#tc-research | Ravenholdt | Page 17

strong willow Mar 8, 2017, 11:06 PM

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i can link my apl if that helps

split sorrel Mar 8, 2017, 11:14 PM

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use default apl

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or remove it, it'll auto generate

strong willow Mar 8, 2017, 11:16 PM

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i have shoulders so i have to use the one in the pinned post

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unless the opener is being correctly moddled in simcraft now

split sorrel Mar 8, 2017, 11:16 PM

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oh no, not yet

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had to fix some others things on sub 😄

strong willow Mar 8, 2017, 11:17 PM

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no problem, i'm sure this wont mess up my pawn string too much lol

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ty

split sorrel Mar 8, 2017, 11:20 PM

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pretty sure it'll

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😄

maiden cargo Mar 8, 2017, 11:24 PM

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why am i simming better with 3 vendetta than 2 vendetta and 1 gushing wound? :/

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no boots but CoF

bleak sky Mar 8, 2017, 11:29 PM

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same ilvl?

maiden cargo Mar 8, 2017, 11:29 PM

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gushing is actually +5

maiden cargo Mar 9, 2017, 12:22 AM

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@split sorrel what sub changes o.o

sonic sentinel Mar 9, 2017, 1:42 AM

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hey guys what rotation do u use on assa with legendary shoulders?

graceful drift Mar 9, 2017, 4:20 AM

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Where and how do you put the "use_item" in simc for DoS?

rocky iris Mar 9, 2017, 6:08 AM

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is there a special apl for just dos?

novel spoke Mar 9, 2017, 6:16 AM

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anyone have the Leg Boots simcraft id so i can sim my character with them?

rocky iris Mar 9, 2017, 6:25 AM

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look the item up on wowhead and click links

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there's a copy/paste for simcraft

split sorrel Mar 9, 2017, 8:22 AM

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@maiden cargo APL improvements

maiden cargo Mar 9, 2017, 3:55 PM

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@split sorrel ah thanks i was kinda hyped for hotfixes aka buffs xD

split sorrel Mar 9, 2017, 3:57 PM

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lol

dusk raptor Mar 9, 2017, 4:30 PM

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@split sorrel have the nightly been updated for sub? And is your add on updated for DS?

stone sandal Mar 9, 2017, 4:33 PM

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Profile Agi AP Crit Haste Mastery Vers Wdps WOHdps wowhead
Deadrackspam-ap 11.57 10.94 5.94 3.04 7.42 5.66 6.06 3.17 wowhead
Deadrackspam-vigor 11.78 11.18 6.00 3.71 7.30 5.63 5.07 2.60 wowhead

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is it weird that haste sims higher with vigor?

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This is the version i'm using. i don't know how to get build number with github
On branch legion-dev
Your branch is up-to-date with 'origin/legion-dev'.

blazing flame Mar 9, 2017, 4:52 PM

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Seems logic, less overcap energy/more regen with vigor so haste sims higher no ?

untold needle Mar 9, 2017, 5:36 PM

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where do you fit DoS into opener with Mantle?

split sorrel Mar 9, 2017, 5:56 PM

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assa or sub ?

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@untold needle

tiny lodge Mar 9, 2017, 8:17 PM

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Why does simcraft use shadow dance prepull with shoulder legendaries?

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Im trying it ingame and it just pulls you out of stealth without extending anything

split sorrel Mar 9, 2017, 8:25 PM

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drop stealth, use shd, pop stealth

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welcome to #extended_stealth

tiny lodge Mar 9, 2017, 8:27 PM

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Oh I see now

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Tysm 😄

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I was trying to do it with a sprint in the beginning and clipping the vanish buff

split sorrel Mar 9, 2017, 8:31 PM

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no need to

hallow valve Mar 9, 2017, 8:44 PM

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Aethys does the default APL in simc work if I got only got KJWB?

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 2:00 AM

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could someone please suggest changes to APL to get max garrote usage under subterfuge in multi-target fight

crimson pawn Mar 10, 2017, 5:25 AM

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hey, i recently got the legendary shoulders i and simcrafted my assa rogue with those. i took subterfurge and noticed in the sample sequence table that simcrafts opener is complete horseshit. the very first action in combat is using vanish and then starting the opener. anyone with the same problem and know how to fix it?

tribal scroll Mar 10, 2017, 5:32 AM

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yes, the apl is highly outdated

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here's a better one

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Synep's Mantle APL (No DoS): http://pastebin.com/DNrMBeiJ

Pastebin

# This default action priority list is automatically created bas...

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theres also weaks pin

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http://pastebin.com/3ZstJgjD

Pastebin

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions onl...

crimson pawn Mar 10, 2017, 5:36 AM

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thanks alot! 😃

bright gorge Mar 10, 2017, 5:43 AM

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Not able to sim and just got my 4 set for sin, bout 15 lols lower should I just stay with the 2 pic?

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My mastery drops from 140 to 127 if I do the 4 pc

finite lodge Mar 10, 2017, 5:50 AM

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A minor issue, but when I queue up multiple sims, all the results tabs that were in the queue will all be named the same as the last simulate tab put in the queue. Can this be fixed somehow?

eager iris Mar 10, 2017, 6:45 AM

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@finite lodge It still has the right info IN the tab though. Race / class / spec etc ... Just the name is off.

finite lodge Mar 10, 2017, 6:46 AM

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Yeah, I know that, but I'd rather not have to sift through the equipment to see which tab is which

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 8:55 AM

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@finite lodge go ahead and open an issue for it on simc's github page, so they are aware of the problem--afterall, it may be minor to you but not so minor to someone else 😃

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@tribal scroll weaks' APL doesn't even 'fan of knives' for multi-target and Synep's mantle never calls vanish nor vendetta with my gear--am i missing something?

tribal scroll Mar 10, 2017, 9:09 AM

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weaks apl is for st only i believe

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@torn dome could use some confirmation

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also these lines should cover vend and vanish

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actions.cds+=/vendetta,if=talent.exsanguinate.enabled&(!artifact.urge_to_kill.enabled|(!talent.vigor.enabled&energy.deficit>=75)|(talent.vigor.enabled&energy.deficit>=135))
actions.cds+=/vendetta,if=!talent.exsanguinate.enabled&!cooldown.vanish.remains<20&(!artifact.urge_to_kill.enabled|(!talent.vigor.enabled&energy.deficit>=85)|(talent.vigor.enabled&energy.deficit>=135))
actions.cds+=/vendetta,if=!talent.exsanguinate.enabled&cooldown.vanish.remains<1.5&(!artifact.urge_to_kill.enabled|(!talent.vigor.enabled&energy.deficit>=85)|(talent.vigor.enabled&energy.deficit>=135))
actions.cds+=/vanish,if=talent.nightstalker.enabled&combo_points>=cp_max_spend&((talent.exsanguinate.enabled&cooldown.exsanguinate.remains<1&(dot.rupture.ticking|time>10))|(!talent.exsanguinate.enabled&dot.rupture.refreshable))
actions.cds+=/vanish,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&debuff.vendetta.up&equipped.144236&!buff.master_assassins_initiative_aura.up
actions.cds+=/vanish,if=talent.shadow_focus.enabled&energy.time_to_max>=2&combo_points.deficit>=4
actions.cds+=/exsanguinate,if=prev_gcd.1.rupture&dot.rupture.remains>4+4*cp_max_spend

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 9:16 AM

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i've got subterfuge enable and have no idea what item 144236 is; also have !exsanguinate, but vigor, and artifact.urge_to_kill---still no joy on vanish nor vendetta, regardless of 715-01 or 715-02 simc

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i'll try stripping out the 'equipped' piece

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still no vanish nor vendetta--i'll try stripping out the debuff.vendetta.up piece

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now have vanishes and supposedly a vendetta, though i can't find it it the action list--still even with vanish, garrote usage is no where near maxed on separate targets

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 9:43 AM

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Ye that apl was only to see diff between ns and sub a month back

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Aethys apl is out soontm but I do have a proper apl of my own working rn

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 9:45 AM

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SoonTM 😄

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Well tbh, it would have been out since weeks if only people would have a constructive discussion with me about it.

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Or just a constructive discussion about it, not necessarily with me. If we put our efforts together it's quickly done.

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I guess a place where everything is put together would be something good. Something that will likely happen for the 7.2 then.

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 9:47 AM

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Wanna discuss now that Im actually back playing the game again aswell 😛

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 9:48 AM

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i'm open for a discussion, constructive preferred 😃

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 9:49 AM

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It's not as easy as you may think to maintain a module for 3 specs (along with all the bugs, I mean Blizzard Features) + finding the proper APL for each possible "combination" (like specifics effect that change the rotation, completely or just a part) + doing side projects (simc tools, addons, ..) ^^
I'm not paid for this, so I do it when I want to / have time to

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And yes, Subtlety is ahead (in terms of "implementation of things") because i play it several hours a day. Althought, I try to play more Assa (my alt is Assassination only and sometimes I play it on my main).

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 9:51 AM

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Yes I know. And I also know it does take some time to fiddle with apl. But if you want my opinion/help on it just hmu anytime

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I did tweak the one linked over simcminmax a bit myself

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 9:51 AM

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If there were a place where all the APL discussion was united, I would just have to help for some parts.

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Atm it's even more harder because there are some APLs here and here, so I have to deconstruct them to reconstruct one.

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@torn dome the one fiery sent ?

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 9:53 AM

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might i suggest--merely, suggest--an actions.openers section?

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 9:54 AM

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no

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 9:54 AM

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good to know

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 9:54 AM

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well, I'm fairly against openers sub action list because most of the time it doesn't work well

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 9:54 AM

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@split sorrel I did have a constructive conversation about it with you and wEak, but I didn't check the syntax for SimC API TBH, but I can type pseudocode if you want or even start with Simc API and fetch the code etc. On the other hand you told me that you are working on it like 3 weeks ago 😄 and sims are the same.

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 9:55 AM

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yes ik @crystal belfry but APL are popping here and here

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atm I got :
http://pastebin.com/K95jerQV
http://pastebin.com/DNrMBeiJ
http://pastebin.com/3ZstJgjD

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 9:55 AM

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Im not sure, I just remember seeing it over at simcminmax 2 weeks ago I wanna say

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 9:55 AM

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and there are probably more I didn't have opened in my tabs today

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 9:56 AM

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Am not sure about the APL syntax, I need to check the classes and stuff I mean the main API so I can easy generate any APL.

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 9:59 AM

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crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 10:00 AM

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I can add one more thing. on this thread https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues/3582 Thernn explains in details why Garrot has advantage over Evn on opner, and he did a good way explainig it, which contradict with my way in the opner which is delay garrot by 1 sec at opner and use one Env over garrot.

GitHub

APL is not optimal for Sin MotMA playstyle · Issue #3582 · simul...

The Simc APL for the MotMA playstyle is not optimal. Significant confusion exists over openers along with the best way to synergize Vendetta, Kingsbane & Vanish. Proper utilization of garrote with ...

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But in his formula he didn't add the mastery dmg increase in Env.

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As well as ingnoring PB procs and 4 set dmg.

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 10:01 AM

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It's something that SimC does, there is no need for napkin math for this, once set it takes 2seconds to test it

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Although, my issue with most things people post is they base their thoughts on one log

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or maybe two

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:02 AM

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Well subter garrote cast damage > envenom

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 10:02 AM

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one top rank doesn't mean it's the best way to do

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often there are good practice, but it doesn't mean it's perfect

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:02 AM

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Ye, but for example my first garrote deals over 3M damage

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 10:02 AM

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@torn dome we will see 😄

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:02 AM

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It is way more than envenom

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 10:02 AM

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gear need to be taken in account, fight setup, raid comp, rng, etc...

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 10:03 AM

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If you renew the garrot after vanish u already overlap with 3 sec at least... but we will see anyways.

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:04 AM

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I dont

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I refresh it at exactly pandemic

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 10:04 AM

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You refresh it after 8 sec, I belive.

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from 1st cast.

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wich is overlaping.

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:05 AM

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http://i.imgur.com/Ku5a3hk.png

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My first apl draft was over a month ago, when I had to go for a break

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3.16M damage from first garrote

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Second garrote 2.8M

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 10:07 AM

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I will go for quick smoke and back to discuss this.

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 10:09 AM

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damn, weak, this is ST? could you please find a 3+ target situation for me?

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:10 AM

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There are no 3 target situations in a raid currently

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3 targets that would live long enough for your cleave to mean something

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 10:11 AM

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ok. was gonna say 'not even on trash' but you just explained that

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:11 AM

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Ye trash dps is just trash dps

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 10:12 AM

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well, as someone who 'sucks at raiding' trash dps is where i can pick up some dps

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which is why i want to actually cycle targets with garrote

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 10:18 AM

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@torn dome So you w8 4 sec out of the 100% crit and the ring wont last for the last 2 ticks of KB which is the higest 2 ticks and losing like 2 ticks of KB out crit buff "but they are the lowest anyways", and I see you waited for 4 sec just to get the max garrot duration. On other hand you can cast 1 more Env and gain 99% ticks of KB in crit buff.

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And please always put in consideration that Env has a PB proc which it has significant dps increase in opner and overall dps anyways.

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:19 AM

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pb is rppm so its meaningless

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 10:20 AM

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You are not using DOS right?

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:20 AM

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and ring was macrod to ven cause I dont care about parsing on farm

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Not on this pull

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 10:21 AM

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And if you have DOS when to use it, which is really important to use it on the right time.

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:21 AM

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after my 5cp env in mantle

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 10:23 AM

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waiting with baited breath

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 10:25 AM

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So this will be after your Mut>Garrot?

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Mut>Garrot>ENV>DOS?

torn dome Mar 10, 2017, 10:31 AM

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/k9jc81H6RvnQthCz/#view=timeline&type=casts&fight=1&source=6

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just insert ring 2 sec after kb and thats where Id use it

crystal belfry Mar 10, 2017, 10:42 AM

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But delaying the trinket like that, you are losing alot of AP procs at start wich will increase the KB dmg alot. and might lose 1 use of the trinket per fight. Anyways sims will show all.

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I have to go now will be back after 30 min.

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 10:44 AM

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let's just be clear, ring=?

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 10:44 AM

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T20 APL gonna be fun

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with the new CDR trait on KB

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depending on if u play AP or not

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depending on ur Env casts

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#wtbEasyAPL

lavish fractal Mar 10, 2017, 11:18 AM

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hold on, stealth from 1.029 to 16.927--how is that happening with assassination spec?

cerulean junco Mar 10, 2017, 12:20 PM

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mantle with subterfuge are 8 seconds, vanish x2

regal agate Mar 10, 2017, 12:21 PM

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mantle buff is 9 secounds not 8 with subterfuge

gritty schooner Mar 10, 2017, 12:23 PM

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I use Subterfuge but (maybe I'm being retarded :D) the buff still only lasts 6 seconds

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after breaking

regal agate Mar 10, 2017, 12:23 PM

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with vanish only

gritty schooner Mar 10, 2017, 12:23 PM

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ah

cerulean junco Mar 10, 2017, 12:24 PM

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eh ya, mantle is 6 seconds, not 5 right ^^

gritty schooner Mar 10, 2017, 12:24 PM

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Is there any benefit to staying in stealth for any length of time to take advantage of the 100% crit on bleeds?

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Or is it just more worthwhile to break and get the increased damage rupture up

modern aurora Mar 10, 2017, 12:27 PM

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you need the crit to generate a fuckton of cp and spam envenom so no point in staying in stealth

steep cedar Mar 10, 2017, 1:50 PM

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Does anyone have a working mantle APL that includes the usage of Draught of Souls?

north parrot Mar 10, 2017, 2:22 PM

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I've been using the KB 2nd GCD opener, and I definitely don't think garrote is worth refreshing in that one

lunar trout Mar 10, 2017, 2:47 PM

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@steep cedar

actions.cds+=/use_item,name=draught_of_souls,if=equipped.140808&(talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>=3|!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled)&energy.deficit>=80&((equipped.144236&buff.master_assassins_initiative.remains>=3|cooldown.vanish.remains>=10)|!equipped.144236)

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That's the DoS part anyway

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I don't think anyone's published a full optimised APL with vanish usage etc

steep cedar Mar 10, 2017, 4:35 PM

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Where exactly do I add that in the current mantle APL?

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nvm found it

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Does this only use Draught when we have the crit buff? Because optimal usage is once on pull with crit than when it's up with the next vendetta. and then with the next vanish etc

weak quarry Mar 10, 2017, 6:08 PM

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@split sorrel is the updated sub apl intended for use with a particular leg/talent setup? Siming lower by ~1.5% with the new apl using just the boots plus either DS or anticipation

wind otter Mar 10, 2017, 6:10 PM

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@steep cedar DoS damage does not scale with vendetta

steep cedar Mar 10, 2017, 6:15 PM

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@wind otter fair enough but still does it use it on cd or does it only wait for vanish? Because the first one will be stupid

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 7:04 PM

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@weak quarry interesting, give me ur /simc

weak quarry Mar 10, 2017, 7:05 PM

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sure one sec

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rogue="Nastynelbur"
level=110
race=blood_elf
region=us
server=burning_legion
role=
professions=engineering=681/enchanting=768
talents=1223211
spec=subtlety
artifact=17:0:0:0:0:851:1:852:3:853:3:854:3:855:3:856:3:857:3:858:3:859:3:860:3:861:1:862:1:863:1:864:1:865:1:866:1:1349:1:1386:20

head=,id=138332,bonus_id=3516/1492/3336
neck=,id=132444,enchant_id=5439,bonus_id=3458/3455,gem_id=130247
shoulder=,id=138338,bonus_id=3518/1502/1813
back=,id=138371,enchant_id=5435,bonus_id=3516/1497/3336
chest=,id=140865,bonus_id=3445/1502/3336
shirt=,id=4333
tabard=,id=43349
wrist=,id=134461,bonus_id=3536/1552/3337
hands=,id=134444,bonus_id=3536/1552/3337
waist=,id=139197,bonus_id=1806/1517/3337
legs=,id=138335,bonus_id=3516/1487/1813
feet=,id=137032,bonus_id=3455
finger1=,id=140897,enchant_id=5429,bonus_id=3519/41/1507/1813
finger2=,id=140906,enchant_id=5429,bonus_id=3518/1502/1813
trinket1=,id=140806,bonus_id=3516/1492/3336
trinket2=,id=140794,bonus_id=3445/1497/1813
main_hand=,id=128476,bonus_id=743,relic_id=1806:1507:3336/3517:1492:1813/3517:1497:3336,gem_id=139267/140823/140826/0
off_hand=,id=128479,relic_id=0/0,gem_id=0/0/0/0

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@split sorrel

inner kiln Mar 10, 2017, 7:15 PM

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!legendary

split sorrel Mar 10, 2017, 7:18 PM

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will check later ty

restive eagle Mar 10, 2017, 8:06 PM

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I am confused as to why my simulation results always show EP/Exsan build to have more dps, ilvl873 assass

winged sparrow Mar 10, 2017, 9:05 PM

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i dont think your mastery is high enough to run the other build at 873

maiden cargo Mar 10, 2017, 9:54 PM

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soo i wanted to compare 2 relics

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like simming my dps with how it is like now

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and then replace it with the other relic manually

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but where do i get the ID and what exactly is gem id

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is there an guide for that ;/

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HALP PLS

odd sedge Mar 10, 2017, 10:01 PM

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#rules-and-guides

maiden cargo Mar 10, 2017, 10:02 PM

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okay tenks

sacred otter Mar 10, 2017, 10:47 PM

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im guessing the relic spreadsheet is a little off? Replacing a 885 fatebringer with a 900 Black Powder relic sims as an upgrade, the spreadsheet says this should not be the case

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Fatebringer relic with Ring/Bracer/4piece is worth an extra 57.02 ilvls?!

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🤔

rotund current Mar 11, 2017, 1:09 AM

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im not sure the spreadsheet was updated since 715?

muted compass Mar 11, 2017, 2:07 AM

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does anyone have the simc bonus id for trained soldier? want to sim something rq but dont want to waste money on enchanting

velvet heron Mar 11, 2017, 4:27 AM

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can some one help me with what im reading on simulation?

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im not sure if it showingme what i show be oing or what i have been doing

trail wolf Mar 11, 2017, 1:26 PM

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Can anyone tell me if the latest simcraft build works properly with Draught & Convergence?

split sorrel Mar 11, 2017, 2:45 PM

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@weak quarry Are you around ?

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Pretty sure something is wrong on ur end, the APL Update gave you some dps:

📎 unknown.png

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But the major thing was around Mantle

weak quarry Mar 11, 2017, 4:34 PM

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@split sorrel that's strange, with the latest nightly I was siming at 698k with the old apl and 687k with the new. I don't think I'm crazy 😛

split sorrel Mar 11, 2017, 4:34 PM

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link ur full profile

weak quarry Mar 11, 2017, 4:35 PM

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I'll PM you in 10-15 mins, not at my computer atm

lusty hazel Mar 11, 2017, 6:50 PM

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How do you Sim two different apls?

safe aspen Mar 11, 2017, 6:51 PM

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sim 1

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then sim next

gleaming needle Mar 11, 2017, 6:53 PM

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Shadowcrafts telling me I need haste as sub... im at 11%. How much should I have?

split sorrel Mar 11, 2017, 7:09 PM

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Put 2 actor @lusty hazel

vapid ridge Mar 11, 2017, 7:10 PM

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@gleaming needle separate channel for Shadowcraft. Also pretty sure haste is crap for all three specs.

gleaming needle Mar 11, 2017, 7:10 PM

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Thanks, thats what I figured

velvet heron Mar 11, 2017, 7:10 PM

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can any one take a look at my gear for me ?

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im assassin and currently having some issues with my dps

vapid ridge Mar 11, 2017, 7:17 PM

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@velvet heron wrong channel. Let's move up to simple questions and link your armory. I'll try to help a bit. Are you running heroic or mythic night hold?

trail grove Mar 11, 2017, 7:27 PM

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@split sorrel How does SimC handle Sephuz? does it assume you can proc it on cd?

split sorrel Mar 11, 2017, 7:29 PM

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No

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It doesn't handle it at all

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for rogues

maiden cargo Mar 11, 2017, 7:30 PM

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cuz its crap

trail grove Mar 11, 2017, 7:30 PM

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@split sorrel So it's just a stat stick when you sim it

split sorrel Mar 11, 2017, 7:44 PM

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basically yes

round crystal Mar 11, 2017, 8:16 PM

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Anybody else seeing sims that contradict the idea that any item level COF is bis? I'm showing 587kDPS with a 885 digit vs 570k with a 865 COF. That sound right? The digit proc is about 1.9% of my damage, which matches the sim, and the COF only has 300 less agility than the Digit. Didn't know if that was a sim error not valuing vendetta reduction enough

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I do not have boots, 2x MA 1x GW relix

split sorrel Mar 11, 2017, 8:31 PM

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yes it's normal

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agility.

plush flax Mar 11, 2017, 9:56 PM

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Hey guys. I just got introduced to this community from a guildie. I'm playing an assa rogue and a fellow guidie were logging the fights the other night. Out of curiousity i took a look at those logs and i saw that my performance compared to other rogues on those fights were really bad, lol. Talking 30-40% percentile. So i've been looking over guides and simming my gear to figure out if i can do anything different and came to the conclusion that i had no idea where to improve. So i was wondering if there are any kind rogues out there who would take a look at my gear/sim ? 😄 Thanks in advance

split sorrel Mar 11, 2017, 9:58 PM

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Try in #228878985210101760 or #228879234540503040

plush flax Mar 11, 2017, 9:59 PM

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will do, thanks!

sage quest Mar 11, 2017, 11:42 PM

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noob question, I just sim my outlaw and get 510k dps as result, but I do 380k max (after 8~10min in dummy)
there's something I missing or outlaw sim its not that accuracy?

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there's something that I can "extract" from sim results to improve my dps rotation?

split sorrel Mar 11, 2017, 11:57 PM

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You can give a try to my addon, it re-uses SimC APL

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Otherwise, yes it's normal

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you probably didn't take in consideration bloodlust, pots, flasks, rune, etc... etc...
also 1 attemp on dummy means nothing

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and fight length is prolly different ^^

sage quest Mar 12, 2017, 12:06 AM

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oh, thx

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where i can find your addon?

maiden cargo Mar 12, 2017, 12:08 AM

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https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/aethysrotation

AethysRotation

Root Folder

minor acorn Mar 12, 2017, 12:17 AM

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hey guys, a question regarding simcraft: there is a field saying "dps range". Does it mean the mathematical range between min and max of my dps? or does it mean i have to add/substract it to my average dps? 😃

sage quest Mar 12, 2017, 12:22 AM

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thx

dusk raptor Mar 12, 2017, 5:24 PM

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@split sorrel i don't know if anyone elses add on is doing this but mine no longer tells me to use nightblade. is there a update for it or should i jsut undownload it and redownload it.

split sorrel Mar 12, 2017, 5:27 PM

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Support is done on SimCMinMax Discord @dusk raptor

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Link is in the description or on my stream. Let's continue there.

dusk raptor Mar 12, 2017, 5:28 PM

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Ok.

languid thistle Mar 13, 2017, 8:45 AM

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Anyone around?

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I wanted to know if Nightblooming Frond sims properly yet or not and if you had to choose between Kiljadens burning wish and ring of ravenholdt, which would you choose?

vague olive Mar 13, 2017, 9:13 AM

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Frond did get buffed back up again. Trinket vs ring depends on m+ trash or not. Most cases I would take the ring

jovial kraken Mar 13, 2017, 9:24 AM

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I have a lot of gear right now and i don't know exactly what to use, anybody with knowledge who could give me a hand?

languid thistle Mar 13, 2017, 9:33 AM

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Thanks for the info. I also thought Arcanogolem Digit would synergize well on AoE fights over frond with Ravenholdt, what do you think?

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And I meant for Nighthold Bosses

wooden geyser Mar 13, 2017, 2:54 PM

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@split sorrel Does your addon support optimized assa rotation with mantle and subterfuge ?

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Also how does the multidoting work ? I'm struggling on bota to maintain everything + finding the right moment to use vanish/mantle burst without loosing dots too much.

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So i thought your addon could be interesting for that

tribal scroll Mar 13, 2017, 3:02 PM

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atm

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it just follows the assa apl

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which isnt super optimised for the nitty gritty, especially involving mantle

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but thats more a discussion for the simcminmax discord, which he has a link to on his addon page

wooden geyser Mar 13, 2017, 3:07 PM

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Ok, thank you i will look there !

minor acorn Mar 13, 2017, 4:03 PM

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@vague olive frond got buffed?

minor acorn Mar 13, 2017, 4:37 PM

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Where did you get this information from?

round crystal Mar 13, 2017, 4:53 PM

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I would take KJ Burning Wish over ring almost every time. People often overlook the stats on KJ. Not to mention, having Insignia leaves you missing out on 1400-1900 mastery you'd normally be getting on that ring slot

meager sentinel Mar 13, 2017, 5:01 PM

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Anyone else getting diffrent stat weights then they simm on Simc vs Shadowcraft?

jovial kraken Mar 13, 2017, 5:10 PM

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I struggle with some simulations atm and could use some help. I have all 6 pieces and I don't know what to use.. Also my APL tells me to open with garrote > Muti > DoS?

languid thistle Mar 13, 2017, 5:48 PM

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@rain plazacahKJ#9832 Im actually only losing 900, I lose 1300-1350 total if I take off kiljadens as well but the ring slot alone is only 900, since I replace the high crit ring for the legendary's high crit. It does have nice raw stats but

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It seems to be better on 3+ targets overall.

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Just played around with it yesterday

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Even with it replaced though, my mastery sits at 143%, so its not too bad, and I can consider the food buff for that extra .1% on AP

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But I do think for ST fights ill replace the ring for kiljadens, NBF is very inconsistent though. if it procs on a trash pull for the boss youre kind of screwed I noticed.

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Did a 15 arcway and it did 483.6K on the last boss, procced whenever he was doing P2 and it didnt proc again

round canyon Mar 13, 2017, 6:03 PM

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@languid thistle rppm effects dont work like that . procs prior to the boss fight have no bearing on procs during the fight. your rppm 'bad luck protection' is reset when the boss is pulled

languid thistle Mar 13, 2017, 6:13 PM

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So it just didnt proc at all

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Damn that sucks.

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Well of course not at all, just once at the worst time.

sacred grove Mar 13, 2017, 11:48 PM

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is this draught line good to add to the mantle apl?

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actions.cds+=/use_item,name=draught_of_souls,if=equipped.140808&(talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>=3|!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled)&energy.deficit>=80&((equipped.144236&buff.master_assassins_initiative.remains>=3|cooldown.vanish.remains>=10)|!equipped.144236)

tall lantern Mar 14, 2017, 5:21 AM

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What is the apl for subterfuge?

toxic flower Mar 14, 2017, 6:37 PM

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I just got a 905+socket Arcanogolem from Trill. i'm currently using 890 frond+socket and 895 converg. Sims higher with the latter. Think the arcanogolem is good for aoe fights?

safe aspen Mar 14, 2017, 10:03 PM

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probably isn't

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if you're assassination you very rarely aoe in nighthold, I don't see where you'd use a frontal cleave

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I heard it works in mythics though

candid dawn Mar 14, 2017, 11:10 PM

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As a Sub rogue, what should my end goal percent weights be?

maiden cargo Mar 14, 2017, 11:11 PM

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end goal ?:D

candid dawn Mar 14, 2017, 11:11 PM

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through raid fights, i've found that 30%Crit, 10-12% haste 10% Ver and dump the rest into mastery is good. am i wrong?

maiden cargo Mar 14, 2017, 11:16 PM

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mastery > Versatility > crit > haste

candid dawn Mar 14, 2017, 11:18 PM

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that doesnt tell me anything

urban wasp Mar 14, 2017, 11:18 PM

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not strictly true, sim yourself

candid dawn Mar 14, 2017, 11:19 PM

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i do sim myself

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im asking for weights because simc at leaest i dont think advises gems or enchants

urban wasp Mar 14, 2017, 11:20 PM

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it gives you stat weights, you use those to gem /enchant

vague olive Mar 14, 2017, 11:26 PM

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It does tell you what stat you need to aim for

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if you scale for it

candid dawn Mar 14, 2017, 11:26 PM

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where at?

vague olive Mar 14, 2017, 11:26 PM

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It takes a bit longer to run the sim a few mins

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Go to scaling or plots tab at the top of simc

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I don't have it open in front of me

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So I can't guide that well

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But there's an option

candid dawn Mar 14, 2017, 11:27 PM

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i already have scaling turned on

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never used plots what are they?

vague olive Mar 14, 2017, 11:37 PM

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Go to your results tab

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And it will tell you how much each secondary stat is worth

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And each point of agility

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if you scroll down a little

finite lodge Mar 15, 2017, 12:23 AM

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How often does rogue-relevant stuff get updated in simc nightlies? Would appreciate not having to download the latest nightly every time I wanna sim something.

odd sedge Mar 15, 2017, 1:10 AM

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No one is forcing you to.

lusty hazel Mar 15, 2017, 1:17 AM

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It gets updated fairly frequently

prisma roost Mar 15, 2017, 2:17 AM

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!guide

sterile jolt Mar 15, 2017, 2:31 AM

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Anyone able to help me with the syntax - trying to force a pool before vanish

sterile jolt Mar 15, 2017, 3:05 AM

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figured it out

brazen lion Mar 15, 2017, 9:17 AM

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Hmm, Cinidaria and Insignia sims higher than Zoldyck/Cinidaria or Zoldyck/Insignia... Should that be the case or am I simming something wrong? I thought Zoldyck supposed to be quite a bit better that those other two legendaries...

rotund nest Mar 15, 2017, 12:32 PM

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i sim higher with bracer + insignia than cinidaria + insignia atleast

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got nightly build?

civic cradle Mar 15, 2017, 3:29 PM

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I sim higher without legendaries than with

wide forge Mar 15, 2017, 4:05 PM

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idinged just a few days ago (854 ilvl, 860weps). As outlaw sims tells me that vigor+snd > deepstrat+MfD by aboout 6%, is that really correct?

topaz stream Mar 15, 2017, 4:14 PM

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hi,has anyone played with tempered egg of serpentrix?just got a 900 from weekly,was wondering how often does it proc

cold orbit Mar 15, 2017, 4:33 PM

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Hello, i started to sim my outlaw ... i understand the most thinks but i'm not sure what typ of battle i shall use for raiding NH HC. I mean Beastlord, HecticAddCleave or does everybody use Patchwerk? Dont want to sim fo every bossfight. i want an overall sim for the whole raid.

stone sandal Mar 15, 2017, 5:24 PM

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patchwerk is single target minimal moving for mechanics

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use it for a best-estimate type sim

gaunt gale Mar 15, 2017, 5:39 PM

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Should be 0 movement on a patchwerk sim. I'd build around maximising your single target DPS though, since that's the big thing rogues bring.

cold orbit Mar 15, 2017, 6:09 PM

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i understand that but why patchwerk? We dont have a patchwerk encounter except krosus a bit. Would it be falsify the stat weights?

stone sandal Mar 15, 2017, 6:37 PM

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it's patchwerk style

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the enemy is named "fluffy_pillow" and just doesn't move or hit back

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it has scaled health and DR for the correct tier

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you obviously aren't simming a one-shot boss like actual patchwerk in 900ilvl gear

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it's simc's general name for a pure single target, tank'n'spank type of fight

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the Weights for max-ing single target dps will be correct if you sim this way.

dark obsidian Mar 15, 2017, 10:59 PM

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What is the difference between Weak mantle APL and Synep mantle APL? What rotation does Synep APL use, im pretty bad at reading the rotation in the sim, so if any1 has an easier to understand picture or writeup that would be nice

regal agate Mar 15, 2017, 11:32 PM

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you can sim both and look at the sample output

dark obsidian Mar 15, 2017, 11:44 PM

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@regal agate Where do I see this? i simmed both and Synep does 8k more dps

regal agate Mar 16, 2017, 12:11 AM

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in your results, extend the action priority list, scroll down and look at the sample sequence

bleak sky Mar 16, 2017, 6:02 AM

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Where is synep apl? Might get some code ideas from looking at his. Nvm. Found it in pins.

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I've got garrote working properly on mantle apl. Gain 11.5k dps over weak's orig apl. Working on rupture now.

strong willow Mar 16, 2017, 6:09 AM

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are the shoulders being correctly moddled in shadowcraft yet

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or do we still have to use the custom apl

bleak sky Mar 16, 2017, 6:09 AM

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@crystal belfry I added in 4p. Forgot mast with env though. That changes things. 4p was the 1.3x mod.

alpine forge Mar 16, 2017, 6:17 AM

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hi everyone. I need some help to understand an assasination rogue log. can someone here advice me on how to improve

tender relic Mar 16, 2017, 6:17 AM

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Guys how much DPS should I expect to gain taking Subterfuge over Nightstalker with Mantle as assassination?

bleak sky Mar 16, 2017, 6:17 AM

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Both of you ask in general. This channel isn't for that.

alpine forge Mar 16, 2017, 6:18 AM

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gotcha. thx

strong willow Mar 16, 2017, 6:21 AM

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sorry if ive asked for this before but when i sim this comes up

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Sphinctur missing 'use_item' action for item "gnawed_thumb_ring" (slot=finger1)
Sphinctur missing 'use_item' action for item "draught_of_souls" (slot=trinket2)
Disable this warning by adding 'use_item' actions into the action priority list for the actor(s), or add "use_item_verification=0" to your list of options passed to Simulationcraft.

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how do i make sure those are correctly being used?

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do i just make a line that says use_item gnawed_thumb_ring

strong gorge Mar 16, 2017, 7:03 AM

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You can add, if assassination,

actions.cds+=/use_item,name=draught_of_souls,if=equipped.140808&(talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>=3|!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled)&energy.deficit>=80&((equipped.144236&buff.master_assassins_initiative.remains>=3|cooldown.vanish.remains>=10)|!equipped.144236)

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Well first regenerate the apl and it'll automatically add usage for your ring

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(and for DoS, but standard APL usage for that isn't really optimal atm)

maiden cargo Mar 16, 2017, 8:38 AM

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does anyone here know if nightblooming frond is still broken in sims?

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coz i sim like 20k dps higher with my 890 frond than my 905 DoS 😦 (havent got shoulders)

strong willow Mar 16, 2017, 8:44 AM

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@strong gorge i am using the mantle APL from the pinned topic as the current simcraft doesnt work for mantle correctly. can i just add actions.cds+=/use_item,name=gnawed_thumb_ring,if=equipped.134526

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nvm seemed to work, but adding those two lines gave me an additional 70k dps, not sure if it's correct lol

raw agate Mar 16, 2017, 8:51 AM

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@maiden cargo "Jaxu - 03/05/2017
For the last time since it gets asked every day, frond sims accurately, it is just a rppm trinket that fundamentally has a lot of variance ingame" From pinned messages...

maiden cargo Mar 16, 2017, 9:00 AM

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so its actually better than draught unless u have shoulders?

strong willow Mar 16, 2017, 9:10 AM

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ask in general

maiden cargo Mar 16, 2017, 9:12 AM

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isnt it kind of a simulation related topic?

crimson wyvern Mar 16, 2017, 9:14 AM

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new to simc. do I have to set any options? or is comparing default_current_gear with default_new_gear good enough?

strong willow Mar 16, 2017, 9:26 AM

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@crimson wyvern https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pW5mWY9nkfWoRCOHfoXqeeGb8s-jMoSVy-g8uveUv4c/edit

Google Docs

SYOC – Short tutorial

Sim Your Own Char Introduction I am Skasch, a rogue playing in Quichons (Elune-EU) and a theorycrafting lover. You can easily find me on the different WoW class Discord chans. Don’t hesitate to mention me or message me directly if you have any question! This guide is to explain step by step how ...

crimson wyvern Mar 16, 2017, 9:28 AM

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@strong willow thx

graceful drift Mar 16, 2017, 5:20 PM

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can someone please help me when trying to sim DoS? When i sim it says i have an error and I am missing the "use_item" in the apl, where would I put this and what exactly should I type? thanks!

woeful dagger Mar 17, 2017, 5:38 AM

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un

#

re

maiden cargo Mar 17, 2017, 11:02 AM

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hello guys, im talking about the trinket from botanist,wich is better 870/socket or 875?

iron elk Mar 17, 2017, 11:16 AM

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i'm pretty sure that there are some bugs with the trait flying knives, otherwise i cant explain these results

📎 results_html.html

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ferretti_active has the guarm relic that improve fok
meanwhile "veleni" the gul'dan's one that improve poisons.
my spell do less damage (ex. 874k for envenom in the first case, 873k in the second) and this shouldnt happen

torn dome Mar 17, 2017, 11:29 AM

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And what would be wrong with this?

iron elk Mar 17, 2017, 11:35 AM

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how in a single target scenario, where fok isnt even used, 2MA+fok can do more dps than 2MA+ master alchemist?
using AP

torn dome Mar 17, 2017, 11:35 AM

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Have you actually read the tooltip?

iron elk Mar 17, 2017, 11:38 AM

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poison knives works even without using fok?

torn dome Mar 17, 2017, 11:39 AM

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yes

iron elk Mar 17, 2017, 11:40 AM

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so basically it is a striclty better master alchemist?

torn dome Mar 17, 2017, 11:40 AM

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and still bad

iron elk Mar 17, 2017, 11:41 AM

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for me is 800 dps behind a same IL envenom relic

torn dome Mar 17, 2017, 11:43 AM

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When you have mantle envenom relics strenght is fairly unrivaled

iron elk Mar 17, 2017, 11:45 AM

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so for now is pretty good 😄 thanks guarm
and ty for the info 😄

tacit rain Mar 17, 2017, 1:54 PM

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I've got a rogue in my guild that looks like he doesn't do a whole lot of dmg compared to other assassination rogues I've seen, but upon simming him on a single target, 350second fight, he only sims for 634k at 899 ilevel

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he has the shoulders, CoF and draught, but does not have 4pc

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does that sound about right?

modern aurora Mar 17, 2017, 3:09 PM

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4pc is a big damage increase but to sim him you should use the apl pinned here

tacit rain Mar 17, 2017, 3:58 PM

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oh ok cool, thanks a lot

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i'll check that out

loud zenith Mar 17, 2017, 3:59 PM

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SimCraft has Arcane Swipe from Arcanogolem Digit doing 14% of my dps.. my actual logs put it at anywhere from 3-9%. is SimCraft reliable at all for trinkets?

finite thunder Mar 17, 2017, 7:44 PM

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@loud zenith are you using a nightly build? it sim 3% for me

north creek Mar 17, 2017, 7:47 PM

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Hi, anyone that know what % crit/versa/haste/mas i need? Been checking around but couldnt find anything:/

finite thunder Mar 17, 2017, 7:47 PM

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@north creek there is no magic number, always sim yourself

north creek Mar 17, 2017, 7:48 PM

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There must be an x amount

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Minimum amount

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Im 100% sure of that atleast

finite thunder Mar 17, 2017, 7:49 PM

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yeah, you probably dont wanna play sin if you have less than 100% mastery

loud zenith Mar 17, 2017, 7:49 PM

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@finite thunder ah, I was using an older build.. I updated and it is much more accurate. Will be sure to check that next time, thanks!

finite thunder Mar 17, 2017, 7:49 PM

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everyone stack mastery, to have 140%-160% , but thats not a rule

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you can have less than that and still do good damage

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crit you dont need any specific number

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so just sim yourself

raven zinc Mar 17, 2017, 9:11 PM

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does simc automatically apply AP (if specced) in assassin sims?

lusty hazel Mar 17, 2017, 9:13 PM

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Yes

raven zinc Mar 17, 2017, 9:14 PM

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alright thanks

vapid ridge Mar 17, 2017, 9:56 PM

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If I am running one of the nightly builds from lets say two weeks ago. Then I download a new nightly build. Can I just run the .exe file and it will update to the new one or do i need to remove the old one and it's file folder?

merry pike Mar 17, 2017, 9:59 PM

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itll prompt you to uninstall the old version when u install a new one

vapid ridge Mar 17, 2017, 9:59 PM

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even if it is the same version 715-02 just a new nightly

graceful drift Mar 17, 2017, 10:03 PM

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Iam trying to sim my DoS and this is what happens, can anyone help me out? thanks!

📎 help.JPG

rich temple Mar 17, 2017, 10:23 PM

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@graceful drift are you using a custom APL?

graceful drift Mar 17, 2017, 10:28 PM

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I think my issue is my simc is out of date, I will tryo updating and i will see if i still have the same issue, thanks!

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nevermind it still didnt work, and I am using the defualt apl @rich temple

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wait I looked it up via the internet and found how what apl to put in, thanks man! I hope you and everyone here has a great day today!

rich temple Mar 17, 2017, 10:43 PM

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aha well glad you figured it out

robust turret Mar 18, 2017, 12:35 AM

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is there a sim chart for all the races?

tawny cradle Mar 18, 2017, 1:37 AM

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guys can someone link relic ids for simc?

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I want to know if its worth trading a 880 serrated edge for a 865 master assassin

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NVM saw the guide teaching how to get the id

atomic flame Mar 18, 2017, 5:43 PM

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It is pinned

twin ibex Mar 19, 2017, 6:07 AM

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Hey guys, any way to sim with different fight lengths in one go? (bar graph thing)

worldly iris Mar 19, 2017, 12:28 PM

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Isn't there an option in simc to change the length of the fight?

twin ibex Mar 19, 2017, 12:48 PM

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Yeah that's what I did then ran it one sim at a time, I was asking if there was a way to input the different fight lengths so the sim would only run once then result in a bar graph like the one they use to compare trinkets

sudden girder Mar 19, 2017, 1:40 PM

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I'm using custom apl for mantle+DoS while simming my rogue and I just got legendary trinket. Can someone help me to modify the apl so it can also use trinket in sims? Right now every sim just ignores second trinket.

novel pier Mar 19, 2017, 5:59 PM

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With the latest Sub APL, I noticed conditions added for DoS, but when I import from the SimC add-in it doesnt pick it up. Do I need to modify the import to include the item name in the gear list for the script to pick it up properly?

split sorrel Mar 19, 2017, 6:26 PM

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remove apl

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it'll auto generate

tribal scroll Mar 20, 2017, 1:52 AM

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Any simple questions like 'what trinkets do I use 🤔' and 'what is my stat priority' will be removed from this channel immediately. Keep discussion related to simulations/maths.

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viral raven Mar 20, 2017, 3:02 AM

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stupid probably noob question, how do i use a custom APL?

lusty hazel Mar 20, 2017, 6:40 AM

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The easiest way is to import your character, it will generate an APL and then you can edit that one

patent vector Mar 20, 2017, 9:31 AM

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Cam someone help me find out the proper opener for Subterfuge using Synep APL? I'm new and have hard time decrypting the APL sequence. What is the opener and is there a change in playstyle comparing to nightstalker?

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my Simc shows a nice increase in dps with Synep's APL

boreal patrol Mar 20, 2017, 10:24 AM

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@patent vector you can look at the sample sequence under action priority list in the report

patent vector Mar 20, 2017, 10:51 AM

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all right. thanks!

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!rtb

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sry wrong channel 😄

patent vector Mar 20, 2017, 11:34 AM

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well.. looks like i'm wondering something else about Outlaw spec this time. If you have Mantle Of The Master Assassin, I read that you have to RTB until 3 buffs... i have a hard time understanding this. I tested on a dummy, and it happens that i can sometimes stay for 30 seconds without 3 buffs as a huge majority of RTB are single or 2 buffs. I really can't understand how this can be a DPS gain... Especially on the opening sequence if you have to roll 10 times in a row to hope for proper buffs.

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3 buffs seems like an eternity to wait.. especially if you're unlucky, and even when u are..

split sorrel Mar 20, 2017, 11:38 AM

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It's 3 buffs or anything with TB

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Blame Blizzard design :/

wooden marlin Mar 20, 2017, 11:42 AM

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is there any apl that uses draught with shoulders correctly?

spare geode Mar 20, 2017, 11:51 AM

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Has anyone tried out SnD instead of RtB?

patent vector Mar 20, 2017, 11:56 AM

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"design". That just looks like some random dev troll to make people like me go to forums and complain.

split sorrel Mar 20, 2017, 11:57 AM

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It is what I do since months, but they doesn't want to make TB baseline nor fix how good it is. So just do as everyone else, play Assa (or Sub).

patent vector Mar 20, 2017, 12:04 PM

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all right

civic cradle Mar 20, 2017, 12:34 PM

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They like how RtB is and they dont want to change it they believe its a core mechanic of the spec that gives it its individuality and people like it for that

mighty pawn Mar 20, 2017, 12:34 PM

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Yeah, I've been active (with others) on NA forums, the only blue response we've had just defended the current design, made no mention of altering True Bearing, or changing next gold trait into something worthwhile.

civic cradle Mar 20, 2017, 12:34 PM

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which is absolute trash

mighty pawn Mar 20, 2017, 12:35 PM

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This particular development cycle has convinced me that the class development team must be significantly smaller than the game deserves

civic cradle Mar 20, 2017, 12:36 PM

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outlaw is "okay in the average case"

mighty pawn Mar 20, 2017, 12:37 PM

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That's the issue with sims, though. Of course things will even out over 100,000 sims.

civic cradle Mar 20, 2017, 12:37 PM

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the only issue is that it has retarded APM and any downtime is 0 DPS unlike sin, and you're always overcapping on energy and hardly have time to react

mighty pawn Mar 20, 2017, 12:37 PM

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That doesn't mean it feels good or fun for the first 5,000 pulls

civic cradle Mar 20, 2017, 12:38 PM

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the fact that their first iteration of CotDB was +50% energy regen shows how clueless they are

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for 7.2

mighty pawn Mar 20, 2017, 12:39 PM

#

See, the lack of downtime is one of the reasons I'd play outlaw (and old combat) - I prefer that, feels weird to sit on my hands. But the surges between outlaw feeling "good" and feeling bad (which in my experience is more than half the time, anecdotally) are too much to bear when i'm more or less carrying my F&F guild's dps

split sorrel Mar 20, 2017, 12:44 PM

#

That's also a flaw of simc, it never fails a gcd like we do. (You probably experienced that if you use my addon)

#

Even if there is reaction time, blocked condition before a gcd is up, and everything that you can read here and here (and that for some part is on simc), playing it perfectly is very hard.

civic cradle Mar 20, 2017, 12:47 PM

#

^ What Aethys said

#

People laugh at the simplicity of outlaw's rotation but it's actually the most difficult spec to play optimally

split sorrel Mar 20, 2017, 12:49 PM

#

Probably the fastest paced spec I ever had played, every game mixed.
Also you can see there is counter-instinctive things in the APL

#

like SS at 5cp (out of 6)

civic cradle Mar 20, 2017, 12:50 PM

#

@mighty pawn By downtime I didn't mean high APM, I meant that when you have to leave the boss for mechanics, assassination loses minimal dps, outlaw loses 100% dps

split sorrel Mar 20, 2017, 12:50 PM

#

Yes it's the biggest flaw of Outlaw in raids, disconnects.

mighty pawn Mar 20, 2017, 12:50 PM

#

Oh, right. My bad, yeah, obviously I'd agree with that statement

civic cradle Mar 20, 2017, 12:51 PM

#

Take krosus as an example, if you dump all energy to do the bridge smash, by the time he comes back you've lost almost 0 dps

#

with outlaw you've lost 100% dps for that whole duration

#

the duration after energy caps which is usually very fast for outlaw

mighty pawn Mar 20, 2017, 12:52 PM

#

I think that's the biggest problem with outlaw, you have nearly no control over when things are good. So if they're good during a lost-dps phase, you're boned, and you'll slip out of the P O S I T I V E F E E D B A C K L O O P

split sorrel Mar 20, 2017, 12:52 PM

#

just, if you can continue this elsewhere, talking about the rotation itself (APL stuff) is fine, but the overall gameplay belong to #228878985210101760 😃

#

thanks

mighty pawn Mar 20, 2017, 12:52 PM

#

k

#

btw thanks for everything you do, Aethys

patent vector Mar 20, 2017, 1:37 PM

#

Mark Of the Hidden Satyr sims 2k dps more than Mark of the trained soldier. is this normal?

split sorrel Mar 20, 2017, 2:02 PM

#

Why it wouldn't ?

patent vector Mar 20, 2017, 2:03 PM

#

well.. 600 mastery is passive stat. But the satyr might not proc enough to make equal damage?

split sorrel Mar 20, 2017, 2:08 PM

#

IIRC it scales with stats

#

that's why the proc is good

#

it's something they changed in 7.1.5

patent vector Mar 20, 2017, 2:08 PM

#

ooooooh didn't know my bad. well im gonna make the change then

split sorrel Mar 20, 2017, 2:09 PM

#

I don't have the exact data in my head

#

but Navv did it on patch release

#

and the model behind should be accurate

clear steeple Mar 20, 2017, 2:18 PM

#

can anyone tell me which channel I should be asking about a missing item from shadowcraft?

split sorrel Mar 20, 2017, 2:26 PM

#

#226375547381350400 ?

azure wharf Mar 20, 2017, 3:58 PM

#

How would you go about simming without addons

tribal scroll Mar 20, 2017, 4:07 PM

#

by downloading the simcraft program

#

and selecting armory import

#

it even generates the apl for you to tweak

#

as well as specific gear ids

azure wharf Mar 20, 2017, 4:11 PM

#

Guess I should have specified, is there a browser based sim you can use without downloads?

tribal scroll Mar 20, 2017, 4:12 PM

#

nope

#

well

#

there is amr

#

but to be honest i know nothing about the specifics

#

i definitely prefer simc

azure wharf Mar 20, 2017, 4:13 PM

#

Pleasant

#

Is there anything I can do that's phone based? My pc is outta commission for about a month and wanted to at least do something

tribal scroll Mar 20, 2017, 4:16 PM

#

oh definitely not

azure wharf Mar 20, 2017, 4:17 PM

#

Fun

zinc pecan Mar 20, 2017, 5:01 PM

#

you can use that website that sims for you cant you

graceful drift Mar 20, 2017, 5:08 PM

#

how long should we put the fight to be? 300?

azure wharf Mar 20, 2017, 5:22 PM

#

Gonna have to specify there ryler

slate willow Mar 20, 2017, 6:37 PM

#

Probably meant raidbots.com

maiden cargo Mar 21, 2017, 1:38 PM

#

I suppose the Sub APL in the latest nightly builds is always the one the theorycrafters you can find around here (i.e. @split sorrel) have come up with?

#

Or are there more optimized APLs to be found somwhere?

regal agate Mar 21, 2017, 1:56 PM

#

sub apl is well optimized

#

however if you found improvements feel free to share and contribute

maiden cargo Mar 21, 2017, 2:02 PM

#

kk, tyvm

fervent walrus Mar 21, 2017, 2:22 PM

#

@azure wharf use raidbots.com

#

it "cloudified" simc

#

wow i need to learn to read

split sorrel Mar 21, 2017, 4:53 PM

#

@maiden cargo why are u asking ?

maiden cargo Mar 21, 2017, 4:53 PM

#

Just to be sure.

rustic lily Mar 21, 2017, 4:56 PM

#

Where can I find the Subterfuge APL?

#

for Assa ofc

split sorrel Mar 21, 2017, 4:57 PM

#

@maiden cargo Do you need it for something ? May I help ?

#

there might be some tricky thing inside

#

mostly about sprint stuff

maiden cargo Mar 21, 2017, 4:59 PM

#

hmhm, I'm just working through the APL github wiki page and looking over the sub one

#

if i have questions i'll gladly ask here 😃

split sorrel Mar 21, 2017, 5:00 PM

#

I don't understand what u're working on 😄

maiden cargo Mar 21, 2017, 5:19 PM

#

my sim is using versa food, how can i change this?

#

and is not showing pawn stats, need to enable anything?

dense night Mar 21, 2017, 5:37 PM

#

The sims here http://simc.aethys.eu/?C=M;O=D show different rankings for ST legendaries than the !legends link - is this just taking sim vs. reality into consideration or is one outdated?

#

I'm guessing the linked rankings are more accurate for the specific scenarios they are run for and the legendary listing from the bot link is more of a general guide?

split sorrel Mar 21, 2017, 5:39 PM

#

It's probably highly outdated sorry

#

I didn't spend much time on that lately

#

and my "v2" isn't done

maiden cargo Mar 21, 2017, 5:40 PM

#

@split sorrel can you help me changing the food buff? simc gives versa as standard :\

dense night Mar 21, 2017, 5:41 PM

#

Ty @split sorrel . Last question - is frond oversimming in the latest SC release?

split sorrel Mar 21, 2017, 5:42 PM

#

changes the APL @maiden cargo

#

no @dense night

#

except if there were a hotfix recently

maiden cargo Mar 21, 2017, 5:42 PM

#

APL? im a noob 😄

dense night Mar 21, 2017, 5:42 PM

#

Ty!

strong quest Mar 21, 2017, 6:10 PM

#

With the latest realease, if i Exchange my 3 MA relics With 2 and try to sim will it still do KB + vendetta at the same time?

#

and will the results be correct

#

I want to know if its an Upgrade b4 i change

#

got a 870 MA relics i wanna Exchange With a 900 TB

grand ridge Mar 21, 2017, 6:41 PM

#

Someone gave me this few hours ago https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=1982425597

Does anyone know when this will be updated for shoulders combo o: ?

Google Docs

Rogue Relics

Simple By Gray_Hound, Bosses, Latest Update, 1/ 13/ 17,- 7. 1. 5 ilvl Value, Sub Traits, DPS gain from the trait, NH, EN/ ToV+ World, M+, Fel 0, Catlike, 0, Krosus, Shadow 0, Ghost Armor, 0, BRH- 1st, Blood 5. 06, Quiet Knife, 0. 21%,( BS), Chrono Anomaly, Nelth- 2nd, VoW- 1st, Kara- Nightb...

#

cuz this is gud 😄

shell fern Mar 21, 2017, 8:47 PM

#

Just used the raidbots.com item compare and its telling me that frond is 50k better for sub than dos. Used nightly. That seems like too much difference right?

livid plume Mar 21, 2017, 10:30 PM

#

875 fori or 890 angerboda w/socket?
just got it

livid rover Mar 21, 2017, 11:49 PM

#

hey guys i just simmed myself and got my new stat weights, how do i gem and enchant now

#

do rogues have static enchants and gems or do i do it based on my sims?

golden pewter Mar 21, 2017, 11:50 PM

#

Mastery gems/enchants will be the best

livid rover Mar 21, 2017, 11:50 PM

#

im outlaw btw

golden pewter Mar 21, 2017, 11:50 PM

#

oh

#

Vers then

livid rover Mar 21, 2017, 11:51 PM

#

so always gem and enchant vers, dont worry about sims?

golden pewter Mar 21, 2017, 11:51 PM

#

umm

#

I dont think any other stat will take over

#

Im 100% sure

livid rover Mar 21, 2017, 11:52 PM

#

( Pawn: v1: "Ainslohc": Agility=18.45, HasteRating=7.95, MasteryRating=8.47, Versatility=13.35, CritRating=14.08 )

#

my current pawn string

golden pewter Mar 21, 2017, 11:53 PM

#

what is your crit at?

#

The weights are pretty close but I prefer more than crit for outlaw

livid rover Mar 21, 2017, 11:54 PM

#

29.07%

golden pewter Mar 21, 2017, 11:54 PM

#

what legendaries do you have?

livid rover Mar 21, 2017, 11:55 PM

#

Greenskin's, Insignia, Shivarran, and Thraxi's

#

i mainly use geenskins and insignia

golden pewter Mar 21, 2017, 11:55 PM

#

so jealous of those greenskins

#

:>]

livid rover Mar 21, 2017, 11:56 PM

#

i got them off star augur on monday, still learning how to use them hahah

golden pewter Mar 21, 2017, 11:56 PM

#

nice dude

dense night Mar 21, 2017, 11:56 PM

#

what diff?

#

*difficulty

livid rover Mar 21, 2017, 11:56 PM

#

just a normal run

dense night Mar 21, 2017, 11:56 PM

#

nice, congrats!

golden pewter Mar 21, 2017, 11:57 PM

#

PogChamp

livid rover Mar 21, 2017, 11:57 PM

#

also got convergence that night

barren halo Mar 22, 2017, 12:17 AM

#

Sorry if this has already been asked but when I manually change my profile to have DoS in SimC, I don't see DoS in the APL

#

I was wondering if SimC is in fact using DoS and I don't see it or if the decreased dps is due to SimC not using it

odd sedge Mar 22, 2017, 12:51 AM

#

look at the damage breakdown? weird question

lusty hazel Mar 22, 2017, 1:05 AM

#

@barren halo if you import your character and then change to an on use trinket manually, just delete the APL lines and it will use what is appropriate when you sim it

worn blaze Mar 22, 2017, 1:51 AM

#

Whats a good way for a of setting for outlaw if you only use it in mythic + / cleave fights?

barren halo Mar 22, 2017, 2:31 AM

#

@odd sedge You're right, it didn't occur to me to look at the breakdown

stoic wing Mar 22, 2017, 3:05 AM

#

Am i able to post logs here for criticism?

#

allowed*

tribal scroll Mar 22, 2017, 3:05 AM

#

no

stoic wing Mar 22, 2017, 3:06 AM

#

is there a good place? If not would appreciate if anyone wouldn't mind PMing me for heroic NH critique

#

thanks! sorry

tribal scroll Mar 22, 2017, 3:06 AM

#

general

stoic wing Mar 22, 2017, 3:06 AM

#

thanks

sleek moss Mar 22, 2017, 9:47 AM

#

Hey, I was trying to figure out what second legendary I should equip. I have shoulders (which are obviously a no-brainer), insignia and the belt. According to simcraft the belt is better (assuming a patchwork fight ofc). And I thought this makes sense, due to the opener being stronger, but some days ago I read that the belt is not simming correctly or rather that simcraft is overvaluing the belt. I would love to get some insight/input from you. 😃

strong gorge Mar 22, 2017, 10:14 AM

#

Well, this is a question more suitable in simple questions or general.
But first you need to define for yourself, what is "better". What is your goal? Do you want to look good on meters? Do you want to make the first 10% of a fight easier, or the whole fight easier but the first 10% not as much? Will the insignia hit other mobs and does it hitting these mobs help you? Is it progress, what is your raid struggling with?
There's a lot of things that goes into deciding on what talents and what items to use other than looking at pure dps numbers. It depends on what your goal is. Very often the thing that helps you kill a new boss in less attempts is different from what would make you do overall more dps. The most obvious example is lowering your overall dps because you're saving CD's for an important add or phase.

sleek moss Mar 22, 2017, 10:50 AM

#

okay, thank you for your answer? moving the question to general/simple questions next time. I wanted to know more about the way simcraft is simming the belt, because it was mentioned some days ago, that it is overvaluing cinidaria. I am not talking about progression, because as you mentioned more dps != more succes on a boss. "Better" in the case of a simulation/patchwork fight is already defined by doing more dps and that was all I wanted to know.

strong gorge Mar 22, 2017, 10:57 AM

#

I have not seen that cinidaria should be badly implemented in the current builds. Didn't find any FIXME either. If you find anything concrete that's wrong with it, feel free to write it here.
However, it might (?) cause some issues with target duration. You can always use these resources to fix monster health to be equal in each setup you sim. Currently simcraft estimates a monster health based on how long it would take you to kill it.

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/TargetOptions

GitHub

simulationcraft/simc

simc - Simulationcraft engine/GUI

split sorrel Mar 22, 2017, 11:00 AM

#

Mechanic-wise, it is correct.
But, considering how enemy health changes it's not always realistic

#

Because of parameters like Lust, raid comp, etc...

#

If you raid got 10 SP or 10 DH, the 90% portion won't last the same (yeah I took extreme but you get my point)

#

So it's not possible to give a "perfect value"

#

Although, it depends on what kind of encounter

#

Some like Elisande have multiple portion of 90%, others got adds where it's good, and then others like Etraeus got a 90+% useless portion

#

(damage on "first stage" of Etraeus aren't really usefull)

#

Hope it's more clear for you @sleek moss 😃

#

And I verified Cinidaria implementation with Navv some weeks ago, it procs 30% on everything (and doesn't double dip with anything, although it considers well dmg modifier unlike insignia) except neck enchants and pets (like akaari, dunno about "real pet" like bm has)

sleek moss Mar 22, 2017, 1:02 PM

#

Ye that did clear it up. Thanks to both of you for Taking your Time and answering 😄

modest ravine Mar 22, 2017, 2:59 PM

#

does the belt not scale with ghostly strike?

split sorrel Mar 22, 2017, 3:10 PM

#

it does

#

AFAIK

modest ravine Mar 22, 2017, 3:28 PM

#

what is "AFAIK"?

zinc pecan Mar 22, 2017, 3:29 PM

#

as far as I know

modest ravine Mar 22, 2017, 3:30 PM

#

oooo. got it. thanks @split sorrel and @zinc pecan

rare trail Mar 22, 2017, 3:49 PM

#

hey guys i have a stats question im assasin and im at 30% crit and 160% mastery 10% haste and 5% vers i have some peices i can swap to take from mastery a bit for more crit should i do that i feel like i might be over doing the mastery at this point

weary parcel Mar 22, 2017, 4:29 PM

#

have you tried simming it?

lusty hazel Mar 22, 2017, 5:12 PM

#

@slixx if you have a handful of gear and want to find the best combination, I would recommend the simpermut addon. It will generate a simc profile with combinations of gear you select (they have to be in your bags). However, selecting more then 5 or so extra pieces will take awhile to sim, so don't just throw everything into it

bleak sky Mar 22, 2017, 5:49 PM

#

Assuming 150% mastery and 25% crit.

7.1.5.
Garrote would give us an estimated 2886% AP over it's duration if applied during the subterfuge period. (((90%AP)x4)x2.25)x2) which is equal to 1620% AP (est 4 ticks with 100% crit) + ((90%AP)x5)x2.25)x1.25) which is equal to 1266% AP

Pandemic can give us potentially two extra ticks worth 253% AP each or an extra 506% AP total.
This gives us a maximum possible grand total of 3392% AP. However, it is a PITA to get a pandemic garrote with mantle outside of the opener.

A mantled envenom would give
((60%AP)x5)x1.3)x2.5)x1.1)x2) = 2145% AP @ 5CP
((60%AP)x4)x1.3)x2.5)x1.1)x2) = 1716% AP @ 4CP

A nightstalker rupture would give (150%)x12)x1.5)x1.1) = 2970 % AP without pandemic.
With pandemic we get up to 3 extra ticks. This would give us (150%)x15)x1.5)x1.1) assuming no criticals = 3713 %AP

With mantle and a 25% crit chance we would get 4 guaranteed critical ticks, ~3 expected non-mantle critical ticks and ~8 normal ticks. This would give us (150%)x4)x1.5)x1.1)x2) + (150%)x11)x1.5)x1.1)x1.25) = 1980+ 3403 = 5383% AP

Conclusion. A nightstalker rupture will outdamage a subterfuge garrote, however, the extra three seconds of 100% crit make up for the lower damage output. Garrote is superior to a mantle Envenom.

#

With 7.2

Garrote would give us an estimated 2734% AP over its duration if applied during the subterfuge period. (((90%AP)x3)x2.25)x2) which is equal to 1215% AP (est 3 ticks with 100% crit) + ((90%AP)x6)x2.25)x1.25) which is equal to 1519% AP.

Assuming Garrote only ticks twice instead of thrice during mantle period we get 2582% AP total.

Pandemic can give us potentially two extra ticks worth 253% AP each or an extra 506% AP total. This gives us a grand total of 3240 or 3088% AP. As I said above, however, it is a PITA to get a pandemic garrote with mantle outside of the opener.

Nightstalker is by far the superior talent choice as a Nightstalker Rupture will out damage a Subterfuge garrote at the base level.

The addition of the new Garrote traits and T20 bonuses, however, will greatly change things.

Using the same assumptions as above. Assuming 4/4 Rupture and 4/4 Garrote.

4/4 ranks in the garrote trait will give us a 1.16x modifier. Using our base values found above for 7.2 we get 3171% AP with three mantle ticks or 2995% AP with 2 mantle ticks.

A max pandemic garrote would give us 3758 or 3582% AP depending on mantle ticks.

4/4 ranks in the rupture trait would give us (150%)x3)x1.5)x1.13)x2) + (150%)x12)x1.5)x1.13)x1.25) = 1525.5 + 3813.75 = 5339.25% AP

T20 4p gives us a 1.6x modifier. Assuming a max pandemic garrote which is very easy with 2p. Using our base values found above, a subterfuge Garrote gives a total of 5184 or 4941% AP depending on mantle ticks. The addition of 4/4 ranks in the garrote trait on top of that gives a total of 6013 or 5731% AP.

#

Conclusion: With the loss in 7.2 of the 3 seconds of additional 100% crit from Subterfuge, Nightstalker is the superior talent choice with 4/4 garrote and 4/4 rupture taken into consideration. However, with 4P t20 and at least three ranks (1 if we get 3 garrote mantle ticks) in the garrote trait Subterfuge is the superior choice. [Nightstalker (5339% AP) and Subterfuge (5336% AP) are equal with 2/4 ranks in garrote if garrote will only tick twice during mantle period]

scarlet gale Mar 22, 2017, 7:14 PM

#

whats best opener with shoulders and draught?

ivory stag Mar 22, 2017, 9:27 PM

#

does anyone know if simc apl uses prolonged at 30% if u have sin bracers and choose prolonged instead of old war?

vague olive Mar 22, 2017, 10:05 PM

#

@bleak sky that's assuming you're not using bracers and boots as bis instead of mantle in 7.2 cause you would use 2x t19 and 4xt20, one slot would take up shoulders

#

I think it's fairly obvious a mantle nerf to sub and sin cause it's retarded for them

#

And not hitting outlaw

#

Outlaw possibly getting more value from mantle 🤔

split sorrel Mar 22, 2017, 10:07 PM

#

not more value, value just do not decrease

#

since there is no subterfuge

#

and the value was coming from vanish cdr

vague olive Mar 22, 2017, 10:15 PM

#

I meant comparatively, not like more value for outlaw

#

but outlaw is still getting 3.5% aura buff, iirc

#

(I meant not an increase, but outlaw would gain more damage from it as a percentage of dps contribution to total dps, due to crit buff)

#

if that makes sense

#

I think this will bring outlaw closer in line with the other two specs especially since we don't care about t19 we can keep using mantle

#

In 7.2

#

But still also bad long term cause outlaws reliance on mantle/wrists to carry dps xd

terse turret Mar 22, 2017, 10:22 PM

#

if im trying to sim boots against another pair of boots to see which is better for trash given my current gear, what setting should I use? i assume not patchwerk

split sorrel Mar 22, 2017, 10:24 PM

#

you mean rely on True Bearing 😃

vague olive Mar 22, 2017, 10:25 PM

#

and yeah

#

TB

#

😦

odd sedge Mar 22, 2017, 11:55 PM

#

Anyone bothered to sim the nerfed 7.2 mantle?

#

if its still bis

split sorrel Mar 23, 2017, 12:03 AM

#

it's implemented

opal sleet Mar 23, 2017, 12:05 AM

#

what was nerfed about it?

split sorrel Mar 23, 2017, 12:11 AM

#

subterfuge

terse turret Mar 23, 2017, 12:30 AM

#

does anyone have a draught apl? w/o shoulder\

lime fox Mar 23, 2017, 1:19 AM

#

Hi, does anyone have any numbers on the value of soul shadows(sub) in conjunction with the legendary bracers?

#

in comparison to w/o bracers?

hallow gull Mar 23, 2017, 3:15 AM

#

Do I have to change anything for mantle simming, or does simc just auto adjust the opener if i have it equipped? Also post 7.2 do you still use subterfuge with it or is there no point after the fix?

cerulean junco Mar 23, 2017, 8:48 AM

#

someone tried to simulate switching to DP every few seconds to apply it and then reapply agonizing poison in a ST scenario?

#

or even in an aoe situation like tichondrius bat phase

torn dome Mar 23, 2017, 9:27 AM

#

They overwrite each other

cerulean junco Mar 23, 2017, 12:11 PM

#

<- retard

tawdry solar Mar 23, 2017, 12:11 PM

#

you still can switch and use it on bat phase to pad or if you want to help out in aoe dmg like on spellblade with the adds

#

just switch back to ap after

minor acorn Mar 23, 2017, 3:43 PM

#

If my dps is 700k and my dps range is 100k, does that mean my dps is

between 600k and 800k or 2. is it between 650k and 750k?

civic cradle Mar 23, 2017, 3:51 PM

#

is that a trick question?

#

you might want to post that in #228879234540503040

minor acorn Mar 23, 2017, 4:01 PM

#

Nope, i'm just unsure if it's mathematical correct implemented. I play outlaw and my simdps is 756 (lorokhan https://www.wowprogress.com/simdps/eu/connected-arthas/class.rogue) with a range of close to 280k.
Mathematically this means my dps should be between 620k and 900k dps. But in reality it's more like 500k and 1 million dps, which would fit the (mathematically wrong) option in +/- the full value stated under range.

split sorrel Mar 23, 2017, 4:03 PM

#

It doesn't work like this.

minor acorn Mar 23, 2017, 4:05 PM

#

Yeah I thought so, that's why I asked 😃

#

If it's still the wrong channel I'm sorry

#

and i'm aware that my median dps doesnt have to be right in the middle of the range.

#

oh wow, i new feel kinda dumb, if i mouse over there is an explanation. Ok its standard deviation 😃

split sorrel Mar 23, 2017, 4:11 PM

#

yes you can also see the spread a bit lower

#

well, right word in english is distribution I guess 😄

#

there are a lot of debate between median & mean

#

but just remember that with a high enough amount of iterations, they can be the same

#

due to CLT. If you're on SimCMinMax discord, there were a discussion about it some days (weeks ?) ago

#

also remember other factors which define the "context" of a simulation

#

i.e. fight length, activity, ...

minor acorn Mar 23, 2017, 4:22 PM

#

i should take a look at SimCMinMax discord for further questions, thank you very much Aethys for answering 😃

stark moon Mar 23, 2017, 5:29 PM

#

What was the nerf to mantle

#

I didnt even see it

#

T_T

split sorrel Mar 23, 2017, 5:35 PM

#

#tc-updates

stark moon Mar 23, 2017, 5:45 PM

#

@split sorrel was there a nerf to mantle?

split sorrel Mar 23, 2017, 5:46 PM

#

read #tc-updates

stark moon Mar 23, 2017, 5:47 PM

#

tys!

tawny chasm Mar 23, 2017, 8:55 PM

#

hi, how accurate is simcraft for sub with mantle of the master assassin ?`

split sorrel Mar 23, 2017, 8:56 PM

#

really accurate 😃

tawny chasm Mar 23, 2017, 8:59 PM

#

i saw there is a new apl for assa

#

is there another one for sub too ?

regal agate Mar 23, 2017, 9:00 PM

#

simc uses the most recent one 😃

tawny chasm Mar 23, 2017, 9:38 PM

#

alright thanks

feral crystal Mar 24, 2017, 12:25 AM

#

what is the SimCMinMax discord?

wild meteor Mar 24, 2017, 3:06 AM

#

does latest nightly build contain ptr nerf for subterfurge synergy or is that yet to be implemented?

split sorrel Mar 24, 2017, 3:49 AM

#

it is

fervent walrus Mar 24, 2017, 5:46 AM

#

what fight type should i sim on/?

#

for NH

past otter Mar 24, 2017, 6:16 AM

#

What spec?

viscid sonnet Mar 24, 2017, 6:58 AM

#

Any word on if we should go straight for Sinister Circulation (kingsbane cd trait) or 4/4 our better old traits (MA, GW, Rup crit, Envenom)?

golden pewter Mar 24, 2017, 6:58 AM

#

I would probably go MA, Gw, envenom dmg, 10%dmg first

#

since you cant really farm alot of ap until you get higher AK

viscid sonnet Mar 24, 2017, 7:01 AM

#

true, but what if the kb trait is REALLY good

#

by going 4/4's first youd be fucking yourself out of getting it for a pretty long time

#

wew 😰

golden pewter Mar 24, 2017, 7:07 AM

#

yea

#

still a long time even with ak

#

:[

agile valley Mar 24, 2017, 7:10 AM

#

if you beeline straight to the kingsbane cdr its 68 mill ap so as much as we earnt for our weapon already

tepid pulsar Mar 24, 2017, 7:18 AM

#

the calculators have been updated now, you can't go straight for kingsbane

#

the new ones dont unlock until you get all the other points in

agile valley Mar 24, 2017, 7:19 AM

#

thats for concordance not the others at least in the calc im using

livid zephyr Mar 24, 2017, 7:47 AM

#

Hey guys, does simming not account for subterfuge? it's showing a 100k dps loss between simming that and nightstalker, i have mantle, assa spec

lusty hazel Mar 24, 2017, 8:03 AM

#

@tepid pulsar Can you link me to one of the updated calculators, I can't seem to find one.

fervent walrus Mar 24, 2017, 12:56 PM

#

does outlaw sims on simc assume 6 buffs all the time?

merry pike Mar 24, 2017, 1:00 PM

#

No

fervent walrus Mar 24, 2017, 1:17 PM

#

it just looks like my sims jumpoed 120k and i dont know why

civic cradle Mar 24, 2017, 1:20 PM

#

it's all those nuts you're eating

fervent walrus Mar 24, 2017, 1:38 PM

#

lol

#

is there any sheet that says how much of a dps increase 4pc is vs 2pc for outlaw?

civic cradle Mar 24, 2017, 1:41 PM

#

they were both around 3.5% IIRC

fervent walrus Mar 24, 2017, 1:43 PM

#

gracias

#

i hate my legendaries, but it looks like i have to wear both and lose 4pc due to pure stat gain from the legendary

#

will of valeera and cindaria

round vapor Mar 24, 2017, 2:49 PM

#

inb4 sephuz's secret as your third

#

will of valeera are so bad, not just because of the effect but because they're so heavy on +haste rather than a meaningful stat

#

but you still have tier cape, shoulders, chest, head, and gloves to make a 4 set from

split sorrel Mar 24, 2017, 2:55 PM

#

😉 😉

dusky slate Mar 24, 2017, 4:23 PM

#

with 7.2 around the corner I thought I'd try some ptr=1 simming to see what new artifact trait effects there are on dps. First thing I notice is a 35k dps loss, then looking at the data realized that there's no poison bomb damage being modelled at all when ptr=1. Should I even be bothering trying to sim for 7.2 at the moment?

split sorrel Mar 24, 2017, 4:23 PM

#

no.

#

until I say "it's ready"

#

it is not

#

^^

#

only thing you can see

#

is bugfixes

dusky slate Mar 24, 2017, 4:24 PM

#

cool 😃 thanks! saves me some time today, lol

normal slate Mar 24, 2017, 4:42 PM

#

Hmm, just got a 895 Stabilized Energy Pendant (neck with 5% bonus max energy) Does anyone know if Simulationcraft actually calculates the 5% energy bonus?

split sorrel Mar 24, 2017, 4:43 PM

#

y it should

normal slate Mar 24, 2017, 4:43 PM

#

ok, thanks a lot!

split sorrel Mar 24, 2017, 4:43 PM

#

not bad as an Assassination Gnome w/ Vigor 😛

normal slate Mar 24, 2017, 4:44 PM

#

Im subtelty, not sure if the 5% energy is worth getting so much crit ( i got mantle so crit is pretty bad)

#

if i sim it, i lose 700 dps. Nothing basicly

sinful heart Mar 24, 2017, 9:55 PM

#

any thoughts to delaying another traight in MA for 7.2? right now i have to wait for kingsbane to come off of cooldown with CoF.

#

so pick up the 10%, envenom, gushing wounds and a point into new garrote

vapid ridge Mar 24, 2017, 10:01 PM

#

is it just me or is the cape not very good even on AOE?

#

It feels very week to me

#

I have Boots\Wrists\Belt\KJBW\Sephuz\ and now Cape

#

I was thinking of trying Dreadlord's and KJBW for aoe like spellblade, but do you guys think i'd be better off just going with Boots and Wrists? (I have Frond and CoF)

sinful heart Mar 24, 2017, 10:11 PM

#

i would. rupture what you can and focus on single target

quick pier Mar 25, 2017, 12:10 AM

#

So i just picked up footpads, and i only have 1MA relic, options are 890 frond, 900 dos, and 860 cof. Currently frond and dos sim highest but Im wondering if/when i should use CoF

#

Aa a note, sin spec

late wren Mar 25, 2017, 12:12 AM

#

dont really like giving this answer cause i feel that im not really helping but just sim it and practice with all the trinkets and see

meager shore Mar 25, 2017, 1:04 AM

#

someone got a sheet for 7.2 New Trait purchase order including all 3 specs?

bleak sky Mar 25, 2017, 2:34 AM

#

@split sorrel got a 7.2 bug for ya. Poison Bomb is not implemented at all on the ptr version.

split sorrel Mar 25, 2017, 2:36 AM

#

I am aware

bleak sky Mar 25, 2017, 2:43 AM

#

Oh ok. Well so far a Nightstalker build beats a subterfuge build very easily. 30k+ We'll see if that changes when PB and the UTK changes are implimented.

#

Just like I thought it would. Unlike some people who argued against me...

fiery moon Mar 25, 2017, 3:43 AM

#

Is there an estimate of how much dps sub lose with the mantle change?

split sorrel Mar 25, 2017, 4:00 AM

#

5%

fiery moon Mar 25, 2017, 4:01 AM

#

So in short sub will get hit pretty hard with the anticipation bug fix and shoulders... x_x?

split sorrel Mar 25, 2017, 4:02 AM

#

y

fiery moon Mar 25, 2017, 4:05 AM

#

guess it is finally time to switch spec, sigh. Why does each patch hit sub when there is like 10% of the rogue population playing th spec

split sorrel Mar 25, 2017, 4:21 AM

#

I learned to live with and play Assa

#

😃

patent bay Mar 25, 2017, 4:29 AM

#

Is it going to be that bad 😦 i was looking forward to sub in tomb

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:29 AM

#

lol so sub is over and never gonna raise 😦

#

finally got boot for etraus mm and i have to switch spec for 7.2 pff and assa so boring..

patent bay Mar 25, 2017, 4:30 AM

#

I know im in the same boat 😦

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:31 AM

#

i tought assa was nerf with mantle nerf and 4p but after i see the bugfix i lost all hope

buoyant depot Mar 25, 2017, 4:34 AM

#

^well sub is currently performing really well so even with a 5% nerf i wouldn't loose all hope

#

our traits seem really good and at least 2 piece is gonna be strong

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:34 AM

#

@split sorrel so we level up assa after 7.2 if we do mm content, no hope for sub even with boot/bracer ?

#

its more than 5% nerf with the fix of finality

#

the mantle nerf is for all the spec atleast but finality bug was the only thing that make sub viable

buoyant depot Mar 25, 2017, 4:37 AM

#

well our aoe is getting hit extremely hard with finality dfa bug getting fixed but id say it will still be fine

#

having a gameplaychanging bug isnt exactly something i personally enjoy and if we end up like shit you can expect hotfix bugs at some point

#

buffs*

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:38 AM

#

evi get hit a lot with finality fix too, not only aoe

buoyant depot Mar 25, 2017, 4:38 AM

#

ye i know. but its not that insane

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:39 AM

#

you are right if it was a spec that alot of ppl play but sub..

swift lynx Mar 25, 2017, 4:39 AM

#

finality bug is certainly not the only thing that makes sub viable

#

what

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:40 AM

#

evi is like more than 40% of my damage right now, so with finality fix, we loose like 10% mayb 15% on 1/2 evi ?

#

finality +mantle

buoyant depot Mar 25, 2017, 4:40 AM

#

10% overall evisc dmg if you perfectly get 10 cp every non-finality eviscerate and dont overcap cp

swift lynx Mar 25, 2017, 4:40 AM

#

the best sub player doesn't even run anticipation

gleaming nimbus Mar 25, 2017, 4:40 AM

#

-+!12RUYUYUYUYUYUYUYUYUYUYUYUYUYUYUYUYJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJG300.

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:40 AM

#

evi at 6-9 cp was still a boost too with finality!

swift lynx Mar 25, 2017, 4:40 AM

#

if u think sub is unviable without finality bug right now ur delusional

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:41 AM

#

y he is a god but we are not all god

swift lynx Mar 25, 2017, 4:41 AM

#

ok

#

point still stands

#

abusing the bug perfectly is like a 4% increase

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:41 AM

#

yes we probably need to switch talent

hollow timber Mar 25, 2017, 4:41 AM

#

what exactly are the mantle changes/nerfs?

buoyant depot Mar 25, 2017, 4:42 AM

#

@swift lynx exactly my opinion

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:42 AM

#

but we can give up t19 4p ?

buoyant depot Mar 25, 2017, 4:42 AM

#

@hollow timber check theorycrafting tab

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:42 AM

#

we will see when 7.2 hit but 4% seems low

swift lynx Mar 25, 2017, 4:42 AM

#

?

buoyant depot Mar 25, 2017, 4:42 AM

#

its not a big deal to drop anticipation bug. at most it's 4% more realisticly 3%

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:43 AM

#

i hope you are right!

fiery moon Mar 25, 2017, 4:43 AM

#

really curious how strpol plays with 4pc and DS

covert comet Mar 25, 2017, 4:43 AM

#

but playing anticipation now seems not good compared to stratagem

#

@fiery moon yep same

swift lynx Mar 25, 2017, 4:46 AM

#

u don't really waste much cp playing ds

#

if you play properly

buoyant depot Mar 25, 2017, 4:47 AM

#

is the shadowdance-stealth prepull opener getting fixed with 7.2?

split sorrel Mar 25, 2017, 5:15 AM

#

play DS if u have mantle

#

not ant

#

even with Finality bug

#

well rather, play DS if u don't have bracers

#

no @buoyant depot

buoyant depot Mar 25, 2017, 5:34 AM

#

@split sorrel wait i thought anticipation was a dps increase regardless with the bug. sad that prepull bug isnt getting fixed as well but at least ill get more dps from it while its in game. thanks for the answear

swift lynx Mar 25, 2017, 5:56 AM

#

anticipations a lot more forgiving on mistakes and less dependent on energetic rng (if u don't have boots)

modern basalt Mar 25, 2017, 8:49 AM

#

yo guys, somehelp me with apls for shoulders + dos :> cant make it right 😦

split sorrel Mar 25, 2017, 12:52 PM

#

dark obsidian Mar 25, 2017, 3:11 PM

#

hey guys, trying to sim Draught together with the mantle APL, so I took the draught action line from the APL sample list from a sim without mantle APL inserted, but it gives me an error when I try to combine the 2, not sure what is wrong?

#

nvm figured it out

zinc pecan Mar 25, 2017, 3:26 PM

#

@torn dome can you share your mantle apl? you said a few days its better than the pinned one

warped adder Mar 25, 2017, 6:22 PM

#

Hello guys, just go insignia, and the extra I got is only the +3.9% flat damage ?

#

got insignia, and i'm wondering if the extra damage i got is *

tribal scroll Mar 25, 2017, 6:25 PM

#

On st yes thats around what the damage effect sims

warped adder Mar 25, 2017, 6:30 PM

#

Ok thx

#

Well, at the 7.2 it will be only for ST anyway?

tribal scroll Mar 25, 2017, 6:30 PM

#

Thats not a simulation question

noble pendant Mar 25, 2017, 7:05 PM

#

I tried changing the priority list for my sin simulation, as the opener in simulationcraft (I have draught and mantly) is vanish mut rupture draught torrent mutilate garrote rupture kings vendetta, which is all sorts of weird. Any quick and clean way to change that?

torn dome Mar 25, 2017, 9:42 PM

#

http://pastebin.com/tM5g1H8d
What the apl I currently use looks like @zinc pecan

Pastebin

rogue="Weakholder" level=110 race=blood_elf talents=1230011 spec...

ivory stag Mar 25, 2017, 9:54 PM

#

Any1 here happens to have a simc line handy or a knowledgable person that can make a line where it pops prolonged at >30% boss hp?

bleak sky Mar 25, 2017, 10:09 PM

#

📎 Subterfuge72.html

#

📎 Subterfuge715.html

#

📎 Nightstalker715.html

#

📎 Nightstalker72.html

#

http://pastebin.com/kmPbS3D9

Pastebin

Boots + Mantle + DoS + CoF Subterfuge 7.1.5/7.2 - Pastebin.com

#

http://pastebin.com/PUA6qML1

Pastebin

Boots + Mantle + DoS + CoF Nightstalker 7.1.5/7.2 - Pastebin.com

#

There are my APLs. They are pretty solid at this point I'd say. I'm still mucking around with Kingsbane and Vanish though. Trying to force it to wait for the last portion of kingsbane has been frustrating. Let me know if you find any errors.

nocturne niche Mar 25, 2017, 10:36 PM

#

WHy the drop in damage in 7.2?

#

75k~

noble pendant Mar 25, 2017, 10:39 PM

#

Those APL's dont seem all that right

#

My 895 sin rogue simmed at 283 and kings/draught/rupture are all under 1mil per execute

bleak sky Mar 25, 2017, 10:43 PM

#

@nocturne niche The new Poison Bomb isn't implimented yet on the PTR version. Also subterfuge no longer extends 100% crit by 3 seconds when you vanish.

nocturne niche Mar 25, 2017, 10:43 PM

#

I'm trying to figure out how much DPS im going to lose from going back NS because of the nerf, but 75k seems drastic

bleak sky Mar 25, 2017, 10:43 PM

#

@noble pendant PM me the exact apl you are using.

deft maple Mar 26, 2017, 3:49 AM

#

So without using subterfuge since it's breaking, is mantle still on top using NS vs. other legi's?

bleak sky Mar 26, 2017, 3:50 AM

#

Yes

sterile jolt Mar 26, 2017, 6:40 AM

#

@mossy hearth Posting here because I can't post in the theorycrafting channel. I went over the sim you posted in TC. The issue you're having with mantle-subterfuge is in the APL. If you check the sample actions, vanish is only followed by garrote once, other times its used for KB and envenom. Also, the zoldycks sub build never casts vanish.

mossy hearth Mar 26, 2017, 8:15 AM

#

but look at the opener garrote

#

why is the sub one the lower of the 2

#

i know the other things, basically

sterile jolt Mar 26, 2017, 9:28 AM

#

@mossy hearth Why is there a 1 ilvl difference between the 2 gear sets?

terse thistle Mar 26, 2017, 10:18 AM

#

is nightblooming frond simming correctly atm?

#

i just got it and compared it to my dos, and it simmed the same

regal agate Mar 26, 2017, 10:20 AM

#

frond is simming correct and the answer of this question is even pinned.

eternal oasis Mar 26, 2017, 12:22 PM

#

why is it that everyday someone asks about frond simming correctly

split narwhal Mar 26, 2017, 12:25 PM

#

Because on !trinkets, at the top it still says that frond sims higher than it should be

safe aspen Mar 26, 2017, 2:27 PM

#

@mossy hearth I cant post in theorycrafting, but in combat subter-vanish garrotes also don't show increased dmg in the weakaura I use to distinguish between ns/subter buffed rup/gar and non-buffed ones

#

thought it was just a wa bug and dismissed it as inconsequential months ago

mossy hearth Mar 26, 2017, 2:29 PM

#

im relatively (i think) sure its a wa bug

#

but im actually not sure

safe aspen Mar 26, 2017, 2:29 PM

#

ye

#

if I do 2 garrotes in a row during subterfuge it shows as increased dmg

#

I haven't actually compared the damage numbers because I thought it was just a visual bug

#

and with ns it always shows as buffed, used from stealth or from vanish

#

for both garrote and rup

#

so I guess it's possible that it's a bug with subter ingame

#

and simc is using it correctly

hallow gull Mar 26, 2017, 3:50 PM

#

Is there an APL I can use to sim DoS vs Frond with the shoulders? Neither one of the pinned ones seem to use DoS, the ones that Miie posted don't seem to work at all for me, tells me I'd do 280k dps or something completely wrong? I'm not quite savvy enough with simcraft to edit existing APLs to incorporate DoS

safe aspen Mar 26, 2017, 3:56 PM

#

actions.cds+=/use_item,slot=trinket2,if=energy.time_to_max>3.5&(!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled|(debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>3))&((equipped.144236&buff.master_assassins_initiative.remains>=3|cooldown.vanish.remains>=10)|!equipped.144236)

#

this is what I use for dos

#

with mantle

#

with dos as trinket 2 ofc

hallow gull Mar 26, 2017, 3:57 PM

#

so just add that to the APL under cds?

safe aspen Mar 26, 2017, 3:57 PM

#

yep

#

below the potions line

hallow gull Mar 26, 2017, 3:57 PM

#

thanks, i'll give that a shot

safe aspen Mar 26, 2017, 3:57 PM

#

might not be perfect but it's better than nothing 😄

hallow gull Mar 26, 2017, 4:02 PM

#

hmm using that my ilvl 900 frond out perofrms ilvl 900 DoS, using the shoulders, by about 4k. Does that seem realistic? I would have assumed DoS would be better when using the shoulders

safe aspen Mar 26, 2017, 4:03 PM

#

yep

hallow gull Mar 26, 2017, 4:03 PM

#

yep as in that seems right or yep as in DoS should be better? :d

safe aspen Mar 26, 2017, 4:03 PM

#

it seems right

#

of the same ilvl frond is better

#

afaik

hallow gull Mar 26, 2017, 4:04 PM

#

interesting, not what I was expecting at all

safe aspen Mar 26, 2017, 4:04 PM

#

frond has agi, dos has haste

#

personally I think the playstyle gets smoother without dos too

hallow gull Mar 26, 2017, 4:05 PM

#

yea I know, and I'm the first to point out the value of the agi on frond when people say its bad, but I thought the shoulders would make DoS much better due to the 100% crit, basically pretending to be warriors for whom its very strong

safe aspen Mar 26, 2017, 4:06 PM

#

I think the shoulders do increase the value of dos

red flower Mar 26, 2017, 6:14 PM

#

Draught has its fights where it's better than frond by far , for me this was chromatic, trilliax, krosus, even scorpion when used with shoulders and vanish in. Rudy phase can't remember others right now on my phone you can check all my pug logs as they are not private @ slicksalo on eu draenor 👍

wraith shard Mar 26, 2017, 6:56 PM

#

if I simc for stats weight with item A, do I need to simc stats weight again with item B to compare or do I use the weights found at the first simc to compare the items ?

lusty hazel Mar 26, 2017, 8:09 PM

#

Usually it's pretty safe to compare items with your current stat weights, and then just redo the weights if you change items for future comparisons.

cerulean junco Mar 27, 2017, 7:17 AM

#

will there be simulations with the new traits ready before or shortly after 7.2 is live?

split sorrel Mar 27, 2017, 7:21 AM

#

yes.

cerulean junco Mar 27, 2017, 7:23 AM

#

👌

blazing flame Mar 27, 2017, 7:45 AM

#

Still no APL to find the best dice Policy ? (I can't start working on it before 10 april)

bleak cobalt Mar 27, 2017, 7:47 AM

#

I believe in you and the other simmers Aethys, I give you all my energy.

bleak cobalt Mar 27, 2017, 8:03 AM

#

ptr.wowhead gives me the string artifact=43:0:0:0:0:323:3:324:3:325:3:326:3:327:3:328:3:329:3:330:3:331:3:332:1:333:1:334:1:335:1:337:1:346:1:347:1:1276:1:1384:1:1651:1 for my weapon, 1384:1 is the 20 point trait and 1651:1 is the new 10% dmg done trait. But i lose about 70k dps going from live to this, is the new flat dmg trait working ? Yes I just updated to the newest nightly before simming

#

this is as assa*

#

only asking this because I thought on the github I saw that new flat dmg trait being added, ignore me

wraith shard Mar 27, 2017, 12:21 PM

#

@Atheri#3503 ok thanks

zinc lagoon Mar 27, 2017, 4:37 PM

#

Hello, in simcraft my food buff is always seedbattered fish, is there a way I can change this?

dark obsidian Mar 27, 2017, 5:00 PM

#

Hey guys, how come I sim about 40k lower if I import my char from armory compared to using the simC addon? I use the mantle DoS APL for both sims and same gear

pine elk Mar 27, 2017, 5:28 PM

#

Fond sims roughly 2-3% higher then it performed for me

split sorrel Mar 27, 2017, 5:28 PM

#

no

#

your frond performed 2-3% less than what it performs in average

#

on the sample you're looking at

pine elk Mar 27, 2017, 5:29 PM

#

no, I physically used the POS in heroic and mythic and was on average doing 2-2.5 % dps while simming the same fights and performs higher, 4-6%

#

the live rate and sim rates need to be adjusted to have a proper value

split sorrel Mar 27, 2017, 5:30 PM

#

Then teach me 😃

pine elk Mar 27, 2017, 5:30 PM

#

I just have the data, not the solution

split sorrel Mar 27, 2017, 5:30 PM

#

I'm pretty sure you're comparing two different context

#

shows me the datas 😉

pine elk Mar 27, 2017, 5:31 PM

#

How do I upload combat logs w/o world of logs?

#

I'm running the sim real time while Im physiccally doin the same thing

#

that's alway where I'm drawing my difference from

small crystal Mar 27, 2017, 5:32 PM

#

Isn't that data already out there on warcraftlogs?

pine elk Mar 27, 2017, 5:33 PM

#

I've seen many results through WoL VS sims

#

I thiknk so, let me try and find it

shy robin Mar 27, 2017, 5:34 PM

#

can anyone help with sim's action.cooldown/use_item? im tryin to sim kiljaedens_burning_wish(not for rogue) and it wont show its dmg

#

i couldve swore it would show its dmg

#

and its no longer giving me an error

pine elk Mar 27, 2017, 5:34 PM

#

Its does, you have the latest version

shy robin Mar 27, 2017, 5:35 PM

#

yh nighty build as well as the recommended fury's APL from their discord

small crystal Mar 27, 2017, 5:35 PM

#

What data are you looking for though? The actual proc rate of the trinket?

shy robin Mar 27, 2017, 5:35 PM

#

its dmg. so im not sure if its been sim correctly

#

already added to the use_item as well trinket1

#

i believe i put it correctly. been tryin to do it myself before asking for help

split sorrel Mar 27, 2017, 5:46 PM

#

Sim Credit goes to Aethys#5243 on discord.

#

trust whatever u prefer between the red text and person who got credits

#

😃

pine elk Mar 27, 2017, 5:47 PM

#

got me

#

L2 read I guess is the moral of the story

#

What do you think of the Urn vs Fond for Static DPS gain? I'm resimming everything. Gonnd try fond some more on longer fights and see if it performs well

split sorrel Mar 27, 2017, 5:52 PM

#

it's more luck than fight length related 😉

pine elk Mar 27, 2017, 5:53 PM

#

dang, my RNG is a Gray Parse....

#

I haven't seen much data on Burning WIsh? Whats your thought on that trinket for Assination

regal agate Mar 27, 2017, 5:54 PM

#

you can sim it its implemented in simcraft 😃

pine elk Mar 27, 2017, 5:56 PM

#

I'm not talking sim, Im talking more if people have experience w/ it and have used it

#

Obviously its going to be more situational

#

I'll try and collect more data on Fond and have some more infor when I come back. Thanks for your time

late willow Mar 27, 2017, 6:23 PM

#

Ive been using it on nearly every fight in NH for 4-5 weeks. I can honestly say Its 2.5-6% of my damage most of the time. Ive had maybe 1 or 2 pulls out of 40 kills where it was less than that and I havent had any kills with it being higher than 6%

#

I still think the sim is a tiny bit high on % of damage for frond but thats just anecdotal evidence

lament cargo Mar 27, 2017, 7:51 PM

#

I got a question about CP overcap, if anyone can help me.

#

Icy-veins says that to Envenom at 4-5 or always at 5 CP makes little to no difference.

#

Should I always Envenom at 5 CP to get 10% SoT? Isn't a DPS loss to Mutilate at 4 CP to get only 1 CP?

obsidian orchid Mar 27, 2017, 8:06 PM

#

when will simulation craft implement the Sin changes?

split sorrel Mar 27, 2017, 8:09 PM

#

today

lament cargo Mar 27, 2017, 8:14 PM

#

Did I ask in the wrong channel? Where should I ask those stuff?

muted stump Mar 27, 2017, 8:14 PM

#

@lament cargo you will envenom at 4 or 5, depending on CPs. if you're at 4 CP, and you can reapply garrote, you can then use 5 CP

#

and yes

#

#228879234540503040 would work

lament cargo Mar 27, 2017, 8:14 PM

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Okay, thanks

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^^

crude rune Mar 27, 2017, 9:22 PM

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any sims for the new patch?

bleak sky Mar 27, 2017, 9:22 PM

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Ask in general

tepid pulsar Mar 28, 2017, 12:23 AM

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simcraft nightly isnt out yet

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warlock and mage were still adding stuff an hour ago

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didnt see that was 3 hours ago he asked, my bad

lime fox Mar 28, 2017, 7:34 AM

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Anyone taken a loot at how valuable the new sub golden trait it?

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vs other valuable traits(nb dmg, evis, SoD, ES?)

late willow Mar 28, 2017, 4:10 PM

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Newest 7.2 nightly still doesnt have Poison bomb procing or seem to have the artifact talent for KB CDR.

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or garrote damage increase from artifact talent

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 4:25 PM

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release is coming soon

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😃

late willow Mar 28, 2017, 4:28 PM

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❤ aethys. Wasnt sure if it was supposed to be included as a fix when not using PTR or when the spell data dump happened.

bleak sky Mar 28, 2017, 4:31 PM

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Thanks Aethys

eternal patio Mar 28, 2017, 4:39 PM

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@split sorrel The new nightly build (released 18:14) got all the 7.2 updates, right?

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 4:54 PM

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no.

mortal bison Mar 28, 2017, 4:55 PM

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Outlaw viable now for raiding?

eternal patio Mar 28, 2017, 4:56 PM

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Alright, thanks.

merry pike Mar 28, 2017, 4:57 PM

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hi on the Outlaw APL if the prepull rtb gets tb or any +3 it just says roll_the_bones and you are unable to see what buffs it is. However if it rerolls again the buffs will be listed out along with roll_the_bones was wondering down the line if its possible to get the buffs listed on the first successful rtb as well! would be nice 😃

vague torrent Mar 28, 2017, 5:13 PM

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hey i noticed on my assassination sim its casting vanish on pull, is that correct? or am i reading it wrong

frosty shell Mar 28, 2017, 5:18 PM

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same for me http://i.imgur.com/DKbOBWx.png

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 5:26 PM

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@merry pike open an issue pls

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@vague torrent wait 7.2 stuff

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same for @frosty shell

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also I have an APL update in my bag

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and, I'm going to play Assassination starting tomorrow, except if some crazy things happens to subtlety.

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so expect more Assassination updates 😃

frosty shell Mar 28, 2017, 5:27 PM

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awesome

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thanks for the info

gleaming raft Mar 28, 2017, 5:37 PM

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Subterge still viable with legendary shoulder yet?

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after nerf

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 5:39 PM

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In Assa ? I doubt

hard hull Mar 28, 2017, 5:40 PM

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Is the APL updated for sin? Sorry if repeat

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 5:42 PM

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📎 unknown.png

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I think I did something wrong

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lmao

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or Assa is going to crush any1

sterile gale Mar 28, 2017, 5:42 PM

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o.O

rich jetty Mar 28, 2017, 5:42 PM

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have people figured out what the priority on the new sub traits are ?

hard hull Mar 28, 2017, 5:43 PM

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Why is fok so high

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 5:43 PM

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oh

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I'm so dumb gosh

split narwhal Mar 28, 2017, 5:43 PM

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Guessing that is an aoe fight?

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 5:44 PM

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yeah -_-

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📎 unknown.png

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someone forgot to put a - 🤔

frigid urchin Mar 28, 2017, 5:48 PM

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shame on you my dear

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 5:50 PM

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📎 unknown.png

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better 😎

sacred grove Mar 28, 2017, 5:51 PM

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so we going for new traits on release or old ones?

bleak sky Mar 28, 2017, 5:52 PM

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So some interesting math here. Thanks to @late willow for making me explore this line of thought.

Since Mastery will boost Env damage but not Bleed damage eventually we will reach a point where A NS Env will be superior to a NS rupture.

At 170% Mastery
Nightstalker Mantled Env
Mantle (5cp NS Env 3475% AP + 4cp env 1853.3% AP 4cp Env 1853.3% AP )+ 5cp Rup 3093.75% AP = 10275.3% AP
Nightstalker Mantled Rupture
Mantle (5cp NS Rup 5197.5%AP + 4cp Env 1853.3% + 4cp Env 1853.3% AP) + 5cp Env 1447.9% AP = 10352% AP

At 180% Mastery
Nightstalker Mantled Env
Mantle (5cp NS Env 3603.6% AP + 4cp env 1992% AP 4cp Env 1922% AP )+ 5cp Rup 3093.75% AP = 10681.35% AP
Nightstalker Mantled Rupture
Mantle (5cp NS Rup 5197.5%AP + 4cp Env 1992% + 4cp Env 1992% AP) + 5cp Env 1501.5% AP = 10683% AP

At 190% Mastery
Nightstalker Mantled Env
Mantle (5cp NS Env 3732.3% AP + 4cp env 1990.6% AP 4cp Env 1990.6% AP )+ 5cp Rup 3093.75% AP = 10807.2% AP
Nightstalker Mantled Rupture
Mantle (5cp NS Rup 5197.5%AP + 4cp Env 1990.6% + 4cp Env 1990.6% AP) + 5cp Env 1555% AP = 10733.2% AP

Above 180% Mastery with 25% crit a NS env is better than a NS rupture.
The higher your crit the more mastery you will need for a NS env to beat a NS rupture.

We also have to consider that using 3 env during the mantle period requires 10 more energy than 2 env and a rupture.
Additionally, when we reach the point that we are 4/4 Toxic Blades but still 3/4 Gushing wounds the Mastery required for a NS env to overtake a NS rupture will be less.

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 5:55 PM

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post in #tc-updates

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or it'll probably be lost here

bleak sky Mar 28, 2017, 5:55 PM

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I don't have post privs. Thanks!

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 5:55 PM

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you can now

pastel mango Mar 28, 2017, 6:15 PM

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@bleak sky I think it would be worth to take Blood of the Assassinated into account

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eventually it could proc or be already active at the moment of that decision, am I right?

short harbor Mar 28, 2017, 6:17 PM

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yep definitely @pastel mango

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Even more true if you are running Mantle

bleak sky Mar 28, 2017, 6:35 PM

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BoTA is a 30% proc chance right?

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I can account for that. I also need to account for the fact that even if we only used env during mantle rupture would be up anyway and benifiting from mantle.

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There are other complex factors I have to add in also. I'll do some sims later when we get a 7.2 feature complete version.

pastel mango Mar 28, 2017, 6:47 PM

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thats cool, thanks for sharing this. I think BoTA is 35% proc chance

gritty galleon Mar 28, 2017, 7:44 PM

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what second tier talent sub will use now with anticipation nerf/fix?

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Anyone?

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 7:49 PM

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DS

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for every1

mossy loom Mar 28, 2017, 7:50 PM

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Damn. I liked vigor 😦

terse hatch Mar 28, 2017, 7:52 PM

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So nightstalker/ds?

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Rather then subtrefuge/vigor

vivid lagoon Mar 28, 2017, 7:56 PM

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but is anticipation in mass aoe better?

gaunt tinsel Mar 28, 2017, 7:57 PM

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Thats going to be interesting to get used to

gleaming raft Mar 28, 2017, 7:57 PM

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vigor changed?

stiff arch Mar 28, 2017, 7:57 PM

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I would assume Anticipation in mass aoe, otherwise you would be wasting cp

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 7:59 PM

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I was talking about Sub

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since Ant is not used as Assa

gleaming raft Mar 28, 2017, 8:00 PM

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Use vigor on Assa?

split sorrel Mar 28, 2017, 8:00 PM

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but in 7.2, there will not be any sub anymore

ruby narwhal Mar 28, 2017, 8:01 PM

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new sims for rogues out? Sorry if it's been asked already

mossy loom Mar 28, 2017, 8:01 PM

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Oh thank god. I didn't like DS with sin

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Felt too slow

vivid lagoon Mar 28, 2017, 8:01 PM

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do u think sub will be dead? there is no way i will play assa <_>

quartz halo Mar 28, 2017, 8:06 PM

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well they nurfed alot of the bugs that made sub good