilvl between this 2 ?
safe aspen
so subterfuge buffed garrote on opener simply does more damage than nightstalker buffed vanish envenoms throughout the fight?
wet pine
guys i got a question about relics curently eq blood 865 MA and 900 cloak of shadows relic dropped is it worth changing ? got boots and convergence
gaunt gale
that doesn't sound right to me either @safe aspen... but if the sim shows it?
wet pine
!relics
frail ingot
guys where can i find sims for assassination relics?
coarse topaz
Is there an easy way to handle something only during the opener in the APL? Was wondering if it's a gain to double apply to pandemic your first garrote when using subterfuge.
fervent vector
!help
split sorrel
@coarse topaz diff is very small
it is not a gain to double garrote subterfuge
but based on circumstance it can be
i.e. if you have to go out of melee for example
coarse topaz
Thanks Aethys.
split sorrel
might be in T20 tho
regal agate
its probably better to sim it yourself as the impact depends on your gear
cobalt junco
@white nexus that sounds about right. i'm 886 and simming for a little under that. Funny though, I'm simming for a bit higher than i'm actually able to pull off real time.
tawny cradle
yea but poison knives? lol
robust marten
Gives flat AP dmg increase
I thought it was only during FoK but apperantly it's just a flat increase to AP's bonus dmg
robust marten
U still need 2 ma
That's an old sim aswell
Before new traits
Before 7.2
I'd advise to stay away from information a patch old
raw knoll
@white nexus depending on your legendaries that's either right, or low. I sim about 780k at 902 (insignia + kj). Shoulders add about 70k to my sim.
robust marten
u have shoulders?
pulsar canyon
Atm as sin i sim 863k dps, and with some gear swapping and ravenhold ring and shoulders (no outlaw lege), i sim 912 as outlaw. 50k dps is a bit much so wanted to ask if outlaw sims precisely and pulled ahead so much @split sorrel
late wren
rose sphinx
I have a question about sim craft if someone could explain what are the gem ids next to my mainhand weapon? because we don't have gems in our weapons: from simcraft text line
main_hand=,id=128870,bonus_id=741,relic_id=3520:1477:3337/3444:1487:3336/3411:1527:3336,gem_id=140822/140815/136718/0
solemn sonnet
!sim
tawny cradle
how do I sim on the ptr with the new build?
split sorrel
@tawny cradle ptr=1 or ptr active in options
@pulsar canyon RNG and skilled APL (fast reaction)
tawny cradle
just write ptr=1 on simulation window?
split sorrel
did u adjusted talents ?
also yeah, overall right now sub changes are mostly a nerf
probably same for outlaw, until they changes the %
it's mechanic changes
tawny cradle
yea swapped like 4 times
split sorrel
not balance yet
tawny cradle
oh I alright thanks for clarifying
maiden cargo
How does rota / opener change when you have the Bracers and the Mantle? ^^
I am still very confused how to make the best of both and how to do a correct rota and how to roll with both..
Greenskins increases crits value greatly.
Mantle negates it.
Shark infested waters is clearly lower worth with mantle ..
Simcraft tells me now completly differnent values, switched most crit for vers and mastery.
Dropped from 39% crit to 24%
(@woven shoal)
split sorrel
world of true bearing
bte when u don't have the buff
try the addon using simc apl if u want to see in live what simc would do
maiden cargo
Trying to understand what you just told me.
So I can actually see ingame what button simc would press in each situation?
Is there a guide anywhere on how to set this up?
ok AethysRotation
https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/aethysrotation
Did not see your addon anywhere in the Pins or FAQ
split sorrel
I do not advertise it "publicly" until I'm satisfied enough with
which is not the case atm, but it's still pretty playable π
and it is how I make APL nowadays
scenic patrol
in 7.2.5 will sub be a more viable specc for pve?
cursive dock
yesterday I sim 900k as outlaw.today 860k..whats happening
also somehow haste weighted higer than ver
O_O
boreal patrol
might be a bug I fixed with combat potency proc chance being too high in simc
regarding stat weights make sure to run enough iterations (use target error)
cursive dock
okey thnks
hasty raft
Anyone having issues with latest simc? One is simming 952k, the next 964k, the next 912k - same gear/spec etc
Circles around those 3 numbers again and again
boreal patrol
what spec and how many iterations?
pulsar canyon
@late wren yeah i sim like that...
@split sorrel i get what u saying about skilled APL. But RNG in siming?
scenic patrol
gw
blissful knoll
ye was thinking that myself
cause doubt im gonna replace the relic, 925 mythic titanforged
regal agate
i pinned a guide how to sim traits in #228878985210101760
chilly meadow
I'm having trouble finding any #s about this, wondering if anyone had simmed the bonus between Sephuz and the boots for Outlaw?
blissful knoll
ty @regal agate
trail abyss
hello How It Works to Use Six Shadow Strike During Subterfuge Phase https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Dbzh2XqP9VBLMgAt#fight=25&type=casts&source=1&view=timeline
regal agate
thats becouse shadowdance protects stealth
regal agate
i should pin it in general or so, i get asked daily
trail abyss
thank you
flat flare
Not sure if thats the correct channel for this, but the case is that NBF / DOS sims 4k higher than CoF/DoS or NBF/CoF, but NBF is very unreliable. Should I stick to CoF/DoS or go with NBF / DoS?
compact viper
flat flare
Legendaries you mean? Boots and Shoudlers
vast girder
I would go CoF/DoS honestly. Since NBF is so unlikely to be valuable.
flat flare
Yeah, thats what I am doing currently, works well, just wondered if Im not missing some potential gain there
Thanks alot
lean fossil
versed heron
Frond has higher variance, depends on how much you wanna gamble with your parses.
a good frond parse will be better than the best DOS parse but you might not get even one of those in a raid night.
pastel sundial
yeah..you dont need 5-10% fond damage
if you roll a decent high version of it the agi + 1-2% extra dmg mostly always are fine to be already in a decent spot
split sorrel
round canyon
what changed with the most recent simc nightly?
im simming lower as outlaw and im getting these unexpected stat weights
https://gyazo.com/4d4a782fb5c0d4a94e26ec91d6bff4b6
regal agate
scroll up abit Mystler commented about that.
round canyon
what exactly was changed?
i cant seem to find the commit for it
i saw the thing mystler said, but he wasnt very specific
boreal patrol
check the changelog at http://www.wowhead.com/spell=35551/combat-potency#changelog back in WoD combat potency proc chance scaled with weapon speed
that proc chance calculation was still in simc the whole time
split sorrel
^^
umbral tapir
which simcraft build should i use? latest update or latest nightly build?
split sorrel
always latest nightly
umbral tapir
could u guide me just a bit ?
i use win32 is that the latest for me simc-720-03-nightly-osx-x86-8bb978d03.dmg ?
split sorrel
this is osx
grave frost
uhm
the outlaw apl looks awful. "prepot - curse of the dreadblades - vanish" with shoulders
queen elk
Is versatility more important than crit once you get the mantle of assassination ?
ionic pelican
with outlaw? dont think so, i mean a bit for sure, but versa just diminishes like hell
queen elk
and for sin ?
round canyon
@queen elk crit becomes your worst stat with mantle as outlaw
queen elk
lol ok thanks, so it's going (for sin) Mastery > Versa > Crit >= Haste ?
heavy moon
crit should still be better than haste
queen elk
thx guys (:
celest cypress
i'm seeing frond (895) simming higher than either CoF (890) or DoS (895). see results here: https://raidbots.com/simbot/report/BJpu0WTCl
that's surprising to me. is frond simming correctly?
celest cypress
alright, so we collectively believe dropping CoF for frond is a win? that still seems surprising to me, but i'll test it out in the real world π
heavy moon
@celest cypress you drop dos not cof
vivid lagoon
do you guys know why avast ist blocking my simcraft? >_>
celest cypress
@heavy moon the raidbots link i linked above shows dropping CoF being worth more than swapping DoS out
peak bone
Versatility cap for assasination ?
raw knoll
@celest cypress what does the nightly simc build tell you? I would agree in dropping DoS.
celest cypress
i don't have nightly simc installed here, but raidbots (set to use the nightly build) is showing 895 frond > 895 DoS > 890 CoF. (report here: https://raidbots.com/simbot/report/BJpu0WTCl)
cinder lava
Prolonged Power or Old war for raids? I find that Prolonged pwer would be better no?
granite gust
grave wharf
@split sorrel in the latest Nightly, it still seems like Dreadblade's Vigor (the trait for 10% damage buff during Curse) does not have any impact on dps. If I override the trait to be disabled (with artifact_override=dreadblades_vigor:0 ), I wind up with roughly the exact same dps. In reality it should be in the ballpark of a 2% overall difference.
simple socket
Are the sims taking into account mantle making crit bad for Outlaw, cause it's still telling me crit is my 2nd best stat
finite thunder
it does for me, are you using the last nightly?
for me with mantle is simming as my worst stat
simple socket
Let me check
Aha there we go, I was literally 1 build out and that made the difference
Though I also sim at like 60k dps less
without any changes to my char as far as I know so that's curious
split sorrel
scroll up -_-
simple socket
Not seeing anything pertaining to a large DPS loss, unless you're refering to the combat potency but that wouldnt take effect until 7.2.5
amber raven
split sorrel
there were wod leftover inside simc about combat potency @simple socket
read again the commit
simple socket
Oh crap yeah my bad, nearly 6am so my focus aint exactly great
Cant believe that's been in there since wod though haha
split sorrel
it happens
cerulean junco
aethys - where everything can happen
cursive dock
@split sorrel the wod leftover is still there or fixed?
boreal patrol
it's fixed in latest nightly, that's why dps went down
cursive dock
ouh..the one that high dps is bugged. dem
I thot otherwise
Outlaw, Agility=22.27, CritRating=18.53, HasteRating=19.32, MasteryRating=12.95, Versatility=18.5)
so different..tsk..
its correct I should folo this? because few days ago its like normal ver>=crit>mastery > haste
boreal patrol
target error rate 0.1% π
cursive dock
sory I don't understand. I should change something?
boreal patrol
yes, in the options, default is 10k iterations, use target error rate instead
outlaw is so rng, 10k aren't enough
cursive dock
okey thanks. using raidbots not in office. will try with simcraft..tho raidbots have 25k iterations..trying that now see if any different
yeah still same stat witl 25k . haste>vers>crit>mastery..
eventho my haste at 10%. its weird..will report again after try 0.1% target erro
tribal vale
why is my simcraft simming me for a number i know i will never reach, 800k
but shadowcraft is simming me something much more reasonable like 650k
boreal patrol
when it comes to absolute numbers simc is more accurate, check the pin in #226375547381350400
regal agate
its very likely becouse of the player skill and the szenario.
if you sim a patchwork fight and compare your numbers to a movement heavy encounter with downtimes you will very likely get lower numbers.
the same applys if you are not able to peform as good or close to the apl even on similar fights.
regal agate
check pins in #off-topic
maiden cargo
hello! What is the best horde race for assassination for pure dps?
marble mauve
Orc
maiden cargo
Hello, How do poison knives increase the effect of Agonizing poision? I got 4/4 now which increases the effect by 8% => Is that 8% from the +/- 40% I get from AP at 5 stacks?
torpid roost
why is simcraft casting vanish on the pull in outlaw? (latest nightly)
oh, the APL is missing "mantle_duration=0" in the vanish bit
Should it be changed to this?
actions.stealth+=/vanish,if=(equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin&buff.true_bearing.up&mantle_duration=0)|variable.stealth_condition
coarse topaz
Aethys, what simc options are you running fight style?
I've been using lightmovement / 1 target / elite
not sure if that's optimal for NH, basically been ignoring adds in mythic unless I absolutely have to
ember fossil
Thoughts on why my simc for Outlaw basically flipped stat weights over the last few nightly builds? I went from the typical Vers ~= Crit > Haste > Mastery to Mastery > Haste ~= Crit > Vers
Legendaries are KJBW and Mantle
Ran with 100K iterations (previous was likely set to .05% error)
ember fossil
Roger. Should have scrolled back farther than the comments about it affecting DPS to find the comments about stat weights too. Thanks.
tidal shore
can any 1 help plz with the simulation got 1 question
round canyon
@ember fossil there was a bug with combat potency that has been in simc since the start of legion
it was recently fixed
tidal shore
ya i know its fixed the issue is that my simcraft shows that my kingsbane does way more dmg than it does in a fight i dont understand i always have it 100% up time
split sorrel
?
random veldt
@tidal shore must be doing something wrong, my simcraft is actually showing 1.5% less than my avg kingsbane damage lol
civic cradle
my KB sometimes does more damage than rupture :p
split sorrel
depends on poison rng application π π π π π π π
vague remnant
Hey, the last couple days I wasn't able to run SimC. If it helps anyone, the issue was caused by the latest nvidia drivers. Version 378.92 works.
young forge
!trinkets
fallow wave
Planning to switch to Outlaw and doing some simulations. With my current Sin setup (boots+Shoulders) I'm doing ~860K and with Outlaw gear ~815k. But SimC shows a 75% uptime on TB, that means fishing with 1-2 CPs as well?
tight agate
!trinkets
flat flare
when simming different relics i can see that those i already have equipped have 3 sets of numbers, eg. 3518:1507:3336, while those on wowhead have only 2 sets of digits, whats the difference?
And does putting numbers like 140815:3445 (2sets) affects my simulation?
sterile grotto
Helllo, one question, anyone here who know what is better? Memento of Angerboda itemlevel 905 (http://www.wowhead.com/item=133644/memento-of-angerboda&bonus=1826) or Draught of Souls itemlevel 895 (http://www.wowhead.com/item=140808/draught-of-souls&bonus=3515). I would be very pleased to receive your answers and opinions.
weary parcel
S I M I T
sterile grotto
yes, with memento of angerboda i got 855546 dps and with Draugh of Souls i got 854566 dps. simed with SimcSetup-720-03-Win64.exe from 2017-04-26
no real difference
weary parcel
so use momento then
feral crystal
strange, just downloaded newest nightly build and when you select Enable Scaling, you can't select anything under stats to scale
simple heron
hello, i just simmed my rogue with [Cinidaria, the Symbiote] and [Zoldyck Family Training Shackles] and the belt sims 12k dps higher.
random veldt
Great story. Solid plot. I really embraced the characters. 10/10.
simple heron
what?
feral crystal
he mean you arent presenting a question
coarse topaz
what simc options does everyone use for fight style?
simple heron
hmm, just wondering if this is actually true, or only on paper and in reality the bracers is still better?
gaunt gale
Even if the belt were better, surely you would be better served with sub 30% dps, for the raids sake. 100-90 is rarely a difficult part of the fight, nor a dps check.
random veldt
belt sims like shit
belt sims as 10% of the fight is 10% of the time. so 5min sim, it assumes 10% is 30s
where it's usually a lot less
round canyon
@random veldt thats not true
@random veldt simcraft has the fluffy pillow enemy lose HP at a rate based off of your damage realistically
in this sim i happen to have open the boss was at 90-100% for 6.65% of the fight
random veldt
hm
nocturne goblet
Hello Rogue discord not sure if this is correct channel but does outlaw sims have same kind of interaction with haste where haste sometimes scales reallt high or is there a breakpoint. I have an understanding vers and crit are the main secondaries (while having balanced amount of mastery and haste)
heavy moon
scroll up
nocturne goblet
Oh shit sry was looking in pins and didnt see anything there
nocturne goblet
odd that it scales in sims already if its the ptr change that affects it
bleak sky
No
It was using old wod code
So it never got changed for legion in the first place
In simc
boreal patrol
make sure you run outlaw stat scaling simulations with target error (0.1% recommended) instead of default 10k iterations
when i checked NH default profile, haste was not #1
bleak sky
I used .05%
And it was by far
NH default doesn't use any leggos
With shoulders and greenskins haste wins
boreal patrol
interesting
bleak sky
It trashed sin too
@boreal patrol I basically first did my initial tests with the default profile but swapped in shoulders and greenskins
mossy hearth
it says vers is by far best for me as outlaw
like agi = 20, vers = 18, and rest is around 10
with mantle ring
torn dome
Somewhat late to the party.
But surprise surprise stats change with gear.
For my sin atm mastery lost quite some value after 17500.
And vers dropped for outlaw after I got enough of my mastery to vers.
So it is the usual sim it
vague olive
Nah once you get enough haste, it's back to vers only
it's just a soft cap basically
haste value declines rapidly after a certain point again
cursive dock
@vague olive its safe to follow sims? im gonna change enchant and gem if it is..thts quite some gold
vague olive
@cursive dock it is safe. I found that after around ~15% haste, it drops below vers again, at least for me. i did some work and played around with neck enchants (claw/satyr) and have been running sims all night pretty much
cursive dock
alright..yarhhh i like haste..
vague olive
i changed a couple of pieces around, ended up losing about an ilevel but i have significantly more haste
at the cost of mastery, its worth it
cursive dock
yea about the same with me..16 16 12 11
like u said..after 15 haste..value same with vers
glad i keep item in my bank
just enchan n gem
vague olive
i changed my 895 vers heavy, mastery light neck
to a vers heavy, haste light with a socket neck
890
and it seemed to fix all the problems i had
i tried playing around with bti and keeping my original stats cause i had a lot more vers
but i found that haste is pretty much only worth it if youre not trading away any crit
torn dome
Just a side note, use 0 as a talent on the dirty tricks row
APL still uses couge on bosses
vague olive
if the apl uses gouge on bosses but they dont get incapacitated, it still gives the combo point right?
i usually set it to 0, but i just changed my talents to dirty tricks
torn dome
Ye sim gives cps unlike ingame. So just using 0 as a talent fixes it
split sorrel
same issue as sephuz :/
calm dust
Hello. I simmed myself and every Result shows me that Subterfuge is bit better than Nightstalker. Should i trust it or is it just a Feelycraft to go with Nightstalker?
split sorrel
Try to use the Discord built-in search function π
wise jackal
Hello, as a user of both bracers and shoulders and nightstalker (assa) I'm wondering whether I should rupture or envenom after vanish. Simcraft for some reason ruptures after vanish midfight (2:17 min) and envenoms before the end of the fight even though the full duration of rupture could be used (4:20 vanish->env, 5:08 end of the fight), which seems illogical to me as zoldyck increases rupture damage in execute phase by quite a bit. When looking at top rogues with same legendaries around 80% always envenoms after vanish (even in execute phase). Any reasoning for that? I've asked that question before in general and consensus was that rupture is more efficient yet all top rogues go with envenom.
The only thing that comes to my mind is that envenom fully benefits from vendetta (unlike rupture) and increases the proc chance of kingsbane (more lethal poisons)
split sorrel
Play Subter π
merry rapids
Hey! i just got CoF 880 ilvl, and i currently use Memento 895 + Mastery+Agi trinket 885. CoF sims lower for me even tho i have feet am i doing something wrong?
torn steeple
is sub simming a bit high ?
ruby narwhal
Anyone able to help with how one 'reverts' or changes back to another APL in simc?
With Tortoise that is*
ivory canopy
why do you think that @torn steeple
quartz lodge
i have ilvl 822, with feet legendary and trinkets are horn of valor, and memento. But i only sim dps 360099dps. does it have to do with waiting ? since i have waiting 42,34% and when playing i feel im energy starving. im using agonizing poison and venom rush talents. https://gyazo.com/8e74675d2ce98c7a4cfb3065c5baa634 here is sc.
bleak sky
Ask this in general. But the answer is its because of your ilvl. You are only 822. AP sucks until higher gear levels. You need high mastery.
rotund heron
Just a question on stat weights. I simmed my outlaw rogue alt that i dinged last week and it keeps giving haste as its go to stat after agi at 876. Every guide i've found so far doesnt list haste close to that high. Starting to wonder if alacrity is not taken into account properly in the 7.2.3 nightly build. Or is this normal for a fresh rogue?
round canyon
their was a bug in simc that caused everyone to believe haste was worse than it was
this bug was recently fixed causing simc to produce the correct results of haste actually being good
guides havent caught up yet
turbid skiff
is there a source on that
rotund heron
A ok tnx. Will continue my trust in sim results then and follow that:)
turbid skiff
@round canyon where'd you get that info
round canyon
im finding it for you one sec
round canyon
only for outlaw
combat potency was bugged to have a higher proc rate than normal inside simc causing haste to lose value
@turbid skiff heres the commit for it in simc that changed it
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/6d0a1de27d246b3dd4aa8d450f1c468d5c717ae1
you can also look at messages from mystler in this channel for more information via the discord search function
turbid skiff
found it
thank you
how much does everyone think that improves sephuz
if haste is apparently our best secondary stat
round canyon
it still loses value sharply as you gain more of it
much sharper than other stats
at 6k haste its barely behind vers rather than ahead of it for me
chrome eagle
Does Nightblooming Frond sim properly? I just tried to do a sim comparison of a 905Frond vs 905Tirathon's, and Frond's uptime came up as 25%, which is just ludicrous
Or atleast, is not what my experience with it is
round canyon
15 seconds every minute is the expected average proc rate
1rppm and a 15 second duration is 25% uptime
chrome eagle
Oh I see, thanks
sterile jolt
So, looking at the Poison Knives trait - Simc calls it an ST DPS increase for both DP and AP builds, however, according to the tooltip, it only seems to affect anything if you FOK. Does it work differently to how the tooltip describes?
split sorrel
Try to read again the tooltip
robust marten
@sterile jolt i thought the AP bonus only went into affect when you FOK targets with AP already applied (how DP works) but apperantly its just a flat AP buff. which makes no fucking sense why they would smush a single target trait with an aoe trait
hallow wyvern
For Outlaw, with Shoulders/Ring lego, do we sim that with Ghostly Strike or Quick Draw?
maiden cargo
as far as i know you switch to quick draw with wrists only
hallow wyvern
That's what I thought, but sims are showing that with Quick Draw I would pull better DPS than with Ghostly
Just trying to see the difference between Ring and Bracers on my toon
sterile jolt
@split sorrel But I'm finding my DPS going up (slightly) with DP as well in SIMC. I assumed the AP portion of the damage could be taken in context of FOK, which I suppose you're inferring was incorrect - but what about DP?
raw knoll
With the corrected haste I wonder if DoS actually becomes useful for outlaw? Have to play with sims tomorrow.
safe raft
Can anyone take a quick look at my logs and let me know what i can do to improve my dps?
raw knoll
Ask in #228878985210101760
safe raft
alright TY
round canyon
@raw knoll the main problem with draught is that theres no good window to use it in for outlaw
and frond/convergence are both so good aswell
also i would assume that the APL doesnt use it properly for outlaw as im sure no one has tried to fit it in before
raw knoll
Yeah the placement of where to fit it in is what I see as an issue.
mental pumice
so i just simmed myself after i got opus as my second and its telling me to go after vers and crit now
i thought assassin rogues wanted like as close as 200% mast as possible?
solemn plaza
Sims are usually pretty accurate unless you didn't use enough iterations/target error... Maybe try simming different fight types?
I generally do patchwerk and light movement
nocturne goblet
Soo my 860 CoF is simming more than 890 agi mastery Eye of Guarm on outlaw is this legit?
lofty burrow
AR up time is strong m8
raven portal
Hey guys, sorru to ask here if this is wrong, but do any of you know how i can completely delete all my Weak auras?
They've somehow come out of groups and i cant be bothered going through each to click each one..
silver moat
I would quote blizz and tell you to delete the wtf folder but
Go into your wtf folder and see if anything is labeled weak aura or simular and delete ut
modest ravine
is there a new build coming in the next few days?
gusty scaffold
!legendary
acoustic sage
does simcraft have the latest outlaw change sin it, and how do i get that copy? can i just clone the repo and compile ?
laest, i mean for 7.2.5
regal agate
latest outlaw change should be in the latest nightly.
change version to prt befor simming
spark escarp
So haste isn't complete trash for outlaw is what's being said?
spark escarp
My bad, new to rogue so haven't done much research. :c
split sorrel
I can show u plot where it was recommending 20% of the budget on haste
that were done months ago
while in reality, optimum might have been 30
acoustic sage
haste is pretty bad standardly without legendaries, but legendaires change this... mantle makes crit worth less because you get free crit, this helps elevate haste to a secondar useful stat, but vers is still king
spark escarp
Makes sense, thanks for the clarification
acoustic sage
just shoot for versatility and anything, vers and crit are better if you dont have mantle
feral timber
which simcraft from the homepage should i download to sim my character?
7.2.0 release 2?
rustic abyss
Nightly
terse hatch
When simming outlaw what target error should I use? was it 0.5 or 0.05?
south roost
boreal patrol
outlaw sim can take quite a while
vocal bane
with 0.05% error and scaling it takes me anywhere from 30-60 minutes
random veldt
yea shit took me a good 10-15 when i simmed for outlaw
vague olive
What? Just keep iterations medium and length ~300s and error to .01% takes my laptop like 5 mins with scaling
tops
vocal bane
high tier laptop god
torpid roost
Can anyone explain to me the vanish APL for outlaw with Mantle?
I'd have thought that the best time to use it was during artifact with a good roll up but that doesnt seem to be what its doing at all
rich temple
True bearing resets cooldowns, including vanish @torpid roost
torpid roost
I know, its great
rich temple
Hence why you can't just hold vanish for curse
Unless you're speaking solely about opener
In which case post a sample action sequence or maybe bug aethys if it's really wack?
torpid roost
sec, let me get the apl
"actions.stealth+=/vanish,if=(equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin&buff.true_bearing.up&mantle_duration=0)|variable.stealth_condition"
The logic here seems to be "Hold vanish until we meet the stealth_condition, or true bearing is up (no point wasting that CD reduction goodness)". The mantle_duration=0 I have added, because if you roll true bearing on the pull then it will vanish rather than hold until the buff fades.
Its the stealth_condition I'm having trouble disecting:
actions.stealth=variable,name=stealth_condition,value=combo_points.deficit>=2+2*(talent.ghostly_strike.enabled&!debuff.ghostly_strike.up)+buff.broadsides.up&energy>60&!buff.jolly_roger.up&!buff.hidden_blade.up&!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up
Best I can tell this is a bunch of conditions that all need to be met inorder to vanish? Except they're all negated with the ! (not). So vanish when curse of the dread blades isn't up etc.
@split sorrel able to shed any light for me? Apologies if this is all crazy talk, I'm making a few leaps as I'm new at the APL stuff
jagged thorn
Anyone know if delaying KB for 10-15 seconds is worth for vendetta to reset?
Or 20 sometimes for that matter
split sorrel
@jagged thorn check apl you'll find the answer π
@torpid roost can you reformulate ?
I don't get what you "need"
jagged thorn
Don't want to sound like a retard but.. the hell is apl ;>? @split sorrel
split sorrel
you're in #tc-research
this is Asn T19M_NH default profile
packaged with default APL π
actions.kb+=/kingsbane,if=!talent.exsanguinate.enabled&buff.envenom.up&((debuff.vendetta.up&debuff.surge_of_toxins.up)|cooldown.vendetta.remains<=5.8|cooldown.vendetta.remains>=10)
actions.kb+=/kingsbane,if=talent.exsanguinate.enabled&dot.rupture.exsanguinated```first is only if you have Sinister Circulation and don't have boots & cof & more than 6 ranks in MA
torpid roost
I think the APL is wrong, because it doesn't make sense to me... :P
so either I'd like a little insight into why it is right (i'm trying to learn outlaw atm via the apl), otherwise I'm highlighting a mistake for you?
split sorrel
the part that interest you is : |cooldown.vendetta.remains<=5.8|cooldown.vendetta.remains>=10 from the 2nd
@torpid roost yeah mantle duration need to be added
you can PR it or I'll do it one day
this:
actions.stealth=variable,name=stealth_condition,value=combo_points.deficit>=2+2*(talent.ghostly_strike.enabled&!debuff.ghostly_strike.up)+buff.broadsides.up&energy>60&!buff.jolly_roger.up&!buff.hidden_blade.up&!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up
means
you need to have a combo points deficit of 2 + 1 if broadsides + 2 if ghostly trike isn't up (and u have ghostly strike ofc)
wind otter
I've tested delaying KB for vendetta all the time and at my gear (916) it's only a 3k dps loss
split sorrel
your energy must be superior to 60
and you shouldn't have JR, HB nor CotB
altough, this is prolly outdated π
torpid roost
and its that last bit that makes no sense to me
they seem like good things to have up
jagged thorn
As in delaying it is a loss or using it asap? @wind otter
wind otter
delaying is the 3k loss
torpid roost
ah thats the bit I'm missing - its purely vanishing to get ambush?
split sorrel
@jagged thorn @wind otter those things depend heavily on the type of fight "in real conditions", on patchwerk it's not ideal to sync
@torpid roost yes because there is no special mantle support for it
so the APL can be improved in regards to this
jagged thorn
Hmm.. alright thanks @split sorrel @wind otter - guess I need to test it out myself in some lfr's/normals
torpid roost
I was specifically looking for a nice ruleset on when to vanish for mantle xD oh well
wind otter
oh and @split sorrel does the nightstalker bug still exist? I can't replicate it any more
I'm asking here because I saw you hadn't implemented it yet and there would be no point to if it got fixed
split sorrel
it still does
I'll implement it eventually this weekend π
@torpid roost if you need help do not hesitate to ask me, especially if you got a hard time with APL syntax
torpid roost
I can fudge the APL for mantle I think, I just don't know when I should be using vanish with mantle to translate it into code :P
rich temple
@torpid roost I can't help with sim APL, but in a fight you should pretty much be using vanish on CD
With the amount of CD reduction you're getting off TB, you want to pump as many vanishes out as possible
torpid roost
Yes that's the conclusion that I'm coming to after a few different tweaks to the apl ...I thought the true bearing bit was because of CD reduction, but I guess it's also pretty good indicator of when you're not spending your time rolling
rich temple
Yeah, just don't pop it when you're low energy
And maybe worth holding 5-10s or so for curse
torpid roost
Im out for the evening now, but I'll have a play later
modest ravine
i have been informed that the rppm on trinkets has been changed. is this confirmed and is it updated in the new build?
past aurora
does anyone know roughly how far nightblooming frond is overshooting its dmg on sim?
regal agate
it sims correct
past aurora
alright, thank you. just got a 920 entwined foci and its 7k dps under a 905 frond on sim π
wet mango
Hey, could someone point me to a resource that explains how to present Simulationcraft results on a webpage?
turbid skiff
with haste apparently being so much better does that improve the value of slice and dice at all
bleak sky
not on live and ask in general
round jetty
is there a guide on how to sim different artifact traits?
flat lion
Is there a bug with outlaw APL on simc right now, im seeing a huge difference between build 505e246 733k, vs build 8301cad 671k with the same gear / settings
its very consistent too, within 1-2k each time I rerun on each build, using error target 0.03%
torpid roost
There was an combat potency thing left over from WoD still in simc, it's been fixed
flat lion
ah so the old build was bad, the latest nightly is more correct?
torpid roost
That's my understanding - dps dropped, value of haste went up
flat lion
yeah noticed haste was the top for me now too
I put on a nightmare egg shell and got a pretty large boost to dps recently
torpid roost
@split sorrel My attempt at mantle support:
actions.stealth=variable,name=stealth_condition,value=combo_points.deficit>=2+2*(talent.ghostly_strike.enabled&!debuff.ghostly_strike.up)+buff.broadsides.up&energy>60&!buff.jolly_roger.up&!buff.hidden_blade.up&!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up
#actions.stealth+=/ambush
actions.stealth+=/vanish,if=(equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin&mantle_duration=0&!variable.rtb_reroll&!variable.ss_useable)|(!equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin&variable.stealth_condition)
actions.stealth+=/shadowmeld,if=variable.stealth_condition
Sims went from 829k dps to 859k. The biggest difference was made by omitting the ambush line, which was discovered by chance - but it accounted for 20k dps. This only affected mantle, there was practically no difference when I tested for non-mantle (-300 dps).
round canyon
changing the ambush line to the following will give a better damage boost
actions.stealth+=/ambush,if=!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up
torpid roost
that'd explain why it made no difference in the non-mantle case
round canyon
the problem is that you vanish during curse with that APL and with the old one
then ambush during curse which is obviously not how you are suppose to play
torpid roost
That change was discovered by accident (I made a mistake while copying across), and maybe it's not even necessary with !variable.ss_useable in the mantle condition (added after)
The APL also rolls until 3 buffs or true bearing, while the guides suggest 2 buffs. Changing to 2 buffs is a pretty big dps loss in simc - so what should we be doing?
round canyon
the guide is wrong, roll for 3+/tb
torpid roost
okay - are there any up to date guides?
actions.stealth+=/ambush,if=!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up
This is a dps loss for my sims btw
round canyon
it looks like your right
torpid roost
actions.stealth+=/ambush,if=variable.stealth_condition
This will only use ambush for non-mantle users
If you have mantle, then my apl will wait until you're not rerolling, and you aren't ready to sabre slash (which I can only assume means you're about to use run through)
round canyon
heres a better one. it occured to me that it would be ambushing at 5/6 combo points outside curse with that particular APL change
actions.stealth+=/ambush,if=!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up&combo_points.deficit>=2+buff.broadsides.up
torpid roost
quick look thru the sample sequence it looks like it is going vanish > run through every time
late tree
would someone be kind enough to walk me through on how to sim myself
torpid roost
That'd be useful if my APL used vanish for the ambush benefit, but
(!equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin&variable.stealth_condition)
This bit stops that
round canyon
you still want to ambush when you vanish in certain conditions
torpid roost
(equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin&mantle_duration=0&!variable.rtb_reroll&!variable.ss_useable)|
The variable.ss_useable bit at the end I think means that case never occurs
normal slate
@albert#5326 check #rules-and-guides
torpid roost
Maybe I want to remove the !equipped.mantle from the stealth_condition (possibly useful to rename that to ambush_condition) - in which case using that same condition to add ambush to the action list makes sense
actions.stealth+=/ambush,if=variable.ambush_condition
actions.stealth+=/vanish,if=(equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin&mantle_duration=0&!variable.rtb_reroll&!variable.ss_useable)|variable.ambush_condition
actions.stealth+=/shadowmeld,if=variable.ambush_condition```there's no difference in sim dps between this and the case where you never ambush though
round canyon
~~@torpid roost its really really ugly but i got ambush to fit in the way i personally use it and it provided a damage boost
actions.stealth+=/vanish,if=(equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin&mantle_duration=0&!variable.rtb_reroll&!variable.ss_useable)|(energy>60&Combo_points.deficit=2+buff.broadsides.up)&!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up
actions.stealth+=/ambush,if=!buff.curse_of_the_dreadblades.up&combo_points.deficit>=2+buff.broadsides.up
actions.stealth+=/shadowmeld,if=variable.ambush_condition```~~
novel pier
Anyone having issues running the latest simcraft x64 nightly build? it wont even engage after installing.
regal agate
works fine for me, but i did use the archive file instead of the installer
true jetty
which simcraft should i download? the nightly build or the 7.2 release 2? seems to me that the nightly build is more of a beta/testing thing?
finite thunder
always the latest nighttly build
nightly is more about fixing stuffs and updating the apl (they test before releasing to the nightly)
and implementing hotfixes too
south needle
!trinkets
runic hinge
!trinkets
tawny cradle
Guys the apl is using goremaw as the first skill on pull or am I wrong?
regal agate
yes that is about to change π
deep bloom
is it normal that Balanced Blades trait sims higher than Serrated edge for example?
should i trust that?
jolly venture
There is nothing wrong with that.
keen wagon
Recently leveled up my rogue and was wondering if anyone have a decent pawn string?
When i simmed my toon it values crit over mastery which should not be the case
raw knoll
I would ask in #228878985210101760 - my guess is your ilvl is low and it may be seeing more value from bleeds.
keen wagon
ill give it a try
split moon
sephuzs or cinidaria for assassination?
weary parcel
rancid lark
I use the boots + legs cuz i haven't shoulder + bracer
regal agate
Jα΅Λ£α΅: Any simple questions like 'what trinkets do I use π€' and 'what is my stat priority' will be removed from this channel immediately. Keep discussion related to simulations/maths
just want to emphasize that.
tawny cradle
@regal agate goremaw on pull isnt correct?
regal agate
no
tawny cradle
sorry but Im really confused wheter its correct or not to use goremaw. when should I use it?
saw a rogue doing m guldan only using goremaw around the 1 minute mark
maiden cargo
as far as i know you use it once you start starving on energy
rich arch
guys wheres most updated sims?
tepid pulsar
umbral tapir
@tawny cradle i tend to use when im going to be nrg starved and i have t refresh sod cuz the nrg regen and the 3 free finishers make the refresh basically not forcing u to waste one shadowstrike but i use it on feel so work with it and check where it suits u
noble pendant
so I play a high 898 sin rogue, CoF, DoS, boots shoulders lego's. When I simulate the difference between nightstalker and subterfuge, nightstalker pulls ahead by about 10-15k. I still everyone using subter though, so is mine just weird?
turbid skiff
subter is only better at extreme mastery levels where vanish envenoming is better than vanish rupture
i think
random veldt
that's not the reasoning behind it no
whispyr i suggest checking to see how out of date your simc is
torpid valve
@turbid skiff wouldn't it be the other way around? nightstalker being better ( or atleast super close to subterfuge ) at extreme mastery levels?
maiden cargo
@turbid skiff but vanish-envenom works better with NS
?
@torpid valve thats correct
tawny cradle
That is what I was thinking thanks @umbral tapir
cerulean crypt
im playin sub omgbak. leg shoulders and boots. 4pc. playin with weaponmaster on first row.
maiden cargo
How do you sim rotations? Seems complicated
runic hinge
i could be wrong
tribal scroll
@wicked spear @runic hinge this is a discussion for #228878985210101760 lads
Gonna remove your posts now, productive discussion is great just make sure its not in the wrong channels to avoid spam
tribal scroll
Ravenholdt is happy to announce that we have implemented SimCraftBot, a discord automated Simc runner that will allow you to sim your character! To reduce spam in other channels, please keep it to #308849009844420610. To sim your character, type the following:
To sim for just DPS: !sim region(na or eu)/server/character name
To sim for DPS and stat weights: !sim region(na or eu)/server/character name -s
maiden cargo
unique harbor
don't work with cyrillic letters(
rotund violet
@unique harbor yes it does
trail musk
How is the outlaw APL in simC?
civic cradle
its very nice
trail musk
I was wondering about the APL because it was saying on average slice n dice was a 10% dps increase for my gear level, granted it's a new rogue so rather lowish.
disclaimer, this was using the nightly build if that matters lol
trail musk
hmm maybe i was using an outdated build because i updated it again and now its only a 5% increase using SnD over marked
civic cradle
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
regal agate
"Hmm, we never mentionned it here, but our try to implement RtB as it works on the PTR is not okay. So any 7.2.5 RtB sims is not valid."
#tc-updates
trail musk
oh, hmm interesting. so the nightly build is for 7.2.5? thought it was for 7.2.0
regal agate
the latest nightly is for ptr + live. you can switch the version in the option menue
trail musk
oh gotcha, yeah i was on the live version
hmm strangely enough death from above is then simming even higher, like another 8% above SnD, which is going against everything i was reading in the guides trying to figure this class out >.<
coming from a brewmaster, i just really missed being a dps
modest ravine
is there any particular reason outlaw is using gouge in the apl?
past token
@modest ravine if you have the dirty tricks talent, simc will use gouge
change that talent row to 0 in your simc
modest ravine
also it says to use prolonged power on the pull but i thought we were supposed to use old war
oh ok. i'll change that when i sim tonight
just making sure there was no benefit to using it. unless it still gives a cp on bosses
modest ravine
are convergence of fates procs shown in the apl?
bleak sky
@past token Or you can just delete that line in the apl π
past token
@bleak sky ahh you're right! slipped my mind
light hedge
which pot is better for assasination? π
oak jay
light hedge
ty !
crystal widget
how good is the chronoshard on sin rogue?
heavy moon
check pins
deep torrent
hm tryin to figure out the relics for assasin and if i undeerstand it right if i have a 870 master assasin the Toxic Blade one must be 28+12=40 ilvl higer to beat it?
i have read the post about how to switch the relics to sim it but its to different so i just cant work it out
torpid roost
value of relics depends on your legendaries - boots increase value of master assassin, mantle increases value of envenom dmg
normal mural
So I have mantle but no greenskins for legendaries. From what I'm reading in the APL, it doesn't have me using Between the Eyes unless I have greenskins. From my understanding, if I can guarantee a crit from BtE, then it's worth using. It hits harder from my experience in game as well than run through crits. Only with mantle buff up obviously. Am I reading this wrong? Wouldn't it be ideal to use BtE within mantle buff even w/o greenskins?
ember gyro
Guys , i have 46 traits going for the 47. whats its better Mutilate, Master Alchemist or Poison Knives?
pastel sundial
i got 3 RT relicts - so you'd say you play the opener with RT unless you get need to generate bracer procs with bte?
also if you dont get opportunity procs but have TB you just keep using saber slash + rt until buffs about to run out or you get opportunity proc right?
torpid roost
@normal mural Adding this to the end of the BTE line should test that - it was a DPS loss for myself, but I don't have any relevant relics
|(equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin&mantle_duration>0&!buff.sprint.up)
ebon gate
are they going to nerf assassination in 7.2.5?
plush shard
hav a 930 weapon is it worth to change a 920 envenom relik against a 915 ma relic ? hav 1 920 env 1 900 ma 1 900 rupture dmg
split narwhal
Sim it
mighty pawn
Eisten this is not the place for that topic
viral herald
was outlaw nerfed recently? i "lost" 100k simdps only by updating to simcrafts newest nightly build
fierce iron
I think there was a bug that stayed there for long. It was corrected recently
viral herald
so now its my true simdps?
fierce iron
It's more close to reality, yes
viral herald
meh.. okay, thanks dude
normal mural
@torpid roost That's a realm I haven't discovered yet. How would I add that to the APL? I couldn't find it in a tab. Do I need to go into the files and edit it, or is there a way to do it within the program?
torpid roost
Are you running the desktop client?
normal mural
ya
torpid roost
When you import your character, has your characters info at the top, then a bunch of APL, and below that your characters gear etc