#tc-research | Ravenholdt | Page 21

safe aspen Apr 11, 2017, 1:18 AM

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I don't know if it counts pets expiring or something like that as a death

round canyon Apr 11, 2017, 1:18 AM

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im sure the simulation is spot on with its uptime

safe aspen Apr 11, 2017, 1:18 AM

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but I consistently had 13-16% uptime on the 3 buffs

bleak heart Apr 11, 2017, 1:20 AM

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Yeah that's about what I get on it (I have a 905 one)

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It's about +/- 2-3% but around that area.

safe aspen Apr 11, 2017, 1:20 AM

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so 40~% total?

bleak heart Apr 11, 2017, 1:21 AM

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The buffs can overlap

safe aspen Apr 11, 2017, 1:21 AM

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exactly

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and u add the uptimes

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of each buff

bleak heart Apr 11, 2017, 1:21 AM

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Yeah, roughly that

safe aspen Apr 11, 2017, 1:21 AM

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simc has it at like half those values

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so

round canyon Apr 11, 2017, 1:21 AM

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can someone please provide multiple logs of this occuring?

safe aspen Apr 11, 2017, 1:22 AM

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like I can't swear there were never any deaths

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but it is 1 proc per death

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right?

bleak heart Apr 11, 2017, 1:22 AM

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I think so

safe aspen Apr 11, 2017, 1:22 AM

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I'm trying to find my old logs right now

bleak heart Apr 11, 2017, 1:22 AM

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I swapped to it because it was simming higher than my 880 draught even though I have shoulders

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And that seemed odd.

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And now I am like "Welp, not going back." after trying it out.

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 1:23 AM

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Adjusting the APL to use my DoS outside of shoulders generally yields higher dps for me.

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Compared to inside the mantle buff.

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Re: momento, sans deaths, I always found it to have roughly 30% up time.

ashen crater Apr 11, 2017, 1:34 AM

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Here's my logs from last night. I had memento on for all 6 of our kills. Filterring out evernts after 1 player has died, I had 19.37% uptime. Including player deaths I had 27.74% uptime.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yMfwzdp1PkGQxZr4#view=analytical&boss=-2&difficulty=0&type=auras&wipes=2&source=65&cutoff=1

safe aspen Apr 11, 2017, 1:35 AM

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I dunno these old logs seem corrupted

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there's like 40 people in our mythic raids?

round canyon Apr 11, 2017, 1:36 AM

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thats actually below the expected 22ish% uptime for a no death run

ashen crater Apr 11, 2017, 1:36 AM

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yeah, 6 kills is a small sample size

safe aspen Apr 11, 2017, 1:37 AM

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anyways from what I can tell going through these old logs it seems to be around 30% uptime with the occasional death

strong quest Apr 11, 2017, 1:37 AM

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QUESTION: apl for subterfuge doesnt seem to reapply garrote on first vanish is this correct, QUESTION 2, does nightstalker bug often by giving the first auto attack after exiting stealth 50% more damage? and if yes on this question how cani prevent this ?

safe aspen Apr 11, 2017, 1:37 AM

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evidently I was just talking out of my ass

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I'm sure I've seen those numbers though, must have been looking at logs of wipes or something I guess?

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regardless, don't trust what I've said...

merry pike Apr 11, 2017, 1:54 AM

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Mao my apl uses garrote on vanish

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 2:02 AM

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The new APL doesn't for me as well, I'm still using an old one with some customisations.

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 2:43 AM

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Doesn't do it for me either

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I don't think that opener apl is correct at all

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If you're not using kingsbane after garrote like the old APL

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I suggest this as an opener

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📎 unknown.png

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spread the envenom for SoT, have 100% uptime on envenom buff, 100% kingsbane in vendetta, and you have plenty of pooled energy for vanish

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You catch the last ticks of kingsbane in 100% crit for maximum damage

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if someone wants to pick holes in that opener, that would be great 😄

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Open to improving it 😃

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 2:51 AM

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^same one i use w/subterfuge

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 2:54 AM

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except of course this one shown is a 4cp mut before vanish

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📎 unknown.png

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this one is without

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:44 AM

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📎 opener.JPG

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Thats the one i've been rolling with, but your right that it does end up with screwing your energy

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:46 AM

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Yeah, from what I read in this channel a couple days ago, that was supposedly 10%less damage on the opener overall

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:46 AM

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hmm 10% seems like a lot, not sure where they come up with that number

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:48 AM

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What was that opening for?

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:48 AM

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I guess the other thing to note is that with your golden trait, you're holding KB for 20% of its uptime in your opener.

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Subterfuge, shoulders

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:49 AM

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Yeah, that is true so you legit lose 2.5s of kingsbane cd

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because by envenom the AP has obviously stacked to 5

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that's the only downside I could see

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:49 AM

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its closer to 5s of KB cd

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:49 AM

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is that you lose the kb cd

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:50 AM

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i.e. using KB on your second move as opposed to your 7th

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:50 AM

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Yeah

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:51 AM

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I've considered throwing in a DoS between the 2 mantle buffs on speed runs, the only time i use it

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:51 AM

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this is my average kingsbane stack damage with that opener

📎 unknown.png

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:51 AM

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you'd have to compare both side by side, since 2 seperate people couldn't compare due to stats, relics etc

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:52 AM

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📎 unknown.png

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that's delayed

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But

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on AVERAGE

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:53 AM

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i'd compare your total damage between the 2

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:53 AM

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they both seems to do around the same damage

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just gonna do that now, yeah

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:53 AM

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The one thing to note though

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:53 AM

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From my averages

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:53 AM

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The opener i showed seems skewed to hero on pull

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:54 AM

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it was 3.1M with 2nd action as kingsbane

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:54 AM

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I can't remember exactly, but i think i remember feeling pretty starved without hero

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:54 AM

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7th kingsbane it averages to hang on

calm sinew Apr 11, 2017, 3:54 AM

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So, looking for some legit advice here. 901 assassination. I have shoulders & boots for 95% of encounters, and FoK-cloak for skorp. I also have Prydaz for questing and world shit, and Valeera-healing-pants for hard solo stuff like appearance 7.2 challenges. ... Just got Kil'jaedan's Burning Wish. WTF use for it would I EVER have? Or should it just rot in my bank? I can't see any use whatsoever, but please, enlighten me if I'm missing something.

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All sims w/ multiple mobs show it less dps over cloak too, btw.

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:55 AM

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Just over 5M

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:55 AM

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shrug not every leggo is gonna be a winner when you have BIS

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:56 AM

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Kingsbane stacks wayyyy harder in opener with later kingsbane

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:56 AM

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Maybe in the next patch it might be decent if the trinkets available are trash.

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Hmm that does seem pretty significant change

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so is that just KB damage or total damage?

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:56 AM

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KB damage in opener only

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:56 AM

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you're just using training dummy?

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:56 AM

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the first kingsbane

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Na, this is from my logs

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I'm comparing a star augur log to botanist, just different openers (both no hero)

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:57 AM

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I guess you'd need to factor in the extra CD time though

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I.e. holding vanish an extra 5ish? seconds, and KB the same.

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:57 AM

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It means that your cd's are

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~10ish seconds delayed

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for the rest of the fight

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If you're doing speed kills

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then the kingsbane first is better

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:58 AM

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You could probably sim this

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:58 AM

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Probably, but I don't know how really

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The current apl doesn't do it correctly

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Well I say "correctly"

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I mean

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my way

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xD

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 3:59 AM

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Was gonna say 😛

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 3:59 AM

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And I'm not simc expert

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no*

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I did a night of star augur progress with your opener

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so I'm gonna do a night with mine

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and compare the results

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should I average out opener dps

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for the same time frame?

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so for when vendetta falls off?

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Perhaps the first 30s of the fight

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first 30s seems fair

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gonna do that and see what comes of it

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:11 AM

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Just looking back on your opener

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Why wouldn't you just do the same thing as the opener I showed but delay the second vanish for like 4 seconds?

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:12 AM

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Because then you'll be energy starved for the 6s Crit

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:14 AM

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So if you drop 2 muts in that time after your 2nd envenom in the first mantle, I geuss yeah, you'd end up dragging that vanish out to get energy

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depends on hero I suppose

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:15 AM

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Yeah, and it's better to go the safe route, keep maximum SoT uptime, and have vanish with high energy for the last 6s of Kingsbane

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Hero would mean you could probably fit one extra Envenom in the vanish window

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:15 AM

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Not a fan of wasting that much CD uptime

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Ideally, with KB as the second move, you'd vanish around the 9s mark for KB's end to be in the crit window

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However, looking at the charts again, I have a feeling you'll get a better amount of poison application doing the KB as a second move - using the times there, the crit window fades on the last 2s of KB

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I'd have to see if I can delay an extra 1s before 2nd vanish without energy capping, I have a feeling without hero, its feasible.

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:20 AM

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Yeah, but you will very likely lose SoT uptime holding it, because that is static

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:20 AM

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Alternatively, a FOK or poisoned knife if you're desperate for filler before second vanish but that feels strange.

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:21 AM

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And that matters a lot for the envenom during Crit buff

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In fact, not lose SoT

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But you'll have 8% SoT

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:21 AM

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i think at most you'd lose 1s of SoT just before your first mantle finisher

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:22 AM

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And from what I recall, a 10% SoT does not overwrite an 8% one if you clip

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:22 AM

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I mean, its only a downer if AP is re-applied in that 1s

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i think it does

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The next AP overwrites the old with whatever the current SOT % is

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:23 AM

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There was a mention a long while back that it snapshot the first clip and used that throughout, so on occasion it was worth letting it drop to apply a 10%

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But that was testing pending iirc

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:24 AM

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Hmm thats easy to test on a target dummy

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I've not heard of that, thats a bit old world snapshotting.

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:25 AM

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The only issue I have with Kingsbane on second opener is that you obviously trade Kingsbane stacking for the Kingsbane cdr

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It has to be one or the other, can't have both

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:25 AM

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Well I'm not sure you really do though.

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As I said, if you delay your vanish by 1s, you'll only 1s of mantle buff, and I don't think the SOT is detrimental.

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:26 AM

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You have 3 seconds of Kingsbane (so about 21% of Kingsbane) without an Envenom buff up

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:26 AM

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Further, I'm curious but haven't counted, I have a feeling the KB opener puts more moves during KB

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since you've got all those builder/finisher sets inside KB rather than prior to KB

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so more moves, more poison applications.

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:27 AM

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But less chance to apply

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30% less chance

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:27 AM

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hmm not sure about not having an envenom buff up for 3s, i'll have to scroll up

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whats a 4p envenom, 6s?

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:27 AM

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I'm not sure, you'd have to check

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My WA has a bar that shows how long is left

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I don't know actual timings

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:28 AM

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my last finisher before vanish is at 7s

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my next envenom is at 9s without delay

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with delay at 10s

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not sure where your seeing anything drop

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:28 AM

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You Kingsbane second yes?

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At 2s

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:28 AM

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Yes

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:29 AM

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Your first Envenom

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Is at 5s

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That is 3s without 30% increased poison application chance

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:30 AM

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thats no envenom buff for 3s but I do 3 moves, i nthe following 3s, you do 1 move in your opener.

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I mean within 3s of KB

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Sorry, incomplete sentence.

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:30 AM

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Isn't poison applied via auto attacks?

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:31 AM

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It can be applied on all attacks

round canyon Apr 11, 2017, 4:31 AM

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poisons are applied by all melee attacks

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so yes

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:31 AM

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Not abilities?

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:31 AM

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Including abilities

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:33 AM

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Well, then what it comes down to is this

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:33 AM

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Anyway, much of a muchness I'm sure. Its given me some food for thought about adding a bit of a delay between my vanishes. Potentially even inserting DoS if I dump a filler in there.

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Interestingly, seeing a lot more people go with NS lately, I might have to give it another go.

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:34 AM

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Sacrifice Kingsbane cd for higher Kingsbane damage (as I do think Kingsbane stacks damage higher with my opener), or not sacrifice Kingsbane cd to get out Kingsbane on average 10-12s earlier on a fight

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And still get pretty good Kingsbane stacking

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Nightstalker vanish > Envenom

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Is what I think a lot of people are doing

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However, I sim 8k higher with subterfuge

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7.2 shook a lot of thing up, and it's really not set in stone yet imo

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I think atm it's "do what you can perform with"

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As both are relatively close

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:36 AM

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subterfuge also becomes significantly better if there's an add you can also get a garrote up on

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:37 AM

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Yes, for example mythic trilliax

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:37 AM

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^

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:37 AM

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Or the Holy grail of hc botanist

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Vanish, Garrote x3

round canyon Apr 11, 2017, 4:37 AM

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mythic trilliax multi dotting isnt that great

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:37 AM

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as much as i hate that fight, yeah it's prety sweet hitting that 3x garrote

round canyon Apr 11, 2017, 4:37 AM

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since damage to the adds does nothing and isnt counted on warcraftlogs

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all your getting is some minor energy gains

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if you also poison them

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:37 AM

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The adds?

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:37 AM

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nah the main adds count

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the scrubbers don't

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:38 AM

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We're talking about the big add on mythic

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:38 AM

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Yeah, the mirrior image thing

round canyon Apr 11, 2017, 4:38 AM

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my B so use to people in this discord only talking about heroic fights

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:38 AM

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That said, subterfuge can fuck your timings significantly

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:38 AM

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aha gotchya

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:38 AM

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Since you need to keep an eye on garrote CD before vanishing

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:38 AM

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Yes

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:39 AM

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true, though i never have a problem personally

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the icons are right beside each other in my WA's

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:39 AM

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But same with Nightstalker can fuck with you by not having 5cp before vanish in your vendetta window

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Both have negatives

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Both have positives

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:39 AM

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also true, though probably easier to manage

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personally i roll with subterfuge

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:40 AM

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I think thats an easier thing to deal with, since you're spenidng time pooling prior to vanish anyway

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:40 AM

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i prefer it, perform better with it too

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:40 AM

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I roll subterfuge as well, but mostly got used to it

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:40 AM

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i like that they sim so close, there's a real choice to be made

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:40 AM

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Subterfuge is simpler imo

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:40 AM

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tried nightstalker the other day, had a brain fart on my opener and was like "nope nope"

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:40 AM

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yeah it is, and i got used to it too w/9sec from vanish

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:40 AM

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On release

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Reclear*

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I'm gonna roll alacrity

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Cos idgaf about parses and its fun

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:41 AM

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i actually never played sin with NS (got mantle, THEN switched to sin)

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i'd love to be less limited by AP, it's just so strong

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:41 AM

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Yeah, AP is a 40k dps increase for me haha

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:41 AM

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rip

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:41 AM

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But I do like alacrity

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And exsanguinate is just a troll talent at this point

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:42 AM

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Its funny though, AP isn't really keeping us glued to bosses like most suggest. Like, its a factor. But having such short and non-lining up ST CDs

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Removing AP isn't really gonna fix that

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:42 AM

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alacrity is nice, very passive but beats AP limiting your target swapping like mad

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:42 AM

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"oh, can't switch off boss, I have KB on" "Oh, now I have vendetta on"

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:42 AM

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true but with AP

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it's not even worth rupturing most adds

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:42 AM

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not sure about that

round canyon Apr 11, 2017, 4:42 AM

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yeah but with AP you can never switch off

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without it you can briefly switch off very easily

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:42 AM

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I always rupture adds for energy

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:42 AM

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unless you'll be getting to 5 stacks via FoK and shit

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i'm pretty sure it's a DPS loss if you rupture something that won't get 5 stacks

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:43 AM

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You only need 1 stack for energy purposes

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:43 AM

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I'll be suprised if thats true.

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:43 AM

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well

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lemme rescind that, i haven't seen data

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but it's definitely a pain in the ass knowing that any dmg you deal to that target will be ~40% less effective

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:44 AM

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It is 100% dependant on how long the add lives

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 4:44 AM

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just see them as boosting your ST dps 😛

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:44 AM

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even if it lives less than the total rupture time though, if you can dump energy before it dies

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the refund is the same as what you would have gotten anyway, no?

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:44 AM

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Like on chrono those 4 small adds out of the big one are fok

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Nothing more haha

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:44 AM

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definitely

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i tend to try to get KJ to line up with the 4 too but...

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that's cause i have to use that shit anyway LOL

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:45 AM

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You're better off using KJ after the interrupt

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:45 AM

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even then though, i'm conscious of the fact that i gotta hold off for at least a couple FoK's

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for AP stacks

round canyon Apr 11, 2017, 4:45 AM

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if you use KJ on the 4 adds+boss your getting a 400% damage increase compared to nothing

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:45 AM

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^

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exactly

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:45 AM

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Chrono takes increased damage after the interrupt

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:45 AM

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400% though?

round canyon Apr 11, 2017, 4:46 AM

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thats much larrger than the interrupt

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4 adds+boss is 5 times the normal damage

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thats a 400% increase

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:46 AM

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I didn't think the radius of KJ was that large

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:46 AM

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it'll hit them all

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:46 AM

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And sometimes the boss is stacked slightly off if your tank is potato

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:46 AM

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okay true, but that's not under your control

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even hitting just 1 would be better

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if the boss is off to the side, i'll quickly target one and send it that way to hit all 4

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:47 AM

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Yeah, the only reason why I suggested it is because I thought it didn't have THAT large a radius, as I don't have it

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:47 AM

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it's mostly cause boss is stacked on top

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but i'm pretty sure it hits all 4 even if you just target one of them individually

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:48 AM

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My last mythic Chronomatic, I only did 997k

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:48 AM

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how long was the fight?

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:48 AM

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So I'm still fucking up my cd usage

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3:13

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:48 AM

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rip

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i love my guild and raid, and i'm by no means topping DPS every fight or anything but

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:48 AM

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I was 906 then however

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:48 AM

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we don't have the dps to get the kill that quick

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:48 AM

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I am now 911

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Do this week's reclear

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Should be hype af

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:49 AM

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well i finally got a CoF LOL

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895 socketed, not incredible but damn beats the hell out of not even getting one off LFR

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pretty damn stoked for this thing

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:49 AM

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Mine is 895 also, replaced an 875 I had since NH release

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:49 AM

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nice

split sorrel Apr 11, 2017, 4:50 AM

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#tc-research

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:50 AM

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rip, my bad

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bringing it back though

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:50 AM

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Got carried away

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:50 AM

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pain in the ass that NBF sims higher than CoF

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i can only pick one cause of KJ

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:50 AM

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Wait, it does?

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:50 AM

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for me at least, i'll resim to confirm

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:51 AM

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How many ma relics/ma trait points do you have

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:51 AM

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2 MA 1 envenom

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no boots

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and don't have the new MA trait yet

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:51 AM

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That still seems really off to me

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:51 AM

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so, pretty bad there

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:52 AM

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The CDR on vendetta has way more worth

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:52 AM

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http://puu.sh/vgqz3/ba9c1a07a5.png
http://puu.sh/vgqzd/f257f9d6e1.png

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agreed

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that's why i'm using CoF over it anyway

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:53 AM

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I am also 2MA1TB, with boots cof and 4/4 MA

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Where is that from o.O

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:53 AM

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simC has it as 4.5% of dmg (NBF) which is reasonable

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raidbots.com, awesome website

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:53 AM

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That's not all it goes though

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Recursive strikes is not the only damage it provides

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:54 AM

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just a server that hosts simC

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https://raidbots.com/simbot

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uh, that's all it provides compared to CoF

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same agi

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:54 AM

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That's true, but I recommend simming in latest nightly build yourself anyway

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:54 AM

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it's updated to nightly

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:54 AM

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🤔

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:55 AM

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mmm well actually, they update every night one hour from now so

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it's not updated to the absolute most current

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but i've consistently simmed higher with frond

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:55 AM

#

But do you perform higher with it?

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:56 AM

#

just got my CoF an hour ago LOL

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:56 AM

#

Ffs

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:56 AM

#

my frond only averages around ~2.5-3% dmg for most pulls anyway

#

so i'm going with CoF

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:57 AM

#

Frond is way more variable than cof, that is true

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:57 AM

#

obviously once i can replace KJ though i'll use both, so it won't be any problem

#

just a pain that it drops my sim DPS

#

and i suppose it also drops my max DPS even if the sim is too generous

#

since frond could get lucky and proc like mad

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:58 AM

#

Do you only have kj+shoulders?

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:58 AM

#

+prydaz and thraxi, get@me

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 4:58 AM

#

Try simming prydaz+ CoF + nbf

#

See how that comes out

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:59 AM

#

here are some sims i did before

#

http://puu.sh/vgqR1/35d4a2f962.png

#

where the NBF is replacing KJ, and the other trinket is the 895 CoF (w/socket)

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 5:00 AM

#

But that's not what you have :o

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 5:00 AM

#

?

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 5:00 AM

#

Like I said, try the nbf+CoF with prydaz

#

And compare to nbf+kj+current nevk

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 5:00 AM

#

will do but, i believe i've done it before and it won't sim higher than KJ

#

especially since i pulled a 925 neck

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 5:01 AM

#

Hey, it's worth checking, just in case

#

I do like checking all my legendary combinations for different situations

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 5:02 AM

#

i'm pretty sure i simmed the hell out of it when i got it, but who knows might have changed

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 5:03 AM

#

It's like re checking neck enchants after acquiring new gear

#

Trained solder Sims higher than Satyr for me atm

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 5:04 AM

#

aha well i've been lax on that too, i think i simmed it recently actually but

#

since you mentioned it i'm resimming

#

i didn't even know trained soldier could get past satyr till fairly recently

#

oh right sim finished btw: http://puu.sh/vgrbI/c299d1ce70.png @atomic flame

#

kind of as expected, maybe someday prydaz will miraculously beat KJ

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 5:08 AM

#

Well, I think by then you'll have a more desirable legendary

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 5:10 AM

#

aha we'll see, 50/50 on next legendary

#

bracers sim almost as high as boots though (cause i've got terrible wrists, and 925 boots)

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 5:11 AM

#

Yes they do for me too

#

thre is a 8k difference

#

for my gear setup

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 5:12 AM

#

mine's extremely tight, ~2k

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 5:12 AM

#

have 905 wrists with crit > mastery

#

but 890 boots with mastery > vers

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 5:12 AM

#

i've got 925 grovetenders, and 900 wrists with.... ugh.... haste

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 5:12 AM

#

😦

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 5:13 AM

#

yeah, they sim higher than 890 bracers of impossible choices though

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 5:14 AM

#

that's what I have at 905

#

I want better statted wrists

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 5:18 AM

#

yeah i'm with ya, gonna have to check dungeon loot tables and try to farm it i guess

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 5:21 AM

#

DHT drops mastery > crit

#

that is the best

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 5:31 AM

#

beauty, will be on the look out for 10+ DHT i guess

sterile jolt Apr 11, 2017, 6:51 AM

#

are your haste wrists the ones with super high mastery?

#

Swordsingers, thats what i'm using

#

have haste but very little compared to 3x mastery

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 8:05 AM

#

What is the recommended number of iterations to sim at

viscid sonnet Apr 11, 2017, 9:08 AM

#

default is fine, but if a comparison is really close ill rerun it with 50k

crisp pasture Apr 11, 2017, 9:32 AM

#

Can anyone tell me how to run multiple sims in one go?

viscid sonnet Apr 11, 2017, 10:38 AM

#

append copy=Whateveryouwannacallit

#

to the end

#

and add the liens that differ below that

wind lotus Apr 11, 2017, 12:39 PM

#

I noticed running different specific poisons in apply_poison with copy results in no change, can any1 confirm? (like [...]deadly=wound)

split sorrel Apr 11, 2017, 12:41 PM

#

with type=poison ?

#

link me the report

#

errr

#

the profile

lunar trout Apr 11, 2017, 2:58 PM

#

Opener with Subterfuge, Mantle and 52 traits - 11/04/17 SimC Nightly APL Sample Sequence:
Garrote -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> Kingsbane -> Mutilate -> Envenom -> Vanish -> Mutilate -> Envenom -> Mutilate -> Envenom -> Mutilate -> Envenom.

It seems a little odd to Kingsbane then Mutilate after Vendetta before even getting Envenom or SoT up. Anyone have thoughts on this or the rest of the above?

#

I guess just starting the Kingsbane cooldown rather than waiting to Mutilate -> Vendetta -> Envenom -> Kingsbane is preferable.

gleaming raft Apr 11, 2017, 3:59 PM

#

!simc

#

sorry

pure condor Apr 11, 2017, 4:49 PM

#

@lunar trout i think thats the same thing that i asked aethys yesterday

#

there are probably some energy shenanigans in apl going on

#

in that specific sample sequence you were probably at below 90 energy before the 4th cast

#

so that vendettas "energy deficit > 60 + 20 (bleed regen)" trigger gets popped

#

yesterday i had the same sample sequence you posted when i had ~89,5 energy before the 4th cast

#

and after rerunning the sim with same options i got a different sample sequence with mut being cast as 4th cast with 90+ energy before that cast

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 4:53 PM

#

that seems odd, no garrote after vanish either?

vagrant halo Apr 11, 2017, 4:55 PM

#

my 43 trait i pick MA , what shall i go for 44 , toxic blade or gushing wound ? i have 4 piece set bonus and shoulder and boots, running 2 MA and 1 envenom damage relics

pure condor Apr 11, 2017, 4:55 PM

#

sim it

sullen dagger Apr 11, 2017, 4:59 PM

#

i have a similar set up miji

#

and toxic blade sims higher for me than both rupture traits combined

gleaming raft Apr 11, 2017, 5:00 PM

#

I see the same problema, no refresh garrote after vanish

#

On the opener rotation with mantle

vagrant halo Apr 11, 2017, 5:02 PM

#

thanks seraphiel, so toxic blade i should pick next yeah?

sullen dagger Apr 11, 2017, 5:02 PM

#

you should probably sim yourself to be sure

#

i was just telling you what my results were

vagrant halo Apr 11, 2017, 5:03 PM

#

i am bad at running sims so i'd just trust u cos stjern is also picked toxic blade as his 44th

#

how much higher u simed ?

#

with toxic blade

regal agate Apr 11, 2017, 5:04 PM

#

you can run a simulation on the new traits, how to do that is pinned in #228878985210101760 thats or #228879234540503040 are also where this discussion belongs to

gleaming raft Apr 11, 2017, 5:59 PM

#

Hey guys, my simc stats (Class=Rogue, Spec=Assassination, Agility=18.51, CritRating=14.19, HasteRating=7.79, MasteryRating=18.59, Versatility=15.21 ) - Anyone have the same? Mastery = Agility?

sterile gale Apr 11, 2017, 6:00 PM

#

For my gear mastery > agi by a little bit.

novel pier Apr 11, 2017, 6:00 PM

#

In some cases people are getting Mastery > Agi

#

^^

gleaming raft Apr 11, 2017, 6:04 PM

#

Versatility better than critical is weird

zinc pecan Apr 11, 2017, 6:20 PM

#

do you have shoulders?

gleaming raft Apr 11, 2017, 6:55 PM

#

Yes

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 7:22 PM

#

vers > crit is normal with shoulders

tawny cradle Apr 11, 2017, 10:07 PM

#

guys this sim on the roguedpsguide site is saying insignia gives more dps than shoulders?

#

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=E269C12457D12FAC!117&ithint=file%2Cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AHxBKV_biTNzfRY

robust marten Apr 11, 2017, 10:13 PM

#

doesnt see anything about legos thoere

#

and im certain those sims are outdated

#

using a 7.1.5 build of simc

tawny cradle Apr 11, 2017, 10:15 PM

#

Probably

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 10:15 PM

#

check the 'main' tab

#

last update: Jan 17 2017

#

pretty outdated

tawny cradle Apr 11, 2017, 10:17 PM

#

Yea didnt see it

hasty raft Apr 11, 2017, 10:24 PM

#

anyone simming less than usual for no apparent reason?

rich temple Apr 11, 2017, 10:27 PM

#

@hasty raft i'm simming the same, did you switch builds recently?

#

also, what spec?

atomic flame Apr 11, 2017, 10:28 PM

#

Are you simming with alacrity too 😂

#

My pal was importing me the other day fro armory, saying we simmed the same without realising my armory had alacrity lol

hasty raft Apr 11, 2017, 10:29 PM

#

same gear same build

#

yesterday 729k, right now 670k

#

seems legit

#

for some reason my kingsbane's dmg sims low AF

#

idk

#

compared to yesterday

ashen crater Apr 11, 2017, 10:40 PM

#

Same settings?

hasty raft Apr 11, 2017, 10:40 PM

#

yeah all same

#

kingsbane sims for 4.9% of my overall dmg kappa

viscid sonnet Apr 11, 2017, 10:43 PM

#

uh

#

something is off with ur profile then

#

im simming 10%~ kb damage with the latest 11/4 build

hasty raft Apr 11, 2017, 10:44 PM

#

yeah seems more like it

#

what should I do? reinstall etc?

viscid sonnet Apr 11, 2017, 10:46 PM

#

it seems more like what youre importing is incorrect

hasty raft Apr 11, 2017, 10:48 PM

#

no idea. on my outlaw gear/spec I sim as I used to

#

on assa though, it's 50kish below yesterday's results

#

anyway thanks for trying, i ll see tomorrow. gn

stark kindle Apr 12, 2017, 12:17 AM

#

guys, do I have to add something on SimC to simluate wearing Ring of Collapsing Futures?

glossy elm Apr 12, 2017, 1:58 AM

#

It simmed fine for me but that was quite some time ago

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 2:44 AM

#

@sterile jolt Been trying out your opener

#

and even though it is less opener damage

#

It is more damage over the fight

#

CD line up is just way more streamlined doing it

#

Tested it in a normal pug today

#

and my gul'dan kill popped off

#

Most of my kills did

#

📎 unknown.png

#

The kingsbane/vendetta lineup was absurd

#

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 2:50 AM

#

Whats sorta vendetta reduction you running with?

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 2:50 AM

#

2ma 4/4

#

cof boots

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 2:50 AM

#

hmm I should pay more attention to the lining up of everything, generally popping everything off CD

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 2:51 AM

#

I was very efficient with my energy usage also

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 2:51 AM

#

Admittedly, been a bit lazy since 7.2, hunting for a new guild, so new teams etc.

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 2:51 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

gul'dan

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 2:51 AM

#

guessing you were using feint or something during intermission phases for vend reduction?

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 2:52 AM

#

krosus

📎 unknown.png

#

Nope

#

FOr gul'dan I used

#

Crimson Vial

#

as I make sure I'm energy starved before phasing

#

then I can crimson vial to top myself AND not energy cap

#

and when RP is done

#

I can burst

#

p1 burst is really good too

#

📎 unknown.png

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 2:54 AM

#

nods its a good opener.

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 2:54 AM

#

You can just go look through the logs yourself anyway

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hq48km72MJvzRN3d#type=damage-done&view=analytical&fight=2

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 2:55 AM

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hq48km72MJvzRN3d#type=auras&view=analytical&fight=31&source=19&spells=debuffs&by=target&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24auras-cast%240%240.0.0.Any%24125257504.0.0.Rogue%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%2479140^0%24Separate%24%23909049%24auras-cast%240%240.0.0.Any%24125257504.0.0.Rogue%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24192759

#

This is the similar issue i'm having, which is why i was suprised you were saying that KB vendetta was lining up

#

Sorta goes wonky pretty quickly

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 2:56 AM

#

Krosus big mess

#

It all depends on boss uptime

#

Like bridge breaks ruin your linings

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 2:56 AM

#

but yeah, your guldan one was perfectly aligned

#

Did you hold at all to keep em insync?

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 2:57 AM

#

I held kingsbane specifically to refresh rupture

#

and pool slightly so I could envenom right after the kingsbane

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hq48km72MJvzRN3d#type=damage-done&view=analytical&fight=14&source=19&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24auras-cast%240%240.0.0.Any%24125257504.0.0.Rogue%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%2479140^0%24Separate%24%23909049%24auras-cast%240%240.0.0.Any%24125257504.0.0.Rogue%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24192759

#

spellblade

#

because of how the fight works with fok and energy usage

#

stuff comes off cd at basically the same time

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 2:59 AM

#

i dunno, kinda looks like you're holding KB

novel lava Apr 12, 2017, 3:00 AM

#

check out how the other rogue opens on guldan if you want to see something spicy btw

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:00 AM

#

what other rogue?

novel lava Apr 12, 2017, 3:01 AM

#

in the logs that were linked

#

Kathe

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:01 AM

#

Only one rogue in those logs?

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:01 AM

#

kathe wasn't in gul'dan

split narwhal Apr 12, 2017, 3:01 AM

#

he isnt in the gul'dan kill

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:02 AM

#

Like I said, I was holding kb to maximise envenom uptime so I wouldn't have to refresh rupture during kingsbane

#

which is what you should be doing imo

novel lava Apr 12, 2017, 3:02 AM

#

warcraftlogs on your phone is confusing, wtf was I looking at 😀

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:03 AM

#

Probs krosus 😃

#

Yeah, I do like the idea of lining up, especially to have that nice pot of energy for KB, but its really hard to justify holding of such a short CD for more than 3-4s

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:04 AM

#

Because it works out to more damage overall on kingsbane

#

You lose out on cdr, but you get more out of it

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:04 AM

#

But I'll keep it in mind, I only just got boots so I never got into the habit of lining up my CDs outside of vendetta/vanish

novel lava Apr 12, 2017, 3:04 AM

#

it was skorp apparently

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:05 AM

#

I think in a fight that goes for 5 mins, you'd miss out on a full KB.

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:05 AM

#

You would. but your kingsbane would do less on average

#

more =/= better

#

For example, my kingsbane averaged 4M

#

if I do 8 in a fight, and average that, that is 32M damage

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:06 AM

#

Hmm tricky to test without just mathsing it out imo. Or running a sim.

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:06 AM

#

if I do 9, but average 3M damage, that's 27M damage

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:06 AM

#

Like, I understand what you're saying, but its conjecture without maths.

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:06 AM

#

see what I mean?

#

When I was using kingsbane as soon as it came off cd, it was averaging 3M dps

#

3M damage, sorry

#

Now filling the other criteria, it averages 4M

novel lava Apr 12, 2017, 3:07 AM

#

can't you just pool as kingsbane is coming off cd, and be properly prepared for it with a long duration rupture, so you have energy and you don't have to sit on it?

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:08 AM

#

The issue with that is that rupture may be coming off cd

#

you're talking planning 15s in advance

#

which just sometimes isn't possible

novel lava Apr 12, 2017, 3:09 AM

#

on patchwerk it's always possible

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:09 AM

#

patchwerk fights in NH?

#

star augur, and that's it as a rogue

#

Unless you're talking about hc

#

where every fight is patchwerk for a rogue lol

novel lava Apr 12, 2017, 3:10 AM

#

The more you become familiar with a fight the more it resembles patchwerk for a rogue

#

You can refresh rupture at 10-11 seconds left

#

It isn't the end of the world

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:10 AM

#

lol

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:10 AM

#

10-11 seconds would be a dps loss

novel lava Apr 12, 2017, 3:10 AM

#

And is better than sitting on kingsbane

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:11 AM

#

A pretty significant one

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:11 AM

#

10-11 seconds is a huge dps loss

#

you ALWAYS refresh at <6s

#

preferably 5.9s ofc

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:11 AM

#

Anyway, this isn't underbelly.

split narwhal Apr 12, 2017, 3:11 AM

#

Well it depends because your first KB is inflated by mantle, While not all KB buffs are

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:12 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

Is it 🤔

novel lava Apr 12, 2017, 3:12 AM

#

you "lose" 2 rupture ticks but could gain another kb usage during the fight

split narwhal Apr 12, 2017, 3:12 AM

#

Well it should be 🤔

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:12 AM

#

first 5s of it aren't in envenom buff; it works out to less because of that

#

anyway

#

#tc-research

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:14 AM

#

Was wondering how you got such high KB damage on your spellblade

#

Was comparing it to my log

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1f2D3CnQwtzhNpjY#fight=4&type=auras&source=3&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24auras-cast%240%240.0.0.Any%24172052061.0.0.Rogue%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24192759^0%24Separate%24%23909049%24auras-cast%240%240.0.0.Any%24172052061.0.0.Rogue%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%2479140^0%24Separate%24%23a04D8A%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24172052061.0.0.Rogue%24false%24235027

novel lava Apr 12, 2017, 3:14 AM

#

this discussion is better than random feelycraft about kingsbane damage to be fair

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:15 AM

#

Admittedly, i'm still playing like shit imo since 7.2, but I think that spell blade was mostly just everything on CD

#

Admittedly, my rogue is only 903 vs 911, but i'm suprised the KB damage difference is so much.

#

You did well timing your 2nd vanish with the end of KB though, good micro management.

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:31 AM

#

I explained how I was using Kingsbane :P

#

Like I said, more damage overall with less uses is way better

#

You want to use Kingsbane ASAP, that is true

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:32 AM

#

This is on a 3 minute fight, lets not get ahead of ourselves.

#

In 3:15, I managed almost a full KB more than you. So obviously that difference grows as the fight goes on.

#

Consider that you'll still get partial overlap on most KBs whether you line up or not.

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:34 AM

#

Average cast: 2.34

#

Average cast:3.67

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:34 AM

#

Keep in mind ilvl there, bit hard to compare like for like.

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:35 AM

#

Yo compare, you'd need to do 1.5x as many Kingsbanes

#

To do the same damage

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:36 AM

#

Again, 903 ilvl vs 911

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:36 AM

#

So if I do 8, you'd need to do 12

#

A 700 agi difference

#

You have more mastery slightly, but less Crit and vers

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:37 AM

#

The only thing I'd change I think is lining up my 2nd vanish on the end of KB, we had 18% difference on crit chance there.

atomic flame Apr 12, 2017, 3:37 AM

#

Yep, that's just playing smart though :P

willow pecan Apr 12, 2017, 3:38 AM

#

@atomic flame mind looking at my question in #228878985210101760?

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:38 AM

#

I wouldn't get soa ahead of yourself 😛 Get given a new opener one day and think you've got nothing else to learn 😛

sour vessel Apr 12, 2017, 3:39 AM

#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PG3fpJ6B8vbtMCHc#fight=8&type=damage-done&source=34

#

0/

#

avg cast kb 4.02. no legendary shoulders ;3

sterile jolt Apr 12, 2017, 3:41 AM

#

915 checking in. This conversation has gone beyond my pay grade... and into dick measuring.

sour vessel Apr 12, 2017, 3:41 AM

#

49 1.32m 49 1.32m 26.5% love this envi crits ❤

maiden cargo Apr 12, 2017, 6:57 AM

#

/wa

opal spindle Apr 12, 2017, 2:11 PM

#

Hey, are there any race sims ?

stark sentinel Apr 12, 2017, 2:16 PM

#

only old ones

maiden cargo Apr 12, 2017, 2:48 PM

#

can some1 link a trinket list with ilvl order 😃

late willow Apr 12, 2017, 2:53 PM

#

Not sure about ilvl order like mage had in the past. But it's basically convergence of Fates > Frond > DoS

#

Also better to ask in general

maiden cargo Apr 12, 2017, 2:54 PM

#

thx 😃

hard hull Apr 12, 2017, 3:01 PM

#

Everyone still sim NS and sub close? With shoulder

jade wren Apr 12, 2017, 3:59 PM

#

Seems like the general consensus is they're so close it doesn't really matter

wheat plaza Apr 12, 2017, 5:08 PM

#

Just received the Legendary Legs (will of valeera) is there any use of them or are they just bullshit for assa ? (got shoulders) (dont have boots or wrists)

brave bolt Apr 12, 2017, 5:24 PM

#

@wheat plaza more suites for general or simple questions. However, legs are a good stat stick since they have a ton of agility.

deep bloom Apr 12, 2017, 5:26 PM

#

What does APL stand for in context with simming?

brave bolt Apr 12, 2017, 5:27 PM

#

Action priority list

deep bloom Apr 12, 2017, 5:27 PM

#

do i have to update it manually for simc to work correctly, or is it updated already when i dl simc?

brave bolt Apr 12, 2017, 5:28 PM

#

It's updated already. However, I dont personally trust it entirely.

deep bloom Apr 12, 2017, 5:29 PM

#

Last pinned message says its out, but doesnt say if its implemented in simulationcraft

#

I guess if it wasnt there would be a link to github or smth

rustic abyss Apr 12, 2017, 5:38 PM

#

It is on the nightly build

regal agate Apr 12, 2017, 5:39 PM

#

the apl changer are in the release version aswell as in the latest nightly

deep bloom Apr 12, 2017, 5:44 PM

#

thanks

final arrow Apr 12, 2017, 6:30 PM

#

What does 4th golden trait sim for you guys on assassination?

runic glade Apr 12, 2017, 6:50 PM

#

so nightly build and released is giving me this...? http://i.imgur.com/dZfWxKt.png

runic glade Apr 12, 2017, 7:15 PM

#

anyone care to chime in why it is vanishing @ 2 seconds? Ive simmed other rogues to make sure it wasnt my options. and its a huge waste of 4 seconds of shoulder buff

split sorrel Apr 12, 2017, 7:33 PM

#

report

runic glade Apr 12, 2017, 7:36 PM

#

where? link?

frozen mauve Apr 12, 2017, 8:22 PM

#

with newest nightly mastery is > agility

#

first time it ever happened

split sorrel Apr 12, 2017, 9:10 PM

#

@runic glade save it and drop here

orchid bramble Apr 12, 2017, 9:17 PM

#

@split sorrel Hey, I'm geting a 0.5% simc improvement with mantle+4p with this vanish APL:
actions.cds+=/vanish,if=talent.nightstalker.enabled&combo_points>=cp_max_spend-1&mantle_duration=0&debuff.vendetta.up (currenly vanishing on 5 cp regardless of vendetta)

split sorrel Apr 12, 2017, 9:17 PM

#

github issue 😉

orchid bramble Apr 12, 2017, 9:19 PM

#

Ok

noble pendant Apr 12, 2017, 9:25 PM

#

what do you guys suggest for a target % error

split sorrel Apr 12, 2017, 9:29 PM

#

0.05 is cool

runic glade Apr 12, 2017, 10:10 PM

#

@split sorrel in class now, I'll drop it when I get back home

split sorrel Apr 12, 2017, 10:12 PM

#

😃

runic glade Apr 12, 2017, 11:34 PM

#

@split sorrel

📎 rogue_sim_vanish_2sec.html

heavy moon Apr 13, 2017, 3:37 AM

#

read the pins

stark kindle Apr 13, 2017, 7:09 AM

#

i need help, guys... which combination would you use? I'm asking that cuz I know Nightblooming is very inconsistent... an is it worth it replace it by EoC?

📎 unknown.png

solemn plaza Apr 13, 2017, 7:19 AM

#

I suppose it depends on how much you would switch targets, they're simmable as far as I'm aware (try different fight types)

cerulean junco Apr 13, 2017, 9:05 AM

#

can someone give me the string for sin boots?

regal agate Apr 13, 2017, 9:06 AM

#

the id is 137030

cerulean junco Apr 13, 2017, 9:08 AM

#

do i need to change the bonus ids too? what are they telling the simulation

gaunt gale Apr 13, 2017, 9:10 AM

#

bonus IDs tell the sim whether it titanforged, etc. so unless your legendary titanforged, best to leave them off.

cerulean junco Apr 13, 2017, 9:10 AM

#

is see.. ty!

cerulean junco Apr 13, 2017, 9:42 AM

#

can someone check this, i only switched the neck and somehow got that large difference in dps

📎 results_html.html

#

i added the following, is this the right way?

#

copy=zealouspendant
neck=,id=140894,enchant_id=5439,bonus_id=3445/1502/333

gaunt gale Apr 13, 2017, 10:17 AM

#

@cerulean junco it has the wrong stats for your neck because its apparently "of the harmonious", try removing the /333

crimson cove Apr 13, 2017, 10:17 AM

#

I use this, garrote-muti-rupture-muti-vendetta-envenom-kb(finish buff shoulder)-vanish-muti-envenom- arcane torrent(blood elf)- garrote- muti-envenom- muti-envenom

#

Try to do this

hasty raft Apr 13, 2017, 10:39 AM

#

Is it still 2xMA 1xEnvenom with the new Kingsbane trait?

#

I feel with 3xMA u can line up every vendetta with kingsbane

pastel sundial Apr 13, 2017, 11:02 AM

#

it cant..i dont know who spreads this shit

#

you ll never line every vendetta with kb...

civic cradle Apr 13, 2017, 11:06 AM

#

you line them up if you have 3 MA and cof

#

and no golden trait

#

or 2 MA and boots

#

also no golden trait

#

when you get your trait you cant do it anymore

#

unless they are within 5 s of each other

proud locust Apr 13, 2017, 11:11 AM

#

Good morning everybody i have yet to have a professional answer to my question for some reason. With legendary shoulders for asssa with the talent subterfuge, after using vanish in our opener with vendetta when do we use our vanish in our roatation do we only use it with vendetta to get as much crits as we can with vendetta or do we just use it on cooldown for crits and maybe bonous damage on garrote

lunar trout Apr 13, 2017, 12:23 PM

#

Bug: The default APL is still generating a line in CD's for my Nitro Boosts engineering belt "enchant" as below:

actions.cds+=/use_item,name=high_shadow_councilors_wrap,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=20|debuff.vendetta.up

split sorrel Apr 13, 2017, 12:26 PM

#

open an issue on github so I won't forget to prevent it

#

next time I'll look at

proud locust Apr 13, 2017, 1:01 PM

#

@split sorrel can you please help me with my question after our opener as assa with legendary shoulders after already using vanish and vendetta when do i use vanish in my rotation again do i always line it up with my vendetta again no matter what unless the boss is about to die or do i just vanish on cooldown to spam crits without vendetta?

split sorrel Apr 13, 2017, 1:01 PM

#

vendetta on cd basically

#

just check energy

#

delay vanish for next vendetta

#

delay vanish for < 30% if you can get only 1 and got bracers aswell

proud locust Apr 13, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

k thanks thats what i been doing i always use my vanish with vendetta no matter what just checking if i was right

#

also @split sorrel i love you new roation addon thanks for making it

#

rotation

split sorrel Apr 13, 2017, 1:05 PM

#

😃

blazing flame Apr 13, 2017, 1:13 PM

#

Hi ! I'm looking to test how i should reroll with loaded dice. I suppose i have to override rtb but i have no idea how i can do that. Any advice ?

split sorrel Apr 13, 2017, 1:15 PM

#

?

#

loaded dice doesn't change buffs value

#

just the odds to get more

#

so rules are the same

blazing flame Apr 13, 2017, 1:16 PM

#

Yeah so it may be worth to reroll a 20sc TB to try get a better buff right ?

#

Like TB+CP

split sorrel Apr 13, 2017, 1:17 PM

#

no

blazing flame Apr 13, 2017, 1:17 PM

#

Why ?

split sorrel Apr 13, 2017, 1:17 PM

#

because we are in world of true bearing

#

and if you don't get it

#

you'll have to roll again

#

it's ok, AR is 25s cd

#

with CoF and TB

blazing flame Apr 13, 2017, 1:19 PM

#

Ok maybe wrong example but. Just a shit 3+... i mean... RTB doesn't have the same average outcome if you have loaded dice active, so how to reroll should be different

split sorrel Apr 13, 2017, 1:22 PM

#

could be a little gain to use it before it expires when you got 3+/6+ yes

vale charm Apr 13, 2017, 1:23 PM

#

With loaded dice, you can still get more than 2 or is restricted to 2?

blazing flame Apr 13, 2017, 1:24 PM

#

Basically loaded is "auto reroll until 2+"

#

So yeah, you have a chance to get 6+, and the probability is around the double

vale charm Apr 13, 2017, 1:25 PM

#

But, I would think you would reroll the bad 3 buff if you have like less than 30 seconds? I dunno, probably would have to sim it or actually do the math.

blazing flame Apr 13, 2017, 1:26 PM

#

Yeah i think so

civic cradle Apr 13, 2017, 2:05 PM

#

I wonder what the new rerolling rules will become with 0.5 passive CDR and TB down to 1 second

light sail Apr 13, 2017, 2:21 PM

#

so 7.2 with shoulders & boots on sin do I want frond or DoS?

civic cradle Apr 13, 2017, 2:32 PM

#

you want a banana

gusty lynx Apr 13, 2017, 3:09 PM

#

Do I pool energy for KB and Pool CPs for Vendeta?

noble pier Apr 13, 2017, 3:17 PM

#

@light sail you want DoS

runic hinge Apr 13, 2017, 3:37 PM

#

@light sail when your doing 4 mil burst its clear DoS is the tits as sin

#

Anyway to have simcraft switch to a opener code you write to test them out in a controlled environment?

civic cradle Apr 13, 2017, 4:27 PM

#

get a small cage with some hamsters and give them miniature daggers

#

dos is not better than frond

random veldt Apr 13, 2017, 4:27 PM

#

why is general discussion happening in simulation 🤔

civic cradle Apr 13, 2017, 4:27 PM

#

some guy couldn't be bothered to post on the correct channel

robust marten Apr 13, 2017, 6:40 PM

#

or maybe they thought they were in the right channel

#

dont gonna act like a sausage about it

mortal yew Apr 13, 2017, 7:31 PM

#

I have Shivarran Symatry, Greenskin Waterlooged Wristgaurd and Shepahz's Secret which 2 are best to wear

grave oar Apr 13, 2017, 7:36 PM

#

that doesn't belong in this channel

hollow kernel Apr 13, 2017, 8:03 PM

#

So, 860 NBF or 875 CoF? The trinket list says NBF is simming higher than normal?

#

Unless this isnt the place to ask that, in which I apologize

dreamy dune Apr 13, 2017, 8:26 PM

#

so, I just returned to wow and I wanted to look up the latest simc profile...and you guys make it more unreadable by the patch.
Now, I have some questions about some stuff that is used in the profile.
What are and how are those determind:

ssw_refund_offset
stealthed.rogue
cycle_targets=1

split sorrel Apr 13, 2017, 8:46 PM

#

Read the wiki ?

#

😃

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/Rogues

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

#

@dreamy dune

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/Rogues#shadow-satyrs-walk

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/Rogues#miscellaneous

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/ActionLists#selecting-the-target

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

dreamy dune Apr 13, 2017, 8:53 PM

#

Thank you, I didn't know we have a wiki now.

split sorrel Apr 13, 2017, 8:56 PM

#

It has been there for years

#

before simc was on github, it existed on googlecode platform

#

I try to maintain rogue wiki

#

but I didn't added recent adds tho

#

like the poison things

hallow hazel Apr 13, 2017, 9:02 PM

#

Are the sims for relics on the current nightly accurate? I'm considering swapping 875/870/865 MA's to 875 MA/910 shadow walker/885 GW because the sim has it simming higher; but everything I've been told is not to swap the 3 MA's. No boots, using CoF

runic glade Apr 13, 2017, 9:45 PM

#

@split sorrel were you able to take a look at that sim i dropped yesterday?

gusty lynx Apr 14, 2017, 12:27 PM

#

In assassination opener I pool before the vanish+rupture for toxins uptime, is that ok?

still tiger Apr 14, 2017, 12:53 PM

#

having trouble with recent sims with 7.2. havent simmed since 7.2 due to no serious upgrades, but right now i am simming for like 460k dps which is less than half what i do. something bugged curently?

civic cradle Apr 14, 2017, 1:01 PM

#

Hi Ellaire ^^/ you do 920k ST? nice. There are no bugs with the latest nightly no, do you have it

still tiger Apr 14, 2017, 1:01 PM

#

i tried both

#

cant figure out wahts wrong in the report

#

nightly and the stable

civic cradle Apr 14, 2017, 1:02 PM

#

are you importing from armoury or using the simc addon

still tiger Apr 14, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

addon currently

#

checked gear in the report all seems to be alright

civic cradle Apr 14, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

mac or windows?

still tiger Apr 14, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

win

civic cradle Apr 14, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

can you PM me your string from the addon

still tiger Apr 14, 2017, 1:04 PM

#

sure

hasty raft Apr 14, 2017, 1:08 PM

#

@civic cradle Can I PM you mine as well? Seems buggy for me as well (got newest)

still tiger Apr 14, 2017, 1:12 PM

#

probably the same thing as me with simc addon not updated, currently simming again and trying :d

split sorrel Apr 14, 2017, 1:57 PM

#

just update simc addon

#

99% u're missing artifact string

hasty raft Apr 14, 2017, 1:58 PM

#

i did it yesterday

#

one sim is at 900k, the next 820ish, with same everything

winter wraith Apr 14, 2017, 2:46 PM

#

any insight to why I would open with KB?

📎 unknown.png

split sorrel Apr 14, 2017, 2:48 PM

#

probably one thing I missed

#

it's not intended

#

what does L correponds to ?

winter wraith Apr 14, 2017, 2:48 PM

#

here I am swinging at the dummy lol

split sorrel Apr 14, 2017, 2:48 PM

#

in the action list

winter wraith Apr 14, 2017, 2:48 PM

#

kingsbane,if=artifact.sinister_circulation.enabled&!(equipped.duskwalkers_footpads&equipped.convergence_of_fates&artifact.master_assassin.rank>=6)&(time>25|!equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin|(debuff.vendetta.up&debuff.surge_of_toxins.up))&(talent.subterfuge.enabled|!stealthed.rogue|(talent.nightstalker.enabled&(!equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin|!set_bonus.tier19_4pc)))
Sinister Circulation makes it worth to cast Kingsbane on CD exceot if you're [stealthed w/ Nighstalker and have Mantle & T19_4PC to Envenom] or before vendetta if you have mantle during the opener.

#

new at this lol...

split sorrel Apr 14, 2017, 2:49 PM

#

hmm

#

you have subterfuge

#

you don't have mantle

#

you don't have equipped.duskwalkers_footpads&equipped.convergence_of_fates&artifact.master_assassin.rank>=6

#

right ?

winter wraith Apr 14, 2017, 2:50 PM

#

i'm taleneted NS for the sim

#

no mantle, no boots

random veldt Apr 14, 2017, 2:51 PM

#

i have a q about the mantle apl as well but it can wait until you're done

split sorrel Apr 14, 2017, 2:54 PM

#

hmm

coral oyster Apr 14, 2017, 2:54 PM

#

but i forgot it

split sorrel Apr 14, 2017, 2:54 PM

#

not sure what is better between KB NS vs Garrote NS

winter wraith Apr 14, 2017, 2:55 PM

#

so kb ns is actually a thing?

random veldt Apr 14, 2017, 2:56 PM

#

Raz, not the channel for that kind of question

coral oyster Apr 14, 2017, 2:58 PM

#

ah my bad tought i clicked on general

random veldt Apr 14, 2017, 2:58 PM

#

🗞

somber lynx Apr 14, 2017, 3:01 PM

#

unsure if i'm popping in at a bad time. can i posit that garrote NS is better than the NS'ing the two melee attacks from kingsbane, as the kingsbane dot doesn't get the NS buff?

#

Addtionally (again, may be the wrong time): I'm interested in modifying how the latest build uses the legendary cloak. I was wondering if anyone had guidiance on how to give myself 30 stacks at the start of the fight vs. ramping up from 0 at the start, but to also keep the stacking buff logic post first use of fan of knives or shruiken storm.

#

thanks for everything ya do and thanks in advance for your time!

eager ingot Apr 14, 2017, 3:42 PM

#

my opener is also kinda weird in the new nightly build. so much wasted energy during DoS. (shoulders, subterfuge)

📎 opener.png

cerulean junco Apr 14, 2017, 6:14 PM

#

you can add enchant_id=mark_of_the_trained_soldier instead of the id, right?

sterile gale Apr 14, 2017, 6:16 PM

#

I think its trained_solider

regal agate Apr 14, 2017, 6:18 PM

#

enchant=trained_soldier

cerulean junco Apr 14, 2017, 6:28 PM

#

does not work

#

neck=,id=133636,enchant=trained_soldier,bonus_id=3416/1808/1552/3337,gem_id=130222

#

im dumb?

#

it sims without any enchant

regal agate Apr 14, 2017, 6:30 PM

#

moment letme check maybe a spelling issue

cerulean junco Apr 14, 2017, 6:30 PM

#

i could just add +300 mastery

#

well satyr is ahead 7k ^^..

regal agate Apr 14, 2017, 6:38 PM

#

enchant=mark_of_the_trained_soldier

#

worked for me

#

curiouse why it doesent without "mark_of_the"

cerulean junco Apr 14, 2017, 6:41 PM

#

hm ok, 930.282 vs 930.122 (trained)

#

if i add 600mastery manually i actually got 929123 ^^..

dreamy dune Apr 14, 2017, 6:58 PM

#

buff.faster_than_light_trigger.up
what actually is this? It's not in the buffs list and i can't find anything for that on wowhead.

#

nvm found it. wowhead didnt return it with a nornal search? google found it

modest ravine Apr 14, 2017, 7:38 PM

#

is there an value to siming aoe/cleave fights with different legendaries/trinkets or should i just go straight patchwerk/light movement? as outlaw

regal agate Apr 14, 2017, 7:39 PM

#

depends what you want to sim for

#

if you want to sim for singe target fight go for patchwork

modest ravine Apr 14, 2017, 7:40 PM

#

well right. just generally curious if siming aoe/cleave will tell you anything.

#

i have the outlaw hands/belt/ring and a few aoe trinkets

regal agate Apr 14, 2017, 7:42 PM

#

yes it tells you how good you peform in certain szenarios

modest ravine Apr 14, 2017, 7:44 PM

#

i don't raid mythic so its not a huge deal but i was thinking fights like spellblade/botanist/tich

odd sedge Apr 15, 2017, 10:13 AM

#

wasnt expecting poison knives to sim ahead of gushing wounds 😮

civic cradle Apr 15, 2017, 11:28 AM

#

eh .-.

noble pendant Apr 15, 2017, 12:14 PM

#

Do the legendary sin wrists simulate or does the way simulationcraft works not proc the effect

#

and if they dont simulate, is there something that can simulate it

regal agate Apr 15, 2017, 12:15 PM

#

the legendary wrists are implemented and work like ingame 😃

noble pendant Apr 15, 2017, 12:20 PM

#

Hm. Only a 15k increase over cinidaria, im surprised

#

Thanks for the info fuu

maiden cargo Apr 15, 2017, 12:23 PM

#

hey guys can i have some help ?

#

i've been told im rolling low dps as ass rogue 890 iLvl ( 500k)

urban wasp Apr 15, 2017, 12:41 PM

#

#228878985210101760 @maiden cargo

crimson cove Apr 15, 2017, 4:42 PM

#

Anyone can write the aethys addons rotation?

maiden cargo Apr 15, 2017, 4:50 PM

#

what's the best sim for rogue atm? simc? asm?

flat flare Apr 15, 2017, 5:39 PM

#

Could anyone link me string for legendary boots equipped for simulationcraft? I seem to be too retarded to do it myself

#

both boots i mean

unreal cloud Apr 15, 2017, 5:51 PM

#

Im trying to compare wnchants for a new necklace but I dont know the enchant ID for marked of the trained soldier. Can anyone tell me where I could find that information?

regal agate Apr 15, 2017, 5:52 PM

#

use: enchant=mark_of_the_trained_soldier

unreal cloud Apr 15, 2017, 5:52 PM

#

never knew it works by name

#

always used the addon to pick up my profile and it goes by numbers

#

thx for the response

drowsy surge Apr 15, 2017, 7:15 PM

#

what % do i need to get sigryn too?

scarlet iris Apr 15, 2017, 7:55 PM

#

20

past aurora Apr 15, 2017, 7:58 PM

#

@split sorrel Hey, was checking out the rotation addon out of curiosity, it uses the simc apl so I'll post this here. Multiple instances the apl prefers to saberslash at 5 out of 6 CP, to gain a 6th before using a finisher. is this a dps gain even when it overcaps cp with the ss double hits?

split sorrel Apr 15, 2017, 8:00 PM

#

simc says yes

#

but I didn't spend much time on that recently

#

feel free to contribute if you have more "optimized" infos

maiden cargo Apr 15, 2017, 8:06 PM

#

Hey rogues, my main is balance i love simc and theroy crafting. ATM i know balance very well lot of top 100 world on MM. Here i am, i strat a reroll rogue, i play sub ( hate assa, it's like nobrain rotation ) i just have my two leg boots and wrist. I have two question why there is a big difference between shadowcraft and simcraft like 190k DPS it's huge ? and about talent i read some gdoc etc and even shadowcraft want me to take weaponmaster and vigor, but actualy all parse on WOL are with Master sub and anticipation, so can you help me ?

Thanks

regal agate Apr 15, 2017, 8:10 PM

#

thats the wrong channel and simcraft is more accurat for evaluation. vigor is nice to learn the spec but DS or anticipation will lead to a stronger output

maiden cargo Apr 15, 2017, 8:18 PM

#

so shadowcraft need to be upload ?

regal agate Apr 15, 2017, 8:19 PM

#

it has a difrent purpose then simc

#

every tool has its pros/cons, having more tools is nice 😃

#

however probably more confusing to somone who dont know how to use them right

vivid lagoon Apr 15, 2017, 8:21 PM

#

can i take a look on the opener in simcraft?

#

like is it written somewhjere

regal agate Apr 15, 2017, 8:22 PM

#

you can run a simulation and open up the action priority tab in the report.
the "sample sequence table" is what you look for

arctic lily Apr 15, 2017, 9:02 PM

#

Yo, does the Simcraft Addon on curse still work for gear strings despite not being updated in forever

#

or, can shadowcraft make gear strings?

stark sentinel Apr 15, 2017, 9:03 PM

#

it has been updated 2 days ago

regal agate Apr 15, 2017, 9:03 PM

#

simc addon got updated recently also simbuilder works fine (and is up to date) 😃

arctic lily Apr 15, 2017, 9:03 PM

#

hmm never seen simbuilder mentioned, i'll grab SimC addon. Thanks

arctic lily Apr 15, 2017, 9:56 PM

#

So, I've seen a few things noted from various sources. With the new KB gold on Assassin, is CoF not so highly valued at this point?

#

Frond/DoS with Mantle and Duskwalkers is simming higher than a CoF

#

I've also seen things like dropping a Rupture relic in since the 7th MA point does almost nothing,

#

than a CoF/DoS*

sullen dagger Apr 15, 2017, 10:42 PM

#

anyone having issues with the latest nightly build? it keeps crashing while i'm simming

gusty lynx Apr 15, 2017, 11:47 PM

#

Hi where do I get dusty pockets as assassination

safe aspen Apr 15, 2017, 11:49 PM

#

probably not in sim channel

maiden cargo Apr 16, 2017, 12:51 AM

#

What is the lego ring like for assasin?

ember nebula Apr 16, 2017, 1:15 AM

#

is it worth going for 7 ranks of MA i just got a good blood relic off helya and can replace rupture damage to get 7 MA ranks

arctic lily Apr 16, 2017, 2:50 AM

#

Am I missing something? Is there a reason my Sub is simming at 950k and Assassination is simming at 860k? Patchwerk

#

Could it be the way Frond works in SimC?

safe aspen Apr 16, 2017, 4:45 AM

#

frond works like ingame in simc

eager badge Apr 16, 2017, 12:32 PM

#

currently simming using new nightlys 720.02. I am very surprised: overall dps is minus 13,6% vs. 720.01 and value of Mastery dropped significantly. hard to believe tbh. Can anyone confirm tendency plz?

late willow Apr 16, 2017, 1:47 PM

#

@eager badge Just downloaded the newest nightly and I sim about the same as the release version (890k vs 894k) and my stat weights are the same.

keen lion Apr 16, 2017, 3:55 PM

#

why is subterfuge simming higher than nightstalker w/o shoulders ?

civic cradle Apr 16, 2017, 4:16 PM

#

because it still does more damage

#

just hardly

wind lotus Apr 16, 2017, 5:02 PM

#

it pulls ahead tho when you can cleave (sin)

iron obsidian Apr 17, 2017, 9:56 AM

#

APL uses Kingsbane as opener, and crits it every time as if I have Mantle but I don't. Weird bug

torn dome Apr 17, 2017, 12:13 PM

#

Channel for questions happens to be #228878985210101760

late willow Apr 17, 2017, 12:14 PM

#

Nirty its in the faq how to sim relics

solid pine Apr 17, 2017, 1:22 PM

#

Hmm, I knew haste is bad for Sub but this is rather extreme: ( Pawn: v1: "Launja Sub": Class=Rogue, Spec=Subtlety, Agility=20.57, CritRating=14.52, HasteRating=3.49, MasteryRating=18.11, Versatility=15.18 )

pure condor Apr 17, 2017, 1:59 PM

#

how do i apply the deadly poison in a sim if im talented into ap ?

#

actions.precombat+=/apply_poison,lethal=deadly doesnt work it ifs the only thing besides the copy paste from simc addon

split sorrel Apr 17, 2017, 2:16 PM

#

you need full apl

#

ur thing does append this

#

it doesn't replace anything

pure condor Apr 17, 2017, 2:21 PM

#

so there is no way to keep default apl and just change one line? without copy pasting a generated apl for 1 specific gearset?

ashen crater Apr 17, 2017, 2:21 PM

#

You could try taking no talent in the tier with agonizing poison.

late willow Apr 17, 2017, 2:22 PM

#

just import from armory

split sorrel Apr 17, 2017, 2:24 PM

#

use template var @pure condor or make an action list

#

= override, +=/ appends

dense pike Apr 17, 2017, 2:25 PM

#

@split sorrel Been using the aethys rotation add on for rogue, noticed it has an option for druid but doesn't work with feral. Any insight?

pure condor Apr 17, 2017, 2:27 PM

#

i mean when i copy paste the stuff from simc addon and just add

#

actions.precombat=apply_poison,lethal=deadly

split sorrel Apr 17, 2017, 2:28 PM

#

Use SimCMinMax Discord for that, Boomking is being worked on, Feral needs something from the Core that I didn't did yet. (pmultiplier from simc, Assa needs it aswell)

pure condor Apr 17, 2017, 2:28 PM

#

it still doesnt use deadly

split sorrel Apr 17, 2017, 2:28 PM

#

tbh

#

use the whole APL

viscid summit Apr 17, 2017, 2:54 PM

#

so can anyone explain me why i sim 950k as alacrity st and 900k as AP

#

makes no sence for me, shouldnt AP be the best?

pure condor Apr 17, 2017, 3:05 PM

#

when im running a sim with ap but using deadly haste has a stat weight of -2.15 ?

#

and when i use alac it has 13.93

modest ravine Apr 17, 2017, 3:06 PM

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is there a new outlaw opener that is coded into the apl with the new gold trait?

vocal bane Apr 17, 2017, 3:22 PM

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not from what I've seen, it just lies as a backup if you already have a good roll

split sorrel Apr 17, 2017, 3:26 PM

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if you have suggestion, feel free to contribute

dark obsidian Apr 17, 2017, 3:26 PM

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aethys are relic sims trustworthy? As in if I sim higher with env relic than with Ma should i go for my env relic?

split sorrel Apr 17, 2017, 3:27 PM

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why not ?

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env relic are good due to T19 4PC

dark obsidian Apr 17, 2017, 3:27 PM

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Also I dont understand how subt sims higher than NS if it only ever buffs the garrote in the vanish window in the opener

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yea I figured it would work, just every1 seems to say MA relics

split sorrel Apr 17, 2017, 3:27 PM

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doesn't only in opener

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😉

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in average, it tries to got it for all vanishes

dark obsidian Apr 17, 2017, 3:28 PM

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https://gyazo.com/54a745785dba351e3c9d8611d6bd5fe4

Gyazo

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it doesnt do it tho

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it randomly does it half the time for some reason

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like at the 4min vanish it does it

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but it doesnt do it at the vanish in opener or vanish at 2min

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Basically what im trying to figure out is I'm supposed to do a vanish buffed garrote everytime i vanish

split sorrel Apr 17, 2017, 3:31 PM

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check the garrote condition

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and you'll understand

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garrote does have a cd

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that's why

modest ravine Apr 17, 2017, 3:32 PM

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@vocal bane i was thinking about the pros and cons. do you maximize the CotDB uptime or get faster combo points to roll for that 2 buff. my initial thought was CotDB uptime so the opener becomes MfD>rtb>ambush>ghostly stike>SS>AR> roll if just 1 buff>CotDB as opposed to popping AR+CotDB>rtb

dark obsidian Apr 17, 2017, 3:32 PM

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Ok that makes sense, so basically if I can reapply a garrote that is lower than 10sec with vanish buff on it I should do it

vocal bane Apr 17, 2017, 3:37 PM

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@modest ravine yeah, I'd build up CPs for a second roll and then use curse

modest ravine Apr 17, 2017, 3:37 PM

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that was my thought. just wondering how the apl had it

vocal bane Apr 17, 2017, 3:38 PM

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although I pop curse earlier and roll after a hit or two to try and maximize the effect of my cinidaria

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if I'm fishing for a bit it tends to waste a leggo

pure condor Apr 17, 2017, 3:38 PM

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either you reroll or you dont. there is no "only reroll two times at most"

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sunk cost and stuff

vocal bane Apr 17, 2017, 3:39 PM

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although getting a 6-roll first try smoothes out consistency 3 minutes ahead of time

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kinda funny imo

modest ravine Apr 17, 2017, 3:41 PM

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its just the difference of rerolling inside or outside of CotDB. either you delay your burst cd or lose a global and the 10% extra damage with it

ember ferry Apr 17, 2017, 6:35 PM

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Quick question, I Sim at 700k+ outlaw with shoulders and bracers. If I get decent rolls with minimal rerolls I do close to that. However I think I may be using PS too much. Right now if I get TB I use BtE every time it's off cd, spending the PS proc, regaurdless of BB or not. My thought is if TB + SitW is up then the crit chance is goood enough for BtE spam. Otherwise wait for the BB proc and RT like normal? Thoughts?

torn dome Apr 17, 2017, 7:31 PM

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#228878985210101760

modest ravine Apr 17, 2017, 7:43 PM

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i love that pikachu avatar

worldly otter Apr 17, 2017, 8:01 PM

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Does frond still sim more than it should?

robust marten Apr 17, 2017, 8:06 PM

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its fixed

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simming correctly

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no1 bothers to fix the website sim screenies

atomic flame Apr 17, 2017, 8:30 PM

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Saw some talk about sims for wound poison vs deadly poison 🤔

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How do I force simc to WP over DP

finite thunder Apr 17, 2017, 8:34 PM

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frond was only simming incorrectly in the first week of NH, it has been fine since then

atomic flame Apr 17, 2017, 10:04 PM

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#228878985210101760

hollow fossil Apr 18, 2017, 12:36 AM

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What's the difference between sim 720-02 and 720-01 ?

robust marten Apr 18, 2017, 12:37 AM

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important stuff

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so just get it

hollow fossil Apr 18, 2017, 12:37 AM

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the 720-02 ?

cobalt oxide Apr 18, 2017, 12:59 AM

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Hey guys, with leg shoulders is subterfuge still considered better than nightstalker even after the nerf

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For assasination

robust marten Apr 18, 2017, 1:48 AM

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subter>NS with shoulder im sure

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w/o shoulders subter is technically simming better cause with the new traits the ammount of damage you get from ur empowered subter is pretty reliable unlike rng dmg with empowered ruptre and BoTA procs

pulsar canyon Apr 18, 2017, 2:49 AM

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What does subter has to do with shoulders after the fix ? @robust marten

jovial veldt Apr 18, 2017, 3:33 AM

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anyone have ptr sims /. parse yet from ptr?

bright gorge Apr 18, 2017, 4:01 AM

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So with the kings and golden trait, is there any reason to have 3 vendetta artifacts?

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And no NS is better for single target now, sub no longer extends the shoulder crit time

rich temple Apr 18, 2017, 4:14 AM

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@bright gorge they generally sim very close, i sim higher with subterfuge still for example

bright gorge Apr 18, 2017, 4:17 AM

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Oh really? I figured since they hotfoxed it no

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Oh well I hate subterfuge for ST feels weird just spamming garrote for 3 second

rich temple Apr 18, 2017, 4:18 AM

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oh... no you don't spam it for 3 sec bro

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you just need to apply it within 3seconds of breaking stealth

bright gorge Apr 18, 2017, 4:25 AM

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Guess that's stupidity on my part for not adding mutilate to stealth bar lol

rich temple Apr 18, 2017, 4:25 AM

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aha.. yeah man that's rough

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especially since you're wasting half the shoulder buff that way... rip

bright gorge Apr 18, 2017, 4:26 AM

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Lol, #nightstalker problems

rich temple Apr 18, 2017, 4:26 AM

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i find subterfuge way easier, glad it sims higher

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plus, multiple garrotes if 2+ targets available

bright gorge Apr 18, 2017, 4:27 AM

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I'll have to try that out then! Would be nice not worrying about overlapping points for 5cp rupture

rich temple Apr 18, 2017, 4:28 AM

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sim it yourself to see but

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if you like the playstyle it'll probably be close enough to just use it anyway

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pulls ahead on multi target anyway (as i mentioned) and is nice in dungeons for multi-garroting trash

spark steppe Apr 18, 2017, 4:42 AM

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hello guys i need help with opner cds at start my spec assis

lilac sun Apr 18, 2017, 8:03 AM

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thraxi with bracers bad or good?

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which is better bracers with belt or shoes with belt

wraith obsidian Apr 18, 2017, 10:08 AM

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Hey all I'm 875 assassin wondering when agonising poison takes over alacrity. I've simmed myself with both and alacrity has come out around 4k ahead. I've got leg shoulders and maxed weapon. Thanks heaps

viscid sonnet Apr 18, 2017, 10:25 AM

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@wraith obsidian its hard to say exactly, but more mastery will generally benefit agonizing

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what are you at? and also which simcraft version are you using?

wraith obsidian Apr 18, 2017, 10:27 AM

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@viscid sonnet hey cheers for the reply. I'll just keep simming as I gear up.

viscid sonnet Apr 18, 2017, 10:28 AM

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if youre using the latest nightly builds (or probably even the slightly older release version) it should be question of mastery

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but older versions than that will cause weird behaviors

wraith obsidian Apr 18, 2017, 10:34 AM

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I'll have a look at my version when I get back to my computer. I haven't updated it since nighthold came out so it's probably out

viscid sonnet Apr 18, 2017, 10:35 AM

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then its definitely borked, update and re-sim 😌

wraith obsidian Apr 18, 2017, 10:36 AM

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Haha cheers man

modest ravine Apr 18, 2017, 4:43 PM

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is it confirmed that the rtb trait shifts the all of the probabilities down by removing the 1 buff roll chance? in my small sample size im getting about 15-20% 3 buff rolls instead of just 2 with AR up

normal slate Apr 18, 2017, 5:18 PM

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So, i got a question.
Last week i got a 900 ilvl version of Pharamere's Forbidden Grimoire(the trinket from Krosus that fires an Orb of Destruction from 10 yards range that detonates for ~600k damage after 4 sec and has a 1 min cd). How does SimC simulate an item like this on a melee dps? I ask this because its amazing for cleave fights as subt when you have the shoulders. Its cd lines up perfectly with your sprint cooldown (you cant attack during 3 seconds of sprint anyway so you can make 10 yards distance to cast it) so it will always have 100% crit chance when used. I assume something like this is not in the APL? if not, would anyone have the time to make one or teach me to make it myself? I kinda want to sim this trinket vs other trinkets in cleave situations.

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Pretty sure nobody even considered using this trinket as a rogue?

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http://i.imgur.com/KPBYuIL.png

random veldt Apr 18, 2017, 5:20 PM

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that's because it's not a good trinket 🤔

normal slate Apr 18, 2017, 5:21 PM

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it crits for 1.2 mil per target hit every minute.

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single target it will suck yes, but on 3+ its a lot better

modest ravine Apr 18, 2017, 5:31 PM

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i have a question. how do you sim gear you dont have equipped. example being relics. where do you get the string for the sim to run a relic without inserting it?

heavy moon Apr 18, 2017, 5:41 PM

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@modest ravine you can look on wowhead for it

modest ravine Apr 18, 2017, 5:41 PM

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ok. i tried that for my 855 relic but it doesn't have one for that ilvl. i can use the 850 one though. thanks

tropic plinth Apr 18, 2017, 6:39 PM

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is there a way to use the simc addon to quickly get the simc string for a relic that is in my bag?

oak jay Apr 18, 2017, 6:47 PM

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There's a guide on how to find the string for relics

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You have to find the IDs on wowhead

hallow hazel Apr 18, 2017, 6:54 PM

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in the same vein, I just simmed myself replacing the ID of my last 875 MA relic with a 900 mutilate relic and it showed a 8k dps increase over the MA. I have no boots. Trust the SIM?

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@oak jay i was just going to message you lol

normal slate Apr 18, 2017, 10:17 PM

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Is there not anyone who can help me with my question? (scroll a bit up)

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@split sorrel simgod? 😛

sterile gale Apr 18, 2017, 10:35 PM

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that trinket?

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I can help you without simming it

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it trash

normal slate Apr 18, 2017, 10:38 PM

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The feelcraft is strong in this one.

proud locust Apr 18, 2017, 10:39 PM

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hello guys i have a question how do we compare different relics on simcraft

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how do we get the id number of relics without actually putting it in our weapon

sterile gale Apr 18, 2017, 10:40 PM

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you can get IDs from wowhead

proud locust Apr 18, 2017, 10:41 PM

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i thought that was just for artifact traits

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how would i get the id number of a relic wihtout all the triats cause i see relics and artifact weapon traits have different id numbers

rich temple Apr 18, 2017, 10:47 PM

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you'd have to go to the wowhead page and select the spec/ilvl for the relic

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alternatively... https://raidbots.com/simbot/relic

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site hosts SimC, just flip it to nightly build in the advanced options on the relic page, and make sure you're comparing in the correct relic slot(s)

toxic flower Apr 18, 2017, 10:53 PM

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I just got 905 Memento out of my cache. I currently have 895 Convergence and 890 Frond+Socket. I know the Frond is simming high by mistake, but what do you guys think is better?

rich temple Apr 18, 2017, 10:54 PM

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Frond isn't really oversimming, it's just got high variance

toxic flower Apr 18, 2017, 10:54 PM

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I see, I see. I simmed the 3 trinkets and it looks like Frond/CoF are stil better than Memento.

rich temple Apr 18, 2017, 10:55 PM

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I'd suggest checking your sims to see what % contribution you're seeing from frond

toxic flower Apr 18, 2017, 10:56 PM

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I already closed them out unfortunately. But what difference would that make?

rich temple Apr 18, 2017, 10:56 PM

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It should be slightly above what you'll tend to see most often on a boss fight, for example I simmed at 4.5% but usually get ~3% on a given fight (may not be currently valid)

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Just to show that it might seem to oversim cause 4.5>3, but once in a while it'll spike much higher, hence the avg from sim being higher

toxic flower Apr 18, 2017, 10:58 PM

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I've gotta run, but I'd love to ask you more about this maybe later tonight. I added you

rich temple Apr 18, 2017, 10:58 PM

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Okay feel free to PM me, but I'm not any kind of expert, I'll try to direct you where to ask whatever I might not know though

atomic flame Apr 18, 2017, 11:22 PM

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there is no feelcraft on that trinket

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it is a terrible trinket for rogue

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it has flat haste

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it can only be used once a minute for very minimal damage