Nice, thank you^^
#tc-research
rotund oak
rotund oak
Another question, is there a command like exsanguinated for subterfuge garrote?
merry cloud
I summon @split sorrel for that question
onyx monolith
would anyone be able to spend 5 min helping me swapping in/out a few items on simcraft please?
just had a few questions quick
odd sedge
use the guide on #rules-and-guides
odd sedge
I´m pretty sure if you read this article that is in #rules-and-guides : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pW5mWY9nkfWoRCOHfoXqeeGb8s-jMoSVy-g8uveUv4c/edit you will have your answer
regal agate
go to wowhead(of the item)-> copy id(s) from url-> paste them in your input string
open sable
is there an easy way to sim my dps with different relics? is there a guide to do that?
rotund oak
the guide 2 comments above, or addon simbuilder
open sable
thanks
split sorrel
no @rotund oak but you can check the pmultiplier
like feral do
it'll work
@merry cloud
merry cloud
?
merry cloud
Another question, is there a command like exsanguinated for subterfuge garrote?
merry cloud
@rotund oak the answer is above
rotund oak
yes, thanks
deft maple
Hey @reef canyon , hope you ahvent' been asked a million times, but I tried doing the Machine learning and it's definatley improved my Trinket rankings, however it's showing Convergence of Fates as being a pretty big DPS loss over current Trinket but when I sim it's almost 30k boost. Does it not take into accoutn Legendaries I assume? Or am I missing something to get the rankings updated more? I saw something in the chat history where there might be something to make it sim through things somehow?
warm isle
hey guys, quick question - when i sim myself, what does that dps number actually mean? is it the dps im supposed to be able to maintain with the gear im simming or what im supposed to push with cds/everything? would love some light shed on this for someone who isn't as knowledgeable as she'd like to be 😛
buoyant parcel
when playing perfectly, on average youll do that much with your gear
dusty tartan
!trinkets
warm isle
awesome, thank you! @buoyant parcel
deft maple
@warm isle technically it's what you should expect roughly for a 5 minute target dummy fight. By default it includes hero / pots / flasking. Those options can be tweaked thou.
warm isle
gotcha, that sheds some more light on it. tyvm! @deft maple
reef canyon
@deft maple It does take into account legendaries. Want to dm me a link to your custom weights (click the view/edit button above the menu where they are listed and link me to that page). Also, are you doing Best in Bags, or a regular gear ranking list when you look at CoF?
reef canyon
Ok, figured it out. I think other people have run into this too. On AMR - when you use the default stat weights (Even if you switch the defaults to machine learning) - it is still based on only one specific setup. It isn't custom to YOU. So you get recommendations based on a non-tailored setup. Then when you sim something, it sims it exactly to you. So the results don't match. But if you run a custom gearing strategy first, and then use THAT to rank gear, the lists should match what your sims say*
*The asterisk is becacuse there's still a margin of error on sims.
fresh gyro
In simcraft for my time spent I have waiting as 118.5s, I've done a few other sims on other toons like a ret pally and my Enh Shaman but their wait times are like 5 or 11 secs
Only been playing Rogue for about a week so not sure if this is true or total BS
fading spear
Is there something wrong with my sims? I got an 890 momento and its simming about 10-12k higher than my 880 draught, but the !trinkets list seems to show something very different to that
mellow elbow
DoS isn't simming correctly I believe
fading spear
undervalued or over?
fading spear
yea but its hard to tell if that beats the 1870 agi + buffs from 890 angerboda, especially considering how worthless haste is.. and i have too much haste without draught anyways
reef canyon
@fading spear You can sim DoS on AMR, it's working correctly. We have it being used special in several APLs too. What spec is this for? I can check on our APLs for that. Also, has anyone mentioned to a simc dev that it isn't working? They usually update things pretty well.
fading spear
thanks, ill try that out, im playing assassin currently
reef canyon
yeah, we have DoS coded special in the assn rotation 😃
stark sentinel
for me DoS is simmung lower than a agi/mastery stat stick (urn/guarm) with simcraft, but on amr is like a 50k boost or something, guess its a bit overrated
fading spear
huh, AMR simulator is telling me the 890 angerboda is simming higher than draught AS WELL lol
wondering why !trinket list puts angerboda so low though..
reef canyon
oh, one thing to note!
if you are using the ursoc script, it defaults to a short fight duration. But in order to really make use of getting a 4th vendetta over a 3rd, the fight has to be 244 seconds long. If you override the duraction (in more options), that might affect how the trinket sims turn out.
Also @fading spear if you give me your character name and realm, I can run a special trinket report and link it to you. Do some double checking.
fading spear
Its Neuroxic - Zul'Jin , and thank you I appreciate that immensely
changing the fight length did actually change which trinket was ahead for me
reef canyon
(i might have had different potion settings than you, so our dps might be different)
fading spear
yea, i got similar results after changing a few things, thanks so much zooper 😃
reef canyon
@stark sentinel the trinket really is good. But 50k makes me want to double check on that. Mind sharing your character name and realm so I can run a test?
anytime!
stark sentinel
Dwuu on Blackmoore eu
if i change my 890 eye of guarm (agi/mastery) vs 895 DoS i get like 40-50k more
reef canyon
yeah, i'm seeing a 40k boost too.
fading spear
still curious where the difference in simc vs. amr is coming from... maybe its just based on fight length?
stark sentinel
if i make the same sim with simcraft its -10k and on amr +40k , just wondering about this bif difference
i did both with 300 sec
reef canyon
I think simc and AMR are close when you match everything up. Matching them is actually not a trivial task.
Oh, as for that tirnket, i think someone said it wasn't working in SimC. I don't know anything about that though. Let me ping one of the simc people to see if it's been reported and if there is a bug (or not)
dense seal
!trinkets
late lion
hey guys ive got a question, i have 134/ mastery, 32% crit and 2% vers. i have a head in my bag, it would give me + 176 agi and 898 vers (+2%) , but - 841 mastery (8%). sry 4 my bad english
reef canyon
@stark sentinel So that trinket really IS good. But I will do more tests against actual WCL logs to try and triple confirm it's working correctly. As far as I can tell, it is. But I do like to look into outliers just to really make sure 😃
stark sentinel
thanks for ur effort
bleak sky
@stark sentinel because the simc apl just uses it on cd without setting up for it first
You need to modify it and then you'll see similar increases
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=draught_of_souls,if=equipped.140808&energy.deficit>=80&(talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>3|!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled)
deft maple
@stark sentinel also did you install the Nightly Build of Simc? or just the regular download on the page?
bleak sky
@fading spear It wins. Easily. Esp if you have shoulders. I'm getting 2.5mil burst on M Krosus
fading spear
i wish i had shoulders 😛
bleak sky
well maybe more like 2.2 or 2.3m
stark sentinel
nightly build, and the apl pinned on chan
deft maple
damn Anare, what gives that burst like that?
bleak sky
You'll need the line above for optimal draught usage still. The pinned build is for mantle only.
Mantle + DoS using Weak's opener
deft maple
ahhh
stark sentinel
will try
bleak sky
this is with 880 version. If I had 925 version that war got (rightly so) I'd be breaking 2.5mil easy
stark sentinel
ok now i get 15k more with DoS with ur fix
quaint forum
im looking for information on subterfuge meta with garrote opener?
anyone have that
bleak sky
I believe it is basically garrote>mut>rupture>garrote>mut>envenom
treat vanished garrotes as you would a nightstalker rupture
let it tick for full duration
regal trout
my kiljaedens is simming higher than my DoS but ingame i feel like im doing less single target damage
is there something going on with DoS sims?
bleak sky
Yes
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=draught_of_souls,if=equipped.140808&energy.deficit>=80&(talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>3|!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled)
use that
can we pin that?
bleak sky
it's the best usage with or w/o mantle
regal trout
Is it effected by vendetta do you know?
bleak sky
nope
wind otter
the surge of toxins part in that line doesnt matter
regal trout
worth delaying vendetta ?
wind otter
you can also use >=0.1
as SoT snapshots on AP
if you dont do AAs, AP doesnt refresh->SoT doesnt matter for DoS
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=draught_of_souls,if=equipped.140808&energy.deficit>=80&(talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>=1|!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled) should be the same
regal trout
where do i insert this code?
wind otter
like I said, if you do not use AAs during DoS, AP doesnt refresh so the SoT effect doesnt drop
bleak sky
Then it's a simc bug as those change result in a 2k dps loss
if what you say is correct
wind otter
you can test it yourself ingame, that's what most of the time, it doesnt matter if you miss the SoT window by some tenths of seconds
as if there is no AP refresh, you still get the damage bonus of AP
just create a WA for AP or look at the looltip after SoT drops
I can link screenshots if you want me to
strong rune
logs would be good
wind otter
I can do some finishers after stopping attacks and dropping SoT
then do some without the SoT bonus
is that enough?
needed to delete my combatlog first, I'm on it
can you see the % of AP in the logs?
if I cancel AP right after a refresh during SoT, it remains the stronger version for the entire duration of AP
novel lava
but you do auto attack during DoS
at least you used to a week ago
i don't have one but i've only seen logs
wind otter
you are right, you do AA during DoS
anyways, here is a short log to prove the snapshotting of SoT/AP https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BCzL32JjMaKG7Yr6/#view=analytical&type=damage-done&source=4
what I did is stack Ap to 5, get the SoT bonus rolling, then canceled AP on myself and kept the bonus up for the full duration of AP - until AP dropped
bleak sky
After a lot of napkiin math you will basically want to use draught on cd. It depends on fight length.
wind otter
@bleak sky you were right with the >3s for the DoS simc line, I assumed there were no AAs during the use, but I was corrected
bleak sky
No worries.
wind otter
still, the snapshotting mechanic leads to watching the AA swingtimer instead of finishing right at the end of SoT - if you really want to maximize your damage
odd sedge
if you´re watching your swingtimer you´re really overthinking assassination imo
wind otter
I agree, what really matters is that you don't have to worry if you miss the SoT window with your envenom by a few 10s of seconds as chances are good that AP hasn't been refreshed yet
strong rune
if you're not watching your swingtimer, you're not playing optimally :troll:
(extra true for sub)
unreal river
Hi, does anyone here happen to have an apl for rtb to fish for TB or 3+ buffs?
strong rune
that's what the default does
unreal river
ah
eager ingot
how do i add "actions.cds+=/use_item,name=draught_of_souls,if=equipped.140808&energy.deficit>=80" and the other one to simcraft?
unreal river
thanks
strong rune
submit a ticket, aethys or I will add it to the C++ default APL generator
eager ingot
sorry no, how do i add these lines to the simcraft version on my pc? i just got the trinket and have a hard time simming it. what files do i have to manipulate?
eager ingot
yea, but in which file? 😄
crimson hinge
i hate mobile----just import your armory, replace trinket1 or 2 line
eager ingot
i'm using the simcraft addon, so that's not the problem. according to some other user a few posts above, simcraft doesn't setup for draught perfectly. like not refreshing surge of toxins. and that has to be edited in. but i have no idea how to
editing the apl basically
crimson hinge
i'm telling you to use the armory import
and then look at the listed APL, replacing a line
eager ingot
ah, i got it now. thanks
pine parrot
hi. I want to master Sub PvP. How do i configure SimC for a pvp setting?
maiden cargo
its not relevant for pvp
pvp uses preset stat templates and the fights are totally different
cc has a value
granite gust
@wind otter I've had times where the 10% sot buff has been snapshotted by ap for about 6s+ made a neat weakaura that tracks the percentage of AP and the sot buff.
granite gust
Dos doesn't break stealth with subterfuge in sub spec right ?
bleak sky
in sin
granite gust
With subterfuge ?
bleak sky
yes
bleak sky
I set up a 5cp envenom before hand if I'm using it properly then vanish
no because of vanish
granite gust
Damn that'd make for a nasty burst opener
bleak sky
if I 5cp envenom vanish and use DoS stealth doesn't break
granite gust
Have logs ?
bleak sky
Not yet I just tested in a random heroic. I'll do it on M krosus tonight
granite gust
Dank.
pulsar nymph
you guys know if im pooling at 4cp should one garrote to 5cp then pool or envenom at 4 ?
hard kettle
@bleak sky does the vanish thing then affect the snapshotting and lead to DoS hitting 50% more dmg
night tinsel
sage pewter
simc still not fixed for frond?
strong rune
Heya folks, I've got a nice block of time tonight to work on APL modifications.
Because I've seen a ton of them over the last few days, it's hard to put them all together.
If you have an APL modification for ANY of our three specs that you think is a DPS gain, PLEASE file a "github issue" and I'll take a look.
Also, please tag it "Rogue"
I'll be working through the backlog in reverse chronological order.
hazy steeple
As Sin, I only have 97% mastery, I just got a ring that gives me 1385 Stam, 768 Haste and 1677 mastery that is supposedly not an upgrade over 1450 stam, 1584 crit, 936 mastery
Is that right? Or should I be stacking mastery until I hit that 110% mark
bleak sky
So subterfuge no longer appears to give me 3 extra secs of 100% crit on live
sterile jolt
well, that sucks
bleak sky
the DoS trick though is 100% confirmed to not break stealth and I have logs
so I can still get 9 sec of 100% crit with it
sterile jolt
that'll be fixed within a week or so I imagine
strong rune
Hotfixed subterfuge?
bleak sky
appears so
strong rune
Wasn't in the notes, but.. then again, most things aren't.
Sigh.
#BlizzardCommunication.
bleak sky
I immediately start counting down from 6 secs
sterile jolt
Bit sad about the subterfuge hotfix, that brings the mantle back to average levels of goodness?
strong rune
It's a totally understandable bugfix.
But I wish they'd at least mention when they make that sort of call
sterile jolt
I don't think it was well known enough for it to go into patch notes tbh
Its a few weeks old and only applicable to those with the leggo
strong rune
"Mantle of the master assassin is no longer affected by Subterfuge" would have been like, one line
sterile jolt
which is a new leggo
Yeah, but consider if they make 100 bug fixes along those lines
strong rune
they included an obscure line for priest insanity resetting to zero on unequip of a necklace
sterile jolt
Yeah, fair call
strong rune
somehow, that makes the cut, but this one doesn't? 😄 just inconsistent
but that's par for the course
sterile jolt
Anyway, I'm finding that my cloak is simming higher than bracers, anyone care to comment?
Has anyone tried?
This is for ST
wise mural
hey ppl, anybody has a APL for correct simm of draught of souls? right now its sims lower than a 870 ursoc trinket (with socket ) and 865 EoC
sterile jolt
admittedly, using slightly adjusted APL to wait for vendetta unelss vend is > 10s away (my vend is 65s CD)
Nimhz, is your trinket actually being used/
like, is the APL your using proc it?
wise mural
on the pie shows 7.3% of dmg
sterile jolt
so its being used
sterile jolt
That sounds pretty similar to the amount of dmg it gives on WCL though
wise mural
which is when energy starved i assume?
sterile jolt
There's a few things i've heard mention regarding how to use it, but I imagine the bulk of the dps increase is being energy starved, having AP up to 5 stacks, and I've heard good results by combinging it with kingsbane
wise mural
in what way does kb affect dos tho
sterile jolt
But besides having AP up and not capping energy, I reckon the other stuff won't be as big a contributor?
wise mural
you wouldn't be able to apply poisons while fel raging for 3 secs
so that seems like a dps loss
sterile jolt
Hmm I was under the impression that each attack had a chance to proc poison
I guess I'm wrong
wise mural
each attack of dos?
sterile jolt
Just something I heard in here floating around
Yeah, could be just the autoattacks during the attack
sterile jolt
interesting that its simming that low
can you paste in the item line, i'll plug it into mine
sterile jolt
where it says trinket1 (or trinket2) with the item name
wise mural
head=,id=140866,bonus_id=3516/1487/1813
neck=,id=140894,enchant_id=5439,bonus_id=3444/1482/1813
shoulder=,id=140864,bonus_id=3516/1808/1487/1813,gem_id=130222
back=,id=138371,enchant_id=5435,bonus_id=3516/1487/1813
chest=,id=138326,bonus_id=3516/1808/1497/3336,gem_id=130222
wrist=,id=140889,bonus_id=3514/1472/1813
hands=,id=134444,bonus_id=3536/40/1557/3337
waist=,id=133976,bonus_id=3458/3455
legs=,id=140908,bonus_id=3516/1497/3336
feet=,id=142417,bonus_id=3468/1497/3336
finger1=,id=137533,enchant_id=5429,bonus_id=3535/42/1532/1813
finger2=,id=137049,enchant_id=5429,bonus_id=3458/3455,gem_id=130247
trinket1=,id=142167,bonus_id=3453/1477/3336
trinket2=,id=140808,bonus_id=3515/1477/1813
main_hand=,id=128870,bonus_id=741,relic_id=3536:1552:3337/3516:1487:1813/1805:1517:3337,gem_id=137463/140816/139260/0
off_hand=,id=128869,relic_id=0/0,gem_id=0/0/0/0
you mean that?
sterile jolt
good enough
wise mural
:0
sterile jolt
So i jsut made a new bit of apl for draught
instead of: actions.cds+=/use_item,slot=trinket2,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=20|debuff.vendetta.up
try: actions.cds+=/use_item,slot=trinket2,if=target.time_to_die<=20|energy.deficit>=80
its nothing special, but i'm lazy
wise mural
right, where and how do i swap that
sterile jolt
that gave me an extra 20k
well look for the first line i mentioned, and replace it with the second line i mentioned
wise mural
what tab do i go to i mean
sterile jolt
scroll up under # Cooldowns
do you see a line that starts with actions.cds+=/use_item,slot=trinket2?
essentially, thats the line that tells simc when it should use the trinket
wise mural
i can see that on the results page
sterile jolt
nah, you want it on the generate page
the one with the text
try ctrl+f (search) for use_item
wise mural
so, on the generate page this is all i got
ogue="Soul2"
level=110
race=undead
region=us
server=ragnaros
role=
professions=engineering=778/inscription=746
talents=1133111
spec=assassination
artifact=43:0:0:0:0:323:3:324:3:325:3:326:3:327:3:328:3:329:3:330:3:331:3:332:1:333:1:334:1:335:1:337:1:346:1:347:1:1276:1:1384:18
head=,id=140866,bonus_id=3516/1487/1813
neck=,id=140894,enchant_id=5439,bonus_id=3444/1482/1813
shoulder=,id=140864,bonus_id=3516/1808/1487/1813,gem_id=130222
back=,id=138371,enchant_id=5435,bonus_id=3516/1487/1813
chest=,id=138326,bonus_id=3516/1808/1497/3336,gem_id=130222
wrist=,id=140889,bonus_id=3514/1472/1813
hands=,id=134444,bonus_id=3536/40/1557/3337
waist=,id=133976,bonus_id=3458/3455
legs=,id=140908,bonus_id=3516/1497/3336
feet=,id=142417,bonus_id=3468/1497/3336
finger1=,id=137533,enchant_id=5429,bonus_id=3535/42/1532/1813
finger2=,id=137049,enchant_id=5429,bonus_id=3458/3455,gem_id=130247
trinket1=,id=142167,bonus_id=3453/1477/3336
trinket2=,id=140808,bonus_id=3515/1477/1813
main_hand=,id=128870,bonus_id=741,relic_id=3536:1552:3337/3516:1487:1813/1805:1517:3337,gem_id=137463/140816/139260/0
off_hand=,id=128869,relic_id=0/0,gem_id=0/0/0/0
sterile jolt
i guess simc automatically generates the APL (the instructions) if you don't include em
sterile jolt
mines got a few tweaks that work specifically for me, better bet
go to the import page
click rogue/t19/then rogue_assisantion_t19M_NH
thats the default APL with M NH gear included
wise mural
hmmm im siming again
sterile jolt
What did you change from the import?
wise mural
the line you gave me
i mean i just copied the cooldowns and swaped the line for the trinket
for what you gave me
and clearly didn't work
LOL
sterile jolt
yeah was gonna say
replace the items list with your items
don't worry about putting the line i gave you in
at the top, replace the default first section with your first section
bleak sky
Can anyone confim the subterfuge + mantle hotfix?
strong rune
I'm logging in to test it now, Anare.
Post-stealth I'm getting 6s of uptime on Mantle, not the 9 I used to get.. so I guess that's confirmation.
merry cloud
Wasn't it 9 for vanish?
round canyon
yeah it was 9 for vanish
strong rune
Sec, retesting.
current test: you get the 3s during mantle, then 6s afterwards
so I don't think it's been fixed yet?
it's definitely 6 on the opener
sorry, should read "you get the 3s during vanish"
maiden cargo
Mantle Sub is not a bug because sub considers u stealth for 3 seconds
torn dome
Ye dont think there was any hotfix on subter. Itd also "fix" mounting in stealth, archeology in stealth etc
strong rune
no worries
bleak sky
You have to break it with the vanish
but DoS isn't breaking stealth
so you get 9 seconds either method
strong rune
i don't have a DoS to tset with 😦
bleak sky
I have logs
granite gust
You tired it again anare ?
granite gust
Can u link me logs
muted compass
thoughts?
i do have leg boots and 3 MA relics, dont know if i should swap oine out for the rupt dmg one
reef canyon
@fading spear @stark sentinel Regaurding DoS, the main SimC dev isn't aware of it not working in SimC and he just checked on it for me. Our best guess is that you added the trinket in the interface, but maybe didn't add the 'on use' action to the rotation. If you don't mind, let me know if you did/didn't do that, and what the results are/were.
(sorry, follow up from a convo we had this afternoon. bringing it back up to update you)
torn dome
Ye my apl has no dos use. Ill add it this weekend
fading spear
it is definitely being used, i can see it on the dmg list
bleak sky
It IS being used
fading spear
I did add the line Anare gave earlier and that def gave me a dmg boost
bleak sky
By default Simc will use onuse trinkets on cooldown
strong rune
you don't want to use draught on CD
bleak sky
you have to optimize DoS usage
strong rune
^^^^
fading spear
but after adding that line simc is NOW telling me that my 880 dos and 890 angerboda are just about neck and neck, vs. AMR sim which says DoS is about 10k ahead
Either which way im still wondering if the !Trinkets list is undervaluing angerboda or sims are overevaluating?
torn dome
Theres no way dos is 50k dps above a mastery stick like was pointed out earlier
granite gust
My 890 stat stic mastery sims under a 875 fond
torn dome
Equal ilvl mastery stick is really close to dos with no mantl
And in general memento isnt too good for sin unless you know people die regularly on prog
fading spear
Well i mean, i can look really good on our wipes and then on the kill attempt ill just say bad rng
pine parrot
hey can someone help me with SimC? How do i configure a sim for pvp Sub? /w me
reef canyon
@torn dome Most people got a smaller increase, but dwuu got a really big one on AMR for that trinket. He has the mantle. What else would I look for that might be amplifying it? (Sorry, not a rogue expert, just a sim expert)
here's the rotation we're using, optimized for it http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/rotation/amrrogueassassinationdefault?spec=RogueAssassination&version=7_1_5_23420&report=a68c8e6a98ea4c23b22c973f6e7b8991
torn dome
Any player and target modifier exceot vendetta
reef canyon
I don't know if you have the time, or are interested - but if you are, I can link you the sims with and without it, see if we find anything wrong in AMR?
our rogue tc'er is asleep 😦
torn dome
Well Im sitting in class and will be home later in the evening
reef canyon
I'll be going to sleep in a couple hours. I'll leave you the links - ping me if you see anything and I'll catch up in the morning. Otherwise, I can work with Swol tomorrow to go over this specific case.
bleak sky
I'll take a look also
reef canyon
ty ❤
reef canyon
it's a very strong trinket, however, that is a really big increase, I agree.
reef canyon
most people see a 10k increase, this one, was sky high.
strong gorge
It's almost like ~1k haste = 2k agi+1k mastery
oh wait I got confused
Or no I didn't
It's so weird when both are named the same :D
reef canyon
what 2 things are named the same?
strong gorge
The two sims
reef canyon
oh, both reports?
sorry!! let me see if i can update them.
if you refresh, not sure if the names updated
strong gorge
Mh no, but it's fine
reef canyon
i will remember that next time tho 😉
strong gorge
But I mean look at this. The Fe-Crazed Rage proc is 6.9% of dps. So that's ~54.4k dps. The difference of the reports is 47.7k. Which means 1.9k agi + 1.1k mastery - 1.1k haste is only ~6k dps
Say mastery = haste (Very unlikely unless in specific gear sets) then 1 agi = 3 dps
Which I'd also say is very unlikely
So there's something else in play here, I'll check logs a bit
I kinda like the AMR logs. However it took a while to get used to them
(As in the event log)
Zoo, what could be the reason for potion of old war dealing more damage when you run DoS? Does that proc it?
torn dome
Event log is very nice indeed visually. And yes typical dps vslue for dos is around 50-70k depending on gear. As for equal M stick taht would also be 50k and above
Fug
strong gorge
hehe
reef canyon
hmm, ros, could be. let me remove it.
torn dome
Damn mobile
strong gorge
I can't find that it's being procced from it
reef canyon
as for the agi = 3dps, while simplified down, i do follow the logic. (not talking down, I know you know it's simplified! ah, sometimes i hate text lol)
ooooh weak, sorry, some of the fuctions might not be mobile friendly 😦 that's on our to-do
strong gorge
So I wonder where the extra damage comes from
reef canyon
right?
torn dome
I ment the accidental pin here >.>
reef canyon
this is a bit technical, but here's our wiki page for it, not sure if anything seems off to you? http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/mechanic/item/140808/draughtofsouls?spec=RogueAssassination&version=7_1_5_23420&report=a68c8e6a98ea4c23b22c973f6e7b8991
oh, i thought one of our dropdowns didn't work. I know on parts of the simulator setup page they don't work. Which is a terrible tease bc you can sim from your phone otherwise.
torn dome
Mobile works fine for me 👌
reef canyon
let me dig through some more logs on WCL too, see if i can find anything helpful
strong gorge
zoo, no I don't think anything is wrong with that
torn dome
Vendetta doesnt amp dos in amr, right?
strong gorge
It's weird that (even though it's RPPM 20 * (1+haste) ) that old war gets so many more procs with just 3% more haste
reef canyon
here's a log with DoS (rank 25 i think, so he'll have some lucky procs). DoS is 9% of his damage. What we don't know, is how much he gave up for the stat stick. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xBDb3qc1gTh7zVG4#fight=54&type=damage-done&source=319
strong gorge
12 procs vs 16, 10 vs 12
reef canyon
btw, rosvall - did you see that 'sim this character' link toward the bottom?
i use it allllll the time. but i'm usually troubleshooting sims ha. It might be something only I use
strong gorge
I see it now, does that just resim?
reef canyon
sort of - it pulls in everything about the CHARACTER, but not the sim setup.
we want to add a way to copy all of their setup stuff too
so it pulls in gear, talents, stat overrides if you did them. Everything on the LEFT side of the sim setup page. Nothing on the RIGHT side is pulled in (potions, flasks, etc)
strong gorge
ah
Just a question btw
I see it's 5.5k iterations
Are the spell breakdowns an average of those 5.5k, or is it a sample based on the event log?
reef canyon
the spell breakdown is the avg. The log is one random sim.
strong gorge
Yeah okey, good
The DoS log has double the subterfuge buff duration
And double the mantle uptime
I think that might be where the main dps difference comes from
reef canyon
ok, so does it have double subterfuge buff? let me take a look too.
strong gorge
yeah, 6x restealths in the log vs 3 in the other
It seems like your sprint coupled with DoS puts the user in stealth even for assassination
torn dome
Ye flickering shadoes triggering with dos
reef canyon
ok, this is good info.
you guys are the best, really, really, appreciate the help. sometimes I am at a loss for spec-specific stuff when swol is sleeping. And by law I have to let his sleep... srsly? 😉
strong gorge
If you fix that bug, because that doesn't represent live, I think you'll see a drop in DoS benefit with mantle
torn dome
In general with dos
reef canyon
We can change it right now probably, I just have to figure out what it is tied to. And then we can re-test.
strong gorge
Tbh, I would not autosprint with DoS as you've implemented it. But rather have the sub APL handle the sprint
reef canyon
I have to ask swol if he tested that, will pass that along in case he didn't yet.
strong gorge
But it kinda clutters up the sub APL a little bit. I know we don't really have a problem with such optimizations on simcraft. However AMR likes to keep it clean
reef canyon
ha, we try to keep it readable. Even then, they can still look a bit gnarly after you add all the conditionals.
ok, so, here's where you guys will come in handy again:
strong gorge
For a quick and dirty fix... I have no clue how it looks in your module for the DoS implementation. But I assume it checks for if it's a rogue using it, then sprint (and not just any class), at that line just add in a spec check as well and only use it if the rogue is sub
reef canyon
i am looking through some of swol's notes. And at one point, that trinket, if you channeled for 3 seconds, it DID let you re-enter stealth in game.
I don't know the date on that, it's on an online doc.
strong gorge
Yeah, but only as subletly. Sub has an artifact talent called flickering shadows
reef canyon
oh i see.
strong gorge
Activating Sprint and then taking no damage and dealing no damage for three seconds will activate Vanish without triggering its cooldown.
reef canyon
ok, so I wonder if he put that in, but didn't limit it to sub. ok, this is all coming together now.
and srsly, I appreciate the help, even though I'm not a rogue expert. I know some of these things are known to most people, but not me! ❤
strong gorge
Oh, no worries. It wasn't an obvious bug to track down.
(I still really dislike how it was implemented and that an item usage triggers a spell usage.. rather than a spell in the apl checks for a specific buff)
reef canyon
here's the wiki page on vanish, you can see the DoS mentions. so we just have to add a sub spec conditional and that should fix it. http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/mechanic/spell/vanish?spec=RogueAssassination&version=7_1_5_23420&report=a68c8e6a98ea4c23b22c973f6e7b8991
strong gorge
Oh.. hehe I think I see why it's implemented like that
reef canyon
oh, you mean in our APL you disliked how it was done?
strong gorge
Swol probably tried to do it from the APL at the start, but since your autoattacks are implemented to hit asap after, even 1 ms delay from the DoS being active to the sprint finding the buff would cause AMR to deal damage before the restealth occurs
And make it not work
Since well. DoS duration is 3 sec sharp. Sprint needs 3 sec sharp. And there's nothing there to prevent the rogue from dealing damage during those 3 seconds of sprint is up. Which means that if they are not initialized at the same time, then the rogue wouldn't get stealthed
Still Sub specific but we've found sprinting to gain vanish is a dps boost (even more so with mantle). Basically
Stop all attacks
Sprint
Gain restealth
Go on again
reef canyon
I see. Mind if I have swol ping you about some of the APL stuff tomorrow?
I don't want to get it lost in translation.
strong gorge
Though when you do it matters, like be low on dance charges, low on energy so you don't waste resources (except auto attacks and that 1-2 cp from Shadow techniques you lose since you're not autoattacking to further the counter)
Sure, anyone is free to. However it's weekend and.. I'm usually out and about. But I'll answer when I see it
strong rune
I'm around, he can ping me again too.
strong gorge
Either way I trust most people here can answer the questions. But if you want to say something to him that he'll understand then you can just say.
"Hey. DoS is making the sims use Sprint as all rogue specs. This causes the rogues to vanish, even if they are not subletly or do not have flickering shadows which causes all specs to restealth"
Or something like that
strong gorge
He did, but only during DoS, and apparently for all specs
reef canyon
@strong gorge yeah, I sent him a link to the 2 logs and pointed out the stealth count discrepancy too.
@split sorrel I take it, to your knowledge, DoS works in SimC right? (minus cinidaria stuff) Navv suggested I ping you on that specific thing, since there were questions about it.
split sorrel
I don't get your question, the trinket is ok (the model stuff), what isn't is, it is modeled the same way as sprint, so you cannot use both sprint and DoS at the same time while in game you can and it'll still proc Flickering Shadows. That's the only "issue" AFAIK. Altough, APL is probably not optimized in regards to DoS.
I don't get the link with Cinidaria ?
reef canyon
Got it. Sorry - the question was related to something ealier today when people were trying to figure out some DoS stuff. Some people (in several discords) said DoS wasn't working in SimC but I didn't see actual explanations. So I pinged navv, who said the basics are working (minus some cinidaria proc stuff), and that anything past that I should ping you.
I figure if anyone knows if DoS is working right, it would be navv or you 😃
Earlier today we saw a big disprepancy between AMR and SimC. It might be twofold. We found on AMR we had the restealth thing for assn (when it's limited to sub). And then maybe the APL for SimC isn't optimized for DoS yet (?)
strong gorge
I think what they might implied is that our APL's can have a lot of work done with them to improve DoS timing. Basically when generated it will use DoS as any other usable trinket, at pull. But being "afk" 3 seconds during your highest dps burst isn't really optimal. The DoS implementation in the engine however should be pretty accurate
reef canyon
Whenever I see people say something is broken, I try to send it to the right people. Either it is broken and someone doesn't know about it. Or it isn't broken and we can help them setup the sim right.
yeah, that makes sense rosvall!
split sorrel
My issue is
This sprint stuff isn't really 100% possible in raid
I mean, it's very hard to have those good timing during an encounter
strong rune
hard, but not impossible 😉
strong gorge
Sometimes it's a bit hard to have people understand difference between SimC (The engine) APL, and Sims (the results)
reef canyon
yeah, that is an interesting philisophical point. We try to make things reflect what is typical in a raid. But then we also bump up against the 'lol your apl sucks' feedback. So we try to do both now.
strong gorge
Aethys, with CoS I've found it's posible on most
reef canyon
we usually dig through logs to find out what is possible, what isn't, and how likely it is people can do it with practice
strong rune
i've started pre-cloaking for sprint too
strong gorge
However CoS CD is so high nowadays so can't do it on demand. T.ex Tich and so
reef canyon
but that gets a little 'feely' when we make a decision to add it. No hard line.
strong rune
how do you feel about swing-timer tracking for shadow techniques? 😉
considering adding that into the sub APL
strong gorge
It's already there.. no?
strong rune
not to my knowledge; we haven't put it in the APL
strong gorge
Aethys improved the support and added options to see time to best case proc and worst case proc
strong rune
the predicate is there
but it's not part of the default
i.e. you could use it as a conditional now
split sorrel
Well, I'm not against adding it to the APL, just that for me it's not my top prio. In the TODO to do proper tests would have to change how sprint_offensive is done, so instead of a 3s channeling it stops everything for 3s (why was it a channeling is because the later one wasn't easy to do but since DoS is here now ..). Then do tests from the APL.
strong gorge
Ah, well it's not like we haven't had APL's consider time to HaT before
strong rune
😄
split sorrel
Yes the sht expression thing exists and works, it's not in the APL tho.
reef canyon
headed to sleep in a bit, but thanks again @strong gorge @torn dome and @bleak sky
strong gorge
Np, hf, sleep well
full mountain
Is there a better APL than the standard simc assassination one that is baseline before i sim?
odd sedge
depends on your items
raw agate
how do i compare openers in simc? I've tried to make different sequences but they dont seem to work
viscid sonnet
wondering this too
odd sedge
you have to know how to use the programming language it uses
some simple stuff you can just look at the APL and make some changes
regal agate
if you want to change the apl this might help:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/ActionLists
lofty atlas
guys how do u play the 4set bonus and kingsbane?
refill energy/Cp (to 4+) before kingsbane then envenom like a pig, even on the last second of kingsbane?
or space envenom like we were use
or half half, spam like crazy but dont lose garrote/rupture
rare fog
For me I only wnvenom like a pig if I get a full 5 combo point to use so I get a long duration of SoT. Anything less I hold out and clip SoT
You should never lose rupture or garrote ever in a fight on your primary target
lofty atlas
coz my envenom goes very high with the 4set i got shitty gear but i saw 2.4million crit
rare fog
Yeah that's about right
lofty atlas
also do u delay kingsband 1/2 seconds to get more envenom?
do u go 4CP before pressing kingsbane? with the risk of losing combos
rare fog
I follow stjerns guide during burst if I'm getting poison bomb I burst around 1.25mil dps
For all those questions
lofty atlas
do u refresh rupture (even if its not needed) just to be sure u can spam more envenom
rare fog
No
If your doing all this in vendetta uptime you should wait to last second to refresh rupture
So you should be using envenom as filler
lofty atlas
stjern guide is outdated? it doesnt take 4set bonus in account i think
rare fog
It does
lofty atlas
ill check then
rare fog
I think it has been iodated
Updated
One of those links goes over it. I follow and pull pretty decent dps during raid I stay around 650k for the most oart
lofty atlas
coz when i check the top logs on warcraftlogs
other rogues place 2 envenom
during kingsbane
rare fog
2 is about rught
I can't say for sure I don't really count that I just watch my timers and ensure I refresh things when I need to
But if they are using only 2 envenoms then they are most likely clipping their SOT buff
lofty atlas
i think if i delay kingsband a bit, and build 4 combo to hit kingsbane i can place 4+ enevenom
but there is a risk to lose rupture at the end
steep cedar
hey guys has simcraft been updated to include the new opener if you got shoulders as sin? The one that uses subterfuge?
viscid sonnet
am i seeing it right that our APL vanishes at 00:00 into the fight
and then again 2 mins later?
from the sequence table:
0:00.000 cds H vanish Fluffy_Pillow 170.0/170: 100% energy | 0.0/5: 0% combo_points stealth, potion_of_the_old_war
where in the APL should i put a strict_sequence so that it does it in the opener and then proceeds with the rest of the APL?
torn dome
mantle apl is pinned here
Feel free to add anything. Ill most likely work on it tonight
loud tusk
Hello. Doesnt the exist a sim for best races? - I can't seem to find it
viscid sonnet
yea i see it, but this is for trying out subterfuge without mantle
and i want to get the opener in an exact sequence
(garrote mut garrote rupture)
i thought this was doable with the strict_sequence command but im unsure where to put it
torn dome
It is. I did this before I knew it even existed
viscid sonnet
with some tweaking the simulation actually ran but broke after 100 seconds
steep cedar
I suck at reafing the apl. Can someone tell me how thr simcraft opens witg subterfuge and mantle and how it treats vanish during the fight?
viscid sonnet
see weaks pinned post about that
theres an APL you can copy in that works for subt and mantle
steep cedar
Sry for all the typos im on my phone
I saw it but im not sure what opener it uses and whether its simming correctly due to that
torn dome
It is tailored specifically for mantle
steep cedar
I know that thanks. But that doesnt answer my question whatsoever
torn dome
Well it uses the opener that is optimal to what Ive found so far. And thus is simming just as I play myself
Whether that is the best way I cannot tell. Just the best result Ive gotten so far
steep cedar
Fine.But SPECIFICALLY what isthe opener. This has been my question all along.
torn dome
And the basic apl has no work done on mantle/subter so it opens up with vanish first global. And does not utilize stealth in any way
steep cedar
Thank you. This is what i wanted to know.
proud prairie
@torn dome assuming u have draught, when would it be used in this opener?
torn dome
I dont and I talked about it over #tc-updates
onyx solstice
guys when exactly should i use DoS as assassination i allways find it really hard... should i use it when im pooling energy or stacked with other buffs?
proud prairie
@torn dome Why is the envenom at 8s used immediately? You still have time on SoT, Envenom, you don't have the mantle buff, why not wait? Am I missing something?
torn dome
continue in #228878985210101760
viscid sonnet
Managed to get 4k more dps out of simming subterfuge (no mantle) by replacing the vanish with subterfuge action with this:
actions.cds+=/vanish,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&!buff.stealth.up&!buff.subterfuge.up&dot.garrote.remains<5
hacky as hell
still 8k dps behind NS
rotund oak
@viscid sonnet then you need something like actions.maintain+=/garrote,cycle_targets=1,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&(stealthed.rogue|buff.subterfuge.up) at the top of maintain, so it only uses Garrote with Vanish
didn't really cycle all that much though, and i didn't get the opener to work like i wanted
when i tried to do smth with subter
viscid sonnet
yea, i want it to recast garrote during the opener subterfuge buff
for maximum pandemic
modest ravine
how does simc model the outlaw hands legendary? does it uncast/cast blade flurry on cd?
rotund oak
i tried that, but it just used garrote, mut rupt, or garrote, rupt, mut instead
viscid sonnet
indeed
rotund oak
with a sequence it completly ignored mut, i tried to cast garrote,mut,garrote, then let the apl use rupt, but it only cast garrote twice then rupt
modest ravine
@split sorrel can you please explain how simc models the outlaw hands legendary?
fluid fulcrum
Can someone confirm that the most up to date simcraft is accurate give or take 40k for outlaw so i can screenshot it for my friend?
odd sedge
i dont get that subterfuge without mantle talk, 50% of rupture is better numbers than 125% of garrote unless i´m calculating this very badly
this for ST of course
torn dome
Wanna ask amr peeps for that. They put it forward
Or rather it was being discussed on their forums as it sims higher than ns
odd sedge
well apparently you gain 20k damage more overall, how do you calculate pandemic into this
gain ~5 more seconds so that should be 2 extra ticks
viscid sonnet
For Nightstalker 5 combo rupture in 7.1.5, the extra damage would be 150% AP * 24/2 * 1.3 * 50%(Nightstalker buff) = 1170% AP during 31.2 seconds.
Consider Blood of the Assassinated proc chance is 35%, the extra damage would be 1170% / ( 24 * 1.3 ) * ( 65% * 100% * ( 24 * 1.3 ) + 35% * ( 200% * 10 + 100% * ( 24 * 1.3 - 10 ))) = 1301.25 %
For Subterfuge Garrote single use, the extra damage would be 810% AP * 125% (Subterfuge buff) = 1012.5 % AP during 18 seconds.
For Subterfuge Garrote single use, the extra damage would be 810% AP / 18 * (2+18*1.3) * 125% (Subterfuge buff) = 1428.75 % AP during 25.4 seconds.
something i found
last paragraph is supposed to be double use i think
Pros:
The duration of Vendetta is 20 seconds, the short duration of Garrote would be another advantage.
Players can cast this "super" Garrote once as starter and cast again with Vanish. Indeed, you can cast a Nightstalker 5 combo rupture as starter, but not every time you have 5 combo before combat ( especially in raid ). What's more, the 24s duration is shorter that 31.2s.
Cons:
The second Garrote would cost another 45 energy.
The stack of Agonizing Poison would be lower when entering the combat.
pliant pagoda
I can't seem to find how to import each spec into SimulationCraft without opening WoW, switching specs, closing WoW, and reimporting from the armory. Is there a way to import all three spec profiles at once (or at least without restarting WoW)?
pliant pagoda
but what about importing the action lists?
pliant pagoda
(I did it the hard way and relogged until I had all three specs in with action lists.)
WHich fight style most closely resembles the majority of Nighthold, light movement?
thick flare
So I've just Simcrafted myself (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Burrkith/advanced) and it's telling me Crit ~= Mastery ~= Vers ~= Haste, am I just geared at the exact point where they all coincide or is something going a bit cooki, any ideas would be appreciated. Ty
exotic canyon
For the experts here
Im trying to see whats better, Insignia or Dreadlords Deciet
Dreadlord with full stacks deals around 600k-1M dmg every 1 minute, while with Insignia after 1 minute it usually deals around 1.2M dmg
So If i get another target into my FoK with full stacks every minute, the Cloak SHOULD do more dmg in the total picture
Yet, I hear most ppl say Insignia is better
Which leaves me in doubt, advice?
Stat whise, Claok is a small tad better aswell
prisma gate
cloak has a lot of opportunity cost since you have to use an inferior generator
cyan falcon
i believe there was an apl for DoS for Sub. Where would I be able to fine one?
merry cloud
@split sorrel I use that expression for subterfuge garrote but maybe in a wrong way. I use new line for vanish -
actions.cds+=/vanish,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&debuff.garrote.up&dot.garrote.refreshable&dot.garrote.pmultiplier=1&((spell_targets.fan_of_knives<=3&combo_points.deficit>=1+spell_targets.fan_of_knives)|(spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=4&combo_points.deficit>=4))
but in sequence I see garrote being used from stealth and then vanish at 12.655 seconds, when garrote is refreshable
viscid sonnet
shouldnt it with that line @merry cloud ?
i think you want dot.garrote.ticking instead of debuff.garrote.up also but idk if it matters
merry cloud
Well if I understood @split sorrel right then dot.garrote.pmultiplier=1 would be false for garrote from stealth which means vanish should not be casted unless that garrote ended at least
river kestrel
does anyone know how DoS only gets used with vendetta in the apl?
merry cloud
@river kestrel it't standard line for trinkets. Issue is submitted on github for DoS line
viscid sonnet
@merry cloud it seems very hard to get simc to gast garrote twice in a row
does it recognize that it doesnt go on cd from stealth?
graceful pulsar
so i have been playing around with subterfuge and NS. I seem to be doing a little higher ~ 5k more DPS with sub. Is that because of the garrote?
honest briar
are the simc sims for Frond "trustworthy" now?
bleak sky
no
honest briar
okay, so 880 DoS > 905 Frond?
bleak sky
It will be much more consistent
bleak sky
I'm trying to get simc to break stealth with garrote when subterfuge is enabled
actions.maintain=garrote,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&stealthed.rogue
I thought would work
alone the lines of nightstalker
cause I want it to maintain that garrote full tick
but I'm a simc apl nub so what am I doing wrong
toxic flower
simming takes into account the effects of items right? like how insignia does 30% additional damage to enemies infront of me?
silent shadow
in relation to simecraft what does "waiting" mean under time spent
vapid ridge
are the APLs for sin on the latest nightly build pretty good with the current game state?
bleak sky
Depends what you have
If you have mantle then no
they are ok but quite a bit isn't working
vapid ridge
I have DoS and KJ that I want to sim
I see on all of the guides 3T+ which is what I want to use to test KJ -- how do i do 3T+ using simc? is there a preset ?
regal agate
you can change the amount of enemys in the option menue
maiden cargo
wich is the most accurate sim these days?
wind otter
@bleak sky you have to remember its a "priority list" if you just change the garrote line, you won't get it to use the stealthed garrote - you can try put the stealthed version in the cooldowns list
but what you need to keep in mind is to force vanish to wait for the garrote cd
jovial kraken
I have soem issues with my APL, anybody knows whats going on? My opener says to use Draught of Souls straight after Garrote?
wind otter
try this actions.cds+=/use_item,name=draught_of_souls,if=equipped.140808&energy.deficit>=80&(talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>3|!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled) @jovial kraken
jovial kraken
Kiyal, where do i type this?
wind otter
after you've imported through the armory
you have the apl printed
then you replace the DoS line with the above
jovial kraken
can u jump into voice channel 2?
robust compass
i have a 12.7 crit 11.72 mastery stat weight does that make sense
currently 121%mastery 29% crit
wind otter
spec/talents?
robust compass
1133111
rain ice
how do i change food that i use
robust compass
just doesn't seem right, i've done nothing but hunt mastery now it's telling me crit is that much better lol
wanton shell
@robust compass ilvl?
robust compass
894
the reason i am concerned is because i need to put two new gems in and don't know if i should go mastery or crit
wanton shell
you should follow the sim. however if you feel its wrong you can check results on dummies with both items. i have the same issue anything that takes me under 28 % crit makes crit go over my mastery
but i have 31% crit and 154 % mast
robust compass
ilvl?
wanton shell
can go as low as 26 crit and 170 mast
but i dont
cause it sims lower
899
u prolly have too much haste on your gear tbh
wanton shell
you cant do anythign about wrist-boots-ring
if it has haste it has haste
as i said keep simming ebvery upgrade and try different equips
and try to take off the non chest tier piece
when u get another one
robust compass
yea i'm trying for them legs
to replace the shoulders atleast
i also have 7% versatility
wispy river
anyone know where i can get an APL that sims DoS propperly?
Using the default APL, 880 Urn with a socket is simming for less than 880 DoS. Just don't know where to find the propper APL for DoS or if the Urn truly is better.
merry cloud
@wispy river I use this one actions.cds+=/use_item,slot=trinket1,if=!debuff.kingsbane.up&energy.time_to_max>3
but I don't have mantle so it's not optimized for that case
odd sedge
equal lvl urn isnt far off, but dos should be better if played well, depends on your spec too
raw agate
@merry cloud is there a reason why you'd want to use DoS during kinsgbane? I
merry cloud
I want to use it outside
at least in simc
!debuff.kingsbane.up means there is no debuff
raw agate
oh, i missed the ! at !=
modern aurora
@merry cloud there is no need to use it outside of kingsbane because you still AA and if you got a fresh SoT then everything is ok
im bad at this
actions.cds+=/use_item,slot=trinket2,if=buff.master_assassins_initiative_aura.remains=3&debuff.surge_of_toxins.up&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains=3
why doesn't this work?
exotic orchid
dont need 2 sot conditions
modern aurora
ok yeah im really bad at this thanks @exotic orchid
im trying to optimize weak's apl for dos but the kingsbane damage seems retardedly high
exotic orchid
I think you also need to consider how much you want to wait for vanish
keen ledge
Epic, in that string shouldn't it be >=3, and not =3?
Because that means it'd only use it when there's exactly 3 seconds left, or?
bleak sky
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=draught_of_souls,if=equipped.140808&energy.deficit>=80&(talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>3|!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled)
Just add that for DoS usage
it works but it's unoptimized
it's good enough
I'm still trying to get subterfuge to work properly on weak's apl
garrote
modern aurora
add &buff.master_assassins_initiative_aura.remains<=3 and should be gucci i guess
keen ledge
Lesser Than, Or Equal to 3?
modern aurora
it should be equal but equal doesn't work
there still some optimizations to be made in this apl for example it uses garrote badly if you run subterfuge
wispy river
So I tried it with about every combination people have posted but 880 Urn with a socket always beats out an 880 DoS. So I guess Urn really is just better in my case?
The closest sims had Urn 10k dps above DoS.
modern aurora
???
ok that's a normal urn but 150 mastery aren't 12k dps or am i missing something here
keen ledge
With Mantle, Delay DoS for Vanish if you're under 33% crit
According to math I've done
modern aurora
y that's what i worked out with some napkin math too
bleak sky
That is something I want to work on but it's lower on my priority list
wispy river
I should say that I have boots and bracers, is DoS only good if you have mantle?
bleak sky
once I get garrote subterfuge figured out I will do that
modern aurora
DoS is still bis
exotic orchid
btw I think you should use buff.master_assassins_initiative. without _aura here
the one with aura should be for the infinite buff you get when you are stealthed
maybe I'm wrong tho
wispy river
I figured it out, thank you for the help everyone, 880 DoS is now simming 7k dps higher than 880 Urn w/ socket.
exotic orchid
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=draught_of_souls,if=equipped.140808&(talent.agonizing_poison.enabled&debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>=3|!talent.agonizing_poison.enabled)&energy.deficit>=80&((equipped.144236&buff.master_assassins_initiative.remains>=3|cooldown.vanish.remains>=10)|!equipped.144236)
something like that
fast sentinel
thanks
lament citrus
anyone around who knows if sub apl has been some more optimized regarding anticipation use?
bleak sky
Shaddix thanks for that
it's an improvement over old DoS usage
I wanted to play around with adding a vanish conditional
rich temple
DoS scales on AP but not with vendetta right?
dreamy tartan
Anyone here know if there's an easy way to sim all combos of ~6 trinkets/relics/rings? I ran into a website a while back that did it and I could paste it in
vapid ridge
where do i paste that string to add that to my sim?
viscid sonnet
@vapid ridge youve gotta start with an armory import of your char
then simcraft will import the default APL as well
and you can plop that string in under actions.cds
carmine leaf
13.02 sim build reliable?
wind otter
@dreamy tartan try the ingame addon simPermut
pure sluice
@split sorrel , does versa scale better than mastery? and does sim over values mastery ?
lunar trout
@dreamy tartan If you find that website be sure to fire the link in here! The addons do a good job of quickly creating strings for items you own, put not for items that you don't.
https://raidbots.com/simbot Can handle relics easier I believe.
split sorrel
@pure sluice How can I answer this ?
No spec, no profile, nothing. I'm not a magician :/
pure sluice
talking about your own profile. I simmed you and it says mastery > versa for me 😛
but u are going all in versa
weak blaze
I guarantee its because she (he?) got just enough vers to make mastery better
bleak sky
@pure sluice sim yourself....
Maybe we can help if you gave us an armory
if you have a very niche build/gear
But ask this in general
pure sluice
@bleak sky . here is the link to my armory http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/kazzak/Crit/advanced
!pinned
vapid ridge
@viscid sonnet so the armory import is working now? I usually just type /simc in game and copy that text into the simulate tab. Then click simulate.
lunar trout
So I'm assuming something has went awry with my sims lol 😂
reef canyon
@split sorrel Just got a report from @neon sonnet That there was a mastery bug in SimC for outlaw. I don't know the details, but st. man can fill you in. Wondering if there is a bug or not, and then we'll compare back to AMR. AMR has been matching SimC really well for outlaw, so if there's somethign wrong in SimC, we'll want to double check AMR too.
neon sonnet
Could be potentially an old bug. A guildie shared sims where with each point of mastery added, DPS dropped. With 20k increased mastery you lost thousands of DPS and the value of mastery plummuted into negative values I believe.
I'll ask specifics when he hops on.
split sorrel
was it related to multi targets sims ?
thick dawn
@dreamy tartan try https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/257796-simctrinketcomparison
neon sonnet
Yes, it was related to multi-target sims
Specifically only sims where blade flurry was activated, though it's a relatively old bug so I'd put my money on it already being fixed; I'd run the sim myself to confirm but I've got ~45 minutes of sims queued up
flat herald
the bug has been mentioned here before, like a month or so ago, not sure what came of it tho
@round canyon was the person that i remember told us
solemn plaza
Quick question guys, DS sims higher than Anticipation for me atm, is the Finality bug being calculated by simcraft properly, already? Or do I 'manually' take that into account after the sim?
dreamy tartan
@thick dawn Thanks! I did stumble upon that addon. There's also one for jewelry. I was hoping for something more generic so I can use it for my relics. I'll see if I can find that website again and post it here
dreamy tartan
For those who asked, I found the website! https://dheighton.github.io/simc-trinket-compare/trinkets.html. Looks like it's very similar to the addon so I'll give the addon a try as well. Just didn't want to leave people hanging that wanted the link.
Unfortunately not sure if either will do relics so the search for that continues... I horde gear >< Need to DE stuff
*hoard >.>
round canyon
The mastery bug in SIMC was already fixed a while back.
basically if run through triggered main guache it was having its BF copy damage replaced with the main guache damage
so as you got more mastery this happened more frequently massively lowering aoe dps in the sim
strong rune
this is accurate ^
split sorrel
Schedule issue yes
reef canyon
@neon sonnet There isn't a bug in SimC with mastery any more, was fixed a while back. AMR and SimC match very closely on all of our outlaw tests, btw.
reef canyon
Now I'm following up with @round canyon on the APL changes he improved on. My tests show they are not DPS increases, so I'm working through with him to find out if he had particular settings or gear to make them do more dmg.
cerulean junco
@reef canyon hey, may i ask why you value subterfuge over nightstalker?
cobalt spear
is shadowcraft's stats weight accurate ? every top rogue profile i plugged in shows versatility is most valuable but none have vers enchanted / gemmed
gaunt pelican
Afaik shadowcraft is not very accurate
cobalt spear
was told the dps numbers on shadowcraft is not accurate but the stats weights are very accurate .. hmm
tidal surge
@round canyon I've had a similar bug with sin a couple of days ago, in multitarget it was giving me negative stat values for Haste
strong gorge
I bet simcraft also (bar specific legendaries) show Vers as top stat for many players. We have very low vers on our gear as a base and versatility is really strong when you don't haev a lot
odd sedge
Trying to change APL to swap to deadly poison at 30% boss hp, can anyone help with this?
or has anyone tried that in combination with zoldycks, and what results did they get
actions.precombat+=/apply_poison this is the only mention to poisons i find and it doesnt even name the poison?
split sorrel
you can specify it
with name=
without it auto choose ago or deadly
I think tho
not 100% sure
odd sedge
ok, what can i use for <30% boss hp? in actions maintain i guess?
merry cloud
I would put it before any actions. If boss hp below 30% and deadly is not applied, apply that poison
Not sure if following exists -buff.deadly_poison.up
odd sedge
actions.cds=apply_poison,name=deadly_poison,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=30 would this work?
how do i remove the bloodlust part
merry cloud
Target time to die is not what you want
odd sedge
i can only find options to set enemy health percentage from the start of fight
enemy_fixed_health_percentage=20
split sorrel
target.health.pct yeah
merry cloud
Wiki gives target.health.pct
split sorrel
yes it's target.health.pct
split sorrel
actions.cds=apply_poison,name=deadly_poison,if=target.health.pct<=30
yes
you can put it in actions+=/ instead of cds sublist tho
won't change much tho
merry cloud
Wouldn't you apply it over and over again?
merry cloud
Do you need &!buff.deadly_poison.up?
odd sedge
how do i add that?
odd sedge
actions.cds=apply_poison,name=deadly_poison,if=target.health.pct<=30,&!buff.deadly_poison.up
just with a comma?
merry cloud
Without comma
& is a logical conjunction
So you say if boss has under 30% hp and I don't have deadly poison buff
So it would be applied once
At least that is my logic behind it
humble tendon
Do DoS sim correctly ? My 875 urn sims higher than my 880 DoS.
odd sedge
that line doesnt work
actions.maintain=apply_poison,name=deadly_poison,if=target.health.pct<=30&!buff.deadly_poison.up
merry cloud
Error?
odd sedge
Wunju apply_poison: Unable to parse options str 'name=deadly_poison,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=30': apply_poison: Unexpected parameter 'name'.
Simulation has been canceled during player setup! (thread=0)
Wunju apply_poison: Unable to parse options str 'name=deadly_poison,if=target.health.pct<=30&!buff.deadly_poison.up': apply_poison: Unexpected parameter
i put it in actions.maintain
merry cloud
It doesn't know what apply_poison means
odd sedge
but its at the start in actions pre combat
merry cloud
Or rather name
Parameter name doesn't exist for apply_poison? @split sorrel
Try to remove if
And see if it works
odd sedge
Wunju apply_poison: Unable to parse options str 'name=deadly_poison,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=30': apply_poison: Unexpected parameter 'name'.
Simulation has been canceled during player setup! (thread=0)
i removed the deadly_poison part
just apply poison
split sorrel
hmmm
I changed it some time ago
will have to check the module
do
,lethal=deadly
instead of name
supports lethal and nonlethal option
supports deadly wound agozining & crippling leeching
so
odd sedge
actions.maintain=apply_poison,,lethal=deadly,if=target.health.pct<=30&!buff.lethal=deadly.up
like this?
split sorrel
actions+=/apply_poison,lethal=deadly,if=target.health.pct<=30,&!buff.deadly_poison.up
yes without ur double ,,
hmm, do that :
odd sedge
Wunju apply_poison: Unable to parse options str 'lethal=deadly,if=target.health.pct<=30,&!buff.deadly_poison.up': apply_poison: Unexpected parameter '&!buff.deadly_poison.up'. Expected format: name=value
Simulation has been canceled during player setup! (thread=0)
split sorrel
actions+=/call_action_list,name=cds```because of ur ","
I changed it
change the call_action_list of cds by what I posted
my question is, why do u do that ?
exsg build with wound ?
odd sedge
no, AP but with zoldycks, interested in the result
do i just copy those 2 lines in actions then?
split sorrel
y
odd sedge
Player Wunju action apply_poison : Unable to decode expression function 'buff.deadly_poison.up'
Wunju-apply_poison: Unable to build expression tree from target.health.pct<=30&!buff.deadly_poison.up
Simulation has been canceled during player setup! (thread=0)
Player Wunju action apply_poison : Unable to decode expression function 'buff.deadly_poison.up'
Wunju-apply_poison: Unable to build expression tree from target.health.pct<=30&!buff.deadly_poison.up
split sorrel
aha
deadly_poison buff is no longer created
so you can't have it from APL
also I'm not sure the poison cast is implemented into simc
I would have to change it
odd sedge
i see
split sorrel
open an issue
so I have some tracks
I'll forgot else
I have to fix a bunch of assa ones
odd sedge
can you link me where to do that
split sorrel
odd sedge
do i have to mention you or something?
split sorrel
post the lines I put above with the error, so I remember that it's due to the buff
and what you wanted to achieve
so I won't forget it's to change poison mid-fight so I'll check the cast
odd sedge
ok thanks
split sorrel
😃
odd sedge
done
spiral bluff
@odd sedge I was actually thinking the same thing earlier today. Very curious about the results!
grizzled path
can anyone help me with Unable to open output file 'C:/Program Files (x86)/simc-715-02-win64\simc_report.txt' ? everytime I sim my character, get this error.
lusty hazel
are there block comments in simcraft, or just the single line #?
grizzled path
in the error message? or when i past in the import?
dull geyser
How do I check which relic will do the most damage? I've got a 870ilvl relic which reduces cloak of shadow cooldown, and a 5ilvl lower one that increases crit chance of Mutilate.
Balanced Blades isn't simmed on roguedpsguide so...
heavy moon
@dull geyser mut crit chance will be better
dull geyser
It would be, wouldnt it? Thanks
coral robin
Guys whats the best racial for assas with aconazing build ?
sand raft
Does anyone have the Draught APL edit code handy?
eternal patio
^Need this aswell
iron obsidian
actions.cds+=/use_item,slot=trinket1,if=debuff.agonizing_poison.stack=5&debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains>3&energy.deficit>=85
I don't take credit for it, it was posted here before. Don't know how optimized it is either.
sand raft
seems to do what I needed it to do at least
maiden cargo
looks good to me
sand raft
Thanks
maiden cargo
i would add !debuff.vendetta.up
cause you generally dont wannt use it during vendetta
actually hmm i suppose its ok at the tailend of vendetta
iron obsidian
That makes sense. probably !debuff.vendetta.remains < 2?
sand raft
I'd say more like 4 so you have the full cast in there
iron obsidian
oops > 2
sand raft
or >2 does the same thing ya
iron obsidian
Cause Vendetta doesn't effect it, and I think the cast time is 2 seconds
deft maple
3 seconds
You use it early as you can to use all energy remaining before vandetta falls off, cause you want to make sure you get maxiumum casts with it
all depends on the fight tbh to how anal you have to be with timing
iron obsidian
!debuff.vendetta.remains > 3
barren breach
i'm curious, does simc accurately reflect the advantage of using 3 MA relics + cof by lining up kingsbane and vendetta?
deft maple
If you have Mantle, it changes everything with it thou
sand raft
adding the vendetta line to DoS changes very little in Simc anyway
deft maple
yeah becaues vendetta doesn't affect it
sand raft
ya. It did actually show as a slight increase with the line in there
deft maple
long as you don't pool energy and don't use it during vandetta it won't make any difference
deft maple
don't think vandetta affects auto attack
deft maple
ahh yeah your right
i mean honestly it 100% boils down to fitting max casts of DoS into the fight window
maiden cargo
you autoattack during DoS
deft maple
well that solves that lol
sand raft
yep. frozen is right. 3 seconds of combat dummy proved that loll
deft maple
i wouldn't clip it at the end thou, cause you have potential energy there that you are wasting that could have gone to a mutilate with vand. up
sand raft
ya. but It also depends if those few seconds could cost you another cast of DoS
deft maple
yeah i mean that obviously trumps everything
sand raft
though judging the fight to that degree is basically impossible
deft maple
yup, got to just guestimate
most of the time you can get within 1 cast thou
if the fight is usually 6 minutes and a few seconds, you can probably only count on 3
sand raft
ya judging to 30 seconds or so is reasonable....but below 15 seconds is kind of hard to judge.
I wish Satyr wasn't good. I really don't like it that much as the one "interesting" enchant.
deft maple
i mean honestly you have plenty of vand. time to use your full bar, then use it
then expend the pooled energy
so you really don't have to think about vandetta usage with it
this probably is getting to be too big a discussion for this channel 😃
hard kettle
I am getting a 15k dps difference simming using the draught apl between DoS 895 and a mythic 905 Fond. Does that seem reasonable? I know fond is rng and that if fond can manage to do around 5% the raw agi on it makes up for the raw dmg from draught
deft maple
probably has alot to do with the length of your sim
sand raft
From what I have read Frond becomes BiS if you can get a double proc. But under normal circumstances it is far inverior
deft maple
yeah no thanks rng 😛
sand raft
Ya I will take non rng any day
Considering using 875 urn over my 890 foci.
sims within 1k dps of eachother. And Urn has 0 rng
plus my master even with urn is only 128%...............................
hard kettle
a double proc wouldnt be all that much dmg off the top of my head, id have to check but i would guess 2 procs are around 5mil dmg at most on a 6 min fight and i think you need to get to 10mil or so to make up for the 20m odd dmg draught gets you
hard kettle
im not sure that it is
CoF seems more broken given how you can get up another vendetta and line shit up
maiden cargo
I have an 890 socketed urn and a 890 frond
in my sims, the mastery from my urn is worth ~3% dmg
hard kettle
i think the raw dmg from draught is sexy but the raw agi from other trinkets while less blatant just means more
maiden cargo
thus if frond does >3% dmg it will beat urn
hard kettle
2k agi is a fuck tonne of dps
sand raft
ya for me the 875 urn vs 890 Elemental foci are within 1k dps....so flat mastery is pretty valuable
hard kettle
i really with they would just make the fond more consistent
sand raft
And I don't have 4 pc yet, so I am sure the scaling only gets better with that.
hard kettle
im just looking at logs and if u get even decent luck with fond, it just makes up for the dmg on the draught
ok you were right, im getting a higher sim without CoF. if i go with DoS and Fond it sims pretty high
sand raft
Dont you need frond to sim ~9% of overall DPS for it to be comparable tho? Most rogues are sitting at 8-9% from DoS right?
hard kettle
no sir
from a raw numbers perspective DoS does 18mil or so on krosus.
using the sim to add or minus 2000agi, leads to a swing of 37k dps
so essentially, u take 37k times say 360 is like 13mil dmg.
sand raft
I think maybe you are missing the value of the haste. It's not 0.
hard kettle
its .4
u adjust for that, its like 7k
so napkin as fuck math, if the fond can do like 8mil
it beats dos
i am not in anyway claiming that is accurate math, but i do hope someone can tackle that issue
sand raft
Ya I think the arguement has always been the consistancy of DoS.
hard kettle
to see what the break or tipping point is
hard kettle
i dont think i am
deft maple
so in your napkin math your talkin 18k
hard kettle
sand raft
It will depend heavily on his gear turismon
hard kettle
let me minus 1000haste on the sim rq
sand raft
But ya they posted an updated link fro trinkets earlier