although actual results have a sample size of exactly one raid night
#tc-research
cunning pebble
coarse topaz
is there a simc option to handle something like mythic botanist, where there are 3 targets, but priority target is all that matters?
heavy moon
@coarse topaz why would the other targets matter? it doesnt affect st
odd sedge
I cant possibly understand how subterfuge is better for ST
simc says it has a damage per execute of 1.2 million, with subterfuge
with NS my envenom hits for 3.4mill
and rupture even on a subterfuge build has a dpe of 2.6 mill
@split sorrel ? some help please 😄
craggy zephyr
100% garrote dmg hits hard + 100% crit most of it
pure kraken
So i just got a 905 Socket Memento, and its simming 11k dps less than my 890 socket Frond....is frond just being over simmed here or is it really that much better?
drifting cipher
Have they changed frond? i see many sim better with it now in april.
grave wharf
There has been a pinned message for literally a month about Frond
yes it's good
yes it's high variance
drifting cipher
But i thought the inconsitency of it, made other trinkets better now?
limber lark
!trinkets
drifting cipher
But i seem wrong
vast galleon
!trinkets
placid abyss
!trinkets
coarse topaz
@heavy moon Basically figuring out whether FoK for the combo points is worth it if the damage is 0. Considering 2pT19, etc.
heavy moon
@coarse topaz even with no tier it would not be worth
coarse topaz
Right, so simming with 3 targets in simc causes it to use FoK, which you wouldn't in botanist. But you would still gain from spreading ruptures for energy I'd imagine. I guess I can just edit fok out of the apl.
grave wharf
it's minor, but I'd assume the free garrotes from subterfuge would be worth it for the increased energy regen as long as you can get a poison application up
coarse topaz
then look at the priority target parse
grave wharf
would be interested to see if spreading ruptures is worth the resource cost just for the energy return
since that's a lot bigger investment than free garrotes
pure sluice
can anyone link nighty build simcraft?
coarse topaz
ok, that's how I've been playing it. wanted to play around with sim to see if I was doing anything wrong.
onyx solstice
guys i have a question my ilvl 904 simcraft says the highest valued stat after mastery is haste? hos is this possible??
how*
for assassination*
ivory stag
is belt oversimming in any way?
urban wasp
yes it oversims because simc uses a uniform health distribution, in reality it has a much smaller effect in raids, especially if you're in a good guild
finite thunder
@onyx solstice you are using a old version , probably
somber lynx
hail friends. i'm looking for some help simming (simulationcraft) artifact talents (not relics). relics are easier to do because you can find the name/ilevel to ID relationship via wowhead. any chance y'all have a way of decoding the simc output for 'artifact'? thanks in advance!
sterile gale
just export from the wowhead artifact calc
click on the link button and there will be a simc string
frigid canopy
how do you burst with DoS in assass
onyx solstice
I was using a old version confirmes. Thanka for the input ;)
lament lake
i know it will vary based on current ilvl but im looking for 900ilvl range answers --- how big of a dps increase was the final gold trait from 7.2 worth to you?
steel pine
10% at least for me. I'm using Kb on cooldown.
sterile jolt
In my sims, about 5%
cyan marsh
been away, hearing Subterfuge > Nightstalker now? have we got sims/proof of this so far?
tribal scroll
you've got an infinite amount of sims
because you can do them yourself, for your own character
cyan marsh
Not actually at home, would otherwise
proven orbit
can someone explain why subterfuge sims so much higher than nightstalker if you can 5 point rupture that gets extra crit chance, gushing wound damage increase, and can hit blood of the assassinated for extra damage? compared to just 125% on garrote that's has a 16% trait?
robust marten
how can i add kb trait to my weapon to see how muhc more it would be simming for
quartz halo
use wowhead http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc/rogue/assassination/AvTSIrA link in the top right
robust marten
no way tthats 80k increase
jolly venture
It seems sub still better even with 4/4 traits in rupture dmg and crit, but when Blood of Assasinated procs, garrote damage nowhere near. Another pray on RNG versus more average damage, fucking Legion.
remote hound
are the boots still better then the bracers for ass since the changes?
heavy moon
yes
candid shell
Where to get the latest simcraft?
finite thunder
@candid shell http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
light sail
So I recently got shoulders and have boots (assa) from before, how does my opener change now?
I guess we dont use subterfuge anymore since they fixed the bug
minor acorn
rustic abyss
For me its 2k, so i use ns
cerulean junco
using subterfuge just to get used to it for t20 :X
wind lotus
is the trinket http://www.wowhead.com/item=142168/majordomos-dinner-bell properly implemented in simc?
split sorrel
Not sure
brisk comet
have bis relics changed when you use boots + CoF and you have sinister circulation or is it still 2 MA / 1 GW?
late willow
@brisk comet Not 100% sure on that but I know that 7/7 MA sims higher than adding a GW trait
7/7 MA + 3/4 GW > 6/7 MA + 4/4 GW for dps
late wren
hey guys..idk whats wrong with my simcraft but can someone sim me... Kurager on US-Proudmoore
graceful drift
@robust marten I think you can edit the line more towards the top of your simc and make it say you have 1 point in that trait. I think there is also a way to copy a string from wow head artifact calculator and you just pick the points you ant
late wren
my simcraft is simming me waaayyy lower than my actually dps
like 200-300k dps..
ehh more like 200k
tribal scroll
a) do you have the latest updated nightly
b) have you correctly imported (right talents, gear)
late wren
nvm i got it lol
old arch
Have experienced the same as @late wren when built simc under linux. Armory import was not working correctly, it wont load artifact info at all.
late wren
went from 583kdps to 811k dps lmao
old arch
that was probably another issue then
late wren
is the KB trait up to date in simc?
split narwhal
Yes
late wren
woah the opener simc used is so much differenat than what i use lol
*different
is this what you guys are doing??
radiant dust
how good is mr robot best is bag feature?
vast galleon
@late wren I've noticed Simc does indeed have very different openers than proposed on forums and on this channel.
void knoll
Isn't it due to SimC being based on a priority list as opposed to set action list? like no way to specify specific opener rotation
(I may be completely wrong)
late wren
idk i mean this is the first time ive seen simc have an opener that drastically different than what is considered a "normal" opener
like opening with kb into 1 cp rupture??\
that cant be optimal right?
slender edge
is nightblooming frond still simming higher than it should, in simc's newest iteration?
late wren
not sure
novel lava
how do i get simcraft to list exactly what abilities it used and when like in the screenshot above?
late wren
I re-simmed myself and the opener it used this time seems a bit more reasonable but still opening with kb
do u think its cause of the kb trait?
in simc after you sim yourself scroll down the the section labeled "action priority list" and then click on sample sequence table
novel lava
ty
mine also mutilates at 4cp in opener
with shoulders it mutilates twice
garrote kingsbane opener is what i use in game and my sim does that
lofty lily
use new nightly
but the opener for the new nightly is pretty weird as well @split sorrel
late wren
does anyone remember if simc used to try and line up vendetta and kb before new trait?
cause i just looked at the sequence table for the sim i link above and this is what i found
Every M (yellow) is KB and G(blue) is vendetta
also im curious about the second to last pair of kb and vendetta in that sequence, is it really better to use the kb before vendetta for the slightly extra energy or wouldnt it be better to use after vendetta for more dmg on the initial kb hit?
or maybe im just way overthinking this lol
split sorrel
ahah
turbid shale
trained soldier is simming higher than satyr for me, can this be trusted?
turbid shale
i would rather have more mastery so i hope simc is correct but not sure how to confirm
all the guides still says to use satyr
late wren
i mean u can always just switch back if it ends up being worse
yea thats my understanding as well
worthy bobcat
late wren
thats a rather short guide
just make sure u have newest nightly simc
which u can find here
woven garden
is simc broken after golden trait?
its simming me 1M cant be true
plus values are all fucked up
pawn values i mean
gaunt gale
are you on the latest nightly?
gaunt gale
yeah
woven garden
k im gonna try it then thx mate
dusty marlin
yo, anyone know which id MA is on the simc line? wanna see how much i gained by putting my 43 there
sullen dagger
you have to generate a string on wowhead's artifact calculator
you can't simply edit a value in your current string
dusty marlin
ok thought i could just identify the MA in artifact=43:0:0:0:0:323:3:324:3:325:3:326:3:327:3:328:3:329:3:330:4:331:3:332:1:333:1:334:1:335:1:337:1:346:1:347:1:1276:1:1384:1:1577:4:1578:1:1579:1:1651:1 and put it down 1 value 😄
deep egret
im simming for over 1 mil as well. idk whats going on. even with the latest nightly
sullen dagger
you cannot
put the points you want to sim in the calculator
then click link to generate a simc string
late wren
wow...i sim pretty much the exact sim with a 880 frond as i do with a 895 DoS with socket
i really need to get myself a good frond
i feel like i should know this already but what is the difference between the "nightly simc" and just normal simc
is it just optimized for rogues?
summer sentinel
nightly is the most current itteration of simc so it will be the most accurate
late wren
hey could you do me a favor and sim "Kheldar US-Proudmoore" for me
i just simmed him and idt mine was accurate
grave wharf
FYI to the people asking about artifact traits, you can always just import your char and then do a copy to a new unit and use artifact_override=Master_Assassin:7 or whatever number you want it to be for comparison
summer sentinel
using the armory isnt very reliable from what i understand
grave wharf
don't need the full string
late wren
what is more reliable?
summer sentinel
the simulationcraft addon
heavy moon
Why isnt it reliable?
late wren
i just tried downloading the addon and i put in in my addons folder but its not showing up in wow
summer sentinel
type /simc
late wren
i did...no like its not even registering that there is a "simulationcraft" addon even in the addons menu in game
summer sentinel
you have to restart client
late wren
do i have to extract a certain file from the folder i downloaded?
yea i have multiple times
summer sentinel
you got the addon off curse?
summer sentinel
idk then
late wren
hm okay ill keep playing around with it
do you think it could be a conflicting addon that is making it not load?
idrk
i feel like if its in my addons folder then it should at least show up in the addons menu in game right?even if it doesnt work?
split sorrel
it has been updated for 7.2
river sierra
!stjern
odd sedge
aethys any reason why its simming a lot more dps for subterfuge? kinda weird I cant understand why
it shouldnt, right?
@split sorrel
tough dirge
2.25x garote vs 1.5 env compare your average casts
smoky brook
mantle with NS is dope
odd sedge
you also lose 1 gcd to pandemic, under mantle... losing a mutilate or envenom each vanish
tough dirge
Ofc there are a bunch of extra factors. But it should be a start to understand why
robust marten
Sub is better in terms of avg. but NS will outshine if u can get a blood of the assassinated proc on the vanish rupture
but thats not garunteed
raw arrow
is NS'ed envenom superior to NS'ed rupture? there's a pin in #228878985210101760 saying it isn't, yet simc is doing vanish>envenom with NS
split narwhal
You dont vanish Rup with shoulders
odd sedge
no one uses vanish rupt now, its envenom at leastr with mantle
rich temple
with mantle* (shoulders)
subterfuge garrote dmg is awesome though
and really nice when you can vanish-> garrote multiple targets
crimson hinge
i'm not sure we should be talking about it here, but that pin was from many moons ago when some bad information was spread
rich temple
that was early nighthold when people were considering it only cause of 4piece, wasn't it?
normal slate
Does anyone know how the subt legendary boots are simmed? What kind of range from the target is used normally?
Got them today, but when i sim it they are inferior to my bracers by quite a margin.
(when combo'd with mantle)
viscid sonnet
@odd sedge iirc aethys also found a bug with NS when redoing the assa stuff for 7.2
it was oversimming a bit
so a combination of factors
fervent vector
!Aethys
grave wharf
@odd sedge Are these your logs? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4NFhGpbaQCKDm2VJ#fight=28
(assuming they are) In these, your avg crit envenom outside of NS is 1.5 mil. So NS is contributing 750k every 2 minutes for 6250 dps.
Meanwhile, Subterfuge buffs 1 out of every 7 garrotes for a garrote dps increase of 18% (1/7 * 2.25 + 6/7 * 1.0 = 1.18). Your garrote did 7.8% of your dps, so about 62k itself. 18% of that is 11160 dps.
That puts Subterfuge at about 5k dps better than NS.
grand umbra
Is anyone else having issues with simulationcraft?
Simmed myself a week ago at 510k, ilvl ~ 875. Now I'm 886 and simming at 400k?
finite thunder
yeah, versions (especially after a patch) tend to change a lot really fast , so be sure to download every nightly build for more accurate sims 😄
grand umbra
yeah it just wasn't coming up on the front page of simcraft, I just ended up using raidbots instead
halcyon basin
@split sorrel is the dos+shoulders apl updated since they fixed the 9s shoulders buff
?
nocturne niche
This is going to sound strange but...how come my actual DPS is so much higher than my sim? I sim about 760k~ and I regularly, on ST with average RNG, break my sim DPS by quite a large margin. For example, my Mythic Krosus kill was at 850K~. Curious if anyone has any ideas...I'd like to ensure the validity of my sims, as I use them often for performance/gear reasons. -Vicewind-Proudmoore
I update the nightly build frequently as well
thick bluff
nocturne niche
I didn't mean for it to come across like that, just that its clear my sims aren't accurate as they are clearly too low and I'd like to resolve it if there are any known ways that this might occur 😄
urban wasp
Vicewind : 835805 dps
I just simmed your character on a 5min fight. but whatever that's not the point, simulations aren't supposed to tell you how much dps you'll do exactly on x fight. your boss parse is 1 iteration.
better for #228879234540503040 though
nocturne niche
Right but you're missing my point, I'm not discussing one parse, but rather my performance as a whole is always consistent above my sim by a large margin. I'm not getting 835,805. That's what I want to resolve, I'm not sure what's wrong where I'm simming inaccurately.
urban wasp
have you done 30k+ parses?
nocturne niche
You're subverting my question entirely and I'm not sure why. I'm asking for help on how to simulate my character more accurately. Forget the in game performance, there's a large difference between the number you just gave and how I sim.
urban wasp
if you think you're not simming yourself with correct options send html link of report if you can
nocturne niche
Will do
sage pewter
can someone tell me what the M Foci import string is?
sterile jolt
@nocturne niche The big variation there will be fight length
Further, the summarised number on simc is your mean dps - the range, as you can see on the bar can be quite significant.
ember nebula
any idea why haste would be simming higher than mastery?? im weirded out lol
haste 33.71> mastery 28
proven leaf
How much of each do you have?
willow pecan
@ember nebula you are probably not using latest simC version.
royal laurel
how are you guys simming which artifact trait to pick next? is there a smoother way than running 3-4 individual sims?
royal laurel
yeah but i'm not sure if i should pick gushing wound or toxic blades for my 44th trait
or even master alchemist
~152% mastery
royal laurel
heh
royal laurel
2
civic cradle
oh boy
royal laurel
picked master assass for my first after golden
royal laurel
2 MA cof
civic cradle
so you picked MA before golden?
civic cradle
that's fine then, MA should be your most valuable one
royal laurel
i feel like picking MA was a shit move in hindsight because it never aligns with kingsbane now anyways and holding kingsbane for 10-15 sec feels so shit
civic cradle
you never hold KB with the golden
royal laurel
i know
odd sedge
thats not simulation talk people
royal laurel
oh - ok sorry my initial question was how to sim traits though
civic cradle
you have shoulders, go with toxic blades next
royal laurel
that's what my gut tells me
odd sedge
also i dont get why people are fixated on the value of MA being only to synch with KB, its not, its to reduce your very powerful main dps cd
royal laurel
but i want to back it up with sims if possible
odd sedge
then sim it
royal laurel
yes wunju but it's only 4 sec
odd sedge
but 4+4+4 etc it compounds
royal laurel
yeah i know
but
the value of MA increases when paired with the legendary boots
right?
royal laurel
so that means
civic cradle
true even w/o boots
royal laurel
without the boots which i don't have
well let's stop non-sim talk
there is no better way to sim traits than just put them in, sim it and look at the total dps
yes?
thought there might be a tab within the simcraft results that shows relative power of traits - just wanted to make sure
there isn't
proud locust
how come my opener keeps changing on simcraft on the ample sequence table it wants em to open with garrote kingsbane rupture mulitlate mutilate envenom multialte vendetta vanish garrote then spam mut and envenom does anybody d that?
i never heard of using kingsbane before a evenom
merry pike
u have golden
royal laurel
it's telling me the same with new goilden trait and leg shoulders
but it really seems shitty to use it before first envenom
civic cradle
its odd because if its prioritizing KB CDR it should do KB -> garrote instead
buoyant pendant
You lose out on the kb cd reduction otherwise though
Idk if the APL is updated with shoulders and golden trait yet though for you eowyndra
cerulean junco
looks like a mantle opener
with subterfuge
the seond vanish ends with kingsbane if you use it tha early and you gain some seconds cdr
proud locust
well i been doing there new opener and i got to say kingbane cmes back up alot faster like this
maybe thats why its good
civic cradle
what do you mean a lot faster
its like 3 GCDs different than the other one
that's at max 3 seconds faster
proud locust
well do you guys think its good to copy simcrafts openers or na then?
i didnt really count akai it just felt like it came up alot faster cause my vendetta was so far from coming back up when kingsbane came off colldown
split sorrel
Assa APL is still WIP.
And I've different openers in mind
but do remember that one APL handle a tons of different legs//traits/trinkets/tiers/talents/... combinations
so it's hard to find in one attemp the best one for all of them
civic cradle
Exactly, that's why it's good to try your own APLs for different circumstances and if any improvements are found relay them to Aethys preferably 😄
split sorrel
During the week I'm usually busy, since now I'm in week-end I'll take a look at Assa to fix it
Well, tweak it rather than fix
nothing is "broken"
winter wraith
do you still recommend the current APL opener it uses?
split sorrel
tbh, diff is very minor
except if fight length is 20s 😄
it's all about "will you get an extra KB usage or not"
winter wraith
haha
split sorrel
and it's very hard to predict
winter wraith
yeah, I've been trying to use the APL opener but muscle memory throws me off sometimes.
torn dome
Actually opening the way the apl opens destroys your opener burst
winter wraith
yeah, but it seemed to "flow" a bit as well, that's why i was kinda up in the air
torn dome
The usual opener nets you significantly more dps over a minute
So the 3 or so cd off kb is not worth it
Talking mantle here
winter wraith
ok I hav eno mantle
torn dome
Back when I did forced opener sims I found either my ancient opener or my recent NS envenom opener
winter wraith
but the opener seems to relate to the mantle a bit more
APL opener is:
gar-mut-rup-vend-mut-mut-vanish-rup-mut-env-kb-mut-env...
what I used to do was:
gar-mut-rup-mut-mut-vanish-rup-vend-kb-mut-env
torn dome
In regards to the forced openers with current traits
Garrote damage ramps up so fast with all the multipliers
torn dome
using kb as second global resulted in more than 10% lower than any of these
so its not even comparable
Also as a side note
It is possible to get a subter buffed garrote as 4th gcd after vanish
So you can essentially only waste a second or so when refreshing garrote
nova girder
@torn dome can you PLS write Down the NS opener used in you img above?
torn dome
feel free to read it
nova girder
Im on phone, cant Open the 2nd img 😒
torn dome
its not an image its html
nova girder
Ok
cerulean junco
apl is overcapping some energy at the opener ?
cerulean junco
couldnt you wait for while , maybe including another envenom/mutilate
winter wraith
that's all mantle though correct?
torn dome
All mantle
winter wraith
subtr is simming a few thousand higher for me without mantle, just not sure I like the switch
and no other logs seem to be making the switch either, sans mantle
odd sedge
on that subter sim, the opener casts vanish into envenom? and then doesnt refresh garrote in the 3 secs period?
Sample Sequence
0124568FAFCHDFEHFHFHBFHF9HFGFFHFF9H
@torn dome
odd sedge
huh? so whats the point of sub in the first place?
torn dome
Garrote damage?
odd sedge
wait so i´ve been reading subterfuge wrong for months? you dont have to be stealth for it to be buffed? thats nice
torn dome
You do
Or under subterfuge buff, just as the talent says
The "bis" opener refreshes garrote
And is slightly behind not refreshing it
cerulean junco
since its in your crit window
and garrotes damage is not that high..
i can believe that
torn dome
The moment t19 swaps to t20 refreshing garrote will 100% win
silver valley
sorry to jump in the conversation but, why do we spec subt then? just for the first garrot?
silver valley
ok
odd sedge
its weird i know
torn dome
In addition subter is superior in instances, cleave, its more flexible etc
odd sedge
y without a doubt
cerulean junco
thats all with mantle
odd sedge
even if I like cloak + mantle and NS opener on trash packs
cerulean junco
and with mantle you dont want to use rupture in your crit window
so, you can benefit from that first enhanced garrote, but if you want to utilize nightstalker you need to "waste " a global
silver valley
ok, thanks
winter wraith
without mantle, subtr could still sim higher. it does for me
cerulean junco
without mantle you definetly should use it after vanish
deep bloom
how can subtr sim higher without mantle?
proud locust
so weak i should do your opener with the 4th golden trait and ignore the one they got right now
im very confused
torn dome
The current apl doesnt have handcrafted openers afaik.
These are just my findings I had when I fiddled with forced openers
proud locust
yea i feel like your diffetnly gives me more dps in my opner
yours
especially how you can spam mut evenmon the whole time without refreshing garrote again got so much burst
after vanish
i peaked to 3 mil on the dummys with it lol
cause of poison bomb procs
marsh sail
Has simcraft7.2 been released yet?
website doesnt say so, how accurate are the nightly builds?
split sorrel
accurate
frail carbon
@split sorrel Sorry Aethys, is there a guide on how to compile/use the 4d plot "module"? (I don't even know if it's public or not) tried to google it but maybe that's not how it's called
marsh sail
Cool, cheers Aethys
frail carbon
Ah found it, thanks aethys
bleak sky
@torn dome It's partially because it's hard to line up the 15s cd of garrote with the vanish window
torn dome
what is
bleak sky
why we don't use garrote during the subterfuge window after opening
torn dome
it has no cd
bleak sky
outside of subterfuge it does
torn dome
that sim is 40 seconds
bleak sky
oh
novel lava
so, as using garrote during mantle buff is a dps loss after vanish, we can assume nightstalker gains more value for every vanish cast and will be superior after x vanishes?
bleak sky
Nope
hollow horizon
Why isn't it? You can get an extra envenom off during your mantal window if you don't use garrote, so surely NS would be better the longer the duration of the fight
bleak sky
Rereading his question the answer is maybe. But I doubt it. The number of vanishes required is absurdly large. And garrote will naturally line up with vanish down the line again. Mythic Gul'dan is the only fight where this is theoretically possible.
hollow horizon
why do you need garrote to line up with vanish?
bleak sky
Even then Subterfuge is superior because you have multiple targets
You don't. But you use it if it does.
hollow horizon
but the point of the sim was to show that casting an extra envenom during your crit window is better than using garrote
bleak sky
The point of the sim showed it wasn't worth delaying garrote or vanish to ensure you got the subterfuge buff.
Unless I've missed something in the past 4 days or so.
winter wraith
well that seems to make more sense if you were delaying garrote application just for the buff
split narwhal
What is the override to adding Stats into sims? Like adding more mastery
torn dome
custom enchants
late willow
Also stats at the bottom of the import in simc just remove the # to uncomment the Stat you want to change
stray portal
Since the APL is updated for mantle/DoS now, does that mean I can trust simc when it comes to valuing it vs other trinkets?
calm dust
Can sombeody help me with Kil Jaedens Trinket, Simc cant use it, How can i implement the apl for that?
late willow
It should use it
calm dust
It doesnt. i get an error like :" MPAP_1T Kil'jaedens940_Angerboda880 missing 'use_item' action for item "kiljaedens_burning_wish" (slot=trinket1)" and it isnt shown in the damage source chart
late willow
How are you importing your character into simc?
calm dust
with battlenet
lone crest
Hi guys, can someone help me with something on Simcraft? ^^; It's saying my rogue is 824 and is showing all the proper gear for him, but in game he's listed as 857
late willow
Name/server
late willow
Oh you didnt log out with it
late willow
Thats why
Dont do that
The code for the APL is generated based on what you had equipped
calm dust
ok. i give it a try thanks
quartz halo
use the addon its better tbh
https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/simulationcraft
oblique lantern
ptsd kicking in
red flower
any updates for simc been away for few weeks currently have 715-01
wind lotus
Lots. get latest nightly.
rose stump
is ask Mr Robot anygood for Rogue this expac?
robust marten
for what?
Mr robot isnt all that usefull anymore with shit like pawn. unless you have certain break points u need to reach. which rogues dont really have. in terms of finiding out what gear is more optimal. u can get the same info with simulationcraft and pawn
!simcraft
quiet bramble
So I typically sim my own character but recently it crashes my computer requiring a hard reset any advice
wind lotus
is your cpu overclocked? Might have an issue when it is under pressure
quiet bramble
Only slightly I'll drop it back to stock next bootup
hazy ocean
is here a bot to sim myself?
regal agate
@hazy ocean https://raidbots.com/simbot
hazy ocean
ty
quiet bramble
Sweet didn't know this existed thank you as well
proud locust
so do i really open up with garrote then kingsbane and rupture now?
proud locust
how come my sim craft stat weights and changing dramtically after i sim each time?
without putting new gear on
thin spire
Why would you do that? @proud locust
proud locust
do what?
thin spire
The opener
proud locust
thats what sim craft is saying how it opens now
thin spire
U need to get 5 stacks of AP before using kb
proud locust
why does simcraft do that in its opener then?
proud locust
yea i dont do it
i just thought copying a opener from simcraft would be good
i guess not all the time
viscid sonnet
@thin spire no ur supposed to do as the sim says
getting KB out ASAP and starting its cooldown is more important than the damage loss from not waiting for stacks /vendetta
it does feel weird tho
lethal lynx
!trinkets
gloomy aurora
!trinkets
lament salmon
anybody got a lit of best outlaw trinkets
toxic flower
!nightly
safe aspen
@viscid sonnet no you shouldn't just blindly do what sim tells u to, it's not perfect
digital patrol
tough dirge
Wrong channel
torpid roost
Anyone know why trained soldier has the higher upper quartile? I'm thinking its from vendetta / KB aligning - I have CoF and the new gold trait, but no boots. The other enchant is satyr
sleek moss
hey, maybe someone can help me with this: I am generating a simcraft string via a script using google sheets. This all looks fine until I paste it into simcraft. For some reason simcraft always adds quotation marks around my string. Pasting the string to another application, e.g. word, there are no quotation marks. This is related to the usage of '\n' in my code, but that is the only thing I was able to figure out until now. Is there a way to get rid of them, or do I have to do it by hand every time? 😃
split sorrel
@torn dome please don't spread informations without anything to backup. This is a report showing kb as 2nd gcd vs kb after vendetta, those are without any legs and with boots+mantle, on 1min (+-6s) fight.
torn dome
Not on pc but what about kb secobd gcd?
torn dome
Ur report has the normal opener at top?
split sorrel
the diff is kb as 2nd or kb after vendetta (& env)
issue is mainly garrote
which I'm fixing now
torn dome
Using kb with no sot or ago stacks tanks kb damage on opener. And you get what in return?
split sorrel
it's all about fight length
torn dome
Im strictly talking opener sequence. Aka first 10 globals
And how one would open optimally
split sorrel
yes but if it skrews the rest of the fight, what's the point ?
I mean
if you can get one more Kb
do you think it's worth to delay ?
and I do agree that's it's unpredictable
due to how a fight length can change
torn dome
3 seconds over a 5 min fight?
torn dome
Okay but im still sort of missing the point. You are saying kb as second gcd would net a better opener?
split sorrel
no
torn dome
That was my sole point
split sorrel
ok then I misunderstood your point
because if you consider 20s
sure kb after 5 ago stack & stricly inside vendetta is better
but considering how it desync after that
torn dome
Okay. I just wanted to prove that kb as second global is bad opener
torn dome
I know
split sorrel
it's like saying
blowing 3 shadow dance back to back
is a better opener
than delaying them a little
this is true on 20s
but false on 1min30
you get what I mean ?
although
torn dome
Yes. But would using kb as second gcd ever net more over a fight?
split sorrel
I'm looking at 6/7MA because there are some case
where it's worth to delay
means
that if you delay later
delaying on the opener
is good aswell
since you'll loose anyway one potential KB
so just loose one overall
and sync 3 KB better
torn dome
I mainly tried to emulate opener damage differences using strict sequences
torn dome
Yes
split sorrel
with it is
torn dome
It was between me and alaiz :p
And people were generally asking why sim used kb second gcd
viscid sonnet
did you come to any conclusions re: the best opener as a strict sequence
viscid sonnet
what @torn dome talked about, like what is the best combo if fight length is 20-30 secs
torn dome
It was just me and alaiz and bastu comparing our different openers when 72 hit
split sorrel
kb after ur vend vanish env
viscid sonnet
neat :^)
nova girder
So can i trust simcraft opener wise, like its shown under SampleSequence or not?
nova girder
Ty! 😃
pulsar canyon
When I sim myself from the addon strings I get about 10k lower results
But much less strings on the simulate window
Is that normal ?
It seems to skip all the conditional strings etc
regal agate
the string is shorter becouse its without the apl. the apl is auto generated if you sim it.
both should give same output
hazy ocean
Has anyone taken in consideration, that sub could be leading specc for ToS?
split sorrel
It's up to Blizzard balance team 😃
drowsy rivet
is draught still BIS with mantle + boots? cuz frond is simming so munch higher for me
regal agate
interaction changed that makes both close with frond beeing higher in most situation (assuming shoulder legendary)
grave owl
So i look at the Sub opener in Stjern's guide and the opener used in sims, how come they are different and which one is better?
regal agate
simcrafts opener is the right one.
late bear
Where can u see how simcraft opens ?
robust marten
why does simc like to open with KB instead of garrote. is that optimal?
split sorrel
prolly an old version ?
merry pike
how updated are the other specs for aethysrotation? for example fury warrior
split sorrel
tbh, use simcminmax discord for that
and as the readme says, it relies on SimC APL
so for us, rogue, it's pretty cool since I do spend a lot of time on that. I cannot guarantee performances for others classes
lament citrus
are there any sims or has anyone done some testing on vanish env vs vanish ruptures with mantle and nightstalker?
seems with the most recent nightly it went from subterfuge simming 3k higher to only 700dps higher
late willow
yes
feral warren
anyone able to pm me 2 apls one for vanish envenom and one for vanish rup i would greatly appreciate it:)
with mantle that is
sick tartan
got a question regarding simcraft. is it ienough as an assa rogue to sim patchwerk 5 min fights?
for stat weights?
maiden cairn
odd sedge
it uses simcraft son should be accurate, not sure what build they use tho and how recent
gaunt gale
as far as I'm aware, it should have swapped to the new official 7.2 release from 8/4.
some specific options cause it to use the latest nightly instead though
craggy zephyr
in raidbots in can choose between the most recent nightly build or the release build
you*
split sorrel
everything should be okay with raidbots, if you have any issue with let me know and I'll have a talk with Seriallos (raidbots maker) about it 😃
storm vale
Is simcraft running Roll the Bones "correctly" now?
Or is it still pretty much "does not work"?
split sorrel
why wouldn't it works ?
storm vale
I just feel like I remembered something from a while back that simcraft didn't handle roll the bones rerolling like it should
Just looking for confirmation that I can trust my sims 😃
nova girder
Hy folks, simmed my toon with latest nightly and stat weights telling me that mastery~Agi - could this be true? 4th golden/shoulders/wrists 165% mastery unbuffed
storm vale
@split sorrel Here's what is confusing me. Currently simming my live char using hectic add cleave and buffs turned off. SnD comes out ahead of Rtb/MfD combo by a good 30k
storm vale
Gear: Omis - Argent Dawn EU
reports?
not sure what you mean there. not simcraft guru 😛
regal agate
run your simulation and save the output (the report) and upload it (in discord or DM aethys)
storm vale
aah. ty
nova plover
Has anyone simmed if 7 ma 4 gw or 6 ma 5 gw is better? I have no idea how to sim it otherwise I would do it myself
viscid sonnet
@nova plover when i last simmed 7 MA won, but thats bound to vary
mortal cobalt
anyone simmed sentinels eternal refuge with 3x mastery gems for sin?
hallow cosmos
guys, how can i change the traits levels on simulcraft or should i follow the standard trait allocation (post 35) as proposed on icy-veins?
ah no sorry, just saw where
raven tusk
blazing flame
Hi ! is there a way to sim RTB with only Loaded dice ?
With overwrite or something ?
dusty marlin
is the standard apl for subterfuge assa wrong? it uses 2 mutilates during mantlebuff in opener
rustic abyss
Might be because you got parried?
blazing flame
Nobody now how to override with loaded dice ?
lime trail
i got the 7.2 simcraft but when i run the simulation, i dont see draught of souls being used. any idea on how to fix that?
frail gust
thoughts on chaos talisman trinket?
blazing flame
If anyone want to try something with RTB https://pastebin.com/uNiYY9qf
main badger
was woundering ..with the new golden trait . ( lvl42) SC ur KB dont align with vendetta så er leggo boots still worth useing ?
urban wasp
wild thicket
!help
atomic flame
I couldn't find this anywhere, but if I want to sim multiple traits from my current start point, what would I do?
It's something like copy=, but I'm not sure of exact formatting?
split narwhal
Without spaces you dont need them i believe, but copy="test 1" you would
regal agate
@atomic flame look pins in #228878985210101760
calm sinew
Interesting stat weights after putting on my new boots... Mastery is now more valuable than Agility. Weird, that's a first.
atomic flame
Yeah, I got it don't owryy
maiden cargo
i'm using the latest nightly build of simcraft and apparently on my assa rogue i'm simming 837k with boots and will of valeera (900 dos and 895 cof), and 836k with boots and insignia. How is it even possible ?
novel lava
how do i get the apl to delay every second kingsbane for vendetta?
trying to sim 7ma mantle bracers without cof and, even with kingsbane on cd not saving second KB for vendetta, the result is very close to my 7ma mantle boots cof
round canyon
also the part where the ring has a ton of haste and no mastery
alongisde valeera getting a 3rd secondary stat in 7.2
torpid roost
Is there an easy way to test trait combinations? Like an over-ride for relics
split narwhal
@torpid roost Check the pins in #228878985210101760
torpid roost
I'm finding that toxic blades > master assassin? With new gold, mantle, belt, and CoF
torpid roost
This is with 2x MA + 1 x GW relics, and its the same if I replace the GW with a 3rd MA
viscid sonnet
boots might change it up a lot
torpid roost
pardon the pun, but the boots boostrap themselves right? More vendettas => more energy from urge to kill => more vendettas
atomic flame
This is my with 2xMA+1TB, with 4/4 MA, shoulders and boots
MA is ~= to TB for me for my third relic slot if they are the same ilvl relic
(also with new gold)
rich temple
@maiden cargo late answer but, are your current pants really bad? cause that can really skew results of sims like that
for example, my wrists are terrible, but i have 920 grovetenders (as assassination) so
i've simmed higher with zoldyck bracers than duskwalker boots
atomic flame
I feel like wrists are very close to boots atm anyway
Like with boots I only sim for 4k more
rich temple
they aren't too far off but
atomic flame
than shoulders+wrists
rich temple
boots should definitely sim higher
it's only cause of the difference in the gear i'm currently using in those slots
atomic flame
I've got 905 elisande wrists, and 890 grove tenders
so they are very close because my wrists are crit > mastery
rich temple
i've simmed with better wrists and the boots do much better
yeah exactly, if you had shit tier wrists like i do (they've got haste, ugh)
then you'd probably see the difference
atomic flame
This is my current gearing
I need a better ring, preferrably ring of minute mirrors
rich temple
ah man those gloves, jealous
rich temple
nice
i've got the same neck but, bro why you using trained soldier? does it really sim higher for you?
atomic flame
Yes
rich temple
looks like you should have enough master that satyr would be better
rich temple
yeah now i think i will too LOL
viscid sonnet
@rich temple more mastery usually means trained soldier gets better
atomic flame
Yeah, trained soldier still ahead for me ^^
rich temple
you'd think it'd have more evident diminishing returns
atomic flame
There is no DR on mastery
viscid sonnet
nah it gets better and better
atomic flame
It just keeps on getting better
atomic flame
Like we're VERY likely going to get our mastery nerfed
viscid sonnet
by quite a bit
rich temple
mine's only slightly ahead of agi
atomic flame
It's nice being able to drop some crit for vers
Like I said earlier, would like a vers/mastery ring
over a crit/mastery
It's also good that subterfuge is almost 10k ahead of nightstalker for me
cos fuck nightstalker lol
viscid sonnet
the use effect on the nibble ring is too good, otherwise i would run guldan ring / minute mirrors
that leaves me at 16% crit, 10% vers and 165% mastery
atomic flame
gul'dan ring needs to be at least 900 for it to be better for me
rich temple
also i'm with you on vers @atomic flame makes chrono's neck really strong
thank god for mantle
viscid sonnet
im not sure how to test it
but ive got the FEELING that mastery main vers secondary is the best for every slot
like no other stats required
atomic flame
feelycrafting
viscid sonnet
theres a way to plot this on a 3d pyramid thing
atomic flame
Because crit and vers are equal
rich temple
LOL go look up a bunch of master > vers gear and sim it
atomic flame
you NEED the same as both
You can't neglect one or the other
they are very balanced together
rich temple
crit has a more tangible effect on rotation though
atomic flame
It doesn't though
rich temple
just cause of that, i'd rather have crit to be honest
atomic flame
Because we don't go DS anymore
and we go Vigor
the crit is nowhere near as impactful
rich temple
okay...? but how often do you notice your extra 1% from vers
atomic flame
I can drop 1k crit, for 1k vers
rich temple
instead of noticing your muts crit more often?
i'm talking about actual rotation impact
atomic flame
Because you ONLY need 4cp minimum
You only use finisher at 4-5 cp, which means you don't have to crit
viscid sonnet
rotation impaact is overrated
atomic flame
With Nightstalker, crit is a bit more impactful
rich temple
i get it, my vers sims higher than crit too
atomic flame
But I have noticed absolutely zero issue dropping crit for vers
I had 3% vers this week
rich temple
but you'll never actually NOTICE a vers increase during your rotation
rich temple
i never said you did
but vers has no tangible impact on what you actually do
crit does
therefore in a perfect world where i could just choose which i could value more
atomic flame
You do the same whether or not you crit though?
2 muts
finisher
that's it 😛
If you're lucky, 1 mut and a finisher
atomic flame
You'd need pre 7.1 crit for that though
44% crit
for it to have a 50% chance of either mut hit critting
42% with 4.4
4/4*
rich temple
aha bro i'm not talking about seriously dropping all vers for crit
i'm just saying that if i could choose with 0 impact on DPS
i'd rather have crit for the better feel
atomic flame
I guess
If that's how you're comfortable playing
There is zero detriment
But it will get to a point where your vers will outweigh crit because you have so little of it
rich temple
yes, i'm aware, and my vers currently outweighs crit
hence why i'd never go all in on crit
atomic flame
Is it outweigh, or ~=?
rich temple
roughly equal
rich temple
they're pretty similar to that actually, but i have more haste i still need to drop
atomic flame
the only reason why it's like that though, is cos of the fat af 925 tich ring
otherwise I'd be waaaay behind
viscid sonnet
@atomic flame whats your ilvl
atomic flame
911
rich temple
sims at around 810k-ish? only 906 equip, with KJ+shoulders
i'd give actual data but i can't hop on to change my gearset right now
atomic flame
Yeah
Mastery scales the best ofc
Which is why you sim the same
I'm let down by wrists since they are crit > mastery
so I lose out a lot on those
rich temple
my gear isn't in a great spot right now either unfortunately
atomic flame
and my 885 ring only has 1.3k mastery
I need a ring of equivalent or higher with better mastery values
rich temple
haven't been able to get on and play enough to get that KB trait either, so that's gimping me hard
viscid sonnet
yeap
rich temple
how much did it boost your sim dps?
rich temple
still pretty damn solid
atomic flame
I started progressing star augur today
rich temple
envenom trait should be a nice little boost too
atomic flame
And over 31 wipes, I averaged 831k dps
I feel like that's quite good for a progression fight
rich temple
7.2 seems to have inflated numbers pretty hardcore
atomic flame
Especially for aff locks
rich temple
oh ikr?
i started pretty late in legion so
my artifact wasn't very high level pre 7.2
atomic flame
Catch up mechanics :))
rich temple
the jump to 7.2 gave me like 7% dps straight up from that first traight
atomic flame
It basically brings you into line with everyone pre-7.2
rich temple
pretty close yeah, though i'm behind again for now probably till i'm done exams
rich temple
i can still contribute to my guild's progression though so i'm not super concerned, and eventually AK will make the AP for these ranks trivial
still hyped for getting that damn KB trait though
atomic flame
It's good
Just gotta play smarter with Kingsbane usage
and when to hold for vendetta/when to hold vendetta for it
rich temple
i usually hold KB only if vendetta is up in ~10 sec
and hold vendetta if KB is up in ~15, but will use when KB has like 3-4 sec left on CD
atomic flame
Yes
6s on cd is fine
because 20-6=14
that's the biggest burst I managed today
cos of godly poison bombs
rich temple
yeah woops didn't mean to cut off markers
atomic flame
Remind me of my HC botanist
from the other day
The most disgusting botanist I ever done
rich temple
aha nice, i did a H botanist with a fairly low dps group... i was wondering why the hell i parsed so bad until i realized it was a 7min+ fight
atomic flame
rich temple
damnnn that's dirty
rich temple
i love how your burst windows were exactly outside of heroism too LOL
atomic flame
rich temple
nice
round canyon
check out this burst on a heroic star boy kill
https://gyazo.com/bff634544936e1adf0d929c2ee4f2b16
rich temple
i barely managed like 840 on my long ass fight, parsed terribly LOL
royal pendant
Can anyone tell me how I should be weighting agility when simming my character?
I know our primary stat is #1 but Im not sure I need to weight it to account for that when comparing pieces of gear
proud locust
is mastery scaling over agility for anybody by the sligtest bit?
atomic flame
Yes, by a lot
dark obsidian
@split sorrel is subt and NS simming correctly in the latest nightly? I dont understand how subt can sim higher than NS when the APL only gets 1 empowered garrote which is in the opener?
late willow
Not sure about the APL but I sim the same for NS vs Subt
nocturne niche
Is there any way to sim cinidaria more accurately (boss not losing health linearly, but rather, more quickly at 100->90%)
sterile jolt
The sims don't actually lose health linearly, not sure who started saying that.
@nocturne niche If you scroll to the bottom of the report, you can actually see the target's health on a graph. It puts the first 10% of a mobs health at 5% of the time.
dire rapids
Are the sims for frond trustworthy enough now or still a bit buggy?
nocturne niche
Thanks, River!
heavy moon
@dire rapids check pins
dire rapids
cheers
proud locust
when we use the aritfact talent calcalator for sim craft can we choose the il relics we have for it or does it not matter?
i choose the relics i have but i have higher ils of them
im asking if it matter when im trying to sim which trait should pick next
late willow
in the artifact calculator you do not need to choose the relics. The relics are done in Simc on a seprate line in your gear
split sorrel
if you specify a relic in the artifact string
it'll override the one in your gear
😉
viscid sonnet
@split sorrel is there a way to figure out the optimal distribution of stats given certain leggos and such
you had some old beautiful plot.ly diagrams
tried to google up how to do that but had no real luck, just found some old IRC logs
split sorrel
CombinX
you need to be able to use Python
or wait until I make it a webservice using raidbots
i.e. some weeks 😛
viscid sonnet
i know a little python, ill have a look! thanks 🤗
pure condor
@split sorrel dos isnt yet optimized for mantle right? (running with ns)
split sorrel
why isn't ?
pure condor
apl currently gives me the following opener
gar mut rupt vend kb dos
first env 5 sec after kb
pure condor
just mantle+insignia with frond+dos
although i just did another sim with everything the same and now its another (prob the correct) opener
pure condor
but what would trigger it to shift the opener around at the 4th cast?
since gar mut rupt should be all the time
why suddenly vend next instead of mut
maybe there are some energy shenanigans going on
because in the correct opener the first rupt (3rd cast overall) is cast at 109 energy while in the other opener (the wrong one) the first rupt is cast at 98.9 energy
so that vendetta gets triggered because the energy deficit it greather than 80 (60 +20)
proud locust
with legendary shoulders is it best to save vanosh after vendetta no matter what even if you have to hold it Or do we use it on cooldown?
also witht he talent suberturfuge im talking about
should i just use it on cooldown to get my bonous damage with garrote or save it for big burst windwo with vendetta
pure condor
@split sorrel ^
maiden cargo
@split sorrel Hey I just started using the addon you mention, beutiful work btw, Just wanted to know for the rotation is it best put use to hit the abilities as they come up or is it under the idea that we clip SoT procs?
split sorrel
it should show Pool when waiting for SoT
and if it shows env, go ahead
although, there are still some optimizations to do there
maiden cargo
Ah good to know, thanks :3
proud locust
what addon do you speak of
maiden cargo
Look in #tc-updates
worldly pewter
So according to this chart https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=410072229 am i correct in assuming that for subtelty, the ilvl value of the gutripper relic is worth 30 ilvls for someone with the legendary bracers?\
real egret
how come i sim only 570k when i easily hold over 700k with 903 eq?
split narwhal
Update Simulationcraft with the lastest nightly build
bronze dagger
!Aethys
modest ravine
fatebringer really fell off didn't it?
solemn plaza
Did Anticipation really take such a big hit in 7.2, or is Simulationcraft not entirely ready yet in terms of Anticipation+4 set? It's simming much lower than I would expect (20k difference)
I guess the Finality bug was quite strong, but 20k strong?
split sorrel
yes.
jolly venture
Is this even possible to do as much KB dmg as sim does? Even with new golden my % numbers are pretty much same, scrolling thru different people logs and dont see any difference either.
civic cradle
do you have the latest nightly
jolly venture
Ofc, also tried different openers and both NS and subt. It still sims KB>Rupt=Envenom dmg chart with like 1% dmg difference, when in reality KB does about half of it.
civic cradle
that's odd
my KB does almost as much as my rupture
on single target
are you looking at damage per cast or the damage distribution circle
jolly venture
Latter, I guess. Gonna do one more sim right now.
split narwhal
Yeah KB is our #1 damage per execute(cast)
jolly venture
Oh shit, I am dumb. Now it makes sense.
civic cradle
😅
ashen crater
Is there a way to simulate the extra procs you get on memento of angerboda when party members die? I'm trying to compare a 905 MoA to a 890 frond.
split sorrel
override the rppm
ashen crater
What's the syntax for that?
maiden cargo
ops
safe aspen
@ashen crater it also procs like twice the amount simc thinks, even with no deaths
according to my findings
round canyon
@safe aspen if thats true then memento is one of the best trinkets in the entire game
safe aspen
I agree
round canyon
are you sure your seeing a 45% uptime?
safe aspen
yep
ashen crater
I checked in two of my logs and had 24 and 31. Pretty small sample size but not double the simc value of 22.5
round canyon
i think your going to have to find some logs of this occuring withno deaths
because i find it unbelievable that it has a 45% uptime
round canyon
i dont own one anymore
safe aspen
I haven't used one since before 7.1.5
so I can't swear it's still true
but I checked the uptimes on it in simc around 7.1.5 and it was still half of what I was getting ingame
round canyon
considering i used one extensively for pretty much all of the expansion up until 7.1.5 i think your wrong
safe aspen
I did too
round canyon
ive never seen it come close to approaching such a high uptime without deaths