toxic crypt Apr 2, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

let me check it now

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

I think it's 1+2

split narwhal Apr 2, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

Yes that was the 4 minute vanish, on 2 minute it had no garrote

#

https://gyazo.com/35620873d4a926ab3f74c9833a78e514

Gyazo

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

but it's weird

toxic crypt Apr 2, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

thanks aethys so i would assume that Nightstalker is the go to option now?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

garrote recast during vanish

#

is worth only if you don't have to delay vanish

#

but

#

it depends on what garrote cd is

#

it's hard to optimize

split narwhal Apr 2, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

Okay

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:04 PM

#

you can play both

#

they are very close tbh

#

depends on ur skill

toxic crypt Apr 2, 2017, 1:04 PM

#

okay confirmed its 3 CP

#

you want me to stream for a while to check it

#

?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:04 PM

#

no I just checked it

#

but it's weird since

#

ok muti is MH + OH

#

but both generate CP

#

KBs generate CP on the MH strike only

#

that's why

#

but guess what

#

another bug

toxic crypt Apr 2, 2017, 1:05 PM

#

shhh 😛

#

it was like this from way before

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:06 PM

#

way before ?

#

maybe, I play Assa just since some days

#

it's probably here since 7.1

#

when they added CP to KB

toxic crypt Apr 2, 2017, 1:06 PM

#

when the shoulders was out i mean

#

yeh

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:06 PM

#

it works even without shoulders

split narwhal Apr 2, 2017, 1:07 PM

#

So how do we get 3CP from KB if it only crits with one Weapon

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:07 PM

#

it's just seal fate working on both hit

#

while only the first gives cp normally

toxic crypt Apr 2, 2017, 1:07 PM

#

ah i see

#

its 2 + 1

#

with mantle buff

split narwhal Apr 2, 2017, 1:08 PM

#

Oh i see

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:08 PM

#

no

#

it's 1 + 1 + 1

#

1 from KB

toxic crypt Apr 2, 2017, 1:08 PM

#

is it?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:08 PM

#

1 from Seal fate on MH

#

1 from Seal fate on OH

toxic crypt Apr 2, 2017, 1:08 PM

#

oh ok

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:09 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

😉

toxic crypt Apr 2, 2017, 1:10 PM

#

👍

split narwhal Apr 2, 2017, 1:12 PM

#

So aethys the Apl is currently using vanish as close to CD as possible Not worrying for Garrote CD?

#

As long as we have enough Energy

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:16 PM

#

mantle or not ?

#

actions.cds+=/vanish,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&equipped.mantle_of_the_master_assassin&(debuff.vendetta.up|target.time_to_die<10)&mantle_duration=0

#

this is with mantle

#

so it just sync with vendetta, doesn't matter what the state of garrote is

north parrot Apr 2, 2017, 1:18 PM

#

Should it sync with last 6 of KB?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 1:24 PM

#

not a gain according to simc

#

but

#

APL isn't perfect yet

#

just better

#

I'll need more time on the addon to see what it does on live

#

to see how I can improve it

#

@toxic crypt @split narwhal

1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH performs kingsbane (137)
1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH kingsbane hits Fluffy_Pillow for 0 nature damage (crit)
1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH gains 1.00 (1.00) combo_points from Seal Fate (2.00/5.00)
1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH performs kingsbane_mh (137)
1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH kingsbane_mh hits Fluffy_Pillow for 633567 nature damage (crit)
1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH schedules execute for potion_of_the_old_war
1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH gains 1.00 (1.00) combo_points from Seal Fate (3.00/5.00)
1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH performs kingsbane_oh (137)
1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH kingsbane_oh hits Fluffy_Pillow for 316783 nature damage (crit)
1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH consumes 35.0 energy for kingsbane (102)
1.006 Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH gains 1.00 (1.00) combo_points from kingsbane (4.00/5.00)```

#

😃

#

When you see something weird, just mention me and I'll take a look 😉

ember radish Apr 2, 2017, 1:37 PM

#

Is shoulders still bis for assa rogues?

rotund nest Apr 2, 2017, 1:54 PM

#

yes

#

with boots

crimson pawn Apr 2, 2017, 2:09 PM

#

but with the new golden trait bracers become better then boots, dont they?

wind lotus Apr 2, 2017, 2:22 PM

#

Funny: bracers/boots - new golden trait, between alacrity and ap the ST difference is only 20k dps for me (favouring ap of course). according to simc

dark obsidian Apr 2, 2017, 3:00 PM

#

@split sorrel Do you have any APL changes that arent in the nightly from last night? Can I just go to ur github page every day to get the most fresh/recent updates?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 3:02 PM

#

yes

#

I just updated it

#

aha

#

the github page isn't mine, it's the one from simc

dark obsidian Apr 2, 2017, 3:04 PM

#

but the updates u just did is on there?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 3:07 PM

#

I pushed it

#

there is the feed on simcminmax discord

#

if u want to see live update

dark obsidian Apr 2, 2017, 3:08 PM

#

ok, so it should be this one right?

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/legion-dev/profiles/Tier19M_NH/Rogue_Assassination_T19M_NH.simc

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

#

says updated 9mins ago

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 3:16 PM

#

y

radiant dust Apr 2, 2017, 3:31 PM

#

is it just me or amr didnt update for the shoulders nerf?

maiden cargo Apr 2, 2017, 3:49 PM

#

Hey ! Im curious with HIGH ILVL PROCS , Should I GET ARCWAY Boenus 3k mastery

4 set from nighthold for sin

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 3:58 PM

#

@split sorrel im not sure if youve fixed it already but using the latest nightly (not github) the apl casts the first vanish at 39s (without shoulders and running ns)

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:04 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

@pure condor

#

this is what I have

#

for no leggo profile with ns

#

gimme ur profile pls

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:05 PM

#

how`:D

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:07 PM

#

save the report

#

in html

#

and put it here

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:07 PM

#

how do i do that

#

nvm found

#

📎 results_html.html

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:10 PM

#

interesting

#

hmm

#

it's because it waits a rupture refresh

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:11 PM

#

in that log it actually doesnt really matter since it still casts vanish 3 times in 6 minutes

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:11 PM

#

maybe I should force the rupture override here

#

or just let envenom with 4pc

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:11 PM

#

but when i set it to 5 minutes the last vanish gets cast at 4:40 so it loses some duratiuon

strong path Apr 2, 2017, 4:13 PM

#

Is simc/pawn accurate now?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:14 PM

#

idk about pawn

#

simc is getting better yes.

strong path Apr 2, 2017, 4:14 PM

#

How would you suggest right now getting correct stat weight @split sorrel

#

Got gear upgrades

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:14 PM

#

aethys why isnt it doing garrote rupt mut mut vanish rupt ? since that was what the old apl was doing

strong path Apr 2, 2017, 4:14 PM

#

For*

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:14 PM

#

I don't use stat weight

#

I sim gear directly

#

stat weight isn't accurate at all

#

@pure condor I'm changing it right now

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:15 PM

#

kk thx alot

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:15 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

I force a rupture duration override if there is vendetta

#

which is the case on pull 😄

#

because it's more flexible than just time<x

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:16 PM

#

is that first mut worth it ?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:16 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

to make it last longer yes

#

since it's a 3cp+ one

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:17 PM

#

ye but when its 5 cp and you instantly vanish refresh is feels like a waste

#

feelycraft tho

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:17 PM

#

yes

#

that's why

#

you do a 3cp into a 5cp

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:17 PM

#

well garrote mut can be 5cp into 5cp

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:17 PM

#

yes

#

but my condition is >= 3

#

and 1cp rupture isn't worth

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:17 PM

#

@split sorrel in the APL for subterfuge, it doesnt reapply garrote after vanish?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:17 PM

#

can't predict the 2 or 4cp muti

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:17 PM

#

or did I read wrong

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:18 PM

#

it will in next update @strong quest

#

part of my optimization today

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:18 PM

#

okay

#

but mine still sims 6k higher

#

than NS

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:18 PM

#

have you tried 2>= ? when the opener garrote crits

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:18 PM

#

does that mean it would sim even higher u think?

north parrot Apr 2, 2017, 4:18 PM

#

Garrote can't crit for 2cp

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:19 PM

#

yea just remembered

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:19 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

north parrot Apr 2, 2017, 4:19 PM

#

lol

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:19 PM

#

this is opener for mantle with subter

#

@strong quest

#

@pure condor garrote cannot generate 2cp

#

@strong quest yes it'll probably sim even higher 😛

north parrot Apr 2, 2017, 4:20 PM

#

So now we're to garrote kb again, but it's right this time

#

Interesting

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:20 PM

#

it's with Sinister

#

ofc

#

the golden

#

without it's not the same opener

#

tbh APL is gonna be really good

#

just see the sample sequence

#

I'm trying to optimize all possible openers

#

(depending on talents & artifact traits)

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:21 PM

#

@split sorrel yeah i know, im simming 6k higher with subterfuge than with NS with shoulders and boots, and im curious of which one to go, but if u say it will sim even higher with new apl i guess its a no brainer

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:21 PM

#

NS was bugged in simc until some days ago

#

that's why

#

subterfuge is good after all 😄

#

remember, vanish is a 2min cd

#

so you empower a GCD each 2mins

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:22 PM

#

aethys just a minor thing but why isnt it using the gnawed thumb ring for dos? (or as soon as kingsbane has 12s left) ?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:22 PM

#

not the biggest deal ever

errant tinsel Apr 2, 2017, 4:22 PM

#

so its garrote into kingsbane now with the golden?

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:22 PM

#

@split sorrel still 6k 😃

#

@split sorrel also, it doesnt reaply garrote after first vanish

#

is that intented or not?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:24 PM

#

it'll @strong quest

#

in next update

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:24 PM

#

yeah i mean the first vanish

#

not the 2nd

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:24 PM

#

@pure condor gnawed thumb ring not really optimized

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:24 PM

#

idk if its optimal to refresh it

#

in the first vanish

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:24 PM

#

yes it is

#

on the 3rd gcd

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:25 PM

#

3rd?

#

i think im speaking about the 2nd

urban wasp Apr 2, 2017, 4:25 PM

#

he said 3rd gcd, not vanish

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:25 PM

#

is it intended to only use the pandemic for vanish rupture if first rupture wasnt 5cp ?

#

in opener

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:25 PM

#

📎 garrote_opener.png

#

so this is optiaml?

#

using garrote right after

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:25 PM

#

yes

#

it is

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:25 PM

#

kk

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:26 PM

#

garrote as 3rd gcd

#

since subter is 3s

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:26 PM

#

idk what that means

#

tbh

#

xD

#

im noob

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:26 PM

#

you vanish

#

you use 2 gcd

#

and the 3rd one

#

you garrote

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:26 PM

#

ah ok

#

so 1st gcd=evn, 2nc=muti

#

3rd garrote

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:27 PM

#

in ur screen y

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:27 PM

#

yy gotcha

#

also

#

lets say vanish is of cooldown

#

but garrote has 10 sec left

#

is it worth waiting+

#

?

#

i guess yeah

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:28 PM

#

you don't delay vanish for garrote

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:29 PM

#

aethys was your "yes it is" for my question or for bqts "this is optimal?" ?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:29 PM

#

and you can override your garrote if it got less than 10 or 11s

#

with subterfuge

#

no was for BQT

#

and yes it is

#

for you also

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:29 PM

#

kk

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:29 PM

#

duration is decided by your cast

#

not the rupture ongoing

#

let me show you :

#

RuptureThreshold = (4 + Player:ComboPoints() * 4) * 0.3;```

#

this is what I do in my addon to define Rupture Pandemic Threshold

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:30 PM

#

no i meant

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:30 PM

#

as you can see, it depends on your current CP

autumn jungle Apr 2, 2017, 4:30 PM

#

Now is that opener for shoulders/boots/dos?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:30 PM

#

not the one used for the ongoing rupture

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:30 PM

#

opener is gar mut rup mut mut rupt (for instance)

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:30 PM

#

@autumn jungle just do the simc one if you're unsure

#

with latest APL

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:30 PM

#

or it is gar mut vanish rup if you are already at 5 cp

#

with the apl

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:30 PM

#

always the first

autumn jungle Apr 2, 2017, 4:31 PM

#

Currently using old opener pre 7.2 with boots/bracers/dos/cof

#

Seems like I'm energy starved a lot even with pooling can only keep sot up for two envenoms

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:31 PM

#

but apl still also does gar mut vanish rupt

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:31 PM

#

yes

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:31 PM

#

if you already have 5 cp from gar mut

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:31 PM

#

that is true

#

I'll test both

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:32 PM

#

k

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:32 PM

#

well

#

looks like it's better to use vanish rupture

#

if you get 5cp early

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:33 PM

#

more cp effective i guess

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:33 PM

#

yup

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:33 PM

#

yeah u would suggest overriding garrote yes?

#

when vanishing

#

point is always beeing able to refresh garrote

#

when vanishing

#

cd is 15 sec

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:34 PM

#

if its worth prob gonna depend if you are gonna miss out on a cast because of holding it

#

in the longrun

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:34 PM

#

lets say my garrote has 10 sec cd

#

would u wait vanish

viscid sonnet Apr 2, 2017, 4:34 PM

#

no

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:35 PM

#

well why not? lets say its a fight where u vanish 1 time

#

i guess u want to maximaze the dmg from vanish

#

also what does vanish do with kb?

#

does it try to sync it

#

in simc

#

like cast it 6 secs before it ends

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 4:37 PM

#

no

#

you don't delay vanish

#

but you can override a garrote up to 10s

#

so in fact it's up to 13s at the moment you vanish

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:38 PM

#

garrote only has 15s cd so you might actually want to hold garrote for vanish and not the other way around

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:39 PM

#

@split sorrel 13s what?

#

@pure condor yeah that seems logical

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:40 PM

#

13s of garrote debuff left

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:41 PM

#

subt doenst decrease cd on garrote?

#

only empowers it right

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:41 PM

#

ye

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:42 PM

#

so if u vanisha and its 13 s left u can override it

#

but if u dont u can only if its 10sec left

#

y?

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:42 PM

#

if you dont vanish?

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:43 PM

#

no
you don't delay vanish
but you can override a garrote up to 10s
so in fact it's up to 13s at the moment you vanish

#

I did not understand this

#

100%

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:43 PM

#

you only rrefresh garrote when it has 10s uptime left

#

so you can vanish when its at 13 s since you will spend 2 gcds between vanish and garrote

#

so its vanish at 13, envenom at 12, muti at 11, gar at 10 for instance

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:46 PM

#

i get it

#

but

#

garrote has 18s duration and 15s cd

#

how can u override it?

#

if its at 10s

#

u still have 5sec cd

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:47 PM

#

ugh that actually makes sense lol

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:47 PM

#

yeah im curretnly testing at dummy

#

thats why all the silly questions

wind lotus Apr 2, 2017, 4:47 PM

#

pandemic.

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:47 PM

#

then its 23,4s duration so at 10s garrote still hast 1,6s cd

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:48 PM

#

y

#

8,4 sec

#

u can refresh

wind lotus Apr 2, 2017, 4:49 PM

#

not in the opener tho, when you vanish after first one

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:49 PM

#

with pandemic

#

opener is fine

#

im talking late fight

#

midfight

#

well whatver, no point to overcomplicate this

#

its obvious that its good to vanish garrote midfight

#

and you should if u can

stark moon Apr 2, 2017, 4:52 PM

#

vanish Gr over vanish rupture?

strong quest Apr 2, 2017, 4:52 PM

#

?

#

oh

#

depends

#

😃

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 4:54 PM

#

hes talking subt

rotund forum Apr 2, 2017, 5:18 PM

#

simc isnt updated for 7.2 yet, should we still be simming every peice of gear through it to be sure? its not simming the new traits and stuff im assuming but it should still be accurate right?

odd sedge Apr 2, 2017, 5:20 PM

#

is simc waiting just 8 secs for vanish with draught of souls? isnt it better to synch them? With mantle

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 5:29 PM

#

does someone know the enchant_id for trained soldier?

odd sedge Apr 2, 2017, 5:30 PM

#

wowhead

#

or you can put enchant=600mastery

regal agate Apr 2, 2017, 5:31 PM

#

you can just use trained_soldier instead of the id

#

enchant=name_of_enchant

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 5:34 PM

#

ah thx

dark inlet Apr 2, 2017, 5:39 PM

#

Just want to make sure I haven't overlooked it. @split sorrel You hadn't done outlaw T20 sims yet had u.

odd sedge Apr 2, 2017, 5:41 PM

#

there is only one condition for vendetta on latest apl?

#

I´m trying to understand what timers simc is using for spells, from what I see it doesnt calculate anything for vendetta? just on cd?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 5:58 PM

#

yes @odd sedge

#

was the most optimal one

#

but maybe you got more ideas

#

😄

#

@dark inlet no

#

but considering the 7.2.5 changes

#

you can forgot T20 tbh

odd sedge Apr 2, 2017, 6:00 PM

#

Not yet aethis, just got mantle (ofc it was my 10th)and trying to understand whats optimal atm

#

its also waiting 5 secs with KB if vendetta is up soon right?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 6:34 PM

#

depends if golden or not

#

you don' want to delay with golden

dark obsidian Apr 2, 2017, 6:36 PM

#

I sim 3k higher with the nightly instead of your github one aethys

#

the garrote into mut sims higher than garrote into kb

#

with golden

#

with subt

#

and shoulders + bracers

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 6:39 PM

#

interesting

#

wasn't the case for me

#

drop the profile

#

I'll check after raid

dark obsidian Apr 2, 2017, 6:40 PM

#

how?

#

but i only did 10k iterations so that might also be why

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 6:42 PM

#

save html, put it here

dark obsidian Apr 2, 2017, 6:43 PM

#

Do you want both of them or just 1?

#

📎 github_kiwirate_subt.html

#

Like this?

glad leaf Apr 2, 2017, 6:44 PM

#

Does anyone knwo which legendary is best after getting Sinister Circulation ? Bracers or Shoulders ? I asume Boots are still BIS, maybe even more so after the trait.

dark obsidian Apr 2, 2017, 6:44 PM

#

Not a question for the simulation channel I think Andruz, but I belive it is boots+shoulders

glad leaf Apr 2, 2017, 6:45 PM

#

I was unsure where to ask tbh, first time posting in this discord hehe, and I cant post on the theorycrafting channel so...

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 6:46 PM

#

yes, post both actor in same html @dark obsidian

#

or both report

dark obsidian Apr 2, 2017, 6:48 PM

#

📎 nightly_kiwirate_subt.html

#

📎 github_kiwirate_subt.html

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 6:48 PM

#

cool ty

dark obsidian Apr 2, 2017, 6:48 PM

#

dunno how to combine them, so ill just do like that

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 6:48 PM

#

it's bad to do that btw

#

not the same rng seed 😛

#

and since iterations is rather low

#

it changes the output

#

but I'll compare them properly after the raid

dark obsidian Apr 2, 2017, 6:49 PM

#

ah alright, I dont know how to sim 2 profiles at the same time when 1 of them has a custom APL

stoic raven Apr 2, 2017, 7:20 PM

#

how is the new golden for sin btw?

#

properly modeled in sims yet?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 8:09 PM

#

yes.

autumn jungle Apr 2, 2017, 9:43 PM

#

11131111 (NS/DS) Simming higher than 1133111 (NS/Vigor) f or anyone?

stiff agate Apr 2, 2017, 9:49 PM

#

3x MA Relics still the wayto go with CoF and Boots?

civic cradle Apr 2, 2017, 9:50 PM

#

#228879234540503040

novel lava Apr 2, 2017, 10:24 PM

#

if i'm simming 3 different profiles, with different talents and gear, and have different names for the "rogue" line for each, do i need the name=Base line in front of the gear?

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 10:37 PM

#

@split sorrel is there a reason that you already removed the "hold kb if vendetta comes up in 10s" line from the apl? or just in anticipation that people are gonna unlock the new golden trait anyways and then its cast on cd

#

because its still a 10k damage increase with my current gear profile

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 10:41 PM

#

show

#

me

late willow Apr 2, 2017, 10:42 PM

#

That sounds like something that would vary with your fight length

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 10:44 PM

#

thats default apl...kb every 72s or so

📎 results_html.html

late willow Apr 2, 2017, 10:44 PM

#

That doesn't sound right.

#

Kb cd is 45s

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 10:45 PM

#

6 min fight

#

that changed apl with kb every 48s

📎 results_html2.html

#

well i maybe wrote that wrong

#

"hold kb if vendetta comes up in 10s" should be "ONLY hold kb if vendetta comes up in 10s"

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 10:49 PM

#

yes u're right 😃

#

in fact it depends on MA

#

(and cof and boots)

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 10:51 PM

#

isnt that why the line existed? if you get good cof procs or have boots or whatever and vendetta cd is <=55 you hold kb and if youre unlucky or dont have boots its gonna cast kb without vendetta

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 10:52 PM

#

I thought the same tonight while playing with the addon

proven orbit Apr 2, 2017, 10:56 PM

#

did they already fix the infinite stacking bug thing?

#

or did it never hit live

pure condor Apr 2, 2017, 10:56 PM

#

both prob

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 11:11 PM

#

first I would say

willow pecan Apr 2, 2017, 11:13 PM

#

i heard that foci proc chance has changed on live. is there any change in sim too?

golden pewter Apr 2, 2017, 11:15 PM

#

do angerboda and foci have similar ppm?

split sorrel Apr 2, 2017, 11:46 PM

#

yes it's a big gain when you don't have CoF @pure condor

#

or can't hit the boss 😄

robust marten Apr 3, 2017, 12:12 AM

#

whats the command line for 600 mastery enchant

#

enchant=600mastery?

novel lava Apr 3, 2017, 12:14 AM

#

latest nightly still putting kingsbane at 30 second cd with agonizing, is that with the 0.5 second icd?

tribal scroll Apr 3, 2017, 12:16 AM

#

yes

stark moon Apr 3, 2017, 12:27 AM

#

Hrm think deadly poison > ag when we get KB trait?

#

Oh thought I ewas in simple questions

pulsar canyon Apr 3, 2017, 12:51 AM

#

Aethys, do u believe pb dmg sims correctly with ds?

hard hull Apr 3, 2017, 2:19 AM

#

is AP still the way to go w/ gold triat?

rigid monolith Apr 3, 2017, 3:04 AM

#

Sin Circ is so different to play around with.

austere python Apr 3, 2017, 5:13 AM

#

@hard hull yes it is

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 6:07 AM

#

why not @pulsar canyon ?

#

% chance scale with current cp

#

@novel lava yes

mellow elbow Apr 3, 2017, 6:57 AM

#

Nightblooming fond is still simming too high? I guess so if I get 4,5-5% dmg done in sims :I

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 6:58 AM

#

Thats an average over usually 10000 iterations

swift lynx Apr 3, 2017, 6:59 AM

#

do u people do like 1 boss with frond equipped and then come here complaining that it sims too high

#

like u have to have actually no brainpower

#

whatsoever

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 6:59 AM

#

one time my frond didnt proc on normal krosus during 1 minute fight, useless trinket?

mellow elbow Apr 3, 2017, 7:00 AM

#

I actually did whole nh clear 2 days ago

#

And it was way lower

#

But dank memes, I appreciate them

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 7:01 AM

#

one nh clear isnt statistically significant 😌

#

but yes, it can be very streaky

#

consider that it has 2k agility though

mellow elbow Apr 3, 2017, 7:02 AM

#

I was just worried, considering it was pretty bad before

#

Or people have been reporting it to be bad

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 7:02 AM

#

people say a lot of shit

mellow elbow Apr 3, 2017, 7:02 AM

#

Yeah, agility makes it so much better

#

Well, so I guess I'll just trust sims in this matter, if it doesn't "sim too high"

#

Math can't be wrong after all

#

Thank you for your input

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 7:04 AM

#

sorry for being rude but im sure someone comes on the discord every hour and asks the same question

mellow elbow Apr 3, 2017, 7:05 AM

#

Yeah, I'm here a couple of hours and I see those questions all the time

#

And I asked one myself

#

Also that site raidbots.com is literally just "sim online", right?

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 7:05 AM

#

yes, it uses the latest nightly builds, so its nice

mellow elbow Apr 3, 2017, 7:06 AM

#

Exactly so, especially now since everything's changing every day

warm lake Apr 3, 2017, 8:29 AM

#

Don't know where to put this but... 22% crit. 135% mastery. ST build. legendary boots. Ilevel 891 equipped. 880 frond. Only simming 450k DPS. Does this seem off or logical due to no tier pieces yet/no cof/no dos

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 8:41 AM

#

maybe a bit low if you have full traits (or atleast the 5 + 10)

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 9:32 AM

#

@mellow elbow and some day every hours 😄

mellow elbow Apr 3, 2017, 9:32 AM

#

Yeah, sadly 😄

dire lichen Apr 3, 2017, 9:35 AM

#

@split sorrel You did some changes yesterday that corrected the NS/SF numbers for assa?

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 9:36 AM

#

?

dire lichen Apr 3, 2017, 9:51 AM

#

well yesterday SF was still siming like 20k higher

#

now both are within 5k with NS ahead

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 9:56 AM

#

version ?

#

reports ?

#

can't help without informations

dire lichen Apr 3, 2017, 10:10 AM

#

wow build level 23826, git build 8cdf3fd

#

lemme share report

#

http://tom-engelhardt.com/~tom/simc/2017-04-01.html

#

http://tom-engelhardt.com/~tom/simc/2017-04-03.html

#

todays log is with NBF

shell depot Apr 3, 2017, 10:15 AM

#

so whats the go-to route for artifact traits now?

patent vector Apr 3, 2017, 10:20 AM

#

@dire lichen : my reports showing SF 1k ahead of NS.

dire lichen Apr 3, 2017, 10:21 AM

#

well, I mean that might be right. I was just curious b/c all weekend long people where reporting (incl. myself) that SF was like 5-20k higher than NS and the common opinion was that NS should be ahead

#

from my today's sim it seems reasonable

#

OK did another run on my notebook with yesterdays build (8885511dc), SF 806k NS 798k with exactly same sim profile

#

so I guess there were changes in todays build

#

(and again, that doesn't mean it's bad)

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 10:57 AM

#

yes

#

ns was patched some days ago

#

and I did change the APL to improve garrote subterfuge

#

also there might me somme little improvement for NS

#

but I'm not even sure it's worth

#

like when at 4 (or 5 if DS) cp

#

worth or not to mut vanish

#

instead of just vanish ?

dire lichen Apr 3, 2017, 11:03 AM

#

hm but still sims for today went down by ~75k that's what made me curious

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 11:05 AM

#

what build ?

#

[   ]    simc-720-01-win64-8cdf3fd.7z    2017-04-03 05:08    47M     ```

#

one of those ?

#

try those and do not use any APL, it'll auto generate the latest

dire lichen Apr 3, 2017, 11:06 AM

#

imcSetup-720-01-Win64.exe 2017-04-03 05:07 49M

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 11:06 AM

#

should be okay

#

run the sameprofile in ur previous simc version

#

and this one

dire lichen Apr 3, 2017, 11:09 AM

#

todays = 719/720k

#

yesterdays 806/798

#

today = git build 8cdf3fd

#

yesterday = 8885511dc

lunar trout Apr 3, 2017, 11:15 AM

#

Could you elaborate/clarify on this comment in the default APL? Thanks!

Sinister Circulation makes it worth to cast Kingsbane on CD, although you shouldn't cast it if you're [stealthed w/ Nighstalker and have Mantle & T19_4PC to Envenom].

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 11:19 AM

#

you shouldnt kingsbane out of vanish

#

even if it comes up just that second

#

like you should in any other situation

lunar trout Apr 3, 2017, 11:22 AM

#

"out of vanish"? As in, we shouldn't cast Kingsbane while under the effect of Mantle and save it until after?

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 11:23 AM

#

you shouldnt cast it out of stealth, you should still cast it during mantle

#

oyu dont want to NS empower kingsbane but envenom

#

is the point

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 11:25 AM

#

if you have mantle & t19

#

else kb seems better than rupture

#

rather, not worth to delay for the rupture

#

but I need to double test that

rustic abyss Apr 3, 2017, 11:26 AM

#

i noticed im simming a bit better with the trained soldier enchantment instead of satyr, so im curious if its a thing now. maybe after hitting a specific mastery value, soldier becomes better than satyr?

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 11:26 AM

#

yes @rustic abyss others have reported and use it

#

at high high mastery levels

lunar trout Apr 3, 2017, 11:27 AM

#

Surely we still want to cast it out of stealth given that it's a 2 minute CD on Vanish. To be clear then, what you're saying is that we don't cast KB after leaving stealth until after Envenom has benefited from NS, using it after that while still under the affect of Mantle.

rustic abyss Apr 3, 2017, 11:27 AM

#

thanks @viscid sonnet

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 11:28 AM

#

im not sure what you mean vercadium, youre supposed to use kingsbane the exact global it comes up in ALL cases EXCEPT if it comes up as soon as youre about to vanish, then you should vanish envenom kingsbane instead

lunar trout Apr 3, 2017, 11:29 AM

#

That makes sense! Perhaps it's just me, but both the comment and your previous explanation didn't read that way to me.

#

Thanks for explaining 🙂

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 11:29 AM

#

yeah, sorry :^P

lunar trout Apr 3, 2017, 11:31 AM

#

While we're on the subject I guess, presumably there's a threshold where it's better to use vs wait. At the moment I'd guess that would be <5 seconds before Vanish wait, otherwise blow it, but I have no data to know one way or the other.

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 11:32 AM

#

@lunar trout for kingsbane? I think aethys worked out that you should never wait with using it (with that one vanish NS exception)

lunar trout Apr 3, 2017, 11:33 AM

#

Yeah, I'm talking about that exception. Not sure what the wait/use point is in that case.

#

Like it would seem wrong to hold it for more than 5 seconds for vanish at a guess.

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 11:35 AM

#

@lunar trout if KB is up 5 secs before vanish, just use it immediately

#

yolo

lunar trout Apr 3, 2017, 11:36 AM

#

Aye, that's what I'm guessing, just wondering if it's still correct to blow KB before Vanish at, say, 4 seconds, 3 seconds? Just wondering if someone has done the maths 😂

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 11:42 AM

#

and to everyone here, just talk about #tc-research in #tc-research

#

gonna delete off topic messages

novel lava Apr 3, 2017, 12:16 PM

#

i ran sims for sin mantle/boots/bracers combinations with golden trait, 7 MA and 906ilvl if anybody is interested

#

https://gyazo.com/1b286e06f0519b76d123142e14933aa8

Gyazo

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 12:19 PM

#

can you run one with mantle + boots and 6 MA and 1 GW relic

#

rest same

novel lava Apr 3, 2017, 12:21 PM

#

just 1 more with 6ma 1gw mantle+boots?

#

can do that now

#

https://gyazo.com/65793082feb32a08b682c35e5adec25c

Gyazo

viscid sonnet Apr 3, 2017, 12:37 PM

#

alright, thanks interesting

#

guess ill hold on to my MA relics

cerulean junco Apr 3, 2017, 1:10 PM

#

is insignia that far behind, cause you never considering combinations with it

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:24 PM

#

@split sorrel i simmed using latest nightly with sinister trait, imported armory and the APL did 2 mutilate with mantle buff on opener

#

this was done using NS talent but it's the same as subter

📎 mutilate.jpg

distant marsh Apr 3, 2017, 1:26 PM

#

im sorry but what is APL?

civic cradle Apr 3, 2017, 1:26 PM

#

action priority list

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:26 PM

#

@lofty lily

#

yes an issue I have to fix

#

the builder at 4 cp

#

in fact it does it

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:27 PM

#

ok just thought i should let u know in case u didnt notice it

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:27 PM

#

I guess

#

for the envenom/rupture at 5cp

#

but I'm not even sure it's worth

#

at this point

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:27 PM

#

well the thing is it doesnt rupture after that

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:27 PM

#

because it's vanish evenom I guesss

#

mantle & 4pc ?

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:28 PM

#

yeah

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:28 PM

#

yes so vanish env

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:28 PM

#

but with subter it behaves the same

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:28 PM

#

but I don't think it's worth going to 5 cp when u're at 4 for that

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:28 PM

#

which vanish>env doesnt benefit

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:28 PM

#

do u have a report.html where it does that ?

#

with subter

#

with ns it's "intended" in the sense I didn't changed it yet

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:29 PM

#

at the opener same as NS. didnt look at the later part yet

#

i guess from looking at the next vanish it doesnt do that anymore

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:30 PM

#

would like to have the report

#

it's way better for me to understand what's going on compared to a screenshot

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:30 PM

#

how do i make the report?

#

lol

charred stone Apr 3, 2017, 1:35 PM

#

Bottom right, button sav!

novel lava Apr 3, 2017, 1:35 PM

#

@cerulean junco insignia was worse than the top 3 before and didn't get any better since the addition of gold trait and 7th MA, whereas the others do. Wrists improve the most with the new kingsbane damage making a larger percentage of our damage done be by bleeds and poisons, boots bring vendetta closer to lining up for every kingsbane meaning you get a larger percentage of your kingsbane under vendetta and mantle syncs easier with kingsbane as it's on a 30sec cd instead of 45 now so you don't have to hold your vanish for aslong. Insignia also has horrible stats, crit loses a lot of value with shoulders (which are still the strongest legendary) and haste sucks all the time. Insignia is competitive if you're fighting 2 targets permanently, but that almost never happens.

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:36 PM

#

oh. that save button is the report. ok then lol

#

📎 results_html.html

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:38 PM

#

yup, ty

pulsar canyon Apr 3, 2017, 1:39 PM

#

I am just asking about pb with ds cause our other rogue using this setup is getting constantly more than double pb dmg than me, which is not reflected on our sims. On our last guldan fight he got 54mil while I got 25 for example @split sorrel

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:39 PM

#

it's % chance per cp

#

chance

#

chance

#

chance

#

you can see it as a 2nd frond if you prefer

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:40 PM

#

btw aethys besides the 2 mutilates can we consider the rest of the opener is good to go?

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:40 PM

#

how many procs did he have ? @pulsar canyon

#

link me the logs and I'll explain to you what exactly are the differences

#

@lofty lily looks good tbh, probably something little thing here and here

#

but overall, it looks ok

lofty lily Apr 3, 2017, 1:41 PM

#

aight 👍

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:41 PM

#

I still have to double check the DoS ones

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:47 PM

#

Also have a question on openers, I'm simming using no mantle, DOS, and subterfuge. The opener seems to prioritize DOS usage above SOT clipping with ENV during the KB window. Don't have the screenshot but the opening rotation went like this:

Gar-Mut-Rup-Mut-Vend-Mut-Env-KB-Mut-Mut-Env-DOS-Mut-Vanish-Gar-Env

I was using the opener and noticed my KB stacks severely lacking on opening specifically. Seems that after the first env, it doesn't clip in preference of DOS going into the vanish gar. Depending on seal fate of the first mut for rupture duration, you may also have to reapply rupture after the vanish gar sacrificing another env. Does that seem normal?

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:48 PM

#

should be Env Gar in ur example

#

but I think I know why

#

garrote is higher than env

#

so 😒

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:48 PM

#

the vanish timing worked with the garrote timer, to pandemic the subterfuge garrote

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:49 PM

#

yes but you could have done vanish env garrote

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:49 PM

#

it was just the DOS early without shoulders that seemed out of plave

#

the chances of that 1 mut going to 4 cp is low though isn't it?

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:50 PM

#

hmm

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:50 PM

#

DOS-Vanish-Env-Gar

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:50 PM

#

do you have mantle or not ?

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:50 PM

#

no

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:50 PM

#

dos makes no diff then if it's before or after the vanish, no ?

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:50 PM

#

it looked very similar when I did NS too, opened the same way except did a vanish rupture

#

nope

#

just best to use during a pool window

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:50 PM

#

so what is worrying you ?

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:50 PM

#

the early DOS is causing SOT to drop during KB isn't it?

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:51 PM

#

if it did vanish env garrote, no

#

and in fact, it's more env buff that is important for KB than SoT (well, SoT is aswell, but in between 2 ticks it's env buff that is important)

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:51 PM

#

do you just hope for a SF proc then? odds of that 4cp mut seems low

#

yeah, the env buff lasts a tad longer which held

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

but I would have to see the whole report

odd sedge Apr 3, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

during KB its not sot thats important its envenom buff

#

and that is longer

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

because I'm not good enough to know all timers 😄

#

yes @odd sedge

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

OK. I'll see what I can get later when I'm home

odd sedge Apr 3, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

also envenom pandemics unlike sot

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

ideally you want SoT up on each tick (every 2s * 7)

#

and env buff pandemic

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

I just wanted to confirm but having that vanish-env-gar already seems better in my head

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

yup exactly @odd sedge

#

I think vanish env gar would have been better

#

but on your thing

#

considering no pooling, SoT still up when he env

#

after the vanish garrote

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:53 PM

#

that may be the time to pop arcane torrent as well incase of SF procs

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:53 PM

#

so diff is probably very small

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:54 PM

#

DOS-MUT-MUT-vanish-ENV would be rough in that small window

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 1:54 PM

#

depends on energy

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 1:54 PM

#

but i will play with it, thank you

pure condor Apr 3, 2017, 2:23 PM

#

@winter wraith prob gonna depend if you need the 2 mut before dos or if 1 is enough to get to 4cp. if 1 is enough sot shouldnt drop, if you need 2 then the mut after dos needs to be 4cp or sot is most likely gonna drop

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 2:23 PM

#

yeah, no guarantee to hit 4 cp with 1 mut

pure condor Apr 3, 2017, 2:24 PM

#

well the mut before dos just needs to be 3 cp to scrap 1 mut from the list you posted

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 2:25 PM

#

mut before dos?

pure condor Apr 3, 2017, 2:25 PM

#

Gar-Mut-Rup-Mut-Vend-Mut-Env-KB-Mut-Mut-Env-DOS-Mut-Vanish-Gar-Env

#

KB-Mut-Mut-Env-DOS

#

might just need 1 mut if the first gives 3 cp

winter wraith Apr 3, 2017, 2:26 PM

#

oh in that case yes, that's always up in the air depending how procs go

pure condor Apr 3, 2017, 2:27 PM

#

yea and then you should have enough energy to do dos mut mut vanish env

#

so you need to be unlucky twice to let sot fall off

glad lance Apr 3, 2017, 2:45 PM

#

Hello. AMR tells me to skip 4-piece in favour of one item with +30 ilvl and one with +5. Is that for real?? And when I sim it it comes out a bit lower than with 4-pieces... wierd.

neon jasper Apr 3, 2017, 2:47 PM

#

does amr even take set bonuses into consideration properly?

errant tinsel Apr 3, 2017, 2:48 PM

#

if its simming lower, its propably worse

#

trust the sims i would say

glad lance Apr 3, 2017, 2:49 PM

#

Ok thx

lunar trout Apr 3, 2017, 2:55 PM

#

Not saying it's better or worse, but run SimulationCraft instead and see if you get the same results, then return here. @glad lance

rustic abyss Apr 3, 2017, 2:55 PM

#

Does the apl consider delaying vanish for either dos+mantle or vendetta?

glad lance Apr 3, 2017, 3:00 PM

#

I run simcraft ahead and then I put those values into AMR. Isn't that the way to go if I wanna use both? @lunar trout

lunar trout Apr 3, 2017, 3:03 PM

#

Possibly, I haven't used AMR. I'm just saying that if you run a comparison on Simulationcraft and it confirms the result you found on AMR then it's probably correct. If it is different, then it points to a discrepancy.

glad lance Apr 3, 2017, 3:05 PM

#

Yes ofc. Well thanks for the advice I'll keep simin 😃

lunar trout Apr 3, 2017, 3:06 PM

#

If you don't usually use SimulationCraft, there's a web UI @ raidbots.com that might make it a bit quicker for you 🙂

#

Just make sure to set it to "nightly" mode to get the 7.2 changes.

glad lance Apr 3, 2017, 3:11 PM

#

Yes I've been using that too to solve this question but no luck so far. Will continue to compare the results and hopefully find an answer to my own question 😃

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 3:49 PM

#

@rustic abyss We've simulated delaying vanish for many scenarios and it was always a dps loss. It was a loss to wait for later portion of KB and to wait for Dos. You'd wait for vend but you shouldn't really need too as Vend should overlap. Same with KB anyway. CD are getting pretty short.

#

With 7/7MA CoF and Boots Vend should have a 40s cd and a 50% uptime.

rustic abyss Apr 3, 2017, 4:04 PM

#

thanks for the insight, @bleak sky . i thought there might be a rule like "wait if vendetta cd <= 10sec" or something similar

pure condor Apr 3, 2017, 4:05 PM

#

just noticed that wowprogress updated the version of simcraft they use 😃

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 4:05 PM

#

We are still testing. There might be. Found some evidence that you should not hold KB in some circumstances if you have 7/7MA + CoF + Boots. Was a 7.5k dps boost.

#

I sent it to Aethys to look over.

peak lynx Apr 3, 2017, 4:17 PM

#

Does that mean people with mantle should use dos on cd?

mossy loom Apr 3, 2017, 4:50 PM

#

Any reason subterfuge sims higher with default APL?

📎 subterfuge.html

#

📎 nightstalker.html

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 4:54 PM

#

issue is

#

CoF is random 😛

#

so when you have disconnect

#

hmm

#

hard to find a good thing

#

but I'll figure

#

and also I have some other things to improve the APL further

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 4:57 PM

#

@split sorrel Basically if Vendetta cd >=10s use KB

#

Vendetta CD<=6s use KB

#

Between those two points delay

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 4:58 PM

#

the condition I've put yesterday no ?

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 4:58 PM

#

Yes

#

With slight tweak. Changed 5.2 to 6s

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 4:59 PM

#

just have to add a 7/7 & cof & boots restriction for the on cd one

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 4:59 PM

#

Yes

stark sentinel Apr 3, 2017, 5:05 PM

#

i only get +34k with the 42 trait ? is that about right ? feels low 😦

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 5:05 PM

#

About what I got

stark sentinel Apr 3, 2017, 5:06 PM

#

hm kk

rose salmon Apr 3, 2017, 5:07 PM

#

@bleak sky Why not delaying when Vend CD under 6sec then?

#

🤔

sullen dagger Apr 3, 2017, 5:10 PM

#

where can one find the cast sequence for openers and whatnot in simc result?

#

can't seem to find that

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 5:17 PM

#

@split sorrel Hold on. Looks like even with 6/6MA you shouldn't use KB on cd.

#

📎 66ma.html

#

📎 KBoncd6MA.html

#

10k dps gain. Ah I had NS enabled. Hang on.

#

@rose salmon Most likely it causes you to delay usage of KB too much and you ultimately get less uses.

radiant dust Apr 3, 2017, 5:20 PM

#

has anyone tried simming deeper stratagem?

#

its seem higher for me right now

#

thats only until i take sinister circulation tho

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 5:20 PM

#

Additionally the important part of KB is towards the end which is what Vendetta will be effecting. It's not very important that Vend covers the beginning portion of KB.

radiant dust Apr 3, 2017, 5:20 PM

#

but even there sims about the same then vigor

rose salmon Apr 3, 2017, 5:27 PM

#

@bleak sky So basically you created like an average solution between losing KB uses & gain from Vend+KB?

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 5:27 PM

#

It's Aethys's solution. I was just modifying some conditions and number values.

#

But yes

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 5:27 PM

#

😛

#

I'll look at after raid prolly

#

or while eating

#

doing ap daily grind atm ^^

rose salmon Apr 3, 2017, 5:28 PM

#

bois pythagore should be proud of u 👌

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 5:29 PM

#

@split sorrel Yea. It was a dps gain to delay KB under certain conditions for both NS and SUBT with 6+/7MA +COF + Boots. Not just 7/7MA

rare trail Apr 3, 2017, 5:30 PM

#

http://www.wowdb.com/spells/238103-dreadblades-vigor?artifactRank=1 doesn`t work?

#

just got the trait

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 5:30 PM

#

kk but in reality it depends mostly on cof

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 5:31 PM

#

Yea that is true. It might work all the way down the rabbit hole. Since it is only delaying KB when Vend CD is less than 10 and greater than 6.

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 5:31 PM

#

yes it's gonna be okay

glass flame Apr 3, 2017, 5:39 PM

#

hello
guys
i need some help
i got no Assa legy no sub leggs
what specialization should i stay ?

vague olive Apr 3, 2017, 5:39 PM

#

this would be a better suited question for simple questions tab or general channel 😃

#

but as of right now, I would stay assassination

#

oh you spammed it in every channel

#

lmao

#

-.-

radiant dust Apr 3, 2017, 5:52 PM

#

93

#

ops wrong chat sorry

rare trail Apr 3, 2017, 6:04 PM

#

so what about dreadblades vigor?
http://puu.sh/v87f1/35e809cd35.png
http://puu.sh/v87gr/88928a8533.png

#

it calculates with it or not 🤔

vague olive Apr 3, 2017, 6:34 PM

#

You don't have vigor talent selected on any of those sims

#

But yes, simc will use vigor properly

#

That being said, vigor is still not the currently accepted meta, it's inferior

random bough Apr 3, 2017, 6:36 PM

#

I think he means the trait dreadblades figor

#

vigor*

tender ibex Apr 3, 2017, 6:36 PM

#

i guess i fucked up? the rogue guide for assass shows the 7.2 trait choices as http://roguedpsguide.com/content/images/2017/03/72APSin.png

#

but i just simmed mine on AMR and i get

#

📎 unknown.png

late willow Apr 3, 2017, 6:38 PM

#

Thats definitely wrong. More than likely the APL doesnt account for lower CD KB or They havent implemented that trait yet

tender ibex Apr 3, 2017, 6:38 PM

#

ya its putting the sprint one over the new golden

late willow Apr 3, 2017, 6:38 PM

#

yeah

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:39 PM

#

what is your character's realm? I'll take a look.

rare trail Apr 3, 2017, 6:41 PM

#

@vague olive i am about trait in dreadblades not talent

vague olive Apr 3, 2017, 6:43 PM

#

Oh yeah what about the trait

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 6:47 PM

#

No you didn't. AMR is wrong.

#

Did some quick sims with the golden on relic choice and traits to choose.

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:48 PM

#

I loaded ashkev's character, it looks like the AMR path vs the other path are within 1% of each other. The other patch is the higher one, so I'll see if we can drop the margin of error on that for you.

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 6:49 PM

#

4/4MA = 5.9k with 3/3MA relics
4/4TB = 5k with 3/3MA relics
4/4 GW = 3.5k with 3/3MA relics

871.9k = 3MA
869.1k = 2MA 1TB
864.3k = 2MA 1GW

2.7k dps per ilvl

#

@reef canyon Most likely the simulator isn't taking advantage of the golden properly. Golden was over a 30+k increase for me.

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:51 PM

#

i'm running another sim that should finish in 5 min. Then I can test that out. Sim with it, and sim without it, that should tell us if it is working

grave wharf Apr 3, 2017, 6:51 PM

#

There is no way that picking up all the utility traits in the main tree is "within 1%" of picking up the new golden trait, even if it is gated behind a utility trait of its own

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 6:51 PM

#

First thing to test is if everything is implemented correctly

#

then the APL

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:52 PM

#

Did the APL have a lot of changes after 7.2? (Not a rogue expert)

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 6:52 PM

#

kinda y

#

they changed a lot of stuff for assa

#

also bugfixes

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:52 PM

#

what are those? I'll check with swol on what he's done for that rotation after 7.2

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 6:53 PM

#

well, make a git diff with the APL from 1month and the one from today if you want to see

#

but I also changed some things in the core that was bugged

#

and also removed some other bugs

#

that no longer exists

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:53 PM

#

oh you mean simc's bugs?

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 6:53 PM

#

no

#

both

#

in game bugs & simc bugs

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:54 PM

#

oh, right, yeah. I was just looking at the stuff on AMR for now, since we were able to match our sims to logs pre7.2.

#

like, super super close.

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 6:54 PM

#

logs means nothing considering how rng the spec is

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:54 PM

#

So now with 7.2, I am going through that process again.

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 6:54 PM

#

but whatever, don't want a debate on that 😄

#

since AMR doesn't care about implementing things that is in <1%, when you miss several things in <1% it makes a big diff

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:55 PM

#

huh?

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 6:55 PM

#

leggos makes a big difference for rogues

#

and that's not the only thing

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:56 PM

#

@bleak sky Looks like the golden trait is accounting for 10k dps increase. I will do some digging and check int othat. Thanks.

#

We sim legendaries? Not sure what you mean sorry

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 6:57 PM

#

it's the guideline of AMR and Swol claims, not bothering with things that seems to be < 1%

#

but rogues have plenty of that

#

so when you chain them, it makes a big differences

#

whatever it is, artifact trait, ingame bug, legendaries, etc...

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 6:57 PM

#

@reef canyon The rotation changes with Shoulder leggo.

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 6:57 PM

#

Is that referring to the feral article, or that macrologia discussion? That is not what <1% means.

#

@bleak sky ahh, got it. Will ask swol about that really quickly.

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 6:58 PM

#

if you don't know what I mean, just check the latest thread about RtB that was opened by Swol on MMO-C.

#

You have to considers everything, and I "lost" a lot of time by tinking on things that are <1% because after all it makes a pretty big difference.

#

And yeah, it's something that has been discussed with Feral, Rogue has some sort of same mechanic. Anyway, we're going off topic 😃

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 7:00 PM

#

Hmm, not sure I know what you mean. When we compared AMR's pre7.2 apl to simc's, AMR's did more. I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 7:00 PM

#

because AMR is missing key things

#

either APL either Core

#

I don't check daily since that's not my job

#

and you never wanted to exchange on that so I don't lost my time on that

#

Rogues are filled by bugs or weird behavior, so it's not simple I agree

reef canyon Apr 3, 2017, 7:01 PM

#

I still don't follow. I never said I didn't want to work with you 😦

#

Anyway, we have been able to prove accuracy (pre 7.2). And now I'm on the lookout for post 7.2 stuff. Thanks for helping @bleak sky ! I haven't confirmed it's a bug yet or wrongly impelmented, but it does seem like that's likely the case.

#

And I'll double check on that shoulder legendary rotation with swol too

#

Also, btw. For those of you simming on AMR - use the krosus 'no miss' script I made special. Since krosus is bugged and dw's never miss, I made a special setup for that. http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/boss/4da5d4359478485796e1c6a751e77832?spec=DeathKnightUnholy&version=live&share=true

#

(oh, and the full krosus explanation is here http://blog.askmrrobot.com/krosus/)

grave wharf Apr 3, 2017, 7:10 PM

#

@split sorrel Echoing what @rare trail said up above, it looks like the Nightly might not be getting the benefit of "Dreadblade's Vigor" for Outlaw- getting a very minor/almost no increase with it , when I'd expect it to be more like a 2-3% total damage increase

#

based on how much damage gets packed into the Curse phases

solar swift Apr 3, 2017, 7:16 PM

#

hello guys,i got this trinket http://www.wowhead.com/item=142167/eye-of-command&bonus=1727 and today i looted this http://www.wowhead.com/item=137357/mark-of-dargrul&bonus=1726

Wowhead

Eye of Command

This blue trinket of item level 825 goes in the "Trinket" slot. It is looted from Viz'aduum the Watcher. In the Trinkets category. Always up to date.

Wowhead

Mark of Dargrul

This blue trinket of item level 825 goes in the "Trinket" slot. It is looted from Dargrul. In the Trinkets category. Added in World of Warcraft: Legion.

#

eye of command is mythic titanforged 1634 agility

#

and the mark is titanforged aswell 1203 critical with socket

#

which one is better?

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 7:18 PM

#

@grave wharf hmm, did I forgot to add it ? maybe 😄

#

I'll check after raid

grave wharf Apr 3, 2017, 7:19 PM

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/b9b789c3a939e295a8eaa4dfad0132bcf1612468/engine/class_modules/sc_rogue.cpp#L6598

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

#

I see this but don't know where the spell data comes from!

regal agate Apr 3, 2017, 7:19 PM

#

@solar swift this channel is related to simulationcraft related questions, this question is better fitting in #228879234540503040

solar swift Apr 3, 2017, 7:19 PM

#

ok,thank you for pointing out

regal agate Apr 3, 2017, 7:20 PM

#

you can use both trinkets in simcraft and evaluate on your output, it will show you its value in the given szenario

solar swift Apr 3, 2017, 7:21 PM

#

ty ty

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 7:50 PM

#

actions.build+=/mutilate,cycle_targets=1,if=(!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&dot.deadly_poison_dot.refreshable)&combo_points.deficit>=2|(talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&debuff.agonizing_poison.remains<debuff.agonizing_poison.duration*0.3)&combo_points.deficit>=2
actions.build+=/mutilate,if=energy.deficit<=25+variable.energy_targetbleed_regen|debuff.vendetta.up|dot.kingsbane.ticking|cooldown.vendetta.remains<=6|target.time_to_die<=6&combo_points.deficit>=2

#

c&p those lines over the existing mut lines

#

fixes the mutilate at 4cp problem

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 7:54 PM

#

but not fok

#

I've another solution for that

#

and for the moment I put the deficit at > 1

#

for yeah it's one of the issue

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 7:56 PM

#

I'll send you a paste bin. Is there anyway to highlight changes?

#

I've got some nightstalker improvments

split sorrel Apr 3, 2017, 7:56 PM

#

diffchecker

#

or make a .diff 😛

#

but I guess diffchecker will be easier for you to use

exotic canyon Apr 3, 2017, 8:32 PM

#

Are Master Assasin's shoulders stil BiS over Zoldyk after nerf to Subterfuge?

civic cradle Apr 3, 2017, 8:40 PM

#

@bleak sky grab a free version of araxis merge or beyond compare

#

@exotic canyon Yes and please use #228879234540503040 for questions like that

exotic canyon Apr 3, 2017, 8:43 PM

#

Doesnt seem simple to me haha

#

I dont know how to sim this difference, nor how to measure it

#

Ill go checkj s-q then

civic cradle Apr 3, 2017, 8:45 PM

#

it's quite simple

#

shoulders > bracers, it's been simmed a thousand times

#

even after the bug fix

exotic canyon Apr 3, 2017, 9:21 PM

#

Thanks Akai!

#

@civic cradle youd say NS got better than Sub with that change aswell then?

terse cypress Apr 3, 2017, 9:51 PM

#

!trinkets

stable zinc Apr 3, 2017, 9:55 PM

#

So I finally got CoF last night, right around the same time I got my 42 trait. Before swapping I simmed all combinations of boots/shoulders/wrists. Shockingly after the 42 trait wrists were coming out ahead of boots, even with CoF + 2MA relics, by about 13k. Anyone else tested this, I was pretty surprised, would love a second opinion.

#

I never would have thought the additional KB uptime in execute would push them past boots.

#

just realized this should prob go in theorycrafting, sorry

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 10:13 PM

#

I'm lazy so just link me your char so I can import it

#

and I'll play around

stable zinc Apr 3, 2017, 10:18 PM

#

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Venimos/simple

World of Warcraft

Venimos @ Zul'jin - Community - World of Warcraft

#

Relics in my bag are both 905 shadow/iron MA relics, CoF is 865 + socket

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 10:35 PM

#

Interesting

#

Basically comes down to the fact you don't have CoF equipped

#

But they simmed within 2-3k of each other

#

Huh. No it isn't CoF. Was actually better to use 885DoS and 890NBF over a 905 cof....

stable zinc Apr 3, 2017, 10:46 PM

#

Right... I didn't expect boots to fall behind, literally been sitting on them for 3 weeks waiting for a dang CoF to drop, and once it did, the new gold trait may not make it as strong.

#

My next question is, with adding 4/4 to other bleed/poison traits, could that potentially push bracers further ahead?

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 10:58 PM

#

No boots still won

#

Maybe it's your mastery.

stable zinc Apr 3, 2017, 11:02 PM

#

I mean, my mastery is at 152% unbuffed, I don't see how that could be an issue.

bleak sky Apr 3, 2017, 11:02 PM

#

Your import had it at 146

#

Let's move this to pm and keep the channel clear

modest ravine Apr 4, 2017, 2:48 AM

#

how much better is a finisher energy cost reduction relic vs rt damage increase relic?

neon crane Apr 4, 2017, 3:00 AM

#

weird lol will of valeera sims better than ravenholdt

proud locust Apr 4, 2017, 4:45 AM

#

how do i download api that sims shoulders and dos corettly

#

what do i download to make dos and legendary shoulders sim correctly

#

is what i meant

finite thunder Apr 4, 2017, 4:52 AM

#

the last nightly build already does that

#

its the default apl, you dont need to change it

proud locust Apr 4, 2017, 4:55 AM

#

i only need to download this one SimcSetup-720-01-Win64.exe right the 2 one down from the top

heavy moon Apr 4, 2017, 5:15 AM

#

yeah

mortal yew Apr 4, 2017, 5:32 AM

#

is the addon PAWN any good to help with gear for rogues?

finite thunder Apr 4, 2017, 5:58 AM

#

of course

#

just sim yourself to get your pawn value

#

pawn is just a multiplier addon

#

you need to use sim yourself to get your own weights

maiden cargo Apr 4, 2017, 7:44 AM

#

I am siming 744 dps w my 900 gs Outlaw Rogue (Greenskins and Cinidara) - my real output is nowhere near that.

What are your ST outputs compared to your sim dps?
is 744 dps good or bad? Is there a site where i can compare my results to other outlaw rogues?

📎 sim.PNG

viscid sonnet Apr 4, 2017, 7:47 AM

#

warcraftlogs.com

#

you can look at specific fights and filter by class and spec AND ilvl

dusty marlin Apr 4, 2017, 8:53 AM

#

Guessing its been asked and answered before, but how much dmg increase is sinister circulation in % roughly

tough dirge Apr 4, 2017, 9:34 AM

#

744 @900 ilvl should be an average estimate on patchwork with your legys. But it is very well possible that you don't reach those numbers regularly because A outlaw variation and B with 4pc and cof it gets increasingly difficult to perform perfect spell queuing. Add boss mechanics and you are problby looking at your dps.

tropic plinth Apr 4, 2017, 9:40 AM

#

outlaw has been oversimming the whole expansion as far as i can tell

#

but the only answer i've gotten from the simcraft guys is that "latency and player skill" are causing lower than sim values

#

while as the assa sim values are very much reachable

#

this is coming from someone who had multiple 100/99+ outlaw parses pre-7.1.5

split sorrel Apr 4, 2017, 9:43 AM

#

debate is, should we make the APL worst ?

tropic plinth Apr 4, 2017, 9:46 AM

#

just concerned some lazy blizzard employees might be glancing at sim values to say "outlaw is in a good spot, people are just bad at it"

#

but personally idc very much anymore cuz i switched to assa to be competitive

regal agate Apr 4, 2017, 9:46 AM

#

why do we want a worse apl?(sry for offtopic)

tropic plinth Apr 4, 2017, 9:47 AM

#

we want a more accurate apl, b/c there is no way 900k outlaw sim values on wowprogress are accurate

split sorrel Apr 4, 2017, 9:51 AM

#

wowprogress sims 🤔

civic cradle Apr 4, 2017, 10:09 AM

#

900k seems fine for outlaw if you're 910+ with shoulders / greenskins and itemized for versatility

haughty escarp Apr 4, 2017, 10:13 AM

#

What are the rules for kingsbane with the new golden trait? Haven't been keeping up on discord much lately

civic cradle Apr 4, 2017, 10:13 AM

#

#228879234540503040

muted rapids Apr 4, 2017, 10:39 AM

#

if i'm looking to sim my character for expected dps for FoK'ng at 4 combo points instead of doing an extra mutilate, do i just add |combo_points=4 to the end of the fan of knives builder string

#

or is that just so bad that you shouldn't ever fok for the 5th point 🤔

dusty marlin Apr 4, 2017, 11:19 AM

#

you will never have a good SoT uptime if u go for a 5cp env everytime and waste energy on fok and u will lose alot of dps

wispy jasper Apr 4, 2017, 11:37 AM

#

any sub guide with 7.2 traits ? (mostly how to use goremaw with last dragon trait )

#

and is simcraft 7.1.5 relevant since 7.2 is alive

viscid sonnet Apr 4, 2017, 11:47 AM

#

ask your first question in #228879234540503040 and to your second no, use 7.2 nightly builds

wispy jasper Apr 4, 2017, 11:47 AM

#

thanks

viscid sonnet Apr 4, 2017, 11:49 AM

#

aethys has done so much work lately that you kinda need to update simcraft every day for accurate results

#

or rather, before doing any sims

split sorrel Apr 4, 2017, 11:50 AM

#

and it's not finished yet, just slowed because not #weekend 😛

late willow Apr 4, 2017, 12:11 PM

#

Updated to last night's nightly. I think it may be holding vanish for too long. The current rule states that it has to have max combo points to cast vanish then envenom. Which is mostly true but if you don't get 5cp in the opener it just holds it in the Sims till upwards of 16s

#

Also I'm not too sure about that draught line because it casts draught with nearly 0 stacks of AP in the opener. I haven't tested it much but wouldn't holding draught for vanish in the opener always net you ~50% more damage without any downside?

split sorrel Apr 4, 2017, 12:16 PM

#

for the first part

#

yes I think I'll allow max cp - 1

#

for the second, yeah I need to improve DoS

#

tbh since I don't wear it I didn't spend much time on it, but it's in my todo list 😄

late willow Apr 4, 2017, 12:31 PM

#

Yeah max cp - 1 is what I think it should be. Last night I just hard coded a 4 in there and saw an increase

#

Yeah not having it makes it feel like less of an issue when fixing stuff

pulsar canyon Apr 4, 2017, 3:02 PM

#

@dusty marlin the thing he is trying to sim with fok might not be so easy to answer with the increased pb proc chance

#

I would actually like to see a sim with 4cp finishers vs 5 with a bit less sot uptime for the pb %

dark obsidian Apr 4, 2017, 3:23 PM

#

Is there any way to sim which trait is the best as the 43rd trait in assa? Like is MA still better than GW as 43rd if u dont have boots?

willow pecan Apr 4, 2017, 3:50 PM

#

yes, use wowhead artifact calculator to generate an artifact string with the traits you want, and copy it to:
artifact=

dark obsidian Apr 4, 2017, 3:57 PM

#

thanks!

bleak sky Apr 4, 2017, 4:16 PM

#

@split sorrel I tried allowing that and it simmed as a loss

#

maybe you'll get diff results

patent vector Apr 4, 2017, 4:18 PM

#

People always say to trust the sims. here is a situation : My combination Eye of Guam 875+ Nightblooming Frond 890 sims higher than Any combination with Convergence of fate. But CoF is supposed to be BIS right?

sullen dagger Apr 4, 2017, 4:19 PM

#

how many MA relics do you have? do you have boots?

heavy moon Apr 4, 2017, 4:19 PM

#

read the pinned message

patent vector Apr 4, 2017, 4:19 PM

#

3 MA relics, but no boots

#

(only mantle + bracers)

gleaming fern Apr 4, 2017, 5:14 PM

#

Is the Sinister Circulation inner-CD nerf already accounted for in the latest simc? Having issues with the simulated KB CD reduction vs the one I get on live.

late willow Apr 4, 2017, 5:25 PM

#

Yeah it is. I'm getting about 28 to 32 second kb on live. And sim is similar.

fervent inlet Apr 4, 2017, 8:12 PM

#

am i allowed to ask in this chat where the statweights on simcraft are shown on the results?

split narwhal Apr 4, 2017, 8:17 PM

#

Make sure to have Scaling turned on and it will Be under the subsection Results, Spec and Gear @fervent inlet

fervent inlet Apr 4, 2017, 8:18 PM

#

yeah thanks @split narwhal googled it actually and found a post somewhere saying the same 😃

vale spindle Apr 4, 2017, 8:26 PM

#

Hey guys, quick question, is there something wonky about Convergence of Fate's simming? Because I have a 900ilvl CoF that's simming 25k dps lower than my 880ilvl Bloodthirsty Instinct along with several other trinket combinations I have tried. Is this something wrong with the sims/how I'm simming or is it accurate?

📎 4pc.html

#

This is with the BTI

📎 4pc_BTI.html

#

I've also tried Ask Mr. Robot's sim and got similar results

sullen dagger Apr 4, 2017, 8:34 PM

#

you're asking in the wrong channel i think

#

but you don't have MA relics or boots, so CoF is not ideal

finite thunder Apr 4, 2017, 8:41 PM

#

@vale spindle 703-02? you are using a ancient version

#

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

#

just get the new nightly build if you want to sim youself, always update your stuff...

vale spindle Apr 4, 2017, 8:46 PM

#

@finite thunder thanks for the heads up fam

#

I hadn't realized my version was so out of date

finite thunder Apr 4, 2017, 8:47 PM

#

np 😄

#

that version is before NH , that why your second damage is arcanogolem

sharp tartan Apr 4, 2017, 8:52 PM

#

so I just got eye of command trinket 890+ and I have drought 905 and COF 895 what should I do?
should I use it or nah?

wicked ivy Apr 4, 2017, 9:07 PM

#

ANyone know if the new Sin gold trait is simming properly?

finite thunder Apr 4, 2017, 9:10 PM

#

@wicked ivy yes it is

wicked ivy Apr 4, 2017, 9:14 PM

#

wow ok. my stat wieghts are Mast > Agi > Vers now >.<

ivory widget Apr 4, 2017, 9:56 PM

#

not understanding why AMR is asking me to replace bracer/boots combo with bracer/belt legendary combo

split narwhal Apr 4, 2017, 10:00 PM

#

@ivory widget I would Test on Simc and see if you get the same result (assuming you won't though)

reef canyon Apr 4, 2017, 10:05 PM

#

@ivory widget IS that with a custom gearing strategy or a default one? If you haven't run a custom one yet, I have a quick tutorial. The custom one will sim every legendary and trinket and use those results in the gear optimizer. http://i.imgur.com/r2gpuBW.jpg

#

(AFK for about 30-45 min, so ping me or pm me if you have questions. Thought I'd drop that tutorial before I had to run tho!)

raven dune Apr 4, 2017, 11:50 PM

#

Is there a mastery cap for assasin rogues ? cause simcraft is telling me to go with crit gems

pure condor Apr 5, 2017, 12:05 AM

#

is it intended that the apl opens with kb ?

whole siren Apr 5, 2017, 12:26 AM

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so basically with simcraft, I just sim different gear/talent/relic setups and see which one outputs the highest dps, and then go with that setup? is that the idea?

sterile jolt Apr 5, 2017, 12:38 AM

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Pretty much.

robust marten Apr 5, 2017, 12:43 AM

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how is vanish being used with NS. on cd?

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not NS rather subterfuge

limpid finch Apr 5, 2017, 2:19 AM

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is the simulation craft 715-01 still viable

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coz theres no new one yet except some builds

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but idk if theyre legit

novel pier Apr 5, 2017, 2:26 AM

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@limpid finch .......http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

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all legit

limpid finch Apr 5, 2017, 2:27 AM

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thanks man

novel pier Apr 5, 2017, 2:27 AM

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np

fallen raptor Apr 5, 2017, 4:22 AM

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so is there not a 7.2 update for SimC yet?

paper matrix Apr 5, 2017, 4:41 AM

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Question. With mantle of master assassin I'm simming 20k DPS lower with subterfuge than nightstalker. Can anyone confirm that that is true now?

paper matrix Apr 5, 2017, 5:09 AM

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I just got shoulders tonight. Was part of the subterfuge change with them that it doesn't extend the duration anymore?

obsidian gate Apr 5, 2017, 5:16 AM

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20k lower sounds like a lot to me but yes, that is accurate

finite thunder Apr 5, 2017, 5:17 AM

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@fallen raptor its already live for a couple days

fallen raptor Apr 5, 2017, 5:18 AM

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I must be blind

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the program? not just the addon?

stark bolt Apr 5, 2017, 5:20 AM

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hey guys i just got the 42 trait for assa and simmed it. My stat rankings went from the usual agi>mast>crit~=vers to mast~=agi~=haste>crit>vers

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is that normal?

willow pecan Apr 5, 2017, 5:28 AM

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doesn't seem right, are you using latest build?

stark bolt Apr 5, 2017, 5:33 AM

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yeah im using the 7.2 one. The simmed dps went from 740k to 899k which already got me doubting it

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I didn't do anything different from my usual sims though so I'm not sure what's wrong

willow pecan Apr 5, 2017, 5:33 AM

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and are you using latest nightly?

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maybe they introdocued a bug

stark bolt Apr 5, 2017, 5:34 AM

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using the 720-01 one

willow pecan Apr 5, 2017, 5:34 AM

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try the latest nightly

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it might be you have a version before the nerf to golden trait

stark bolt Apr 5, 2017, 5:35 AM

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ahh i see i will try again

stark bolt Apr 5, 2017, 5:53 AM

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@willow pecan thanks for your help! simming 810k with stat weights that seem normal now

willow pecan Apr 5, 2017, 5:55 AM

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the reason you had so high, was because it was possible to make KB last until the next time you apply KB, which was kinda inifnite damage stacking sort of deal

viscid sonnet Apr 5, 2017, 6:08 AM

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@fallen raptor no offical release, but those are useless

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always download nightly builds

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theres a link on the main simc dl page, but here: http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

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the latest win64 exe is generally what you want

split sorrel Apr 5, 2017, 6:54 AM

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Yes, tbh until a patch is "stable", you should always use nightly

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During the next weeks, I'll continue to make a lot of changes to rogues, so be sure to always download at least the latest nightly. (Best would be you install VS and QT, and you build yourself 😉 )

round canyon Apr 5, 2017, 7:08 AM

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Is the new outlaw gold implemented in simc yet?

split sorrel Apr 5, 2017, 7:09 AM

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Yes

round canyon Apr 5, 2017, 7:10 AM

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thanks

viscid sonnet Apr 5, 2017, 7:38 AM

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@split sorrel was the from the shadows bug implemented in simc? might it change the subter/ns balance?

inland ledge Apr 5, 2017, 7:48 AM

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sorry @split sorrel for stupid question but I am a begginer in simc - when I try to simulate my char using last nightly I got every time error : "SimulationCraft encountered an error!
Option parsing error:
Unexpected parameter 'if'. Expected format: name=value"

split sorrel Apr 5, 2017, 7:48 AM

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@viscid sonnet not really but I think it's something from 7.2

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never heard before

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only from the shadows bug is the AP multiplier ignores

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@inland ledge delete the whole APL

boreal zenith Apr 5, 2017, 10:12 AM

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Hey, I am playing an assassin rogue (110 ilvl801) and simulationcraft says my statweights are: agi > crit > vers > mast > haste. Is this true or am I doing something wrong? Because I thought Mastery is the way to go and at the moment I got only 65%. (I am using the newest vers. of simc.) Thanks

mellow elbow Apr 5, 2017, 10:18 AM

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You are low ilvl, mastery starts to shine in nh gear, when you have a fuckload of it to make AP really strong

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And even worth it in general

boreal zenith Apr 5, 2017, 10:19 AM

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ah okay, thats good to know. Thanks

unique reef Apr 5, 2017, 10:55 AM

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Hello. Is it normal that my SUB rogue has stat weights like this? Agility=14.38, CritRating=5.36, HasteRating=6.86, MasteryRating=9.03, Versatility=9.77 so its Agi>Versa>mastery>haste>crit... Im 869 with Legendary shoulders + my stats are: Crit 24%, Haste 8%, Versa 6% mastery 85%. Thanks

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Also, it´s for light movement

proud locust Apr 5, 2017, 11:02 AM

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how do i properly use vanish in my rotation with the talent subterfuge and legendary shoulders as assa i really cant find the answer to this

normal slate Apr 5, 2017, 11:06 AM

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Hmm, where can i see what trait each of these numbers is? "artifact=17:0:0:0:0:851:1s:852:3:853:3:854:3:855:3:856:3:857:3:858:3:859:3:860:3:861:1:862:1:863:1:864:1:865:1:866:1:1349:1:1386:1:1585:4:1586:1:1587:1:1653:1"

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Would like to sim myself with all traits that can go to 4, at 4.

viscid sonnet Apr 5, 2017, 12:38 PM

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@normal slate easiest is to use the artifact calculator on wowhead, theres a link button that can give you a Simcraft string

solemn plaza Apr 5, 2017, 2:11 PM

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Hey guys, I did some simming after being out for a while and I got this in return:

It says 860 EoC (socket) > 875 Elemental Foci > 885 Draught of Souls

Any chance any of these trinkets are under/oversimming, or should I ditch my DoS now? (25 ilvls seems quite steep)

buoyant pendant Apr 5, 2017, 2:19 PM

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Are you using the nightly build?

solemn plaza Apr 5, 2017, 2:30 PM

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Yes, I added the BTI I had as well this time and this is what I got (I downloaded a nightly yesterday)

📎 unknown.png

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I'm more than wanting to ditch DoS really but just don't want to be shooting myself in the foot 😄

normal slate Apr 5, 2017, 2:48 PM

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@viscid sonnet Thank you!

hard hull Apr 5, 2017, 2:54 PM

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Does the APL for gold trait spam kingsbane on cd ? Or does it hold for vendetta if it's within 5s

pulsar kraken Apr 5, 2017, 4:17 PM

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wtf is the APL using as opener

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its so weird

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it opens with KB?

robust marten Apr 5, 2017, 4:29 PM

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can any1 check if Sub is simming higher than NS for them aswell without shoulders. using latest nightly.

weary parcel Apr 5, 2017, 4:29 PM

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it was simming very slightly higher for me last time i checked

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within 1k

robust marten Apr 5, 2017, 4:31 PM

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im still seeing people using NS in warcraftlogs. wanna make sure im not running subter thinking i should be getting higher dps.

weary parcel Apr 5, 2017, 4:34 PM

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just see what sims best for you tho

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but keep in mind playstyle plays a role too

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if you play NS better than Subt, ofc NS is gonna be better

robust marten Apr 5, 2017, 4:36 PM

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yea i dont know how to play subt and i cant find anybody else doing it so not really sure where to look for opener/vanish usage. if its a dmg upgrade i want to learn how to use it

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also somebody in the guild forgot to log our heroic clear so i cant compare krosus/trill

cunning pebble Apr 5, 2017, 5:29 PM

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subterfuge is a major gain over nightstalker as of last night's sims

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for me

proven orbit Apr 5, 2017, 5:36 PM

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what changed about subterfuge?

cunning pebble Apr 5, 2017, 5:56 PM

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well, of course the new garrote traits

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i wasn't expecting that to be enough to tip the balance or create as wide of a performance gap as simc is indicating 🤷

thorny fog Apr 5, 2017, 6:08 PM

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does anyone know if bloodstained hankerchief is simming right? it does 2-3% of my dmg on bosses but on sims it's only like 1% or 0.7

fallen raptor Apr 5, 2017, 6:09 PM

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my sim was at 610k with the 715 one and now with the nightly 7.2 it's at 752k, wtf?

robust marten Apr 5, 2017, 6:29 PM

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are u still running NS @cunning pebble or have you switched over to sub

cunning pebble Apr 5, 2017, 6:30 PM

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subterfuge, because simulated and actual results are measurably better